Navigating Relationships as a Freelance Model - A Deep Dive!

This is a disclaimer for this episode about relationships and modeling. Jules and I are both in heteronormative relationships, and we are going to be giving our insight about, based on our experiences, what it's like to be a model who is in a relationship. We're going to be talking about our exes and what it's like for other people that we've talked to in the industry and just sharing some insight and information about the modeling industry and how it affects our relationships.

But please be noted that there is binary terminology being used because that is our experience. So thanks for listening and I hope this finds you well. Music. Welcome to Sunrise Live, the podcast where we have deep conversations with fellow freelance models. And today I have another special deep dive episode that I wanted to talk about. And I have my friend Jules, who was on the podcast about a year ago, with me here to talk about what it's like to be modeling while in a relationship.

Hi, nice to talk to you again.

Thank you. I'm so excited to go down the rabbit hole with you like doing doing the interviews and getting to know people on the podcast is cool but finding ways to kind of go down the rabbit hole like a little bit deeper on certain topics has been pretty fun for me lately and I'm happy that you are down to talk about modeling while in a relationship because historically celebs or like people in the public view have been kind of weird about like exposing the fact that they're in

a relationship and I think that that's a stigma that's changing but that's definitely something that I'd like to talk about maybe to start off with so like what what is your like view from your perspective of what it's like to be a person in the spotlight whether it's a actor musician model singer and And expose or not expose the fact that you're in a relationship.

Oh, I think that's interesting that you said that historically celebs that are people in the spotlight kind of keep the relationship, you know, under wraps or they're weird about it. Because when I started modeling, I was in a relationship and everyone told me to not tell people that I was in a relationship because it would ruin my branding and it would make me less marketable. But I'm a Cancer. I'm a Cancer too. So that's like not really like an option for my personality.

I'm not really someone who like hides my relationships away. And even now in my current relationship with my fiance, I'm like very like publicly in love. I talk about him all the time. My Instagram is riddled with all of our work, which is really cool. And I'm very passionate about being his number one fan. Oh, and that's part of the reason why I wanted you to be my partner for this podcast episode, because you are open about your relationship.

Yeah, I love Zach. He's pretty great. I met him in 2022 shooting with him up here in Buffalo.

That's awesome. That's so awesome. I do want to get down to the topic of dating as a model and then photographers and models in relationships.

But like let's dive into that one in a little bit because like there have been some things that influenced me as well when it came to exposing whether or not I was in a relationship on social media one thing that I was influenced by a while ago like early in my modeling was I'm not super like into pop culture I don't follow it super closely I mean I read people magazine when I was like 15 so that was like an exposure but i remember he listens to

the band the white stripes do you like the white stripes i don't like them very much okay we used to rap girly but i'm doing so the white stripes thing was it's jack white and meg white they're like they were saying that they were brother and sister and i was like oh that's cool he's in a band with his sister like Like she was the drummer and he's like the singer guitarist, right? Okay. Ah. And I always thought it was super cool that, like, there was a brother and sister, like, band.

But then later on, it came out in, like, the tabloids or whatever that it actually wasn't his sister, that they were in a relationship together. And I was like, why would they lie and say that they were brother and sister? Doesn't that make it more weird? That's a weird thing. Like, so, and I remember telling my friends, everybody check this out. It's a brother and sister band. And then later finding out that they were lying about that for their branding.

Like, I would have listened to them either way, you know? Yeah, very true. I feel like a lot of models, or I guess people in general, like, they are very different than their brand. Their brand is, like, not who they are. And I think a lot of people are starting to realize that. And that's why it becomes more comfortable for us to talk about our relationships and, like, our personal lives.

It's no longer about this like perfectly curated cookie cutter idea of who we want people to see people I think connect more authentically with us when we're being authentic too and I think that changed a lot of the modeling industry made things a lot more different than when I first started modeling like 11 years ago yeah yeah definitely like back in the America's next top model era, that was my mentality as well.

I was like, oh, I have to present myself as a fantasy, not who I really am, because I felt like who I really am is not what the public wants, right? They want to be with me. They want to pretend like I could potentially be their girlfriend. And if you expose, you have a relationship that would ruin the fantasy, right? Yeah, I totally get that. I remember... Like when I first started modeling, people kind of were trying to assist me on like how to brand myself.

And it always kind of came back to like a petite Southern belle, girl next door kind of look, which is like literally virtually opposite of who I am as a human being, except I am petite. That's the only thing. You're petite.

That's not the only thing. yeah it's kind of interesting how other people's ideas that they give to us end up being these ideas that we we feel like we have to follow yeah but in the end it's i find especially with like today's current era of social media and authenticity like if they find out if your public finds out that you're lying to them, that kind of like ruins your social merit, right?

Yeah, definitely. I think that there's a lot to be said today about honest people in all entertainment industries being the people who have the most success. The people that I see in big pop culture and then within our local community, you know, in the freelance modeling world who have the most issues are people who are dishonest and are the people who aren't being upfront about.

Who they are you know all those little small nuances that come with the industry too yeah and i think there's a lot of people even within our close circle of other models that we communicate with like on our secret chat rooms and stuff there are people that are like strictly i wouldn't say strictly business but they're strictly they are their brand on.

