Cate Blanchett as Katharine Hepburn in "The Aviator"

spk_0:   0:00
What do you do on Sunday? Way talked about Cate Blanchett, the actors, costumes, the awards, but mostly Blanchard of it all. I'm not acting thing is a mother. You Erica. This is Sunday's escaped and I'm your host for Todd. Welcome to a new episode of Sunday's Escape, and this week we are talking about Cate Blanchett's 2000 four's filmed The Aviator, in which she played the great Katherine Hepburn. So Kate the Great playing The First Gate, the great um, and for which she won her first Academy Award and my guess I'm very excited to have him with me today is writer and critic Manuel Bed in court. I'm unwell, Um, so excited to have you here to talk about The Aviator. I remember you talking about help her, and I thought you would be the perfect person for this.

spk_1:   1:14
I do love Hepburn, and I love Kate, even if I don't love the Aviator. But I have. I have lots of thoughts and I can't wait to you to dive in.

spk_0:   1:24
That's great. So let's dive in. So before we get to the Aviator, let me ask you first about your impressions of Kate. So do you remember? So the first time you saw her,

spk_1:   1:34
I was I was trying to rack my brain because I must have seen Elizabeth and Ripley roughly right after they came out. But I don't remember like seeing them, But the first movie that I remember like going to the theater, buying a ticket and remembering this is like a Cate Blanchett film is Bandits. Which is her Bruce Willis. Billy Bob Thornton. Really weird threesome, criminal movie and anything odd like I have this, like, very distinct memory of I was visiting my family and we all went to the theater and we saw Band aids and then of us knew what the hell we had watched. And then I must. And then we saw a few months later Fellowship of the Ring. So in my mind, those were like my first introductions to Kate. Although again I feel like I must have seen Elizabeth and Ripley before. She just didn't register with me, and I I don't understand why. Because, of course, she's amazing in Ripley, and she's amazing and Elizabeth especially compared to bandits, which is sort of like low like second tier Blanchet. I don't think anyone talks about this movie. I don't think anyone watch that movie, but that's the first time I remember being like, Oh, this redhead. No, there's there's something here.

spk_0:   2:52
Yeah, we're now going to break to do a karaoke version of Total Eclipse. Yes,

spk_1:   2:57
yes, yes, that's the one Steam and I'm like, I just can't I remember so vividly being like Oh my God, who is this woman?

spk_0:   3:05
Is your favorite Kate performance

spk_1:   3:07
my favorite K performance, and it's taking me a while to enjoy it. I think for the longest time, I loved the movie and I always thought that Kate was miscast. But the more I've seen the movie, the more sort of her performance has grown on me. And I love her and notes from a scandal. Yeah, which is again, it's It's taken me a long time to realize that that that that's the case that I that I love the most causes decay. That's most different, I think from what we think of her, which is, like, very composed, very regal, very contained. And she buys just not that, um although I obviously have a soft spot also for for Carol, but knows notes is is, I just love that movie to pieces. I

spk_0:   3:54
love you too. And that's such a great answer because most people I ask this question, it's either Carol or Blue Jasmine. Yes. So I'm glad that there is, um, a notes on a scandal for Sheba Hart. What do you think of when you think of Kate?

spk_1:   4:11
So I for me, like again? I think I think glamour, I think Rego I think that she sort of this otherworldly creature and I think that has a lot to do with again. Lord of the Rings, being one of the first movies where, like, I really met her as an actress and sort of it had such an impact on me. Um, and I think the more I've gotten to know her over the years and seeing her in interviews, I love that there's this, like Rego Kate, you see in red carpet wearing beautiful dresses. But there's also this like because she's Australian. There's this like, earthy Kate was like down to Earth and lost a laugh and wants to joke, And I really can't talk about anything with anyone and really have a good time, and I think that the mixture between the two is, I think, what makes her such an exciting presence on screen that she can really shift between the two between really, really opposed, but also have you grounded and sort of like a really earthy kind of performance and really rail you in. So that's what I That's what I think about her on. I think that's why the Bandits Lord of the Rings pairing in my mind and my every sort of like those are the two things that I remember her being earthly but also otherworldly. A member, too, at the same time,

spk_0:   5:24
well, she's definitely leaning into the glamour Kocian in The Aviator by playing Katherine Halpern. So that's who she plays. The Aviators from 2004 directed by Martin Scorsese and starring Leonardo DiCaprio, is Howard Hughes, and this is the Onley time so far that she has been in a Scorsese movie or acted with Leo, although I think it's ah, it did bring out shades of her that we haven't seen before. Um, before she did this, so maybe hopefully she could do it again. So Kate appears. Ask a 27 minutes into the movie. So guys, you have to wait. If you haven't seen this movie, you have to wait a little bit for you and

spk_1:   6:08
career creating 27 minutes.

spk_0:   6:10
Yes, we have to follow how it used through the making of his film Hell's Angels and a cameo from Gwen Stefani as Jean Harlow before Kate Affair and I Love the G appears like she gets the movie star treatment who the camera comes in. It's to the set of Sylvia Scarlett, which is the 1935 movie that George Cook or directed and Cary Grant, starting with Katharine Hepburn. And you see the backs of cooker and granite and it says their names. And it's a Kate Hepburn, but she's not in the seat, and then it pans out and she's sitting on the beach on a blanket. And that's when Howard Hughes gets off the plane to talk to her so she gets the movie star treatment. As befits both Gates. Have you seen Sylvia Scarlett? I've just seen, like scenes on YouTube from it, which is, I think it's a movie where heparin plays a woman pretending to be a man.

spk_1:   7:13
Yes, I saw it a couple of years ago. And it is. I think, I saw it because Lincoln Center was doing Ah, pre 1969 queer films. So that's where I saw it. And it is. It is fascinating. It is sort of a failure of a movie like It's not. It's clearly not Coke or an effort is best, but it is fascinating. And it does play into this sort of pepper nes cross gender so that that that she was, that she could go from being really feminine, terribly masculine on that she has a gruff ready and you get that to immediately after we meet Kate in The Aviator. So Es Tunis said that she looks at the camera instead of sees Howard, and immediately you're at the golf course and Kate's in control and she's wearing pants and you as a woman. And she knows she's speaking and she's holding your attention immediately. And one of the things that I was were you watching The Aviator? I read Hepburn's autobiography a couple years ago, and I was like, Oh, you should look back, See, Like how she describes me Howard, And it's almost word for word. What happens in the movie and then literally, just talking about. She has an entire chapter called Howard Hughes, she says. You know, he arrived in this plane, It wasn't on a beach, it was actually on the field. And she says, we met. And then immediately after we went, the next time I saw him, we were golfing. So it's like the beads from heparin biography or like beat for beat what the Aviators should've doing.

