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Hello, and welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. Today, myself Matthew, my co host Riki, and returning guest Abby are gonna be talking about Section thirty one. What is this part of Starfleet? How does it fit into our understanding of Starfleet, How does it fit into our understanding of Gene Roddenberry's creation of star Trek and what was happening with a star Trek Section thirty one movie? And so, first of we just let folks introduce themselves and Abby, you want to say hello, Hi.
I'm Abby. Pronounce er shethe awesome.
Awesome Riky as always, you're joining us.
Yes, I'm here mostly to be the cabbage head to you all. I'm familiar with like older star Trek, but I haven't really kept up and I haven't watched this movie, so I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on it well.
And that's exactly why we wanted Riky on here, because we know in a lot of media, sometimes someone here hasn't a lot of the folks in the audience haven't seen the movie or haven't seen the TV show that we're talking about, and we do want to make sure we're focusing on issues and the questions, not just like a review of the movie, but we want to make sure that we're saying enough to help the the people
who haven't seen it follow the discussion. So originally we thought this was going to be an envy that was going to spark a lot of discussion about section thirty one, and thus having Riki here who hadn't seen the movie would be great. As it turns out, the movie was quite awful, like.
It's a wonder statement, oh dear.
Some people have enjoyed it just as an action like spy adventure movie. I thought, even as that it was pretty terrible, but it is absolutely not a like when I heard this movie was gonna exist, I thought it was going to be about people in Section thirty one and why do they exist in their conflict with like you know, cause we've seen a lot of like Picard or Discovery or DS nine, those people having to come up against Section thirty one and not be sure if
it shouldn't exist or not. And I want to see a movie that was all of that from the other side. We don't get that. We get a movie that's just thirty one, which I was playing in a second who they are having an adventure in space with as many bad sexual innuendo jokes as you can make, which normally I love, but.
A Star Trek it was a lot not though Star Trek is sexy, like it's sexy, like not just like.
The characters and stuff, but like they are. There's so many episodes of both the original and of TG where they just like go to some random planet and screw.
Sure. Yeah, but the window part felt weird, it felt new, but yeah, it just it was just not a very good movie, and it didn't really introduce the topic of Section thirty one very well. So we're going to actually talk mostly about Section thirty one itself, and so here's what the movie, Yeah, exactly, well, because these questions haven't raised by other things. So Abby, let me start with you, what is your understanding of what is section thirty one?
So from my understanding, section thirty one is kind of like the CIA of Starfleet or the Federation. They are the spies who are pulling the strings and doing the things that the Federation won't do.
Yeah, I think that's the perfect way to put it. It gets compared to the Obsidian Order of the Kardassians or of the Tashiak of the Romulans Tashi a thank you, which are often presented as like, oh, we are so
much better because we don't have those things. But in a number of episodes we've learned no star Trek has this group as well, and it's been explored in DS nine is when it first got started, in the episode called Inquisition, but we've also seen in Discovery, in Picard in a number of other shows acting as though it
has an agenda for the good of Starfleet. But that's very much like the CIA, kind of like we're gonna do back room assassinations and secret deals with terrible people and all these things in order to do what we think is for the best, but with no accountability.
Yeah, the CIA comparison, I've seen that made, and I think it's fair because you have this organization that is carrying out like assassinations, presumably torture, and like genetic experiments, which are otherwise illegal, so they're doing things that are illegal. What's interesting in comparison to the CIA is that the CIA is still a legal, outfront branch of a government agency, right and Starfleet does have Starfleet Intelligence, which is like
spies and stuff who you know, do intelligence work. So Section thirty one goes beyond that into a different territory and it various points. The implication is that a lot of people in the Federation don't even know about Section thirty one. So that's where the comparison to the CIA kind of breaks down. In my opinion, is that there seems to be less accountability for Section thirty one. You know, we could argue that there's not great accountability for the CIA, but there's supposed to be.
Do you think it's more fair to say that this is like that Section thirty one is kind of like the arm of the CIA that does like the assassinations and the backroom cups.
