Welcome to my world.
Bitch, wow, god good here.
Welcome to the one hundred and sixty seventh episode of the Supernatural Current Studies podcast.
So iraq Nically Paranormal.
My name is Jason Knight, host of the show, and with me, as.
Always is Oscar Spector.
Producer Extraordinary and podcast co hosts.
The fuck word was that I made it up Iraq iraqnically the Iraq.
I love it.
That's why I said, oh shit right before, because I was like, oh, I didn't think of a word.
I don't think. Yeah, you've and all these episodes, I don't think you've ever like repeated a word.
No, actually, sure, so I actually did, have you I did? I used the same one twice, not thinking, not putting it in my unchecked box and my apps and my notes. Oh so I fucked up. But that's it. That's only one to fuck up.
That's a right. We'll let it go. Let it go. It's pretty impressive that I have one hundred and sixty seven episodes more with bonuses.
Well, well, no, I've only started this recently. I haven't I haven't done this. I'm giving you too much credit, right, It might be a little bit not like, well, it's just yeah, anyway, I've done this like as a gag before, but it wasn't consistent until recently.
Got it.
Yeah, that's what I mean. That's what I mean.
Well, well what you went up to? Man, it's been a month. You went to Mexico?
Yeah, actually Mexico went to me. I folded time and space folded it onto Chicago and made them come to me. It was very interesting. Don't recommend it.
There's just so many jokes. I'm just not going to do it.
What even what even?
People are way too sensitive these things.
Okay, I didn't even know where you were going. I'm just curious as a matter of you know whatever. Uh yeah, I went to kN Kun for a destination wedding. We went through this, of course, and you haven't into one.
I have wait what My mom's one who corrected me, will you?
Mam listened to the episode and she's like, bitch, you've been to a destination wedding and you forgot about it.
I did, Please tell me my best.
Friend's best friend's wedding?
When when remember I went to New Orleans for a destination wedding?
Oh?
Who which friend?
Surveio? Okay minister sal Yeah, listeners.
He also his wedding. I didn't know his wedding wasn't because I didn't go to New ORLEANSKA New Orleans. That counts. You did it.
I did it. Yeah, he was married by the voodoo queen Bloody Mary. But it was the ceremony was at Muriel's Jackson Square, which is haunted.
And you forgot about this, fucking forgot. You know why you forgot about it because you that was because you know, you go to newr owns all the time, all the time, so you must have just complained it as a regular daily or yearly a vacation spot. Yeah, and you just confused it.
But that was my that was my one destiny.
So you did do it.
So not everybody hates me.
It's not everybody hated right, And also everyone else I asked, they all said, no, I've never been to one till you know, now whatever, not the Cantcon one.
So what happened in cancuon anything crazy? Any crazy Mexican stories?
No, not Mexican stories. I mean I went to a resort in Puerto Morelos. I think it was called Porto.
Is that the name of the hotel?
That's the name of the place, the town, because yeah, it's like forty minutes or thirty minutes from cancuon proper is not in Cancun, you know what I'm saying. It's in a resort in Porto or Morelos. I think that's the name of it. I'm not grave with names, but you know they have they don't. They don't own the beaches,
but they kind of have it closed off. So it seems like the resort owns the beaches, but the beaches are federal proper ready anyone can call on them, but they have their own side of beech area pretty big. I happened to stay, so I'll give two anadots. One about the resort itself. My first time ever and this kind of thing all inclusive. No, I did not try my hardest to stay drunk all the time to make it worth it. But I did get drunk, I mean once, and that was pretty I was buzzed for most of
the time, Okay, a little lesson buzz. I tried to get drunk a few times. I just couldn't.
I wonder if they were watering down the drinks.
Probably, but I don't know. Some of them. You could feel that were strong. The Roman Cokes was the strongest they have, like coconut margarita stuff.
You know.
Also that was like yeah, obviously resort drinks. Yeah yeah, a lot of a lot of hools I had. I had never been out on an infinity pool, I don't think until until this time.
So okay, they.
Have rooftop infinity pool bars. No kids allowed. I was up on that motherfucker every day. Any mamitas, No, not like that. No, No, A lot of great mom I see that brid's mates, but they're all taken. So you know, well, okay, I'm not going to break up a home. What am I anyway? What am I thirty? I'm not so uh. I want to mention that I got the best room accidentally.
I got the best offer at the time, and I guess they were offering their newest part of the resort during when I bought my stay, and I happened to have one of the best rooms that anyone else didn't have. Is I had his amazing tub and I had a hammock on the patio like on a balcony thing. It was nice.
Did your balcony overlook the ocean and stuff?
No?
It didn't. It wasn't. It wasn't an ocean view. I'm pretty sure those costs more. But it was. It was jungle view. It was all right there, that's it's really cool.
You.
No, I saw a lot of trash pandas.
Oh really, yeah, there's there's raccoons.
Oh yeah, really yeah everywhere?
Do they carry knives a little switchblades?
No, they don't know, they don't careful. You're fine. Don't worry, folks, I got them and uh no, but I saw them sticking around inside every night. I would see them sticking around the stairs because it's all outdoors. Almost all the buildings are kind of outdoorsy, and they were sneaking around looking at going through the trash our trash.
I I didn't realize. Yeah, I thought there was.
Like and I saw lemurs. People were correcting me. You didn't see a lemur. I'm like, I saw something like one then like a leader you see monkeys. Oh, I did see something like I don't know I can tell you what it was. I thought it was limeur ish, you know, maybe a lynx or something. Rypto take a lot of lizards to a bunch of lizards. Yeah, anyway, so the wedding itself. I want to get into the
wedding because it's a funny story. The one day I actually did get really toasted, really drunk, drunk enough I threw up is the day, the day of the wedding. So the wedding ceremony started around five pm and it went into the night, of course, so I was like, oh, I have all this time. I was up at ten, you know whatever, I was up at the pool. I didn't have I wasn't our groomsmen, so I didn't have any duties before the ceremony. I was just there for
to enjoy the ride. So I was up and I was talking to a bunch of strangers, making up stories about myself. Was great, and they kept giving me drinks and I kept not saying no. So by the time I got out of the water, I realized I was drunk. That's when I realized it. I went to my room to start getting kind of ready, shower and all that I threw my I threw up a lot in the hotel room. Right. I had enough time to take an hour nap, and I was surprised that I woke up
in time to get ready and dress. I'm surprised I put on the correct clothes because I was still wasted. I'm surprised I did. Anything I didn't get to do was shave. But it wasn't that bad. But it was, but I still sort of shaved. Besides that, I didn't forget anything. Surprisingly, I put on the right suit, the right pants, the right shirt, and I went down there and everyone, you know, the people that know me, A lot of the friends there, they're like, are you wasted? Like, fuck, yes,
I'm wasted. So I had two of our friends maybe sit me, one of them in particular, and on my way to the walk cup. So the walk up it was like it's like a walk up thing that's set on the beach itself, so on both sides of the water, and you walk up to the beach. That's where all the chairs were at where the ceremony was. Yeah, it was a beautiful one point picturesque. On my way up to it, I threw up on the side. Nobody animals, Yeah,
I threw up. No hold on, I threw up on the side, and everyone's so oil didn't fall in into the rocks, into the water. I didn't, and I sat in the very back. Luckily, the bride was nowhere near me because she wasn't up there yet. I hadn't started yet, and then I was. I barely remember the ceremony, don't remember. I had to get my collections from people in my drunken stupor. I took photos that I forgot pretty well, and I don't remember much of it. But so I
powered through that. There was like a little swarry back before we went to the reception area and a different beach. But by the time I got there, I was fine, and I was dancing and parting and way more sober. At the reception, I didn't anymore. I did not drinking. I just drank water. But I powered through it and I made my way back out of it. So I almost ruined the wedding, but I didn't.
That's congrats on holding it together.
I did.
That's what men do.
People were surprised it up, and people were surprised that I was white knuckling through it. I'm like, I'm gonna be okay, fuck you, I'm gonna do it.
I did the pool, the sun, the heat, the drinks. It'll hit you fast, man.
I guess.
So I fell for it, all right. So that story one story two.
You want another one?
Yeah?
Okay, so you had two. No, the first one was like I would describe like my room.
Oh god, so no wild like wedding. What's the wedding crashers movie with Owen Wilson and the other guy.
Nobody crashed it?
No?
Oh I did do something. Okay, there is a second story. This is fun. This is a one time thing, once in a lifetime thing. Maybe I went snorkeling for the first time. Yeah, that was gonna be some crazy see. Okay, here's the thing. Have you I'm sure you've done. You've done snorkeling a million times. Yeah, that's the thing. I've never done it. Wow, I've never Jake. The last time I've seen the ocean was at least fifteen years ago.
Wow. Okay, So I can't live that way. I couldn't live that way.
No.
I mean I see the ocean as often as possible.
That's fine. But for me, I grew up here. I grew up by a huge lake.
Sure.
Yeah, I'm saying is I grew up here. I don't know a life with an ocean. So I was out in the middle of the ocean. I was in one of the one of those reefs that they have, apparently one of the rare reefs around there. I don't know. I was out there. It was the most terrifying, fucking two hours of my life. Jay. I spent a legit hour completely terrified. I was in a die out there.
Do you think it was gonna happen?
It was?
I What do you mean, what was gonna happen? What were you afraid of dying?
Drowning? Drowning, drowning? Yeah, oh, I'm not gonna say a shark. No, nothing so glamorous. I was just afraid of drowning. Dude. The water kept going into the tube and then I just spit it out, like yeah, I was doing that, but then one of my slipper of things came unfastened. That was freaking the fuck out because they're telling you not to stand because they don't want your judge in the No. I know, and I didn't, but like I was, like, there were moments where I was freaking the fuck out.
What do you think of the taste of ocean water?
I made one of the other people from the wedding party throw up because I think she swallowed too much.
That's happened to me before that.
That didn't happen to me. I didn't throw up. I sucked it up. I went through it. Two of other friends stayed behind the boat. They couldn't do it. I was like, no, I'm gonna fucking do it. It looks terrifying, but I'll do it. It's so vast, though, How do people fucking go out there all the fucking time. It's fucking It's insane. You people are stupid anyway, So I'm never doing that again. But I was out there.
