Welcome to the one hundred and fifty seventh episode of the Supernatural Occurrent Studies podcast.
So Suspiciously Paranormal.
My name is Jason Knight, host of the show That with Me as always.
Is Oscar, spector Esquire.
Producer extraordinaire and podcast co host Oscar. How the hell have you been, man, it's been a while since we've gotten together.
I've been hellish.
HELLI I could relate me too. Yeah, everything is hellish. And it's not just because it's the time of the season.
That's true. It is the time it is. I mean it's my favorite time of the year.
It is for me as well, obviously.
I mean show we season, yes, and not just because of the show, but also because I love that. I didn't love it, I wouldn't be doing the show, you know.
Right, yeah exactly. But for me, you know, even though I love the spooky stuff. I love Halloween, I love the changing the season, love decorating the house, love spooky shit, I also fucking love Christmas. Man, Like I'm a.
Oh, yeah, you're a big Christmas guy.
Christmas time, man, No, you never you never have been. It's weird the way I'm sitting today with my mic We had to rearrange things, so I'm trying not to look away from my Micah, but I'm also trying to maintain not contact with you. And this feels really weird. That's very unnatural.
You sacrifice a lot for our fans.
We do.
You see a goddamn creak in my neck for you guys, right right right, So here we are October, happy early Halloween listeners. What's been new with you?
Man?
What's going on?
Did we have a pre thing on this? I don't remember what we talked about as far as what we had for this opening, so I know what I have for the opening, okay, because I'm like, did I have one? Because I don't think I have one.
I don't remember you saying you had something for the opening. You usually pulled something out of your hat.
I'm usually good at that. But since we preapproved something or pre not preapproved, but we talked about it in advance, I didn't think I had to think of one. So I'm trying to think of one, and I'm like, I was I supposed to think of something? Because my life is shit, it's nothing. I had nothing going on, nothing going on, jay, nothing of value of substance of a vapor of substance.
No vapes, no vapors, no vapors. Well, I mean I have. So we were talking off the mics that it's been about two months since we got together. We had some stuff pre recorded, right right, So I think I haven't talked about this, or I could just mention that. You know, we had a wonderful cruise vacation in late July going into August. Took my family on an eight day cruse. We went to Dominican Republic, who went to San Juan, Puerto Rico. We went to Saint Thomas and Saint Martine
and it was gorgeous, great time with the family. We're pretty much gone all of July on a long month trip.
Nice. So that was that was that long?
That was great. Yeah, we're gone pretty much all of July, so that was fantastic. I can't wait to be able to do it again. We're big cruisers in this family. Now we got the kids into it. So yeah, that's kind of any any bruise, any bruising from all that cruiser cruising for a b This is fucking nineteen eighty seven, Hey, it's your era. Wow, Wow, drinking a little bit, a little bit, speaking of the Dominican Republic. I picked up this bottle we're drinking right now. It's Tessoo, and I
found out that means treasure. Testro it means treasure. Yeah, it's a whiskey single mall whiskey from Punta Kana, from the mindic In Republic and.
Where all the great dictatorships are from. Are they No, I'm I'm paying glib terrible there or it was?
Or is it? It is very depressed economically, but good, good, good you go to the beaches though you would never know, but yeah, good, the whiskey is very good. I believe it was soaked and or aged in rum casks. So uh yeah, did I say that right?
Ye?
I mean that's better?
Okay, Yeah. I don't know if you ever find yourself in the Dominican Republic, your dr.
If you wake up one day, you're like, where the fuck am I? And like you're in a dr bitch? Oh okay, can I get some of this whiskey?
Yeah? Thought so?
And then call nine one one or whatever for one one whatever they have there.
I don't even know if they have anything there.
They may not.
I think you just go out the middle of the street and you yell.
I think I love that.
It's a lot of it's very impoverished.
Don't ye help yelp with fire.
That's a good point. That's good because someone's out there yelling. I don't give a fuck you yell fire. I'm like, shit, is that my shit on fire? So I'm gonna go out and look. Yes, uh so, yeah, so I had that beautiful cruise. Now you know, of course, get back to reality. Sucks. Job still sucks. So whether than that, everyone's healthy, everyone's happy, everyone's doing good. Excited for for October, Excited for Halloween season, Excited for this episode. It's a
two parter. Oh coming at you famous two the famous two parts. Yes, yes, yeah, I'm so. We're releasing this first episode now early October. We'll just say yeah, and then the second will be on November first, All Souls Day, so something to look forward to. There. Did you think of anything else yet?
No? No, isn't that All Saints Day?
I'll see. I think it's used interchangeably.
I I never heard all souls Yeah, my first time hearing he's my first time saying attention to that, because I never I don't remember ever hearing.
That should we edit this out?
Not sure? No, I wouldn't even get in there. You know, it's a homelessness.
Sake by Catholic ass should know this. I believe I thought it was interchangeable, all souls in all saints. I believe it's November first.
I was thought of like an Irish thing.
No, no, Catholic thing.
No, I'm sure I thought that was the combination.
Oh no, no, no, no, I don't.
Know why I thought that.
I don't either, But it's okay because we're drinking whiskey.
But I'm also a heathen, so I don't care if I get accuracies and religious stuff.
Is it how you identify as a heathen?
Yeah?
Really no? Oh I have heathen friends. That's why I'm asking.
I mean, what is technically a heathen?
Oh dude, I'm not getting into this. Oh why not, Minister sal Sal Surverio. He's been on the episode a few a few times.
Doesn't mean I remember. I remember how we looked like.
Yeah, yeah, I'm not even I'm not gonna do it because I'm not gonna butcher it and get a bunch of people pistol off at me. Why look up heathenism.
Oh, I see your pay Yeah, got it. Okay, See, I was thinking of like just like uh no, in the sense like like a criminal, like a sinner, Like I'm just a sinner. He even, I got you not like not a technical book accurate? Correct. He then understood, which I don't know what it still means. I'm getting a little gist by your reaction, but I don't actually meant that. I meant like in a sense like oh, an atheist or agnostic, not a real person to the Catholic guys.
Got it, Okay, big difference, big difference. I mean I didn't want to get into and and uh, I don't know, disrespect their religion for me not knowing enough about it and trying to speak.
He then, at the very least probably works multiple ways. He then doesn't just mean whatever you're afraid of disrespecting as your friend to your friend, but it also could mean something else. It's like, you know, other words I can't think of right now.
Yeah, no, no, I understand now how you were using the word because I felt you meant as a hen doesn't mean that system of beliefs, right, He even believes, Okay, got.
It, it's got to be that it means something a little more like hard than that.
Yeah, I got all heavy with it.
Sorry, No, it's just this is a great that on point.
Now I thought that point. Yes, So yeah, then if if we got nothing else, I say.
We every won't go watch the Substance in theaters.
Now, that Substance movie. Oh that's what Demi Moore?
Yeah, and Margaret Crawley.
I don't know who that is.
If you see her face, you'd be like, I know, they're ah, gotcha, she's getting big now though you said it was pretty hardcore, pretty hardcore, pretty great. Body horror really good.
I like body horror movies. I do. Yeah, it's okay. And Demi Moore coming back, coming back strong, apparently strong, good for her man, good for her well. I mean, you know, before we get into us, check out the website Chicago Ghost podcast dot com, leave us a message at eight seven two five two nine zero seven six seven. That's eight seven two five two nine zero seven sixty seven. Uh and uh, I guess that's it.
Yeah, let's stick, let's think about let's take a break.
