Episode 1 - All or Nothing

Hey, it's fifty cent and I'm Charlie Webster, host of Surviving l Chapo, the Twins who brought down a drug lord. Make sure you listen to the catch up so you're up to date with what happened in season one.

If you haven't listened to season one with you been, go back and listen.

The story is chronological and follows on from season two. I can't wait to take you on the second part of this ride. We're going to jump straight in where we left off.

And when I saw the cards and like all the agents in marshals.

Just like staring at us.

I think it was the first time I ever felt like, holy shit, I'm.

Not just a drug dealer right.

My whole time, even though like you might hear me say it now, like oh, that was the biggest drug deer.

I had no idea that I was. To me, I was just telling.

Drugs when you look at it from on the outskirts, because just in perspective, you can't even fathom what that's.

That's like I was just doing what they did. Why are they here?

Like you know what I mean, Like it's just us like but it was like reality. It was hard to like take all that in it and not having a chance to deal with your emotional it was really difficult.

This is Surviving our chapter It's Twins who Brought Down a Trouble Old season two.

It's fifteen, Charlie with you again.

Welcome back to Surviving ol chop or The Twins who brought Down the Drug Law Season two. After a twenty year long career in the drug trade, the Flores twins Peter and Jay decided it was time to turn their lives around.

But it wasn't going to come easy.

This is real. They were deep into the cartel. Old Chopol was like family today. They were caught between the cartel on one side and the actual family or another. Getting out of the life meant that huge betrayal to everything they'd ever known and turning against the man who was the only reason they were both still alive in the first place. It was Chopo that stopped peace execution and who kept the entire family safe.

It took eight months of secret recordings working with the US government to bring Chapeo down by recording him on a wire tap. Pete and Jay turned over the recording to the government and handed themselves in ready to take the next step in turning their life around.

We left you in season one with Pete and j shackle and landing in the US to a load the police and federal agents.

While the brothers were on their way out of Mexico on a US government private jet, their wives and the rest of the family had to make their own way out of the country. Viv, Val, Pete and J's brother Armando, the twins, mother and father, and all the children were left to drive eight hours through enemy territory, across the US border and into relative safety. Just a reminder that we're not going to identify which brother is speaking each time, but I'm sure by now you've got to know them.

Jay is a little lighter and happy go lucky.

Heat tends to be serious and more of a realist. Jay is married to Val and at this point they have two boys, one just a newborn baby. Heat is married to Viv. They also have a newborn baby, a girl.

It was a big deal when we came back, like they had all kinds of marshals and swat team.

To bombard as questions.

There's a couple of people talking and a lot of faces, and I seen his man. He's kind of tall. He has a briefcase and I automatically ain't know, like, oh,

Hell no, we're not doing that. We're not doing that. Everyone looked like what.

And I remember my turning with like, hold on, hold on, I need to speak to my clients. I need to fink my clients in private, Like nah, that's the post you like, because I felt like we just cooperated for nothing, like we have nothing, like where's our end?

Just reis my life?

I'm here by the bras of God, like, but now where's like you're asking me corporated with Where's like? What was my benefit?

Like?

What am I getting? You're asking me to now turn on my customers.

As far as the twins were concerned, the deal was to get El Chapo on tape, serve a few years in prison, and be free to start a completely new life. All their conversations with the government so far have been purely focused on El Chapo, but the government had other ideas. J and P would now have to turn in everybody they've ever dealt with, workers, customers, and even their friends if they were ever going to have any chance at freedom.

The prosecutor gets on the phone and the other prosecutors just looking at something basically says, guys, to work.

It's gonna be all or nothing. You don't get to the side.

How did that make you feel?

I felt like that hurt, that felt trapped.

Like I felt stupid for sure, And at that moment, that's how I felt like what I was angry?

I just.

I mean, I just said it was that moment it was those like those initial moments where I felt like I was angry to use a turn off. I felt like it was a trap to me and I felt like I hadn't got nothing in return and.

To them, and they're like, oh, you're a diructed what you respect. You're getting a chance.

And to me, I'm like, I'm risking my life every day forgiving you what you asked me for.

You didn't ask for that.

You said that you wanted this, We offered, We put everything on the table, and that's what you wanted. And that's not just trait works. So basically he said, listen, it's all or nothing. If you guys want to decided, you would change your mind and you want to spend the rest of your life in prison for all your customers are gonna end up cooperating against you anyway, like they are. Now that's up to you, you guys think about it. And when he said that, was like, kind I had a point there, you know.

Like.

