Historical child abuse is any type of abuse that occurred in the past, but typically relates to abuse during a person's childhood or adolescent. It's got long lasting negative effects on their emotional, psychological, and physical wellbeing. Abuse can take a variety of forms, including sexual, emotional, and physical abuse, as well as neglect. On the line to discuss this important topic is Peter Karp, who's a lawyer dealing with survivor victims of historical child abuse.
Hi, Peter, Oh, good evening, Reverend Bill, how are you good mate? Now?
How did you come get involved in this?
Well? A number of decades ago. Now, I did specialize in the area of duty of care. And a friend of mine, who did trade union work for trade unions ringing me up and said he had this lady in his prayer group whose son was abused by a religious leader and could I help because he'd already fathers statement of claiming the Supreme Court, which became the first one ever in New South Wales. And I thought, well, I
better come and help him. And as I did that, I realized this is a good area to be in because being a Christian of Jesus follower, I believe in doing good to change the dad, you see, and I could see there was a lot of room for improvement in the legal process for survivor victims of historical.
Abuse, because for survivors and victims, often it takes years before it comes out, isn't it.
That's right? Sometimes decades. We have people ranging from teenagers up to people in their eighties who were all abused as children, and for lots of reasons. But yes, it does sometimes takes a long time.
And what are some of the major effects that they exhibit.
Well, the main one these days is called post traumatic stress disorder, and one of my clients is a psychologist described it herself as saying, it's like I've got a grenade inside me and it can go off at any time, triggered by something I see on TV or something someone says, or a memory that comes to me. Also depression, anxiety, low self worth, their education suffers, their workplace suffers, their family suffer, and unfortunately sometimes they're going too self harm as well.
So what are the barriers to them finding recovery?
Yeah, well, I think the main barrier is the shame. It's like the little child inside them has closed themselves up, feeling shame, even though it's not their fault at all, and then unfortunately they resort to other methods to help themselves, such as alcohol and drugs to self medicate the effects, and they just find it difficult to share with other people.
Built and what are some of the pathways to healing for survivors that are healthy?
Yeah, very good question. The good things for survivors is counseling if they can. Sometimes they can't because they find it difficult to open up psychologists, medical health, you know, drug and alcohol help. And then support groups such as one in we have here in New South Walest called Samson Survivors and Made Support that We're a wonderful organization where they can get together in a support group with other people who've been through similar things and just share about that.
Now, how effective MATE is the National Redress scheme, you know, because it's supposed to be there to give pursue justice.
Look, it is effective, it definitely is, But it's limited. It's limited because it only deals with sexual abuse, not physical abuse, and the levels of compensation that are provided are also limited maximum one hundred and fifty thousand, and for some the maximum if it's only touching abuses ten thousand, and he's forty thousand and exposure abuse ten thousand. So it's certainly got its benefits, particularly where it's the proof to prove the case would be difficult in a civil court.
Now, there have been two court decisions recently, one in the High Court and one in the Court of Appeal that have really been a setback of justice for victims.
They have. One is called Bishop Bird against the a DP, which is a pseudonym in the other one is called AA versus the trustees of the Maitland Diocese. Now they're both Catholic Church matters, but this doesn't just affect Catholic Church. It affects any organization, any institution that is dealing with children. And what those decisions are saying is that they will not extend the vicarious liability of the employer or the
organization to someone who is not technically an employee. So it means a priest of the Catholic Church in Bird and also AA. In those two decisions of the High Court and the Court of Appeal, they were not allowed to proceed with their case because technically a priest is not an employee according to those cases. So this is Really, the crux of the matter at the moment is we've had left us. The High courts left us with two
classes of citizens. One a child who is abused and grown up can get recompense under this doctrine of vicarious liability if the person is an employee an Anglican minister, is a scripture teacher employed by the school. Is but a priest isn't. A volunteer, isn't a youth leader, isn't a scout leader, isn't as coach of a rugby team,
isn't because they're not employees. And what the law was developing to the point where the survivors could get compensation in those areas, but the High Court closed it off.
Now I gather this remedial legislation being put for the Act Parliament this month and other places too. How confident are you of a favorable outcome from these measures?
Well, we need public support for those. Jeremy Buckingham in New South Wales of the Legalized Marijuana Party, his coort in Victoria has done the same there and the Greens have put forward remedial legislation in the Act. So we just want support from the big parties to do the right thing by the survivors, as happened in the Royal Commission, as was enunciated by Julia Gillard, who herself came out and said how bad the High Court decision was a
few days after. So we just need that public support and support in the major parties to say, hey, fix this so that our children will be safe.
Now do you think have you had any support from the Parliament so far outside of those people.
Yes, we have had parliamentarians indicate that they're supportive. But currently the New South Wales Attorney General is sitting on the fence and that hopefully that will change with public support.
So what sort of legislation would you like to see?
All we'd like to see is the legislation to become retrospective. The moment, there is legislation saying that people are kin to an employee who are like a scout leader type person or a coach of a team, who are who are looking after kids all the time. Legislation said has been put in into October twenty eighteen in New South Wales and other states saying that yeah, that should be something that the law extends to, but only prospectively built.
So it means no one's going to avail themselves of that law until thirty or forty years time, so absolutely useless at the moment. All we have to do is make it retrospective.
Now, there's bound to be someone listening tonight who's the survivor victim of historical child abuse. Where can they reach out for help?
Okay? So the easiest way for such a person who's listening, and that person you're wondering what do I do? You can pick up the phone and ring up an organization called No More starts with a K, not an end k nowmire and they're on one eight hundred six five seventy six two one eight hundred six oh five seventy sixty two. They're an independent government organization to advise people who are who are survivors of historical abuse and they were set up by the Royal Commission by the government.
They're funded by the government to make sure that every person has access to justice.
Peter, as a lawyer, how often does someone come to you with this sort of situation?
People in this situation every day, it's a daily thing. And sometimes, as I said, there's still even a teenager, others in their twenties thirties, forty fifties, all sorts of people who finally have decided to come out. Unfortunately we're seeing too much of it. But the main thing is we need to fix the law so that the institutions will be looking over their shold the saying, hey, if we don't look after these children properly, they might come
and sue us. We've got to make sure they have that incentive to put protective measures in place for our children so that in the future there'll be less people ringing up lawyers like me.
Peter, Peter, keep you, keep your powder going, keep going. See them. God bless you mate. Thank you. Peter carp, a lawyer who deals with survived victims of historical child abuse, Thanks so much for talking to us tonight. And more strength to your mate, more.
Strength, Thanks for everyone. Bill, want you too.
God bless thank you.