Tattoos, Anxiety and Intimacy with Jesus - Zac Morrison

00;00;01;09 - 00;00;27;22
Dave Quak
Welcome to sunburned Souls. I'm Dave Quak and on this show we explore life and faith and our mental well-being. As a pastor that struggles with mental illness, I get to chat to people like me, people that love Jesus and follow the way of Christ while dealing with the messiness and brokenness of life's. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode.

00;00;27;25 - 00;00;40;24
Dave Quak
Now, I know I listeners can't see this, but I love to start by talking about your normal tattoos, because anyone I've ever met with knuckle tattoos, that title like Hard Luck or Hate and Love or Des and Troy.

00;00;40;25 - 00;00;42;02
Zac Morrison
Yeah, usually woods.

00;00;42;05 - 00;00;44;23
Dave Quak
Woods or something. Tell us about your knuckle tattoos. What do you got?

00;00;44;25 - 00;00;57;18
Zac Morrison
Majority of mine, cartoon related. So I've got, The Simpsons on one hand and Futurama on the other. I've got, little skateboard. I've actually got a little low, as you can say, like a little slice of bread.

00;00;57;20 - 00;00;59;17
Dave Quak
Yeah, yeah. So is that from your baking, though?

00;00;59;19 - 00;01;12;08
Zac Morrison
Yeah. Yes. I thought I was just there one day and I just sat there and just went on my phone and just found a bunch of random stuff. I was like, I used to bake off with that. They I've got a, a barrel here because I used to own a bar and restaurants. I've got, I got a barrel of alcohol in it.

00;01;12;08 - 00;01;13;18
Zac Morrison
Put that on there. Yeah, yeah.

00;01;13;21 - 00;01;23;04
Dave Quak
Do you listen to like it's from a distance. You're like, oh this guy's got all these tats. But then you get close and they're really fun and they're really like, yeah, yeah, there's a few comic ones there. I can see Batman over there.

00;01;23;09 - 00;01;25;06
Zac Morrison
Yeah, yeah, closet nerd.

00;01;25;09 - 00;01;30;15
Dave Quak
I see it. Yeah, I see it. One of you is like, you just tell us a little bit about your life at the moment. What are you doing?

00;01;30;22 - 00;01;57;19
Zac Morrison
I'm, at the moment, I'm a carpenter. I finish this year. I started a mature, aged apprenticeship, you know? So, I was at a stage where, I was having my kids 5050 because I'm divorced, and, And I could no longer do, I could no longer do those sorts of jobs anymore. Like, I couldn't do night shift, and I couldn't, do that, so I had to kind of find a job that at least I was there for them at one point in the day.

00;01;57;21 - 00;02;05;00
Zac Morrison
So my parents take my kids to school in the morning, and then I can pick them up after school after I finish work and spend an afternoon with them. Yeah.

00;02;05;05 - 00;02;10;08
Dave Quak
And that's the thing, when you get separated and remarriage is sort of figuring out all the logistics of that. Yeah.

00;02;10;12 - 00;02;10;28
Zac Morrison
Yeah.

00;02;11;01 - 00;02;14;02
Dave Quak
Okay. That's cool. So you've remarried and tell us about your wife.

00;02;14;04 - 00;02;30;02
Zac Morrison
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. She's great. She is a stay at home, parent for and a carer for, our, our son, her son, Archer. And he's, he's just got, disabilities and and she needs to be home to be able to take a look after him and take him to appointments. Okay.

00;02;30;02 - 00;02;31;00
Dave Quak
So all sorts of things like.

00;02;31;00 - 00;02;33;06
Zac Morrison
That, full time care. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;02;33;08 - 00;02;42;12
Dave Quak
All right. So as you know, this is all about faith and mental health. Why don't we start with faith. Like what's your story with faith. How did you come to know Jesus. What's your what's he do? Yeah.

00;02;42;14 - 00;03;05;04
Zac Morrison
I, I've been in and around churches for, my whole life, but not committal, like. Like it's not. It's never been like I as a kid. I think we went with family and friends every now and then. Yeah. As a, as a teenager, friends in school were really, like, Christian go to use every week, go to church on the weekends.

00;03;05;04 - 00;03;28;21
Zac Morrison
And, I just happened to be friends with those people. And I would just go with them because I'd invite me. Yeah. And, so I went to like, a lot of it's like I'd go every Friday or every couple of Fridays and I'd be in an in and around it all the time, really. And and then kind of went away from that, after school finished and then was kind of reintroduced through my wife to the church again.

00;03;28;21 - 00;03;32;21
Zac Morrison
And that was when I kind of like came fully into it there.

00;03;32;23 - 00;03;34;16
Dave Quak
So what is something Killeen to it look.

00;03;34;16 - 00;03;35;17
Zac Morrison
Like becoming a believer?

00;03;35;21 - 00;03;36;01
Dave Quak
Okay.

00;03;36;01 - 00;03;49;28
Zac Morrison
Yeah. And, not just turning up because someone invited me. Yeah. Coming. Because I want to be there and because. Because I believe. And I can, you know, resonate. I guess the word is like with what's going on.

00;03;49;28 - 00;03;59;11
Dave Quak
And I came out of this. Okay. Yeah. That's awesome. And so you started coming, and then was there any penny drop kind of moments or was it a progression or.

00;03;59;13 - 00;04;24;03
Zac Morrison
It was like this, oh, a six month period of unexplainable things happening when I just started to even just question my faith and where I lie. So, I had I had just been I've been divorced for a few months. I and I started a bar and restaurant and, Covid was happening like, it just was, like, slowly happening.

00;04;24;06 - 00;04;41;28
Zac Morrison
And then, I'd met my wife at a we were throwing a one year anniversary. Like, we were like, we just been open for a whole year. So we're like, we'll throw a party. My wife was a friend of the other guys down on the bar with. And, he invited her down. We met there and just kind of like, you know, hung out and like, oh, yeah, that.

00;04;42;00 - 00;04;59;29
Zac Morrison
And she said, oh, you can visit me down the Gold Coast if you ever come down that way sort of thing. And I know that sounds good. And then Covid happened and shut everything down. And then just through that sort of situation, I started speaking with her more and messaging and, because I wasn't working all the time because owning a business, obviously there all the time.

00;05;00;04 - 00;05;19;21
Zac Morrison
Yeah. And I never would have had that time to, to see her. And she, she was never shy about her faith and where she was. And she constantly told me, even though we were like, not even really date and just kind of hanging out and then progressively into progressed into dating. She would say, if God says no, it's a no.

00;05;19;23 - 00;05;23;15
Zac Morrison
Like this year. Just like if I just all of a sudden one day it's a no, it's a no.

00;05;23;17 - 00;05;25;20
Dave Quak
At least she told you she's not like very sad.

00;05;25;20 - 00;05;43;13
Zac Morrison
And then this is kind of like okay. And I would personally think it's extremely disrespectful to go I'm a believer just so I can date you and then not have that faith. And then it's not fair on her. It's not fair on the kids. It's not fair on anyone. Yeah. And, so we just progressively that kind of happened.