Listeners were back. So this is really strange. We're sitting here down in my basement. The way we're configured or set up. I am facing the direction in which I could see my staircase coming down into the basement down here, and you're kind of sitting turned where you could see that staircase sort of peripherally. Yeah.
Well, when I kind of move around, you know, because I kind of I can't be still, I swiveled a lot. Yeah, so I'm stilling to ride. I can see it in my periphery, but no, not directly.
Not directly right right, So we went to break We're kind of just relaxing, having a few SIPs of whiskey and stuff, talking, and all of a sudden I stopped, looked, and I swore there was someone standing at the base of my basement stairs. I thought it was my son, Nico, who's been in bed for almost two hours now. But no one's home, you know, he could maybe get up and run around.
He's a little rescali.
Yeah, I shouldn't say no one's home, no one's upstairs, so he could jump out, run around, kind of do his thing. But no, no, it wasn't him. And then when I said that, you said, Okay, I'm not crazy. It's not me.
It's not just me. I did say it offhand, but yeah, I did say that. Why because earlier before you noticed something on the stairs, I thought I felt someone was behind me, not like directly behind, not like breathing down my neck, but like someone over there. And when I went to get my drink will be here, I did look over to see if there was something over there. It was that strong that you had to enough to
just to see. And I saw no one. And I didn't think about it again because weird shit happens all the time here in general, so like I didn't question it too much. And then you said something after that, I'm like, okay, what was I mean?
Then?
Yeah?
That was that was pretty strange. And of course I ran over there. Nico's not down here. No one came down to the door. No, But I didn't hear feet on the stairs.
Nothing, but even the lessons working their feet.
Right, you'd hear the feet upstairs exactly on the mics. But uh, that was that was strange. It was gray. It was more gray color. Yeah, so I don't I don't know what the fuck that was.
Man.
Yeah, considering tonight's topic, that's kind of freaking me out a little bit.
Good I definitely. You've also had other weird stuff happened here, and.
Lots of weird stuff happens here.
So go back. We've done it on the show too. It's happened about it.
Yeah, yep, I think it's happened on the show. It's happened on the show. We were we were recording an episode about Zach and Addy. Do you remember the couple from New Orleans the light thing? And we had to we had to stop recording because so much shit was happening, like got freaked out. Remember the security system was going.
I remember that now that dude.
It's out there. Listeners. I don't remember what number it is, but go back and listen the whole thing. It's an episode called not Zach and Atty because we were supposed not episode x Y z Zach and Addy. Listen. It says, listen to this episode whatever, go back. It was fucking freaky ship.
So that's cool.
That's continuing. I guess. I don't know.
When people ask me like, oh, you guys have I'm like no, I never think of any like oh yeah, sure, I never think of these stories. I was then that you were involved in.
I uh well, so yeah, so that happened, like, we got to jump back on the mics, we got to talk about this. So anyway, the lights are turned down low mm hm, the ceremonial candles lit, and the drinks are flowing. Let's hopefully get through this episode well, Oscer.
The days are shorter, the nights are longer and cooler, the leaves are falling, and the air is filled with the smells of the changing season, almost a cinnamoni crispness at least here in the Midwest anyway, and most importantly, it's Halloween season, and for the Halloween season, I have a really spooky topic for you.
Now.
This is going to be a two part episode covering the fascinating ancient right of exorcism. Now tonight. In part one, we'll cover the history of the right of exorcism as well as the different types of exorcisms. We'll also cover the real accepted signs of bonafide demonic possession as well as the different stages of demonic possession. And we'll have some other little tidbits and cool stories in there as well. But overall, these topics, those topics right there gave me
plenty of material for a full episode. Which is why in the next episode, Exorcisms Part two, we'll focus on actual cases of possession cases that were so extreme they had to be escalated beyond a dioceses local exorcist and instead be brought all the way up to the Pope himself. Now, these types of cases are incredibly rare, but they do exist. So that's what we're going to focus on in part two. Right, all right, So exorcisms, I think a great topic for the Halloween season.
I've been going to talk about extra crisp exorcists.
Do you know how hard I was practicing the cinnamoni crispness? Yeah, you got it, though I didn't get it one take, Jay.
I really was. I was so ready to pounce on you. There's one of you and laugh at you, and you feel like shit.
Got right through. It's the Dominican whiskey man must be. Now, before we get any further, I want to be clear. In this episode and the next, we're focusing on Christianity slash Catholicism and exorcism. Believe it or not, the Vatican requires that each diocese across the world have a specially trained priest at the ready to diagnose demonic possession and
perform exorcisms. And for you lay people out there, the diocese is a geographical area that is under the care of a bishop, and the diocese contains a number of parishes, each of which is overseen by a priest, and those priests answer to the diocese bishop.
Right, kind of like a county and as a co area. You think of the different subsets of how states work in our country.
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So the Vatican demands that each diocese have a priest trained as an exorcist and be ready to battle it out with the demonic whenever the need arises. That's how seriously Catholics take this stuff now.
Even though the practice of exercising demons is not exclusive to Catholicism, as all major religions and cultures have their own methods and beliefs about casting out demons, in the Western imagination, exorcism is almost always associated with Catholicism, and for the most part we have Hollywood to think for that.
Movies like The Right, The Exorcism of Emily Rose, The Exorcism of Ronald Doe, The Conjuring, and of course my favorite, William Friedkin's nineteen seventy three masterpiece The Exorcist, among many
other exorcist based films. These have all shaped the way we viewed the top of it of exorcism and the belief that the practice exorcism is purely a Catholic thing when it isn't, and actually it is the movie The Exorcist that's pretty much the source or the channel of much of our culture's awareness of and ideas about possession
and exorcism. Those images that come to mind when the topic of exorcism is brought up vile, violent, blasphemous demons, spinning heads, superhuman strength, supernatural powers, projectile vomit, an old priest and a young priest, all from The Exorcist right now. Ironically, though, when The Exorcist came out back in nineteen seventy three, as horrifying and scandalous as it was, it did help
to win converts for the Catholic faith. People were so terrified by the movie and for their mortal souls that Catholic churches around the country began receiving waves of inquiries from people who believed that they or their friends or loved ones were actually possessed by demons and Catholic Church ultimately saw an uptick in church attendance and converts to the Catholic faith after The Exorcist was released.
Right this, You know, this also connects to our previous episode. We talked about the Miami School and how that was a fever, pitch nightmare fuel from movies like the artistays a few years before it kind of fueling that kind of behavior as a as a theory anyway, and how that probably helped, you know, no people in that.
School fuel that whatever happened in that school, absolutely so. Like I said, the belief that evil spirits can possess man and thus the need for exorcisms isn't exclusive to Catholicism. In fact, these beliefs predate Catholicism by thousands of years.
Now.
Scholars agree that Christianity and Catholicism is about two thousand years old, but it's not the oldest monotheistic religion, or of religion that worships only one God. It's not the oldest. The oldest known monotheistic religion, Zoastrianism, believed in demons and exorcism over three thousand years ago. Ancient Mesopotamians also held
these beliefs. As did the ancient Hindus. And here we're talking as far back as five thousand plus years b C. So again, this stuff is deep rooted, its universal, and its ancient. Since we're sticking with the Catholic Christian theme for these episodes, we should probably start by diving into the Bible, because it's within the Bible, in both the Old Testament and the New that we find numerous references to exorcisms and to Jesus Christ being the first exorcist.
