Welcome to the one hundred and fifty fifth episode of the Supernatural Occurrence Studies Podcast.
I plead the fifty fifth.
I plead the one two, three four fifth, Yeah, exactly. My name is Jason Knight, host of the show, and who is you?
Who is me? My name is Oscar Spector.
Producer, Extraordinary and podcast co host. Two shows in a row.
They don't know that. They don't need to know that.
They don't need to know that.
Oh, I see two shows in a row. Made like and yes, Oh I see that, and I ruin the magic.
I'm fulfilling my promise. Yes, have you been?
Have you been?
Oscar?
Oh, I've been good. You know there is something.
You've got news, because I don't really have any news news.
There's something recent. I mean, this is a pop culture thing, but I think it's fun and I think it's up your ally. I've recently been into this thing that I found on TikTok. TikTok inspires me so randomly and I don't nowhere or it tells me about something so randomly and out of nowhere, as as social media does.
Do you know I don't have TikTok.
I believe it well, you're I don't have it. I think there's an age when you start going on.
Do you know how hard it is for me to watch TikTok's that people send me because I don't have TikTok.
Is it hard?
It's very hard.
So I should stop sending you.
Time to consume me.
Just fucking get the.
App because the Chinese are watching.
They're watching you anyway, and they don't also care what you're doing.
Yeah, I'm nobody, right, literally nobody.
Like we're all really nobodies. You have comfort in that have comforted that you're a part of the masses. Yes, sorry, no, you're find friendship anyway. But three TikTok I found this thing, this thing that's been on and already a thing for a while years now. You know you are familiar with the Harry Potter franchise, of course, yes, More importantly, you are familiar with the Harry Potter novels. Yes, big fan
you are. We are a big fan. That's one of the things we bonded over super big fan earlier in our friendship.
Yep. Remember I had the final book delivered to my wedding reception.
I remember. I tell that to people often.
But the caveat here is it's been ages since I read those books or seen those movies, right, and hopefully I don't have to draw on my knowledge here, Well, not too much. The old memory isn't so good no more.
You've also heard a fanfic? Correct?
Yes? Right?
Have you read any fan folk? Are looked out? Looked out for any specific fanfic and in your lifetime doesn't have to be sexual A dozen This.
Is so stupid. Yes. And it was Texas chains Texas Chainsaw fan fiction, Okay, very specifically that And I don't remember the number of the movie, but it was the one with Matthew McConaughey, number four I think is that four? I think where he was part of a society and with the nipple rings the guy had three nipples.
All this fucking it's vague in my memory, but I remember that movie being crazy.
Yeah, in the movie itself, that whole thing is vague. So I went online what the fuck does this mean? And then I got down the rabbit hole of fanfic on that particular.
People expand on that universe.
Yes, yes, and it went in crazy places. I bet as fanfic does, so I am familiar with it.
Yes, okay, I found maybe the my favorite at least, not that I'm an expert in Harry Potter fanfic, but I found an amazing piece of fanfic that's been around in famous for a while, again new to me this year, that I think you might be interested in.
What is it?
So it is fifty chapters. Wow, they're long, and they're not long long, but they're like the equivalent of two early Harry Potter books or one later novels size books basically that length. Think of that length an extra book, let's say, accounting a time where it's called oh no, not again. That's what it's called. Oh no, it's called oh God, not again. Sorry, my bad, oh God, not again. And I've been I've been listening to the audiobook version
on YouTube, which is free to hear. So that's how I've been doing it as I work out or as I make legos or whatever. And some person, some random person studied paid attention around it. Yep, super famous in the Internet. And what it's about is that the synopsis is that Harry Potter is twenty three, he's about to become an or this is after the events of Baldemore Down and everything's spoiler for that old show now movies.
I don't know if it's spoiler anymore.
No, I don't think so. He starts having these dreams or nightmares about the Veil, the veil that took Serious Black and the Department of Mysteries in book five.
Oh god, yeah, okay.
That's right, YesYes, just having these weird dreams about it. And then he goes to sleep. Something happens. He seemingly goes through the veil in a weird way, and he wakes up. He is eleven years old again. Oh he is back on Private Drive and it's year one of Harry Potter, but it's him being twenty three years old.
Like mentally he's twenty three, so he knows what he went through. Uh huh, now he could do things different. I'm in it's exactly. The shit that he does is funny, it's interesting. It goes into weird, wacky places because he's having fun. He's not like fearful of everything. He's fucking with everyone. Oh my god.
He's interested in making money fast. He's like, for example, like he befriends Draco like day one.
Instead of yeah, oh my god, like that right there right there changes the entire universe.
When he meets Lockhart Kilroy kilde Word Lockhart, he like joins up with him to make a book about their exploids and make more money and get understand his celebrity status.
It is, dude, I got a bookmarked right here.
It is awesome.
Thank you for that. That is cool because I am kind of looking for something new to get into read them finishing up a Stephen King book that just came out right now now, So I've been looking for something I would be.
I've been listening to five chapters a day and I'm on a chapter twenty eight or something.
So let me ask you what fanfic does it have to be multiple authors or could it be one?
And this case is one author it is. I don't know how they are normally. I'm sure it's a mixed match of all last year. But this is one person well and some and some people did like a They collected money maybe through Patreon. I think it was through Patreon to make the audiobook Wow available and that took him a while to subscribe and paid stuff and they finished it all it's been finished and I've been listening to it.
How old is.
It I don't know how old, but you're years old.
Now, Okay, I will definitely check it out.
I know Howard ends. I'm like a little over halfway.
Wow. Maybe someone out there, if you've read this or listened to it, that's pretty cool. Let us know. Oh good, contact at Chicago ghost podcast dot com.
I can't believe you remember.
Great there. Yeah, but no, that sounds that sounds awesome. Yes, there's a whole new take on has JK.
