Episode 147: Shag Harbour UFO Incident

Welcome to the one hundred and forty seventh episode of the Supernatural Occurrence Studies podcast So Unusually Paranormal. My name is Jason Knight, host of the show, and with me as always is Sir Oscar Spector. I just got knighted producer, extraordinary podcast co host. Thank you for bequeathing us your presence, Surspector. Yeah, the queen is a bitch though, just sorry. Now, the tea was a little too hot in my opinion. It's just my opinion, okay, but united me, it was cool, very nice, very

nice. Uh. Listeners, If you would like to skip our intros, please go to the show notes. You'll find a time stamp there waiting for you to get you right to the topic. Oscar, what has been going on with you these last two weeks? Nothing too crazy, nothing too much to report. Been preparing for Halloween. Halloween season, guys. That means it means you start saving on your electric bill by taking down the AC units in my case, three of them and getting ready for the nice pockets of

the cold winter months coming up. I love the winter. I love cold. Give it to me anyway. Other than that, you know, I have a little pumpkin thing for the girls, the kind of shit you know, car pumpkins and they can hang in them and shed and they love that ship. And in that Halloween aspect, I've been looking online to see if I can get a good a good version, like a solid version of the Squid Game costume two for Halloween, which is an obvious choice, granted,

but we're not. You know, it seems like it's easy enough to replicate. And there's a lot of shops out there since the since the show has been popping up. It's in everyone's feeds. It's on TikTok a lot, it's on Facebook and everything. And it's a fun show and I really like it. I keep hearing about it. I keep hearing about it. I haven't watched it yet. I have to get it into my queue to watch. Yeah, right exactly. And it's a and it's a it's a very

strange concept. It is South Korean the show, but it's a weird concept. But it takes uh the ideas of games that you know, gen gen xers millennials and older played as kids, like with marbles, so you or a tug of war or shit like that, and maybe it or tag you know, you think of those games and you put it to its extreme measure, right and too in this situation where people are are forced to play this

game and the losers get killed. Basically it's a real life and death situation and they all do it for for hopefully redemption via money anyway, So it's a it's a fun, fun show. I'm not finished with the yet, i should say, but I'm almost done with it. It's a lot of fun going back to the old days. Yeah, I definitely want to check it out. So you're saying it's all over TikTok this show, it's everywhere. It's quid right now, right now, it's kind of everywhere. Yeah,

all right, I'm a little behind, but I will. I will catch up and let you know what I think. Yeah, I do. Just not know what about you? What you've been up to? Oh man, just just work. There's there's literally nothing interesting on my front. The last couple I don't it feels like months. Well, if you listen to the outtakes, folks, he did see a very particular movie that has taken

up his mental brain capacity lately. But it's a ready in the outtakes, So just wait for that, but yeah, yeah, because my blood pressure just spiked when you mentioned that movie. I don't even mention it. You don't have to. Yeah, works, and it's it's a really strange thing. So, I mean, I'm now in in sales. I have a kind of a really high profile sales job, and no one's talking about it. But we are in the middle of a global supply chain crisis that's affecting

not only my industry, but so many other countless industries. It is a horizontal problem that's happening in the world right now, and no one's talking about it. It's not not in mainstream news media, social otherwise, no one's talking about it. But yet it is completely disrupting the global economy. And so I've just been for the last I don't know, it seems like a year at this point, if not damn near close to just dealing with the fallout of that day in day out, and it it just beats me to

death. It's it's bad. It's bad. I'm doing okay financially, thank god, but hm, it's just it's bad. And as it progresses, I'm really starting to be convinced that there's something greater going on here. Especially how it's not being covered. So that's that's just been taking up so much of my time is dealing with the fallout of that at my company. So yeah, I can see that. I can probably see Steven Soderberg make a movie about it in five years or something. He does that a lot.

Yeah, And by the way, it's affected in my industry. For those who remember, I work at a Starbucks. So like if you frequent Starbucks and you realize that, hey, they've been out of peppermint or toping not or very very high biscus for like months now, I consistently this is part of the same thing, yeah, that we're talking about. Yeah, yep,

I think everywhere. Yeah, because if it's not coming from overseas, if it's if it's here in the States, there's issues with transportation, be it boats coming here from other countries, to trains, to trucks, to longshoremen, to customs, you name it, it is affected. And yeah, you'll feel it. And something as silly as a drink, you know, your favorite drink exactly, syrup in this case or whatever. I vape, right, I quit smoke and I started vaping. I dropped my vape

and I busted the tip that was on the vape. Right, I'm like, shit, I gotta go to the store by one of these things. Couldn't find it because they're coming from most of them come from China. Yeah they do, They're not here. Can they find them anywhere? Yeah, a stupid tip for your vape. This what I'm saying, it's happening. It's affecting us. Try to order a computer, an appliance, a brand new car. Cardboard paper is going to become a problem, they're saying,

consumer electronics. Try to order it, backlogged, back ordered. You know, it's it's it's a big, big, big problem. And again, no one's talking about it. And I'm starting to think there's something more to it, a conspiracy somewhere, but I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole. Point is that's what's been taking up all my time. So I don't have anything super cool to report. I'm sorry, No, that is that is a report. That is a good report. You already did it.

You just don't have anything else. But that's well, there you go. No I don't, I don't have anything else. I'm sorry, I got it. No, it's good. I like it. Maybe another short intro this time, I don't know no such thing. Now, let's not get people used to the last one. Okay, just saying okay, I like long interest. So but with that in mind, you should really tell them how they can get in contact with us. With that in mind,

it up. The easiest way to contact the Supernatural occurren Studies Podcast is by visiting our website. Our brand new website, by the way, Oscar, I don't know if you've checked it out, completely revamped, much more mobile, user friendly. Got a lot of complaints about trying to access the site via smart devices. You could do that now Chicago Ghost Podcast dot com.

That's Chicago Ghost podcast dot com. From the website, you get to all of our social accounts, be it Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, and of course Patreon. And in case you didn't know, for just five dollars a month, you could have access to a library of exclusive Patreon audio and video content. This content that won't appear here in our public feed.

It's just for our patrons. If you go to Patreon dot com, forward slash Supernatural Occurrent Studies Podcast can pledge your support for the show have access to that library of exclusive content. What do you say, support your favorite podcast, Yeah to the do something now. Luckily, luckily, you know, this is the part, you know, the one bad one great thing about

not great thing. But the one thing that isn't affected by with the shortages that Jay we was just talking about is that, you know, websites of the Internet that's still very much strong. You know, yes, it's like that's no, there's no shortage of Internet. You know, that's not ever going to be a problem. But luckily though for all of us involved, especially for those people who might be I don't know, willing to try their phone out as a phone, is that the phone lines are down there.

There's less phone lines out there, and we had to we had to mix our phone number. Do you know, I was wondering, where's he going with this? Now? We had to cut back on our very crappy, unprofessional leads to a drug dealer through Idaho Way phone number that we that we spew here on the show because reasons, you know, reasons, we got them right, you know, it's you just reminded me that I don't have the phone number anywhere on the new website. I've got to correct that.

Fuck, I can't believe I did that yet take the web designer. So the number he's talking about that'll get you to a drug dealer via Idaho is Chicago area code eight seven to two five two nine zero seven six seven. That Chicago area code eight seven to two five two nine zero seven six seven. But don't use that until more more phone cables get brought from overseas.

There they have to dredge the oceans right with these cables. Yeah, while you're waiting for that to happen, you could watch The Many Saints of nork Oscar. Let's take a break in Yeah, let's take a break. I hate it so much, listeners, welcome back to the show. Well, the lights are turned down low, the ceremonial candle is lit, and the drinks are flowing. Let's start this show. So tonight we're gonna be talking about the Shag Harbor Ufo incident. Shag Baby, Yeah, did you just

pull out Austin Powers Dad? I was, yeah, yeah, the Shag Harbor Ufo incident. And I really believe that after researching you know, this this topic so thorough, I really believe something something happened here. This I think is one of those cases that we could say Yes, this was unidentifiable. Something really happened here in this tiny, tiny fishing village up in Canada.

It's pretty amazing. And I love that we're covering this incident now because the fifty fourth anniversary of the shag Harbor Ufo incident just passed on October fourth, so we're recording this on the sixth, so it's timely. Yeah, it is. So I'm curious to know at the end, once I spell all this out, what people think. Did something really happen here? Because I think it did, and if it did, the implications are huge.

