Cate Blanchett as Bob Dylan in "I'm Not There"

spk_0:   0:00
What do you do on Sunday? Way talked about Cate Blanchett, The actors, costumes, the awards, but mostly Blanchard of it all. I'm not acting. Thing is a Erica. This is Sunday's escaped and I'm your host for Todd. Hello and welcome to a new episode of Sunday's escaped. This is your host more Todd, I'll flop, and I am with my guest for this. I'm not there. Episode Chris File

spk_1:   0:42
Hi, I am here. However, I'm so excited I'm not there.

spk_0:   0:50
I'm excited to have you, Chris. So,

spk_1:   0:54
so excited to be here. I'm so happy that you asked me.

spk_0:   0:58
Well, of course you're top of my list. You were right behind cape.

spk_1:   1:03
Ah. Um, you know what? I think that's probably the greatest compliment I've ever had in my life to be second in line to Cate Blanchett. So I will take that and run with it.

spk_0:   1:13
So before we start talking about I'm not there, can you tell our listeners about you and what you do? I'll let you tell them what you want to tell them.

spk_1:   1:23
Oh, hi, guys. I'm Chris File. I'm a writer and I'm a podcaster Mortada and I both right. Um, at the film experience. Um, I also co host this had Oscar buzz. It's a podcast with Joe Reed. We talk about movies that were campaigned for Oscar but didn't get any Oscar nominations. Famous Kate episode that we've had so far. We've talked about the missing. We've talked about the gift. Oh, yes, well, we'll be discussing truth. So I will be discussing Kate monologue ing in that movie. Who won That feature is much more of her than I am not there, but yes. Oh,

spk_0:   2:00
yeah, that's a recently which is funny because Kate had a lot of like this had Oscar buzz movies between Elizabeth and The Aviator.

spk_1:   2:09
Yeah, and that's after that period. But like, yeah, we've talked about on that podcast. I'll be really excited to listen to you guys talk to some of that period of movies that kind of, at least in our consciousness, blur together. It's a lot of like just her face on posters. We're talking about the Charlotte Graze, the Veronica Garon's, but yeah, you're you're guys. Take on those movies.

spk_0:   2:35
She's always the titular character.

spk_1:   2:38
Yes, yes, Elizabeth and Oscar and Lucinda,

spk_0:   2:44
but I'm not there actually sort of realized the promise of its Oscar buzz was a nomination for Kate. So you guys can talk about her. Which is why it's exciting to have you here talk about this movie. And why did you choose to talk about this movie, Chris.

spk_1:   2:59
Okay, so you gave me a couple of options, and this one was right there on the list and like there was some other good titles in there. But part of the reason I chose this one is it's an interesting performance of hers to discuss, because at the time there was a lot of discussion back and forth like it's. It's certainly not a movie for everybody. It's not gonna be a performance for everybody, and it feels gimmicky to some people. And I think the movie itself to a lot of people doesn't register. Um, and it's very strange and abstract, and it's doing a lot of different styles. And to essentially assess Bob Dylan, who is really, really difficult to distill down into one thing. But I guess the reason I chose is I am actually one of the louder fans of this movie. I like this movie quite a bit. I love her in it. So it was a little bit of Let me get on Mike and defended this movie and definitely defend the performance that's like, so slippery and tricky to discuss in a way that doesn't reduce it down to a gimmick or the fact that, like she's just playing a man. And it's this, like one of her more stylized performances upto definitely why I went to choose this movie. And it also allows us to discuss Todd Haynes looked at as well. Yes, because this is usually the one when people are like saying their favorite Todd Haynes movies that everybody offers as their least favorite. I like to think that there is no least favorite Todd Haynes movies. He only does great movies. I

spk_0:   4:33
actually will disagree. There is the least favorite Todd Haynes, and it is without a doubt, Wonder struck.

spk_1:   4:39
Oh, that's fair. That's fair. I guess I I was even forgetting Wonder Struck. I would even defend Wonder Struck. I like, um, ultimately, where Wonder Struck goes if it's a little boring in the middle. But yeah, that's actually probably right. That Wonder Struck would be a lot of people's least a threat,

spk_0:   4:57
but we're here to talk about Todd Haynes's 2007 film I'm Not There, which is about the life of Bob Dylan. So six characters embodied by six different actors play different aspect of Bob Dylan's life and work. So the six are Ben Wish, All Christian Bale, Richard Gere, Marcus Carl Franklin, He's Ledger and Cate Blanchett.

