Cate Blanchett in "Documentary Now" and "Manifesto"

spk_0:   0:00
this episode of Sundays with Cate is sponsored by Masami. A premium hair care line was a Japanese Ocean botanical cold make. Kabo Masami was created to give your hair the ultimate in botanical hydration. Your hair will feel more manageable. Softer, shiny er, an overall healthier after just one use Misamis gender neutral with light fresh scent available as shampoo, conditioner, styling, cream and shine serum. All designed to be lightweight, non greasy was good ingredients. Vegan and cruelty free. Find us at love. Masami dot com L O v E M a S a m i dot com What do you do? On Sunday, we talked about Cate Blanchett, the actor in costume. He awards, but mostly Blanchard of it all. I'm not acting thing is a mother Erica. This is Sunday's escaped and I'm your host for Todd. Welcome to a new episode of Sunday's Escape. This isn't retarded. I'll fuck. This is our podcast series about the films of Cate Blanchett, and we have a couple of films for you today. But before we get into does let me welcome my guest. Shelley Farmer. Hi, Shelly. Hello. Before we start talking about Cate, tell our listeners a little bit about you.

spk_1:   1:30
Ah, hi, Iron Shelly Farmer. I am a writer for places like People magazine Slate, Roger Ebert and I'm also the film publicist at the Brooklyn Academy of Music.

spk_0:   1:42
So we are talking about the episode of documentary now Waiting for The Artists, which start Kate and was released earlier this year. Later in the program will also talk about Manifesto, the artistic project that she did with Julian Rosenfelt a couple of years ago that started on insulation and became a movie. But let's start with Waiting for the Artist, which is an episode of the third season of documentary. Now it is as all of documentary now, episodes are a spoof of a documentary film. This time it's the Marine Abramovich film. The Artist s President, which is a 2012 documentary chronicling Abramovich is exhibit and retrospective of the same title that ran at the Museum of Modern Art in New York in 2010. But let's stop documentary now Shall you love this show? Right?

spk_1:   2:32
I love this show. I cannot believe that the show exists. It is so specific and so niche and it's so completely thorough that it can't be cheap to make, and it's also made by some very high profile comedians who are surely very busy. And yet, somehow the show, I guess, was like willed into existence by a bunch of film nerd Soon you that they needed this in their lives.

spk_0:   2:56
It is so funny. I I haven't watched a lot of episodes like my first introduction to it was this episode, and then I went back and watched a few. It is so much fun.

spk_1:   3:04
It's great. Yeah, it's, um, anyone is not aware of what it is. It's, um, a series in which each episode Satya rises a specific famous documentary. So they've done like hoop dreams. They've done a great gardens. Jiro Dreams of sushi. My personal favorite is one that was this season, this a satire of D. A. Pennebaker's the company original cast album

spk_0:   3:31
called Coop, and that was so much fun I love You, but no one of the very first ones I saw.

spk_1:   3:37
Yeah, it's got an incredible original score and just like BTK repeat So spot on about like seventies musicals where everyone is like having a mental breakdown because there recording over 24 hours, they're all smoking packs of cigarettes all night long.

spk_0:   3:49
Company is so big in the culture right now, it's a marriage story. It's coming to Broadway in next a couple of months. So but we're here to talk about waiting for the artists. And this is the episode Kate plays Isabella Barta, who is a take off Marina Abramovich and the artist this present like it is known as this Ace mimic, right? Like she did Katharine Hepburn. She did Bob Dylan, but I actually when I saw this, I have not seen Artist is present, and I just thought it was a funny performance. But then I looked at DIS clips from the artist is present, and I was amazed about how spot odd she is doing. Marina Abramovic.

spk_1:   4:33
Yeah, it's very, very accurate. To the extent that I was reading earlier today, I think it was art Net. I had an interview with Fred Armisen, where he talked about making the episode. Fred Armisen plays her sometime lover, a sort of an

spk_0:   4:49
artist demote. You guys

spk_1:   4:51
called Demon, who is a bit of a

spk_0:   4:53
Hey, he's not real. He's not the real artist, the real artist. Isabella.

spk_1:   4:58
Yeah, it's basically vaguely based on a brown witches relationship with the artists will a a bit more spiky and

spk_0:   5:07
a bit more absurd,

spk_1:   5:08
as it were of service. But yes. In this interview, Fred Armisen said that that K plan Chet's dedication to this was such that they filmed in Budapest. And when she came on to set, she had gotten, like, false teeth put in so that she could more accurately like, have her face looked like brahma bitches. And like, mimic er speech patterns.