For example, in Matthew chapter eight, verses twenty eight to thirty four, Jesus famously drives the legion to demons out of two men and into a herd of pigs, and then those pigs run themselves off of a cliff in the ocean, and they drowned in the sea. In Luke chapter eleven, verse fourteen, Jesus cats out a mute demon from a man, and when the man is free from
the demon, he begins to speak and praise Jesus. There's Mark chapter sixteen, verse nine, which talks about Jesus casting out seven demons from Mary Magdalen, presumably one demon for each of the seven deadly sins. That's pride, lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, and envy. It's very important to remember that it's the Catholic belief that Jesus was the first exorcist, and is through Jesus that the Catholic Church the institution, received the
power and office to exercise demons. And this is exactly why an exorcism can't be performed without the church's blessing. And we'll talk about this more a little later, but it's that old horror wor trope right where a priest has to beg and fight with the Church to grant him the permission to perform an exorcism. Yes, otherwise that priest just says fuck it and he goes rogue. Right, there are trope, This is real. Trope is a real thing.
To be truly effective, an exorcist must have the full permission, power, and authority of the Church, and thus Jesus Christ behind him when he's casting out demons. And it's crucial to note that it's not the priest himself casting out demons. Like the priest doesn't wield his own power or authority over demons. No, it's actually Jesus and the Church working through the priest that's casting out these unclean spirits, not the priest himself. Incredibly important to understand and remember as
we go through this. Okay, So Jesus gave the church the power in office to rid people demons. But where did the actual ceremony come from, the words prayers and rules a priest must follow during an exorcism. The actual exorcism ceremony itself, along with the ritual prayers and rules, are spelled out in something called the Right of Exorcism, which was first published in sixteen fourteen by Paul Fifth as a part or a section of a larger publication
called the Roman Ritual. Now, just to complicate things a bit, there are two Roman rituals. One Roman Ritual is called the Ordinary Form and the other is called the Extraordinary Form.
I'd say is that you'll be right.
The ordinary form of the Roman Ritual is what most people recognize as the Mass celebrated beginning after the Second Vatican Council or Vatican two, which ran from nineteen sixty two to nineteen sixty five, and the Extraordinary form was celebrated or used since the Council of Trent, which ran from fifteen forty five. To fifteen sixty three three all
the way up until nineteen sixty two when Vatican Two began. Now, both versions of the Roman Ritual layout rules, or more like the decorum for the church for God's House when it deals with important church stuff, with important church business like praying for the sick, praying for the dying and the dead, or for administering the holy sacraments baptism, confirmation, communion, reconciliation, marriage, anointing of the sick, and the holy orders. Those are
the holy sacraments. Stuff like that, incredibly important stuff.
Now.
Also included in the Roman Ritual are the rules, the steps, and the prayers for performing an exorcism, collectively called the Right of Exorcism.
Now.
The Right of Exorcism remained unchanged for three hundred and eighty five years from when it was first published in sixteen fourteen, all the way up to January nineteen ninety nine, when the Catholic Church updated the Right of Exorcism. Now, the prayers being recited during an exorcism didn't change in nineteen ninety nine. What changed, or more like what was added, were things that make the ritual fit in a more
modern world. For example, added was the rule that an exorcist must work with doctors and psychologists to rule out sickness and mental illness when when evaluating the need for exorcism, or more specifically, exorcists must consult experts in medical and psychiatric science who have a sense of spiritual reality. Doctors and psychiatrists who have a sense of spiritual reality. So here the update isn't talking about a Freudian psychologist or
a straight by the book medical doctor. It's asking for doctors and psychologists that also have spiritual leanings, which I find very interesting. Also added to the Right of Exorcism in nineteen ninety nine is the rule that an exorcism should not be made into a media event nor should it be publicized. Probably not a big concern in the sixteen hundreds, right, but modern times a big concern, and for good reason, believe.
It or not.
Back in April nineteen ninety one, so eight years before the Right of Exorcism was updated, the ABC television show twenty twenty. Remember twenty twenty? Yep, I used to love twenty twenty as a kid.
I think I probably a weird kid.
Yeah, yeah, so twenty twenty. Back in nineteen ninety one. In April nineteen ninety one, aired an Honest to God two part series on exorcism, hosted and narrated by none other than Barbara Walters. Talk about a media event. This was the first time a supposed real exorcism was broadcast anywhere in the world. No one had seen anything like this before, and it was chilling. Actually issued a warning to viewers and urged that children shouldn't watch what was
about to be aired. Now, I know this happened before the Right of Exorcism was updated in nineteen ninety nine, and maybe this is exactly why the rite was updated. But during the special, a Roman Catholic priest, with permission from the church, of course, performed a televised exorcism on a sixteen year old girl named Gina. Now, of course, this all happens in Florida, right, This is exactly something that would happen in Florida, just like our last episode.
That's true, that's true.
Now, doctors at Miami's Children's Hospital classified this gena as actively psychotic, but after months of investigation by the Catholic Church, the church deemed that Gina had a lot more going on than met the eye. The church declared that Gina was in fact possessed. Now, I want to give you guys a taste of what was aired back in ninety nine, So Oscar, we pretty please play a clip from that show.
Yeah, but then something does happen. Gina begins wretchy, and as the pre exorcism examination intensifies, unexpectedly low and unfamiliar voices begin to emerge.
Gina said to.
Me, I have to go.
I tell you, do you want me to go? Understand?
Do you understand? No, you understand I don't want to.
The very first time that I heard the voice manifested, I was quite surprised. I hadn't expected that at all, and I thought, boy, here we go fast and furious.
During a break, while the team prefours to begin the right of exorcism, Gina becomes violent.
And the name of Jesus, I silence, I command the spirit. I was able to leave now.
So on the night of April fourth, nineteen ninety one, and living rooms across America as families flipped on that television and settled into their favorite spot on the couch and eased into their lazy boys. Instead of tuning into the Cosby Show, or Roseanne or Wings or Coach or Designing Women.
Wait, sorry, your first two shows were already so public, like they're so bad news. You mentioned today their first two off the gate?
What about Roseanne?
Racist thing? Oh whole sweet thing?
Oh god, yeah, and of course we know that.
Yeah, that's right. I'm saying, first to think of that.
Man.
Hey, I grew up on Rosanne.
I got it. I'm just saying, you know, it was funny time out. So since you brought that up. Sorry, sorry, folks, We're gonna take a quick digression. So after my dad passed away, I was cleaning out his place and terrible shape, but anyway, I found a bunch of books that he had, and a lot of them are very touching. It's, you know,
how to be a dad. It's you know, books about fathers, Italian fathers, and you know kind of old school books and magazine articles clipped out on how to be a good parent, just you know, even right like right now, touched up by it. But one of the books he had was how to be a Father. I can't it's sitting up in my office. I could run up and get the title. But it's a book written by Bill Cosby. On how to be a parent didn't age.
Well, no, but I kept it.
It's in my office, as are quite a few of the books I took from his place.
But yeah, so that's crazy.
People tuned in that night. They weren't watching Designing Women, Right their Wings or Coach. On this night, an estimated twenty nine million Americans instead witnessed an exorcism, and it wasn't a pleasant watch. They saw a priest conduct portions of the right of exorcism on Gina, who was restraint and thrashing and growling and taunting. I mean, you heard the clip we played, and she's making these ugly faces
while wagon or tongue very reminiscent of Reagan McNeil. In the Exorcist movie, Viewers heard Gena shout words and voices that supposedly weren't her own, words that sounded like sanka, dali, buga, booga, and rabayah, silly words that sound incredibly spooky, almost powerful when spoken by a supposedly demon possessed girl, and Americans ultimately saw the two demons inhabiting Gina named Zion, who Gina described as an African from the jungle, and Minga
described only as a short woman. Well viewers got to see those two demons expelled, exercised, hallelujah, a happy ending to a downright terrifying ordeal. And again, it's estimated that twenty nine million people watched Gina's liberation from the devil.
