Welcome to Sunday Night, Cruise Imagine and now here's your radio, Reverend Bill Cruise.
A great, big, warm Welcome to your Sunday Night family. You, yes, you, you really are welcome here and we're all together on air, on digital and online. So come on call in now and share with us on one three one eight seveny three. Soon we discuss feminism and plastic surgery with Eva Cox. Later this hour, we talked to the original lead singer and a founding member of The Wiggles, Greg Page, who's currently playing President FDR in the current Australian production of Annie.
Next hour, and with National Reconciliation Week winding down, we talked to one of Australia's leading Aboriginal psychologists, Dr Tracy Westerman about the launch of Change Direction, a powerful new short film which delivers the stark truth about Aboriginal suicide rates, particularly among young people, and they are continuing to rise.
In our last hour, we talked to critically acclaimed author Hilda Hinton about her book The Opposite of Lonely, which deals with loneliness, social disconnection and the power of friendship. Last week, there were tears and hope as families mourned the Bondi stabbing victems. On inquest's final day and last Friday, a teen was arrested in Melbourne over the Northland shopping
center machete brawl. He had previously been found with horrifying images of himself posing with knives, buying machetes, and graphic video of the stabbing of another young male. The fifteen year old was already on four counts of bail when he allegedly became involved in last Sunday's violent melay, sparked
by rival gang members looking at each other the wrong way. Meanwhile, Victorian retailers are clambering to remove prohibited machetes from store shelves as an Australian first ban on the sale of the weapons comes into effect. The ban was fast tracked last Monday after the terrifying weekend of knife crime, and forced as of midday last Friday. The measures imposed an interim ban on the sale of cutting a knives with
a blade longer than twenty centimeters, excluding kitchenware. So what do you think of the Victorian government's retail machete ban? Is it something we should be looking at? In New South Wales, Queensland and the Act. How serious is knife and machete crime become in the community? Will this ban improve public safety? As online access to these products remains unregulated? Should the Commonwealth step in to regulate the sale of
knives and machetes across Australia wide? Could a buyback scheme similar to the gun buy back be an effective way of removing machetes from the community. So your thoughts on a ban on machetes and cutting edge knives with a blade longer than twenty centimeters? Is it a good or a bad idea? One three, one eight seven three And As National Reconciliation Week winds down for twenty twenty five, we are a minded of Australia's shared history and our
ongoing journey towards reconciliation. It's been a time to reflect, learn and take action, honoring the resilience, culture and achievements of Aboriginal and Torrestraate islander peoples. The theme this year has been bridging Now to Next and has urged all Australians to unite in advancing reconciliation. It has called on us to learn from the past, take action in the present, and build a more inclusive future. So what is National Reconciliation Week twenty twenty five meant for you? Have you
participated in any events over the past week? How important has it been for you to reflect, learn and take action honoring the resilience, culture and achievements of Aboriginal and Torrestrad Island of People's over National Reconciliation Week? What would you like to see happen to advance reconciliation into the future.
What do we need to do to build a more inclusive future with our Indigenous brothers and sisters and in advancing reconciliation, what must we learn from the past and what about closing the gap between Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians. Do we need to do more? Meanwhile, there have been community calls for answers after another death in custody of a twenty four year old Aboriginal man in Alice Springs.
The man was declared dead in hospital about seventy minutes after he was restrained on the ground following an altercation with security guards at a local court Coals about one ten pm last Tuesday. So are we doing enough to end Aboriginal deaths in custody? How? How can we get these numbers down? And suicide rates among Aboriginal and Torrestrate Islander that's First Nations people are substantially higher than those
of non Indigenous Australians. What can be done to reduce deaths by suicide and suicide behavior among First Nations people? And does this need to be a public health priority for all Australian governments? And last Monday May twenty six was National Sorry Day, which remembers and acknowledges the mistreatment of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who are forcibly removed from their families and communities, which we now know as the Stolen Generations. So what are we doing? Are
we doing enough to help Stolen Generation survivors? And can we all play a part in the healing process? Today, twenty three years after the Bringing Them Home Report and twelve years since the National Apology, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children are still over ten times more likely than non Indigenous children to be removed from their families. What needs to be done to turn this around? So come on, I'd like your thoughts on National Reconciliation Week twenty twenty
five and its significance to you. One three one eight seven three and American singer Charlene was born in Los Angeles, California, on this day in nineteen fifty, so she's seventy five. Her only hit was in nineteen eighty two with I've Never Been to Me, which spent six weeks at number one in Australia.
Really you.
Cursing your life?
You're a discontented mother into regmentu. I've no doubt you dream about the things you never do.
But I wish someone had to talk to me.
Like I want to talk to you.
Who have been to Georgia and California anywhere I could all run.
Took the hand of a preacher, man me me.
Love in the sun. But I ran out of places and friendly faces because I had to be free.
To parent. I spad, I never been to me.
Please, lady, please leady, don't just walk away, because I have this need to tell you why.
All alone today I can see so much he still living in your eyes, or to shed about of a very hut that has lived and really lies.
Oh, I've been to Nice and the Isle of Greece.
While I said to Champagne, yet I moved like Harlow and.
Love to come and showed them what I've got.
I've been.
I'm dressed by kings, and I've seen some things that are all minds most deceit.
Two pair and die never been.
To me.
Hair, you know, appearces.
It's a lie, a fantasy we create about people and places as we'd.
Like them to be here.
But you know a true it's that little baby you're holding, and it's that man your father this morning, the same one you're going to make love with tonight.
That's true.
That's the sometimes I've been.
To crying and formal moorn children.
Then my husband made me complete.
I took the sweet life that never loved like me been from.
The sweet I spent my last exploring the.
Son, horring that cost too much to be for.
Love them to bear.
To Welcome to the show, seem.
Okay, Bill, how are you going mate?
Good today?
That's good to hear.
Yeah, just on this this machete thing, particularly the band they're instituting him in Victoria. I look, I think that's it's an interesting thing. I think there'll be other states around the country that are clamoring for that to happen. It's probably going to be a national approach anyway, because other states will be asking their government what about us? Yeah, well,
why you know that? And as for repeat offenders, particularly repeat youth offenders, something's not quite working out because if they can keep being put on bail and they keep reaffect well, obviously something's going wrong there in the system where never.
We've never, we've never in this country done enough for our youth sieve never.
Yeah, well, I mean, and that's that's your talking probably about getting in early and all that kind of thing, really early before they give this stage. And I would agree with that. I think you do have to get in very very early. I also think when crimes like this happen, and people don't like to hear this, but when crimes like this happen, yes, you do have to have rehabilitation. I'm all in favor of that, but there does have to be some kind of punishment or some
kind of consequence for that action. Otherwise, you know, the message won't get through.
Yes, right, that's right.
You've got to do both, got to do both.
If you don't do both, then I'm afraid these kinds of issues will happen. And when you have when you have repeated that this being let out repeatedly, so to speak, Well, then.
You know, what can you expect if you're going to do the same thing you get And.
The reason they get let out is because none of them people in who are looking after these sorts of kids know what to do, or they do know what to do, they just haven't got the resources to do it.
Well.
Yeah, I don't know where the magistrates have actually said that, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were to be the case. But you know, it is a real problem. It's a problem right across the place. And I do think that governments they've got to get their heads around this issue because if they don't, the community anger is just going to keep boiling over.
I think it'll just keep boiling over. God bless you Siev Thanke you for you come on your thoughts on the Machete Band one three one eight seven three.
You're with the radio Reverend Bill Crooves.
Good a Michael, what made you pick up the phone?
Mate?
Oh?
Well, just talking about the issues of all the night crimes and banning twenty centimeter blades. They look a ten centimeters play could still kill somebody. Yeah, that's one thing, but they should introduce something right where people who kill people from stubbings and machetes or any sort of knife or shootings or whatever locked away for life, and what they should do. They should open a TV channel where's
twenty four to seven. They watch the prisoners there, They watch them and then they go, Okay, what's changed about him? And nothing? Just his fingernails for a bit longer. He's just in their waist of a life because he thought he was cool to carry a knife around. And that should be the consequence, because if the consequence is, you know, the risk is very high, what rewards do they get if they're going to risk their whole life because they don't like someone.
Yeah, it sounds it kind of looked like in Melbourne like it was some sort of gang crime, didn't the.
Yeah, well they should walk him up for light. In Sydney, now we've got you know, the worst or the worst at the moment with all the shooting is all the shootings.
Yeah, the people are quick to go out to people with the knives. But in Sydney it's his full line, isn't it? With guns?
Well, I was nearby, I was there when it happened. I was just on the other side of the road.
Yeah, so how do you mean tell us?
Oh, well, I was about to start a new job.
Last week on Monday. So I started a new job and I'm trying to find the quickest way to get the Paramatta and I was on Paramatter Road turning with a Mercedes.
Yes.
Yeah, And then when I went down there, Oh, this year's just people screaming, going crazy, horns beeping, pinging as a car accident, but no, it was gunshots being fired.
And they sped off there and he didn't get shot there, got shot a few a bit before that, and seeing all the blood everywhere, and you know, for people to see that look even after that young bloke is around my age, got shot in front of his house. Yeah, I'm scared to go into my own house because I live around that sort of area. You know, at night time.
