Mark McCrindle on Gen Alpha, Mental Health & the Future of Christian Faith

00;00;01;09 - 00;00;27;00
Dave Quak
Welcome to Sunburnt Souls. I'm Dave Quak and on this show we explore life and faith and our mental well-being. As a pastor that struggles with mental illness, I get to chat to people like me, people that love Jesus and follow the way of Christ while dealing with the messiness and brokenness of lives. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode with me this week.

00;00;27;07 - 00;00;36;18
Dave Quak 
We are so blessed to have Mark Mccrindle from Mccrindle Research here, and you got your finger in many other pies. But Mark, thank you so much for being here this morning. My brother.

00;00;36;20 - 00;00;41;20
Mark McCrindle
Thanks, David. Great to be with you. And great to be, great to be onboard now.

00;00;41;24 - 00;01;00;29
Dave Quak 
It's a huge blessing. And usually when we get a New South Wales guest on, because I'm a staunch Queenslander, we'd like to, you know, banter about why we're better, but we are just not bitter at the moment. You are killing us in every, and it's like ten degrees and raining up here at the moment. You've just wipe the floor on origin.

00;01;01;16 - 00;01;08;07
Dave Quak 
More medals came in the Olympics from New South Wales and Queensland. So it's a good to be a cockroach at the moment. Mark.

00;01;09;09 - 00;01;29;20
Mark McCrindle
Right. We were having our moment in the sun, quite literally. But, look, I think we're not beating you. In what area? Australians are voting with their feet and moving to Queensland in record numbers. In fact, New South Wales is losing more people than it's gaining, in terms of internal migration. And much of that exodus is heading up to the Sunshine State there.

00;01;29;20 - 00;01;32;11
Mark McCrindle
So, the people can't be wrong.

00;01;32;13 - 00;01;55;03
Dave Quak 
The the people can't be wrong. And it's true. We've got a lot of people. I live on the Gold Coast and a lot of people are migrating here especially. And so we welcome you guys. We're happy to have you welcome. Also just wanted to just thank you. I know you don't need much of introduction because a lot of people who listen to this podcast have already told me how excited they are to have you on as a guest, but you do have your finger in many, many pies.

00;01;55;03 - 00;02;19;02
Dave Quak 
So you're the principal of Mccrindle research, which has been helping us pastors for decades. Just know which trends to look out for. The one you did with Olive Tree Media maybe five years ago now, was linchpin for our church changing direction, especially on how we do evangelism and things like that. You're on the board of some of my favorite organizations.

00;02;19;09 - 00;02;36;05
Dave Quak 
You know, compassion and the Pacific Coast Schools is one just down the road. You really are. You're on TV, you're writing books. What's it like for you being a prominent Australian leader and in this space? And I guess my question is, how's your mental health? I mean, how do you manage all this?

00;02;37;06 - 00;02;54;19
Mark McCrindle
Well, you know, the Lord calls and the Lord equips, and it's our job just to steward what he has put in front of us and to steward what he gives us. And, and you know, that attitude of, I think being a, a faithful servant, you know, we don't have to, build it in our own strength.

00;02;54;19 - 00;03;28;13
Mark McCrindle
We don't have to grasp it. But we just have to be faithful. Is my approach. Paul writes to the church at Colossae, and he says, the one who called you is faithful. He will do it, you know, and and he strengthens us. But he's the one that that does it. And so I just, I just feel called to to step into these areas and, and do my best and, and present whatever that best is up to the Lord as, as, as something he will then, establish and and have impact with and and I failed in my life.

00;03;29;24 - 00;03;52;11
Mark McCrindle
That, you know, there's responsibilities that we have, in, in business or family, whatever it might be, but also, I think responsibilities to serve. And that's why I've, found going on boards and using whatever skills and experience and guidance that I've gained, to, to help steward these, this important organization has been, you know, hopefully helpful for the organization.

00;03;52;11 - 00;03;55;18
Mark McCrindle
Certainly a blessing for me. And I think important work.

00;03;55;21 - 00;04;00;04
Dave Quak 
Yeah. It is important work. I mean, are you still on compassion board, Mark.

00;04;00;07 - 00;04;01;11
Mark McCrindle
Yes.

00;04;01;13 - 00;04;19;14
Dave Quak 
Yeah. I have had a heart for them for so long. So we've been a compassion supporting church since we planted the church. And we've got, you know, a continual rotation of compassion, children represented on our fridge. And then they graduate and we get a new young and such an incredible ministry, such a great ministry.

00;04;19;17 - 00;04;48;09
Mark McCrindle
Oh, great to hear. Absolutely. And the impacts of compassion globally are phenomenal. And, you know, it would have to be not only the leading, child development organization, but an incredible evangelistic organization where these children who help regardless of their background or faith, I help them through local churches in their countries. And there they get, health care and education input.