Their modeling social media and then they have a private life that like they don't let the rest of the world and i do respect that but i also find it's harder to like like if i was a fan and i wanted to go down the rabbit hole and like follow this person and like buy their calendar or whatever i would want to get to know them and if they're not providing a lot of information about themselves by sharing on social media then i wouldn't be as inclined to you know follow them

which like back in the magazine days that wouldn't matter at all and i think that there are a lot of models out there that they don't care about what their fans think of them they're just you know getting bookings with photographers and you know making ends meet and i totally understand that and i'm a little bit i'm a little bit jealous of that if i could compartmentalize but i can't compartmentalize i have to i just can't like be like you said earlier the cookie cutter version

of what i think a model should be i have to i have to be myself and share my goofy memes and occasionally rant on social media i'm the same way people are always like. Really taken back especially like because I'm from Houston and I've heard a lot of Houston things a lot of Houston memes even though I live in New York now and I like very regularly like make fun you know a bunch of.

Different like stereotypes that like Houstonians make fun of like Dallas we have mad beef with Dallas for whatever reason and people are always like aren't you like thrown like people would think I think that people have this idea that that throws people off from working with me but actually I have people tell me all the time that they think my posts are really funny and they think that like I'm goofy and that they like were intimidated by my work but when they saw me being silly online

or you know arguing with people over dumb mundane things like Big Red versus Loganberry that like that personality comes and it makes me more friendly more approachable because I look like a real human and not like a fake version of what people perceive me as yeah no I totally get that I've got some questions from the online Instagram poll that I did that I'd like to bring in to generate the conversation here and this one person is asking if your other half tells you to stop modeling would you

it's so funny because I've never.

Really been in that predicament before I've never even in my previous relationships with people who didn't really understand the industry street no one ever told me to stop so I'm gonna say probably not that's like asking you know them to stop working at their nine to five that they do this is what I put my whole adult life working on this is my whole career that's not to say I want to do it forever I definitely want to go on to other things in my life as I get older but I don't

see me ever stopping for anyone but myself. That's a good answer. And I'm kind of the same way. Like I have never had a boyfriend tell me to stop modeling. However, when I started modeling, the boyfriend that I had at the time did say negative shit about it. Like the way that I was 19 and the way that I shared the fact that I was doing nude and lingerie modeling was by I made him a little like romantic booklet that had love poems and then pictures.

And I gave that to him. And that was how I dropped the bomb that, by the way, I'm also doing this. And I really can't, though. Thanks. Yeah, I'm trying to sweeten the package. And he said that he thought that the pictures were slutty.

He didn't tell me to not do it he just said the pictures were slutty and that he wished that i wouldn't be posting slutty pictures online so i've done it's like it's kind of like a backhanded thing i think that there are other things that might be even more subtle that some significant others might do or say that might like imply that they wish that you weren't doing that my hair every time i went on a trip my ex would fight with me i would not even be out

of the door and we would be having some kind of dumb argument about dishes not being cleaned or me not spending time with him before i left because i was packing you know all kinds of really dumb petty things and i hear a lot of.

I hear a lot of very similar stories from a lot of my model friends with significant others who either aren't supportive or not in the industry i think i'm really blessed that my fiance is a photographer because he is super kind he goes to all my shoots now he's very supportive of all the things i'm doing i think he just cares mostly about my safety you know there's so many odds and ends out there in the world when we're touring that i think are scary for anyone in a relationship with

paddling models to go through lots of crazy people like my underground bunker man from the last episode so you know car troubles or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time all kinds of stuff that yeah i think is more. Anxiety inducing than if we had a normal job at an office right but what we do is kind of of unpredictable because things could pop up that are unforeseen, which if you went to the same office every day would be less likely to happen, I suppose. Yeah, definitely.

We've all had some very interesting times on the road. Yeah. One of my ex-boyfriends prior to Travis, he wouldn't tell me to stop, but he would... Pretty much kind of tell me that the reason why I'm a nude model is because he told me that I have daddy issues that I needed to get over and like if I was you know mentally sound that I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing which you know I was kind of offended by so it was like it wasn't him telling me that I should stop.

It was him telling me that my career is a side effect of my own mental. Downfall or emotional downfall of some kind. So it was kind of a put down in a way where he was framing it like he was worried about me, but it was more kind of a condescending sort of a tone.

And every time I went on a trip, he would always guilt trip me about how, oh, I'm so lonely when and you're not here and I'm not even going to touch myself when you're gone because I'm going to struggle this whole time just so that I can save it for you and I'm like okay well these guys so wacko I'm like I understand that you are alone when I'm gone but I am this is what I have to do for my income like I have you have to go on tour if you're going to do this

full time like you have You can't just stay in the same city and make a full time income as a freelance model. Like, I mean, I guess you might be able to, but I think pretty much all of us travel, right? Even if it's just like, you know, the next city over. When I lived in Texas, I spent a long time only traveling between Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio. And I just did a little cute triangle, you know, every few months.

And that's like how I... Texas is huge, though. But that's how I did it before I started doing cross country tours and I started to bridge out more. Yeah, I think that also, I don't know if this is something you've experienced in your previous relationships, but my previous relationship, I lived with my exes and I think that they really became kind of relied like they relied on my very, like my income coming in so big and quick.

They were very used to me being able to just be gone for a weekend and come back with a bunch of money and that was like a security net for the van.