I'm going to get what needs to be done, Michael, Well, strict.
The gun laws, the border security, what's coming to our country. There's too much illegal drugs, which is fueling.
The gang crome and the cigarettes as well.
Now, well the cigarette that's more of the Yeah, that's a big one on the tobacconists and well, it's really disgusting what we're seeing. You know, you import the third world, you become the third world.
So do you think do you think the police are doing enough?
No, not at all.
They are under resource. They don't have the resources. They can't figure out who shot that guy in Condell Pass the other week, that twenty three year old guy. They can't even find out who that was, even though they can still get evidence from the burnt out cars, the fake plates that they use, sort all the illegal stuff.
But what they do is they steal a car, they find a car with similar number plates, take a phoo, gets on the copy it over, send them a plate so they can go to it, go and detect it on the police cameras.
Yep, yep.
So the very underresourced, if they could stop guns coming in, you know, all these knives to who gets the hold of knives? Who get to hold of this? Like the stop and search what they had in the UK, they had to stop it because it was considered racist because a majority of the people that were carrying knives were of African descent. So they stopped that because it was racist. And they're pulling up, you know, the typical suspect and
what is what the police thought. So it's all the wake stuff that's getting in the way and people dying, Like it's very obvious to tell who could possibly be carrying someone wearing a hoodie, you know, trying to cover their face, trying to you know, one of those what do they call them, chees or whatever, But they're more likely they something on them on them than someone you know, dressed in you know, a polo shirt or a suit. So it's not really racist. That's what they should bring in.
Tould be a commonwealth wall that stop and stop and search. They would really prevent things, give police more power to search vehicles and houses as well.
Police police used to have those, Michael, but they abused it.
They abused it, Yes, that's right.
But now so that there's almost a no win suits the situation, if you get what I.
Mean, I know exactly what you're saying, but yeah, that's the only thing that can that can really stop them.
Yeah, I mean, I wonder how much it's kind of communities as well, that we we leave certain communities isolated and don't go near them and then then it just festers in there. How much do you think.
It's that well, more rural town to places where you know, more outback and whatever, more smaller town. Obviously you've got Kendall which William Tyrell went missing. Yeah, the sort of a man of pedophiles that were over there. That lots of pedopoles in that little small town which is the size of you know, a normal suburban Sydney. There's not a they're not resourced enough the police and they don't have enough power anymore, and that's what's getting people.
Yeah, well it sounds like it sounds like we need to have a full in a full kind of get together and make society look look at itself and make things a bit better. God bless you, Michael, and thanks very much for you to thank you. We seem to be living in a society where a whole lot of issues are kind of boiling over that the lid's been kept on all these issues for so long, they just boil over. What do you think knife crime and all of this sort of stuff. Give me hearing on one
three one eight seven three. There'll be an inquiry into the cosmetic surgery industry after a raft of botch beauty procedures everything from life persuction to breast implants and even butterlifts. For sure, that's bad enough in itself, but more broadly, it raises bigger questions about women and their body image. Indeed, a fair minded observer might conclude that the cosmetic surgery industry was built on making young women feel bad about
their looks. Why are women surrendering to the cosmetic industry's ideal of female beauty? Eva Cox, you're a proud feminist. Does it sadden you to see so many young women feeling the need to get cosmetic beauty procedures?
I'm not sure it saddened to me, or puzzle to me. I can't work out why, you know, because we're supposed to be feeling good about ourselves. You don't feel good about yourself if you want to sort of go to the cosmetic surgeon to sort of add bits to your tits or ad bits to your bottom, or you know, take away a bit from here and a bit from there. It sounds wasteful and cruel in a sense. I really wonder where the young women are coming from. Where that
becomes so important. I think one of the points about feminism was to get is less feeling that we had to sell our bodies for you know, for comfort or pleasure.
More on that later, because it's got to be worth noting that most of these cosmetic surgeons are male. So you've got men prescribing an ideal of female beauty.
Oh, they've been doing that forever. That's on the point about it is, you know that the idea is because you know, women had to sort of sell their parents and their capacities to men to sort of put up with the fact that the men have been supposed to take care of them for the rest of their lives or various other.
Ways of doing it.
So we really haven't got through the idea that there's a genuine male and female partnership which should depend on a range of relationship attraction things and not just on where your physical bumps stick out in particular ways or don't stick out enough, or whatever happens to me. I mean, I just am appalled about the level of women that sort of feel they've got to adjust their bodies, and they often not even because of men, but because of things in magazines or online or whatever it is.
What about social media? Is it fair to say social media plays a crucial role in heightening female body image issues.
I think social media does, and I gather. This is where these cosmetic surgeons or cosmetic doctors are not really surgents, constantly sort of advertised because that's where they get the women and sort of convince them that if they don't get their laby as trimmed, that they're going to be soon as unattractive.
I'm talking with feminist ever Cox. Either women seemingly get boob jobs, butteroglyphs and the rest to please men. So has feminism failed women or have they simply rejected feminism.
I don't know whether they've rejected feminism. I think what feminism gives a sort of mixed message to some of them in the way that they do it in so far as they feel they have the right to have the body that makes them feel good. I don't even know how fight's to do with the attraction of men or how fight is to do we're just looking good
for the general community at large. But certainly there is a sense where women feel one of the rights that feminism has imposed on them is the right to sort of make their body look whatever they think it ought to be. And I'm not sure they actually, as I say, responding to individual men, or even responding to individual cosmetic surgeons. It's just that sort of feeling that somehow or other we've got to look like some sort of plastic dog.
I think what feminism has done is fail to give women enough of a good sense of who they are that their body in toto is taken into account and not whether they stick out in an appropriate way in various sexual or even non sexual things.
Do you think young women especially see feminism as something that doesn't matter to them.
No, I think they get confused about it and say, feminism is about my freedom to do whatever I want, in the same way that there's a whole lot of politics at the moment that seems to be saying exactly that sort of stuff, that that sort of emphasis on self.
But feminism isn't it about freedom from mil oppression?
Well, I mean you can put that in, but I think feminism is basically about the recognition of all of those things that we tend to put down because that's what women do.
If you take a look at the world generally.
You know that care is actually undervalued and underpaid sort of. You know that the contributions we make are undervalued and underpaid. That it's what we look that seems to be important.
I've got to ask you, do women still need feminism either.
Yes, because we're still in a world that's entirely run by men. I mean, we wouldn't have made such quite a stuff up of a lot of the politics at the moment if we were sort of concerned about society and not concerned about bloody economics, which is something that was definitely is a discipline that seems to have a penis erected and amongst the you know, the various figures, because it doesn't seem to deal with emotions, it doesn't deal with relationships, it doesn't deal with society, it doesn't
deal with obligations, it doesn't deal with ethics. We're making a profit, and that's you know what blokes, And I mean I feel sorry for blokes because they very often get forced into the idea that if they're not making a profit, they're not a real man. So, I mean, we've still got huge inequalities about power, relationship, what's good and what's bad.
We got into the place where cosmetic beauty became the ideal.
It becomes a product because mesics makes us a product, and a product is saleable.
Thanks very much, Eva, God bless you and thanks for talking to us tonight.
It was a pleasure.
Australia's favorite Sunday night radio with Bill Cruise.
Hot Potato, Hot Potato, Hot Potato, Hot Potato, Hot Potato, Hot Potato, Potato, Potato, Potato Potato.
Everyone under six and their parents knows that song. And of course, former Yellow Wiggle Greg Page, who was the original lead singer and a founding member of the children's band Wiggles from nineteen ninety one to two thousand and six and again in twenty twelve, and he's currently playing FDR in the Australian production of the legendary musical Annie and I got Greg on the line. Hello Greg, Oh, Reverend Bill, how are you good? Mate? Thanks? Now you've
just come off stage after two shows today. It must be pretty grueling.
Oh look, it's not too bad compared to I mean, we do eight performances a week with Annie. Sometimes with the Wiggles we used to do up to twenty one performances a week, so it's like comparison. This is a breeze.
Now.
Did you ever guess back in ninety ninety one that that Wiggles would morph into a worldwide phenomenon.
No, we had no idea, and I guess that's the beauty of life. You never know what's around the corner waiting for you, and if you take opportunities. And I guess the opportunity that we saw was just the opportunity to create good quality children's entertainment. And it was really Anthony Field. The Blue Wiggle was his dream to do this, and you know, we just did it because we had a passion for it. It wasn't about global domination or
becoming big or successful. I think the greatest success you can have in life is if you go to work every day and do something you'd love. That's success. Everything else's cream on top.
Because a lot of us remember the Australian band the cock Coaches that served as the foundation for the Wiggles, didn't.
I yeah, I kind of did it. So Anthony and Jeff were in the Wiggles, sorry, in the Cockroaches, and I was a fan of the Cockroaches growing up listening to their music and I had to do work experience in year ten at school, I said I wanted to do work experience with the Cockroaches as a roadie, as a sound engineer and that's when I really first met Anthony and Jeff, and I stayed in touch with them.