00;04;48;11 - 00;05;10;27
Mark McCrindle
But through these churches, they get, most importantly, that spiritual input, that pastoral care and and what an opportunity, that we have to support these field workers and these church pastors in these far flung lands to impact the most vulnerable and their families, not just in practical ways, but in spiritual ways as well.

00;05;11;00 - 00;05;31;15
Dave Quak 
Yeah. It's amazing. Selah. Well, our current child, she's, Islamic girl from Indonesia, and she's delightful, and she just always runs the most beautiful letters. I just love it. I love what you do there. You were kind enough to come on. I sent an email asking if we could chat about mental health in Australia. Obviously that is just a massive topic.

00;05;31;17 - 00;05;46;17
Dave Quak 
So many organizations are trying their best to bring it to the forefront of people's thinking. I just I would just love to let you be Mark Mccrindle and tell us what is going on in this space in Australia.

00;05;46;20 - 00;06;07;09
Mark McCrindle
Well, it's importantly, front of mind at the moment for us because the data is highlighting the challenge that the latest census, it was the first time in a census it asks a question of Australians, are you living with a long term health condition and the number one condition above asthma? And we know there's lots of asthma in Australia about arthritis.

00;06;07;09 - 00;06;36;13
Mark McCrindle
And we've got an aging population and more arthritis. But the number one long term health condition Australians living with is mental health. And so that highlights, I think, the scale of the challenge. We just ran a study of education across Australia, school education. We asked teachers what do you think the biggest challenges moving for the biggest challenge in your role and on top of administration challenges and, funding issues and getting new staff on board was managing the mental health of students.

00;06;36;15 - 00;07;15;18
Mark McCrindle
So it's an issue that affects right across the age groups. But it's particularly evident with young people. And are they growing up in a time of financial uncertainty, of global, machinations, of, of geopolitical shifts, of, of anxiety about the future, their own future in the global future? And so I guess it's a little surprise to see that despite us being in the lucky country with so much opportunity and with, you know, stability and compared to other countries, economic, options and opportunities, mental health is still there, such as the uncertainty and anxiety.

00;07;16;00 - 00;07;17;23
Mark McCrindle
At the moment.

00;07;17;26 - 00;07;34;03
Dave Quak 
Yeah. I've read some of your research around, Generation Alpha. Hey, it must be cool that you coined that term. By the way, I've never coined the term you get credit for coining that term. I've got a couple of alphas at home. I know, because every now and then, my name's dad. And every now and then.

00;07;34;03 - 00;07;55;25
Dave Quak 
My name is Sigma. I think it's a good thing because it's when I buy them KFC. They like saying sigma, so my name changes. I still try to embarrass them at school by saying that their mum has mad Riz. Apparently that means their mum's an attractive lady still, so I don't understand their lingo. But that age group, I got such a heart for them as you do.

00;07;56;00 - 00;08;03;19
Dave Quak 
What? What are your reckons going on like? Why is it accelerating for them? I mean all generations are struggling with it, but what's going on with the alphas?

00;08;03;22 - 00;08;26;02
Mark McCrindle
Well, I think in, despite our efforts and your great breakthroughs in providing more education with this generation than ever, even the most formally educated generation and the most maturely endowed generation in history. And I think, you know, that can be a positive thing. They're the most globally connected to the most technology supplied generation ever. All had a longer life expectancy than the generations that have gone before.

00;08;26;02 - 00;08;49;24
Mark McCrindle
So incredible opportunities for them. And yet it's almost as if we've given them more options, more pathways, more opportunities, but no purpose and no clear foundations. And I think at a national level, that's the situation. We say, you can do anything, you can be anything, but we don't give the values and that foundation and that sense of belonging and that sense of hope.

00;08;49;26 - 00;09;08;13
Mark McCrindle
A lot of the parents are uncertain about the future. We tell them that environmentally things are falling apart and the hell you're not going to be able to afford a home like like your parents did. And and it's globally competitive, but I work hard and get a good job and, and succeed in all the studies and continue studying later.

00;09;08;13 - 00;09;28;25
Mark McCrindle
We we put lots of pressure on them. But I think we forget to tell them that even as a nation, hopefully Christian parents too, that they're made in the image of God. They are loved by him. He has a heart for the children. We see Jesus saying that don't, don't keep the children away. I think that that they're not important, that we try to do busy at all things.

00;09;28;25 - 00;09;50;15
Mark McCrindle
Now let the little children come on to me, such as the kingdom of heaven. And if we can help the most important generation that have so much in life, but a missing spiritual purpose and a sense of real belonging and and hope for their future. With that, with that truth, with that direction, then, then I think that that's going to be key.

00;09;50;19 - 00;10;12;25
Mark McCrindle
You know, as we've moved into more secular times, we've leant more on science to give us hands on technology, to give us breakthroughs on the medical or pharmaceutical sector to solve this particular problem. But at the heart of it, you know, anxiety and uncertainty, some of that flows from soul sickness, people just not knowing. Why am I here?

