Episode 149: ZOZO

Welcome to the one hundred and forty ninth episode of the Supernatural Occurrent Studies podcast So Unusually Paranormal. My name is Jason Knight, host of the show, and with me, as always, is the venerable Oscar Spector. That was my drummondes you hear it? Oh? Is that what that was about? You? Spell? Or you had your old bones creaked weird and it hit the table. I don't know produce. No, it is my poor attempt

at a drum roll producer. Extraordinary podcast co the list listeners, If you would like to skip this lovely intro, please go to the show notes. There'll be a time stamp there waiting for you to get you right to the topic. I'll sell it. Although before you skip, though, I would say stay for this particular intro. Yeah, we have some business to take care of, some business, just saying in case hopefully they didn't skip yet,

what were you gonna say? Possibly they probably did. Yeah, they're gonna miss this whole important announcement, So obviously we're releasing this a day late. Listeners, I sincerely apologize. In four or five years since we've been doing this, I've never missed an release ever. Even if I'm on the road on vacation, it always came out. Yes, I think the one time something happened was when we switched hosting companies and there was some technical glitch

and it was like a week that we couldn't published. So we're off by like a week. But in normal times, never missed a fucking episode ever, except for this time. And I was so panicked. I was physically ill because this happened. I believe it. I believe, and then it dawned on me. I can't keep up. We can't keep up with this

every two week release. It just our lives have gone in such directions where there's just not enough time too in some months release four episodes, considering main Feed and Patreon up to the standard that we like to release shows with that in depth research, you know, multi part shows. It's just it's becoming incredibly difficult. I don't want to stop. We're not going to stop, but for the time being, we're going to a one month release schedule,

yes, to kind of see how things go. We may come back to bi weekly releases eventually in the future, but for now we're going to one episode a month. We're going to keep up with our Patreon, it's gonna be a lot easier for us to handle and continue to bring you the type of episodes that you know and love us for. So that's my announcement. A little sad, but it's got to be done. I don't want to I don't want to just slap shit together just to release. That's just not

what we do. So mm hmm. Yeah, it's been it's been a crazy time, you know. And along with that, you know, is that my life is as well. It's kind of changing a bit, so it could be also I don't know yet, but a very good chance of that happening, and it'll change for the better, but for the busier as well. It's coming up very soon. So like, if that does turn out the way I hope it does turn out, and that means I'm gonna be very similar boat, and then not like you, because you work like

a madman. I won't be working quite like you. No one works like you, really, but but definitely closer to you. So yeah, it'll be harder for sure. And you know, and also like holidays are coming, it's like winter is coming, right, that's right. It certainly feels like that when the holidays start coming around. Gear up. The war is about to begin, right, holidays are, and especially with all the shipping problems. Yeah, but hopefully you ordered all that already, guys, because

it's gonna be harder. Yeah, in November, order it November, definitely this month. That's like today we've started pause this episode and get them gifts for your kids and loved ones because you're not gonna maybe maybe really late. I still have some stuff that came in late, like weeks late last year.

Yeah, I came in. It wasn't for like anything, but it was like one thing, but it was still like on you know that sucked does But otherwise you know how you been been okay, been okay, just you know, nothing really new with me over the past quite a few episodes. Work work, work all day long. I mean there is something that you're forgetting. I'm forgetting now. Yes, since our last show there we went through all hollows of youth and you had you had a thing going.

I told you I had something. You had a thing at your place and I was there, So how was that it was? It turned out to be a lot of fun. I think we had like all together, probably thirty people show up, yeah, in and out. It wasn't like calling once yeah, in and out. We drank, We had food, handed out, tons of candy. The front yard looked great with all the decorations. I think our girl who handles our social media accounts, I think she put up some video of of our front yard and the kids and stuff.

But it was a great it wasn't It wasn't you singing that the Italian song? Wasn't I it wasn't you saying pizza pie? And hid right? It wasn't that right because because I was next to you in that one. No, I won't. I won't let her put that one up good. But apparently there's video float around somewhere from what I hear. Yeah, these are the reasons why I really never want to be big. I don't want that being on earthed. No, wouldn't that be funny? No? Terrible,

terrible. Here's your big break. You're making it to the big time in the podcasting world. Wait a minute, what is this a pizza pie? That's a little racist. You can't say that now you dreams are crushed. You're Italian. No, but it was just embarrassing. Normally drunk and embarrassing because you were drunk, dunk I was, I was feeling I was feeling good. It was it was a great time, having ever won together. Some friends that I haven't seen in a long time showed up and it was

great. It was great. Yes, and I wore my uh was plague doctor, plague doctor. That's right, that was fun. I gotta keep the mask on though. Yeah. No, No, you're just like my kids. We spend this money on the Halloween costume, then they go out trick or treating they take a mask off. Well, the difference is that I pay for my own masks, so it's true. No, you just can't wait. I need I'm a guy. Everyone out there should know if you don't already, I need glasses to see. And that mask kind of

prohibits that. Matter of fact, all masks so kind of prohibited for me should be. But that mask was so cool that I had to bring it. It was very nice, like real leather, the whole thing, right. I remember it was still daytime. Uh. My wife looked up and she saw this guy walking down the street. She's like, Jay, look at this fucking weirdo walking down the street, Because who is that? I don't know. She goes, if that's if that's not oscar, we should

call the police, and they wound up being you. Why would you call the police on me? How do I look creepy? Oh? Just the way you're walking with the big plague doctor's mask. You had the cane tap tap tapping down the street. It was creepy. Yeah. I had the neo code that is old. Oh yeah, years old. M hmm, yeah it was. It was a great costume. Me. I was just a big giant glass of beer. Yeah, you were, because that's the kind of suits you get for fat guys. You were like one of those

Simpsons characters, you know how they have a Tough World duff Man. Yeah, no, not the toff Man. There's like one of like those like side characters in the Tough World universe. Were like one. They're all like glasses of beer, but they're all called something. I was like swirly or drunkie or mean, like one of those. Yeah, some jinky off brimed beer. Great, thanks, you're welcome. Well I really thought your costume said duff or wasn't I say something like duff But it didn't. It was

just normal normal. It was totally generic. I didn't even think of duff. I should have thought of that. That would have been cool for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And then obviously the jellow shots. That was good. Yeah, handing jello shouts out to the parents. We went through a ton of jello shots. I think Katie made over one hundred yellow shots and we went through them all. Not no grants, we had a bunch ourselves, but hey, you know, oh yeah we did. I had like

two myself and I was probably the lowest one. Everyone else got like five. Yeah. Yeah, And you know, people would come back like, oh, we remember you guys from last year. We made it a point to stop by see what you guys were up to this time. So that's cool. Neighborhoods, camaraderie, it's together, catching on, it's catching on. Yeah, man, so you're right, that did happen. That was

a lot of fun. Otherwise, it's been pretty normal, you know, like the same old, same old kind of scenario where we don't want to have to explain work, living, trying to relax you in there. On my end, I mean, it could be some fun stuff coming up, but as far as like on me, nothing else really watching a lot of stuff, playing with the girls as usual. Nothing really to report, nothing

supernatural, definitely to report. Yeah, well I might have something on that front, on the supernatural front, but I'll get to that at the very end of this episode. At the very end. Yeah, I'm gonna make We're gonna make you guys wait for it. What kind of fucking teases that bro? The hell? So? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, So that's about it, right, Yes, contact info. I guess so you seem

so reluctant. No, yeah, I just hate the number. The easiest way to contact the Supernatural Occurrence Studies Podcast is by what By visiting our website, Chicago Ghost Podcast dot com. From Chicago Ghost podcast dot com, you'll get to all of our social sites, including Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, and of course Patreon. In case you don't know, we are on Patreon with a full library of episodes that have never been heard before on

this public podcast feed. If you join our Patreon for just five dollars a month, you have access to that library of exclusive content. Go to Patreon dot com, forward slash Supernatural Current Studies Podcast, or just click the Patreon link in this episode show notes. It'll get you right to us. You look like a game show. When I'm doing I'm doing, you're like an orc or conductor. I'm going to conduct all the listeners to go to the

website and check out our new merch shop. We got tons of really cool merchandise up there, including a brand new esoteric collection of goods that have some pretty radical designs that I dare you to try to figure out what they mean. They actually mean something. So head over to our merchandise shop and support your show. Get some Halloween gift or Christmas gifts. Wow, get some esoteric Christmas gifts for your loved one and help support the show. So I

do, Okay, I like esoteric. I like that word word. It's nice. It is, it is. It's very mysterious. Yeah so so, So the following part portion of this introduction is actually false. It is dramaticized, kind of like a like a documentary where they like they take liberties as to the real events because no one was there to take a picture, so like they have to reenact the events right of what happened in real life.

