Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, and welcome to the one hundred and fiftieth episode of the Supernatural Occurrence Studies podcast, So Damn Paranormal. I don't feel like swearing when you say happy holidays, but it's my name is Jason Knight, host of the show, and with me as always is Oscar Spector Happy Holidays, the polite producer Extraordinary and podcast co host, So Oscar. What has been going on over this last month? I mean, not a lot,
unfortunately, nothing to report necessarily. I would say that one thing is that I you know, this feels like the one hundred and fifty first episode. I don't know why. I'm just gonna have to bear with me on that one. Guys, it just feels like we're a number below where we are. Okay, nothing, what's been going on? And see not just getting ready for holidays? I guess no, But for me, holidays mean work means work for me, you know, not a whole lot of changes other
than it gets worse, just gets busy on holidays. On my end, you know, there's no there's no time off. Last time I enjoyed actual holidays, I guess was when I should go to school and school time was off, right, It's the time and you could actually have the time off and stuff. So not to be all downy Debbie Downey on it, I'm just saying that. No, I'm kind of just been working and yeah,
like today, a little work, a little later. But yeah, it's been an ok day, an okay time, playing some games, watching some movies, getting ready for the end of the year list. It's the craziest time of the year for me for that, Oh, the end of the year. Top ten, that's right, yeah, top ten movies of the year. Don't ask me. I have no idea. I wrote. I wrote down, like you know, all the movies I watched, and I'm like, I don't know how I'm gonna whittle this down. Yeah, it's
all right, it's gonna leave it. And that's been just chilling around. Man. How about you kind of the same here, you know, just busy, busy with work as always, but you know, having kids, Yeah, I mean, we're in that magical moment right before Christmas. Today is their last day of school and they're just so excited and it's really cool to just sit back and take that in as parents, because we don't enjoy
it that much anymore. It's always very busy and hectic, like you said, but just seeing the look on the kids' faces and feeling that anticipation, it's awesome. And you know, we're also planning vacation immediately after Christmas. We're heading down to flow Rider to do some dolphins swimming and going to Disney and all sorts of cool stuff. So we're really looking forward to that time off of work, just being as a family. Are you planning on for
Christmas itself before you leave? Are you planning on making something, baking something, cooking something? Yeah? So Christmas Eve, my son he's in a musical for CCD class that's religious education class for people who don't know. It's to get him ready to make his first Communion. He's playing a little one of the three kings in that show. So we're really excited about that Christmas. I believe he's the third. I don't want to say it's like Baltazaar
or something like that. That's the last right. I looked this up when we first found out about it. I think it's like King Balthazar or something. But when we come home, I'm making a nice uh veener schnitzel and spetzel for for the family and my mom, which I do pretty good at, I think. And then Christmas Day it's just hectic, get up, open gifts, go to the in laws, come back home, cook a dinner for my family. I'm not looking forward to that one at all.
But your family party, just the just having to go and have a Christmas and then come home and create a Christmas later that night. It's gonna be it's gonna be challenging. But hey, those are the holidays for adults. Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, other than that, nothing, nothing else, nothing else really to report. That's cool. Yeah, yeah, all right. Oh, I guess I should have mentioned if you want to skip the intro timestamp in the show notes. I forgot to mention that. Oh
yeah, it's fine, fine, it's Chris. I mean, we're we're yeah, it's Christmas. It's been hacked it We're a little lot of practice. It feels that way anyway, And and it frankly feels like I'm in a groundhog Day scenario right now. I feel kind of like Bill Murray right now. Actually, I think should we mention it? Yeah, last night Oscar and I were up very late recording this exact same episode, and uh, we get to the end of it. I think it went really well.
And we get to the end of it and I realized I didn't hit record. No, the lanscap was on the whole time. It's like, it's like we go to It's like we go to Martin Scorsese in nineteen ninety making Goodfellas, and we do that wonner that one shot through the cat, through the whole, through the kitchen, glove right through the kitchen, and radio nails it. Everyone's in a good mood. It's like the seventh time. They all want to go to State, but they were just you know,
it's a good time. We make it and the camera guy goes other lenscap was on hold on exactly the same, exactly the same, and Marty is like, that was a perfect shot. How was it? Oh, how do we tell them this? How do we tell them? Yeah, so here we go Take two. Take two. So to your point, a husker a little bit rusty, I guess being off the mics for so long, I guess so right. I do want to mention really quickly that we have received quite a bit of feedback on Instagram and Facebook, from listeners
who are are okay with the format change that we made. They understand that it had to be done to keep the quality of the show up, and they were support. Supportive was the word I was looking for, So definitely thank them for that. Yeah, that is super awesome. You know, that reminds me of something else. Might had a feedback of a personal nature for the show. Many personal meaning people that I know that actually listen to
the damn show. It's hard to Yeah, family and French, sure, but I trust me, when you're a podcaster, they rarely have ever listened to it. But the one a few that do really suggested has told me, through two or three different different occasions already, like are you gonna make because I mentioned that one idea of many shows ago this year, how maybe I should make some of our shows curate them for for like a TikTok video or something, because some of them can't be translated into that, you know,
not not so much others, but some do. And she was like, are you gonna do that yet? You know, she's excited. I want me to do it. I'm like, I haven't started yet yet. I don't know which one, but maybe so and that's uh, that's not just one. Two people told me that. Something asked me that about if I'm doing that, and I'm like, I would be interested. It's just that I know it's gonna be a lot of work, and it's just it's extra work that I don't need to do, so I'm not gonna rush it.
