Episode 153: Long Island Serial Killer - The Suspects

Welcome to the one hundred and fifty third episode of the Supernatural Accurrent Studies podcast So Serial Killery Paranormal Jason Knight, host of the show and with me as always is. The name is Spector Oscar Spector, producer extraordinaire and podcast co host. Okay, you good, I think so. I said, guys, this guy is Jonesing. I got this new whiskey sitting right next to me, and and I just said, like, a we should try it

on air in our opening. And so he's it's the class has been sitting there and he's constantly I reached for that glass ten times in the last ten minutes. Yes, I just keeps Anyway, we were going to try this, Yeah, yeah, I'm really excited about it. But this is a take two for us. Oh yeah, so I think you were going to mention it. Okay, Yeah, Long Island Serial Killer Part two The Suspects. We already recorded this episode last week. Yeah. I was not happy

with it. No, you weren't. I did not like the way the way I came out on it, and I was very upset. I remember you said that. I didn't think it was that bad as you said, But you are I mean, you are your own worst critic, and I didn't argue with you either. I'm yea, let's do it again, No big deal. Yeah, I appreciate that. I felt bad. You came all the way up and I wasn't on my Well, the trade off is I get to drink your booze and whiskey, So like, I'm fine with

it. Oh oh yeah, fair enough. At least you could do long Drive. I don't know. I came into that episode kind of went to chip on my shoulder. I was a little angry at life that day and it kind of carried over into that recording, and I just I like to be one take Jay, you call it one time? Was at one take Jay? There were edits and fuck ups and oh yeah there was one. There was one one five cup that we had to edit around if I were to do that show. Yes, one's enough. So here we are again,

right, I'm really excited to finally get into this episode. I know you took more notes, yes, to ask more questions or theorize even deeper on this episode. I took I was even taking you shouldn't do those listeners, But I am I'm not a professional, but I feel like I am. Some of these notes I took while I was driving my way here. I'm just gonna scroll for you, okay from here from the very top. Yeah, one, two, four, holy ship up to five good swipes

up to there, so six swipes Yeah on your screen. Holy shit. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Mm hmm. Well, I do have the benefit of that. I do have the hindsight of we did shoot that up when I shoot, but we did, you know, we core that episode is to take two, so I we know the information going in. So it helps that I have all these you know, new things. So that as cold as usual, right right, right cool. I'm usually the you know, the odd man out and figuring it out for the first

time, like our listeners along with them. So like, and I'm in the moment thinking of questions, but oftentimes you think of better ones after, you know, always this is the after. This is why I thought of more, because like I have more time to think about it. Process ruminance good, then this should be a really good ruminate. That's not a word rumenus. I think I put remnante ruminus. Yeah, I like it though. Yeah, I understood what you said because I just glossed English is whatever

English is whatever we're contextual language. It doesn't even really work. No, yeah, that much incredibly confusing language. What else? So Thanksgiving came and gone? That's right, Happy Thanksgiving? Motherfuckers related Thanksgiving? Yes, and yeah, yeah, there we go. That's it. I try to I mean, I got nothing. It'sn't either, I mean to me, Thanksgiving is the in between holiday between two better holidays. See, I really enjoyed

things. I know you came up Thanksgiving. Oh that's right, the first time ever, first time, Like I've seen you in a lot of different times, like I've seen you. I think I've seen you for New Year's Yeah, so yeah, I never seen you for Christmas. But that's a very family thing. I haven't broken that barrier yet. I've seen you for four the jivet many times, Halloween, Halloween a bunch of times, many times for that too. It's just our first Thanksgiving. It was and it

was very nice. It was very nice. We're still drinking. The wedding is in June. The wedding registry is at Creighton Barrel right in linens and things we mainly want the things I don't I think either of those stores are still open? Are they? They can't be. I don't know's I've never been to any really dated ourselves on that one. Well we are dating. Oh my god, this is gonna be I have almost forty pages. Yes, this is gonna go off the reils quick, yes, uh so?

Yeah. Thanksgiving was great. Glad you came up here. We are going to release this episode sometime in December before Christmas. It will not be after Christmas, I promise that. Do you uh real quick on Thanksgiving? Real quick? What are your thoughts? It seems to be like your thoughts on Thanksgiving is to always have a turkey. Yes, you're very pro turkey? Yes? Why are you pro turkey? Oh it's simply tradition, right, Okay, that's so I didn't I figured it as much, you know,

because you didn't watch football either. But I know you're not sports guy. I'm not really a sports guy, thank god. Honestly, thank honestly. I wouldn't come here if you expected me to watch sports with If the Bears are playing, if the Packers are playing, if New Orleans is playing, I'll watch for sure, But I cut the cord. So it's very hard to find God. NFL live NFL games pro for me so often. We saw Charlie Browns Thanksgiving though, Oh we did. Did you say and watch

that with us? Yes? Yeah? And Jason Jason versus Michael Myers thing don't walk, Oh yeah, don't oh Michael the Jason Michael Miles were white right right? What the fan? The fan I'm trying to think of what was called? Doesn't matter. People can look. I would like them to look at U because it's YouTube, just Jason versus Michael Myers. Yeah, YouTube, Okay, there you go, YouTube Jason Versus Michael Myers. I don't know the name of it. It's a fan made film. It is

fantastic. It's fun. Yeah, it's a lot of fun, pretty much Hollywood quality. And there's also one called, uh, never Hike in the Woods alone, Never hike again. Never never hike in the Woods alone, I think, which is another fan made, two part fan made Friday thirteen. Fantastic, just fantastic. Anyway, I was asking about the Turkey is because I was listening to uh, you know, I just do a podcasts and or talk to people about Thanksgiving or brown Thanksgiving, so that's a topic

and I never liked turkey it's a weird bird. I usual don't like it when it's made. I did like yours. I did like yours. You're one of the very few that that made it well. But ultimately, and I heard there's in another podcast. I'm not going to name them or whatever because that's free advertising for them. But then they're good. They're doing good by the way they were like, we never do turkey that we do ham or we do something else, and like the reason is because turkey is just

so hard to get right. It could go wrong so oftenoy other meats are much easier to deal with, and you have way more options to taste, and that like if you could get the same things the same result with less effort, And I'm like, I like that, and so that's why I want to ask you. Yeah, it's purely tradition. I enjoy cooking it.

I like working out. I think I worked on that one for like six and a half hours, and it's constant monitoring and monitoring and basting and making sure the heat is right and that skin is getting crispy and you're getting the drippings underneath. I did like the skin. It was good skin. Yeah, Like people in my family fight over the skin of turkeys. I saw that. I saw a little bit of that. I had to take

it without anyone, Like. I didn't ask. I just took it because I'm like, I'm not gonna went I gotta give anyone that says turn first kidding me. Yeah, well, I'm glad you liked it. And we're still drinking your orchata. Yeah, I saw that. You know, it doesn't have a high shelf LI fight, Oh, drink it fast. Well, thanks, it's about as long as the milk is so like, so we got to finish it quick. Yeah, okay, really good. By the way, I'm glad you like it. You're a chatta is very good,

thank you. But speaking of drinks, right, let's get into so what do we have here? We have all right, So I couldn't find this anywhere in any of my store, so I ordered online. I paid probably too much for this. But it's Bargetown Bourbon m h. And it's their collaborative series. Now. I found out recently about two years ago, two or three years ago, the Pritzker family bought Bargetown Bourbon. Pritzker is famously for those sprinkler systems. No sprinkler he's the governor of Illinois. Sprakler

Pritzel. So his family, Oh no, he does pretzels. Is that a thing? I'm just playing with the name of us. Yeah, so your governor's family, Oh, bought this distillery in Kentucky, Bardstown, which is known for putting out good whiskey's as it is, And this is a collaborative series where they age the Bardstown whiskey in Goose Island stout barrels. They're gonna say Republican votes, no, no, uh, they actually aged the

whiskey in Goose Island stout barrels. So it's that collaborative series. And Prince Gerson's he's a governor of Illinois. Makes sense they're using Goose Island. So I really wanted to try this, okay, And I just got it in the mail a few days ago. We just popped it tonight, poured it out about fifteen minutes ago, and it is smelling. Oh, I love the smell. I'm smelling like I can't the apple. Oh, don't ask me to identify the smell. I just like it like a a taffy,

kind of like a buttery taffy. I was it's really gonna be like bourbon reviewers. So I have an idea for a show. Okay, oh definitely Apple. Yeah, let's try this baking spice. There's something else there. I feel it more on the way down. I feel it right here. Yeah, Proof that terrible, honest Hunter, Proof respectable. I like it. I think I like the other one more, but I do like this one. The Taylor. Oh no, each sailor is always better. But like I meant, the film Land, Yes, of the film Land.

Okay, I think I done a little bit more. You can you can taste Okay there it is almost like a cocoa chocolate something, which kind of makes sense because they're using that that the stout barrels from Goose Island, and you know Goose loves cocoa. Geese Geese love cocoa. Okay, yeah, definitely. So it tastes like the Pixar movie. So weird. All right, Well, listeners, if you're into Whiskey Bardstown collaborative series with Goose Island, it's if you at all, drink your stars away, please try.

It's smooth on the way down. It's got that little little but it's not like lighting up my belly or anything. No, no, it's not doing that. It's not doing like those little bottles you had at one party. You just have acid flatten bananas, almost threw up. You had a little bit of the grape one. It burned all the way down. I don't know why they make that ship to murder us all exactly, All right, why don't we finish our whiskeys? Take a break? Yes, come back

and talk about some really crazy theories about the Long Island serial killer. Yes, let's do it. Listeners, welcome back to the show. Well, the lights are turned down low, the ceremonial candle is lit, and the drinks are flowing. Let's start this show. Okay, So this is a part two, right, oscar. There's a lot they would have missed if

they didn't hear in the first episode. A lot. So if you haven't listened to episode one yet where we talk about the actual murders and the background here, make sure and go back and listen because you will be lost. So it's part two. Warning. Yeah wait, so big Neian sign. So in the last episode we introduced you to eighteen young women sex workers plus

two outliers. Remember we talked about the Asian male and that female toddler, Peach's daughter found murdered across the US from the East Coast to the West Coast, so twenty in total, bodies were found on the south shore of Long Island, specifically at Gilgo Beach and off Ocean Parkway. They were found in Manerville, Long Island, Las Vegas, Nevada, and in Atlantic City, New Jersey, and many people believe that all these women are the victims of

a single undetected killer known as the Long Island serial Killer. We also introduced you to a group of women nicknamed the Gilgo Four. Four sex workers accidentally discovered murdered at Gilgo Beach on Long Island while authorities were out searching for another

missing sex worker, a young woman named Shannon Gilbert. Six additional bodies were discovered at or around Gilgo Beach and off Ocean Parkway, and ten more bodies were found between Manerville, New York, which is also on Long Island, Las Vegas, and Atlantic City, and all these women shared eerie similarities. The Long Island ceial killer preferred petite female sex workers somewhere between one hundred pounds give or take, between twenty two to twenty seven years old, with hazel

or green eyes. Most of the victims used the Internet to advertise their services, specifically Craigslist, which is how this cycle found his victims. He shopped online when a cause of death could be determined. Most of the women were killed by strangulation, while some were horribly dismembered and their body parts scattered. Most were found near a body of water, lying face down, wrapped in burlap or cloth with their heads facing east, and some were bound by either

belts or tape or both. Now again, listeners, in case you missed it, please go back to the last episode so you could learn the specifics about each victim, their names, their backstories, and who was found where and in what condition. Also, in the last episode, we played a really disturbing nine one one call made by Shannon Gilbert the morning she went missing,

the thing that kicked off this whole nightmare. Without poor Shannon in that crazy nine to one one call, police might have never known they had a vicious serial killer in their midst, and the victim's bodies might have never been found. Now, in this episode, we're going to introduce you to a long list of suspects that might be the Long Island serial killer. Or might have been working alongside the actual Long Island serial killer, either by coincidence or

by design. And at the end of this episode, we're going to tell you all about the man that's in custody right now, accused of being the actual Long Island serial killer. Accused, not convicted. That's important now, mind you. A lot of what we're going to talk tonight talk about tonight

is only theory and speculation, but it's also incredibly interesting. And the fact that all this is still unfolding, that we have no idea of police really have the guy responsible for murdering all these women in custody makes these theories even more interesting to play with and talk about. So let's get into these theories

and see if any of them make sense. Yes, I really can't wait about it, because, like I had a lot of you know, notes the first episode on part one, which I assume everyone listening right now has listened to that already. Especially, I have a lot on Gilbert. I have a lot on that phone call relating to some of these suspects we're going

to talk about, I think two or three of them. It touches really on, and that was hopefully springboard other talks as well, but they're all centered on the victims of course, and the times and the locations of when they were missing and so on. So like, yeah, I can't wait to get into it. Awesome. Well, to start pulling, oh and you know, before we begin, we're really getting in here, go to

the show notes and check out photos again. Oh yes, I have a ton of photos there of all these suspects, and I think one new victim to one possible victim is there in the show notes. But yeah, go ahead and follow along. As Oscar you said last time, this is an interactive show, right, So go and check out those photos. It's like a pop up book. But we're podcasting and murder and murder, okay.

So to start pulling at threads, we got to look at that Oak Beach Association where Joe Brewer lived, where Shannon Gilbert went missing in the early morning hours of May first, twenty ten. I mentioned in the last episode that Oak Beach Association was a secluded private community, right, Well, apparently this is kind of an understatement. It's more like its own little country back there, with lots of privacy and apparently lots of secrets, filled with people who

don't really like outsiders. Oak Beach Association even had its own weird little doctor security guy someone will talk about in a little bit. Definitely someone strange. Now. We also mentioned last episode that Joe Brewer, the man that high Shannon, was cleared of any wrongdoing. He's not a suspect officially. Brewer was just some dumpy, unemployed finance guy looking for a good time. In fact, when he was questioned by police, Burr said he didn't even plan

on having sex with Shannon that night. He just wanted some female company, which I called bullshit immediately on because you know, as we are well aware, I hopefully well aware, and this you're outside of the country and you're not aware. You should know that prostitution is illegal in this in this in

this country except for two counties, of course, being in Nevada. That said, though, that's you know, when you're asked a question by the police whether or not you hired someone or you paid money for sex, your answer should be known. So my thinking is that he's just like covering his ass. That's what it seems like to me when you're saying you're looking for a companionship. But that's what he said. Yes, you just want a

companionship. That's what everyone says. That's what all the websites say, Like, that's what you say when you get asked that question, but especially by authorities. You don't say, oh, yeah, I'm looking to the old and out and out, you know. You don't say that it's so rough, so wrong, so wrong. I got that from a Coco corne by the way, Oh that's right, they say that that movie. Uh sorry, I folks said that sounds really terrible to say, but they said it,

and it's obviously, uh, this guy is covering his ass. Now whether or not I buy it? Do you buy light detecting tests as all? Okay? But it does kind of get police to move off of somebody, okay, or to push harder on somebody if they fail. But it's not admissible in court so as time as so they just use it as uh as like a way to start something. Yeah, it's if if someone fails a light detector test, the cops know to dig in there's something going on.

If they pass, I guess we got the wrong guy. Move on, and according to what's out there in the news. Now, that's what happened with Joe Brewer and Michael Packed if they both passed light detector tests and you buy this, you're fine with as a person. Are you asking if I think Joe Brewer had more to do with it than he claims. That was my next question, But no, I mean, in general, you

think this is an okay way of doing it. I hope there's more to ruling out Joe Brewer than just and Michael Pack than just the light detector test. I hope they have solid alibis. I hope there's some sort of evidence that ruled them out, because otherwise they should be looking because that's where she disappeared from, and like you said, he definitely will right in the middle of that storm. Yeah, I mean they're at the eye of the storm

exactly. And like you said, he's just given an excuse. Of course, he hired her to fuck I mean that's what that's what he did. So I hope there's more to it than just a light detector test. They asked the next question and a light of detective test, and he's had the same thing and it worked. Like I'm curious, like, well, yeah, you know, I'm saying, if they ask him fight out, did you kill Shannon, no checks out right, but you have something right,

well, what did he have something to do with it? Though? You know? And then you ask, well, yeah, I get we don't know the questions either. We'll never know that. I was just gonna say, I wish we knew the question. We'll never know because again, this is not even a missible court. That's highly doubt that they even have records of that kind of thing. You know, they probably make up the questions down that day, you know, it's not like yeah, thought, and

I'm sure there's a record of it somewhere. We'll never get to see it because he's not in court, right, there's no reason to release that stuff, right. I think that most that might go to court, he'll go to court is only as a witness. That's just the most the most to see him involved right in the future, and it makes me want to It makes you curious about it because Light attacked her like that's it. Like I'm not saying they're super easy to beat, not saying that. I've never been

on one, so I don't really know. But I'm really bad at testing. Though I'm a bad tester, I'm just a bad liar, you know. I think he would be a bad liar too, I would. Yeah, that's a character trait to be a bad liar. That's a good that's kind of good thing. Yeah, but no, I think he definitely he didn't hire her for just companionship to hold hands and watch Netflix. He wanted to do some de Butcher's shit, and you know it was an agreed upon

transaction. Hey whatever, Yeah, right, but something from his fucking house. So I hope there's more than a lot of detector tized Yeah, And I hope that answers your question how I feel about it. So basically, at the end of the day, you know, he's kind of a nobody so far in this story. Yeah, maybe something will come out later on

down the line, but right now he's he's kind of a nobody. But the word around the Oak Beach Association campfire is that his house, Joe Brewer's house, because it's kind of secluded and out of the way, was a party house. It's out of the way more than the other houses. It's already out of the way, right, Yeah, Yeah, it's already secluded. This place is a secluded there's even more secluded from the out o way. He's kind of off somewhere in the subdivision where he's more secluded than the

rest, like he's put on time out. Yeah, kind of okay, But because of this fact that he's kind of off on his own in this subdivision, that's where parties went on. Male parties. They would gather there private and they could basically do whatever they want. Drugs, higher escorts, lots lots of debaucher of shit, right, just men behaving badly. Yeah, And apparently it was this open secret around Oak Beach. No one really

said anything. And I've even seen in interviews with some of Joe's neighbors that they claim one of these male parties was going down that night Shannon disappeared. So while there was a party going on, this guy got a sex worker to come to his house. My immediate question to that is was it for the party? That's the implication, like in a group kind of thing, and I mean a group org you guys on one girl, which is called a gang bang, actually, but that's I mean more like entertaining like a

stripper type thing. Or is it just for him? It could be all three. I mean, I assume it's a big house because of the richness of it. So maybe he could just see, you know, its secretly take her off somewhere while the party's going on, right, have fun, and then come back. It could be that sick. It's multiple floors, it doesn't look opulent. But we kind of touched on this in last episode. I would live there because the goddamn thing looks at the ocean, so

it's got to be a million dollars and the ocean. I do love the ocean. But so yeah, he could probably sneakerr off somewhere in the home, or someone could sneaker off in the home, or multiple someone could sneaker

off in the home if they wanted to. But you know, there's no evidence directly proving that one of these parties was going on, except for people in the association talking to the media saying, yeah, Joe was having one of his parties that night, Like there's there's tex threats going on that talk about it, sure, but no one mentions that, Yeah, yeah, the hidden secret you know or the known said, what's the what I'm looking for? Open secret? Open again? Yeah, So apparently it was also

an open secret that powerful men joined these parties. We're talking political figures, business leaders, rich guys and high ranking members of the Suffolk County Police. So if that's true, did Shannon see something or someone at that house that she wasn't supposed to were high profile men behaving badly and instead of risking Shannon telling someone what she saw, was it just take her easier to take her

out to kill her? I mean, something went down at Bruce House that caused Shannon to freak out, and as you heard in the last episode, she was very clear to nine one one that she was afraid for her life that someone was trying to kill her. But on the other hand, it's also claimed that Shannon was mentally ill I believe schizophrenic, and she was known to use drugs. So was Shannon ultimately a victim of her own demons?