And the reason the Church allowed the exorcism to err because the Church believed it was important for people to understand that the devil does exist, and most importantly, to let the public see firsthand that the Catholic Church can help those whom it feels needs relief from evil spirits.
In ratings a boost and ratings a boost.
And ratings exactly. And it's like the airing of Genus exorcism was a demon fueled commercial for the Catholic Church.
But it also feels like a double edged sword. I mean, I don't know where you're going with this.
I didn't.
I didn't read into this, so I don't know if I'm spoiling something here, but it feels like, you know, and I think the Church believes this wholeheartedly. Even I do to some extent, even though I'm not religious like that, I believe in this power.
That people can become possessed.
Well, no, I mean I meant like the power of prayer. Okay, you know how the power prayer works right like that? For example, when I was hospitalized for something I'm related. I'm not gonna talk about nothing with possession, but I was hospitalized once for over a week, and I see you and stuff. My family got their church to have a thousand people pray for me.
I didn't know this.
Yeah, it was like a thing. I remember a thousands is made up number.
It was.
It was a bunch of people. Don't remember the number they told me. And you know, I've and I've also read on people read studies secondhand. Of course, I'm not a doctor that says the power prayer really works for people if communally, even if you don't know them, a bunch of strangers can be helping you literally good vibes in good vibes, right, good vibing you all the way
in full of Christmas and can't resist. And I feel like this is a double edged sword because twenty nine million people watching an exorcist, did you mention was it live or not?
No?
Right, it was foot I think, you know, I think in my story I did say a live televised, live exorcism. It was prerecorded.
Probably it was pre I always wouldn't have to because they have to send do some editing. But I guess it would have been way worse if it was live. But because like I feel like, having the vibes of so many conflicting things from twenty nine million people at the same time, that could be a double edged sword.
You know, that's what you meant by the double edged sword? Yeah, Oh, is that interesting. I think we came up. I think you just came up with a topic, the power of prayer. Yeah, and cases where it went good, maybe it didn't go good in other cases, right, double edged sword? Yeah, that's really interesting.
Man, that's what I was thinking of that.
But that's kind of what this was, like, it's her exorcism. The church viewed it as kind of a commercial. The church was hoping that by airing this exorcism, they would change some minds and win some hearts.
Also, what is the greatest trick to double up a.
Pull but making people believe he's not there?
Right, they're doing the opposite great pr And.
It's kind of like the public's reaction when the Exorcist movie was released. When the church saw that up ticking converts.
Yes, that's true.
But just remember though, as of nineteen ninety nine, the church no longer wants this stuff publicized. And I don't have an answer, but I wonder why, Like if airing stuff like this wins convert, So you think the church would want more genus to publicize.
You would think so.
But for some reason they put a stop to that ship. When it added to it wasn't hit.
So it had a different hit than they wanted.
Right, what exactly did it not work? Did it have the opposition cultest activity? It's interesting why did they do that?
Right?
Because the more tension you bring onto something, the more power you give it negative or positive. Right, because the white celebrity shouldn't be trusted, we'll expand on that well, like I think we put a lot of weight on celebrity them, Like if we know someone exists and we know their name, we tend to like put a lot more weight into what they have to say or what they do, even yourself or your family because they're not at all famous like they are, and we shouldn't because
they should. They should just be trusted. And the thing they're famous for. The actors absolutely like an actor or singer. You should ask me questions about acting or singing, don't ask some questions about politics. That's what I mean.
I like how you put it where we would listen to their thoughts and ideas before our own family because our family isn't famous. Right, that's fucked up.
That's fucked up by very true and more. And it feels more to these days because of the power or dispowerment of the Internet. But that's how it is.
Great, great insight, great point. So again I wonder why. I wonder why they put a kebash to publicize and this stuff. It's if it was supposed to work, but maybe it's to protect the identities of those involved, the priests, the possessed. I don't know. Anyway, If you go to the show notes listeners, I left a link to the full twenty twenty series on Gina if you want to see it, But I'm telling you if you scare easily. I know it's October, but maybe skip it. It's pretty creepy.
No, I watch it with your family. I agree with we're going.
To find kids kids. This is what happened when you lie. I am no, unfuck, that's what happens when you. I okay. Now, when it comes to exorcisms, there are actually two types, minor exorcisms and major exorcisms. Now, minor exorcisms are fair and I didn't know any of this like this, this is new stuff to me. Yeah, this is really involved.
Ye.
Minor exorcisms are found in two places, both where baptism is concerned, because those who are not baptized, like babies, do not yet have the grace of baptism to protect them, and therefore they're more more vulnerable to assaults from the devil and his minions. Plus depending on what you believe as a Christian, and I'm not going to debate this, but a lot of Christians strongly believe that babies are born with inherited sin from their mother, what's referred to
as original sin. You got to get rid of that shit for the sake of the baby's soul, which is why the practice of baptized baptizing children exists. So where minor exorcisms are concerned, we have the right of baptism for children, and we have the right of Christian initiation of adults, in other words, adult baptism. Now, it's important to actually when we got married, Katie had to get rebaptized really as an adult, so she went through that rite of Christian initiation of adults so he could get
married in a Catholic church because they didn't. It is a mouthful. She was hastily baptized will say, and then whisked the way when she was just an infant in the church didn't recognize that as an actual baptism, so she had to go through this.
Now.
It's important to note that minor exorcisms don't deal with the full possession of a person by a demon or demons. Instead, it deals with the expulsion of evil spirits that are trying to negatively influence a person. The demon isn't inhabiting the person, yet he's outside knocking trying to get in, in essence, trying to create a doorway the demon is through which he and his friends could enter and take
hold of a person possessed them. And even though minor exorcisms don't look like something out of the Exorcist movie, all crazy and violent, the words and actions of priests uses during a minor exorcism each time a child or adult is baptized in the Catholic Church, they're actually very powerful even though it might not look like it or sound like it. Here's an excerpt from the right of Baptism as found in the extraordinary form of the Roman Rite.
So this is actual exorcistic prayers. Take of my holy whiskey. I cast you out, unclean spirit, in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Depart and stay far away from this servant of God. For as the Lord himself who commands you a cursed and doomed spirit, he who walked on the sea and reached out his hand to Peter as he was sinking. So then, foul fiend, recall their that decided your fate once and
for all. Indeed, pay homage to the Living and True God, pay homage to Jesus Christ, his Son, and to the Holy Spirit. Keep far from this servant of God, for Jesus Christ, our Lord and God, has freely called him to his holy grace and blessed way into the waters of baptism. And amen him being in this case the person being baptized. Powerful language, and even in the post Vatican too Roman Rite, the ordinary Rite, the ordinary right, boring right. Still, the words and actions used during these
minor baptisms are quite powerful. And I remember this vividly from when my kids were baptized. Were you there when both kids? I think I feel like I was like you were too. I'm like ninety nine percent sure.
I'm pretty sure too. I don't remember any of them.