Well, it's good to know people are interested in that. That sort of set up. It's cool, right exactly. So anyway, so I mentioned that give them what they want to, let them eat cake. Oh is that a Marie Antoinette and something? Yes, eat your cake and listen to the podcast too. Right, So how will they ever reach us today if they even want time? Yes? So the easy number, of course,
no phone over right. The easiest way to contact the Supernatural Occurrent Studies Podcast is by visiting our brand new website, Chicago Ghost Podcast dot com. From Chicago Ghost Podcast dot com, you'll get to all of our social platforms including Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, and of course Patreon. And in case you did not know, the Supernatural Occurrent Studies Podcast is on Patreon and for just five dollars a month, you get access to a library of
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some cool swag that comes along with your patronage as well. And speaking to Patreon, I do want to give a shout out to our brand new Staypuffed marshmallow Man level patron Generally from the UK, so thank you very much for supporting the podcast. Generally General is also a podcast host. I want to make sure and mention this. It's the Subconscious Realms podcast. Yeah, you can find them on Spotify. If you love conspiracy and aliens and cryptozoology and
anything weird and unusual, definitely check them out. And while you're on Spotify, give them a rating. Spotify is a brand new rating system, so please rate Subconscious Realms and if you listen to our show on Spotify, please do the same. We need some love on Spotify. You can reach the podcast by calling a phone number. Hi Romance Romans. You can't, you can't? Could you? Just? Is that for modell something? I go ahead eight seven two five to two die zero seven six seven that Chicago area
code eight seven two five two died zero seven six seven. Leave us a message, send us a text. We'll not awake enough to argue with you on this one, Okay, not await da, He's just gonna let it go. Yeah, that's time. Don't get you said, folks. Yeah, Now, before we go to break Oscar, I do just want to mention this is a show about a cannibal. This is not going to be a pretty show. So I'm giving people fair warning right now. Stop eating,
don't do anything like that while you're listening to this episode. Well interesting, we're doing like cannibal. Huh? And first of all, did not predict that? Did na see that coming? First of all? Secondly, is it like a Christmas cannibal, like a like a guy who eight people in Christmas? Maybe? Or is it a Santa Claus that went crazy one time? Or is it a no no no, It's just not nothing related, nothing fast, nothing festive at all at all other than I'm bringing some
depraved ship to our listeners for Christmas. Is it's like your revenge for having to cook Christmas? Make Christmas into food? The world will suffer, right exactly, Okay, I'd be waring guys. So with that, let's take a quick break. Let's do it. Listeners, welcome back to the show. Well, the lights are turned down low, the ceremonial candle is lit,
and the drinks are flowing. Let's start this show. So is Si Sagawa, also known as the Kobe cannibal or just pang like a sudden overwhelming urge or feeling like hunger pangs, is a Japanese murderer, necro file, and cannibal, a nice little trifecta of fuckery who killed an Aida woman in
Paris, France in nineteen eighty one. Now I say it's he. Sagawa is a Japanese murderer, necrophile and cannibal instead of was, because this guy, despite his absolutely appalling crime, is alive and not so well in the suburbs of Tokyo today, hobbling along as a free man, and believe it or not, for a time, it's he. Sagawa even gained minor celebrity status, cult like status based exclusively on the terrible crimes he committed. An
oscar. He even did a stint in porn but I'm getting ahead of myself. Now. I just want to again issue a warning. This is a pretty nasty episode. I'm calling it a red Band episode, so listeners beware. The thing Sagawa did to his victim are atrocious acts born in hell, and the fact that Sadowa got off with little more than a slap on the wrist is just unbelievable. Actually, it's hard to believe this story actually happened,
that this is a true story, but it is. Now. Be sure to check the show notes because we've left a lot of pictures that coincide with this episode. Pictures of Issy Sagawa, pictures of his victim, and some crime scene photos and Oscar. I really had some trouble with these crime scene photos. I went back and forth with myself trying to decide if I should include them, because it wasn't like picking your favorite out no, no,
no favorites in this No. I just went back and forth trying to decide if I should even put him in there, because they do exist, unfortunately I've seen them. Decided to do is include some of the crime scene photos, but not all. I'm not going to include photos of the victim herself or more like what remained of the victim after Sagawa was done with her. The photographs of Sagawa's handiwork are so fucking brutal. Just if you really
want to see them, use Google. Unfortunately, they're all too easy to find, but be warned, you can't un see them now. Issi Sagawa was born on April twenty sixth, nineteen forty nine, in Kobe, Japan, on the southern side of the island of Hanshu. Now astute listeners might recognize the island of Hanshu because on the northwestern side of the island, about a five hour drive from Kobe, lies the notorious Aokigahara Forest, which we
covered in episode one hundred and forty eight. Yeah not too long ago, right, that's two episodes ago. What yep, yep? Now is he Sagawa? His crimes have nothing to do with aoki Gihara Forest, Like he didn't kill there or anything. But Sagawa once told the documentary film crew from Vice dot Com that Aokigahara has breathtaking scenery and that if he could drive, he would go there and kill himself. So our cannibal Sagawa was well aware
of Aokikihara, the suicide Forest, and the legends surrounding it. I just thought that was a nice little tie in to our Aokikihara episode, you know, Oh yeah, for sure. All right, So, like I said, is He Saga the Kobe Cannibal was born on April twenty sixth, nineteen forty nine in Kobe, Japan, Hence the Kobe Cannibal. Now as a child, is He Sagawa was very unhealthy. He was born premature, and it said that as a newborn, he was so small that he could fit
in the palm of his father's hand. Could you imagine a kid being that small? I can. Actually I was a premie. You were a premium. Oh yeah, like all these years, I had no idea. I never mentioned that. I mean, it's not like I opened up high a mosca was a premie. I mean to try for that to come out, you know what I mean, you have to plan. There's no topic of prem anyway. Whatever I was, and I heard stories like my father would put me in the inside pocket of his jacket in the winter. Oh my
god, is that adorable. I mean, I can only imagine. I've never seen a picture. And they also would put me in shoe boxes. I want to ask her in a shoebox. No, no, you don't. Apparently we're very expensive and unlimited. Apparently unlimited type and fragile, I would assume, probably quite fragile. I didn't, I didn't call. I caught him my mom. A lot of problems, but I wasn't like. It wasn't like a Preemi with all these other complications. There were some,
I'm sure, but nothing to worry about that that Dy've told me. But I was just I was a few weeks or a month. Maybe I don't know. Ah, Okay, I learned something new every day. I did not know that. Yep. So I'm like this guy basically Oscar and the Cannibal, one of the same, right one saying we're basically that's how it starts. That's first sign, first sign. Oh god, So we're gonna get a lot of hate mail from people who were born premature. We are
not because I'm one. It's like it's like if I'm Hispanic, I can make Hispanic jokes. That's the same way I can make Preema jokes. Damn, a whole new world just opened up. The whole huge joke, said our cannibal is the he was premature. But not only was he premature, he was also born with something called enteritis, a disease of the small intestine. Now common side effects of enterritis are diarrhea, vomiting, loss of appetite,
and fever. It's a lot like food poisoning. Actually, Now in adults and to writis can be treated fairly easily with lots of rest and lots of fluid to prevent the hydration. I've had food poisoning a few times. It was really bad and I wanted to die, but in a day or so I was over it and on my way right. However, in newborns, especially when premature, enteritis could be very dangerous, even fatal. Not eating, not gaining weight, vomiting, diarrhea, temperature fluctuations, intestinal perforations,
and blood infections are all potential side effects of infant and enteritis. Now with Issi, he received potassium and chloride and saline injections and he was cured of the enteritis. But at the early age of two, Issi Sagawa contracted Japanese encephalitis, a very dangerous viral brain infection and the most prevalent and significant
Mosquito born viral encephalitis of man. Japanese encephalitis targets the central nervous system, and its clinical side effects are fever, headache, vomiting, seizures, men ingeal irritation or the irritation of the membranes that cover the brain and spinal cord, and interestingly, abnormal behavior and altered consciousness. Life long effects of Japanese encephalitis include deafness, weakness on one side of the body, and uncontrollable emotions.
Very interesting, really, huh Yeah? Now, Apparently for Issy, his Japanese encephalitis was so severe that he almost died from it, and both childhood illnesses, the enteritis and the encephalitis, resulted in Issy being incredibly short, thin, weak, sickly, and withdrawn for the rest of his life. These traits haunted him. In fact, as a full grown adult when
he committed his heinous act. Isi Sagawa stood under five feet tall four foot nine inches according to most sources, not the imposing monster you might think he was considering what he did. In fact is he described himself as looking more like a little monkey than a human. But Issi, despite his physical shortcomings, he was intelligent, he did great in school, earning a master's degree, and he was working on his PhD when he committed his cannibal crimes.
This guy had a thirst for knowledge, especially literature. And just so you know, listeners, there's going to be a lot of unintended puns in this episode. Thirst for literature. You've been warned now. As far as his family is concerned, and this will be important later, is said how his family was affluent, they had money is He's father, Akira, was the president of Karita Water Industries, and Issy's grandfather had been editor for the Ashi
Shimbung, one of the four largest newspapers in Japan. Generational wealth right now. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a lot of information on Issy's mother. Most articles just stating that she had this tendency of being what's known as a dragon mother, overprotective, overbearing, and strict, all with good intentions, of course, but a huge bite in the ass nonetheless see pun. Yeah,
a lot of hard to digestic. A lot of what I read about Issy's mother talked about how she would force feed her infant son in hopes of fattening them up to make them healthy. Even here in the States, there was a time when it was thought that a fat kid was a healthy kid, and such was the case with IS's mother. Yeah, I've heard those things, like it's like when you hear that in medieval times are not that long
ago, maybe less than that. It would be like no, well no, I remember now and that movie Spencer I saw, they did this thing where like they weighed the royal family when they come in for Christmas week or again, and they were expected to gain a certain amount of pounds. That would mean that you honorably like enjoyed the food like they so they would weigh you on the way out, and then the hopes that you were there would be like an extra five to three pounds whatever they wanted. Yeah, that
was like a common thing back then. Yeah, the fat, chubby, healthy baby, right, I mean that was that was the thing. Yeah.