spk_0:   8:39
Well, you know, Scorsese always does his research.

spk_1:   8:42
Oh, yeah, and this is This feels like almost word for word, a sort of their meeting is right there,

spk_0:   8:48
and I love that scene. So the gulf scene. It's a scene where if you look at this performance, blanche it, Let's just call her Blanche because you know, there's a change. Yeah, so Blanket is doing this complete imitation Mimic Re, and she is doing it to the hilt. It's big. She's got devoid. She's got the mannerisms. She's got the body movement. And that's why that I think that scene it's so impactful you're either in with this performance or you're not because she's presented in the Gulf screen in this Gulf playing golf with Leo as Howard Hughes, and he doesn't even say that much. She is walking and talking, and playing golf doesn't even wait for him to respond to her. She's saying everything and you're just and she's going really big. And you, you either love it or you're just like, Oh, yeah, I can deal with this And obviously I loved it. But that's why it's it's so impactful. It's just so big from the beginning.

spk_1:   9:49
Yeah, and it's it's it's quite jarring and a like I I watched the Aviator like, but when he came out and I remember like, not really thinking about it much I remember Kate being Kate and said about being like, sort of the mini crew was there. But I hadn't thought about this movie in my own time. And then when I was watching it ahead of this because I'm so no well acquainted with both Hepburn and Blanchett seeing that scene, which is really like attacking you with the mimic rea, you feel so jarring. And I said it's sort of like a jump and she's saying, you know, I'm just gonna go for it in You're like you're saying like you're just either gonna come with me or you're gonna be left behind, which is what happens is doing to Hughes or just like I'm gonna talk. I'm gonna I'm gonna play. I'm gonna keep talking out You You are deaf, and I don't I don't understand why you're not acknowledging this, but I'm just gonna keep doing. She's like steam rolling him, and she steamrolls the film. And I think it's It's one of these, like, supporting performances that you can see why Oscar Borders like, got attached to it because it's kind of like you really want her on screen the entire time. But you also know that the power of performance lies and that it's so carefully doled out, and it jolts the film every time, every time she's in.

spk_0:   11:03
I mean, it's a C. I'm I'm not surprised at all that she won the Oscar because it's a series of set pieces where she is center for the first sort of half of the movie, or for like, an hour after she appears, or something like that. There's, I think, five or six scenes, and they're all about her. She is walking and talking and playing golf. Then she's in the Copacabana, sort of being irritated by Errol Flynn. Then she's in a plane, falling in love with Howard Hughes and flirting with him and saying, Golly, And then, you know she's taking care of him and talking to him about fame and then the break up. So these are all sort of like big set pieces. So and she is just the scenes are the movie is about Howard Hughes, but the scenes she's in our about Katherine

spk_1:   11:53
Hepburn. Yeah, anything like that. It's asking. Also the cinematography of Really, Like marks their scenes as different, like we're like that golf scene have to give very different coloration from the rest of film, and it sort of style Eyes is already. And so I think Mark's Blanchard's performance as very stylized that the film is going to sort of follow through with that and even that final sequence if they have together, they're not even in this room, but they're both lit like she's lit like a red light. And I think that there's always these moments where the film is really making you make conscious makes you aware of how different her performances within the film, but that like she is at the center, every one of those interactions.

spk_0:   12:34
And yeah, I'm glad you brought up the stylized in sort of the different colors. Could Scorsese has, you know, in reading trivia about this movie, I wouldn't have noticed that, except I read it, is that he change the color imposed in every time period that the movie takes place in based on the movies and Grady ation the color gradations of movies of that year of that era. So I guess in Kate Scene he was in Blanchard scene. He was doing the Hepburn movie called Reparations.

spk_1:   13:06
That's fascinating. And it's such a Marty think

spk_0:   13:09
Thio, such a billionaire

spk_1:   13:12
film historian in him is just always sort of like attacking you without I Just Love. Yeah, it's ah, it's a performance that again like I hadn't thought about it a long time in seeing it now and after seeing what Blanche it has done since. It does feel so revelatory, and it does feel like it was a zoo said, like tapping into something that she hadn't done before but that you've seen a lot since. I think there's, ah that there's something really risky, but also really fascinating and seeing her do this sort of like tightrope performance that it is a lot, a lot about mimic re. But the moments that I really appreciate it was, she shows, is Hepburn listening and paying attention like I love a lot of them are sort of duets like her and Howard Howard. But the Errol Flynn scene and then the amazing family dinner scene are all scenes that are about her. But it's about how she's paying attention to how other people are treating Howard and sort of immediately realizing that something is wrong and that she needs to get him out right. And there's such a care about what she's doing. And it's all in reaction shots where she doesn't have the voice to fall back on, and she doesn't have the mannerisms to go back up. But it's all in her face, and I think she does so much on it.

spk_0:   14:29
Yeah, and I'm glad you brought up the family dinner scene, which is the dinner where Howard Hughes goes to me. Temperance family on Let's just say friction arises. And I always thought that scene was about the comedy of Hepburn like, because I haven't seen the movie in a while. But when I saw it this time, to your point, Hepburn Blanchard doesn't talk that much in that scene. It's always the it's the other members of the family and Howard being very uncomfortable. And so it allows her to do, to your point something different. But also, I liked what she brought up in other scenes, like the scene where she talks to him about the folly of fame and how he needs to be careful that people don't find out what a weirdo he is. And in that scene, she sort of brings the fund ability of Hepburn, somebody who became famous very young and who has been dealing with it for a while. And I think that's was at the time because she makes the joke to Errol Flynn about how she's box office poison. So that was a time in her life where she was not sure of what was gonna happen with her career and even though the movie's not about do that at all. But I think just Blanchard brings that in the performance was Thea Press there, uh, some the calling. Everyone should be on the wires by now. What is it? Okay. I've been famous. Double better or worse for a long time Now, one day of you know what it really means. Yeah. I had my fair share of press on Hell's Angels. I'm used to it. Are you? How would we have? We're not like everyone else to me. Acute angles, too many eccentricities. I have to be very careful not do let people in or they'll make us into freaks. Okay? I can't get in here. Were saying 00 they can always get him.

spk_1:   17:06
It is fascinated to them. Think of sort of Pepper as head of this catalyst for something at Howard and Howard, also being as a catalyst for something in Hepburn there. There are moments when I I wish the movie. We just follow her because I am. And I'm fascinated that, like no one has ever sort of taking Hepburn up as a movie character because you hear her Spencer Tracy relationship seems right for the type of movie that would want to see. Yeah, and I wonder if it's like everyone is just so nervous about taking someone like heparin on that he could only do it in small doses of like if you actually created an entire movie around her, it would be sort of overwhelming.

