Hello, and welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. Friends. As many of you know, a couple of weeks ago, we got the sad news that Carl Weathers had passed away. And Carl Weathers had been a really big part of a lot of the franchises that we talk about here on Superhero Ethics. He had a very long and storied career as an actor as well as
a football player before that. And because of the way he had kept showing up in different things we love, I wanted to get a couple of people together and talk about Carl Weathers and you know, the acting that he had done and the role he'd played in different franchises we loved. And so I'm
here with Paul Hoppey and Ashley Coffin to talk about mister Carl Weathers. So Ashley, let me start with you, if you'll also introduce yourself for those who haven't heard you in a little bit, but you've been a Fredie who has been listening to these podcasts actually is a very frequent guest. But actually, what when you think of Carl Weathers, what is the first like piece of media that you think of him or the first thing you saw him in
so Carl weather It's very interesting. So Carl Weathers was a huge deal for me growing up, first because Predator was like one of my absolute favorite movies. I used to watch it all the time. And secondly, I'm from Philadelphia and very much like The Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus, you don't find out until much older that Rocky is just a movie. So we do everything. We kind of convince ourselves that that was a real person and a real
story and full of real other people. So it is, you know, just this this hero who has always kind of been in my life throughout you know, being an eighties baby and such. But it's not just the movies. It's like the best of the best movies that you rewatched through your entire lives. So yeah, I don't know, like we do this in Philly. We just have this special connection with anyone who was involved with Rocky.
It's kind of takes it to this other level. Yeah. I hadn't really thought about how much that connection is there until I saw the movie Trading Places as a kid, which also takes place largely in Philadelphia, and in the opening scene where they're establishing like the famous sites of Philadelphia. They show the livery Bell, they show statues of like Ben Franklin and other founding fathers, and they show a statue of Rocky belt Bell, which in the third movie
was erected in that city. So, Paul, what about yourself? Yeah, I mean I'd seen things that Carl Weathers had been in, I'd seen Rocky, I'd seen a bunch of things, but it was really actually when he played himself on Arrested Development that I really came to appreciate him, particularly, you know, especially as an actor. I think actors playing themselves, like, especially in a comic role, is it just so often? Is
fantastic and his is one of the best. Yep. Yeah. In preparation for this, I asked a lot of people, like, when I say Carl Weathers, what's the first thing you think of? Rocky was very common Star Wars, his roles Beef Karga and also a director for the TV show Mandalorian was pretty common. Predator came up a lot, and also the Adam Sandlers movies where he played Chubbs. I have not seen those, but it's
one more thing we'll talk about. And for me, it was also very much Rocky Rocky were some of those movies like Star Wars where I don't really remember a time when I hadn't watched them. Interesting also because I go back and rewatched Rocky and I think it's a very good movie. I think it's a movie made in a very particular time and place with a very particular class
and racial message that's really kind of uncomfortable today. But that Sylvester Stallone himself has been very upfront about, which is part of why he's been very involved
in the Creed movies, which is a whole other part of it. But that was where I knew Carl Weather's from, and you know, first knew him, of course as the villain and then of course the holler Creed, but who then comes on to train Rocky in Rocky three and goes on to tragically lose his life to Drago in Rocky four exactly exactly, terribly unfair fight. And one thing I thought was really interesting was when Carl Weathers passed away,
like I definitely had a moment like, well, that's sad. And I am not someone who generally is affected by celebrity deaths, especially if there's someone who is for the most part stopped working because in my mind, like you know, the death of any human being is sad, but if I have no direct connection to the person, then it's not really something that affects me accepting so much as and this is going to sound very so focused, I don't mean it that way, but you know, if they are actively
creating media that I'm interested in, and now that is not going to keep happening because they've passed away. For example, like with Ray Peterson who passed passed away after doing Ahsoka but was clearly supposed to be in you know, the next part to those stories, that's when it hits me a little bit more. And with Carl Weathers that was definitely the case because he has been a big part of the cast of Mandalorian, but also this had a director
of I think some of the better episodes Mandalorian. But what was interesting to me was seeing so many other people and thing people who weren't Star Wars fans come out and talk about, you know, how sad they were about this, and realizing he's had this very interesting career of like I just named a whole bunch of things that he's been in that people really love and remember him from none of which he was the star of, and like he was the
star of a couple of movies that I don't think anybody remembers. And I think there's something really interesting of an actor like this who is well known and loved but not ever for like being the headliner. He's always a secondary character, but often either one that is as the antagonist or as the sort of helper to our friend, or as a very important part of the plot but
not necessarily the driver of the plot. It's interesting with him to start at the beginning of his career because he did play college football for the San Diego as Text before playing I think professionally for the Raiders. Ye. So I can only think of one other person who was like a professional football and then like famous and acting and we all know what I'm talking about. But Ryan Boswell, I believe is his name with oj Simpson. Wow wow, but
you're probably right too, but yeah, it is. You know, it is crazy to think like that's you know, where he started and then got this. He's just so charming, like he just seems like a really nice guy and we know that he is kind of like I love the feud between him and Stallone that like stretch over a couple decades and that they worked it
out. It's just important that they worked it out. But I love it the tea And it's funny because you know, there's a lot of professional athletes who then then go on to be in movies or TV shows with varying levels of success. You're right, Oji Simpson probably the most famous. Brian Bosworth much nearer the bottom of that. But a lot of times I think of them as people who were primarily athletes who then you know, appear on screen
must be playing themselves. I didn't realized Carl Weather's not like got a college degree, but he got a master's in theatrical arts from college. And he'd always said he wanted to be an actor first and foremost. And apparently John Madden cut him from the Raiders because, in Madden's words, he was quote too sensitive to play football. I feel like Madden's cut off for that.