I was out there for doing it.
Man.
It took like a forty minute or more maybe now, I don't remember on the boat to go out far enough to be out there.
Wow.
And we saw barracuda, We saw turtles, we saw schools of fish. We saw somebody saw a man ray, I really wanted to see one. Somebody als saw a shark. I didn't see that. Bro Okay, drink some whiskey and but it was fine. I don't regret so half of it was terrified. That I have was pretty beautiful and cool.
Did you get photos?
No?
I didn't have a bag for my phone or okay, I didn't have any set up at all. This was paid by the groom. It was like all set up in advance day after the wedding. So that's what you did.
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah, so I've never done that before the story, So to me, that's like a brand new thing. It's like going to a roller coaster for the first time, you know. Uh, but never again, Okay, never again. I don't think so, man, it's just nah, not son.
White people could have this too.
Yeah, you can fucking have it. There's a reason white people drowned that submarine thing three years ago or whatever it was. Yeah, no, no, thank you.
Are you talking about yeah, the Richmond Ocean.
Yeah yeah, yeah, there's a reason they were white, fucking crazy, crazy nuts anyway, great, Yeah, roughly those are two stories.
You showed me some the pictures looked great, looked beautiful.
I did I remember that?
Yeah, yeah you did. So I'm glad you had a good time.
If you had my snapchat, you would have seen the whole thing.
I don't do all that.
Yeah, I'm just saying your wife did. I think she has good good for her, and she didn't to show your name. She damn she don't care.
No, we don't talk.
So yeah, that's roughly the escapades.
That's great. I think it's awesome. Good for you.
Yeah, glad you had no crazy sex.
You're safe. Yeah, you're like quadruples. No, the way you get down.
Uh, the way I try to get down is different from the way I actually get down. But but no, nothing like that even remotely. I didn't think about it. Answer.
Yeah, I was just yeah, I kept thinking, I'm like man asks probably in Mexico having him some sex, right, I.
Just wanted to get drunk. I think the most closest I was the first day I was there. I was in Cancun, the city proper because our a cousin that lives there. We stayed with him. I stayed with him, sorry where I got B and B nearby and we were in the city for the first day. Fucking hot as fuck. We walked everywhere too. We can't have a car available, which is fine. We didn't mind it, but like, damn, but that was the only time I was like meeting
people more. Okay, yeah, well it was fine. Like it's a water city, pretty hot, lot of palm trees.
I was gonna ask you, what is Cancun like the city of.
So it's like it's like it's like it's like Vegas in the sense that a very touristy, a lot of touristy stuff, like a lot of like vendors on the street that have a whole areas that could be a park for another city is just vendor city, like little vendors of anything tequila to hand bags, two T shirts, whatever it is. Yeah, everything's still cheap there, dude. I bought because I need to break my vape all. I
was like, I'm gonna smoke cigarettes for this trip. I smoked a lot, but I think I bought like two or three packs, plus a water, plus a toothpaste because I've forgotten my toothpaste when I came over. All like twenty dollars US.
Yeah, and two packs of cigarettes is more than twenty bucks.
One pack in the city in nineteen dollars in the city eighteen something. Yeah, you're lying. I'm not lying. I'm sitting.
When I quit smoking, I think it was eight dollars a pack, eight or nine.
You quit that long ago.
Yeah, it's been a while.
While it's been a while, they've been steadily increasing it. Now you've been.
Almost twenty dollars for a single pack.
I could buy almost a box of them. I actually did. I went to the duty free store on my way out on the fort. Of course, I got a carton for fifty three dollars.
Fifty three dollars.
Yeah, they'd be like three hundred dollars in the city. No shit, I'm not kidding. Well, maybe two hundred, but yeah, something like that. It's a long so glad. It's a lot of money.
That's nuts.
I guess maybe two hundreds closer. Yeah, but either way, a lot more. So I bought it. I figured I saw some more, use them here and there.
Yeah, I sell some, you know.
Yeah, got a racket. Yeah, what's the big deal?
I can't do that.
Everything good for us. Remember that scene when the cows came over, like, id's you want?
Of course?
I know?
Yeah, yeah, you know what he's like. He's like, it's okay. He's like no, it's not okay.
No, He's like, no, no, it's fine, it's fine. No, it's not dude, I just had a hundred proof whiskey come through my nose.
It's not that I'll sell some yeah, i'll sell something. Ever, it's a big deal. People are desperad bro hard times.
Good times. I love it. Yeah, I love it, and I love you. I don't have anything as exciting. I had a birthday.
That's why. Happy birthday.
Oh thank you. Yeah.
I know you don't think it's a big deal, but you forget Oh, I would never remember your birthday if I don't have social media to remind me or you, I would never remember.
Yeah, yeah, it was literally yesterday.
Nice.
Yeah, I'm not going to say my age.
Oh do you want me to tell you? No, I will. It's it's a dividend of twelve.
There you go.
How about that?
Yep, it is the square root of a funk. Everything hurts. Yeah, that's why sight's going.
How's unique? Cabs?
They're fine, they're fine. Yeah, So that's that's all I got. That's all I got.
No, you're fine, it's not nothing. Well, it's not nothing. And you're having a nice dinner tomorrow. You're doing a whole thing you have is your weekend, this is your birthday weekend.
Yeah, my wife took me out to that was meaning my full steak rush, steak meal. Kids came, little gifts and stuff, very nice. And then yeah, we're doing a little something extra tomorrow, which would be Saturday. That's cool of this recording the twenty three four twenty three Yeah.
I never remember my parents' birth birthdays either, So really, I don't feel bad.
Don't feel so bad, don't feel bad.
I forget everybody. Don't feel bad, alright. The only ones that commit to memory is when I if I'm in a relationship, I'll remember the partners. You know, birth, that's really it. That's it. I know my family's because I grew up with them. I wish I didn't remember. But in my families, I mean my brothers. Sorry, not my mom or anything.
You don't remember your mom's birthday, I.
Think it's in September. Oh, my dad's in something November.
And I'm dude, I don't know. Google calendar. Google calendar. That's what I did.
It's okay, they'll tell me.
But yeah, other than that, it's no other news to really report on.
It's okay. I think I said enough for both of us this week.
There you go. Yeah, Yeah, should we take a break.
I think we should. How did I take a break, Yes, let's do it.
Okay, Chicago's podcast dot Com let's take a break. Listeners, welcome back to the show. Well, the lights are turned down low. The ceremonial candle is lit and the drinks are flowing.
Tank.
Let's start this.
Show, all right, Nicholas Cage.
They can't see what I'm doing behind.
The He's gesticulating wildly emoting. That's what I said, the vibe into the groove.
We didn't talk about what whiskey were drinking, No, we did not. We just kind of cut to break.
That's what you did. You were having an aneurysm. We'll have to break.
So we are drinking a nice ten year whistle pig Rye. It's a Honet proof hone it one hundred.
I know what you meant, and it's good.
I like, I'm not disliking this.
What do you think I'll drink it? But I'm not a big y guy.
Yeah, I know you don't like Rye. I know, listen, I'm not listening. I typically I don't drink whistle pig often at all. Where I drink it, where I was turned onto it, and where I continue to drink it is at this nice hotel on the beach in New Smyrna Beach, Florida. Okay, that's my place to have whistle pig old fashions. And that's where I picked up this whistle pig thing must be the only place, the only place I drink it. But I grabbed this ten year bottle.
I'm like, oh, let's let's try it. And I've had it sitting with it. A bottle is ten Yeah, it's a ten year old. Ten year old shut up. Yeah, So it's been sitting on my shelf for a couple of years, to be honest. We finally cracked it tonight, and I enjoy it. I like it as a spicy as other rise we've had that you don't don't like. For sure.
Yeah, I would say there are worst rise I've had. Oh yeah, for sure. But it's good. I'll do it'll do well. It'll warm me up. And it's been cold lately. Again. I hate it.
It has even though I'm opening the pool.
You know. I mean, I went from like like heat, heat, humid hot, aspecting heat, heat, heat, and then I came to Chicago and I was like, oh, it's nice out here. So I thought I came back in a good time. And then it's like, nope, nope, back down to forties and thirties. And we went down to almost twenties one night, Oh my god, Damn, it's bad, it's late. May can we come on.
The other thing I wanted to mention quickly is just a thank you to all our new Instagram followers. We've been picking up Instagram followers like crazy lately, So thank you to everybody. We appreciate it. The ground and that's at Chicago Ghosts. Probably, I mean after fucking ten years. Yeah, you probably should.
Are you saying we've had the Instagram for ten years?
Eight years? Maybe?
Wow?
I don't know, it's been it's been a long time.
Wow.
Yeah, you probably should. Ready to do this. I got a crazy one tonight.
I know nothing, just know. I was just gonna say a baby to it. I've read your mind.
It's a long one. It's a long one, and.
We've had longer we have.
In tonight's episode, we're plunging into the dark underbelly of New York City in the nineteen sixties, seventies, and eighties, riotous decades that set the stage and helped fuel the horrific crimes will be discussing tonight. Against the backdrop of urban decay and desperation of ruthless predator emerged from the shadows created by screaming neon lights.
Okay, I'll put you now. Wasn't that bad?
Join us as we delve into the harrowing tale of Richard Francis Cottingham, also known as the Times Square Killer or the Times Square Ripper of Torso Killer.
I know this one.
Have you heard of him? Have you heard?
I heard it? Yeah? I wouldn't say I know him details.
He's a nasty fuck and he's kind of a lesser known serial killer. I don't know why, but it just this isn't a household name.
Well that monik. You know, the Times Square Killer. I've heard before. You know, so I have. There's been documentaries and to the extent that I know very little about this until we do it on the show. Yeah, you know, I'm so pedestrian about it. I've heard of this guy and.
Maybe this is so as we delve into the horrifying crimes of Richard Cottingham, who was an active serial killer between nineteen sixty seven and nineteen eighty. So a good stretch there. Yeah, it's crucial to understand that he was not an isolated monster. And I think this is the problem though, cotting him crimes stand on their own. They unfolded against a backdrop of nationwide horror. For anyone living through it, Turning on the evening news or opening the
newspaper meant confronting a relentless stream of brutality. From the nineteen sixties through the nineteen eighties, the United States was gripped by a terrifying surge of serial violence. It was a terrifying era. The Manson family murders shattered the idealism of the Summer of Love in nineteen sixty nine. Simultaneously, the Zodiac Killer stock California, killing at random and taunting the media with cryptic letters well into the nineteen seventies.