I do remember asking could we do anything about this? And he's like, you don't get to pick and choose. Chase doesn't work that way. Now you go do the right thing. Remember what got your hair?

You don't put no one in front of your family, and he was right.

I didn't want to be the responsible person for that, like I guess, you know, like I didn't wanna be responsible for everyone's life changing.

I just wanna be responsible for my life changing, right like. And I think that it's just it was a lot, you know what I mean?

That night they wanted to do uh what you call control deliveries, so you'd call, you know, a call a customer and tell ma'mas and go kill 'em drugs and they're arrest 'em. But there was too much to do in them a few hours, like to be sitting there and it was getting lad to finding they they we made a couple of calls and that was her fault for them to be sitting in front of you, like here, make the call, call this person and they're sitting in

So it could be arrested.

M H.

How did that feel?

It's like.

It's gonna be one of those define moments a team in my life where you know, there was really high highs and really low loads we made up eat a few of those calls, and it was getting late in the night and they decided that we were.

Gonna end there. The team remember Belt, like, I just can't believe just what we did.

The first off was Kenosha County Jail in Wisconsin and a change in identity for protection, they could no longer use or be referred to by their real names.

It took us to a county jail, to Kenosha County Jail, and that's when reality was and start standing in a little bit. Took us and uh, they changed their name, they changed their name, and they gave us the last name for Maris. My name was gonna be Mark Ramers and Peter was Quant Rumors. And in Kenosha there's a federally like a federal holdover, and uh, this is a

So they go down the l down the line.

So I remember just observing, like I'm asking questions.

People were like, oh, where are you from? You know, asking those questions.

I'm gonna guess that some of them are cooperator as well, cause they're they're there, and it looks like they've been there for a long time too, cause they're settled in in.

This ugly place.

The doors steel wire crisscross kind of a through their seat through so and like you get privacy. They can see right through your and it's just old. Everything's old.

And yes, the door on the shut it's so wired.

It's like a you know, it has a like almost like a gate on it stealav.

And they it's separated. So they put my brother in one.

It's one bad one bunk and they put my brother in one. They put me in the other. I remember me and brother's like like Jay, like don't go to sleep. So we uh the doors like here, and I basically just sat down on the door and.

He sat down in the door. So you lean against it against the door and we're just talking. We don't have to talk a lot because you know, it's.

Open, you're right next to each of them, and just.

I remember it.

Just I was like, what did we do? And she's like, you know, wondering about our family. That's gonna be like the beginning of the stress of wondering.

Are they okay? I have the kids, okay, I wonder what they're doing.

I want you know, I think anybody in prison always thinks about those things at this very moment, you know.

And we didn't sleep. They bring breakfast like a fight during in the morning. It was terrible. It was like rits and who knows what we we didn't need.

I don't think me and my brother didn't eat, probably for the next five days, and.

We would drink like water something or juice.

And I probably lost those first two weeks, probably lost thirty pounds.

After a brief stay in Kenosha, Pete and Jay, now under a different alias, were moved to the Metropolitan Correctional Center in Chicago, sixty two miles away.

The team came first, and you know, they took us to Chicago. It was a caravan, like a big caravan of Marshalls. That's gonna be the normal from that point. And they take me to together what you just.

It's me and my brother.

Yeah, together, we're like a a special hold where we have a three men hold. So it said one lieutenant and two officers every time we get moved, so that mean that there's me and my brother. So at first it was hard because they needed two lieutenants, you know, four officers, and we're talking on a place that doesn't have that many guards. So it didn't take long before we couldn't start being o paining their asses. They take us to use the training's office, put us in a

We meet Tim Janelli.

The twins were now face to face with the government team behind the l Chapo case, the people who would ultimately decide the twins' future. Sam Janelle was the first agent Pete and Jay ever spoke to. If you remember, it was back in that sixteen person shower that they had in Mexico. Janelle worked alongside Eric Durante, the DA's special agent assigned to the case, who had also been

Shake Shaft was the lead prosecutor.

He first met Pete in that secret hotel room meeting back in Mexico.

That started everything.

They're my attorneys there, they need us, probably talked for twenty minutes and then they're like, we need you to continue on with this corporation.

We started working.

And going into a grand jury to in day chapel that.

Day, and me and my brother got it.

That's what they want from us, Like, that was our bargaining to us, and that's.

The first thing that they want. Can they basically.

You know when they took our phones from us, what happened, whether people were calling their phone and the ages are there sending back messages pretending to be yeah, like basically like oh listen, so and so been calling.