That's probably like a low bar to clear height. Yeah you know, but but yeah, I mean, I so I think it's I think we're lucky that Madden caught him, because you know, we got Carl Weather's career in
all these things where he does play. You know, I was, I was looking over IMDb, and I was like, oh, yeah, he was in Psych, Like he was an episode of Psych, which like I watched every episode of that show, so like I saw that episode and he's you know, he's got like one episode in this series, one episode in
this series. And you know, he wasn't often like the main star of something, but I think he always really brought something very I mean, his voice is so like strong and rich and carries so much authority and character. And then he also you can see it's like oh yeah, yeah, of course he was like an athlete, you know. I mean he has this physicality, yeah, to just his presence, like when he's doing stuff.
Yeah, but he doesn't even have to be doing anything. He can just be standing there or sitting there, and there's a physicality to his presence that then when you know, when he's then running around shooting a blaster or something, it feels just completely believable. And you know, the Mandalorian was the thing you know that most recently of course, you know, I had seen him in or the thing that came out recently most recently, and I actually
in order to in order to do this podcast. I had to make sure to rewatch the first two seasons of The Mandalorian, of course, and get my mom to watch them all. A great sacrifice, A deep, deep sacrifice. Did she like it? She did? Yeah, yeah, for the most part. I mean there's a lot of killing. There's like I get some boys like this is very vital killing for Disney, it is.
Yeah. Yeah. But like I mean, I'll just say, like Star Wars is something that the original movies and like for most of the series, I think has a real problem with age, where they basically always need the hero to be like twenty ish early twenties, and then like older characters are basically exist to either mentor the main character and then die, or to be
the antagonist against the main character and then die. And like you know, Carl Weathers was like seventy in his seventies when when he's doing Mandalorian, and
I mean I was actually surprised. I was like, oh wow, yeah, like like you know, I mean I thought he he seems like maybe in his fifties or something, and not that like seeming younger should be like the main compliment, you know, but like the point being that, like I think his role in that show, I think breaks a lot of expectations about what it means, you know, to be in your seventies and be an actor and be in a Star Wars production. You know, well,
I will say that. I think that also is what made it a little bit more shocking, because he did look like, you know, he was right doing great. And then so maybe, yeah, he was born in nineteen forty six, which means that he was you know, seventy seven or so when he passed away. It was seventy six twenty times, which is still you know, like yeah, which, yeah, if you thought he
was in his fifties, it's one more surprising. You know, obviously people can live far beyond their mid mid to late seventies, but that's also a much more common age where it's like, okay, it's not surprising some one passes away at that time and there's not the physicality of him. I remember
thinking about this, especially because actually you brought the movie Creditor. I watched that recently because on the True Story FM podcast network, our parent network, they had done an episode about the movie Predator, and so I decided to rewatch the movie one night, and like they very intentionally have Carl Weathers in a tank top showing off very large muscles, and I mean he's up against Schwarzenegger and does not look like a small person, like he looks like him
and Schwarzenegger train at the same gym and are part of the same military unit. And Schwartzeneeder is the biggest guy in the unit. But Weathers definitely looks like he can hold himself pound for pound. I mean, his muscles were like And they have him in a suit early in the episode, and it's like some tailor is fixing the seams on the biceps of that suit jacket every single day. They do before the handshake. Yep, it's my favorite. That's a that's a high bar to clear to stand next to to next to