00;10;12;27 - 00;10;23;28
Mark McCrindle
What's the purpose? Where am I going? And and do I belong? And if we can offer some coherent answers there, I think that's going to greatly help our young people.

00;10;24;27 - 00;10;46;17
Dave Quak 
Yeah. It's the ultimate purpose. And we know that from being followers of Christ, are there any kind of, like, indications that there are less percentage of anxious people with inside the body of Christ opposed to people who don't have a faith or have a different faith persuasion, like there's is there any correlation or is that the same inside the church and outside the church?

00;10;46;19 - 00;11;17;16
Mark McCrindle
Let it be a good thing to study. I mean, no doubt there's anxiety, you know, across the community. And it's not as though, you know, there's less physical sickness within the church. That's right. It's not a church. In fact, you know, often God, of course, will use trials, turmoil, sicknesses, illnesses where the physical or mental, you know, that we might trust in him, and that we might even learn through the dark valleys, which we'll often do in a greater way than than we will through, you know, the hilltop experiences.

00;11;17;16 - 00;11;43;00
Mark McCrindle
So. So I don't know, if there's data on that, but I would say that when, as Winston Churchill called it, the the Black Dog, follows us when there's uncertainty or anxiety or a sense of depression. We have a hope, and we have, the peace of God which passes understanding. And we have the truth of God that we can access in his word.

00;11;43;03 - 00;12;02;18
Mark McCrindle
And I'm sure you found David as I have when there is stress or tough times or dark days, or it seems like the clouds are coming in upon us because of circumstances in life, or maybe sometimes even for unexplained reasons that we find comfort in the Word of God. We have that open line of communication through prayer to God.

00;12;02;18 - 00;12;21;24
Mark McCrindle
We have the Holy Spirit. He guides. We have the example of Christ and we have the counsel of of of great was believers in holy rich that we can turn to and learn from who've been through tough times. You look at Jeremiah, he seemed pretty depressed to me. You look at that, Elijah, at certain points, he had a great victory.

00;12;21;24 - 00;12;43;02
Mark McCrindle
Amen. Well, the next thing is sort of curled up in the fetal position, thinking that he's the only follower of God and and, and scared of Queen Jezebel. You know, we we see these these people go up and down, Peter. Sort of head high, high. The apostle Peter, he had low lows as well. Yeah. To sort of be reinstated by the Lord after he was in a pretty bad route after his denials.

00;12;43;02 - 00;13;07;15
Mark McCrindle
And, and that's the work of God, you know, hearts in our heads, in our in our lives. And, and I think that that we as Christians, need to offer the comfort that we've received and the breakthroughs we've received in our life to others because we have the truth and we have, I think, a greater access to those spiritual resources that can, help others as well.

00;13;07;18 - 00;13;29;09
Dave Quak 
Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. And I like your confession that, you know, physical illness is no different in or outside the church. Like it's indiscriminate. I think that's important to note for Christians who think they've somehow failed spiritually. If they do have mental health, you know, things happening, mental ill health things, because it's not a indication of poor discipleship or the fact that you're not drawing near to God.

00;13;29;09 - 00;13;42;23
Dave Quak 
It's literally, like you said, can be parts of the broken world, can be things that God's using to bring us closer to him or for us. You know, it's you been walking with Jesus a long time. Mark, how did you come to faith?

00;13;42;26 - 00;14;14;29
Mark McCrindle
Well, I grew up in a family with faithful parents. And, And so I was at church from your birth, and, and, and just saw my parents live out their walk with the Lord. We had devotions, and I was around Christian things as a youngster, but realized when I was just approaching my teenage years that I needed to make my own decisions, that, that my parents faith, couldn't be inherited, but that we each have to, make our do our own business with God or make our decisions.

00;14;14;29 - 00;14;43;19
Mark McCrindle
And, and so when I was, about 11, I, coming up to 12, I made a decision to follow Christ and, and, and, you know, it's it's transformative to to have that walk with the Lord and, and it certainly shaped my life. Imperfect, though, you know, I am, circuitous. So the pathway has been, you know, see the faithfulness of God to, love and comfort and guide on this journey.

00;14;43;21 - 00;14;52;27
Dave Quak 
Yeah, it can be a crazy journey, but it's a good one. It is a good one. I saw on your, LinkedIn that you went to Moline College for a while, too. Hey.

00;14;52;29 - 00;15;22;00
Mark McCrindle
I did, yes. So after school, I went off to the University of New South Wales and studied psychology and then found that to such an excellent degree just took understand people in life and and, and how groups interact. And I guess from there that's that forged my pathway into researching communities and societies as a social research path, but really wanted to integrate that professional knowledge and experience with with my worldview of the Christian perspective.

00;15;22;00 - 00;15;47;27
Mark McCrindle
And I found, my master's study there, modeling. So good for that. It, it integrated a, a professional training with a biblical worldview. And and that's how I live my life. That's been so helpful. Yeah. And I've done some other studies since, but, yeah, I found that that mix of the secular professional training with, biblical and theological perspective very helpful.