spk_0:   5:28
Yeah, yeah, she is a perfectionist. So the story full is kind of the artist is present story. So it is about Isabella, part of preparing for a retrospective, a retrospective of her art in her native Hungary. So they made her Hungarian on and they shot him, put it best. And so then, during the half hour show, they get to recreate a lot of her previous exhibitions until you get kind of takes on a lot of Marine. Abramovich is work, but the main sort of set up the main story is about her inviting. This ex lover who is terrible, basically a terrible man, played bye Fred Armisen to come and share the exhibition with her. And then, of course, there is a twist, which is a very funny

spk_1:   6:20
Yeah, it's interesting because obviously a bronze, which is like the main point of reference in this. But I you know, I know artists, no expert on performance art. I'm like a complete dilettante. But like there are moments that feel like they are referencing other like, famous works of performance art, like there is one in which she has a bucket on her head with a smiley face. Thing it It has to go answer a phone ringing in the middle of the room, and the men in attendance are told to put things all over the floor that she'd been like Trips and falls on becomes injured. Passengers do it. It's a great piece of like slapstick comedy, but it also echoes the Yoko Ono cut piece where you know people. She was sat in the middle of the room. People started cutting bits

spk_0:   7:00
of her losing. Yeah,

spk_1:   7:02
which then it's sort of like about like the hive mind of the audience. So people started out very, very slowly, taking like small bits and then, by the end of it, like especially men, became very emboldened. Like if you watch footage of it, there's like this one guy like, sort of peacocks up and like, smiles out to the audience and then, like, starts cutting her top off like hunter bra straps. Yes, GS like cover her breast. But yeah, So the episode is also like super tuned to the sexism in the arts

spk_0:   7:33
world. Yeah, I will say it's not. Subject is. Actually the text is how. Basically Isabella is an artist who works for her. Art on is brilliant, but De Mo doesn't do anything. Yeah, then Charlison started

spk_1:   7:47
like a parasite on her work, like they have one piece that is literally just like a recreation of her own work. When he's asked about it in interviews like when When she did it did, it was one man, and when I did it, it's a people.

spk_0:   8:00
So he's stealing from her. He's killing her. He's stealing her thunder and getting all the credit. Even like the funny. There's a funny little bit where they do this performance piece where they have. She goes up the stairs and he's going down the stairs. Even doubling down stairs is so is so much easier. He still takes the elevator and I start talking to people and

spk_1:   8:20
never doing Skip. It says,

spk_0:   8:21
Yeah, so human that he messes it up. Which makes it very, very funny. And, yeah, Kate and Fred Armisen play off each other very

spk_1:   8:31
well. It's funny that I mean, are we allowed to do spoilers?

spk_0:   8:36
No. Sure, just it's it's on Netflix. Everybody can see it's 27 minutes. Just you can stop right now. Go watch it. Come back. And yes,

spk_1:   8:45
yes. I mean, this sort of like whole thrust of the narrative in this is that he is this sort of like freeloader fake artists. It feels very of the moment, considering the art Basel of Banana and sit in tow him in which you know an artist like take bananas to the wall you are selling for $125,000 that was been eaten by another. Another artist. Yes, I would like a a recurring thing is that demo? This other artist is like I put on a show and I might point us to not do any work. I go to the corner store the day before and I buy a bunch of crap, huh? So you see her, like, sort of objection throughout. It actually constantly uses her and gets a claim for, like doing no work while she pours her entire self into this. But the twist at the end is that, like he gets his comeuppance and then she tells the audience that, like she was never really the victim in any of the scenarios, but because she's a woman in our, it's assumed that she must be a victim. But she actually was. You had control of everything the entire time because she's an artist, which I think also opened some interesting questions because it's sort of like maybe straightforward reading of it. Is this or like, feminist like girl power? Think of like she actually outsmarted them all. But I think it also opens Cem difficult questions about artists of, like, authenticity and, you know, life versus art like making your art out of your life. And does art lose its value if there's if it lacks that authenticity, which I think really connects to manifesto in an interesting

spk_0:   10:13
ready? Yeah, yeah, there are a lot of questions because both these artists, even though this is a new absurdist half hour. Like the characters, both of them use their life as there aren't. Everything they do is it's performance art. But it's also using not just their life but also their relationship with each other. And again, they use it for their art. They use it against the they use. Their aren't against each other. So it's your point. It's really interesting.

spk_1:   10:38
Yeah, it's a sort of like mutually parasitic relationship, even if, like the demo character, maybe isn't aware of just how much she's using him as well. But, yeah, it's a feels very cheesy toe keep referring to Sondheim, but I

spk_0:   10:53
think we can, yes, his part of the documentary Now family right they didn't

spk_1:   11:00
like guys makes me think of like the song. Finishing a hat

spk_0:   11:05
like that

spk_1:   11:05
idea that, like everything in your life, is like simply grist for your art and like, Is that like, ultimately a sort of cruel way to live or in an authentic way to live? If, like everything you do is mediated through this idea of using it to Korea, create art, um, bring at So I think that I don't know if they need you intended. It is a more sort of straightforward, like she wins moment. But I also find it kind of troubling is love.

spk_0:   11:31
Yeah, and that's what makes you like this is, you know, a TV show, 1/2 hour comedy TV show. But to just only thing that you brought up, it's so much deeper than

spk_1:   11:40
that. It's very smartly written. Yeah,

spk_0:   11:44
ado, would you say, if we just go a little bit away from this episode, would you say that all the episodes are that this way? Since I think you've watched them all

spk_1:   11:51
right, I watch them all. I think that this one more so than a lot of the other ones, and I think it because it's so dependent on what film is

spk_0:   12:01
parenting. And maybe this one brought, Do you think?