Sorry, yeah, so yeah, I remember this visibly. So we were all there at our church. We're up there, we are upfront at the baptismal font. What my kids are going to be baptized in the water, the font. Everyone's dressed nice. God parents were there, all our families and friends, Our priest and our family deacon was there. And actually a deacon can perform the rite of baptism, doesn't have to be a priest. Then the priest gently blows into our baby's face three times as a figurative way to
expel demons. He anoints our kids foreheads and chests with oil and the sign of a cross holy oil. He lays his hands on our son's head or our daughter's head, and he recites a number of exorcistic prayers, including the following. Remember this is from the ordinary, right, almighty, everlasting God
Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Look what favor on your servant whom it has pleased you to call to this first step in the faith, rid him of all inwards blindness, several snares of Satan, which heretofore bound him open wide. For him, Lord, the door to your fatherly love made a seal of your wisdom. So penetrate him as to cast out all tainted and foul inclinations, and let in the fragrance of your lofty teachings. Thus shall he serve you gladly in your church, and grow daily
more perfect through Christ our Lord. Now, of course he in this case is our son, or he would have replaced she for our daughter Talia. Everything the priest is doing and saying throughout the baptism again, are all minor exorcisms, even though they don't look like exorcisms as we've come
to think of them. And you know what, I've been through this baptism thing twice with my kids and twice with my god children, so four times, and I never realized what was actually happening until I started putting this episode together. Yeah, my unobserved ass. But now all that was minor exorcisms, right, we're just talking about minors. We have to talk about major exorcisms. Remember, minor are demons trying to get in. They're not in yet, the priests
or the deacon. They're trying to get rid of those evil spirits before they can take hold. Right, That's what minor exorism for. That's what baptism is about. Now with major exorcisms, the first thing to know is that they're used when a person is believed to actually be inhabited by demons. By the other it's no longer just an evil outside force trying to corrupt a person in order
to create this doorway through which demons can enter a person. No, the demons are in and they're creating fucking havoc, doing everything they possibly can to separate the possessed person, or
more like, the possessed person's soul from God. These major exorcisms, sometimes referred to as solemn exorcisms, can only be performed by a trained exorcist priest with the permission from the local bishop, and they can only be performed after a supposedly possessed person undergoes intense medical evaluation by again preferably Catholic or Christian leaning doctors and psychologists. If the doctors agree that something's wrong outside of what modern medicine can
diagnose cure control. Then an exorcism is granted, and major exorcisms can take days, weeks, months, or even years to complete. Some have to go beyond the local exorcist up to
the Pope, and sadly, some are never completed. And major exorcisms could be violent, albeit not exorcist movie levels of violence, but still swinging arms and fists, spitting, cursing, sudden fast body movements, and it's reported that sometimes there's other unexplainable actions observed, like speaking in hungs, foul phantom smells, and
even levitation. A major exorcism could be very intense, and it's said that most exorcists may only encounter a handful of major exorcisms throughout their entire career, and their career is for life, right right. In other words, these cases are very rare. That's good news for us, I guess.
Right, that's yeah, I would say. I imagined. I would imagine that the is not true, that that the pope has like a red phone the way we used to doing the old and throwing di iron curtain days, and that when that rings is when he needs approval, When they need approval on his.
Case, goes on the head, goes on the.
Imagine phone and his Vatican chambers.
And off he goes in the popemobile, right, which is a real thing.
I know it looks ridiculous though.
Okay. Now, just as there's different type of exorcisms, major and minor, there are also different stages of possession too. Now a person doesn't go to bed normal and then bam they wake up possessed. It doesn't happen like that. It's not like the movies. This happens in stages, and it begins with a door opening, and that door can open without a person even realizing it, which is terrifying. Things like using a Ouiji board, tarot cards, pendulums, pagan symbols,
using healing crystals and birth stones, even ghost hunting. You know, things we love to do.
And we have done for you guys. Any of these things mirror yea, I that feels like that's not good.
No, it's terrible. It's horrifying. I don't know what's gonna come through there. And just while I was going through here, I thought I saw something on the stairs. Again, I'm just saying, that's how you're looking, So any of these things. Ghost hunting included anything it could be considered a cult. Let's say, can serve to open a doorway for demons
and eventual possession. Just listeners, do me favorite listen to the beginning of Supernatural Occurrence Studies Podcast episode twenty two and what happened to my own house when my daughter started using a pendulum to talk to a spirit named Johnny. It was fucking terrifying. I actually had to have a priest come and bless this house, and of course, me being me, I recorded the whole thing, right, Oscar, Can we play a little bit from our House blessing.
Sure Stasa, Katie, prro and Eco everyser the Lord.
For my happy es, God brand.
My happy Yes, the conference, the spear.
Everywhere else.
Things treasuryalos, scenes and of love coming up bus and.
Cleanse us from every emputy and says.
All over the rest of the coss reserve the habit.
With the other rooms.
It was other rooms. So that was just a quick clip Oscar put together from our House Blessing back in twenty sixteen. They walked room to room, they sang kind of chanting, they splashed holy water around, and I believe they spread incense throughout the house too. After that blessing, we sealed our doors and windows by marking a cross on them with blessed oil, like on the wood frame
surrounding the doors and windows. And I'll tell you, after all this, Johnny, the thing that was messing with my daughter, never made another appearance and she never mentioned him again. What that means, I don't know. Now. I want to mention here that the clip you heard was not a Catholic house blessing. It was actually Eastern Orthodox, and of course Ether Eastern Orthodox is a branch of Christianity along
with Catholicism and Protestantism. So you see, I'm half Ukrainian, and my cousin on my Yuki side he was an ether Eastern Orthodox priest. So he and his wife came to our house to help us get rid of Johnny. And it must have worked because our daughter was never affected by this thing. Again cool, so little firsthand experience there with this stuff. Anyway, A little digression, but we were talking about the different stages of possession right now.
Once the door is open and evil spirits take notice, they're like, a huh, that motherfucker right there? A person will a possession of a person will happen in those in stages, and those stages are infestation, oppression, obsession, and finally possession. Now, during the infestation stage, a person will start to experience typical haunted house like symptoms. Could you say typical and haunted house in the same sentence, I don't know.
I think you can, because you know, we're endured by the by media and pop culture to know these symbols and science and movies. So I think it's enough to say that, yeah, there are typical and uncommon versions of this.
Fair enough. We're talking about, okay, the tropes, right, like how we're trained to think about what for the creek, disembodied voices and steps right just you know, phantom sounds, creek items moving around the house seemingly on their own.
That show Evil did a good job of this throughout the whole series. I mean, they had to do with a lot of potential hauntings or possessions. They call them infestations. A lot of times they're like pre possessions, prepossession. They get into him saying because they're assessors right there to see if they need an exorcist. That's right, right, that's the whole point of that series. So a few episodes would be that, and then one guy would be like, well,
let's see what's wrong with the house. See what's making that noise first, that's in our physical domain before we go into supernatural, and they will find those things. And sometimes they would find like this dryer has this thing loose, so it makes this noise at three in the morning.