00;05;43;13 - 00;06;01;11
Zac Morrison
And then we had this like real big chat and then which ended in tears on my part. And I'm just like, I just don't believe, like, I. Okay, I want to be in this relationship, but I don't believe and I don't know where I'm at. And, throughout this period of time, I had I had an experience.

00;06;01;11 - 00;06;19;03
Zac Morrison
I used to have a shoulder that dislocated all the time, and it had dislocated above my head, and I had to go to the hospital and get it put back in. And when I got there, they gave you the gas like so they're going to pop it back into place. And I just started slowly hearing this beeping and it was like, beep, beep.

00;06;19;03 - 00;06;39;12
Zac Morrison
And then I could feel myself fading away. Wow. And I faded away. And then I just go, beep beep beep beep beep. And then I, I was obviously and I was knocked out a while. However, that worked and I just had this. At the time, I was like this strange dream of my shoulder dislocated above my head, being in excruciating pain.

00;06;39;14 - 00;06;58;20
Zac Morrison
The beeping was continuous and this just this, I couldn't see anything, but something was there with me and it was just like, this is your forever. And then that went on for like 20 minutes. Yeah, in the dream. And then I'd woken up and it'd been like, 20s. Yeah. And I had all these doctors and nurses or whoever, they were surrounding me just like.

00;06;58;20 - 00;07;16;19
Zac Morrison
Oh, and like, we lost you for a second there. Like, obviously I'm not hooked up to anything, so I had an hour where my, you know, vitals, heartbeat. Like, you know, that sort of stuff. And and they're like, oh. And I was just like, I didn't think much of it. And then I came to call after takes off and was just like, oh, like, this is what happened.

00;07;16;19 - 00;07;31;08
Zac Morrison
Crazy. And she's like, you sure you didn't die on that table? And I was like, nah. Brushed it off. Like, you know, that's not that's not a thing. She's like, I think you went and like. And then thinking of it as like, that was my version of hell.

00;07;31;10 - 00;07;31;23
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;07;31;29 - 00;07;42;02
Zac Morrison
Being in the most pain I've ever been in my life with a really annoying noise that was, from my biking days. It was the noise of a an oven beeping, which is really loud, really annoying.

00;07;42;04 - 00;07;43;07
Dave Quak
Really triggering. Yeah.

00;07;43;09 - 00;08;01;20
Zac Morrison
Yeah, I did that job, but yeah. And then like that had happened and I just brushed it off. And then we came to this point of like she's like, you know, where's your faith? And we can't do this forever. And I don't really, you know, we don't know where we're at. And same thing. If God says no, it's a no.

00;08;01;22 - 00;08;23;26
Zac Morrison
And I'm like, well, we shouldn't for the kids sake, for that, we shouldn't continue this. If it's not going to work. And so at that point in time, in that conversation, churches had just come back after Covid and I came to my first, sermon and you were preaching and you had spoken about, I think it was the autumn.

00;08;23;29 - 00;08;24;03
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;08;24;08 - 00;08;25;28
Zac Morrison
You I think that's the word you use.

00;08;25;29 - 00;08;39;04
Dave Quak
Yeah. When someone new comes to church, you really hope you're not speaking on God calling unfaithful Israel whores. Like it's just not your favorite week for them to, turn off.

00;08;39;05 - 00;08;39;25
Zac Morrison
Yeah, but.

00;08;39;25 - 00;08;45;03
Dave Quak
They century prophets. I mean, God goes there, so we got to go there. Yeah, I can see me, brother.

00;08;45;04 - 00;09;05;00
Zac Morrison
Oh, yeah. I, I knew he was speaking about that, and it's kind of like. And I was driving home, back to Brisbane, and I was just like, I gotta be like, I gotta be serious about this. I've got a question. What I believe, where I believe, like, what's going on? Because, yeah, I can't continue with, you know, it's not going to continue if it's if it's not that.

00;09;05;02 - 00;09;23;00
Zac Morrison
And I just kind of like was driving the car and I just comment like, oh, I wish I could just have a sign. Yeah. Like some sort of sign, a clear, something clear so that I know where I'm at. So it's not, because I'm like, I want to believe it's great. I think Christ Church is a great people to, like, believe in God's great.

00;09;23;00 - 00;09;40;21
Zac Morrison
And I was just like, I don't know what to do. And so I ask for the sign, and then all of a sudden I just start getting this like a panic attack feeling of just, I'm like driving. And I'm like, signing this panic attack. And I pull over because I just, you know, I can feel myself, slipping a bit.

00;09;40;23 - 00;10;04;23
Zac Morrison
So I pull over and, all of a sudden these flashes go through my like, just, you know, like when people say your life flashes before your eyes. Yeah. It was kind of like at that sort of moment where I just started seeing all these images of every time, every time I turned away from God in those moments of my child, like, from childhood up to teenage years of going to church and being a part of churches.

00;10;04;23 - 00;10;29;13
Zac Morrison
And then when I went, like, not not going anymore or whatever, something just bad, just kind of happened. And my life took a different path of what, like, not just not. Right. Yes. But at the same time, I still saw God's blessings in those, in those, those things. So, like, because you were saying, like, God still loves you, but he, you know, he's going to do something.

00;10;29;13 - 00;10;31;13
Zac Morrison
I think it was he was going to punish you in a way.

00;10;31;20 - 00;10;51;00
Dave Quak
Well, I think in that context was like, he still loves you, but you need to return to him. Yeah, yeah. You know, like, it's I think it had to have been I probably, you know, like, you know, his wife was a prostitute. God was calling her him to love her as a representative representation of how much he loves the church.

00;10;51;02 - 00;10;58;09
Dave Quak
But she still has to turn around, you know, and his love never ended. But it was in her best interest to come back to it. Yeah, yeah.

00;10;58;11 - 00;11;12;20
Zac Morrison
Yeah. So it was kind of like, that's all I was gonna like. Every time I went away, I still had that. But it didn't go well for me and I didn't really have a good path. In my life, I was making good decisions. Like, it was just that sort of stuff. And I just had all these flashes of that happening.

00;11;12;23 - 00;11;30;28
Zac Morrison
Yeah. At each time, like that happened, and then I kind of just wake up and it's been like a series of talks. I don't know how long it was exactly, but it felt like it probably had been 20 minutes or something like that. And it was just a long time. And, and I woke up and I just went, oh, last for something.

00;11;31;00 - 00;11;31;13
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;11;31;13 - 00;11;39;06
Zac Morrison
And and it happened. Yeah. And also throughout that time of just like questioning my faith, my life was slowly getting better.

00;11;39;10 - 00;11;40;10
Dave Quak
Okay.

00;11;40;13 - 00;11;57;14
Zac Morrison
So I have told you about my shoulder. Yeah. I've been doing surgery for that for years. For like three years. Yeah. And after that, an encounter that I had with the shoulder above my head, they had, my surgeries booked for two months later. Yeah, they just put me in for surgery.

00;11;57;14 - 00;11;58;25
Dave Quak
So things started changing.