00;15;48;04 - 00;16;02;12
Dave Quak 
Because because you understand community, because you've obviously studied into this and you've looked at trends. How important do you think community and connection is, especially post-Covid? Dealing with our topic today, you know, when it comes to mental ill health? Yeah.

00;16;02;14 - 00;16;42;10
Mark McCrindle
It's essential because we have been made the community, we have been designed as social beings. God's vision is and and indeed his guidance, is a red community, starting with, with that family community. The basic building blocks of the broader community. But we're we're given so much instruction in the Bible about how to live within other mindedness, how to care for others and comfort others in the diverse communities that we have to look out for the alienated, the, the, the, fatherless and and the, the orphan, the widow to take care of the vulnerable to, not flesh.

00;16;42;15 - 00;17;04;01
Mark McCrindle
If if we have more money around flesh that or. Yeah. Dress in a way that might show we've got some point, but actually the opposite to share with those who have greater need. So we have these great instructions for community. And that is, of course, most emphatically, communicated through the church and how the church is supposed to operate.

00;17;04;01 - 00;17;40;06
Mark McCrindle
And so much in the New Testament is instructions for that Christian community. The gathering, of of those following Christ and how they ought to interact. So community is essential. And, you know, if we if we look at society, you know, to that question, you said, why are we seeing so much mental ill health amongst young people? It's probably no surprise that that the rise in mental health challenge with youth is come at the same time as the rise in technology, because as great as technology can be for life and it does add value, it also can be addictive and it can reduce our interaction with others.

00;17;40;06 - 00;17;59;13
Mark McCrindle
As we become more relying on the screens, it can, get us to sort of look down and interact or maybe even promote ourselves rather than authentically interact with others. It's called social media, but it's pretty anti-social in a lot of ways. And not sure I've seen, you know, young people together, but on their screens, so they're not really together.

00;17;59;13 - 00;18;23;28
Mark McCrindle
And, and I think that it has been net of impairing for community and for young people and for that sense of engage. So, you know, back to community and how important it is technology, where to facilitate it. You know, other, learning alone. What words, compliment it or substitute for. We do need that connection, that interaction.

00;18;24;00 - 00;18;45;12
Mark McCrindle
And, and I think when it's across the generations, when it's authentic, when it's about going to serve not to not to get, and, and when we, we bring a sense of, of humility to that community in a sense of wanting to engage and facilitate others and their belonging to that. I think it's at its best.

00;18;45;12 - 00;18;47;08
Mark McCrindle
And that's what society needs.

00;18;47;10 - 00;19;11;25
Dave Quak 
Yeah, I agree, I especially like what you said about that across generations. I know one thing I love about our faith community. I mean, it's not perfect, no churches, but there's a lot of older guys who have taken an interest in just mucking around with my son, just telling him jokes, you know, just interacting with them, empowering him, blessing him with stuff, or even just making sure he knows he exists in that community and that he's an important part of it.

00;19;11;27 - 00;19;20;10
Dave Quak 
And I know he wouldn't be flourishing without the input of those gentlemen. And, yeah. And I know we do miss out on that when we're just heads down in the phone.

00;19;20;13 - 00;19;39;18
Mark McCrindle
Totally. I think that's important. And you see older people in church and some of oh, I know when I was a younger person, I would look across the old ones. I know I knew some of the challenges they'd been through, and I knew they'd been through ups and downs with their own children. And yet their their faithfully as they have been through their whole life, standing up and singing.

00;19;39;18 - 00;19;56;12
Mark McCrindle
Yeah, great is thy faithfulness. Yeah. You know, summer, winter, springtime and harvest, you know, whatever the season's great is your faithfulness unto me. And that is such an encouragement to a young person where everything's right, you know, it's a young person, you know, got a many funerals, you got all the parties and life is ahead of you.

00;19;56;16 - 00;20;13;06
Mark McCrindle
But to see all the people who've been around the block a few times, who have buried loved ones, who have had turmoils, who have had unexplained challenges come their way, you know, for reasons I don't know. And yet they're still solid with the Lord. I think is is an example. So we can't do church without the young and the old.

00;20;13;11 - 00;20;30;07
Mark McCrindle
We need to do that for each other as you said. And you know, again, on the mental health side, I think that's an encouragement for all of us because we see how they've stayed the course that they are still surviving. I know they've been through challenges, but, you know, as Jesus said, do not worry about tomorrow or two later, drink.

00;20;30;07 - 00;20;49;28
Mark McCrindle
And and that's a commandment. And if we can learn from others, despite the stresses that they're going to keep trusting, they going to keep turning up, they're going to keep committing it to the Lord rather than worrying themselves than if they've done it for that many years. Surely I can do it for this season. I mean, and that's what we get in community, what we get from a multi-generational church.