Yeah, so with with Izzy's mother. According to Izzy, this this force feeding, her obsession with food echoing health, actually helped fuel his cannibalistic desires and really over the years, Iss he has given numerous reasons as to why he developed this unnatural, all consuming urge to eat flesh, an urge he says that began to develop when he was just in first grade when a male's when a male classmates exposed milky white thigh made Issy think that looks delicious.
Those are Issy's works, not mine. Some early shit though, yeah,
really really early. Yeah. So Issy recalls his mother's force feeding, and he also recalls this game his uncle would play with Issy and his younger brother June, during which his uncle would dress up as a monster while Issy and his younger brother June played as knights, and the little knights would fight the monster, and if the kids lost, the monster would place the children literally into a large pot for stewing and eating as punishment for losing the make
believe battle. Now, this game was intended to be fun, innocent, a little rough role playing, you know, rough house role playing between uncle and children. The uncle meant nothing bad by this, but for Issy, the thought of eating human flesh, even at a young age, was fascinating and it would stick with them, consume him pun for the rest of his
life. Yeah, and not to mention that when you combine all these things, like you know, the the very nature of having a human stew but as a fun activity, like you associate fun with it, you know, you know what I'm saying like it's playful, it's not whatever, and then yeah, I mean, yeah, I can see now. He also says that as a child, he loved fairy tales about people being eaten, and he especially loved the story of Hansel and Gretel being drawn to the cannibalistic witch.
Right, the witch like to fatten up kids and then she'd eat them. Loved it, He loved this. And you know, here's let's think about this for a second. Isn't it interesting, even terrifying to think about how much power adults, parents our uncles in this case, have over children and how they develop, even if we don't realize it. Those little things we do as adults are little isms, or the games we play, the books we read, the words and phrases we use, completely innocent things.
How those things could be easily misconstrued and twisted in such a way that they can could negatively impact a little developing brain forever. I mean, look at Issy in the monster game, the fairy tales, his mother's feeding. None of these things were done with bad intentions. Yet look what Issy remembers and the feelings those actions stirred in him even as a child, and how he turned out. I'm no child psychologist, but man, I guess we never
really know how much we're fucking up our kids scared. No, Nope, you'll never know either. Some stuff most people, most parents will never know, like they won't have these signs like oh my kids eating people. I know where I fucked up. Like it's more that's clearcut. You can go back and like red flag there, okay, red flag there. Oh yeah, that eighth birthday. Of course I could I forget. I could I
forget that day. But but this, you know, like most of the most people don't know, like how they're fucking them up, Like it's right that one thing you said because you were just annoyed and was off hand, but it's forever embedded in that child's brain. In the adults side, yes, absolutely, And as a parent, that terrifies me. You know, right, you don't know, you probably already instilled them with shad that they you rather not, but no doubt, no control, You had no way
to know how it happened. Right, Yeah, it'll come out in therapy in like thirty years, you know, and your deathbed they'll tell you mag with that one fucking time that yeah, it is terrifying. It's a little terrifying anyway. Is. He also talks about the media and its representation of
Western women for contributing to his budding cannibalistic fantasies. Oh Hollywood, huh, Yeah, the media always portraying Western women is healthy, vibrant, tall, voluptuous, fit, beautiful, exactly everything everything is He Sagawa wasn't in his mind, and he's probably right, sickly creepy. Is he could never land a woman like that, a Western goddess, a woman with which he could develop the kind of physical intimacy that could temper, maybe even completely douse his
cannibal desires. So is he decided that the only way he could have a beautiful woman was to eat her. And with that, for Issi Sagawa, cannibalism and sexual desire became dangerously mixed one and the same. To give an example of how cannibalism and sex mixed into a single monstrous urge, here's a quote from Issy normalizing his desire to consume flesh. Quote. It's simply a
fetish. For example, if a normal man fancied a girl, he'd naturally feel desire to see her as often as possible to be close to her, to smell her and kiss her. Right to me, eating is just an extension of that. Frankly, I can't fathom why everyone doesn't feel this urge to eat, to consume other people. End quote. Frankly, I can't understand why someone would purposely break one of society's most deep rooted taboos eating another human. But hey, that's just me. I mean I have that's the
same issue with other things that are completely normal. Like I don't know why this, why they want this? Why would why would this type want this? Exactly every time? But it's like he treats it like that, like not just like a fetish, but almost like like a preference. It's like like on his dating profile he wants the little box that says Cannibal like he wants it. He doesn't he wants in normal life like that. That's how he's talking about it. That's not on Plenty of Fish. You can't check
that is that still on which I don't know. I have no idea it's wipe right for Cannibal. I don't know if the fuck's going on wipe right. So there's a lot of stuff going on here, right, we have it's these severe childhood ailments. We have this idea of eating consuming equals health games where the loser was cooked and eaten cannibal like fairy tales in the media's portrayal of Western women. The question was he asked, was is he Sagawa's
obsession with eating human flesh created? Was his environment to blame? Or was is he Sagawa born a cannibal? Was there something in the Sagawa DNA that pretty much guaranteed is he would be the ultimate sexual deviant? Now, of course I don't have the answer, and neither does is he. He doesn't know why he turned out the way he did, nor did the shrink. Is he went to see at the age of fifteen, to whom he confessed his urge to eat women. He wanted to understand it, but the shrink
pretty much just ignored him and sent him on his way. After which is he sank even deeper into himself and into his fantasies. It's the whole nature verse nurtured thing. Right, was is he made a candle? Or was he born a cannibal? And one thing I can tell you is that if he looks back at his childhood fondly. He says that his parents loved him
deeply and raised him lovingly. His words, he never mentions anything specifically unusual or dark happening to him as a child that might have triggered such a dark obsession within him. And at the time in Japan, talking openly about sex was taboo, so is he never heard his parents talk about it. They never even mentioned the word sex. Unfortunately, the secrecy surrounding sex left is the unprepared for changes that come with growing older. For example, when he
got his first direction, he thought something was wrong with them. Then he was sick. He didn't know about masturbation or even how to masturbate. He had desires as every growing boy does, totally normal. He just didn't know how to safely satisfy them, so he let a dog satisfy them. Use your imagination on that one. Yeah, but it's funny how he relates them positively, Like how many how many theorycillers would look back into the childhood,
whether or not they wanted to admit it to themselves is very negative. It's very bad or or absence maybe, or like they focus on the one ad time in their famili's life versus you know, maybe other good parts, you know, but this guy is like strangely more open and kind of the nicest cannibal. I don't know, he's very the nicest cannible, you know, like he's just like, it's just me, guys, bro, this is me, this is who I am. I want to chew you, you
