Episode 154: UPDATES Long Island Serial Killer

Welcome to the one hundred and fifty fourth episode of the Supernatural Occurrence Studies podcast, So Damn Paranormal. My name is Jason Knight, host of the show, and with me as always is Oscar Spector. Right. I think that's what it was. I think producer extraordinaire and podcast co host. Six months, dude, it's been six months since we've been on these mics, going

on seven. You know, that's like I don't know how many thousands of mayflies lifetimes, you know, you know they die in less than twenty four hours. Mayfair Witches, Mayfair Witches. That was a series we were watching and I liked. Oh okay, Before we jumped down the mic, we spent like an hour and a half talking about some three hours ago movies and series we've been watching since because I haven't seen you since December. Oh yeah, it's been that long. Yeah, so you catch a Mayfair witch?

As you say, may flies, Mayfair Yeah, yeah, crazy, six months. A lot has been going on. This is going to be kind of an update episode on an election year of folks. Yes it is get out and vote. I'm not talking politics, but this is going to be a catch up episode on the Long Island Serial Killer. I thought that was more of a cats up episode. What was the joke from what pulp fiction?

And that's like roughly of that joke. It's like baby Tomato milet they made a baby by Tomato walking on the street and gave baby tomato slap. Yeah, that's what she said. It's like lagging behind and the father goes switches it and says, catch up. That's what it was. That's something dumb. It's so much better when Uma says it. Well it's Uma, mm hmm. Yeah. UMA's kind of out now. It's her daughter Maya. Yeah, she's kind of the she's kind of been there on Apple Baby.

A lot of them popping up in these days. Yeah, there is a lot. But we're already getting off track here, Yeah we are. So how have you been man? Six months? So I've been in a deep dark hole. So you know how people are do crazy things in the world, like these little individual personal achievements in the world that are sometimes they're consequential, sometimes they make the headlines. Most times they're just famous maybe to their neighbors. Right, I'm trying to dig a hole from the United States

to China for the last six months. How about five percent of the way there. Yeah, that's what I've been doing. Better than what I've been doing. I have no idea where I was going with that, and I didn't. I was, what the fuck are you talking about? I don't know what, don't I know? I'm making it up. I've done nothing. It's six months do nothing? Yeah, pretty much kind of the same thing. I make legos, I watch movies, I play games, I quit and start new jobs. Let's see what I do. That's really so

inconsequential. Yeah, yeah, yeah, anything we do in the big picture is very inconstantub that's true. We just got back from New Orleans, like literally four days ago. Back from New Orleans. You were like you while your vacation, You're like, hey, when I get back, do you want to record and my new phone? Who is not into that? I said? Yeah? Sure? Yeah, yeah, Well, I mean six months a lot has been going on with this case. That's just Long Island

serial colored case spoiler. If you read the title of this episode, you know what it's about. That's right, that's right. A few people wrote us and said, hey, you got to do an update episode. You know they were right. People still remember our account and our existence. That's crazy there, super fans. Believe it or not, this time we actually mean we got stuff in the in the bank. We're gonna have some releases coming. I think we said that last time. That's what I'm saying,

because this time we mean it. We actually have stuff. I had it back then, I can written, ready to go. We'll record it and get it out. Anyone who's stuck around with us this long, with these gaps that we've been taking, man, we really appreciate it. That's some loyalty. Now go tell all your friends, right especially if you want to wait a little bit until we have a few more in the bank so you can come back and tell your friends, like what they have these latest ones

right here. You don't have to you know, you don't have to do the waiting. It's done. He's next for you. Are out. It's like those those Netflix series that just release everything at once, as opposed to waiting. You know, The Bear, the new season got dropped today. Yes, in an entirety, is it really? Oh yeah, I almost. I started planning my day today around the Bear, around to watch all of the Bear at least half maybe half now half or three Season three.

Yeah, and and then I realized, like, oh, I have to record today. Damn jay fuck the one. So the Bear for those who don't know it's based, is it Al's beef. I think it's It's like Als beef. It's got to be l It's a famous Chicago beef stand. You know. Els is one of the the ones who are in always fighting who came up to Chicago beef first, and Als is one of those that are always up there in the top saying, no, we were the ones that invented the Italian beef blah blah blah. I don't know if it's saying

it's about the invented of no, but Al's the restaurants. It's like a type Yeah, who brought the Italian beef to Chicago? But yeah, that's what it's about. It's about a beef stand, well in Chicago. It's loosely about a bestand's about the guy's passionate inspiration leading to the creation of something where by all Rice, based on his history with his family, maybe surprised

that he can do it at all. Honestly, Yeah, yeah, but he's like this calling this culinary whiz steps down from these very prestigious roles to run this beef stand, which I think is whose brother based off committed suicide and inherited to him. By the way, that's how it was fast start spoiler alert, I'm not sure episode so anyway, go check out the bear. But yeah, yeah, otherwise, Yeah, I just got back from the Orleans. Family's doing great. My daughter just turned sixteen years old.

To listeners who've been with us for since, we can hear the gray hair from here. Remember my daughter years ago on this show in her little squeaky voice talking. I should look up those episodes. Now. I just got her car for her sixteenth birthday. So she's out there driving and it's insane. Before people ask tell him what they'm making. Model obviously not not to play. It was a Kia twenty eighteen Kia Optima. Beautiful car shop.

I respect the bullpick. Beautiful car, fully loaded and we're talking sun roof level seats. I don't give a shit about leather seats, but all the technology and the safety features and this beautiful blue color and super low minded five thousand miles. Man, we got a got a good one for her. So yeah, it's crazy, it's crazy. My son turned eleven. He's he's still great, you know. Yeah, my nephew is almost eleven too. Oh right, Leo. So another time goes, time goes, and

time leavesy behind. It really does, and you just don't realize it until these milestone things happened where ship she's got her license. Now she's out there. Hey, I'm gonna go to the store. I'm gonna go pick up some and taxis Dad, you're back. You know, it's just you're like, wow. But you know, the first night when she got her license, she went out the very first time, and I just stood outside and just watched her back out. She waved, of course, I'm super emotional.

And there she goes down the streets at nighttime, so you see her break lights and just something in that one instant changed. You're not so much

needed any longer. They're more independent. But ten minutes later she sent me in Katie a text saying I'm terrified without you guys, and that just you don't want them to be right in that moment, Yeah, yeah, that you've you know that you were there for her, that you always protected her, and now that you're not there, she realizes and recognizes, holy shit, mom and dad aren't here. This is this is very scary. Yeah, but uh yeah, so that that happened. That's crazy. That happened.

We bought her boyfriend, brought her boyfriend in New Orleans with us. You bought a boyfriend for your daughter? No, that would be prostitution. I guess she got a boyfriend and they've been together over a year I think now, and took them to New Orleans with us, which was challenging to accept at first, but I finally did it and it was great. I'll say that's my parents will never be that cool. Yeah. Yeah, uh and it all worked out fantastic. He's a great kid, No, he

is. He's pretty cool. So that's kind of what's been going on with me. Job situation sucks, although don't tell him I said that, right, yeah, never let them again. Jesus Christ. You're saying, no, just job situation sucks. Not even to talk about that hard hard card ditto. I made new Legos, that's really all you said. S At the end, Lego people would would kill you. Why because you're not supposed to. It's not Legos. It's like the Ukraine and Ukraine they can find

me. I'm just saying I made you legos. That's Ukraine and the Ukraine that you're right, that's what I know. The Ukraine symbolizes Russian Russian owners connection. Yeah, Ukraine is independent. Uh, very good. That's why I said, a lot of people realize it. Thank you. When I watch movies or maybe legos are not a big deal, is my point again in the grand scheme of things, right, compared to Ukraine. But I always went up watching movies or even the news and they say Ukraine, I'm

like, you do that. If you do that thing from that movie, that's great. So anyway, Yeah, other than that, been writing, man, Like I said, I've got some episodes in the bank. Excited about that? How about you? What's the return on that? What's the what's the like interest rate on that bank? Not enough? Not enough? Huh. I also have to I have two shows ready, ready to go. It's whenever, you know. And I'm in the middle of two other ideas I started, or two other ones that I've half written already. So

yeah, that's what I'm good with ideas. I'm not gonna call it right. Well, listeners, keep a listening and tell your friends you know who I love Gypsy Rose. What I know that Gypsy Rose Blanchard, the Munchausen. Yes, oh, I mean you love I love it. I love everything about it. So you saw that show? Every one of them? I want you to do documentary and uh oh did you see Wait? Which is a new one. It's a they I don't I don't, I forgot the title. Okay, but it's you know, her Life after Prison,