Right, yeah, like that show infestations, Yeah, first first stage of possession. Those symptoms, right, do somebody voices the phantom smells, items moving around. You might even see an apparition out of your peripheral like we've been seeing down here, you know, the things we try to document when we're out ghosts or when we were out on our podcast adventures, right, those kind of things. I believe this is what was
happening with my daughter when whatever Johnny was was happening. Now, overall, things experienced during the infestation stage can be freaky, but it's nothing too over the top. It's that did is my mind playing tricks on me? Or did I just does my mind playing tricks on me? Did I just hear? Did I just see? That makes you question yourself, but
nothing really over the top. Just makes you question your your immediate reality, right yeah, but you just kind of brush it off and you go about it that we did here, daughter, we have here, We go just what we're doing. Nothing goes bust them, No, I got to do exactly now. It isn't until we get to the oppression stage that shit starts to take a dark turn. In the oppression stage, the strange activity happening in the
house ramps up. You're being touched by unseen hands and even physical attacks, sleeplessness, horrible nightmare, lack of focus, frequent sickness, intense depression, relationship troubles, work troubles. Now, of course, most of these things could happen throughout someone's life without any sort of demonic influence, but if they happen in rapid succession, in a short amount of time, or even all at once,
there could be a sign of demonic oppression. I remember the strain shit that were first noticed in the infestation stage. Those things are still happening in the oppression stage. So it's just this onslaught of seemingly endless paranormal craziness.
Kind of reminds me of the possession that takes place, and this is not the same of The Ring because it takes plays over seven days and it gets progressively worse.
Oh oh yeah, Ring okay, were.
Obviously the movie based on the Japanese movie Bringhu, And I remember thinking that in that movie, it's it starts off like believably, like you seen something, is that wrong? And by the fifth day you're like all in it, don't believe you anymore. And so it's.
These stages just kind of condensed rapid succession.
In the movie. But yes, good movie though, I love that movie.
So now the third stage, obsession, it's just what it says. The affected person becomes obsessed with what's going on around them, right, it's all they could think about. Sleeplessness and depression, worsen feelings of utter hopelessness and despair, permeate the thoughts and even suicidal thoughts, creep in, abandon all hope. Really bad news man. The demons are doing whatever they can to break that person's soul and completely separate the person from
the divine from God. And the demons are doing this so they could advance to the final stage full Boem possession. Now, mind you, the first three stages of possession again that's infestation, oppression, and obsession. These stages can be cured through minor exorcisms performed by either a priest or a competent member of the faithful like a deacon. The problem is, most of the time the person being affected doesn't understand what's happening. They just see it as their entire life is spiraling
out of control and they have no idea why. They can't do anything to stop it, so they don't know to reach out to a priest or a member of the faithful for help. Now, the possession stage cannot be fought by an ordinary priest or a member of the
faithful the deacon. This stage must be faced head on by an actual exorcist with permission from that local bishop, or it must be handled by the local bishop himself, because remember, the exorcist must wield the full power and authority of the church in order to be effective against the demon. In the possession stage, a person is so physically a mo emotionally and spiritually broken by going through all the other three stages that demonic spirits are now
able to seize occasional control over that person's actions. And this is interesting. I never knew this but it's reported that possession is usually an intermittent possession of a person's body rather than an uninterrupted possession of a person's body like you might see in the movies. It's also believed
that evil spirits can't overtake a person's free will. They can't make a person do something they normally wouldn't do murder, for example, if the afflicted person didn't have them in them to be a murderer before the possession, the spirits cannot turn them into a murder during the possession.
Okay, supposedly facts.
Now, as for actually performing the right of exorcism, here too, there are rules. First and foremost, before major exorcism is granted and performed, the exorcists must ascertain that he is actually dealing with the presence of evil evil spirits and not a mental illness. As we've mentioned a few times, exorcists must work closely with a spiritually leaning medical professional or professionals to ensure that what they're dealing with is
not a diagnosable treatable illness. In other words, they're looking for the accepted signs of demonic possession, which include, and this is real, a person's sudden ability to speak or understand archaic or unknown.
Languages unknown to them, you mean right, unknown to them? By not like unknown to everyone. I guess it could be both, But they mean that.
A person's ability to reveal distant or hidden things. In other words, having intimate knowledge about things the afflicted person couldn't possibly know about.
Like personal things like if I suddenly say what you did last Wednesday and that I shouldn't know that exact kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, by the way, you mean who you did last Wednesday? A right bugs.
Displaying strength beyond one size and normal ability is another accepted sign of demonic possession, as is having a vehement aversion to God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Saints, the Cross, and sacred images, and in rare instances, levitation. Actual levitation has been observed during demonic possession. Definitely a sign that something more than a medical condition is at hand. Right, and mind you, this is real. These things, levitation, superhuman strength, clairvoyance,
according to the Church, actually happen. It's crazy, that is.
How do you explain levitation? Like? What is that a symbol of I know that I know what he means to someone possibly performing a narcissism. But what is that a sign up like that? Is that a show of power?
I think that where it is? Okay, I do think that's what it is. It's purely just look what control I have of this person?
Got it?
You know? Now, if it's decided that an exorcism is needed, if possible, the exorcism should not be held at that afflicted person's home. Too much negative bullshit there from the first three stages of possession. Really, Instead, the exorcism should be performed at a church away from public view.
You don't get that in the movies or in some.
Other chapel dedicated to private worship, as it's to the exorcists. Great advantage to battle evil in a place dedicated to God's honor.
Well, yeah, I mean that actually makes sense. It's just amazing how you don't need to see that in the pot like that's not common, not in pop culture. Right, it's always at their house. There is always there bad, almost always good.
Point.
There are exceptions, but not many.
But this is this is one of the rules God's God's honor, And you're right, it does track any any holy power you get behind you you want, so being in a place.
On the court. Advantage is what we're talking about.
Thank you.
That's good.
During a major exorcism, it's strongly recommended that the priests do not perform the exorcism alone. Therefore, members of the lay faithful may be present during the rite, supporting the work of exorcists with their prayers, either recited privately in their minds or out loud as instructed in the right of exorcism, and it says out loud in the right
of exorcism, you should say this, yeah, it's cool. If the possessed person is female, there should be at least one other female present during the exorcism for the sake of appropriateness and discretion, for the integrity of the afflicted person's reputation, as well as for those individuals who might be assisting with the exorcism. The preservation of confidentiality is critical.
We've talked about this. It's also strongly suggested that the identity of the exorcist be kept secret or at most only known to the other priests of the diocese, so as not to overwhelm the exorcist with random calls and inquiries. This is actually it's actually written, and the media is not invited again talked about this. It's very clear in the updated Roman rite from nineteen ninety nine. Then exorcism should not be made into a spectacle or a media event.
Right, huh, so it should not be made. What if it happens to be made, do they have to stop?
Oh?
I don't know, Like someone gets wind of it, you know.
Put a bag over the head and whisk them away to the closest church. I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
It's crazy.
I have a question about what just mature you read for the research. It sounds like is it written like like a legal document? Is it read? Is it written like a chapter in the handbook for the recently deceased? Is it very good? You know what I'm saying? Like, what is it written like.
When you get into like hardcore church.
Like corport rules human resources speak?
It is? It's I mean right, it is like that. Okay, So it is like a legal document almost with citations.
Because lego documents sounds like Latin, you know. I would say it's written kind of like almost purposely to be so detailed that it's obscuring, Like it's very hard to read. It's not a layman's kind of reading, but like human resources speak, it's more a concise, like that's what it's kind of like like more I don't say clear, because they're not super clear either, but like it's more of a technicality like technically, this is the policies of our company, right, and bullet points almost.
Yeah, when like the right of exorcism itself, the Roman right, it's I mean it's pretty straight.
The romance right. Sorry, it's it's kind.
Of like a legal document. But when you start getting into like church doctrine, and.
I was just I just never thought of like how it reads like intense, Like is there a school dedicated like scenographers, like legal pe pialegals, right, dedicated to how these things are supposed to be written? Oh gosh, I don't know, you know what I'm saying, Like how deep?
How deep does that we would think there would be because the ways a lot of this stuff is written, it's it's amazing because you.
