Radical Compassion with Jon Owen- Wayside Chapel

00;00;01;09 - 00;00;27;20
Dave Quak 
Welcome to Sunburnt Souls. I'm Dave Quak and on this show we explore life and faith and our mental well-being. As a pastor that struggles with mental illness, I get to chat to people like me, people that love Jesus and follow the way of Christ while dealing with the messiness and brokenness of lives. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode.

00;00;27;22 - 00;00;39;02
Dave Quak 
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for being here this morning. You are blessed to have John Owen from Wayside Chapel joining us this morning. So, John, thank you so much for coming on Sunburned Souls.

00;00;39;05 - 00;00;44;19
Jon Owen
What an honor it is to be invited to prattle on with you day.

00;00;44;22 - 00;01;02;15
Dave Quak 
Now I would I actually got to be honest, I feel like a bit of a stalker because I'm pretty new to this, so I'm researching the death. So I know so much about you. I feel like I know a little bit too much about you. And when you Google John Allen, you'll either get yourself or a 16th century English theologian.

00;01;02;15 - 00;01;16;05
Dave Quak 
And so since I can assure everybody that you're not English nor dead, nor from the 16th century, we're talking about John Allen from Wayside Chapel. Brother, would you mind just starting us off telling this a little bit about yourself?

00;01;16;07 - 00;01;49;09
Jon Owen
Sure. Yeah. Look, you know, don't Google. It's very dangerous now that it is, are out there. So I'm not a, Olympian downhill skiing, nor am I a yes politician or the peer and theologian. Probably the opposite of a Puritan theologian. But now I'm and, if there was audio video attached to this audio, you'd you'd say that, I certainly when the name John Allen gets said, you don't, conjure up, and a Sri Lankan Indian face, even though my accent may betray what I physically appear to be looked like.

00;01;49;15 - 00;02;14;14
Jon Owen
So I look, I'm, nearly 50 years old. I've been in ministry since I was about 20, 21 years old. Was really kind of on a bit of a soul search myself. Being raised in a Christian family, a first generation immigrant family from Malaysia where I was born and kind of just got captured by this Jesus character and the way he led his life.

00;02;14;14 - 00;02;39;20
Jon Owen
And I always focus on the fact that he never asked to be worshiped. He only asked to be followed. Yeah. And so that's kind of the path I've set my life on is and I don't want to say I set my life on this. Too many singular pronouns in there. I want to say I'm very lucky to have been able to pursue that, that followership in the context of having some just amazing people around me.

00;02;39;24 - 00;02;52;09
Jon Owen
Yeah. That's awesome. You know who, just wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for some of those spiritual elders and the great clan of witnesses that saw things in me that, I didn't even see in myself.

00;02;52;11 - 00;03;10;24
Dave Quak 
Yeah. That's amazing. It is. It is interesting you bring up the accent, John, because you do sound like one of the biggest talkers on the planet. Your accent is brilliant. Only beaten by your friend Stu Cameron. He's he's the only other one I remember at your ordination. He even lets you up, and he's like, doesn't he look Schmidt?

00;03;10;26 - 00;03;23;05
Dave Quak 
Like, just the way you said it. I'm like country Australian all the way, but, yeah, with Malaysian descent. You know, I loved on your TEDx talk, you made that joke saying that they'd given you a skin colored microphone.

00;03;23;07 - 00;03;41;17
Jon Owen
Yeah. Look, they always use because. Yeah, the first time I ever had one of those head actually was in Queensland when I was preaching. They gave me one of those headsets. I felt like Madonna stage. And, that shows how old I am. Just, you know, the techie. They usually, they really good at mixing the EQ levels on the desk, but they don't actually possess any EQ themselves.

00;03;41;20 - 00;03;47;16
Jon Owen
Okay. And, and, he just said, oh, it's a flesh colored mike. Okay. My, my not my flesh.

00;03;47;17 - 00;03;58;05
Dave Quak 
Yeah, yeah, I love it, brother. I think that's what drew me to you, John, as you take the mission to God seriously. But you don't take you tell yourself too seriously. You know, you have fun in the process.

00;03;58;11 - 00;04;24;27
Jon Owen
You know, when you break through the Gospels, particularly the Gospel of Luke, where it's just mile after mile after mile, you think I were just sitting around just, having a boring old checking session or, you know, there's crazy attempts at parents to connect with teenagers on phones, kinds of dinners that would have been laid back. And, you know, if you've ever been on a mission with a bunch of friends, you get to the end of the day and you kind of you rip apart your meal and you just roll with laughter.

00;04;24;27 - 00;04;43;26
Jon Owen
I've been really privileged to journey with some people who, you know, at the end of the day, I just some of the funniest people. And, you know, often when you're dealing with a lot of pain and struggle in your life is humor is a survival tool and a survival technique, but it also reminds us of that joy. There's great joy in following Christ.

00;04;43;28 - 00;05;07;25
Jon Owen
And, you know, often people will hear facts about the lifestyle like, you know, for 20 years, I was in an organization that took on lifestyle commitments of poverty, service and obedience, and we moved into neighborhoods that, had, significant, statistics relating to generational poverty and disadvantage. And do you know what? It was the most fun 20 years of my life.

00;05;07;25 - 00;05;30;15
Jon Owen
Yeah. You know, and the time hanging out with people who was sleeping rough and people who, you know, leaders in the Aboriginal community, some of the most powerful, profound, and yet just absolutely hilarious times of life. I love that, you know, there's more to do in a man. There's a lot of joy. I mean, a lot more fun than sitting in an office slaving away 9 to 5, let me tell you.

00;05;30;19 - 00;05;39;07
Dave Quak 
Now, it really is. And it's a lot more fun than the four walls of a church. You like getting out there and getting messy. So it was at the Western Sydney, based on what?

00;05;39;14 - 00;05;56;04
Jon Owen
Western Sydney wearing them. We were in Springvale, so that's in the south eastern suburbs of Melbourne. You know, most people, particularly once you get interview on podcasts, say that they went to India and had a spiritual awakening. Right. But then I went to Dandenong.

00;05;56;06 - 00;06;13;25
Jon Owen
That's like, I know an hour. It is. Yeah. To have a spiritual awakening. That's really where I saw the essence of life. You know, what's what, what matters, what doesn't matter how much of life is built with ego or gender and pretense building. And you get to the areas where life is just lived for, you know, survival. Why?

00;06;13;27 - 00;06;44;03
Jon Owen
My discipleship flourished when I moved from what you would call leisure class questions around comfort. Because the enemy of faith isn't struggle, it's comfort. Right? But then so many people bring to their faith leisure class questions like, God help me to achieve this, helped me to attain that. Whereas when you are survival level questions, that's where you discipleship really begins to grow and build and you really grapple with the story and the person and the message and the example that Jesus was.

00;06;44;03 - 00;06;45;11
Jon Owen
Yeah. And the hope that he brings.

00;06;45;17 - 00;07;04;20
Dave Quak 
Yeah. And in that area, it needs Jesus. I actually worked I didn't know you were there, but I worked at the Dandenong Shopping Center in a surf store called Jenks back in the day. And part of our daily routine was chasing people down the street who'd stolen something. And then I had a friend who, went to the boxing gym in Harlem.