Okay, So the shag Harbor Ufo incident took place on the night of October fourth, nineteen sixty seven, around eleven pm near, like I said, small fishing village called you guessed it, shag Harbor on Nova Scotia's Atlantic coast. Now, you don't hear a lot about this case, which is kind of why I wanted to cover it. Maybe because it happened outside the US, as in case you didn't know, Nova Scotia is part of Canada,

or maybe because it didn't happen in a densely populated city. After all, Nova Scotia is Canada's second smallest province in area, right after Prince Edward Island. Whatever the fact is, the shag Harbor UFO incident, which was really a crash and attempted retrieval of an unknown object, did happen, and it's

often referred to as the Canadian roswell. And at the time, again in nineteen sixty seven, the UFO case we're about to talk about was huge news, having at the very least sixty eyewitness accounts, one of which we'll hear later in this episode. Now, Oscar, we have an eyewitness interview made for us for this episode, conducted by a close friend of the show with ties to Shag Harbor, which is really cool. That is cool. I have not listened to it yet, folks, by the way, but you

will. First. Yeah, not only did the shag Harbor UFO incident have ton of eyewitnesses, including airline pilots, military personnel, and police officers, the case was also investigated by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police the RCMP, the Canadian Coast Guard, which had only been formed a few years prior to this incident in nineteen sixty two. It was investigated by the Canadian Navy and the Canadian Air Force, and it was even investigated by the United States via the

Condon Committee. And of course all the official investigation led to a lot of official documents. And that's the one thing Shag Harbor UFO isn't short on documentation. This case has a paper trail a mile long. And the attempted UFO recovery was even broadcast across Canada on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation's Evening News. That's something you don't see every day. Wow, Yeah, especially when you compare

it to our Rothwell. You know, Nova Scotia and Rothwell are both notable known to be like middle of nowhere areas obviously one really hot and one really cold, but like similar similar, similar kind of like location types and like you can see where like oh man, it might be hard to get when it says but no, that's that's that's that's crazy that they did. I'll just say it sounds like a better job of telling people like that hiding at you know, trying to Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, yeah, I

mean what happened after what happened at Roswell, Right. We talked about this in the The Extraterrestrial Extravaganza podcast episodes. A report came out that a disc was down, and then immediately that was retracted and it was sealed, the lid put on it right not here, This was on the evening news,

which is which is really pretty interesting. Now, what I think is really interesting is the fact that it was the officials that labeled this thing a UFO, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the Canadian Air Force, the Canadian Navy, NORRAD, the Coast Guard, and not the civilian witnesses. The civilian witnesses all thought a small doomed airplane went down in shad Harbor, but not the Brass. The Brass honestly thought they had seen and were searching for a

downed extraterrestrial craft. It said so in their reports, And I think that leads a lot of credibility to this story. Yeah, it does right. In fact, thirty six hours after the event, several Canadian Defense Department officials signed off on a memo that made it clear that authorities had no idea what they were dealing with. The memo read, in part quote, A preliminary investigation has been carried out by the Rescue Coordination Center in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

It has been determined that this UFO sighting was not caused by a flare, float, aircraft or in fact any known object end quote. Pretty cool, right for the officials to come out and say that, actually, the Shag Harbor incident is one of the very few instances in which government officials formally declared that an unidentified flying object was involved. In other words, no official explanation was ever given to try and explain away the incredible events that took place

on October fourth, nineteen sixty seven at Shack Harbor. Now, I just want to take a little quick sidestep here and talk briefly about something I mentioned as far as official bodies that investigated this incident, The Condon Committee, Now, in case you don't know, the Condon Committee was a US Air Force sponsored program that ran from nineteen sixty six to nineteen sixty eight, headed by

physicist Edward Condon. The purpose of the Condon Committee was to investigate UFO sidings and determine whether UFOs were quote unquote a problem that warranted continued government sponsored research,

like the research being conducted by Project Blue Book. Now, the final report published by the Condon Committee, called the Condon Report stated that after investigating hundreds of case files of supposed UFO activity and UFO sightings files mainly provided by Project Blue Book and civilian UFO organizations like the National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomenon or NIGHTCAP, the Condo Report concluded that UFOs were not a problem, that

most UFO reports were totally explained, totally explainable, and that studying UFOs would yield no scientific benefit. And that was the Condom Report's determination on what the report called Case number thirty four, the Shag Harbor Incident two. The report provided absolutely no explanation for the Shag Harbor incident. In other words, move along, nothing to see here, and no reason to explore any further this particular incident. In other words, the Condo Report really a poo pooed the

idea of UFOs and little green visitors from other worlds. And Project Blue Book was quickly disbanded after the Condom Report was published. Or was it. Listen to Supernatural Currencities podcast episodes sixteen and one seventeen to find out more about Project Blue Book. Yeah, and also I mentioned then we talk about Nightcap. When we talked about Skinwalker. I feel like we did. I feel like I did. Or was it in the extravagance of what we mentioned Nightcap because

I remember researching that and I remember content being one of the names. It might have been in the Extraterrestrial series, Okay, because I thought it wasn't the other one. But okay, maybe right, okay, but maybe because you know, the Condon Report basically poo pooed on UFOs and aliens, maybe this is the real reason why shag Harbor incident kind of faded away because the Condon Report basically shot it down. Anyway, this investigative body, the Condon

Committee, was involved in the Shag Harbor UFO incident. So again, big news when it happened, right, This incident captured the attention of high level organizations, right And actually, in twenty nineteen, the World Canadian Mint issued this rectangular glowing and the dark image changing pure silver coin commemorating the Shag Harbor UFO Wow popular. Right again, this coin is awesome. I gotta get

me one. But ye anyway, okay, let's get into it. So what exactly happened on the night of October fourth, nineteen sixty seven that Cord took such a fuss at high level organizations. Well, to begin with, we must start with the sightings reported all over Eastern Canada before the actual crash

in Shag Harbor. A fishing boat stationed off the coast of Sambro, Nova Scotia, called the m V Nickerson, with eighteen people on board, tracked on radar four strange objects or blips in the North Atlantic for over two hours up until about an hour and a half before the Shag Harbor crash. And so you know, Sambro is about a three hour car ride from Shag Harbor,

or about one hundred and forty seven auticle miles. The fishermen also saw four bright lights in the sky arranged what they described as a rectangular pattern. The captain of m V Nickerson, named Captain Leo Mercy, was so moved by this incident that he felt compelled to file a report with the harbor Master and the Royal Mounted Police. Numerous civilians witnessed objects in the sky up and down the Nova Scotia coast, prompting them to file panic reports mere hours before

the crash. And we'll get into a few witness testimonies here in a bit, but like I mentioned earlier, we have an interview with one of those witnesses, a man named Norman Smith, a name mentioned in a lot of the articles you'll read about the Shag Harbor incident. So we have a fishing boat with eighteen people on board, witnessing strange things in the sky and in

the ocean on radar, and we're going to talk about civilian sightings. Now, I'd like to talk a little bit about some amazing sightings reported by highly trained pilots who were fortunate enough to find themselves in the air and around Shag Harbor on the night of October third, nineteen sixty seven, and on the night of October fourth, nineteen sixty seven, the night of the crash.

First, I'd like to talk about pan Am Flight one sixty, a Boeing seven oh seven cargo aircraft that was approaching Yarmouth, Nova, Scotia, about forty four driving miles or thirty eight nautical miles from Shag Harbor and flying at thirty three thousand feet on the night of October third, nineteen sixty seven.

So, the night before the UFO crash, all was routine and going well with Flight one sixty, when Suddenly, co pilot Ralph Lowinger, Captain Kurt Olsen, and flight engineer Mike Littlepage saw what they described as a huge formation of bright lights at their eleven o'clock position as they approached the coast of Nova Scotia over the Gulf of which is really close to Shag Harbor. It's the same body of water. The pilots described the object as looking like a cruise

ship. It's pretty damn big wow. Yeah. Trying to rationalize away what they were seeing, the pilots thought the object could have been another large transport plane displaying full lights, and Flight one sixty's path was taking them straight towards this object. The pilots felt the immediate need to steer Flight one sixty out of the other object's path to avoid collision, which they did not. Understanding what the hell was going on, The pilots contacted Boston Air Traffic Control and

asked if their flight was still visible on Boston's radar. Boston confirmed that Flight one sixty was visible on radar, to which the pilots replied, who's up here with us at our eleven o'clock. Boston went silent for a moment, then came back and confirmed that Flight one sixty was completely alone. No other aircraft was anywhere near the flight. That must created oh in that moment when they're like, you're alone out there, but what But yet they're looking at

this massive cruise ship looking thing fully lit. Dude, I hate flying as it is. I can't even imagine what's going through their minds at this point. Oh yeah. For me, I'm like excited, you're you're a living are Yeah. So Boston comes and says, Nope, you're up there alone. Yet the pilots were watching this cruise ship looking thing hovering up there with them, and eventually the strange lights disappeared. All three men on board Flight

one sixty agreed to not file a report. They wanted to avoid the paperwork and the hassle and the stigma of reporting something like this. And this is a decision that Ralph Loinger says he regrets to this day. He wished he

would have filed a report. Okay, Now, a few days after this strange encounter and the sky's over Nova Scotia, Ralph Loinger was listening to the radio and he heard a new report say quote the RCMP or the Royal Canadian Mounted Police has discontinued search operations for the strange light formations reporting falling into the sea near Yarmouth end quote. Wow, now longer realized immediately that this had to be the same light formation he and his fellow airman saw in the sky

on the evening of October third, and in the exact same location. To quote Ralph Loinger quote, to this day, I do not know what I saw, but it is clear that it was under intelligent control and coincided as to time and place with what was seen by at least sixty people on the ground end quote, referring to, of course, the crash at Shag Harbor. Pretty amazing. Very Now let's talk about Air Canada Flight three h five.