spk_0:   17:46
I wanted to ask you so when I was reading reviews to sort of talk before talking to you. A lot of the reviews where acknowledge the mimic re button and applied the stylization of the performance. But they were not very like. I think of this performance is one of Blanche It's past, but they were not very positive beyond that. Like, for instance, Mental Argus Say's Miss Blanche, it sounds as if she's channeling one of Pepper's own overblown performances, which you know, downing them with faint praise. But I think and I think you agree from what you just said, that she goes beyond the mimic re and does find more shades to play.

spk_1:   18:26
Yeah, I know. And I think you know, Hepburn is the kind of character that you could only build from the outside in right, like you build her from like what she's wearing while you build her with, like trying to get sort of like the jaw. You build her with the voice you will hear with her hair, especially when the

spk_0:   18:42
movies like saying, saying all these things, Errol Flynn says Kate of the Log doll. And she goes, Ali, all these things are in the script.

spk_1:   18:50
Yeah, and sort of it. It's the only way to build it. But I think I think, Blanche. It goes 11 further in that. And I think this is why she may be. I'm sort of a tune into something that Scorsese was trying to do, which is like, She's giving us Hepburn. But she's also giving us the heparin we know, right and that this is a This is the kind of performance of like, as darkest. I was like It is a Hepburn performance, right? This is the only Hepburn we know. Heparin rarely gave us an access to sort of what she was in private. And I think with the Aviator and blend shit and Scorsese do is like, fine, we're not. We can't give you the private Hepburn, but we're gonna give you the Hepburn, you know, but put her in situations that are going to illuminate things about her. So, for example, that fame scene again because I went back to read the Howard Hughes chapter in tomography. It's all there, right? She says. I have it running from me, she says. Howard and I were indeed a strange pair. I don't think, What should I say? I think that reluctantly, he found me a very appropriate companion, and I think that I found an extremely appropriate to. He was sort of the top of the available men and I of the women. We were colorful pair. It seemed logical for us to be together, but it seems to me now that we were too similar. He came from the right street, so to speak, and so did I. We've been brought up in ease. We each had a wild desire to be famous. I think that this was a dominant character. Failing People who want to be famous are really lonelier loners, or they should be so giving a sort of a character of Hepburn. But then wrapping her in scenes where she gets to grapple with fame gets grapple with what kind of man she wants to be around, what kind of man her family wants her to be around instead of having Spencer Tracy's that hovering off off the screen. I think it was the only way to make that performance were because it becomes that also like an ode to Hepburn and to the heparin ISMs that so many of us love.

spk_0:   20:42
Yeah, and you know, Kate was very aware of that. Blanche it here. I mean, So I have this quote that she gifted New York Times at the time where she says representing Kate in the same medium film in which existed was very daunting, but because she was so private and few people really knew her, we basically know happens through her films. So of course you have to give a nod to her screen persona when playing her. And this sort of brings me to I think of this as one of Cates riskiest performance just because in what she's saying in this quote, she is portraying Katherine Hepburn, an icon of the medium of film NFL. So in the same medium, it's not like, you know, playing Abraham Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln then have hundreds of movies where you can see him at any time. So I think this is where the risk is, and it's sort of I guess I'm a little upset that people don't acknowledge what a risk. This performance is it's because it's in a movie directed by one off the best directors ever. People don't think of it as a risky performance, but I think that that combination of taking on Kate in a movie presents a very big risk.

spk_1:   21:59
It does. And it, although I think taking a risk with Scorsese must have felt sort of comforting. I really said that this seems like the movie would sort of buffer. Ah ah, little bit of the risk And here's where, like I think she's been taking those sorts of risk since I think that that the performance that this should be thought of in in comparison to our and it's usually something like me I'm not here, I'm not there. Yeah, right. Which is sort of like a similar type of like I'm gonna take the psychotic person and then I'm gonna do it. And like she's supposed to be doing Lucille Ball and a movie soon for Sorkin. And I think like there, Kate's not someone, Blanche. It is not someone that I think of in terms of like, oh, she nails mimic re or like that. She's known for me because she was. She was never the Merrill. She was never a Merrill, but she still has. Has managed to, I think, Explorer, what it means to use mimicry and what it means to inhabit another person in order to get a sort of like a deeper thing. And I think a lot of it has to do with her voice one of things that I really appreciate it while watching The Aviator this time is like it's so uncanny, the way she uses her voice. But then they just made me think of like, Oh, she does isn't every movie here is just being used for something else for like, I think of like, you know, the quivering and blue jasmine or the breath Penis and notes on a scandal or the ethereal Ness and Lord of the Rings, like she is someone who really knows how to use the way. So it so then it would make sense that she would take on Pepper, who was again. It's so great what really she had such a signature voice and who didn't really change it from from movie to movie, right, like she would make a stink. It is distinctive I'm sure you know Errol,

spk_0:   23:45
right? Mr Flynn? Yes. Hey, Kate of the clenched George head Burns and chanting, As always, you should use

spk_1:   23:52
locks on your hands. By the way, I do hate it. Sweetie, you and Howard ought to cook up a picture co

spk_0:   23:57
star with, I think. No, I don't read riding, Mr Mayer. I'm box office poison. I'm on the outs, skids the doldrums, washed up day old fish, not worth the evening. Tell me.

spk_1:   24:13
Tell them I did one of things that I I loved and watching The Aviator. This time it's like it made me appreciate that final sequence better because at first, as I was watching it, I was like, OK, Blanche, it's not as great as doing screwball. But then I realized that she doesn't need to be doing screwball even if the movie and the pacing and the rhythm seems to be asking for you to screw ball in the golf course of men of the family and then with Eros Land. She's so good in that final moment when it's just her voice that Howard can hear in a sort of like a tone down register. And she's really not not performing because I think the other thing to talk about in The Aviator and that Howard Hughes is the Leo's Howard Hughes calls out, is that he believes that Koeppen is always acting. Yeah, so it's already embedded in the performance that there would be a level of performative ity in the level of like coaching something out of others in the way that she into rocks with them. And so I think that answers for, like, a second layer to Why, taking on Hepburn and taking under her mannerisms and taking on her memory, Chri actually serves the character and serves the way the movie is thinking about the character.