spk_1:   12:05
Yeah, I think there s one inevitably raises those questions just like by virtue of the sort of art that, like Abramovitch, doesn't like the sort of movie that the artist is present is. Um,

spk_0:   12:15
I also would like to think that you know the people behind the series. We're just when they got an actress Cate Blanchett's caliber, Maybe they raised their game a little bit more.

spk_1:   12:23
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, because, yeah, this is like super detail like I mean, if you look at something like they're like Jiro Dreams of Sushi parody, I think it's called Like Juan Loves Chicken or something that it's a lot more simply straightforward. Sonny Heartwarming Family's story doesn't have this silly all these like layers about, like, often Justin Representation.

spk_0:   12:47
Yeah, and I want to talk a little bit about Kate's performance. I think she is so funny. She's so funny in this. In this role, she usually sometimes plays ridiculous like she has done, you know, Indiana Jones and and has been Cinderella, where she plays these very ridiculous big performances in studio movies. But I don't think she's ever been this funny as she is in waiting for the

spk_1:   13:08
artist. Yeah, I mean something that I find interesting about her as an actor is her sort of like hyper theatricality and the sort of like archness that I think president pretty much all of her performances that I've seen, like she's not someone that I looked to for you naturalism. I think that she, when she finds truth in her performance, it's usually through through artificiality on. And but I mean that being said this, this performance has a lot of affect to it. Like she got a fake teeth. She's got, like, the accident. She does like Marina Brahma just laughed like you got earlier. Earlier

spk_0:   13:42
I told you that was so play that scene where she's like, I'm feeling it in my uterus and doesn't laugh And I thought that was just something she said. But when I saw a gram of a cheap, Yeah, it's

spk_1:   13:53
perfect, but that excited like they're They're all these elements of artificiality to it. But it's such a like full body performance, like you see her doing these like art pieces within the film like they have all these, you know, quote unquote like archival performances on film. And it's her, like running and throwing herself against a wall like her, like doing this like slapstick stuff, like falling on her ass, like actually likes slipping on a state board like that. There is, like, full commitment, which is

spk_0:   14:22
they shot it all in like, nine days, and she did all these things like she was inside the refrigerator and doing all these things and you know it's it's great that she's very committed. I also loved the tenderness that she brought to the performance. She was completely nonjudgmental of this woman, Isabella Barta, And I think this is what Sam Adams and Slade gets at in his review, and I'll quote it here. There is a genuine and familiar tragedy underneath bland shit Slavic accent, and she doesn't play the part for laughs. There's humor in the episode, but it's the humor of recognition, not release, even if it's fiction waiting for the artist still feels like it's documenting something. Really, the accent. Obviously, she's somebody who mails accents all the time, wherever she is, wherever whoever the character he's playing is from the accent is always perfect in this one. I would disagree with that based on manifesto. Well, we'll get to that. But like I was thinking of like doing Captain Peppers doing the gift or when she does the missing or all these other where her perfect sort of New York up every side accent is in blue jasmine and this is another one. She got Marina Abramovich, the cadences, the accident, the way she talks. I just love like I can hear it in my head right now when she's like it's supposed to be radical, I can't do the accent, but it's just so funny. It's what she's saying. It's funny, but also just the way she says it converted. Nervous. This is a big deal, I tell you. Got pain in my uterus already. Each room has one of my historic peace be formed by by someone else. And then I will be here in the last room. And then I cover the walls in the in gasoline. Then I liked the gasoline. Big Five, and then I run out of the museum before it burns down. What? Don't you like it? It's very unsafe. Yes, but art is not supposed to be safe. It's supposed to be radical. They're still rules toe stratify us indoors. So throws the city. We could apply for permits. No, it's ruined. You were doing Fred Armisen earlier, and you were much better. Thank you. Yeah,

spk_1:   17:00
yeah, yeah. I think she She's really great with the accent. Work on this.

spk_0:   17:05
Yeah. Amazing, precise accident. So I think we both recommend waiting play artist, right? It's It's only 27 minutes, so much

spk_1:   17:16
fun. Oh, no, it's great. I mean, honestly, you know, so you know, shame to Julian yourself, but I think that this is a much more interesting portrait

spk_0:   17:24
of the artist than manifesto. So manifest, though, is the other a Blanchard project that we are talking about today. It was an installation that became a film, so it is directed by Julian Rose, and Felt was an artist. This is the official synopsis, so it's a little bit pretentious. It says Manifesto pays her march of the tradition and literally beauty of artistic manifestos, ultimately questioning the role of the artist in society today. To put out a manifesto, you must want ABC to fulminate against 123 Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, all current art is Fick. Nothing is original. Okay, so you could steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration and fuels your imagination. Okay, so it's basically 12 artistic manifesto's, all of them delivered by Kate wearing 13 different characters. So she plays 13 different characters, and when you say play is it's they're not full characters, there is just it's the makeup, the hair, the way she looks. The costumes are different from scene to scene. There is one of them where it is actually two of her. So she played off herself. But they're not full characters because there is. They don't have a story. Always till they do is either they deliver the manifesto straight to the camera or the manifesto was sort of red in the voice of the character Wild a shoe, but it is sort of virtual also. I think one of the empty piece of this is definitely the makeup and hair designer because she played the homeless older man, she plays British punk rocker. She plays, I think, Eastern European, maybe a choreographer, a very angry woman at a funeral. So these are just so this 13 of them. But these are just some of them. This was an installation first, and then it became a movie, and I think they made it a movie because they wanted to pay for the installation. Basically, I saw the installation of the armory in New York, and I have to say the installation was better than the movie. What do you think,