know, like I don't know, like it just seems over cool. I don't know, not cool. It's not cool, but he seems cool about it. Like it's just it's weird, like to hear I kind of all be like you, My life was yeah, perfectly. Parents were great. They raised me. Never you never put those two together. So you know. The strange thing here is, yeah, he let a dog satisfy him,
you know. But and that's when is he says his sexual desires began to distort, you know, after this dog experience, they started twisting. See, parents, talk to your kids about sex, all of it. Don't let them figure it out on their own, or else they're going to grow up to eat someone. I'm kidding, of course, but I think it's important kids know what to expect. Those feelings, desires, the bodily changes are all normal, and most importantly, they need to know the safest
way to deal with those things. Ignoring isn't the answer, right, I'm off my soapbox. But still, in Issi's case, I have a really hard time making the connection between him letting a dog satisfy him to fucking full blown murdered necrophilia and cannibalism. I just can't see that leap. How does that leap come in? Now here's something to think about, a little bit of ooho. Hold on a minute. Information. Remember I mentioned very briefly
that Issy had a younger brother named June. Yeah, June. Well, as it turns out, June is a little more than fucked up in the old sex department too. You see, June grew up to be a hardcore masochist. The only way he can achieve pleasure is through his own extreme pain. To get off, he does shit like dab himself, burn himself, or wrap himself in barbed wire, those little razors tearing at his flesh making
him bleed. Yeah, like no man's land. You know that's what they put between right, Yeah, on the d m Z, right on the DMZ. Now to June, this this is ecstasy. I swear to god, It's like the fucking hell Raiser family over here. But it's the same thing with June Sagawa. He doesn't have the slightest idea why he turned out the way he did. Are we gonna give them names? Like he'll raise
their names. There's the this girl or this guy. There's a pinhead, of course, there's there's so many of them you can't give him names. Yeah, Muncher and Monchy, right, and I'm sure flesh terror. I don't know's it's like the creepy dark version of the Christmas reindeer names. You know, there's our Christmas tiant here want I'm looking for one desperately and I
found one finally. You know, the thing with with June makes a little more sense, not to me personally, I'm just saying that the masochism thing, there's a lot of that, a lot more of that, a lot
more openness about that today than obviously back then. But but you know that adding that to with the nature of like the repressed culture that they were in makes sense that he would be that extreme to himself with the with the bark wire like you said, so like it's like, yeah, nowadays, it's like there's safer ways for sure, not permanent damage kind of ways that people
find that's really interesting to read. But like, yeah, it's more common now, it's always been common, but like it's where you come from originally. Like that makes it either extreme bad for you or not or not or maybe not so bad for you, depending with him, I think it is pretty bad, but that's extreme. Yeah anyway, No, but I mean, what are the chances, right, one brother killed and aid a woman, and the other can't come unless he's an extreme pain nature nurture, right.
I just thought the fact that his brother also developed something abnormal was incredibly interesting. Okay, so if he's walking around, he's going to school doing his weird little thing. He actually winds up attaining a master's degree in English literature at a university in Tokyo and nobody knows it. But all the while, his urges to consume are just growing, and it's He's beast just couldn't be contained anymore. It was time to finally fulfill his ultimate dark desire.
You see, is he had become absolutely obsessed with eating a Nordic or German woman, tall, white, blonde hair, blue eyes, just the epitome of female physical perfection, right, white meat, white meat exactly. And it's while he's in Tokyo studying at university that a beautiful, tall German woman catches his eyes. Actually, it was her white thighs that really grabbed Issy's attention. And that was it. She'd be the one. Is he would show her how much he loved her by consuming her. But not Oliver.
Is He just wanted to slice off a piece of her butt to eat. That was it. Couldn't he just have that little taste of creamy white butt meat now? One day, Isy followed the woman home, and he stalked her for a time, watching her through her first floor apartment's windows. Undoubtedly, Issy's thoughts would have caused the devil to blush as he stood there, salivating on the other side of the window pane, watching his meal move about and sleeping naked on the night. Is he decided to make his move.
He waited until the women went to bed, and then he snuck into her apartment. His plan was to hit the woman over the head with an umbrella, knock her out, not kill her, just knock her out. Then he would grab a knife from her kitchen and secure the meat he was after. Is he slowly snuck towards the woman's bed. He loomed over her, but he accidentally bumped into her with his knee. The woman jumped up, screamed ah, and jumped out of bed and shoved these hes bitch ass down
to the floor. It's only four nines. He fled, but he was soon arrested and charged with attempted rape, the police completely unaware of is He's true intentions. Now is He Sigawa was never charged for this attempted rape because his wealthy father Akira, paid the woman off. He bribed her just to go away, and she did. Okay, I see that. I'll imagine. Yeah, I was gonna say that. I didn't want to spoil that
part of the story because I knew you were being serious. But like I just lot of funny things the whole time, like like an umbrella, yeah, yep, that was yeah. I think that was his own words. And then when you were when you were like talking about how he was salivating, it's talking her and shit, I'm imagining them with those sum those rows things, but they's sharpened the knives like he's getting oh, like the old the barbers, old barbs, well, the chef uses to two different metal
prongs. I don't know what they're called. Okay, I'm sorry. And he does that king, king, king, you know, before cutting into the meat. I'm like, that's what I'm imagining. While you're talking, I'm like, I'm like, this is a cartoon villain. Sorry. When when I was scripting that part, you know who I had in my mind, the wolf from the Tom and Jerry cartoons. That's a good one. That's very good one. And they're both are on the same size. Yeah. Now, so, so the father came in, bribed the woman and
she did, she went away, and he wasn't charged. Now, imagine what would have happened if is he was charged? Would he have done time and gotten the help he clearly desperately needed. Would he have ever gone to France? Would his victim still be alive? Who knows? But the father offering the bribe? Bad move, bad bad move. Now, in April twenty sixth, nineteen seventy seven, when he was twenty eight years old,
is he Sagawa left Tokyo and headed to Paris. Whether he left on his own accord or it was his father encouraging him to go away, either to let things calm down, or from the embarrassment of having a son that was a rapist waiting to happen, or both. I'm not sure, but either way, Paris is where is he would become the cannibal he always wanted to be, was obligated to be, as he put it, obligated. Now in Paris Is he became a student at Sorbonne University, working on a PhD
in comparative literature. Dork, it's here at the end. Oh, that's a very that's a very uh bougie school. It is a bougie school, and it just seems like a bougie major, you know. But it's here at the university that Issy would meet his victim. After an exhaustive run of bringing prostitutes home to his apartment almost every night with the very real intention of
killing and eating them. Fortunately, Is he chickened out each time. He just couldn't go through with it. That's when he set his sights on a beautiful twenty five year old Dutch woman and fellow student named Renee harteveldt Is.