Yeah, like if you think about the what I'm trying to think of, like, yeah, a real comparison to that, because certainly the CIA does a lot of things, so does the NSA. But do you think that there's like I mean, it's always more like the Men in Black or something like that. Like think of some sort of like shadowy secret organization that most of the government denies. You know, that's that's Nati, Yes, Illunati. It's the Kingsman. It's the like whatever.
I don't okay, I thought about this, Matthew. I don't think the Kingsman is technically a government agency. I believe it's privately funded.
I just rewatched started as a government agent, if I remember, it started as a group founded by Queen Victoria or one of the kings. But you are correct, it does become its own like privately spun off thing.
But I thought it was like rich people who yes, do have connections to government, like the rich barons of the time were like, we need something.
So that's not the best example, but either way, yeah, it is this and I think a lot of times it's been presented as an antagonist to the story, and in Discovery it provides more of a you know, partnership role to some of our characters, but it's always presented as the group that's willing to cut the corners that Starfleet wouldn't normally accept. And do you remember what exactly what the role they play is in in Inquisition.
That was the first episode, So they're the Sloane the character Sloane is the agent. I believe he was trying to recruit doctor Bashir, or in fact, he is accusing doctor Basher of being a spy for like the dominion.
Oh yes, that's right.
In doing so, like, he runs him through a series of Holidax simulations that I think Bashir thinks are real at some point to try to get him to admit that he's an agent. And when he finally like admits that he isn't, or like proves that he isn't, then Sloan is like, yeah, but I just wanted to make sure because I actually want to recruit you to be a part of Section thirty one.
Right, I think, And then and he's pretty upset about this.
Yeah, And then there's the interesting episode where Sloan and Bashir travel to Romulus in order to do some spying slash assassinating, slash manipulating of the Romulin governments, which that one was one of my favorite episodes DS nine because there's so much backstabbing and like not knowing like what's real and whose loyalties are where going on? Like that was a really good, like spy episode.
Well it's funny too, because the episode I have to remind myself that probably my favorite episode of DS nine, A lot of feel's favorite episode in the Pale Moonlight actually has nothing to do with Section thirty one, because this is the episode where Cisco winds up working with not Galen what's the name of the Credassian Taylor, Derek, Dererik, thank.
You find simple.
Garrick winds up working the two of them work together to basically bring the Romulins into the war with the Dominion, and it winds up involving the killing of a Romulan and then framing the Dominion for doing it to get the Romuin involved. And I've always thought like, like, if I don't think about it, I always think like, oh,
Section thirty one must have been involved they were. They weren't mentioned that episode at all, but I feel like it's the kind of thing where Section thirty one found out about it, they'd be like, yeah, maybe we should recruit Benjamin, like he could be one to find.
Yeah, the episode I was referencing, the title is this is Latin I believe inter Arma nm celent legs, which translates to in times of war, the law falls silent, which is a fascinating phrase and goes to like what
the ethos of Section thirty one is. And my favorite part about this episode is that Section thirty one assassinates a pro Federation Romulin senator to install a person who is like anti federation in like public, but is secretly working with them, right, And it just like it it makes you think so much about like politics and loyalties and all that.
Yeah, and all these ideas of like we have to you know. To me, that's why it feels so similar to the killing of the Romulan in order to get the Ramuans to help the Federation, you know, because it's all about like double dealing and things like this, and that quote about in times of war the law fall silent feels really relevant to what we know now is the origins of section thirty one, and Riky you know you did some digging on that.
Yeah, so the claim made and I don't I don't know if there's any way to actually verify this, but the claim made, I think by Sloan at one point, is that the origins of section thirty one go all the way back to the Starfleet Charter A Article fourteen, Section thirty one, which is where they get the name that.
According to him, the article allows for extraordinary measures to be taken in times of extreme threat, which is just a very broad thing that you can interpret in any way you want and do whatever illegal things you want. Section thirty one.
Right, Yeah, it's kind of like the building idea for martial law or for you know, the total executive immunity or whatever it is, where it says that if if the leadership thinks this has to be done, then no one gets to question them.
Yeah, like extraordinary measures like what does that mean?
Right?