This event happened on the night of October fourth, just about fourish hours before the crash at Shag Harbor. So at around seven pm on October fourth, nineteen sixty seven, two pilots aboard Air Canada Flight three oh five were flying westbound over Shearbrook and Saint John, Quebec when suddenly a strange object appeared to the port side of their aircraft. The pilots claimed the unknown object was on a parallel course with their flight path, and it was tracking them through

the skies. Now, in their official reports, First Officer Robert Ralph and Captain Pierre Charboneau described the object as a brilliantly lit rectangular object with the string of smaller lights trailing the object. Now keep in mind the rectangular shaped object witnessed by these pilots. Hearkens back to what the fishermen aboard the m VY

Nickerson described a rectangular object. Ralph and Charbonneaux claimed to have noticed a sizeable silent explosion near the large object, and two minutes later they saw a second explosion which faded into a blue cloud around that same object. It seems whatever the pilots were witnessing was in trouble. Now, these explosions, especially the bluish color attributed to the second explosion, is going to be really important here

a little later in this story. So we have some incredible events happening in the sky all around Shag Harbor leading up to the crash. We have similar descriptions of the objects, We have explosions, and we have official reports being filed by frightened or maybe more like concerned and confused witnesses. Credible witnesses too. Now it's time to take a look at what's happening on the ground at

ground zero, if you will. Now. The initial report came just before the crash on the night of October fourth, when a witness named Laurie Wickens, a seventeen year old Shag Harbor resident, along with three or four friends. Reports differ on how many people were with. Wickens were driving through Shag Harbor on Highway three when they all saw an object about the size of a

bus slowly descending towards Shag Harbor towards the water. Wickens said the object had four lights arranged in a row, and they were going on and off. One light would come on, then light number two, then three, and then four, and then they'd all go off for a second and come back

on again in that one, two, three, four pattern. Wickens and his friends watched as the object suddenly dipped to a forty five degree angle and fell below the tree line, and at the same time, the friends heard a whistling sound and then a loud bang like an explosion, just like the pilots on Air Canada flight three h five reported a few hours earlier. Now, listeners, please go to the show notes. I have a picture supposedly of this UFO coming in for its watery landing on Shag Harbor. It's in

the notes for you to see. The picture shows the UFO whatever it was, descending or falling towards Shag Harbor, towards that water. Now what's really strange is the object looks like a huge fiery blue orb accompanied by another object that looks like this big red diamond. Now, what I think is really coincidental with this picture is this blue orb looking looking object. Remember what the pilots on Air Canada flight three h five said. They said that when they

saw two explosions, the second resulted in this big blue cloud. The picture I have in the show notes shows what certainly could be a big blue cloud heading right towards the water. Is it a damaged aircraft to some kind? Anyway? Check it out. Let us know what you think. It's pretty amazing photo. That's that's insane. I haven't seen it either, obviously, but I can't wait to see it. That was very hard to get that

photo. Can't find that photo anywhere. What I did is I was watching a documentary about the Shag Harbor UFO incident, and they put the photo in the documentary, so it wouldn't let me. Amazon doesn't let you screenshot movies, so I had to take a picture of my phone and then uploaded that. It's very difficult to find, but I got it. So listeners check it out. That's cool. It just lends more credibility to the story. It really does. Okay, back to Lori Wickens, thinking they were witnessing

a deadly plane crash. Remember I said in the beginning, civilian witnesses. They didn't claim this was a UFO. They literally thought it was a aircraft, one of ours of human making coming in for a crash. Something normal, something normal exactly. So, thinking they were witnessing a deadly plane crash, Wickens ran to a payphone and called the r CMP right the Royal Canadian Mounted Police the Mounties. At first, the police thought Wickens was drunk and

making a prank call, so they ignored him. But because multiple other reports were coming in describing an object in the sky close to Shag Harbor, the

police decided to check it out. One of the responding officers, our CMP, Constable Ron Pound, witnessed the strange light himself as he drove down the highway en route to Shag Harbor. Wickens and about a dozen other people, including three Mounties Police Constable Ron Pound being one of them, stood at the water's edge and watched in amazement as an orange sphere with lights on it, again described as being about the size of a bus or about forty to fifty

forty to sixty feet across, bobbed up and down in Shag Harbor, about three hundred yards from where they were stationed on shore. Where they stood on shore, and at about eleven twenty pm, the mysterious object slipped soundlessly below

the surface and that was it. The UFO was gone. Now. Another civilian witness named Norman Smith was driving home to his father's house in Shag Harbor when he too witnessed the lights in the sky that seemed to be heading straight down towards the water, and shortly thereafter Smith passed flashing police cars also heading towards the harbor. Now intrigued, Smith went home, He roused up his father, and the two men, along with one of Smith's friends, headed

down towards towards the harbor to see what all the commotion was about. Now here's where I'd like to play the interview we have because ultimately, Norman Smith, this guy jumps in a boat and head straight out to where the UFO submerged. I think his gusta already. Yeah right now, I think that's pretty crazy. I don't know if I would do that. I think I

would be afraid to do that. But you know that if I'm at the four of us were there, Let's say Dave and Joe, we I mean you'd stay on the shore, but we would all all three of us will go go ahead. I'm good, Yeah, text me as you're road away right, text me now. My friend, we'll call him, John R. Whose family owns an island north of shad Harbor called Goodwin's Island. They actually own an island up there, interviewed Norman Smith for us for this podcast.

So a huge thank you to John for providing the interview for this episode. And towards the end of the interview, Norman Swift, Norman Smith actually gives me a shout out. He uses my real he uses my real name, so you're gonna hear it. But still, how cool is that? Now? This is this video, this interview, it's a video interview. So I think we'll put the video on Patreon so our patrons could see Norman Smith tell his story. Okay, cool listeners, don't miss out. Join

our Patreon so you too could see this first hand account. A link to our Patreon is in the show notes. Anyway, let's hear Norman Smith describe what he witnessed that night in nineteenth In October nineteen sixty seven, Oscar, could we play the interview? Yes? So, what's your name, Norman Smith? Norman Smith? And where were you at nineteen sixty seven when I guess something hit the water? What hit the water? Where were you at?

Well? When I when I first seen it, David Kendrick and I a friend of mine, was coming from Cape Island and we lived in Shag Arbor at the time, and we see this thing in the over top of

the trees. The lights. The first light looked like a full moon, and the next light was like that, and smaller and smaller till the last morning on the tail end was like the size of the light bulb, and it was pointing at the ground and it was stopped, and we thought it was a plane going away from us, and we could see the lights on it like going straight away. You couldn't tell whether it was moving or not. So we pulled over the side the highway and I got out. I

couldn't hear nothing, you couldn't see nothing, like a total quiet. Yeah, total choiet. Got Mosquito wan't afford him. He held my video here. Anyway, We pulled over the side of the highway and I got out, and David said, Jesus, get back in the car. Let's go home and get your father and then follow it out on the lawn so they can see it. We we had to drive but another two kilometers from when we got to my father's place. I ran the house, got him.

He come out, and then Lawrence lived, my uncle lived on the in the next house, ran next door and got him. We all stood outside the mountains. Was coming sirens. We could hear the sirens coming from Barrington. And we followed the mounties up to the crash site there in jery Garboro, and it came down out of the sky and it landed on the water. Did land in the water, on top of it on the on the

water on top of the water. Sat there. Well, yeah, you could still see the lights, and we watched it for Lake well, there was sixteen of us and two out of the sixteen, two of them were police officers. They seen it, and after we watched it for probably five minutes, two to five minutes, it was just sayings, you snapped the switch and the lights went out, and we never said another thing. Did you see the sun back up in the sky or did it just lights went

out and the thing disappeared. The lights just disappeared. Wow. We didn't see nothing after that. Wow. So we called the coast guard. The coast guard was on. Clark said, but then and called the coast guard and they came up. We went got in two fishing boats and we went out. This was like ten thirty at night when it with search lights looking for wreckage because we figured it was a plane that could come down in the water. And it was between bom Portage Island, which is like two miles

long, and it was between bom Portage Island and the mainland. And we went in. When we searched all night long, I never found nothing. We owned family, Our family owned Goodwin's Island. It was it right around Goodwin's Island. Goodwin's Island is above that, a little bit north of that. Yeah, did you believe in UFOs before that? Never? Do you believe in UFOs now? Oh? Yeah, I'd love to see one again. I like to see the same thing that I see that night. How

big was the object? Well in the scullion look like the bigness of a big plane, big jetline? Was it like long or was it like circular? Could you tell where the lights or circular? And then when it was in the water all you could see was lights. You couldn't see no object gift below you see. Wow, that's a freaking incredible story. But I can't believe you're extra there to see it. So this is going to Randy Talker and say hello to Randy and Jason. Are you Randy and Jason and

tell him you're not nuts? And I'm not nuts, So you guys to say that. Thanks Norman. Yeah, what a cool story by Norman. And I love his accent. And I'll tell you, Norman Smith, he looks just like how you would expect a kind, tough, old Canadian raised by the sea to look like. And what do I mean by that?

