Cate Blanchett in "The Gift"

spk_0:   0:00
What do you do on

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Sunday? We talk about Cate Blanchett acting the costumes, the awards, but

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mostly blanche it of it all.

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You think this is a Sunday's escape and

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I'm your host, Mortada Hello and welcome to a new episode of some days escaped. In today's episode of our podcast, we are discussing the gift to 2000 Cate Blanchett movie directed by Sam Raimi And my guest today is writer and podcaster Gear and scarlet. Hi, Kieran.

spk_1:   0:55
Hello, Murtada up and I've been thinking some bad thoughts. Sorry, I had to Yes. Did you see something bad? Yeah, I did this movie. So,

spk_0:   1:09
Kieran is was top of my list of who to invite on the podcast. Because I knew that whatever the conversation is, wherever it goes, it will be special and unique. So I'm very excited to have you here with me today to talk about the gift.

spk_1:   1:28
Well, thank you. I really appreciate you saying that.

spk_0:   1:31
Why don't you tell our listeners before we not invented a gift about your podcast or your other writing?

spk_1:   1:39
It will. I'm my writing. Can. A lot of it can be found at rewire news, which they do a lot of work on immigration. I also host a podcast, as Murtada mentioned, which is brand new. It's called You Started It. It's where I interview people of color and or LGBTQ people, and it's me talking to them about a piece of media, either a television show or a film where they talk about why it was formative to them. How connects of their identity is a queer person or a queer person of color. And I had a really great conversation worth Murtada about on Officer and a Gentleman, so that was fun. Look out for that episode

spk_0:   2:15
and Debra Winger, who was my first love before Kate. The gift was released in the year 2000 and it's a story about a woman with extra sensory perception, basically a fortune teller who is asked to help a young woman who has disappeared. And it has a crazy supporting cast. So Kate is the lead. This was the project she chose as her first lead after her breakout in Elizabeth, and she supported by Kiana Reeves, Hilary Swank, Greg Kinnear, Giovanni Ri, BC, Katie Holmes, Rosemere Harris and J. K. Simmons. That's a huge big cast and is directed by Sam Raimi, who was known for horror movies like Evil, Dead and Dark Man. But this actually was the movie that he made right after his golf movie. I believe, for the love of the game, have you ever seen that was Kevin Costner?

spk_1:   3:14
I remember the

spk_0:   3:14
adults. It was something else.

spk_1:   3:17
No, Um, I think it was. Was it baseball?

spk_0:   3:21
Maybe. Yes, you know,

spk_1:   3:22
because I feel like what was in this golf movie wasn't kept. Wasn't the Kevin Costner golf movie Tin Cup.

spk_0:   3:27
Yeah, so yes. So it was probably baseball. I mix them up.

spk_1:   3:33
They're similar in that neither of us watch them clearly.

spk_0:   3:36
Yeah, And then after this, he went on to spend almost a decade doing Spider Man. So it's just It's a strange little blip in his career that, but it is also a strange little ribbon Cates career. So Kate, like we said, plays this fortune teller. Her name is Annie Wilson, and the movies has to plot lines. She had a lot of clients, including Hilary Swank as a battered women and Giovanni Ribisi as a young man who has been sexually abused by his father when he was a child,

spk_1:   4:11
which you don't find out till, like much later in the film. It's a weird the reveal of that is very, very much speaks to. It's a litmus test for whether you're going to respond positively to this film. I'll just say that,

spk_0:   4:25
Yes, we could talk about that scene. But the main thrust of the narrative is this woman, played by Katie Holmes, who disappears. And so the character that Kate plays Annie Wilson helps the police and this woman's family find her, uh, and find the culprit. And it all sort of its intertwined with the two. It was the two customers that she has in re BC on Hilary Swank.

spk_1:   4:55
Also, it's it's worth noting Movie came out in 2000 so think about 2000. Katie Holmes. This was like right when Dawson's Creek was airing.

spk_0:   5:03
She was definitely trying to break out with this movie, which I guess is a little bit like what Kate was trying to do it. She was trying to subvert expectations after getting her Oscar nomination and breaking out with Elizabeth and to do something completely different. So she chose this gothic thriller from a director who is known for horror movies. So basically she was trying to play a scream queen, I guess.

spk_1:   5:34
Yeah, and she would have been. It wouldn't have been beyond the pale for her to have done that because she was. Certainly this is not reflective of my feelings. This is reflective of Hollywood, but she would have been young enough for it back then. To step into that role is sort of like a an adult scream queen. Just the whole thing of Katie Holmes wanting to break out like I feel like so much of this movie Waas about how the actresses were trying to step into a different phase of their career and they were all lied to in some way. We're like Hilary Swank was clearly trying to make good on her Oscar win, kind of by surprise for Boys Don't Cry Where she beating that betting in the best in the Big best picture winner, American Beauty and Katie Holmes was tryingto be known as a movie actress. So not that Wilson. It's fortune Tillery. I don't call myself there. I'd love

spk_0:   6:28
you to read my fortune. I'm pretty booked up. You think we'll live happily every so before we dive deeper into the gift, let me ask you what was the first time you saw Kate?

spk_1:   6:40
Super basic. But the first time I saw Kate was Elizabeth. It's basic, but you know, it's the That is my answer. But I saw the gift.

spk_0:   6:47
The answer most people have because that was that was the first movie that people knew she was in. And it was a big break out.

spk_1:   6:53
Yeah, I mean it. Sze called her break out for a reason, and a lot of stuff started there for her, like her Oscar or narrative started there. And that's certainly continued. It certainly went further than the person who beat her, Gwyneth Paltrow, who, by the way, I do, by the way, I think deserve to beat her. But anyways, when you stopped

spk_0:   7:12
us, Grace No, it's fine. I forgive.

spk_1:   7:14
Yeah, yes. No, Really. Like sincerely it Like it all. It all came out in the wash.

spk_0:   7:20
So what is your favorite Kate performance? It's not the gift. I'm betting.

spk_1:   7:26
No, it's not the gift. And maybe maybe you're not betting that maybe you saw it. You saw a vision of that? Um, my favorite Cate Blanchett. performance again. Maybe this is basic, but it's Carol. Maybe that's gay. Basic.