00;11;58;25 - 00;12;18;26
Zac Morrison
Yeah, things just started change. And just things throughout in my life at that time were really difficult and things were just getting a little bit better. Yeah. And things were just happening as this time went. Yeah. Just not even by my own control. It just was happening. So I was just like, oh, this is like things are getting better.

00;12;18;28 - 00;12;34;05
Zac Morrison
I just had this moment of asking and receiving exactly what I asked for, being shown in a way that only I would, change with, like, you know, something like asking for a sign and being so clear. Yeah, it was something that was.

00;12;34;08 - 00;12;42;25
Dave Quak
Was very unique to me. Yeah, yeah, just a definitive look in your life because a different thing wouldn't have worked. Yeah. That's one cool thing about God is he knows how to draw us.

00;12;42;25 - 00;12;48;05
Zac Morrison
Yeah. Logical things wouldn't have worked if you said like this. These are the reasons why God exists. Yeah.

00;12;48;07 - 00;12;48;18
Dave Quak
That's right.

00;12;48;18 - 00;12;50;23
Zac Morrison
Okay, but I still don't believe it because I don't feel it.

00;12;50;27 - 00;13;08;15
Dave Quak
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and I know sometimes in Christian circles we, like, can look condescendingly upon people who have, feelings based faith. And I guess there's issues, if that's all it's based on. But in the initial stages, what else have you got to work with? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's leading in the Holy Spirit.

00;13;08;15 - 00;13;12;24
Dave Quak
It's the tactile ways he introduces himself to us.

00;13;13;00 - 00;13;14;19
Zac Morrison
And that's that's just the only way I would have.

00;13;14;26 - 00;13;26;02
Dave Quak
Well that's right. Yeah. And it's also along with you love languages as well. You're, you know, like. Yeah, I think he, he knows how to draw us to himself. Panic attacks. Have you had them before like was that your first one or.

00;13;26;03 - 00;13;44;13
Zac Morrison
No. No I had had panic attacks before. So as I said before with my shoulder, I was in so much pain with my shoulder all the time, I couldn't lift it past my waist. Otherwise it would dislocate. I had to sleep in a sling. And it was just always in pain. And I had to go get an MRI, and I had never got one before.

00;13;44;13 - 00;14;00;06
Zac Morrison
And I just went in thinking, like, I'll just get in and get this done. And then I sat on that, went in, and then all of a sudden I just sat going and I feeling I'd never had before. And and then I'm like, oh, let me out, let me out. And like, they give you a button to push and you're like, let me out.

00;14;00;06 - 00;14;10;17
Zac Morrison
Yeah. And like I'm like, oh, you okay? I'm like, I, I'm fine. I'm just like, I don't know why. I'm just this that just happened. Okay, put me back in. And I tried three more times. And each time I went in there, I just started having these panic attacks.

00;14;10;17 - 00;14;11;14
Dave Quak
Yeah, okay.

00;14;11;16 - 00;14;23;15
Zac Morrison
And they said, oh, there's an it and there's another, an MRI machine, in a different location. It's a bit bigger. It has, you know, it's cut off at the end. You might feel a bit better in that one. So I didn't realize I was claustrophobic.

00;14;23;19 - 00;14;24;00
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;14;24;00 - 00;14;44;23
Zac Morrison
And because I'd never been in a situation like that before. And so they sent me to this other place the next day, and, but that 24 hour period I was having, like continuous panic attacks for an entire 20 like 24 hours up leading up to it. Yeah, because of the thinking about getting into it. Yeah. Okay. And that's the only time I've ever had them.

00;14;44;23 - 00;14;50;09
Dave Quak
That's very interesting. It's almost like you body had kept the school like it was, you know, in a heightened state.

00;14;50;10 - 00;14;50;28
Zac Morrison
Yeah.

00;14;51;01 - 00;14;53;28
Dave Quak
Just ready to react, ready to. But I just.

00;14;53;28 - 00;14;55;11
Zac Morrison
Didn't sleep for that whole time.

00;14;55;17 - 00;15;18;08
Dave Quak
That's terrible. Yeah. And having physical trauma as well, triggering, like, emotional panic attacks and mental health things, I mean, that's such a it's such a complicated intersection there as well because when the physical like if your shoulder is continually dislocating, like you're in a constant state of readiness, a constant state of stress, you know, and. Yeah, okay.

00;15;18;08 - 00;15;22;21
Dave Quak
So you had some panic attacks. What about other things? Have you had any anxiety or anything in your life or.

00;15;22;24 - 00;15;56;24
Zac Morrison
Yes. So, I don't really know how long I've had it for because I've always put myself in a situation where if something makes me feel anxious, I just don't do it. Yeah. So I, I don't know how long it's been an issue for. But. Having older children and having the life I have now, I'm constantly put into situations where I will was constantly put in situations where I couldn't just say no and I could just not go.

00;15;56;26 - 00;15;59;28
Dave Quak
And so you are forced to face the things you'd normally avoid. Yeah.

00;15;59;28 - 00;16;27;24
Zac Morrison
So and then all of a sudden these things were I was getting really anxious all the time and feeling all these, this anxiousness. And I'm pretty I'm really grateful for my wife because she noticed it pushed me to, to see someone about it and to face it really. And it really made a change in that regard because I didn't actually really know I had it.

00;16;27;24 - 00;16;29;06
Zac Morrison
I just know I didn't want to do it.

00;16;29;08 - 00;16;29;23
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;16;29;24 - 00;16;31;19
Zac Morrison
So I was just I don't want to do that.

00;16;31;21 - 00;16;35;14
Dave Quak
So what does facing it look like for you? What did that what it.

00;16;35;14 - 00;16;55;20
Zac Morrison
Was initially it was seeing someone. So it was like seeing a, a therapist. Yeah. And, because, when when I'd separated from my wife originally, I was having a lot of trouble with, coping with not seeing my kids all the time. Yeah. And I just thought I was sad, and, like, I don't get to see them every day.

00;16;55;20 - 00;17;10;22
Zac Morrison
I don't get to pick it up from school every day. Like, it's just. I thought I was just really sad. And, I went to I just went to the doctors about it, like, you know, I'm just feeling like this and, you know, like that. And then it's like, take this test, I think, yeah, anxiety and depression. Yeah.

00;17;10;22 - 00;17;26;15
Zac Morrison
Here's some pills you can take for it, and go see someone. And this was just before I'd met ash, and this is just before Covid hit. I was like, oh, I'll give it, you know, I'll give these, depression pills a go sort of thing. And I took one, and it just made me feel worse.

00;17;26;18 - 00;17;27;09
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;17;27;11 - 00;17;46;02
Zac Morrison
And, I just after taking it two, I just decided, like, I didn't. I'm not going to do it anymore. Okay. I had some people go like, hey, I don't think you actually really have depression. I feel like the people you're surrounded with are making you feel that way. Okay? And those those are hard to get off.

00;17;46;02 - 00;18;04;25
Zac Morrison
They're hard to use. Like, they're just like, you know, think about it or, you know, give it a go. And then I just decided to go without it and see someone in and go to a go see a, a therapist. And then I was going to went to see a therapist the day Covid happened. Okay. And I decided not to on the day because,

00;18;04;28 - 00;18;06;07
Dave Quak
Because the world was shutting.