Arnold in a tank top and not look tiny. So yeah, exactly exactly. Let's go through the different things that he's done. And I'm actually start at the beginning. I don't know how much you guys know about these movies, but with the Rocky movies, and first I think, actually you said you kind of grew up with them being taught to you as you know, Philadelphia local history, and later deserving them. He so do you see the
movies or were they just like part of the lexicon. Oh? Yeah, I mean we I feel like Rocky was always the movie that was on around the like holidays. It's almost like, you know, the super Bowl, there's Rocky, there's the things that happen around that time, and we just you know, you just watch and watch and watch and it, you know, it just becomes part of the lifestyle. And then it well, it's like because he's the bad guy, but then he comes back as the good
guy and then you're like, oh, you love him. It's funny how easily you can just switch sides from you know, we don't like this guy too, Yeah we love him. Yeah. What about you, Paul? Were they movies you saw? So I only have seen the first Rocky movie and the first Creed movie. Okay, I think, Wait, did I see some like Rocky seven or twelve or something? You never saw Rocky too? You never saw him? Win? I did not. I did not. Yeah, I only saw the first Rocky movie, and I saw it
when I was like in my early twenties. I think no, definitely, and I was I was practicing martial arts seriously at the time, And yeah, I think it's a really actually a really good movie, you know that. I think it's not like just like a random sports movie, and I would I would push back on the word villain, like you do you think he was a villain or just like the antagonists slash rival kind of when you're from Philadelphia, anybody who's against your you know town, right right, right
is a villain. Everybody that the Eagles play is a villain. Yes, right, yeah, look they boot Santa Claus, Okay, have their own team. We just do things that are right. Yeah, yeah, I will, I will take back the word villain. Well, I think that's you said. In fact, I think, you know, like I said, as someone who watched the movies very early, at a very early age, and like I would act out the boxing scenes but have no real idea
like all the levels happening in the movie and then rewatching it later. In many ways, I think it is his his acting as Apollo Creed that really helps to save the movie from not kind of going off the edge that it could. Because I agree with Paul, I think it's a very well made movie. Won Best won the Academy Awards the Best Movie, and I think deservedly so. And I mentioned that, like some of it's kind of uncomfortable because it is about, you know, a white working class hero taking on
the person who's very clearly a Muhammad Ali stand in. He's very showy, he's very savvy, and I think it's easy to look at the movie and say, oh, this is supposed to be about the great white hero pushing back against you know, uppity black people, and people who see Rocky that way in the movie are definitely in the movie. But I think that one of the key points of it is that Rocky himself is trying to push back
against that. And the way Carl Weathers played Apollo Creed really speaks to that because he does what is clearly a Muhammad Ali you know, stand in without it becoming parody and without it becoming black exploitation satire kind of a thing,
you know. He he's portrayed as this very savvy businessman and someone who was also like even his character, especially in the second movie, is kind of trapped by the expectations of you know, oh, is a black man, You're supposed to do even better than anyone else, and how could you have this white guy almost beat you and stuff like that. And I'm just really
watching it again. I was really impressed with his acting, as it would have been very easy to just throw off Zingers and be this beautiful black man, which he very much is, but he really takes the role a lot deeper, and I think it's a I don't think his part is big enough for him to get nominated for anything, but I think he was a very important part of making the movie as good as it was. Yeah, well, still don't put everything that he was into the making of that movie.