Don't know? Join our Patreon to find out. And I know before we played the interview, I said he mentioned my last name, and we're going to hear it, but I think Oscar and Post we decided to bleep out that that last name correct, correct, and you just had a chance magic of editing to watch that video. Finally, what did you think? What

did you think of Norman Smith's story? It's a cool story at it feels like I've both an all timer's story, and because it's about his youth, and you know, it tells a story about seeing the lights and then and then deciding to go to get his father back and then to see the lights with him, It's like becomes like a moment, like a family moment to

share, you know. And I like how he I guess a lot of that time of him seeing the lights and trying to intercept the lights, you know, when they landed on the water, that he wanted to to maybe help because he thought it was like human, like a human aircraft. He thought that maybe something crashed and wanted to see if there's wreckage and whatnot. And obviously he never found anything, like he said, but like it was dark. It must have been really pitch black out there. I can't imagine

doing that in a searchlight. But man, it was such a cool story, and I like how he described it and some of the words. He mentioned something before I didn't know what that word meant, but you know, some colloquialism, I'm sure. Yeah, it was a cool story, nice, very unique to have that for the show. I'm very grateful for that. Now, getting back to the to the overall story, one of the

Mounties the police who witnessed the UFO bobbing in the water. He called for a coastguard cutter, a rescue shit in other words, and so that cutter was on site, along with a few fishing boats that were already in the

area, and a search began. What was described as a thick, sulfurous yellow foam drifted up from the harbor's depths and created this large slick on the surface of the water, described as being about eighty feet wide and a half mile long, kind of like the gas and oil slick that floats on top of the ocean when God forbid, an airliner goes down. Same thing. The yellow foam was the only evidence that something was there in the water somewhere

deep below these search vessels. As the story goes, no wreckage and no bodies were ever recovered from this Shag Harbor incident. By the next morning, RCC Halifax or the Joint Rescue Coordination Center in Halifax, Nova Scotia, and the local NORAD station determined that all commercial, private, and military aircraft were accounted for along the entire Eastern Seaboard. It was looking less and less likely

that whatever crashed in Shag Harbor originated from Earth. Right. For three days, divers searched the harbor's icy depths for any evidence of a downcraft, and officially nothing was ever found. It's like it never happened, although there are people that swear this isn't true. Some locals are convinced artifacts were recovered but kept secret. Isn't this always the case with stories like this? Right, a local fisherman claimed he saw maybe divers bring up aluminum colored metal from the

harbor's depths. No word on whether or not this actually happened, or if the debris recovered had anything to do with an actual UFO. I can tell you no official documents exist that detail anything being recovered from the crash at Shag Harbor, but who knows? And really this is where the official story of the Shag Harbor UFO crashed ends. But according to legend, this is not

where the shag Harbor UFO incident ends. You see, there was a supposed second recovery effort off the coast of Shelbourne, Nova Scotia, about a thirty seven minute car ride from Shag Harbor. According to a military witness, he was allegedly briefed that the UFO that crashed in the water at Shag Harbor had

originally been picked up on radar coming out of Siberia. After crashing in Shag Harbor, the UFO traveled underwater to the coast, up to the coast and came to rest on top of a submarine magnetic detection grid reportedly off of Shelburne, where it was supposedly joined by a second vehicle, a second UFO or

maybe in this case, a USO an unidentified submersible object. In his book called Dark Object, the World's Only Government documented UFO Crash, a book about the Shag Harbor incident, author and UFO researcher Chris Stiles describes a remarkably tantalizing

incident that took place immediately after the crash at Shag Harbor. In Dark Object, styles claims to have interviewed former military insiders and members of the Canadian Navy's Fleet diving Unit, who told him that the unidentified object spotted in Shag Harbor had submerged under its own power. Didn't sink because it crashed. It submerged on its own and traveled to a spot on the seabed off of Shelbourne,

Nova, Scotia. Styles sources told them that a secret flotilla was dispatched, a secret fleet of ships, in this case six American and Canadian destroyers. They were dispatched and ordered to sit on the water and hold station over two UFOs that were sitting on the seabed. Just picture that, six huge, fully manned destroyer ships sitting out on the sea keeping an eye on two UFOs

directly underneath them. These weren't scientific research boats or civilian boats. These were the big guns, the biggest guns in fact, why do you think that is? According to Styles as insiders, the flotilla observed one of the UFOs giving assistance to the other giving it repair, and that the flotilla was ordered as a recovery mission to get a hold of that sweet sweet alien technology. But when divers went down to determine what would be needed for the recovery mission

to ascertain what they were dealing with and how to deal with it. The divers saw that they were active. There was activity taking place on the seafloor between the two UFOs, like one UFO was lending assistance to the other. The divers even claimed to have seen biological activity like actual physical aliens. That's when top military brass decided to change the mission from recovery to observation only.

The destroyer flotilla sat over the submerged UFOs observing them for a week, when, as the story goes, a Soviet submarine decided to violate the then twelve mile international limit between the two countries Russia and Canada in an attempt to make

contact with the UFOs. The powerful US and Canadian flotilla were ordered to show challenge to these Soviet intruders, and as this confrontation was unfolding, both UFOs leave the seabed where they'd been sitting and move quickly toward the Gulf of Maine, where they shoot up from the seafloor, break the surface, and fly

away. Now, as crazy as all this sounds, this departure from the coincides with the second major UFO siding on October eleventh, nineteen sixty seven, so seven days after the crash at shag Harbor of two UFOs sited in the Gulf of Maine area by multiple witnesses from Shag Harbor to Yarmouth, Nova, Scotia. Now, possibly even more amazing is at the time in the Shelbourn area where the secret Destroyer flotilla was stationed. Above the two UFOs, there

was a top secret Canadian military base disguised as an oceanographic institute. The name of this secret facility was the Canadian Forces Stationed Shelburn or CFS Shellburn, and its purpose was to use underwater microphones and magnetic detection devices to listen for Soviet submarines in the Atlantic, and this secret base, CFS Shellburn, could listen to the entire Atlantic Ocean. It said that their microphones belonging to CFS Shelburn

heard everything they heard the initial crash and submerging at shag Harbor. They heard the two UFOs leave Shag Harbor and situate themselves on the seabed off of Shelburn, which is how they knew to get the secret Destroyer flotilla out over to the UFO's exact resting spot. The microphones heard the UFOs leave the Shelburn area and head to the Gulf of Maine, and they likely even heard the two UFOs break the surface at the Gulf of Maine as they headed off into the

sky towards god knows where. Now, if this is true, this is just amazing. But that's the thing, no one knows if this is true or not. I mean, yes, something did land or crash in Shag Harbor on the night of October fourth, nineteen sixty seven, There's no question about that. And yes, tons of people saw this thing, including civilians, a boat captain and his crew, the police, and pilots. Can't forget that. We also heard a first hand account in this episode, So

yes, something did happen, and there's even a photograph of something. Just check the show notes. And that something coincides with the story told by Air Canada flight three h five, the Blue Explosion. And there really was a secret submarine detection facility a short distance from Shag Harbor. And yes, official records do state that this was an actual unidentified flying object a UFO, and exactly what that UFO was a plane, a satellite, space debris or an

alien craft is anyone's guess. But the rest of it, the flotilla of destroyers, two UFOs, alien beings, a Russian sub All that is hearsay with no documentation to back any of it up. But man, I hope it's true. What a story. Right now? Before we close this episode, I just want to mention that over the years, decades more like, people have searched the seab at Shag Harbor numerous times looking for that one piece of evidence that proved the world that this really was an alien craft that crashed.

Divers claimed to have found circular indentations in the seafloor on top of which, for some reason, no vegetation would grow and no crustacean would crawl.