00;18;06;07 - 00;18;24;04
Zac Morrison
Down and we were like, before 12:00, we were like, let's, let's get rid of all of this food. And the, the booze we can that's going to go off because we're not going to be able to get rid of it. So we, we did like a $2 beer day between 10 and 12. Yeah, we just had two hours where everyone just came in and.

00;18;24;04 - 00;18;25;25
Zac Morrison
And just bought a pint.

00;18;25;27 - 00;18;26;19
Dave Quak
Can be merry.

00;18;26;19 - 00;18;30;03
Zac Morrison
Yeah, yeah. So I just decided not to go that day.

00;18;30;04 - 00;18;32;13
Dave Quak
Okay. So you never went to the service, did you go later?

00;18;32;17 - 00;18;51;04
Zac Morrison
Yeah. So, when it. Because it just was causing a big problem in our relationship because I would just shut down, okay. Because I'm so used to just shutting down, when things got get hard and the people in my life prior weren't, they didn't really care, to be honest like that. Just you'd shut down and they'd be like, okay, shutting down.

00;18;51;04 - 00;19;14;21
Zac Morrison
And then, yeah, that's the end of the conversation. No one talks about it. Whereas I was like really emotionally intelligent and she's kind of like no, no, no, we can this is not how we're doing it. We can't have a relationship. But you just shut down. And we don't talk about this and nothing happens. And we're both left with this feeling of, you know hurt or invalidation and things like that.

00;19;14;21 - 00;19;37;12
Zac Morrison
So I did eventually go, go see someone. And I saw one person in Brisbane, which I didn't really get along with. She wasn't really going in the direction, I felt that I needed help with. And then after and then and then I didn't. I went to a couple of sessions, and then I didn't go for a while and then suicide.

00;19;37;13 - 00;19;41;00
Zac Morrison
But it was the same issue. Like, I don't want to do this because it makes me feel anxious.

00;19;41;00 - 00;19;41;16
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;19;41;18 - 00;20;05;04
Zac Morrison
And same thing. My wife was really, really impatient and she's just like, this isn't our relationship not going to work if you don't seek help in some sort of way? So I went and saw someone else who was went real specific on the anxiety and how to how to deal with it. And the problem was I didn't really know what was causing it.

00;20;05;06 - 00;20;05;17
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;20;05;22 - 00;20;26;26
Zac Morrison
So I didn't know why I was shutting down and why I was feeling anxious and the idea from, from the therapist was just like slowly increase the things that make you anxious from, you know, a one to a ten. Yeah. Let's go. Let's start with ones and we'll slowly move to tens. And then it was just like.

00;20;26;29 - 00;20;36;28
Zac Morrison
And then as you kind of progressed through that, you kind of become aware of when that anxious feelings coming. Okay. And

00;20;37;00 - 00;20;49;24
Zac Morrison
I've got like a mindset of like if I know what's happening I can stop it. So like I can go this is making me feel anxious. Oh that's why it's making me feel anxious. It's the previous thing that make me feel anxious. Not this.

00;20;49;27 - 00;20;50;11
Dave Quak
Okay.

00;20;50;15 - 00;21;12;24
Zac Morrison
So I was like arguing and things like that or like getting into, you know, I know that from previous arguments with previous people. That's just, there were like narcissistic people who would just, like, shut you down and make you feel horrible any time you brought up, an issue where you're always wrong. Yeah. So I knew I'm always wrong.

00;21;12;26 - 00;21;14;04
Zac Morrison
I can't have this discussion, but. Yeah.

00;21;14;07 - 00;21;27;16
Dave Quak
So that's where your mindset was at every time there's an argument, might as well shut down because I'm there anyway. Okay. Yeah. And they help. So when you say they like go from 1 to 10, that's increasing the levels of things that you would consider anxiety creating.

00;21;27;17 - 00;21;52;02
Zac Morrison
So they would go like, she should decide right now what's making, you know, what would be a mildly anxious thing, like going to, starting a conversation with a stranger? Yeah. So, I used to not be able to go into rooms and have, not well thought out conversation. With people. So, like, if I was entering a party, I would have to know who was there.

00;21;52;08 - 00;22;09;16
Zac Morrison
Yeah. Okay. And who can I talk to about what and what's. Yeah what's their interests. And then I would spend the whole conversation just getting them to talk. Yeah. And just trying to get them to fill the void of conversation. Like to just so I could not have to speak and not have to think because it would make me so anxious.

00;22;09;19 - 00;22;16;01
Zac Morrison
So I'd go in and like, who's there? This is what's happening. Like, yep, they like football. That's what I see the game like this is this.

00;22;16;04 - 00;22;16;27
Dave Quak
Yeah, yeah.

00;22;17;04 - 00;22;22;01
Zac Morrison
And if it was strangers, it was like trying to figure out what they liked, that they could talk and things like that.

00;22;22;01 - 00;22;22;25
Dave Quak
So then.

00;22;23;00 - 00;22;48;00
Zac Morrison
Yeah, but it'd be like a one was a conversation. And then a ten might be getting into an argument with your spouse or bringing up an issue that's, hurt your feelings or something like that. And that might be a ten. And then they those ten slowly become eights. Okay, fives. And you, you deal with it. And it doesn't go away is what she said she was like, it doesn't ever go away, but you can't manage it, okay?

00;22;48;00 - 00;22;48;21
Zac Morrison
And and you.

00;22;48;21 - 00;22;49;01
Dave Quak
Found that.

00;22;49;01 - 00;22;54;18
Zac Morrison
Helpful. Yeah. And being a being aware of it, helps, you know, to shut down.

00;22;54;24 - 00;22;55;05
Dave Quak


00;22;55;05 - 00;22;56;17
Zac Morrison
Not to not feel it.

00;22;56;19 - 00;22;57;01
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;22;57;05 - 00;22;57;26
Zac Morrison
Yeah.

00;22;57;28 - 00;23;14;29
Dave Quak
No that's good because you don't want to shut down. But I can understand the attraction of that. You know sometimes those situations, even some of the ones you've just already mentioned, it's a nightmare going into a room full of strangers trying to meet people. Yeah. You know, the extreme extroverts find it great, which I did in my early 20s.

00;23;14;29 - 00;23;22;00
Dave Quak
But now, look, I'm. Yeah, I get the anxiety creating atmosphere that can be.

00;23;22;03 - 00;23;44;12
Zac Morrison
And I moved from from Brisbane to the Gold Coast to be with my wife and everyone, like she's friends with everyone down here. So I had to meet a whole new group of people I had to go to church every week with is not always the same people there every week, and it was just like this constant, trigger of anxiety every time I was like, in a situation like that.

00;23;44;12 - 00;23;51;10
Zac Morrison
Yeah. And, it would just be. Yeah, like I said, thinking about what? What can I talk about?

00;23;51;12 - 00;24;09;22
Dave Quak
No. It's true. Yeah. And even churches, you know, it's hard to find. I mean, obviously we've got Christ in common, but it's hard to find. You know, you people in churches can accidentally be clicky and all of that stuff can happen. So with managing anxiety, you've never gone on medication other than trying that first time and going, now this isn't for me.