Like extreme threat? Like you get to define what those are and then do what you feel needs to be done. And then it's like pre justified, like it's baked in because there's no there's no clear guidelines and I think that's part of the problem with Section thirty one as it's presented in Star Trek is that they seem to be able to do whatever the heck they want for the story, and that's not great, and that's why a lot of people don't like section thirty one stories like in Star Trek.
Right, and we'll talk. We're gonna talk about both how it exists in terms of Starfleet itself and then pull the camera back someone and talk about how does it fit into you know, Roddenberry's creation and also what star Treks become now. And so let me actually talk a little bit about what's been happening in Discovery and some of those modern shows which freaky you know you haven't seen.
I'll confess I don't remember all the ins and outs, but basically, you know, one of the main plot lines of Discovery is that the Federation and the Klingons have this major war in the years leading up to the events of the original series. And this war is kind of it's not completely pulled out a whole cloth. It's referenced a good deal in the original series. They talk about how that there's a ceasefire and stuff like that. Although it does kind of not fit with the plot,
but we're putting it aside. And during it there's a lot of attempts to get sort of secret agents inside Cleanon high Command and to figure out what's happening, and in part because there are conflicts within the Klingons and that there are all these different Klingon groups that are fighting with each other for leadership, and so we discover Section thirty one is this group that's doing sort of
clandestine things to figure all this out. And the biggest thing they do, and the one that I think I can kind of point to as really were there their most shady is also during this part of the series spoilers for season one of Discovery, but a character who had appeared in the original pilot and had died in the original pilot, Philippa Georgio played by Michelle Yeo incredible character,
wonderfully played. Her character dies, but then halfway through the season, the version of her from the Mirror Universe, from the Terran Empire comes back over to this side and she was the emperor of the Terrant Empire, and there's all kinds of shenanigans that get involved, but the end result of it is she is, you know, finally, like Cornered. She's done all sorts of crazy shenanigans in our universe as well as the Mirror universe. She's caused the deaths
of hundreds of people. She's going to go on trial, at which point Section thirty one steps in, and I think they fake her death or some other way to sort of get her off the board, but they basically make it clear to our protagonists, Look, she has an incredibly devious mind. We need her for Section thirty one. We've made a deal to, you know, give her a pardon for all the terrible things she's done in order
for her to work for us. For some this shadowy organization, and our heroes are all pretty freaked out by this, because, you know, eight this means that she's not having any accountability for the terrible thing she does. But also if the idea is that it's the most trustworthy person who's running Section thirty one and therefore can say I won't abuse the power to do things when I shouldn't do them. Having her in that role, I think she becomes the head of Section thirty one or shortly one of the
top leaders. Seems like a really bad idea.
Which leaving off there makes the start of this section thirty one movie even more confusing and bad because she's suddenly now like on another planet not involved in Section thirty one, like semi on the lamp from them, but they know where she is.
So and my understanding is that because it's Star Trek, there's time travel involved, which will make things even more confusing because you have people from multiple time periods interacting and it's like you don't quite know when you are.
Yeah, I think the Discovery winds up jumping like eight hundred years into the future after a very rough Season two that's all about time travel. I don't know if the second thirty one part of it jumps with them. I don't remember it referenced to Section thirty one in the eight hundred years in the Future timeline, but certainly it plays a major part in their original series.
I don't remember in Discovery, but I know in lower decks we get plenty of Section thirty one references and mentions, and that's more God like post Voyager timeline.
Right, Yeah, so it certainly is existing at a number of these times. Well, so let's talk about it within Starfleet. Riki, you were saying about Section thirty one. I think the the justification for it is that they need to have it in times of crisis. As far as you can tell, does it seem to make sense for Starfleet to have this organization?
Yes, and no standard answer, right, I think in the context of this fictional universe, I think it makes sense. The way that we have the CIA and that other governments have intelligence agencies, I don't think it's good that we have these agencies. And again, like the things that they do are bad, and there should be more accountability, even within your own country's power structure for the things that people do, and there should not be off the
books things going on. But I think the idea that when you are a superpower, like in the Galaxy, that you have an organization that does things like clandestine operations should happen.
Right.