00;20;50;00 - 00;21;07;00
Dave Quak 
Yeah, absolutely. One of one of the, elderly ladies in our church was actually in England when there was shelling happening during the big wars, you know, and she she's brilliant. She we get her to preach every Mother's Day. She's 92. Because who else are you going to get? You got to get the mother in the faith.

00;21;07;02 - 00;21;24;08
Dave Quak 
And, you know, she tell stories that put things in perspective, you know? Yeah. We have troubles in our life. Yes we do. The cost of living is insane. There are problems. But what they've been able to overcome. And then in the in the subsequent decades after that, you can learn something from them.

00;21;24;09 - 00;21;28;03
Mark McCrindle
Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, that's a testament.

00;21;28;06 - 00;21;55;24
Dave Quak 
Do you have any help for people who, you know, bringing children up now, alphas, you know, people with younger kids on how to help them balance the digital age that they're growing into because it's all around them. Like, you know, so many of our, our own children classes at school, iPad lessons or, you know, they get an iPad in, I think year three than a mac in year five.

00;21;55;24 - 00;22;14;00
Dave Quak 
It's also digital. So much is just contingent on that. What would you say to help anyone ten years younger than me? I'm 43. My kids are kind of 15 and 13 and, you know, but what about the people who have bringing their children into this? What can they do to win?

00;22;14;03 - 00;22;37;02
Mark McCrindle
Well, I wrote a book on Jennifer, and we had a little simple acronym in one part of that about how to raise children in the digital age and the acronym DCB. Yeah, that was a four letters in the D stands for delay, giving them their own device. Now they might have the device for learning at school. They might be they might have a device that we give them when they're going up to the shops, just from a security perspective.

00;22;37;04 - 00;22;54;00
Mark McCrindle
But if if it's not their own, then that's going to be helpful. There's no reason for six or 7 or 8 year old to have their own device, their own phone, because the fact is they're going to be on it all the time and it does develop, addictive, aspects and behaviors. And it does, take more and more time.

00;22;54;00 - 00;23;14;06
Mark McCrindle
So delay is the first thing. And the second thing is the key is to communicate values just to, over time, communicate. This is what we believe and this is what we look at. This is this is these are our values. This is the sorts of expectations we have when you use this device so that they can start to then internalize that and make their own decisions.

00;23;14;14 - 00;23;33;06
Mark McCrindle
You're parenting is bringing children from dependance to ultimately adolescence, which is independence. And so over time we we loosen the reins. You know, we we we send them off eventually on their own. Why we they've got to now have their own path in life. But then earlier on, you know, we're teaching it, we're restricting where we've got the boundaries on.

00;23;33;08 - 00;24;01;08
Mark McCrindle
And so if we can communicate the values over time, they'll internalize that and live it up in their own way. And that's to communicate, to see the the best sense for behavioral input. If we can give them some behavioral tips or tools so that they can start to manage their own screen use, that's going to be good. And and probably part of that is as parents, we got too many home screen use, you know, what do we do when when we've got a few minutes and we think, you know, I just want to reach for the phone and do the doom scroll to see what the latest is.

00;24;01;14 - 00;24;22;20
Mark McCrindle
Okay. But I'm not going to do that because I've got things to do. I'm going to prioritize. I'm going to I'm going to organize my diaper. I'm going to limit my time. I'm going to manage what I do and don't post. I'm going to be an example there. And if we can have our own behavioral patterns in place and help our children develop that so that they can self-manage those impulses, those urges, and what I share that's going to be good.

00;24;22;25 - 00;24;44;11
Mark McCrindle
And the I stands for accountable. Ultimately, the parents have bought the device. The parents are paying the plan. It's appeared contract. And so the parents have to have that accountability. We can say all the kids these days, they're addicted to screens are terrible. They told us, you know, if we're the parents, we've got that responsibility and that accountability as parents and we've got to take charge.

00;24;44;14 - 00;25;05;22
Mark McCrindle
And, and that was a little simple strategy there, you know, delay and reduce access, maybe even having a screen for a day, once a week or limiting the time, making sure that that we're, we're on to that and the and the communicated values set them up with good behavioral, strategies and then and then take accountability will help.

00;25;05;22 - 00;25;24;27
Mark McCrindle
And and look it's got to be messy. It's not going to be perfect. But whatever we can do whatever impact we can have there. It's a digital future. They're going to need those things. But if we can manage it so that it becomes a net benefit rather than something that spirals downwards in their lives, that's going to be a good thing.

00;25;24;29 - 00;25;40;11
Dave Quak 
Well, thank you for that because I think people are looking for a strategy. I think sometimes we're just I know a lot of the guys in my life, they get sick of their kids being on screen, don't know what to do about it, so they might take it off them for a day or in a, you know, bust them doing something they shouldn't do.

00;25;40;11 - 00;26;02;19
Dave Quak 
And then there's like a kind of like, instant consequence. But we need strategies because that's not going away. You know, all their jobs are going to be tied with it. I like that. The DCB well, what do you think about radically incentivizing the D? Because I got a friend who basically said to his child, if you don't get social media till you're 17, oh, by whichever color you want.