00;24;09;24 - 00;24;18;20
Dave Quak
Yes. Okay. And so do you have to really pay attention to things like diet and exercise and, and that sort of thing, or does that play a part with you?

00;24;18;22 - 00;24;36;18
Zac Morrison
I what it's always when you've when you're healthy, you feel better. You always it's always the case. And, my wife and I do, do like, you know, healthy eating plans and things like that every now and then. We generally do like, we like to go out and eat and we like our junk food every, you know, like everyone.

00;24;36;20 - 00;24;49;01
Zac Morrison
But we tend to try and stick to a healthy, healthy diet. And being open to my daily routine is exercise. So I feel like that I wouldn't know what it's like to not have it, if that makes sense.

00;24;49;01 - 00;25;07;12
Dave Quak
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because with anxiety management, there has to be some sort of like what? I assume there has to be some sort of physical outlet. So for me, with my anxiety, I am on an SSRI, which is, a medication. But when I tried to get off that, it was like all hell broke loose in my mind.

00;25;07;14 - 00;25;27;00
Dave Quak
So we're all on different, you know, we all manage it differently. I'm encouraged at the fact that you do carry significant anxiety, and you'll still able to manage it without medication, because there will be people listening who are on both sides, some who take, some who do not, some who believe in it, some who don't. Some are still just in that area of figuring it out.

00;25;27;00 - 00;25;33;20
Dave Quak
And so it's nice to talk to someone who's not medicated still and sometimes anxious, but still existing.

00;25;33;22 - 00;25;43;10
Zac Morrison
Because I even like, try like even if I have headaches and stuff, I try and push it out until it's unbearable. I like to take Panadol and things like that. Yeah. So I'm like, I'm just not really like a.

00;25;43;12 - 00;25;44;17
Dave Quak
This is not your normal thing.

00;25;44;18 - 00;25;47;26
Zac Morrison
Yeah. So my normal way it goes, I always try to do something before that.

00;25;47;26 - 00;25;49;00
Dave Quak
Okay. That's cool.

00;25;49;02 - 00;25;53;20
Zac Morrison
Yeah. I was just lucky enough that it. Yeah. You know, I found a good person.

00;25;53;24 - 00;26;10;25
Dave Quak
Well, I mean, I think that's one, one way to put it, but I also think there's just been some divine intervention happening in your world, even. Oh, yeah. You know, it's just sometimes theologians call it like the scarlet thread, like the thread of Jesus through your life in him, you know, in your life before you even recognize it.

00;26;10;25 - 00;26;17;00
Dave Quak
You know, the fact you want to use and that just because your friends liked it or there was an escape or whatever, It's him.

00;26;17;02 - 00;26;31;23
Zac Morrison
Yeah. Because I always, I always really enjoyed the youth. Yeah. Like I saw it again because I enjoyed it. Yeah. I think it was just the pressure. Yeah, that pushed me away. Probably because of anxious feelings as well, I guess, with that sort of stuff.

00;26;31;26 - 00;26;43;26
Dave Quak
Yeah. And I. Okay, so with the shutting down, like, do you now still find or attempted by just withdrawing from the world when the pressure's on?

00;26;43;29 - 00;26;44;20
Zac Morrison
Yes.

00;26;44;20 - 00;27;14;10
Dave Quak
Yeah, yeah. What do you do about that. Because you mentioned earlier you've got, you know, two biological children ashes three. There's five kids plus you two. It's you know, I just got these special needs which, you know, make things even more complicated. He's a delightful lad, but extra attention needed, you know, like, how do you not withdraw? Like, what's the strategy for anyone who's like, just about to book a ticket to a deserted island?

00;27;14;13 - 00;27;26;29
Dave Quak
Because, I thought about that movie castaway. Yeah. And everyone used to see that as a survival movie. I see it as a fantasy movie. I'm like, bring that on, brother. She's on the island by himself. No one to annoy him.

00;27;27;01 - 00;27;27;24
Zac Morrison
He's not a good mate.

00;27;27;24 - 00;27;36;26
Dave Quak
But he's got a gourmet guy fishing. Yeah. Hang on the beach. You know what? What do you did? Overcome that temptation? Withdrawal.

00;27;36;29 - 00;27;41;04
Zac Morrison
Faith has made a massive impact as well.

00;27;41;06 - 00;27;43;20
Dave Quak
Tell me so. Yeah.

00;27;43;23 - 00;28;01;28
Zac Morrison
When you in turn. Like when not. I don't know you but me when I internalize everything, I find it really hard to express how I feel with words, obviously like. And I'm going to make it up like, I don't know how to bring it up. I don't know how to talk about it, but when being able to pray about it.

00;28;02;00 - 00;28;19;03
Zac Morrison
Okay, so I've had to be even reminded by ash a few times like, you're a different person now. You don't need to like, you know, you know, you can lean on God for these things. Yeah, and you can talk to him, and you don't have to build up that courage and say it out loud. You've got someone to talk to.

00;28;19;07 - 00;28;37;10
Zac Morrison
That's cool. And that has been a massive help when it comes to shutting down and internalizing, and actually being able to come out of that without, because being aware of it, being able to manage it, it's fine. But like stopping it.

00;28;37;12 - 00;28;38;00
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;28;38;02 - 00;28;59;23
Zac Morrison
Is really hard. Yeah, I find that, I find that when I kind of turned to God in those moments is when is when I can kind of stop it, I love that. Yeah. So I think we were talking about before with the shoulder having the panic attacks in the MRI. So I had I had two muscle tears in my left shoulder, recently.

00;28;59;26 - 00;29;24;18
Zac Morrison
And I had had to go get another MRI and I'd come back from, I come back from the doctors and I just freaked out and panicked and thought, I'm, I'm going back to the MRI. I'm going to I'm going to panic attack again. I'm stressed. Like, I was just I just was just completely gone. And I'd just been right back there where where I was having panic attacks.

00;29;24;18 - 00;29;44;29
Zac Morrison
My shoulder was sore. This was all happening. Yeah. And, and then I down the I kind of just sat me down and was just like, look how like how we're going to deal with this. I'm going to get on. I'm going to, message can I get jump on? Our Facebook group chats with all the like, our life groups and things and get them to pray for you.

00;29;45;02 - 00;30;06;29
Zac Morrison
And she's just like, you're different. You know, like I say, you're a different person. You're not the same person you were then. And you have tools to to use now to help me get through this. And it was just that real shock moment of like, I'm not that person. And I'm that's, you know, and I went from like, completely shutting down, like, panicked and, stress.

00;30;06;29 - 00;30;24;22
Zac Morrison
And then I went to, Yeah, I went in, to the MRI. She came with me. I went in by myself last time. My mum actually came in with me and I was there like, I am here. I'm here, like, touching my leg, like you're here. I'm here. And I had to smile my way through it.