So the following phone number is fake. But here you go eight seven two five two nine zero seven six seven That Chicago area code eight seven to two five two nine zero seven sixty seven. Leave us a message, send us a text. We'll read all in on the phone as a phone. Which reminds me of something. If you were to signal to someone, let's say, wordlessly, to call you or call them, or signal that you want to make a phone call, how would you do with your hands?

I would put my four I would cross my forearms in front of my face like a great big X. Well that's what I would do. No, that's not true. You know what I mean. The universal symbol that I think you're trying to avoid is doing this right? Right? That's what that is? Right, that you're making a phone call. Yes, right, you know what I'm doing? Right? Oh, the thumb and the pinky to your ear and mouth right that the receiver right, and the the mouthpiece,

the mouthpiece. You guys want to know? And have you been watching those things of how they How the kids do it? Now? No, because they grew up not with this, So they do this. Oh I want to slap them. They do this everyone. I don't have to explain what I'm doing. Everyone who listening to us knows exactly what I'm saying. They do this like they're holding an iPhone because they forever the they their entire life. The got used to only this, never this, this is never

for band a phone for them. I never noticed that, but oh my god, if you ask ask your kids, I'm sure maybe they Yeah, I think Talia might like, what is this mean this? Oh god, you might we're old brother. Before we go to break, we did receive a text speaking about the phone number. We did receive a text from my cousin, Shelley. She says she's a friend of the show, longtime listener.

She just wanted to compliment and give us props for the content warning on the Ayoki Kahara Forest episode when we talked about the other content warning go back and listen to it. So she sent us props for that. And she's a tough girl to please, so that I told her, I promise I'm gonna I'm gonna read that on the show. So thank you, Shelly. I thought it was the right thing to do put the content warning that is. Oh boy, how about we go to break? Yeah, that's do

that. I think we needed. Hive four three two listeners, Welcome back to the show. Well, the lights are turned down low. The ceremonial candle is lit and the drinks are flowing. Let's start this show. In case you skipped our lovely intro, I just want to make mention that the Supernatural Occurrence Studies podcast is changing its release format. We're going monthly, So starting in December, we'll be releasing one main feed episode per month, and

that's to continue bringing good, solid content to our listeners. It's good for our schedules. Yes, all right, with that out of the way. So, I don't know if you remember Oscar, but all the way back in episode six when we were, i know, brand new to podcasting and we had no idea what we were doing. I can't remember the last time I thought of the number six, I know, right. In episode six, we covered two topics, the Charlie Charlie Challenge and the Ouiji Board.

The Luigi Board, No, no, no, the Ouiji Board. Oh okay. In episode six we gave some hit on both the Charlie Charlie Challenge and the Wigi Board, and we attempted to do both live on the show. Now, looking back the history portion, the backstory portion, especially concerning the Wigi Board, in my opinion, it wasn't that good. It wasn't up to par with the level of research we do today on the show, and it's frankly something I'd like to visit one day and revisit one day in

the future. But it was fun talking about our own personal experiences with the Wigi board, which by the way, were all true and spoiler We've never had a positive experience using the Wigi board, and the live hands on portion of the episode was interesting. We did have a few strange things happened that night with both the Charlie Charlie challenge and our Wigi board session. In fact, in preparation to record episode six, I insisted we record in my garage

because I didn't want to use the Wigi board in my house. I was honestly afraid of summoning something bad, and I was worried that something would in turn infect my house and my family. You've seen enough horror movies to know better, damn right, So we recorded that episode in my garage. Now, remember it was cold that night, and as I recall it, Oscar, just like me, you also refused to be part of the Ouiji board

session. Do you remember that? Yeah, my mom taught me better, so I was gonna ask you why, So it's just how you were raised stay away from stuff like that. Yeah, well my my my parents funny enough compared to other Hispanic or Mexicans specifically, if you want to be specific families and parents that I've met, they're not at no, no, when you're as superstitious. They're very religious, but they're not superstitious about things like

that. They don't there were they're science. You know, it's not science science. I'm not saying they're like super intesigns either, but I'm just saying that it's not like to them, it really would be probably just a boored But I know enough through the family in general, like why even tempted? Why even why like where it's all all all of the The worst that can happen is nothing. I mean, the best thing that can happen is nothing, and the worst that can happen is insane. And there is no better

version than that. Do it right, might as well not do it? If the best thing is that nothing happens, you know, like you have no gain, there is no rewards, only risk, only risk. Great way to put it, and they never said it to me that way. I don't know. Maybe they did as a kid, and it's just ingrained in me and the memory's gone. Maybe they did, I don't know, but I know that while I know that they do kind of believe in some

supernatural stuff regarding like I don't say energies. They don't say energies. They say, you know, like the remnants of things, the ghosts of things, But like they don't. They certainly didn't instill this in me, but they kind of like did by just their maybe and I just kind of like attune to it, and I just never fuck with them, never fuck with no owiki board. So understood. I'm the exact same way today. I don't want to do it. I don't want to round myself, my house,

my family. I love the way you put it. The best thing that could happen is nothing, and the worst thing that could happen is insane. Is insane, because I could tell you from firsthand experience, I've had crazy shit happen with the Wigi board. Just go back and listen to our stories in episode six. So ultimately that night when we recorded, Joe Eerie and my wife Katie Knight, they stepped up and they did the WIGI session

together and like I said, some weird things did happen. And even my mom, who's also incredibly leary of the Wigi board, she said in on that episode two to kind of oversee the Wuigi portion, she was just trying to protect you guys. I think it wasn't like exactly yeah, yeah, just in case something bad happened. You're the warden warden, yes, yeah. I'm not sure what she would have done had Joe and Katie. Actually,

I feel like she had something though. I feel like she had some some sort of Tannis rude from like Rosemary's Baby ready to go, We're going to fucking pop that demon or whatever. So it should something. We just don't know because it never happened. But I'm pretty sure she had like the spiritual equivalent of a machete or something for whatever came through. Probably No, my mom, you're you're probably right. She's attuned to all that stuff. As he's like, oh yeah, I had this crystal in my back in

my pocket the whole time. Also like a salt gun. And you know how people they gripped their keys, so all the keys coming through the knuckles, so if you have to fight an attack or something like she had the equivalent of that right to go, only Crystal spoke into the knuckles, right, Crystal Love. I hope she's listening to this and cracking up. Yeah, but yeah, I don't know what she would have done if we did contact something better, they contacted something bad, like the entity we're going to

talk about tonight. But she insisted on being there nonetheless, and we were thankful she was there for us. And after everything was said and done and we finished recording, it was really late and Joe Eery he wanted to sleep over, but even before I would let him step foot into the house, I insisted he put that Wigi board back into his truck. Wouldn't let me bring it in. That's how strongly I feel about the Wigi board. I didn't want it in my house, and I sure as hell wasn't gonna do

it in my house. You just never know where you're gonna get with these things, you know. Yeah, I mean I'm a little more lax than you on that specific regard, but I would never have it play in my house. I would definitely never touch it. I will never play with it. But if someone brings it in and I'm not gonna like you men to kick it out. I'll make sure it goes with the person that brought it in on the way out. But like, yeah, I understand you're I

understand what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, And again what we're gonna talk about tonight. This entity, if it's real, it's yet another reason why you have to be incredibly careful when attempting to contact the spirit world, especially in this case, when using the Wigi board. So tonight's episode isn't going

to be a deep dive into the history of the Wigi board. I'm just going to get that out there right away because I'm assuming everyone that listens to this podcast specifically at least knows what the wigi board is, right, It's that popular mystifying oracle, the Talking board. You could literally pick up a

Wiji board at your local Walmart right now for twenty five bucks. You can make your own, though, you can make your own, this is true, yes, which isn't actually probably worse and I talk about this a little bit later in the script. Now, I think the only thing that's worse than making your own, because there's something personal about having your own, like making your own it like it feels like it would imbue even worse drawcomes.