Rowling said, I don't I haven't looked into it, and that that, and it sounds I'm not saying it sounds like jk roll because it sounds like an older Harry Potter honestly and said, but like also, it does have whiffs of that. It it feels like in another book in some ways.
Yeah. Cool.
Think I think this person is who's usually name was Sarah something, did a really good job with this fanfic.
That's great. There you go, listeners, And.
No, there's not a dirty book either. It's totally normal Harry Potter book.
Oh no, not again.
It's called oh god, not again, Oh.
God, not again. There you go, listeners, check it out. Yes, I'm gonna do it.
I'm so enjoying it.
Great. Let's so all right, So you don't know what we're talking about tonight, you have no clue.
Oh no, I haven't.
I told you absolutely jack shit about this one. I figured, you know, the last three episodes have been all serial killery.
Yeah, a lot of ours are.
Yeah, this time I wanted to go whimsical. Is we're going whimsical?
So maybe, like the whimsy of Harry Potter is a connective tissue here.
No correlation I could even think of it all. But they're both I mean whimsical.
Right, That's what I meant.
Let's take a break. We'll be right to it. Listeners, welcome back to the show.
I've never heard of Sandman.
Just jumped the gun because I didn't do the lights are turned down low, Cerreophon, fuck it, Oscar.
I just wanted to because we started, Oscar.
Have you ever seen Oh, we're gonna go with it. Then we're going, Okay, it's late. Have you ever seen what the Netflix series that came out a few years ago called The Sandman?
H Yeah, I think I have seen that.
Yeah, it's it's that show. It's the main character is called dream or Lord Morpheus, who's basically the personification of humanity's dreams, and he has this power to kind of hop in and out of dreams and even control them. Yeah, right, really good show. Yeah, I'm a fan.
I think I know briann O Tarth. Isn't it places?
You're right? That's right for Game of Thrones fans. Really good show. I think aren't they coming out with a season two soon? I hope so?
I think it's on the I hope so. And the serial killer guy with all the.
Good show, So we got this idea of someone who could enter dreams, control humanity's dreams. Right, what about Have you seen the Nick Cage movie called dream Scenario? I love that movie. Yeah, so, Katie and I watched it. It was fun. We had a good time with it.
Some cringey ass moments. So do you think that that scene with the with the girl in the apartment.
Oh, cringey as far as making you uncomfortable? Yes, yeah, not cringely bad?
Oh, I see it's so bad.
I agree.
He's about the cheat on his wife too, that's also bad.
But yes, so we watched it great. It's and actually dream Scenario even makes a brief reference to this thing, this entity this being that we're going to talk about tonight. But basically, in the dream Scenario, Nicholas Cage, who I love, plays this mild manner, dorky biology teacher named Paul Matthews, right, whose life is turned upside down. He kind of has this mundane, boring life. Life is turned upside down when suddenly millions of people all over the world starts seeing
them in their dreams. And Paul Matthews, he takes on these different roles in people's dreams, from benevolent to violent to sexy, just like you were saying when he was with that girl cheat on his wife, that was a dream. And just like with Lord Morpheus in the Sandman series, dream Scenario is based around this really cool idea of the dream surfer, a sentient being that possesses the power to enter, move around, and effect, move around in and
affect people's dreams. And it's this fascinating idea of a dream surfer that gave me the idea for this episode because there just might be a real dream surfer out there right now, and he's known simply as this man, this man, this man.
Oh, I know what we're doing.
Do you know what this is?
I think so. I mean, I don't know the details, so I definitely want to hear more. Okay, but I think I know what you're doing, all right.
Okay, Now, over the last decade or so, maybe you've seen memes about this man, because for a long time he was everywhere. It's this sketch of this very strange looking man with black hair, black eyes, a receding hairline, these huge, bushy eyebrows, and razor thin lips turned up in this creepy little smile, with the words have you seen this man? Or ever dream this man? Written across
the top. It looks almost like a wanted poster you'd find state do a telephone pole or tacked up at your local police station or post office or milk carton or milk carton. Now listeners go to the show notes to see what I'm talking about, because if you're not familiar, you gotta check this this thing out. It's an image
that really resonates with people in strange ways. It's clearly a human face, yet at the same time it's not, And it's this slightly off kilter image of something that's supposed to be human, but at the same time isn't is what gives us this very uncomfortable feeling. Something called uncanny valley. Now uncanny valley, it's a real psychological concept that describes the feeling of unease or even revulsion we humans experience when we see or interact with something that
is almost but not quite human. It's you see this concept a lot when it comes to AI and the AI robot scientists are developing ones that could almost perfectly mimic human expression and human speech, but no matter how hard scientists try, the result is never exactly human looking or exactly human sounding, which really fucks with people. It's like we have this deep rooted, subconscious revulsion to things that try to mimic us humans. We instinctively don't trust
it and feel little empathy towards it. Pretty interesting stuff, this uncanny valley. And I think uncanny valley also applies to the sketch of this man. For whatever reason, deep down, he just gives people the creeps.
I just saw the photo, So now that you see that being a little creepy, especially if I just woke up and I see it, I might be.
Like, it's in your dream. You just remember it from your dream or something.
Yeah, that could be a little right, A little bit like that. We did a show on this one internet, a horror thing on YouTube with it was scrying kids. Uh, I forget, I forget what it was you did here? Yeah? Yeah, oh momo, yeah that momoye.
I remember that episode, the thank you I knew you knew it.
Yeah.
So when you saw this man's photo, do you remember? Is that what you thought we were talking about?
Yes, but so what little I knew about it? I hadn't actually seen a photo, So the wanted poster is a little new to me. But I know this phenomenon, okay, So like that's what I just heard about it. It's not like again, I didn't read a book round or anything.
Got it? Okay? And how does it? So it is a little creepy to you?