He befriended Renee and the two spent quite a bit of time together. She ate dinner at as his apartment a number of times, and at one of these little dinner dates at Isy's apartment, is he actually tried to kill Renee when she wasn't looking, but the gun he intended to use jammed, so he gave up for the evening. Wow. Still, he slowly built her trust, and you can say that is he and Rene became pretty good friends. All the while, Renee had absolutely no idea about Issy's true intentions for
the relationship, or that she had already narrowly escaped death once. So on the night of June eleventh, nineteen eighty one, Issi Sagawa once again invited Renee heart developed up to his apartment for dinner and some schoolwork. He lied and told Renee that one of his professors wanted some German poetry recorded. That was the pretext. Is he used to get Renee to his apartment that night, that and dinner, and poor Renee didn't suspect a thing. Issy chose
the poetry. Renee took a seat at Issy's desk and began reciting the poetry into a recorder. Her back was to Issy, as Issy was smiling and talking to her from behind. Unbeknownst to Renee, he grabbed a twenty two caliber long rifle. He took aim and pulled the trigger and shot Renee right in the back of the head, close to the Really, she never saw it come in. And that's probably a good thing. Well yeah, I mean I guess. Oh man, Okay, go ahead tell you that now
if he claims that. For a few seconds after being shot, Renee kept talking, but then she eventually collapsed onto the desk and then fell to the ground along with the chair shoes sitting on is. He placed a towel under her head and then undressed her. And here's where we're going to get into red band territory. If you're easily offended or have a weak stomach, please do yourself a favor skip ahead a few minutes. Why are you still here's
my question. Why what are you still doing here? Right? Because this gets really ugly listeners, Okay, I better not get any hate mail because I'm giving you fair warning. This next part is bad. After stripping Renee naked, is he had sex with her corpse, and then he began to feed on her. He had it all planned out where he would start eating, and he took pictures of the entire process. Us and the pictures are fucking disgusting. He started with her butt because to Issy that meat looked most
delicious. It had to be the right cheek, though not the left, because the right cheek is further away from the heart and would therefore bleed less. Okay, obviously this isn't true. Is he had no idea how the body works? It doesn't sound true. But if he said he wanted less blood because blood frightens him, can cannibals even be afraid of blood? I don't know. Does he have that Phobieah, there's a phobia with that right called something that. Yeah, I'm one hundred percent sure there is, I
just don't know the name of it. Yeah, that it never came out and explicitly said he had a phobia of blood. That was his own words. I just I'm afraid of blood. I didn't want it. What it's so weird, Like, first, I'm glad that he wasn't born that's tall and muscular, and I'm glad because I imagine he would be worse. The story will go longer, maybe with other things, but like it's so weird.
It's so weird. Everything about him is just so weird. Yeah, he comes, he's like he comes by his he comes by his sins, so honestly, I don't know what to say. And then but he has weird I know, it's like I don't know, It's like I really love bowling, but I can't stand uh, the sound of pins clacking right or like people. I don't know people, but ah, it's so weird. Yeah, yeah, I'm afraid of blood. It had to be the right
cheek because that was farthest from the heart. Yeah, sure, now is He tried to just bite right into Renee's butt, but he quickly realized that the flesh is just too hard to bite into. Oh yeah, it hurt his little jaw. Is. He decided to try a small fruit knife, and even that didn't work, so he gives up and heads to the market to purchase a real knife, kind of like a curved butcher knife. And of course it works. Is he slices through the cheek and immediately he's repulsed.
Instead of finding bright red meat like he thought he'd find, he found what he described as a yellow Indian corn like substance. Instead, it's the fat that he's seeing. Oh is all we looked like damn my button. My Yeah, it's that description is just so gross. Yeah, very very grafic. He's got to cut much deeper to get to the red meat that he desires. And in a documentary I watched if he said he doesn't remember if when he got to that meat he cut off a piece of that red
meat or he just ripped it out with his fingers. Doesn't matter, I guess, because he got the meat he wanted and he ate it. He said it tasted like a nice roasted pork. I'm never eating pork chops again, and I love pork chops. I ate it last night and fucked this guy. From there. He continued to cut and to eat. Some of
the meat he ate raw. Some he cooked, like one of Rene's breasts, which he said swelled up while it was being cooked, and when he tried to eat it, it was way too greasy, which he didn't like, so he threw it away. And some of the meat he ate seasoned with salt and mustard. He said the meat was best this way, cooked and seasoned just right with the salt and mustard. Rene's nose, her nose, part of her lip, her whole right thigh, nearly all of her
left thigh. I mean we're talking down to the bone, nothing left, Both of her breasts gone, and of course the number he did on her butt, and there's more. And this is the thing, like you said, asking, this guy's not ashamed or afraid to talk about what he did, no matter how disgusting or fucked up and depraved it was now well to
him, it isn't. That's the whole thing is disgusting. He cut out and tried to eat renees anus, but it smelled bed, so he fried it up and tried again, but it still smelled bed, so he threw it away. He tried to eat the clitterists right off the body, but he couldn't do it because it stretched like rubber. So again he cut it out, fried it up, and popped it into his mouth. It was delicious, he said, it tasted sweet. He masturbated with one of Renee's
severed hands. He played with their intestines, and took hold of her bladder in her womb. Nothing was left undisturbed. Everything was violated. For three days, Issy feasted on and desecrated Renee, and whatever meat he didn't eat
the police would later find stacked up in Issy's refrigerator. Now, as I said, I was selective on what photos I included in the show notes, but one thing I did include is a black and white photograph showing how Issy laid out on paper plates a lot of the meat he acquired from Renee, about fifteen pounds in total. And all I can say is that if you see this picture and you don't already know what you're looking at, pieces of a human, you'd probably look at the picture and think, oh, nice
spread. We got a bunch of steaks over here, some nice ham over air, maybe some chicken breast. But no, it's none of that. It's a person. I mean, we are bags of an infernal meal. Now, after Rene's body became too spoiled for Issy to enjoy, June is really hot in Paris and there's no air conditioning. You could literally smell that sentence. He chopped her up in his ba Yeah, after he was done
with her. He chopped her up in his bathroom, removing her head, arms, and legs from the torso, and he placed the pieces into two suitcases. Is He then called a cab and requested to be brought to a park near the university he attended. When the cab driver showed up at Isy's apartment. He helped Issy with the suitcases. Remember this is a small little guy. Right. When the driver went to help Issy with the bags, he commented how heavy the bags were, and he jokingly asked if if he
had a body in them? Awkward is He said no, the bags were filled with books. So the cab brought him to the park and off Izy went into the park with his bags. Now we know Issy's weak, right, We've said that a bunch of times. So here he is walking through the park struggling with these big suitcases. Mind you, it's light outside. People literally saw this strange little man first struggling with and then dumping his suitcases by a lake. We're not talking about a criminal mastermind here, listeners.
After if he dumped the suitcases by the lake, he was too exhausted to push them into the lake, so he kind of left him there. And then he stopped and he watched the sunset over the lake. He saw an old man walking with a child, all these beautiful sunset colors, and he just kind of stood there taking it all in while he was mesmerized by the
scenery. A stranger, a man came up behind him, curious about the suitcases, and the man asked all these yells, to which Issy said no. Now, if this he said they were in fact his, the man likely would have left the suitcases alone and the rest of this story might have been completely different. But because if he claimed they weren't his, the man of course opened the suitcase right and inside he found bloody bed sheets. The man yelled out murderer and in response, is he just walked away? Wait,
as is Shakespeare in the park. Yes, okay, he just walks away. Now the police were called and a call for witnesses was put out, and quickly the cab driver stepped forward and said, yeah, I picked up a weird little Japanese guy carrying suitcases, and I picked him up from here in my words, not the cab drivers, but pretty much that's how it went down. Obviously, it didn't take the police long to find Izzy, and just four days later he was arrested. Out he spent two years
in a French prison awaiting trial. During this time he was analyzed by three different psychologists and they all deemed him criminally insane. When is he finally went in front of a French judge to be tried. The judge declared him legally insane and unfit to stand trial. All the charges were dropped and he was to be held indefinitely in a French mental institution. But before his treatment could even begin, the French public went crazy because this monster was being held in
their country and being supported on their dying. Remember this was huge news in Paris Is. He's face plastered all across newspapers and in the media detailing every little nasty piece of his crime. Basically, the French people had spoken. They were not happy about Issy being in their country, so he was deported back to Japan. Right. There's also some background talk about Issy's father stepping in and seriously greasing some palms in order to get his son back. Yeah,
in order to get his son back home. But whatever the case is, he was sent back to Japan, where he was remanded to a mental hospital in Tokyo. Now, Japanese authorities had basically made up their minds that Issy was not criminally insane. He was evil, sure, but not insane.