right, There's been a few of those already. This is the newest one. I think it's lifetime. Why are you obsessed with it? I don't know what it is. I saw one of those shows, the Hulu one, and I thought it was crazy cool. I mean, that's fucked up that happened. I mean I stopped. I mean I didn't care anymore. Yeah, me and Katie watch it religiously. I think Katie doesn't like her. I'm just I love it. I think anyone raised like that probably cannot

be liked in real life, and I feel sorry for that person. But that's all I can really say. Oh about Gypsy, Yeah, it's hard to be raised like that and be likable. I like it, you know, I would be a good person, even I mean not saying she is there isn't. I believe what you want, but it's hard to get everything right, is my point? Right? Yeah, but she had a ask me anything am I wasn't on ready, it was on Instagram. I was gonna be answering him on YouTube. So I sent her a message, do

you want to be a guest on the show? Cool? But yeah, So that's that's up I'm into right now. I mean, how how are we going to spin that to to fit our t our podcast? Don't know? Okay, I just did it. I was not working on that in case she says yes, start working on the skeleton key to provide an all answer you know, factoid here? Yeah? Okay, So but that's about it. Man. Do I have to be at that interview? Like? Can I? Can? I skip it? No? You would have to

be there, damn it. All right, I'll do it. I'll be like I saw you being played by that one actor. That's what I'll say. Oh, yes, it's the movie. I can't remember the actresses name, but I mean either, yeah, I'm all wrapped up into that. See. That's the things you do when you get you know, my age,

Stuff like that excites you. Well, it's the satooth folks, is that the real reason we keep having these long times of radio silence with you all has nothing to do with our lives necessarily, or things being hectic, the world being on fire and acrimonious and opinions. It's the fact that Jay's getting too old and he's forgetful, and we must understand no, no, no, no, he's just old and forgetful. His brain is shriveled and gray now, and it has gray hairs on the inside, and we must,

we must be especially attuned to that. He must understand that man must be understandable because he's he's just too old. So when he remembers that there is a show called the SoRs Chicago, that's literally, that's what it's called. Whatever the fuck is called the Supernatural Crowd and studies, whatever the fuck Chicao ghosts, chic ghosts. When he remembers that this show exists, and he remembers he knows a guy named Oscar, he then he'll let me know.

I'm like, oh man, I'm got to do a show and it doesn't do it next week, I'm like, yeah, like six months ago. Show. I'll let you know on the day you have something you really want to do right right right, like watch the bear. That's that's right. Oh man, that's good. Going on a cruise next month in July, take the family on a cruise. That's exciting. I'm trying to think. I still that's still a bucket list for me. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, going on one. Yeah, maybe breaking into one of maybe

maybe maybe that she has up two bucket list times. We went on one last August, and we're gonna go on one July. And honestly, the one that appeals to me the most is like the Alaska one. One day, one day, I'll do it, not me, for me, maybe not until I'm like eighty, but yeah, when the cold is already catched, is already in your bones, might well say fuck it. That's right. By that time, my heart would have turned the ice anyway, right, bitter and cold. You can't even you can't even take it off your

line, like too much work, exactly. I just point with a gnarled, knuckled finger. Right, that's great. Should we take a break, Yeah, we should probably segue into a break so we can then get started with this uh recap show. Some updates of sorts. Updates on the Long Island serial killer. It's almost like a previously unreal world. Yeah no, no, young listener knows what the hell that just I meant the real world. I just thought of that. I didn't mean on the real world.

No, I know, there's an NTV show call real That's not what I meant. But that's funny, and I'm gonna tell you right now, I ask her before we get into it. Our boy Rex hereman, it's looking more and more like like a piece of shed fucked. Yeah, and he is so fucked. Also about the articles, Yeah, yeah, all right, So let's take a break. Starting now, listeners, welcome back to

the show. Well haven't said this in a while, but the lights are turned down low, the ceremonial candle is lit, that is fam and the drinks are flowing and they are eagle rare. Let's start this update show. So, as I mentioned before we went to break, you know, it's been six months the last time we talked about this case. A lot has happened, but just quickly for people who don't remember because it's been so long. Back in November and December of twenty twenty three, you and I we

published two episodes focused on the long Island serial Killer. Now, in that first episode, we introduced the listeners to twenty of the Long Island serial Killer's victims. That's eighteen women, mostly sex workers, who all shared eerally similar characteristics. And you're talking about physical characteristic folks, that's right, that's right. And then there were two what we referred to as outliers that didn't fit the normal mo of the Long Island serial Killer. That was the Asian male

that we betwink the twink exactly, and that's not to be derogatory. That's what he was. That's what he was. What Humorman was searching for online was Asian twink. So there was that Twink, and then there was the

the kid, the toddler who wound up being Peaches. But connection to everything is that they were buried amongst these others, right, they were all buried by Ocean Parkway and Giggle Beach. Now, some of the victims' bodies or parts of their bodies were buried off, as we just said, Ocean Parkway near Giggle Beach on Long Island, New York, while other bodies and body parts were also found in Manorville, Long Island, and Lost Vegas, Nevada.

And Atlantic City, New Jersey. That was our first episode. Now, in our second Long Island serial Killer episode, we covered all the potential suspects and man and some of them were juicy, like that guy, yes, and we're going to talk about him briefly at the end. Here, you know, was the Long Island serial killer an undetected predator? Were there multiple predators working together? Was it a disgraced cop, the kooki doctor,

a rich businessman, or multiple known serial killers. We just couldn't say for sure. So many very interesting people could fit the bill. But at the end of the day, there was an actual suspect, someone apprehended and jailed who authorities believe could be the actual Long Island serial killer, a sixty year old architect from Massapequa Park on Long Island, New York, of course,

named Heuerman. Now, listeners, if you're unfamiliar with all of this, with the Long Island serial killer case, or with Rex or the victims, or how Rex was caught or what the police had on Rex to catch them or arrest them, you got to go back to our episodes one fifty two and one fifty three, or why his mom would call him Rex? Yeah, name them that way and catch up because this is this is an update episode just to let you guys know, guys know what's been going on since

Heureman's arrest. And also just so you know, check the show notes. I left some photos for you guys that coincide with some people are gonna be talking about today. Okay, Now, the task force that ultimately arrested Rex Hureman in July of twenty twenty three, so just about a year ago.

They've been hard at work ever since building their case. Now there's a lot of updates to cover since we last talked about this, and I can tell you, like I said, it's looking more and more like our guy, Rex, the ogre as he has been called, is the Long Island serial killer. He's a big fucker. He really had a big, ugly son of a bitch. It's still unknown, or more like, it's not being talked about as to whether or NOTx, whether or not Rex worked alone or

had accomplices. All we know right now is that very strong evidence continues to mount against Rex, essentially pointing a big, screaming pink neon finger right at him as being the Long Island serial killer. Right, so, last we re reported Rex was in jail, he was denied bail, and he was

charged with murdering three of the Gilgo four women. To recap He got first degree murder for the deaths of Melissa Bartholemy on or around July tenth, two thousand and nine, Megan Waterman on or around June sixth, twenty ten, and Amber Costello on or around September two, twenty ten, and he was also charged with murder in the second degree for the deaths of Barthelemy, Waterman

and Costello. Now, at that time, Rex had not been charged with killing Marine Brainerd Barnes, the fourth Gilgo victim, but we said in our shows that Rex was the prime suspect in Marine's murder and that he would be charged soon because there was quote substantial evidence of Hureman's involvement in her death, including the m o fitting that of the other three women for which he was

charged. Now, Marine, in case you don't know, Marine Brainard Barnes is believed to be the Long Island serial killer's first victim, and she was only twenty five years old when she disappeared in New York City on July ninth, two thousand and seven. Her body would later be found wrapped in burlap at Gilgo Beach on December eleventh, twenty ten. She had been bound by three belts and one of those belts had that very distinct w H or hm.

Remember who it could be Rex's grandfather, And the tattoo Maureene had on her right arm of her daughter's name, Nicolette had been horribly mutilated by a sharp object in a crude attempt to kind of cane her identic right. This is going to be important that trying to scrub off that tattoo. This is going to become important here in a bit. That was Marine brainer Barnes.