spk_0:   25:21
Yeah, that leads me to one of my favorite Cate Blanchett line readings ever, which is where she says, I'm not acting, acting. Uh, I love it so much that I put it in the intro for every episode. So you have to hear it every week. And I wanted to go back just a little bit to talk about risk. Um, I sort of appreciate your pointing, saying that this was the beginning of her taking more risk because I think I agree with that. I think that's true. But I also just want, in general, to sort of just talk about what constitutes risk and screen acting like, I think people think of it sometimes a subject matter artistic merit or sort of when you're a collaborator, for instance, who is more avant garde and and the opposite of a big movie which, obviously Scorsese and Fincher and a lot of the directors that Kate worked was at this stage of her career. We're not, which is, I think, why she was never thought off as a risk taker as a screen actress lady, Where do you stand on that? What do you think is what do you think is risk in acting

spk_1:   26:29
risk and acting? Well, it's well for this. I was also doing Ah, celebrity research in one of the one of the injuries that I love. That blanche. It gave its work conversation with Ian McKellen. They did a sort of an actor's on actors a couple of years ago for Mr Holmes and Carol, and I just love it because the two of them get along so well. But they talk a little bit about how she's always scared of taking on projects, and I was a and that just made me. It's just wild for me to think that Blanchard would be scared of taking on anything, because I'm just like you could do anything Kate like, What are you talking about? But she's like, But when Fincher calls you or when Scorsese calls you and says, Do you want to do this? She was like, uh, I mean, I can't see. No. So it's fascinating to think that for her, maybe like every performances or risk, regardless of what today's but to take on a take on a broader. I think for me when I think of risky performances are stylized performances, especially in the 21st century. Because I think we've been so coddled by realistic or natural list today performances that we know what they look like. We know how they're built. We know, like method, right. There's a sense of like, Oh, I understand that this is how people live and move in the world. So the performances that I would think a cz risky, and I think this is why Hepburn in The Aviator sort of falls under that Is that it there? The performances that jolt you and make you realize like, Oh, this there is no one way of acting and their various different ways. And I think that's the fact that also Blanchard is so tied to the theater, and that has such a Peter sort of aspect to her career into the way she approaches performance. I think she sometimes brings that in, and that it's always a little bit stylized in a way that demands your attention or in a way that really puts her character in quotation marks but then still demands you feel alongside with her. And I think there's the risk because I think in stylized performances there's a way in which that can sometimes very easily fail if the movie isn't built around you or isn't really at the same tone. But when it works, I think the pay office so much is so much greater.

spk_0:   28:40
Yeah, and I think that she, when she does what you were saying, remind me of sort of like what she done, what she did in Blue Jasmine, which he did, and Carol Ridge Blue Jasmine is not stylized as much, but it's sort of going to the edge of risking it all. I don't I can't think of a performance where she was giving something that Waas just too subtle or two. I can't I'm searching for the word. But like, you know, we recently did an episode on the gift, and I think I don't know if you still that movie That was one of the movies where it was just like the movie didn't work. But I kept wanting her to go bigger and bigger. And maybe that's just because I love that. And that's what I love from her.

spk_1:   29:22
I mean, that that you were talking about like one of her favorite lines is I'm not acting but like the It's not even my fame. My favorite Bland should line the line that always comes to minus her Elizabeth Golden Age. I am the Winds and I I hold a hurricane in me, and it's such a ridiculous moments, like in the film inside the filming, the trailer like thought but it. But she sells it and it's and it's because she goes big and it's because, she says, you know, I I'm the queen and the screen will be able to contain or not be able to contain this power that I have. So I ll I love when she goes back. And I love when she goes so bonkers.

spk_0:   30:01
Yeah, me too. So this brings us to Sort of, like, who? Since we're talking about Blanche playing Halpern, let's look a little bit about who we think is Kate, sort of classic mirror actress, because I think of her somebody who would have been grade in those amazing movies in the late thirties and forties of Hepburn and Bette Davis. And I've always in my mind sought of K, even though she is much more glamorous than Bette Davis. I always sort of for somebody who was playing in the Bette Davis Register like, I think young 20 something Kate would have done an amazing job in Jezebel or of human bondage. Who do you think of? Is it happen for you with Kate?

spk_1:   30:42
I think, I think, laid Hepburn, if closer to what Blanche is right, that these sort of because even as we're talking about the voice and the physicality, there's an intellectual level, two blanches performances, which I associate with Hepburn, and that she it's not that she overthought things but like that she was a very smart person and that that she brought in intelligence to her characters and in the way she played them and in the way she should've been bute them. And I think I also think about that with Blanche it which is why initially, notes on a scandal. I always thought like, Oh, she's still miscast like there's no way you could lead me to believe that someone like Blanche It would be so easily sway or like he's so not, you know, not smart. It's right And I was like, Blanche, it's like super smart and Blanchard it like, Why would you? Why would she be cowed by anyone? So I think that level of intellectual acuity that I associate with Hepburn is there also in Blanche it off another. When you bring up Davis, I think it's Ah, it's a perfect example. I think like Blue Jasmine is something this thing very easily could fall under like this. Like women's melodrama. We instill and that's that's sort of Davis, although I think she is much too glamorous and much too beautiful. I mean, Davis was stunning, but in those sort of like a very different way in a counterintuitive way. Where's Blanche? Is there, like drop dead, sort of beautiful by any standards that we could think of.

spk_0:   32:05
And Davis also played a lot of non glamorous women

spk_1:   32:08
rights, not not so much Blanche. And I feel like sometimes she did like I I wish she I think that's why I have are a hard time Like I love the glamour, but I always sometimes, and I want you think of like, oh, what would a gritty Blanchett performance look like? I

spk_0:   32:29
think the greedy ISS that she came close to Stool is Blue Jasmine, and even then she was in New York society maven.

spk_1:   32:35
I know it. Let me think of the most hideous thing. And it was like, Oh, this socialite who's to run all the time?

spk_0:   32:43
Her playing Jude Quinn and I'm not there makes me think, Um, and a little bit in Carol's going Carol, she was very fam, but that performance also made me think of Marlena Dietrich. She sort of have that glamour slash and garage anything which I think you Seymour of that in her red carpet than hear her screen persona. But I think that's something Besides, I'm not there. That's something that maybe I would love to see more off with.

spk_1:   33:09
And she played with it. A little bit of oceans. They write this its again. Another sort of like lipstick. Butch, I'm gonna play in about quid gender. Yeah, she doesn't really do that much. Hello again, Hepburn. Is it sort of along those lines so that she does them for just both of the the beautiful, beautiful gowns, The count's the beautiful gallons that she wears.