00;07;04;22 - 00;07;12;18
Dave Quak 
And I'm not a physically strong guy. And I went there and all of a scared man, there was some real badass. Is there? Like, it's a pretty it's a pretty rough area.

00;07;12;20 - 00;07;33;03
Jon Owen
Right? To work in the needle and syringe exchange in Dandenong. Right? Right, right, right near the train station. And yeah, you know, my my godson grew up there. And so yeah, it's a very a place it's really precious to my heart. We were living in Springvale. Yeah. Right. As well and I, and I did my, social work placement at the, the Dandenong South Eastern Region Migrant Resource Center.

00;07;33;03 - 00;07;37;05
Jon Owen
So we've got we've got that we probably, you know, each other because we're about Gen X, I reckon.

00;07;37;07 - 00;07;43;03
Dave Quak 
Yeah I know right. And then Doveton. Doveton down the road, that's another hairy place as well you know.

00;07;43;03 - 00;08;01;29
Jon Owen
Yeah. About ten. And you remembering my what is the, lived in a small, intentional Christian community out there in Doveton and, you know, I was reaching out to the community there. So, you know, we've, we certainly have, I love the way God brings people together and. Yeah, yeah, you know, they're just friends and family we haven't met yet.

00;08;02;01 - 00;08;06;23
Dave Quak 
Yeah. That's it, brother. And so you went from there and was, Western Sydney after that, was it?

00;08;06;26 - 00;08;29;26
Jon Owen
Yeah. So my story is basically, you know, I was growing up in a Christian family, a lot of expectations in a, in an immigrant family. I also got to say, most people's stories, you know, there's some sort of deep trauma or sadness or adversity that's, Yeah, more stories in that way. Might. The only thing I want to share with people is my story is so ordinary.

00;08;29;28 - 00;08;31;18
Jon Owen
Right. And there's something good about that.

00;08;31;21 - 00;08;32;20
Dave Quak 
Yeah, there is.

00;08;32;22 - 00;08;51;02
Jon Owen
A my heart breaks when someone grows up in a situation of abuse or neglect and has significant trauma. But, you know, my heart rejoices where they're able to overcome it, like at the people who can overcome it. And that's where I spend a lot of my time. But you know what? I'm just an average Joe and, you know, was captured by this Jesus fella.

00;08;51;02 - 00;09;10;22
Jon Owen
I was growing up in a Christian family. Got to about 18 or 19, was thinking, is this my faith or my family's faith? You know, someone once said in this sermon, God doesn't have any grandkids. And I said, what does that mean? That I think the point was it's you. It's got to be your faith or, you know, your your son or daughter or child of God.

00;09;10;24 - 00;09;36;19
Jon Owen
You know, it can be your, you know, my mom and dad. You know them, right? So I thought, let's give it a go. And did some beach missions. Really began to catch a for what God was doing in the world. And, the way you can use your gifts and talents to serve, what God's doing. And it was from then every next step got into uni, nearly finished uni was absolutely miserable with the course that my mum had chosen for me to study.

00;09;36;21 - 00;09;58;24
Jon Owen
Had a year to run and, you know, kind of said God is, is that all there is? You know, because a pretty good coin, a job I'd walk into. And I thought, is that what it's about? You know, just, you know, having a 2.3 kids and, you know, making sure they go through church and Sunday school the way I did and, you know, keep putting money in the plate because, you know, that's pretty boring.

00;09;58;24 - 00;10;14;19
Jon Owen
And I can just give you the money without giving you my heart. So, you know, I kind of had this opportunity to take a big risk. And the way you do that, you know, sometimes God always answers in the ways you don't expect to say, God, you know, if there's something more out there, please, please don't be quiet.

00;10;14;21 - 00;10;34;02
Jon Owen
And, you know, series of events happened in these person came and spoke at the youth group I was leading, and, and they said, oh, we pursue, you know, this kind of weird lifestyle where we, you know, move into a community together, share our homes, taking people off the streets. And. Yeah, and just try and follow Jesus as best we can.

00;10;34;02 - 00;10;55;28
Jon Owen
And and so we did go got a two week course coming up. So I, I said, mum, dad, I'm going to do a two week course. And I didn't go back for 20 years and I just fell in love with the work that Urban Neighbors of Hope was doing. And, you know, there's a couple that started at Aston and Burke and they've just been traveling through Queensland promoting seed beds.

00;10;55;28 - 00;11;15;14
Jon Owen
I live in the UK that, over a decade in a slum, in Bangkok as well. So on us, you know, just, sparked a whole lot of things. And, that was just a real eye opener into, why God put me in here. You know, the purposes for my life. And so, you know, I began to, taking, guys off the street.

00;11;15;16 - 00;11;36;00
Jon Owen
And then I met a young woman who was also working for the same organization, and she was taking in women who were taking a break from family and domestic violence in the hope that that would make some more permanent moves to leave. But, you know, sometimes they did, sometimes they didn't. And, you know, we we fell in love and, got married.

00;11;36;00 - 00;11;56;09
Jon Owen
And then, after our honeymoon, we ended up, renting a open home for, men who were seeking asylum. Yeah, in that space. And then we were leading the team down in Springvale, and then we were, you know, invited to start a team up in western Sydney. We're actually looking all over the country and and saying, you know what?

00;11;56;09 - 00;12;19;06
Jon Owen
Where are the sorts of communities where we can see God working in some of the most unlikely places? So, yeah, you know, we checked out Logan City, we checked in, Woodridge in, In Allah and, as well as a whole bunch of places around Adelaide. And but God really spoke to us in western Sydney and, you know, quite separately, we both felt the kind of invitation to be my people in this place.

00;12;19;06 - 00;12;19;22
Jon Owen
And I.

00;12;19;22 - 00;12;20;17
Dave Quak 
Love it.

00;12;20;19 - 00;12;42;08
Jon Owen
Yeah. It was, really beautiful. And then, you know, as we we got there, someone whispered in my ear, he said, never be so arrogant to think. It's as if you're you're showing up and bringing God in your back pocket. Your job is to actually get into the neighborhood and shut up. Yeah. And here, where the whispers of the spirit of spoken promises over these lands and for the time you are in that place is to help drive them forward.

00;12;42;08 - 00;12;45;28
Jon Owen
Just a little, little step or two and then hand it over to whoever's next.

00;12;45;28 - 00;12;47;00
Dave Quak 
That's an awesome word.

00;12;47;02 - 00;13;08;04
Jon Owen
It was such deep wisdom from a a big, big American jujitsu kind of preacher. You know, John Jensen is on us. I was a minister in Australia for about a decade or so down in Melbourne, and, he's back in the States now, but yeah, really, like I said, just been really lucky to have the right people come into my life at the right time.

00;13;08;04 - 00;13;34;19
Jon Owen
And so ministries look like youth ministry, taking in kids off the street, man off the street, women off the street. And we had three daughters. So mostly we're taking women and young girls off the streets who needed a little break. Most who were friends in the neighborhoods we were in, the neighborhood we were living in. And, that led to some prison chaplaincy for my wife and bit of involvement in juvie and then in the local high school as well as I got a bit of a passion for men's ministry.