spk_1:   5:23
Ah, I think that's all sexy. I

spk_0:   5:25
am. So she is Jude Quinn, who is a riff on electric guitar, sixties sort of counter revolutionary Dylan. So this is the time in his life after he went electric and was no longer a folk singer. In fact, that's the first introduction of the character played by Kate is in that famous concert. I think it was Newport, somewhere where Dylan came out and sang was an electric guitar. And it's The introduction is very funny, and it sort of sticks because the band, including Jude, have machine guns and they kill the audience, which is a sly bit of comedy from Todd Haynes there. So the film came out in 2007. Um, it's very famous in that it's the same year that Kate also played Elizabeth, so in the sort of like Kate lore in these two movies are sort of, um, always put together because they came out around within weeks of each other. I think one was October 1 was in November, and it gave her a lot of notices and press about her range like she can play Elizabeth and Bob Dylan in the same year or so. If nothing else, it added to sort of that aspect of her career as sort of quote unquote the best of her generation because of her range.

spk_1:   6:56
And like I mean, I guess in the grander sense what she doesn't I'm not. There could be a finger quotes stunt in terms of when you're looking at a career because she's playing a man, a very famous man at one of his most idiosyncratic times. I mean, Todd Haynes even says that he wanted to cast a woman, and I guess the I forget whether or not K Planche it was the person he had in mind, but for this role to kind of give the audience a sense, whether or not they know Bob Dylan, I mean to say you're a Bob Dylan fan is like ah, whole other level because then you'll have the hard core Bob Dylan fans like really jumping down your throat, Um, but to give, like, even unfamiliar audience, a sense of how much of like this kind of revolution this idea of not wrongness but, you know, going against the grain of what an audience is expecting. And that's why he cast this era of Bob Dylan as a woman.

spk_0:   8:05
So to answer your question that the character of Jude was always conceived for an actress but it wasn't conceived was exactly Kate in mind. That came in later. I think one of the things when I was reading about the film that to me was interesting that she she sort of said that when she was offered the party was because she was tasked with inhabiting the silhouette of 1966 Dylan because that was sort of a really chronic silhouette. But Haynes wanted to give it a sort of an ironic greed and not just gas, somebody who looks like him but somebody who's so markedly different but so simply different gender. And so that's more of an ironic take on that famous era of Dylan.

spk_1:   8:52
Yeah, and it gives you kind of an idea of the subversion of what he was doing at the time to It's so interesting like I. That's interesting to say that like she was tasked with really embodying what his silhouette looked at like a the time. Because, like as much as people want to call her portions of the movie a stunt, it does feel like the closest you know it's the one that looks the most like Dylan and like sounds the most like Dylan of any of these. Like Heath, Ledger is not trying to really embody anything other than like when Bob Dylan was suit like Us for fame Dylan or an idea of what His phantom was like. You know, and like, obviously, of Marcus Carl Franklin, who is a completely different race playing Bob Dylan and like Richard Gere, who looks nothing like Dylan either and is essentially like Richard Gere and Hobo Gear like So it is interesting to me watching this movie that, like she feels like the one that's closest to a true like what you would see in a more traditional bio pic of Bob Dylan of like, you know you want to chase what the artist looks and sounds and, like, moves like you want more mimic re

spk_0:   10:15
and you asked for my time. We really do need you. And I know more about you than you will ever know about me. You think I give a crumpet what you write in your lousy paper? Now, I don't need to look to someone else, man. Tell me I'm good. Slaughter me for all I care, I've refused. Let's talk about the performance. So I know you. You brought up that a lot of people think of it as mannered and gimmicky to me. I sort of like, you know, I re watched the film again to talk to you, but, um, when what I remembered before, it's sort of a lot of images of her walking. So I think to me the performance is very physical. So to what you were talking about, like she got Dylan's mannerisms, the way she talks, the way she walks. I mean, I meant, um or just sort of like he's so restless. It's such a physical performance. So her interpretation of Jude is very restless, somebody whose body is never still. And that's sort of what makes her to me. Very watchable, um, in that. But it's also the flip side of that is people can say it's an affectation,

spk_1:   11:23
right? I mean, if anything like her, Jude is most still when Jude is being on and performing this whole other persona like you get the sense of a really Jude and the Jude that Jude projects for the cameras. Basically, because a lot of Jude's footage is Jude being interviewed or Jude monologue ing to the camera. And we are essentially, like the interviewer to Jude. Um, but yeah, like, I think, even if maybe if we watched it side by side with a true Dylan, what, like her performance feels so physically complete that at least convinces us that she's doing a version of Dylan, even if it's not exactly like it. You know, like it feels very like, really, like from the feet up this full performance. Um, I don't know. There's also a certain part of her performance to that, like makes it a little bit more wowing that the movie is truly like built on artifice, and all of different Bob Dylan's have their own, um, like a signed style that the movie goes into, like completely different cinematic styles. And, like, you know, um, Jude's is very like black and white documentary style, for the most part, like the um, Is it No way back was the documentary at the time Ah, with Bob Dylan back? Don't look back. Um, but like at the same time, like, Yes, it is true that the movie is doing all of these different like, kind of flashy things that, like our very apparent to you and like some might say, pretentious or some might say artificial. Um, but I think that her performance, when you are actually just watching it. If once you get over the shock of a woman playing Bob Dylan, it feels so natural and like all of her physical mannerisms do feel or panicked what the position of the character is.