spk_0:   7:39
It's an impeachable performance and film, so it's a good

spk_1:   7:42
choice. It's It's like she's. She's perfect in that she's nailing the stylization of that movie while not shedding because a lot of the times performances that are stylized are when I say stylized. I mean, that movie has a pastiche about it, and she's doing accent work, and a lot of it is very sort of a lot of it is very stagey in the way that it is to its credit, in the way that everything is orchestrated, like everything is very meticulously composed in that movie, like from from the framing to the costumes to the production design. And she manages to act within that framework and not lose any of the emotion of what is being portrayed in that movie, which is her relationship with this woman who was the love of her life coming at the complete wrong time, not just the wrong time in history, in terms of social acceptance, but like the wrong time in her life and how she's dealing with the excitement of that and also the dread of that in the terror of that. And it was interesting to see Cate Blanchett play the person who was sort of pulling back, especially towards the end, where she does not necessarily want to engage with Torres, played by Rooney Mara. And yeah, she's incredible in that movie. And and, uh, I also

spk_0:   9:01
give readings. Zach. Yes? What does the exact enable you to do?

spk_1:   9:10
I will. I

spk_0:   9:11
see things and no sense things that well that hadn't happened yet, David. Someplace sales.

spk_1:   9:22
My granny told me that I I had a gift that runs in my

spk_0:   9:26
family, and she told me that I should be afraid of it. I should just always use my instinct that the gift is sort of a Gothic thriller. And I think one of those things that I sort of didn't like about it is that it is trying to tell us that it is a Gothic thriller all the time, So there is a lot of rain and sun there. It's, you know, it starts with that, and then it continues throughout the movie. In the big scenes, there is always thunder and fog, and then it has all the sort of entrapments of Gothic mysteries. You know things are always very loud, or the camera zooms in and out when the character played by K is doing her fortune telling or, you know, reading her cards So the dough sort of trappings bother you. But

spk_1:   10:14
the thing that bothered me this time around watching it as an adult because I haven't washed I hadn't watched it since then, was a lot of the ways in which it's cloyingly trying to tell you that Oh, this is Southern. And you were sort of touching on that, like the week with the, um, really dramatic cushions when she's doing her fortune telling where, like the push ins to, like just this random, every Southern looking guy playing a fiddle on a stoop like or like on a little island in a stream. And it's so it felt really gross in that way and an authentic and also the casting of Cate Blanchett doesn't help with any of that. I don't know. I've obviously since living well, she's she's Australian.

spk_0:   11:01
I think her accent is impeccable in this film.

spk_1:   11:04
I think her accent work is good, but I think the casting off her feel cynical in that way, where it's already and on and also, you know, Chiana Reeves. And like, there's just a lot of things in this movie where the Southern inauthenticity of it in a cynical way where they're clearly trying, they clearly have no idea about the South, so much so that there is no like. They're trying to be specific with the story, and as a result, there's almost no specificity. And because I was thinking, Where does this movie even take place? Like I was thinking Doesn't take place in Louisiana. Like, at times I was thinking, Oh, maybe this does take place in parts of world.

spk_0:   11:43
Yeah, I always thought it was Georgia, so I don't know why they don't mention Savannah. But in my head, it was always Savannah. I don't

spk_1:   11:49
like Savannah. Georgia is a weird Southern place, and it also has a lot of ghosts, like folklore to it, like you can actually go on hers, rise in Savannah and there are like like the whole thing is like, Oh, there are a lot of haunted houses and people have like a whole industry around that in Savannah. But it's but Savannah also has like an air of wealth to it. And I know that wealth disparity in towns like that tends to be extreme. But it didn't it didn't feel like Savannah to me. It's and it's a

spk_0:   12:15
very small town, so it's

spk_1:   12:16
a very small town. So

spk_0:   12:17
one of the things that it's sort of like I think the movie is doesn't portray very well is that there is basically, I don't know, 10 characters and that they're all involved in the story. So there is not really, to your point, a feeling of where this is set. What is the space? And I do agree with you. Supporting cast is going really over the top. Maybe what you sort of alluded to as them trying to be Southern. But like you, Henry, I'm not of the school that says that he's a bad actor, but people who think he's a bad actor have a case stay, present, this Meet me.

spk_1:   12:52
Yeah, yeah, I love Chiana. Reason I can't I can't defend minutes with you other than to say that aesthetically Hughes, really hot. But specifically in this I mean in general. But I think that him and Hillary Swank being husband and wife in this movie, and he plays her husband, who's battering her. It's an interesting pairing and that I think they're kind of similar in the sense that I think that the people who hate them and think that they're bad actors have a lot of evidence in their corner. But I think that the reason with that I think the reason for that is a casting. Directors were not imaginative in Hollywood, so they would look at someone like Hilary Swank and they would look at someone like he Anna Reeves and they would think, Oh, like I can plug Hilary Swank into anything I can put her in that movie The affair of the necklace That sort of cost you me drama that she did after Boys don't cry or I can put her in this where she's playing this battered woman and same with because she's because her identity summary in broad strokes. It seems possible that she's on attractive white woman. But I think that they are both good within a very limited range, and I think that this is not this is not what either of them are good at.

spk_0:   14:04
Yeah, and this is you know, also, Hilary Swank have not made many movies when she filmed this. And you know, sometimes you need a few movies to hone your craft and learn where you are and what the camera does. And all of that so she would tell

spk_1:   14:19
totally and Boys Don't Cry is not a typical was not a typical movie. Making experience like that was not a big studio film. So yes, she clearly, like she didn't have a chance to sort of become less green. And I think it shows, and I think it shows here. But but but back to Kate for a moment, I think that Kate watching this, I think her performance is kind of a wash in the sense that it doesn't hurt or harm the film, and I agree that her accent work. It is good in the sense that she never pulls me out of the movie. It's not on the Coal Kidman situation where, no matter where the movie takes place, even Australia, which takes place in Australia, I always find myself asking, where is Nicole Kidman's character supposed to be from? Yeah, because I think we're eventually going to find out that there's life on other planets, and I think the way we're going to find that out is because we're gonna find out that Nicole Kidman it's from another planet because she's so otherworldly and her accident, not Australian. But Kay Planted is able to do that. She's able to dip into accent work very well, like both of her Oscar wins. Involved involved accent work, in fact, and she's quite good in this movie in the context of a movie that has no idea what to do with her character. Beyond function, I was going to say beyond function. But even they don't even know the function of her character honestly, because surprised

spk_0:   15:41
that she chose this movie, there is a quote of her, and she did a lot of interviews for this movie after when it was coming out. And there is a quote that she says in an interview with Newsweek, that there were plenty of offers to drive a film after Elizabeth. But there was no point in driving a film. If you don't have a story to tell, so this strikes me as sort of an interesting look into why she chose this movie so to me. This means that she maybe wasn't interested in her apart. But she just liked the story and maybe, like, wanted to work with Sam Raimi because it's not much of a part. She is the lead she is in almost every scene. But to your point about what you were saying, it's kind of like a part that anybody could play. And the other thing that I think is when you know, we talked about Quiano and Hillary and and we haven't even brought up Giovanni Ri BC All of them are sort of going big, particularly Ri BC and Greg Kinnear. Spoiler is actually the culprit, and he in every sea,

spk_1:   16:41
which obviously he is. Yes,

spk_0:   16:43
he's telegraphing it in every scene. I'm guilty, but Kate is doing such subtle work, and it's all sort of like in her voice and in the trembling of her body. Whenever these things were happening to her character, and sometimes when I was watching it and I did enjoy it because it's such a bunker story that it's just entertaining. There is always something interesting

spk_1:   17:08
movie isn't his movie is not. This movie is not. You should watch this movie. It's nuts.