00;13;34;19 - 00;13;51;17
Jon Owen
Yeah, women's group. And then our kids were getting a bit older and they said, you know, is it alright if we can we hit the house a bit more quiet as we go through high school. And, we said, okay, let's see how that all works out, because clearly was saying it's time to finish up. And yeah, we ended up, you know, saying, okay, God, what's next?

00;13;51;17 - 00;14;08;22
Jon Owen
And then within two days, this opportunity came up to be at wayside. Now that their kids had finished high school, we realized what a lie they were telling us this be the quiet. I didn't do a thing, John. Of homework. Yeah, at all. So, But it was a great way that God speaks through the foolishness. I.

00;14;08;25 - 00;14;24;24
Dave Quak 
I love it, man. I love to how God just does these building blocks, you know, like what you're doing in Victoria led to what you're doing in Western Sydney, and then what you're doing at wayside now, like, especially around the meals, you guys play out a lot of meals at wayside.

00;14;24;27 - 00;14;44;17
Jon Owen
Yeah. Look, you know, I think it was, Epictetus said, to eat alone is the act of an animal. Yeah, right. You know, we're communal beings and we're meant to eat together. And the shortest distance between two people is over shared meal. That's true. And I once had an, Aboriginal woman say to me, you know, in the in a ray version of a bone to.

00;14;44;17 - 00;15;03;14
Jon Owen
She said, you are who you eat with. Yeah. And look, it's very instructive. You know, you go to most communities that would have a rip in a neighborhood. They would have a lot of police or social work or state involvement with them and go down to the food court at lunchtime, and you'll see you see the segments. No one's mixing to share their meal.

00;15;03;14 - 00;15;14;10
Jon Owen
Right? Yeah. It's the cops will eat with the cops and the social workers will eat the social workers in that their clients. And so, you know, what I love is just to be able to share a meal because it's a humanizing moment.

00;15;14;11 - 00;15;15;05
Dave Quak 
It really is.

00;15;15;05 - 00;15;26;05
Jon Owen
You know, I can eat, right? That's, God's gift to me ministries being able to eat. And so, use it. Well, you know, if you have a good faith. Yeah. God's got plans for you. All right.

00;15;26;07 - 00;15;32;12
Dave Quak 
Yeah. Absolutely. Right. I can eat in Jesus name. And if Jesus was accused of being a glutton, he must have been doing a fair bit of eating.

00;15;32;12 - 00;15;53;25
Jon Owen
That's right. Exactly. And so, you know, it's like, well, I may you know. Yeah. That's it. I don't I worship me because I can't sing beside myself. Right. It's you know, I can eat. Yes. And I can laugh and I can hang out with the people Jesus hung out with and. Yeah, you know, and, love Charles Spurgeon said that, one beggar helping another bigot find bread.

00;15;53;27 - 00;16;16;29
Jon Owen
I, you know, and just keeping that focus in mind, just staying humble. So when a kid grows up, you know, pretty or a person grows up in a pretty difficult community, you know, they've they've got a social worker in their life, they go to corrections officer, a truancy officer or, well, they probably don't exist anymore. They've got police officers, they got nurses and doctors.

00;16;16;29 - 00;16;23;01
Jon Owen
And when they ask the question, who is my neighbor hood? The answer be you a Christian?

00;16;23;01 - 00;16;23;17
Dave Quak 
Yeah.

00;16;23;19 - 00;16;43;27
Jon Owen
And how do we create opportunities for more and more people to see their calls as being called not overseas? I mean, that's right. If you want to go there, they they're most countries overseas doing a better job of spreading the gospel and then, sending people over at the moment. So it's like, how can we go and how can you use me in this community is with the kid next door.

00;16;43;28 - 00;16;46;23
Jon Owen
Yeah. You know, who's who's looking for a something different?

00;16;46;28 - 00;16;47;11
Dave Quak 
Yeah.

00;16;47;11 - 00;17;09;07
Jon Owen
One of the most powerful things in our ministry. You know, our actions speak silently to, you know, people kind of hear what we say. Yeah. Yeah, well, this is one story where, right at the beginning of when Lisa was pregnant, you know, she was eight months pregnant and were living in these small flats. And we heard the old familiar sound of, sadly, family and domestic violence.

00;17;09;09 - 00;17;28;08
Jon Owen
A husband was lying into his wife and. And Lisa ran right into the middle, eight months pregnant, put her arms up and said, stop, stop, stop it, because I love you both. Right? And then that was kind of a really pivotal moment. I mean, I looked down from the balcony. She'd somehow moved in quicker than me. I was frozen because I'm a chicken.

00;17;28;08 - 00;17;46;08
Jon Owen
Yeah. And just so. Well, this is a Christlike love, right? To summarize, anyone in that space that just said, I'm reaching out my arms in love to you both. And but it was a real turning moment. And she said later on to the woman, you like, he's going to go, right? And she was straight up. She said, but what about my kids?

00;17;46;08 - 00;18;06;05
Jon Owen
You know, who's going to care for my kids? And we said, we're here, right? We are one big family. And they said, flats. And so she she had the courage. She got him to move out, you know, 6 or 7 years later and we all became the same family. And 6 or 7 years later we said at a men's Bible study and and she the woman said, come and invite my ex.

00;18;06;13 - 00;18;24;03
Jon Owen
So I, knocked on his door because he was only two blocks down. Right? These communities are small. Yeah. And, he started coming along right. And and he said, you know, while I'm willing because he's, you know, in a lot of these neighborhoods, people have grown up in churches all their lives and, some more traditional forms of worship.

00;18;24;03 - 00;18;30;25
Jon Owen
He said, you know what? I've been watching you guys, and after eight years, I think you might just believe what you talk about.

00;18;30;25 - 00;18;32;03
Dave Quak 
Yeah. Come on, right there.

00;18;32;03 - 00;18;56;05
Jon Owen
Watching it lives. In an example, when we were running that, open home, when we had three girls, the house was full of girls. It was a absolutely pink playpen for health. Right. And, you know, because a lot of the kids would come over to our oldest daughters in, in big families, have to spend a lot of time caring for siblings as well as the moms, so they often skip phases of their childhood.

00;18;56;05 - 00;19;12;14
Jon Owen
So there was a lot of aggressive play that was going on in the house. So you have a 13 year old girl. He could be straight, smart, would survive, knew how to navigate police and yeah, in a hospital system. But you know couple of dolls and they'd be playing like a little kid. And it was, you know, a healing kind of play.

00;19;12;14 - 00;19;33;06
Jon Owen
And one day I walked in and there was about 14 kids in the house, and I just spoke across the room to Lisa, said something like, have you seen my case? But I raise my voice all right to do it. What happened next? Like, I'll never forget. Two kids ran out screaming at the door and ran home. One girls jumped onto the couch and the others just froze.

00;19;33;08 - 00;19;33;25
Dave Quak 
Yeah, right.

00;19;33;25 - 00;19;52;08
Jon Owen
Here. Because sadly for many of them, when they're in a household and a man raises his voice, that's a key to disappear or become invisible or get the hell out. All right. And so we had so many people just watching our lives to say, you know, they talk about Jesus, they talk about God. But how does that make a difference?