Yeah, I mean the photo itself, like by itself, Yes, it's a little creepy. It does it both equal parts? Seems computer generated or made up? And also it could be a real person. Sorry I'm sorry, a pitiable person maybe because I'm sorry you looked that way. But uh yeah, but yes, you know also both I feel like a little bit of both. And you were saying about the Uncanny Valley aspect of little empathy and all that right too, not real things right that are made to look like
something else. I feel like animals get through. There's a lot too, like an equal footing. When you show them a realistic looking but completely fake dog next to your dog, they almost always get freak out. They almost always react.
They don't like it. No, I don't like it.
When you wear that cat mask and a humans walking around wearing it, they get freaked out. You see videos of them for funny and they freak out because they understand it's wrong, like on a nature level. It's like a nature level wrong. It's not just us. There's no logic to it.
I'm going to research that. That's interesting.
It feels like there's no logic to it. It's just it's just saying it's like just nature. We've seen like we're trying to fight nature in this case.
Yeah, we've seen here with our cats. If there was a stuffed animal of a cat, they attack it. They don't like it, they avoid it.
Really you know, Yeah, that sounds right. Damn, that's true with all of them. There's some weird cas I'm sure, but like in general, when you wear something semi realistic looking like that.
It fixed them out crazy and so this is the thing. This is some deep rooted shit. Okay. So background and any information on this man, it's pretty vague. A lot
of stories like this tend to have vague backgrounds, don't they. Well, yeah, Now, in the case of this man, it's said that in two thousand and six, a quote well known psychiatrist in New York sketched the now infamous face based on a description provided by one of his patients, with the patient saying that this thing was haunting his dreams and that the man in the sketch didn't even closely resemble anyone
the patient knew in the real world. Now, as the story goes, this well known psychiatrist, who's never named by the way, left his sketchbook open eyes his desk, and a few days later, another patient sees the sketch of this man and immediately freaks out, saying that he too had been seeing the same man in his dreams uh huh, and realizing that something strange was going on, the psychiatrist passes his sketch to some of his colleagues, and sure enough,
many of their patients were also encountering this man in their dreams too.
Is it like a visual infection? Interests, like a visual virus.
That's that I have a theory later because.
You know, because virus isn't bacteria that exist in so many different levels from coughing, even noise can have a sort of effect on you. Tonight is and stuff like that. Sure frequencies we know that for sure has proven. Can you do that visually? I wonder if that's what this is.
I bet you could. I think you could.
Well, I have one tonight, interesting or tomorrow.
Let us know if you do for sure.
I'm curious, but I don't want to.
I don't want well, there are two listeners. You know, if you look at the photo in.
My Daily Waking life is not marsh enough.
Just ruined your own life with his story, right? If you know, listeners see the photos in the show notes, and something happens with you, you dream it or encounter it, let us know, let us know, contact us.
Yeah, okay, continue to say so again.
The idea of this man is that he's some sort of a dream surfer, someone or some thing that can enter our dreams at will. And although thousands of people from all over the world claim to encountered this man in their dreams. To this day, no one's been able to identify him in the real world as an actual flesh and blood person. And possibly even more strange is that descriptions of encounters with this man are all over the place, kind of like Nicholas Cage's character in Dream Scenario.
Well, it should be sad that in that Dream Scenario film, one hundred percent of all the encounters in people's people he had in dreams with at first were just him watching them, like him, not involved.
It was just that then it progressed.
Like no matter that the person was having a dream, whatever that dream was, he was there just watching, even casually observing, but not doing anything his nuttil later in the movie spoiler that he becomes violent.
Got it. Okay, So this kind of, I guess is similar because in the background a lot of people's dreams, he's a background character, just like Paul Matthews Nicholas Cage you just mentioned, kind of just standing there watching the dreamer with those black eyes and that strange smile. But then in other people's dreams they claim he's been sexual with them. In other instances, he provides the dreamer with
cryptic advice. For example, a lot of stories say this man instructs the dreamer to simply go north, while in other dreams this man is violent, reportedly chasing down and murdering people. And if you look at the sketch and the image that this thing, and imagine this thing chasing
you down and overtaking you, dude. Yeah. Most accounts say this man rarely speaks, except for the whole go north thing, but when he does speak, no one can remember what his voice sounds like, or even if he verbally speaks at all. Some say he communicates telepathically. Now, of course, people have been desperately trying to understand this man's intentions and to understand why he behaves so differently encounter to encounter,
from benign to murderous. All we know is what he looks like, and that thousands of people from all over the world experience him in different, sometimes downright terrifying ways when they dream. Where he comes from and what he wants is anyone's guess. Of course, there's a lot of theories about who or what this man is. One theory is that this man is God. If you take it that way, yes God, Yes, if you take the idea that God is supposed to be the reflection of all
humankind and vice versa. And if you cut the sketch of this man into four parts top, bottom, left, right, like I've done for you guys in the show notes, suddenly this man is many men or all men. If you look at this man from the nose up, he's clearly an old man. Look at the nose down, and he's a young man. And if you separate the left side of his face from the right side, he looks like two completely different people. It really is like this man is every man all rolled into one. Check the
show notes to see what I'm talking about. It's freaky.
It's not wrong, it's kind of freaky. Yeah, I'm looking at it. I'm doing it right now, dividing with my hand.
You see that high line. So that's God, that's every man, the reflection of God. Man is the reflection of God.
Right huh.
Of course that doesn't explain this man killing people or having sex with them in their dreams. But it's a theory. Now, another theory, and I really like this one, is that this man is actually an archetype found in what Swiss psychiatrist and psychoanalyst Carl Jung called the collective unconscious now very briefly, According to Jung, the collective unconscious is a part of our human psyche that contains information inherited from
our ancestors and shared by all humans. Jung believed that experiences of a common past have made deep, permanent impressions on the human mind, and that the collective unconscious contained archetypes, these universal symbols or themes that are present in the mythology and folklore of all cultures all over the globe. Some examples of common archetypes found in the collector of unconscious are the mother figure, seen as virginal and pure,
mothering and supportive, yet seductive, unpredictable, mysterious, and cruel. There's the wise old man archetype, which symbolizes someone that possesses great wisdom, knowledge and judgment. There's the water archetype, symbolizing life, cleansing, mystery, and even death. And the tree of life archetype represents the source of life, the cycle of life, harmony, balance.