Kind of like what the official police word says, how you know, she was high on drugs, she ran into this Marshy area, fell ran out of gas, and drowned. So was she a victim of her demons? Or was something really shady going on with someone really trying to kill her? And unfortunately we'll probably never know, but we do know what happened with Shannon's sister Sarah and her mental illness. Remember very end of last episode, Shannon's

sister murdered her fucking mother. Yep, sabbed her over like what two hundred and forty seven times. So mental illness does run in the family. So we don't know demons or really murder. But to stick with this idea that Shannon ran a foul of someone at Joe Brewer's house, let's take a look at our first theory. Now, this first theory is that the Long Island serial killer is actually a cop, and not just any cop, but the former chief of the Suffolk County Police himself, a man named James Burke,

who is chief from twenty twelve to twenty and fifteen. Now, remember the Gilgo four were found in December of twenty ten, and Shannon Gilbert was found in December twenty eleven. So Burke comes in as chief of police right as the Long Island serial case killer case is really ramping up. You know, bodies have been found right in the Headlines are going absolutely, the media is going crazy. Families want answer, and it's clear that a serial killer or

multiple serial killers are active in the area. And what a perfect time for a brand new police chief to jump in and give it as all to solve in the case and really make a name for himself, right, But that's not what happened. In fact, it seems James Burke went out of his way to derail the investigation, and critics have long claimed that Burke set the Long Island serial killer murder investigation back by years by refusing help from the FBI.

Well. For example, in December of twenty twelve, Suffolk County Police lead investigators wanted to meet with the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Unit to try and get some help solving this case. But the District Attorney of Suffolk County, a guy named Tom Spoda, and James Burke, the chief, deemed the meeting unnecessary and basically stonewalled the FBI's involvement. It was also reported that Burke refused

the FBI's offer to create a criminal profile for the case. This is the chief of police and the DA flat out refusing the FBI is offered to help solve a high profile serial murder case. Do you know them what? Because you see this on movies, which I know it's not a source for facts. Not a great place to go if you want to know how the world works. Necessarily, But what does it take for the FBI to interfere or

like, do they have to be asked in this case? Because you know what I'm saying, like, what's the criteria for them to get their asses involved? I think the help has to be requested, Okay, if it's not, it's not they do with state line crossing maybe because another state they're like the country's police when things cross state lines and things like that, or there's a dispute over who's actually the law there, they're the laws, right,

That's like how I feel it works. So that local police agency has to, I guess, either ask for or accept the help in order for to I don't think the FBI could just jump in and say move over, we're coming in. I think because you see that's seen a lot of movies. Yeah, and I just I don't believe it works that way. It certainly didn't in this high profile case. You would think, right, That's what I'm saying. Different you know, a criminal behavioral analysis, a profile,

and the woor free. Yeah right, they don't have to pay for this, right right, So you think if they could come in and take it over, they would have. But the district attorney and the chief said, we don't need you, this isn't necessary. We got this right basically, And so a lot of people ask why why did they why did they refuse to help? Was there enough I'll cry on this like at that time or is this something that just people complained about after like way too late?

Maybe? So I think that's part of the problem is that in the beginning nothing was being done. Do you remember Shannon Gilbert's mother, Mary was always out there. They waited five months before even into viewing gus Coletti. Right then the lady realized that Shannon nine to one one girl was the same girl that was reporting miss reported missing? Right obvious or easy to find? Right?

Yeah, it's and that's part of the conspiracy is that the police, it seems, sat on their hands for a very long time on this case. Then they went ahead and fled out, refused help from the FBI.

So people are like, wait a minute. Victim's family is like, wait a minute, what's going on. I remember you were mentioning also that you know, as find it hard to believe they wouldn't trace that call during the twenty one minute you know nine one call, or that they wouldn't have dispatched police officers and they would have gone their way before it was too way before the call ended, even, right, And that to that, I kind of say, like, well, there was this one time that I,

by Musa, was next to someone that called the police, Rob actually, and I was there and he called the police during this thing we were doing late one night and we were two or three blocks away from the police station. They never came. It was there for a while too, more than twenty Oh oh my god, they never came. Now that's just that's just

Chicago. It sounds that could be us, but that happened, And I'm just saying I'm not surprised hearing that, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah it And part of the reason could be that the police took so long to get there is because the dispatcher was trying to figure out what county she was calling from. Remember there, I remember that, two different counties. That could be the reason, But man, I don't know, twenty three minutes is a long time. Plus they were getting multiple calls from neighbors.

You think someone had said, all right, just someone get out there and check this out. Yeah. I also have a question about her mental illness. I guess, yeah, her mental check stuff because there's a history of it, for sure. I'm not saying that. You know, just because one member of your family has schizophrenia doesn't mean that everyone has it either. But she could have a version of that or something. I can buy that

completely. I'm not saying that. I remember in the first episode one of fifties you guys that we talked about how there was no drugs found in her system. If she is someone that has mental health issues, then most likely she's getting it treated daily, something that she takes in daily. So was that did they test for something like that, did they find that, or is there like a lack of taking them that led to this. Maybe it

led to something that could explain her behavior or vice versa. Maybe like she took them or this is a completely normal reaction. You know, it's hard to tell. But the fact that there was no drugs in the system, if she has mental some mental issues that requires drugs, like schizophrenia, she should be that she should be shown on the autopsy. Yeah, I read I read doctor Michael Badden's autopsy report right, and it did not talk about

any sort of a regular medicinal that she was taking rug use. Yeah, nothing did mention anything like that? Right, And we don't and we don't know, right, we don't know something we don't know offer meds to well, we don't know if I mean, we don't know if she even had to take that true, Like we know how bad it is. It was sorry, if it existed, right, or if it existed at all?

Right. I feel like in these kind of cases always seems to just like treat the victim as if they're saying, why I start there and then work your way but down? You know, right, isn't that the very essence of planning for the worst but hoping for the best? Yeah, it is, right, Like that's what bugs me. The whole thing is fishy. Yeah, and it sucks that we'll never know, No, we'll never know.

It sucks. So we were talking about James Burke, Yes, no, no, and people ask, well, why did he stonewall the FBI's involvement. It's because Burke isn't a good guy. This is not a good chief of police. It's crooked as fuck. Actually, and as it turns out, so was the district Attorney Tom Spoda. But we're gonna get to that. But Now, as far as Burke goes, this is a guy that used to tell people that he wanted to become a cop so he could

break the law. These guys, he said, to break the law, and that's why he wanted to become a cop, so we could break the law. This is the kind of person we're dealing with. So basically, Burke wanted to prevent the FBI from working with the Suffolk County PD so his own terrible behavior wouldn't be exposed. Because Burke, he really likes prostitutes like

a lot. People describe him as this sex obsessed narcissist, a short man with a Napoleon complex who was known to have sex with prostitutes in his own service vehicle, in his own cop car, where these women of less than you know, ideal character had access to his gun and his badge. Exactly, you don't do this, yes, now, this his behavior actually made it to the press and lurid tales of his violence. Yeah, his violence

towards sex workers were all over the media. There were allegations he threw women to the ground and had been violent with them during oral sex. And these allegations go all the way back to the nineteen nineties when there was an internal investigation into burke sexual relationships with prostitutes. He's been accused of shaking down crack dealers, then using the crack himself albanging prostitutes. He drove drunk and wrecked

service vehicles and used his status to get away with it. He think the woof Wah Street by worse. Yeah, just a puke of a guy, but he had powerful connections, namely that DA, the District Attorney Tom Spoda, and Spoda helped Burke rise through the ranks of the Suffolk County PD until he made chief of one of the largest police agencies in the United States, despite his history of you know, let's just call it less than honorable behavior. Now you may be asking how did a guy like this get to be

chief? And that's a great question, one that many people have asked over the years, and it all goes back to a relationship Tom Spoda that the DA struck up with James Burke in the late nineteen seventies, back when Spoda was just a young prosecutor and James Burke was just a punk, a fourteen year old kid. You see, back in nineteen seventy nine, SPODA was prosecuting an incredibly high profile case of a murdered thirteen year old boy from Smithtown

on Long Island, where James Burke lived. At the time, SPODA was known to strike deals with these low level criminals in exchange for their testimony, and whether or not the testimony was factual seemed to sometimes take a back seat to securing a conviction. Now, SPODA secured testimony from a fourteen year old kid, a small time weed dealer who bragged about committing one hundred burglaries in

his neighborhood, just a punk heading down the wrong path. And this kid, of course, was James Burke. Now, Burke's testimony helps SPODA secure convictions in this murder case, and today there are huge doubts about the accuracy of Burke's testimony, but SPODA got his convictions and ever since, Burke and Spoda were inseparable. In a lot of ways, Spota was like Burke's mentor, and he definitely helped Burke rise through the ranks of the Suffolk County PD

and kind of insulate them from all his craziness. Now, ultimately, Burke's career ended in disgrace after he was convicted of beating the shit out of a junkie and a thief named Christopher Lob and then covering the whole thing up.

You see. On December fourteenth, twenty twelve, police arrested twenty six year old Christopher Lob outside his mother's house in Smithdown, New York for stealing a Duffel bag from the backseat of a black GMC Yukon the duffel bag lobes stole contain items belonging to a cop, ammunition, handcuffs, mason a gun, but the duffel bag also contained stuff you wouldn't expect to find in a cops

bag. Sitting in the bag, next to the standard issue police gear were sex toys, butt plugs, lube, and what the media described as quote possibly illegal pornography like videos like tapes. Yes, ah, here's the kicker. Guess who the bag belonged to, fuck James Burke Now. Loeb himself said he knew the bag belonged to a cop because word on the street was that this particular cop was known to shake down drug dealers and keep the drug for his own news. So Lob went to this CoP's house and entered the

SUV looking for drugs. Instead, he got the crooked ass chief of Suffolk County Police's bag of smut. Word hit the street that Burke's bag was stolen, and lob was very quickly apprehended at his mom's house in Smithtown. Now, when Burke learned of Loeb's arrest, he was so concerned about hiding the contents of his bag that he raced over Loeb's mother's house and tampered with the crime scene, taking the Duffel bag in direct violation of police procedure and protocol.

So think about this for a second. In this scenario, Burk's the victim. So you have the victim of a crime entering the crime scene and taking evidence. You can't do that. Nope, there's a chain of evidence, right, it's not it. Now. During Loebe's arrest, the cops slammed him to the ground and roughed them up really good. But when his mother came out to protest, Loeb was quickly whisked away to the Suffolk County

Police station, where things got a lot worse. Once at the station, Loeb wasn't read as rights and he was flat out denied access to a lawyer. Instead, he was handcuffed and chained to an eyebolt in the floor, hunched over and defenseless. He said he was held in this position for ten hours. That's got to be torture now. Eventually Burke entered the room and proceeded to beat the living shit out of Lobe while threatening to kill him with the hot dose of heroin. Other cops in the room, and yes,

there were witnesses to this, they threatened to rape his mother. These are good guys. Now. Apparently Burke beat Lobes so badly that a detective had to intervene and physically pull Burke off of the guy. Burke then threatened officers under him, who he referred to as his palace guards fucking asshole, to keep their mouth shut or else. Reportedly, he scared one cop so badly that later on on the witness stand, this cop lied about the incident under

oath just to avoid Burke's wrath. That's how afraid of Burkey was. So I'm curious, like, did he pulled the detective that pulled them off him? Is this like from the heat of beating him up? Is that what they were supposed to take from it? Or was he asking the guy questions and he wasn't giving him the right answers. I think he's a little bit of both, Okay, yeah, more leaning towards just beating the shit out of them, right. And three, he seems to really enjoy putting a

person down. And look at his picture in the show notes. Wait do you see this guy? I mean you could just see it. He's just got that face and the mustache. You know what I mean? That pushbroom mustache happens when you like ignore shouldn't behaviors early on in child you know, when you think of the young people and stuff, when they start something like that, when you ignore the kind of thing, this is how it's nowballs

and to worser worser. Well, then you got people protecting him. So he's got like carp blonche just your tactics, galore, Let that id out man, and the ID takes over, yikes man. Christopher Lowe would go on to sue the Suffolk County PD. James Burke resigned from his position in October twenty fifteen, and in February twenty sixteen, after a lengthy FBI probe, Burke pled guilty to federal charges of violating Christopher Lobe's rights and knowingly conspiring

to conceal evidence of it. He was sentenced to forty six month in federal prison and along with three years of supervised release. Now Tom Spoda, the DA and the guy that helped Burke stonewall the FBI's assistance with the Long Island serial killer case, was convicted in twenty nineteen to five years in prison for witness tampering, obstructive justice, and conspiracy and effort to help Burke hide his crimes against Christopher Lobe. Just corruption, through and through. And that's years

after, from top to bottom. Yeah, that's the years after. But the damage has been done on the case anyway. Oh right, it's already set back. Like you sit back, I get too fucking late. It's set back. Rumors are running rampid that the cops don't care, that it's a cover up. I mean, he did a lot of damage. But it also goes hand in hand with what you said in the first episode, too is a part one where like you know, they don't care about sex

workers. That's what these victims are. Theyn't give a shit, that's what it certainly that backs that up more. Yeah, yeah, Now, it's really crazy, is that. Later on in interviews, Christopher Lowe claimed that in Burke's duffel bag he found some DVDs and on the cover of one of those DVDs was what appeared to be a pre pubescent boy, and another DVD, which Loeb claimed to have watched and even recorded bits on his cell phone, supposedly showed a girl on a bed in a darkened room being tortured by

a man in a mask. A snuff film. In other words, oh okay. Now. It's important to note that Christopher Loeb's DVD claims have never been verified publicly, nor has his cell phone footage ever been seen. But what he claims he saw does recall what was printed in the media about the Chief's duffel bag containing possibly illegal pornography quote unquote right, and people speculate that the man in the snuff film, the one torturing the woman, is none

other than Chief James Burke. So after all this, we finally get to our theory that James Burke is the Long Island serial kill. He's corrupt as fuck, he has a documented history of being violent towards sex workers, and he very obviously blocked the FBI from assisting in the Long Island serial killer case. Also, if you remember from the last episode, we said that the

killer made multiple taunting calls to Melissa Barthelmy's sister. I think believe he called her up to eight times, and he also made a call to one of Marine Brainerd Barnes's friends. Each call lasted just long enough to not be traced to an exact location and cell tower pings, and a lot of these calls came from Manhattan, an incredibly busy place loaded with people on cell phones, making any attempt at pinpointing a specific phone or locating any video evidence impossible.

Check any streetcam or security cam in Manhattan and you'll see a thousand people talking on cell phones. How do you identify a suspect? It's almost as if the killer understands police tactics and more importantly, how to avoid them. And who understands police tactics better than a cop in this case, a violent, crooked chief of police with a ravenous taste for hookers. I hear something else. The victims found up and down Ocean Parkway were actually found in two different

counties, Suffolk County and Nassau County. And what do we know about these geographical lines When it comes to crime, information sharing and responsibilities suddenly become a little clouded and convoluted, hindering investigations. A cop would know that disposing bodies across multiple counties would make things more difficult, not impossible, but definitely harder.

And like we said, if you listened to Shannon Gilbert's call that we plaid last episode, the nine one one operator was trying to figure out whether Shannon was in Suffolk or Nassau County so the correct cops could be dispatched. All of this is how James Burke became an unofficial suspect in the Law Island murders. But again keep in mind, officially Burke has never been charged or even named a suspect or even looked at. From what I can tell,

there's only three people being looked at. The one accused currently and the two people like the one that drove from Shannon Gilbert and and the other guy Joe Brewer Gilbert thank you. Yeah, I'm bad with names. But when you take all his circumstantial evidence, that's what it is, it's circumstantial evidence.