spk_0:   13:29
Yeah, I mean, Breanna reading. I went and read some of the reviews, and I really like what J Hoberman said in The Village voice about the performance and about Haines himself. He said, like, you know, Haynes is not a natural filming. I'm paraphrasing, but sort of. What he asks of Franklin and Blanchett is what makes this movie interesting. So because they blatantly alienating the audience by not being like, um, Bob Dylan. And sort of that adds to this what Haynes wanted Thio the reaction he wanted to get out of people.

spk_1:   14:03
Yeah, I think that alienation is an interesting idea, and especially when you're talking about the genre of this movie like musical biopics air usually like, kind of like comfort food movies. You know, like you know, the formula that they're supposed to follow like it follows kind of the emotional journey of the artists that we most know them for. Um, and like we get Tau have, like easy satisfaction Pilot being told the story we already know, and this movie is very uninterested in doing that. And I think even some of the performances, like alienating, is very uninterested in word choice because I think of even like Christian Bale, who's probably doing his version of a literal Bob Dylan impersonation. But he looks nothing like him. Um, so it's very like strange tow watch in a way that, like I think, because of what Todd Haynes is going for, makes you really kind of grapple with the artist's himself who is very hard to place. So it's like, How do you define someone who is not easily defined? But Cate Blanchett, on the other hand, is like the most like the thing that you congrats on to the most as it feels the most riel. And I think by design.

spk_0:   15:20
Yeah, I mean, I I really love this performance. I've always liked it. You know, I didn't see the movie when it came out. 2007 is my sort of missing year in movies. I don't know what I was doing, but I look back at 2007 movies in all these movies. I didn't see them when they were released. I guess I was busy that year. So I saw it maybe like a year later or something like that. But it always stayed with me because Kate is somebody. I love her for the way that she can take a character and make them real, but also at the same time, I think there is always artifice in what she does. She's someone very concerned with how she looks in the frame. Yeah, this comes most evident when she works with Haynes because he's also somebody concerned was the Miss Johnson and using his actors within the frame to sort of get a tableau and not just an effect. So in this movie is like that. Her performance is like that. She does mimic Bob Dylan in the sixties, but it's also completely not really, not just because she's a woman and he's a mad. But because everything is the way she walks around the way she sits and slumps. Everything is never relaxed, but also that's what makes it great. It's the character is not relaxed, but the actor is giving you what you need to so enjoy the frame.

spk_1:   16:51
It feels like the most honest way to capture Bob Dylan because Bob Dylan, like you, think of his music, especially is earlier music that this movie kind of tractor the first, like few decades of his career. And it's like it feels like so authentic, especially to the time of music, but also at the same time as a person. Bob Dylan's a bullshit artist like he's a liar. He is like intentionally provocative for the sake of like being combative sometimes but also actually affecting change at the same time. So yet, like there's something about, you know, that tension between the real and the not really that makes the movie exactly what it needs to be in order to, like, be unauthentic Portrait of Bob Dylan as a person in this an artist.

spk_0:   17:44
Yeah, so we talked about Gate and we touched a little bit on Bail and Heath Ledger. But do you think all the six personas of Dylan work? Do you like all the performances? I personally do not like his ledger in this movie, and not just because he's just playing himself, but I think that's the least part, that moving, even though I really like Charlotte Gainsbourg in the same part. But it's sort of that's like the traditional biopic. So it's just following a marriage disintegrating where everything, all the other five you feel are a riff on on what it means to do a biopic. So what? What did you And on the other performances,

spk_1:   18:23
um, I mean, it's interesting, I think, to a certain degree how much I like them is how to the degree that it's actually interested in Bob Dylan. And I think probably Richard Gere is the least interested in. That's the portion that's least interested in about in Bob Dylan. And, like, I don't think really Richard Gere has much to do some. Maybe that's why he's my least favorite Heath Ledger. It definitely feels like you're Air. Todd Haynes might be playing with the type of celebrity that he Ledger had around the time that this was filmed. This is of course, um, the This is the same years, The Dark Knight being released. Correct?