spk_0:   33:31
But I think heparin is also kind of like Kate in that she's like that mawr in her sort of off screen persona. Yeah, um, onscreen. She hasn't really put it, but But now that blanches in her fifties, I'm really looking forward to sort of late sixties heparin like give me something like the lion in winter blanket. Let's do the hat. Yeah, I can't wait. So let's look a little bit about I think we talked about most of the scenes that Blanche it has, But is there a scene that you like that we haven't talked about?

spk_1:   34:05
The plane seen is great. So Okay, we've talked about her scenes, but I feel like we haven't talked about the scenes in relationship to the movie. And, you know, I started off like The Aviator's. Not my kind of my favorite movie. I don't know. It's a great movie.

spk_0:   34:20
It's not anything. What Top Scorsese movie? Oh my God, I love score, C

spk_1:   34:24
e. I mean, he's so good. I think. One thing one of the reasons why the pepper in performance really pops is because those scenes seem to be getting at something that the movie itself never quite delivers elsewhere. Which is like, This is an examination of a man, you know how How does power sort of like a warped his mind, but also how this sort of, like sense of cleanliness, right, that there's always like issues about Howard. Here's and intimacy and controlling. And they're all, I think, very, perfectly sketched out in the Hepburn Hughes scenes, and they should have disappear everywhere else. Yeah, like him either. The see, the movie really plays like this happened, and then this happened. And then this happened. And everything is sort of like tied together like his love of aviation. Great. But I think the Hepburn Hugh scenes, because there's this talk of fame because there's talk of intimacy because there's this talk of control and it's so mapped onto this, like very unlikely couple. And I think the movie doesn't quite really get me to understand what it is that made them such an interesting point like I don't understand. I still, after having watched it was like I don't know if the movie has convinced me.

spk_0:   35:38
I mean, it doesn't give us anything beyond that they are two weirdos, right? Because she says that line, you, you're deaf and I sweat,

spk_1:   35:46
Yeah, then you're like, OK, so is that. And I sometimes which the movie like prodded a little bit more in that direction, cause I think that's where the the interesting friction of Hughes as character is. That was clearly not what Marty was interested in. It's not clearly what the movie is interested in, but I think it is what makes their their their scenes together. Pop Andi think the the airplane scene, I think, is the closest that it gets me to sort of understanding like Oh yeah, we're a bunch of weirdos and you know, we both that sort of that sense of adventure and we both have a sense of, like, unconventionality. Um and you say golly, and I've never heard anyone else who uses the word golly. So of course I love you.

spk_0:   36:26
Yeah, I mean, I think he falls in love with her because she plays at his level, right? She's not afraid to just leave. Whatever nightclub Berlin was Errol Flynn. Get on a plane, learn how to fly a plane and fly it in the same night. So she is. She's really playing at his level. And maybe there is the younger scarlet starlet that he meets, who I don't think ever plays at his level. There is a later scene where it's sort of you see that contrast where she can't even put two words together. And it's funny because in real life I don't think their relationship lasted all that time. I mean, the movie implies from Sylvia Scarlett, the woman of the Year, which is about 56 years, and I don't know, but just from what? I don't know that much about how Hughes, but just from what I read, he has, you know, dated almost every movie star in that time. Ah, there's a rather alarming mountain heading our way. Pull back on the wheel a smidge. Go on.

spk_1:   37:41
Yeah, and I think the other thing. And this is the other reason why I don't particularly care for the video. It's because I think Leo is miscast. I think he was much too young. He looks like a bullet off. I and I kept like looking at my notes, and I was like, How old is he supposed to be here and write, like towards the end of the movie is like in this forties. And you're like Leo, No, you just look like a child like a child and like with a hat on a mustache

spk_0:   38:07
would have played it well now because he has fouled up.

spk_1:   38:10
Yes, and And I think also he's like, gotten better as an actor, and I think that I think it was just much too young. But I think one of things that that does is that the thing you don't really or that I don't really buy while watching it is like why all these women were drawn to him. Yeah, like I'm drawn to Leo, but I don't think I'm drawn to Hughes, and I think that's a problem. I think that becomes a problem when he's acting opposite people who, like, really don't bring it or don't really call this one. Thinking of the scenes with Kate Beckinsale as Ava Gardner that I that I think are just carpet I because there are many ways

spk_0:   38:51
it is such a great opportunity. Beckinsale and she's good. She's been good before and more on after.

spk_1:   38:57
I mean, she's amazing 11 Friendship a bit that. But I think the difference. And I think it's a good comparison to Blanchard. Blanchard clearly has a thesis and an idea about Hepburn, both in relations yourself, but also in relation to Hughes. So she's able to play that, and I think in Beckinsale any minute. Some, like wants to finding her like Blink and you'll miss it. Roll like there's no there's no sense of who this woman waas at the person outside of her screen performances. And so there's there's no there's no gravity to win their own screen. So then all you get is like Howard Hughes, just like screaming or Howard was like wanting to control, and then you just never There's not an equal weight to that relationship to get me to buy it.

spk_0:   39:39
I mean, Beckinsale is you need when you're playing a glamorous movie star, which most her and Blanchard play. You need to hone and perfect the pose, and they both do it. But I think Beckinsale does nothing more than just perfect the pose and maybe play a little bit with the voice, which also sort of brings me to like after they break up and she liked runs away with Spencer Tracy. And you know I'm not partial or I can't be impartial. So I just feel like the movie lost its energy completely, and I finished it. Even so this time I was watching it just to talk to you about Gay Blanche and I still finish the movie, but I just kept like it was more than an hour and I kept just stopping Netflix and looking at how much is left. I can't believe the reason I were in 27 minutes.

spk_1:   40:28
So much movie laughed and it is, and I I mean, I have had the same experience and and it's just like I don't I don't get it like I don't as a character portrait. I think it's too long as a relationship drama. I think it's like I never I never understood what the movie was trying to tell me about Howard Hughes and other than like, Oh, he was so eccentric and changed to industries because of his ambition, right? And I think that's how deaf, like, sort of like, does it on the That's all over the synapses like he changed aviation and the motion picture industry because of his like giant ambition. But not. But then again, I'm also definitely allergic to great well, the great Men stories where there's no discernible female lead. So already I was gonna be bored. And Alan all is fantastic. Performance can't really save a lot his soak like it is just amazing. And it's and I think it's because it was like an effortless to his performance that I think it's also what rubs me the wrong way about Leo and Ike and Leo. You really see the gears like turning, and you really see him like wanting to do things and, you know, I need to act like this here and then to act like that there. Where is all that? It's just like it's be so embodies the character on you. So, like makes you at home and you believe this is a real person. The other movies, they're like, lose a stain once once Kate disappears. Yes, it would appear. I guess

spk_0:   41:56
I already I'm on record. That I'm not acting is my favorite line reading in this movie. And Blanche, it has so many amazing line readings. Is there one that you particularly like or prefer?