Then there's the shadow archetype and the trickster archetype. Now, the shadow archetype consists of our behavior, traits, that we see as negative, and we tend to hide these shadow archetypes from others because it's our source of stress and shame. Our repressed ideas, weaknesses, wants, sexual desires, animal instincts, and
are perceived these are all found in the shadow archetype. Now, the trickster archetype represents the irrational, chaotic, and unpredictable side of our thoughts and behavior, as well as humanity's duality are the fact that we're capable of greatness and evil, of being virtuous and deceitful, of being able to love and hate. So the theory is that this man is actually a subconscious archetype personified likely the shadow or the trickster,
or a combination of the two. And I really like this theory, the idea that there's something we're experiencing on a subconscious level in our waking lives. Some problem or issue is personified in our dreams as this man to
kind of help us deal with our issues. But at the same time, uncanny Valley makes us weary and even afraid of this man, so we're never able to fully reconcile whatever's bothering us, like our subconscious is fighting itself I think this is kind of really interesting theory and concept.
That is cool. It does remind me of something else that will require and another animal example.
What is it?
But I think attracts a little bit. Have you ever given or shown a pickle to a cat?
Not a pickle? But I think we've done because we see if theyternet cucumbers, same thing. They hate them.
They hate them, you know why?
No, they think there are snakes subconscious.
So animals have this. Birds, for example, they grow up when they leave the nest. They don't get instructions on how to build a nest. They just know how to do it from generations of birds. There you go, right, you can use that same if I use that same logic with humans. And obviously we're more much more complex in many ways and self aware, not to mention, I think that this could serve as a way that's collective unconsciousness. It could be like genetic information passed down unbeknownst to
us in ways that we maybe don't understand. For example, like the human eye. I read this somewhere. The human eye can see more shades of green than any other color because we evolved from primates and in the jungle we had to discern those differences. We still have that from so long ago. We still have that ability. It's not like that's went away. It's not like we see more red now, No, we see green the most. And I think with that same logic you can apply it
to this man being well, what is it? That narrative like answering that question is where you can go anywhere to what you said, which could explain a lot of where deitious lord, legend, folklore, especially if not religion, can come from from whatever this person used to be, if it was a person, right, you know, it's like that, and that makes it feel like more very interesting, fucking weird. Yeah, that could be cool. Right, So I like it. I connecting that.
You're right, it does track. That's very interesting. This was This was a fun one. Yeah, researching. Okay, good, good, good. So you're into it so far? Yes, okay, Now how about something called the dream imitation theory. Now, while I like the theory about archetypes and the shadow and the trickster, I think something called the dream imitation theory makes the most sense when trying to describe what this man is. Now.
This theory is really simple. The dream imitation theory says that people only dream about this man after hearing about him and seeing his picture. That seeing his picture and hearing his story leaves an imprint in people's subconscious, probably due to uncanny Valley, and that image is then expressed in dreams. I'm sure we've all had this happen one time or another, where maybe we see something on TV right before we fall asleep and bam, it's in our
dream that night. Right, to me, this theory makes the most sense, kind of like the virus or what you were saying earlier, I get a dream this tonight right because we talked about it same thing here. I think that makes the most sense.
Also, I feel like maybe what goes in hand in hand with that that could support this theory is that maybe because of the simplicity and yet uniqueness of the sketch, that upon hearing the story, maybe not so much the story, but watching or looking at the picture, it is it makes a veritable imprint into your mind more than any other random thing like the poster behind your head, or your bottles or booze on that wall, because it isn't familiar,
right right, and it it imprints it fatter. It makes it easier for people to recollect it in a dream the day after, the night the night of, or a week later, and therefore report it or talk about it, and it becomes like snowballs itself and two lore that we're here today.
Interesting talking about it. Yeah, yeah, maybe who knows? No, you're good, that's right now. Over the years, of course, people have searched our world, the real world, for inspiration behind this man, like the actual flush and flesh and blood person that inspired this man. As it turns out, there are people out there who just might be the inspiration behind this man, and actually quite a few, and
I've chosen four four people who this might be. Again, check the show notes, because I've created images comparing this man to each of the people we're going to talk about. Actually it's three people and an object. You'll see what I mean. Anyway, check out the photos. All right, So the first one Carl Sagan. Okay, Carl Sagan. One possible culprit is world famous astronomer, astrophysicist, and science communicator, the
late doctor Carl Sagan. Now, in case you don't know, at one point, doctor Sagan was the most well known scientist in the country, if not the world before Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Yeah, he Keep Your Herd Out one of those books.
Yeah, yeah, I did too, I did too, And he's probably Sagan is probably most famous for his research and the possibility of extraterrestrial life and for a thirteen part television series he did in the eighties called Cosmos a Personal Voyage, which has been viewed by almost half a billion people worldwide. Just massive reach. Actually, there's so much to talk about regarding Sagan's work and his contributions to science and the search for aliens that we just don't
have time to even put a dent. But unfortunately, it's Sagan's eyebrows, his receding hairline, and big forehead that make him this man suspect. And when you put the two side by side, you can really see a resemblance. And what I really like about the car Sagan is this man theory is that doctor Sagan was so whimsical, his theories so out there, and his contributions to the search for et life were so vast. Wouldn't it just be perfect if he somehow lived on as this man.
Also could be perfect that an alien would choosing I'm like amalgamation of the human that's closest to understanding or looking for them to like imparent their nature unto us, because it's so weird an alien exactly.
The other thing that the whole alien aspect with Sagan think of him. Not that he necessarily talked about men in black, but a lot of encounters people have with men in black. Supposedly, you know, they're like, they look like the man, the man, but something was just off, maybe very uncomfortable.