Instead, they believed he suffered from a personality disorder, and because the charges were dropped in France, Is The's court documents were sealed, including information gathered from the psychiatrist, and therefore the records could not be released to Japanese authorities, so they had no choice but to let Issi Sagawa free, so again without receiving any treatment or help. After just fifteen months in the Tokyo hospital, on August twelfth, nineteen eighty six, Isi Sagawa checked himself out
of the hospital and he's been a free man ever since. Just yeah, oh man, just barely three years time for killing, raping and eating a woman. Sweet lady. Justice must have been on vacation. Talk about injustice, right, And almost as soon as he checked himself out of the hospital, that's when the media started calling. You see, the heinousness of Issy's crimes made international news. Everyone wanted to know who the little Japanese cannibal was
and how he was allowed to go free. So his stature was probably the main of famous too. The fact that he looks probably harmless to a lot of people, right so is he capitalized on his newfound infamy as the Kobe Cannibal. He traveled around doing the lecture circuit and the talk show circuit, mesmerizing audiences with stories about his urges and his crimes, both in great detail.
He's been interviewed countless times and has been featured in numerous documentaries. Some of the documentary titles are Cannibal Superstar and The Cannibal That Walked Free, Excuse Me for Living? And my favorite interview with a cannibal, Excuse Me for Living? As like really funny to me? Fuck, I mean, you can't make this ship up. You know. He's a He's a prolific author. He's written twenty books, a lot of them detailing firsthand his crime crimes.
For a while, he enjoyed, I'll get this the privilege of being a restaurant critic, and he wrote food reviews for a popular Japanese magazine called SPA. I'm guessing vegan restaurants right, Oh, of course I've left some publicity photos from is his time as a foodie in the show notes completely tasteless stuff. Pun a cannibal getting paid to do food reviews. Doesn't it make
it any weirder than that? That is so that is that is a mark of like man, that's like, you can't put that in a fiction setting. No one will believe you. It will be like this is too ridiculous. You can't put you can't put this in that movie, you can't write this in this book. It's too ridiculous. But it happened to no one will believe it exactly. So does it get any weirder? For yes, For of course it does. He was paid to reenact the Little Red riding
Hood story on filming or he played the wolf? Of course? Oh yeah, And I've seen excerts. I've seen excerts from this little film. It's it's horrible. It's just he's in a wolf costume. It's ridiculous. He was paid to eat raw meat on film, the meats, juices, the blood just dripping down his face. Is he? Sagawa even has a short run had a short run as a porn star, and it's reported I haven't seen the films, but it's reported that is he would fake biting his female
co stars while he reenacted scenes from his actual crime. What kind of twisted shit is that? No clue now? In an excellent Vice documentary on Isy Sagawa, they featured a woman that starred in a porn with Izzy and her reaction after she's told and shown. Remember, is he photographed his crimes? After she was told and shown what is he had done by is he himself after they had sex? I mean talk about exploitation. Yeah, this poor
what it was really uncomfortable to see. Yeah, that's that sounds really bad and like it sounds like it. I'm sure it's still done today. But
one of those things that like which is so normalized probably back then. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, Like it's probably like a very common common thing, especially because you go down into the more gray areas of society like pornography, Like, yeah, I both can see it and like it's so fucked up to hear it though, Yeah, yeah, and they show you this poor woman was so clearly shaken and visibly upset for having just fucked a
literal monster, right, And is He's done a lot of art. He claims to have a manager that sells his paintings internationally, and I gotta say he is quite the artist. A lot of his paintings are actually really good. You can find him online check them out. Really an Oscar, You'll like this one. Is He published his own grotesque manga book featuring pictures that he drew of the crimes he committed. Now I did check this out.
It's really gross shit. And of course I left some snippets of is He's manga in the show notes, Oscar, what did you think of the manga? I mean I didn't read any of them, obvious, any buyer or anything. I'm not going to either. Usually manga, I have to I have to like the art style, and I don't like this kind of style. I don't thing. Yeah, so you've seen but you've seen the pictures. Yes, I've seen pictures. Yeah. I mean, I'm not God,
I'm not a fan. But that obviously the material and wait in the fact that you know where the materials from definitely adds to the yes, novelty of it. Absolutely a different kind of pun for you now. Thankfully, eventually, the media hype surrounding the Kobe Cannibal died out, or more like dried up. Is He lost both of his parents in two thousand and five,
which hit him incredibly hard. And after the no natural oh in the same the air wow, yeah, oh wow, Okay, And after their deaths, is he paid off all of his parents' creditors and then he just kind of slipped away into nothingness. In twenty thirteen, he suffered a cerebral infraction which left him with permanent nervous system damage. And today is he's seventy two years old, living alone somewhere in the suburbs of Tokyo, and he's
quite ill. It's reported that he also suffers from diabetes, and that he has had two heart attacks in the year twenty fifteen. Today is he has no job, no friends, no money, hardly any publicity, and the only one that ever shows up anymore is his freaky brother June June and the odd caregiver here and there. He's now basically a man waiting to die. And it's it's really unclear if is he is truly finished with his flesh eating
obsession, even though he is old and quite infirm. I mean, it's highly unlikely he could ever pull something like that off again what he did to Renee, but it's not without wanting. In an article published on all That's Interesting dot Com in August twenty twenty one, so just a few months ago, is he said, quote the desire to eat people becomes so intense in and around June when women start wearing less and showing more skin. Now keep
in mind this is August twenty twenty one. The quote goes on, quote, just today, I saw a girl with a really nice dairy air on my way to the train station. When I see things like that, I think about wanting to eat someone again before I die. What I'm saying is, I can't bear the thought of leaving this life without ever tasting that dairy air that I saw this morning or her thighs. I want to eat them again while I'm alive, so that could at least be satisfied when I die.
End quote. See, there's no shred of remorse here. He's completely he opened and honest. I mean, it makes sense that it's tracks with everything he said before. Yeah, And I guess you got to respect that just a little bit in his honesty. I don't know. I mean I do because I mean, I mean, I'm not saying yeah. It's one of those weird things when people say, like, I agree with anything a bad person does, but like he is, he has never not been forthcoming.
It's so weird. You know, I have to say something positive about that, you know. Yeah, And to this day is he Sagawa has never really shown any significant remorse for killing and eating Renee Heart developed his friend right one time, he did say that the only thing he was really sorry for was not being able to eat Renee while she was actually still alive.
Really, so he wanted to be like more vicious about it, like because the live is you know, it's like when you said before, like, yeah, you know he raped there, but I mean he was it was not clearly actually, so he didn't. I mean, it's raping a corpse, but you know, technically it's not. And there's a big difference. Like I really rather not the victim feel I would rather not them go through
it at all. But you know, it's it wasn't kind of nicer or not nice, but nicer that she didn't feel any of it, you know, thank god. But I mean he wanted her alive though, right, And maybe maybe the fact that they bonded, right, maybe it leads to him not its harder to kill or do something to a live than than death. I don't know. Maybe I think I think to imagining his ultimate thing was to eat living meat, right, living at that flesh still alive.