spk_1:   42:08
I I love the Howard. There's a rather alarming mountain coming way. Is it because it's also like such a perfect Hepburn line? Because it's like, deadpan And there's like you can that could have been like in a carrot grand fella by could have been a sponsor. Treat like it's just It's so perfect

spk_0:   42:25
and she does it so well. It's just perfect. She, like, breaks in the middle before she says Mountain, as if she's thinking about how to say it. Sze perfect. Yeah, I always like to talk about Kate, the costumes that she wears and this is, you know, our beloved custom designer. I think everybody I know loves her, including human, while I'm putting words into your

spk_1:   42:47
shed. Yes,

spk_0:   42:48
Sandy Powell. This was the first time she cost him Kate. And then she did again for Carol and Cinderella. But I think the green gown where Howard takes Hepburn to a movie premiere and then she works the room was L. B Mayer. That is such it's such a Kate with shoulder. It's very forties with shoulders, the color with the red hair, the green is just it pops. But it's also such a glamorous Blanchett moment. And she looked so fine. That's that's reading my favorite. And I think also what The gold in the cook at the club they go and meet Errol Flynn in is also a great one,

spk_1:   43:25
played by the beautiful Jude Law. Yes, I actually love her golfing outfit, and I think it's because I love the heparin that I'd love is a sort of like no nonsense, like I'm gonna wear pants. Um uh, just such a way like it's a productive way of thinking about Hepburn, but I do that that sense of androgyny and her fashion was so obviously telegraphing so many more things about how she thought about her life, how she thought about herself. And I think e think this is what something that Powell does so well is that the costumes are always telling you something about the character. And I think that the Blazer and the cut of the pants and the way in which, like, Blanche, it is really comfortable moving around in that as she's talking and actually sort of like monologue ing and hitting the ball and just lobbying every kind of punch line our way. I think it's a great moment of, like a costume that he wouldn't immediately think. It's sort of flashy, but I think it's so character focused and informative. I just thought that

spk_0:   44:26
yeah, yeah, I love a little The costume through through is everything in golf. Just like, Why don't you find Saw your Scarface picture? Violent, Realistic movies are movies. Howard Not life on the stage stage. Israel Riel, Flesh and blood human beings right out there in front of you. Buster, not look away. Got much popcorn? That will be a room. Do you like the thing at her? No. Morning. Alive on stage. I'll teach you. We'll see some Ibsen if the Republicans haven't outlawed him by now, huh? You're not a Republican, are you? Couldn't abide that 32 did you must still sacred franchise. So we can't talk about The Aviator and Cate Blanchett and not talk about the Oscars. So this was her second nomination and the first time she wants. So it's an amazing sort of Touchstone in her career. And I remember at that time I've loved Kate since Elizabeth. So in 2004 I was six years into my lifelong love affair with her, and I was hoping against hope that she would win. But also, everybody kept telling me they prefer Virginia Madsen, and I kept it to myself. But for all my friends back then, in 2000 4 year old crazy I was so happy she won. And even though I know a lot of people preferred Virginia Mats and are now a Portman, and I think a lot of that comes to the fact that people just did not appreciate that she went beyond mimicry. But I think now we can go back and say she did.

spk_1:   46:02
Yeah, well, you know me. So you know who I was rooting for back then? She had won the globe, so I was very excited. I was like, Oh, slick it's gonna be a non Jew. New win a lost It did not happen in my dear. Now we have to wait another couple of years before she was up there. But yeah, thinking about it now. I think he makes a lot of sense that she won both in terms of like Who Blanchard Waas as an actress and industry fitted. It's such a part that's has, like, Oscar original over it like you have the mimic re. But he also had this iconic of sort of presence on. You can see a lot of academy members being like Oh my God, I remember it was It's a cz much about honoring Kate Hepburn as it is about honoring and Kate Bland said,

spk_0:   46:53
and can't happen Diet. But just as they were about to start shooting, so by the time the ceremony came, she might have been dead for a little over a year. So still in people's consciousness,

spk_1:   47:05
Yeah, and I think that you know, as much as we like to say that you are arguing that here there's a level of performance that goes beyond memory. Chri I think the Oscars have proven time and time again that actually mimic create. It's the lowest bar that people want to report things we need only look at last year's best doctor performance or our potential best actress performance this year. I will not talk about because I think it's also it's another instance of like an iconic up screen presence being sort of invoked and they think, modeling people's sort of understanding of the performance.

spk_0:   47:43
People can't resist it like, I think people in the into people in general but also people in the academy existed when you throw entertainer in their phase kicking

spk_1:   47:53
out and who's again, who's like, so iconic that you're like Oh, yes, I can I can write It's a Cape Blanche. It is Kate Hepburn, and you're like, Yes, I forgot that I was watching Cate Blanchett. I thought that I was watching Kate Hepburn, and you're like, You know, actually, what I love about the performances like she never lets you forget that this is a performance, and I think that's that This is the kind of risk that we're talking about. It's like there's a mimic re, but there's also like a remove and that she's pointing to sort of how constructed. This Hepburn is both in the film, but also for Hughes, but also for us as audience members. Yeah, that's what I remember. And that's not what Oscar voters were thinking. I think Oscar voters just like, Oh Hepburn, yeah, I love I

spk_0:   48:36
can't give her 1/5 Oscar, but I'll give Blanche it her first.

spk_1:   48:39
I couldn't give Garland one, so I'll give.

spk_0:   48:45
Well, we'll see. We'll see everyday Zellweger gets all the way to an actual Oscar Was Judy. Before we go back to sort of like talking about Kate in general, I have some questions for you. I want to ask you, as somebody who loves Catherine happ er and to sort of talk a little bit about her screen persona and sort of something that we haven't touched on that you think is in her screen persona and maybe a couple of performances that you really enjoy, and one people, too. Look into

spk_1:   49:13
I was. I was thinking about this tonight. I wonder, Do people talk about Hepburn anymore? I feel like, yeah, or that when they talk about her, it's sort of just about her, like Oscar wins ride like that. We know you know Hepburn won four and Merrill has three. And so this is the only way we think about her recently. And I think it does such a disservice to a career that was really so influential to generations of movie lovers. Two generations of actors, just

spk_0:   49:42
It's so long She was at the top for so long.