But then, like in the context of Star Trek the TV show, I'm one of those people that I enjoyed the episodes that I watched on Deep Space nine, but I don't really like it as a concept to explore in Star Trek, right, is what I would say.
We'll talk about more with the Star Trek part. I just want to start first with a starfleet aspect, abby kind of what's your take.
I think it shouldn't exist, but the fact that it does more proves my lifelong contention that Starfleet is the military as much as they claim they're not.
No. Yeah, and I think that's a really good way to put it, because I was thinking when I said starfleet should I have asked the Federation and Starfleet is often like the arm of the Federation. It's the part of the Federation that most non Federation worlds will first experience. And it feels like so much of what the Federation is all about is these ideals that it has of transparency and of open dialogue and of all, you know,
races being equal and welcome at the table. And yeah, it feels like the Federation would never want to have it, but that Starfleet would. And I actually kind of wonder if that that's part of who it is kept from it, Like do Federation high officials even know about this, or is this very much a like creation of the military itself, Because as you said, we do know star Trek intelligence. Starfleet intelligence does exist, and we know they do spying missions.
A major part of the setup for Voyager is that Tuvac was a Maquis on the ship of the Maquis, but that he was actually working for star Trek Intelligence as a spy to learn more about the Maquis and help Janeway hunt them down. And I think, I just keep going back to Riki what you're saying about, like the accountability for me. Yeah, having a clandestine organization of some kind in a world with a lot of secrets, in a world with a lot of alliances and shifting alliances.
I don't love it, but it makes sense. But when it crosses that line into we are no longer accountable, we are no longer within the chain of command, We get to just do our own thing and other people don't know about us, that's where to me both it violates the spirit of what the Federation and Starfleet are
supposed to be about. But also I think to your point Abby, like it is also completely believable that a military that is set up to fight for these ideals at some point say we've got to get our hands dirty.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I have always questioned what the heck Starfleet is and it changes from show to show, and like who the characters are because obviously in the second half of Deep Space nine, it's just the military, right, But for most of the next generation they're focused on exploration. Yeah, they get into conflicts, they have weapons on their ships, but it's very clear that in that era they are explorers and diplomats primarily.
And like in the original series era, on the one hand, they are explorers, they are diplomats. But my personal favorite movie, Raf of Khan, one of the plot points is that doctor Carol Marcus is a scientist and she does not want Starfleet getting her hands getting their hands on her Genesis project because then I think there's a direct line by one of her underlings talking about how we don't
want the military to get a hold of this. So it does at least feel like that's been a tension throughout Starfleet's history, and maybe at some points people see it more as a military and some point less I.
Think, you know, Starfleet definitely presents themselves as we are here for exploration, but it comes, I think, in actuality, it ends up being a little bit more of a colonialist mission of even when they're exploring there, we're going to try and you know, meet these new planets and get them into the Federation as opposed to right, you know, let's learn about their cultures and then take off because they're not our planet, right.
Yeah, I think it's good way to put it.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. AVI was the idea of explorers in like the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, you know, of European expansion. They they were explorers from a European perspective, but those ships were armed and they were also participating in military conquest and colonialism of other cultures.
Yeah.
Now Starfleet it's a little different because they have prime directive, but it's clear that yeh, Starfleet is also the armed military branch of the Federation.
For sure. Yeah. Yeah, and so it kind of makes sense, and I think that's It's also why I don't like the idea of it always having been part of Starfleet,
because always built into their charter. Because one thing I think that DS nine does well and I think Discovery does well, although they kind of now don't match up the timeline too well, But is the idea of the Federation and Starfleet are organizations that I built by idealists, populated by idealists who, because of some of the terrible things happening, most specifically the Dominion War, but also maybe this war with the Klingons further back in time, that
there's a loss of that idealism. And so for me, a story about how like I would love to see a story about how some group of Starfleet officers during the Clingon War or during the Dominion War kind of get together and say, Okay, well, we've always had this line in the Charter that i'veyone's forgotten about and no one does anything with. But now sort of the skins have fallen from our eyes, we think we can't just keep playing taking the high road. We've got to create
this organization ourselves. And then using that bit of the Charter section thirty one is justification because like, I like that story a lot. I still wouldn't support it, but I'd be like, that makes sense that in the in these horrible events, the cynicism is starting to take over. But the idea that it's just always been part of Starfleet doesn't make sense to me.