spk_0:   17:12
Yeah, but also I was like, Is she in the same movie? Because she's she's giving it gravitas and doing it. But I kept thinking maybe we needed an actual screen queen, somebody who would sort of give us the hysterics and the dramatics that this story is pitching

spk_1:   17:33
when you say need. What do you mean, Like, what do you think that would have done for this? I'm kidding. I'm generally curious about that, cause, like what? What do you think that someone like a Neve Campbell doing sort of a broad Southern accent in this role would have been able to do? Because Nev. Campbell is actually not that much younger than Cate Blanchett?

spk_0:   17:56
Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I didn't picture anybody else in particular, but I just thought that she and the other actors were not in the same movies in her scenes with Hilary Swank. Sometimes I felt they were in the same movie because they, you know, they're scenes had a reality to like. They were steaks when they were talking to each other, but in every other scene, with like, Greg Kinnear whiskey on Reeves. I was just like, okay, they're just playing. They're just trying to entertain us. And she wasn't doing that. So the scenes kind of didn't work for me.

spk_1:   18:28
Yeah, I mean, this is an awful thing to say, but I'm going to say it. There's this moment where she's talking to Hilary Swank's character, played by Val. Her name is Valerie. She's talking to Valerie Barksdale. I will never forget the last name Barksdale as long as I live because it's such a perfect name. She's talking to Valerie and she's like, You can take off your sunglasses. I know he's been hitting you and Hilary Swank takes off her sunglasses, and she has this giant purple welts like a black That's and the makeup work is so extreme where I'm like if he hit her enough to put a California raisin on her face, why she not concussed? Why she not in the hospital but like if it's still that big like that? It was so extreme and like not even performance ways. But in ways like that, where they're like, Oh, you don't know what it looks like when you get a black eye. It doesn't look like that. If it looked like that that means he just hit her. Yeah, and she wouldn't be there if he just hit her. She'd be in the hospital. And not only that, if he's been hitting her and this is a small town, he would know to hit her enough not to leave a mark of that big. You know, I'm saying, because that's like he is an abuser who's controlling her. And they are very adept at that.

spk_0:   19:39
Yeah, I mean, it's everything is too much, and I think the other thing that is this movie is very violent. Hillary's Mike explain about it, wife. But her husband, Chiana Reeves, just casually strikes the character played by Kate, right in the stomach, in front of everybody in town. And that sort of just took me completely out of the movies like Something like

spk_1:   20:02
From a Cop and for the cops at his house. We're looking for a body Yes, not they find, by the way they find her body at his house in his pond.

spk_0:   20:12
So that's that's similar to what you were talking about with Hilary Swank's makeup. It's just everything is crazy, although the one crazy note that I really appreciate it is There is a scene where it is revealed to us that Giovanni Ribisi, his father, has been abusing him as a kid. And throughout the movie they dropped hints because he's always talking about the Blue Diamond and there is a scene and it is big, and it's pitch very loud where the camera zooms in on a blue diamond tie, too, on his lower stomach. So it completely just tells us exactly what has happened to this character was a kid, and I sort of appreciated the movie doing that because I think movies. Now this it's been it's 19 years since this movie was released. Movies now are just too polite to sort of do something like this. Something is visceral and as like, gotcha like this.

spk_1:   21:04
Yeah, I mean, I agree, but also I found it troubling, but I I I found it troubling but not problematic. I found it garish in the sense that, like the its garish in the way, the rest of movies, But I agree with you. It's not problematic in the way that presents the reality of it. I think that in the context of this very, very over the top, tacky movie. It's like the most tasteful way they could've presented that information,

spk_0:   21:29
and we

spk_1:   21:29
want a peaceful little It's not tasted all because, like, by the way you see the tattoo very clearly because it's surrounded by fire. Because Giovanni Ribisi has doused his father. He's tied his father to each air and is beating him with a leather strap and has, and then he likes him on fire.

spk_0:   21:49
I mean, it's stacking in a lot of ways, Like even if you look at the costumes. Katie's costume very demurely, always wearing long sleeves and long skirts. And Kim Dickens plays her sort of like party girlfriend. And she's in Minis offer love. She

spk_1:   22:06
does not live. She's just not from the same decade as the rest of the characters in this movie, both in her dress and hair. But I love her. I love that actress in general.

spk_0:   22:12
I love her, too, but I was just making a point about the tackiness. So her cut character's costume completely differently and so is Katie Holmes, and this is to sort of tell us, Oh, no, Annie Wilson is good, but the's other women might not,

spk_1:   22:27
which is really offensive. I think, and that's such a such a basic word to use. But it's funny. That means not funny is awful that Katie Holmes is reduced to playing like such the whore to Cate Blanchett's Madonna, where because Greg Kinnear and Greg Kinnear kind of houses flirtation with Cate Blanchett's character, and they have they are, they honestly have a weird chemistry, which is strange. And a lot of this has to do with the fact that Greg Kinnear does play a sympathetic character in the movie. At this point, if you're not clocking the Vatican's character because he's playing someone who lost his fiance, and you do find out that she was cheating on him with Chiana Reeves. But there's this chemistry between them because Cate Blanchett plays a widow, and now he is not technically a widower because he wasn't married to her. But he's someone who has lost his partner, and so they're bonding in that way and probably wondered, since Kate Blanche is not super interested in this story, Maybe she should have been the Kitty Homes part, and maybe she would have been with the pushback against some of the grossness of it. Like I almost by her Maura's that and like selling that more because I think that the whole murder mystery of it all, it doesn't seem like it's important. The movie doesn't want a position as important, but it takes up so much of the second half of the movie, right?

spk_0:   23:46
Yeah, it does. And there's like they even go to court like this is where it lost me on Like, it's a court case now.