00;19;52;08 - 00;19;52;24
Dave Quak 
Yeah.

00;19;52;26 - 00;20;09;28
Jon Owen
To how they live their lives. So are they treating their as any different? Yeah. He says that everyone's created in God's image. Does that really cash it and how he treats his children and his wife and he misses. So it's a beautiful form of ministry. At another level, I want to give everyone a real encouragement. You know what?

00;20;10;01 - 00;20;17;25
Jon Owen
It doesn't take that much energy goes, yeah, you can do it in your own home. Yeah, you can do ministry. It's the lazy man's guide to ministry.

00;20;17;25 - 00;20;23;27
Dave Quak 
Amen. I need, I need permission from a board or some sort of strategic plan. Just get somebody over and cook.

00;20;24;00 - 00;20;25;15
Jon Owen
Correct. You can even burn it.

00;20;25;21 - 00;20;27;04
Dave Quak 
You can burn it. They'll be happy.

00;20;27;07 - 00;20;32;00
Jon Owen
My home ministry is doing things so badly that people jump in my lap. That's the best story of Stone soup.

00;20;32;01 - 00;21;01;21
Dave Quak 
Oh, that's. That's a genius move. That's a genius, right? That is, and I appreciate to you talking about the longevity of community, too. Like when I was researching wayside. I love looking at the photos from now from the 80s, from earlier, like just the progression that it's still just embedded in that community, faithfully staying there. You know, I, I don't know if this is my speculation, but I think a lot of ministries might have started there and moved out of the city, or it's just a harder demographic.

00;21;01;21 - 00;21;19;15
Dave Quak 
Okay, so what do I learn about King's Cross as a teenager? Was everything I learned on TV, as we all do, mostly from two hands. The movie with Heath ledger. You've probably talked about that a million times, but I know that's where you used to be able to go to get a prostitute, some coke, have a bit of fun and whatever else.

00;21;19;15 - 00;21;26;06
Dave Quak 
What's the demographic of King's Cross like now? Because it's only like two kilometers from the CBD, right?

00;21;26;11 - 00;21;44;21
Jon Owen
Yeah. Look, the story and the history and the reality are always changing and evolving. So yeah. Yeah, what people remember of King's Cross, you know, it's probably, you know, I would have no idea what the reality of Fortitude Valley is right now, but I know its reputation is one that, is probably not reflective of who it is today.

00;21;44;21 - 00;22;04;20
Jon Owen
Yeah. This area has been the kind of center of activity from the 60s, 70s. Heroin flooded in. We have a walk down the bottom of the hill here where, Vietnam vets brought heroin first to Australia. And so this became the kind of the center of the drug and crime capital. Yeah. New South Wales corrupt coppers were running through here.

00;22;04;20 - 00;22;25;01
Jon Owen
The nightclubs, 60 streets. Yeah. A lot of street, sex work occurred here before the legalization. It's the place where that young Thomas Kelly took his last breath. And that kind of changed the face of King's Cross with their lockout laws, which, you know, we still talk about to this day. So it's very different. Street sex work is been legalized.

00;22;25;07 - 00;22;42;03
Jon Owen
I've only been propositioned once on the street. She said, you know, would you like the company of a lady for the next, next hour? And I said, oh, look, my apologies. I'm, I'm the local minister here. And she said, don't worry, darling, I'm not that fussy.

00;22;42;06 - 00;22;42;18
Jon Owen
Well, you're a.

00;22;42;18 - 00;22;48;17
Dave Quak 
Good looking man, John. Maybe they've got a picture around saying, don't hit this guy up, because I'm sure it's not only once, but because of you.

00;22;48;23 - 00;23;09;20
Jon Owen
Yeah. Look, so it's very different now, but yeah, it's, but it's got a really powerful story that we're a part of. You know, I often say, why? So it isn't the answer to the questions of a dying church. Yeah, it is the response to the cries of the hearts of our neighborhood. In our community. You can big brown say whatever you want, but don't just assume that you're planted in your community and it'll flourish.

00;23;09;22 - 00;23;28;23
Jon Owen
And I want to do the work of listening. Right. And where's God at work and continue with that. So caring for, street sex workers and transgender sex workers has been a part of our story. You know, through the 90s, this was the height of the Aids epidemic and that we were right in the center of it all, caring for people.

00;23;28;25 - 00;23;47;14
Jon Owen
The heroin crisis in the 90s, where the the paper up was publishing The Road Toll and One Corner and the heroin toll on the other, and now at keeping pace with each other. Oh, wow. So we opened up before my time, the medically supervised injecting center, which was an act of civil disobedience. But we just wanted to stop people dying.

00;23;47;16 - 00;24;04;27
Jon Owen
And so how do we respond to whatever the need of the day is? And right now, some of the issues. Yes, it's rough sleeping. Yes, it's addiction. But I guess the core of it is this loneliness that we're all experiencing in disconnection. So we have our mission is about let's create community with no us and them, because that's the only you know.

00;24;04;27 - 00;24;22;25
Jon Owen
Unfortunately, community has become pseudo community, but we all look the same and smell the same and eat the same food. And we are beginning to get so fearful of others and outsiders. You know, we want to be a sign and a symbol of what the kingdom will look like when when God comes back.

00;24;23;02 - 00;24;43;10
Dave Quak 
Yeah, I love it. And sometimes we can mistakenly think what happens on Sunday is a representation of that, you know, when it comes to a Sunday service, I've watched a couple of yours and they're the size of a regular Australian Sunday service. But as you punch above your weight from Monday to Saturday, that's where I think that happens.

00;24;43;14 - 00;24;48;25
Dave Quak 
You know, the real kingdom advances and the real community is built. Like you guys really punch above your weight.

00;24;49;01 - 00;25;06;18
Jon Owen
You know, I'll make a little confession here is I, I always joke that my wife never makes me a cake on my birthday. And the reason is, I hate cake. Oh, right. Right. But I love the icing. Right. And I remember one, one of the people here made me a container full of icing. I, I didn't know, feels right.

00;25;06;20 - 00;25;33;27
Jon Owen
Why do I share that with your Sunday worship time is the icing on the cake. Right. The cake is your shared life for the other 6 or 7 days, the way you are on mission together in your community, in your neighborhoods, serving God through serving others right. And then, then, then there's this thing on Sunday, 20 people might come 120 people, like, it is the icing on the cake.

00;25;33;27 - 00;25;53;11
Jon Owen
Right where we've made the mistake is we've thrown at the cake and we're just trying to make prettier and sweeter and better icing, not realizing why, poisoning ourselves with that icing. Yeah. And there's no amount of icing that can ever make up for the last amount of icing ahead. And need to say it is just the top layer of what God's doing in this community.

00;25;53;11 - 00;25;58;22
Jon Owen
Yeah. You know, if he ever made a mistake, it's got no substance. It's got no form beyond that.

00;25;58;28 - 00;26;02;10
Dave Quak 
I love it. And like you said, it can make you sick if you have too much of a good thing. Right?