You know, he never got the ultimate thing he wanted, apparently not high maybe the ultimate bite, the ultimate meal. Mm hmm. Now to his own demise Cicago, Sigago went on record tauntingly, smugly saying, quote, I would like to invite any woman who wants to kill me to step forward, beautiful women only, That would be the ideal way for me to die. Maybe they could shoot me up with morphine so they don't feel any pain. Although I guess pain is part of the pleasure. Dying instantly is boring,
so I want to savor the process of being killed. An alternative would be to drowned in female saliva. Wouldn't it be wonderful to be covered all over in women's spit? If I could die drowning in it, that would be my ultimate dream come true. I'm a cowardly man who killed another person, yet I can't face killing myself, So I guess dying at the hands
of a woman would be my way to redemption. End quote. It kind of sounds like it would be, though, although I would say, then, maybe have a family member of the victim kill him instead of any woman. But whatever, what a weird there's no way to describe it. I mean, he's so like, it's so it's beyond honest. He's like, I fucked up. I should I should revenge should be taken on me. Guys, this is my offer. What who does that? I mean, again, weird kudos I'm giving him. I don't want to. I'm just
saying I don't support this, but damn so weird. And for me, the saddest thing about this whole story, this whole unbelievable story, is that this poor innocent young woman, Renee Hart developed she gets totally lost in the Sawa circus. God, yeah, everyone, every victim like that happens there. Yeah, there's hardly any mention of her online at all, outside of being Issy's victim and the horrendous crime scene photos. There's no mention of her
family, her hopes, her dreams. I can't even begin to imagine what her family went through. Nothing, there's nothing. She's totally overshadowed by this creepy little monster, totally used and thrown away literally for this dickhead's pleasure. That's how she's become. That's her legacy, and it's a fucking shame. Yeah, for sure. Finally, I'll end this episode with yet another quote from Issy himself, telling you this clown is so quotable. He's the Winston
Churchill of cannibals. Cannibals. You know how in chu Jow he's like so quught away He's got like fifty quotes a day about when when he was in power. I'm like, yeah, sorry, yeah, So this quote is from that Vice documentary I mentioned earlier. Quote. Sometimes I wonder why I did such a horrible thing. Maybe it's because I came from another planet or another dimension and I accidentally fell to Earth like a meteorite, disguised as a
baby crying on the street. My mother walked by and took pity on me. I must have come from a place of cannibals, and I'm the only one of my kind who exists on this planet. End quote. Yeah, what do we need to heat? I mean the whole alien thing? Or there you know a place full of cannibals. I mean in nature there are that too, and insects especially other things too. They have been known to doing that. Dude, even like, no, it wasn't no, I
almost got that wrong. I'm glad I didn't mention the animal, But there are others that do that, and they have done that either to survive or because they didn't want the kid. It could be deformed, there's so many reasons why that happens nature, and that's the way he treats it. It's like nature, it really is. And this what makes me feel like it is not so much nurture. It's just that nurture didn't stop it. That's the problem. Nature didn't probably enhanced it accidentally and did not stop it.
Did not know the science, did not imagine this could ever happen. But I feel it's like it's always been nature. So it was born wanting this, like the way you're born gay or you're born whatever, you know, Like it's not a choice, you know. So is there a going on that? No, because I don't have the answer, R But I tend to lean more towards nature as well. But what does that mean? Does that mean there's a fucking cannibal gene? I don't think it works that way.
It works the same way alcoholism can be translke can be genetic, you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't know if this is gene, but we know this is not right, where like alcoholism and family and history can be passed down and can be more susceptible future, right, So like that, I think it's that I think it's that, you know, addiction, but a different type, whatever difference that is between a cannibal and alcohol. This is this guy has the other one into the letter or the former.
What about his brother June? So I mean this goes I mean it's probably fits not more in hand in hand about this this family in general maybe, And you add the repression, and you add the fact that you know, no psychologists until it's way too late and there's no help. There's no talk about it at all because of repression and times and we had all this stuff and probably they were cloistered and sheltered when they shouldn't have been. There's
life is not throwing enough fucking curveballs at him to figure things. I don't know what I'm just saying. It seems like nurture didn't help at all, It's my point. And you know, the life didn't do it for him, and but I mean they still came out like I'm pretty sure June doesn't hurt anybody with his own thing. That's the whole point here is himself. But like it's like I'm sure that if there's a way to do it like honestly and as forthcoming as possible. He will do that. He would approach
a woman and ask, can I eat you for a while? I just he knows that will never happen. Yeah, it's just a weird, honest murderer. Such a strange story, isn't it. Yeah, it's a sad story too, disgusting, sad, strange, all the above. So I want to ask, have you ever thought of eating a person? No? No, I have not. Yeah I haven't either. It's never like a real thing. Would you eat a person? Yeah, so it always comes up, you know when you think about Like I've had girlfriends ask that too,
and when they get weird. My girlfriends get weird. If I were stocked, if I were stuck in a mountain something, would you eat me? I'll be like, yeah, I'm gonna meet you. Things like that, you know, I don't know. Girlfriends ask me the way things. But in general, yeah, you think of the Donner Party, I understand what they went through. You think of that soccer team I think it was or Rugby. Sorry, yeah, I understand. I understand for sure.
There's a there's a few, more than a few. I was the guy who did the Raven stories that that involves cannibalism, you know, as a
labs resort. You know, so it's not uncommon. But like what I in those situations, I would an extreme So in extreme life threatening situations, you would have no problem eating a bit, No problem, I mean I would it would be morally problems, No, it would be problem, but like I have to do it, okay, So you would have a moral objection to it, but you know you have to give this to survive. I'm sure it'll be gross too. Yeah, I can't imagine it. I
mean the way he described him. You know, what's the name? See, this is bad. I forgot a name, Renee, him describing how Renee tasted good and bad. I'm like, yeah, I don't know.
If I make a palette of it, I don't know. I don't think I'll have a review over my crewmate or whatever I'm in whatever situation, but like, yeah, I mean I would eat See for me, I don't know it because I've had friends asked this before, we've played this game before, would you, And I think for me, it would come down to where I'm at in life, Like if I'm an eighty year old man and I got half a foot in the grave, anyway. Hey, I would
lay down and die before eating a person. I'd go to the Pearly Gates with a clear conscience knowing that I didn't eat a motherfucker. I'm safe, right. But if I'm my age now and I have a wife and young kids that you have to go back to and I have to go back to, I would see myself, yes, partaking in Yeah. But don't you think that the Pearly Gates have bylaws to a lot for that in the emergencies. I don't know. I think they would wagh. I mean maybe they
would wait at that point. I don't know. I don't have to do anything. I mean, okay, that's a different question. That would be. That's my thinking as of right now. You know, if I'm if I'm old and I'm dying anyway, I'm going clean. I'm just laying down and die. But if I'm if I got stuff going on, you need to get back to my family, Let's do it. I do it. Yeah. I mean for me, it's like it's about myself. So I
want to live or not. You know, I'm not saying it's fun, but like I want to live, and chances are like in the extreme situations, you would, even if you do it stupidly and you fail, you would do what you can to stay alive. Like any dog, if it's dying, it will defend itself before getting killed. You know. Like it's like that, Like I would kill probably the biggest guy too, so he won't kill me. Well you've really thought about this, No, I'm just
saying that's in this situation. I'm I've always been the smaller budgy your guys, So I'm like, I'm not gonna take chances, but no, big fucking but take him out first, established dominance and eat the most out of one person. There you go. See, I'm trying to save for but I don't have to kill the next person. We'll get saved before the you know. That's saying, gotta think about it. It's interesting. You know, hopefully, God God willing we never have to experience this. Yeah,
you know, it's interesting to think about. It's very right. When people die of thirst and or hunger, it is usually because you're a prisoner of war or in prison of general or whatever, kidnapped in some way, you're shackled by some serial killer or like, or you're on the desert or you're by yourself, or you're destitute. In some fashion, you're by yourself. Though it's rare to be by yourself and starving. I mean it's right to
be with people. Sorry and starving and stuck with people. It's like dinner party situation. Well, you know, it's very you win the lottery before that happens, right, basically what I'm saying. Yeah, Yeah, it's a fun story, interesting story. I like how it short and sweet and not I don't mean that in a punny way. Yeah, it was nice.