00;26;02;22 - 00;26;05;23
Dave Quak 
Yeah. You know, is that helpful? Is that a hindrance? What do you think of that?

00;26;05;29 - 00;26;07;26
Mark McCrindle
Oh, I think it's fantastic. Yeah.

00;26;07;26 - 00;26;09;20
Dave Quak 
Okay. So it's worth it. Yeah.

00;26;09;22 - 00;26;26;09
Mark McCrindle
Oh definitely. Because we're we're helping them to have a bigger vision in life. We're helping them to, you know, not sacrifice the present or not sacrifice their future on the altar of the present. You know, delayed gratification. That's what it's all about. Go for the bigger prize and the fact is, know people while. But it's a digital future.

00;26;26;11 - 00;26;58;27
Mark McCrindle
The digital natives, they'll get it. They're okay with that. But but even in the future, the most valuable skills will be the distinctively human ones. So if they can develop some sporting skills where they're interacting with a team, which they can get a job where they're interacting with customers, they spend their time talking and serving and and interacting with other people, developing those people skills, the communication skills, the interaction skills that's going to serve them well because, you know, being technology savvy in the future, everything that can be outsourced to technology will be, I will take care of that.

00;26;58;27 - 00;27;09;21
Mark McCrindle
But what the technology won't do is the people, staff, the caring stuff, the interaction stuff. So let's set them up, for, for time invested in that area because that will futureproof them.

00;27;10;14 - 00;27;33;23
Dave Quak 
Absolutely. My daughter's actually quite a good communicator. And we've got her to preach as well. She's young, she's 12. And the reason I did that is because you can't outsource public communication. You know, it's an innate skill. I think anyone who can communicate publicly away from their phones and communicate 1 to 1 is just guaranteed success in the future, because it's just a diminishing skill.

00;27;33;23 - 00;27;34;24
Dave Quak 
Right?

00;27;34;27 - 00;27;55;11
Mark McCrindle
So true, David. And that's a great example there with your daughter. You know, I found in in my field where in social research we have to get up and communicate the results, speak to the call. Yeah. Give a presentation at a conference. And I know with my team I found them, so adept at that because growing up in the church, you know, you end up having to run a Bible study at 14 or 15.

00;27;55;11 - 00;28;16;13
Mark McCrindle
You're participating, contributing. Maybe you're giving a testimony, when you're when you're young and and certainly I just said with your daughter, you know, getting up and giving a talk might be at a youth camp or youth group or maybe in front of the congregation, but we have this great opportunity in the church, of hearing the voices of young, of giving them those platform opportunities and helping them develop that communication skill.

00;28;16;13 - 00;28;25;26
Mark McCrindle
Now, the main thing they're communicating is the truth of God. But in the process, they're developing communication skills and engagement skills, and that's going to help them for life.

00;28;25;28 - 00;28;39;25
Dave Quak 
Absolutely, absolutely. What are you interested in at the moment? Like, I'm sure a lot of topics come across your desk and, you know, you get people solicit you for research and whatever. What do you think is coming up next? What are you looking at next?

00;28;39;28 - 00;29;02;02
Mark McCrindle
We look each year at the emerging trends and what's what's shaping society. And it's always fascinating looking at at those, we've been doing some demographic analysis, just looking at what the future of Australia is because we're growing so strongly. And so how are we going to how are we going to manage population? And, you know, the shift to the regional areas has been fascinating over the last few years.

00;29;02;02 - 00;29;18;21
Mark McCrindle
This this, growth in the outer suburbs, it used to be ever moving closer and closer to the CBD because that's where the work is. But we're seeing a decoupling of work from location. I think a future is going to be, you know, hybrid. So we're still going to gather as a workforce, but there's still going to be that work from home as part of our week as well.

00;29;18;21 - 00;29;52;02
Mark McCrindle
So that that social aspect has been fascinating, looking at at the future for our children. So can they achieve that Aussie dream of, of homeownership? You know, that's that's fascinating as well. We're seeing the ways that that's that's happening even though, you know, prices are out of control. But but you know, I think that if we these trends are important to study because we, we need to make the right changes as a nation or net communities to ensure that that we've got, hope and opportunities for the next generation people.

00;29;52;05 - 00;30;15;08
Mark McCrindle
Yeah. When they have ownership in the future, they're committed to that future. And if we've got a generation that doesn't own a home, that is not part of a community that is lifelong renter, it's harder for them to be integrated into the fabric of that community, to stay long term, to, to, to feel that they're that they've got a stake in a stable future in government in, in, in what's to come.

00;30;15;08 - 00;30;34;00
Mark McCrindle
So I think from a, a social wellbeing perspective, from a community engagement perspective, just for a, a sense of stability of our nation, of our communities. You know, getting population right, getting, homeownership right, getting affordability right, and giving hope to the next generation. These things do matter.