00;26;02;10 - 00;26;03;01
Jon Owen
100%.

00;26;03;04 - 00;26;32;19
Dave Quak 
I know for myself, if the cake's not there, I feel bored. I have a very white middle class. I literally live on a cul de sac, so it's literally like I have the cul de sac where western middle class white guy life, where the kids ride their bikes around in circles and we all stand around having a beer and a chat and it's fine, but it's also like boring in a sense, John, like where I just feel like I need something where, okay, so we pray, come on, Holy Spirit, you need to give me courage.

00;26;32;19 - 00;26;53;12
Dave Quak 
You need to give me something to get through this circumstance or situation. But so much of my life is so vanilla that I almost don't have to work in the power of the Holy Spirit, because it's just existing, doing church stuff, you know, there's so much more to be done, there's so much more excitement. And you mentioned earlier you got a passion for men.

00;26;53;12 - 00;27;16;00
Dave Quak 
I sometimes wonder, and I get afraid for my son, who's 15, growing up in faith, that he needs to see something that's sort of like scary or pushes him or something to to die for, like something to put his life into. And I sometimes do worry that the representation he he may get of church isn't gonna scratch that itch.

00;27;16;03 - 00;27;39;09
Jon Owen
You know? Send him down, am I right? Well, I will shake you about, but it's not about, you know, necessarily showing your kids dangerous things, but it's about giving them that kind of that light on the hill there that's, that life to aspire to. And I know that's, there's a special journey in men's work and men's spirituality that we all need to be aware of is we need to dream pretty wild and crazy dreams, right?

00;27;39;11 - 00;27;49;07
Jon Owen
Yeah. And, as young as young people, we need that kind of you. If you dream is to become a TikTok influencer, might get thrown in. Yeah, right.

00;27;49;14 - 00;27;50;03
Dave Quak 
Yeah. That's right.

00;27;50;06 - 00;28;08;21
Jon Owen
There are dreams out there. Dreams are for the for the making this world a better place, right? Yeah. They're the ones God puts on your heart. And you know, you know what they are. And it's really important. Two things. One, that you share your dreams with with non idiots. Yeah. People who are going to say that's impossible and people are going to go, come on, come on, do it right and surround them with people.

00;28;08;21 - 00;28;29;07
Jon Owen
And then they saw histories littered with wonderful pioneers. You know, for me they were Dorothy Day, Mother Theresa. Yeah, yeah. Kagura of Japan, you know, these people that just gave it all up and gave their lives away to serve others, right. And so you need to one thing, share it with non idiots who are just going to nurture those dreams and hold you to them.

00;28;29;08 - 00;28;46;25
Jon Owen
Right? The second thing is, don't ever confuse them with goals. So many people, you ask them what are they dreams. And I just give you a list of goals and say, come on man, throw those out. Yeah, I mean keep them going. But you know, they they're not dreams. Yeah, right. Dreams scare you a little bit. Dreams make you realize you need God to be able to even.

00;28;47;00 - 00;29;01;27
Jon Owen
And you need others to make them come true. Where am I going? To them. I got a call to go with. And no more are these John Wayne dreams for the kingdom. You. Now I'm going to ride off into the distance alone. But it's. You know, who am I in? Who's in mind? And where are we headed?

00;29;01;27 - 00;29;22;11
Dave Quak 
I love that you'll roll, John. You'll. It says you'll pastor NCO and I understand the pastor side of things. Yeah. How do you balance being the CEO of something you know, with so many moving parts? Is part of it what you just answered? Like you shoot towards dreams rather than goals because CEO conjures up, you know, business plans and strategic stuff in my mind.

00;29;22;13 - 00;29;25;16
Dave Quak 
How do you interpret that differently with what you guys are doing?

00;29;25;18 - 00;29;57;28
Jon Owen
Yeah. Look it's really both. Yeah. So I've got that pastoral side where hopefully I get to spend some time hearing people's dreams and kind of helping, you know, rub over the wounds of discontent. Yeah. It's like something new. Yeah. Well, what's going on? But I'm also, you know, this is a seven day a week ministry with 145 staff as well as, 300 active volunteers and as fundraising budgets and targets, as well as has to comply with ICAC and, every royal commission finding.

00;29;57;28 - 00;30;12;27
Jon Owen
And so there's a there's a business side to it as well. So you know, it's a bit of both. And look I would, would I love to throw that side in and just go straight into the ministry. Absolutely. But see that's part of I don't know if it's happening up in Queensland, but it's certainly true of the rest of the countries.

00;30;13;00 - 00;30;35;27
Jon Owen
You know, a few years ago we had these churches and churches were linked into their communities, and then we went to too many conferences and we stopped calling ourselves like, you know, Bridgeman Baptist. We started calling ourselves Brook waters. And, you know, and so you're driving to an A when I was there, itinerant preaches to drive around the place and say, where's the Baptist church in this neighborhood?

00;30;35;27 - 00;30;54;20
Jon Owen
The guy. It's just down the road. Yeah. You know, and, you know, then you'd pull out and you'd go with, rippling waters and they go, what the hell are you talking about? The massage parlor down the road, you know, and he's like, what? There's no connection to community anymore. But then also we had this compliance aspect and the look on Rich saying, because we're away, so I travel.

00;30;54;23 - 00;31;14;23
Jon Owen
It's, which we totally the founder ripped off a place he found in Texas. But in the case started and every community was involved in its neighborhood. All right. Yeah. And we had, connections there. We were from our neighborhood. We didn't go to suburbs away to go to church. We're connected in there. Yeah. And, you know, all our ministries were around care and community.

00;31;14;25 - 00;31;36;27
Jon Owen
Right. And that meals. And then all of a sudden all this compliance came in and these care homes for the church were formed. And and then they said, look, there's so much compliance. How about we take care of that? You take care of worship and we separate the two. Yeah. And it looked like a great deal. And it it ripped the heart and of of the body.

00;31;36;27 - 00;31;56;24
Jon Owen
Yeah. You know if our congregations are the pumping heart and the body and the ministry of the hands and feet, they separated the two. And then we wonder why we're doing. Yeah. Or I wonder why we did. So it's attention. And I think so much more ministry training needs to let's just teach the basics of what we need to learn to be able to be ministers.

00;31;57;02 - 00;32;19;03
Jon Owen
But let's preach the disciplines or what it takes to stay in that tension. So we don't lose connection with the heart. And so otherwise we should just give everyone training to ministry a six week course, insanity, palliative care. And yeah, but we do them for our people and that's what we're doing for our churches. And so we in a couple of areas at the end, in a couple of years in the minimum, that's all we need.

00;32;19;09 - 00;32;33;10
Jon Owen
Otherwise if we want to really stand up as ministers, we will we will stand in that tension and say, I will refuse to let our mission and our worship separate. Yes. All right. It's a it's a it's a painful place to be relevant.

00;32;33;10 - 00;32;34;16
Dave Quak 
Yeah. It is, it is.

00;32;34;17 - 00;32;37;11
Jon Owen
It's nice to have a place to be then in the middle of God's will for your life.