So every role was cast with intention and like there was a reason that, you know, Carl got that role. Yeah, and then, as you said, in later movies, who goes on to be the the the antagonist again in the second one and then the third he comes back to help train our hero after he has defeated Hulk Hogan but lost to mister t proving that the A team can beat up professional wrestlers. And and there's this great, you know, I of the Tiger idea that that that comes from. That's
where the Tiger comes from. And it's very much about everything has been set up till now in Philadelphia, and the gym's there, and this is now about Apollo Creed taking Rocky back to La back to his part of the world, and yeah, it just it's the movies go downhill pretty solidly after the
first. But but his roles are always a lot of fun. And I mean just in terms of the role, like, that's a hard role to pull off where you have to be you have to have the physicality and the athleticism to be able to convincingly convincingly look like a professional boxer, not just professional boxer, but a champion, right, and then also have the charisma to you know, do the kind of like show business kind of kind of side of the role. And you know, I think that's like a perfect
role for him, Yeah, because he has shows. Yeah, because especially when you think of someone being a professional athlete, you're like, Okay, this person's going to meet a meathead, you know, and that's very much not who he is. Well, you do have a lot of athletes who just like have that pizaz thing, and I feel like he could have been one of them. Imagine if he kept going and was like, yeah,
great in a quarterback, he would have that right right. Yeah. And it's interesting because then he plays kind of a similar role in Predator, which I imagine I'm the only one who's seen in the last ten years. I watched Predator once a year. Oh okay, no, you seed a lot of one night. Yeah, that's my I think we've decided in this household that Predator or is the best action movie ever made. Yeah, I've never seen Predator. I don't know. It is a good movie. It's very
actually looks betrayed positively, just like deeply stricken. Oh, I have an episode that we're doing some point over the summer. I think, yeah, please don't watch it until we can talk about it. Then, Okay, yeah, I know you're not something an instant reaction. I like that. I did because, I mean I understand I've seen Alien Verse, Predator No, not very good, not very good one. It's really bad. And I I have seen like five minutes of Predator when it was on somewhere,
so I'm Predator. But I mean it's a horror movie basically, right, I mean it's actually the horror one, the one. Now, did you ever see the Monster Squad? No, never mind, No, I mean I'm familiar with the idea of Predator. I was just going to say the makeup inspired that much of it. Oh okay, Okay, Yeah, I would say it's an action movie more than a horror movie, but it has
some like okay, it's side fi. Yeah, but in it what the ray I said is kind of a similar role because Carl Weathers plays again someone who is very clearly like a special Forces guy with the same physicality of Schwarzenegger. But the idea is that he's now gone to work for the CIA. Oh okay, And I won't spoil anything in terms of the role he plays, but he they kind of tease him about like, oh, you were always the smart one on the team, right, and he has the charisma
and the responsibility there, and again he really shines in that role. Yeah, and I'll say, like a lot of athletes have charisma, but to be able to pull off your charisma on screen is like another thing, you know, Like that's a different that's a different skill to be able to. I mean, there's some people who might not even have that much charisma person to person, but then like on screen, all of a sudden, you know, they bring out now fall into that loop of just oh, I'm
the same person in every movie. I'm just this guy, right, I'm just playing myself. It's like, yeah, or this particular character that's just you can put them into any movie. It's like, no, this is an actual person here with their own you know, subtleties and motivations. And especially with both Apollo Creed and his character and Predator I forget the name of
in Maywea, it's not even just a chrisma. It's the intelligence, because these are both characters who are thought to be like able to come out smart everybody else and be a couple of steps ahead of them and in terms of the game, and I think intelligence is often actually Dylan. Sorry out Dylan, I'll do it. I was like, it's right there. I was just like, Matt, Matt, Matt, it's not Matt Dylan, that's his. Uh. Now, from there, I think we go into the
Adam Sandler of it all. And I am not an Adam Sandler fan, so I have not seen those appearances of his. I believe he's a he plays the sort of very aggressive professional golfer. I would say, if you don't like Adam Sandler movie, he's the one to watch. Is probably Happy Gilmore. Okay, that's the golfing one, right, yeah, Yeah, And if you like golf at all, because it's not him doing like the Billy Maddison like I'm just doing baby voice and swan and blah blah blah.
This one actually has a pretty good story and Carl's great in it. It is very funny. So who does Carl play? Is he again an antagonist? He is like an old golf professional who's going to teach him how to like up his golf game so we can win this tournament to help his grandma who's going to lose her house, and he has to make money, like that's what happened Happy, And he has this just crazy hit so he can drive the ball, but he's not good on the putting when you get out
to the thing. And that's where Carl comes in. So he this is Rocky three Carl. It's all in the hips, because I know Adam Sandler loves movies to be self referential. In the like is there a reference to the to teaching Happy Gilmour The Eye of the Tiger? I don't think so, Okay, I really don't. It's been a lot, it's been a minute. Listeners write it in. I guarantee I would bet my house that in some version of a script that line was in there. Maybe Carl Weathers
was like nah, he was all smooth jazz about it. He was like, you know, and then he has this alligator who's after him. It's a whole thing. Nice. Nice, And I have not I've watched very few. I was about to say, Billy Madison movies, h and tell me about him in Arrested Development, because I vaguely he's playing a version of himself who is kind of how I remember, kind of a little down on his luck and kind of like making money off of being Carl Weathers. But