I ended up doing early childhood teaching at university with Anthony, and that's where the genesis of the Wiggles came from, that connection to early childhood education and of course music.
So you must have been difficult for you to pass the Alabatton in twenty twelve.
Yeah, Look, I've done it before in two thousand and six when I was unwell and I had to leave the group back in two thousand and six, and the guys asked me back in twenty twelve because the current Yellow Wiggle at that time, Sam was leaving the group and they needed somebody to fill in for that year.
And as it turned out, not that I knew it at the time because I was only back for a few months, but Murray and Jeff decided to make twenty twelve their final year with the Wiggles as well, So it ended up working out well and I was back that year because then could actually have a whole year of shows as the original group of Wiggles, saying farewell for three of us at the same time.
Now I didn't know this, but you amassed the fourth largest collection of Elvis Presley memorabilia in the world. What's satinal about?
Well, look, I visited Graceland back in nineteen ninety nine when the Wiggles were on tour in the US, and I felt just a strong connection to Elvis's story. I mean, he was a very spiritual person and he questioned life, and he questioned why he was chosen to be the superstar that he was, but he had a lot of personal struggles as well, and I thought, you know, there's
a lot more to this legend than people realized. And I found it very deep, and I started collecting things that he had owned, so shirts, books, documents, cars, he's marriage certificate, furniture from his homes and I set up a museum in Parks where they have the annual Eldest Festival every year. So that museum has been there, it's called the King's Castle. It's been there since two thousand and eight. I think it was the first set it up there. So the collection a loan to the council
out there. So if people are ever passing through the central West of New South Wales, if they're going through Parks, calling to the King's Castle, it's at the information center there and see if you feel a connection to the story of the king as well.
And you're an im Yeah, yeah.
So I got an Order of Australia back in twenty ten, actually it was, And I mean that's one of the biggest honors I think I've received. You know, we've received a whole lot of ARIA awards, a whole lot of other accolades. But for me, that am says a lot because it's not just awarded by peers. Whereas you know music awards generally awarded by peers. This is awarded by people in the community who recognize your service to the
country in various ways. So to have that award and order bestowed upon me and the other members of the Wiggles was a huge honor indeed, and a big thrill.
And you were really lucky, won't you, because you had a heart attack in January twenty twenty and you're only one in twenty survive.
Yeah, that's right. Look, it's a terrible statistic that there's more than thirty two thousand cardiac arrests every year in Australia and only one in twenty survived. Five percent survived to go home to their family so I do count my blessing.
What's what's the lesson from that?
Well, look, the lesson is that bystanders really need to understand that when somebody is not responding, they need to call triple zero straight away, and if they're not breathing normally or at all, you start CPR and you use an AED as soon as possible, because you know, we can look up to our hearts as much as we can, but sometimes you just don't know what's going on inside it. And you know, for me, yes, I had heart disease,
but I didn't know that. So you know, you can think you're healthy, you can get all the tests done and not be aware that there's actually something inside that could kill you instantly. But for the grace of God, there were people around me who knew how to do CPR and knew how to access an AED and deliver that shock to save my life.
So you're an advocate for all that stuff.
Now, absolutely. Yeah. Look, I started a charity called Heart of the Nation back in twenty twenty, just a few months after I had the cardiac arrest. So for the past five years I've been out there advocating for people to learn how to do CPR, but also to know that if you have to do it, you don't need to be qualified or certified to have a go to try and save somebody's life, because any attempt at resuscitation has been no attempt. And now we're actually merging with
the Heart Foundation. My little charity Heart of the Nation is becoming a part of the National Heart Foundation, which is a huge honor.
Now come on, we get on too, Andy, how'd you get involved in that?
Well, look, it really came about another blessing, reven Bill. I had wanted to do musicals for some time, and I never knew how to get into them. And late last year I received a call from the producers of Annie asking me if I'd like to be in a musical. And at that point I didn't know what the musical was. But when they told me what it was, and when they told me who else was in it, look, I thought it's an opportunity too good to turn down. I just had to say yes and give it a go
and see if I'm any good at it. And hopefully the people that have been along so far think that I'm okay and I do a good job. But there is a lot of competition on stage for great voices and great talent.
I got to you've got an all star cast. Tell us who some of them?
Yeah, look, certainly do. The biggest star on stage is Anthony Warlow. I mean, this guy is a legend of musical theater, not only here in Australia, but he's performed on Broadway. He actually did Annie on Broadway back in twenty twelve, so I'm enjoying learning a lot from him. But we also had the Cries act playing Miss Hannigan. Anthony's wife, Amanda Lee Laverne is playing Grace Farrell, and
she's a Broadway performer. She spent twenty years in New York performing on Broadway, and so she's bringing what she knows about Broadway to Australia, which is really fascinating. It really is a great musical. There's so much to love about it.
Are you having much fun playing Fdr?
Yes?
I am.
And I got to tell you one reason why I took the job was because FDR was in a wheelchair. He had polio, and so I get to get pushed around on stage in a wheelchair all night while everybody else is dancing and singing and cavorting around. I just get pushed around and I don't have to worry about where I've got to be because somebody's pushing the wheelchair for me.
So what do you put down to Annie's enduring success over all these years?
Look, I think that really is the story of optimism and hope. Everybody knows that song The sun will come now to marrowl so you got to hang on till. It's a beautiful song. But message is that tomorrow nobody knows what's going to happen. Tomorrow. It might be raining and cloudy today, but tomorrow the sun will come out and everything looks different. And I think that's such a great message for anybody in life. I mean, we all get dealt bad cards from time to time in life,
and it's how we play those cards. And you know whether the sun is shining on us as we play those cards in life as to how things might turn out. I think if we always approach life with optimism, then you're always looking at a glass that's half full and not half empty.
Because you guys have got big shoes to fill, haven't you got Jill Perriman, Hayes Gordon, Kevin Johnston, Nancy Hayes.
Yeah, look, it did.
The show started here in Australia back and I think it was nineteen seventy nine or something like that, with those stars playing those characters, those much beloved characters. So yeah, we do have big shoes to fill. It's a show that a lot of people know, either through the movie Annie that came out in the eighties or through seeing it on stage over many years here in Australia. So it's well known and there is a lot of pressure
to deliver the goods. So you have to make sure that I have to make sure that you're on the money every night.
So it's an updated production, isn't it.
It is, yes, so people might have seen it before, but it is updated and hopefully people come along and think that the guy that's playing the president doesn't look too old, not outdated.
Now Annie's coming to Sydney's Capital Theater for a few more weeks and where to next.
Yeah, So we've been here in Sydney for a couple of months now, We've got three weeks left, so if you still want to come along and see this in Sydney, we'll be here until the twenty first of June. Then we go to Melbourne. I'm excited about that. So we're open in Melbourne at the Princess Theater on the tenth of July, and then after that we go to Brisbane
at the end of the year. So look out for Annie at those places, Melbourne and Brisbane because we really look forward to coming to these towns bringing this spectacular production to everybody there.
Greg Page, it is so great to talk to you tonight. Continued success, mate, continued success night, and.
You too, Reverend Bill.
The sun come out tomorrow. Bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow there'll be sun. Just thinking about tomorrow clears away the cobwebs and the sorrow.
Till there's none.
When I'm stuck with the day, let's.
Great, a Lord, I just think up my chick and and see the sun come out tomorrow.
So you gotta hang on till.
Tomorrow, come one.
To tom I love God to Mom. You're always a day way.
And I'm stuck with that day.
That's great.
And Lord, I just stick.
Out my cheese and bread and set.
The supper tomorrow. So you've got to hang on till come on.
Tomorrow to morn.
I love God Tomorrow.
You're always it.
You know.
They're both household names who have topped the charts and become two of the most recognizable country music artists in Australia. So next week Tanny Kernighan and Joseph Owen Jason Owen join us and also coming up after the News, Dr Tracy Westerman will be talking about a Change Direction campaign.
Imagine Welcome back to Sunday Night, cruise with you alreadio reverend will cruise.
On this first day of winter. I hope you're rugged up and warm. Welcome back, dear listener, a warm welcome back. This hour and with National Reconciliation Week winding down, we talk with one of Australia's leading Aboriginal psychologists, Dr Tracy Westerman about the launch of Change Direction, a powerful new short film which delivers the stark truth about Aboriginal suicide rates,
particularly among young people, which continue to rise. And in the last hour we talked to critically acclaimed author Hilda Hinton about her book The Opposite of Lonely, which deals with loneliness, social disconnection and the power of friendship. Last week there were tears and hope as families mourned the Bondai stabbing victims. On inquest's final day and last Friday, a teen was arrested in Melbourne over the Northland shopping
Center machette brawl. He had previously been found with horrifying images of himself posing with knives, buying machetes, and graphic video of the stabbing of another young mail. The fifteen year old was already on four counts of bail when he allegedly became involved in last Sunday's violent melay, sparked
by rival gang members looking at each other the wrong way. Meanwhile, Victorian retailers are clambering to remove prohibited machetes from store shelves as an Australian first ban on the sale of the weapons comes into effect. The ban was fast tracked last Monday after the terrifying weekend of knife crime and forced as of midday last Friday. The measures imposed an interim ban on the sale of cutting edge knives with
a blade longer than twenty centimeters, excluding kitchenware. So what do you think of the Victorian government's retail machete ban? Is it something we should be looking at in New South Wales, Queensland and the Act? How serious is knife and machete crime become in the community ban improve public safety.