Got to think of that in general.
Plus, I mean you're you're writing rules and doctrine that a billion people are going to follow and have to adhere to, So it has to be so on point clear concise.
Ah.
Yeah, it's it's crazy. Yeah, so great, No, no media event, right, I don't want to do that shite. Now, the possessed person may be bound tied up to help curb violent outbursts and to prevent injury to the exorcist and to any lay people involved, or injury to the afflicted person themselves. So binding is okay. Now. As for the exor system himself, he must wear a type of embroidered white tunic called the surplice, along with the purple stole, which together symbolize
priestly authority. The exorcist will make the sign of the Cross on the afflicted several times throughout the right, usually on the person's forehead. The priest will call on the saints. He'll pray, and he'll read from the Roman Ritual. He'll read excerpts from the Bible in which Jesus drives out demons from people. The exorcist will use what's called depreciative formulas, which our prayers appealing directly to God to liberate the
afflicted person. And he'll also use imperative formulas, or words addressed directly to the inhabiting demonic spirit, commanding it to depart in the name of Jesus Christ. In Jesus's name, the exorcist commands the possessing demon to yield to God and depart as many times as necessary, while holy water is sprinkled on the afflicted and a crucifix is presented, all in hopes of driving out the offending spirit or spirits.
Once the priest is convinced that exorcism is worked, he'll then pray to God to prevent the evil spirit or spirits from re entering the afflicted person, and he'll pray for the goodness and peace of our Lord Jesus Christ to take hold of and fill the person instead, because after all, if the body is full of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, there's no room left for evil to end. Well, And I think this is where I'd like to kind of end this episode. We've covered a
ton the history of exorcism and the Roman RTE. We covered the right of exorcism and the rules an exorcist must follow. We outline the signs an exorcist looks for to validate a possession, and we talked about the different stages of possession, and we even read a few verses
of exorcistic prayers straight from the right of exorcism. So I'm just kind of hoping that by now you're ready and you have a good handle on the right of exorcism, because in the next episode, we're going to talk about a few well documented demonic possessions that could not be a cured by the afflicted locals, by the afflicted per AND's local exorcists. These cases were so bad that the demon possessed had to be taken to different popes to be cured throughout throughout.
Time, even the post exorcist.
Oh, I talk about him a little bit. Oh nice, Gabriel more Yeah the movie. So yes, these cases were so bad they had to be taken to popes and were the Holy Fathers able to cure them? Listen to part two to find out.
So why you may think that right now you are an anxiousist snob. When you come and next watching Naxissys horror movie, next time, you are not ready yet, next episode you will become an actissis snob.
Yeah, yes, and with that and you get what your thoughts you like?
Yes, And just I mean I want to know more. I thought you're gonna keep going, so I have nothing right now. I just want to know how these things are.
Yeah, the cases are cool. Like I said, they're very few and far between, right, and when there are cases like this, the Church and we'll talk about this in the next episode. I don't want to give away too much, but the Church, do you want more? Is incredibly, incredibly hush hush on this ship. Right, So a few stories got out from different people who have been involved in the Vatican and you know, advisors to popes, things like this.
So I'm going to talk about those stories. But they are they're very rare, and when they are taught, when they are out there there, church tries to put a cabash on it, real quick interesting stuff.
Yeah, I can't wait to you know, the more I might becoming as also.
Yes, also, and you know I did one quickly before we bounce out of here. All Saints Day, All Souls Day. What we talked about at the top of the show. All Saints Day is November one. All Souls Day is freaking November two. That's fine, So I kind of combined them, combine them both.
So both right and wrong. There is an All Souls Day, but not the same day interchangeably. Yeah, got it. So it's a long weekend. That's what we call it the long weekends.
Right, So All Saints Day honors all saints and martyrs in the Christian faith. All Souls Day honors all of the faithfully departed, those baptized Christians who are believed to be in purgatory. Those are the people were thinking of and praying for on All Souls Day. Okay, All Saints Day is just what it says for all Saints. Oscar, Happy Halloween and take us home. Yeah, cool man, anything with uh directing or writing for movies or anything with video?
Have you been doing anything other than my tech talks now? I would show you, but you don't have to.
That's still I do. I do Lego tech talks?
Do you really? Yeah?
I have been for a few years now.
Oh shit, yeah I don't.
I haven't posted anything new because I keep forgetting and not thinking about it and don't have many money for new Legos too. But yeah, I make stop motion videos really, yeah, I had no idea and where they build themselves. You don't see my hand doing it?
Do you have on your phone?
I have them all on my phone, but it's cheating. You should really get TikTok. I just also I also, I'm starting to put them on my Instagram, so there are there. They all will eventually end up on Instagram. Okay, but I'm going back to the back catalog and I'm putting so I do time lapse videos. That's my main one because that's the easiest one, just watching me doing it, but super fast, that's easy. Most of them are like that. And then at some point I started doing a lot
of time lapsing. So it's a combination. Some of them combine both in one video.
And do people are people into it? Are they commenting and watching.
Some of them? Yeah, it's not as much as you might think about it. It is more than I thought.
Cool.
Let me show you sure a nice short one because some of them are real long. H Let's see have so many folks, I'm so bad at organizing this shit.
She's in the shower now. You could hear that in this shower now.
So I've done, and I have a fold that keeps on my tiktoks. I have sixty nine and I have made oh that's a phone number because I also play gameplay on there sometimes and show like that is it in nature? Might be a nature.
So you're recording right now? Our voices sound good?
Yeah, they sound good?
All right?
Just hit play at the top there as you know how an iPhone works?
Yes?
Sorry, could there's a shorter one that I have. I just don't know where it is. Maybe the deleted it.
But how do you get your hands out? You just ended it out somehow?
How do you do that? Yeah, that's cool, I'll tell you after you watch it. Plans what do you mean? Oh yeah, the actual set. Yeah, it's like six plants. I want to say, oh nine plants are nine stitched in three or three groups? Cool? All right?
Does it looks like the plants blooming?
Yeah, it's kind of cool. That's the kind of effact I'm going for. It's like when you watch Ninemare before Christmas, Like that's the motion, right, yeah?
Yeah.
You know how they do it is that they what they do is that they build puppets and sets. It's all real and they have a camera and they take a shot and then they move the puppet like this, they take another shot a half a centimeter not even that. That's how you do those, all right, So it just it's all pictures. Those are all pictures. That's like a few hundred pictures I took to make that.
Really.
Yeah, so then where's your hands? Like, how it don't exist because I move it?
Right?
Because I move the object, take a picture, Move the object, take a picture.
You're fucking kidding me.
That's how you do it.
How long does this take you?
Forever? Holy not forever, but a while. That's stress. That's like four sittings two hours about so an hour serious, And I had long ones. I have longer ones in that I have like bigger sets that I've made entirely by doing that.
Move Holy shit, dude.
Yeah, you just need patients and you need to know where everything is at all times, which I fuck up a lot. There's a lot of hers. I'm not perfect, but yeah, I'm not really ambitious.
So then when you make it to circle like that, it's you just leally. Oh my god, dude, I couldn't I kill.
My That's how you do it. That's the only way to do that.
Holy ship. So there's no way you could do like speed burst camp.
No, No, that wouldn't work because you have to move. You're in there and then you're in there.
Yeah oh wow.
And people were saying like, can't you just film it and take your hand out like that takes way longer. Oh my god, that will take any longer, dude, that's nuts.
Man.
Yeah, you got some patients of a saint. No, no, not even let me, just regular filmmaking.