I don't really remember much more. Yeah, so I mean he plays himself and I think he's he's an acting coach for that's right, it's Tobias Tobias Fume kids. He's just like he's like, I'm going to make us money
back. Yeah, Lindsay's husband, right, and like he's a very struggling actor and you know, therapist and he's yeah and so like and then like Carl Weathers will like pop up just like randomly from time to time and yeah, he's like funny and kind of threatening and like yeah, you know, and it's it's just it's one of those things where it's like he's clearly not
taking himself too seriously. You know. It's it's like like the the Matt Damon cameo in Entourage, or the Keanu Reeves cameo in Always Be My Maybe, where like they're playing like kind of ridiculous versions on themselves. Yeah, you know, I mean it's not maybe quite as out there, but it's like within the context of the show, it's just like it like it pops, you know, in a way. Neil Patrick Harris playing himself like a parody version of himself in the uh White Castle, the White Castle, Will
and Kumark go to White Castle always strikes me for sure. It's good that uh, it's good when people can laugh at themselves very much. But he Carl So, Carl Well he got the role of Apollo Creed because he made fun of Stallone his He criticized his acting in the Uh Yeah, and that led to him getting the role like, oh, we have this like thing
that we can work with. And then like years later, when Stallone was doing the newer One, he asked whether it's mister t and Dulph longeran from permission to use their footage from the appearances in the earlier Rocker Mo Rocky movies and mister t and Longren uh agree, But Carl was like, I want
to part in the movie. And he's like, but your character's dead, and he's like, I don't care, Like I want to be in and Stallone refused, and Weathers decided to not let him use his image for the flashbacks from the previous films, So they use footage from Fighter which looks similar to Weathers, but they did patch up their differences, and then Weathers agreed to allow them to use footage for what Creed the twenty fifteen one. Yeah, yeah, because Creed is about Apollo, Creed's son, right, so
you would think he would let it. Yeah. He was like, no, I want to be back from the dead, and they're like, I can't do that. Like Apollo had a twin brother and now he's coming to a venge. See that's not that hard. See now you can kind of see where he was coming from, exactly right, exactly now. Actually, I think of you as one of the first people who knows most about the
sort of behind the scenes inside Hollywood tea kind of situations. I know that during the eighties and nineties Stallone and Schwarzenegger had this big rivalry with each other. Weathers was on screen with both of them. Was he did he ever take a side in the Stallone sworts? I think that he was just super cool about it, Like I never heard that he took a side, But he was just friends with everybody, and that's what you got to do.
You just have to. And I feel like he kind of rode that through his entire career, like nobody ever seemed to have an actual problem with Carl Brothers, Like he was just the cool guy that everybody liked. And that's what you got to do in life, in work, you have to find that sweet spot so you could just coast through. I have not figured that out yet. Oh, if I very much am not. I can't imagine Paul would be very good at that. I was going to say that sounds
very relatable to me. They're kind of like being friends with two people who are mad at each other and seeing both of their perspectives and why each of them is mad at the other and be like, Okay, I see where you're coming from, but I also see where they're coming from. But I'm not going to talk too much about their perspective unless I feel like you're in a in a mood, in a mindset where this might be a good time, you know, and like kind of trying to help people sort of square
things away. But like if that's not where they're at, like that's okay. We could just be friends and then I can be friends with this other person, and like it's just it's okay, it's okay. Useful skill. It's a useful skill. It has its place. One thing that I really love is his uh. I looked on his IMDb today and his movie career began in nineteen seventy three, and it's just like and you know, passing
in twenty twenty three. It's just this like time capsule of the best of the best of you know, film movies, evolving cinema, and he got to be involved with all of it. Yeah, Like if you watch that first Rocky movie, it's from nineteen seventy six, and it is, as I agree with Paul, it's a very good movie. It is a real picture of how much movies have changed in fifty years. Yes, I would say the average word per dial average like word per minute of dialogue in that
movie is half as much as most modern movies today. And granted it's because like a lot of it is you know, fight montages and training montages and stuff like that, but also just there's so much said in silences and in looks people give each other and just these like sweeping shots you know, of things, and so yeah, it's just kind of like a trip back of
memory lane of how movies used to be made. Yeah, I mean it's a half century of you know, to go from shooting on film in Rocky to you know, shooting in front of the volume on the Mandalorian where it's just like it's a totally different process, right, I mean you're, yeah, you're still standing somewhere pretending to be someone you're not, unless you're pretending
to be you, it's a different version of you that you're not. But like, you know, so like the core skill is the same, but just like what's surrounding you and the way the process is, you know, the technical side has changed so much, and you know, the the number of scenes or number of shots you know, per minute or per hour, per per movie, you know, has has changed dramatically and personally, I really do enjoy older styles of filmmaking a lot and enjoy when we see more
of that in in modern films, you know, I mean like speaking of the volume, and you know, the same director of photography as a Mandalorian like The Batman, I think, has probably a lot fewer scenes per hour. Maybe not per movie because it's so long, but you know, but like just a willingness to kind of like hang on something because it feels like, yeah, this is this is how long I want this scene to be, not like Okay, how long do I think someone's attention span is gonna?