You can see how some people could think he was the killer, right m H. It's also rumored that Burke and his lackeys were part of the boys club that partied at Joe Brewer's house, and therefore Burke could be involved in Shannon Gilbert's death or he was at Joe Brewer's house tonight Shannon Gilbert went missing and is helping to cover up for someone. But who now An attorney for Shannon Gilbert's family, guy named John Ray. We talked about him in the

last episode. He came forward with the sworn statement from a sex worker who said that she witnessed Burke used drugs and party with sex workers on two occasions in the Oak Beach Association where Shannon's remains were found. At least one of itch took place in twenty eleven, meaning Burke was doing this while the Long Island serial killer investigation was in full swing. So what do you think was that at the same house? So no, never said, never said,

just in Oak Beach Association, never pinpointed to Brewer's house. Do you think we have a killer cop on our hands? Well, the I mean, as far as this theory goes, the suspect looks very pretty fucking suspicious. Looks very tasty. Yeah, it looks like he's he's the guy. I'm not saying he's the guy, but like he's only our first suspect, guys, but he looks like a really good candidate. The anger management or mismanagement really and his lifestyle in general, his I mean the cop tactics you mentioned,

the fact that he would know about the Selping towers. Makes sense to go to a crowded area, especially back then people were more on their phones guys nowadays than no one on their phone as much. But multiple counties, counties and flouting things up a little bit, right if if you if you buy that's one killer still in this case, I like that a lot. Obviously I know some more than than you guys do at this current time.

But it makes uh Is there any way that there's no confirmation whatsoever that a he was there that night or b that he did even go to these parties? Right, so we we have that. All we have is that one according to the lawyer, that there is a sworn affidavit that's punishable by jail time if proven to be false, that he was on two occasions seen in that association partying with hookers and doing drugs. Can I make an affidavit that peanut butter and jelly is great? Is you sure? Is that a thing

that kind of happened? I would sign that effidy false? Right, yes, I'm saying, Okay, So well, well that is damning and that's pretty cool. I mean obviously no one, even an affid David form. I doubt that people will still take the word of a sex worker that seriously. Probably, but maybe not. I don't know. I like that, I think, I mean, I mean, he sounds pretty legit. Yeah, not to mention. I mean, you didn't even talk about his documented

violence towards prostitutes that he was under investigation for. Well, that's the thing, is that that kind of thing, you know, even if he like he's still remained to be a cop, which obviously he did back in the nineties or was it eighties nineties? Right, Well, I mean he resigned in the no no, no, that first thing in that first incident.

Oh that was like yeah, like the early nineties, right, So like I feel like that kind of thing should immediately make you inable unable to run for chief one, you know what I'm saying that that alone, but that gives you an idea of how this Blue Boys Club gets along in Suffo. I do also like it made a very cavalier too, because he talked about him. He's very cavalier about it. He could tell he does it all the time. He probably flaunts it a little bit. He doesn't give a

shit you talk about the little lords. He talks about his palace guards out of cards, how refers to them in probably public. Nope, without a care about it. He's like he's like a Kevin, like a male Karen. Right. He just looks like a huge top up all that right, Yeah, one of those right. Like I feel like also because of that, I feel like he would be more dumb, you know, like a dumb person. But like also I can see him making those calls to those

people's families, Barnes's and Parthellamies. Yeah, the taunting. I can see him doing that, like a bully thing. Maybe you know that feels right with this guy. I haven't seen a picture of him. Of course, you guys can do that in your show notes. I don't have the show notes because we're making the show. But I don't know. I mean, it's guys, such an asshole, I kind of like import right now.

So right now, you could buy into a killer cop theory. Yeah, yeah, especially if he was there at the party, which I can easily envision. You know, I wonder what they have the week that was. We know, we don't we have that we could easily. I don't even think that matters. People can party whenever, day of the week, but especially if you're According to the news reports, Joe Brewer was an unemployed finance person. So you don't have a job, you can party seven days a

week. Yeah, you know that's true. Well, if not a killer cop, what about a killer doctor? H our Next theory? No, okay, next theory. We're going to talk about a really strange guy that might be a suspect at least in Shannon Gilbert's death and maybe more. I'd like to introduce you to the former head of the Suffolk County Emergency Medical Services, doctor Peter Hackett. So this isn't a shlub. This guy was the head of Suffolk County Emergency Medical Services. Now, as they said, doctor

Hackett, he's a strange one. He lived in Oak Beach Association for a long time. He raised a family there, and he was kind of this big shot around the association. He acted as the association's emergency services guy because he's a doctor, and he acted as their security guy. So anytime something

went down at this association, doctor Hackett was involved. Now, not only does Hackett's backyard but up against the area where Shannon Gilbert's skeletal remains were found, Like you could literally see where her remains were found from this guy's back

porch. Not only that, but two days after Shannon went missing, So on May third, twenty ten, doctor Hackett called Mary Gilbert, Shannon's mother, and he told her that he Hackett runs a halfway house for girls that want to get off the street, and that Shannon was at his house the night she went missing. Doctor Hackett allegedly told Shannon's mom that on the night Shannon went missing, she was in distress, so he treated her and he medicated her, and he said she left with her driver, Michael Pack,

and that he Hackett was calling because he was worried about Shannon. Now, obviously Mary Gilbert, Shannon's mom, she was just floored by Hackett's call, so she sends her daughters, Shannon's sisters, out to Long Island to Oak Beach, association to doctor Hackett's house, but when the sisters confront him, Hackett flat out denied ever calling their mother. He denied ever interacting with Shannon the night she disappeared, denied medicating her, and he denied running a halfway

house for wayward girls. However, phone records provided by Mary Gilbert proved Hackett did call her on the date she said he did, on May third, two days after Shannon went missing. So we know Hackett made the call, we got the proof. We know he's a liar. We just don't know exactly what he said. There's no record of the conversation, so all we could go by is what Mary Gilbert claims he said. So, in Mary Gilbert's eyes, if Hackett is lying about making the call, what else is

he lying about. In fact, Mary was so convinced that doctor Hackett had something to do with her daughter's death, Shannon's death, she filed the wrongful death suit against him, claiming that Hackett's treatment and medication ultimately led to Shannon's death. And if you remember when we talked about the second autopsy on Shannon's remains, the one conducted by doctor Michael Badden, he said a small hole

was found in Shannon's hyoid bone. Remember that, yes, could this small hole have come from, say a syringe like Hackett ejected something into Shannon. Now it's important to note that the police do not consider Hackett a suspect, but Hackett was known to treat his neighbors and provide them with prescriptions, some prescriptions in the form of injectables, and at times Shannon certainly sounded drugged in the nine one one call we played last episode, and doctor Hackett would have

the means and access to drug Shannon. I'm telling you, this guy is weird. I watched this one video or an interviewer from Crime Watch Daily tried to corner doctor Hackett and ask him about the allegations that he had something to do with Shannon's death, and I swear to God, Oscar Hackett on camera

fakes a heart attack in an attempt to throw off this interviewer. He screams, he grabs his chest, falls to the ground, and when the interviewer says he's gonna call nine one one, Hackett refuses, saying that if anyone calls nine one one, he'll just refuse service because he's a doctor and he knows what's going on is he appears Harthorne from community to baking heart attacks. Huw okay. So I'll leave a link to this video so you guys can

see it. I'll even put a timestamp where to start watching this video. But I mean, after a few seconds, he gets up like nothing happened. He gets into his car and he just drives away. It's the craziest thing. It's very uncomfortable to watch. And again I'll leave a link to this video with the timestamp where you start watching to see this unfold and you tell us was Hacket? Was Hackett faking it to get out of this interview or was it a real heart attack? But it is strange, that is

its very strange. Also, was thinking about that pinprick, Yes, the hire bone. I forgot the very simple fact that Battons was the second person to autops here. Yeah that was the set. Yeah, because remember the first autops he done by the self kind of medical examiner said that she wasn't murdered, there was no violence, death by misadventure, but no drugs in her system, but cause of death undetermined. The vishal cause death was undetermined.

So her family is like, we need another opinion, right, so they hired this doctor. Mind, I wonder if somehow doing that first autops here, somewhere within the window of time of her body being found and doctor Baton getting the body to examine again, could she have been injected there or could that body been disturbed in some way oh, during the first autopsy, Yeah, to make it look like something was done. I mean theoretically,

I guess it's possible. I mean, I don't know what that will do or lead, especially since the sheriff's County White is in charge of this case at the time, the asshole Burke, right, yeah, and his police as men are and his medical examiner his case has his case, right, Yeah, how I mean, it seems like could have been injected post homies

or something. Thinking out, I don't know. I'm just saying it seems very I didn't think about that until right now, about that if that is an injection spot, if it is important that little dot, right, that puncture could have been made after she died. Again, I guess theoretically it could. You know, well, I also don't know what to accomplish. It was something that will fuck up doctor Batton's examination, That'll be the ideal.

Well, he's the one who found that that high wind was actually cracked and it had that punctual Well, the crack and the puncture are two different things. Yeah, but it shows violence according to Baden, Yes, yes, which negates what Sofa County Medical Examiner said that there was no violence. Yeah. I had a theory about that too, that that bone, because you say it was cracked, and then it's something that something that looks like it was a needle doesn't have to be a needle to be something else.

I figured, like, what if she while being strangled choked, which we know the serra kill loves to do. Yes, maybe this time like he had a ring facing the wrong way or something else was and then punctured her. You know, something else could have pushed that far in some sort of point. I don't know, if he was holding keys, you know, think of what could do it, you know, and like maybe doing this strangulation, this thing that looks like a needle injection could be made while the

strangulation was happening. I was thinking about that as well. Yeah, it's possible, I guess anyway. Yeah, it's it's crazy, it's crazy. Yeah, Now continue on with Hackett. Shortly after Shannon's body was discovered, Hackett sold his house and moved to Fort Myers, Florida. Now, and I don't think that's too suspicious, because you know, he's got the media on him. You know, Shannon's family is visiting him. His name's being dragged through the mud. So he moves, you know, his family to

Fort Myers. But that just adds to this, to his strangeness to a lot of people. Now, after strangely, after all this circumstantial evidence against Hackett, police have not interviewed him as a suspect. They haven't gotten a written statement from him. And you refuse a polygraph test, yet the police won't really take a look at him. I don't know, See, what do you think about that he's refusing a polygraph has not enough to try to

investigate further. And unless they did investigate further and found nothing, yeah, I guess they got nothing on him. Apparently they say he's just one of those weird guys that likes to inject themselves into everything, be in the center of everything. Now, it's also said that our strange doctor Hackett has contacts with all the big shots that party at Joe Brewer's house, the politicians, the police, the rich guys, the rich businessmen, which is why he

was never investigated. He's insulated. Either that or Hackett was being used like a patsy to kind of draw attention away from the real killer. Again, it's all theory. Well, if he was made to be a patsy, obviously it didn't work at all because the police didn't even fucking look at him. Right now, it failed, which is the sheriff guy that right now is number one, So that'spy. It's like weird. Yeah, yeah, it's theory, but it's interesting. You know, was doctor Hackett at Brewer's

house that night? Did he really drug Shannon? And that's why she sounded so whacked out on the nine to one one call. If he did, why I think it's professional is what leads. Yeah, yeah, if he did drug her, was she meant to die or were the drugs meant to just kind of make her more compliant so she went and struggle when the men

had their way with her. Or maybe Hackett wasn't at the party, but instead Shannon made the mistake of banging on hackett store, just like she did with Gus Colletti and Barbara Brennan after she ran from Brewer's house, but instead of finding someone sympathetic and willing to help, she found Hackett in a syringe. And again, I'm not trying to feed the conspiracy fire here, but Hackett is someone a lot of people point to is being involved in these murders,

if not being the Long Island serial killer himself. So yeah, to get an out of this neighborhood, Like, could she have run to him within that same block? I mean, is it around there. It's it's not a huge place, so I'm guessing she probably could have ran there. I'm sure that could be seen somebody. I don't have a layout in my head or a blueprint or anything, but you know, I'm just curious if she could have been, if he could have been one of the people she

knocked, right, it could have been. Yeah. Yeah, he's weird. He's you know, he sounds like he sounds like the therapist of Laura Palmer in Twin Peaks. Oh, I remember the fucking weirdo. He's like the weirdo doctor guy. Yeah, that's kind of that's what this guy remind how they described this guy. That's that's a good analogy. He's like he's like one of the very first suspects in that show because he has the other locket, the other half of the locket everyone's looking for because like whoever has

the other half is the killer and he has it. It's you know, like a just like a weirdo that's just to Hawaiian music all day, that's what. And if you see go to the show notes and we got a picture of Hacket. Yeah, he he looks strange. He's a strange looking cat. So it all kind of can't ask you. Yeah, Oh, it was a great show. I love it. So we got possibly a killer cop, a crazy killer doctor. Possibly here's another tantalizing thread. We

can pull that and try to unravel who the killer might be. Remember, many of the victim's bodies were found wrapped in burlap. This is one of the links that holds this victim chain together. This burlap material. Apparently, the bar lap, the burr lap that was found with many of the victims isn't something you can just walk into a home depot and buy. It had to come from a supplier, and if you could believe it, there's just

one main supplier of this burr lap on Long Island. Really, it's a wholesale nursery operation called Beset Nurseries, owned by a wealthy businessman named Jim Bessett the Third James Bissett the Third now Bassett, along with his business partner Joe Petresse, they founded the Long Island Aquarium in Riverhead, Long Island. This massive aquarium and entertainment complex complete with a twenty eight thousand square foot ballroom and

a one hundred room ocean front high at hotel. So Bissett is very successful, very wealthy, and he's a well respected leader in his community. People described him as a wonderful person, a captain of industry, a visionary, and someone that everyone loved. He was even described as Walt Disney esque.

So here's where it gets crazy. Just one day after Shannon Gilbert's remains were found, on December fourteenth, twenty eleven, James Bissett the Third was found dead in his car in Veterans Park from apparent suicide, not far from his sprawling estate in Mattatuck, Long Island. No cause of death was ever released, but police said his death did not appear to be suspicious. So since Besett owned Beset, nurseries, and he had easy access to this burlap material

that was found with the victims. And since he literally committed suicide immediately after Shannon was found, it's no surprise people pointed their fingers at Bissett being the Long Island serial killer. I mean, everything's a little too convenient, isn't it now? James B. Bessett was never officially named a suspect in the murders, and he was never officially tied to Joe Brewer's sex parties if they existed. But could he have been one of the powerful businessmen that supposedly parted

there? Could he have been involved with Shannon? Why would he kill himself immediately after Shannon's remains were found. It's just too juicy to ignore. But again bears repeating. Just like Michael Pack, Joe Brewer, James Burke, and Doctor Hackett, James Bessett was never named a suspect in the murders now, believe it or not, Bessett is not the only executive from the Long

Island Aquarium that is dyed by apparent suicide. Robert Laniari, the food services director for the Long Island Aquarium, was found dead of an apparent suicide on June thirteenth, twenty thirteen, just eighteen months after Jane Bessett's suicide. Not a lot of information is available out there at all on Lanari, and an official cause of death wasn't released. But man, either the aquarium business is a lot more dangerous than anyone could have imagined, or stressful, Yeah,

or something really fishy is going on with this story. I couldn't help the pun. What do you think? So obviously I don't. I don't think he is the killer. I mean I think I say no. I think I say hard no on this guy, mainly because dramatically, cinematically even and there's no centema here. It feels like a letdown if this guy tend if this guy were to be the guy. Really it's a letdown because he's dead already. Oh I because he killed himself. Nobody knows anything about him.

I think the real question here is like to figure out how that it's a coincidence, maybe that he committed suicide at this time. We need to know contextually what was going on in his life. Yeah, to really bring some more light into what happened that day or what led to that day beyond that

point. The most obvious question I had while you were telling me that fact is that the day after Shannon's body was discovered, was it already in the news that fast was did everyone know or is it just police that knew. I'm pretty sure it was in the news by that point. Okay, then if it was, then yes, he could have heard of Okay, I was curious, curity. I mean, that's pretty fast. I know, we see again, I see that a lot of the movies. I don't

know how accurate those movies are. But well, let's think about this here quickly. This is a small this is oh that's too a small a small era of people. Yeah, same as part of the club unquote. But there's a Facebook of WhatsApp conversation going on. But again, you can see where Shannon's remains were found from Hackett's porch, right, So the association would have known immediately when that body was found, word would have got out like

that. So whether even if it wasn't in the media immediately, word would have gotten out instantly because everyone saw it, you know, amazing. I mean, I'm sure a sleuth I can see that being a juicy thing. Like you freaked out right killed himself. Another one is that the fact that his death was not suspect but undetermined you said, or something what you say? No cause of death was released, so they didn't say if he slid his wrists, if he shot himself. Now could they could that that kind

of thing? The fact that they say that to to the public, no cause of death, we don't like then not releasing one. Could that be to not? You know? To is that? Is that for for the benefit or the sympathy of his family, to release I would hope. So is that why I'm saying. I would hope it is is that way for sure? But I would hope so. Okay, what especially if this this because they remember I said he was so loved Captain Disney Disney, they wouldn't

want to maybe antisemitic. Kelly really hated Juice right, left, right and left. Uh. I would hope it would be for his family. But it could have been pills. They never said. But what they did release is that it wasn't suspicious. He wasn't murdered. In other words, you know, it's funny because he does feel third fittle though to to the doctor

and to Burke. As far as people are closest to this guy. To this case, I mean, and and by this case, I really mean to Shannon Gilbert, because we mentioned on the last episode she's the unsung hero, because we know the most of her. She's the only victim we heard our voice, the only victim that led to all the other ones, the most latest victim because of that many right, so like she's pretty important, right almost oftentimes the last victim that catches the killer because the last one you

know. So uh So, it feels like because Burke was closer, not closer for real, I just mean that closer in the circles, you know, dealing with sex workers, not the right beating the shit out of the sex workers, being at parties, being in the rich parties in the area. Possibly most likely, like it's circumstantial in the sense that we don't know for sure because we can't fact check something like this. But also the fact that they were in charge of the investigation makes me feel like, is that

why they didn't pursue the good doctor from denying the light detective test? But that because that I also have led to maybe uh be set realizing that, oh shit, I know the customer that buys my birl aft sacks and he gets killed. Yeah, he gets a whole bottle's worth of as usual medication

to kill him off, you know, or something like that. We don't know, And it makes you really open up the can of worms of possibilities that how they how much more evil this could thing, this thing could be, which obviously the most evil, the more evil it sounds, the less likely it is because reality is weird that way. We're like, we're more brutal in reality, but not really quite that evil. So it makes you ask these questions and it sounds more ridiculous as I ask them. But all

these three are connected in a way, right, they're really connected. Well, and they found them at that veterans park in Madatuck. Madatuck is in Suffolk County, OK. So who would be looking at that murder that crime scene? Well, yeah, the bad police and not saying that all of the Suffoc County police are bad, right, but definitely not just one. The track record, he is not just one someone seeing some of these actions, even if they're innocent, let's say, and they're not doing anything about

it. That's also part of it. Yeah, just you get arrested for not doing for negligence, right, right, But if these you know, someone who's in the know, we'll say, put a gun in this guy's hand and made it staged suicide. Right. We don't even know what ye we don't know if it was medication or a gunshot. We don't know shit. So if you want to look at it, you know, in those conspiracy tinted glasses, may man, anything could have happened to that man.