Just to catch you up. Now, when the Suffolk County Crime Lab examined Marine's body, they found a Caucasian female hair in the belt buckle of one

of those belts that bound her, and it wasn't Marine's hair. We now know that after rigorous DNA testing of that hair, when compared to DNA samples taken from bottles found in the trash outside Rex Hureman's Mester Peakle Park home, the DNA profile generated from the female hair found on Marine is seven point nine trillion times more likely to have come from a person genetically identical to Asa Elluup Rex Huerman's wife than anyone else in North America. So the hair found on

Marine Brainer Barnes belonged to Rex's wife Asa. Further, in regards to Amberlin Costello, in the last episodes, we told you about hairs found on her body that also weren't hers. Now, if you remember amber she was the twenty seven year old sex worker from West Babylon, Long Island that disappeared from her home on September second, twenty ten. She's the one that ran that scam with her roommate where they basically robbed the men that turned up to ambers

home. Yeah, Dave Shaller was the guy who was in this scam with her. Now turns out the hairs found on Costello matched with four point six five four times ten to the sixty third power, and I really don't even think there's a name for that big of a number. It matched right to Victoria Hureman, Rex's twenty seven year old daughter. What now? In what

seems like something straight out of a movie. On May twenty, twenty twenty three, undercover agents from the Long Island Serial Killer Task Force witnessed Victoria Hureman, Rex's daughter, throw away a monster Java energy drink can as she was riding a Long Island Railroad train from Penn Station back to the family home in Massapeekle Park. The agents grabbed that can from the trash, and that's how they were able to get Victoria's DNA and link it to the hair found on

Amber Costello. Now, if you remember, this is kind of the same thing with Rex, right, agents got his DNA from a discarded pizza box. I remember that. Yeah, Rex threw away in the garbage can outside

of his Manhattan office. Now, we covered this in the last episode, but two female hairs and a male hair were found on another Gilgo victim, Megan Waterman, and those three hairs once again matched with Rex and his wife, again with just astronomical accuracy, So we could finally say that Rex Huerman now stands accused of murdering all four of the Gilgo four women and there's DNA evidence to prove it. Yep. Yeah, he sounds completely and utterly fucked. Yeah. Oh just wait, in a good way, in a good

way exactly. And this isn't where the updates end. It gets even crazier. So with these hairs turning up on victims that belonged to Asa the wife, Victoria the daughter, it's starting to look like the victims were inside, maybe even killed, in Rex Heureerman's Massapekle Park home, and that's how his wife and daughter's hair was transferred onto the victims, like they were on the floor maybe and that's how it got on her or whatever. Yep, not

necessarily. It means that they were watching or they participated in It's a matter of fact. It's being proven through credit card statements and verified travel history of Asa and Victoria were out of town each and every time one of the gilg for went missing, leaving Rex all alone to do whatever he wants inside the home. Well, that makes a lot more sense because he would want privacy to do it without the fear of being quits to let me wait for them

to leave. Yes, funny enough, unrelated, be little related. My family and my parents and I think someone else going to Mexico tomorrow and the house will be all alone. I'm gonna raid that fridge, you know what I'm saying. I wait for this time, I wait for the summer. I'm gonna raid that fridge. I don't have to buy grocerites this week. It's great, that's essentially what he was doing here. But with human life, they're suspecting right right now, they're as far as killing and bringing killing

these women into the home. There's a few more points I'd like to talk about that solidify this theory that he killed in his home, but I'll get to those shortly. So just put a pin in that right now. This is huge, and this came out very recently. Rex is now being charged with two more murders, really bringing the total to six, and I personally

think unfortunately it's six victims in counting. Now. One of the latest victims attributed to Rex is someone we talked about in our Long Island Serial Killer Victims episode, a woman named jess Kataylor. Do you remember that name. I remember the name, I don't remember those specifics. Okay, Well, Rex is being accused of killing Jessica sometime between July twenty first and twenty sixth,

two thousand and three. Now, if you remember Jess Kataylor, she was the twenty year old sex worker from Washington, d C. Who conducted her

business in Midtown Manhattan, conveniently were Rex office was. Mind you and she disappeared from New York on July twenty first, two thousand and three, and sadly, on July twenty six, two thousand and three, her naked torso was found partially decomposed and resting on top of a surgical drape in the pine barrens of Manerville, New York. She had been decapitated and her arms were

severed below the elbows. She had a tattoo that read Remy's Angel, and it too was horrifically gouged up with a sharp instrument, just like Marine Brainerd Barnes tattoo. It was also discovered this is recently it came out that her nipples displayed irregular disruption. God knows what that means as far as it went,

Yeah, weird way now. Jessica's head, forearms, and hands were missing for eight years until they were found in April twenty eleven Barry, just east of Gilgole Beach, less than a mile from where the Gilg four remains were found. Now it's since been proven that rex Huerman was in fact present in midtown Manhattan on July twenty first, two thousand and three, the very

same date Jessica Taylor disappeared interesting but circumstantial? How about this? After Jessica's body was found in Manorville, police started canvassing the area looking for clues. As a result, they found a witness who had on July twenty fifth, two thousand and three, at approximately ten thirty pm, they observed a dark colored Chevy pickup truck backed into the same area where Jessica's body would be found

just a day later, and the witness's vehicle description masked. The description match the description of Rex's dark green Chevy Avalanche we mentioned in the last episodes. Rex would have been in possession of the avalanche at the time of Jessica's murder and at the time of the witness's account, as Rex purchased that avalanche in

March two thousand and two, so kind of like a year before. Okay, there's more, because this is still kind of circumstantial stuff well, and I witness is not circumstantial, but also like it's hard to connect them.

Could be anyone else track, I guess. A forensic analysis of Rex's digital devices also revealed that on or about July twenty eight, two thousand and three, Rex accessed a Newsday article called cops seek help in iding Manorville body regarding the discover looking up and see where they're at with but they know talking about the discovery of her remains. It was discovered that then Rex then deleted that

search from his browsing history. Then, on or about July twenty nine, two thousand and three, Rex did an Internet search for a new Chevy avalanche, even though his avalanche was just over a year old. It was discovered that Rex tried to do that search from his history too. Keep in mind this internet activity occurred just days after Jessica's torso was discovered, and just days after witnesses observed a vehicle matching the description of Rex is leaving that scene where

the body or torso was found. All still interesting, still circumstantial, but it does re enforce I remember in the second episode, basically the last episode where we talked about the suspects. It doesn't enforce his Rex Huremann's stupidity with technology very much. So, you know, because you talked about the phone and he just doesn't get it. And I love how he thought he was so slick, right and like this reinforces that, Yeah, dumb ass,

dumb ass. Now during examination. Let's see the nail in the coffin linking Rex to Jessica Taylor was once again hair. During examination, a male headhair was found on the surgical drape on which Jessica's or so was found, and DNA analysis excluded ninety nine point ninety six of the American population from being the owner of that hair, but Rex human could not be excluded. In other words, his hair is one point eight three seven times ten to the six

hundred and third power. I love those numbers. That's what I have to do, times more likely to have come from a person genetically identical to Rex Hureman than from an unrelated individual. It's Rex's fucking hair, right. And finally, just like the GILG for women with Jessica Taylor when she went missing, conveniently, Rex's family was verifiably on vacation in Vermont, and Rex did

not join them again. He's got all this time that he needs to execute his fucked up plan on Jessica, abductor bring her back to his house, kill her, dismember her, wrap her up in the surgical drape, transport her to Manerville, and his family family is none the wiser. I wonder what comes first, his victim that he picks or his need like or like to like, how does that vacation work? Does he wait for your wife

too? Or does he suggest it? What you want me? You know, victim, he's like, you want to go to Vermont this weekend? Right? Or like, hey, I want to go to Vermont next week? Great? I can look up people. Now that's a great I wonder what comes first? Good question? Right, we don't know yet, obviously not yet, We don't maybe ever, but but I can just see the honey we just left the week ago. Yeah, it's time I have a warn off of my arrest and Vermont with that speeding ticket on it, you

go, I'll stake so fucked up man, very methodical. Yeah, now, so that's five. Now. The sixth person Rex is now charged with murdering is another sex worker, of course, right, and she's someone we didn't discuss in our previous episodes. What she kind of came out of nowhere for a lot of people, myself included. Her name is Sandra Costilla, a twenty eight year old native of Trinidad and Tobago living in Queens, New

York. Now, Sondra's body was discovered by some hunters in a wooded area of Southampton in Suffolk County, Long Island in November nineteen ninety three, ninety three, which means, if in fact Rex did kill Sandra, which he likely did, as you'll see here in a second, that means he's been brutally murdering women undetected for over three fucking decades. Huh now at the can

of worms, it's so yeah now. When Sondra was found, she was found lying on her back with her arms outstretched over her head and her uncovered legs were spread apart. Her shirt had been pulled up over her torso and head, exposing her breasts, and she had numerous sharp force injuries to her face, torso, breasts, left, thigh, and vaginal area. This

was a nasty kill, yeah now. Originally, investigators suspected the series real killer John Bitchrof in Sandra Cristilla's death, but he was never charged and DNA eventually cleared Bitchrof of Sondra's murder and listeners. If you want to know more about the serial killer John Bitchroff, check out our second Long Island serial Killer

episode where we talked about all the suspects. Now, since Bitchroff was never charged, that means Sondra Caristilla's murder went unsolved for over thirty years until now turns out again, three hairs were found on Sondra's remains. A female hair was found on her right arm, and a female and male hair were found

on like a shirt or like an undershirt that she had been wearing. Turns out, the male hair through DNA testing excludes ninety nine point ninety six in the North American population, including John Bitchrof, but does not exclude Rex Hireman once again, his fucking Heroman. How old would he have been in night three? I'm just curious? Sixty? Yeah, So do the mental math.