Okay.
They just didn't act the same way we would act. They didn't dress the same way we would dress. Their facial expressions didn't match how ours what ours would do? You know, That's what it reminds me. I just go. Here's another possible suspect. Rich and famous for his work on the Broadway plays Cats, Jesus Christ, superstar Avedra Joseph, an amazing technicolor dream coat fan of the opera in School of Rock. Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber is also famous
for possibly being the inspiration behind this man. Really now, I'm sorry, but Sir Andrew Lloyd Rubber is a really odd looking dude. Just go to the show notes with his weird lips, bushy eyebrows, high forehead more like a five head, and his receding hairline. When I put his photo next to the sketch of this man, the resemblance literally gave me the chills. Check the show notes you'll see what I mean. I do not want to have a dream starring Sir Andrew Lloyd rubber running and hunting
me down. No, thank you, very scary.
Well, you're an active dreamer, you can play back, no problem.
I am a lucid dreamer. Lucid I could I could control it, to wake up from it on my command. If I don't like the way it's going, I could say I can do that sometimes change it. Yep, yep, that's always I've always been. Yeah. Now, next we have Michael J. Anderson. Do you know what that is? No, it sounds though, okay, who's best known for his role as the Man from Another Place in David Lynch's awesome television series Twin Peaks and from the movie Twin Peaks Fire Walk with Me.
I mean, I've seen all that's one of my favorite shows.
Both from the early nineties. Right, Yeah, loved it. The Man from Another Place is that tiny character that lived in the Black Lodge. He dressed in the red suit. Oh yeah, yeah, that's yes, and from another.
Places and who very creepily words out of all these people so far him, I can immediately envision check as he talks backwards. Yes, well forward, but it's like we recorded backwards and said forward. It's like one of those weird effects.
The actor isn't talking backwards.
Well, he does talk backwards in reality, but then they play that forward and that's why it sounds so weird.
That's how they did it.
Yeah, it's like some weird trick where they it's either said backwards and played forward, which I don't think so, I think it's said backwards and played words or whatever.
I just remember he was like, yeah, that's why I was like, I would get the goosebumps every time he talked. That's Michael Anderson. So if I guess, if you know, you know right kids, ask your parents right now. Michael Anderson. He was born with a genetic disorder called osteogenesis imperfecta, a disease that leads to frequent breaks and long bones and improper healing, which ultimately left Michael with the shortened stature of only three feet seven inches three feet seven inches.
His short stature and misshapen head lent a heavy creep factor to his Twin Peaks character, and if you compare his photo to the sketch of this man, there is a resemblance. And Michael J. Anderson is often credited as being the inspiration behind this man.
And he's obviously super famous among a lot of things. He's done a lot of movies, especially with David Lynch, but arguably his most famous thing is that he appears in in an FBI agent's dream. Oh twin p I'm saying he's famous for appearing in dreams. You know what I'm saying.
Good point. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't write you just describe.
That scene while he's talking backward. That's the dream. That agent was his name.
Oh god, he's gonna kill me.
Damn coffee fuck whatever, his famous whatever.
No, great point, he's in the dream. So yeah, a lot of people credit him with being So that's just one more peg for Michael J. Anderson. Yeah, he appears in people's dreams.
Okay, finally, as far next to Robert England for appearance, Well.
There's some Freddie esque to this to ask, you know, not he's violent, but the final one, It's not a human. I like it because it plays heavily with this idea of uncanny uncanny Valley, where we as humans are again subconsciously programmed to be leery of things that are made to look human. And what better example than an old
school ventriloquist dummy. Oh now, This particular dummy was featured in two Twilight Zone episodes, one titled The Dummy from nineteen sixty two, where the dummy was named Willie, and another episode called Caesar in Me from nineteen sixty four, where the dummy was named well, Caesar. Now, even though both episodes have different plots, there is a common thread of the dummy having free will, and in both episodes it torments and manipulates the ventriloquist in different frightening ways.
Oh so it's a bitch, it's an asshole.
Yes, now, I rewatched both of these episodes before I scripted this episode, and they're they're awesome. They're so good for their time. I I mean no other you can't incomparable. Rod Serling fantastic, Highly recommend both episodes. Check them out anyway.
If you look at the image I left from the show notes, there are a lot of similarities between this man and the Twilight Zone Dummy, and you add that creepy, uncanny Valley factor, and considering this dummy is famous and it's old, it predates the games of this man, I think this very well could be the real inspiration behind this Man. Listeners, check the show notes. Let us know what you think. Contact at Chicago Ghost podcast dot com.
And just so you know, the dummy, the Twilight Zone Dummy is alive and well and living in David Copperfield's International Museum of Library of the Conjuring Arts in Las Vegas. International Museum and Library of the Conjuring Arts in Las Vegas.
The National Library of Pithy Titles dot com.
So the dummy still exists now. Alas as intriguing as the story is, this man might be nothing more than a well orchestrated hoax. You see, in two thousand and eight, an Italian sociologist and marketer named Andrea.
You're like marker like? I heard that word in italics?
Have it in italics right now? Marketer of his name was Andrea Natella. He created a website called Thisman dot org. And it's this website that gave us the story of the unnamed, well known psychiatrist from New York and how he created the famous sketch based off his patrons description it's all on this website, and it's this website that
described how this man looks and how he acts. And after this man went viral, Natella opened up and admitted he made the whole thing up at a gorilla marketing campaign to explore the power of the Internet's ability to create and spread urban legends and collective myths.
So like creepypasta stuff.