Well that's the problem with not releasing what their cause of that. You know, it's like you have to these rooms just run rampant. It really does, I mean obviously, and they don't care. Most police officials of any county, of any state FBI included, they don't care what people think as long as they know and they arrest the right person exactly, and then that's

all they should really care about. Of course, I'm on their side in that sense, yes, But in this case because of the history of this bad police, especially the bad chief chief to be at this time and you he's not the chief yet, but like doesn't sound good, it doesn't look good. He was chief in twenty and twelve, so Shanning Gibber was one twenty and eleven. Most likely he wasn't chief yet, right, I believe so that's what he said. I'm gonna go with that. I gotta go

back to my note SAT. Yeah, it's it's crazy. I don't know, but we really should leave the weirdos at the Oak Beach Association and move on. Yeah, let's shift our focus to something else that's really tantalizing. Is the multiple serial killer theory. Now that the theory is that the Long Island serial killer, either knowingly or unknowingly, wasn't acting alone, that there were multiple serial killers involved. So the last bodies left by the Long Island

serial killer that we know of were found in April of twenty eleven. That would be Valerie mack Jane Doe number three or Peaches we call her Peach's toddler daughter Karen Forgot on Fire Island and Asian male. The Asian that was just as a woman. Shannon Gilbert was found in December of twenty eleven, a bit later than the others, but we're not sure Shannon is even connected because her pattern is so different. We're not even sure she was murdered so for

at least a decade. As far as we know, the Long Island serial killer hasn't killed anyone, and people speculate as to why he simply stopped killing. He's in prison, he moved from the area, switched methods, and he's still active in another state. He's dead or he was killed. So

this is a really interesting theory. There's this predominant theory that coincidentally the Long Island serial killer wasn't the only serial murderer using Gilgo Beach in Ocean Parkway as their dumping ground, that in fact, there were multiple serial killers at work

snuffing out prostitutes and burying them up and down Ocean Parkway. This would explain why earlier victims like Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mack, Karen Ergatta in Paches were all dismembered and they remain scattered, while the Gilgo four women were left intact. This could mean two things. One that in the beginning, the Long Island serial Killer was so worried about getting caught he dismembered and scattered his victims to make them harder to identify, therefore harder for him to get caught.

And after some time of not getting caught, he got more ballsy and he just left the bodies intact, his fear of being apprehended gone. That's one possibility. His mentality changed, so did his mo The other possibility, and many people prescribed to this theory, is that there are at least two different serial killers responsible for all these murders. The women found dismembered in the pine barrens of Manerville, New York and at gilgo In Ocean Parkway could have been

killed by someone else. Someone the media is dubbed the Manorville Butcher a Torso killer, and the gilgo for women were killed by the Long Island serial killer, who's more of a trophy killer. Now. These Torso killers are extreme sadists that dismember their victims a lot of times while they're still alive, and they like to dump their bodies where they could be easily found, as if say into the world, look what I did, Look how great I am?

And Torso killers are known to scatter victim body parts across multiple areas, and they're very angry, very territorial people. So another tantalizing theory is that the Manerville butcher the Torso killer was taunting or even hunting the Long Island serial

killer. This theory basically says that the Manerville Butcher knowingly left dismembered body parts from prostitutes he killed in the Long Island serial Killer's trophy garden, kind of desecrating what the Long Island serial killer was trying to do around Ocean Parkway,

his stomping grounds, his trophy garden. And really, what better way to desecrate the Long Island serial killer's perfect trophy garden than the toss in dismembered body parts of women the Long Island serial Killer didn't kill, and throw in a male, the unidentified Asian man, the outlier, and a toddler into the

mix. It could be interpreted as the territorial manivil Butcher, the Torso killer signaling to the Long Island serial killer and saying, hey, I'm here too, and there's not a fucking thing you could do about it, Like they're having a dialogue and shit the valley just using body parts, right, God, who knows. Maybe the Long Island serial Killer was getting too much attention and the Manruviel Butcher didn't like it. Maybe the butcher didn't like someone else

killing his prey. Remember, Torso killers are known to be territorial, so who knows, Some even speculate that maybe the Manorville Butcher killed the Long Island serial killer to do away with the competition, and that's why we haven't seen the Long Island serial Killers handywork in over a decade. And I know it's funny but just a theory, and a lot of people crap on this idea of the competing killers, but I thought it's incredibly interesting. Nonetheless at the

cool movie idea. Yeah, and apparently there's historical reference to this exact type of behavior. Now, I'm not a ripperlogist, but from what I understand, back between eighteen eighty eight and eighteen ninety one, when Jack the Ripper was slicing and dicing his way through Whitechapel in East London, England, there was another killer, a Torso killer, brutally killing women at the same time. This is fact, and this guy was even more brutal than Jack the

Ripper, leaving women all over Jack's territory. And one theory states that Jack the Ripper suddenly stopped killing because this unknown Torso killer murdered them. So this isn't unheard of, this idea of warring serial killers. Anyway, there are no less than four serial murders, murderers besides the Long Island serial killer that could be responsible for some of the bodies found in Las Vegas, Atlantic City, and up and down Ocean Parkway on Long Island. Now, I'm not

going to get into the weeds with all these guys. We just don't have the time, but I do want to touch on them in First, we have Joel the Ripper Rifkin, one of the most prolific serial killers in American history, a real piece of shit that we really should cover one day. Now. Rifkin owned a landscaping business and he lived in his mother's basement in

East Meadow, Long Island. And at the same time, he was a notorious Torso killer, believed to have killed up to seventeen prostitutes between nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety three. Just to give you an idea of what a sick fuck this guy was, he left the head of one of his victims at the seventh hole of a golf course in Hopewell, New Jersey. Then he proceeded to toss the other bits and pieces of her all around the Tri

state area. If you remember from the last episode, the Dismembered torso of a woman know miss Peaches, was found in Lakeview, Long Island, and later in twenty eleven, her dismembered bones were found inside a plastic bag near Jones Beach State Park, further down Ocean Parkway from Gilgo Beach. The remains of Peach's younger daughter were also found off Ocean Parkway in twenty eleven. So could Rifkin be responsible for these murders? Maybe he started two years earlier then

we're really aware of It's definitely possible now. Police actually questioned Rifkin from behind bars about his thoughts on the Long Island serial killer, and Rifkin replied it would probably be someone like a landscaper, a contractor, or a fisherman. And we'll see later in this episode if Rifkin was right. Now, here's just another little tidbit of information, something I didn't know. It doesn't have

really anything to do what we're talking about. But Rifkin's last known victim was a sex worker named Tiffany Bresciani, who, at the time she was killed, was in a relationship with a guy named Dave Rubinstein, also known as Dave Insurgent, the singer and co founder of the punk band Reagan Youth, who I still listen to today. I thought that was crazy. Don't know them? Yeah, really good? Check him out. So Joel Rifkin could

have possibly been responsible for some of those earlier murders. He was a torso he was in the area he was cutting up women as possible. Here's another Long Island serial killer I hadn't heard of before. His name is Robert Schulman, a postal worker from Hicksville on Long Island. Schoulman was convicted of murdering and dismembering five women, including sex workers, between nineteen ninety one and nineteen ninety six, and dumping parts of their bodies in trash bins all around Long

Island. He was known for smoking a ton of crack with prostitutes that he brought back to his house, after which he would beat them to death with barbells, bats, and hammers. Then he would chop them up and scatter the pieces. Now, coincidentally, Shulman and Rifkin were operating in Long Island at the same time. Therefore, Shulman could also be responsible for murdering Peaches

and her daughter. Timeframe fits. Then we have John Bittrolf yet another convicted murderer that may be responsible for one or more of the unsolved deaths connected to Gilgo Beach. Now John Bittrolf is a fifty seven year old carpenter, husband

and father from Manorville, Long Island. Remember Jessica Taylor's torso was found in Manerville in two thousand and three, and her head and forearm were found at Gilgo Beach in two thousand and one, and Valerie Max's remains were also found dismembered in Manerville in two thousand and her skull and foot were found in a

plastic bag off Ocean Parkway near Gilgo Beach in twenty eleven. Now Bitchrolf has been in prison since twenty seventeen, when he was convicted of killing by strangulation two prostitutes named Rita Tangretty and Colleen mcnamie back in nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety four, and then dumping their bodies in the same area on Long Island's south shore. Tan Gretty was dumped in each East Patchog, which is thirty five minutes from Gilgo Beach, and McNamee was dumped in North Shirley, Long

Island about forty minutes from Gilgo Beach. So if you think about it, since this guy was active from the mid nineties and wasn't caught until twenty fourteen, any of the victims we've discussed so far could be one of Bitchroll's. Well he wasn't for two victims, right right, officially evidentially, Yeah, even though we probably did more, we just don't know. They can't prove it. But he did. Yeah, I mean both of the I mean, his what he's caught for. I mean the way he dumped the bodies

were. He dumped them close not there, but close ish to the sites that we're investigating here. And he was from Manerville where two torsos were found, right crazy, it seems like it both like means like, oh yeah, definitely it could be this guy. But also it creams what I mentioned in the first episode, in part one of this, I mean in the last episode where I talked about the fact that all these spots look juicy to dump bodies, I mentioned that how it looks like an easy thing. It

looks like a serial killer's white dream. As far as dumping evidence or our bodies in general. I mean, and you know, the ocean cleans.

All right, I feel like it could go both ways, and I feel like more like the latter in my case, Like it feels like like this guy took advantage of something, see something that like that looks pretty hard to investigate and there I'm pretty sure they can't find shit there, you know, and took advantage of the fact that being born there, being raised there in Manorville, that he could get away with throughout dumping bodies in there and not

saying there isn't more. It seems like we should just scour this entire area all the time. You can find a lot more. Probably, well, like they do. Remember we covered Aokigahara, the forest, the Sea of Tree. How they have regular patrols looking for suicide victome. Yes, I mean, I think we should just have that for this area because this guy. I mean, like I said before, it looks like a juicy spot to drop dumb bodies. And we're sure we're focusing on a few of them

right now. But I'm not surprised that there was more. That there was more, That there are more people in jail because they dumped their bodies there. Yeah, and don't forget Neil falls up in Manorville. He put the bodies in the pine barrens. Pine barrens are notorious for being a mob dumping ground. That's why way heard a party like, oh yeah, people are bodies the pine Baron's a Jersey devil. Supposed he hangs out in the pine beards. So yeah, weird, weird? Could be him? Right?

Could be him? Could him? I'm throwing cameras on every tree and the pine barns. Yeah, I think I think Richard Klinsky, the iceman, used to dump bodies in the pine b Yeah. Now, if it wasn't Bitchrill, it definitely could have been this next guy. Now, the next person I want to talk to, the last serial killer I want to talk about, is a man named Neil Falls. Now, Neil Falls is really interesting. This is a guy that moved around a lot, and wherever he

moved, dead prostitutes tended to follow. Falls had interactions with police in at least twenty states. WHOA, it wasn't anything serious, but mostly traffic stops, but it shows that Falls traveled extensively. It's thought that Neil Falls is responsible for murdering at least at least ten sex workers between ninety two and twenty

fifteen. Falls was living in Henderson, Nevada in the year two thousand, which is significant because we have the dismemberment killings of Las Vegas sex workers between three and seven. That would be Lindsay Marie Harry, who disappeared from Henderson, Nevada, where he was living in two thousand and five and whose legs wound up in divern in Illinois. Victoria Kamara, who's dismembered just outside Las Vegas in two thousand and three. She was found dismembered just outside Las Vegas

in two thousand and three. Jodi Brewer, who disappeared from Vegas in two thousand and three and was found dismembered in the Mohave Desert, Jessica Harris, who disappeared from North Las Vegas in two thousand and six with a fat unused bank account and this day hasn't been found. And Misty Says, whose dismembered remains were found at Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area in two thousand and three.

These are just the women we've talked about who could also be victims of the Long Island serial Killer, like where Neil falls in the Long Island Serial Killer intersect, proving that there may be more than one serial killer. Now, as for Falls, we'll never know how many women he killed or how many of his victims are still out there waiting to be discovered. And it's not like authorities can question him. Betty yet put a torch to his ball

to make him talk. Can't be done, because this motherfucker is dead as a doornail. In just a hilarious twist of fate, Neil Falls was killed by a prostitute he was trying to kill nice. Now, back in July of twenty fifteen, Falls responded to an ad on backpage posted by a woman named Heather Saul. The two agreed on a price for services, and Fall headed over to Heather's place. This is in West Virginia, where Falls was

living at the time. Now, he shows up at the house and within seconds of Heather opening the door, he brandishes a gun, sticks it into her gut and says live or die with a fucking cliche, asshole. And at that Falls attacks Heather Saw beats her up really badly. Her shoulder gets

separated, he breaks some of her vertebrae. He's choking her out. She really should have died that night, but instead, Heather grabbed a rake, and when Falls he dropped his gun to try and get the rake away from Heather, she grabbed the and she fired a single shot kind of like over her shoulder, hitting Fall right in his stupid fucking head and killed them instantly. Now, when police showed up, they discovered a number of really scary things. For one, Falls had no money on him. He wasn't going

there to exchange money for sex. He was going there to kill Heather, right, But he came in basically started right away exactly. They found four pairs of handcuffs in his pockets, and they found a handwritten list of back page sex workers along with their contact information, a hit list in other words. Now, in the trunk of Falls's car, police found a kill kit containing knives, a shovel, a machete, several axes, a fucking sledge hammer, a pair of hiking boots covered in dirt, trash bags, bleach,

and other cleaning supplies. And of course, when police began to investigate this guy's background, they start to piece together that wherever Falls lived, women would disappear. And so far from what I know, police in Las Vegas, Texas Florida, Ohio, West Virginia, and Long Island are all looking into Falls as a possible suspect in a ton of cold cases where sex workers

have gone missing and wound up dead. Now, unfortunately, not a lot has been released on Falls and his possible connection to the women we've been talking about, Like if his DNA is linked to any of our victims. We don't know yet. Hopefully we'll know more soon. But there's no question that Heather Saw she's a hero who saved countless women's lives by killing this piece of shit. And so you know, the shooting was deemed justified. Heatherre was

not charged in any crime. That's good. You know this guy, I mean, it feels like, I mean, we almost could have done a show about him. He's pretty prolific. I guess there's not a lot of information out there on him, yeah, at all, because he's dead, Well, because he's dead, but not saying much. I'm sure we can find about the guy a little way. I don't know, maybe not. He was a wanderer, he didn't stay in one place long at all. No mad Atlantahah yep, wow, which makes him so dangerous. Yeah,

I think pretty dangerous, you know, but do you? But we It's funny how we don't have a lot of information. It's twenty fifteen, this little while ago now, not too long ago yet, but long enough. We're like, I feel like if he was connected, or if it was that his living situation corresponded with a few other disappearances across the country, I feel like that would have been released by now. Well do you think it's

not holding him back? I don't know. Investigations take a long time, DNA takes a long time analyzing, and I figure they everyone, everyone involved, his dad, especially because this guy's dad, they can take their time with it. That could be too that's the scenario here, just like the attic or cleaning the the basement, something you don't ever think about because you

don't have to. I think if he's found to be connected to the Long Island serial killer case, so I think we'd find out about that, just because it's in the news now. But those other cases, I don't know. I don't know if we'll find out right. I wish I could make the call. But see again, I think I think will always be kind of interesting, not a rush, but serious and important because these sex workers have families, you know'd be nice to see what happened. I'm with you,

I'm with you, but but I guess not. Uh, it's so strange that this guy comes out of nowhere that we know nothing about under the radar. Yeah, that's pretty cool, pretty cool, bad not like like it's kind of like insane that that could still happen. And you know, it just feels insane that cool like ends. Then it's fascinating that a guy that could exists in our day. Yep. I mean this guy be caught for a while apparently, Yeah, for a long time. When did he

start? We don't know, right, I don't know, we don't know, right, shit, we know shit, But man, scary, she killed them. It's pretty scary. We don't know any terrifying. Yeah, and she killed him and just just a pot shot and it hit hit him in the head. Jesus, that's providence a little bit. Yeah, there's some divine intervention there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, she should have been dead. I say he's the most I like him the most out of these

one you know, these other serial killers. I like him the most a little bit because I mean, his methodology is not entirely known well, but it fits some of it, enough of it. Maybe I don't know sledgehammers, xes, well, I assumed to break your body down Jesus, so he would be a torso killer. Maybe yeah, maybe not a trophy killer so much based on the weapons he had. Yeah, maybe that's safe to say. Glad he's gone fuck him? Yeah, fuck that guy. Oh

yeah, yeah, fuck that guy. I hope he's getting raped by demons in hell right too. Anyway, So that ends the theories portion of the story. Is it, you know, someone connected Joe Brewer's house, some unknown person from Joe Brewer's house sex parties? Is it a murderous psychopathic cop. Is it a whacked out doctor? Is it, you know, one of these four serial killers. Let's get jump off the theories. Now, let's talk about reality. Before we finally discussed the real suspect, the one

authorities having custody. Right now, I want to talk about how we got here, how police finally apprehended the suspect. Now, keep in mind, as we already discussed, the Suffolk County Police didn't do the best job solving the murders. Hell Police Chief James Burke single handedly set the investigation back years

trying to hide his own egregious misdoings. Whatever those misdoings were. It wasn't until February fifteenth, twenty twenty two, when Suffolk County Police Chief Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison, the fifth Suffolk County Police Commissioner to oversee the Long Island seriesial killer case, announced the creation of a brand new task force comprised of homicide detectives, the FBI, the Suffolk County DA, and the Suffolk County Sheriff's

Office. The formation of this task force represented the first time federal, state, and local agencies jointly dedicated investigators to solving the Long Island serial killer case, utilizing new scientific techniques to advance the investigation, as well as collaboration on evidence gathered throughout the decades. Commissioner Rodney Harrison made it his mission to bring the Long Island serial killer to justice, and it looks like he may have

done just that as a result of some fantastic detective work. In March twenty twenty two, an investigative team found the dark green first generation Chevy Avalanche, which presumably is the same dark green Avalanche that picked up Amber Costello from her home in West Babylon on September in twenty ten, the night shot missing.