It really does, especially if you take the time to carve it out of like, oh anything like an oak or like a yeah, styrophoam whatever it is. I'm kidding that stirophone. But you know the only thing that's worse than that is if you make an economic conversion of a Wichi board made out of human flesh and the thing is made out of teeth and the fucking letters are in blood. Oh my god, that would be they you should make that. This would be a movie about that. Anyway, continue give it

time. I'm sure there will be But yeah, you can literally go to your local walmout right now buy a Weigi board for twenty five bucks. And funny enough, the box says that the Wiji board is appropriate for ages eight and up. Isn't it something at eight years old you could start contacting spirits and demons. Oh yeah, a lot of people don't believe in right, Yeah. And on the back of the box it says in bold lettering, it's only a game, isn't it. No, Hasbro, I don't think

it's just a game, and you'll sit back bro it is yeah. Oh wow. Hasbro is like the parent company at some other company that actually puts out the board, but Hasbro is the parent company. Okay, but no, I don't think it's just a game. And you'll see why it isn't just a game here shortly now. And I've proven this just to your point, Oscar, you don't need an actual wigi board in plan chet, the heart shaped piece of plastic with a hole in it that glides around the regi

board to do wigi board type shit. I've made a wigi board out of construction paper and a shot glass and it worked. But the physical board and the plan chet is the most common way people attempt to commune with the other side, especially the uninitiated, those who aren't aware of the negative consequences that could come along with using such a device. Anyone used the wigi board at a grammar school sleepover? I know I did a bunch of times. Ever,

See The Exorcist. It's all fun and games until it isn't. All the stories are eerily similar. You make contact with something on a wigi board that initially poses itself as friendly, a deceased loved one, a helpful spirit guide, a child. It draws you in, builds your trust, kind

of gets you addicted and then bam, all held. It's really a gateway drug to paranormal mouthfeasance, you know, paranormal sinning or repercussions, right, because like it's like it's like if like you buy drugs from a drug dealer for the first time in some CD park, but like if something really bad happens to you in the first time, kind of like a Ouiji board session, you never go back immediately, right, you never go back, or that guy mugs you and kills you right then and there, and the equivalent

of drug buying, or you get caught by the cops right aways, and you know, if someone catches you and you get arrested. It's like that, like you're you're it's a gateweight drug. It's like it's like the the smallest, Like the way you would start entering the criminal world is the same way you would start entering the paranormal world with heroin or wigi board, you know, right exactly. Or sure, throw some molly in there too, some zimzams and flim flams. I'll take it all. I don't either,

but yeah, it draws you in, gets you addicted. It pretends it's your friend, it answers questions, and all of a sudden boom, all hell breaks. Suddenly, shit's going crazy in your home. You're seeing things, hearing things, having nightmares, paranoia. Some people even claim that they've become possessed by whatever they conjured up on the Ouiji board. Demons, evil

spirits, negative energy, call it what you like. These things are incredibly hard to get rid of once they get hold of someone, which is why you really have to be careful when you place your fingers on that planchet and begin to ask questions. You just don't know what you're gonna get, and

the consequences could be dire. You could take a page from my book and just not do it, or you could run the risk of using the Ouiji board and accidentally making contact with a relatively new, frightening phenomenon called Zozo or the Zozo demon or the Wigi board demon. Now really quick, I just want to stop right here. The Oigi board for me, has always been a negative thing. I've never had a good encounter with the Wigi board.

But just on the flip side, there's people out there who use the damn thing every single day, and they say it's the most wonderful, positive thing in the world that helps them in their daily lives. It helps them meditate and focus. There's two sides of this coin. My personal experience is it's bad, stay the fuck away from it. But there is an opposite side to that coin. I just wanted to mention that, all right, because I'm sure I'm gonna pis some people out you know, piss people off out

there who have had positive experiences. I never did, so that's my angle, right, Well, what's a positive version of it? Is that like giving you the you know, the investment uh investment predictions or something I can't I can't say one hundred percent because it's never happened to me. But maybe they do. I've never heard of a positive one. Maybe they do, is what I'm trying to say. Ah, yeah, yeah, you know, I've never I'm having I've definitely have everything one Definitely. I have never

read about one. Definitely have never heard of someone who's read about one. I guess until now. You sure you could read up on the Wigia board online and there's forums people saying it's the greatest tool in the world, you know, got it, But for me, it never has been so that's the angle I'm coming at this because it's my personal experience, right right. I just want to get that out there now. Zozo, as I said, is a relatively new phenomenon, but that doesn't make the idea of Zozo,

if real, any less terrifying. And I should clarify by relatively new,

I mean in popularity or more like notoriety. We're talking two thousand and nine, when Zoso appeared on scene, first on a message board, and then in a twenty and sixteen book, and in between two thousand and nine, in twenty sixteen, and since the Internet has taken over as it does, and suddenly Zozo is everywhere wreaking ha it on Ouiji board users think slender Man, right, something born on the Internet and for all intents and purposes,

becomes quote unquote real over time. That's kind of how Zozo is. However, I do want to mention that I found reference to Zozo as far back as over five hundred years ago, way before a book was written about him, and obviously way before the Internet was even a twinkle in someone's dream, which to me is a huge difference between slender Man and Zozo, and something that makes this story that much more frightening. Unlike slender Man, Zoso's

rooted in history. Now today, Zoso could actually go by a few different names, like Zaza, Zo so Zo, os Za, or even Mama or Abacus. Abagus actually makes an appearance in the Book of Revelation under the name Abadon, the king of an army of locusts, or the Destroyer when translated to Greek. Yeah, some of these right away reminds me of movies.

I think mentioning those things Habdon and I've heard Zo also, I think sounds Yeah, there's a rumor there's a really funny story with Zo so z O s O, which I didn't really write into the script, but we could talk about it later if you want. But Zoo has even been described as the simplified name for Pazuzu, the ancient Mesopotamian king of the wind demons and Captain Howdie's true identity. In the movie The Exorcist. You could clearly

see the multiple z's in the name, right, Zozo, Pazuzu. And it's the common in use of the letter Z when the entity names itself on the Wigi board that gives rise to yet another name for this thing the z entity. Most commonly, though, when using the Ouigi board, it's Zozo zo Zo that comes through, and you'll know you got them when the planchet moves back and forth between the letters Z and O z z z z O. If this happens, strap in because you're in for a hell of a

ride now. The unique thing about Zozo is that he overwhelmingly seems to be a Wigi board based entity. There are tons of stories from all over the world of people using the Wigi board and coming into contact with Zozo. There are even isolated reports that Zoso has made an appearance while people were under hypnosis

or they were meditating or attempting automatic writing in altered states of mind. In other words, it's said that even merely mentioning his name Zozo, or even thinking about him, draws the demon's attention, so it's strongly advised not to

even speak or think about him because this is a nasty entity. As the stories go, once contacted, the Zozo entity will be a kind or even friendly spirit, answering questions, solving problems, winning an unsuspecting victim's trust, and then all of a sudden, his real intentions manifest and that's when Zoso jumps off the Wiji board and infects a person's life. In the most extreme cases, it's said that Zoso can possess a person or attach himself to someone

for years, slowly driving his victim mad. Somewhat milder but just as terrifying manifestations of Zozo can induce extreme fear or violent anger in a person. Depression, dark thoughts, sleeplessness and anxiety, paranoia, sleepwalking, strange marks appearing on your body. All of these are side effects of coming into contact with Zozo, the wigiboard demon. He could appear as a menacing shadow figure, he could move objects, and he feeds on fear. The more afraid Zozo's

victim is, the stronger he becomes. And if this isn't bad enough, it's believed that Zozo tries to specifically target those who already suffer from some sort of psychological disorder, suicidal tendencies, depression, stuff like that, which to me makes this thing a predator, A dark, ancient predator whose only goal is to harass and thoroughly torment his victims. A predator that could have always

been but started using Wigi boards to more easily reach into our world. Back when wigi boards became popular during the spiritualist movement in the eighteen forties, and ever since, Zoso has been there waiting for someone to pick up a wigi board and whisper the dangerously vague incantation, Ouiji board, wigi board, please send me a spirit Now we all know it's a toss up as to whether

or not Zoso is real. You either believe or you don't me I honestly do believe that you could pick up some pretty negative stuff when using the wigi board. I think I've made that that clear. That's why I refuse to do it anymore. Could there be a wigi board specific entity out there? Maybe lots of people think so. Maybe, Like it's like like the preferred method of like communication, Like you think of like, oh I do you

have WhatsApp? I rather not use Facebook instead Messenger, you know, like zozos are like, oh no, I really don't know how to use the thought train. I can't do that. I really don't know how to use who's a port keys? No, can't do that. It's not at that a you have a wiki board, you know, it's a method. Yeah, yeah, And they say It's like he was waiting for that ideal method to reach into our world and boom spiritual movement. Spiritualist movement in eighteen forties.