spk_1:   49:46
Oh, my God, yes. And read that that she had something like incarnations, right? Like there was, like, screwball Kate and like this, or like ingenue K, and that she was able to then do the Tracy Hepburn films. Um, that she was able to do this and then like then still, she would win her two Oscars. Like when she was, you know, in her later years And that they're so I mean on Golden Pond in line in the winter are, like, so beautiful. And I think there is. I think there's when I do think about heparin. When I think about happening and contemporary conversations, I think a lot of it usually boils down to our is reduced to like, Well, she always did helper right, like Oh, you know, Pepper was always playing sort of herself, but I think that does a disservice to the kinds of performances that she did.

spk_0:   50:31
She just had a distinctive screen persona and a voice not is just I can just hear it now, Yeah, in my head.

spk_1:   50:38
Yeah, and but I think it's also because she makes it feel so effortless, and I think that's also what I loved. So if we're talking about, like, you know, go to Hepburn movies, you should watch. I will not be the last. The 1st 2 last words to say like Bringing a Baby is brilliant despite being horribly, you know, criticize and at the time, and it was a bomb and she was his poison, one of my favorite helper performances. It's suddenly last summer, and it's first of all, that movie is insane on so many different levels. Um,

spk_0:   51:12
it's the craziest story ever.

spk_1:   51:14
It's a crazy story ever, and it's and it's again, sort of like we're talking about. Blanche is like Hepburn had a way of being sort of a no nonsense performer who had such an attention to tone so that she really makes this sort of like monstrous woman so alluring and so seductive while still being Hepburn and I think this is This is what fascinates me about her, her screen presence, that she was always obviously herself. But she channeled it. And I think that's something that we take for granted here, or that we tend to downplay in the 21st century was like, What? Oh, when they're just playing themselves Yeah, there's there's the sense of like they're not theirs, not work involved.

spk_0:   51:55
And I don't think any actor ever plays themselves and lives there. I know Jerry Seinfeld maybe

spk_1:   52:00
is actually a bit, but I think that this sort of like movie star performance, I think has been it has been so trashed, and I think just because there's no effort involved or just because you think they're playing themselves or a version of themselves, I think when people do it grates. And I think when people know how to channel that and if Pink Heparin was was one of the Masters and doing that, anything, that's one of the reasons she hated someone like Meryl. I like it because Carol it was sort of the opposite, like Merrill was about with this chameleon and for help. She was like, I don't understand that on, but it's a school of acting, and I think this is the school of acting that Hepburn sort of belongs to has been sort of fading. And I wish we would sort of bring it back and sort of so to look at something like bringing a baby looking at some of the extent of last summer, looking at some of the lifeline the winter. I don't think you can look at those three performances and say, Oh, Hepburn was just tougher.

spk_0:   52:55
Yeah, she has range just in within those three. Yes, absolutely. She has the range. She have

spk_1:   53:00
the right.

spk_0:   53:01
Is there any young, younger actress working today who reminds you of heparin?

spk_1:   53:06
I don't think so. I mean, I think bland shit with the window would immediately have come to mind a couple of years ago. But if we're thinking sort of younger, uh, I don't know, but I think it's also because the types of films that happened a ride, these X screwball comedies that made her start, they don't make them anymore, right? So that's sort of charm. I mean, I think of someone like Anna Kendrick, I think, her comedic stylings. I think it's sort of the closest that we get to someone like bringing a baby's Kate.

spk_0:   53:38
I mean, I I would say Emma Stone, but I don't think of her as Hepburn, but more Shirley Maclaine. But it somebody who would have thrived so well in screwball comedies.

spk_1:   53:49
Yeah. I mean, those eyes alone.

spk_0:   53:52
Yeah. So let me ask you some few questions about Kate. Do you think Kate has ever been underrated? Is there a performance you think that people don't give it, Did you? That she is? And you know, this is always a tough question, because she is somebody who is so rightly rated like she is rated so highly. I

spk_1:   54:09
mean, I think notes in the scandal is an underrated performance. But I think also the time between Elizabeth and the Aviator was probably the closest you can get to when Kate, as an actress within the industry and within critical circles, was underrated. And then, like, you seem to be doing work. But she wasn't really like breaking through. And I don't think in 2002 if you'd ask someone who's one of the best working actors of our generation, I don't think people would have said. Blanche it then, But I wouldn't know. Yeah, there's no way of been going back and being like, No, she was one of the best.

spk_0:   54:43
I have done a couple of movies that she has done in that period between Elizabeth and the Aviator, which is a period that people, I think, say that she's She was lost a little bit, but I think she was just trying to do different things. You know, she did movies like The Man Who Cried and Worked and did A Western was Ron Howard. You know, she was trying to do different things, and I think she was also trying to get as far away from Elizabeth as she can and doing all these things that if you look at them, the one thing that's in common between all of these movies are they are Untie Elizabeth, Pushing Tin and all these movies that nobody remembers today or you know, your favorite bad bets. Nobody remembers them, but they are all anti Elizabeth, and I think maybe finally after you know she's been on many sets and really became an amazing screen actor than she was able to post aviator to get to where she she is now as one of the most respected screen actors. What is Who is your favorite Kate scene partner?

spk_1:   55:48
So one of things that I love and that I was trying to figure out as an answer to his questions that I think I love Kate best when she's playing off women. Yes, and I don't think she does not enough. But I think when it when she does, it's sort of like the fireworks. So for me, the her two best scene partners are Rooney in Carol, obviously, and then also Judi Dench. Yes, and I have notes on a scandal every time the two of them are together and especially that final sort of like altercation when she's like, smeared makeup and she's, you know, insane and they're yelling. It's so they bring something out in her that I think men don't and I think she and something like The Aviator and like Lord of the Rings like she does tend to be like this old woman on side, which many of many actresses of our generation like have been saddled with for decades now. So I think like when she gets to play off women, and I think like even the moments, the better moments and oceans aid when she's just with Sandra Bullock like, there's an energy there that I think she she thrives in. And I think you you and I both think you're on stage. And I think there's a crackling energy that she has with actresses that I really appreciate him that I I I wish he did more.

spk_0:   57:06
Yeah, I'm me too. I want her and Dame Judi to do something together again. Yes, I agree with you. They crackling fire in notes on a scandal They play of each other so well and dame duties So sublime was so amazing in that. In that I think I would only say the only person who was in a movie was Blanchard who was better in the movie then. Blanche. It is Dame Judi Dench.

spk_1:   57:33
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

spk_0:   57:35
I think all the other actress she's always one of them. Who would you like to see her work with? And this could be somebody she's worked was over. She hasn't.