00;30;24;22 - 00;30;43;20
Zac Morrison
And I just fake it till I made it. Like to get through that MRI. I was just like, yeah, yeah, doubt. I just like trying not to hold still. So trying to hold still. And, But this time I had to go in by myself. And then I was like it. And then I got on there. I lay there for the 20 minutes, I think it was 20 or 25 minutes, and just did it.

00;30;43;25 - 00;31;00;21
Zac Morrison
And yeah, it was a completely different experience. I had no panic attacks, I didn't feel claustrophobic, and I had time to go to that. Yeah. And I had got prayed about it and I prayed through it. Yeah. And when I was starting to feel a bit anxious in there, I prayed about it and it just went away.

00;31;00;23 - 00;31;19;29
Dave Quak
Oh, man. And that's the power of the resurrection, isn't it like to, you know, we were one thing and now we're not in. Yeah. You know, dead. Now you're alive. Yeah. You can still withdraw, but to prayer or to God or something. Yeah. It's a different way. It's like solitude, not loneliness, you know? Solitude. It's time with God.

00;31;20;01 - 00;31;34;08
Dave Quak
Loneliness is time by itself. Yeah. So you can. It looks the same from the outside, you know, you see one person sitting by themselves. You can think, okay, that person's alone, but they can be completely satisfied in Christ alone and look exactly the same externally.

00;31;34;10 - 00;31;40;25
Zac Morrison
Yeah. I used to really struggle with being like after my separation. I used to struggle with being alone.

00;31;40;27 - 00;31;41;16
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;31;41;19 - 00;31;58;04
Zac Morrison
Because I don't really been in a household with kids and stuff since I was like 18 years old. Yeah. So and then all of a sudden myself and I yeah, struggled with that a lot. And I was really antsy and I was not able to sit still. And I just like always having to do something, having to go out and do something.

00;31;58;07 - 00;32;02;06
Zac Morrison
I couldn't even sit down and watch a TV show. Because I'd just be like, I gotta get up, gotta move.

00;32;02;07 - 00;32;02;26
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;32;02;28 - 00;32;06;14
Zac Morrison
You know, and then now I can delight in and being alone.

00;32;06;16 - 00;32;29;16
Dave Quak
Yes, yes yes. And that's, that's all there has to be the Holy Spirit. Yeah. You know what I mean. Because you're not alone. Yeah. You know I like yeah. It's amazing. Transformation happens. It's such a deep level. I love as well how you're saying, you know, you could notice a tangible difference between last time and this time, you know, and even when you're in there and feeling a bit anxious straight to God and got through like that's actually a miracle.

00;32;29;16 - 00;32;54;06
Dave Quak
Sometimes we don't recognize the miracles we might consider small. Yeah, but like, you got set free from something that is is really horrifying. Yeah. I don't have claustrophobia. But I have had an MRI, and I can imagine it's hell for people who do have claustrophobia. It's freaky in there. And it's loud, man. And it is stuck. And you don't feel like if you had to get out, you could.

00;32;54;07 - 00;32;57;23
Dave Quak
Yeah. You know, like, it's like, man, this is like a metal hole.

00;32;57;26 - 00;33;10;02
Zac Morrison
Yeah. And I have these weighted things on my hand in pain. So I'm feeling the pain. I'm feeling like it's going to dislocate. Yeah, I'm panicked because I feel like I'm stuck and. Yeah, just. Yeah.

00;33;10;04 - 00;33;20;22
Dave Quak
Anxiety is just such a complex, you know, topic. Does your anxiety ever lead you to places of depression for extended periods of time or anything?

00;33;20;22 - 00;33;29;00
Zac Morrison
Or do I feel like it can trigger me being down? Yeah, a lot, but I don't ever feel depressed.

00;33;29;00 - 00;33;29;10
Dave Quak
Okay.

00;33;29;17 - 00;33;36;26
Zac Morrison
So I just feel like, life's terrible, you know what I mean? Like, I just kind of go like, oh, I'm sad.

00;33;37;02 - 00;33;41;06
Dave Quak
Okay, so the wind gets taken out of your sails, but you wouldn't classify it as to not.

00;33;41;07 - 00;34;02;15
Zac Morrison
Sit down like, oh, every now and then I'll just feel down. Yeah. And I feel like it's triggered in some way. Yeah. But same I still I'm still learning and still growing through this. So it's a bit hard to that's probably like my next step of, self-improvement is to just be aware of of the down moments and understanding.

00;34;02;21 - 00;34;03;21
Dave Quak
Yeah. Figure out what?

00;34;03;27 - 00;34;10;07
Zac Morrison
Because when you when you're down, you're just like, I'm down. Yeah. That's just all. That's me. Yeah, that's my bit like I've been down for so long. That's what happens, you know.

00;34;10;07 - 00;34;31;15
Dave Quak
Yeah. That's it. And that is an important thing we have to make sure we always reiterate on this show is that being down and being depressed aren't necessarily always the same thing. Yeah. But then, you know, sometimes they are, you know, so we don't want to dismiss them or enable each, I guess. What's going on lately? What's the where are you at now with your face?

00;34;31;21 - 00;34;42;01
Zac Morrison
Yeah. So, after it's been, it's been, I think three years now since I've been in the church. Yeah. This is the third year. Last year, I decided to get baptized.

00;34;42;04 - 00;34;42;19
Dave Quak
Oh, nice.

00;34;42;19 - 00;34;56;05
Zac Morrison
And I was lucky enough to have it happen on our weekend, weekend camp where I was able to go out into, like, the public and get it in the ocean wherever you know, everyone around, which is really cool.

00;34;56;05 - 00;35;05;07
Dave Quak
And awesome, especially for someone who was is tempted by withdrawal to get baptized in public at the beach at Berkeley with is hundreds of people.

00;35;05;10 - 00;35;26;26
Zac Morrison
Yeah, being being the center of attention was so and like would drive me insane. Yeah. Like I think from having that I don't like birthdays. I don't like being the center of attention. I don't like celebrating it. Like it just is too much. Yeah. And having everyone just like, do stuff just for me is hard. But but like, yeah, I don't even like that stuff.

00;35;26;26 - 00;35;48;06
Zac Morrison
So I like being able to last year, like coming to that where I had to know, I had to speak in front of everyone as well, which would have absolutely crippled me. Yeah. Three years ago, I wouldn't have been able to stand in front of a group of people and share my story. I would just been blank the whole time and just got to do it.

00;35;48;06 - 00;36;06;24
Zac Morrison
I don't know what to say, because even in the even in the therapy room she was with, the lady was like, alright, cool. Can we can you just say something to me like that you've prepared or something like that? Because I think at the time I was, doing, my wife and I were getting married and she's like.

00;36;06;24 - 00;36;17;12
Zac Morrison
And I'm like, I have to speak in front of all these people. I've got to say my vows. And she's like, well, just wait. Just read them to me. You've got some of your notes, you can read some of it to me. And I just stood there. I just went.

00;36;17;14 - 00;36;18;14
Dave Quak
Yeah, okay.

00;36;18;17 - 00;36;29;15
Zac Morrison
Don't know. Can't do it. I couldn't read in front a one on one in front of someone. So being able to get up and actually, speak to a whole room of people was awesome.