spk_0:   19:06
No, this was released there before. This was the last released while he was still alive,

spk_1:   19:11
but still very kind of lake. Our mind goes to the type of fame that he'd ledger had at that time. I actually really like Ben Wish Shaw in this movie, especially if you want to see. I mean, like, he's a pretty like could Bob Dylan in terms of, you know, looking and sounding and behaving like that care, but like he doesn't really have his own. He's the one that's featured the least, you know. He's just in those like kind of interview clips. Yeah, but he's really good. Christian bale. I go back and forth on like I feel like it is for her, an actor that does a lot. You want to talk about gimmicks and, like he does like different things with physicality and sound. And it's like he clearly tries to nail the sound of this version of Dylan and like, ah, hostility almost. And he also is when, like Dylan found Jesus and, uh, but like I Christian Bale, sometimes I watch this movie because I've seen it probably a dozen times now. And I'm like, maybe Christian Bale is actively bad in this movie. Um, but I don't always feel that way. I I buy these definitely Kate at the top. Without question.

spk_0:   20:31
I don't think Kristen Bell is bad per se, but I think he's the only one who's not having fun. Like, I think Cristian Bale is not in. I'm not there. Christian Bale is in a strayed bio pic of Bob Dylan, directed by Tony.

spk_1:   20:47
Yeah, he he's in, like Michael Mann's Bob Dylan biopic or something. He definitely is the one that's like as much as this movie is a bunch of different movies, he's in his own movie, which I don't know.

spk_0:   21:01
I think the the part that that is a straight biopic is the his ledger part. It's not the Christian Bale part, so there's like a disconnect there.

spk_1:   21:11
But it feels like more of, um, Charlotte Gainsborough story, which I'm glad you brought her up because she's really good in this movie as well. But obviously she's not playing Bob Dylan. Yeah,

spk_0:   21:22
no, she's drinking. I remember, like the first time when I saw it years ago. She was my takeaway. It's like, Oh, wow, you know, Kate is amazing and the best performance, but also wow, Charlotte Gainsbourg Well done.

spk_1:   21:34
We should also mention Julianne Moore is essentially paying playing a version of Joan by as, um if you've ever there, I think it's even a riff on a particular interview, which, if you see it, it's actually her performance is kind of funny for, like the tics that she picks up from Tobias.

spk_0:   21:53
What is it? An interview from a documentary

spk_1:   21:56
I for I've seen it before because I remember someone sending it to me like this is what Julianne Moore is doing. But I honestly couldn't tell you where to find it on YouTube. Um, and then I saw it, and I was like, Oh my God, that's hilarious.

spk_0:   22:11
Yeah, Michelle Williams displaying a riff on Edie Sedrick. Yeah, Statement something about Warhol. Hey! And she's very fun, if a little manner toe have to say she is fun. But also I I don't think she has a CZ much control of her instrument as she has now, which is amazing, because when she played when Virdon recently, she was so fantastic and I think she's on, I'm happy, like in that in a decade she's gotten so much better. Uh, true, uh, urine. Let Charles Atlas and the bomb

spk_1:   22:47
of she's been kind of uptight lately. Yes, In fact, if you'd like to know, it's been

spk_0:   22:57
complete shit. Angeline has been missing for four days or catch. She knows eventually nowadays. Don't shoot you.

spk_1:   23:05
If you're asking if I remember your little pussy, course I do. Oh, charming. She has this sweetness. Little we forget that Cate Blanchett and Michelle Williams have been seen partners before.

spk_0:   23:22
I know nobody ever talks about that in like, kind of like actresses who acted together. It's for gotten maybe because cannons hot humanity of that, Yeah, a Gate and Julianne Moore have been in three movies together, but I think they only share it scenes in the first movie, the one with Rupert Rubert ever on Ideal

spk_1:   23:45
When Ideal Husband. That's right, because they also had this. And they have the shipping news.

spk_0:   23:49
Yes, so yeah, but I also know people don't really talk about them being in movies together because it was a long time ago. And they are the two actresses who have worked. Was Haynes more than once? E. Guess Michelle Williams now, too, because she was in Wonder, struck

spk_1:   24:08
the beloved Wonder struck, as we have mentioned before.