He said he needs twenty five keys.

Cooperating isn't what you might expect. It doesn't stop happening just because you go to prison. At this point, the twins had no idea that this would carry on for years, and so the US government could put El Chapo behind bars.

For the first eight months, it.

Was all day, every single day, calling and setting up their customers and friends.

I do feel responsible for like making decisions for a lot of people, like not just my family, I made a decision for a lot of people that went to jail.

How many people went to jail because of what you did, Like how many roughly.

I want to sit in totally over one hundred people for sure.

When they were finished for the day, they would head back in a big convoy to mcc Chicago. MCC Chicago is not what you might think a normal prison looks like. It's a skyscraper in the middle of the city. It's one big triangle designed that way to be easier to keep an eye on everyone. The roof of the giant triangle is used as the recreation yard. While you're shooting hoops, you can kind of look out on the amazing views of downtown Chicago. It's used as a holding prison for

All the other prisoners.

They were a part of the WITSEC program, basically in prison witness protection, which meant they had to be kept in the SHU special housing unit known as the Shoe.

The shoe is a bit like solitary confinement.

Because they were helping the government, Pete and j were given a few special privileges. They were allowed to be together in the shoe.

Walking to the shore, I was like, oh, of shit, like this is this is prison?

Like what.

There's like a little gay indigal bunch of self nor where it's like just hardway inter is a bunch of cells, these weird it's like a triangle and they have two sides and they take us to a back cell. It's two bucks and like it's ugly dirty, you know, paint chripping. It's so fucking cold.

You know.

It was the first time. I think I really like took it in, like all the other things. So much going on. I remember they close chuckhold and we remember stands the orange.

We just like look at each other. They're in shit in there, like yo, what the fuck do we do now?

We're getting anxious, like no communication. We haven't talked to our family. I think our Lord told they're okay. They've been calling or something like that, but that wasn't good enough for us, Like, okay, what it was this I wanna tell you, like this torture in us, like we f say, if we draws of bones or withdraws of all are what we were used to for others. You're just now we're sitting in a fucking town. They were nothing in there.

The life of a drug dealer is twenty four to seven.

And if you remember, Pete and j had fifty phones each constantly ringing. They were heavily involved in the day to day running of the business and made sure they never missed a phone call.

You know, it's scary to hear phones ringing when they're not ringing, could you hear? Yeah, I think, And you know how messed up your brain.

Getting in the quiet of a prison cell.

Pete was still hearing phones ringing inside his head.

The first night was like terrible, and it was a while before we even saw a guard, I think, and they'll come just looking and we're just like sitting there like like this fucking place is nasty. It was hard that first nights, talking about it is freezing. We have no blanket, we have nothing, you know, we have like a T shirt on, like a small T shirt and just a jump shore and we're freezing. I'm talking about like shaky. It has to be like forty degrees and

Roaches or where they came early for us.

The next day turned six, there's the marshals come for us, and they.

Put it like you know, we go through the process.

It will be like quite a few marshals and they'll they'll pick us up in like a bult of cud, take us down the back to the federal building.

And that was kind of became a routine.

So you basically we're in the shoe and then they transported you down the road to the federal building to.

The federal building where we'd go and they start off like at a conference room or you know, an office and then they take you back to.

Yeah, it will bring the laptop for us to like review whatever document, whatever the case is, and you have the battup.

Then they end up starting to stop something. I was like doing something else to use to try allegiance I have a look. I've seen that they had windows open in the computer and I hit the window.

You don't want me to say that story? What's woman?

Don't forget Pete and j haven't seen each other much since they were in prison together, so there's occasionally some brotherly tension in the room. Some of this stuff is being spoken about between them for the very first time. It's Jay's wife file that you can hear in the background.

I mean, you could story what I was saying. You went to the funding agents fucking for pure and hit window. Legion.

You don't want to go be like, oh, you're manipulating the age you said in this fucking interview.

Don't say that, but.

Say a word.

Computer I did.

It's not for you to go through that's the crime. Come on, man, Yeah, it's part of the story. Is that seeing that parts not important? Okay, I'm just saying that. You don't want to open a cain of words over it.

So yeah, you really were saying here talking about tons of drugs and that's gonna be all that's the issue.

Oh yeah, hold on, let's go viborated that on.

Tell us what you saw.

You can open up issue part issue just one day you're going to a federal government ages for Windows computerity that you're staking around it.

You could have changed information about something not but before it doesn't sit well, like I don't know you understand, I just chilling, just said, did.