Yes, Natella even admitted that the sketch of this man was based off a photograph he had his own father when his father was a young man. And for whatever reason, just like with Creepy Pasta and slender Man, the image of this man resonates with people on this deep level. And from there, the Internet did what it does best. It commandeered Natella's creation, pure fiction given a massive boost
by the Internet, nothing more, nothing less. Or maybe this man really is a dream surfer and what happened with Natella was reverse dream imitation theory. In other words, this man entered Natella's dreams, which in turn inspired Natella to create the website and the image and the story which brought this man to the masses, and now he's everywhere. He's real, and people all over the world are experiencing
him at their most vulnerable time while they're asleep. And maybe this man is out there right now surfing Young's collective unconscious, waiting for the next person to fall asleep. All right, this man and that's this this is this is. I like this one. I like this one. I like
the concept of a dream surfer. I like the concept of this common theme that people have all over the world at their most vulnerable time, and are experiencing this common theme at their most vulnerable time while they're asleep. I just love that idea.
It is no, it is cool, it's nifty. It is Freddy Krueger ask in some way. If anything, it's limiting for Fredday Krueger. I feel like he's thinking too small. These kids on Illmon Street.
You go for it.
You can expand yourself world. Why to fucking throw We need some marketing. You need Nuttle over there to do it for you. Yeah, I was.
Like, was his name Nutella? Right?
Yeah? No, it's it's cool. It reminds me also, well, the other thing we talked about so far, which is much closer to what I'm about to say, there is this. I mean, the nine n Stream movies are dumb, but they're really cool in concept and the way it can be funny and horrifying, the way dreams can go crazy. But one of those things is that in the sixth movie I want to say, Uh, Freddy, is that there's a whole aspect to it where there are these like weird demons of a sorts that are like, they give
Freddy Krueger demons. Yes, they give created Freddy Krueger's powers. And these demons could be very easily be personified to be like that Netflix show Just Sandman. That could be more Morpheus, or it could be the dream God or you know, a night like It feels like it could be an amalgamation of that, or one of his foot soldiers gives Daku the power to antro dreams as a gatekeeper of sorts. Now, the movie doesn't try to make
sense out of it. It's really dumb, but it's but it's like another angle to something that we will never I shouldn't say never, but never really understand because dreams are so like infallible, like they're just they're there and you can never grab them. It's like water trying to grab water, you know. So like it's it's it's almost like uh uh, it's proof that's evident proof or whatever, tamper proof whatever, like you can't poke holds in it because it doesn't exist. Like it's so it's so weird
and it makes it cool. That's my point. It makes it cool. It makes it. It just makes it adds a layer. And in that movie they were just doing it to be fun. I remember he still though, Yeah, my god, I remember those glasses, but it was still an added layer. And I thought it was cool thinking about not in sense of Freddy Kruger, but in just other ways. And it was cool. I liked that. It reminds me of Samman and this story.
It's interesting and they could take on other shapes o their forms.
Yeah maybe, yeah right, I love it. So you like I do good one.
I hope listeners liked it. Yeah, it feels like it was a shorter one.
But that's okay. I'm okay with Oh yeah, no, I'm okay with that too. I do something if you want, we don't have to. I do not often, but I occasionally viably dream. I don't have control on my dreams, but I do dream. Almost every time I dream is something very bizarre. By very bizarre, I just mean it's rarely anything bland or boring at least the ones I remember. And what I try to do is as soon as I wake up, I do my very most to write it down.
Do you remember we did this?
Yeah? We did this before we do this for Patreon? Was it for Patreon?
Where we we we kept dream journals? Oh?
Really?
And then we talked about it and we went into depth about dreaming, and yes we did. And then we at the very maybe we.
Could we do that show or something.
I would love to do that again. That was a lot of fun.
Yeah, it was a lot of fun. I'm pretty sure I still have those old ones.
I still have it.
Oh you still have it's even better? Well, then, maybe I shouldn't say I was going to offer a weird dream that I had that has nothing to do with this. Oh, I don't dream. I don't dream of a man yeah, or anything man ride with the thin lips and ship. No, I didn't dream that, But but I've had a weird ones. No, I will save it. That's even better in case we do a dream episode, because I write a lot like this is a lot.
Oh well so it's a lot.
So no, I'll save it. That's cool. Thank you reminding me. I was gonna say, were talking about dreams, I could offer a weird dream, but I could offer right next we in a better, more thematic thing.
Yeah, for that Patreon episode, it's been it's been a while. It might have been during COVID or pre COVID. Anyway, we journaled for about a week. I'd wake up and just jot down whatever the hell, and it was some weird STU it was. Yeah, it was interesting. Yeah, Yeah, that was fun. We got in a different type of dreams and interpretations of common themes and dreams.
I think, let see Raven wasn't that one.
I think she was? Yeah? Yeah, okay, cool, So maybe we should revisit that.
Yeah, that'd be fun.
Cool. Well, I'm glad you liked it, listeners, I hope you liked it. If you have any feedback, contact at Chicago Ghost podcast dot com ghost or call eight seven to two five two nine zero seven six seven oscar take us home.
Don't use that number, okay, are you spaghetti.
Sounds good? Does that mean? Yes? I found out food and like it's like a It's literally like a drug for me.
Food is like, oh, I say, as a coping thing or something like that.
Yeah, I mean changing making these changes that I have in my life, it affects you like I would imagine. I've never withdrawn from drugs. I've never withdrawn from alcohol, never been an addict, but I would imagine that's what addicts go through with the wild mood swings, the anger, the sadness, the manic happiness, the it's crazy. It's fucking food.
Yeah, I mean also is I mean sugar is a huge one component and food for the addicting essence, especially processed. If you can't imagine, I mean, I can't imagine.
You'll have to ship we here is outlawed in other countries, like you won't find it in Europe. You know, it's been really hard. That's when you said like spaghetti, I'm like fucking spaghetti. What I'm trying to think? Man?
I also saw the have you ever heard of twin films? Twin films is like a phenomenon that happens in Hollywood. Doante's peak? Uh, there you go Doante's Peak volcano and then Deep Impact Andaghetti. Yeah, those are the classic ones. There's a new there's a this one that just came out a few months ago. The first Omen and Immaculate.