Well, I do want to say, like, I'm not it's not entirely clear that they've always been a part of Starfleet. Like the citation is that they they are citing the Starfleet charter as justification. But I'm not sure if it's like, okay, like we've got the charter and now we're going to
create this secret organization. I think what you're saying is probably more correct that at some point, maybe some part of the official Starfleet intelligence was like, we need we need some black ops, and this is how we're going to justify it within our ideals, like we don't have to change anything.
And the Dominion War where you literally didn't know who was who and who was a changeling instead of a real person, that would have made sense. Yeah, gosh, wouldn't it have been a great movie.
I'm very disappointed by ural's reaction to the movie. Obviously the movie was disappointing to you, But yeah, I mean what happened.
Yeah, I don't know. Not a lot. Yeah, yeah, I you know, and like they wanted in an Entry movie, I guess, And here we go. Well, and so with that, in terms of like the direction of Star Trek itself and things like that, let's pull that camera back a little bit, uh Riki, you're starting to get into this.
How do you think section thirty one fits in not only just to like in the universe of Star Trek, but for us as viewers to what we understand Star Trek to be and what we understand Gene Roddenberry's vision to be and all that.
Yeah, I mean you get into this with Star Trek fandom, right of like what it's like Star Trek as Gene Roddenberry intended or his vision or whatever. Like there's the optimism, like the utopian, post scarcity future, and then you have you know, people like even like Captain Kirk, who is a swashbuckler in space, but it's still a diplomat, like he does seek out diplomatic resolution to most of his interactions with people, especially like the Klingons.
Right, So I I you know, I said.
Earlier, I'm not a big fan of Section thirty one stories existing in the context of Star Trek because I do think like I'm a little bit more on that side of Yeah, Like, I like Geene Roddenberry had this vision of a future in this way, and I get
that to be a realistic portrayal. These things make sense to have in the world, but it doesn't mean necessarily mean we have to keep telling stories about them, right, And maybe like the interesting stories are like in Deep Space nine when the main characters come across them, and then Section thirty one is played as an antagonist within your own government.
Yeah yeah, just to kind of spell that out even further, because Jean Roddenberry part of his idea was that he didn't want internal conflict within the Federation. He wanted it to be like that there weren't lots of back deals and backstabbing and this kind of stuff, that everybody was
basically on the same page, and that got honored. I mean even by season two of the original show, they were starting to play with that a little bit, because it turns out conflict actually makes a lot better story then a lot of people just all getting along with each other. But it does feel like it's gone further and further. I know a lot of people who don't like DS nine often cite it as example of like, oh, this is exactly everything that Gene didn't want, and you know,
to me, that isn't necessarily the wrong thing. But I think having some idea of like, we want Star Trek to feel like Star Trek and Section thirty one doesn't do that does feel very fair to me. What about for you, Abby, Like we were watching all of it kind of in back to back succession. How much of a departure did Section thirty one field.
From the original series. It was definitely a departure that it felt almost nothing like anything that was mentioned there.
But I actually don't feel like the original series is a good representation of Star Trek anymore because we have so much media that's not the original series that like, right, and the original is fun to watch, But the episodes that like, I really like and really remember are mostly the ones where they do have these big, like ethical questions, right, And I think we get those with the Section thirty one episodes, a lot of like, yeah, they're doing something terrible,
but they're doing it, they say for the right reason. Usually does that justify it? Who gets to decide if that justifies it? Should you help them, should you stop them, report on it? Whatever? Those are like the questions that I want anyone who comes in contact with Section thirty one to be asking, and this movie asked none of them.
Yeah, I think it's very fair. Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it. Like, I think there's room in Star Trek, especially because, yeah, it has grown a lot from where it started under Roddenberry and I think that's a good thing, and we'll talk more about that in our bonus member section. But to encompass more of the DS nine of the world and stuff like that. But yeah, I think I always want if Section thirty one has to exist, I always want it to be
an antagonist and for it to be a protagonist. But to us be asking hard questions makes a lot of sense. But the movie, to me, is where it really crosses the line, where it is it's just a protagonist and there's a Star Trek officer who's there to be like, oh gosh, we shouldn't do this, But it's mostly played for laughs. It's never like a serious question of is this right?