By finding the avalanche, investigators were able to find who it was registered to, and through credit card transactions, cell phone purchases, and cell tower data, a picture started to emerge and a man named Rex Andrew Huerman was placed under surveillance for almost a year. Then, on January twenty sixth, twenty twenty three, an astute surveillance team observed Rex Hewerman tossing a pizza box into a garbage can located in front of a building at three eighty five Fifth Avenue

in Manhattan. The pizza box was quickly recovered and DNA was taken from uneaten pizza crust. This is like you could see in a fucking movie. The DNA from Heuerman's pizza crust and DNA from the Caucasian male hair found at the bottom of the burlap used to wrap Megan Waterman's body. But we gotta go back to the last episode listeners. They were a match and excluded ninety nine point ninety six of the North American population from being the owner of the male

hare found on Megan. It's fucking Huerman detectives built their case, and on July thirteenth, twenty twenty three, they arrested Rex Huerman without incident as he was casually walking down the street in midtown Manhattan. Reports say that Huerman asked why am I being arrested? And then he asked for a lawyer, and after he has read as Miranda rights, he's been sitting in the sixty square foot cell in Suffolk County Correctional Facility ever since. So who is this Rex

Hireman? Well, our boy, Rex is a fifty nine year old white guy from Massapequa Park, New York, which is in Nassau County on the south shore of Long Island, just six miles from Gilgo Beach and approximately three miles from the Dafeo House in Amityville. Sorry, I had to slip that in there. Police reports say that Rex stand and six feet six inches tall, damn and weighs two hundred and seventy five pounds. Is Viking. He is a beast. I think he's taller man. He looks taller to me

because we're sure that's why. Now Ogrish is the term that keeps getting thrown around to describe this guy, right like how Dave Shaler described the client that visited Amber Costello. So Goliath has to beat him, right, right, David Belie, I mean David has to beat him. But that's how Dave Shaller described him. That's the one that when he visited Amber Costello right before

she disappeared from her home in West Babylon. If you remember from the last episode, Schaller described this client as large, white and ogrish, approximately sixty four to six six in height in his mid forties, which Hreman would have been in twenty ten when Costilla went missing, with dark, bushy hair and big oval style nineteen seventies type classes. What is it with murderers in these big thick nineteen seven from Minehunter? He had those big kind of glasses.

To you, he was like the main seal killer that they portrayed in that show, which again is Bason a real guy with the bird. There was another big guy ball I think white. It's it's on the tip of my tongue. I told you, on the tip of my tongue too. Boo. I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but yeah, big Oval nineteen seventies type classes. All these fucking serial killers have those glasses and Heureman does in fact have dark, bushy hair and he wears glasses.

Human is also a husband and a father. He was married to a woman named Asa Ellerup for twenty five years, and she filed for divorce shortly after Rex was arrested. And he's got two kids, a daughter named Victoria twenty six and a step son named Christopher thirty three who's developmentally disabled. And apparently Rex went to high school with actor Billy Baldwin. So there's that kemper

by the way ed ed kemper. That's it. That's it, and believe it or not, Rex Human is an architect and he owned his own firm called our Age Consulting and Associates, which is located in midtown Manhattan right by the Empire State Building Wow. And he included American Airlines, Target, Nike foot Locker, and the New York Department of Environmental Protection among his clients. So he wasn't some fly by night guy. He had some big clients that

he worked with. He was a well established architect. And if you remember, go back a few minutes ago when we talked about Joel Rifkin, when the police questioned Joe Rifkin from behind bars and his opinion. He's a construction worker, a landscaper or something like that. Architect pretty all of them too. It's in the ball to deal with landscapers and other people. I mean, they're like more had hancho ish, but they they fucking know that.

Also they care about feet separation and perfect you know, saying feet that's true that I thought you meant cut off of feet. I'm sorry, Oh wow, I know that's sure. That wouldn't that was literally you went for good thing. Were gonna call it the thirty eight penises supposed to feet anyway, But I'm saying it makes a little more sense the symmetry of the bill the Gill go for. That's a good point. You know, he's a very

mathematical brain. My grandfather was an architect and he did throngings like that. He was very methodical about it. Wow, that's a great point. I didn't think of that. Good point. Not that I'm an expert, my grandfather was not. No, but still that makes sense about the spacing out. Interesting also, three twenty feet two hundred and twenty feet on those other murders, murders, oh, the ones in New Jersey, No Ocean View. No wasn't the ocean was. The Gilgo ones were five hundred feet.

There was one set of murder the feet behind that hotel outside of Atlantic City. That was them. That was them. Okay, yeah, and there were four of them right, and they weren't dismembered. No interesting, interesting, so Urge Consulting now now the company. Rex's company website is no longer active, of course, but I was able to find a version of his company website on the wayback Machine, and I left a link in the show notes. So if you want to click around an accused serial murders website,

eat your heart out. I flipped through the site and I got to say it was a little creepy seeing, you know, Rex's contact information and his photos of his projects and reading about his achievements. I don't know why, but it just really kind of gave me the creeps. Oh yeah, because you're now. As a matter of fact, I want to play a clip oscar of Rex Huerman being interviewed by a YouTuber named Antoine Amera about Rex's architectural

business. Now. Amera runs a YouTube channel called Bonjoor Realty, and he did a one on one interview with Rex in twenty twenty two at the Rig Consulting and Associate's office in Manhattan's recent Yeah, exactly just before he was caught ask your can we play that clip please? Yeah? Okay. Anyway, let's dive in. So tell us you know who you are, where you're from, and how long you've been in New York. Okay, Rex Hureman, I'm an architect. I'm an architectural consultant. I'm a troubleshooter. Born

and raised on Long Island. Okay, been working in Manhattan since nineteen eighty seven. Oh wow, very long time. Okay, So this brings directly to my first question. So, you know, can you explain to our audience what is it that you do, not the architect part of your business, but the other part of the business, which is my understanding that you're

kind of a facilitator with the Department of Building. Is that correct? But please tell us that's correct, but much more Okay, when I asked a much more mean, I do trouble shooting, architectural trouble shooting and negotiations with the building Department. What I mean by that is, do we do the

standard stuff with the building department? Handle your filings. I have other clients who are a lot of other architects, and we'll handle their interactions with the building department, especially out of city architects, because they're a little afraid of the city. And when a job that should have been routine suddenly becomes not routine, I get the phone call. Gotcha, whether it's an old building and they need somebody to understands and can maneuver the nineteen thirty eight building code

or the current building code. You look surprised when I say nineteen thirty eight building code. I've actually used the nineteen oh one old tenement laws here in the City of New York, and you can legally do so, all right. My last question, if you were a tool or an object to help you in your uh, to help you to bring your business to greater heights, what would it be. That's an interesting question, I know, because for what I do, we have to have so many tools in the toolbox.

Just want just one, just want or an object. You just have to be a tour You can be a nubject, you know what I know? All right. One of the things I learned from my father was furniture building. He was an aerospace engineer and built satellites and runs into and build furniture at home, and I still build it in the same exact workshop. So I have one tool that's pretty much using almost every job, and it's actually a cabinet maker's hammer. Kivy oh okay, kevy dates maker hammer.

Okay. It is persuasive enough when I need to persuade something, not someone something, and it always yields excellent results. And at the end of the project, whatever piece of furniture or what I'm working on, it always helps it come out beautifully. Okay, great, So you would be kind of a that kind of hammer for your uh, for your business, that's what

you're saying. Yeah, there's an exist that's what you would do. Sometimes I have to be the heavy framing hammer, other times something lightweight hammer, just to nudge things along. All right, I guess it's a hammer. It is so fucking chilling to hear Rex talk business so fluently and matter of factly, while behind the businessman demeanor. Sits this raging homicidal animal allegedly,

right, gotta say allegedly, a raging homicidal animal. And I'll tell you when a Mira asks his final question, what tool Rex would be to help improve his business, and Rex answers a cabinet maker's hammer because it could be persuasive. My fucking blood ran cold. And then Rex goes on to say

how he uses that tool in almost every job. I think Rex was letting a little of his dark side slip through, kind of like playing with the mirror without a mirror, even right, right, right, right right, I'd be more fucked up by more accurate to say, like, oh, handcuffs obviously, duhoy in a mirror. He's such a weird interviewer. I'll

leave a link to the whole interview in the show notes. Okay, he just all he does is like nervous, like you try to make it when you're interviewing someone, you kind of laugh at what they say to kind of have you interviewed people, I mean for this show, you have, right, a couple of times we've done it. It's a little hard to get a little thing on it, especially if you're not sure it is. But this face on the subject, he laughs, uncomfortable, awkward, laughing,

very awkwardly. Yeah, Like Rex doesn't say anything fucking funny at all, and a mirror laughs. He just it's kind of well, I think it might be it's because this guy is Goliath. This guy is uh, this guy is a big guy. It's a mountain. He's the Mountainer from Game of Thrones. Yeah, kind of you know what I'm saying, Like, I mean, you see perk Walk, it might be hard on I don't know how I would react to. I don't know. You know what I'm

saying. You'll see perk walk photos, perp walk photos of Rex among the you know, a couple of cops. Yeah, he towers over. He's got course, of course, that's what I'm saying. He's got to be taller than six six. But yeah, I just think because you know Ameras, he's foreign, I think he's proof that there are giants. Honestly,

sorry, So it's just it's uncomfortable. It's kind of sweet. Yeah, you can tell he's like nervous, but he's trying to get to his interviews to be at ease, So he's laughing even when things that aren't funny air Anyway, just watch the video you'll see what I'm talking about. But of course, Amera himself has been interviewed about his interaction with Rex. Now that everything's come out, and what he recalls most about heroman is his imposing presence.

Not an intimidating presence, Amira said, but just this very large, imposing presence because Rex is a large guy, right the ogre. Yeah. That and Rex's handshake, Amera said, shaking Rex's hand was like shaking hands with a slab of marble. Just an impossibly strong hand handshake. That's such a strangulation made for hand Yeah. And of course Amir also commented on how detail oriented Rex was. Kind of that goes back to how you're saying,

the methodical placing of these bodies detail oriented. Yeah. So again, listeners are left a link to this entire interview in the show notes, as well as there's a photograph in the show notes of Rex and Antoine taking selfies together in sunglasses. Check out. It's very disturbing. Yeah, so go check

that out. And since we're talking business, believe it or not, according to these net worth websites where you could look up how much money people got as of this year, Rex Hureman is apparently worth between three and seven million dollars. How about that. That's all we really know about this guy.

Not much information is coming out right now, we know Rex Huerman is being charged with first degree murders in the death of Marie excuse me, Melissa Bartholemy on or around July tenth, two thousand and nine, Megan Watermen on or around June sixth, twenty ten, and Amber Costello on or around September second, twenty ten. He's also being charged with murder in the second degree for the deaths of Bartholomy, Waterman, and Costello. Not Maureene, not Marine.

Right, he hasn't been charging her death, but Rex, according to authorities, is the prime suspect in her murder. Authorities say Marine's death will be resis soon and that there is substantial evidence of human's involvement in her death, including them fitting that of the other three women found a call go for which he is the call one. Yes. What's the difference between accused and charged? Like? I don't get it, like the first and second degree?

No? No, no, no, because earlier you said that he was accused and sitting in jail, but it's allegedly still so he's not charged. No, he's simply he's accused. How does that work? How can he hold someone that isn't charged? I am I not understanding something. I guess there's ample and evidence to hold him, but they're just looking for the smoking gun that says he did it. So there's enough evidence to hold him

despite the DNA. So that's that's probably one big one that's keeping them behind bars, his DNA, right, because you know, they got him five present this kind of thing with the judge, and the judge is like, oh, okay, yeah, keep this fucking guy in right, Okay, it's got to be the DNA that's holding it up, that's hooking him. I mean, that's the strongest thing I can think of. Yeah, that and whatever else they found in his house, which I'll get to, Okay,

go ahead. So yeah, so there he is. He's sitting first and second degree murders. Of course, Human's lawyer entered a plea of not guilty, and he requested bail, but thankfully, a judge denied the bail request, citing the extreme depravity of Rex's alleged crimes and because Rex definitely has the means to flee money. Yes, and fun fact, because he also has two hundred and ninety seven guns stashed at his house in Massapeeko Park and

only ninety two of those are permitted registered by the way. Wow, So there's no telling what Rex would do if he got out on bail and got access to this weapon statue. Right, it could be like one of those things where they go after him and he holds off and shoots everyone. Well, and that's exactly why police wanted to arrest him outside of his home. Oh they knew that, going. Oh yeah, yes, if you look into a guy, Pike can tell it. Oh, this guy's registered for

ninety two guns, right right, Okay, got it. Because there's just no telling what he might do if he was cornered at home with that number of weapons atroposals. Get him out there, get him out in the world where he doesn't have access. So of course no bail was set for Rex, thank god. Now in July fourteenth, twenty twenty three, the day after Hueman was arrested, detectives executed search warrants at his Massupeico Park home and

at his Manhattan office. Now, unfortunately, not a lot of information has come out regarding exactly what, if anything, was found inside Rex's home that ties them to the Long Island serial killer case. Was there any evidence that victims were brought to the house, or any of them killed inside the home

was Rex keeping trophies. We just don't know yet. We do know that a shit ton of weapons were found, and a portion of those weapons were found in Rex's basement in what's described as a walk in vault with a big iron door. Now, a lot of speculation surrounds this vault. Some said it was actually a sound proof room, which drove the Internet nuts because now Rex had a spot inside at his home where he could have murdered women undetected,

and somewhere he could have even kept bodies. But his wife Asa insists to the media that this soundproof room is simply a six foot safe used for storing guns. Again, we just don't know. Rex's backyard was excavated and media drone footage, so reporters are actually flying drones. They caught investigators huddled around some strange objects unearthed during this dig, but based solely on this drone footage, experts can't agree what those objects are the human bones, animal remains,

animal remains are something else. Entirely, we know cops found and seized the Chevy Avalanche and sees a bunch of playboys. They also sees two very strange items. One is what's described as a child sized doll encased in wood and glass, and the other is a painting of a woman with a battered face. Now, I left photos of the doll and the painting in the show notes. And what these items mean to the investigators, we don't know. But they took them. They took them mean something to them. It

does, it does. I also heard they took like a cat scratching post, like a play Yeah, there's posts and little platforms and little bucket things they could sleep, and they took one of those or multiple of those, I guess, And I'm guessing it's to see if there's animal hairs on the bodies that were found that match Rex's animals. It's only that makes sense to me. But a painting and a glass, a doll in glass, it's

weird. Yeah. And after a nearly two week search of Rex's property, that's how long they were in his house, all the police really say is that the search was fruitful and that they've collected massive amounts of evidence. Damn boys. Well, unfortunately all this evidence got to bealogue thoroughly analyzed, so unfortunately it'll probably be forever until we know exactly that all this was seen this year, yes, a few months ago. Yeah, this is not an

old case, guys. They have not gonna really shit, not for a while, not for a while, and not even like the day after he gets convicted for real, put to jail. It'll be like still after a while after that, probably is it. Yeah, yep. So you know, it's gonna take us a while to find that stuff out. And nothing has been said about his office in Manhattan, so I don't know if they actually found anything there or not. There's nothing neither positive nor negative. Nothing.