As online access to these products remains unregulated, should the Commonwealth step in to regulate the sale of knives and machetes across Australia wine could a buyback scheme similar to the gun buy back be an effective way of removing machetes from the community. So your thoughts on a ban on machetes and cutting edge knives with a blade longer than twenty centimeters? Is it a good or a bad idea?
One three one eight seventy three. And as National Reconciliation Week winds down for twenty twenty five, we are reminded of Australia's shared history and our ongoing journey towards reconciliation. It's been a time to reflect, learn and take action, honoring the resilience, culture and achievements of Aboriginal and Torrestrate Islander peoples. The theme this year has been bridging Now to Next and has urged all Australians to unite in
advancing reconciliation. It has called on us to learn from the past, take action in the present, and build a more inclusive future. So what is National Reconciliation Week twenty twenty five meant for you. Have you participated in any events over the past week? How important has it been for you to reflect, learn and take action honoring the resilience, culture and achievements of Aboriginal and Torrestrade Island of People's over National Reconciliation Week. What would you like to see
happen to advance reconciliation into the future. What do we need to do to build a more inclusive future with our Indigenous brothers and sisters and in advancing reconciliation? What must we learn from the past and what about closing the gap between Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians Do we need to do more? Meanwhile, there have been community calls for answers after another death in custody of a twenty
four year old Aboriginal man in Alice Springs. The man was declared dead in hospital about seventy minutes after his restrained on the ground following an altercation with security guards at a local court Coals about one ten pm last Tuesday. So are we doing enough to end Aboriginal deaths in custody?
How?
How can we get these numbers down? And suicide rates among Aboriginal and Torrestrate Islander. That's First Nations people are substantially higher than those of non Indigenous Australians. What can be done to reduce deaths by suicide and suicide behavior among First Nations people? And does this need to be
a public health priority for all Australian governments? And last Monday May twenty six was National Sorry Day, which remembers and acknowledges the mistreatment of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who are forcibly removed from their families and communities, which we now know as the Stolen Generations. So what are we doing? Are we doing enough to help Stolen Generation survivors? And can we all play a part in
the healing process. Today, twenty three years after the Bringing Them Home Report and twelve years since the National Apology, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children are still over ten times more likely than non Indigenous children to be removed from their families. What needs to be done to turn this around? So come on, I'd like your thoughts on National Reconciliation Week twenty twenty five and its significance to you.
One three, one eight seven three No Canadian singer songwriter Alanis Morissette was born in Ottawa, Canada, on this day in nineteen seventy four. She's fifty one. Her third album, Jagged Little Pill nineteen ninety five, became the best selling debut album by a female artist, and in twenty oh two she made number one in Australia with the album under Rug Swept. Her biggest hit single was Ironic in nineteen ninety six.
Hey no man, turn none eating You are a lottery.
Day.
The next day it's a black fly you Shirney. It's pardon two minutes too late and it isn't an ironic, don't you think?
It's like right there on the guy by.
The ju jumped down back and.
It's big.
Used to play safe.
Was great fly he backed to stood gas, kiss this kids, goodbye.
He really is all them life to take that flight.
There's the pain branch down fet people listen to this size and did I runic judging It's like ready day it figure.
This is funny, Yeah, I damn tarlings ay and narrowing gas was funny. Why am I everylands gathering verything that was up.
In your bay?
Traffic jam when you're a.
Very late and no small game side.
On your cigarette break.
It's like ten thousand fool as well, yet it is a knife.
It's sweeting the mint my dreams and then.
Meeting his beautiful wife.
Sent it ironic, judge, think you a little too ironic? And yeah, really do sick.
It's not grady out.
Yeah, it's a funny way. It's a funny funny.
Tom, Welcome to the show.
Hello mate, how are you good? Reverend? I thought you'd be the most polite person to talk to about this subject. I come from a Polish background.
Yep.
I'm first generation Australian. I consider myself Australian. I respect Australia for what it was I was in. You know, I got to bicentenary coin in nineteen eighty eight. I still have a you know, all that sort of stuff.
You know.
I speak Polish as well as I speak you know, English or Australian, so my grit might be with We've been able to forgive Germany and now I'll just give you a little bit background. My grandfather was in labor camp. My grandmother was underground, uh Polish basically in US. We've recently found out she is an assassin of of of of German UH forces and stuff like that. So regardless
of this, uh, I'm very aware of it. But we're able to forgive Germany for the atrocities that have happened, uh in the Holocaust, the the you know, the millions of Jews, the millions of other innocent civilians that were murdered.
It was awful, just awful life. I know, we've got I've got some Polish refugee people in my congregation.
Yes, yeah, I mean, I mean I've been to my grandmother's house and her walls are still peppered with the bullet the bullets of Germans. Anyway, in in fifty years or I'm sorry, my mass might be a little bit wrong, seventy five years, we're able to acknowledge that Germany is now part of our society. We're able to re establish trade and commerce and all the normalities that would be you know, a functional in our in our modern society.
So my objective to the conversation about our own diigenous population is, in two hundred years, can we not build a bridge?
Can we?
There?
There are so there are so many, there are so many you know, olive branches in terms of our you know, you know, giving to you know, certain populations, and you know, and I totally acknowledge that, you know, you know, they may feel deeply disheartened by you know, the past that it has happened. But also with our education and our
and our you know, modern society. Can we can we not see that that's not an affliction of our modern day people like where we're here, a multiculture nation from many parts of the world.
You know.
Yes, But in a way, Tom, in a way we haven't come to grips with our history. We we we haven't that the original people we just moved in, shot them and poisoned them and pushed them into corners and things like that, you know, so that they have to tell their story of what it was like to be one of them.
Absolutely, and but.
I beg that this.
You know, we we hold many ceremonious occasions where you know, we have days that are entitled to indigenous rights, yes, and also we have you know, the appeals of our government.
When I say government, you know, I don't really you know, it's it's tough to see when you when you see Kevin Rudd saying I'm sorry, I see that as a political you know a little you know, a bit of a grab at a at a you know, at something just to make himself a little bit you know, appeal, you know, and and all that sort of stuff.
But well, what would make it real to What would make it real to you? That's what I want to ask, What would make it real to you?
Well, I think, well, we have many Aboriginal people that are that are you know, hold hold the flame high for you know, reconciliation and and and and moving forward. Although at the same time we have a lot of we have a lot of I guess societies in our out back areas like Burke I know that's that's that's one place which is is terrible for crime and you know, you know, yes, and it is largely affiliated with our
indigenous population. And why would that be Well, I would say it's it's it's about education.
It's well, why aren't we doing.
To me?
To me, it seems like, you know, their fathers, their mothers told them a story or or you know, and and they're following through with.
With that.
That element.
What do you mean their fathers or mothers told them a story mate?
Well, I mean like, okay, so.
So a narrative.
Perhaps they've becadd in a narrative to them. Okay, and I mean we're all affiliate. We all know what early education does to us. It either points us in one way or or another way. I mean there may be many stories, you know where you can see you know, disparage, you know, poor populations pointed to you know, whether it be you know, post nineteen eighty two New York, you
know Black American society. You know, given a whatever they whatether they say, a baby bonus, sorry for and that money is spent on TV instead of education, and the kids are put out on the street. And then you know, eighteen years later there's a massive spiking crime. You know, whether it be that or you know, you know Iraq, or or you know the stories that are told to those children. You know that the Americans or the you know,
the Greater West are horrible. You know, Like what I'm saying is that there should be a bridge that buy in two of the years should have been gapped. You know, we we all in the nineteen fifties, we all hated the Japanese for example, you know, for what they did to you know, Pearl Harbor, or what they what they did to you know, you know, they they penetrated Darwin and bombed us, you know, like, but we were able to build this bridge, right.
So well, let's get onto it. Tom, Let's get onto building this bridge. That's that's what I'm taking from what you've said, and it's so true. Let's build this bridge. How do we build the bridge? Everyone? I'd love to get your mess ideas on that on one three one eight seven three.
You're listening to Sunday Night crews.
Hi Rowan, Welcome to the show.
Thank you very much, Bill and Mike. Can I just say on in my sixties now? So yeah, I'm getting there. But I've worked all across the country in the in the middle of the desert and in the remote regions and everything, and I've worked with the most beautiful and the worst Harbor originals that you can imagine, and I loved them. I think it's just amazing people. And I think they misunderstood. But my point is, we built the city,
have a bridge, and we've always got this divide. We've got this like we've going to bridge the gap and everything else. So we've done all these things and we've thrown billions of dollars over the years to the Aboriginal cause and everything else. And you know what, in my opinion, mate, what we don't need is billions of dollars or I think we stand up money the originally meet in the middle and just talk and say, well, what do you want?
What do we want?
And yep, we've made bad mistakes in the laws and and we've you know, we we were good to you people, and we weren't really good to you know, but you also stabbed Captain Cook. So you know, well, we'll got we've got anything.