You basically see all the all the it's just information where it would tasty.

It sounds like when you've been no it was your.

Personal Please, they no right to a personal feeling, saying now you they had personal themes that they will be writing messages to each other email emails and saying he's fucking insulting.

Yeah, if he's saying the agent and they're prosecute.

The brothers didn't want to go into any more detail on the record, so I stopped the tape and we took a short break. We picked up the story with the twins back in the conference room cooperating with the agents in Chicago.

It was the second day when when we had like a break.

I remember the use attorney he said, so, I know, guys, like you know, up to this point, you know, you guys seemed like you guys are all right guys, and you know, over the time we've been talking a lot and being familiar with each other like you could.

Feel it, but not everyone in this office feels that way.

And I was like, huh, you're gonna, you know, we're gonna introduce you to some agents that I don't really like. You guys, so you know, just be patient and just like you know, they might be a little bit hard.

And I remember that's when I first started.

Just like.

Hard what.

Basically giving me a warning like they might not be nice. I'm get a ship, it's already bothered me.

Here comes six.

Seven ages walking in there, and I could see that they're they don't seem cool, they don't seem nice, I could see. And I guess they were mad at the case because they were people that were, you know, the time when I was cooperating, they're you know, they're doing investigation.

They felt like it should have been their case.

And you know, different ages got the case.

I understand.

I said, you guys have been like after us for a long time, right, kind of made a joke out of there, and now we're here, right, so I know you guys have like you guys could be upset, but you guys, you know, for a.

Long time, you know, we were winning, but now you got us.

You won we're here, We're here, We're gonna help you in you know, however we could help you. We're going to help you and just leave any personal shites to the side or whatever. They kind of just nodded their head in and then that's when I think we spoke up by said I'm going to help you guys.

And now that we are just well, am I going to ask for one deep?

Like?

What's that? I said? Saoul Rodriguez?

Yes, that Saul, remember the one that kidnapped Pete in Chicago, Pete's first kidnapping. Saoul Rodriguez pretended to be a cop and took Pete into a basement where the floor was covered with plastic and there was that random parrot.

When they just smiled, So roduis kidnapped? You kidnapped my brother.

At the time, the brothers didn't retaliate against Seoul for kidnapping Pete, but they were finally able to get their revenge. Saul was one person they were more than happy to turn into the government.

And he has a file on his hand and he just started freaking up pictures and my brother was able to identify everyone in the pictures, and that kind of just like I think can change their views a little bit. But it's gonna be like, this is gonna be a routine, you know, it's gonna go on for the next seven months.

So for seven months you did that. What was it like?

It wasn't easy.

We had up and downs, you know, you know, and every day it was like it was just a reminder of like we're doing this, Like why are we doing this? How did we get here? And there was a lot of questions about our future every day probably and everything going on with our families. Don't forget they're picked up and you had to start all over and all these things going on.

The tearful goodbye back in Mexico was the last time Pete and j had seen their families. All they knew was that they'd crossed the border into the US safely. While Pete and j were sat in a conference room in Chicago, Val and Pete's wife viv were stranded at the border with the rest of the family.

They didn't know where their husbands were being held.

The responsibility of what to do next and where to go fell on VAL's shoulders.

We stood there hours at the border. Hours.

It was already morning time.

It's like, where are we going?

Were going to Chicago, and I'm like, we're just gonna keep going. So she just looked like and it was just like emotionally drained. She looked exhausted, she looked tired. And I was like, we're just we're not gonna stop work and keep going. And then we kept driving, and I remember we hit I think it was San Antonio and San Antonio in Texas. Yeah, we hit San Antonio. Now our phones don't work because all of our phones are from Mexico and there's no phone service. And I

Where's J M P.

They're like, we don't know. I'm like, where are they take Where are they taking it? I'm assuming they're gonna come either to Milwaukee or to Chicago. And I'm like, so what do I do if I go to Chicago? And he's like, I don't think it's a good idea that you guys come. And I'm like, if that's where they're taking a husband, that's where we're going. He's like, I don't think you guys should be nowhere near Chicago. But I'm like, I'm sorry, but that's exactly where we're going.

That's why you knew as well, right.

Yeah, it's I mean, we didn't have a plan. We didn't know what where to go, or we didn't even think about, like what do we do when we need back to go? We weren't ready to go, so I got in the cars and we'd throw straight there.

We don't stop.

When we were in Chicago, we went straight to a hotel called the Attorney, and then a few agents from Witness Protection came out to speak to me and Fez and basically told us that they wanted our family to go into the program and that we wouldn't be able to speak to our husbands until their release.