Everyone's got a Oiji board. It's a cool thing to do. That was his his telephone in right, his Zoom meeting into our world. I guess is zoom meaning? And now that we're in you know, twenty twenty one, it's the Internet. Now he's all over the Internet and he's wreaking havoc on people who use wigi boards and then talk about him on the Internet. Crazy creepy, like giving him power. Yeah, kind of. So

a lot of people think this guy exists. One person that believes Zozo is absolutely real, excuse me, is a man named Darren Evans from Oklahoma. Now. Back in two thousand and nine, Darren Evans is the one who started talking about his experience with Zozo on an online forum dedicated to true ghost stories. His posts resonated with people, and tons of stories started pouring in from people all over the world claiming to have made contact with the very same

entity Zozo. In fact, Evan received so many stories that he created a website dedicated to them. I've left a link to that website in this episode show notes, so you could read all these Zozo stories for yourself. There's a ton of them now. Eventually, Evans took the frightening encounters he and his family suffered at the hands of Zozo, along with other people's stories and some additional research, and he published a book in twenty sixteen called The Zozo

Phenomenon. Now, as Evans's stories starts out, it's like a lot of other Zozo stories. It all began on a mysterious Ouiji board that Evans found in a basement. He begins playing with the board and he makes contact with what at first seems like a friendly entity, but then it slowly changed and

became aggressive. When Evan asked the seemingly new entities name the plan, chet moved rapidly back and forth between the letters Z and O. Zozo started spelling out curse words and using aggressive language, and one time it told Evans that it wanted to take his family to Paradise. When Evans asked what paradise was where it was, Zoso spelled out h E L l okay. After Zoso

said he wanted to take the Evans family to paradise. Paradise being hell, Evans was understandably spooted, and he immediately went to check on his wife and his one year old daughter. Now, initially his wife was nowhere to be found, but he found his baby daughter nearly drowned in the overflowing bathtub. His daughter was fine, thank god he got during the nick of time.

But when Evans questioned his wife just what the fuck was she thinking leaving a one year old in a full bathtub, his wife replied that she left the baby alone for just a second and that the tub wasn't anywhere close to being full, much less overflowing when she left the bathroom. She said, for those few seconds, there was hardly any water in tub. That's terrifying.

Evans claims he was physically assaulted by Zozo and that the whole experience caused him to suffer a full on nervous breakdown, and he and his daughter were hospitalized during the whole infernal ordeal with Zoso. Evans for that nervous breakdown and his young daughter for this mysterious respiratory illness that no one could figure out. Evans believes his daughter's ailments were brought on by Zozo. He's going to take him

to Paradise. So the modern stories of Zozo modern being sentce two thousand and nine can be traced back to Darren v his post on a ghost message board in two thousand and nine, his book in twenty sixteen, and the Internet jumping in on it, and the Zoso story in between those years, and the stories continue on the Internet to this day. Just YouTube the word Zozo right. There was even a twenty twelve movie dedicated to the Zoso story called

I Am Zozo. It starred Courtney Foxworthy, Kelly McLaren, and Demetrius Seger. I don't know any of those names. Yeah, I don't know who they are either. Honestly, I thought you sounded like you knew them, Like wow, I was setting up a joke before my time. I'm like, no, who are these people? Well, honestly, I've never seen the movie, but it has a whopping thirty one percent audience score on Rotten Tomatoes and three point three stars out of ten on IMDb. I probably won't

watch this movie anytime soon. Yeah, those two life based on something legendary movies that really sucked on't they? They tend to be horrible. Yeah, they tend to be pretty bad now. The strange thing is, historically, Zoso can be traced back hundreds of years. He's mentioned by name in a book published in the year eighteen sixteen called dicconar Infernal The Infernal Dictionary Ooh Yeah

Right, by French occultist, demonologist and author Jacques Colin de Plancy. In Dictiononar Infernal, Deplancy recounts the story of a young woman in the Piccardi region in France who became possessed by three devils or demons. The demons were named Mimi, sometimes translated as Mama, Capulette, and Zozo. The three devils forced this poor woman to walk down the street on all fours, forwards, backwards, and sometimes straight up on our hands, feet high in the air.

The girl claimed that Mimi would push her forward, Zoso would pull her backwards, and Capulette would have a good old time holding the woman's legs high in the air, and all three together the demons would contort the poor woman's body in these unnatural positions. It's explained in Diccionnar and Farnan that when an exorcism was performed on the demon besieged woman when Zoso was cast out, windows in the church where the exorcism took place exploded. It's pretty creepy, and

that story is over two hundred years old. Another instance of the Zozo demon predating Darren Evans and the mention in dictiononnar and Farnan was an offhanded reference I ran into in a single article which briefly mentioned Saint Bernardino of Sienna making reference

to something called the mass of Zozo. Now I thought this was really interesting because if this article was right, and Saint Bernardino, the Apostle of Italy did in fact mention Zoso, that would place his mention of this specific demon somewhere in the mid fourteen forties, well over five years, five hundred years

before Zoso became popular online. Now really quick, in case you don't know, Saint Bernardino was canonized a Roman Catholic saint in the year fourteen fifty, about six years after he died, and he's venerated as the patron Saint of advertising, communications, compulsive gambling, and respiratory problems. Hey that one right at the end there. Wow. Now, Saint Bernardino's preaching style was incredibly popular as he did it publicly instead of in hushed tones inside of a church

during mass. Interesting, and his public sermons were mainly directed against sorcery, witchcraft, infanticide, gambling, usury, and homosexuality in Jews. Hey, it was a different time, different time. But he really is an interesting historical figure. So when I read that Bernardino made a mention of Zoso over five hundred years ago, I had to find out if it was true. Now, it took me quite a while, but I found it. I found Bernardino's mention of Zoso. It was in the twenty eighth volume of the

Month in Catholic Review, published in eighteen seventy six. Now, this is a five hundred and thirty three page read, and within it is a section

called the Contemporaries of Saint Bernardine Bernardino Bernardine. They use the names interchangeably for the saint, it's called Contemporaries of Saint Bernardine, a section that is mainly concerned with exploring Bernardine's outlook on idolatry, divination, superstitions, and gambling, and how demons are involved in all of these vices to help destroy man's spirit and to separate him from God, and a good point of this section on

Saint Bernardino specifically focuses on the evils of gambling. An old man, Saint Bernardino fucking hated gambling man, ah man, and you have when you have a passion of hate, go for it. You gotta go for it with Gusto. Now, it's in a section that vividly describes the evils of gambling that the mention of Zozo comes in. Bernardino does this amazing job describing what he calls churches of the malignant. How fucking cool is that? Churches?

That's metal or what I take in today's language to be gambling dens. Okay. Bernardino explains that just as God has his church on earth with its masses, rituals, and leaders, so does Lucifer and Lucifer's malignant churches. Churches parallel the Catholic Church in every way, only in opposite and again the Catholic Church. Okay, uh huh. Bernardino explained, as God established his church on earth with our pope as the supreme pontiff, so did Lucifer, who

established himself as the supreme pontiff. Opposite. It's the same but opposite right. Instead of our Catholic cardinals, Lucifer placed into position magistrates and city officers and rulers who had the power to grant exemptions and licenses in favor of blasphemers and evildoers, and who could approve, defend, and leave unpunished those who commit wicked deeds. Owners of gambling dens and taverns are Lucifer's bishops, and

the dens and taverns themselves are the churches. They're filthy rooms. The altars purifying holy incense becomes the sweet smell of cooked meat, meant to lure sinners with the promise of gluttony, which leads to other vices like gambling contained within these malignant churches. According to Bernardino, unlike the Catholic Church, or next to every altar, there's a recept receptacle containing holy oils next to the altars.

In malignant churches, there are receptacles that hold dice. On and on Bernardino goes, making these shocking comparisons the Catholic Church versus Lucifer's malignant churches, his dens of vice. It's when Bernardino juxtaposes the holy Catholic Mass against Lucifer's infernal Mass. That Zoso is mentioned. It's only a brief statement, but

I think it's a powerful statement. Now, Bernardino sets up Zoso by first mentioning that the demons that preside over the infernal mass in the malignant churches are named after various throes of the dice. Remember, this whole thing is about the evils of gambling. He's trying to steer people that he's publicly speaking to away from the sin of game. Yeah, he says, the demons are named Testa, Sabatalio, Sabaalio, sequenta, Spagnolio, reversal names like that.