It's called truth. That's what it's trying to happen.
Yeah, and that's what I think needs to happen. Doesn't need money, It doesn't need politics, it doesn't need a promise that say sorry or we'll go to the country any It needs to meet in the middle and just go right, I will here are your chief and also not bad but and then we'll say what are you what do you want? Let's just live in harmony.
One of the most moving times in my life, or some of the most moving times were in the old
redfin where on the block. Ever in the winter's like this, they'd have a big fire, a big fire, and everybody had come out and sit around the fire, and you could sit around with the indigenous people and just talk and it'd be Bill and George or whatever whatever, whatever, and they'd talk, and the mothers had come and they'd all share and we'd talk and they'd talk about how the government people used to come and take their children
and they'd cry and all this. And it was the most moving time for me just to sit there and feel the pain and feel the suffering and feel the struggles that people had, and just to sit and share and just people to people. And I found so many of the Indigenous people had got above above the anger at what had happened, and we're reaching out and what
we've got to do is more of that. And that's one of the reasons I'm all supportive of the truth telling things that that governments are trying to set up now and just have a whole, big truth so it all comes out, the whole lot, The whole lot comes out, so everybody knows. That's my bit ron.
You will build it. You're still there.
Yeah, I'm still here.
You will.
You know.
I love of it. You're the most you're on the mostly sorry repeating, but the fact that you do, you have You've gone and sat at the block, and you've gone and sat.
At your place where your restaurant is in ordinary and you know you've done it all Bill, and you do it because you believe in your love.
And that's something I've learned over the years. I've heard a lot of people, so I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. And you're someone that has done this and done exactly what you said you're going to do? Why and mate, I don't. I will show something else in I don't have any religious belief and I don't. I'm not, you know, I'm just sort of I suppose an atheist, I guess. But I love everything you do because I know you're an amazing man publishing.
Thank you for calling you. Thank you. With National Reconciliation Week winding up for another year, I wanted to highlight a timely and powerful new short film, Change Direction, which delivers a stark truth Aboriginal suicide rates, particularly among young people, continue to rise on the and on the line to tell us about that. The film and the campaign that's built around it is one of Australia's leading Aboriginal psychologists. Dr Tracy Westerman, Hi, Tracy.
Oh, Thank you so much for having you on the show.
Oh, it's a pleasure, it really is. Now the campaign goes beyond awareness, isn't it. It's a call to action to support the Western and Julia Institute. Tell us about the institute and your role in it.
Yeah, okay, So I volunteer in Julia and I actually started the Junior Institute. I guess out of frustration with the lack of government action on Indigenous child suicides. And for the listeners that don't understand the context here is that in Western Australia, in my own home state, we've had four government inquiries into Indigenous suicides, mostly around the Kimbley, and when I started the scholarship, it was really looking
at those four inquiries. The last one was thirteen beautiful young Indigenous young people took their own lives from the Kimberley and when I read the reports, they all concluded pretty much the same thing, and that was that children were literally dying due to a lack of access to culturally competent services. And I guess on the complex treatment side, so I just went it looked like and fix this. I'm a psychologist, I'm an Indigenous one, and from a
remote community. I self funded the doctor Tracy Westerman Indigenous Psychology Scholarship Program, not really thinking, to be honest with all, that it was going to grow to the exists as I thought I'd probably fund one scholarship and that would be it, But Australia sort of had other ideas, and now we're actually funding sixty four, most of whom I've now graduated. So the Change Direction film, the great part of it is that it literally gives people something to do.
Often you see campaigns and people go, Okay, that's good.
What do we now do?
The institute is sorry, you'll figure.
So what does your director Change Direction campaign do?
And basically what it does is it takes people into a reality and I think for a lot of people, sadly they don't really understand relate to the experiences of Indigenous people in the country. So the film just very beautifully takes people on our journey. And so essentially what we're doing is really inviting Australia into what starts off
as a painful journey. But I guess most people who have seen the film, you don't really predict the change and so what's really lovely about it as you take people into that pain, but also get them to understand when you actually do have that help, that you can actually get out of it as well.
So in a way, the film follows the whole process.
Yeah. Absolutely, And to be honest, when I first watched it, I didn't predict what was coming because it's so clever and it's just so brilliantly done.
It's literally a.
Poem that goes into dark spaces and then literally you start reading it backwards and the actor is amazing for Drea Jackson, it just goes backwards and then things start to lighten. But what it's actually about, obviously, is about the answers being in culturally competent services and that's what we're always known there.
You wrote the poem featured in the film, so.
Tell us about No, I didn't write it, which I'd love to take credit for a beautiful pode of fearer who's done.
Tell us a bit about it.
Yeah, So essentially what it does is it goes into the beautiful actor to Drea Jackson, who essentially goes into some dark places and says, look, my country tells me that I'm invisible. And it's very negative and it actually explains I guess what it's like to feel that way, to feel as if there's no hope, and then suddenly halfway through its switches and it literally goes backwards into hope and light and that there are people that care
and I can actually change this in me. And so it really is I guess a visceral experience bill that you go into this feeling of what it would feel like and then literally it changes to go backwards and you feel like there is actually hope at the end of it, which.
Is just very brilliant.
Actually.
So where was the film shot.
I think it was in Adelaide. That was done by the wonderful Warwick the Wanton, who of course you know, has become incredibly famous and of course you know, from a remote community himself, so he had a passion to do something about indigenous suicides. And then Jackson Long, who was the creative person behind it, literally spent twenty months banging down doors. So he's just been incredible in terms
of his will to do something about it. And then I sort of came along when they heard of my work because they were looking at someone like an organization to donate whatever money they raised from it.
And it became.
Very old, it became very obvious that there was a really good synergy there in terms of getting people something very clear that they could do.
Now, what statistics can you provide us about the unacceptable rates of Indigenous suicide.
Yeah, it's kind of heartbreaking. And I guess the thing that you know is the statistic that probably separates arguably Australia from all other developed countries is the age at which our young people are take in their lives. So it's really for Indigenous children, we have a six times the likelihood of dying by suicide and non Indigenous children. And a statistic that's probably the most sobering and heartbreaking is that every time an Indigenous child dies in this country,
forty percent of them will do so by suicide. And I've said this many times. Children's suicide just does not belong in a center.
Age.
Yeah, it's kind of I guess when you're getting into those teenage years, you're sort of getting I mean, obviously heartbreaking. We we've had suicides of children as young as ten, but when you're getting in those teenage years around thirteen to fifteen, then the statistics get even worse. So we are looking at that you know that particularly particular vulnerability around the teenage years.
Traca, What do you want Australians to do when they see the film or visit the website? What outcomes are you looking for?
Oh, it's a really easy one. I mean, this is probably the easiest from campaign in that we are already taking care of this. We put a hand up. We don't have any federal government funding. I volunteer every single day. I'll never take awage from Juliette. They've registered charity. We've had our students graduate at eighty percent compared to twenty percent for heavily funded universities. And they're coming from our springs,
the Kimberly, They're coming from the highest risk communities. Seventy percent of them first in their families to go to university. So we're literally making people who would never have had hope in their lives become psychologists. So it's an incredible program. And so literally all you have to do is donate every dollars tax deductible, and we're putting our hands up for it. It seemed quite simply we are saying we've got this. We're happy to take on the most complex
issues in Australia. You just literally have to get behind us and know that every single dollar goes to putting another indigenous psychologists in the remote community.
So what can we do, Tracy, as every day Australian, it's not just as part of Reconciliation Week, but throughout the year. What can we do to make a difference on this issue?
Yeah, I guess the answer to that is that just for real public attention tool, we find it really difficult and it's great to be on shows like this, we find it really difficult for anyone to pay attention to this crisis. And as someone who spent my life on this, you know, it is actually really difficult to get media
to pay attention to this. And of course we rely on the media to explain to people while we have such heartbreaking rates of suicide and and to get that message out that these are Australia's children and we should all be affected by the equally, and to just pay attention and just just get involved.
Really, but you've got to do a bit more than just raise a winness, haven't you, Because White Ribbon Campaign and all of those try to do that as well. You've got to get people to do something as well, haven't you.
Yeah, And I guess that's where the Jilliar Institute comes in. That I've had, you know, lots so do lots of public presentations, and so many people have come up to me and said just that that we've never known what to do, and this actually gives us something to do that we can donate money, and we know that this is actually going to changing generational trauma, generational risk in our highest risk communities, like our springs, you know, like Derby,
like you know, Mount Eyes a Plate. We've got psychologists coming from those communities who ultimately will stay there, and we're skills building from the ground up. So this is really going to achieve massive change, or it already is achieving massive change in the country.
So it kind of alignes with and complements existing government mental health programs.
Yeah, it does. However, you know, Julia is kind of not beyond is outside of government. We have no government funding for what we do, and I think that's actually a good thing because we are truly grassed for its activism. We are truly about getting business as usual isn't solving this crisis. So what we need to do, we're quite on orthodox we, for example, students pick students who regularly reject students that have distinctions, So I don't pick students
who will get there anyway. I'll pick students based on how many more gaps they have to close. So we're getting the most disadvantaged. But what that means is that likeels never leave right.