spk_1:   23:52
Yeah, exactly. And like Cate, Blanchett's having to testify where, like, who is calling a medium who was calling it backwards, Medium to testify, testify, defense or prosecution like she doesn't serve either of them? Well,

spk_0:   24:06
yeah, I I want to go to Cate's performance, and I want to mention something that you mentioned about her Chemistry was great. Can you? I would give her credit for that sort of what you termed as a little off, because I think she's supposed to be playing this woman who is interested in this man, but also because she's a medium. She knows he's the bad guy. So I think Kate calibrates that well enough that we see that something is off. Despite her supposed attraction to him. She's not really willing to go further with him, and maybe that's with tension. She brings it out. It's certainly not brought out in the script, but

spk_1:   24:48
totally the performance or wait it out. And also there's layers to it. There's, I mean, if you're if you're are trying to obscure the fact that Greg and yours is a killer, it's smart in the sense that Cate Blanchett, in addition to being this person who has visions, she's also mourning her husband, like her husband, has recently passed away. And so, after the death of a partner like that, the first person you go to after that it's always it's always difficult. There's always a sense like Am I betraying the person? Am I betraying my dead partner in some kind of emotional, spiritual way? I'm talking about the ways in which men like male screenwriters sort of basically characterized women in these very narrow emotional ways, but I think that she does sell a lot of that. But I also think that the casting of Greg Kinnear is perfect for this. But I also think that Kate is really adept at selling the chemistry to get back specifically to her because she she does have a way of getting really great stuff out of her co stars who are maybe not. I don't want to say we're not doing great work otherwise, but like to use the example of her and Leonardo DiCaprio in The Aviator, for instance, I don't think that she is the best female performance in that movie. I'm on record, kind of controversially s sticking that cape, that Kinsale. It's the best that we've seen in the lead. So no, no, no. I think they're both. I think they're both amazing. I want to be clear, but and I think Cate Blanchett totally deserve that Oscar for playing Katherine Hepburn. But I think that Leonardo DiCaprio does his best work in scenes with her, and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that she has a way of drawing interesting, not just in terms of the script, but she has a way of drawing interesting like gestures and glances and the way she does a line reading and the way she sort of carries her body. She responds very well to her co stars in a way that makes them do the same, and I don't think that a lot of actresses are good at that. I'm sort of in the middle to positive on her in general, but that is something that she does very well that not a lot of people could. D'oh! I will say that about her.

spk_0:   26:54
Yeah, I agree. And I think one of the things that I missed about her performance in this movie is she is a big guest general actor, and her gestures can sometimes be construed by some people as being too big. For instance, if you consider the work she does in Blue Jasmine or in Carol or even in Elizabeth or Bob Dylan and I'm not there where where she acts was her whole body. But also she makes big gestures, and I love gestures, and I missed them in the gift. She's very subtle and is not doing a lot gesturing, so that was one of might negative takeaways of the performance.

spk_1:   27:35
Yeah, what yours and also what you were saying about her sort of picking this because she liked the story. But even though even if the character necessarily wasn't there for her specifically on the page, I kind of have a more cynical take on it. And that's something that were something that were dancing around. Is the fact that Billy Bob Thornton wrote this movie? Yeah, and its people say it is mother right? That's I mean, his apparent, I guess his grand is that his mother, his grandmother,

spk_0:   28:04
um, I am Devi says his mom.

spk_1:   28:06
I mean, they did pushing 10 together and they were friends. So I think she did this movie for him,

spk_0:   28:10
Which he did this movie the year after pushing.

spk_1:   28:12
Yeah, like I think I tripped

spk_0:   28:16
on the set of Washington. Who knows?

spk_1:   28:18
Yeah. I mean, he and he is someone who I think he isn't. I wonder if he would have been a better director for this. Honestly, then Sam Raimi and I don't know if this is a Kate Blanchett podcast. We don't have to get into the Sam Raimi out of it all. But Sam Raimi is a peculiar choice for this.

spk_0:   28:36
Yes, but I guess he was known for its horror, and this is it's trying to be horror. Or maybe it is giving as the trappings of corner because he directed it to your point. Maybe another director would have told it in a different way. Instead of telegraphing everything with,

spk_1:   28:53
Well, it's both things, right. It's what I was what I just said. And it's also the very, like, a stupid thing that you just said, which is that this movie does not like where you're like, Oh, this is a courtroom movie. Now we're like, this movie doesn't even know what it wants to be. So So who is the right person to direct a movie like that? And where and where is the room for Cate Blanchett's performance to be calibrated in a way that makes sense in a broad sense, were like It can do something for her career, right?

spk_0:   29:18
Yeah, And this movie didn't do anything for her career. See,

spk_1:   29:22
devore negative?

spk_0:   29:23
Yeah, exactly. She did. Elizabeth became an international movie star, and I guess Scott a lot of offers because she did work. Ah, locked between you know, 99 which is the year after Elizabeth until 6 2007 She was in a lot of movies in that time, and not many of them work, but I just want to concentrate on these sort of two years after Elizabeth. So she gets Elizabeth's gets an Oscar nomination. Everybody knows who she is. Everybody says this is the next great actress. Basically, that was her reviews from she

spk_1:   29:57
gave her. She gave a great performance right after that, though,

spk_0:   30:00
in The Talented Mr Ripley and that

spk_1:   30:01
was Oh, yes,

spk_0:   30:02
a subversive step to take is your first role. She took a small role, but in a movie that obviously worked and with a lot of actress of her generation and all of them except and Davenport are great actors considered great actors now.

spk_1:   30:19
And in a movie with the actress who everyone wants to rhetorically position her as like being in competition with where she's like, Oh, you're going to paint the sexist narratives where women are against each other We were in a movie together. Now, now what?

spk_0:   30:30
Yeah, and actually they shot it before the Oscars, but obviously after they made their films,

spk_1:   30:35
I know I'm not just I like I like. I like my version.

spk_0:   30:39
Your vision is better. It's a good story. And then she decides to do this Long Island housewife, another supporting part in Pushing Tin, which your story says that's where she decided then to do the gift because she worked as Billy Bob Thornton there. And then she did. The man who cried with Sally Potter, who's an a Vanguard filmmaker. And that movie is also weird. But she has a supporting part. So I think she really was trying to get away as far from Elizabeth as she could playing all these all these roles, you know, three of them are supporting parts. You know, Kristina reaches the lead in the man who Cried, and I guess Angelina Jolie's the leading pushing thing. It's sort of a four persons story, but she's definitely forth in those four.