00;30;34;22 - 00;30;41;27
Dave Quak 
For the church places at heart. Do you think there needs to be a bit more of a push towards the regional cities and just getting ready for an influx of people out there?

00;30;42;05 - 00;31;03;28
Mark McCrindle
Yeah, well, there's just such, such opportunities there. I think that's that's great. You know, we've seen a rebalancing of Australia's population. It used to be, you know, a Sydney Melbourne focus. 1 in 5 Australians lives in Sydney. 1 in 5 lives in Melbourne. You know 2/5 of a whole nation in two cities you had in Brisbane and and Perth and maybe Adelaide, and we're at more than three quarters of the entire population does in five capitals.

00;31;04;09 - 00;31;36;04
Mark McCrindle
We're seeing a change now. We're seeing, those secondary cities, you know, you know, large states grow. But also we're seeing a lot of the coastal cities, but we're seeing a rise in the regional areas as well. The, the, the inland, the tree change, you notice the, the sea change and and phenomenal growth there. And I think for church planners and, and and all Christians that are looking to have an impact in community, that's where we need people to have a bit of a focus to, to build community in these fast growing areas.

00;31;36;21 - 00;32;01;25
Mark McCrindle
Because, you know, if Sydney grows or shrinks by a differential of, of a couple thousand people, if it's instead of 122 by 304, it's 98,000 in a year. It doesn't change it much. But if you've got a city that normally grows by 2000 a year, growing by 3000 or 3500, that's that's a massive transformation. And and those extra 500 people, that's that's a new a new church opportunity.

00;32;01;25 - 00;32;28;19
Mark McCrindle
That's a new, community hub opportunity. And I think that if we can, as church planners or as, as, community builders, keep an eye on even things like demographics, it'll help us see opportunities. What are some emerging hotspots? What are some new areas of need? What are some, ways that we can serve this community and, and some of the growth patterns and demographic trends will help us know what those cannot.

00;32;28;19 - 00;32;29;02
Mark McCrindle


00;32;29;05 - 00;32;43;15
Dave Quak 
Definitely. Do you ever get this? On a side note, do you ever get friends, come up at parties and say, Mark, where should I invest you know, where the people are moving, you know, where is going to boom next? Where should I buy a home? Do you ever get people at that array? Around the punch bowl at a party?

00;32;43;17 - 00;33;05;12
Mark McCrindle
Yeah, yeah, I do, and it's it's sort of fascinating stuff. I find it, ever interesting. I'm not, not not sure that I'd back my, my self investment advice on that, but, but look, you know, you do get a sense of the future through demographics. As has been said, demographics is destiny. It's pretty hard to know what the next five years will bring.

00;33;05;12 - 00;33;24;17
Mark McCrindle
Just generally in society. Are we going to be mature cars where we drive or we want technology where we have? But demographic modeling is pretty secure. You know, you see the trends and so we can know in five years what the population will be here. We know in ten years, which city will be larger like Melbourne's about to overtake Sydney, for example.

00;33;25;06 - 00;33;43;00
Mark McCrindle
And that that has implications when you've got a new number one city after more than a century. At that, that takes the lead. These things have implications. And you can predict these things. So yes, demographics does provide opportunities to know where to grow, what the opportunities are and and certainly how to how to serve our nation.

00;33;43;00 - 00;33;43;10
Mark McCrindle
Yeah.

00;33;43;17 - 00;34;03;04
Dave Quak 
Well, I'm thankful for you, Mark. And I'm not alone. Like so many of our pastors gatherings, we bring up your stuff and we're like, okay, what do we need to do to implement this? Because you've done the hard yards to get data that if we just implemented, we'd have some insight, you know, and so you like you're appreciated by people all over the world.

00;34;03;04 - 00;34;19;29
Dave Quak 
I'm also glad when you get your TV opportunities because, you know, when like one of the Christian representatives is on TV, you're always a little bit scared because you're like, what are they going to make us look like this time? Well, you've so well every time, and you don't even seem to get nervous on the TV. Mark, do you like it?

00;34;20;01 - 00;34;49;07
Mark McCrindle
Yeah, I think it's important. Yeah, that's what I try. And my team, and, you know, we we need to be articulate. You know, there's a lot of people that are going to speak doom and gloom, that kind of, sort of talking down rather than, you know, see the opportunities and, and I think, you know, Christians are people who speak life, because we know who holds the future and we're not dismayed, we see the ability to shape things, and we, we, we are action orientated, you know, we we we serve others.

00;34;49;07 - 00;35;12;11
Mark McCrindle
We want to step forward and and help build things. And we're community builders and we're community makers that that's what we're called to do. So yeah, I'm always happy to take those opportunities and encourage my team to do the same. Because they're all truth is God's truth. And so if it's data, if it's true, if it's accurate, we need to be people that that are speaking that and hopefully giving guidance to to to any listeners.