Over in New York, David Berkowitz, infamously known as the Sun of sam unleashed fear during the summers of nineteen seventy six. In nineteen seventy seven, on the West Coast, Angelo Brno Junior and Kenneth Bianchi, the Hillside Stranglers, abducted and murdered young women in Los Angeles between seventy seven and seventy eight. Ted Bundy left a multi states trail of death from Washington to Florida in nineteen seventy four
to seventy eight, while Gary Ridgeway. The Green River killer was targeting vulnerable women in Washington State from nineteen eighty two well into the late nineteen nineties. So this is why I think, you know, Cottingham kind of gets lost in that.
Yeah, it's well, you know a lot of people hail these these decades were the worst, man, I mean terrifying, terrif obviously before this too, but not much before because of all the turmoil, political upheavals. I mean, how close almost like coming face to face so close to global nuclear war, fucked up something in people in a certainly popular at one percent, and it's like just drove them crazy. Yeah, like that's how close we came. Fuck everyone has killed people. Like that's how it feels.
You know.
It's something in the water that three no, nine sixty two, right, that's curbing miss crisis. Yeah, I'm just saying like that. I think it broke people, and people were like a good point when the world's mortality was taken into account that day or that week whatever.
Oh ship, we could be wiped out that easy.
Yeah, that easy? Fuck everyone, What is it matter? Some people broke, Some people broke. What are you gonna do? You know this reminds me of something I've haanned a little bit but not too much. Is that the latest Not to get into it, The latest Final Destination movie came out a lot of a lot of brutal kills, a lot of brutal murdering, and there's no serial killer
unless you count that as a zero killer. But I heard an interview with the directors right and in it they were explaining how they were talking about how they do focus groups. They showed the movie to a lot of people versions of it so they can tweak it to you know, maximizer profits. That's how it works. And apparently this latest version of the Final Destination movie, more
women wanted more gore. Wow, Like is as unprecedented all the other movies was way less like usually guys or different groups of people, but younger women or women in general wanted all the brutality, all the gore. They wanted it added in they want They didn't want bloodless stuff. They wanted blood.
I wonder what that means, and.
I was thinking about it, and like it comes I think it comes from because it's been like twelve years since the last Final Destination and in that time period and before that, of course, I think a surge of serial killer podcast serial killer documentaries has exploded so much. I mean, we have more in one year than we've had I think all of history, it feels like in serial killer material. Yeah, like a Netflix alone, and that's
Mention and HBO and all of them. They all have their own I think all major consumers of that are women, and it doesn't say it most of them are women.
You think there's a lot of memes and jokes regarding how women are like doing something playful like knitting something or watching team not watching to be washing their dishes or driving a car, and they're listening to the most horrific thing and on the outside they look completely cheerful and happy, but in their ears they're listening to descriptions of horrible murders.
What does that mean?
And I feel like, yeah, so into the correlation there.
I think you're right.
Yeah, I think you're right.
It's interesting. Yeah it is, ladies. I don't know, tell us, what do you think what is driving your passion your obsession.
With or Instagram followers?
It could be let us know contact at Chicago goospodcast dot com. Yeah, it's a little feed in there for them.
You're welcome.
Thank you. To understand how Richard Cottingham was able to operate undetected for so long again nineteen sixty seven to nineteen eighty, we got to examine the New York City of the sixties, seventies, and eighties, a city that's drastically different from the one we know today now. During these decades, New York was teetering on the edge, plagued by social unrest,
economic collapse, and skyrocketing crime. It was a city unraveling, and that chaos created the perfect cover for predators like Cottingham. The nineteen sixties were marked by upheaval. The civil rights movement fueled way of protests, strikes, and violent confrontations. In nineteen sixty four, the Harlem Riots erupted, followed by the New York City Riot of nineteen sixty seven. Then in nineteen sixty nine, the Stonewall Riots, an explosive response to police brutality.
And the quiet riots come on feel the noise.
The Stonewall Riots, an explosive response to police brutality, sparked the modern LGBTQ plus rights movement. These events painted a portrait of a city grappling with deep racial tension and social change. Estimates from race related unrest during the sixties include between fifty and three hundred deaths, more than one thousand injuries, and over four thousand arrests. Property damage exceeded forty five million dollars at that time, which is four
hundred and forty million in today's money. Of volatility, couldn't get that out, you got it in. Fragmentation helped obscure Conningham's crimes as they begin wow. The nineteen seventies plunged New York into what many consider its darkest era. Crumbling infrastructure, graffiti covered trains and buildings, and constant emergency sirens defined
daily life. Entire neighborhoods in the Bronx and Upper Manhattan were reduced to ruins by arson Times Square became a center for sex, work and drugs, while Central Park, beautiful today, gained a reputation for violent crime. Robberies, rape, and even murder. Crime surge to record highs in nineteen seventy The Hard Hat Riot saw construction workers attack student anti war protesters in broad daylight. The Attica prison uprising in seventy one
further highlighted the systems collapse and yes. In nineteen seventy five, two separate bombings, one at Phronsie's Tavern that killed four and another at LaGuardia Airport that killed eleven, rocked the city. The later remains unsolved to this day. I never knew there was a bombing like that at LaGuardia Airport, But yeah, seventies were crazy. In seventy seven, the infamous Blackout left
the city in chaos for twenty five hours. There were three deaths, over a thousand fires, four hundred and thirty injured police officers, and thousands arrested for looting. All this occurred as the Son of Sam's serial killings again from nineteen seventy six to seventy seven, gripped the public with fear. Spike Lee's movie The Summer of Sam would later capture that raw panic and paranoia.
And the heat of it too.
That's what it was about it.
That's why I loved about that movie, not nexsarily the serial killer stuff in it, but the stuff about New York. Yeah, that's what he named. I think it was great in that movie. I also remind me remember that time in New York, also Chicago. I think around pandemic. Don't ask me the year, but recently in our history, there wasn't a big outage in New York. Do you remember this?
I think I do.
It lasted like a couple of days, maybe a few days. I don't remember exactly. I remember how people were panicking on the news and politicians, I don't know who, you know, people with mouthpieces. They were all panicking about riots, probably akin to this history you're talking about, right, and nobody nobody did anything.
They stayed.
Yeah.
Well, because the thing is that that's the change. That's part of the I think a positive change of from that decade to this decade a little bit. Obviously, I'm not saying there's no violence anywhere, but I'm just saying that those extremes don't. I'm not saying we'll never come back, because they totally could come back any minute. They haven't been back, is my point.
Thankfully.
Yeah, so that everyone's so worried and nothing happened.
Yeah, it does sound You're right. It does sound sounds like people trapped in subways.
And trust me, if some I think violent crazy had occurred and during that time a couple of years back, we would remember, we would be like, oh, yeah, I remember that one hundred percent. Yeah, But it's easier to forget something that didn't happen.
So didn't turn out that's bad. You forget.
It's like saying like, oh, what's in the news today, Oh apparently this just then everything's fine. Nobody won't to say of that, I won't forget it.
Well, if it bleeds, it leads. The nineteen eighties continued the city's downward spiral violent crime, sword setting grim records for murder, rape, burglaries, and auto theft. In the year nineteen eighty alone, New York reported one eight hundred and fourteen homicides. That same year, Mark David Chapman murdered John Lennon in front of the Dakota on Manhattan's Upper West Side. The New York Times would call nineteen eighty the worst year of crime in city history.
Still you think, do you think still as of that time?
No?
I mean, I mean it's as you think, it's still the worst here, I mean to this day.
Oh, I don't know. Things started improving then, I mean.
Yeah, you know, yes, But also, like, have we is it this sensationalized? Also? I wonder if those statistics has been says, stanctionalized to make it seem that occurring years or later on years been more worse for crime, even if it wasn't. You know, you always think of that because I feel like it's hard to believe everything.
Yeah, I hope not. I hope it was able to be left behind the nineteen eighty and pricked there. But unfortunately, no, not yet. It's going to get a little worse. But again, this was the landscape in which Richard Cottingham hunted, a fractured, chaotic city distracted by wave after wave of crisis in a world so overwhelmed by violence and disorder, Cuttingham's horrific acts could hide in plain sight. Residents were fleeing the city in droves as government mismanagement brought New York to
the brink of bankrupts. Budget cuts led to a reduced police force. Just as the crack cocaine epidemic unleashed an unprecedented wave of addiction and violence. New Yorkers were warned against riding the subway, and many entire neighborhoods were deemed literal no go zones. Times Square became a magnet for vice, a place where the dazzling glow of neon lights bellied the darkness lurking beneath. What had once been a symbol of New York's vibrant entertainment district transformed into a grim
theater of exploitation and desperation. Peep shows, adult cinemas, and sex shops dominated every block, while drug dealers operated openly catering to a steady stream of attics. The streets were overrun with lost souls, runaways, sex workers, the homeless, and the mentally ill, many of whom had nowhere else to go. It was a place where hope flickered like a dying bulb, and danger was constant. Violence was routine, with muggings, assaults,
and even murders occurring just steps from flashing marquees. For many times, Square offered a last resort, a place to disappear, to numb the pain, or to hustle for survival. When I think about this these eras in New York's history, scenes from iconic movies instantly come to my mind. And see, if you agree, moments that kind of truly capture the essence of what it was like to live there during those times. Take the scene from and you know, I
got to do it. The Exorcist, where father Damien Carrots Karras visits his mother's tenemente apartment on forty eighth Street. Outside, these impoverished children play in the shells of abandoned, burnt out cars, painting a haunting picture of urban decay. Do you remember that scene?
I think so. Yeah, it's not like super clear. Yeah, what I think of is a HBO show The Deuce.
The Deuce. Oh, I've seen one or two.
I never got into it, but yeah, it's amazing.
I'm sure it is.
It's all about New York during that era, and that's specifically that almost.
Entirely slimy scummy.
Yeah, that's well, yeah, one of them works that I die bar right off one of the streets.