They just that the art was executed. No word on what they found there, if anything. Speaking of on July sixteenth, there was another warrant executed, this time at a self storage unit in Amityville. Rex rented out this unit and it's located just two miles from his house in Massapeico Park. Now, again, we have no idea why the police went after the storage unit what they might have found there, but multiple articles I've read stated that

police were looking for body parts and trophies in this storage unit. But again, to date, we don't know what, if anything, they found that ties Heromanto along the Yeah, yeah, okay, So what do police have on Rex? They gotta have something to hold them without bail, right, I told you about the items taken from Rex's house. We know they got the Chevy Avalanche. But if anything DNA, which I'll get to. But if anything was found in his truck like DNA from the women, we don't

know. But remember that truck was like the lynchpin because finding the truck got the police a name. It got them the pizza box yea. Since they had the name, police were able to access credit card information which sold purchases, specifically burner phone purchases, and in this case, burner phones are really

important. So let's take a look at that. Rex thought he was really slick when he used these quote unquote untraceable throwaway phones to contact his victims, and really the information authorities were able to gather about these phones, specifically when and where the phone's pinged specific cell towers, along with how Rex's personal phone and victim cell phones also pinged specific cell tours. This information is what really

put the final nails in Rex Heureman's coffin. Now the cell data, it's really involved, and the details could easily be found by googling Rex Hereman's bail application. If you really want to read this in nitty gritty detail, just google Rex Heureman bail application. It's out there. What you need to know is that investigators found no instance where Rex Hereman was in a separate location away from victim cell phones. Whenever taunting calls were made using Marine Brainer's barn cell

phone and Melissa Barthelemy's cell phone. Whenever and wherever a victim's cell phone moved or whenever a burner phone move that was used to communicate with a victim, so did Rex Hureerman's personal cell phone. Like this dumb bastard had a burner phone or a victim's phone in his hand or to his ear while his personal

phone was in his pocket or on the front seat of his car. Try to explain away that one plus nearly all communications Berner phones had with the victims conveniently pinged cell towers in Massapeeko Park, which we now know is where Rex Human lived, Midtown Manhattan, where Rex he Woman worked, Amityville, where rex he Wuman kept a self storage unit, and West Babylon, where Ambi

Costello lived and disappeared. It is It's wonderful or gladdening even to think that this guy once saw a movie about how wonderful burners are, like how glorious they are used for secrecy and then it causes downfall or I'll come, I guess previous and stuff. But yes, wow, it's literally like he was making a taunting call. Yeah, I'm watching your sister rot. Well he's got his fucking personal cell phone in his pocket. Yeah you know. God.

Also, don't buy a bernafone with your credit card. The same cash cash, always cash cash and barter it if you have to, But don't use your fucking don't use something that connects. That's the whole point Yep, how do you not know that? Unbelievable? So Bernafone is very important to the case right right now. What about DNA. In the last episode, we talked about how male and female hair was found on three of the victims

found on Gilgol Beach. Through rigorous DNA testing of the female female hair found on Amber Costello, Megan Waterman and Marine Brainerd Barnes when compared to DNA extracted from bottles taken from Rex Hereman's garbage outside his home, it was determined with over ninety nine percent accuracy that the female Caucasian hairs came from Rex Hereman's wife, Asa Ellerup. Wow. Now, as of today, there's no evidence that Asa participated in any of the murders or that she even knew what her

husband was up to. In fact, a lot of the murders were committed while Asa was verifiably out of New York State on vacation. All we can say right now is that ASA's hair wound up on the three deceased women through an unintentional transfer by Rex. I mean, my wife has really long hair, and it's everywhere. It's on my clothes, in my car, all over the house. So this also means that he maybe brought a few of

the victims home. We're gonna get into that, Okay, Yeah, because yes, I think so, right, because that's whether her or hair would be most that I think so. I could have been in his vehicle, could have been on his clothes, vehicle. I can finally probably find a hair on me right now, that's Katie, So that it's very possible. But I do believe he was bringing him back to the house. Now, if you remember from the last episode, a Caucasian male hair was found at

the bottom of the burlap Megan Waterman was wrapped in. And I mentioned earlier that DNA from Huroman's Peace Crust matched this here with ninety nine point ninety six percent accuracy. And after Rex was arrested, his DNA was swabbed and that DNA result matched the DNA from the pizza crust. Gotcha, bitch, Yeah, that's pretty damning. Okay, so this this part is messed up.

So something else authority is able to figure out. Through a legal process served on Google actually, which sought records and accounts associated with specific Burner phones that Rex purchased, it was discovered that Rex also kept multiple Burner email accounts, specifically an account named Thomas Hawk T Hawk zero eight zero six seven to two at gmail dot com. Now, just so you know, listeners, I did my due diligence and I sent a message to this Thomas Hawk email asking

for Rex's side of the story. And I'm still waiting for a reply. Right, Yeah, You're gonna be weighing a lot for that one. But I did I swear that. Anyway, It's important to note that when Rex was arrested, he had on them the Burner phone associated with this email address,

and the address has been definitively linked to Rex Hureman. When police scoured the Thomas Hawk search history, they discovered that Hawk or Hureman liked to watch videos of women being horrifically tortured, as well as gut wrenching child pornography. Now I have a list of some of the things human search for using this email address, which I found in Rex's bail application. You can find all this, and I'm gonna warn you the shit's pretty rough to hear. Now.

This sick fuck googled things like pretty girl with bruised face, porn torture, redhead porn, ten year old schoolgirl, short, fat girl, tied up porn, tied up in rape porn, chubby ten year old girl, crying the fuck, blonde hair girl, young and depressed teen girl, oiled bodies, teen girl begging for rape porn, hen tie, plump pussy lips, cut off porn, Asian twink, tied up porn, preteen girl with makeup, old janitor's gangbang, little schoolgirl, and crying teen porn. Just

fucking awful. I really click. Something in this list that really sticks out, or should stick out, is that search term Asian twink tied up porn. Remember in the last episode, right, we told you about that unidentified Asian male yep, the outlier. He was described as petite and he was dressed in a woman women's clothes when found, So he perfectly fits this idea of what some would call an Asian twink. So I don't know, you know, this song reminds me of a This made me think of a of

a theory as well these Google searches. For one is that I'm sorry we forgot them all because there's a few of them and it's kind of hard to heal. He I'm not hard to hear, but it's hard to swallow. Like I feel like I remember writing I don't know why I wrote this one, but I remember writing about the peaches. How that felt like that might have been one of his Like, I feel like he's living out, literally a fantasy, which makes sense. That's what seria killers do, live out

their fucked out fantasies, or they try to recreate it. But more importantly is that maybe this killer is actually more of a pedophile than we're giving him credit for. I know that's already worse. This is the worst version of

what he is now. But because of his frame, his size, the reason he searches for petite one hundred pounds solk and what kind of girls is because to him they would be the closest or might as well be children for him, and that because of his frame, he can get away with this much easier than actually trying to kill children who are much more taken care of, protected by society order to get away with those kind of kills, and that this way is much easier, he can fake it. Kind of that's

deep. I thought about that the last episode, Like it's pretty close to the victims. It's much better to get these kind of victims that are ignored but that fit closer to his profile based on these Google searches. Yeah, I mean, think of what Gus Colletti said, right the right the fourteen

year fourteen right, That made me think of that too. Wow. Yeah, maybe what if his searches have nothing to do with necessarily his taste, or it does have to do his taste, but it has to do with the fact that he is like he is finding a facsimile version of what he really wants, which is children, or like, let's just go with tweens. Maybe very interesting. That's an interesting one. I haven't seen that one yet. That theory, that's very interesting. That's what I have. Disgusting,

it's horrifying, man. Yeah, it's not good, not good at all. Nothing is good, not good, Bob. In these two episodes all right now, in addition to Rex's disgusting internet searches, he also obsessively searched the names Megan Waterman, Amber Costello, Melissa Barthelemy Marine, Brainerd Barnes, John Bittrolf, one of the serial killers we just talked about. And he searched the terms the Long Island serial killer and why hasn't the Long Island

serial killer big caught? Among other things. Can you very quickly tell me ask Skinny on John Berthrow Petrol Beetroll was the one from Manerville who dismembered prostitutes. Okay, thank you, no no problem. This is unbelievable. There's even video surveillance footage of Rex in a cell phone store in midtown Manhattan,

adding minutes to the burner phone used to authenticate the Ta hockey melases. You just think that everything in mentime is not at all remotely like surveyed he's like, he's like your grandmother, like trying to get on the Internet and stumble around the Internet and shit at it. I could open a folder, look what I could do. Yeah, I'm a hacker. I got burner phones. I'm never gonna get caught. Fuck you. Yeah, yeah, it

does seem that way. He seems. I mean he's great, thank god, because ever he's smart about it. Right, No, right, So let's talk about rex Huerman's connection to Las Vegas, because if you remember from the last episode, we told you about five murdered sex workers found dumped in

the desert surrounding Vegas. That would be Victoria Kamara, found in Boulder City, Lindsay Marie Harris, who disappeared from Henderson, Nevada, and whose legs were found in divern in Illinois, Jody Brewer, whose torso was found wrapped in cloth and plastic in the Mohave Desert, Jessica Foster who's never been found, and there was Misty Says whose partial remains were found wrapped in plastic in

cloth near the Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area. Now coincidentally, rex Huerman owned timeshare properties in and around Las Vegas since two thousand and four, and of course, between two thousand and three and two thousand and six we have these five cases of murdered sex workers being dumped in the desert in areas that are actually eerily similar to the remoteness of Ocean Parkway over on Long Island.

Now, according to public records, Hureerman owns a two bedroom timeshare at Club Dissolas, located at five four ninety nine West Tropicana Avenue, about three miles west of the Vegas Strip, which he bought with his wife in two thousand and five. Hureman previously owned a timeshare at two six' five East Harmon Avenue, just east of the Vegas Strip, which he bought in two thousand

and four and sold in twenty thirteen. Now you tell me, Oscar, does the fact that Hureman owned property in Vegas prove he's the Long Island serial killer? No, what it does is that it makes more sense to look into that. It's circumstantial as fuck, right, Yes, just another piece

of the puzzle that could help hang this guy. It's this part of the thing you mentioned before about them you mentioned before I think either this episode last episode, Sorry about how the police are looking into DNA about these cases based on the guy they just accused, or they have to see if these the

DNA matches other murderers, murders in Vegas specifically. Yes, they're testing also testing right, right, right, right, so we'll see, right that could I could bring up a few maybe that's what, if anything, Maybe the longevity of his accusedness whatever it's called, right might speak into like how much should they're gathering, Like Jesus, this guy's popping up everywhere. That could be a thing too. I know it's very recent and the law moves

very slowly, the wheels of justice go very slowly. But uh so it could be any reason why. But I'm saying that could that could be one, right mm hmm. I don't know. Do you think he did the Vegas stuff? Personally? I think it's I think it's a very real possibility. Yeah, he was there. He was there during the time. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go with the light. Yes, yeah, did you say a light? Yes? Yes, yeah, I'm gonna go with the light, yes, the light. Yes. It's because I'm not convinced.

And Jessica foster O come because she's all she yes, is missing. And and from what I remember from the notes I took really so I could have gotten wrong, is that I didn't see any a lot, like a lot of history of her prostitute. She was going to a dentist appointment. Yeah, give me see, she wasn't working, she had money, she was going to dentists. You I'm saying she wasn't working and she had twenty five K. There's no body that the money hasn't moved either, which makes

sense. I'm saying that the murder have it because of her. They wanted her, but like it doesn't fit the profile for me. Interesting, So I don't think she's a part of this. I blame more the pamp or the friend that got her into the whatever it was, the Canadian guy or whatever, like that was her. Right, There's so many, Yeah, there's so many. I would have to go back. Like even Lindsay kind

of gives me a little bit of things. Also Vegas, Lindsay Apgarta lasting she had a rental car, which makes a little sense if she's traveling. There are sex workers that travel to different cities to spread their wares, have something new or part of their vacation could be a lot of reasons why, But I'm not saying I don't think that's her and she was going to the bank. Yeah, that's right, that's right. Again, that doesn't fit. This guy calls them, he searches for them, calls them. Yeah.

No, I think a smart serial killer a smarter serial killer, because let's face it, this Rex guy not that smart, not that smart as smart as he thinks he is. Anyway, he seems like one of those guys like he thinks he's smart, but he's not really. I think that a smarter version of this guy would could call a service, call a call

girl. Right, I'll call a sex worker and either meet them or not, either cancel or not, but get enough information about maybe whether at getting that phone number through some sort of texting back and forth, emailing back something to get information on them and then tail them to get them later. That's

a smarter version of doing this kind of thing. I'm not saying that this guy is doing that with his hack getting them at the dentists appointment or at a bank, But based on every other murder, not the case doesn't seem right to me. You make a good point, right, Yeah, not having the body definitely makes this harder. Yeah right, right, so fuck the desert is a big place. That's a big there's a lot of bodies out there. And then you know, her phones haven't been used, her

credit card he hasn't been used. The bank account has been touched. Unfortunately, it all points so she's gone. She's dead. But yeah, whether it was Rex, I don't know. I'm with like Victoria the artist, a seventeen year old that fits for me. That makes sense to me. It could be him, for sure, but not not so much. Even Jody is a little weird. Her cuts, we're clean, Like, how do we That's the only one we know whose tool they use. That's right,

they said they used a surgical saw. Now yeah yeah, yeah, And that to me, that doesn't sound like the Gilgo guy. That doesn't sound like him either, sounds like someone who lives there and has that with him. Who care? Who travels with that around? Well? You know who had a ton of instruments? Was that Neil Falls guy? That's I can see him. I mean you can say I know nothing about the guy. I can see that guy more than the guy who's we do know about

Breck specifically. God, I hope we find out soon. I hope something I need to know. Fuck, I need to know. Yeah, sounds like that Mark Anthony song. I need to know. Could we plug that in right here? Yeah? Yeah, I don't know. The next line something baby out of needs to I don't know, he says the uh. But here's the thing about so I have another question? Oh wa, yeah, we done? No, we're not. You have more, Julia, Okay, go ahead, Sure, I'm trying to get to the end here,

I promise. But since all this stuff about Huroman has been hit in the media, people are seeing it right, and it's been triggering these memories of interactions people have had with Rex or with some of the victims, and people are coming forward with some pretty crazy stories. Now, I've chosen five witness stories to share with you that have come to light recently, and let's

see. Let's see if you think this is damning evidence. Now, these are five different women that have come forward who claim to have had strange and even frightening interactions with Rex heremen. One may even lead to another body. Two of them are Two of the women are prostitutes, three or not. Two of the women have signed affidavits swearing their stories are true. Three have

not yet they may. One of the women, a prostitute who hasn't submitted a sworn affidavit but swears her story is true, claims that Rex Hueman picked her up in his truck in Queen's. He drove her to a park, had her perform oral sex on him, after which he pulled the gun and said get out of the car or I'm gonna kill you. The woman panics, she gets out of the car, and Rex says, do exactly what

I say, or I'll kill you. He then tells the woman she's gonna be picked up by another client, and almost immediately another suv pulls up and the woman gets in. All we really know about this second vehicle is the driver is a black guy, and that when the truck drives away, Rex followed them. Now the woman, our witness senses she's in real danger here. And as they're driving to god knows where, for God knows what second

location. Second never go to the second location, you know, and Rex is trailing them, our witness, she sees a cop so she grabs this steering wheel and she yanks it to the side, which causes this truck to just suddenly just swerve to a side, which grabs a CoP's attention and the

scuv gets pulled over. Now, a cop talks to this new guy, the black guy, and to Rex, and he ultimately tells our witness if she wants to file a complaint against these two, she has to go down to the police station to do it, and then the cop just drives away. We don't know what was said between the cop and Rex and this other driver, but thankfully the woman lived and she refuses to go on record about the incident, but she swears it's true. Now I find the story compelling

because there's two people. There's two guys, Rex and this other driver, which begs the question did Rex have an accomplice? Why did Rex pass this woman off to someone else and then follow them? What did they have planned for her? Also, this incident, if it's true, shows that Rex used guns to subdue and manipulate his victims, even though none of the women we talked about had gunshot wounds. This interaction does give us a little more

insight into how Rex operated, how he hunted. Is the gun the cabinet maker's hammer he referred to in the interview at Antoinamera, that special tool he uses in every job. God knows he had enough guns, right, right, I think right, the fact that he has like two hundred plus guns does this well. Like also, it feels like it doesn't need it. It's a giant fucking duce. But you're right, the gun is the safest way to get something faster as far as having a victim or hostage or whatever.