spk_0:   24:12
So one point that came to me a lot as I was watching this. I'm not really a huge fan of this movie. But one thing that made it land better with me this time that I would that I was watching. It is sort of the recent corporate your ization off the music bio pic was movies like Rocket Man and Bohemian Rhapsody. And Yesterday it sort of makes you appreciate this rift from Haynes on the music biopic. Do you think that, um,

spk_1:   24:39
I've seen a 1,000,000%? It was one of the reasons why I like this was the movie that I wanted to talk about a little bit I mean, even though this has nothing to do with Kate. But, like, I think there is a certain element that, like if this movie had come out this year, even people would be way kinder to it. I mean, I think even like Rocket Man this year got a much freer pass simply because it tried to do something a little different. Um, it's more of a musical than it is a traditional, straightforward biopic, even though it is still that. And it's also coming off of Bohemian Rhapsody, which is obviously, very well loathed, even though it is also very popular. Yeah, I mean, I think it really goes against the grain of what a traditional bio pic is, especially in a way that is really in tune to who this artist fundamentally is. That I think is really interesting. That should have The movie should have gotten more credit for it at the time, but I think if people revisited now, they would definitely appreciate that more about it, because we've grown more and more weary of these type of biopics and they're not going away. So

spk_0:   25:55
yeah, I mean, I hear that they're doing a yesterday like was the music of Prince. Uh oh.

spk_1:   26:02
I have not heard that, but oh, plea We already have. We already have a not just purple rain. We have prince concert movies. We don't We don't need that.

spk_0:   26:11
I wanted to talk to you a little bit about Can we make a case for this being Kate's best performance? Because I think if you just take her part, it works as a whole. Like, I don't think the whole movie works. Um, and maybe this is where you can tell me why you think it works. But But before we get there, does can you make a case for this being her best performance?

spk_1:   26:36
Um I mean, I think somebody definitely could. I don't think I would be Universum for it, because, I mean, I would probably jump towards like Carol, but I definitely think it's up there. It's probably in her top five, if not close to her top five. I don't think she's, ah, performer that we associate with risk, and it's definitely her riskiest like you can definitely sense her as a performer not taking I mean, of course, by the mere concept of it is Cate Blanchett playing Bob Dylan. It is essentially risky, but like you can see her really going all in on that and not making the easy choices. And like still being the kind of performer that we know her to be, that like she can be powerful and confrontational, Um, and vulnerable, Um, and particularly this is probably the version of Dylan that we see that is the least vulnerable. And she still finds those things on and that she chooses to find them. I think you can definitely say it's her riskiest performance.

spk_0:   27:45
I think you know, when we're talking about risk. I think that Kate doesn't get as much credit for risk. But like, I think a risk. It's performances Blue Jasmine because that performance is so big and huge and mannered, and that could have like she could have fallen flat on her face on that. Instead, she succeeded. Kate was definitely singled out as the standout performance not just was awards, but with critics like I'm reading these critics and almost every single critic who wrote about I'm not there, says a variation of that's the performance that works so beyond, sort of like the gotcha gender bending aspects of the performance. Was she singled out because her part of the movie is the one that works. And why do the other parts maybe not work as well? Where do you think?

spk_1:   28:33
I think the movie itself doesn't work as well as I think it does if she's not as amazing as she is. And if, because it is structured for this time period, obviously one of Bob Dylan's most famous time periods, the movie itself kind of hinges on her segment in a way that, like at least pieces of the others, feel a little more extraneous, like this is the central piece of the movie. So, like it does rely on her to be that good, and she is that good. I definitely think that it's warranted that every critic is talking about her performance when they talk about this movie because a she's that good. But she's also that integral to the movie working.

spk_0:   29:20
Yeah, so what are some of the scenes that I like? Like I You know, when I remember this movie, I remember images of her, but now that I've watched it again, I sort of like think. The press conference seen is such as a stand out, and she's so great, Just forget what is being sad, which is, I think it's It's It's a ceases of the film, but just sort of the way she, like, fidgets for a cigarette or asks for it to be lighted. Just the physicality of that scenes is something that's great. What are some of the scenes that you like

spk_1:   29:49
her? I mean, it's It's almost like 1/4 wall breaking. Everybody talks about the final shot of Carol, where, like she's essentially looking into the care, the camera and it's mean to death. But like she also does it in this movie, too. Really, I'm positive. It's not the last shot of the movie, but it's her last shot. She's just done some like little mini monologue that's like very introspective and like, revealing of who Bob Dylan is this person, and she looks into the camera, and there's this flash of it at the end that is breaking down the artifice of the character to where it's like it's almost like you have a moment with Kate on Dhe. There's something essential about that that I maybe won't describe all that well, but like this is a bio pic about somebody who adopted several different personas. And to see that break down is so smart and tow. Like have the performer. And of course, it's like Cate Blanchett, and it's like when we're watching it, it's like we're watching this character. And then all of a sudden we're having this, like, private moment with Cate Blanchett, where she just smiles at us. Um, so it's like it's also a diva worship thing, but it's so like it's it's like this, like, spark, like you feel it in your gut of, like, the actress thing. But it's also like, um, like the movies thesis, kind of clicking into place in a way that, like, is just magic on the set that happened to be caught on the camera, you know, that's that's the little brief moment I think of when I think of this performance.