spk_1:   19:40
Shelly? I did not see the installation. I I'm sort of Tauron on the film. I think that there are parts of very interesting. I think that as a showcase for her technical ability as an actor, it's very impressive. Like you said, she's not really playing some like layered character slings of like, broad archetypes. And you think it was like a surely a fun exercise for her to, like put on these different wigs and try out different accents

spk_0:   20:08
and to do it all in nine days or 70 something ridiculous

spk_1:   20:12
like, Yeah, And it was clearly it's funny that you mentioned that they did the film to get the budget basically for the gallery because it looks incredibly extensive. But yeah, I don't know. I find something sort of sorting through my thoughts on this, but I find something vaguely suspect about the premise. It's like we're talking earlier about, like when this movie came out and when the document Knox Okay, yeah, we were a little bit unsure on, like when the movie itself actually came out with the gallery at least was in 2015. It feels very much of that time. It feels very pretty trump in that is this sort of like self reflective meditate actual art for art's sake piece bit navel gazing right. It's a big table gazing, but more moving that I think it's interesting that it's taking least different artistic manifestos that, generally speaking something like this, where people set down these sort of rigorous rules for, like art and meaning and like ways in which we should pursue truth, they often come out of times of like, tumbled or, you know, particularly political suffering. Um, and it's but piece is sort of like kind of like flip attitude towards them. Like it, the way that they're contextualized is often times like almost condescending

spk_0:   21:39
there, one in particular thinking off.

spk_1:   21:40
Well, this I don't mind so much because it doesn't feel like it was coming out of such like a sort of fraught political moment. But the scene where she's playing schoolteacher reciting the Dogma 95 manifest it was real. Fuck you to the Dogma movement because he's literally playing a schoolteacher, two small Children reciting this manifesto and then going amongst the students like she's giving it to them as an assignment. Yeah, going amongst them as they're like writing on their papers and going like, Oh, no, we only use natural like no No, no, no, no. You don't use genre like it's especially coming at, like almost the very end of this project, just like pure artifice. And it's like, so, like, antithetical to everything Dogma 95 was advocating for which, like, you know, the biggest sand of like the dog with 95 films. But it's like it's actually kind of funny in

spk_0:   22:25
the way that it was like they were definitely 95 because your point, everything about this is not dog. Yeah, they spent most of, I think, the time in creating these fake character by wigs and makeup and costumes and everything on her playing all the parts, which is fake Thio and businesses to Dogma 90. I don't know. It's like 95 will make a scene with kids. Yeah, I like the

spk_1:   22:52
fact that she's literally speaking to Children in the Star Tactic way. It's like, Okay, we get it. You think that like dog tonight if I simplistic and like juvenile, but even like the DA Da segment where she's literally delivering at a funeral, ashes like that's the culture. It's like a bit on the nose, but yeah, but it is interesting, like you know, something like data that was coming out of, like, a very tumultuous period, or even, just like the idea of stacking these manifestos side by side, not creating any sort of like qualitative difference between them? Necessarily. Oftentimes, the words are obscured by the sound design. It tells us that the film didn't take any of them seriously. That's his project. But it's also like that feels weird in 2019 in a time which, like I think, a lot of artists we're all currently trying to figure out, like, How does art respond to crisis and to see something that is so flipping about the idea that, like art, could have any sort of impact on that? It's interesting.

spk_0:   23:48
Yeah, it, I don't even think it works is a movie. So, having seen the installation, the installation I was interesting in that you basically had to go around on your own time. And, you know, there were 12 installations and it is the same segments that are in the movie they play on. And then there was a point when they're old time together and there is a point which is the last bit in the movie where all 12 installations come together and wherever you are in the exhibition, the screen will show the same things, and it will be 12. Cate Blanchett's basically Coming at You delivering s So it had an effect as an exhibition that I think it completely loses it in the movie. And I don't think it works as a movie

spk_1:   24:35
and also like Final Image like

spk_0:   24:37
The Brady Bunch, he is not anywhere at all. That's well, yeah, but in the exhibition you see that 12 times because if you want to see every every installation you have, I got to go from one to the next door. And by the end, you've seen 12 times. And it's a cumulative effect. Actually believe in effect.