00;32;37;18 - 00;32;59;14
Dave Quak 
I know that's right. And and just because it seems messy and confrontational is sometimes why we avoid it. Like I look at sometimes some of the church services. Now I'm even the pasta. So I'm guilty of this myself. But if stuff starts happening that's out of the box. You know, you can just see the people looking round. Maybe there's someone who's got some mental health issues making some noise or whatever.

00;32;59;16 - 00;33;22;07
Dave Quak 
Our tolerance for discomfort when it comes to anything church related has gotten very, very low. You know, like, I can imagine when Paul was preaching, I mean, people have fallen out the window and dying like there's people yelling out this thing, you know, like it was not. I just don't see it as Rose. And I just don't see that as the optimum expression of what it means to follow Jesus.

00;33;22;08 - 00;33;26;14
Jon Owen
We encourage heckling at a congregation.

00;33;26;17 - 00;33;32;02
Dave Quak 
I know I watch a service of yours, and a lady was yelling out. And then there's also on the song with it.

00;33;32;04 - 00;33;50;27
Jon Owen
Yeah, I it's, you know, you got to keep it lively, you know, it's like, oh, I was going through some complex thing in a sermon. Boring you in seminary. That's your job? Christ. Yeah. One morning, the mic was busted. I said, there's something wrong with this microphone, the whole congregation said. And also with. You would you?

00;33;51;01 - 00;34;20;28
Jon Owen
I think we should use this as a great chance to to pivot. Because I love this podcast, man. Yeah. Thanks, man. I love the way you talk about being a minister or a follower of Jesus and integrate your theology to be able to, have a wider view of God that move beyond triumphalism into an incarnational Jesus of solidarity that integrates struggles with mental health as a normal part of the discipleship, and has therefore a nice summary and podcast.

00;34;21;01 - 00;34;53;18
Dave Quak 
I love that spiel. I'm going to like, I think you're supposed to like, take clips like that out and then put it on Facebook to be like, look what John Allen said about me. No, but it's just a passion of mine, John, because I feel like we're just always a little bit slow to the party. Like if mental illness is affecting 1 in 4 people directly, you know, that's going to affect everybody by the time you've got a friend or an auntie or a cousin or a loved one with mental illness, I found for myself being able to be fully in love with Jesus and live that out while being fully tormented some days is

00;34;53;18 - 00;35;04;06
Dave Quak 
a really strange tension to live in. But there's heaps of us and we just got to make more, live. I think a concerted effort to speak into that place and bless people that way, you know.

00;35;04;06 - 00;35;11;11
Jon Owen
And that's another one of my bugbears. Right? We should never allow people to go straight from high school into training to ministry. We should put them out in the real world for.

00;35;11;13 - 00;35;12;06
Dave Quak 
Absolutely for.

00;35;12;06 - 00;35;48;19
Jon Owen
A little while, because we get to be exposed to not only our own struggles and our own story, but also to, the struggles of our friends around us. And we need to be like most of my job, man, as a minister is listening, apologizing for the things other ministers have said, for the way people have lived their lives as a result, in response of what they've heard from the pulpit, you know, is we need to have all of as a national symposium as ministers to say what is a theology of brokenness and suffering look like today in the 21st century, when it comes to mental health and addiction?

00;35;48;26 - 00;36;26;01
Jon Owen
Because we need to speak words of life into that space, not words of death and denial. Yes, which if you follow Jesus like we still have that base level bad theology, even worse psychology, saying Come to Jesus and she'll be right, mate. How much? Denial and mistrust of self and shame and guilt and unworthiness do we promote through, promoting those kinds of teachings from the pulpit as opposed to saying, you know, you follow a Jesus who stands with you in your pain and yes, the one who says, fear not, for I am with you.

00;36;26;06 - 00;36;46;06
Jon Owen
I have redeemed you. I've called you by name, child, you are mine. As you pass through the fires, you will not be burnt and the water shall not overwhelm you. Though the fires get hot and you feel like you're drowning, I am there and you are beloved in my sight. Yes, as opposed to you must have some sacred sin in your life.

00;36;46;08 - 00;37;05;01
Jon Owen
Yes, I another extra 50 bucks in this and that guy would ferret it out. I am young enough. Might not know you can read the slide of it. I sat through my fair share of youth rallies where the preacher would say, the spirits tell me some of you are wanking and some of you are smoking. And you'd be like, My God, the spirit speaking to him.

00;37;05;06 - 00;37;08;15
Jon Owen
Now that's just amazing. That's low hanging fruit. Yeah, that's right.

00;37;08;15 - 00;37;10;26
Dave Quak 
That's 50% of the people in the room.

00;37;10;28 - 00;37;15;19
Jon Owen
Yeah. Come on, put up your hand. Up your hand, you dirty bags. And so,

00;37;15;21 - 00;37;17;21
Dave Quak 
Yeah. And it just comes from that place of guilt.

00;37;17;28 - 00;37;37;29
Jon Owen
Come on, guys, I'm seriously, that kind of stuff is where we think is sacred sin. And the ministers have a special word or revelation from God. Man. Spurgeon I'm just one big guy helping another bigger farmer, and that's it. And yet, together we find how in the one who died for our sins and came to give us life, right?

00;37;38;01 - 00;37;56;07
Jon Owen
I mean, if so, that's why I say my my life is stone soup. I'm just an ordinary rock putting a boiling pot of water, right? And others come around and together we we work our way through. I often say to fellas who are struggling with addiction and temptation, I just say, man, I'd rather be lost with you than saved without you.

00;37;56;07 - 00;37;58;12
Jon Owen
Brother. Let's walk through this together.

00;37;58;12 - 00;38;12;21
Dave Quak 
Amen. Yeah, bro. Yeah, just that message just is inadvertently drawing people away from God. It comes from all these intentions thinking this is what's going to convert them. And. And all it does is cement all these unhelpful, things I thought in the past.

00;38;12;21 - 00;38;35;14
Jon Owen
Anyway, then looking for a word of hope. Yeah, right. And they base their life on it. Right. And it's such an awesome opportunity to speak into that. Yeah. And to live into that. Two hours ago, I was in the psych ward with a dear brother who, you know, he did make an attempt on his own life. Right? Technically, he just messed up his medication.

00;38;35;14 - 00;38;41;22
Jon Owen
Yeah, right. But, you know, and I'm he's like, all right, what are you going to say? And I said one thing, I love you.

00;38;41;24 - 00;38;42;15
Dave Quak 
Yeah.

00;38;42;17 - 00;39;03;22
Jon Owen
That's it. God loves him. You know, that was easy. Yeah. I don't try and fix or change people, man. So often my discipleship involves a lot of sadness and grief. I just say, yeah, brother, I wish you could see yourself through the eyes of Jesus. I wish you could see what I see, which is gift and life and love and talent.

00;39;03;25 - 00;39;20;26
Jon Owen
I can't force you to say that. I can't make you say that. Or I'll pray that spirit of love will take over. Take that spirit of darkness and self-destruction that you're feeling right now. What I'm feeling and nothingness. Yeah, but if you done. I'm a minister, man. I'll give you the best funeral I will woop as your casket goes off, man.