Also and I feel like so even though they didn't like what I was doing they were like oh well you know but it's fine though because you'll come back with a lot of money I'm going to give you a hard time I'm going to let you know I'm not happy but I will definitely, take that money for the bills and the gifts you get me or the dinner we're having after. Yeah right Yeah, I have had, like, kind of, I guess it's a bit of a jealousy

issue, which kind of leads into another one of the questions that I got online. Somebody asked this. You've worked through basic jealousy issues, but is your partner ever jealous of the time that you put in? And that kind of goes in right with being on tour and then coming back because your partner might be jealous that you're not spending time with them because you have to spend that time on the road or on your computer advertising your future tours.

Like there is a lot of unpaid work that also goes into it. Yeah. There's hours and hours of admin work, office hours. So me and my friend Chandra call it, you know, we're all doing office hours for the day. And, you know, I think that that was definitely something that I dealt with in previous relationships. But I'm really lucky now that when I have a trip, Zach goes with me. If I have shoots, Zach goes with me. We do everything together.

And I go with him on his shoots too and I assist him when he has shoots. I like watch her randos, you know, popping up sometimes, you know, those on location shoots can be a little bit risky. Yeah. I'm definitely really lucky that now I don't have to experience that kind of stress because it was very stressful before being in relationships.

Like we're jealous of the time that was having to be put in and we're jealous of me being gone all the time and stuff. But also on the flip side, I'm not touring full time anymore. And so now I'm not really having to do that. I don't have to leave all the time, which is very nice. I'm enjoying my break. That's good. It's going to take breaks.

And I do want to include this because I think a lot of people that are not in the industry might not realize how much time we have to spend on the computer, especially if you are like generating a lot of your own content. Like a lot of us models are making reels for Instagram so we can advertise ourselves. We have flyers and we have a newsletter. Some of us have YouTube channels, all of that. And it's all work. It's all editing.

It's all work on the computer, responding to messages, responding to comments. And it takes time. And I personally, I'm an organized mess type person. So I don't have, I have like a little bit of a morning routine, but I don't have like a structure for the day of what hours I'm going to be on the computer and what hours I'm going to be doing other stuff. So sometimes when I'm on my computer, I'm bucking around on Facebook.

And sometimes I'm focusing on writing my newsletter and my boyfriend who I adore and love who I live with you know he doesn't know if I'm needing to concentrate or if I just screwing around on YouTube or whatever and so I think that being able to set boundaries and like designate like this is the time that I need to like get x y and z done is a really healthy way to like move forward in being a freelance person in general role because there's not

a boss telling us what time you start and what time you finish. We all have to run our ship ourselves.

And I think being a freelance artist of any kind has that same struggle where you're like, okay, I need to designate a certain amount of hours this week to doing this task. And I need to do this in order to do my career. What hours are going to be my work hours and what hours are my social time or my time with my romantic partner. So typically, I'm up really early. We have a really weird sleep schedule.

But I'm up really early. And then I usually spend like my weekdays doing like my admin work during like normal work hours. But also, that's also like time that I'm like chatting with friends and ordering an obscene amount of DoorDash.

You're just doing a bunch of like random things too like looking for different locations for my remote events or seeing what models are coming to the area so I can coordinate with them if they want to do any kind of remote event too and kind of just like doing that but then sometimes I don't know I feel like I'm glued to my phone also chronically I'm always responding to messages or comments or posting things or coming up with like an idea of something that I need to make for,

social media so i like and i don't know if they have adhd or object permanence or something but i have to do it like as soon as it comes to my brain so like yeah there i'm like working on a reel or whatever and but i do try to spend as much time as i can like when i'm with zach not on my phone doing a bunch of dumb shit yeah yeah i mean there's a time and place for everything sometimes it's hard to carve time out to do that stuff

but i i'm kind of the same way if the The inspiration strikes me and I have the time. I'm going to do it. I have to take advantage of that inspiration. But if I feel sluggish and not inspired, like I find that if I force myself to do certain tasks, whether it's like online or writing or editing or whatever, then it becomes a drag. And then I associate that activity with it being a drag. So it is kind of like ride the wave while the wave is there.

It's sort of a thing. which I guess makes it hard to have a schedule.

Yeah, I'm the same way. I feel like, I'll be like, I'm going to make a routine and then it's gone and I don't care anymore about trying to keep a routine. And I feel like I'm just lucky that I drink enough water and I take my vitamins that I'm supposed to. So you mentioned a little bit earlier how your previous partners were not in the industry.

Can you tell me what it was like and how it was different dating somebody who was in the photography slash entertainment industry And then dating somebody who is not in the industry. I feel like I am very lucky that because Zach has been a photographer for so long and he's been shooting fine art nudes of women for so long, he understands that the people that I'm going to gravitate toward working to are going to be professionals.

People that respect me and my time. and he understands the perspective that the photographer is experiencing behind the camera where it's not this like hypersexual situation that people assume it is who are outside of the industry and then my exes that i had who were not in the industry had a very hard time understanding that there was nothing sexual happening that it wasn't this hypersexualized i'm doing a strip piece. I'm making gruff, sexy eye contact with them while they, you know,

take photos of me for their viewing pleasure. It's not like that at all. And I would have to really beg and fight with my exes for them to understand. Now that's not even something that I even have to worry about, which is a great relief. And then I also have the. So when I started modeling, I had very little like actual life experience. I was fresh out of high school. I'm the only girl in like a kind of semi-conservative Hispanic household, all brothers.

So I was raised really different than I think some of these other models were. And I really had very minimal life experience when it came to being in a work environment and being around a lot of older men.