spk_1:   24:55
Sure, yeah, I think it's an interesting exercise. I do think that Rosenfeld a little bit is like hedging his. That's maybe not having a special maybe, just like, sort of like outright dismissing the idea of responsibility or of an idea that there can be a correct way to make art, which is a completely fair perspective to have. But even the like the title cards used in the beginning, which you know he's got several quotes like saying from Molly A. Bitches as primitives Manifesto. Art requires truth, not sincerity. There's this alien started volunteer think it's how you pronounce it a quote that all current artist spake. And then this jar misquote when she says nothing is original, steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. So this is sort of like a magpie process in which he's like borrowing from a lot of different people like and like a the end. There's a door, a quote that says like It's not where you take things from it's where you take them to in the dog 95 section. So this is sort of like Mac. My mishmash it that ultimately, like signals to me that he is an artist doesn't really have any sort of code, which is, I mean, that in itself, I guess, is a stance. But it seems weird in the context of all of these, like pretty rigorous ideas, like what art is.

spk_0:   26:12
Yeah, I I didn't get either from the insulation or from the movie. What the artist point of view and this is All I got is that they delivered these manifesto there was definitely work and meticulous work and in filming it and the installation itself in the performance. But to what end,

spk_1:   26:29
right? I don't know, right? And it's It feels strange that, like it doesn't feel like there's any sort of, like, center of gravity, like there's no essential point of view of like, what makes good art, but like in the way that he has this sort of, you know, kind of condescending approach to something like Dogma 95. It's like, Okay, so we know what you don't think is good.

spk_0:   26:49
What? Do you see it? Yeah, yeah, there's no point of view, but it is like there are fun aspect

spk_1:   26:56
of it, that's for sure. Yeah,

spk_0:   26:57
no, the performances, the performances, they're uneven. Not all of them work that they are sort of fun, like I love, even though I love the dot a segment because it's just she has the weight. She's covering her her face Is that a funeral? She's old and black, and then every time she will just throw dot off. And the way she said that she changes the way she says it every time. And it's just as the performance be if it's fun to watch Dada, Dada, Dada, Dada, Dada, Dada, Dada. Some of the other things I really enjoyed in this movie is that she makes a little dull of herself. That was fun to look at. She pays homage to Norma Desmond was her headscarf when she's playing the choreographer. And also, I think, also in the Dada segment. It's very funny where sh Kate is dragging us all, all of us who are on Twitter on social media when she says, When this course his opinion, when you don't have to know anything yet you think you know everything Drag, escape, dragons love it.

spk_1:   28:07
Yeah, yeah, like as an exercise for Cate Blanchett. I think it's a really good time, but yeah, I just have been in like, you know, maybe I need to see it again. We need a bit more distance, but I just truly couldn't dig down to, Like What? What's it? What's it all about? Alfie. You know, I sort of got, I guess, conceptually this idea that like he iss synthesizing all of these different artistic points of view, and he's having this one artist's deliver them all with sort of like the implication that, like every artist, contains, like the entire history of art within them and angel these multitudes. But I just felt like a bit of a cop out today.

spk_0:   28:43
Yeah, maybe. But I want to go back to sort of like the conceptions of the character in the performance of it, because I don't know what does this add? Two. Kates reputation as an artist as an actor? Jeez, primarily an actor off stage of screen. So she did this collaboration with this visual artist on because I think because she is this world renowned actor, then it became a movie, but sort of like, What does it do to her reputation? Or what does it add or subtract? Like I think, for instance, you compared to documentary. Now that is such a fun performance in a TV show people can just enjoy it just shows that she can go. She could be more fun than she is. Maybe sometimes the role that were given to her and movies afford her. But this one is the knees. A little strange is that it shows her versatility as an actor playing 13 characters in 94 minutes or and shooting them in seven days. So hooray! That's that's definitely something. You know, it's an accomplishment, but I don't know if it adds anything to her reputation as a

spk_1:   29:45
novice. I would say, from my point of view, my favorite performance that I have seen her do is when she did Uncle Vanya with the Sydney Theatre Company that came tow center. I thought she was gorgeous in it, like sheets struck. It's like such a striking figure like and she was like, deeply like soulful eyes. They will play so many notes, whether it was like tragedy or, you know, this really like skilled comedy. But I think that you wouldn't know that she was an after capable of that from watching this, because I think that this as impressive as it is, I think it could also be lobbed against her as sort of proof of. I think maybe he's a point that maybe some people have that she is like a very skilled technician, but not necessarily like someone with a lot of

spk_0:   30:31
soul. Yeah, and these these characters don't have sold just because of the concept of the movie. Yeah,

spk_1:   30:37
exactly that they have their really impressive technical achievements on it shows someone who's like very in command of her voice and her physicality, but yeah, but you wouldn't know that there is, like, maybe greater depth to hurt from this. But yes, I think it may be like typifies like a certain type of Blanchett role that it may be not like the most impressive part of her.