In Around nineteen eighty eight, a man named Gordon Fader, a local marine geologist, scanned the seafloor with a certain type of radar can't remember what it was called, and found a series of four circles or four round depressions in the seafloor, an inconsistency for the sea bottom in Shag Harbor when compared to the rest of the environment, and each depression was roughly twenty one feet around. They reminded Faighter of the markings left by a drilling station, even though

no drilling station ever existed in Shag Harbor. Now. In twenty nineteen, Celine and Fabian Cousteau Cousteau, grandchildren of the late great oceanographer and conservationalist Jacques Cousteau, one of my heroes, brought their television series Legends of the Deep to Shag Harbor in hopes of finding evidence of a UFO on the seafloor, or at the very least the four mysterious circular impressions mapped by Gordon Fader in

nineteen eighty eight. Unfortunately, the Cousteau's they didn't find either. The Cousteaus believed that if the markings left by a UFO crash were there, or the weird circular impressions were there, at some time in the past, decades of ocean currents eroded any evidence away and now it's lost forever. But they don't completely deny that a UFO could have crashed there. It's a very interesting story.

That's what I got on the Shag Harbor UFO incident. I really do you know if any of them films or anything like that has been made from it, you know, I didn't. I honestly, tons of documentaries. I feel sensationalized enough for like it might be. I mean, that's sensationalized. I mean I feel like it can be sensationalized into like a film or a TV series. Yeah, I don't. I don't know if an actual movie, you know, Hollywood movie was made about this, I don't think

so. I didn't look for that in particular. But plenty of documentaries, some good, some terrible. Yeah, no, I bet a good I would say, A good fountain of information out there. Some of it you have to dig for, especially that that second half when when the UFO submerged and then went off to another resting location. Not a lot of information on that, you really have to search for that. But lots of lots of information about the actual Shag Harbor crash itself out there, but no one talks

about it. I don't know why. Fascinating story, great story. I wonder if that's because the people of Nova Scotia and maybe therefore the country, they're like, well, they did talk about it that that that decade, that year. It was talked about, and now we're over it where they're over it. And I mean it's not like this goes on periodically or anything.

It's not like that location is a hotbed for this activity. It was that time, that day, right that night, right that night, right October third, fourth, and but but yeah, these these incidents not gonna force you force you like forget them, honestly, which happens a lot with other incidents too, because they happen, what what whatever it is and we have to move on, Like what are you gonna do? Wait for the next one? Not live a life while you do that? Not you know

what do you? Yeah, we can't track them. We don't know what they are. We don't know. We just don't know enough. All we can do is marvel at the incidents and just track them and log them as we can. Yeah, but it's a great story. I definitely didn't hear of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, great story. I can tell you. Shag Harbor is a lot like Roswell in that this fantastic incident completely shaped the community, you know, the town. Yeah, you know,

they have their UFO festivals, they embrace it. I wonder do they do they have that landing platform there. Landing platform, No, they probably don't you ever heard of a landing platform being made there for potentially other UFOs? Oh, I know what you talk about. No, nothing that I found like that. No, no, no, I don't think Norm Smith would deal with that. Well, I'm sure it's not just up to him. But yeah, so yeah, I don't know. That's shag Harbor UFO incident.

Pretty amazing. Yeah, guys, let us not I you've heard of it before. We'd like to know. And then what kind of like maybe misconceptions you had on the story that we may be cleared up here, or maybe you have additional information that we just don't know. That would be interesting, That would be cool. But obviously I'm less likely for that to happen. But if it does happen, obviously we're welcoming. Otherwise, I don't I don't have a lot else something. And then I just mean, I

don't have any questions or anything other than it is. There's not a question, I guess as a remark, But like the difference in the countries respond our next door neighbors write their responses, is that kind of gets to me.

It's just as surprising as seeing you know, you're telling the story about all these witnesses and accounts and pictures, and you know it's just as amazing, just as amazing as the way their government or responding officers or whatever you want to call it, air people responding to this and compared to two hours, Yeah, oh yeah, to this day even more so, it is astounding and it sucks, it does. But hopefully disclosures on the horizon, right, we'll get it all. Who knows, But Canadon's a big place,

though it is. Yeah, yeah, they seem to be a lot more lax or loose with their UFO reports and things. H they seemingly are. I wonder if there are many others So there are not that you maybe you may not know the number, but I wonder what other incidents have they encountered. Oh there's tons, There's tons. I can't think of one off the top of my head. But canad has had its line share of UFO

sightings for sure. Right, I imagine they would have to not because of the land they all, but they're also next two hours and we get a lot, so understands the reason that they should get a lot too, right, Yeah, I mean just within wrapped in this Shag Harbor incident. A week later, seven days later, off the Gulf of Maine, there was another dual UFO sighting, which supposedly coincides to them leaving the seabed right like I mentioned in the in the story here. But so yeah, they've definitely

had their their fair share. Yeah. Yeah, and maybe one day we'll research more. Yeah, and let us know what you thought of the Norman Smith interview. That was the first place, Yes, that was, and that cow it's uniquely tailored for our show. Yeah yeah. And he also mentioned Randy Tucker, who's of Somewhere out There Radio. He's been on the show before. So yeah, super super cool, something very unique for this show. Yeah, man, good job, I love it. Awesome.

Well, if that's it, Oscar, will you fly us home? Yes, but you hate flying I do. I hate UFOs too. I'll take you on a ship. There we go. Mm hm h there we go. Yeah. Week and a half ish week week mm hmmm mm yeah. Uh yeah. No. Today my brother and my nephew came by to visit, which has been a long time since. It was good, Like, you know, he did his homework here and stuff. We say pizza and they saw the girls. Yeah, and they're great. I just cracked open.

I carved the punkin for them because they love pumpkins. Oh m hm, so you carve like a jackal entern Yeah, I mean, no shapes. I just carved like ins and outs in the pumpkin, and so they can climb around in there. Oh that's stupid adorable. It is really ridiculously adorable. And they love to eat the seeds. So what I do is I just like toast the seats a bit and then give it to them. Oh wow, and it's all over and that is cool. Yeah, it's

cool. Nice. Then containers shipping containers quadrupled or whatever the number after quadruple is, I don't know, and dimpled yeah, quin oh good, quintupled in price. If not more containers are coming over half half full, you get them to the US ports, there's problems getting the products off the ships because of shortage of longshoreman, problems at customs. Then there's shortage of train,

cars, trucks, truck drivers, you name it. So it's it's a real domino effect of it's there's a problem in every sort of process between someone clicking to order and getting that to them. Yes, like from that point to this point, it's a real fucking trial. Yeah, and there's no end in sight. There's no end in sight. We're not going to have product until probably March April May of twenty twenty two. Yeah, no, wow, and no one's talking about it. Drive by a use a

car lot an auto dealership. Half the lot is empty because they can't get cars in because there's no computer chips to put in the cars. Like there is a four dealership like a block away all right for me, the one with the funny commercial, the golf Mill forward. Oh, I remember, it's right there. Yeah, it's like a block away. What does that look like? It does look emptier, But I never really look at it anymore. I don't come from that direction anymore. That's why I don't look

at it as much. But the few times that I have, I have You're right, I have noticed that they have lesser cars. They usually put their overflow across the street into the empty parking lots that no one uses in the golf Mill center, the mall, because they have so much parking spaces in the far edges that no one uses except for like drug dealers. And

cops looking for speeders it so they use their overflow. I haven't seen overflow there and since COVID, yeah see, you know, yeah, yeah, it's it's a very real thing, and it's it's getting worse and I don't know, I don't know. It's it's I'm starting to think there's more to

it, there's some concerted effort to do something. But mm hmm. Yeah, this is the kind of thing that makes us, that makes our I don't want say profession, but our podcasts or our beliefs in or not believes in conspiracies, but our talks about conspiracies a little more legit because it's like, no one's gonna I'm not gonna blame anyone for saying they don't believe all these conspiracies. Obviously, it's it's kind of unbelievable some of this stuff,

and I get it, but I can't imagine. But what's even more unbelievable is if someone comes to me and says, there's no there is absolutely no conspiracies out there ever, Right, Yeah, I agree, that's a good point. Right, No such thing, no way you believe in, you believe in none of them. None of them are true. None of them whatsoever are true. No way, no way, impossible. That's way more. That's way less likely than believing in five or something or a few of

them. You're right, especially the world we're living in today, right, Yeah, it's it's a strange place, strange time. Man. Yeah, it is more and more every day, it seems, or at least more is shown. Right. Yeah. So that's what's been up with me a lot. And it's been it's been rough. It's been rough. Okay, we obviously it's not gonna be part of the main show. But I'm gonna

start with asking you. Oh no, yeah, I'm gonna start by asking you before I ask about the movie, what blood pressure it's already going on. How do you feel today about the ending of the show? I know we've talked about it before. Yeah, yeah, and I think I remember, if I remember correctly, is that you have either calmed down from that ending or have retrofittedly, like think something else about it, you know.