For the Federation doesn't stop them for doing anything.
Yeah, So I looked at the cast list and the characters, and so you're referencing Rachel Garrett right correct, who For fans who have not watched the movie, she was the captain of the Enterprise CE and makes an appearance a guest appearance in the very popular episode Yesterday's Yesterday's Enterprise where her ship travels from the past, their past to the next generation present and so like, she is a very prominent character in Star Trek history making an appearance
here and not really doing what's expected.
I guess, yeah, I'm not.
I'm not a huge Star Trek lower person, Like I know most of the stories, but I haven't memorized all the names, so I'm I'm not surprised that I missed that name, but they were thinking on it. Now. There's nothing in that character that we saw in the show that matches up to the person in that episode. Yeah.
I mean when I say prominent character like she was in one episode, but in the the fictional history of Star Trek, like being the captain of an enterprise is.
A big deal.
It's usually the flagship, and she played a very prominent role in the conflict with the Klingons to like secure peace.
Well, and if I remember, she does that by dying, that's yeah. One of the hardest parts of the story is that her ship, because they get pulled through this wormhole, they don't get destroyed at the time they were supposed to, and like her being destroyed does something like for the morale. I don't know what, I don't remember with the details, but basically it causes an important uh you know, it's
kind of like Edith Gault no srong person. It's kind of like the person who dies in that episode of the original series where because a woman who was going to grow up to be a peace nick doesn't die, who was a peacenick already she's grown up, but because she doesn't die, she convinces America to go pacifist, and so Hitler wins. It's the same Edith Keeler, Edith Keeler, thank you, and it was. Yeah.
So the Enterprise see is destroyed by Romulins defending a Klingon base, and then the Romulins that as an honorable act and that helps pave the way for better relations with the Kingons. That's it, her time traveling disappearing, the Klingon bas is destroyed, the Federation didn't come to help, and then the Klingons are just keep staying mad.
Right, and it leads to a war.
That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah, you're right, And she's this important character and does not show up at any other place. And the other characters I don't have did we recognize any of them, Like one of them is in theory of Vulcan but it's actually like it's a Vulcan robot driven by this like much much smaller wormlike thing, but instead of it being a trill, it just drives a humanoid shaped robot. I don't think any It seemed like a cool idea. They didn't really do anything.
I mean they kind of did. It was kind of like the climax of the movie.
Yeah, I mean there's a plot. Good, Yeah, that's fair. Yeah.
I didn't recognize any of the other characters except for Georgio.
Mm hm.
There is you know, worm for brains and then Mechman, who is just a guy in a mech.
There's nothing wrong with that. They do make they do with the mech guy. They do make a comment about like just how connected is he to the mech and like they phrase it as though he has this like disorder that sounds an awful lot like gender dysphoria. It's like mecha dysphoria or something like that. And again they're
like a couple of people I've seen. We're like, this could have been a really interesting commentary on like adaptive technology and how much that becomes a part of you and like how does that connect to like, you know, changing who you are in terms of gender or in terms of these other things.
I do think they handled that pretty well in uh Lower Decks.
Though, Yes, definitely definitely, which is again part like it's funny when I understood Lower Decks to be mostly kind of like sophomore humor and parody of Star Trek, and I think there is some of that, but it also handles serious issues far better than a lot of Star Trek and especially better than this movie.
Yeah, I one hundred percent I agree with that. I think Lower Decks is a very underrated show, Like I've only seen a maybe like one season or half a season, but I enjoyed it a lot.
Yeah. Well, anyway, we're gonna wrap up with talking about what this movie could have been. I've thrown out my proposal that I would like to see the movie about, like during DS nine, the members of Star Trek Intelligence Starfleet Intelligence who decide they have to form a Section thirty one Avieriki, what do you think would have been a better version of this movie?