00;39;20;26 - 00;39;41;10
Jon Owen
But I wish you could see just the way God sees you right now. That's it. And. And so that releases me from the need to fix or change anyone. Yeah, right. And, that helps me with. I'm not saying I absolve myself of responsibility because I'm right there in the hospital. Still with him? Yeah. I wish, you know, I you can.

00;39;41;18 - 00;40;00;12
Jon Owen
You know, you can't drag someone to want to leave, right? You can't. You need to let them to want to find Jesus. No, but you just, you know, you just love them. And in the hope that they'll, finally realize that, the whole world is in, in a great conspiracy against them. Yeah, but rather that there is there are people and there is one who is here with them.

00;40;00;12 - 00;40;00;26
Jon Owen
And.

00;40;00;28 - 00;40;10;02
Dave Quak 
Absolutely. And if the moment we start trying to be the Holy Spirit in someone else's life, it's a quick path to burn out, isn't it? Like only God can change someone.

00;40;10;09 - 00;40;31;17
Jon Owen
And circling back. And one of that was most vividly taught to me once was sitting around praying, and there was a family and a couple there. And bless them both, they both passed away now. And that was struggling with heroin addiction and and they were really mistreating the kids. And, but they're in our Bible study group and we said, let's all pray and let's just spend some time in silence to work.

00;40;31;17 - 00;40;51;12
Jon Owen
And you know what? Is there anything that God wants you to make a change of for this man? Yeah. And so they went back and prayed and they came back so excited. And I said, you know what? God's really convicted us to register Raqqa. And we like some the enemy part of me was like, got a rehab, got a date.

00;40;51;12 - 00;41;08;00
Jon Owen
Oh, yes. Using his trading gates. Yeah. But then I had this we had this realization in that moment right, that we're not the Holy Spirit. Can we get it wrong so often. Yeah. But also God doesn't give you a task that's impossible.

00;41;08;03 - 00;41;08;24
Dave Quak 
Yes.

00;41;08;26 - 00;41;23;01
Jon Owen
Right. That feels impossible. God just gives you the next thing just like you said brother. Yeah. He gives us the next step and he gives us, you know, it's not so much our faith in God but God's faith in us to get it. And, he gives us those little things to do, and, and we can do it because the recovery just did.

00;41;23;01 - 00;41;42;07
Jon Owen
What's next? Yeah. You know, it's just like, yes. Yeah. All of a sudden they're one step further down that road of saying, hey, I'm, I'm doing this, you know, with community and with God. And, you know, how do you know, how do I come in with my human nature? Outgoing now, you didn't hear properly. Go back to the exercise again.

00;41;42;07 - 00;41;43;06
Jon Owen
Yeah.

00;41;43;08 - 00;41;51;21
Dave Quak 
Yeah, I love it, man. Like, I, I really like that, John. Like, And it's an achievement. Like, that's a massive milestone and win in their family. God bless.

00;41;51;21 - 00;41;55;24
Jon Owen
It. Well, you know when you're struggling with mental health, some days it looks like heaven.

00;41;56;01 - 00;42;01;01
Dave Quak 
It's true man, just not losing your marbles for a day could be a mount Everest.

00;42;01;08 - 00;42;04;06
Jon Owen
And guess what God Niagara just say Cheered.

00;42;04;10 - 00;42;07;10
Dave Quak 
Yeah. And we got to be as clean to ourselves as God is to us.

00;42;07;10 - 00;42;14;22
Jon Owen
Like you know. Okay, also saying you've said this before on your podcast, God works through the wonderful therapies and medications that.

00;42;14;22 - 00;42;16;10
Dave Quak 
Are out there. Yeah, yeah he does.

00;42;16;12 - 00;42;43;15
Jon Owen
Yeah. I say these great medications. I have a child who's on, you know, I kind of cry a little bit in the morning when I say the bunch of pills I go to take because it's help with their bipolar and their beeped and their anxiety and depression and, you know, it it works. You know, we've gone from someone who was incredibly suicidal, to someone who has, only lightly self-harmed 2 or 3 times in the last two years.

00;42;43;15 - 00;43;06;29
Jon Owen
Yeah. Well, I compare that to weekly visits in our hospital, you know, at the darkness in the depths of it as well. You know, God works through that medication, through them. Therapy. That's also a reminder to us as ministers and to you, therapy. Yeah. Do not skip therapy. Do not skip your counseling. Not because, you know, the therapist wants you to stick your head up your bum and describe what you smell, you know, kind of rubbish.

00;43;07;05 - 00;43;27;27
Jon Owen
It's more saying if we don't do it. I've seen far too often. You use your congregation as your therapist. Yeah. And you get. You think you're telling a really great story, but you just spewing it unresolved trauma onto it. Yeah, right. Come on. We owe ourselves. And we definitely owe our congregation to bring that word to life is so true, you know?

00;43;27;27 - 00;43;34;27
Jon Owen
And so we all need to do the work, right? We don't escape. And, you know, my therapist is a complete atheist, but, man, he keeps me on the level.

00;43;34;29 - 00;43;55;13
Dave Quak 
Yeah, my well, I do for a year. That's our minimum. But I do more than that because I'm actually really like it. You get to go somewhere, I get to debrief someone who I'm not responsible for, you know, looking out for. So I go, they're completely me focused. I'm like, I'm paying this guy to take care of me speaking to my life, and it's game changing.

00;43;55;13 - 00;44;06;27
Dave Quak 
I wouldn't be successful without it. I actually wasn't aware your, daughter had bipolar as well. And I know for me, the medication has been a massive game changer with my bipolar. Yeah, it's a godsend.

00;44;07;01 - 00;44;41;22
Jon Owen
Yeah, yeah. And look, there's that, you know, the lithium that it's a big one and, you know, and and gorgeous kids sparkle is gone. And and yet we see the long term impacts that kind of levels out that whole thing. But then this beautiful, creature that was always there is just a marriage, you know. Yes. You know, this kind, gentle, thoughtful, loving person as opposed to this, this poor old kid that were just tormented by their their crazy highs and the crazy lows and the self-loathing that went along with it.

00;44;41;25 - 00;44;45;28
Jon Owen
I can even say she, might be even close to loving herself now.

00;44;46;00 - 00;44;46;22
Dave Quak 
That's amazing.

00;44;46;22 - 00;44;50;08
Jon Owen
After years of struggle, which just, you know, as a parent just lies the amount.

00;44;50;15 - 00;45;11;20
Dave Quak 
Oh praise God. And just as a side note, every listener be praying for her just to. Yeah, just to be listening to God and and petitioning God. Join your heart for people is inspirational. And what I'm really glad about is, you know, there's more awareness coming your way. I see you doing more podcasts and getting invited on to lots of shows.

00;45;11;20 - 00;45;32;22
Dave Quak 
I think your message is so important, you know, just to be able to really sit with people. There's a guy up here called Dave Andrews. I don't know if you know him, but he does a lot of work in Fortitude Valley, and he was there in the early days as well. And his message is, you know, you don't look at someone in the crap and try to reach down and arm and pull them out.

00;45;32;24 - 00;45;50;01
Dave Quak 
You get in the crap first and then lift them out from within the crap. And he says it with a lot more colorful language and keeps getting in trouble. I'm trying to be a bit better because I'm a bit naughty with my mouth a lot of the time, but I just think that's why sides in it. In amongst it, you're in it.