spk_0:   31:36
Yeah, you discover it. Well, I I love that moment, too. I also like a sort of the meeting in the car between Jude and Ginsburg, David Asa's Allen Ginsberg. Mmm, that's her funniest moment. It's sort of just the way that she's so excited to meet Allen Ginsberg, but yeah, perplexed by him?

spk_1:   31:58
Yeah, that I love that scene, too. It's interesting to see how she plays Jude as like odd and, um like, kind of wowed by Ginsberg, which, of course, like that's who Ginsburg was at the time. But like rather than being like this kind of nervous version like, she kind of relaxes into it like she just experienced something euphoric. It's It's interesting, and like you said, it's funny. This performance is funny, like she doesn't get enough credit for how funny she is, and she's funny. Even in this movie

spk_0:   32:32
she is. If I had a note to give her look at me trying to give Kate notes, I would say she says Man a lot and I know I don't know. It sort of bothered me a little bit, maybe because it's she's a woman playing a man and she kept saying, Man and I don't know is that an affectation wasn't in the script is that I have no knowledge of Dylan, especially so I don't know if he said in my mind a lot, but I have to say she said it as Jude a lot and I was only I always be like I always like Snap, snap up! OK, Why is she saying man again?

spk_1:   33:09
She says it with this drawl, though, that like I could just listen to or say it all day like men. Like if you put a sound drop in there of her like 1,000,000 man's in this movie, you're right. She says it a lot. But as someone who has been criticized for saying the word like a lot, sometimes that's just who a person is, Um, but yes, like it could be. Ah lot man.

spk_0:   33:33
Yeah. So Kate one devil pickup in Venice as best actress for this movie, and she was nominated basically, for all the awards, she won the Golden Globe in the year that the Golden Globes. Where in Televised? Better Strike? Yes, so you know, we're both sort of award aficionados. So do you think that she could have one more awards if she gave a great speech at the Golden Globes?

spk_1:   34:01
I mean, maybe it's still like as great as I think she is when you watch this movie, it is bizarre, and it is not, you know, casual viewer friendly. It is not mainstream viewer friendly in a way that I'm still even with her being Cape Blanche, it shocked that she got as far and was like, even considered a front runner until it was like that Oscar category felt like we that that was such an exciting category because it felt like we didn't know even that morning who was gonna win. And of course, it was Tilda Swinton, that one that we should say, but, like, I'm still kind of mystified that this very strange movie, even for her performance as great as it is. But it's also a very strange performance. Got that far?

spk_0:   34:54
I think another actress might not have gotten nominated. Yeah, I think it's the performance is great, and she definitely deserved the nominations. But I also think she's Cate Blanchett.

spk_1:   35:04
Yeah, it speaks to her stature and the way that people consider her, and that they would consider something this out there from her because she's her.

spk_0:   35:13
Yeah, and you know, she won the Indy Spirits and its she gives good speech, but this is one of my favorite speeches of her because it's not funny or shouldn't make any sort of big proclamation or anything but it she made her speech about Todd Haynes, and she sort of said that everybody owes a great debt to him because of his body of work. And he's always been independent. And that sort of like you can sort of see the affection between them. Which is why it's one of my favorite of her speeches. Steeply wonderful independent spirit. Well, I guess it's not just where the money comes from, its the creative thinking behind it. And I think we all owe a great debt of thanks to not only this film but Todd Haynes, his body of work, which has always been

spk_1:   36:00
independent. And she's right, damn it. She is one other

spk_0:   36:07
thing I I I wanted to talk about. People always talk in the media about her being one of the best actors ever. So and I think ah, lot of that has to do. Like I mentioned earlier was the fact that she released this in the Golden Age within weeks of each other. And, you know, nobody talks about the Golden Age. It's sort of like just the mean. Now

spk_1:   36:26
you ask me, that's the one. That's the affectation. That's the one that is? Yeah, Yeah, the gimmick. Oh, I love her. And I love her.

spk_0:   36:38
Yeah, agreed. But do you think if she hadn't made those movies within the same year, would people have not thought of her as having the range that they think she has Now is my theory right?