spk_0:   30:56
Yeah, I love this sort of. I've been reading reviews about Manifesto. So there is this quote from David here in Rolling Stone. Who says there is a story about it? Turn of the century theater queen Sarah Bernhardt reading the phone book so emotionally that the audience was left weeping. That's what Blanche it is doing here. She adds a human element. She can turn anything into art, even artistic navel gazing. And I think this this comes back to what what we were just talking about. And she is compelling to watch, because who wouldn't want to watch her do 13 electricity? I love that that segment where she's talking to herself and she ends every sentence as both characters by saying, Kate, Yeah, yeah, it's like a fun moment, but it's also it's just like to what end? Like I don't think it sort of adds anything and the whole project. I do think the whole product is a little bit of enable gazing, but it's also like for someone like me who adores Kate. I enjoyed these 94 minutes because I got to see her play so many different things.

spk_1:   31:54
Sure, yeah, I know. It's interesting that David here quote because I yeah, the idea that, like, you know, Sarah Bernhardt could bring you to tears. I nothing in this performance would bring me to tears like E. I think I got most frustrated with this sort of like British punk because it was just, like, so affected and like, there were so many, like, kind of like broad ticks and like it felt like she was like a ping archetypes that I've seen in movies before. Rather than being a person

spk_0:   32:26
in my glorious isolation, I am illuminated by the marvelous incandescents off my electrically charged nerves.

spk_1:   32:38
But yeah, just like the artifice of it was so apparent, which I don't have any problem with. I love theatricality and acting, and I like him a personal enemy of naturalism for the most part, but but, yeah, I I found it more distracting. It felt like someone doing like an acting class exercise. And it felt like a fully realized performance.

spk_0:   32:58
And maybe she and Rosenfeld had fun doing it, coming up with a concept. I mean, it says in the notes that I, you know, when I was doing research that he sort of thought of the concept when he saw I'm not there. And so what she was doing is Bob Dylan and came up with this concept inspired by that. So I definitely think they probably had fun together, working on it and collaborating. And I think the the insulation works better because there is just defect in the insulation that you don't get from sitting in a movie theater receding, sitting at home, watching this. So maybe I don't know. I don't think this should have been a movie, but I'm happy that it's a movie because I can justify Wanna watch Caitlin just say dot off 10 minutes? I can just put it up. Yeah, it's

spk_1:   33:41
definitely got, like, a lot of like, sort of like small pleasures in it. That's funny, saying that it seems like they had fun on it. That's kind of like when you come out of a plane like the set was gorgeous. Yeah. Your friends, like men in a show. Like What do you think? You're like your costume designer. Great. Really impressive. Uh, you guys think we have a lot of e.

spk_0:   34:06
I think they did. And I mean, I think also adding to the fun not only with Kate and Julian Rosenfeld, but also her husband and Children appear in one of these segments on. It's funny to see them sort of like acting with her, because they're probably just thinking off. We have to deal with one of Mom's artistic project.

spk_1:   34:26
So they're the kids in the husband of the dinner table. Yeah, right. Yeah, but she had a very interesting

spk_0:   34:31
Southern accent. Yeah, it's not as good as the gift.

spk_1:   34:35
Actually, there is Some of these actors, I think are just brilliant technicians of great accents. But when they try to two American ones, it gets a little dicey. Yeah, I mean, I mentioned, uh, Kate Winslet earlier, but she's like the most agree. Just one for me. Always. She's always just like, Oh, my God. we gotta get out of here. What are we doing?

spk_0:   34:56
Listeners, If you can tell by now, Shelly is an actor.

spk_1:   35:02
Yeah, I feel that criticizing a fire superior

spk_0:   35:06
acting well, you know, accidents don't Everybody can do, though. There are some people who cannot do an accent to save their lives. Like Nicole Kidman, who always sounds like Nicole Kidman no matter where

spk_1:   35:18
you go Big little lies. I was like, I'm not sure where she's supposed to be from

spk_0:   35:22
From Planet Nicole Kit.

spk_1:   35:23
Make that sign because she's Nicole.

spk_0:   35:26
I wouldn't mention one thing about you know when that one of the things that I really like about Cate Blanchett's performance that she is a technician, but she's also a master gestural actor, and she's somebody used this hard body. Well, she's always she uses gesture so well in performance. And this is one. This is one why I sort of enjoyed watching manifested because there is. There's all all these little gestures in all the performances. For instance, when she was playing the TV newscaster, they shot her at the beginning before the newscast starts, and she's changing her shoes and she likes, you know, standing on one leg and dental the other. And it's just these little things that build character in in a really movie that would build a character in this. It was just fun. Besides, that are just fun to watch.

spk_1:   36:16
Yeah, I think like her gait is the homeless man. I think that that's really fantastic, and you have to go back to seeing her and Uncle Vanya like her Physical work in that show was just so incredible. I mean, part of it is that, like she's got this incredible like instrument at her disposal, she's so tall and she's lean and like when she first made her entrance in the play, it was like in this white suit and just like her silhouette, she looked like like a fifties fashion drawing and like just the way that she knows how her body looks and that she can manipulate it to its best effect is really impressive. But I will say when she was playing the British punk, she was doing a lot of arms stuff that I was like tone it down.