And when I talk to Zach about stuff, which I can freely do, which is amazing, you know, I feel like when I was with my exes, I really spent a lot of time nervous that I was going to say something that upset them that happened at a shoot or they're going to perceive the concept in a weird way, you know, or just lots of weird things that people, I guess, don't realize until you're in the mix is weird when you're talking to someone outside of the industry versus, you know, I can...

Very freely explain, you know, situations that happened to me when I was new modeling and Zach can explain it to me in a way that I wouldn't have ever viewed it as because I was so young when I started modeling. I didn't know these things yet. And he also like makes me want to be like a better model. He makes me like want to like work with people who are really like in it for the the craft, not just like GWCs, although I do love working with GWCs sometimes.

But like he really pushes me to be the best model that I can be because he believes that I'm better than what I've let myself settle for, I guess, with my previous clients. I totally resonate with that as well.

And I guess working with GWCs and having a relationship with a romantic partner that does or does not understand the industry that's a valid topic the word gdwc is a very loaded term and there are some people that are non-industry that listen to this podcast so i'll define it gwc gwc stands for guy with camera and it is usually used in a derogatory way to kind of talk shit about guys who don't do photography full time that take pictures of women naked or in lingerie however gwcs are

our bread and butter and we love them if they are nice and respectful we love you guys i love gwcs like many of them are some of my favorite people and they just enjoy the craft of photography and they enjoy incorporating that with the lines and curves of a woman's body or whatever. You may or may not be really fun. I've recently took Zach with me to a GWCA shoot and I had a great time. He was like, did you have fun? I was like, yeah, that was awesome. That was great.

It was an awesome shoot. He was super respectful. He played some. Music. He'll let me play my music eventually, which I really, really love when GWC has asked me to play my ghetto Houston rap because it's a delightful treat that they're not prepared for. And it's really enjoyable. And they are a bread and butter. Those are a majority of the people that I've worked with, to be honest. And I love them. I love them when they're nice and they're kind and respectful.

And there's people who have helped me also in normal life situations explaining things like you know investments in credit and stuff like that oh yeah learn because I didn't really have a normal experience when my adulthood you know so they really helped me out learning these types of things you know teaching me how to budget some of them were project managers so they taught me how to do scheduling differently or they taught me about things like you know productivity

apps that can help me make my craft easier and stuff And I would never have gotten that if it weren't for these cool GWCs. Yeah, I mean, a lot of the photographers that we work with, especially if they hire us every time we come to their town, they become like friends to us.

And I suppose if you're in a relationship with a model who works with these same people in all the towns that the model travels to, you might assume, if you don't know how the industry is like, that there's something going on that's sexual there.

There and one of my exes the one that I dated the longest definitely made these assumptions about me that like assumed that I was cheating on him that I was having sex with these photographers and I was only doing it for the attention and you know all this weird all these weird things that he was projecting onto me that were untrue so I definitely thought that that was distasteful that he had these intense jealousy issues because a lot of his exes had cheated on him.

However, cheating is not in my DNA. I personally am super mononymously focused. When I'm with somebody that I'm into, I'm not looking around. And I'm not saying that to diss on anybody who's polyamorous or in an open relationship.

I should probably put like a precursor on this episode that like the terminology that I'm going to be using is going to be very like hetero and normative based on my experience. So I can't speak for those who are in an open relationship or anything like that. But this is just this episode is basically like what we have experienced and answering questions from people online that are yeah and we both just so happen to have been in.

Relationships with men like you know while we've been doing this yeah and that's just how it is, that's how it is that's literally how my ex was too my ex always assumed that i was out hooking up with these 75 year old men who were you know people i maybe saw five times a year yeah you know which is crazy that we both experienced that but i think that's something that a lot of models experience and don't talk about because there have been many times i see see Facebook posts when the

model is like at their breaking point in their relationships and they decide they're going to talk about these things publicly or hear things you know just in between friends and stuff when I'm talking with them and asking them how they're doing I think that that's like a very common thing and I know that it's hard for photographers who shoot women to be in relationships too and so I imagine that's like why it's easy to be with a photographer for me I never even thought about dating

a photographer before I always assumed that like, I guess because I was also very young when I started, you know, so I'm like 19 when I start and I'm working with all these people who are primarily in their 30s, 40s and then above, you know, I have clients who are literally like 80 something. And the age gap at that time seemed so significant that I was like never something that I ever thought of.

And I don't know, I traveled all over. I worked with, you know, over a thousand people through the years at least.

And i'd never met a photographer that i found even remotely interesting enough to talk to as much as i talked to zach after i first met him yeah so wait i'd like to ask how did that relationship form because i do know that within our industry it is like a stigma for a model to date a photographer unless there's a genuine connection but then how do you get over like Like, you know, you met them, possibly it was at a shoot or whatever. You felt a connection.

Like, how do you get over that? Like, oh, it would be inappropriate if I made a move or, like, asked him to go on a date or whatever. Zach and I, we shot with each other for the first time in 2022. It was very cold. It was a very cold shoot. And we did some on-location abandoned stuff, which is one of my favorite things to do. And I fell in love with buffalo on that trip. I actually have a tile from the train station that we shot at that I picked up that first day.

And then I traveled with it for like a year and a half, which is really funny because I just hadn't gone back to Texas yet. And then, I don't know, he was so funny to me. I remember looking at him and thinking, oh, he's cute. And then I had to look out the window because I was like, girl, you never said that or thought that about. I'm talking before. What's wrong with you? Pay attention. I'm talking to you. And then we just started talking and we had so much in common and then.