So yes, I completely about it. Again, his gun knowledge or his gun collection. I think it's compelling to see that he might have an accomplice because, I mean, we don't know what he means. If the story is true that this guy is there, it could just be a one off. I have no idea, We have no idea we could go anywhere

on this, but like it's shady for sure. And I think at the worst case, if he had an accomplice, it might explain the Torso Torso killer behavior going on in the in places but where he's around, and may explain that that's what this guy likes to do. And like, meanwhile, he's like sitting there, like I like, my girl's facing east five hundred pet apart and you like and whole right, you like, you know, fucking heads there and shit like that. Like, fine, just go on

Ocean View. I'll go here. I don't know a right. So they were together working and that's the worst case of this case, right, that's like, that's like the worst way this could work. I don't know if they flip a coin, like I get this, I get this girl, you get the next one. I don't know. Wow, you know right now, I sound like I'm pitching a Dexter plot to you, the Showtime show Dexter. But that's how ridiculous it feels, as I'm saying it,

but stranger than fiction. Man, this has happened before. Everything happens in Murphy's launch it. She's so lucky though, that thing that was a good move. That was a good move. I mean, that's watching movies right there. I mean that's right out. Also the fact that the cop just laughed and whatever was going on there that, Like I can't understand why she wouldn't want to sign any affid like like I don't trust she don't trust anybody. No, he doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if it's a piece of

paper like doesn't mean anything to her. It just means that you'll get in the warst shit. Probably I can understand her like being like completely precarious or precautious. I want to be the law or not the law about this kind of thing. You don't trust nobody. She could be terrified not trust I can by her not signing AFFIDA, But it doesn't mean much to me other

than the fact that she doesn't trust anyone. Yeah, Or she could be at a completely different stage of her life she doesn't want to be associated with that. Oh that's even either. Yeah, more understanding. So like, but what a strange encounter, man, very strange. Again, it could just be a oneer. What do you think is going on with that guy, the black guy neither truck? You know, I really I kind of like your theory how they're kind of sharing women. Right, it's likes it

one way, this guy likes it another way. Maybe this context text. Yeah, maybe money was exchanged to Rex. If the guy gave money for this prostitute, who knows. But why did Rex follow him? Then? Hard to say. I don't know. Yeah, hop with a disposal, I don't know. Help with the killing, the murder, I don't know. Is there a fledgling murder? Is he like is he his grasshopper? Or is he training him is like, what the fuck? Right? Yeah, it's just so out of them. It's just so out there that it's

hard to grasp what was going on with me? What are my thoughts on? I don't know what they were thinking. I'm kind of hoping that that. I mean a lot of killers love to talk when they're caught. I hope this guy loves I hope it all comes out. So I really hope in five years time we had the full story or something. That'd be kind of cool, because it's been quite it's been pretty quiet. It's quiet, yeah, but it's also driving me. It just happened. You're gonna you

gonna be driven us for a while. I don't know. Have to let that go. A couple of little things are going on. I'll cover that at the very way which we're getting closed. Okay. Now, another sex worker came forward, claiming to have service res over twenty times Wow. She described him as a serial user of prostitutes, sometimes ordering two women at a time and offering often ordering women to his own house while his wife Aesa was

home. Now. According to this witness, who has not signed an affidavid about the story, she claims that Asa his wife was well aware of what Rex was up to with its prostitutes because on one occasion, Asa blamed one of the prostitutes for stealing a clothing iron from her house. So if this is true, this proves Asa knew Rex was bringing prostitutes into their home. This witness also said that Rex was always polite and that he treated her very

well. This is a completely different Rex than we've heard so far, you know, because he'd be the Rex like well, okay, let's suppose that this couple, Asa and Rex are in an open relationship. She knows about it, she's fine with it, maybe not fine with it, but he's living with it. Let's say that right, because there are many kinds of relationships out there at the ethically non monogamous as a real thing. There's many

ways to do polyamorous as a real thing. I'm not saying this is polyamory, by the way, but you know what I'm saying, it's it's it's it's in the same ballpark. Let's say that happens if he treats Maybe he behaves differently at the house when she's around, when she's not on vacation. Maybe he's like different about it. Because again, I don't think she'd be I'm not saying that she she should have. I mean, maybe she should

have been smarter about realizing what's going on. Sure, maybe that, But like as far as like I don't see her being a part of this thing, I can see him totally like playing it up. That's an understanding wife, that's for sure. If that's the case. Yeah, holy shit. Yeah, But I have another story here in a few minutes. We'll see what you think about ASA after that one. But I got one more story

before that one. Okay. Now, this next witness came forward and she did sign an affidavit swearing her story was true, and it's an interesting one. Now, this witness isn't a prob. She's actually a banker by day,

and for extra money, she drives a cab at night. Now, this witness claims that one night in two thousand and nine, she received a call from her dispatcher saying that there was a woman at the Sayville Motor Lodge that needed a ride, but that the woman's locked in a bathroom in the hotel room and she'll only come out when the cab gets there, pulls up,

flashes its lights, and honks its horn a bunch of times. So the driver gets to the hotel, which is in Suffolk County on the south shore of Long Island, and she does the horns and light thing a few times. But the woman the fair, she doesn't come outside. Instead, a giant man that fits the description of Rex Hureman came out of the hotel with his arms blocking his face so the cab driver couldn't see him. The guy runs thro an suv that's parked nearby and he peels off. He takes

off. That's when the woman finally comes out of the hotel room. She's crying, she's shaking, she's obviously incredibly upset. She gets in the cab and our witness the cabby takes the woman to a train station in run Konkama,

Long Island so she could get back to New York City. Now what's crazy is that the cab driver, in a sworn statement, claims that this woman was in fact Shannon Gilbert. During the drive to the train station, Shannon, if it really was Shannon, told the cab driver our witness that she was lured to the hotel under this large man's promise to help her and

her family financially. But she said the envelope the man gave her that appeared to be stuffed with cash when she opened it was actually stuffed with scrap paper. That's when Shannon freaked out and locked herself in the bathroom. Of course, Shannon makes it to the train station and she gets the hell out of town. Now, a little while later, this same cab driver gets a call from her dispatcher saying that there's a man that needs a ride from a

bar. The cab driver pulls up to the location and she sees a huge man dressed in camouflage get up and start lumbering towards the cab. When he gets into the back seat, the witness instantly recognizes this guy as the same guy from the hotel where she picked up Shannon. It's Rex Hureman. Rex tries to get the driver to completely change they agreed upon itinerary, instead insisting

that she take him on a drive in some nearby woods. Of course, the driver absolutely refuses, and Rex gets incredibly upset and he says to the driver, this is a quote I already want to kill you. Just give me a reason. And then he pulled a gun. Now, all this is happening. The dispatcher's here and the whole thing. So he gets on the radio and he says, we see you, we hear you, we know who you are. And at this he panics, he freaks out,

He gets out of the cab, and the witness speeds away. Now, if this is true, if this really happened, it establishes an action between Shannon Gilbert and Rex Huerman. It doesn't prove that Rex killed her, or that Rex was even there the night she went missing. As far as we know, he's never been an official link. There's never been a link between Rex and Oak Beach Association, like the parties at Joe Brewer's house. This could all just be the world's biggest coincidence, but it is circumstantial. I

don't believe that. So I have a big thing on this. You're going to wait, do it now? What's doing now? Okay? So I took I guess, very painfully close because that fucking Nylon one call didn't make sense to me. I got to talk about the nine one one call. Well, this goes back to this is Shannon. This is I was waiting for that after day for this reason. I quote I, I you know

I have a dialogue right here. Okay she Okay, So it's very strange that that Shannon told this cab driver that this guy was helping me financially. Obviously, maybe she doesn't want to admit it could be easily just sociable cue, like she doesn't want to admit, like I pay for sex and he didn't want to pay me. I don't know if she was hiding that fact

or if something else was happening. You know, I mentioned earlier in the first episode, how not Shannon necessarily I might have mentioned over her, but I don't think so with other but with other people that are any one of these victims a connection personally to the killer. Okay, I'm not saying it's true. They could all not be. Most likely they're not. But this weird affidavid fact that she said that and that way she makes me feel strange.

And again I'm not saying because it's that affidavit, I should immediately believe it more. But I do feel like I believe it more. So I'm saying that this versus a cab driver, not normal citizen, quote unquote normal citizen. I'm not doing anything legal, is what I'm trying to say, not shown by society. I like that more. You know what I'm saying. It's two women, Yeah, taking a long drive. One's incredibly upset. They strike up a conversation. I think it's natural. Also pretty smart.

What are you crying about, honey? I mean, I wouldn't trust the bathroom with that frame. But yeah, I guess he couldn't take it down. Maybe I don't know how hard he tried. I'd like it. She's very smart. Just went in there. Immediately, call the thing. Make sure you make the noise, make the honk, the lights. There's witnesses. Yes, I like it a lot. I like that a lot. And then I want to call Yeah. I wrote a few things in quote. So listeners, you got to go back again and listen to that

first episode because we play this what Oscars talking about here? We played for you. Yes, so peace, go back. It's all on the clip that we showed. I did listen to the whole thing. But this is where the real meat and potatoes are. Anyway, what we showed on the show, that makes no sense. It's what I'm talking about here. Quote. This is in the order that she said it to quote. Why do you call me by my name? Oh yeah, why did she say that?

I know, I know, I know, trust me, they don't tell anyone that real nice don't tell you know, they don't tell anyone their real names unless we unless we just don't hear Michael Pack saying come on, Shannon, let's go, and she's like, why are you using my name in front of Joe Brewer? It could be that, right, I did think of that too, but you're right. I was going to go,

why you call my name? Well? And then doesn't she follow it up with like you've been involved the whole time, you've been part of it. I might get there. Oh, I'm getting there. Yes, So actually that reminds me of a question that she just said before. I should have asked before this. Is it verifiable that the other two voices are only Pack

and Brewer? I mean, that's what's in every report, is that that's who you hear in the background, and that it's not like we know if they know, like, we don't know how they know that, right, I'm trying to remember where I read it. Does police force have no fucking clue if they just bought that and they're like, we're just want it done. Yeah, it wasn't in a court document or anything like pretty much. Because you know, when I take facts for stories, I try to cross

reference those fas I know you do three times. I know you do. So if it's repeated three times, I take it as pretty factual, pretty factual. And that's what That's what a lot of the stories say, is that. That's who you hear in the background. One you could tell is Michael Pack because he has an Asian accent. You can tell. I mean, I couldn't really tell. It was hard to hear some of that to really listen to it. But you're right, you can't tell. And some

of them I'm sure I hear. And let's go upstairs from one of the men. Is it upstairs or downstairs? I heard upstairs. It could be downstairs. It's hard to hear. Yeah, I heard upstairs. I could be wrong, but no, you might be right now that I'm thinking about it, and it's in the midst of her like being freaked out, obviously she's calling now on one. I'm hearing this, so like, is it trying to like if it's Brewer trying to stablish his night. If it's not

Brewer, let's say, I initially thought it might be Burke. I'm way less thinking that based on this Affidavid is it racks trying to separate her from the other people. She knows what that means, right anyway going on? Did I just get the fucking goosey? I hope so? And then she asked, what are you gonna do to me? What are you gonna do to me? Are you gonna kill me? I hear that here and then from him, I'm thinking it's him now began because of Rex. Let's go

back to Manhattan. Yeah, let's go back to and the way he said, let's go back to honest, got that's how he says it. No, I believe he's just like, we'll also make it one of the way. He says this, but something about near water. He says, we're not near water, or we're almost near We're on Long Island, we're near the ocean. Yeah, it's it's I think that's Michael Pack, Her driver said, because she's like, where am I I don't know where I'm at?

Yeah, you're you're in You're on Long Island, near the ocean, near the water or something like that. Why that's the show? She's way out of her mind at that point. I don't know. And then she says, you're being sarcastic about this. You were a part of this all along, there you go. That's a big one. That's my favorite one. Not a favorite one. It's terrible, but that's a big one. Is Pack a part of this? I'm getting I'm getting body goosebumps everywhere.

I'm thinking Pack was a part of this. I'm thinking that maybe Rex bided his time with this victim that got away found the way in Now. I was thinking initially that it might have been through the Brewer, and I could still be right, But now I'm thinking it's Pack. Okay, So there's a little pattern, right with Rex hunting down the taxi driver, yes it got away. I mean that's him hunting down the one that got away,

trying to to yes, try to tie up loose ends. So you got to listen to the interview with him and antoinamera because you hear his voice for twenty five minutes. You hear Rex's voice. Now that I'm thinking about, oh did I just hit the mic? Now that I'm thinking about it, it could sound like Rex's voice in that nine one one call based on watching that video of the interview with Antoinamera. That's oh man, Yeah, I'm

freaked out. Hope. So because I feel like this solidifies more of a resting and now I maybe have to take back my original statement, my original theory that Shannon was the one off in this case, the coincidence that brought on all these other cases. So maybe she really was a part of it. Maybe he even killed her close to his dropping his his hunting grounds to make it easier. Even I call her the here to go gole beach to do it, you know, hmmm, a faster, more streamlined. I

don't know. And she was just too spry to she didn't know it was a different it was a different client. Yeah, and she got freaked out. I mean she screamed it. She saw him walking down the block towards Colletti's house. She fucking screamed, Yeah, because after her, she doesn't want to be alone. That's what he wants alone with her. That's where the scream happens is at Colon's house, at his front door. I can see you're trying to get in the door, trying to call the COS and

she sees her like, yeah, big ass fucking frame. Are you kidding me? And knowing that she narrowly escaped once in the hotel room, Dude, I need a drinkin. I'm telling you that gave me complete body goosebumps. Man. Yeah, and that I really wanted to mention that because it just seems like he's tying loose hands. He let the he let the cat go. He was scared. That dispatch was smart. It's a few smart moments in this whole thing. Yeah, you have very good there's no camera

in there. Obviously he's bullshitting. He could hear, but he can't see. And I guess based on his reply he knew Rex's name. But yeah, Rex fell for it knows he's not as smart as you think. He says, thank god he got caught because he's not as he thinks he is. But still, I'm telling you, man, I feel like he did Shannon. Damn. I hope we find soon. I hope we find out soon. Yeah, you know, they said they got mountains of evidence from

his house. Let's hope. Yeah, part of it solve Shannon's I mean that one seems like a quick job, for sure, quick job, we know because of how she was held yeah, compared to the others, but it could just be that this story. Man. Yeah, anyway, what's the other one? We have more? I know, yeah, I got two more. So this next witness came forward with a swarnffidavit, but she wasn't a prostitute. Instead, she was a swinger back in the nineties. At the time, our witness, she was dating a New York cop and

they would go to swingers clubs together. Nothing wrong with that. Now, in nineteen ninety six, when the couple were visiting a popular swingers club called Latrepez in Midtown Manhattan, the couple found an advertisement in this bar, in this swingers club for a house in Massapequa Park hosting swinger parties. Yes, so the two, the cop and this girlfriend, they decided to go to the home in mass Pekle Park for some fun, but not before picking up

another woman, a prostitute who had just gotten out of jail. Now, according to witness our witness, the prostitute, she was in a bad way. She was disheveled, messy looking, she was hungry, she was really banged up, and she was very reluctant about going to this house. But when she found out that the band she was with was a New York City cop. She relented and went along. Now, supposedly, according to this witness, the house they went to belonged to Rex Huerman and Rex's wife,

Asa was there that in fact, Rex and Asa were swingers. Again, at the surface, there's nothing wrong with this, but it does shed a slightly different light on Asa. The witness claims Rex and this cop had sex together, and the CoP's girlfriend, the witness, also had sex with Rex. Asa, on the other hand, she was supposed to have sex with the witness, But our witness is black. She didn't know that originally,

and apparently Asa doesn't get down like that. Okay. Now, Ultimately, the cop and his girlfriend leave the hero men's house and they leave the prostitute behind. That disheveled woman they picked up, Yeah yeah. When our witness asks the cop her boyfriend what gives while they're leaving this woman behind, he answers that we're just playing a game. Everything's fine, don't worry about it.

And before they can pull away, this woman comes running out of Rex's house, buck naked and screaming, But again the cop assures the witness are his girlfriend, Hey, everything's fine. They're just playing a game. They

do this all the time. It's not until much later, when the witness sees a photo of Karen Vergatta on the news, the sex worker whose partial remains were found on Fire Island, that our witness realizes Virgatta was the prostitute they picked up and brought to Huerman's house, the one who was just playing a game with Rex and his wife. In case you don't remember from the last episode, Karen Vergatta, she's the one that disappeared on Valentine's Day nineteen

ninety six. Two months later, her feet and legs were found on Fire Island, and five years after that, her skull was found off Ocean Parkway near Peach's remains. Now, if this story is true, that puts Karen Vigatta with Hueman and his wife inside his home, and it also makes Asa out to be much more involved in Rex's doings than we know. Remember when her hair was found on a few of the gig four victims, kind of makes you wonder, does was it a few? I thought that it was

just one. Did I mistake that? I believe one of the victims had two hairs on her? Okay, good strange. If that's true, that's fucking huge, man, that's very strange. Also, like I'm curious as too. She divorced that cop, right, so they weren't dating, okay, and the CoP's never been named John Ray, the lawyer for Shannon Gilbert's family, he knows who this cop is, won't release the name. But they were just dating at first. I was thinking, I was thinking Burke,

Yeah, Burke was he was self accounting. He wasn't New York City right right, But they're a skip or a hop away. But like still doesn't mean yeah, it doesn't mean that, yeah it was. I don't think it was Burke. But what a crazy what a crazy story that one is man to think of that? I mean do I mean? I mean it seems like that story is it not designed? If it's real, which sounds real, I mean that sounds real, but it's more weights added to

its reality because of its signed that for David of course. Besides that, that's I think it is not designed, but it sounds like it's designed to implicate Asa, do you think, yeah, to definitely, I mean, it connects Racks to this horror, this thing, but like he's already a connect it so like. But I think what it also does is that it may be implicat say so, at least in the public's view and the public

not actually it's circumstantial, but in the law. But to the public it does, Yeah, because it does to me right, you know, makes her look a lot more shady. Yeah, not this innocent housewife who is you know, either completely ignorant or under the thumb of human and couldn't say anything but new Yeah, it definitely makes you see more involved. What do you think about this cop saying like, oh, it's the game or whatever the fuck? Obviously he's involved. He knows what's going to happen. He

brought her there, I pick her up. He brought her there. Do we know the ethnicity of this cop? Nope? Because could he be the other guy in the truck? Never said Yeah, I don't know. I'm saying from that earlier incident, which is maybe why the other cop let him go. Yeah, because he's a cop himself. I don't know. I'm just saying, is this more con is as connected as it feels like or not? Man, with this story, it wouldn't be surprised surprising if it

was connected like that is there like a mafia for circulars. Oh dude, that's a cool story movie idea, right, that's a movie idea. Yeah, wild, isn't it. That's a I mean, how do you make money of circuling? You can't? All right Now, this final witness is something I found out about very recently. I had to script it in here at the last minute, and it has to do with another sex worker that

disappeared where Rex owned some property. Now this property, it's four lots of land located in a wooded area in Chester County, South Carolina, less than two hours from the Red Bay Road area in Sumter, South Carolina. Or a thirty six year old mother of three named Julia Ann Bean disappeared on May

thirty first, twenty seventeen. Now, since the year two thousand, Rex's younger brother, Craig Huerman, has lived just down the street from Rex's property, and Rex has visited with his brother many times over the years, so he's definitely been in the area Rex has now According to Julia Bean's daughter Cameron or Caim. On the day Julia disappeared, she and her mom were meeting up at a nail salon to get manicures because Cam's high school graduation was the

very next day. Now, according to Cam, Julia pulled up to the salon in a dark colored truck driven by some unknown man. The man chatted with Cam for a bit and he told her he owned big boats and lake properties, and he offered to take Cam to concerts, and he said he wanted to marry her mother, Julia, and that was it. After this interaction at the nail salon, Julia Bean was never seen or heard from again. It was discovered at Julia's house that she left behind her wallet, cell

phone, and keys, as well as her purse with cash inside. Now, at the time of the disappearance, Julia was addicted to drugs and she had turned to prostitution to support her habit. And again she's never been found. Now, I left the picture of Julia Bean in the show notes. But she was attractive, brown hair, blue green eyes. She stood five five feet six inches tall, weighed one hundred and ten to one hundred and twenty pounds. And then if that isn't the perfect Long Island serial killer victim,

right, yep, I don't know what is now. It wasn't until Rex was arrested and his face plastered all over the media that the daughter Cam put two and two together and realized, holy shit, that man driving the dark colored truck was Rex Hureman. And authorities are investigating Cam's claims seriously. But again, Rex hasn't been charged with Julia's murder and he is not even a suspect as far as I know. But if he could be convicted on

circumstantial evidence, he'd be fucked. I mean how fucked, But a lot more would be too. That's crazy. That's a new one. I definitely wasn't just recording. Yeah, that is that's so. And finally, here's

one last thing that points to Huerman. If you remember from the last episode, when we discussed the discovery of Marine Brainerd's Barnes body, Marie Brainer's Barnes body at Gilgo Beach, we said that she had been bound by three belts, and one of those belts was a very unique one because it had the initials w H or HM stamped into it. Remember, depending on how you

held the belt WHHM. As it turns out, Rex Huerman's grandfather was named William William Huerman w H. Now, listeners, that's really all I got for you. On the Long Island serial killer. There's really been no developments hitting the media since maybe early August or so. I did read that Commissioner Rodney Harrison, the guy who assembled the task force that finally caught Huerman, he's stepping down from his position sometime this December to spend time with his family.