spk_0:   36:53
I think one of the reviews that I was reading said something about she needed. The director did exactly what you are. You're so manifesto were kind of mixed on. But, you know, if you love Cate Blanchett with you, do you do? If you're listening to this podcast, you can just go watch it. She plays 13 different characters. It's 90 Minutes doesn't really work, but it's fun to watch just the performance

spk_1:   37:21
of it. And I also think that, like it's very worthwhile watching you do it as a double bill with the waiting for the artists. Like I think that they really complement each other really well,

spk_0:   37:31
yeah, and that gives you two hours very well. Two hours about being an artist and what it means and tell us more. Why do you think they complement each

spk_1:   37:38
other? I think that they're very interesting for the moments in which they're occurring. I think that this sort of like, you know, obviously they were plenty of things for people to be angry about as artists prior to the Trump era. But I feel like it wasn't so much just like in the air of like the cultural consciousness of like having a sense of responsibility in art. So this happened 2015. It feels it feels like a bit more normalized. That would be this sort of like internal looking like art for art's sake sort of project, Where is like, you know, Dr Documentary Now, episode is obviously like 1/2 hour silly comedy, but also the fact that, like, yeah, made a point of really addressing, like gender imbalance in the art world that it feels like it's taking seriously the idea that it needs to have something to say. Yeah, I think just like seeing the way that she approaches performance in each one. The ways in which, like a lot of the characters and manifestos or feel like sketches, which I think makes sense considering, like the time restraints and the fact that they are such short performances, where is like she dug so deep on, you know, this half hour TV show?

spk_0:   38:49
Yeah, that's the biggest surprise to me is like This is like it seems like such a great concept for a performance like G. Reedy did her homework, got everything, and she had an idea about Marina, around which she had an idea about her art. She had an idea about how to perform it like it's so well modulated for just you know how short it is. Then what? ISS?

spk_1:   39:12
Yeah, anything. Also, the fact that manifesto is so straightforward. Gallery art that sometimes feels like a parody is calorie art. Where is the documentary now? Episode is a parody of performance art that honestly sometimes sits on some, like pretty conceptually like kind of moving pieces. Like, even if they're sort of ridiculous in their execution, like her with the bucket on her head. It's a silly piece, but it's also one that

spk_0:   39:38
you have said,

spk_1:   39:39
and you could see it happening in a gallery context to

spk_0:   39:41
me, like, actually, that's pretty lovely. Yeah, yeah, that that part of it was very sad to me. Like, Wow, you know, somebody did go through this, right? It was It was hurtful, right? Yeah. So we had documentary. Now, that episode is It's so brilliant. So now I'm gonna ask you some questions about Cate Blanchett. How so? Do you remember? Sort of like your first introduction went 1st 1st movie. You saw her.

spk_1:   40:17
I think I can't remember the first time I saw her because it feels like she's just, like, been in the cultural consciousness for so long that like my entire time, as

spk_0:   40:25
was the late 19. Yeah,

spk_1:   40:26
my entire time is like a movie lover. She's just been so present as someone who is, like, you know, known as this sort of like top tier actor. Um, but, yeah, I think that my serve generalized impression of her is I often think of her and sweeten it sort of in parallel because they're sort of similar looking. They're both these sort of like, you know, theater trained actors were certainly affected, but no are really fascinating to watch. But it's been interesting to see, like how their careers differ because I feel like Tilda Swinton tends to go for, like, completely batshit projects. And they're like she's someone that you could like trace from her time like the doorman. And then Kate works only what's more mainstream way, but brings this sort of like artistic integrity to

spk_0:   41:13
these kind of mainstream films. She does work with the biggest directions, like Scorsese.

spk_1:   41:18
Yeah, yeah, but yeah, no, it's, um, yeah, she's a street feels like someone can bring a bit of like sparkle and integrity and strangeness. Thio two more mainstream work.

spk_0:   41:32
Is there a performance of hers or a movie of her. Is that Oh, you like on Lee? I like or something? You know, something that people don't. Some performers that hell don't talk about when they talk about Cate Blanchett.

spk_1:   41:44
I hate to keep going except Uncle Vanya performance. Like, honestly, it was It was huge for me. It was like a really, really big deal was her and Richard Roxburgh. And, like, it's one of the best theater performances I've ever seen together were electric.

spk_0:   41:58
Have you seen her? Um, streetcar, I haven't No, uh, she was amazing at I think that's one of the best theater experiences I've ever had. But you also love Oscar and Lucinda,

spk_1:   42:12
right? I do really love Oscar and Lucinda because I was big fan of the book. And Gillian Armstrong is, of course, incredible. Yeah, I think she's, like, really luminous in the role, because in the look, I think that that Lucinda's described is like a bit more of an awful someone that, like Tilda Swinton would maybe playing. Yeah, but I like that she especially because, like, great finds, is doing a lot in the movie. But

spk_0:   42:35
he's being the Oppel. Yeah, you

spk_1:   42:37
have on so that she's, like, sort of grounded and that she's so young in it. And she feels so like fresh, like, bursting with energy and like, e think we know Think of her sort of this like not a silly grown dumb of the so whatever, but yeah, just to see her at that early stage in her career. And

spk_0:   42:56
it feels different than what she

spk_1:   42:57
does. Yeah, it's really exciting. And I mean also, you know, I was not a very good film, but Oceans eight she's great. Yeah, she and Sandra Bullock have, like, amazing chemistry together and, like just to see her do something so like smooth and like, sexy and tough, like really cool. I think her her

spk_0:   43:16
character in Ocean Thing is maybe the closest of a real life or so I

spk_1:   43:20
think so, yeah,

spk_0:   43:21
and it's fun. It's almost Christmas. So it's Carol Time. Harold Mass. Yes, so I'm assuming you like you love Carol.