Whenever that was released from prison.

Yeah, so we could have been talking at that point. You've got no idea exactly.

When the twins turned themselves into the US authorities.

No one had any idea how long they would ultimately spend in prison. It would end up being years before they'd be sentenced, and despite their cooperation, the possibility of spending decades behind bars was still on the table.

Entering the witness protection program.

That was offered to them by the government meant the family would be split up. Val and Viv wouldn't be able to speak to or visit their husbands until the day they were released from prison.

They even said that me and Viv couldn't even be together, our kids couldn't be together.

She had got at one part of the country. I had got another part.

Of the country, no communication, no.

Communication with us, with our families, with their husbands, with anyone, with no one, no one, our parents, no one.

I said, I'm gonna speak for me and Viv, and I said, we'd just absolutely not. We will not be going into the program. She put fear in us.

I know that she told us that they were there to help us, and that there's no way we could be, you know, on our own, especially with their husbands cooperating with their cooperation, and we weren't safe in Chicago.

That if we weren't.

Gonna go into the program, that we should leave the state. You shouldn't even be in Illinois. And we're like, where do we go. She's like, the only way we can help you is if you enter a witness protection if not, we can't assist you in any way. And we're like, okay, I just kind of went started going by the attorneys what they were telling me to do, and the attorneys they hired twenty four hour security for our men. Two SUV's blacked out and they start in front of the house twenty four to seven.

In Chicago. Yeah, to that point, you got a house.

Yeah, we went there, and then that they slept there. They were there twenty four to seven.

The decision not to enter the government's witness protection program so they could stay together meant.

The family were completely on their own.

Val Viv and the kids moved into one big house in Chicago where they could have the protection of around the clock private security team.

Across town.

J and P were also under around the clock protection, but they weren't in a big house. They were in a tiny cell in the shoe, no bigger than a cupboard, under twenty four hour lockdown.

For the first few months, it was straight locked. I couldn't even get a shower. I don't think we took a shower for three weeks. They just they didn't have the manpower. We didn't take a shower for three weeks. It got to a point something where like we would be so embarrassed where we stunk. So that was our first real los sting of the shoe, just wondering where I was living. I was she okay with my rest of my family. I think we didn't have not one word.

Did you get quite a lot with panic attacks in prison?

I had my share, but nothing like those, Nothing like those. I could tell you.

Yeah, the first one the first time, and for.

Some reason, it was weird because it made me think that your body, the beautiful thing about your mind and body, that a panic attack usually followed some peace. I don't know it felt like afterwards, you know, I cried, got back to know and then I kind of felt like okay, and it felt like like almost like a release of emotions and that, and there was like a soothing little face set like a self soothing for a little while. And all these things are like, well, how are you supposed to feel.

When you're going through that?

Like, I don't care if you If I am guilty of those crimes, that doesn't mean I don't feel these things.

They're normal, real human emotions.

If someone doesn't feel sad to be going through something like that, there's something wrong with them. If you don't, you know, if it doesn't hurt you to be apart from your family, see your babies crying for you, see your mother cry for you, do something wrong with you. You know, you're not scared to spend the rest of your life in prison. You haven't done any real time in prison. If you're in prison for two years or a year three months, that's nothing compared to the reality

I couldn't see my family.

I would get like a phone call here and there, and my brother and I were like pissed off, like, look, man nowhere proffering or debriefing whatever. But I wanted to say, right as every other person, I want to be able to.

See my family.

And it was like a humongous headache for them because of the security issues.

Finally we're able to see our husband after three weeks.

We had to go like under a like an underground tunnel into the US Attorneys into the federal building, and then they took us up the back elevators to the offices and that's where we saw Jay and Peter for the first time.

We had the kids with us.

Do you remember that day we were in that office. Yeah. I didn't expect to see them.

I remember the door open, like the office door opened, and I was able to plans down the.

Hallway and I seen her like standing right there.

Yeah, and we walked in and I remember my son just ran Patty. He's just like honey, crying.

Like everything.

We were all crying again.

Of course.

It was just so emotional and just looking at j and p and they were like just small, they were skinny, they were.

I'm sorry you got to smell. I'm sorry.

Smile. I took a shower for three weeks, like it's okay, you don't smile, you keep.

Your head up.

I kept lifting his chin up like you're look handsome. I'm like, don't do that, keep your head up. And he's like, okay, mess you. We love. It's just west like so many things like we're fine, we're safe, we're okay, we're okay.