There.
There's a lot of subway scenes and yeah, yeah, a lot of well it's not just about the murder or anything like that, but it has criminal elements at the mob in. It has a bunch of stuff in it.
Well, how about this one. Martin Scorsese brought New York's forgotten corners to life in mean streets. I love bean streets, the dark alleys, dilapidated apartments, and CD bars weren't just backdrops, they were almost literal characters in their own right. These gritty, unpolished settings revealed parts of the city that would never make it into a tourist guidebook. For me, these films perfectly encapsulate the raw and unvarnished reality of New York during that era.
Everything panic at Nedle Park.
In which Cottingham operated. I haven't is that with al Pacino? I haven't, I haven't.
It's filmed in the seventies. I think sure, it's about sure it was addicts living, probably in Central Park. Yeah, oh no, in Needle Park. I think that's might be another park. I don't remember. It's been a Watsons in it, but I know that's.
I'll bet you it's Cral Park or some some section of Central Park they called Needle Park.
Yeah, you're probably right. I can't tell you.
Yeah, but I'll tell you. There's probably no better example than another Scorsese film, Taxi Driver, from nineteen seventy six, starring Robert de Niro and taxi driver. De Niro's character Travis Bickle, describes New York as a sinful nightmare full of animals, terrible people bent on destroying innocence, and as an open sewer filled with filth and scum. These are
quotes from the movie. As Travis Bickle glides through Times Square in his yellow cab, he passes a glut of pimps, prostitutes, go go bars, sex shops, peep shows, adult theaters, and porno shops, the very symbols of the city's decay and
the symbols of Times Square itself. Bickles New York. Is in New York that birth Richard Cottingham, the Times Square Killer, someone who may be responsible for upwards of one hundred murders of teenage girls, runaways and prostitutes between the sixties and eighties in New York and New Jersey.
On y Yeah, okays, Bickel is the pre orschack.
Roorschack from taxi.
Taxi, no chack from Watchman.
Fuck.
Did I say taxi? I don't know rosik in taxi the show.
Horse shack, horseshack, Welcome back Cotter, I meant rorshak well, I said horseshack, and that's welcome back Cotter through Richard Cottingham. Though Richard Cottingham may not be a household name, his heinous crimes left a lasting impact on New York City. This relatively unknown serial killer etched a permanent mark on the city's history and instilling fear, reshaping perceptions of safety, and prompting a critical re evaluation of support systems for
vulnerable populations. His brutal acts continue to resonate within New York's collective memory, a grim reminder of the dark chapters in its past. Known for his ability to blend seamlessly into the chaotic streets, Cottingham's methods were as chilling as they were calculated. He focused on the Times Square area of New York, which again was known for its illicit activities and the high chance of encountering female runaways and
prostitutes and the homeless. Cottingham would lure his victims into secluded areas or into shitty hotel rooms, and that's when his vicious work would commence. And since he deliberately preyed on the vulnerable and the marginalized, an additional layer of
difficulty was added to any kind of police investigation. As we talked about in our Long Island serial Killer episodes, it could take a while for someone to realize that these types of women are actually missing, to remember the terms the missing, missing or less dead or NHI no humans involved. Unfortunately, prostitutes and runways are typically not a high priority for police when they are discovered missing. They gambled and lost. And it's not known how many women
Cottingham actually killed, As I said, some estimate. Some estimates places body at a BodyCount at one hundred or more. However, we can confirm that Cottingham's victim count is at least sixteen women, not including intended victims that miraculously survived, although not unscathed. It's also speculated that his killing grounds could span many more states besides New York and New Jersey. So I want to get into Cottingham's early years a bit,
even though after all this research there's nothing really remarkable. There, no aha.
Moment, Well, did he go to California?
Nokay, No no indication, but there's no aha moments in his growth in his childhood to explain why this guy turned out the way he did, okay. Cottingham was born on November twenty fifth, nineteen forty six, in the Bronx, New York, the first of four children, and soon after his birth, the family relocated to New Jersey, where Cottingham spent most of his childhood. Overall, he had a stable and comfortable upbringing in a fairly well off Catholic household.
Now Cottingham faced some challenges with making friends during his grammar school and high school years, but that's not abnormal. He was considered handsome by some, but he had poor eyesight, which made sports difficult for him to play. But nothing tragic with that either, But he apparently found solace and purpose in joining his high school's track team. I don't know. I would never do it. I think that's psychotic myself.
But yeah, you're not much. You're a runner.
No police are behind me. There's no known sexual abuse, killing of animals, bedwetting, starting fires, nothing like that in his past. I read one article that said Cottingham discovered and enjoyed bondage porn as a teen. But does that tell us he's going to become one of the worst
serial killers one day? No, of course not. After graduating high school in sixty four, Cottingham wasted no time and immediately started working as a computer operator at Metropolitan Life Insurance Company, where his father was vice president, and he also took computer courses during this time to further enhance his knowledge in the field, which would serve him well when he eventually worked for Blue Cross Blue Shield in New York, a career he kept all the way up
until he was arrested in nineteen eighty. Now this, you can't make this shit up, I'm telling you. In this crazy twist of fate, while Cottingham worked at Blue Cross Blue Shield, he actually worked in an office with another brutal serial killer we covered on this podcast, Rodney Alcala dating game killer. Yeah, the notorious child rapist and serial killer we covered in episode one nine. Of course you
do last. Yeah, Cottingham worked with this asshole. Now there's no indication that either of these two jag offs knew of each other's proclivities or killed together or anything like that. But still, what are the chances, Yeah, what are the chances.
They walked by in the hallway something with this guy.
Yeah, I don't trust this fucking day this guy's I don't trust this fucking guy.
Like, step away from that one. That one's mine. I call her tips.
It's weird. It's just do you call that serendipity. I don't think you call that certen dipity.
No, it's just coincidence. I guess you think they passed next to each other in the same bathroom, like Saul, Like I don't know, I can see a skid. How about that?
I don't know. That would be some funny you could you come up with some funny shit.
For maybe yeah, maybe Anyway.
In the May of nineteen seventy, Cottingham married his wife. He was married and they had three kids, Blair in nineteen seventy three, Scott in seventy five, and Jenna in seventy six. And the fact that this guy was married, it's not that strange. A lot of serial killers actually had wives and kids and they held down normal jobs, just like Cottingham. Think John Wayne Gacy the Killer Clown, or Robert Hanson the butcher Baker, both of whom we
covered on this show, or Dennis Rader BTK Now. It's mentioned in numerous articles that after the birth of their third child, Jenny, Cottingham completely stopped having sex with his wife, He neglected her, and he basically stopped providing physically, mentally, emotionally, and financially as a husband should.
So.
In nineteen seventy nine, Janet filed for divorce, which was finalized in eighty one after Cottingham was caught for being the Time Square killer. But again, aside from spouseal neglect and some bondage porn, there were no overt signs of this absolute monster Cottingham was or would become. And this is exactly what made Cottingham so terrible, his chameleon likability to mask and blend in.
Was he charismatic?
Oh, we don't know that, really heard him described as charismatic?
No?
No, no, he was utterly normal. And there's a good New York Times quote in here. Later I don't remember, I'll get to it. But the way they describe him, they're like, he just couldn't he can't be this because he's just so normal, Like.
He's like designed to be forgotten the heat, Yeah kind of yeah, yeah, Okay.
Now, According to Peter Vronsky, an author immersed in chronicling Cottingham's story and who conducted multiple interviews with him, Cottingham was like a lichenthrope, a werewolf, a shape shifter, a murderous creature driven by an insatiable bloodlust. During the day, Cottingham portrayed the image of a devoted family man living in Lodi, New Jersey. Pause side note. You know who else was from Lodi, New Jersey. Yeah, Glenn ENZELONEI Glen Danzig, Glenn Danzig, fucking Glenn Danzig, Misfits.
Oh Danzig people, I know the band names Glennzelone.
That's his real name, shore Glen Danzig. Lodi is where one of my all time favorite bands was formed, The Misfits. But anyway, Richard Cottingham from Lodi, New Jersey. During the day, he was seen as a loving husband and dedicated father to three children. Neighbors often spotted him throwing, you know, strolling through the streets with his kids through the neighborhood,
projecting this aura of politeness. As I mentioned, he worked at Blue Cross Blue Shield in Manhattan as a mainframe computer operator, which was a highly skilled, high paying job at the time. I do so outwardly, he's just this totally normal looking, polite, unassuming, successful family man, a suit and tie guy. But as night descended, Cottingham underwent a
sinister transformation and the werewolf emerged. Under the cover of night, Cottingham, the serial sexual murder or murderer, hunted his prey, and once caught, he would totally dominate and control the prey while inflicting as much pain and suffering as possible. The more his victims suffered, the more aroused Cottingham would get.
And sexual pleasure and violence such a dangerous combination. Yes, Now, what's really crazy is that Contingham's crimes went undetected for so long, meaning police just could not piece together who exactly was responsible for the bodies being left all over
New York and New Jersey. You see, back in those days, information sharing between police departments, especially between police departments in different states, was rudimentary at best and not existing at worst, and there were no centralized databases to pull information from. Friends of technology and techniques were limited in their capabilities,
and DNA analysis was not available yet. This posed a significant challenge in collecting and analyzing potential evidence left at crime scenes, hindering the identification of Cottingham as the Times Square killer. And like it or not, as much as police departments like to say they all play well together, in reality, they're all pretty tribal. This is our case, We're going to solve it that kind of thing.
Oh yeah, I can imagine it.
Yeah. And Cottingham knew this.
He's Bible high schools or something. It's excus Yeah.