You know, we need to like go go go. Mandalorian actually is a little bit of a throwback in that way where you know, you think about, like the episodes aren't that long, and so they don't necessarily always hold on things that much, but like if they shot all of those episodes at kind of the pace that a lot of things these days are shot at, like maybe fifteen minutes long. Oh yeah, they remind me of old
seventy spaghetti western. Yes, yeah, yeah, I love like the weekly show that everybody has to watch, and that's what I love about The Mandalorian, And I hope they don't lose that as it just starts to get bigger and bigger. Definitely true. Yeah, well, so let's talk with him on the Mandaloriana And for what was your thought when you first heard the Carl Weathers was gonna bet involved with this project kind of like everything else, I'm like, oh, it's adorable, yay, you know, because you just
like him. Yeah, yeah, I mean I'd said I didn't hear that he was going to be involved in it. I just saw him on it, you know, because that's that's sort of how I do, but that
is how you did. Yeah, But like from the first episode, you know, I thought he was great, and then actually he played a pivotal role in me really getting through the Mandalorian and getting to like one of the favorite Star Wars episodes of anything, like even like and orwithstanding and or like you know, because when we were covering that season two, right, and I kind of like did some episodes and not some episodes, and I wasn't
really sold on the show in season two, and then like that fourth episode just like I felt like, I mean collectively, but like he was the director and he was one of the main characters, one of the drivers of the plot. It just recaptured the like a new hope like the vibe, the feeling, the essence of like og Star Wars, you know, in a way that just like brought me right back in, you know, and and he was a huge part of that. Yeah, I want to like
with him in Star Wars for second sec. I want to talk about him in Mandalorian for in a second. But I just want to say first one of the things that I realized that I hadn't really thought about much since I was a kid, but was kind of reminded of when I heard that he was going to be in this. I think I saw him in a preview, and this is kind of a self admittance of something that was not great, but I think was It's kind of the illustration of how these things work
in our world. You know. As a young kid, I wasn't exposed to a lot of black people in TV and movies and stuff like that. And the two things I was watching more than anything were Rocky and Star Wars. And I thought that Carl Weathers and Billy Williams were the same person. So that's a big thing in our household. And I'm really glad that you brought it up, because I didn't know how to approach it. Katie and I have been under scrutiny for a very long time for our husbands because we
do this all the time. And I was raised with Carl Weathers and I still do it. Yeah, it's the mustache. It's because and I know, no, there's no excuse for it. No, it just happens. Yeah, And I think I was probably probably on like ten or twelve when I realized him doing it. And and but you know, again the way race plays out or something that that happened, and so in some there's in some way in my head like having Carl Weathers be in Star Wars was like,
this feels right. You know I always thought he was before. He's a different person. This is good. And yeah, I'm glad other people had the confusion, you know, I think again side of how you know, I got a text that said, oh no, Billy Deve Williams passed away because it is it still happens today. Yeah, no, no, no, because making oh okay, got it, got it? Yep? That makes sense. Yeah, And I was like, you can just go right, you know, you could just go john yourself. Yeah, you
can go shove yourself right in a john Yep. There are two different John two different actors. But yeah, so it's real good and I agree with you, Paul. He we'll get even in the second season for sure, But even in the first season, he really feels like the moral heart of the show because he is the person who is you know, he's the clear closest representative of the world that Mando was leaving behind. Don't trust him. You don't trust him in the beginning though, because you know, you know,
if you're a you know he's going to backstab someone. But he is, and he didn't know. He's just part of the Guild. He's part of the you know, he wants Manna to come back to the Guild and then has to send people after Mando, and you know he hates doing it. But then and then even that, yeah, you know, in the final episodes of the first season, I don't believe he's on the up and
et because he wasn't. He wasn't he was going to betray him, and then he got you know, scratched by a dragon and healed by a you know, yeah, he felt he basically had the same thing that Mando had. Manda was not planning to save this child until it like, you know, it was super cute. Yeah, I still don't think to put a spell on him, little old Jedi truck, you will take care of me. But I just love how he becomes there for the part of the team
and he's part of the breakout, and yeah, you're right. In season two he continues to be a major part of the show and season three as well, which I did not rewatch because you know, just reasons, but just because and I felt like I had enjoyed his characters and the other stuff. I had never seen the emotional range though from him that I saw in Mandalorian. You know, like he's not just good at being a happy, go lucky, you know, intelligent businessman kind of you know, or like
sneaky operative kind of person. You know, in this he had real grief. He had real you know, ups and downs and things like that, and I grief. Well, yeah, exactly exactly, And it just he I think one thing that can be hard when you take someone who's veray known