So I don't have that. But I'll show you the picture because I took. I took the finale picture of it, the finale final picture. So I did this big epic lighthouse one entirely.
How long How long did that take?
I don't know, but the pictures are in the thousands.
Oh my god, dude. Yeah, yeah, you have patients of a saint, my friend.
A long time to edit too, because I have It's a lot of rendering, not a long time to edit, just a lot of rendering, so that takes a while. So I haven't done that. I just got the pictures. If you have my tick, I'm dude.
I don't want the Chinese looking at everything I do.
They don't care the porn I look at it, I don't don't care.
I don't look at that much porn.
And it is Chinese porn. They don't care.
Tentacles.
I haven't developed an interest to watch it.
It's good. I wasn't either and I was like, just give it a chance. Well, just watch it. And I liked it.
You know, I imagine when you when you two talk, you're both in the bath with bubbles. No, and we don't actually talk that much, but when you do.
As I'm going through this, I just kind of just well, that's what happens when'm working on myself and just kind of But.
Also that tends to happen when someone moves away states away.
Yeah, but I'm usually there in Florida. I see him more now than I did when he.
Was in That's weird, funny. Yeah, it's crazy.
But no, He's like, just check it out, check it out. You're like, it's like Sopranos, you know, like in Gotham. It's like, all right, fine, and I Colin Ferrell does such a good job.
I mean, yeah he does. I'm not saying it. It doesn't look like as potential to be good.
It's the cord slipped, okay, and.
It's the fact the crying lady here.
Yeah.
Uh oh, I guess something about it doesn't appel to me. I'm you know, watching so many shows.
What do you what? We oh, we me and Katie. We're on the last episode of Game of Thrones.
Oh wow, you guys made Oh my god, in two months or last less than two months.
It had to be about two months. I bet wow, about two months.
Because last time we talked, you weren't season what.
We were just starting it. I think I was telling you how excited I was.
Katie finally, Yeah, I remember we talked about it.
She's hooked. She's like, you know, sometimes I gotta put it down, you know, we'll take a few days off or whatever. She went through and I wonder, what's happening with my friends, you know, and so she really got into these characters, like we all did, you know. So now we're on the absolute last episode.
That's insane.
So we're gonna we're gonna wait a little while to watch it.
And you know, and to be disappointed.
Yeah, but yeah, she went through all of it, all of it. You know, what was the purple wedding?
Geoffrey dying choking on it?
Oh?
Is that what they call it? Purple wedding?
They turned purple? Okay, I'm pretty sure that's why you went Oh yeah, no, I mean and also the High Gardens, I think they're in saying this as purple or something like, it's very it's like, I mean double meaning. I think so I think might be I don't remember it's a purple rose or something. Yeah that sounds right.
Oh yeah, Aria killing the Night King. I mean the zombie dragons. You can't say zombie but the ice dragon because they're not zombies.
But and just even they were doing a Zomi marathon right now?
Are you really there's no good, no good zombie movies?
Man?
Oh, yes there is. I don't understand. You know, you have a film guy as the horror film.
Guiys what what there's nothing like?
So name the top five Samme movies.
I don't even know if I have, dude, I don't know.
So you just don't like zombie movies.
No I do, But I mean I don't know the original Living deads they're all great. Day of the Dead, Return of you know, those were all which I know.
The Living Dad is a different guy, different filmmaker, different which other Living Dead one, two and three? Completely different people. That's much more schlocky slashery.
Yeah, eighty total eighty. Practical effects were great.
Have you seen I assume you've seen Seana that?
Yes, But I don't like funny stuff oh, you don't like comedy, not comedy when you mix, although I did like the one with the Bill Murray and and Lex Luthor.
Oh wow, that's how that is a weird poll. How did you combine Lex Luthor? That's your go to, uh form actor for that guy?
You talk about Adam sam And no it's not Andy Samberg.
No, I think a Zuckerberg. Not Zuckerberg because played Iceenberg Ice in.
Jesse Iber something like that, and it was a Burg.
You talk about zombie Land.
Zombie Land. I liked that. Those are funny.
That's definitely a comedy.
But I like like the again, like those eighties. No, I've seen like the cover and that was enough for me. I'm like, Nope, not for me.
The cover is just the face of a zombie.
It's like a little it's just like a dog bowl with a leash.
Always that the on the cover. That not that.
I know exactly what you're talking about, And I'm nine percent sure it was like stupid.
I liked great, a great movie.
And I'm not like a fan of like fast Zombies or whatever, but twenty eight days later it was great. I'm really excited for the new one that they're making.
Twenty eight years.
Yeah, well they like they keep saying how they filmed it all on the phone.
Yeah did you see?
Oh that wasn't real.
Well it's real about did you see all the added technology to the phone. Oh no, yeah, yeah, that's a joke on TikTok is that they'll say though. Quote the piece from the article is saying, like the entire movie shot on an iPhone, and here's the iPhone and it's like you see the phone surrounded with all this wet technology. Attach a man, that's too attachment. It's not a Yeah, folks settled out, sattled down, that's how they do it. It is on an iPhone, but it's not.
It's a transformer. Yeah, that was what it is.
It's ridiculous. Look at it. It's ridiculous.
So those those are good. I love, love, love that movie. But yeah, I like my.
So that movie I sent you Pontypoole.
I haven't watched it yet.
That's a zombie movie. One of my favorites.
Was it? I thought I read the review on it.
Why are you eating webs before you watch the movie.
I don't know.
Yeah, you're right, no, no, no murdering myself. But I haven't watched it yet. I haven't watched it.
That's a Canadian indie movie.
But it's like a very good cool I plan too. And now that you know it's a zombie flack, yeah, I'll watch it.
It's a really cool twiste on zombies and viruses and and you never heard that before, never, I gues it's a really cool idea, never before cool content, And.
That's really cool when you introduce something to zombies as well.
Have you seen never He's in the Chinese one, The Sadness, No, really, it's like it combines like a zombie virus type of zombie with like the Crazies, remember the Crazies. Georgie Ramuro
is the craziest. Yes, I mean all his movies are zombies, even the you know that's not zombies, but it's like the government experimenting and the human population and it turns like fifty percent of the population in that town into homicidal maniac so like they don't control their actions, but they kind of do because it's based on their internal desires.
Like they're basically zombies but not zombies, right. The Sadness is like a combination of that and like zombies and in the sense that they are insane, they go crazy. They are out to torture as well as kill. It's like both things that ones and not just to infect you. It's to kill and torture. Like that's sadness, the sadness. It's not shutter excellent movie we reviewed on the show already.
I feel she listens to the show anyway, and uh, it's it's from China, some Taiwan actually, and it's hardcore. There's some I fucking fucking h So I guess you'd call that skull fucking You.
Don't see that very hat.
You don't see for example. I like leading off with that so people can watch it. It's pretty corey, it's pretty cool.
Yeah, I guess I just like my my pure eighties zombie flicks.
Yeah, I think you have like rose colored glasses when it comes to the genre. Maybe, but there's been a lot of great ones. I would say, even better than you.
Oh, I'm sure, yeah, because you have to what is there something How do we get on the topic of zombies? Is there something coming out to that?
Now?
We were talking about series? What series are we watching?
Yeah, we did. How do we get to zombies? I don't know, I don't know you're there, bro, but no, I do a sonographer. Can you play that back at six minute market? Reds?
Yeah? What have you been watching?
M all right?
You said, uh, that the Zombie Dragon, and I was like, well, they're kind of zombies that That's what it was with the UMP