And he knew this, and he was smart, and he was completely unassuming. In fact, the New York Daily News would describe Cottingham as quote too ridiculously normal to be a serial killer. End quote. That was the quote I was referring to. Yeah, too ridiculously normal. It's fantastically what a quote. It's such a great quote. Yet that's exactly
what he was. He's a serial killer. Another thing that made Cottingham difficult to detect is the fact that he hunted where he was most comfortable, New Jersey, where he grew up, and lived in New York where he worked. God, who does that sound like? That we covered recently, and let's not forget, as I mentioned earlier, due to politics and financial constraints at the time, the NYPD was already
severely strained. So now that we have some insight into who this asshole was, I'd like to go through each of Cottingham's known victims, and again keep in mind, when it comes to the victim count, Cottingham's exact count is unknown. He claims to have killed one hundred and more, and
some investigators believe him. Now, I should have maybe mentioned this earlier, but be sure to check the show notes, as I left tons of photos there so you could put faces to the names we're going to talk about the victims, Cottingham some other stuff in there, like to try to keep it interactive. Yeah yeah, yeah, So I left photos of Cottingham if you really want to see
what this fuck looks like. But it's believed that Cottingham killed his first victim, Nancy Chiava Vogel, a twenty nine year old married mother of two, on October twenty seventh, nineteen sixty seven. On that day, Nancy told her family and friends that she was going to go play bingo at a local church in Little Ferry, New Jersey, just across the river from Manhattan and Times Square. Now, as
you might guess, Vogel never returned home. It was later revealed that Nancy somehow crossed paths with Richard Cottingham, who was a resident of Little Ferry at the time. On October thirtieth, nineteen sixty seven, the day before Halloween, two young Scho school girls saw what they thought was a mannequin inside a park car. Turns out it was Nancy Vogel. Found in Ridgeville Park, New Jersey in the back seat of her own vehicle. She was nude, with her hands
and feet bound. Nancy had been severely beaten, and it was determined that she died by strangulation and blunt force trauma.
Was the rest of her injuries like predeath, the prosthumously. You know, I don't that, I don't know, I don't know post Yeah.
Police theorized Nancy knew her killer due to the fact that there were signs she was having sex in the vehicle, but there were no signs of rape, and because her clothes were found folded neatly under her on the seat of her car. Vogel's disappearance and subsequent murder remained unsolved for forty three years until Cottingham actually confessed to it in twenty.
Ten, even though by that time he was already saying, oh I did one hundred.
Yeah, huh. He finally confessed twenty ten. That's a long time not to know, truly, No, what happened to her? Your loved one. That's terrible. Yeah, And that's a theme throughout this story. Is there this massive gap of time where families don't know what the fuck is going on? You know. Next, we have Diane Cusick. In February of nineteen sixty eight, Cottingham murdered twenty three year old Diane Cusick,
a dance teacher and mother. On the night of February fifteenth, nineteen sixty eight, Cusick called her parents to tell them she was headed to the mall to purchase some new dance shoes, but tragically, as you could guess, she never returned home. On February sixteenth, nineteen sixty eight, so two days after Valentine's Day, Cusick was discovered beaten, raped and bound with duct tape in the backseat of her own car. Again.
This theme there right, which was located in the parking lot of Valley Streams Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream, New York. Authorities believe that after leaving her job at a children's dance school, and while making that stop at the mall to buy new dance shoes, Cottingham, impersonating a security guard or a cop, followed Diane to her car. He accused Cusick of theft, and then forcefully overpowered the
petite woman. This is the theory. The medical examiner's finding indicated that Diane suffered severe facial and head injuries and died from suffocation. Additionally, defensive wounds were observed on her hands. So she fought this piece of shit. Heartbreakingly, it was her own parents that found her car and her body in that mall parking lot. Cottingham didn't confess to this murder until twenty twenty two, just a few years ago. Wow, that family had to wait nearly fifty five years for closure.
Could you imagine't no offense but probably gone by that?
Yeah that I would guess Yeah.
By love logistics logic. Wow, Wow.
On this one's young. On July seventeenth, nineteen sixty eight, Cottingham ambushed and killed Jackie harp Aged, just thirteen, while she was walking home from her school's drum and bugle practice in Midland Park, New Jersey. When Cottingham couldn't persuade Jackie to get in the car with them, smart girl, he drove the car in front of Jackie like effectively cutting her off like you see in the movies. You know.
Yes.
Cottingham then got out of a car, dragged Jackie into some nearby bushes, and he killed her. She was badly beaten and had been strangled with the leather sling of the band flag she was carrying on her way home.
So like I improvised. Yeah, this one more I mean seemingly more improvised than the last two.
Yeah, he's using whatever she whatever bushes right opportunity.
Yeah.
Jackie Harp was Cottingham's youngest victim, and her murder went unsolved until twenty seventeen, when Cottingham confessed. From sixty eight to twenty seventeen unsolved. Next, we have Irene Blasse. She was just eighteen years old when Cottingham had abducted her from the Hackensack bus terminal in Hackensack, New Jersey, on April seventh, nineteen sixty nine. The next day, Irene's body was found laying face down in four feet of water in the Saddle River in Saddlebrook, New Jersey. She was
partially disrobed, she was beaten and bruised. She was stabbed once through the back into the right lung, and she was strangled with the chain of a crucifix she was wearing. Cottingham admitted to murdering Irene in twenty fourteen. On July fourteenth, nineteen sixty nine, Cottingham forcefully abducted a fifteen year old girl named Denise Flaska while she was on her way
to a friend's house in Emerson, New Jersey. Following morning, Denise's lifeless body was discovered in Saddlebrook, New Jersey like a piece of trash. Cottingham callously dumped Denise's body from his car alongside a road near a cemetery. Denise had also been strangled with the very chain of the crucifix she wore. Cottingham admitted to murdering Denise in twenty fourteen.
Okay, there's like the fifth time now where I'm losting to your patterns. Why is he admitting to these murders at different times since and his incarceration? What's with all these weird times?
Yeah? Part of this story, which I didn't really write in here, is there was a cop who kind of befriended him, okay later in life.
Like fake like to get information, yeah kind of thing. Maybe there was a friendship there, right, but you have to love what you hate, right good? Maybe?
Yeah, And he was convincing Cottingham to come clean on things.
I just took him a while, Yeah, so I just want took Wow, it must have been like pulling teeth. These are decades apart, some of these huge time gaps, huge time gaps. Because you give me one different Jay called you my brother.
For get my birthday and I forget my name.
I blame Risky, thank you. Now that's insane, though, that's a that's dedication. That's some ship.
Now he worked.
Yep, that's that's kudos to that, to that detective, I assume.
Wow.
Then second pattern is that I'm noticing that he picks younger people in New Jersey.
So far, so far, so far right.
I don't know all the folkn right, but it seems like so far theorizing a pattern, I guess. And that could be because see, we grew up there, right he did. I wonder if the familiarity of going to school in New Jersey compared to seeing girls his own age and getting older and sticking to that age group as he's growing, has to do with like he thinks of New York as you know, old women that he can take advantage of and at home they're in New York and at
home not so. I wonder if that's a thing based on these couples sing yeah and anyway, that's it.
No good, It's got you thinking it's got the gears turner, I like that exactly. Unfortunately. List continue continues. Lorraine McGraw was a twenty six year old mother of two whose nude body was discovered by some hikers in the old Camp Bluefields water Tower in Nayat, New York in March nineteen seventy. She'd been strangled to death. Not a lot I can find on this one, but Cottingham confessed to killing McGraw in twenty twenty two. Yeah, he remembers them
all twenty two. Do a lot of these guys do they think about it all the time?
Yeah? They must, You're right, I mean that's heady to get off.
Probably this one's fucked up too. Mary Beth Hine that they all fucked up. This one particularly gets me because she was sick. Mary Beth Hines a twenty one year old epileptic that suffered from Grand Mall seizures. She vanished on May fifth, nineteen seventy two, as she was traveling to a nearby dance being held specifically for epileptics. Since Mary Beth's epilepsy was rather bad with the Grand Mall seizears, she wasn't able to drive which is why she took
a bus to the dance, but she never arrived. She never came back home either. It's not exactly clear how, but Cottingham somehow intercepted Mary Beth while she was traveling to that dance, and sadly, her body was discovered five days later. On May tenth, nineteen seventy two, near a creek in Rockville Center, New York, which is on Long Island. Cottingham beat and strangled Marybeth to death before dumping her body from a Long Island bridge. Cottingham confessed to Mary
Beth's murder in twenty twenty two. Laverne Moy was a twenty three year old mother of two when Cottingham strangled her a death and then dumped her body off a bridge on Long Island. She was found in Long Island Creek on July twentieth, nineteen seventy two, very near where
Marybeth Hines's body was discovered a few months earlier. In fact, it's believed that Cottingham dumped LaVerne's body from the same Long Island bridge from which he dumped Marybeth Hines's body two months earlier, and just like Mary Beth Cottingham didn't cop to this murder until twenty twenty two.
Big year for him, I guess, guess.
So the Sheila Hyman, thirty three years old. She was found bludgeon and stamped, stabbed to death in her home in north Woodmere, New York, on July twentieth, nineteen seventy three. That morning, when her husband returned from a trip to the department store, he discovered his wife dead in the couple's master bathroom. None of the rooms outside of the bathroom showed evidence of a struggle. The thirty three year old mother of three suffered multiple lacerations to her skull,
a fractured jaw, and a lacerated juggerer vain. None of Sheila's neighbors reported anything strange around the time of her death, and the autopsy ruled out rape. Cottingham confessed to Shila Hyman's murder in twenty twenty two. Now, sadly, for nearly fifty years, Sheila's husband was considered the prime suspect in his wife's murder. That makes sense, Yeah, and this poor guy was haunted and hounded over this for decades. And that's how this poor guy went to his grave.
He died before Yep, his.
Name only being cleared after his death. Fucking tragic man.
Yeah, there's something about that. After you die that sucks. I mean, yeah, you found out what the world knows now, but also you died thinking the other way, right, Yeah, that sucks.
It's that's just it's terrible. That one means. It makes me have a drink.
Wait, it is a drink for the entry.
On December twenty seventh, nineteen seventy three, the body of eighteen year old Maria Amrita Rosatto Neevis was discovered in New Jersey in a weedy area of Jones Beach on the north side of Ocean Parkway in a busloading area right there. I was like, wait, wait what Ocean Parkway. It's New Jersey, not Long Island, New York. Like Rex Huerman. Maria was strangled to death, and park maintenance workers found her body covered in plastic bags and wrapped in a
gray blanket. Nevis was originally from Puerto Rico and lived in Manhattan prior to her murder, which went unsolved until twenty twenty two, when Cottingham finally confessed and just for you know, so you know in the show notes, Maria is the only victim I could not find a picture of just couldn't find it. So just so you know,
he's really ramping it up on this one. On August ninth, nineteen seventy four, in Ridgefield, New Jersey, teenagers Lorraine Kelly sixteen and mary Anne Prior seventeen were headed to the Jersey shore for the day, but needed to buy bathing suits first. The girls were too young to have a driver's license, so they did what tons of people were doing in the mid nineteen seventies. They decided to hitchhike. As you can imagine, fatal mistake.