spk_1:   31:26
Yeah, third, this was like, This is a very interesting career because I feel like a lot of doesn't say a lot of groundwork is being late. But it's not even that because, like a lot of love, these movies like the gift sort of didn't do anything negatively or positively positively for her career. But given what came after, they sort of serve as relics of how she isn't like. I think. I think the gift shows that she's an adventurous actress, which which is something I do appreciate about her, like she will take. She will take roles that were people like What her and that we're like even something like the Thor movie. And you can argue maybe that was a paycheck, but she clearly enjoyed what she was doing in that or what she doesn't. Something like Hana the Joe right movie was with social Ronin. I think she finds a way she often finds a way, even if I don't always love the result. She finds a way to take roles where she is able to, or at least show through the script different sides of what she can do and like she's not afraid to take supporting roles, too, Which is something like, You know, you would think, given the ego of Hollywood and what, like, you know, after you come after the presumptive second place in best actress, know that you would have seen that you want to get another one like and she's not. She's not afraid to take movies where she's not the flood of Morning, the focus and

spk_0:   32:48
you know, the famous story from the Shipping News, which is a terrible news. But there is a terrible movie, but there is one sort of anecdote that fits. Wait we're talking about. Which is? She was offered the lead part that was eventually played by Julianne Moore. And she's like, That's not interesting. I'd rather play that small part that dies 10 minutes into the movie, so she has always sort of done this. It's and I have to say, as a fan of hers since Elizabeth I was really frustrated in the early two thousands because I was like, Why is she in these movies? Why isn't she leading movies? But you know what I think? In the end, she sort of worked in a lot of movies with a lot of different directors, played a lot of different types of stories, like, you know, the gift pushing tin, the man who cried and and Elizabeth don't have anything in common, nor do the filmmakers behind them. So I think that gave her a lot of experience and a lot of to sort of hone her craft.

spk_1:   33:45
And she was She was young when she did like she was younger than me when she did all these movies that we're talking about. She

spk_0:   33:50
was 21 when she shot the gift.

spk_1:   33:53
Yeah, exactly. and I'm I'm turning 33 in like, a few hours and I'm thinking to myself like, Yeah, she was She was figuring out what her like what? Her what her deal was basically after she broke through and Hollywood suddenly wanted her. It's like OK, well, now Hollywood wants me for everything. I know I'm not good at everything because no one is good at everything. What am I in sort of suited for? And I think she is more or less found that she has found that through a lot of like she knows now. Like, I don't think she would ever work with Ron Howard now, Yeah, but she but that but that. But that's because she worked with him on the missing, and she now no, She worked with him on the missing when she was, like, 33 or whatever, and she now knows not to work with Ron Howard. Not to see that Ron Howard is a bad director, but I don't think Ron Howard and Cate Blanchett make for a good match. So

spk_0:   34:43
she now has a Western on her resume

spk_1:   34:46
and and also she now has a Western on that on that resume, and there are people who think she's good in that movie. So and that's not a movie that again, that's not a movie that hurt or harmed her because that was the same year that she was in the Lord of the Rings Return of the King like she was also in the Lower the Rings movies, which didn't necessarily which which didn't necessarily do a lot for her in terms of artistic cachet. But in a way, they did because she had these movies. She was. She has

spk_0:   35:13
famous because of them. And she

spk_1:   35:16
is famous because of them, absolutely,

spk_0:   35:17
that most people have seen her and

spk_1:   35:20
and look how she was Look how she was able to make the Lord of the Rings trilogy work for her as an actress in a way that Miranda Otto was not in a way that Liv Tyler was not. And she was in that she was in those movies lesson both of those actresses. She

spk_0:   35:33
had a big, impactful scene that people always quote right, so I think she

spk_1:   35:38
still are not that well, I mean And also she's Cate Blanchett and they're them.

spk_0:   35:44
Yes, that's true. So I wanted to ask you. I've already sort of mentioned that my favorite scene was also I can't call it favorite. The juvenile BBC scene are there, and I struggled. I always ask people what sort of scenes worked for them, but I kind of struggled to come up with the scene in this movie. This movie just has to be taken as a whole. Aiken name several things that were my least favourite, but I can take its I can't think of a scene that really worked. Do you have a scene that really worked for you in this film?

spk_1:   36:11
I think although I don't like the con, the context of what's going on with her and the Sun's especially the oldest son, because they're doing that thing. They're doing that sort of thing that they often do with mothers and their young sons, which is stunned to really good effect in something like Terms of Endearment or Erin Brockovich. That's sort of just like resentment boys at that age have of their mothers, especially if they have absent fathers. And it's like amped up to 11 in this case. And really it feels really misplaced in the sense that their father is not absent. He didn't leave her. He died and she's not the one who killed him. So I know you're mourning your father. But like, you know, calm the fuck down, kid, like, why are you yelling at her? But I think that her I think she has good maternal chemistry with those kids, which is such a dick thing to say. And I also but I also think that comes out in her scenes. I think that that comes out of her scenes with Chiana Res. Honestly, we're like that scene where he comes over to her house at night. Yeah, is a really unsettling scene because that's the first appearance of key honorees where he comes over to her house. I believe that night to threaten her.

spk_0:   37:23
Does he strike her in that scene to know he doesn't write her every time he sees

spk_1:   37:27
he doesn't He doesn't hit her in that scene, but he her kids are kind of in that, like in the it's kind of like a tract house, so they're like in the back, sort of, but they can see what's going on. I think that's very effective, and I also think the scene where that one son is walking home and Chiana re sort of threatens him is very menacing. I think that scene doesn't I think. I think that seemed, goes a long way in terms of advancing the narrative and showing that he is threat like he could not showing that he could have killed Katie Holmes, basically, because he's like threatening this kid. And then Giovanni Ribisi shows up, and I don't enjoy that as much because he goes big as you always as we're kind of dancing around to Yovani Ruby. See, What do you think of him in general?

spk_0:   38:12
You know what I haven't thought about him in many years, but when I saw this movie, and then I went and looked at his filmography, I think when this movie came out, he's second build after Kate and it's not alphabetical. So I think, and also just looking at this sort of movies he made around this time and what he was doing at that time. He was sort of this great upcoming actor, but I've always, especially in this film. He's too much, too much, too much, too much. What do you think?

spk_1:   38:48
I agree I mean, it's not. It doesn't make for an interesting conversation, but I agree. I think I think that we have people like Michael Shannon. We're like even Michael. Shannon is a rare male actor where even when he goes big, I'm into it and he sells it like even if he goes, I kind of wonder why it was Richard Jenkins and not Michael Shannon, who was nominated for Shape of Water. But Michael Shannon is really Michael Shannon really gives us. What do you have on me? Was what Giovanni repeats he was trying to give us, especially in this. Like, can you imagine Michael Shannon at his peak Powers in the Giovanni Ribisi role in this movie? Then maybe like we could have been able to do something with that ending and sold it.

spk_0:   39:32
That would have been a great combination of him playing with Kate. A lot of her scenes are richest with Giovanni.