Oh okay, first Omen. Loved it, loved it.
It was fun.
Thought it was great.
I thought it was fun. Yes, and it was a great way, great twist on the prequel. It was that kind of cool. So Immaculated very similar vibes. Both take place in Italy or something both about a nun about non being pregnant. Also her attractiveness or being attractive is part of the thing, and it's about a weird convent where they do shady shit. It's very similar vibes. They're twin films for sure, and they came out within a month of each other.
Because so I haven't seen that one.
Yeah, I liked Immaculate, did you. I didn't love it, but I love it.
I heard the ending was lacking, wanting more sort of thing. I don't know.
I feel like a lot of moves to that. I don't know. I guess it didn't bother me.
Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen it. Liked Domen. That's why I heard about a maculate. So I didn't. I haven't watched it, but maybe i'll check it out. I really liked omen. Well, then we had The Pope Exorcist. Now we got this other one with Russell Crowe.
Yeah, the Ectocism.
Yeah, so where everyone was like part two.
No, it is not at all. It's about the making of a movie that's like The Anciocist.
Is that what it's about.
Oh, yeah, it's about he's an actor playing like the priest in the He's playing father Merrick Maren Maren Man. He's playing like the father Marin type in a movie that's like The Axiosist, but it's not the actio and then that production gets haunted and he gets possessed. It's kind of cool, but it has nothing to do with the Popeist.
Got it? Well, they sure marketed to kind of look that way. It did.
I think they're fucking with us.
Okay, so that reminds Nicholas Cage Uh, Archurians, Centurions, oh Manchurians, No, No, Circadian.
Arcadian hated it. I didn't see it. I was I almost saw it, and then you told me you didn't like it. Oh, we did talk about that one no, you're texted me like you sucked. That's all you told me.
I don't know why it sucked, but I had such high hopes. Man, it looked so good. He has a cage.
Of course, Yeah right, well, Okage, it's really up in the air. It's flip a coin on him.
How could an And that was my whole Nicholas Cage horror film with these with creatures.
I mean, not eveything's mandy.
How could it be boring? It was fucking boring. And what really made me wanted to see it. I was reading an article it was like on dread Dread Central or something, and it said that the director, the creator whoever got the idea from the for the monsters off of Goofy from Disney. Oh, and I'm like, I gotta see this. So the first two times you see the monsters, you're like, whoa, that's crazy. Never seen something like that before.
Then you're like, fucking stop already, it's enough. Yeah, if you ever see it, you'll see what I'm saying.
I've no idea. What about if I'm gonna say it, well.
It's the so the monsters, their their face, their mouth. You could if you think goofy. You could see it. But their whole thing is like they open and close their mouths really really fast, and it makes this like.
So think of like we've seen that one Goofy skid, the one goofy skit where he is he's in court for for a first degree murder of murdering all these children in the school bus and he's like, quash, I'll do it again. I love blood, like in that voice though that it's like an online YouTube sketch thing. It's so hilarious, and the and the lawyer is like, you're on there. My client's insane, clearly has no responsibility for
his actions, and please exonerate him. He's he's very sick, and he's like, I'll do it again, don't let me out, Like, oh my god, it's so funny because he's doing the goofy voice and it's just it's blood on them still. It's yeah, fucking great.
Not good. I really want to see long legs dying to see language. Yeah.
I saw a trailer. I didn't spoil anything, thankfully. It's just like a very ethereal, a very weird trailer. I mean they're up in there. You just don't know it's like Nicholas Cach movie, you just don't know what you're going to get.
I was.
I saw The Bike Riders, and I hated that I saw that trailer because it picked it a different movie than it was.
I'm like, wait, bike Writers, you mean with Jar.
Yeah, Austin Butler and Tom Hardy.
And it wasn't good.
Oh I liked the movie. It wasn't great, though, I feel like it has some problems. But it takes place in Chicago. There's sixties, I mean, gives me a lot of those those awesome vibes for sure. It just doesn't lead anywhere that I thought it was going again one because of the trailer, and trailer made it seemed like those just like like the Good Fellows of Bike Riders, but it's not. It's but it's not right, but it's not and like it makes you want to watch Goodfellows,
but not necessarily The Bike Riders. Like I said, I had some fun with it. I think you like it, maybe, I mean, maybe you could love it. Maybe I'm seeing it way off too, But I just remember feeling more disappointed or equal parts disappointed as I thought it was cool. So it was like a mixed back.
Hum, well that so I thought it was gonna be fantastic.
Yeah, I mean I love that director. You did some really good movies. Who was the directer, Nicholschaels something Nichols for guys, Jeff Nichols. He did Midnight Special and he saw that he did Take Shelter, some movie I showed you.
With Michael Shannon.
Yes, he has those prophetic dreams of the end.
Yeah, he did that movie. I think I remember liking that movie.
Yeah, I think you liked that. Yeah, that was on the time I got.
Show it to Take Shelter. No.
The first one Midnight Special that's with that's an old Michael Shelter Michael Shannonson. It's about the kid who like has like these alien powers and the government's trying to go after him, but he's living in a in a cult, like in a Christian cult that's like worshiping him and trying to use him for but the governments after him. Michael Shannon's the father trying to break him out of that.
I swear, I know. I think you're seeing it because we like Michael Shannon. So if a movie comes out and watch it. Except the Iceman, I didn't really like The Iceman, but I didn't love anither Arcadian. I really want to see Talia saw the New m Night shamal in one.
I saw the Watchers.
Yeah, the Watchers. Yeah, she liked it.
Yeah, it's fun. It's not like an actual horror movie. I I would call it more of a mystery thriller.
I'm good with that.
Yeah, then you're good. Yeah, it's almost it's almost like a movie good for kids too. It's very like it's not trying to like show a lot, like all the DA's are kind of off screen in the moment, like they cut away, which is good, which is fine. Again, it's more of a mystery. I like the mystery in the end. I don't know if you'll find it ridiculous.