Pretty much after I left Buffalo a few days later, I knew I wanted to come back and work with him again. I had a really, really good shoot with him and I just messaged him and I was like, I want to come back to Buffalo. If I come back, would you work with me? And then we just stayed in touch and we became really good friends.

We, you know, I talked to him throughout my move and then I talked to him throughout all my touring and about just what life was like at the time, which was crazy. I was going through some big transitions and we just became really close. And last year, I don't know, it just kind of happened really naturally. I did this shoot with him at this creek and I was blushing. My friend Sophia was with us and I was all blushing and baffled. And I talked so much normally when I couldn't open my mouth.

I had butterflies so hard. I just remember thinking, oh my gosh, I really feel this deep connection with him. And, you know, at that point, we'd become like really close friends, best friends. And it just kind of happened naturally. I came back to Buffalo like a week later and then I kind of altered all my plans. I was like, I just really want to be around Zach. He's so funny. He's sweet. And it just, I guess I'd never experienced something happen so naturally before.

It really changed it for me. Yeah. Becoming friends first and then like, you know, getting together romantically, which is definitely like maybe people listening out there might think that that's how things always are. But like in a lot of my past relationships, the way the relationship started was a one night stand where I never met them before. And then we had a one night stand. And then that was like, OK, a two night stand and then a month.

And then we're like boyfriend and girlfriend. friend and then obviously we're not compatible if we didn't become friends before we started dating so and you know I definitely do not condone that method of dating I a lot of that past relationships that I was in was a side effect of my alcoholism which I no longer am participating in but I mean getting to know somebody and then building that trust especially like doing what you love like photography and modeling where you already have these things

in common and you're already on the the same page with like what inspires you creatively that that's great what would you say for other people out there models or photographers when it comes to dancing that line like like where where's like the professional boundary like when when would you say that it would be acceptable to say something like hey like would you want to get dinner after this or hey would you like to come over to my place or something like that?

We I guess it really just depends. I would say that at least a friendship, a long friendship that you like know the person, you really know them. And I'm I I'm not very vulnerable with the photographers I meet. I don't you know, they're my friends, you know, but you're not going to catch me like, you know, giggling with them like I was giggling with Zach and stuff. I feel like they're.

There really was like one of those moments you hear about in like movies or read about books where it's kind of like an instant spark and you become very comfortable very quick with someone and i think that that changes it once you really feel that feeling like you're like oh that's how it's supposed to be and that's how it's supposed to feel like yeah i might say that it is possible that one person might feel like they have that spark and then the other person

to might not have that spark like perhaps i mean this has happened in the past where the photographer tells you that they're in love with you but maybe it isn't actual love maybe it's lust or whatever yeah like the receiving party is like oh well it i'm not reciprocating this feeling so i i guess there is like forming that connection over time i suppose is the element that is the most important Because there are some people out

there that are giving advice like you should, if you want a date model, you should buy a camera and then you can meet them and maybe date them. We're not naming names out here, but there's people putting that message out there.

And my own friends who have you know been in experiences and been in relationships with men who have bought cameras to meet pretty girls and who have moved to big name cities to meet pretty girls and all those relationships failed and those photographers are typically like serial.

Model daters serial model hookupers there's people you know that i know of from coast to coast that are photographers with reputations for getting models into their beds and no they must play a slick game i don't know i try to avoid ever interacting with guys like that they scare me yeah and in the end it's like are they truly happy if they are being suave and meeting models through photography clubs or their own photo shoots or whatever and then like getting them

into bed and hooking up with them and then not pursuing a relationship or having a relationship that fails or where there's lots of cheating and lying involved like are those people truly happy, no definitely not and i think that a lot of times people stay in relationships too though where they're comfortable because that's what they know and a lot of times people stay in relationships that are bad because it's also what they think that they deserve.

And I think that it is hard in this industry to find people who will be supportive and loving of you doing what you're doing. And so even if you find someone who is just kind of loving and kind of supportive, a lot of girls I think are going to decide to stay because they know how hard it is out there. And we have a stigma, you know, our job is not, you know... Typically the job that you see brought home to mom's meat, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. It's something that my ex would always throw into my face when I was saying that I was unhappy with our relationship dynamics. He would tell me that I was really hard to love and nobody else out there would give me as long of a leash as he stated as I would because he said that because Because I was a nude model that like it would be really hard for anybody else to accept me for who I am and what I do and that I should be grateful, right?

Which was definitely, I was definitely being gaslit because now I am with somebody who, so the relationship that I'm in, he is not a photographer. Well, I trained him to be my photographer, but I didn't meet him through model photography. He's in the entertainment industry so he's a musician as well as working in construction so.

Being a musician and being somebody who is frequently on stage he understands that there are people who are fans and that people that you work with that you maintain a positive relationship with like for us it's photographers for him it's like people that rightly regularly go to their shows and like you know people that work at the bars and stuff like that you you're nice to those people you take selfies with them after the concert you talk to them you know you sign autographs if

that's what they sell your swag like you have to ham up the audience it's not that you're hitting on them or you want to have sex with them it's just that you are it's customer service in the end if you're an entertainer and you have people that enjoy what you're creating whether it's music or art or whatever like part of your career is in the customer service aspect of entertaining and for us it's being you know creative and engaging with our audience and with the people

that we collaborate with because I think that there are a lot of really talented models that don't get.