00;45;50;07 - 00;45;50;24
Dave Quak 
You've lived.

00;45;50;24 - 00;46;13;05
Jon Owen
It looked like an angel. One of the, heroes. I like to catch up with Dave every couple of years. They're good because he's about ten, 20 years old or so I just said. Yeah, what's the next chapter of life look like? Yeah. Living this weird culture and wisdom that idolizes being 19 forever. And, you know, we go to the high temple of Pilates and listen to a 19 year old instructor and that's the heart of our culture.

00;46;13;05 - 00;46;20;01
Jon Owen
Which is it? Just the height of stupidity, right? Yeah. Is. Whereas, Dave, you know, I read ten years ago, what's next? The kids are leaving home. What's next?

00;46;20;01 - 00;46;20;14
Dave Quak 
I love it.

00;46;20;21 - 00;46;40;06
Jon Owen
You know what's next in our life and discipleship? You know what's next in a cold and location. And and Dave is just always got that wisdom. And he just always has the time to pour life into your heart. And so and the way he's, caring for Ange right now is she goes through her health struggles, is just, he's a hero, the faith man.

00;46;40;07 - 00;46;56;28
Dave Quak 
He's a hero. You know, what I like about Dave is I actually was having lunch one day in the city, and there was a lady having a psychotic episode, and she was. Everyone around didn't know how to handle it. Some young guys were mocking her. Some other ladies were running away, and out of nowhere, Dave just came.

00;46;57;01 - 00;47;12;09
Dave Quak 
Just chat, talked him down, took him for a meal and just spent as long as he had to with him. I that's heroic in my opinion. Just doing that. No one, no one knows. He doesn't know why I saw that. I was just in a cafe, sheltered haven, you know, lunch. But it's just seeing him live it out.

00;47;12;09 - 00;47;18;21
Dave Quak 
And that's what it takes, man. Just people just to eat with people and and have a go and be available. Hey.

00;47;18;23 - 00;47;27;16
Jon Owen
Beautiful man. That's. It's all about, you know, our presence and yeah, you know, helping kind of provide that Christ centered presence.

00;47;27;18 - 00;47;34;01
Dave Quak 
Yeah. John, thank you so much for coming on, brother. I really appreciate you. Really enjoyed that chat. That was.

00;47;34;01 - 00;47;45;26
Jon Owen
Fun. Yeah. And, Megan, please, I hope anyone out there who's listening to us has gotten through all their prattle. Yeah. And, sifted it for, if there's any gold in there, it's from God, not from me.

00;47;45;27 - 00;47;47;25
Dave Quak 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now there's lots of gold in it.

00;47;48;02 - 00;48;26;13
Jon Owen
It's just despite, you know, hold on. If you're struggling with, you know, if there's a there are. I mean, it seems dark, right? It's not an easy path. And I, you know, often ask God, you know, why. You know my kid. But why do others have such a difficult path in life? But you know, there is hope, and there is hope, and it will come through the people and through the therapies and the the medications, not in spite of them or against them that I sometimes hear in, in churches, you know, let's, let's, let's do better, you know, by that, you know, hold on, hold others reach out.

00;48;26;15 - 00;48;42;03
Jon Owen
Christ gives us a beautiful example of he lived his life in community. He lived his life with us. He wasn't afraid to say, my soul is troubled even to the point of death. Yes. You know, that's the, fancy way of saying, I don't know if I can leave today. Yeah, I don't know if I can leave today.

00;48;42;03 - 00;48;48;22
Jon Owen
And it's like I that I'd rather you spent two hours on my shoulder than I spent ten minutes at your eulogy made. You know.

00;48;48;24 - 00;49;08;07
Dave Quak 
I love, God's crossroads with the John. Like, three decades ago. You might have gone into computer silence. By now, you would have been a millionaire. Possibly more. Because you're a smart guy and the right time and everything could have worked out. But I think actually, you're truly rich. And I think if anyone can catch that this is true.

00;49;08;07 - 00;49;30;27
Dave Quak 
Riches is getting alongside the broken. This is where life comes alive. Just thank you, John. If, as we wind up, do you mind praying for our listeners and our main demographic of people who probably do have the ability and resources to step out a little bit in this area to open their home a little more, to maybe eat with a couple of people who've never been at their table.

00;49;31;00 - 00;49;33;03
Dave Quak 
Yeah. If you could just pray for us. Yeah.

00;49;33;06 - 00;49;52;15
Jon Owen
And yeah, look at I want to encourage as I pray for everyone. You know, we always overestimate what we can get done in a year and underestimate what we can get done in five. And, you know, there are about a thousand kids across our country tonight who will stain high tolerance because there aren't enough foster carers. I'm not asking you to become a foster carer, but I'm saying, how about you just take one step?

00;49;52;16 - 00;50;09;18
Jon Owen
Yeah. Into exploring what that could look like. I know with permission. Yeah, they do have some great foster care programs out there in Queensland. So you know, but that could be one area. It could just be like kind of an information session or guide to actually participate in whatever church has an outreach for a community meal or a soup van or something like that.

00;50;09;18 - 00;50;25;28
Jon Owen
And just take one step. What's one risky contact with your family? You know, what is it? Jimmy? Elliot says as I start to pray. You know he or she is no fool who gives up what they can't afford to lose or something like that. You know what I read, you know, put it to pieces. Said. That's right.

00;50;25;28 - 00;51;00;18
Jon Owen
You know what we mean anyway. But, Lord Jesus, we thank you that you, the one who goes before us. Yeah. You are our example. Our pathway, and also our friend and our savior. Lord, we just, pray for everyone here who, is feeling that stirring. Lord, we know, and that doesn't constitute a call, but really show us, reveal to our hearts what is the next step you want us to take through your Holy Spirit, Lord, and we thank you for the beautiful and unexpected ways you can take our lives and completely change the trajectories they are on.

00;51;00;20 - 00;51;20;10
Jon Owen
Lord. And look, I thank you already in advance for the lives that are going to be impacted through Dave's teachings and podcasts here and and the work that you're doing in this word. Lord, we just pray as the ambulances flow through this place and the police sirens go. I just pray that everyone will make it home safely tonight.

00;51;20;12 - 00;51;31;03
Jon Owen
And those who don't have a home on our streets, we'll find a place that they not only house can pull up. And they said, one day we'll for you in your name.

00;51;31;09 - 00;51;36;18
Dave Quak 
Amen. Thank you, John Allen.

00;51;36;20 - 00;51;56;24
Dave Quak 
For more candid conversations on faith and mental well-being, check out some bentos.com. You can subscribe to our podcast on any major provider, or contact us directly to book us to preach or speak. Some of that souls is a faith based ministry, and we want to thank everybody so far for their generous support. If you want to get behind us, pray.

00;51;56;24 - 00;52;09;28
Dave Quak 
Our message reaches the ears of those that need to hear it. Feel free to donate financially online, but if you feel obliged or manipulated to give you better off sharing a loved one a coffee instead. I'm Dave Clark from Sunburned Souls.