I can't do it after this whiskey. Yeah, probably early thirties month good time for serial killers, that's I mean, that's prime age for serial killers. Yeah, yeah, it is. I was just thinking that. That's why I asked them. Now so we know that one of those hairs belonged to Rex Yorman. Now, the female hair found on Sondra Cristia is

interesting. It's not ASA's the wife, and it's not the daughter of Victoria's hair, but she wasn't born yet right, the hair actually belongs to a woman that lived with Rex and his mother in the mess Peokle Park home between nineteen ninety one, No, between nineteen ninety one and September nineteen ninety three, sometime in ninety one. She left in September ninety three. Now right now, police are the only ones that know this woman's identity, and they

are in contact with her, and she voluntarily submitted a DNA sample. Like I said, it's a match to the hair found on Sandra's shirt, providing further support that Rex Hureman mutilated, murdered, and transported the body of Sandra Christia to Southampton. Well, hold on, does anybody question how if the body was found the way it was found in the forest, right? Not mistaken? Yes, it seemed like what it seems to me that she got killed there, not placed there. Placing the body there, I mean,

getting me wrong. Maybe he's trying to humiliate them, and you place them in such a dick, in such a lud way that it could be. But it seems to me that maybe it's a bit of bald. It seems like her end or her her life ended in the forest, not necessarily at his house. It could be right, but give me a second. It's important to note that, for reasons unknown, this unidentified woman moved out of Rex's home in September ninety three, just two months prior to Sandra's murder in

November, and by that time Rex's mother had also been gone. She was also moved out of the house. So, just like with the other five women he's accused of, at the time of Sandra's murder, he was home alone with unfettered time to execute his plan to do whatever the fuck kind of sick shit he wanted to Sandra Caristilla without getting caught by his family. Okay, that's good to know. So it fits them of family being gone, house is empty, investigators, I guess figure it stands to I guess I'm

a little surprised. I mean, I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm surprised that his mo for the most part, was so established from way back then. You know, because we see it like clockwork with his family in New York, or when he's working as an architect in Midtown downtown whatever, that it was still it was still a thing in ninety three, you know. I mean, that's that he like waited for the opportunity and then used that opportunity every time after that to always kill it when the house is empty.

I don't know. It must be an emotional connection with that house. Then, well, it's his childhood home we talked about. We talked about that, Yeah, we did. And this is where he grew up. This is his layer, the belt. The belt belonged to his grandfather. He never changed anything, and there was basically like a hoarder's thing, right, we talked about that. I remember that. I wonder if it's a saying

it. I wonder if it's deeper than that. Maybe, you know, we talked about Also, they're all, you know, sex workers, prostitute, so we talked about the difference between our call and in call and how you can pick your service depending on your needs. Right, and maybe they were all in call or he picked them up and brought them back. That could be a thing too. Yeah, you're right, it could be the call. It seems to be like because his focus on his house when it's

empty seems to be like an in call situation. I wonder if that's like a thing. We're part of it too, how much how much of it is based on his Like, what emotionality he's attributing to the house that leads him to kill there? I wonder what that is. I don't know,

safety comfort, I can't be caught here, I control it. Maybe, yeah, you're right, but I mean this with this murder of Sandra Cristilla, all investigators are saying right now is that he had that time to kill, rape, murder, kills whatever, didn't dismember this one and then transport. There's something there that leads them to believe that he transported them. And maybe we just don't know what that is yet, right, crazy? So six total of six and I believe counting, and we have more developments.

Remember all those searches we talked about being done on Rex's house and his storage units. Yes, for example, he had that storage unit in Amityville, which is very close to the Amityville Last we talked about some of the things police found. But since then, we now know that cops seized over three hundred and fifty electronic devices computers, laptops, hard drives, USB drives, shit like that, and oh man, the treasure trove of evidence being pulled

from some of those devices just unbelievable. Now, Obviously it's going to take fuck, it could take years for them to go through each and every device. Just describe it analyzed. You have to do that. They'll do it. They have to. They're gonna do just they do. But what they've found and are talking about so far is huge. First of all, investigators were able to find a significant collection of Rex's violent bondage and torture pornography dating

back to ninety four. We're talking about things like breast mutilation, the sexualization of decapitated women, vaginal torture, bondage, whipping, sex, substitution. I had to look it up. That's the penetration with an object. So we could again confirm that Rex got off on some sick and twisted, vile shit. Remember the disgusting Google searches we talked about last time, how it involved kitty porn and shit. Investigators also found a hard drive in Rex's basement

that contained a word document titled HK two thousand and two DAH four. We don't know what HK stands for, but they're assuming it spans two years, two thousand and two to two thousand and four. Okay, here's exactly what you were saying. How Rex thinks he's fucking slick with technology, but he's really an asshole. The document was found in unallocated space on the hard drive,

which means Rex tried to delete the argument right. But unless the space that the deleted document once occupied is overwritten with a new file, which it hadn't been, the deleted document can still be recovered by something called computer forensic extraction also known as file carving. And that's exactly what police did. Wow. It's important to note that this document was created locally and it was edited

several times over the years. This is important because this tells us that the HK two thousand and two four document wasn't just something Rex accidentally downloaded from the Internet and then deleted it. No, this is a document Rex created and then edited over time. Yeah, he's the owner. Now everyone's making a huge deal about this document because it seems to be a planning document used by

Rex to methodically blueprint and plan out his kills. Oh okay, yes, did you read about this or ok now this is involved, but fuck is it telling? So I'm going to get through this. This HK planning document begins with a four category section with underlined headings problems, supplies, DS, and TRG now based on Gilgo Homicide Task Force training and experience the cops training and experience, they believe problems section is a guide on issues to avoid apprehension.

Supplies section is a reference to what supplies are needed to carry out the murders, to avoid apprehension and to avoid leave behind any sort of DNA evidence. The DS heading appears to be an acronym for dump site, which is corroborated by the discoveries of the Gilgo four Valerie mac Jusica Taylor, and Sandra Castilla at separate dump sites, that being Manorville Ocean Parkway, Gilgo Beach in Southampton. And finally, police believe that TRG stands for targets Now. Some

of the things REX listed under these headings are as follows. Under problems, REX listed things like DNA tire marks, bloodstains, fingerprints, hair and fiber, and police stops. Right right under the supplies column, REX listed stuff like booti's cover your shoes, lie acid, police scanner, rope, cord, saw, slash cutting tools, hairnets, photo film, foam, drain cleaner, body wash and wipes, and medical gloves. Isn't it chilling how

organized this asshole was. Photo film is very specific, considering that he's so stupid with technology, but he's smart enough to know if he wants to take pictures photo film. But it also correct, and it also tells us there might be a treasure trove. Oh yes, of photo evidence. Right, it's almost got to be in one of his own stas, his own little point collection there, Yeah, trophy and maybe the police have it already.

We just don't know you right. Cataloging and Taste cover Now under the DS or dump site column, Rex typed DS one Mill Road and DS two with a bunch of question marks after it, likely referring to the location where Jess Kataylor and Valerie Max partial. We talked about Valerie mac last episode in last episodes where their remains were found near Mill Road in Manorville at dumb Site one, as well as the second dumb site where more of the women's remains were

found off off Ocean Parkway or dumb Site two. Does that makes sense? Yeah? Okay? And then finally TRG or the target column, Rex typed in Meghan with the question mark, likely referring to Megan Waterman, one of the Gig four and he also typed small as good, which is very significant because all of Rex's victims were petite females. Small as good, right man. So that's the first section. The planning document then breaks down into three

additional headings. Those are pre prep, prep, and post event. This is like a fucking how an architect would think polytical columnized information. You know what I mean? Yes, it so creepy. So the pre prep column, so he's a pre prep column seems to be Rex's idea for planning a murder. He wrote things like vehicle inspection, engage t ie or target one, recon DS one or dump site one, weather report, and recon pick zone for vidcams. This is what he wrote, recon pick zone for vidcams.