Just like Spy Stuff, The best to me, the best section thirty one stories are when it's like Spy Things. And this my reading of reviews and stuff is that this is a heist movie like Ocean's eleven. Like Ocean's
eleven in space with the Gardens of the Galaxy. So yeah, like I don't I don't understand what happened, of course, like the to pull back, like the production of this movie started as a TV show and changed partly because Michelle Yeo won an Academy award I think so it was like she couldn't commit to a TV show at that point because she's super famous. But yeah, I'm not
sure exactly what happened, and we may never know. And this is like, this is what happens nowadays, right, Like we see it a lot with Marvel as well, where projects change, they go from a movie to a TV show, directors change, and I don't know, it just happens, unfortunately.
Yeah, yeah, it's too bad. I mean this, I don't know if you've got the sense, Abby, but it felt to me like it was the pilot of the you know, it was a two episode length pilot to the NV show.
I could see that.
Maybe that's how the scripture, especially.
The first half.
Yeah, so kind of weird because they kill off half the crew during the course of the episode included it was an interesting characters.
I mean, the first episode of Discovery kills the captain.
So also true, also true, Abby, What about you any other other version of the story you think we've been more interesting?
I think the heist idea wasn't terrible, Like they could have made a really fun spy heist movie in space that asked ethical questions and like maybe head section thirty one questioning their orders or something along those lines, but instead they liked, let's get the gang together set up like Ocean's eleven, and then kind of turned it into for me, like the worst pieces of Guardians of the Galaxy and of Star Wars.
Yeah, yeah, because in part because there's there's a maguffin that they're trying to find, but it's never really well explained, and so it didn't really connect in any real weird way that I felt like, I think the stakes were like the universe could be destroyed, but it didn't really feel like it was very important. And the yeah, like, because I think you're right that you could have had that starfleet officer really kind of like being like, wait, why are we doing this? Should we be doing this?
Or even some of them themselves being like, wait a minute, is this really our orders? But no, my.
Ideal movie we start the same right we meet our crew. They're better than the characters we get but we meet them.
They can even keep the same you know, crazy blow up the universe tech that is their weapon, but instead of it being we have to get this to protect like protect it from whomever, make it so that they have to plant it somewhere, and then they have to question if they actually should be doing that, or if, you know, destroying an entire universe maybe isn't the best way to deal with the conflict.
Right, or even if something like maybe like the Starfleet person was told, your mission is to go destroy this weapon because no one should have it, but then section one is like, nah, we're just gonna put it in a closet in Starfleet headquarters and don't worry about it. Yeah, so well, anyway, Star Trek writers, we clearly can help fix your movies. Give us a call if you want
to get any of that help. We're gonna talk more in the bonus section about Geene Roddenberry kind of other ways which Star Trek has drifted or made intentional choices to go away from his original vision. But we hear abbey any last thoughts you have on this movie or this topic of section thirty one.
I have a question, would you recommend this movie to me or to the audience?
Don't watch?
That's what I thought, That's what I thought, but I just wanted to ask out loud.
I am an extreme lover of bad movies and bad TV. Like, yeah, anything that's got like one star, I'm usually in for it. This movie was so bad.
Yeah, it's not even like the room bad where you get to laugh at how fun it is, or you know, like sometimes there's that like, oh my god, this smells so bad, here smell it, where you just want someone else to experience it with you. I don't want that, like if nothing else. Because Michelle Yo's care like, I think she's doing her best, but her writing is awful.
They like she's an incredibly sexy woman, she's a person with incredible like magnetism and attractiveness, but they make her this like kind of clumsy stereotype of a femme fatale who's flirting and very like over the top ways that just don't make sense. And I kind of was just like, please, miss Yo, like get out of this movie, go back to winning Oscars. You're so much better than this movie. So yeah, I would not recommend it.
That's kind of what I expected the answer to be. It's obviously disappointing as a Star Trek fan and as a Michelle Yo fan.
But yeah, yeah, I want more content. I want more both well, if you do want more content of other kinds. Though, five dollars a month, fifty five dollars a year, you get bonus content at the end of most of our episodes. You get free episodes once a month. We have already done our first. We're working on our second, about some of the kind of core concepts of superhero ethics and kind of looking at in depth. We did one on
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