Yes, so they yeah.
So if any of our listeners would like to know more, or I view the film change Direction, what should they do?
They just get onto www dot change direction literally and you can see that there. You can also, you know, if we would be massively grateful if people would donate some of their dollars, and bearing in mind that no public donations, one hundred percent of public donations go directly to our scholarship program. Nothing goes on paying you know,
you know, admin or salaries. That's why I work for free, so to make sure that every cent goes directly into getting another Indigenous psychologist in a remote community.
Now, before I let you go, how happy if you've been with the way National Reconcilient Reconciliation Week has gone in general?
Look interesting enough. I was interviewed a couple of weeks ago on ABC, and I said, I think had without getting into the politic will have to get into the politics of I guess the election for a lot of Aboriginal people has been almost like a moral victory, and because we're sort of heading down a path of you know, a lot of negativity in terms of Indigenous issues, particularly after the referendum, and I think a lot of Australians probably you know, probably had really be honest, not a
really good sense of what they're no vide actually meant. And so I think, you know, the rejection of what dare I say, the right wing rash wreck around, you know, people being really negative about welcome to country, and you know,
the attacks on Indigenous organizations and so forth. Certainly the Indigenous people that I interact with all day every day, and there's thousands of them than I do, there's been a sense of people can breathe now, and I think now, I pray would have given a different answer four weeks ago. But I think, you know the fact that Australia has repudiated you know that real negative in negativity and right wing approach to Indigenous issues has certainly helped significantly.
One of Australia's leading Aboriginal psychologists, Dr Tracy Westerman, thanks so much and God bless you, Tracy. God Bill grus on Sunday Night, Gary, Welcome to the show.
Hey, doing good.
About the knife crime. I just it's out of control, mate, Like I'm nearly sixty. In the eighties, when I was a kid, there was none of this.
I was looking after homeless kids in the eighties, Gary, and lots of them had knives, yeah, but there wasn't.
The stabbings like you see today on the news. Mate. There's one every day sometimes too. That didn't happen. And we used to fight on the streets, mate, and there was a fight with fists, you know what I mean, or a gang against the gang. Now, no one was running around with machetes. It didn't happen. You might have had one here and there, someone getting stabbed up across
or something like that, but it's not right now. The young gangs, every gang, every gang, someone's got a knife on them, you know what I mean.
Do you see any gangs, Yeah, you see them all the time.
But there never used to be a lot of gangs. There wasn't a lot of gangs in the eighties. You had the sharpies and that and the skinheads in the sixties and the seventies. Yeah, but the eighties and the nineties there was there wasn't many gangs, not like there is now. And a lot of it's to do with Molti culturalism.
Mate.
You've got the Islanders, they've got their gangs, nothing against it, they want to have them. You've got the Lebanese, they've got their gangs. You got the Ossies, everyone's got a gang.
You had the Irish and they had their gangs. You had the Catholics, the Anglicans.
Yeah, but they in what they say on TV, let's get a gang, you know, like the crips and the bloods and stuff like that. It's just ridiculous and there's no penalty for nothing.
Anything, So what would you do about it?
The first thing you have to do is build a couple of jails so you could fit the people in, because people are just getting.
Off and how does that, how does that stop it? How does that stop it happening?
It gets them off the street for starters.
And but then, like from your from your descriptions, won't there just be more? Don't they be followed up by other people?
Not if the penalties are harsh, Mate, the penalty should be straight away. You got a knife on you on the street. Why you got a knife on you on the street? Why are you cane machette? Two years? You got two years for that. Do you want to stab someone on the street, it's five. Do you want to kill someone on the street it's twenty.
But well, if if strong, if strong penalties work, why are there the shooting murders that go on in Sydney today because they get really strong penalties, but they still shoot one another.
Yeah, but you're at the highest level there with the shooting and what do you mean what do you mean at the highest level? Well, that's the highest that where you can be shooting someone to death, you know what I mean? It's different to stabbing someone in the leg or in the arm. They stab.
You think you think if they stab someone, it's not as bad as shooting someone.
Well, mate, when you shoot someone ten times and in the head like they did the other day and you're dead, it's different if you stab someone in the leg, of the arm or in a spot that's not a bat like that.
So they should get so they should get ten years. The the the the stabbers, But what about the.
Shooters may you shoot someone? You should be getting life, mate. Well they do about it.
They do, but it still doesn't get them.
It doesn't. They get fifteen years and they're back on the street again. The system's a joke. The judges don't have any any I won't say it, but they don't know that. They're too scared to put anyone away, mate, and they're not going to do it. They should eeck the judges.
One of the saddest days of my life has been to receive this email from A Michael and it goes the only thing the English got wrong was they didn't succeed in eliminating every single one of them. What a better place Australia would be. What do you think of that? What do you think of that? I'd love to get your comments on that. Eliminate The only thing the English got wrong was not eliminating the lot love to get your comments on that. One three one eight seven three.
Imagine people, welcome back to Sunday night. Cruise with you already a reverend Bill Cruise.
A big warm welcome back on this cold winter night. And as you know, it's the bewitching hour. So we've got every line into this building comes to this microphone so I can talk to you. Do you want to talk to me? I'd love to talk to you. And you know the number here, it's one three, one eight seven three and coming up. We talked to critically acclaimed author Hilda Hinton about her book The Opposite of Lonely, which deals with loneliness, social disconnection and the power of friendship.
Last week, there were tears and hope as families mourned the Bondai stabbing victims on inquest's final day, and last Friday, a teen was arrested in Melbourne over the Northland shopping center machette brawl. He had previously been found with horrifying images of himself posing with knives, buying machetes, and graphic video of the stabbing of another young male. The fifteen year old was already on four counts of bail when he allegedly became involved in last Sunday's violent melay, sparked
by rival gang members looking at each other the wrong way. Meanwhile, Victorian retailers are clambering to remove prohibited machetes from store shelves as an Australian first ban on the sale of the weapons comes into effect. The ban was fast tracked last Monday after the terrifying weekend of knife crime and forced as of midday last Friday. The measures imposed an interim ban on the sale of cutting edge knives with
a blade longer than twenty centimeters, excluding kitchenware. So what do you think of the Victorian government's retail machete ban? Is it something we should be looking at in New South Wales, Queensland and the Act? How serious is knife and machete crime become in the community? Will this ban improve public safety? As online access to these products remains unregulated? Should the Commonwealth step in to regulate the sale of
knives and machetes across Australia wide? Could a buyback scheme similar to the gun buy back be an effective way of removing machetes from the community. So your thoughts on a ban on machetes and cutting edge knives with a blade longer than twenty centimeters? Is it a good or a bad idea? One three one eight seventy three. And as National Reconciliation Week winds down for twenty twenty five, we are reminded of Australia's shared history and our ongoing
journey towards reconciliation. It's been a time to reflect, learn and take action honoring the resilience, culture and achievements of Aboriginal and Torrestrate Islander peoples. The theme this year has been bridging now to next and deserge all Australians to unite in advancing reconciliation. It has called on us to learn from the past, take action in the present, and build a more inclusive future. So what is National Reconciliation Week twenty twenty five meant for you? Have you participated
in any events over the past week. How important has it been for you to reflect, learn and take action honoring the resilience, culture and achievements of Aboriginal and Torrestrade Island of people's over National Reconciliation Week. What would you like to see happen to advance reconciliation into the future. What do we need to do to build a more inclusive future with our Indigenous brothers and sisters and in
advancing reconciliation? What must we learn from the past and what about closing the gap between Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians Do we need to do more? Meanwhile, there have been community calls for answers after another death in custody of a twenty four year old Aboriginal man in Alice Springs. The man was declared dead in hospital about seventy minutes after he was restrained on the ground following an altercation with security guards at a local court Coals about one
ten pm last Tuesday. So are we doing enough to end Aboriginal deaths in custody? How? How can we get these numbers down? And suicide rates among Aboriginal and Torrestrate Islander that's First Nations people are substantially higher than those of non Indigenous Australians. What can be done to reduce deaths by suicide and suicide behavior among First Nations people? And does this need to be a public health priority
for all Australian governments? And last Monday May twenty six was National Sorry Day which remembers and acknowledges the mistreatment of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people who are forcibly removed from their families and communities, which we now know as the Stolen Generations. So what are we doing? Are we doing enough to help Stolen Generation survivors? And can
we all play a part in the healing process. Today, twenty three years after the Bringing Them Home Report and twelve years since the National Apology, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children are still over ten times more likely than non Indigenous children to be removed from their families. What needs to be done to turn this around? So come on, I'd like your thoughts on National Reconciliation Week twenty twenty five and its significance to you. One three one eight
seven three. US lyricist Cynthia Whale died aged eighty two on this day in twenty twenty three. She wrote many many hit songs together with a husband, Barry Man, including We've got to get out of this place on Broadway. Make your own kind of music. You're my soul and inspiration. He's so shy here you come again and you've lost that love and feeling.
You know who close as any more? When I kiss you'll leave.
There's no tenderness like reop in your fante.