Immediately after calling out these demons by name, by names of dice throws, Bernardino says, quote, the mass of Zoso is to be the commune omnium daemonium, or the mass of Zoso is to commune with all demons. Now, for me, when Bernardino mentions that Zoso's mass is a communion with all demons, the question I immediately had was, is Bernardino saying that Zoso

isn't one but he's many. I'm guessing here, of course, but can this be the reason why Zoso is found wherever there's a Wuigi board, because he isn't one. He's a legion. So again, it seems that there's some weight behind this Zoso thing. And I gotta tell you, finding the historical references to Zozo wasn't an easy task, especially a Saint Bernardino reference.

I spent a lot of time purposely searching for that. In other words, I don't think Darren Evans just stumbled upon Saint Bernardino's story back in two thousand and nine, read the word Zozo and said, oh yeah, I'm gonna use that to get famous and scare the shit out of people. I don't think it went down like that, right, But that begs the question, what then is Zozo? And of course I don't know. Thankfully I never ran into him when I used to use the Wiji board back in my careless

days. Right. But if you do, lucky, very lucky. But if you do run into this thing, there are some rules you should follow to protect yourself. First and foremost, don't show fear of Zoso. Remember, he feeds off of your fear. The more you're afraid, the stronger he becomes. If you run into Zoso during a wigi board session, Stay calm and immediately and firmly announce that you want to end the wigi board session,

and then move the plan chet to goodbye. This should effectively close the session and sever ties with Zozo. Once you properly end the session, wrap the plant chet and the wiji board separately in cloth and store them both away separately if possible. If you have to store them together, like in a box, the cloth wrapping ensures the plan chet and wuigiboard will not touch one another, eliminating the possibility of accidentally forming a new connection without you knowing about

it. Right. Some people even go so far as to sprinkle holy water or rose water over the board and plant chet, or allowing burning sage smoke to wash over the items before wrapping and storing the board and the plant chet. With this stuff, a little extra precaution never hurts right. Once the board and the plant chet are properly stored, you could cleanse the area where

where you were using the weedy board where you made contact. Most people burn sage to cleanse, but you could lay sea salt down in the area and leave it sit for a few days too. Also reciting a prayer won't hurt, and our father or hell Mary should help with the cleansing. Once all this is complete, leave the board alone for a while, don't use it. Rules aren't too specific about how long you should leave it alone, but

the idea is look at that game never. The idea is the longer the board sits unused, the weaker any lingering spiritual connections become until they're gone completely. Now, if you feel the need to totally totally get rid of your Wiji board like Zozo freaked you out so much that you absolutely do not want that board in your home, one thing you could do is give the board

away. Giving the board away is supposed to immediately sever the connection you had with the hostile spirit like Zozo, and instead the spirit will become attached to the board's new owner. Kind of a dick move, but hey, better you than me, Better you than me. It's like a very anti Househarman gift. Oh, that's awesome, right. Others say that the Wuigi board and chet and plantchet should be wrapped separately in cloth, placed into a hole,

covered completely with sea salt, and buried. But whatever you do, do not burn, cut up, or break up the board. Doing This is supposed to immediately release the negative spirit into the environment, and you don't want that, especially with Zozo. I've even heard that throwing the damn thing into the ocean is a good way to dispose of a wigi board. And of course these are just some precautions you can take properly using a wigi board.

Ending a session and disposing of a wigi board, it's kind of like building a house. There are many different ways to do it. Right now, before I close, there is something that happened to me while I was researching and scripting this episode. This is the thing. It was just two nights ago, around two am. I had just found the Saint Bernardino Zoso reference and I was totally absorbed in the story as told in that month in

Catholic Review Volume twenty eight. I mentioned a little earlier, right, I was reading about Lucifer and demons and the malignant churches and of course Zozo. When all of a sudden, I get an alert on my phone that movement was detected in my garage. Now again, it's two in the morning, and inside my garage is pitch black. I have a blink camera mounted out there in the garage and something triggered that camera, and that was the message

I received on my phone. Right sure enough, I checked the recording, and there's this weird little orb that appears out of nowhere. It kind of starts out by the man door leading into my house, just a few feet from where I was sitting in my office reading about Zozo actually, and it moves kind of slowly right towards my camera and then it disappears. Now, I know what people are gonna say, orbs whatever. Probably a bug.

I could tell you. It was in the thirties that night, a little warmer in my garage, sure, but it was still really cold in my garage, and inside the garage was pitch black. There's no way a bug would be around. First of all, I haven't seen any bugs since mid October yet, alone a bug large enough to trip my camera in complete darkness. People might say, well, maybe it was a dust particle. I've been involved in the paranormal for over twenty years. I've taken thousands of photos

and countless hours of video. I know what dust looks like, and this wasn't a piece of dust. Now, I'll leave a link in the show notes to this video you guys check it out and tell us what you think. Contact at Chicago ghostspodcast dot com. I just found it ironic and a little more than scary that this happened, considering the subject matter I was absorbed in at that moment. Was Zozo the one that tripped my camera? After all, it's said that even thinking about Zozo could draw us attention, and

that night I definitely had Zozo on the mind. And who knows, maybe I just cursed all of you by bringing Zoso to your attention while repeating his name over and over during this episode. I don't know, listeners, but if that's the case, I'm sorry. Kind of reminds you of Lullaby there at the end. How So, remember the Chuck Palinook book The Lullaby. If you think of the Lullaby, or if you say it out loud or you tell someone about it, they die. Yes, Yes, I love

that. I love Chuck Pallinook. He's one of my favorite authors. Yeah, right, Hopefully I just didn't sentence all you guys to some horrible treatment by a demon. Yes, but that's Zozo, man, I mean, it's it's a wild story. What did it for me was were the old references to this guy. Yeah, I know, I like that a lot. I also like the connection a possible connection. Yes, yes, uh

you know disease are there? You know? Zozo short? It is amazingly simplified a lot of those when you go back to the root words or the creation to certain words or or phrases or languages, like it comes from such a long time ago and you just shortened things usually or it's whatever been passed down or history like it gets like it's like when you play a game of I forget the name of it, but it's weren't like in a group of friends, you like, you tell one person something and that person tells the

other person in their ear and it sounds completely different. Yeah, we call the mon the telephone game or the game The Simpsons called it Purple Monkey dishwasher. Sure, yes that way, Yeah right, tabo game. I forgot the name of it. It's like that, you know, over the centuries of languages evolving and evolving makes sense to me? Why how I mean, I'm just saying, I'm saying it's true, but I'm saying, and may it would make sense how bezuza could be zoso? Yeah, it does.

Yeah. And if that's the case, then this thing is thousands of years old, possibly maybe infinite. What's kazo, you said, what is the Mesopotamian Mesopotamian King of the wind Demons? The wind demons that's old, that ship that's older than all current religions. Yeah, that's you're right. It's a bull shit. It's scary, man. Yeah. And then there are stories that say, uh, the boy who Reggie McNeil was based on in the movie The Actress, is the actual story that it was Zoso who got

him the Enfield poltergeist. Those those young girls were playing with the Ouiji board when all hell fucking broke loose in their house. I mean they say it was in that case too. Maybe he's the realtor or the travel agent for all these other entities to find and mad people, you know what I'm saying, Like, oh, they called me, we have another winner a day. Uh Satan, do you want No, I don't want this one. Okay, let's go to the next demon. Do you want this kid?