spk_1:   39:41
A lot of her scenes air with him, and they're supposed to. They're meant to deep in both of them emotionally in terms of their performances, and it just really serves to show the deficit between what she's trying to do and what he's trying to do. You know, I have

spk_0:   39:57
to, you know, when we talk about Ben Foster like Ben Foster is probably what Giovanni Ribisi hoped he would be, because I get that Ben Foster is sometimes too big. But I feel like Ben Foster burning with emotions where when he goes big, so there is a sense of honesty in truce to to what he's doing, it's not Oh, it doesn't always work. But there is

spk_1:   40:22
a degree I mentioned then Foster to point out a deficit, even though I don't I was just think. I don't always love him when he goes big, but he goes big better than Giovanni.

spk_0:   40:31
Yeah, and you're funny. I just I just thought he was like a kid playing, you know, I don't know in a school play or something. It's just that this was not a good prefer.

spk_1:   40:41
It was not a good performance, but not only that. It's the type of performance that someone's giving where I felt sad watching it, and I had a nice talk to myself. Did you have a ruby see die? And I'm like, I looked at him like, No, he didn't. I like to see one of those actors who died a few years ago. Now he's not. But I felt I feel like he definitely thought he might get a supporting actor nomination out of this If, like the chips fell right and like, you know, it's it's being have lined by a best actress nominee. I bet he thought it was possible, and I know I don't know what they reward. And male acting is so weird like this, this easily could have been a best supporting actor nominee, given some of the provinces nominated

spk_0:   41:18
movie made a little bit more money, he would

spk_1:   41:20
have. Yeah, which is wild.

spk_0:   41:24
You nail that on that? Totally. He would have totally got the nomination because it's not worse than Stanley Tucci in that movie, where he's a serial killer, The Lovely Bones

spk_1:   41:35
and it's not worse. It's not worse than it is worse than J. K. Simmons in Whiplash, but it's not. It's not Maura emotionally complicated than that. It is not Maur. It's not. It's not more emotionally rich than that, like it really is just loud. And I think that's what that category is. A lot of time, except except when they're except when they're trying to communicate the Sylvester Stallone. No, we really, really, really, really, really don't like. You were going to give best supporting actor to this British theater actor named Mark Rylance, who was in a movie that we didn't even like that much. Not so much. We still don't like you.

spk_0:   42:13
Yes, and you know it's speaking of actors. When I read, I went and did some research about, you know, just press From the time this movie was released on, a lot of it was saying that all these actors, including Chiana Reeves and I don't know why I signed to make this movie one. STE. Knew Kate was in it, and they all were paid scale. So I guess that's what's part of the marketing. You know, look at this upcoming actress. Not upcoming. She was already considered the actress the leading lady, and that's why we work for less money, which is sort of

spk_1:   42:46
I don't want inch. I don't want a marketing point to make. I don't I don't want to tell tales out of school. I don't know anyone's personal life, but I'll just say that I believe I believe that about canneries. I believe he honorees saw that Cate Blanchett was into it and he signed on. I bet he waas. I bet he was a Cate Blanchett Stan, and I'll just leave it at that.

spk_0:   43:08
Yes, now you know what? They're both in their fifties now. They should make another movie together where maybe it's better written and they have more since to get and they don't have to go big and they just be calm together. That would be great.

spk_1:   43:24
He's tricky, though. He's, he's such calories is a good actor when he's good and he's so tricky, too.

spk_0:   43:32
I mean, he is an inconsistent actor, but there are so many other inconsistent actors who have a reputation that they're fantastic actors.

spk_1:   43:42
Yeah, and also watching this movie like, First of all, Chiana Reeves is a person of color like, let's acknowledge that, so to see him playing like this Southern white supermen, I'm not that people of color can be white supremacists. They can be. It's very it's very complicated white supremacy. But to see him in that role was very upsetting. To see him like any like the weight, a telegraph that he's like the worst of the worst were like, not only does he beat his wife, and not only is he coming to Cate Blanchett's house to threaten her about it, where he's like, you're just some which China Phil ideas in her mind you no better than a Jew or a ***. It's like, Well, what what do either of those things have to do with being a witch? First of all, it's just just

spk_0:   44:20
telling us more that he's the worst.

spk_1:   44:23
You're just shot. You're just trying to tell us that he's racist. But why? Which, by the way, like we don't need that there aren't any. There aren't any black characters in this movie for him to There aren't any non like characters in this movie for you to do anything with that anyway. So why are you even going there? Yeah, and also like Jeremy Renner. Clearly, Jeremy Renner was making movies at that time. He was in indie movies like Put Jeremy Renner. In that part, he'll fit right in. Not not not in a bad way about Jeremy Renner, but I actually think that joint you play. I actually think Jeremy Renner is an actor who could have done something more interesting with that, Thank ya Know

spk_0:   44:59
Yeah, I agree. Yeah, can is nothing good in this movie. So kind of where we like where we fell on this movie is that it's sort of entertaining because it's so bonkers, and that's why you should see it. But there is really no reason to see, even if you wanna if you love any of these actors and they have been much better in many other movies, and this brings me to the question of doesn't have any cultural capital like it's easy,

spk_1:   45:27
no one will do. The only members who lives no well, no one remembers this movie exists. I feel like it doesn't cause it's not It didn't it doesn't serve. It doesn't serve as a landmark or a benchmark in anyone's career. Who's in this movie, right? Like who remembers that? Because this is This is 2000. So this is the year before Cape Blanche. It started being the law, the rings movies, and that's really when, like Elizabeth made her famous with people like us. But like Lower the Rings made her a name with people who like that, maybe like a household name with people who, like, maybe see, like, 20 movies a year. You know, I'm saying we're like, Let's not, um

spk_0:   46:09
yeah, I mean, there

spk_1:   46:10
are probably

spk_0:   46:10
people who only sold a load the ring movies and that's it.

spk_1:   46:13
Yeah, exactly. And exactly. And by the time, by the time she won for The Aviator no one was thinking about or even remembering that she was in this

spk_0:   46:24
or any of her movies between 99 2004 except maybe the talented Mr Ripley.

spk_1:   46:30
Yeah, except it's weird that she got nominated for, like, straight Golden Globes here and there like she got nominated for Veronica Garin for a Golden Globe. I remember which who even remembers that that movie? I saw that

spk_0:   46:40
if you remember after she lost for Elizabeth, people were trying to get her the Oscar. So the Golden Globes, of course, would be like, Well, if she wins an Oscar, we want to make sure we nominate her first because they come before the Oscars. So that's why they nominated for almost everything she may

spk_1:   46:57
exactly, And that's probably watching one. That's probably why she won for The Aviator because that was a three rate that what that was a three way race right between her and Virginia Madsen and Portman.

spk_0:   47:12
Yes, but I think the economy would not have resisted giving an Oscar to an actor. Playing one of them, an Oscar winner like that is just too much for them to resist.