You're trying hard, nothing soul, but oh there's he come up. If your fi fragach go yeahead. If your started to the size still I did it makes me? Yes? You hot frogging at you want.
Me jeez, you can't sad, but now it's gone.
Oh baby, baby, I'll get down all my knees, will you.
If you don't move A lady love me that you used to do with the.
We had abou fello, I love your fad every day, No a pleasing them.
It's a case.
La the three. Some songs are just timeless, aren't they Absolutely timeless? You get transported into a world that's just timeless. Michael, Welcome to the show.
Hello, Hello, how are you deceiving?
Good? Thank you?
I was listening earlier to that chap Gary. I think it was he was speaking about the judges. I tend to agree with him that the sentences don't sit the crime in this country, and that people get off again and again and again, and they get bail and then they commit another crime. It's just ridiculous. I think if the judges don't have the spine to give the correct.
Sentences, how much the correct sentence, they should be.
Put out and someone should be put in that can do it.
What do you mean, see, what do you mean what are correct sentences?
Well, every day you're hearing about the public crying out that things are happening, and no one's getting anything done to them. The charges aren't being laid.
What do you mean they're not being done? What do you mean they're not The courts are full of people.
Yeah, I know, but nothing happens. Half the people just get let off or get bail, or they get community.
Do you really believe that the jails are full, Michael, Yeah, I.
Know the jails are full, but there could be a lot more people in jail, but they don't put them in. You just have to speak to all the people. Everyone, people getting murdered, people getting led off.
So people are murdered and nothing happens.
A lot of times nothing happened.
What do you mean nothing happens. They don't go to prison.
They'll get a little sentence of five years.
Do you what for murder? Someone will get five years for murder.
It happens. All that or they get off is mental health? Well you've got to do.
Isn't mantel health a realistic thing?
It's actually a raught because everyone why if they say it, they'll get off. Sure, there's people with Michael.
You can't be that dumb, No, you can't be.
That dumb, Reverence. Surely, if you watch a sixty minutes. Yes, there's someone.
Saying, I idea with the courts almost every day.
I know that there's so many people that get let off all the time. How does how does the kid that's got eighty chargers get arrested and then he gets out on bail.
That's a problem for juvenile justice.
But that's ridiculous.
Why why, yeah, why why don't we treat to look after our children properly? Why don't we do proper things so that they don't end up in trouble?
But what about the adults? Someone basses someone to death and they say, oh, it's man's laughter. Who will get four years?
Four years?
They give them seven, but they do four? Why is they seven? If it's not seven, Why don't they tell the truth and say it's four years?
Like you and I, we both agree that the justice system needs looking at. Yes, we both agree. Well why is it broken, Michael?
Because the judges don't have a spine to put the people away from what they've done.
Why don't the judges Why don't no ask me, why don't the judges have the spine? Do you tell me? You tell me? Now you're the one going saying all these weak judges How are they weak?
Do just have them look at the sentences that they're giving and it's not rocket science?
Well not? Why are the judges? Why are they? Why are the judges like that? If you think they're too weak? Why do you think they're too.
Weak because the sentences are giving and don't match the crimes?
What encourages them to be weak?
How would I know they should be sacked?
Well, why aren't they sacked? Michael? Why aren't they sacked? You told me?
Listen to listen to Mark Levy Ray Hadley. They go on about it all day, every day, about these judges letting off pedophiles, letting off criminals. It's absolutely a joke. It's absolutely a joke. If you speak to all the victims of crime and say to them, are you happy with the sentence? You're going to get it, get one percent that says they're happy, in ninety nine percent that say they aren't. It happens every day every day. There's no penalty.
Well, how come how come I deal with people who are in jail because they shouldn't be there?
How would I know?
Well, that's what I mean, That's what I mean. If you've got there, if you've got a system like like like the system is working as best it can not really, so what would you do? Okay, what would be the maximum penalty?
I believe they don't put the people in jail because they can't afford it, and there's no room. The jails are packed, they're overcrowded and there's no room.
And why are they packed? Why are they packed?
Well, so if there's people are breaking the law, if you break the law, you go to jail. That's what happens. But in this country you don't a lot of the times, they just get bail, or they'll get a community service order where although it's to be able to stay at home, what's that you stay at home? And what's TV? And that's your sentence, it's not. There's no deterrent, there's no deterrent.
So do you feel safe in the world?
No, I don't not at all. And a lot of people don't feel safe, I guarantee.
Why that? Why? Actually crime's going down? It is going down, yes, oh.
Yes, yes it is. There's a stabbing on the news nearly every day, yes, nearly every day. And do you think all that?
Do you know what it was like here in the thirties.
We're not talking about the thirties, no, but we're talking.
But people are saying now there used to be razor gangs in the thirties around Sydney who attacked one another with razors.
Yeah, and I bet you when they got caught, they went to jail and they did hard.
And nothing stopped in there.
But that didn't stay in They're watching TV and playing tennis. And you know, I made the jails need to be hardened up. You need to take out the TV straight away. There's no TV, there's no text.
So what do people do in the jail? What would they do in the prison? What would they do?
Work?
Just stare at the door?
Work?
No, they should be working.
Doing what breaking rock, taking right slave shammers, taking.
Out taken out of a day and cleaning up the graffiti around the city rather than the taxpayers paying forty million dollars to remove the graffiti. It's absolutely ridiculous. While while the criminals sit in jail watching TV, there's drugs in jail. They've got that if they want that, they can network with other criminals when they come.
Out, So what's the point of putting them in jail?
Then they need to work and be rehabilitated, and the sentences need to be stiff enough as deterrent. If you're carrying a knife on the streets and you get caught and you know you're going to go to jail for two.
Years, doesn't stop yet, it doesn't stop it. Massiveness doesn't stop people.
But you don't know that, because so do we can.
Look, we've got evidence that shows that.
No, I don't believe that. Okay, if you stab someone on the street and you get ten years to jail, there's not going to be many people willing to stab someone knowing they're going to use it, lose a decade of their.
Life, and that person will come out a better criminal. And he went in. God bless you, Michael. Thanks very much for your call. Come on, I gave him a hard time, right, do you agree with Michael or not? Give me a ring? One three one eight seven three.
You're with the radio Reverend Bill Cruise.
Look, I've just got this message. Hi Bill. I lost my dear mom on twenty fourth of May. She was ninety one. She had eleven children. We'll be burying her on Wednesday. Can you possibly give mam a prayer? Her name was Marie. Well, let's say ninety one eleven children. God knows how many grandchildren and great grandchildren. Dearest God, Dearest God, your arms are open for Marae. Welcome her in and may she live within the warmth and the
radius and the joy of your smile. May she find peace, and may her family find peace and know that she is loving in the loving care with you in Jesus' name. Amen, Chris, Welcome to the show mate.
Hello, Reverend, how are you good?
Chris?
I was just listening to your comment about I was just about suicized in custody and what to do about about that issue. And it's definitely a hard on al depth in custody, I should say. I guess, well, I'm indigenous myself, and I think that, but I've probably had an easier path than maybe a lot of people, especially in the you know, in the regional communities or you know,
in rough city areas or whatnot. But I just think that, you know, there should be some positivity around maybe being able to that you can get yourself out of that sort of bad life and have self determination and you know, have a go. And I don't know if that message is getting through to you know, to the indigenous community out there, and that it's sort of they just get stuck in the cycle.
Yes, how is life with you, Chris.
Oh fantastic. Yeah, what do you do with a bit of a backt I'm an electrician. Yeah, I've been doing FIFO, which I did as a mature age apprentice. I started at thirty and now forty one. Yeah, and it's been very good to me and my family. And well that's how I try and raise my daughters is just that you know, you can become anything you want in life if you work hard, and.
Yes, she can give to go.
You know, like this is Australias, the greatest country in the world. I think probably have a little bit of bias as you probably do as well if you see what else is going on around the world, Like we've got it pretty good here, and I think there's just so many opportunities out there if if you're shown that sort of direction.
You know.
A little backstory. I was adopted as a child born in the eighties SOT four, and my birth mother sort of said, you know at the time, maybe being indigenous. I never knew I was indigenous until I turned eighteen and finally met my sort of birth family, so that's you know, I've had a bit of a different path, but that probably goes you're talking about stolen generation. I think because she was adopted out as well, and I think my grandmother she was part of that stolen generation.
So my oldest daughter she moved down to orang John in Brisbane and she she works in so work in indigenous communities, and she said it was real eye opening for her just seeing, you know, how people are living out there.
So I mean, it's a hard it's a hard Has it been harder for you because you're indigenous? Has it been harder or you didn't know so it didn't happen, Well.
It was.
What was probably hard about finding out at the time was that I guess my father, you know, white Austraian. That's fine. In my mum's Filipino. So I've had a
quite diverse upbringing. But he was actually quite racist to Originals, you know, and the things some of the things he said was like, oh, you know, I work hard, and all my bloody tax dollars goes to pay you know, Center Link for Aboriginals and all this sort of Ariginals and all this sort of stuff, and then when I found out it was a bit of and me and him had words about it, and I was just said,
I'm sick of hearing about it. You know, like, you know, your tax money's going somewhere, it will get the government will spend it on something. Doesn't it's not necessarily that, you know, like get over it. But I mean that's probably maybe a feeling that a lot of people have, I guess, but maybe because of they can't see maybe the money is wasted. I don't know, you know, I'm not I don't really know what the government does with everything.