for a certain kind of thing and put him into another. Like the first couple of times I saw Patrick Stewart and other things, it was very weird to me because to me, he's first and foremost a Starfleet captain, and I get over it eventually, but it's in Carl Weather's like he seemed like such a product of the eighties and of that kind of like action movie thing, right, But he fit perfectly into Star Wars in a way that I
just because that's a seventies eighties kind of thing. Yeah, and if you're from there, you just kind of fit right in and everyone's like ah. But like I think if Schwarzenegger showed up, or Stallone showed up or some like other they peppered Stallone and Guardians of the Galaxy, it's kind of the same thing. I'm that to me as an example, Like I liked Stallone's
character, but he always felt super wrong to me. It always was like, that's that's not that's not an EMCU actor, that's that's Stallone doing a cameo in the Guardians. I agree. There are people who tend to pop out of whatever they're in and just feel like like, yeah, this like if you put Tom Cruise in a period piece, it feels weird. Yeah,
you know. I think that's a great example, not just because having him be the main character of the Last Samurai is like a Choice, there's the Last Samurai and then he was great as that blonde vampire and then oh wait he played the stat right, Yes, yeah, yeah, yes,
I know he was. But he's still to me, he still feels like of this era, you know, or maybe the twenty thirty forty years ago era, but like there's there's a there's a feeling to him that feels like I feel like some people feel like they're of their time, and then there's some people who feel like timeless, and then maybe there's some people who feel
like they're not in the right time, you know. But like just I just feel like there's certain certain actors, you know, who just feels like, yeah, you can you can PLoP them in certain periods and it's like, ah, yeah, I can see that person being in Victorian England, you know, or being in you know, like I haven't seen The Great Wall another like Curious Choice movie, but like I feel like Matt Damon Matamon yeah, and like Willem Dafoe. I'm like, I actually really want to
see it now, and I have a lot of bits on it, but like I've never laughed so hard you've seen it? Oh yeah, oh yeah, just I could watch it for free Stone off the yet Yeah, yeah, I feel like just and granted the most recent Dunkin Donuts accent does not help this. My brain will automatically add a Boston accent to anything else. He met Damning today. I'm sorry about the donuts. He was like, I'm so sorry. I appreciate I laughed. I did laugh at I watched
The Martian recently and kept thinking something was off with my sound. They realized, no, he's just not doing the Boston accent. Yeah, well, I mean Boston accent is very Star Wars, right. We have you know, Cliff from Cheers. We have I feel like Bill Burtilbert doing yeah a little bit, a little bit. And we have Donnie Yen who has like a Boston slash Hong Kong accent. You know, he lives on the side of the planet where all the possums. He's where the brown coats are.
Yeah, yeah, I like it. I like it. Anything else we want to say about Weather's in Mandalorian, which Weather's in general. I'm just glad that, you know, I got to live in the same world as him. You know, I got to see his art and enjoy it. And we'll get to like I said, we watch Predator at least once a year. It's our favorite, and we watch Rocky all the time, but Predator probably a little bit more. It is our favorite action movie, and you know, will be until the day I die. And I hope I
can pass that off to some child so that they continue it. Not mine, but not yours, Yeah, somebody else's. Yeah. Yeah, I'd say, like, I'd like to thank him for helping save the Mandalorian for me, because you know, I just got to like re experience the end of that season for the second time, you know, like through someone else's eyes, you know, I like, wait, that's not it? Oh? Is that? Oh? Is that Luke Sky? No, he didn't direct that one. He directed, Yeah, the Siege episode. Yeah.
Yeah, But you know, between his directorial talents and and his you know, his I mean it wasn't specifically his role in that, it was that whole episode, but it you know, it brought me back into something that
I love. And I'm looking forward to seeing him in Predator. And you know, I didn't rewatch Arrested Development before this, and and so I didn't have as many specifics to say about it, but like I do look forward to to seeing that again and remembering his performances and that, Yeah, I think maybe sometimes when the three of us can be physically in the same place, we could watch The Predator and then just throw a microphone in between us
and talk about it, because well, I'd love to get Paul's reactions to it. You said you're going to be here in like three weeks, so feared it out, all right? Well, yeah, yeah, I think I just echo both of you. You know, I don't. I'm sure they'll figures out something to do with his character for Mandalorian season four. He wasn't, you know, super essential to a lot of the plot, but I did. I really liked where he was going in terms of becoming the
mayor and you know, having really settled down. And again, I don't want to compare him to land o'kel Rizzian necessarily as the two black people in Star Wars until we get to the sequels, but I did had kind of loved the idea that he'd also you know, gone respectable, and you know, I'm sorry you won't get to see more of that, and I'm I'm especially think kind of sorry that to my understanding, he hadn't done much directing until very recently, and I think it's kind of a shame that he was
a good job. He did a good job at directing these episodes, and I would have loved to see him more, both in front of him behind the camera. So, you know, when someone passes away in their seventies, I don't I don't think I can say it's like a tragic thing. You know. I'm, of course, with great sympathy for his family.