I gotta tell you, there was a few times writing this script that I literally got a little sick thinking about how am I gonna phrase this, how Im'm gonna write this, rewriting sentence, you know, about certain things he did, and it kind of made me nauseous. Man. And a few nights ago, we were doing it even though it's ice cold out. I stole barbecue on the back deck and we had a couple different people over,
and I had different cuts of meats on a tray. I had some filets, I had a ribbi, I had some pork chops, and you know, because I can never cook a single fucking meal here at my house, because everyone eats something different. And that's just the kind of guy I am. Make picky. That's very picky, very picky, And that's the type of guy and father I am where I'll make everyone their individual dinner.
So I had this whole tray of meat, you know, the filets and the ribbi still had blood kind of at the bottom of the plate that I had them all on, and I'm tonging them onto the grill. And I did get nauseous looking at that meat and thinking about because I've just been thinking nothing about is he Sigala for the last couple of weeks doing this script. And I did get I made myself nauseous, Like I looked at that meat, and I thought of that picture which you could see in the notes,
the one I called the infernal meal. That's all I can think about, man, And I didn't want to eat it anymore. Yeah, I can understand that. So anyway, listen, a happy holiday, Merry Christmas. Listeners. On that note, have a fun meal with your family. Maybe you want to go vegan this year, I don't know, but not. We hope you enjoyed the episode and we will catch you in the new year. Oh yeah, and the New Years better anyway, on the flip side of this year, I'll see you that Hello, Hello, how are you?
Why are you laughing? I'm still in shock. I'm still in disbelief. Do I look that bad in the morning, my morning? I know you've had a whole day already, but like, goddamn, but dude, I literally think it's been years since I've actually seen you in the sunlight. It's so exaggerating, all right on Halloween, bitch, Oh true, true, sure, yeah, you're right, it does feel that way. I just feel like our friendship is exclusively a night friendship. Yeah, oh yeah.
It's like, uh, it's like, you know, you hear stories. I mean, I'm sure you had these because you're you were delinquent when you have like friends that do drugs a lot, or you're connect with drugs, like you see them you like, you never see them are in school, You'll never see them like in the daytime or with your parents. You're just gonna see those fuckers at night at some house party, right pretty much in the daytime they look like pale versions of themselves. You're a vampire.
H ah okay, oh my god, m hm. So unfortunately again, I'm under a time crunch. I gotta be done for Nico. Yes, yes, of course, let's just get fine, don't do it. Let's get a sip and a vpe mm hmm about my emergency big mug, Christmas smug. That's like huge, Oh dude, if you use the smaller ones, but then I just refill them. But like, no, I don't have to feel all right, let's do this in five recording. Yes, man, Okay, look do I sound gaggy? No? No, no,
you look very vibrant. You look very awake that it's all front lying to me, ready to rape the world. I don't put don't put in the optics beat the world? What could he mean? What is he tendler the world? What's so bad? And word the world? What did he say? Everyone's wonning? Why would he beat that? Why would be you know that's that's that's how that would go. You know, sometimes some things are beat and you're like, what was the bad word in that part?
You know you have noticed that in movies and you're like, what what do you say? Fuck? Was it fuck? It didn't sound like it was fuck? And then like you could tell, I'm like, what was it? What? Did he say fuck? Like, did you say, oh, they say the C word. You're like trying to figure it out. You know what drives me nuts about movies everything? And I want to I want to find out why this is. If people are talking on the phone in movies, they never say goodbye. Did you ever notice that ever?
Yeah, yeah, it's because most of them. It's because most movies ninety percent of movies and American movies are made in LA And you're the way you're talking is that it's midwestern nice. You think you really think that's what it is. I kind of think it is that. So you've noticed this, Oh yeah, they never like I'm always just saying goodbye or if I'm talking to family, love you. First of all, I can show you a good compilation of black of people saying goodbye in on the phone. There's there's
a lot of them. It's just that there's so little compared to the great majority. They don't say goodbye. They just want to get through it. Like it's yeah, I don't know. I don't know why either. It's just just nice. Just they don't even think about it, and they're not nice, Like they don't say goodbye on their phones with their mom and their agents and shit, I guess not. I always meant to google that to
see if there's actually something written about it out there. I did. I did a rewatch of West with the West Wing this year, and that's on HBO. And that's one thing I noticed this time around is that there's a lot of phone calls, you know, a lot of phone scenes all the time. Every episode I think has at least one, if not like more so. And I noticed that they don't say goodbye, and and it's like, but that's even worse than that. They even just cut themselves short.
Sometimes they're like they don't acknowledge that the conversation has ended. The other person just hangs up. Fuck this guy, I'm done with that. It feels like it feels like, all right, you know, because they're so busy and they're trying to save the country, so you know, it just feels like no one says goodbye. Yeah, like we're too important to say goodbye. We're too business. Yeah, burn burning bridges, that's what they're doing. If they did that with me, I'm like, I'm not fucking calling
this guy exactly. This guy, Fuck this guy. Yeah, all right, So I need to get that out there. Yeah, yeah, No, it's a good I like that. It's a good I thought because I thought of it before. I'm with you. COT's with you? Okay, all right? What was that? It's my getting ready? Is you're getting ready? All right? Ready for the countdoign? Yes? Maybe? Well I'm not. Yeah, that's fine. I don't want it. But otherwise, do you think it came out okay? Yeah, I think it wants
something out better. It always happens this way, doesn't it. Maybe we should do that from now on, is actually get together a dry run an episode and then come back the next day and actually record it. Yeah, but that requires actual I mean doing wrong. I love that idea. I do like that idea, but it requires extra time. Actually the whole extra time. That's two days setup, you know, recording, which is again a fine, and I think it is doable. I think it's you and
I were too manic. You know, I'm not very I'm not very what do you call it calendar or that's not the right word. I'm not very organized with my time as much as I want to be. And you don't ever have time or were not ever you know what I mean? Not as much as you would like. It's not as much as you would like. So I think it's possible. I think it's very doable. I think it's
an achievable goal completely. It's just that a it took us a while to get here too, and you even suggest that and be it feels like it'll be hard. But I think we can do it. Okay, let's let's plan for that if you can. Yeah. The other thing I was thinking, what are your thoughts on a new intro bumper music for Patreon of your completely your own creation, my own creation. I'm not like a musician though
to you, I don't know. I don't Maybe you want to, might want to play with it at it, take a crack at it, you crack at it, take a crack at it. It sounds like a drug invented saying, right, like take a crack at it, you do a crack at it and just throws it at crackad and then somehow that that said something that meant something else. Well, just if you you know, see, give you a chance to be creative, do something new for the intro.
Yeah, I just don't, I know, never don't know anything about composition, don't know I mean nothing real about it, but sure like like an intro. You mean, like an actual intro. Yeah, like remember the one you used to do, the the very first intro that we kept for years. Yeah, actually remember came with the number when the Devil gets you know whatever. Do something like that again, something cool like that, just for Patreon. Yeah, okay, I'll go to correct see what you
I mean. If you don't answer, you don't have to. I just no, no, no, I'm just saying. I'm just saying. You know, I'm not an actual music you know,