Yeah? Sure I'm not. You know, like right, he's like the the intermediary between all other beliefs, you know, And maybe that's what Bernardina was talking about when he said that when you commune the Zozo mass, right, the massive Zozo, you commune with all demons. When you participate in the mass of Zozo. Maybe that's what he's doing. Man, I don't

know. It's a weird it's a weird story because if you call fox, if you go back far enough, the origins to a lot of these things, especially beliefs, come from one place, or from one group of people, from one something. You know. I'm not saying this is that. I'm just saying that this could be one of those original originators to a lot of other things, right, it could be one of the original sources. I'm sure there's a further back version that we don't know about, but this

is where the buck stops as far as our knowledge. Yeah, it's kind of fun to think about. Not that hopefully it's not real. I mean, hopefully it's real in a cool set, in a cool way, but hopefully it's not real in the sense that I don't. I don't want people possessed and fucked up. I don't. I definitely don't want you to curse me or give me something by mentioning his name to me. But it sounds

cool. Yeah, yeah, it's or how with the diction ar Inferno where one of the deals, so it was Zozo and then it was also mimi sometimes translated to mama, m A m A. Today people say Zozo is represented on the Ouiji board by m A m A m A m mama, mama, mama. So there's a connection there too in a way. Yes, that's besides specifically calling in that story, right, and and how many people thought they were just talking about someone the mom right right, my mom

mom? Way, how did we noticed that? I'm did I call my mom mama? That's crazy in reality? Though in reality, right, they're saying crazy, it's crazy, so weird the only so, I guess I should mention it because we kind of talked about it during the middle of the script. There Zo so z O s oh, so if you researched Zoo, there's this whole theory that led Zeppelin and Zozo are uh huh connected. Okay, if you look at if you look at the cover of led Zeppelin

four, that album technically doesn't have a name. It's just referred to as led Zeppelin four. I think they just he just named it. Yeah, but I guess. Technically the title of the album is just a series of symbols for each member of led Zeppelin, and Jimmy Page's symbol is this arcane and maybe I should put a picture of this in the show notes. I gotta make a mental note to do that. Jimmy Page's symbol is this arcane design that spells out zoso, z O s o. Zoso became zozo,

Zozo became Zoso. Okay, so people are like, oh my god, led Zeppelin and Zoso, that's the same thing, and they started this and blah blah blah. What it is is Jimmy Page is his astrological sign. His son sign is Capricorn, and Capricorn is ruled by the planet by the planet Saturn. So Jimmy Page wanted to put some cool logo together to represent himself. You know, all the members of led Zeppelin did that for led Zeppelin for his cover. You could go take a look at it. I'll

put it in the show notes. Fuck it, I'll put it in the show Okay. So technically it doesn't even spell out zoso, or it's not supposed to spell out zoso. When you take the sigil, a sigil for Capricorn and Saturn, and you put them together, it looks like Zoso, but it's technically two separate sigils. He just swushed them together because it looked cool, right, It's just accidental, accidental, and then suddenly it became Zoso and vice versa. But so it's not true. They don't they're not

Zozo, they don't worship Zoso. No connection there. It's their way to happen, guys, not highway to Hell. Dude. I almost feel we should end on that. That was sweet like that I did, so I got to make a note put in now if you told me A C D C had ah, and then I'll be like, okay, that's something you know now I believe now those fuckers then those beliefs. Yeah, so that's all. That's all I got really, But yeah, that's cool. Did you enjoy this I did? That's fun. Yeah. I like that stuff.

I like the history stuff. Yeah, absolutely again, listeners, check the show notes. My my Strange video will be in there. I'll put the led Zeppelin four cover in there so you can see Jimmy Page's symbol. Uh, and don't forget we are going monthly, so we will see you in December for Patreon members. We'll see you this month as well, though, Thank you. Oscar. Yeah, Oscar, please hobble us home, hobble away. I saw a movie yesterday that really knocked my socks off.

It was just so much fun. I saw a movie called I Know Who Killed Me? Have you heard of that? I Know Who Killed Me? I think I've heard of it. You might have heard of it. Yeah, I know I heard of it, But last I heard of it was the year it came out, which is like two thousand and six. I think it was during the Lindsay Lohan was a Lindzada movie that was like completely bombed that. It made no money. It made like a million dollars or something, not even you know, but I remember that. I remember the

post or things like that, like from back then Killed Me? Okay, and I saw it. I rented it and I saw it because I you know, I heard a podcast talking positively about it, and I was like, Okay, I'll check it out. I never never se it, missed it that year and didn't care whatever. No one ever talks about it. It had has a three percent on Ryan Tomatoes. Holy shit, three percent. Yeah, So I saw it, thinking like maybe it's not three percent. I think what movie really is not many? And like I can't be

that bad for four stars. It's amazing. It's so really, I know it is fantastic. It is fantastic much. It has so much style it be hard for you to find it though. I couldn't even pirated. I couldn't do anything yet. Wow, I had to rent the writings. I know who killed me doing anything because it's not streaming anywhere, and I wonder if it's just people who because like everyone hates Lindsay Lahan, right, like yeah, that was that was the year. That was roughly the year they

started really hating her. And it's probably why it's got a little riding. Yeah that's what. That's what. That's what the podcasts were talking about, like, yeah, that movie got a bad rap and they were talking so positively about the movies by positive review and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna watch it. And I finally did yesterday, and I'm like, I was so I wasn't just surprised that it wasn't bad, but then it was

that good, Like it was so much fun to watch. It's not like I mean, it's not like super serious, like Signs of the Lambs horror serious, but it's like more like it follows good, you know, like it's like fun. It's cool premise. I mean, you don't see that often anymore, that kind of premise, even back then. And I'm not gonna ruin anything there. And she's pretty solid in the fucking role, and the Syraculler's fucking crazy and kind of unique. Yeah. Good stuff, Yeah,

some good stuff. Yeah. So I saw that and I saw something for the first time. I saw all three Black Christmases. How are they? They're all good in different ways, except for the last one. I didn't like the last one, the last one meaning from twenty nineteen, and they're all remixed. They're all remixed. None of the more sequels, you know, Oh I see, Yeah, they're all we made. The first one's from seventy four. And that was a fun movie. That was a

fun weird movie. Really, yeah, it was a fun, little weird movie. A lot of pel v of a of a faceless of the faces serial killer talking to himself, which is kind of creepy and fun, and a lot of different types of cooky characters. But my favorite one is from the two thousand and four or whatever, and that movie is so much fun, a lot of eye horror. I feel like eyeball horror. It's just like fifty eyeballs fucking dying in that movie. So much fun. That one

starts off right away. That was the most fun one I had. It was just like right away action packed horror, like fucking crazy death, death, death, death, that's death. That's that's so much fun. I like that movie too, And that movie also get bombed, so so yeah, watching a lot of that shit. Yeah, I haven't watched any horror lately, but we we started watching Dune. Oh man, man, it's really good so far, right, Like I really like, I don't know shit about any of it, but me either, I didn't know much.

But I saw the original, the David Lynch movie, but I never read the book. I see. Yeah, it mean we didn't finish because it's like fucking three hours. We're watching it with the kids, so like fifty yeah. Yeah, so we pause it maybe with an hour and something left. But that was really good so far, and then I'm glad you like it. Jason Mamoulo is so good in that he's such a Yeah, he's good he's good. I don't know what happens to him. He's still running

around saying people. I'm saying he's he's in the first half of the movie you saw. So he's very characterstic, he's very cool. Nice. Yeah. That And then we watched a movie called I think it's called Ida Red Aida like the name Ida. Yeah, it's like with Josh Hartnett. Is it new or is it it's new? I know he's trying to come back. Yeah, Josh Hartnett and William forsythe isn't it? It was really good. Yeah, I'm just here. Oh he's like in prison or something.

Maybe. I don't know. No, I just saw like a quick thing and I see him with a the conjugal visit with a follow in his hand. I don't know. Hed a red walker me not survive her terminal illness, incarcerated for robery. There you go. She turns to also is a guy who there's a girl who is there. She turns to his son Wiet for one last job. And oh, that's sounds cool. It was, It was good. It was a good, good movie. Oh, Frank Grillo, isn't it that's the other one. Frank Grillo yeah, everywhere.

Now he's been everywhere for a while. Actually, I'm looking at the director. I haven't seen any of his other movies. He looks like a he looks like he owns a you can see his face, it's all his face is like all white. Oh sorry, he just looks like he's like a bartender and a bistro. So it's like an action movie. Is it cool? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, it was cool. Well, just where did you see it? Where is it that? We rented it on Amazon? Part? Oh you rented it like money but money? Yeah, yeah,