I mean, I'm not angry about it anymore. I was at the time for sure, just like everybody else, you were so invested in this show and these characters, and you know, became a ritual to watch and then to have it end like that was just it felt like a slap in the face at the time, right, And I still think it's a it's a shitty way to end the show. It's a piss poor way. Oh we're gonna leave it up to the audience. No, fuck you, you're lazy. That's that's the way I feel about it. But yeah, I'm over

it. I would never watch it again. But oh I want to watch it again. Okay, So I said, because I wasn't sure, because I thought, I don't know if you change your mind or not. But you haven't. But you're still not, Like you're not mad anymore, but like you haven't changed your mind about the ending, correct. I mean, I think I have an opinion on what happened, Like I do believe he got killed, you know. I mean, I don't think it's an opinion

at all. I don't think it leaves anything ambiguous. I think they'll die. It's one hundred percent for sure. I don't see why people have were confused by it in my opinion. Yeah, but yeah, I mean I was with you on that day too, because I think we saw it together, did did we We were at we were at our place in oak Park. Yeah, I went to the oak Park place a lot. I think we saw it together, did we? Okay, I don't remember, but I remember that we thought the same thing, Like the I remember thinking the

same thing. I know you did too. So again, maybe that's why I'm confusing it, but that the fucking cable went out or absolutely I literally got up and checked the back of the television. Right, but then and

that was the same way. But you know, there's there's two to two things with that, and one of them is that culturally, you know, everyone claims a lot of people, critics, mainly critics and filmmakers, claim that The Sopranos is the is when the golden age of cinema TV started, Right, golden age of TV shows started and came out, and before that TV shows were ship compared until the Sopranos came. Right, That's how good it was, right, And I agree, it's a great fucking show.

Yeah, you know, I've since we watched the show once more and I have the Blu rays. I'm gonna watch it again that maybe maybe next year or this year. I don't know when I'll start because I have the race and and when I we watched it years later, but now it's been years since then with a friend that was showing it to the for for the first time. To her, I was like noticing how much funny it was. I'm like, oh my god, this is really funny and great and it's

fucking awesome. I found out that my second rewatched that the show is very obvious. It's super obvious. There's nothing ambiguous as far as what's going to happen at the end. Yeah, exactly, exactly, nothing ambiguous about it. I saw it again, I was like, it was so painfully obvious that Jay Jay's eyes today will notice it immediately. Really, yes, if you've seen it for the first time today, you would still like, oh, yeah, they're all dead. It's a for Metal who's parking in the

front right, so A J two yeah and yah yeah. So here's why it's obvious. One And I don't know if you remember this, because again we saw a lot of these episodes together in that last season. There's a deal that Tony does with Colombians. I think I don't remember some South American cartel or group of criminals, and they're talking like being not behind his back, but they're talking in Spanish in front of him in order for him not to understand them, and I translated it for you that day. I said,

holy shit. He said something about bumping him off, about doing some hit on him or something. He said something like that, you say it like that, But he said, are we going to do that thing with Tony soon? But he said it to his partner in Spanish, as Tony's

looking puzzly at him, like what did you say? I don't understand you, you know, as they're finishing this deal, and I remember, and again I have do we watch it again because I don't remember the details anymore, But I know that that involved Pauli and involved like that's Paullie's scheme or

plan or not or whatever. And that my my hypothesis, again not knowing the details anymore, is that was at the time that Pauli these guys to kill Tony after this deal was made with with whoever the big bad was at the time, and that Paulie was taking over because he was the only remaining crew member. Oh my god, because still was dead. Everyone else is dead, everyone's dead. By that point, Bill was dead, so they still got killed. When he got shot. Remember, I don't, I

honestly don't. He got shot in the last episode or the second to last episode, I don't want to say. And then Paulie was the only remaining one. He was having a lot of troubles with Tony and his leadership and his bullshit, you know, the whole thing with the mom, with the whole thing with the church. He was constantly like fucking hating everyone and hating how his life was in the shitty house and shit and kind of I think he wanted more and I think he planned this thing. That was my idea

anyway, but that's not you know, that's just a hypothesis. Now to the ending, the second to the last episode, Tony literally or was this like, yeah, it was second to the last episode. Uh, Tony literally They do a flashback on earlier that season where Tony and some guy talks about how it feels, how how when you die it all goes to black? Did they really they really said it? They literally they not only put it in the season, but they also flashed back to it. And this

in the episode before the ending. Holy shit. Well, Tony mentions that how it goes to black when nothing happens just goes to black and you're just gone, and then and then the movie and then the show ends that way. It's so obvious that what makes Yeah, I don't remember any of that, man, because we were watching it. We were just watching it too closely. We were just watching it too closely in week by week, and we were just not paying attention. I wasn't either back then. Wow,

I missed it. I completely missed it. Yeah. Well then if if all that is true, then all of a sudden, the ending is completely different. Yeah. Right, that's what I'm saying. You know, it's pretty obvious too. And you know which are the two goons that come in after Tony into the restaurant? Y, You know that those two of the once they're just waiting for them to all sit down ship. Maybe they're waiting for Meadow and she takes too long and the just do it. You know.

Wow mm hmmm. So I wasn't sure about the whole family. I just thought Tony maybe, But that's horrible, no, because I think you were only one guy. I think is more obvious that it would be all of them if if there were more than one. Yeah. Yeah, And I love the poly theory, like I really had whenever we watch it. But I've been having conversations with people. I wasn't just you that hated the movie and then maybe you know, made them talk about the show and how

they hated the ending. I'm like, I'm like, it wasn't that bad, guys. But anyway, so the movie, Oh God, what did you want from the movie? I have asked my question to you, what did you expect when before you hit play? What did you I really thought it was. I really thought it was going to be the New Jersey crew that we loved, right with the with the series. I thought it was going to be a New Jersey crew or origin story, seeing them all grow

up getting involved in That's also what I wanted. That's what we all wanted. You're right. I also did not expect that. Yeah, and for people to say, oh, well you should have known by many Saints Malta Sante fuck off. No one expected that's what it was gonna be. I'm sorry, some character that was randomly mentioned throughout the Soprano series, it was gonna doesn't make sense, you know? They did? They did a dead Wood movie right that were from the show that never got finished. They did

a Deadwood movie. Years later, ten years, I think then the tenth year anniversary of the show ending, they did a movie to like to put to make a finale right now. If that movie involved like some father's side character version of that, I would have been pissed. But it wasn't. They They included every motherfucker from the show. It was about them, you know, so like I get it, and I was with you, and I think what I should have done is that I should have read or seen

it. I should have read the plot synopsis before, or I should have seen the trailer before, because then I wouldn't have been And then I would go into that movie knowing that it's not about the crew, the loved crew that we know. I mean, it's about some of them a little bit, but not really a little bit, like they're like in the background.

Like I mean, it was fucked up seeing Tony's mom, like, oh my god, like, oh my, this is the beginning of the of the headaches with the mother, you know, and I she did a good job over here for me. You reminded me so much of that old oh my, oh my gosh, shut up, Like I'm like, it's so bullshit. I'm I can see why Tony needs fucking therapy. Yeah, yeah, right, And they do a couple of scenes with Tony, but like

it wasn't enough. You're right, I wanted more. And the thing is that I don't know what they thought they were trying to do with this, because this movie, like it depends on the knowledge, It depends on you knowing the Sopranos the show to work because they do a lot of shorthand they

don't have to explain. They linger on characters that if this movie wasn't about Sopranos, let's say it was just a period gangster movie in New Jersey, Like they would have to explain a lot more, or they wouldn't linger on a character that we don't give a shit about because we don't know who Tony or Paudier still is. Right, But like the fact that they did both of those is like, you're right. It is like the worst version of both worlds. Like you need the show to watch the movie, but you

want a different movie in order to appreciate the show more. Yeah, good way to put it. That's exactly right. Yeah, So I ultimately I ultimately agree with you. I don't think it was as bad as your text threat. I wasn't that wasn't like that me. My biggest problem was that what in the fuck? I mean, forget Polish stroy Okay, forget Polish story. There's nobody better like Okay, John Burenthal is Italian, he's not Italian. But why the fuck is that white guy June? Uncle June is

not that guy? Who? Who is that guy? You mean? Like, what was the guy's name? Name? He's in like some Dominicchianese Genese I think is who played Uncle June? Dominicanese? Oh no, I'm saying in the in them and this movie? Oh yeah, no, no, no, played him with some white guy? What it? What he was in that vampire TV shows? What I know him from? Uh? Yes, yes, with the boy he's also from the House of Cards. Oh okay, yeah, But like dominic Chianese, he didn't have a son or

a grandson that could have played him. They they had to pull in this guy they pulled in? Did they pulled in? Uh? You know Tony's real son or whatever what's the name? Oh, to be him, right, Michael or whatever? That worked and he was a good actor. I think he did a good job. But like there was forget sons, like, there's really no Italian of them, Jesus Christ, there's so many. They built bridges here. They can't act. Of course, they can't act.