spk_1:   36:54
If those movies weren't in the same year, I mean, I think I mean, range is something we think about when we think about Kate Blanchett. So I mean, maybe, I mean, maybe it's I think your your theory is probably right and that it helped her get nominated for I'm not there because it probably ah, Elizabeth the Golden Age probably complimented her to I'm not there more so than vice versa because we know what we're getting with Elizabeth the Golden Age. And it's like That's to a certain extent that is a movie star performance for a certain type of movie for, like, costume dramas, a very campy movie. And then this feels like this feels like the subversion of that. So I think at least in terms of like a career stature and talking about versatility, like it gets the points of that go to I'm not there. Not Elizabeth.

spk_0:   37:54
Yeah, because she's always been very apprehensive about movie. She obviously do You hear her talk? She loves theater much more than movies. She always talks about the theater, but between 2006 and 2008 she did, I think, seven films in three years. So these two, plus the three from 06 switches notes on a scandal babble and the good German. And then she did Indiana Jones. So some of these movies didn't work. Um, but most of them did. She got three Oscar nominations in two years, and she was in a big, huge blockbuster. So just, I think not just these two movies, but maybe the combination of the seven movies to gather. It sort of got her to this like, Oh, she's one of the greatest screen actors. But then, you know, she went away for another six years and to do theater and came back was Blue Jasmine.

spk_1:   38:52
Yeah, and I mean, some of that, too, is like she was probably being you. Think of some of those directors, too. It's like Spielberg, Soderbergh and Yuri, too. She's being courted by these like big name on tours and big name studio directors, too. So, like, maybe that has something to do with it. But like there is even an enormous range in those roles, too. So, like if she was going to go that route, she got kind of lucky and even something like that terrible Indiana Jones. She emerged unscathed from that. She emerged unscathed from that movie and the wig that they asked her to wear.

spk_0:   39:34
Yeah, I like that performance. But then I am very earnest in my love for Kate. So

spk_1:   39:40
I like that performance because I think she's the only person on that set that knows what that movie is. You could

spk_0:   39:47
be a She is. She and Todd Haynes are maybe the two people who best knew what I'm not there. Waas. Yes, absolutely no. I want to just mention this very funny joke at the Oscars that year, where she presented an award and after she left the state, John Steward made sort of the joke about what we were talking about about the rain, she said. Not only did she play Dylan and Queen Elizabeth and all of this was illustrated with photos of her, and then he put a photo of the pit bull from No Country for Old Men. And she's like That was Kate, too. Um so he so Jones Steward was adding to the legend.

spk_1:   40:24
The minute that is Cate Blanchett.

spk_0:   40:26
Yeah, I wanted to ask you questions about We talked about her a lot, but I want to ask you about questions about what you think of Cate Blanchett's since this is a Cate Blanchett podcast. So what was the first time you so Cate Blanchett in a movie?

spk_1:   40:41
Ah, first time I saw her was Elizabeth, so I would have been like 11 or 12 years old. I know people have different feelings about both that performance in that movie, but like it's just this and she was already established before then. But like it's such an arrival of a performance in this fully formed performer, that's like, Who is this person giving this type of work and not just giving the level of, like, craft that that performances but elevating the movie along with it? Yeah, like I still love. I still love the original Elizabeth or the first Elizabeth. I should say, Um, but that was my first time, and it was love at first sight.

spk_0:   41:27
Same. That's why I'm doing this podcast. Yes. Uh, would you say I think you mentioned it earlier. So would you say Carol is your favorite performance of

spk_1:   41:36
hers? Yeah. Um I mean, ah, for somebody who's still great and great all of the time, or at least most of the time. Um, it's definitely Carol for me. Um I get people having other options. I just think it's kind of centralizes a lot of the things that I think about when I think about Cate Blanchett and just, uh, the degree of nuance. I don't know if nuances the thing that people praise her for and it's every moment of that performance is just loaded with subtext. And it feels real. Feels like this fully composed person, like she can give this whole sense of history to what she's saying with just a glance. It's like it's a lot of like, nebulous things that feel like you can hold on to them and understand this woman. But like when you try to describe them, they sound vague. And the performance is anything but that. Yeah. I'ma i'ma Carol.

spk_0:   42:36
I think everybody move loves Kate. is a Carol person. Yeah, it is, I think, the pinnacle, which is funny, because after she made it, I think she's been lost a little bit in terms of movies, anyway, I I don't think she knows what she wants to do in movies, because after cow, she

spk_1:   42:52
seems to be like embracing, like this sense of movie star a little bit. Not that I think she's necessarily been bad, but maybe she's like like doing things like Ocean's Eight, where she gets to just, like, Show Up the fabulous and like, you know, add maybe a layer to the myth that's not as exciting. But still, you know, it's still her.

spk_0:   43:14
Okay, did somebody who sort of, as you know, sort of Well, let's say, in fact, some people call her overrated. Do you think she was ever underrated?