I saw that Edgar Wright's latest movie, which one is it? Last night and saw how oh oh yeah that was good. I liked it. I very like that. I like that. We just reviewed it. Actually it's coming out on Wednesday. Yeah, yeah, we review it. We both liked it. And uh so, man, it's a it's a trippy movie. It looks like it. It looks like it. It's uh, it's not time to tell, but it almost is. You know, it's

not a revenge movie, but it almost is. It feels like one, but it's much more about this girl in her particular abilities to see the past. And it's really weird and not expect that any of that at all, doesn't She kind of bounce back between press. Yeah, Katie and Talia went to see it. They said it was good. Yeah, oh good. Katie took Talia to see it. Mm hmm. I'm surprised, pretty bloody is She seemed pretty much all all it already. I mean, it'll teach

you a lot about, you know, staying away from guys. I'll tell you that that might benefit a lot of like it's not like has anti man energy, but like it has a lot of like, uh, you know, careful out there in the streets, bro kind of energy, Like I don't just trust anyone. I want to check it out. They wanted a mommy and daughter date, so she's Katie's like, do you mind if I take her to see it without you? Like, no, go ahead, You'd be like, I mind, but I'll catch the next one. That's

right. Just bring me home some movie popcorn? Did they? Yeah? The only oh they did the big bag. They so they so they buy it after right after the movie, Yeah, on the way out, because I'm used to so I'm I'm so used to going on the late showing. So everything's closed, oh after you know, so I would never, like, if you had ever asked me, I could never buy it. I'd have to buy it as I'm like before I watched the movie, and I don't know how much of it will last. Right, it was supposed to

be a five pound bag. Yeah, no, it's not five pounds, but I mean it's not. It feels like it is. I don't buy them believe it looks like it. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how much it is. But I literally brought my own chocolates to my to the to the theater for that movie. I never buy anything there. I rarely do. What else? Oh my god? You like this one? I was I met not met someone because I haven't met met her yet

or or at all, honestly. Uh, there's this girl on tender that we started chatting and she's roughly looked a little younger than me, in like thirty four and pretty cute, not like smoking hot, which is which which I wouldn't believe honestly, So thank god she looks normal and I just want to trust someone that's super hargh, like, why are you talking to me some gym rat or stop you know editing your pictures? And we started talking and they were like, O can we talk on Instagram? Instagram? Is

it's either Instagram or another one. I forgot the other one, Snapchat, snapchatre. There are different red flags depend on where they ask you to because you always start talking at the Tinder wrap. But no one wants to stay on there and talk. No one wants to hook up or get to know someone there. Nothing. I mean unless they're like weird or yes, but no one stays on there. It always starts like oh, you know, with the initial stuff and they're like, oh can you can we talk over

here? And stead I'm like okay. So if it's there are different right red flags. If it's if it's a WhatsApp type or kick red flag, the red flag there is in my in my experience is that it is like a fake account or someone that's cat fishing. Probably do it in Thailand asking for money. That's what that probably is. If it's Snapchat, they're hookers,

but they're trying to They're probably not in your area. They're probably from California and they're trying to sell their pictures, oh their premium account or whatever. You know. If if it's Instagram, Instagram is a little better. They still can't do all that stuff. It could still be fake, It could still be all this stuff. But most likely what it is is that the bad version, the red flag for Instagram is that they just want followers on Instagram. Oh, I see, you know, it's weird. It's

a weird ecosystem. It's not it's not eco. It's not enough to consider it an ecosystem. But if you call it that, sure. So I went on there, you know, obviously didn't worry, and we started talking. We talked for like, uh an evening or two like it wasn't like straight, but it wasn't, you know, And until she said to me,

like she mentioned her fucking model cam account. Uh oh, Like I'm not right immediately, but I saw, I mean because at that point I was already like following her on Instagram, so like I was seeing her. She didn't look like he looked like a regular person. Honestly, she looked like a regular girl, like a single girl. She didn't look like she had a family anything. For sure. She definitely looked she lived alone, but she it didn't seem like fishing for anything or trying to charge something.

None of it was that kind of no, no tags to regard that. No. No, Like I'm an accountant, which is a secret for a whore or a cook. I was trying to sell something. All that accountant means that if you see accountants anywhere, like I'm an accountant, they're not an accountant like a real accountant. They're like that means they charged for their body or whatever. Yeah, I got fool for that for one second. I won account The first time I read that, I was like, what

does that have to do with it? I don't give a ship. And then I looked it up. I'm like, oh, okay, well shit, okay, cool skip. So she dropped that knowledge, right, She's like, oh, yeah, it costs this much obviously, and like it's a private thing, and you know that's the only way I can meet people if they're verified through here. I'm like, I'm not gonna do it. I'm not gonna pay full out seeing you first. Good, Like, that

doesn't make sense to me. I would never do that. But at the same time, though, I guess we were having a pleasant enough chat where she's like, we can still talk. I don't. I don't care until you want to decide whether or not you want to ever do it, But I like talking to yourself. We can still talk. I'm like, that's weird, but okay, I don't care what shit I'm up at night. So we still talk every once in a while, not really often, like not yesterday, not today, but the day before. I did. Wow,

that's interesting, and just just chatting. She's clearly alone here. She talks. She talks about her family a little bit here and there, like they lives somewhere else my mother state. I'm like, what are you doing over here? Then? Is she in Chicago? Yeah, she's in a a suburb I remember anymore? Sorry, she told me. I just remember, huh yeah, in the South. And I overall don't trust anyone from Lombard. No Lombard, No Lombard is A is A. I mean,

what do you know of Lombard? To me, everything that everything about Lombard looks like it's successful. I don't know anything. You used to live by lot Allle and Lombard are like not exactly brothers, but they're like nearby, right are they? I don't I don't know. Could be. I feel like to get to the city, you would pass by Lombard. I don't know. I don't know if I've ever been there or known anyone who've been there or from there, anyone that says that it from Lombard, most likely

they are strippers or something. For the fucking god sort of fucking nine times out of ten, my dude, they're trying to do something or get away with something like Jesus, shut up, get away from me. I'm like, I'm pretty, I'm lonely, but I'm not that lonely. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna now. I don't know why with Lombard sometimes Joliet, but not so much. That's wild. I'm so glad I'm not dating in this new world. I wouldn't be able to handle it. Yep,

yep. Hopefully I could be one Take Jay and you know, put in an intro and an out Who is that? All I've known is ten Take Jay and lately. I hope I'm not going to be like that tonight. I'm sure it's fun. The Supernatural Current Studies podcast is going monthly, going forward for the foreseeable future. For seeable future, let's start a word. Wait what happened to one? Take one? Take j Ye Okay five four three two, Oh that hurt to actually say that we're going monthly. Yeah,

I can see that. I was no joke. I was a fucking wreck over this today. No, I I imagine that you were. I don't have to You don't ever have to tell me that you are to know for a fact, you know. And last night I kind of I pretty much finished around like one ish, one thirty. Maybe, Yeah, I end up adding more today, So I'm glad I waited, but I contemplated, like, do I contact do we just do this now? But you said you were having a rough day at work, you wanted to kill everybody.

I never heard from you, so I just I didn't want to bother you. But I didn't know you were waiting for my for me to say something back, because I would have responded. I just didn't know for sure how I'll went for you. No, I think your last message was I'll let you know. I was like, oh, what time do you want to record? Like, I'll let you know? Work is crazy, I want to kill everybody. I thought I have responded to that. I guess I don't think so unless I missed. It's it's possible that's my fault.

I have a really bad text. It's okay, but I just when you were said you wanted to kill everybody, I'm like, yeah, I'll just leave him alone tonight. Yeah, no, I murdered a few people. Stress believer. What you got there, my friend, I'm taking the last of my peanut butter meat. Oh sad empty. I would kill for some peanut butter meat right now. You don't have any. I think I have Viking, but I can't drink anyway because I'm gonna be talking. So that's

sorry. Oh but you drank and talked before, You're right, I'll be back. Wow, that took nothing your horrible influence Oscar, right, because I've had it and it was terrible. Oh have you ever I mean off you know left field Katie is have you seen the latest Paranormal Activity and know they made a new one? Yes? Yes I did. Sorry, next, I didn't know they made a new one until like recently. That's right.

I did watch that movie and we we liked it. Over it's like the best made because you mean, because of right holiday like the money, right, the money was there they had cool. I mean they're all very low a bunch of movies anyway, so they're meant to be Yeah, This was definitely I think the best produced or film made. Whatever. Does it have anything to do with the paranormal activity world, I don't fucking get it.

If it does, I think that's someone who even remembers the plot anymore, right, like really though, I mean, I'm like, I can't remember for the life and I was into those movies as much as you were, I think back then, right, Yeah, there were a year were huge movies. The first one, the first two three. I saw the first three in theaters, and after I stopped watching them in theaters and I would to watch them here and there. But there's been like four others.