Yeah yeah.
Cottingham happened to drive by and he picked up Lorrain and Marianne, and, under the threat of doing them serious harm if they didn't comply, he got them into a hotel room. Cottingham tied both girls to a bed, repeatedly raped them, tortured them, and beat them to a bloody pulp. It's believed he did this for a few days actually, and he eventually drowned both girls in the hotel bathtub.
Well five days after the girls went missing on August fourteenth, nineteen seventy four, their bodies were discovered at a construction site in Montvale, New Jersey. Cottingham finally admitted to killing the two teens in twenty twenty one, and it seems these are the only killings that Cottingham showed any signs of regret for committing. He does not like talking about this crime. For some reason, this one gets to him.
Wait, what do you mean for some reason? This is it's horrifying and more horrifying than the rest to the rest.
But like he's a serial killer. Days they love that shit.
It's days underage.
Oh, it's terrible.
I'm just saying it. It seems like to be a little worse.
So you're saying he even has a little conscience there.
He must, he must like this is by the one that gives them. If there's any crime so far out of all of his that uh maybe give them nightmares, might be this one.
It's possible. But wait, there's more.
Oh yeah, I know, I know.
Mariann Carr Maryann Carr. She was a married, twenty six year old X ray technician from Little Fairy, New Jersey. She was abducted on December fifteenth, nineteen seventy seven, from the Ledgewood Terrorist apartments where Cottingham had once lived, again familiarity.
Right that day.
Marie Anne was supposed to meet up with her mother in law, but she never showed up. Witnesses claimed to have seen Marianne having a confrontation with the man in the parking lot of her apartment complex, presumably her killer Cottingham, and that's where the abduction took place. Mary Anne was later frowned, brutally beaten, and strangled in the parking lot of a quality in motel in Haspruk Heights, New Jersey. She had severe ligature marks on her wrists and ankles,
indicating that she was likely handcuffed at some point. There were ligature marks around her neck and traces of adhesive tape around her mouth. She had also been sexually abused, cut and bitten all over her chest and legs, and she was beaten with a blunt object. Cottingham was convicted of murdering Marianne Carr in nineteen eighty two getting into
gold Star Territory. Now victim's name is Dede Goudzari. On December second, nineteen seventy nine, d D Gadzari, a twenty two year old Kuwaiti immigrant who worked as a prostitute, along with another unidentified woman, were brutally murdered by Richard Cottingham in a hotel room at the travel In Motor Hotel in Times Square. Employees noticed smoke pouring out from under the door of room four seventeen. The fire department
was called and when they entered the room. When they bust into the room, they found two bodies burning, one on each twin bed. When one of the firemen attempted mouth to mouth resuscitation on one of the bodies, he discovered that the body was headless. Cottenham beheaded Dede Gazari, cut off her hands and set her body on fire. He did the exact same thing to the other unidentified woman.
Cottenham loaded both women's heads and hands into a duffel bag and he nonchalantly walked out of the hotel room. And he walked through Times Square with his duffel bag. And get this, he was stopped by police for his own safety. Remember Times Square is fucked up at this time. So because Times Square at this time in history was notoriously dangerous, right we talked about this, especially at night.
So cop stopped him for his own safety, saying you get out of here, white guy in fucking time square duffel bag right now. Cottingham was convicted of both Deiti's murder and the Jane does Doeze murder the other woman in nineteen eighty four. Now, it is worth noting that D. D. Gazari's case gained attention in recent years due to her daughter, Jennifer Weiss, forming an unlikely alliance, a friendship with Richard Cottingham, in order to complete what Jennifer calls her quest. Now.
Growing up, Jennifer didn't know who her biological mother was, but she discovered Dede's name in old newspaper clippings, which led her to learn about who her mother was and her mother's horrific fate, and then to Cottingham. Now, you'd be right to ask how someone could befriend a man that beheaded their mother. I asked the same question. But as wife Weiss puts it, quote, everybody deserves to be forgiven.
The magnitude of what he did is unfathomable. But I became friends with Richard for my mother's sake and for
my quest end quote. You see, Jennifer's extraordinary good will is motivated by a tragic wish to find her mother's skull in that dingy motel room back in nineteen seventy nine, Cottingham packed Dedee's head and hands into that duffel bag and left the hotel and the macab mementos were never seen again, and to date, despite their odd friendship, Cottingham has never revealed to Weiss what he did with their mother's head. So fucking crazy. Now you can check the
show notes. You'll see a picture of Jennifer Weiss, Dede Gazzari's daughter messing around with Cottingham. Go check this picture out. The picture looks like an attractive woman strangling Santa Claus and clowning for the camera. That's exactly what it looks like, and it would be a disgusting picture if you get to understand the context what Jennifer's trying to do and why she's doing it. Befriend to try to find her
mother's skull. Hopefully Cottingham will show some humanity and give Jennifer the location of her mother's skull before he departs our sweet world. Because this guy looks like absolute shit these days.
Not doing well well, I imagine that, but also like, since it's exitus of confessions in twenty twenty two, and if he hasn't come out with it, it's possible he's I don't want to think naggine. That's not the right term. He's probably not. He's probably not telling her because he doesn't remember.
I could be too.
Here was like double shitty about it, like I don't remember, you waste all your time, or I love I love the attention to woman, right, And you know I was thinking that when you mentioned about this cop that prefriended him too, because you know, I'm not gonna say that. I'm not going to say. The obvious sentence that most people think of when people think of a serial killer or any kind of killer is that they're heartless and they deserve nothing and they don't feel anything. That's not true.
That's not true. There are people in there, not all of them, that all of them are social paths. Not all of them feel nothing, right, most of them feel something. And based on the way this guy doesn't want to talk about that one double murder, I would say he does feel something. He's not on the spectrum of complete psychopaths, so maybe he's so. I wouldn't say he's just doing
it to have attention. But he also every human needs attention, you know, So I don't I'm not saying I I'm not saying we shouldn't blame him, just saying I understand if that's what he's doing, and it's weird, but I think he forgot I feel like he would have said it by now because he's confessed to all this stuff. You know, we'll see.
I mean again, he is not doing well. Right, he's not doing well, so may.
Maybe death bad maybe death bed. Yeah, you're right, maybe.
Unfortunately, we still have more victims. Next, there's Valerie Anne Street, age nineteen, found dead on May fifth, nineteen eighty under a bed at a quality inn in haspruk Heites, New Jersey, the very same hotel Mariann Carr's body was found two years earlier in the parking lot. Valerie Street had checked into room one three two using the alias Shelley Dudley,
and she was accompanied by Cottingham. Later, when a maiden named Delia was cleaning up room one three two, she nearly tripped on an arm sticking out from under the bed. Delia had unknowingly walked into a horrific crime scene when she discovered Valerie's crumpled naked bodies stuffed underneath that nasty, overused bed. Valerie's body showed obvious signs of torture, including ligature marks on her throat, lacerations on her breasts, and
angry red cuff marks around her wrists. Valerie had recently been arrested for prostitution in Miami, and she was last seen being picked up by a man in New York City near Times Square. The discovery of Street's body at the Quality Inn marked a significant event in Cottingham's series of crimes because, unbeknownst to Cottingham, he left a fingerprint in that hotel room. Cottingham was convicted of murdering Valeriande Street in nineteen eighty one. Tell me how that is
a fear of mine. When I go to hotel rooms, I always look under the beds. I try to look under the bed because now there's usually because of stories, because of stories like this. Absolutely rely, yes.
Yes, oh yeah, I don't.
What was your what is your? So you never you don't fear it under the bed thing?
No.
I think the last time I genuinely had that fear was probably I was a child hoous Okay, I've never no legit probably the last time. That's how long. It's been so long that I can remember the last time. Well, I mean I've seen them in creepy stop before, like I guess your eyes, you know, being a creepy as scene for sure that I remember. I'm sure there are others.
I think Lights Out the movie had a few under the best stuff that was super creepy, but nothing like No, No, I don't have that as an adult.
No, I don't, you know, got me on it now though I always look under beds. Pet Cemetery, Jade Creed, Gauge Creed.
I mean, I'm not saying you don't mean the new one they want.
Jade Jade Creed. I don't know. That sounds like a stripper. That's the little boy's name was Gauge Creed. Gauge, Yeah, okay, pet Cemetery.
Name's a kid, Gauge. He reaches out, Hey, hey, can you read that yourself? Can you read yourself and tell me the number because it's the gauge set them.
Boo When that kid reaches out from under the bed and slices Fred Gwinn fucking Herman monster's ankle?
What is it?
Whatever?
Yeah? What is it with people being afraid of that? Why is that so horrifying of.
People to get your achilles cut? Why is that because it cripples you, like it takes out everything tendon.
But there's plenty of other way more horrible things to happen.
I don't know.
I'm just saying. I hear that. I hear that a lot. I hear people, Oh yeah, you're not the first, you're the fifty first five d and first remember what's that rob zombie movie?
That's one thousand corpses?
Thank you? And then Hostile I think Hostile was maker.
Did they cut the achilles in Hostile? Yes?
And people were like, oh I remember that scene. I'm like, bitch, I've seen worse on Tuesday. I've seen worse in this other movie and three other movies. What are you talking about? How is this a big It's a it's a nanosecond of a shot.
Yeh.
I'm like, how is this a thing? Come on, get your life thing?
For me, it was the combination of a child under the bed and then cutting that achilles.
Oh no, it's so bad, you're fine and you're a lost costume but no, okay, you're fine.
Got my birthday too?
It did.