I liked it.
It's supernatural, which is cool.
Great. Yeah, we were gonna go see that in the movie, which we just never did. Fun. There's two Shyamalan movies, right.
So that's not him, that's his daughter.
That's what it was.
That's she's a Nepple baby. She wrote and directed it, and then her father M. Knight produced it and obviously made it happen, which one the Watchers what we think.
I thought there were two Chamalan movies.
So there is one that he's having this year. It's not out yet, though.
What's it called?
I forget?
I did too, but didn't we see a preview for it?
I think I might have. I don't remember. I can see the choir place one. Yeah, got this weekend?
Of course? Oh does it?
I think that's this week? I'm pretty sure.
Yeah, of course.
I really want to see Maxine. That's the one.
I really want to see. M A X s X Pearl. Yeah, what's her name?
Mia Goth that's it?
Yeah, Yeah, i'd watch it.
I really want to. It's you know, it's about the Nightstalker, right, did not?
Yeah? Yeah?
It takes place in La during the Nice Talker and the seventies eighty or whatever. And she's like, I mean, it's all very whatever. It's not going to be based on reality, but like that's what it looks like. The news are in the trailer are talking about the nice Talkers out there killing women, and she's out there at night, you know, and a woman, So like it's gonna be
like I don't know, what's I don't know. I haven't seen a preview for it, but it just looks cool, looks stylistic, it looks eighties looks like Yeah, I want to see that too, Yes, of course, I mean that's gonna make so much money.
We Keaton.
Yeah, I saw Inside Out too? Also.
Uh, they Italian gave Italian whoever she went with, They went yesterday or the day before. You see it. They loved it. Yeah, it's great. I saw twice, did you really?
Yes, I like the first one and if you watch it, you'll be like, that's me really, like that's my lead emotion right there.
Oh I got to see it. Yeah.
We did a review on it and it just came out yesterday and we spent like an hour talking about that fucking movie.
Wow, all right, Yes, they loved it. They said it was sad. Oh yeah, yeah, I'll definitely watch it. We watched the first one. What else am I excited about? Series? Let's talk about on Apple TV. There's a Jake Jillenhall roadhouse. I saw that.
It's on Prime.
You know what. It was fun? It was fun?
Well, like, yes, it was fun. I had fun with it. There's some kind of wacky direction with the punching and stuff, like the first camera pe will be punching thing that they did in the movie.
Yeah, I like that.
That was kind of weird and wacky. I wouldn't say that the action whiled me. Beyond that point, I kind of wish it was better. Really, I thought it was great, but no, no, but it was still fun. It was like fun and I liked it.
You know.
I think it tried to be a little too gritty when it didn't have to. But ultimately, I'm like, I think the reason I don't love this movie the way I liked the original is because just Patrick Series is just much more charming than J. J.
Lehull.
Like, I found him way more convincing in a ridiculous role like this then J. J. Leholl. Really yeah, I think ultimately J. Hull is trying it is like he's he's like two Emo, maybe more than Swaysey. Was interesting because I was like, maybe it's the lead. I think how I think? I like, I think it's just the leading man. I'm like, I think I just prefer Swayzy in it.
Huh.
You know well?
I mean, of course that pushed us to go and watch the first one again. Could it have been?
I saw it too before I saw it like a week before.
It was great. Yeah, Don Henley? Is it Don Henley the Blind? He just died? No, he didn't just die, he died a while ago. The band. Oh yes, yes, yes, I used to listen to his music. It's Done Henley, I think. So, I don't know.
I'm bad with me.
It's fantastic. It's just so eighties. It's so great. So we had fun with it. I fucking hate Connor McGregor. I hate he is Who was that? Connor McGregor was the main villain in in the New One? Yeah?
Oh the UFC fighters. So I heard Bob told me that he's an actual fighter. Oh yeah, And I didn't know that because I don't know about that's huge. I didn't know anything about him. It was my first time watching him.
Yep, he's garbage. He was wacky in that movie, crazy the way he wants it.
Yeah, so what do you hate him? He's crazy?
Why?
He's just a pukey.
He's just a puke. So I like that. But Jake Jonhall, there's this series called Presumed Innocent, and that's the TV.
It's really I get a lot of trailers for that.
It's good.
I just don't know if I'm ready for that kind of mystery right now. I saw a trailers that looks like one of those kinds of movie shows on my own. I don't know if I want something he does. You know what else is Chakawa that I really love? That's also on Apple TV. I saw Dark Matter Matter.
What I stopped?
Where did you stop?
Third episode? I'm like, I can't do this anymore? Why not? If I hear this one more time, I'm gonna fucking shoot myself.
The Lifelick it's like three times an episode is not that much to its not that much?
Oh my, I don't like it. We tried, I really tried.
It gets so much better if you can get to the last two episodes, it goes fucking bonkers. Really yeah, it does.
But you know, maybe maybe it's been because we tried. We did try.
It's so good.
I love that.
I want to be the Bolg now because there's may it's based by an author that I read one of his other books with Kerchon, which is badass.
I remember, like, oh I've heard of that author or something. This is this is uh?
He actually like wrote and directed the show a lot too, so he's like his first time involved in it.
Okay, all right, So maybe maybe we'll give it a try at some point, but I just couldn't take it anymore. It's very hard.
I definitely don't take drugs at all, and this is like acid or something, oh, coke sometimes?
Ah?
Okay, waity spaghetti.
Yeah. One hundred and fifty five, one fifty five. What did you say last episode? Right? This is one fifty five?
Yeah? Did you say something else before?
No?
Okay, Then I.
Wrote one fifty four because I didn't know when I wrote this, I didn't know I was going to have an update episode.
Oh I see, Oh I see.
So it's one forty five.
Okay, is no difference?
No, no, but we just did one for the four yes, okay, So I'm gonna say one
Five, yes, yes, all right, let's do this and five four, three two