So I was thinking like that bothered me way more. I'm like, what are you doing? Movie? Like, what is this? Yeah? I didn't know that was Uncle June. Until you'll find them as racist when they're just differently they're themselves or miscast. It's just so, I can't. I just all I felt wrong, Yeah, exactly wrong. Paulie looked like a fucking I don't even know what he looked like. Oh Paulie, Oh no, I think that was he looked almost like exactly like paul did you

think? So make a younger Pouli with the suit, him giving a ship about the suit and when they tortured that guy and he still explores blood on him. That's such a poly scene. I can see like an older Polly going, yeah, I can see that. Okay, how about good? How about pussy? Yeah, pussy was bad. I don't know what that was in two radiotas, What is it with the what is it with that? I don't, I don't, I don't. I mean, I feel like maybe if I watched the show, are they gonna mention some twins in

the show? Right and there? I don't know what they did they mind the show to get that information and they're like, oh, well we mentioned twins. Either there are hardcore fans out there, we gotta we gotta put them in. Is that what they did or because it's so it's a very obscure fact because I didn't know, right, yes, Like it's a deep cut, like the cut of a fifteen year old show. You know, I don't know if it works. I don't know. I was with you on that. I don't get it. I mean, I like Realioda,

but like he's dead, like kill fuck cast someone else. I don't know, yeah, catch someone else. I literally thought something. I thought like my stream skipped or you know, oh really something happened with the stream and it just skipped ahead. Yeah uh, and I missed all the explanation. But no, no, no, twin raaliotas. Yeah, I feel like

this, you know it would this movie. I would have appreciated this movie had we had already that movie of the crew going up and if we go back more in time, like a second one from after all that, like what got them going what led to them being the New Jersey Crew that would eventually lead them into two thousands. Like that, that would have been cool, But to start with this no, no, yeah, or maybe a part two to this the many New Saints of Newark more Saints of Newark,

I don't know. Yeah, take it up from when when he did that stupid pinky thing in the casket. Take it from there in the next movie. Okay, I'm in okay, all right, yeah, yeah, I don't know how don't feel about that. Actually, I don't like the I don't know if I like their story device at all, because is Chris talking to us beyond the great? What's going on here? Like, I don't know if I like their there they got the actor to do it, but like, yes, yeah, that's the way I took it. Chris is

talking to us from the future. Yeah, and he keeps from the future I guess so, yeah, but he's from a future where he's dead, so yes, because he keeps talking about this guy who's gonna kill him and he's like a teenager right now. He's like the ghost of Christmas future. What the fuck is happening? I don't know. Italian Christmas Future. I don't know how I feel about that. And also, like one of the best things about the show that they did so good was the dream sequences.

Then we had no no dream sequences in this one. It would have been cool to see something like stick to the bones of what made the show awesome, you know, and make us revisit that by putting a dream sequence, and it would have been cool. Yeah. True, Again, it's more of my opinion than that, I guess, But yeah, man, I don't know or or even give me the story of John Bernhal's character. He was a maniac, a lunatic. That would have been a great story.

He did seem like a maniac, and every time he left the screen to do some crazy thing, we just got stuck in somehouse somewhere or something else, you know. Yeah, yeah, you're right, I don't know. And then just the way the movie was put together, it was I think I said this in my text, like it just seemed like in them scenes forced together. It was. It was very strange, the way it just flowed and moved, and I don't know, it was it was. It

was bad. Twenty minutes into it, I text Verio because he was watching it like an hour before I did. He was like an hour ahead of me when I started, So twenty minutes into it, I text him like when does this thing get good? And he just rolle back. It doesn't like oh no, and the whole listen. You know New Jersey Riots. I'm sure they were terrible. Maybe that's something we, you know, people should be talking about and exploring and whatever. But maybe nine as a pranos

fucking a movie. Yeah, I'm not trying to be insensitive, but again, it would have been awesome if it was part of this larger scale like sequels. Maybe like this, he'd be this. This. This feels like a Part two or another Part one movie. It feels like we yeah, they did the wrong background check. Yeah yeah. And maybe maybe Chase started it and realized that it's saying like, tell me, tell me about al Capone. I'm like, for that, we're gonna have to start with the

Romans. I'm like, what, No, No, tell me when he was born? What do you what tho? How do you get to Chicago first when the Indians had No? No, it's so you're so right, No, I don't want to go that far back. Just tell me about al Capone so his mother. No, no, right, that's exactly what it is. It. Yeah, you're right, I love it. Tell me about al Capone. Well, the Indians. No, it was a

garbage dump. I don't give a ship. Yeah about that? Do you think do you think David Chase started and then realized ship, I don't have anything, and then just it was he had to finish. Well, here's I don't know much about David Chase. I know that he is considered to be extremely I mean, he's a very well writer. He's a great writer obviously, but like and director and all that. But I don't know what's up his thing. I don't know what he thinks. I don't know if

he's if this is like immense pressure coming out. But if he waited this long and felt like he had a story and this was his story, then he didn't really know his audience. Because I feel like a guy like that who doesn't have to really make anything. I'm not saying he's super rich or anything. I'm not sure. I'm sure he's fine, but you know,

he's definitely not as prominent as he used to be. But like, it's so so long time, it's such a long time ago that people have let go like you have with the Sopranos ending, or have forgotten it, or you know, saw it and loved it, maybe whatever. But it's been so long that I can't see why he would feel the need to make one and make this. I don't know, was he getting pressure. I have no idea the background in this movie, but I would love to find out

what what that is though. Yeah. One thing that I read in a few different articles was that he wanted he really wanted to do a movie about the New Jersey Riots, the Newark Riots. That that was that's what he really wanted to do. Yeah, so it seems like he just kind of spun in the Sopranos too, maybe help fund his little passion project of the Newark Riots. That I can see. I mean, that's that I can see. You know. There's a great example of this. Have you seen

ten Cloverfield Lane, Yes, game movie. I don't know, I feel loved it, but I loved it. That's one with John Goodman in the basement right in the Yes, Yeah, I liked it, and Mary Elizabeth Wins said, And the movie's great. It's it's it's an actual sequel or prequel whatever you want to call it to the Cloverfield you know, found footage, horror movie whatever. That was Godzilla movie, right, And it wasn't that. For the longest time, that script wasn't written to be a clover

Field movie. It was written as something else, entirely, completely original, different thing. They retrofitted a clover Field plot in there or whatever with the ending in order to get funding to make the movie. Oh see, famously. So it was like a famous little success story. That's how they were able to make the movie. But that was like a passion ending movie. Really that got turned into a bigger head huh. So I wonder if that's what happened here. It must have. That's the only thing I can think

of. They go up to David Chase and like, man, I want to make the New York Riots. I'm like, no, it's a fucking shit about the New Ork Riot. You may have it, right, we have this month or you know, like you know the Python that and like but like we know, but we love the Sopranos. You want to do once you include them into the New York Riots, see what they were up

to at the time. We do that you cause they have your new work riots thing, and then he may look at it and like, well, I really want to do new new work rights, right, but the history goes too far back to actually include the characters from the Sopranos in a meaningful way, right, which is what we wanted like then. But they clearly dominated the eighties more right, eighties nineties. Yeah, and they're like,

oh, it's too far back. So I guess I could go further back and talk about the Maltis Anti cu and all this shit, and that's where that makes so much sense. Yeah, I can see that sad sad. Yeah, and you know it sounds like I was like you, you know, you didn't watch any trailers, you didn't read synopsis or any think I stared purposely away from it. I didn't want to say pretty cleaning on that.

Yeah, I had faith, if I had faith that I was going to go in and love this, right, and then they have that shit happened? Oh my lord? Nothing. Yeah, And I think I said this in the text too, But I think my favorite favorite part of the movie was the foreshadowing with Christopher as a baby. All Right. I remember mentioning that, Yeah, I actually hated that, did you really? I was so on the nose. I'm like, it was just like it's like as dark Rader just says, you know your father right, Like it just

felt so weird, Like I felt too on the nows. I felt preachy. I felt like, look, we're part of that Soprano series. I can totally see. I can see that for sure. I felt off, especially when that old lady, the grandma wherever she was, she's like, you know when babies. I'm like, bitch, you don't need to explain it. Yeah, if they just drop that part out, I would. I would have been with you and like, okay, that was cool, Like the baby doesn't want to get near to me, but you don't explain

it. What the fuck is wrong with the old bag? So some fucking old country shit. Well, what's interesting you mentioned the lady, the grandma or whatever she was. Another because I read a lot about this movie, I wanted to see what people were thinking, and one of the things I said is that in Soprantic, I vaguely remember this Tony would talk to doctor Melfie about having a nightmare about a shadow woman, this shadowy woman who would

be in his dreams or nightmares. It would scare the ship, and everyone assumed it was his mother, but they're saying, in actuality, it was that woman, that superstitious grandmother figure, whoever she was, that Tony was really afraid of, and that's who it was in his dreams. So maybe that's why she actually had a speaking part. You know. That's thumb tight.