He's literally laying out what he needs to do to successfully abduct and murder someone. Inspect his vehicle to make sure it's in working order, no surprises, make sure the weather won't ruin his plans, check the abductionary and the dump sites for video cameras, and then boom, engage the target. Under the prep column, Rex wrote set up stage, holding area, build table,

crossbar, and hard point. It seems like here he's reminded himself that before the murder, he must set up the stage and holding area, likely where he's going to hold his victims torture. We're going to hold torture and murder his victims, and both could again possibly be inside his house. As for the reference to building a table, crossbar, and hard point for the victim, I think all these things have to do with extreme BDSM. I

had to look it up, like, what a hard point was. I've never heard of this, and apparently it's this BDS thing, BDSM thing, and it's something that's mounted overhead from which a dominant partner would support their sub their submissive while performing suspension bondage. Okay, it's supposedly super kinky stuff and in fact, fun fact, some of the most serious publicly reported bondage injuries have occurred when a hard point fails during a suspension session. Even though it's

fairly rare that these failures happen. When it does, it's supposed to be sudden and catastrophic when these things fail. So that's what the investigators believe Rex was doing is reminding himself, Hey, get that shit hung, set up the kill zone, kill site, and build your BDSM things. Tables, crossbars, shit like that. Now. Finally, under the post event column, Rex wrote, destroy file, change tires, burn gloves, dispose of

picks, and have story set. In other words, what he must do after a murder to not get caught basically, destroy all evidence and have an alibi and a story at the ready, just in case. And then there's a section called body prep, which is very telling, where Rex wrote, wash body inside in all cavities, remove trace evidence, fingerprints and hair, remove tattoos, Hello, remove head and hands Hello, and package for transport.

Of course, jess Kataylor Marine Brainer Barnes had their tattoos horribly disfigured. Jessica Taylor's head and arms were removed. Jessica Torso was found on top of a surgical drape, and all four of the Giggle four victims were wrapped in burlap. And I bet Rex used this surgical tape and burlap to package and

transport his victims, just like he's saying in this planning document. The document contained a section called dispose of the following, under which Rex listed things like tools and devices, drop cloths, wipes and towels, props, toys and wood items, tools and devices you know, things like that personal clothes and items, destroy book and computer files again, just what to do not be caught? Like keeping a checklist going Yeah, then there was a things to

remember section. This shit's crazy. Listen to this quote sound travels. Control the amount of air in and out to control the noise. Quote. Get sleep before hunt. Too tired creates problems. Quote hit harder, too many hits to take down. Consider hit to face or neck Next time for takedown. And he noticed how he said next time. Yeah, yeah, that's terrifying. This animal is never gonna stop. Quote use push pins to hang drop cloths from ceiling, not tape. Quote use heavy rope for neck light

rope broke under stress from being tightened. Now, this last one's chilling. It just chills you to the bone. Quote more sleep and noise control equals more playtime. Yeah, fucking playtime. Rex absolutely fucking loves this shit. I think this document is gonna be a major factor and put them away forever. I mean, it's all there's really that way. It's Hellada. Obviously. The growing question is seeing his connection to the nineteen ninety three murder.

How much has he murdered from then till the ones we know of in two thousand and three, ten years of time, we don't know and where you know, don't forget we got stuff in Nevada because he wasn't He had to grow into maybe that this. Maybe he thought at some point thought like mad should probably just figure them cut them up in pieces like it wasn't nineteen ninety three victim? How much longer did he think of that? Did he kill

elsewhere in different states to practice like get the rhythm going? Did he are on the off chance from the nineteen ninety three and then he had like a gap time in ten years like before he really really really felt like he wanted to do it again and it could be a cap tim Now I don't think well, I don't think so, but a lot of those cus they have those cooling off periods, right, But did he cool off maybe the first time like maybe he made him whatever, like where he just do it again?

Like if I can only do that once and then ten years later I do it again? Yeah, fucked up man? And then it comes like a regular such a regular thing occurrence that you make a document or a documented about it, right, and the check list and to say next time, do this Never was gonna stop. No, no, no, now, let's just his vacation. This is like how he his hobby is stressing fucking thing. Yeah the fuck imagine me and that fucked up in the head man.

I cannot because I want to do legos when I'm relaxing. I relaxactly. I don't want to murder it again. You know. Getting back to the home, everyone's dying to know. Was Rex murdering these women in his home when his family was out of town? You know? Was that massive people park home his killing ground, his holding area and stage to quote from the HK document, right set up stage and holding area. We just said in this planning document used push pins to hang drop cloths, not tape.

Remember that. Yeah, As it turns out, investigators did find a section of Rex's home that had tape marks on walls in the ceiling, like this one particular section of his home. I thought it was his basement, like it'd been cording off for some reason, And upon closer inspection they found tiny holes like from pushpins in the ceiling, just like his document said. Yeah, he's clearly cleaning there. Yeah it doesn't it remind you of Dexter,

doesn't This sh it reminds you of Dexter. Well, yeah, I mean, honestly, when we were going through, especially when we talked about the all of the suspects and the many ideas and theories of multiple serial killers being involved, it felt like a Dexter series. Oh did I remember? It felt like a Dexter season five or something. Yeah, it's fucking nuts. And also remember in that planning documents supply section, Rex listed tarps and drop

cloths. The theory is he was hanging these tarps and drop cloths using tape and pushbins. It is, let's just call it his kill room to help contain splashing blood and other bodily fluids and to help stop the spread of DNA. He'd likely then use those same materials to pack the bodies for transport and disposal. I mean, this document is the exact reason why Hroman went undetected for thirty years. He was meticulous as shit, just like an architect would

be, right, and he had zero intentions of stopping. And just like always with a lot of these killer especially the ones that do it a long time and go comfortable in it, they go too comfortable in it. You think of that, that the very first victim that led to the beach gig for running away, the description of him the truck. You get a lot of the things that we know for sure now, I from that first lady that got away or ran away or try to run away. We talked about

it right now. Oh yeah, yeah cool, and then obviously his failure to understand technology. Anyway, Yeah, before we close, you know, I do want to give a quick update on Shannon Gilbert, the one that you're just talking about. She's kind of getting forgotten now that Rex Huerman is in custody and sadly now that Mary Gilbert, Shannon's mother, her outspoken advocate, is dead, murdered, Yes, by her own daughter. I remember, listeners, go back and listen. Remember Shannon Gilbert. She's the unsung

hero right in this whole fucked up story. If police weren't out searching for Shannon, they wouldn't have literally stumbled across the gilg fur which led to more bodies and ultimately to Rex. Right now, one of the biggest questions something everyone is trying to figure out is whether or not Shannon Gilbert and Rex Hueman cross paths, Like, could Rex have murdered Shannon? I mean, the way Rex indulged in sex workers, he and Shannon coming into contact, isn't

that far far stretched of an idea? Right now? If you remember we do? You have that one eye witness the taxi driver who signed a sworn AFFFF David stating that she saw a terrified Shannon Gilbert and Huerman at the Sayville Motor Lodge and the south shore of Long Island back in two thousand and nine. Do you remember that? Yes? Now? More recently, John Ray, the attorney representing Shannon Gilbert's state, talked about Shannon's diary, which police

have. We weren't privy to this information back when we recorded our first two episodes. This is new now. Overall, unfortunately, there isn't much in the diary, no smoking gun linking Shannon to Rex or Shannon to any of the suspects we talked about in the previous episodes. But there is one thing

John Ray mentioned that's pretty interesting, and it's only two words. On one of the diary pages, Shannon had written the name Chris and then crossed it out, and next to Chris was the word massive Pequa Okay, of all the towns in Long Island, she wrote massive Pequa, where Rex lived and possibly killed. Rex's step son is named Christopher or Chris. And we know that Rex loved to use ordinary names as aliases when he communicated with sex workers

and created his fictitious emails names like John Springfield and Thomas Hawk. Now this is all circumstantial, but man, is this the proof? And Shannon's own handwriting that she and Rex knew each other? Could he been there that night? Was that who she was running from? It's definitely not a smoking gun, of course, but interesting. It's definitely watch closer now, huh. Yeah. And John Ray is because Mary Gilbert, the mother, Shannon's mother, was, like I said, this advocate, outspoken, brash, not

afraid to piss people off. But now that she's gone and there's someone in custody, Shannon's name is just kind of getting forgotten. Yeah. So John Ray is really trying to put the pressure to reopen her case, re examine her case, take a look at the facts and everything again. And now we have this Chris mass of Pequa. Maybe they can find her DNA in his place or something. Yeah. And then just today, just today,

this morning, I found three interviews that were done with Joe Brewer. Joe Brewer is the man who Shannon went to visit the night she disappeared, Yes, for her sex work. Right, and everyone's like Joe Brower is involved, or the driver Michael Pack Right, Michael pack brought her to Joe Brewer's. How she ran out of Joe Burrow's house. So there's three and I'll

leave the links to these interviews. They're about twenty minutes each. And you know, just to hear Joe Brewer's voice, to hear him tell his side of the story about what happened that night, incredibly interesting, really, of course he pleads, is in a sense and of In fact, Joe Brewer called the police himself once he found out Shannon was missing. Joe Burer took a lot of detective tests. Joe Brewer has answered all the police's questions.