00;36;29;15 - 00;36;30;12
Dave Quak
And awesome, man.

00;36;30;14 - 00;37;05;14
Zac Morrison
Yeah, that was and I just did it without writing anything down. What for? I just went for it off top of my head, which was like the same thing. Not being prepared would have absolutely floored me. But, but yeah, but when after being baptized, it's just I had this wash like, wash over feeling, like things just washing away and just, after that, the majority of my general anxiety just went away.

00;37;05;16 - 00;37;21;24
Zac Morrison
Yeah. And just I remember the week after, like, getting up at church and saying anything would have same thing for me, crippled me. And I just had this non anxious moment of like, I'm going to get up and say something. Yeah. Which in my head wouldn't even pop in my head.

00;37;21;24 - 00;37;21;27
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;37;21;27 - 00;37;35;02
Zac Morrison
That would never, ain't never even been a thing like quieted down. No. No one wants to hear you. And that that moment of like. Oh. And then I just, I remember coming to you often as being like, hey, I know he said something.

00;37;35;02 - 00;37;35;18
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;37;35;20 - 00;37;42;20
Zac Morrison
But it was, you know, that that was really awesome. And that's carried.

00;37;42;22 - 00;37;43;29
Dave Quak
So carry on through.

00;37;44;02 - 00;37;44;21
Zac Morrison


00;37;44;23 - 00;37;51;26
Dave Quak
Because that public declaration, I mean, it's powerful. It sounds like it broke something in, you know, in the spiritual realm or something. Yeah, I like.

00;37;51;29 - 00;37;59;19
Zac Morrison
Because I'm a big, like, I don't do something if I don't agree with it or if I don't.

00;37;59;19 - 00;38;04;09
Dave Quak
Yeah, you'll have done a token baptism or done it for, or anyone else.

00;38;04;13 - 00;38;09;03
Zac Morrison
But I wouldn't like at that time be like, oh, all of a sudden, I'm good. Now. Yeah. And like, it's like a,

00;38;09;05 - 00;38;09;29
Dave Quak
What's integrity.

00;38;09;29 - 00;38;17;08
Zac Morrison
Man? Yeah. Like a a placebo sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. It's like, oh, I'm baptized now. Now I'm okay. Like, I just genuinely felt it and it was just like, oh, this.

00;38;17;12 - 00;38;32;08
Dave Quak
Is it's amazing when the Holy Spirit does that. Hey, and then what about for the other things in your life? Are you still like, I don't know, what is your relationship with God still growing? He's still salivating. The presence of God. What's going on lately? Yes.

00;38;32;08 - 00;38;40;16
Zac Morrison
Our family are really, getting into. Becoming closer with God, like, we. We've just started Sabbath.

00;38;40;23 - 00;38;42;28
Dave Quak
Yeah. And,

00;38;43;00 - 00;39;06;26
Zac Morrison
We try really hard. Like, we're trying really hard to, like, get rid of technologies and stuff and be more focused on, on God and things like that. But, even recently when we went to, we volunteered for the state youth camp, My daughter went and and we went and we were, chaperons. I am not a worship person.

00;39;06;28 - 00;39;09;04
Zac Morrison
I'm like, I'll stand and sing single.

00;39;09;04 - 00;39;10;00
Dave Quak
Worship sort of thing.

00;39;10;00 - 00;39;18;22
Zac Morrison
Yeah. Sung worship. Like, I'm not really like a get into it singing type person. Yeah. I just got like, I'll sing along. I understand what it what it's for.

00;39;18;22 - 00;39;20;26
Dave Quak
I give a song, you'll enjoy it.

00;39;20;26 - 00;39;52;26
Zac Morrison
Like I still enjoy it. It's nice to hear, but I don't like I don't ever feel like I really get into it. Yeah. Like, you know, there's lots of people who really love it and get into it. My wife's one of them, and I just like, And then I went to the we went to the youth camp, and on the last night, you you were preaching on the last night and you said something that really, triggered my, just I got, like, I'm a really, like I'm really self-deprecating, like, super self-deprecating.

00;39;52;26 - 00;40;00;10
Zac Morrison
Like, no matter what I do, it's not good enough in my eyes. Yeah. I got that a lot from previous experience in my life, but.

00;40;00;12 - 00;40;00;27
Dave Quak
Yeah. And.

00;40;00;27 - 00;40;19;22
Zac Morrison
Yeah, but a lot of, like, a lot of people throughout my life, like, no, my family, my family are amazing. But people like peers and, relationships and things like that, like a lot of, like. If it's not absolutely perfect, like, the most perfect it can be, it's bad and you're not good. Yeah.

00;40;19;25 - 00;40;22;09
Dave Quak
And yeah, real hard line kind of like.

00;40;22;10 - 00;40;32;24
Zac Morrison
And a lot of people who are supposed to love me most will like, treated me the worst. Yeah. And when you have that going for like 10 to 12 years.

00;40;33;01 - 00;40;34;26
Dave Quak
Does something deep in your soul, man.

00;40;34;26 - 00;40;44;22
Zac Morrison
Yeah. It's like just you're the, you're the worst person ever. So I'm just like, always like that. And you can do something great and someone will go, oh, that's that's good job. Thanks. And what do you mean like, oh it's nothing.

00;40;44;24 - 00;40;45;25
Dave Quak
Like yeah okay.

00;40;45;26 - 00;41;03;26
Zac Morrison
It's nothing. Because to me I didn't do a good job. I didn't do a fantastic job. I didn't do a perfect job. Therefore it's it's not worth praising. And you were speaking. You were preaching and you went. You said it. Yeah. God does not only love you, he likes you. And that was like I was like oh my God on him.

00;41;03;26 - 00;41;20;16
Zac Morrison
I just never thought of it that way. Because to me, the people I said the people who were supposed to love me most in those instance didn't really treated me like they didn't really treat me like they liked me. So I had this. Yeah, God loves me like, you know. That's right. And because, like, the people who liked me most when my parents,

00;41;20;18 - 00;41;33;28
Zac Morrison
Oh, treated me like they weren't parents. And you think, like, God, they love you. They have to like you. Yeah. And it's that kind of thing with God. You just kind of think he loves you. He has to like you, but not really. Like he delights in, like he likes you.

00;41;34;01 - 00;41;36;14
Dave Quak
And I wasn't. That's the game changer.

00;41;36;16 - 00;41;53;07
Zac Morrison
And then I was just like, oh, and I just throughout all these, like, I just never even thought of it in that way because my, previous experiences in, in that love sort of stuff is that, that particularly like. Yeah, yeah, my wife does, but you know.

00;41;53;09 - 00;41;58;09
Dave Quak
But like like, yeah. The love doesn't always feel like it. Yeah. It's with like.

00;41;58;09 - 00;42;18;07
Zac Morrison
Yeah. It's just like oh yeah. Cool. Yeah. And and I just had this like oh that's. And then the worship started after that and I just was like, oh, I'm going to get up and I'm the get into this. Yeah. And I've just never been into it. And I've just got my arms up and I'm just all of a sudden just having this feeling of just.