Whether this is the real reason, or there's some power it takes behind it, I don't know. But he's leaving the Suffolk County Police now. Finally, finally, finally, I'll leave you with this our old friend, the disgraced Suffolk County Police Chief, James Burke. He was arrested in a sex solicit solicitation sting on August twenty second, twenty twenty three, so, I mean just recently at Suffolk County Vietnam Veterans Memorial Park. Burke was accused

of soliciting a male prostitute and exposing himself. But the male prostitute was actually an undercover park ranger. Now, according to the report, Burke pulled out his pants, pulled his dick out, and began to masturbate while telling this park ranger that he likes quote sucking dick. Burke was charged with public lewdness

in decent exposure, criminal solicitation, and offering a sex act. Now, for whatever reason, the charges of criminal solicitation and offering a sect act sex act were dropped, and of course the puke pled not guilty to the public lewdness and indecent exposure charges. He was due back in court on October sixth,

but I've not seen anything, so it's likely been postponed. And just today, as we're recording this, I read that Asa ellerup Rex's wife has struck a deal with production companies to put out like a docuseries on for Peacock and fifty cents. Production company g unit is involved Peacock. I just cancel that it's gonna be coming out of Peacock. I'll give you my login going. I got so And a lot of people are fucking pissed about this because

rumors say she got a million bucks to tell her story. You said, yeah, you're selling your life, life story, yeah, yeah, and others reports, other stories I read say that she's getting much much less. All she's selling is the rights to like the name, personal stuff, photographs, just personal items. She's selling the rights to that stuff so they could use it. That's it, that this is gonna go without a hitch. I mean the guy hasn't been properly charged. No, I mean I'm saying

likely wait for the fucking story to finish. Yeah, you got for bad Jesus. But you know, and then that business though, being versus quality, right, Yeah, and they don't care. They don't care. They would be first, right, they would be first, and they don't give a shit about anything else. Yeah, that's all we really know. She's suing the stuff Acounty police wants to get those guns because all the guns were confiscated. They say there's a few hundred thousand dollars worth of guns. So

she wants that because she needs the money. Apparently the police guys, there's no no passing down his money to her. What's that called, sorry, inheritance, inheritance or something. No, I'm assuming all his money that he has if it's great to court and right, yeah, I got it, got it and anything. I'm sure their assets are seized any money. He does have his seat at this point. So, uh, you know, apparently the police completely fucking destroyed their house while they were looking forward so that

they got nothing. So you know, there was GoFundMe set up for Asa and her kids. Now she's got you know, she's selling the rights to her story, and she wants to sell all the guns. And I think the guns are going to go back to her because she needs money. They got nothing, and their house is a piece of shit. Yeah, Which, so that's the one thing you'll read about the search warrant that was executed on their home is that supposedly he was a millionaire. He had a successful

architectural business, but his home was a fucking dump. Did you see pictures? Oh yeah, it's a dump. It's it looks like shit. Yeah, so, and it's cluttered. He bought the home from his mom, you know, for a ridiculously low price. It's an expensive neighborhood that they're in. So he made out like a bandit there. He grew up in the home that's his childhood home, left it, left it cluttered, full of ship. Yeah, but it makes sense that his grandfather's belt would still

be in the fucking house, right. W h makes me feel like even more likely that there's definitely some ship there. They said they got mountains of evidence. I'm thinking trophies and thinking a lot of things. Yeah, and if she is as innocent as I'm thinking she really is, in the end, I have for Aesa. I hope she makes it up as much as possible. I feel sorry for the kids, Like when you look at the pictures, especially the son Christopher, he's mentally challenged, you just feel real

bad. Yeah. Yeah, And I got pictures of a family on the show in the show notes listening. They're also victims, especially the kids. They're innocent, definitely part of it in a naive way. Something I was just gonna say. Something else I heard recently was listeners look up time out dolls to google the term time out dolls, and then in relation to Long Island, Serra Killer looked that up to Yes, so you saw the photos Oscar show it to me. Okay, Yeah, so they found what's called

timeout dolls, and apparently these were big in the eighties and nineties. There's kind of they're kind of these crocheted dolls that are made to stand against the wall and they look like kids in time out with their nose against the wall.

Super creepy, fucking the dumbest thing I've ever seen. So dumb, yes, but it's all so what they what was happening is for each of the gig four victims, they had like little memorial service memorial spots where their bodies were found, like you see on the side of highways and stuff. You see the cross from motorcycles people that died, same thing here. They had these crosses set up with candles and their names on the crosses. Well, someone put these Timeout dolls at these crosses. Yeah, as if to

say these women were bad. They're on Timeout. How fucking sick could you get? And one of them, I think it was Marine Brainer Barnes. One of the time out dolls had like stuffing coming out of its mouth m signifying like something was done to this person's mouth, you know, maybe during the murder or something like that. Fucked up, dude. It brings out all the craziest kind of ship. Bring out the crazies. Some guy in some basement somewhere I saw an opportunity, Like my chance, that's what it

is. Because people were saying, oh, it's Rex, it's Rex putting the girls in time out. I mean could be, but I don't think so high. But that's it. That's it. Riving from Manhattan to that park and that's it. Right back and forth. He's just going back and forth. Want an asshole? Yeah? No. One thing I was confused about too, is I'm not sure where his avalanche. Yeah, the Chevy Avalanche was confiscated. From some stories I read made it sound like it was

at his brother's house in South Carolina. Did you see it coming and just got it from there? If you saw it coming brother to his brother, I don't know how it wind up for his brother. Other stories make it sound like it was CONFI skated at his master people Park home. So that's great. It goes it's fifty to fifty. Where did they find this thing? But I don't know how much is that? Is that even important? But maybe it could be, certainly could be if there's blood or hair or

some sort of result. There's brother could be mixing the gain. I don't know what the book, but apparently his brother has been in trouble at the law. Shit like that, like small shed or bigger shit, assault on neighbors, and he's just kind of a fucking wacko. It's a drunk of wacko, ma'am. I guess, sir, that's where they hang out. I guess so. I mentioned in the first part one of this show. Again, if you have the any of this far without us into part one,

What's wrong with You? We mentioned that psychic, Yes, some of that psychic that got something right. Yes, So I'm surprised that you didn't say anything more about that in a sense like, well, I'm sorry, nothing more came out of that. In reality, meaning that she the psychic, I imagine is that she didn't come out to try to capitalize on this, or like the family sought her off for further predictions that we know about.

Obviously we don't because you didn't say anything else, might to assume there's nothing else we know. And really that was just a blurb. And I think it was like a New York Times story. It was a blurb. It was just a blurb in that story that I feel like we're a supernatur podcast. We should probably ask I remember, you should call her up. I think she'll answer which victim that was? And I don't have episode one on me on my iPad here, but you're right, one of the victims

the family content. I think it was for Marine or it was from of the Go Go for it was one of the Go Go It might have been Marino more that's I'm thinking because the psychic said that she'll be found in a shallow grave near water, yes, with a sign with the letter G. And of course she was found on the shore of the Atlantic. Creepy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, did I mention to you about the uh Peach? Was that off air about Peaches and her kid? I think

it was off air? So I mention, now we had an idea today? Yeah, yeah, I had an idea about it. I was listening to part one on the way home here on the way to this recording. Sorry, and it's like at home no lately, yeah, fucking lately.

Yeah, Katie's like, what up? She doesn't even say how to be privately about how it was strange and people were saying that obviously she had her kid with her and that people were saying that speculating that she took your kid, whether it was like we hard to find a babysitter or the care and took him to an alcohol but like, no, no, no, most

likely it was an in call. We got a lot of these, a lot of these situations and murders happened when they were in calls too, so like, yeah, most likely it was her place where she had her kid with her, and then another room maybe or if it was a motel, same room, maybe the bathroom, who knows, And then maybe he cried disturbed. You know, it could be a lot of things. I even said that I could have been a mercy thing, like instead of letting the

kids start just killing me. I don't know how darkness goes. I'm just saying that. I think that's more likelier than her bringing her baby outwood to a call. I want to mention that because it seemed like most people were thinking alcohol, Like, no, I'm thinking in call on that one, which is fucked up for sure. But what isn't fucked up here? Yeah? Is the thing the seventeen year old from the Victoria, the artist,

the DNA that's pending with her. That's interesting you mentioned that. I assume that's for the Falls guy, the Nathan Falls Or is this for Rex? I think it's for Rex. Okay, I hope so well. It could be it could be Neil Falls too. Yeah, no, I mean you're right, it couldn't. I think every murder should be hell up against that guy as much DNA as you can. I think he was way more active

than ten things so too. I mean, that guy is pretty scary, the fact that we know nothing, and when you see his picture he looks like a fucking pip squeak dude, like like STABUSHEMMI uh. And that movie where he plays a serial killer. What's that movie? Con Air? Oh? God? Like that he looks a little more fuller in the face. Okay, but yeah, he just looks like a fucking do like a teacher or something like a Yeah, it's so weird. So I have two more

things regarding Atlantic City. Yes, it seems like that's the least likeliest scenario that anyone we talked about is involved there. I don't know, those are mols are different. It feels like it's different enough. I'm not saying that the way they looked. Yes, they're all sex workers, I get that, But like, I know that mentioned the problems with the Vegas ones, I mentioned those those. Apart from that, I feel like Atlantic City feels

like a completely different killer to me. Yeah, we don't forget Atlantic City. They were behind that hotel, yes, and they were evenly spaced three d and twenty feet apart. They were told their heads were facing east. Yeah, the east, they say the gig victims heads were facing east. It just seems so bizarre, Like Tracy, New York, New Jersey. I'm Tracy, right, that's a drive because they love comparing each other. That is a drive far. No, you're right, it's not far.

And I felt I felt weird. I think mainly because of Tracy, her whereabouts like that. She was the fourth victim that we talked about, third one, third one for the Atlantic City. They're all ages twenty nine to forty two, So that threw me off to the age. Yeah, a little bit older. That's twice older for thirty what was it forty two, thirty, Yeah, that's a little bit older. I think, noticeably older for this guy. If it's our guy, that's what That's what threw me

up. That's exactly what. That's the I knew. I wrote it down for a reason. That's why. But I think also a common theme with those women is they were they were heavily. Is that the thing is that the drugs were used to subdue them too. This guy didn't never needed that. Either they did it themselves or he gave it to them, we don't know, but some of them when you mentioned there were lethal amounts yeah, yeah, so the one leaves so no, I mean he meane this.

I mean I feel like this killer used a different entire methodology and like different types, not different types, but different women, different victims. It just doesn't feel right to me. I think the age is the biggest one there, and I don't know if that's a big sticking point for me. I just think they were so badly addicted to drugs that they were just way too convenient. That's what I think. So it was easy pickings for him,

easy pickings. Maybe that's what you're thinking. Yeah, the age doesn't really bother me. Well about the two unknown men that accompany her with Tracy when she leaves the hospital, Mom says that, yeah, I know, I know that's your accompany men. We mentioned that guy with the truck earlier with the one other one, and mentioned fact that he could be have an accomplice

with him. Is that what that is? Last scene with two unaccomped two men accompanying her, That's yeah, that's the story, you know, and just missed her mom by five minutes. By five minutes, she was coming right back. If you drove all night or ninety minutes straight. Yeah, And it's never really clear on who sees them. Yeah, was it a hospital worker that sees them? Prostitute that's where the background the streets ready and the prostitute senior with two john's. It's not clear, but yeah, who

are those people? That's who I'm looking for from a cop. Yeah, And there was really never a physical description of these people put out there. I have been far enough away tonight. Yeah. Well one was almost seven feet tall, that's rex. Yeah, nothing was ever given. That's the other thing I think I mentioned in the first take of this thing, where like the worst thing you can be is be so distinctive that you can be described from a farm, Like you can't be a serial killer. You can't

be seven feet tall and be a serial killer. No, Like you're so easily spotted. What an idiot? Like just curb your appatite or cut your legs off, because what are you doing commit murders on your knee? Right right right? Just go kneel down. That's a funny image to me. That's probably not good. But you know what I'm saying, like like he's too distinguished, and the lgarness also doesn't help, right, No, nothing helps, it does, nothing helps. I feel like, this guy should

have been caught a long time ago. Obviously, this speaks more against our systems and shit, and have to mention our socially speaking systems of not respecting adult human beings like sex workers. We talked about that last episode, right, but yeah, the lost stuff is not very good, very slow and ignorant, and this is the result of that because this guy should have been caught so much longer ago. Look at the phone. Shit agreed, what an idiot agreed? Yeah, they they really dropped the ball on this.

At least he's behind bars now. Yeah, let's hope this is the guy. We have to really saddened me as if it comes out that he killed way more than we even know, like, because that would just make it worse. You know, Like, I don't know what is a window? You know, everyone talks about a serial killer has their their window not appetite window. They call it something, right, their window? How many times they kill before they have to do it again? Right when the next time

they feel they have that cooling off period? Yeah, yeah, yeah, they call it something though it's not name for it. I don't know, so I don't know how many more kills they have, but best. Well, Fiat thought, let's hope it stops here. Yeah, let's hope it stops here. Yeah, until we start hearing more about this Neil's fall. Neil falls guy, right then, I think we're going to see a trail unfortunately with him. But time will tell. Yep, time will tell,

and hopefully some new news comes out so we could update you guys. Yeah on this case. Yeah, right, right, should have like pangs and notifications ready, you can, Yeah, you can set up Google Now, that's a good idea. I should set up a Google alert so anytime anything with Rex hits, the news will get links to it, and we'll try to keep you guys updated. Do you have more questions? No more thoughts? Maybe a couple of little ones, but no big deal. I think

I got everything. Are you sure? I am good? Yes? All right? Well, you know, I hope everyone liked these two episodes. Make sure and check the show notes and have a merry Christmas. Is that going to be? This is going to be close to a yeah, okay, so time in December. We'll come back in January, probably January. Okay, so merry Christmas, thank you, yeah, Merry Christmas, bastards. Well then there you go, scre Could you please hop us along home

a long case at each wow, Goose Island sticker and ship. Yeah, do you want some or no? I will try some. Anything you gave me I'm putting in my mouth. Okay. Oh that was nice, satisfying sound. Oh interesting, hmmm. I like the wait of this. It's a nice it's a nice cap. It's a very nice cap. We're so dorky that we're so into the shed a little bit. That's good, thank you. And it's a hundred proof so it's not like insane, but it's good on this hunter proof. Yeah, that day when we recorded part one,

I think I rank too much, too fast. It was a little little dizzy, A little dizzy. Yeah, I need neither. But yes, I'm digging the smell. Yeah, I'm digging the smell too. Let's try Oh you want to try it on camera? Yeah, we'll try on camera that we can give our our reactions there. All right, fair enough. I've been recording for I don't know how long now, so oh okay, anyway, lucky, let's try this. Oh no, we want to try it on the on that thing? Yeah you ready? Yeah, okay,

I wish I still smoked. I've been feeling like smoking lately. I'm sorry, am I bad influence on your No? Okay, no, but that does smell like it's the we call them the bumin natty. Like when you go to Italian weddings, they have these little lace packets filled with these candied almonds. Delicious. Oh they're so good. And that's what that smells like. It smells like those candy almonds, And it's like, do you

want to try it? No? You kidding? I got what half a foot in the grave as it is, the last thing I need to do is start destroying my lungs again. Yeah, I get it, all right, Yeah, baby, drink, keep trying to go for I want to drink this fucking whiskey. Okay. See this is the difference right here, instead of like well no, no, no in my head anyway five four three two one Part three to mention like, it's not like quite like that. It's more like like I don't know stuff stuff and things are things you

could tell I was. I wrote this part at home because it's well thought out, was full suns. And then you're like Karen Manhattan, okay, Jody two thousand and three, cowgirl like. I said that because I'm driving. Fucking dude. You gotta be careful, man, I do it careful. At least you weren't watching a movie. Well I was done. No, I wasn't, but nice will be. Oh yes, chocolate noodle nipples, baby bumpers. What's a noodle nipple or trying to get to No,

I know what you're doing. Yeah, I need water. Gonna go get some water. Okay, Well I saw you going five four three two