But you know who he says didn't do all those things. The doctor Peter Hackett, the Kookie doctor. Very weird, very weird. So just to and again I'll leave the links to these interviews. There's a couple of points.

Joe Brewer said that the morning he Discoveryone discovered Shannon was gone, het he met up, he just happened to bump into Peter Hackett at the front gate of the Oak Beach Association where all these people lived, and he said, Peter Hackett, the doctor, was the only one who wanted meticulous information about timeline. No one else mentioned it, no one else brought it up. He was the one that wanted a meticulous timeline of everything Joe Brewer did

that day with Shannon, no one else. And then when Joe Burroer brought it up to the police that he gave Peter Hackett this information, Doctor Hackett told the police that never happened, and Joe Vers said, of course it fucking happened, but he denied it. But the doctor denied it. But were also said that the doctor was in charge of the video surveillance system at that front gate. The only night that video was missing was a night Shannon

disappeared. What and no one has been No one answered for it, And so he knew he did another lie too to somebody else. Oh yeah, Shannon's mother, That's what it was. Okay, I run a wayward home for girls. That's why I said that, you know, Paul Peter Hackett had said to one of his Oak Beach neighbors that Shannon was at my house and I gave her a sedative to calm her down, and then he denied

that too. These are all from Joe Brewer's mouth and so without coming out and saying it, in these interviews, he's saying people need to really look at Hackett, but he's not accusing him. He's accusing him without accusing him. Yeah, the real damning part that makes me want to really look into it. Otherwise, it felt more more a can to what the police Sad originally, like, he's just a fucking attention getter. He's just a cook,

he's just a kook. He just wants to talk to the police about Shad, and he's an asshole and just inject himself right right, He's he's nothing like they we're just trying to ignore him. There's more, there's more there, Yeah, because you know the kind of thing for sure, Brewer said, He's like, you know, I'm not saying he killed him, but he helped cover it up. And why why is he helping cover it up? For why? You know, Brewer he wants to find out.

I'm on Brewers fan, I'm on Brewer's side. After listening to those those interviews. Listeners check it out. I'll make sure and put those links in the show notes. And that's really all I have. I mean, it's a lot for updates on the Long Island serial killer case. Personally, I think it's literally impossible for to turn out that Rex is not the killer. There's just so much damning evidence pointing straight to him, and it keeps mounting.

And unfortunately, I think victim list is going to continue to grow. But we're gonna have to wait and see what other evidence comes out, like from all those I mean, his only way out and not buy out, I mean out in the street. I'm saying, out of let's say, an execution, or or into some sort of some kind of halfway decent redemption arc. He might have to resort to telling the police about everyone that he's

killed, or they're going to find the evidence. I mean, there's no I can't imagine that in all that time there would be evidence on every one of his victims. You know what I'm saying, We just don't know that. I think it's much better if he were to confess. I don't know

this guy. He's I don't think so I don't even do it right, And most of them actually never really do, not all of them anyway, some of them do hardcore, but like they go all out like you got me, here's a list, but like it happens very rarely, right, But that would be the idea, that's the only way to And I'm not even sam we'll really even know for sure then, but I feel like that's the one way we might actually know how many and who and where they are.

Yeah, or sometimes they just say, okay, we got six, that's enough life, You're done, case closed. Yeah, And unfortunately the other people don't aren't discovered or terrible though, because you people want to know, right of course, especially of course, but it's not unheard of to

say, okay, you've charged with sick. Of course, not that's enough to put you to life the rest unfortunately, right, But also, like what if you come across one of the other victims that if you looked into and you start blaming somebody else for that way got to know no, no, no, I'm saying it, but you have to and you don't know did it, but you start blaming against somebody else, and you know, like what if you don't mean that's weird, that's why we got due diligence.

Oh yeah, there's so much to go through here, and you know, as information, chunks of information come out, we'll keep you updated because yeah, for sure people are interested in this case. So yeah, that's what I got. Oscar awesome, that's all I got to Are you gonna take us home? I'm about to Are you ready? I'm ready to go? All right, let's do it. He went out for Talia's birthday to the sugar shack in a sugar factory. Oh, she still loves that,

rose hasn't yet. Goddamn is expensive. It's so expensive. And a chocolate martini thing delicious, but wait, too overpriced. That's what they need to stick to, is the drink. Yes that, I'll give it a plus for That's the only one thing I left. Food sucked, food ben remember Benigans and shit like that. I remember Apple Beat, That's what it is. But you're paying like shape, Paul, Apples Beast is better because it's not price So right, alright, some movies, movies, movies, movies.

Yeah, I've seen everything. Uh I wanted to Uh that I can't win subscription? Do you mean your your movie past? Is that what you mean? They don't have. They don't not for a while. Really, there's a great documentary. I think Paul movie Pass. Well, oh the down Paul Movie Past. It's on Max No shit, if you're curious to what happened. Yeah, yeah, well it sounded like it was a fucking great deal. Okay, what I was there day one? Were you day one on that tuo with me? No? No, okay no, because

I was over that ship. Now I'm a dang s one. So I was trying to think, like, first, let's talk about movies we've seen in the theaters. We saw the new Ghostbusters in the theater, and we saw Late Night with the Devil. I love that movie, dude, it was so good. I love that the Yeah we did, yeah, I had. I had to see that. Yes, yes it was you who saw my account, so no somebody else. We may watched it again, but we saw it originally in the movies. Cool. I love that movie.

One Wasp. It was so good, the whole Bohemian grove tie in, Dude, I love I didn't text you. I thought I did. Maybe I just thought I did, but I was. I thought of you immediately. I'm like, dude, yeah, yeah, So that was really cool. The guy des Chamaine. Yeah, the guy who's always in like little movies, but he's the main star on the fe was so good at playing that late night late night house, so good. And the uh so the the the guy who came in as the debunker, right, are you

good? Yes, he's a guy from the Matrix sequels. Really, he's the guy the agent Smith takes over in the real world. Oh that's that actor. Okay, right, I see it. It took me the whole movie to where's this guy? And then I looked him up after Wow, But he was based off of a real guy. Amazing. There wasn't an Amazing Randy who wrote that check in real life. So yes, I thought

of Amazing Randy too, because I knew about him as well. I thought that it was supposed to be It looked so from yes the premise of the check, Yes, proved to be paranormal and right. I also thought of Ghostbusus's a beetlejuice. They had that little thing about that, like, did they off hand? No, it's not like a real plot or anything.

One of the characters off hand says, you know, the National Inquire is offering a hundred thousand dollars for a proof of the afterlife something like that, and it reminded me of the same thing, like, oh, because that's Brandy's and that was in the movie I see, so fire. So this is called Fire and Blood three hundred years before a Game of Thrones, Yes, the Targerian dynasty, the House of the Dragon. Yes. So the book is written as if this is what's interesting. This is why it makes

them so different from the other books. It's cool, but also not cool. I'll tell you why. Fire and Blood is written as if it was written as a history book made by a guy that's in the in the in the world. So it's written like a history book, a textbook for future generations to read on what happened to the target. Cool, but because it's a history book, it's very dry. There's no characterization, there's no POV you know what I'm saying. It's very much like like a history. I

mean, there's just facts. It's what they know, what they surmise based on accounts and witnesses. It was also written it pretends to be a book that was written like a generation after the events of the book. So even though book itself spans three hundred years from the first Dynasty from Mega I forgot that Egon the first guy, all the way up until where they stopped,

you know, like one hundred years before Danny and Game of Thrones. Basically, they cover as much of that as possible, but they're also so far away from it. They don't know anybody that's alive from that time, you know, so like a lot of accounts, you don't know. The show is tweeting it like a drama, like they're filling in the gaps that the text that the history book doesn't have. Okay, basically, and when is the show supposed to be? Is it a thousand years before like Denius and

all them? No, a couple hundred, couple hundred the Dynasty of the Targarians has only it's less than a thousand. It's like less than five hundred. Okay, okay. Because Katie's getting into the House of Dragons. Oh really, she did not like Game of Thrones really, so now she's getting into house really on part two, just like what's out and she was like, Okay, what's this? What's that? What's this? At the end, I'm like, you like it, don't you. She gave me the

look, so I was trying to tell her this takes place. It's either a thousand or a few hundred. I couldn't remember. But now in this list, okay, fire and blood. Yeah, then we have a Night of the Said, a Night of the Seven Kingdoms, a Song of Ice and Fire, which I've never heard of. I don't know that one either. It's George R. R. Martin and Gary Gianni. He also wrote that the Tale of Mushroom and something, and there's another one. Yeah. He's done a lot of stuff about the world, but not the Song of