I think he had a very a life, very well lived. But I think we'll definitely miss him and and just really glad we got to get together and talk about some of the great things he's done, and uh, you know, be sad about the fact that we won't get see morem Yeah, I mean I still see it as a tragedy. Not I understand like the sort of difference whatever like these but like these days, like I don't know, I feel like people should live to one hundred, like you know,
just like give give like a century. I don't know, I don't want to. If you don't want to, I can't even get up. And I'm like that, But see that doesn't have to be the way it is, Like that's not that's not a necessity, you know. And I mean people can be very healthy and be you know, in action series into their seventies and probably eighties, and you know, but oh, I just wanted to say, like, he does have seventeen directing credits if you want to
go back. And that's like silk Stockings. And is that a sex Is that like a sexy one? Yeah? I think so that's a that's a TV series that's like a skin imax. I think my thought thought, you know, a little bit more respectful than that. It was. It was on USA when I was about thirteen, so I do you remember it well? After? It was a buddy cop like TV procedural about two cops who
would investigate murders among like the Hollywood you know. So it was always like sexy starlet's getting killed and dockings, Wow, yeah, finding two dudes. Two dudes were the leader of silk Stockings. No, no, a woman? Okay, good. It was very much did they have a will they want a relationship? Oh of course, well just breathing in each other's mouth or a will they? And will they? I don't know, yeah exactly.
He also directed an episode of Hawaii five, Oh the New one Law and Order, you know FBI, so so yeah, there's you know, there's some there's some directorial credits you can investigate. Would I would imagine that they were just like, oh, you've never directed anything, here's the panavision and whatever, like just go to and start right right. Yeah, showed me a short film something. If I was a young and upcoming like producer at Disney and Carl Weathers is in front of me, I'd be like,
you can do whatever you want. I'm in charge and you're my idol. Let's go balls to the wall. You want to direct? Yeah, he's directing now, you know. I think Feloney hadn't done any live action right before he directed. No, I don't think so. They called it like they George Lucas call him and be like, you're going to be in charge of everything Star Wars, and he was like, I think I had a
stroke. Could you imagine? No? Yeah, I could have like have a Figy Comby and be like, you know what, you're gonna head up our X Men development crew and you're gonna tell us what we should and shouldn't do. I would fall out of my own body. Yeah, you know, someday Disney is going to have someone take over some part of the Marvel Star Wars universe whose name doesn't begin with an F, and it's going to be the end of an era. Yeah all right, well, thank you
both so much. For more of Paul's stuff, check out Zen Madman and all the places. Links are in the show notes. But actually you haven't been on a little while, and you are a very busy podcast tricks out
there. Where can people find you? You can find me at Bill and Ashley's Terror Theater for all Things Horror if you're into how horror movies get made to the end of you know, production and the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast where we're talking about all things Marvel and everything on the strain of Pena Network.
Yeah, definitely check out all that. I have not been following all of the Marvel stuff these days, but Echo for my own personal reasons, as they talked about a lot on my own other podcast, this podcast on this very exactly, let me start that again. Yeah, definitely check those podcasts out. I'm not a horror fan, but Bill and Bill and actually makes me love horror movies through their description and they do it in a way that
I think if you've seen the movie, you're gonna love it. But when I have no idea what the movie is, they still describe it enough that I can go along on the journey with them. But especially the MCU cast,
it's the podcast that inspired me to get started. Matt and Jeff were already so good, but it got so much better when Ashley you came on and Echo is probably the most important media that's ever come out in my life for me personally because of the disability representation, specifically of me as a prosthetic user. You've probably heard my own episodes about it on this show, but they did fantastic episode by episode of coverage definitely worth checking out, So please
check out all those things. Check out Zen Madman. We're gonna have some bonus content for you about other sports stars who've become professional athletes and things like that. You can check all that out if you're a member. Just five dollars a month fifty five dollars a year bonus content, ad free content, and a great way to support this podcast, So please stick around if you're a member. For everybody else, thank you so much. We have spoken.
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