spk_1:   47:24
Well, in that she did it. She did everything right. And that performance is great and it helps that the movie is interesting. I don't know. I don't know if the Aviator is a great movie, but I think it's an interesting movie, and I think that the movie is very alive when she's on screen. And that's Hey, that's how you win an Oscar. Maybe one of the conference

spk_0:   47:42
an episode for an aviator. You'll have to come back.

spk_1:   47:45
I don't want to watch The Aviator again, ever like I don't want to watch. Well, I want it. I don't want to watch The Aviator in its entirety, and I'll watch Kate scenes again, both gates. But do you want? I want to ask you something, which is, Do you like we're kind of dance for months and you said that you do you like her accent and this but Do you think that just sort of divorcing from like what? It did it for her career. And compared to other work like, Do you think this is a good film performance that she's giving in the in the gift?

spk_0:   48:15
No, I don't think it's one of her better performances at all. Like I wouldn't put it in even a top 20. Uh, I think she I think the character is a nothing. So the performance Indian becomes nothing too big. But I think she has outwardly did. What she could do is like like the technicalities of the performance. Or they're like the way she holds her body the way she speaks, she got the accent like these things, that sort of outward performance things. She nailed them because she's the fantastically technical actress, so she nailed the technical part. But there is nothing to the part for it to be a great performance.

spk_1:   48:57
Yeah, this is a classic example of a a Nen active protagonist, like she is the inactive protagonist of this movie, where she just sort of exists at the center of everything that's going on around her, and she is completely inert in terms of her character arc. There's no journey that she goes on, which makes it feel very much like a not Kate blanket roll. And I'm not. I'm not going to say that it is, Ah, Sandra Bullock role, but its central Bullock role in the sense that this is the type of role that sent would have gone to Sandra Bullock at this time. I'm like, It's weird that this is not Sandra Bullock.

spk_0:   49:29
So I want to go back to something I said earlier, which is, um, the Scream Queen. Like I. I didn't envision anybody else in this role, but I wanted a little bit of, you know, Kate saying, You've got a hurricane in me You know that that big scene affair in Elizabeth the Golden Age she would have been in the same movie is Giovanni Ribisi. If she did that,

spk_1:   49:53
I I don't know that any Wilson has a hurricane in her. She maybe has a drizzle,

spk_0:   50:01
and that's why I think,

spk_1:   50:05
even if something like the Life Aquatic Steve Zizou, which is a nothing performance for her as well in terms of what that movie envisions air doing and what it allows her to do, but she's formidable in terms of her presence in that movie.

spk_0:   50:16
She has a strong presence, always, but not in the gift. Surprisingly so before I have a few questions for you about Kate. But before I get to them, is there anything you wanted to say about the gift that we haven't talked about?

spk_1:   50:31
I like to score. I thought the score was really, really I really found myself noticing to score this time around. Like I thought it was very evocative and would have, like, been an easy nominee for the Oscar in a better movie where it fit. I think I thought, This is great. I don't know that Billy Bob Thornton is a good writer after watching this movie because Well, yeah and yeah. I mean, there are other things about Sling Blade that helped him win that screenplay Oscar, like the fact that he was in it And

spk_0:   51:04
yeah, that was more about rewarding him than actually what he wrote. And he hasn't written anything in a while, right? I mean, I I don't remember certainly that he has been anything in the last decade. So

spk_1:   51:17
is he. Is he still working because, like what? What has he done? What

spk_0:   51:22
he is doing TV shows. He was in Fargo. He was in something else, and I don't remember its name.

spk_1:   51:27
Oh, yeah, He had a great haircut in Fargo. So I'm working for sure. Yeah. I mean, wouldn't wouldn't this Wouldn't this demoralize you was a writer if this was about your mother, and this is how it turned out.

spk_0:   51:41
Yeah, but all the things that you mentioned about, you know, the scenes was the sun. And you know how she is a cipher. And not

spk_1:   51:49
just that. It's his fault. It's

spk_0:   51:51
his fault because he probably can't see his mother from from a distance to actually write an interesting character for

spk_1:   52:01
I like, Yeah, which is why I, like don't fucking write movies about your mother.

spk_0:   52:06
Don't listen from the gift. Kids

spk_1:   52:09
don't write movies about your mother when you're a man and you have not done any emotional work on yourself, which he clearly hasn't. Because he still said he still will sometimes say gross things about Angelina Jolie. And like you guys were married forever ago. Get over it. Sorry.

spk_0:   52:22
Uh, so I'm gonna ask you a few questions about Kate are you ready?

spk_1:   52:27
Yes, ma'am.

spk_0:   52:28
So we talked about a lot of her movies, and we mentioned left Hermes, which is great because that's why we're here. But I want to ask you a question that I don't think you have mentioned. Which is when was Kate underrated? She is somebody who is often considered overrated just because of her reputation. But when was she underrated to you?

spk_1:   52:50
This is a weird answer, but I think she's underrated and I'm not there because I think that people view that performance is very much gimmick and the and the Oscar nomination that went along with it. But I think it's very, I think that's a brilliant performance, and it's a performance that stands out from a lot of her career in general and also a lot of what she was doing at the moment. Like if you sort of position that against notes on a scandal, which is not, which is a performance that I enjoy watching, but I don't actually think that's a great Cate Blanchett performance, because I don't think she plays stupid very well. She's

spk_0:   53:26
way too smart to play stupid. Why do you like I'm not there?

spk_1:   53:29
I think that she really dug into becoming, such as? It doesn't even it doesn't feel like she's playing Bob Dylan. It feels like she's playing an interpretation of Bob Dylan. And I was I'm not someone who is super well versed in the history of Bob Dylan. But I just found that character, Jude. I believe it's the character that she's playing. Jude Quinn. I felt like the whole gimmick of like, Oh, she's playing a man I felt like that was so a little of it of the impact of dapper homes to me. I think that her reserve and for sort of bombast because you could feel her playing unearned bombast very well in the scent, Not maybe not unearned, but, like, maybe overstated, like Queen Elizabeth No earned her bombast like she she, too, can command the wind, you know. But when Jude talks about him, when Jude sort of talks about himself or around himself in these glowing terms, like it just it felt so astute. And that's not just like a lot That was the script, obviously, and Todd Haynes direction. But I think that her just stipulation was she so got the way that that kind of man talks about himself.

spk_0:   54:39
Yeah, I like that performance. So it's a turn because it's so big and has so many gestures, and she's always never still in that film. She's always moving, but she found something there that just and also it's It's one of the films you know dot Haynes really knows how to frame actors, and she is one of the best actors in filling the frame. So, yeah, I agree with

spk_1:   55:06
you. And I say it's weird to bring that up as an underrated performance because she I think she came for. She probably came very close to winning for that. What do you do? You agree?