He has not continued the books. So and what are we waiting for in the books? What's the name of it? The Winds of Winter that's not out yet. No, that's what we're waiting for. That's what we've all been waiting for. And then the Dream of Spraying is the last one supposed to be seven. So he's got two books. Yeah, he's gonna die, dude, Right, Okay, Well that's good to know. So now I got to get a new book. Good because I'm always done with this

new Stephen King one I'm reading. And if you are like if you remember, if we have like great memory on the original series in season three of Game of Thrones, maybe four, maybe even earlier, I don't remember. Geoffrey legit spoils what happens in the House of the Dragon because it's history to them he's talking to, not Sansa, the other girl he marries, one from High Garden, High Garden, High Garden or the High Garden girl.

High towers, no high towers houses Dragon, but it's not the lineage that girl was no high No, okay, a high tower and high high Towers are from old Town where sam Tardi was from. High Garden is entirely different

area. Okay, pretty sure. But so he ruled and he was like he was like in the crib where all the bones of the old dragons were, including some of the dragons that you're there alive in that House of the Dragon, right, and he's talking about the history, and he talks about NAR's rain or lack thereof, and what actually like how she dies really he talks to about it like it was like I'm not gonna tell you it's a real and it was insane ending for her, but like he just blurts it

out and like if you remember that scene, you're gonna get spoiled for House unless they change it somehow. No, I don't think so. I don't know how they could, right, No, that's actually I don't think they're gonna fuck with it. It's also in Fire and Blood that scene. So I'm I'm a big fan of Verniers. I think she's awesome your team Black, but I also like Alison Alice high Tower at all his daughter Alison. Sorry, how long has it been since season one and two? Well?

How many how many years were between between seasons one and two of this new seat show? Not at all? Basically like it's the next day or a week? No, no, no, I'm sorry, but no between season one and season two. Yeah. So at the end of season one, Luke Branera's kid dies is the mid air cool dragon scene and the next episode one of the new season. I'm sorry. How much time for us did it take to Oh it was a couple of years. A couple of years.

Yeah, point is no more than no more than two. You should always go uh and there's always great stuff people make fans of itself, like, oh, here's like a wee cap that's better than HBO will show you. Oh really, you could always watch a bit of cookbad of someone cut up for you to say a recap in cases has been too long for you. But they do that for every show. You can nick up. You can always do that real quick before you start a new episode of the season.

Get you fresh. I should because there's a lot trying because I did too. I just kind of played it by year, but I also read the books Nobody but yeah, and then trying to explain it to Katie it was it was hard. So, yeah, a lot of characters, and that's what I was talking There's so many characters and relationships and locations and well not that many locations in this one. It's is mainly what they're talking about a lot of places. I mean, they are talking about a lot of

places. Run they're talking about them, but other than sometimes you may be visiting them. Is mainly kings Landing and Dragonstone. Dragonstone. Yeah, that's where the two warring factors are at. Milicent. What's her name is? Allison is in King's Landing right with the King. The nearest is in dragons Dragonstone, which is like the man jump. It's like right there across the pond. Not even because the King Agon said she's sitting across the lake or

whatever at me or something. They're all super close together, all those places. The stepstones too, I think not type far. So we haven't yet. We haven't yet seen like the scept of Baylor, and we haven't seen we haven't seen the Seven Sister. I don't think there is a scept of Baylor yet yet. Oh, like built, I'm not sure, could be wrong. Wasn't Baylor one of the Kings? Yeah, but I think they didn't his honor after the events of this stuff. Yeah, so right,

that's what I mean. So Baylor hasn't come yet, either hasn't come yet or they haven't done it constructed the thing yet. I'm pretty sure that makes sense. Yeah, And in trying to relate to Chop that fucking gets that off. And then they showed it. Actually it's works in the book. No, no, it's not spoiler, because I can it happened already. I can tell you how it So like in the book, she she has two male hers and one girl, not just one girl, one boy and

Blood and Cheese, the two killers. When they go into the room they see all the babes, they don't know what to decide. They make her choose, and then they killed the other one in front of her. It's like like that. It's like a sophie's choice, like a real sophie's choice. Isn't that what happened here? They're like, which, no, but like they fuck with her, like they don't do that here and this one. Yeah, they say which one is the boy? They're like, which

are the two boys you want us to kill? That's a big difference. So like, yeah, they were rowdy back then in this fictional world. Yeah, the guy with the scar, he's Niers's brother, the one who killed Luke. Oh amen, amen, Not Damon. Damon's this. Damon is the doctor hu guy. Oh is he? Yeah? I didn't know. Oh you know something Smith, he's the one banging his niece. Yeah, no, it's very dirty. Yes, everyone banged each other. So what was his name? Aiment Aimen? What did he do to Luke?

Again? He just killed him on the dragon, right, he made it dragon. It wasn't his choice. He's playing it off as if he lost his temper. No, the dragon after went after the dragon because it pissed it off, because they're animals and they were just bickering in mid air. And and I forgot his name, MegaR I think has his name, the dragon, just doesn't. He can't control the dragon. He may he may be the one that rides the biggest dragon in all the land, doesn't mean

he can control it all. It's the oldest dragon they have. So then why is he playing off that he because he's not going to be embarrass and show like he has no power and shod then he can't control It's crazy. Yeah, So that's a great one in the because in the history Book and the Fire and Blood, they don't know what really happened. They played off as if it was a vindictive act that Aimon did because they don't know. But obviously we see the show like that's cool. That's a better twist on

because nobody would be up there to know for real what happened anything. It was cool. I just saw on Instagram today it was a breakdown of all the dragons that are alive right now. Oh yeah, in the series I Love Axis, Did you see this image? No, obviously in the image, oh Saxis is tiny compared to Begar. It could have been Vegar. It has to be Vega. That's the only big one because he was I

mean, he dwarfed. He's like he's basically like a seven forty nine, uh seven four to seven compared to the Sesna that is the rest of the writers. Wow, that's basically the way you look at it. It's great, it's good. I mean, I love that Damon is the only Dragon writer in all the Dragon writers that in existence in west Rows that's had combat experience and has both gonna experience it with himself and with the Dragon. He's

the only one that's followed wars On. The Dragon knows how to fight in general and amen, and nobody else knows has that kind of like experience. So keep that in mind too. Okay, Well yeah, because now Damon he he scootered off again. Well yeah, a lot of people think it's going to Heron Hall, but I don't know. And what's going on in Haron Hall. Well, Heron Hall he wants to master the army there so you can start taking over lordy for four or against well for were new they

just had that big fight, right, I'm gonna tell you. But okay, okay, And then there was one more thing I wanted to bring up. Oh God, plus it. Yeah, you're trying to make those correlations between characters, you see, now, characters you see how the stars act just like the Starks when they go up there. In the first book, there was like, so starky, is the wall half its size at this point? No, no, it never diminished full size. They're not still a building. No no, no, it's a lot smaller than now.

The wall is truly old thing that's been there for for thousands of years, that was there and made basically with the very first handles the first men that came in with it, and then they met the children of the forest back when the Night King and those whites, the White Walkers were out and about, and they built that wall for them a long time ago, so long that it's been way forgotten. What's for Wow? Yeah, okay, so

that's they got to do a movie or a book. Well, they have this thing where they want to they want to do, obviously a good version of it, a continuation of Game of Thrones, as if like through John Snow's point of view. So at the end of season eight he goes up to the wall, right, he's the general Lord Commander up there and among

yeah, and then Brian is leading kings landing and all that stuff. But they want to do a continuation from that point on because and this makes more sense because we don't know how George is gonna end the books that the Night King, you know, isn't going to be it's like a skirmish. Like the whole point is that the Night King and his army coming through, and

what we saw in season eight that was just the beginning. Like the whole point is that there's many more and they're massing and this is just the first skirmish. WHOA, So, like, where else can they go from here? Why would John snow have to deal with if they do that? I mean the idea that our record destroyed only one night after all that build ups, it seems kind of dumb and anti climactic when you skink up all the build up and all this, all the army that are massing over the point.