As many recurrent bookings because they weren't as like personable with the photographer because in the end this this this industry it it is very much like a connecting industry like you work with somebody and if you work well together they want to hire you to get sometimes even if you're a really amazing model but you didn't want to say a word at the shoot and like in between every outfit fit you're just on your phone instead of you know engaging with

the person that you're creating with like that that energy isn't as like energetic and i think that photographers definitely pick up on that too if you're not being enthusiastic if you're not being engaging even pre-booking you know your cold calls how you're talking about your shoe all that stuff photographers pick up on that and it's very important that you you know i try to have the same personality like across the board i try to be like who i am online and in person online i'm

going to be a little bit more professional because you can't see me face to face and i feel like we need to get the fact that you don't see how serious i'm taking it so i'm gonna be you know a little bit more professional but in person and then once you meet me you realize i'm really goofy and i'm bubbly and i'm I'm really smiley and I'm silly.

And I think that that's a lost art in the business for sure. Yeah. People definitely don't understand that. And I'm lucky that... Zach had worked with me before, so he knows how I am. He knows that before the shoot, I'm very professional. And in person, I'm really goofy and I'm silly and I have a good time. And it's important to me that everyone has a good time because he's experienced, what it's like to work with me before we were dating.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just building that energy up with the people that you're working with helps maintain that connection where they want to hire you again.

But to a jealous partner they might see that as threatening 100 yes that 100 super how they perceive it it's really but then it's funny because we don't perceive them in their nine to five jobs having good customer service as threatening right yeah i guess it really depends on the job like for for one example when my boyfriend finishes playing.

A concert there's usually like a 20 to 30 minute period of time where like a bunch of chicks want to take pictures with them and i just kind of like i scoot out you know i'm just like y'all get your pictures you know yeah i'm not going to be like he's mine get back you know like that's just not cool like but you imagine you imagine if that's how i behaved as actually yeah don't look at him like that are you giving him the look don't look at him like that then that kind of

that kind of takes me back to i guess something that we could have brought up earlier but this is definitely a a sore topic for some people but like what is your opinion and possibly your experience with you know bringing an escort that is your romantic partner to shoots like have you ever had a photographer tell you something negative about bringing a romantic partner to issue. So I don't drive locally.

So most of my shoots when I was like back in Texas, when I was with my ex, I like had like our mutual friends like drop me off. My mom dropped me off and I didn't really do S sports. And then when I was touring, I had other models come with me. And then now Zach comes with me to my shoots. And most everyone is like very excited to meet him. It's like a little like cute little pride and joy thing for me.

We're going to look really excited to like meet him. they're like oh my gosh Elena's work great I see all the stuff you guys create it'll be great to meet him I haven't run into anyone who is against it I have had people be like intimidated by me, bringing him but I I guess that is just you know maybe it's like an artist thing it's like when I meet a model that backwards works good that's like someone I've like admired for a long time or something or someone who has like really

amazing work I can't help but be like oh my gosh gosh, like we're about to like, I guess, go watch them shoot and get to hang out with them and meet them. It's like kind of intimidating.

Yeah, I guess if as a model who is dating a photographer, bringing that photographer to shoot, regardless of whether or not that person is your romantic partner, I can imagine if I was the one hiring you, maybe feeling like, oh, I wonder if they're going to judge my camera because I have a Sony and he has a Nikon or judge my lens or judge my lighting or I wonder if they're you know if they're gonna point out like what I'm doing that's wrong I can see that that

might be a factor that you know even if your your partner that you're bringing to the shoot isn't doing that it might make the photographer that's working with you intimidated I guess yeah I think also that's so funny because they do say that they'll be like, The reason I do it this way, and they don't talk to me, they like turn to him, but like, the reason I do it this way is because, and it's like funny, like they're like, I guess, like explaining their artistic process amongst each other.

And I just hear him like waiting, like. Yeah, when I used, in 2022, I did 4WAT with a partner and I did have some people be like, I can't accommodate him in the space.

Like this one guy i shot with in like the mountains in new york and near bear mountain but it like genuinely was like a very very small little cottage thing in the mountain and like a third person in there would have made it like very cramped so i guess i don't know that's really the only time that and then one time i did have someone say like something about how like i must not trust them because they're with me or whatever but i'm like i don't really know we're all here together.

Right, exactly. I remember when I was new to modeling before I started traveling full time, I used to have like coffee or something with photographers before agreeing to a shoot with them and at a studio or whatever. And I remember this one guy, his head was shoved so far up his ass.

He was telling me a story about how the reason why he never allowed boyfriends at photo shoots is because there was one time where he said that he had to shove a model's boyfriend through the wall and i was like why would you have to do that he was like oh yeah he was just a problem i had to put my hands on him and i was like well this doesn't make me want to work with you you know.

You're gonna get violent so i've heard items out on like the model mayhem forms and the purple port forms about like the rare incident that the escort is a problem or whatever but in my experience i. I don't know anyone foolish enough to squander the opportunities that we have by bringing in someone who would damage their reputation like that to a shoot.

Yeah, but I will say, though, that of all the people out there that are aspiring models versus professional full-time models, you and I are in the circle of professionals. So we surround ourselves with people who wouldn't bring somebody like that to a shoot. You know, we're not like on drugs or like trying to steal stuff. I have heard from photographers that worked with local models that had drug problems where the friend that they brought brought a large bag.