On May fifteenth, nineteen eighty, the mutilated body of a twenty five year old prostitute named Jean Rayner was found at the Sayville Hotel on East twenty ninth Street in New York at eight o'clock that morning, Employees discovered Rayner's hotel room filled with smoke. Upon entering the room, it was discovered that Cottingham had unleashed unimaginable torment onto this helpless victim. Jean Rayner was found strangled, with her body
indicating signs of torture, assault, and mutilation. Rayner's throat had been mercilessly slit and shockingly, Cottingham removed both of her breasts and in a truly demented display, he left the detached breasts on the beds headboard for all to see, and before leaving the hotel room, Cottingham lit the mattress on fire. He was convicted of Rayner's murder in nineteen eighty four.
That's a hell of an escallation, by the way, from strangling in bushes, just sitting and dismembering.
On capitating, cutting off breasts, making a display.
And then comes from just not being conference along.
Brazen, yeah, or just you know, it just does like drugs. You know, hey, weed is not doing it anymore. So when you fucking slam this heroin.
I that's not howck that's not how.
But it's the escalation, right, It's just you need more and more more.
All the same. Like I'll try a little back okaine once a week and then it's every day. That's right. It's an escalation, that's more.
That's what this is. Yeah, he's bored. He needs more to get off because remember sex equals violins, violence equals sex, you know sort of thing too.
That yeah, for sure.
Now, in the early morning hours of May twenty second, nineteen eighty May twenty seconds, my birthday just.
Wasn't that like yesterday?
It was?
It was yesterday? Was yeah, yeah, almost two days.
I don't remember that going forward. Really it's May twenty third right now.
You know I have the ability to put that on my phone. I'm not doing it.
I know, I know. In the early morning hours of my birthday nineteen eighty, Cottingham picked up eighteen year old Leslie and Odell Shay.
You were eighteen at that time too.
Shut up and she was soliciting sex on the corner of Lexington Avenue and twenty fifth Street in Manhattan. Cottingham and O'Dell negotiated money for sex, but they decided to go out for some drinks first, and as O'Dell loosened up, she confided in Cottingham that she was in a really bad situation with her piece of shit pimp and that
she desperately wanted out of her current situation. Now. Cottingham, playing the role of someone wants to help a woman in distress, offered to drive Odell out of New York, get her on a bus, and help her get back home to her hometown of Olympia, Washington. Little did Leslie Odell know that the monster she ran into would turn out to be ten times worse than her piece of
shit pimp. Right now before taking her to the bus station, but he never intended to do in the first place, Cottingham asked Leslie if she would you mind completing our transaction first before I take you to the bus station. It was such a superman, sayavior this guy right? Leslie agrees, So around Dawn, Richard Cottingham and Leslie Odell checked into the same Hasbrokite's quality in where Cottingham had left Valerieenne
Street and Marianne Carr's bodies in the past. Talk about confidence, he's returning the scene in the crime for the third time.
Well he's not getting caught.
Why wouldn't he exactly?
And also familiarity. It's big with this guy, more than most, maybe even.
Now. Once the two were inside Room one point seventeen, Cottingham offered to give Leslie a massage, and she agreed, got onto the bed and rolled onto her stomach, awaiting a little pampering. Right, Cottingham straddled her back and immediately he drew a knife and stuck it to her throat. He slapped a pair of handcuffs on her wrists and then pulled out a gun and pointed at her while calling her a whore and saying you have to take it the other girls did. You have to take it too, whore,
and you have to be punished. Then he began torturing her, slicing her with a knife, beating her with a belt, and he nearly bit off one of her nipples. Jesus, But luckily Leslie was a fighter and at one point when one of her hands was freed from the handcuffs. Leslie lunged for the gun and tried to shoot cootting him. But the gun was a fucking prop. It was a fake.
So Leslie began to shout, oh my god, no, Oh my god, no, which drew the attention of a hotel worker, because, believe me, the hotel staff were already uneasy and on high alert, especially hotels. You know, all these murderers on beds, on fire and shed and right, they're on high alert because of these previous murders of Marianne Carr and Valerienne Street. Right. So the hotel's assistant manager began banging on that door,
and Leslie opened up the door just a bit. She was able to, but the chain lock was still on, so she opened the door just enough to sneak her hand through, allowing her to make some hand signals to the manager that something was wrong, even though out loud she was saying everything was okay. The manager picked up on Leslie's nonverbal cues and the police were called. Cottingham
knew this was bad. He had to get the fuck out of Dodge, so he dressed in his cute little businessman's suit with a fake gun in one hand and a briefcase like attash Shay case in the other. Cottingham fled down the hallway, but he was quickly apprehended by a shotgun wielding cop.
And that's it.
With that, the Times Square killer's reign of terror ended. Once the police discovered what was in his Attashee case handcuffs, black garbage bags, a leather gag, slave collars, a switchblade, knife, ankle cuffs, replica pistols, and a stockpile of prescription pills. The cops knew they finally had their man.
Now.
It didn't take long for a search warrant to be issued for Richard Cottingham's Lodine, New Jersey home, and police executed a meticulous search of the property. The search led investigators to a locked basement where a startling array of items were discovered handcuffs, explicit artwork, a leather gag, more slave collars, and switche blade. None of these things are illegal to own, of course, nor are the indicative of
a serial killer. However, police also found a trophy room, a room Cottingham always prohibited his wife and kids from.
Entering this trophy room with.
His sick man cave. Now, this trophy room contained all sorts of artifacts belonging to murdered women. A lot of killers keep trophies so they could kind of relive that excitement of their nasty crimes at a later time and relive them again and again and again. In Cottingham, he was no different. Now. It was the discovery of this trophy room that hammered the file nail, the final nail in Cottingham's coffin, and the public could finally put a
face to the time Square killer, the monster. Between nineteen eighty one and nineteen eighty four, Richard Cottingham was charged with murder, kidnapping, and sexual assault in connection with five different women, two in New Jersey and three in New York. That would be Valerie Street, Mary Anne Carr, Ddie Gazari, Gene Rayner, and the unidentified Jane Doe, found beheaded and
burnt in the hotel room. With all said and done, after his initial convictions back in the early eighties, coupled with his confessions decades later, including a confession I just read about from March twenty twenty three, where Cottingham confessed to killing a seventeen year old girl named mary Anne Della Sala in Hackensack, New Jersey, in January sixty seven, which makes Dela Sala Cottingham's actual earliest victim, not Nancy
Shieva Vogel, who murdered in October of sixty seven. Plus his convictions on non murder charges, rape, sexual assault, shit like that, so all in Conningham was given multiple multiple life sentence By my account, he's in for well over three hundred years. And he never really gave a reason as to why he committed his crimes. He told investigators that he enjoyed getting away with his horrible crimes each time he did that. He liked the thrill of literally
getting away with murder. That and he once simply said that he has a problem with women. Well, I mean, it's it. That's what gets him off. I mean, is this, why is this? There's no brime, there's no grand reason. No, that's all he's given over the years.
Yeah, that's insane. This is what makes him come. This is how that's how most of these guys are. That's all it is. You know, obviously he stemmed from a lot of shit and all that. Yeah, you can keep going digging that rabbit hole. But that's why it starts and end in a lot of ways, you know, like there's no real reason. It's not it's no hate to the world that betrays them, Like, no, it's just something like this happens.
People want a reason, they want a.
A reason beyond the obvious that he gets off on it. That's it. That's it, that's all. It's like whatever. Yeah, no, I'm just saying. I'm not saying I'm fine with that reasoning. But it makes sense that that's the main reason. Like what else could it be, Like it will try hard to not kill someone, Yeah, God forbid do that every day? Knock. I was gonna say something to that, you know what that first murder, I don't remember anymore of the details,
and that you don't have to go back. But it did seem I don't say it seemed practice, but it didn't feel like it's first. Yeah, it probably I forgot to mention that actually it probably wasn't. That makes sense, No, I mean like maybe I don't know.
This wasn't because we just find what I'm saying earlier.
When you first told it, I'm like, yeah, it didn't seem like a first because he does a few car ones. Then he does a few impromptu opportunities to type ones where they're using their own straps on street doesn't matter. And he finds out we can get away with so fast, and the bus stops and ship and it's like, how far can I go? Can I behead them? Can I put them on fire? Can I do any? Hotels? And just keep doing it?
Yeah, the same place.
Also like, I'm surprised I took this many. I mean at least a third for sure. Motel murder, hotel motel murder that no one heard anything, gave us shit, you know before that seems like, yeah.
How do you behead someone and no one hears it in the hotel? It's fucking crazy.
How how indeed?
Well, you know these kind of hotels, people they stick to themselves. There are a lot of the people there.
I understand that anonymity is a big thing.
They want their animity exactly.
I know that's a big thing.
But you would, I know, I know. But we're thinking about rational took.
From a slit on the door, knock her, screaming her head off all that time.
You know, that's what triggered him to come.
Yeah, but that's still she needed to do that. No, I won't want to meet late, right, But no, it's crazy. I'm not saying I think we're a little better about that now. I would hope. I don't know, but that's crazy. That's crazy.
I'm to the end here now. After one of his early trials, cotting Him tried to kill himself by slicing his wrists with broken glass from his eyeglasses actually so he focus on live, tried to kill himself, and while in prison, he attempted suicide again by trying to ode on medication. I think it was antidepressants. Okay, Now today, Richard Cottingham, he's still alive. He's seventy eight years old, he's in very poor health, and he has absolutely no
possibility of parole. Well, no held die in prison and good, you know, good riddance when it finally happens.
Fuck this guy, Yeah, okay, I wonder So obviously the police were looking for this cereal, but they only knew and probably were only chasing a guy who killed two well sorry, who committed two crimes with three people because he killed two it at once. But like these hotel specific fire decapitation type, that's when people probably. I mean
authorities actually took notice. No way anybody was looking for him and those other previous murders, because strangulation seems to be like top tier reason to kill someone to begin with.
Yeah, there's there's really you know, and.
Also not connecting the New Jersey murders either. All that, all that must have been so surprising, like, oh shit, this guy's been killing from right.
Fuck. There's never an indication that early on they thought were dealing with a serial killer, right.
I wonder if they were thinking that, well, we taught him before we killed so many, Like no pre killed many. You just didn't know about it.
There's more to write, he says, one hundred some investigators believe. I don't know if it's that high. I think I definitely think there's more. I definitely think there's more that we don't about.
Yeah, I wouldn't say one hundred either. I think if there's more.