No's okay again, it's like before with that other thing, you know, like it's too obscure twin raeliotas if it is a reference to something in the show, Like you just referenced part of the show from one of the mouthy sessions. It stoops here. I don't remember that too, You're right, Yeah, I didn't know it until I read it. You know, Yeah, I don't remember that, but hm, I'm vague vaguely, I kind of remember the shadow lady. But anyway, that's what it was supposed

to be. Yeah, it just overall didn't make sense. Nope, Nope. I didn't know it was uncle June until someone actually called him June. Yeah, until he fell, until he slipped on this on the on the front of the funeral thing. Oh, I didn't know that because they mentioned his name more at that point, and I was like, Oh that's him. That was him the whole time, Like, okay, sure they probably they've been calling him by his full name or something, and I just fucking

missed it every time. Now, But oh that's him, and like the little petty bitch just because he's laughing at you, gonna shoot him, like I, I mean, that's that's true though, that's a lot of that's that happened a lot in Surpranos. All little slights get you killed. Yeah, but that's also true in the Scorsese movie. Basically mob movies happened a lot. Yeah, I guess you're right. What are my fucking clown?

I'm here to amuse you exactly. Yeah, Okay, I thought when he did dress, like towards the end when he's in the pay payphone booth, when he's in the thick glasses, the black glasses, got the little hat on, he's wearing that kind of comfy looking overcoat, you know, he did look I thought he kind of looked like Uncle June at that point. Hm. But all throughout terrible most of that now he wasn't. Yeah,

yeah, it looks like the number two right or something. Well, he was in Sopranos wasn't Uncle June technically the leader of the New Jersey Crew. Well he must have been a later after to kill Montetante. But like in the movie, he's like, multi, it's not the number two. Oh sorry, yes, yes, but now in Sopranos, was he number one? Or was he number two? He wasn't number one at the start of

the show. He was too old already. But yeah, okay, it was someone else that someone dies and then something from happens in New York that leads Tony to be the number one. If I remember, I'm getting remember why I watch it? So yeah, I really should. They're good. It's a good show. Saverio binged it before the movie came out. Oh he did, he did. Yeah, he watched all six seasons. Okay, he doesn't have a hobbist huh yeah, Like, don't you work every

morning? It was like, I'm watching Sopranos, don't you work? Okay, So what do you think that he liked the show? Still? No, he fucking hated it. Oh the show. Yes, he liked the show. Yeah, movie. No, hated it the movie. I get what was her name, Filipina? She was she was cool? Oh the Chris's girl or yeah, his father's the one that his father brought over from Italy. Yeah she was pretty good. Yeah she was good. I liked her. I didn't like how she got fucking drowned that way, but also

like the mass pitch, don't tell him anything. No, oh my god, I do that. He knew the second. I knew the second when she wiped before she said it. I'm like, good, dad, that's your last speach right there. Yeah, like that, you're dad. This fucking guy has too much to prove as he's like old school Italian bullshit. He's gonna kill you, oh your dad. Yeah, he's like, no matter what it is, we'll get through it. I love you, I love you. I slept with a harold you motherfucker. Yeah no, I

wasn't gonna let her get away with that. Yeah yeah, just shem. She must be from Sicily. Sorry, I know, I'm trying to be good in case who use it for out takes? No, I know. But they also mentioned the joke in the movie too. They Yeah, they do. They say something. They're in a barbershop or some like group of

people and someone mentions like, I he aren't you from Sicily? Aren't you an, I know they don't say that that aren't you part black or something like that, and they going no, no, those are only from Sicily. I'm from northern He mentioned it like, oh, I think he's like, yeah, I'm not done or something. Yeah. Yeah, Like even when they used Italian words, it seemed just terribly forced or not enough. No. Uh yeah, it's either terribly forced or just over emphasized that they

said it. I don't it was no, didn't work. I agree, and here in Raliota speak, Italian just cut it out. Uh yeah, was that. I don't know, I don't have a good bad year. It was pretty bad. Yeah yeah, I mean he got I don't understand some of this, Like Raalioda is famous for being in in gangster movies, particularly Good Fellas Right, Like, nearly all of his success comes from Gothellas Right. Everything that he's enjoyed today in jobs in movies has been from the

strength of Cathellos. Sure, And I don't know why people forget this. He's not Italian in that movie. He's half Italian at best, Irish. He's mainly like he will never be a made guy, and he was always a guy who had never killed either like, why are everyone trying to force feed leioda is something that he isn't. He was famous for something that he isn't. Another great point. Yeah, I don't know what's going on with that. Yeah, I couldn't wait to talk to you about it. Thanks

to this show. Now they're going to make a Dickie multa Sante part two, Dickie Lives. No, no, it's called Dicky's Revenge. Dicky's Revenge. Oh god. And they're like, oh, oh, Uncle June said that Tony doesn't have what it takes to be a football player. Oh my god. It's such a throwback to the Sopranos. I can't take it. Or the beehive. Oh they did the beehive scene. I don't give a fuck. I don't give a fuck if he couldn't play football, or then

she got shot through the beehive, I don't care. I don't think it was Uncle June that really deterred him. It was many the mother. Let's face it, it was the mother. The mother was playing everything with him with the football, even before we even saw Tony. Like, my god, this woman is so horrible. You see this in football, Tony. Yeah, Ma, it's not for you. Yeah, okay, ma, he says, Oh, my mom is fucking Mary Poppins compared to that one.

Every worst nightmare is Mary Poppins compared to what that woman turns into. Yes, that's true. And when when Vera, when when my girl Vera went to talk to the principal of the school, and the principal was telling the story of what Tony told her. M M, did you think that was going to take another turn? Didn't She set it up almost like the mother did something wrong with Tony while she was in both with them. They really set it up to almost seem like it was going to go molestation,

but it didn't. So Loki high key, I thought that that's still on the table. But he's what I thought of that, saying a good thing you reminded me. I thought that it is bringing that up. And I don't know if it's because the times right that people weren't aware of this kind of thing generally or right away. When the teacher was talking about it, she was talking about it of the principle. She was talking about it in

terms of a great memory that they both had. But with her face those reactions, it felt like she was worried about maybe being seen as someone that did something wrong in that moment, which maybe makes me think that she did do something. But the principal doesn't know what this memory is actually about. You know, like they both misinterpreted what each other started. You know, it felt it really felt weird and scene, and they never bring it back.

Really. I mean, she tries to be nice to Tony based on that conversation, and obviously that fails immediately because she's paranor asked she's fucking psychotic. She's psychotic. Yeah, she needs that medicine. Oh my god. And oh, actually this scene I did like when Dicky was killed and they're at the funeral. This is like the last scene she goes to one of her friends. I guess the fear for maker. She goes through one of her friends and you know, they found a bottle of that drug and Dicky's

pocket. I'm like, ba, that was for you, but that's right, and they're like, oh man, you never know about people. I'm like, oh my god, that was cool. That was a cool little touch. I like that. Oh, good point taken. You're right, my base, that wasn't for him. Ah okay, I'm glad I wasn't the only one that got that feel, that icky feel from that snow.

I got it, Okay. I just don't know how on purpose David Chase wanted it to be, but it felt like on purpose because again vera for me, I had very strange reactions to that, like, oh my god, am I getting caught to something? You're you're absolutely right, and the principle is like, oh no, it's like it's fair memory. Oh so it wasn't about that, like okay, you know, wow wow. So then I guess that would add a whole other layer to Tony's neurosis and whatever

condition he was his adiple complex. Yeah, oh there you go. Mm hmm yeah, hmm Okay. I like the movie now, no, no, no, no, but the movie is not like completely irredeewable. Yeah, because the show runners when Sopranos was going on, they really wanted to keep the mother character the whole time, all seven seasons or six seasons whatever it is. But they you know, she died in between seasons two and three or three and four, the actors died, Yeah, and they didn't

want to recast her because she did such a great job. They killed her off halfway, you know, in the in the seasons. But like they wanted their the initial plan was to always have or be like the key and the problem, right, the key problem for for Tony and psychosis and everything that makes him that makes Tony Tony. They really wanted to leave that her, leave her in it. I was glad when she died because she's just so odious that I just but in retrospect, yes, that is the best

foil for that character. It is literally every yeah, everything that makes them a bad person and all this and you can see how it you know, started with her, a lot of it, so wow. Yeah, yeah, they had to drop that, I would think. But yeah, that was the thing. We should We should go on forever about this, can't we very nearly can mm h Yeah yeah, okay,