And then after they left the dressing room, the bag was really full of stuff. And the photographer didn't have the guts to ask, hey, what did you got in that bag? Like, but they stole it. So that does happen.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, you know, but this is hashtag top reasons to only hire professional models and not work with. Like, you know, inexperienced models, or if you do work with an inexperienced model, be aware of the risks that you're putting yourself by having a stranger in your home, you know? Yeah, definitely. I think that photographers should also do reference checks. Yeah, they should. I think that that is something that is very commonly overlooked.

You can very easily find out people's criminal information and who they are online. Yeah. Just a few Google searches. Also, I think that being public about your relationship online automatically like vets your boyfriend.

Friend like if you're posting content like Travis and I we're we got photos together online like we post videos where we're doing stuff on our our reels and on our stories on Instagram so people already have a vibe they've already got a vibe and half the time when I show up to a shoot the photographer's like where's Travis did you bring him and I'm like oh yeah no he's in a different he's in a different town like I'm just on tour right now I was gonna I

was gonna have him hold the reflector i was gonna have him pose with you i'm like oh like they're already aware of him and you'll need his personality so he's kind of already vetted but if you're really secretive about your partner and then you bring your partner to a shoot without like clearing it with the photographer first i can i can see how a photographer might be kind of freaked out if you.

Bring somebody to the shoot that you did not say you were going to bring or you said that you were going to bring a friend and then it turned out to be your significant other. So I mean, there are things that people do that are sneaky because they're like, oh, the photographer is going to get mad if I ask if I'm going to bring my boyfriend, they're going to want to say no. So I'm going to lie and say that it's my friend or whatever.

So I've heard all of these different versions of why some photographers don't want escorts at all, or they'll allow an escort, but not a boyfriend. But in the end, kind of like what we started with, like being authentic, Authentic kind of like eliminates all of these issues, like being true to yourself and like expressing who you are in your true form online will like dispel any of these possible miscommunications.

Yeah, definitely. I think that is something that a lot of models have a hard time with is like being upfront with photographers because they're worried about them being uncomfortable or denying the booking or they're being, you know, just drama in general, which I completely understand and I respect too, because for a long time I was also really conflicted about the power dynamic that is you know exists between photographers and models now i'm of the mindset that if i feel uncomfortable that

i'm just not going to do it at all period which took me a long time to get to oh i mean yeah it's long to get to and also though part of that is being in a relationship where i can talk things through with my partner very explicitly in detail about what's going on with the shoot and sometimes you know we just decide that it's not something that i need to even stress about and i'm just being anxious over or sometimes it's something that is an obvious glaring flag

and i just didn't see it that way and i got caught up in some you know southern politeness that i need to work on yeah true that well i've got another question from our online instagram questions and this is a fellow model who.

Is like sort of faced out of traveling modeling but she asks how do you deal with being away from your partner for long periods of time when i traveled a lot in my previous relationships i had like a set routine of like what i did with that partner you know we always called before bed and you know we stayed in pretty like good contact we shared my location for emergency purposes there's like a copy of my schedule that they have access to so they know where I'm supposed to be and

when I'm supposed to be there and who's supposed to be there and what's happening so that way you know god forbid something terrible happens there's like a trail that's going on and also I'm like really sentimental so I like travel you know like now like I don't travel without Zach when I was traveling without him like I would take his shirt with me and I'd sleep in his shirt and I'd take the stuffed animal he got me and I'm very like soft that way in my soft girl era like that and

then you know we did FaceTime dates when I was still touring you know we you know set time aside and talk to each other and time together. We stay in pretty much constant contact, though. So that's sweet.

Yeah, I guess if you are in a relationship with somebody who like spends a long time to text back without communicating, you know, that might, you know, create some kind of like anxiety in your partner where what your method of giving them your schedule with all the addresses where you're going to be at sharing your location, you know, regularly checking in you know having FaceTime dates that's a really good way to like reassure your partner that you are okay like you're still connected

you are still the person that I love you know I am away from you but that doesn't mean that I am not thinking about you because yeah traveling away from your partner can give them anxiety or give you anxiety and I mean I experienced that like with partners in the past where you know I'm on tour and I want to call them because I'm going to go to bed and they're not answering, you know?

Yeah. So for anybody out there that is thinking about getting into freelance modeling, or perhaps you've dabbled into freelance modeling and maybe you have a boyfriend or a significant other, or perhaps you're going to be in a relationship at some point while you are getting into modeling.

I would say that in my experience, The beginning of my modeling career was the most rocky for all of my relationships, like not just significant others, but also my my parents and my friends, because they were looking at me going like, what are you doing, Christy? You've got all these salacious pictures on your social media accounts.

Like, what are you doing? that is very relatable self-doubt involved in in that there's a lot of self-doubt involved with just like people that you are closest with accepting what you are doing and then supporting you yeah definitely that was something I definitely experienced I think it was really shocking for people to see me go from like this young kid who had cancer who was like very awkward and really shy to like suddenly being half naked on the internet.

Like it was very shocking for them. A lot of people, my friends, my family, my boyfriend at the time, they were all kind of like, what is going on? And also I think that like the people in my life who saw the potential in what I was doing and saw how happy it made me and then believed in me, those are the people that I'm still friends with. And those are the friendships that I carry, like that I carry like closest to my heart that are super important to me.

Even, you know, after my cross country move and all my tours and stuff, those are the people I still stay in touch with. I don't know. It's a very wild world we live. And it's not a normal life by any means. I realize that. I recognize that. I think that when people are getting into this industry too, it's so enchanting. And it's so otherworldly to experience the stuff that you are thrown into so quickly. It's a big whirlwind of emotions and experiences.