But well, I guess back to my point, I just think that there is so much opportunity if you can get that message out, and you probably do have to start with the kids.
You know.
Another side story I was, I was driving back from Adelaide back to Brisbane and I drove through a.
Couple of the little.
Out back towns out there, and you know, it's two o'clock in the morning and there's little indigenous kids, probably well eight years old, six years old, just running around in the park, no no adults to be seen.
You know, it's.
You know, it's I probably don't want to go home. I don't know what's that, you know what I mean, it's that's probably why the message he isn't getting through them that they can make something of themselves.
They can, they can make so right something. When you go home, give your kids a big kiss from me. Mate, God bless yare and you're God bless share and I'm so pleased you wrung thank you. Critically acclaimed author Hilda Hinton has written three novels, and they all explore topics around mental health, loneliness, social disconnection, and the power of friendship. Her new book is the Opposite of Lonely and I've got Hilda on the line. Hi Hilda, Hello Bill, Thank
you for having me. Now, Gosh, you work as a prison officer by day, so you must see firsthand the impacts of social disconnection and loneliness.
Yes, I do.
I think.
I think we automatically in society have these sort of lock them up mentality and I think that's simplified. And you know, these are people that have often had trauma or sort of experiences that we can't imagine and find themselves where they are for a number of reasons, and of course what they miss, I think is a sense of community that we take for granted.
Now, what about your own lived experiences, because that's in form doesn't it your empathy for the characters in your book?
Yeah, I was the daughter of a mentally unwell woman and she did her best to look after us kids as best she could, but she had her demons in her battle. And being exposed so young, I guess gave me an understanding that not everybody is the same. And also it can isolate you a little bit from your friends because if they're not going through the same thing, then you feel a bit disconnected.
And some of the things they go through their heroic, aren't they the way they do?
Yeah, that's right. And you know there's such good work done in this space and has been for many years. And you know there's a lot of people can't unsee some things, and I certainly I certainly respect anybody that works in that industry.
So you were a second hand book dealer and read in your spare times, and so was that what gave you the courage to write your first novel?
Well, it certainly was a great apprenticeship. Bill, I was twenty years I did that with my dad. We sort of Yeah, lived a treasure hunt really just going around getting books and had our shops. And I think it was a really good apprenticeship because I read six books a week, read all sorts of genres, because I had to understand every section in the shop to be able
to serve as customers. And by the time I came to well, by the time I finally made the decision that was time to write a book, I think it helped me in very good stead.
Like the first novel you wrote Outness of Unsaid Things, that's almost Dylan esque, you know, it made a number of best seller lists. That credit called claim must have been very gratifying.
Yet it certainly came out of the blue. I wasn't expecting it. You know, you're sort of bright for yourself
in a way. And I think with that book, it touched a lot of people because like my own life, there was a there was a you know, sort of autobiographical thread through it, and a lot of people got in touch and said that they felt less alone after reading that because they were also children of somebody who had a mental illness or family of And I think now that we're talking about it more, I think it might be time to put on the table that, you know,
let's offer some support for the people around and the families around people suffering mental health issues, because everybody goes on that journey with the individual.
Now, tell us about your second novel, as Solitary Walk on the Moon.
Yeah, yeah, Well Evelyn. Evelyn was my favorite character that I've written, actually, and she sort of socially self isolated herself and doesn't know how to connect with people and chops and changes her life and packs up and moves when she gets a bit close to people. But you know, it's also quite jaunty and uplifting, and it's about finding family when you don't have a biological one.
And in your new book, The Opposite a Lonely, how have you tried to inspire your readers in what in that way?
Well, this book's about friendship. It's about Yeah, it's about when you sort of find yourself a bit isolated because you've either had a breakup, you've had debts in your family, and you've sort of you've become a bit of a shut in when you go through these things. And the beauty of friendship is that somebody just comes into your life and gives you confidence and allows you to take
life risks and supports you and uplifts you. And of course sometimes sometimes these friends aren't always what they've seen. But at the same time, friend well, sometimes people are really good for your life, but you may not see what they're really like. And you know, there can be I think all of us have gone through the loss of a friend or some sort of form of betrayal.
So I want to just explore the irony of sort of losing a friend when that friend is the very person that actually lifted you up to the point where you can cope with the loss.
We're really complex people, aren't we We are we are.
Yeah, we are, and I just I mean, most of us are really lovely and consider it, and sometimes people aren't, and that's quite difficult to deal with.
So how do you see the impact alone inness on our health and well being?
Well, it's proven, you know, it has the same sort of medical effect as bad diet obesity. There's a lot of articles about this. The Japanese have their own language around loneliness, you know, where you're old young, they have Yeah, they've got so many I wish I could remember them.
They're quite hard to pronounce. But the older people have a different loneliness to younger people, and they have different words, and I just think, you know, I just think it's important to talk about this stuff, especially as we're moving to self serve checkouts. Everything's done by tap and go,
everything gets delivered. And we're not going out as much as we used to, and we're not talking to neighbors and strangers and having those casual conversations that really are an important fabric of our life.
And kids aren't playing in the streets anymore.
No, they're not.
You know, you don't hear them out on the street kicking the ball and saying car, you know when a car is coming. It's very sad. There's a house over the road from me and a family moved in there about a year ago, and I haven't I haven't seen the kids.
So you've got over and knocked on the door.
Well no, I mean I've sort of waved, you know, when they were putting out Halloween decorations. But there wasn't a there wasn't a desire on the other end to engage. And that's okay.
But we like that now, aren't we. You know, I keep telling people to go out and sail over to their neighbors and they go, maybe the neighbors don't want to talk to me.
Yeah.
Well, ironically, during COVID, our street became very friendly. We all put our chair out in our driveway and called out to each other and spoke to each.
From across the world followed up it has it has.
I live in a great street. We all know each other's names. We all keep an eye on each other's houses. It's really sweet. And you know we're missing that as we become a bit more shut in. I don't know why kids aren't on the street more. I think screens. I guess parental fear of you know, danger. But I'd love to a bit more and hear more because it's such a beautiful sound.
The kid I used to wander around everywhere, you know, I come home at nine. Nowadays you've got these helicopter parents everywhere, haven't you.
That's right.
Yeah, And it's a real shame. And you know this this sort of school refusal, and you know I don't. It's yeah, it's really sad. And I think the mental health of our young people is clearly something that needs work.
Now. In your book, you look at the importance of showing strangers compassion and empathy.
Yeah, well, it's a part of life, isn't it. You know, I don't understand why people aren't lending a hand more to people they don't know. It's a great way to meet people. It's also human nature, I think to assist, you know, it's certainly my natural response. Yeah, and I really I value the strangers that I've met that have become friends, and I certainly value when somebody.
Lends me a hand because if you don't go out and say loo, you don't have the opportunity of that happening, do you.
That's right, that's right, And that's how it starts. It starts with looking people in the eye, you know, smiling, imagine, and you also.
Look at the power of intimacy and friendship how important.
Yes, well it's I think friendships have an intimacy that's sort of different from what you have with your partner, because when you meet a friend, you just sort of give them everything about you, all all your secrets, all everything about you just comes out and you just give it all over it sort of really quickly, whereas when you meet a partner, you're sort of trying to show your best side.
You know, and until it all falls away, that's right.
Yeah, So I think the intimacy of friendship with that, with that complete giving of yourself is a unique to friendship and.
B it's just so important.
We're just such communal creatures.
So what would you like people to take away from the opposite a lonely.
I guess just be aware of the people around you, Be aware of family members, be aware of changes in behavior, ask questions. You know, people don't volunteer information, show an interest, and same with neighbors and strangers. And you know, giving a smile costs nothing. And if people don't respond and look at you like your bonkers, well that's okay. Just smile at the next person because nine times out of
ten you're going to get a lovely response. And yeah, we're a community and we just need to work together as humans to get through, especially in these sort of difficult worldly times.
So what's next for Hilden? You're Hilton, Well, I was going.
To have a big rest bill and take a year off writing, but I've had an idea.
And so you're a bit of blessing of answer.
Yeah, well the stories find me, I think, and yeah, so yeah, the next one is going to be sort of multi generational, because I think I really like young people, you know, sort of young adults. I think I think they're much more caring and giving, and they talk about their feelings more. They're open, and I think people think that they're entitled, whereas I don't think they're entitled. I think they're just standing up for what they believe in. And I really quite like them. And so I want
to have some younger people interacting with older family. And as we watch the new guard.
Come through Hilda hinton new novel, The Opposite are Lonely. Thanks for your time tonight, goblish him, thank.
You, thank you Bill, thank you.
MS ship ship with those blue with those blues records. Don't fraid I'm afraid this rob this Rover ross over, Ross over.
If I.
Be the jazz ro.
Go down my feet all the time, all time street, Well, let's be all grandma listening, all grandma to get out and get out. Really want to thank you. I really want to thank my listener again again and until they are sad said good knocks
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