spk_1:   43:30
I love Carol. The year that I came out here, Carol Home Christmas party. Did everybody come dressed up like fifties outfits? I made the like spinach and eggs. I love Carol.

spk_0:   43:42
So tell tell, Tell us something from Carol. A scene, a moment. Anything beneath that you particularly like a back out.

spk_1:   43:51
Okay, so hard. There's so much that's so great about it. I mean, the scene where Mara first comes over to her house, It's Oh, God, just so lovely. Just yeah, you know, I feel like a lot of we're film lovers. Like especially queer women were always, like asking for, like, something that's not just a period piece for people like steal glances, which I get, but just like this, the specificity and the delicacy of the ways in which, like every minor touch that they share feels so freighted with meeting is just lovely and the fact that they get a happy ending that it doesn't have to be like the lesbians. I, you know, it's

spk_0:   44:31
it's such a beautiful ending. But I just love what you said that everything they do is has meaning and that that's just I think that's a lot of people say nothing happens in this movie, and I'm like, Well, maybe you weren't paying attention because every minute, so many things you see when she put her hands on her shoulders, you see that look, yes, a love a glove. Lindsay. Carol is amazing. So would you say that Rooney Mara is your favorite blanket scene partner? Or do you have somebody else? And Mike,

spk_1:   45:02
Um, you know, maybe she is. Yeah, because I Rooney Mara, I think is really interesting on screen. Like she's somebody I could never imagine. Like doing theater, because it seems like her powers a performer comes so much from, like, the way that the camera reads her face. Yeah, which is so perfect for this film. That is so much about these, like, small exchange glances and like, Yeah, it's, like, temperamental dynamic between the two of them. That, like Kate, is big, stupidly huge force of personality and that, Yeah, that remark was close, like, sort of sanguine and, like, withdrawn its Yeah, they've got a really lovely dynamic together.

spk_0:   45:40
They do. They come from each other so well. And Carol works because they were both in that movie at the top of their game metals so different and giving such different performance.

spk_1:   45:50
Yeah, totally So, yeah, it doesn't hurt.

spk_0:   45:55
That doesn't hurt at all. Is there somebody that you would like to see her work with?

spk_1:   46:00
I was looking for notes earlier and thinking about this, and I feel like there are 1,000,000 people. But off the top of my head, I think my number one be Michael Shannon.

spk_0:   46:10
Oh, uh, the minute you said it, I'm just I think they

spk_1:   46:14
both have the same, like theatricality of the sort of, like, mannered thing. But they also are so unbelievably charismatic and, like, really hold the screen. Because I think that one of the challenges with like people acting against her is that, like her Christmas was so overwhelming that it's easy for the other person to get lost on. I think that they would really, like, be each other's match. And honestly, I would love to play together.

spk_0:   46:38
Yeah, you know, she is someone who goes back to the stage all the time. She's never I think she hasn't been on stage isn't the present, which now is maybe three years. That's the longest time that I haven't been on stage. Eso It's about time, Kate, if you're listening.

spk_1:   46:52
Come on. Hey,

spk_0:   46:53
don't Broadway was Michael Shannon,

spk_1:   46:54
please. Oh, but to go back to screen partners. Yeah, I love her and Ernie, but I gotta say it hurt in Richard Roxburgh together works

spk_0:   47:02
in strange Oh, my God. Yeah, I missed that Uncle Vanya, but I saw everything else that she brought to New York as a maid. I saw streetcars are present, which had Richard.

spk_1:   47:12
Yeah, they got a similar thing of like he's I mean, he gets put in these kind of, like, small roles in films. For the most part, he's another one. He's got, like, such presence and was, like, super charismatic. And he's like a very physical performer

spk_0:   47:23
on stage. And they have played so many right together, you know? So many plays together throughout the years. Shannon Roxborough. Kate, do something together. That would be great.

spk_1:   47:33
I love it. Designed for living with three of them.

spk_0:   47:36
But thank you, Shelly. This has been so much fun to talk to you.

spk_1:   47:39
Thank you for having. Yeah.

spk_0:   47:40
Thanks for coming on the podcast. And before we go, tell our listeners where they can find you and your

spk_1:   47:45
work confined me on Twitter at Shelley s. I ki l l e y be farmer, or you can visit my website, Shelly farmer dot com

spk_0:   47:56
and give Shelia follow on Twitter. She is a great follow. I treat so much, it's embarrassing, it's fun and it's about things. I think if you're listening to this podcast, you will care about E. And I want to thank shame Assaraf, who edited the Dada clip for this episode and You can find me on Twitter at M e, Underscore says, and follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram at Sunday's escape until next time.