spk_0:   55:17
I think so, yes. But

spk_1:   55:20
I mean, who knows what was going on in that category that year? But I think that you're

spk_0:   55:24
you're right. It's underrated in that when people mention her performances,

spk_1:   55:29
they produce an

spk_0:   55:29
inch in it.

spk_1:   55:31
Well, then they were, and I think that people, when they even when they talk about her in the context, in the context of that Oscar year, I think they reduce it. They reduced that performance and, you know, a lot of people were reducing it in reaction to being like. Well, well, look, look at what Tilda Swinton's doing in Michael Clayton, and that's such a great performance, which it is. And why don't they ever reward? Why don't they ever reward subtle but no nominated work like that? Well, they did. They did it. The best performance in the category one. Tilda Swinton was the best. And she won. Can we stop shooting on Kate now?

spk_0:   56:03
I know, Right? Please do. So what? Who is your favorite? Kate? Scene partner.

spk_1:   56:12
You know you anymore. I can't.

spk_0:   56:15
You can say what you want. I'm just kidding.

spk_1:   56:17
It's Bernie Marr. Ow! What the fuck are you talking about? It's Rooney Mara. No, I also think she I also think she did do. And this is not an actor. I favor, as you know, but I think she did great. I think she did great things with Leonardo DiCaprio in the Aviator. Um, I think I think you

spk_0:   56:37
need to find someone of her stature to work with again. I was, you know, she was just casting that Guillermo Del Toro movie where he was attached to it, but he dropped out, and now it's gonna be Bradley Cooper like he should have stuck to that movie actress Kate again,

spk_1:   56:51
like she is always really doing interesting work with people, even if even if the movie is not interested, I think Greg Kinnear does some of his better acting in general. He's not an actor who I feel, and you got a way about as an actor. But he does good work with her like he is most alive in this movie when he's on screen with her and Kitty and Katie Holmes. Thank you for showing up. Here is your site card.

spk_0:   57:20
So the flip side of that question, who would you like to see her work with? Somebody she hasn't worked. This could be an actor. It could be a director. It could be a costume designer, You know, whoever you like.

spk_1:   57:31
I have an answer for this that I've had for years, but it's three answer. It's it's three people. It's a three people answer. I want her and I want Nicole Kidman and I want Kate Winslet toe work to be in the same movie together. Yes, because I feel like they are so representative of those were all best actress winners, right Yes, they are. And I feel like they're all sort of representative of an era. And they kind of overlap, obviously of like, Oh, when is she gonna win? Oh, she won. And but they don't. They're not in projects together because I feel like they wouldn't be in proxy together because they would be occupying the role that the other two would play right And

spk_0:   58:19
probably all know, I find,

spk_1:   58:21
you know, that even though they're very different, actually, and but, like Hollywood is reductive in their women, so it is what it is. But I want to see them in something because I want to see. I don't even know that it would necessarily be good. But I think it would be interesting to see I just want to see in the Coal Kidman and Kate Winslet and Cate Blanchett bouncing off of each other. And why has that not happened in any context? Like has have any of them done any movies with any of the other, too? Like I don't think so.

spk_0:   58:46
No, No, they haven't. But

spk_1:   58:49
because we're it works

spk_0:   58:50
was a lot of women unlike you know, she works. Mr D Dan. She's worked with tomorrow she was. She's her new movies with Kristen wig, so she, you know she finds a way to work with women. Even so, Hollywood silos, women and men in them like to only work with men in the movies.

spk_1:   59:08
Anyway, I want to see Nicole Kidman, Cate Blanchett and Kate Winslet movie, not playing sisters. I want to see them in something Maur interesting them more opposition. More. Yeah, more oppositional doesn't necessarily have to be them fighting. I don't want to see them fighting over a man, please. But I want to see them like I don't know, like maybe maybe something as simple eyes like. They live on attractive land and someone keeps, you know, putting the garbage like someone keeps putting the garbage on someone else's property like you could even be like a dark comedy about.

spk_0:   59:42
You know what? I think it should turn. She did. The maid's on stage was Isabel, who pair she and Isabelle, who pair is just not great in English so she can take the maids make a movie out of it. Was Nicole Kidman that would be my answer.

spk_1:   59:58
Have you seen a

spk_0:   59:59
suggestion I've seen? She's Yeah,

spk_1:   1:0:01
Yeah, I, um Well, yeah, three

spk_0:   1:0:06
parts. I mean, there is the part that so that the sisters in the mist and their mistress So it's three parts. It could work.

spk_1:   1:0:12
It's probably it's probably too much of a pipe dream to imagine them all in the movie. But I will take I will take a blanket with just one of them, and it's probably more likely that it will be kicking. It will be Kidman at this point, don't you think?

spk_0:   1:0:24
Yes, I think Blanche it and wind slid for a long time because they have the same first name. They were sort of interchangeable a little bit and people not like, you know, because they're such different actors. But just in the consciousness of people who maybe don't follow movies as much as you and I do,

spk_1:   1:0:47
Yeah, I agree with that. Like they're both. I mean, they're not both British, but she's Kate Blanchett is Australia, and I'm sure a lot of people assume she's British, it and reductive way, and she plays a lot of Brits and, like they're all from this, it's all of the commonwealth. Let's just be honest. So it's it's It's very easy for someone who does not watch a lot of movies to very innocently conflate them. I agree.

spk_0:   1:1:14
So, Kieran, this has been a great conversation. And I think ending it with your dream of the two Kates and call together is like a good way. So thank you so much for coming on my cape slash podcasts and

spk_1:   1:1:28
thank you for having me. I feel like I put that idea out there. That's never gonna happen. And now I just ruined because now, Alec, this is the first time I said it out loud. And now I'm sad that it's not gonna happen.

spk_0:   1:1:38
It might happen. You maybe Maybe you never did. We didn't. Do you ever think that Nicole and Reese Witherspoon we're going to be in the same project together? That happened.

spk_1:   1:1:49
I never would have imagined that my wildest dreams you're absolutely right. And that it would work so well, at least half of it.

spk_0:   1:1:55
Yes, And before we leave. So why don't you tell people where they can find you on twitter on social media? Wherever you wanna guide them to and tell us where we can find your podcast?

spk_1:   1:2:09
What? You can find me on social media at Dan Black Roy, that's D A n Black like the color r O I D. I hosted You started at podcasts and you can follow that on Twitter, right? You started at pod All one word and you can find my podcasts. You started it. You can find it on apple podcast. You can find it on stitcher. You can find it on Spotify. Any place that you listen to podcasts, you can find it.

spk_0:   1:2:34
Thank you so much. And you can find me on Twitter at m E Underscored, says and followed podcast at Sunday's escape. And until next time, thank you for listening.