00;35;12;11 - 00;35;20;05
Dave Quak 
Absolutely. On logistics, if someone wants to buy your Gen Alpha book with the CBA, what's the best way for them to do that?

00;35;20;07 - 00;35;39;22
Mark McCrindle
Yeah, well, it's, on any online bookstore, they'll be able to find it to search generation Alpha. Generation of a.com is also a URL you can go to, which has got lots of free resources. Or we also put a lot of reports really accessible on our website mccrindle.com. So any of those places, you know, access some of those resources, I'm sure they'll be helpful.

00;35;39;22 - 00;35;43;20
Mark McCrindle
And, you know, it's great. Questions always get in touch. We're always happy to help.

00;35;43;22 - 00;35;57;29
Dave Quak 
Yeah. And I've noticed you send you've got a speaking team because you can only be in one place at one time, but you've got a team of people who speak in the different areas. So there's someone leadership, someone trends and whatever. If people want to engage that, they just do that through the website.

00;35;58;01 - 00;36;21;13
Mark McCrindle
Exactly. Yeah, I'd love to help. And we often speak at parents nights at, schools or, developing staff or church days or, or indeed, a lot of business events as well. So happy to add value. And, you know, that's really what I think we've been called to do to help, our society know the times, understand the trends, and then be informed to make wise, prudent decisions.

00;36;21;18 - 00;36;36;15
Mark McCrindle
And I don't think that happens when you when you look at the horizon and look at what's, what's coming and, and then that's what we try to do through the data analytics is guide people towards that, so that we can make a decision off from the Guardian, know what we want to do, but for what's the best evidence before.

00;36;36;15 - 00;36;41;10
Mark McCrindle
So yeah, we'd love to to give any input we can at any of any events that people might have in mind. Yeah.

00;36;41;12 - 00;37;16;18
Dave Quak 
And for anyone who's only hearing about Mccrindle research for the first time, because I know we've got some international people just get online and start looking at some of the demographic studies and the infographics and stuff, and you'll be sold like it is just such solid, helpful, materials at one point. Mark, I don't know if this broke your, copyright laws, so please forgive me if it did, but I printed out an entire, one of your reports was 54 pages, and then put the demographic pictures all over our church, and they stayed up there for six months just so people would start reading them and start noticing what's happening.

00;37;16;18 - 00;37;49;26
Dave Quak 
And it did change the course of our church. Our church is actually called Living Temple Christian Church, which we get teased a lot about, bro. But the name is because the people are the living temple and they take God out into society. And one of your studies equipped us for that next level, where we started realizing that the evangelism trends are about, you know, someone's genuine personal faith being represented is going to, solicit conversations with someone who's open to a change, a worldview change.

00;37;50;03 - 00;38;09;25
Dave Quak 
You know, all of those things, and adjust is helpful. So, Mark Mccrindle, I appreciate what you're doing, not just in my life, but in the body of Christ in Australia. We appreciate you like we really do. We appreciate that you give so much away. We appreciate that. You know your resources are second to none. And so thank you so much for being on.

00;38;09;28 - 00;38;18;27
Mark McCrindle
This, Mark. And thanks, David. Thanks for what you do. And, trust this is a blessing to all. And, keep it up, Greg. Podcast. So, we're all blessed or no.

00;38;19;00 - 00;38;29;25
Dave Quak 
We really love it. Now we really love having you. I always ask our guests to pray to finish us off, if that's okay. Would you mind praying for the. Yeah, just for people who heard what you had to say today to.

00;38;29;28 - 00;39;11;14
Mark McCrindle
Lord, we we thank you for these opportunities of new technology like podcasts to communicate truth and to interact with others. And we thank you for David and his ministry, his church and his podcasts, and the many ways he's impacting this society and these resources he's making available. Lord, for all the listeners, we just ask that you will, guide and bless them that they can, use your truth to, to have impact in their community, that they can be those examples that our society is looking for, that they can build community and connection point people to you and, and therefore have that hope and direction in life that they won't wallow,

00;39;11;14 - 00;39;33;02
Mark McCrindle
therefore, in anxiety, uncertainty and desperation that will know why they've been made, for whom that they might and have peace with you, and a secure eternity, that will guide them through this life. Lord, we thank you for all these opportunities you give us in the truth of your Word and the opportunity to talk about it. And, Joshua blessing, homelessness, I mean.

00;39;33;05 - 00;39;56;16
Dave Quak
For more candid conversations on faith and mental well-being, check out Something and souls.com. You can subscribe to our podcast on any major provider, or contact us directly to book us to preach or speak something. That souls is a faith based ministry, and we want to thank everybody so far for their generous support. If you want to get behind us, pray our message reaches the ears of those that need to hear it.

00;39;56;18 - 00;40;06;10
Dave Quak
Feel free to donate financially online, but if you feel obliged or manipulated to give you better off sharing a loved one a coffee instead. I'm Dave Clark from Sunburned Souls.