spk_1:   43:26
Like a performance that I think is underrated? Yes. Um, I mean, I don't love Kate doing like European dialect under I'm looking through her work. I think, if anything, it's like she does a lot of things that don't necessarily serve her, but she, like, shows up fully formed and like, yeah, you know, like a real like she sometimes the most believable thing about her movies, and they are least interested in her. Like the missing My Podcast. We did an episode on the missing where it's like she's really good. But the movie doesn't really care about her character, even though she's the protagonist. So it's like she's kind of just on her own a little bit, I guess maybe the the one that comes to mind in that lake. When people discuss this movie, they don't discuss her and they should reevaluate her. Even though she was praised at the time is probably Ripley talent. Mr Ripley. She's really good and brings this really like necessary energy that has this like undercurrent of tension versus the rest of the movie, just being like nothing attention in a way that, like we don't talk about that performance enough and maybe because she's fairly removed from the action the movie. But I guess maybe that's the one I would say is underrated now.

spk_0:   44:55
Yeah, maybe she needs to find another Patricia Highsmith story to do next. Who Who is your favorite? Casey and partner? You can say Rooney Mara, because that

spk_1:   45:07
you know what I will say just for the sake of having this answer. My favorite Cape partner is herself from coffee and cigarettes or cigarettes and coffee. Whatever that may be is called where she plays her own twin coffee and cigarettes. The Gym Jar mus movie That's like skits. Basically, our sketch is

spk_0:   45:27
great, isn't it? Yeah,

spk_1:   45:28
yeah. Kate's best scene partner is herself.

spk_0:   45:31
Yeah, that's a great answer. That's the right answer. Who would you like to see her work with?

spk_1:   45:39
Oh, man, that she hasn't worked with already.

spk_0:   45:43
It could be a repeat. Whatever you like.

spk_1:   45:45
I mean, I always want I will always want to see her be in more Todd hands movies. Some of I would like to see her work with a female Artur like a Tamara Jenkins that could bring out the notes in her that are really funny. I think, um, she has, like, a natural sense of humor, even something like, I'm not there. That just, like, happens sometimes, Um, versus the times when she's like trying to be funny or making a character choice. That's like is maybe like on the more forceful end of some of the things she's done. But I would like to see her do a more like, understated, like dramatic comedy that could just, like bring out those natural notes.

spk_0:   46:32
Yeah, I would. I would like definitely to see Erin more commodious, too. Is there a cultural perception of Cade that you like, or one that you're annoyed by?

spk_1:   46:43
I love. And I mean, maybe this is just like the first thing that comes to mind. A lake powerful, like fashion. Kate like whenever she has a really great red carpet and people lose their minds over it, there's for whatever reason, like she keeps bringing it all the time. Like my mind goes to that Oscar dress that was like the blue pedals. You know which one I'm talking about. But like people always like, seemed to be Shi'ar. She at least chooses things that are surprising, or like opulent in a way that, like, gets people excited. And, yeah, I don't think we talk about Cate Blanchett enough as a fashion icon.

spk_0:   47:26
Yeah, I think no big an authority than Sandy Powell has called her the best person who knows how to wear clothes. So I also like red carpet Kate and I have, I think, my favorite is the can Dress for the premiere of Carol. Oh my God, Very dramatic was the Can stamps. She knew what she was doing. She's student posed every two seconds. It took her a long time to walk that those steps while Todd and Rooney just ran up,

spk_1:   48:02
They were like, Get me out of here! So it'll be really I'll be right there.

spk_0:   48:05
And she's like, No, I'm creating a moment. Wait for me or don't wait for me. Is there anything else you wanted to say about? I'm not there?

spk_1:   48:16
I don't know. I think listeners should, if they have not already go back and revisit it not just for Kate, but like in the musical biopics sense. I think they will find it a little bit more rewarding of a watch, particularly in light of ah, lot of the recent musical biopics we've had and will continue to have. So yes, go back and re watch the movie and then you can still tell me I'm wrong. But just give it another shot.

spk_0:   48:48
Yes, Thank you so much, Chris, for you, for having me. Do you want to tell our listeners where they can find you and your work.

spk_1:   48:56
Yeah. Again, I'm file. I write regularly at the film experience. You can follow my podcast. It's this Had Oscar buzz. We are, um, on apple podcasts. We are on Google play stitcher. Our Twitter account is had underscore Oscar underscore, Buzz. Um and my Twitter account is crispy file. That's f b I l, and

spk_0:   49:19
you can find me on Twitter at m E Underscored, says and follows hot pass at Sunday's escape And until next time, thank you for listening.