It could be a you know, again, going to New York.
I know, I know that there was a.
Lot of desperation, a lot of people down and out.
I give him another dozen one.
There could have been a lot of easy pickings, man, which is really sad, But it could be that high. Who knows he this was a fucking sick, deranged individual who blended in perfectly right.
Because I'm ridiculously normal.
He was right the quote no one saw this guy CD, you know, which is terrifying. It's fucking terrifying.
Even the way he was a serial killer. He was a ridiculously normal serial killer.
No, I don't think he was.
No, he wasn't saying a very like toophy room.
You know.
Oh but when it gets to decat familiar cutting off the ball, I meant, like, what gets them there?
I see, you know, I guess so that's that's the that's the Times Square killer. But Richard ctting him the Torso killer?
Was he called that before he was caught, like a newspaper killer.
I don't believe. So that came after the fact, once he started piecing everything together. Yeah, crazy, though.
Not many Times Score killings, so as you imagine, no to.
Be nicknamed the Time Square killing. So I mean, uh final thoughts.
Uh No, No, I think I said it. I think I gave my pH any anything particular with you, like, I'm good.
I need to I need to go rinse off. This is makes me feel dirty talking about this stuff. I'm good, Oscar, take us home, you beautiful man, oh, thank you? And TikTok or Instagram and seeing these whiskey bottles in the shape of like Jaws or Jack Torrens or there was another one. Have you seen him?
No, I get nothing alcohol related.
Katie got me the Jaws one for my birthday?
And was your birthday recently?
Yeah? Yesterday?
Is it yesterday?
Ready?
Yeah, I'm sorry, I have your birthday. I didn't know that. But then, to be fair, I don't think i've ever have I ever celebrated your birthday? Probably on the day, yeah, I don't know.
Oh, maybe not.
On the day. You know, I usually rely on in the old days, I would rely on Facebook.
Oh you don't go on Facebook, and.
I don't do it anymore. So I don't know anybody's birthday no more, you know. By the way, I recommend I don't know if you're a fan, but I recommend the New Final Destination.
I really want to see it.
It's really fun.
I like them all.
It's really good. I do like them all too. They're all on on HBO right now, all five or six whatever. So this new was good, Yeah, very good, very cool. They do a spin on the whole thing. They have their own kind of take on it, but they stay within the universe. Really yeah, I kind of agree with that. Pretty two or three, pretty gruesome kills. I'm like, oh shit, yeah that's cool. A whole head gets fucking smashed.
I think one of the coolest kills I've seen lately was in that Horrible movie where.
It was like, from Jason's point of view, you're talking yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're talking about the violent nature.
Yeah. That was probably the coolest kill I've seen lately.
Yeah, that was cool.
Are you recording right now?
Yeah?
The voices sound fine, so.
Words uh yeah, yeah, you so fine. I would have said it.
Does sound okay, yeah, alright, cool.
He's not good what I'm gonna say. Yeah, So, I really liked it. I do highly recommend. It's not like my favorite or anything, but it's it's up there. Man, It's like two or three. It's really good. Pretty good. Made me think of a lot.
Yeah, maybe one.
I we watched the whole series and they did, so that was one. I've been playing. It's a badass new game, but it's a horror so I don't know if you care. Since I've been playing this puzzle game and addicted to it. Clearly, it's a puzzle game where you're an heir to an inheritance a mansion or in the states as sure in the state, and the whole time you're playing is that you're part of the conditions of the inheritance if you want it. Is that you have to explore this massive house.
But every time, every day is different. Every day when you open a new door, it's going to be a different room one of three possibilities that you can choose. You basically lay out the mansion as you go, and it's like each room will have a puzzle sometimes, and there's grander puzzles overall that you have to figure out and solve. There's a lot of history about the family and stuff. A lot of interesting puzzles too, Like there's
a boiler room. You have to connect to power of this thing, to power of that room.
Like escape room almost.
Yeah, it is escape room mansion style.
That's cool.
Yeah, it's kind of fun. I've been addicted. Like, dude, I just figured out how to drain the reservoir. I'm like, I can't wait to explore that. I almost didn't come. And there's a real hustle game down there, the taxi hustle game. It's crazy, really, it must be how women feel being cat called. I felt like, Jesus, I'm a tempt taken.
We have a tax Did you speak Spanish pretty much whole time you're down there? Or did you speak No?
And the resort not very often? I mean to the employee is sure when I was at their shop, so yeah, of course, but like in general, no, never speaks English.
Yeah.
So all white people, different types of white people.
When you talk to the workers shoppenders and you spoke their language, were they more cool with you? Did they give you deals or anything?
Or they're just like they seem nicer about it. Yeah, overall, but not not again any special treatment that I noticed, You know, they just care if you tip them one of I guess, right, that's really it.
I thought maybe they'd be like one of us, one of us.
No, I don't think so. I don't think so. But I also didn't notice a lot of the Hispanics that were there on vacation either. But that makes sense. I guess why would they go there the.
Bealification in the journey or something.
But also we do vacation you went to New Orleans all the time, but that's in their own country, so it's not like out of the realm of possibility, right right. But overall, No, I didn't notice many No and again special treatment. I made jokes with us howel girls every once in a while. No, not that.
Why was it expecting like these crazy sex compaid stories with you?
No, I felt like and not that I had to be tamed, but I just never I never felt it. Like I usually go with a vibe and then if I don't feel it, I don't do anything. If I feel it, I'll do something.
You know.
That's really how it work, all right, right, Yeah, okay, did not see many opportunities. A lot of people with families are also. I wasn't like only adults, they were only adult area, sure, like at night or whatever.
But like and who got married cloud?
No greg Remergreg? Yeah you played played poker with him?
Or like thirty years ago.
He got married? Good to the girlfriend he had thirty years ago? Same girl? Okay, yeah, good, good for that. Yeah, and Raf went yeah he was the best man.
Was he really nice? And he didn't even have you stand up? Have me? Yeah? Why groomsman? You've known him for thirty years.
Oh no, we're not friends like that really, but you went to his wedding like a destination with I mean, well, I'm friends like that. I'm like, oh, like, way to give me? Like this sucks like flirting with them.
They won't care.
No, well I care?
Well, good, that's good.
I wouldn't before. I didn't know for a long time, but I do now, you know, And it's an overall thing, like it's it's too close to fucking where I eat, you know, I mean, like you know they know people that I know. You know, it's a complete stranger. I would never know that. Why would I care? But like you know, there's limits. It's never good.
It's not it's not.
It's more of a scay in a fun way, but it's not good.
Say you should come and walking with us tomorrow.
I would love to. I need to work. I need to make money. If I make a certain amount, I would love to come.
Up because it's you know, for my birthday and.
All for your birthday.
Yeah. Yeah, Angelo Bono and Kenneth Angelo Bono Junior. Let's stop market, can.
You oh for real?
Yeah?
Okay, I hate that guy's name. You don't have to say it. Where do I start blah?
What would you say blassy?
It's the thing is that it's because in English language we write different a's all over the place.
And again it does we don't know.
We don't explain those differences. Other languages they do try to explain, uh.
Ah, you know blasse blass.
Blast blah blast blah. I don't think it's bla.
B l A s E mark above the e. Does it mean.
Blasse blasse blasse blass.
We're gonna say, I read blasse.
Yeah, maybe like that done. But that's the thing that other you know, other languages do try to explain their differences on those bowels, but we don't.
Figure it out exactly.
That's why no one likes her language either.
Bloss. We're can say blass right, yeah, bos.
Bloss.
Have you seen this new series called yeah, called Rogan.
The Studio, the Studio. Yeah, I've heard great things. I'm gonna start it. I'm gonna start it. I just haven't seen it.
I resisted because I don't like that Rogan crew.
Like oh, I thought you were gonna say you don't like movies about movies.
Like Seth Rogan James Franco, Dave Franco, like all that little that click that click. I don't get into them, but this is it's a pretty good show.
So you know, like knocked up or this is the end, or.
Of course I do. I just don't want to like it.
You're resistance even though you like it.
Yeah, this show is good.
I wonder if it's what's the equivalent of that. It's like, it's like admitting that you like all American rejects, but you don't want to say it all out right. Have you heard? Okay, so everyone's been talking to me about this. I saw on TikTok that they did a surprise literally surprised out of the blue concert and someone's backyard in Chicago. No way, not in Chicago, but like somewhere close to Chicago. Yeah, like less than two weeks ago. Wow, And this was
on my TikTok. I saw one huge. Yeah they're huge. I know they're huge. Wha yeah, I mean still just be whatever. They're huge. I know that. I saw my feed. I you order right away. I don't care for sh about them. I never liked them, but I swear to God, my brother fucking comes up to me or my old Starbucks employee friends come up to me. They're like, like, you see this video about I don't know, fuck about the American bea check. I'm like, what makes you think
this is news worthy to me? So that's why I had it in my head? And and like why the fuck?
Who the like?
Never bring me this week ass new ship again? Sorry yelling by the third person, that third person, Sorry for that person. The third time I get told, I'm like, motherfucker if you start getting angry at people for no reason, They're like, I just I just want to tell you they keep to Chicago.
Who g is a fuck?
Who comes to Chicago?
Chicago too?
Yeah?
And fuck you?
Yeah, it's funny. I thought it was like, oh man, that guy. They sound like every other band from that era too. I can't tell them apart, and I really can't tell. Most of them are nothing. You meet You're right playing White T's They sound the same that picked that band at this small Ville intro. They'll frame to me. Many kept saying like, did they do that song from Smallville? But like no, that was this band, like fucking the same bro, they looked funk, sound the same, same three
chords or whatever. It's nonsense anarchy.
Speaking of that, there's a there's a cool kind of little punkish kind of bar in Milwaukee, kind of down the street from Shakers. Have you gone to Shakers with us? The Haunted place?
I haven't. The only Milwaukee I've been with you is is Fither Fister Fister. That's the only time I've been Tomorrow, Okay, So what was.
A cool little punk bar they got pool table ship Yeah, I think it's Feiserve Stadium. Okay, that's what you're thinking of. So I'm gonna start over with Valiant Valerie and Street
Valerie on the Street, Valerie an Street, I know, okay, right, do you