I'm like, I messed like two or three of them because I know I've seen, Like I saw the Mexican Family one. That's the last one I saw. That's the last one I saw. I think there's another one in between the latest one and that one. I think there is, yes, yeah, And I don't know if they even follow any plot anymore. I don't think so. I think someone paid a lot of money for the name and they're like, guys, we gotta do something with this name. Let's

get a movie out there. Yeah, you know, it's it's pretty easy to think of something relating to the carav first three or two or whatever you would think you would you has nothing to do with that storyline at all, nothing, nothing at all. Yeah, because I like watching, you know, like what series, especially like dumb series to just do background watch. And I've seen I mean in recent in the last four years, I've seen the Freddy Krugers, I've seen the Jason's, I've seen the Halloweens, I've

seen the Health Raisers. I've seen the seen a lot of them already. And I don't want to go to a Leprechaun, so I want to go to I'd rather go to maybe Paranormal Activity might be a fun one. I saw the Finals Estimations, which are a lot of fun. Do the Chuckies and then the Chuck TV series. It's not it's not too bad. Oh it's not? Is it? Is it? Al Raady? I mean it's on I don't know if it's FX or it's on one of those channels. Oh do you hear about Why the Last Man? Mm? Hm? Did

you hear about a show called Why the Last Man? No? No, have you heard of Why the Last Man? Has a property? Oh? Okay, Well then maybe you won't get the hype. But uh, there's awesome, super great comic book series American comic series called Why the Last Man? Why the Letter? Why not? Like why is this? Uh? Why the Last Man is a it's a post apocalyptic not really, I guess.

It is uh thing where like everyone with a Y chromosome for some reason dies, So every man on Earth dies, every single man, including chimpanzees, all male champs, things like that, like any why chromosome organism gets killed for some reason. So only the woman, right, that's over and except for one person, one immune man, Why the Last Man? And it's about you know, his exploits living in this now newly day one, a post apocalyptic world scenario, and it's a very cool concept. I never

finished. It's a done it's a done comic book. It made a lot of issues, but it's done. It's like Walking Dead. It's not not as long as Walking Dead. It's like half of that, I guess, but it's still pretty long. And but it's done. And I read of it. I read like the first four volumes and ship it was amazing. And they made a show on either FX or I think it's effects. It is okay. And her great things about it. He was made so well it kind of has a different take on it and all this stuff, and

like, really it sounds better. And then they got canceled right away because because it's too much of a reminder of pandemic. Are you serious? Well that's well no, they didn't say it like that, but no one was really watching this awesome show because it was too much like the heart, the harrowing nature of I mean, it's bad timing basically, Damn that sucks, all right, so I won't even start it then, I mean, yeah, well you mean because it doesn't end right. Yeah, I still want

to see it though, but it does suck though. Wow, Yeah, I didn't see I didn't get to see one episode either, because it's on Hulu, right who effects on Hulu? But I need to once I get a little more money, when I'm more secure about it, I'll get my own Hula account with commercials, because I can't deal with commercials. I haven't watched so many shows in movies because I was your shows because of that for that reason only. Yeah. Yeah, it's just so annoying. I find

it so unbearably annoying. I'm like, how did I deal with this day and day out. In the nineties and the early two thoughts, I don't know how I dealt with that. We gives we had to, I guess, but sometimes nice I would like to make sure that I want to see that, make sure that podcasting is still kind of fun for you, so it is well, you know, I don't want to see I mean right now, it's I mean not that podcasting is fun. I mean the research is, but you're worried about the time for it. I get it.

But still it's part of the same thing. Without one, there is no other. Maybe now that we have maybe a little more time, not to say that we should take advantage of crazy. Maybe once in a while we could still do some movie reviews, because that requires just nothing but watching a movie, and you watch this week. Maybe we could do that more a little more, right, not for the show, maybe for my show, but just for the fun of it. You know, it could be for

your show, and it could be a bonus release for Patriot. I'm saying. I'm not saying we don't have to not married to it, but every once, you know, or or semi whatever, we still do some of that too. I'm totally down for it that watch parties. You know, maybe I can finally join you on Twitch. You know, stuff like that. I'm all down for. It's just the endless hours of research. Mhm's. It just it got to me. Man, it's not totally so I'm into it so far. I didn't think I was gonna like it. Man,

Yeah, but I was hooked right away. Javier depart dem Yavier being why you gave him extra letter? I don't know that's funny. I think you think there you go nice. But his character was great for you know, five minutes you saw the five minutes you see him, man, yeah, you know he's you see him again later on Cool. But he's like he spits on the floor and everyone's like, motherfucker right, and he's like, oh no, he's exchanging. That's a big deal in the moisture right

right. But he's like, that's quinde of Cool. I'm done talking though, I have nothing or whatever you said. Yeah, it was hilarious, it was great, It was good. Yes, yeah, let me know when you finish it, and well we'll set up some time if you want some evening when you're not when it's all cool and show you have to do too much, and maybe we'll do something. We'll bang something out. It would be cool man for sure. Yeah, yeah, thank you for getting

together with me this last minute like this. Yeah, yesterday recorded, We're off tomorrow. I'm gonna finish recording with him. Okay, oh you guys do it in two settings usually. No, we were gonna do it yes, so we were gonna do it all yesterday. But he couldn't see the last duel until today. M hm okay, well yeah he had. We had to wait on. Have you seen the what is the Gambler? The car Counter? Have you seen it? Man? I know you well, yeah, the car Counter? Was it good? I saw yesterday? Funny

enough you mentioned that I saw it yesterday. Really did you enjoy it? I did enjoy it. But it's not at all like, it's not at all about gambling. Not to say that there isn't card playing or chard counting. There is that, but it is by far. It's not like, it's not the Hustler of card counting. It's not the it's not the I'm trying to think of a good poker movie. It's not Rounders like that movie. I know you like that movie. It's not those kind of movies,

you know. I mean, it's in it, it's a part of it, for sure, but it's a beat plot compared to like what's going on for sure. The main character is it's I mean, if anything we took we did, we talked about kind of what it's about a little bit in one of our shows. It's about Oscar as the places. Obviously his card counter who in prison taught himself hot our card count count cards, sorry, and and do kind of tricks with it, I guess, not magician style,

but like just know the cards, you know. And he meets his boy, or this boy meets Timily in this police expo where he's know whatever for some casino, and they get like, it's not about them too. It is about them too, but it isn't like a friendship. It isn't like, oh my god, is he gonna stay. No, it's it's

like it's no more serious, not no more complicated. But you find out that the history of this guy, this Carho Oscar Isaac, is that he used to be he went to prison because he was a soldier in the early two thousands in the uh in the war against Iraq and Afghanistan and all that, and he was one of the soldiers that was photographed torturing people in about

Gray prison. Oh no way, yeah, And we just talked about Abu Gray with the with the uh abutbar, and so erandomed me of that, and they show them some some graphic stuff for sure about his like like flashback to that. I mean that came out of nowhere. I mean Jesus Christ, Yeah, for sure. Like when it him up, I like, what is this? What am I watching? I'm like oh, And then I put it together, I'm like, holy shit, he wasn't part of that, yeah, Like and that everyone who got photographed went to prison to

show face, to say face for all the higher ups. But obviously anyone who wasn't photographed but still responsible did not go to prison. And I guess that's the that's where it gets like, oh, okay, the story is about this now, so it has been about that. It's not a true

story, right, this is no. I don't think so. Maybe it is and in parts, but it's all fiction as far as I'm Yeah, the guy who wrote it did, uh you know the right And the only reason that starts because the writer director, I forget his name though, which I shouldn't forget. He wrote some pretty prominent filmmaking books, like books about film and critiquing or the Eye of Film or making movies. That's like you teach it in class kind of show. Like a pretty prominent guy. And

he famously wrote Taxi Driver, Oh shit, he wrote Taxi Driver. That's the writer of Taxi Driver. Oh wow. And and also other scorsesey stuff he co wrote with them, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. But yeah, he's famous for that and for me for making my top ten movies of the decade. A few years ago, he did a movie called with Ethan Hawk where he plays a priest. First Reformed, Oh he did that movie. I love that movie. That movie. Oh

it almost scares me. How insane that movie goes. First Reform written it down, Huscar. But it's not horrible. It's it's just a drama. It's such a good drama. Man, that ending. I beg you not to like. Oh, do this immediately. Okay. First Reformed? Okay, so I know who killed me? And First Reformed? Oh yes, that's two very opposite movies. But yes, watch them. Well I've been the better that's okay. They're not. They don't. They definitely have diminished.

But it's the cable that's sucking me up. Like I have to keep an eye on it. It'll just stop working, it will just stop charging. I'm like, fuck you, I woke up, I charged it overnight, right when I go to bed, I wake up and it's even halfway through. I'm like to go to work. Then you know, yeah, your your day is not going to be a good day, right, I know the first one you said, brother, first world pros. All right? Sorry, now are you ready for real? Yeah? Yeah, let

me get another hit in a drink water. Then you're not ready.