00;42;18;09 - 00;42;42;05
Zac Morrison
And then I get these flashes in my brain of I felt terrible and I felt down, or someone had said something to me that hurt my feelings when I'd done something silly. Yeah. And embarrassing. And he was just there smiling. Yes. And just being like, oh, like this. Not, you know, like and like chuckling, but not in, like a, oh, you're such a loser like in this.

00;42;42;08 - 00;42;44;11
Zac Morrison
Yeah. Joy of like, oh this is.

00;42;44;13 - 00;42;45;20
Dave Quak
The affection of my son.

00;42;45;21 - 00;43;03;02
Zac Morrison
This is like yeah. And which is you know like the way obviously my parents probably see me as well. You know what I mean. Like yeah it's that sort of like oh you just you don't I never really looked at it that way. And I was worshiping and it just, you know, just filled me up and you just like.

00;43;03;05 - 00;43;09;13
Zac Morrison
And I was just like, I don't I don't need to be so hard on myself. What I'm doing is good enough.

00;43;09;20 - 00;43;10;07
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;43;10;09 - 00;43;15;26
Zac Morrison
And, I'm trying my best there for. It's good enough. Yes.

00;43;15;26 - 00;43;41;12
Dave Quak
Yeah, exactly. I think you're just touching on something that I feel like God's on earth thing in the church around the world is, you know, once we've been made right with God through the blood of Jesus Christ, it's completely finished. Like, there's no dad anymore, you know? And so, yeah, he likes you, and he loves you. And I love how those circumstances through your life were flashing into your mind.

00;43;41;12 - 00;44;02;16
Dave Quak
And he was looking at you with affection because he was there looking at you with sexual. With affection. Yeah. You just hadn't recognized it yet, you know, decent part of your journey. And even if those people weren't looking at you with affection, they might have been laughing or whatever. His opinion matters more. Hey. Yeah. And so that spurred you to worship, like to.

00;44;02;17 - 00;44;08;20
Zac Morrison
Like, get in. Yeah. Get into it. And it just. Yeah. Like I said. Yeah. The next night it's still. Fill me up. Yeah.

00;44;08;20 - 00;44;09;26
Dave Quak
You got spirit. Yeah.

00;44;09;26 - 00;44;14;10
Zac Morrison
Like it felt good and yeah it just. Yeah.

00;44;14;13 - 00;44;34;08
Dave Quak
But I like the implications of knowing now that God doesn't just love Zach Morrison but he likes him. Yeah. Like, think about the freedom. You got that in your 30s. You get to live that out for the rest of your days. You know. And even, you know, your desire to shut down, that'll start going, you know, and the approval of others that'll start going.

00;44;34;08 - 00;44;41;23
Dave Quak
It's just so good. Once we when we know that God approves of us and loves us and likes us so much.

00;44;41;23 - 00;45;06;04
Zac Morrison
Baggage can drop off. Yeah, because it just causes problems in other areas. Every time you feel like you feel like it's a such as self, like just you, you're dealing with it. You're the only one I'm shutting down. I'm really like, it's quite a selfish, response in my opinion, to like to to things like being just shutting down, like that's not helpful to the family.

00;45;06;04 - 00;45;07;10
Dave Quak
Yeah. That's right.

00;45;07;13 - 00;45;19;24
Zac Morrison
You know, and like, even though you still do it and you're on it like I'm, I'm more aware of it now, but I'm still working on it. Yeah. You still do shut down every now and then when you like, when you don't, when you're in that fight or flight response.

00;45;19;24 - 00;45;20;09
Dave Quak
Yeah, that's it.

00;45;20;09 - 00;45;30;16
Zac Morrison
And you just go like oh this. And then you kind of realize it after that. Yeah. This isn't, you know. Yeah. The right thing to do. And it's just not, it's not found your family and stuff. Yeah.

00;45;30;19 - 00;45;59;20
Dave Quak
Come on anyone. That's right. And it's probably also giving ourselves a little bit to have an inflated view or maybe an inflated importance of our view of ourselves. Like human beings quite skewed in our assessment. Okay. So even our assessment of ourselves and this is one of the problems I think when you think about mental illness and is that some so often we think our opinions about ourselves obviously going to be the correct opinions because we're the ones having them.

00;45;59;20 - 00;46;19;21
Dave Quak
Yeah. You know, it's like it's like, oh, anyone knows me, it's me. Yeah. But in this very scenario, we're actually pegging ourselves against God. So when we are saying to ourselves we're less than or we're useless or, you know, we're not worth listening to or whatever, what we're saying goes against what God's already said, that you are of his son.

00;46;19;21 - 00;46;20;29
Dave Quak
You are valuable.

00;46;21;01 - 00;46;34;17
Zac Morrison
And anytime you do it, it's kind of like it's an insult to him really. Well, he's kind of gone like he because the idea is you're made perfect in any way, and the things can creep in, but you're not, you know, this is this is who you.

00;46;34;17 - 00;46;35;18
Dave Quak
Are, okay? You are.

00;46;35;21 - 00;46;46;24
Zac Morrison
Good. You're perfect person and in his eyes. And what purpose he has for you. Yeah. And saying you're less than is spitting in his face. Really? Well that's.

00;46;46;24 - 00;47;04;09
Dave Quak
It. And because of the journey he's been on, you know that you're not justified because of your goodness or your deeds or anything. Exactly. So it's been a really epic chat, and I really appreciate you coming in to share with us. Is there anything else you would like to let us know before we call it a day?

00;47;04;11 - 00;47;09;08
Zac Morrison
No, I just I think the if you're struggling with anything, just let people help you.

00;47;09;12 - 00;47;09;23
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;47;09;29 - 00;47;22;00
Zac Morrison
That was my wife helped me tremendously. And that's where I began to heal. So, just let let the people help.

00;47;22;03 - 00;47;22;14
Dave Quak
Whoever.

00;47;22;22 - 00;47;26;29
Zac Morrison
Heaven knows about whoever's noticing something about you. Let them. Let them help you.

00;47;27;02 - 00;47;48;25
Dave Quak
Yeah, yeah. Awesome. And look, part of that is why we want to cultivate this community at some souls is to get the discussion happening and form a community of like minded believers that, at that intersection of faith and mental health. So if you found this helpful, please send it to friends who you think might benefit from hearing Zach's story.

00;47;48;27 - 00;47;57;08
Dave Quak
But all in all, thank you sir. Thank you. God bless you mate and have a fantastic week brother. Thanks.

00;47;57;10 - 00;48;20;23
Dave Quak
For more candid conversations on faith and mental well-being, check out some bentos.com. You can subscribe to our podcast on any major provider, or contact us directly to book us to preach or speak. Somebody at souls is a faith based ministry, and we want to thank everybody so far for their generous support. If you want to get behind us, pray our message reaches the ears of those that need to hear it.

00;48;20;25 - 00;48;34;12
Dave Quak
Feel free to donate financially online, but if you feel obliged or manipulated to give you better off shouting a loved one a coffee instead. I'm Dave Clark from Somewhere Souls.

00;48;34;14 - 00;48;34;23
Dave Quak
Who?