Yeah. So and the people are saying like, well, maybe that's just the beginning and there's a lot more going on and we're just never going to get to see that. So until they make more. So they had snow when they cancel that, Yeah, well they were gonna have no lot and they cancel that, I don't know if they're gonna do something else where. Maybe he's in it because he still wants to do stuff. As far as I know that actor, he's fine, he's doing fine. He married

Egret, he's fine. Oh that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. I'm all in. I'll get the new book for yeah, obviously. The only one I know that as like a hardcore fan of the shows is what You're the only fan that's that hard. The only find I have as a that's hardcore as that's oh yeah this, I think this series a lot of people go and watch it. It's not gonna be Yeah, that's why yourself. Really, I don't understand. That's what I wanted

to bring up real quick. I don't understand where the Black family comes in. They're Targarians as well. No, no, I mean no, they're not Targarians. What's their last name? Black? Strong? Sorry? Strong? Is it strong? So Team Black and Team Green has a you know that's the two different things, right Black is? Team Black is Rhinera and her side and her whole. Team Green is Alison and and I haven't heard it really, Yeah, they're everywhere online. Everyone's almost everyone's team blackeh.

No one likes fucking Otto, No one likes dude, I like him. I don't like he's a piece of shit. I mean he's great to watch. I think he's You don't think he's a slimy I think he's a shittier work. No, no, no, he is so petual. He caused all of that. He's so selfish, and that family don't even know how to give each other a hug, much less they're so bad we near. On the other hand, look at the way she raised her children, comparison

so much better as a queen. Anyway, Well, it seemed like the advice he was given to Agon was sounded well, yeah, I mean he was heartless in the way he was like, yellow, let's use the little boy's body to generate you know, he't against it. Sound it's fucked up, it's cruel. Yeah no, But he's a piece of share for causing

all events that got there. He the way he manipulated Alison the first season to lead to like and the whole time he's thinking that Alison like joined in on his plan, when in reality she was just being an innocent like she saw Amon's last the last King's last words in his delirium and his death, thinking that he was talking about his son when he was talking about the prophecy, and she just got it confused and became it was anstant bystander, and

he's auto thinking like, way to go daughter, way to betray, like I was doing, like, oh, I hate that guy so much. Wait, the king who died was Amen Agon. It wasn't serious? Serious? Did I get that wrong? I think it was serious. I thought Agon is the current king, the boy, but he was named after his father. I thought that was King Agon was serious? Wrong, I could be wrong. Let's know, you were probably right. No, no,

no, first season, it was a while back. I think I'm only saying because I literally looked it up today for Katie, and then you're right, try and trigger. No, you're probably right. My band got it wrong. It's so many names that sound the same. I was like, Ellison was married to you want to say Milicent was married to the king. What was the king's name? Again? And I started to look it up because I want then I wanted to know who Agon's father was again, And

it was serious. She was loyal to Alston, was a true blue from the get go. She just wanted to do right by the realm, right by the husband, right by the King, and she did everything and then still got manipulated, betrayed mainly by Auto. He's such a manipulator. You got five from being handed out twice three times. I think, well, he's such an ash. And also, don't forget the other guy, uh

their master whispers whatever, the foot fetish guy. Yes, yes, I was gonna bring him up too, Like that's Varius, that that's sure laws, that's Lauris, right, but in Game of Throne, oh yeah, it would be various, right, but but these are worst versions of those, Like you think of Otto High Tower being the worst version of little Finger

because little Finger Les was smarter. He's like, well maybe not till the end, because he fucked up at the end, but he was smarter, way smarter, and way more conniving, way more like connections, Auto High Towers socks compared to him man and also serious is much better in general as a person than Lauris Lorus. Well, what I really hate is the King's guy who sent Arik out to his death. What a piece of ship. That was a good that was a good scene. It was a good scene.

Yeah, but like you just highlights this piece of shipness and maybe and that becomes the hand, Where were you on the night He just wanted he just wanted then to feel guilty that were you? Of course he was banging Allison Ellison. But no, the black people, Oh you meant that, Okay, I see you meant that, like the master ships and yeah, what's their last name? Again? They're not Targarians, are they know? They're like they're like one of the original Valerian families. They're part of Valarian

but Targerian is the ruling one in Westros. But and old Valeria in the old days, it was then Targerians were like one of the lower class, one of the lower families. But they went over to Westros, one of the first to come over to Westros. So when they took over Westros with their never seen, never before seen dragons, the obviously became the nure Ones. But in Valeria there were nothing and then Valeri got destroyed, so they become the only ones left. Damn. But now because usually okay, like

the signal is oh the white hair Targarian, Yes, that's what. But these blacks they're not Targarians or are they Targarian? I think some of them are, but I don't know. There's another name. I don't remember the name, and it's a name we've heard before. Yes, yeah, okay, okay, because the one girl, like when Damon was storming through the castle, the black girl walked by and said father, and he just kept

walking. Yeah, so he fathered one of those. Well, he followed Ranera's original king or the one she was mad, the gay guy who they are right, I forgot about that and the history box. They claimed that he died, of course because they don't know the truth. And then the show was like, no, no, we let him go. He goes off to assays somewhere and having fun with his boyfriend. Okay, I forgot

about that. That was his son. He was sober, he was so mortified when he lost his HM. That's right, that's because Damon's manipulation. He said, well, then me wrong. Vanera said yes to him to Venera is as much fault. But Damon's like such a conniving asshole too,

you know you wanted to get his grubby hands. Well, he's he feels wrong the whole time, from day one, from thinking, from having Ranera be considered the next heir when he should be there, right, such an asshole, and then the Servius's kids are Veneres, Eggon and Scarface, and I think there is another one. I think there's two more, just two girls. I think I forget. We've seen them, you know, we've seen them all, we haven't. We haven't seen Darren yet. He is

an old town I think we haven't met him yet. He has his own dragon. We haven't met him at all. Okay, I think you're gonna meet him because they mentioned them last episode, So you think you're going to meet him in this season. I just don't know one cool okay, Yeah, so I expect some cool stuff him. Do you remember the last season the he was the Salt King? Remember the Salt King? He he was like half Mond, literally like half monster. I think about the crab Feedter,

Yes, okay, didn't is need the salt King? Isn't that what they called them? Is that what they called him? Maybe you're right. I thought I called him the crab Feeder. That's someone with Damon just solo sim in that cave. He kills that dude was cool, Like we need to bring more stuff like that back too. Yeah, so that was good Ghostbusters. Yeah it was I would try to be fun, which I enjoyed. Fanfare was great, right, I tried to have fun. Uh,

but honestly, I forgot most of the movie. Yeah, I'm over it. I cannot stand the girl who's the main character. Oh, antly, I just she just I just did. I mean, I didn't. She sucks. I didn't love or hate her. So yeah, she's like, yeah don't. I just can't stand her. She's just not a good lead lead. Yeah, there's just so many anyway, So we went to the movies for that one. What was some of the fan fair, Like, god, memory is terrible in these days. Did you see a spider movie?

No, you heard of it? Oh, yeah, it's on Uh is that the one that's on shutter right now? Might be both on there? So there's so it was great. So I saw a sting came on theaters like two months ago. Okay, it's about little girl who finds a spider a black widow and it grows takes over the apartment, right, and it grows huge, like it's like an alien spider or something. I didn't love that movie because I feel like it could have gone way further and it

didn't. It felt like it was trying to be PG. I'm like bitch with the horror. God damn it. And I saw a French movie also on shutter check it out. It's called Infested. Yeah, that's it's one of the main things on shutter right now. Yes, have you seen that, dude? No, it's so good. It makes you feel like they're all over you. She's like, I'm not watching dude, watch it. I thought of YouTube because you're so scared of him, but like, oh, come on, watch it, dude. We were we had nothing on.

We were totally bored. One day there's a scene that's like a hallway full of all of them rolling everywhere and they have to go through it. And it was like, yes, like I want this mon No, and Katie she's pretty much down for it, and she's like, I'm not watching it. Yeah, no, No, we haven't seen it. But how was the other one? What was the other one? The other thing is the American one? Like I said, I just watched the one further.

It wasn't. It didn't for me. It didn't do it. And I mean it has some cool scenes, but it just it just it just tried too hard. No, No, maybe one time Infested that though No, it looks looks Infested is fucking good. And those are just regular spiders. We're not regular. They get up to this much better. What else