It was like I wanted to ask questions, but it was more like we didn't.

In that moment, we didn't talk about what he went through. We didn't talk about what I went through he went through. It was just about our kids, you know, if we're okay and we were safe, and that was it.

It was I was like vocals, like the biggest he was okay if.

If he was eating, He's like, now that we're here in the offices, when they bring us, they bring us food or whatever they're eating, we eat and we're like, why can't you take a shower? It was just like it's so weird, like how do you get here? Like aren't you like across the street because they have like the MCC, the Metropolitan Correctional Center. He's like they move us and like these like bulletproof suburbans, and like with all these marshals and not much change, right, And it was when Obama.

Was Obama and had just won the election and he had I guess they had his office was in the Federal Building, right, they have an office there. And what happened was that I guess they had the Secret Service. The Secret Service would sometimes be there and you know, the marshals, and it would be those like they're protecting us, and it would be like elevators like hold on, hold on, Like it.

Was like always a problem.

At the same time, Lukovich, the Illinois governor, had just been indicted, so it was like always on media frenzy out there and we'd be in these you know, I guess you know Obama's security detour or us.

It kind of was like they couldn't tell what was what.

Right to them, media was obviously saying that J and P was like that was Obama. They were taking him and moving him around the city, and it was.

You two, yeah, yeah.

So how long were you there for?

Then?

Seven months?

Yeah.

If you were in Chicago in late two thousand and eight and thought you saw Obama's motorcade, chances are it was probably the Flores twins cooperating meant so much more than the one phone called Pete recorded on the phone to l Chapo. The daily motorcade continued every single day for another seven months. The twins were finally allowed to see their family, but there was one person who wouldn't visit them, their father. Pete and Jay were able to get the government to give him a visa to live

Father felt otherwise. He wanted his life in his homeland of Mexico.

He headed to the bus station to get on a bus to cross the Mexican border.

Val tried to stop him getting on the bus. It didn't work.

In the midst of their daily cooperation, the twins received some awful news. Within days of their father, Margarito Floris Senior, arriving in Mexico, he was kidnapped and was never seen again. All that was left was his burnt out car and a note that said, tell those fuckers to shut.

Up, or will send you his head.

The last time Pete and j had seen their father was back in Mexico when they told him they've been cooperating with the US government, the very thing he'd always told them never to do. He called them cowards and told them they weren't his sons.

How did you feel when you found out that he'd.

Died there.

I don't think that, even to this day, that I've been able to like really like take it on you put in the back of my mind at turns, because.

I guess just not.

Facials were continue to face those feelings of guilt.

You know, when I see my mom, I can see her loaning as I feel even worse, but like moving forward, like.

Like all those things he felt like.

I wish I had, like the story, I feel like to be able to tunnel like that I did the right thing, you know.

But he told me, like.

His eyes were like, don't trust the government. Don't they're gonna usual throw you away.

And he said, and these people are never gonna forget what you did.

And I had the idea to think that, you know, like that you're wrong, you know, and the situation I'm in today doesn't feel like he was wrong. You know, he's taking someone outside ranch. They found his vehicle and.

Yeah, mm hmm.

That was it. That was a threat. And to me it was like a threat, you know, but a threat, asked me, you know, it wasn't It was more of a.

Statement right for him. Mm hmmm.

I don't think it's ten from what it was. But I guess we understand. I knew one person it was a cartle.

Chapel m. Yeah, for sure.

I don't recall it the exact words, but I know it was something about us talking.

I was called prayer.

So you're angry, You're angry that what they did.

No, I'm not angry. I think I blame myself.

I blame myself like or I take responsibility for it as I have, you know, incoing present for my actions. And I think that was a consequence of my actions. I think that we like try to like just put on this face. And I think it was the situation where in the and I try to remember, I remember sitting there thinking.

If this is what happened because of this, then I wouldn't make this work there like I'm not gonna like come here and just start, you know, second guessing.

It's like.

We're gonna stand for something that's meaningful to hours in the stuff from Pintro. I Still here, We're still going.

Surviving El Chapo, The Twins Who Brought Down a Drug Lord. Season two is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and me Charlie Webster, produced by myself and Jackson mcclennan, Assistant producer and research support by Katie Hurtz. Edit and sound designed by Nico Polella. Theme music and original score by Ryan Sorenson. It's executive produced by Curtis fifty.

Cent Jackson and Me Charlie Webster.

Curtis fifty cent Jackson presents a lions It Sound, a G unit audio production exclusively for IHET Podcasts.

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