Experiences and I don't blame anyone for you know jumping right into it you know Pete first because it's so amazing it's so beautiful and exciting it's so unique not everyone gets to do this it's you know a blessing and an opportunity that most people never even fathom existing.

Yeah that's true and it is hard to launch your career especially if you're like newer at it or you haven't built your portfolio yet and to be with a significant other who is supportive of you expressing yourself in whatever way you desire whether that's art modeling whether that's fashion modeling whether it's e-fans or whatever like all that needs to be discussed with your partner and I have had a lot of instances where models contact me because they want advice spice and they tell

me that maybe they've done a few shoots but that their significant other doesn't know and i'm like well you have to tell them because if you're worried about telling them i understand that you're worried that you might get judged but that's a problem like they have to support you and what you're doing and if if they don't like you know it's either your life or them controlling your life.

So it's kind of a hard pill to swallow where when you get into modeling or acting or even any art that people don't understand, if they're not willing to make the effort to try to understand you and what you're doing and why you love doing it, then maybe that's not the right partner for you.

And that is a major thing that does make this career challenging and it often ends models careers before it really gets going so yeah I've seen so many really like I've had a lot of friends who like got like get into modeling or they are modeling and then they get into relationships and you know they could have you know reached whatever goal they had they could have kept going and they stopped and they you know.

You know just they're not even with the guy anymore nine times out of ten too they never stay with a dude like that never it's never the actual relationship that is the one which is also like really sad to see that they missed out on so much opportunity for someone who couldn't even stick around for them because they were resenting them over something that they gave up for that person too yeah i think it's important especially because a lot of models are young when they get into this industry,

that they should take their time. I think that that's important to be themselves and learn who they are. This industry is life-changing in many ways.

You experience things, the beauty of the country and business stuff and these unique locations and even just being in different types of cities and towns and environments that you grew up in, it changes who you are as a person and you're still discovering yourself in this industry and as an adult and as a you know human for a very long time while you're navigating this stuff and then your brain doesn't even fully develop until you're 25 anyways and i think so many people get kind of caught up in

this idea what they should be doing and they kind of squander the opportunities that they're given you know and that's really sad to see and i'm a victim of that too i stayed in a really bad relationship for a really long time and I could have long ago left Texas you know I could have long ago hit all 50 states I could have achieved a lot of goals that I've achieved just in the last few years probably before I was even 25 if I would have had someone kind of you know telling

me that there was no rush you know I was rushing for no reason everything came and it was It was supposed to and everything fell in place and it was supposed to fall in place. Yeah, exactly. And I do understand why some partners get jealous. Yeah, definitely. I do understand that because it is societally ingrained within our society where it is... People assume that, I'm not saying people in general, but a lot of people do assume.

That nudity is supposed to only be private for your romantic partner, where what we're doing is we're expressing ourselves with our body for art and for entertainment, and it's our career.

And there is a professionalism to that career, whether or not when you're viewing the content, you think it's professional, like we are doing it in a professional manner. And there's a there's a respect that is needed for that. And if your partner views what you are doing as salacious or or that you're acting out or or that you just need more attention and they can't give it to you, then, you know, they need to work on that themselves.

Ourselves like we're going to come across those same issues with other women even not in the industry it's going to be the co-worker that oversteps boundaries too much or it's going to be the dress that's too revealing for them to go out in you know because for us and what we're experiencing it's like very big you know it's like a very you know we're nude models we're in lingerie we're online we have fans all of that stuff all of those things can be seen in a normal person's life

mirrored just smaller you know that guy who has a crush on you at your starbucks that you see every three days because you always got to get your starbies you know it's you know it's the same thing and it's those guys and those men are going to still our partners are still gonna pick those same fights even if they're very small on the scale of things you do an ex-partner too it's definitely something that they have to work on yeah that's a good point because there is.

Similar issues that I mean freelance modeling people assume that we get like.

Sexual advances all the time and while that might be true i had just as many sexual advances from people when i worked in a restaurant if not more i was just telling you this day about how when i was working as a hostess at this restaurant i always i hated my coworkers because they were creepy and i hated a bunch of my regulars because they were creepy too and i was young and i didn't know what to do because i was like 16 and i was in prosperity that's

extra creepy but with what we're doing it becomes more obvious especially because we're all out there protecting each other and outing predators so that makes it a more a more welcoming environment for safety because we are upholding it for each other and in a restaurant if you're trying to be like hey that guy touched my butt the other co-workers are going to be like oh don't talk to christy she's going to say you touch their butt.

Yeah, it's very different. And also, I think in the last like five or so years modeling wise, I think that the community has become so much stronger in this new generation of models are super kick ass. They don't take shit and they're here to do their job. They love to do what they do and they're more than ready and willing to put people in their place. And And when we started, we were kind of told, you know, well, we have to have thick skin.

This is what we experience as models. This is how the industry is. We would have never even thought to have the kind of network that we had now. At least that's how I feel about it when I think about how I started. Yeah, me too. Right on. Well, Jules, thanks so much for doing this podcast episode with me.

I think that ain't been more informative. included and I hope that people listening have found value in it as well because this is something that a lot of us deal with like being in a relationship as a model has different things that you know other people on the outside might not have considered I definitely agree with that I think it's really cool that you invited me to come back and I love talking about Zach's that's awesome yeah shout out to Zach. Music.