spk_1:   57:45
Yeah, I will, as I was trying to think about. Okay. So which female actresses, what I want like female actually female actors. Would I be pairing her way to see what kind of crackling thing I keep coming back to Meryl and for me to be less about what Blanche it would be doing and more about, Like, what Blanche we would bring out in Merrill? Yeah, because I think you know, the I think the best screen pairings are all about like what they bring out on one another. And I think some Merrill as amazing as she can be. I think sometimes she's let down by the people around her, both directors, but also her screen partners. And I think pairing her with someone as smart and as attentive, but also as instinctive as Blanchard might deliver something interesting that I that I'm here that I've been yearning for. Uh, you know,

spk_0:   58:44
Yes, I want to see that, too,

spk_1:   58:46
because I kept thinking of like what Kidman and Street did in Big Little Lies. And I think that there was something there and the internal rupture was sort of involved that I would love to see that happen with It's what Someone like Blanchett.

spk_0:   58:58
Yes, maybe they can play, you know, really people. So I don't know who I can think of of whom, but because they are both famous for playing doing these sort of incarnations, so do it. I don't know who but get it done. Street and Blanche it so beyond The Aviator with your favorite line delivery of Cates.

spk_1:   59:18
So the one that I used the most actually in my everyday life is I like the hat from Carol, which is such a throwaway line. But I just There's something so beautiful and it's such a small moment. But I every whenever someone is wearing hot and I like it. I just go like the house,

spk_0:   59:37
Yeah, but it's also locate the start of a grand love affair, right? It's a beautiful line.

spk_1:   59:42
I mean, my other one is Who do you have to sleep with around here to get a Stoli martini with a twist of lemon? You can just lions that just like I can use on an everyday basis. Her delivery is just I can hear it in my head.

spk_0:   59:57
And sometimes for me, I wonder because, like something like Blue Jasmine or something like, um, Carol and even the Aviator, there are so many amazing lines, and you're like did the script where these grapes just about lines? Or is this about Blanche? It's delivery, and I think it's probably a combination of both. Yeah, so is there something in the cultural perception of Katie You like, um or annoyed by? I don't

spk_1:   1:0:25
know if there's anything that I'm in. I'm annoyed, but I do. I do sometimes wish there was less of, ah, demarcation between Kate on screen and Kate off screen. What

spk_0:   1:0:36
do you mean?

spk_1:   1:0:37
I what we're talking about like that This sort of like glamour, beauty, sort of Aloofness, that sort of like she's like a goddess. But then when you get her talking like when you watch interviews or when you sing on stage, there's sort of this like earth Penis to her and that it's clearly she either doesn't bring it to the screen or doesn't get offered parts that would get her to play that more. But I wish

spk_0:   1:1:03
I can see what you're saying. Like you know, she she does not lean into earthy all that much in heaven so she can be. And I think also a part of that is that she is so glamorous and she does sort of quote unquote performed the red carpet. I think she takes that on another part. She's like, All right, I'm playing movie star tonight and that's completely not who she is because there is a vast difference your point between when you see her just sort of gliding down the red carpet or in an interview, especially with someone that she likes. Like if you fear interview is other other people. She likes other actors. For instance, the Ocean's a pressed,

spk_1:   1:1:42
So that's so It's not so much about her perception, but like it seems like a missed opportunity. And I think this is why when I first R, I first saw her on stage doing Uncle Vanya, and it was such a revelation to me because she was so loose and I don't think I don't think of her as a loose actress to me. She's always like, very contained and very, very specific and very intentional ways, but on stage and then the maids, too. She was like there's a gangrenous and there was a little like a looseness to her that's electrifying of it, so alluring, and I think that's why blue Jasmine sort of stands out it's because you sort of get that a little bit and you're sort of like, see her coming off or loosening up. And I don't know who would be able to get that from her own school. Like what kind of part that would Oscar to do

spk_0:   1:2:29
I have. My answer, especially these days, is special, and motive are for everything

spk_1:   1:2:34
as it should be. A yes, I walk it thinking like female filmmakers might be able to coax that cause, as I was looking at her like, Oh, who? She's working with her. She would also she has a very like male. I think she's only I think Jillian Armstrong is the only female

spk_0:   1:2:49
about the man who cried was directed by and I'm forgetting now. But

spk_1:   1:2:55
hi, Sally Potter.

spk_0:   1:2:56
Sally Potter. Yes, but I think those were yeah, she mostly works with male directors, and she like adding another big male director Next, which is Guillermo del Toro. So,

spk_1:   1:3:07
uh, maybe because I give me like, you know, what would marry? Oh, Heller, Do it, Blanchard, What would injure Arnold you with Blanchet or someone like um Oh my God, who did the dressmaker?

spk_0:   1:3:22
And? And she's Australian Yeah. Y'all sling Morehouse,

spk_1:   1:3:26
Justin Moorhouse, Like someone like, because I I, Kate and that the other kid that we haven't talked about his wind slit. The eight and Kate are also like, in my mind twins. I don't know. They're not even the same age has been in my mind there. So maybe you would

spk_0:   1:3:39
be in the same time.

spk_1:   1:3:42
Yeah. And to me, it was like Were you a wins later? We're Blanche it. And the longest time I was a wind split, but she's been letting me down lately, so I really can't be in good faith when flip down. But I get to give the dressmaker performance of the Winslet was like someone records. Winslet is also somewhere like has that sort of earthy nous, but doesn't really channel it that often. But I found it with Qatar. She does

spk_0:   1:4:06
channeled it more than blanche it, That's for sure. Yeah. Before we go, is there anything else you want to say about bland shed or about Hepburn or the Aviator? I

spk_1:   1:4:16
think I think I said I think I've said everything. You should watch the heparin scenes. I think someone must have really done a supercut somewhere on you, Jeepers. Like just the heparin scenes.

spk_0:   1:4:29
And they are all amazing. Like you can go down. Just watch one after the other. And that's all you need from the Aviator. Thank you so much, man. Well, this was a joy. Thank you for coming on Sundays. We skate. And why don't you let our listeners know where they can find your work?

spk_1:   1:4:45
Probably the easiest way of finding my work is on Twitter. So you can follow me at Be Manuel. That's where usually I'm talking about Winslow. Did Blanchard and Street and all these other amazing women. And then if you go to my website m betancourt dot com, you can see where else I've written and where you can order my upcoming Judy Garland book that comes out in May next year.

spk_0:   1:5:08
Yeah, that's exciting. Looking forward to that. And you can find me online at on Twitter at EMI, Underscore says, and follow the podcast at Sunday's escape or on Sundays. And until next time. Thank you for listening