How to Support Someone with Mental Illness: Jess Quak’s Pastoral Guide

00;00;01;09 - 00;00;27;27
Dave Quak
Welcome to sunburned Souls. I'm Dave Quak and on this show we explore life and faith and our mental well-being. As a pastor that struggles with mental illness, I get to chat to people like me, people that love Jesus and follow the way of Christ while dealing with the messiness and brokenness of lives. Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode.

00;00;27;29 - 00;00;55;11
Dave Quak
All right, well, we've got a special guest this morning on Sunburned Souls. Now, back in the day when a guest was nervous. I don't know where this even came from. If they were presenting or something, people would say, just picture everyone in their underwear. Which I think is super creepy. But ever since this guest came in this morning, all she's done is tried to picture me in my underwear or even less than my underwear, because this woman sees me in my underwear and list thousands of times.

00;00;55;14 - 00;01;01;03
Dave Quak
And so this morning I get to interview my beautiful wife, Jess Quak So, Jess, welcome to the show.

00;01;01;04 - 00;01;03;11
Jess Quak
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

00;01;03;11 - 00;01;24;12
Dave Quak
It's nice to have you. What we want to get out of this discussion for anyone listening who is either walking with mental health or supporting somebody who has mental ill health. Today we're going to talk about the second side of things a lot. So we're called to journey with people who have mental health conditions and trek with them, and we'll watch.

00;01;24;13 - 00;01;38;11
Dave Quak
Been doing that with me for a long time. So Jess, I just want to start by saying, look, what is the best part of being married to someone with mental health conditions, especially mine with bipolar? Like, what is it? What's awesome about it? Let's stop.

00;01;38;11 - 00;02;11;21
Jess Quak
It. Well, that's the thing, isn't it? Everyone has good and tricky parts about their personality, about their mental health, whatever that may look like. And so you, you've just got like, extra things that come with your diagnosis, I suppose. But definitely you're, so good at bringing fun into health and, you know, love, like my life with you will never be boring.

00;02;11;23 - 00;02;38;20
Jess Quak
There is no way for that. Sometimes it might be nice to wish for a bit more of more. Especially in your manic times when there's a new hobby each each go round and it's, it helps push me out of my comfort zone. And it helps bring adventure into our lives and into the kids lives. And there's that real positive aspect.

00;02;38;20 - 00;03;06;14
Jess Quak
And I think that's the way God even uses that part of your personality. And just the way that your brain functions, it it can be a really beautiful and fun thing. Our house is is not that quiet house on the street. It's always full of loud. There's that laughter or loud music or loud screaming and running around the house just for fun.

00;03;06;14 - 00;03;29;23
Jess Quak
And, yeah, I think that that's that's something that's definitely a real benefit to to having you in our lives and having the way that, you know, your mental health, it does affect you, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be a negative effect. It's just different.

00;03;29;26 - 00;03;54;06
Dave Quak
Yeah. And that's one thing we don't want to ever do on Sunburned Souls is make it seem or appear like anyone with mental illness is a write off. Like, there are so many good things. Yeah. You know, and especially deep beneath that is a person that God loves who who is just on his or her own journey. There's a couple of people actually, who right around, you know, bipolar being my superpower.

00;03;54;08 - 00;04;09;25
Dave Quak
And even Stephen Fry speaks into this a fair bit, saying, like so much of his success was built on the fact that he did have bi polarization. And if you got him at the right time in the right situation, he'd kill it. And Stephen Fry has been extremely successful.

00;04;09;29 - 00;04;10;10
Jess Quak
Yeah.

00;04;10;16 - 00;04;18;02
Dave Quak
You know. Yeah. So there are the great parts and, and I would say that the same thing of all mental health conditions I guess.

00;04;18;05 - 00;04;48;25
Jess Quak
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And I think even marriage in and of itself, we will have our own struggles because of your bipolar. But it doesn't mean that if you didn't have bipolar we wouldn't have struggles anyway. Yeah. That is we are differing personalities. We have each our strengths and weaknesses. It in in a way I kind of see, mental health even though there can be battles that come with it.

00;04;48;25 - 00;05;26;08
Jess Quak
It's kind of a neutral thing. But what you choose to do with that, that can either be a positive thing or it can be something that's harmful for you and those around you. And like I it's it's really something that I think is really commendable about you and something that I really admire is for the most part, is that you allow God to use your your ups and downs to draw you closer to God and to let him use you to do lots of things that impact other lives in really positive ways.

00;05;26;11 - 00;05;34;07
Jess Quak
And, and and that can be the case, I suppose, for any kind of mental health journey that anyone is on.

00;05;34;09 - 00;05;34;29
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;05;35;02 - 00;05;50;27
Jess Quak
And, it's just knowing that, you know, that some parts of that might be harder than others, but that's, that's going to I mean, even if we were either of us was, you know, married to Jesus, who's perfect, you'd still have marriage issues because there's still someone in the marriage who's not perfect.

00;05;51;00 - 00;05;51;22
Dave Quak
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;05;51;28 - 00;06;06;27
Jess Quak
You'd find he's perfect perfectness, maybe annoying or frustrating or you just want to. Yeah. You know, it's it's not actually. Yeah. Necessarily going to be or hard just because someone has a mental health diagnosis.

00;06;07;00 - 00;06;10;07
Dave Quak
That would be frustrating because, you know, in every argument you'd lose.

00;06;10;08 - 00;06;11;02
Jess Quak
You're the wrong one.

00;06;11;02 - 00;06;39;21
Dave Quak
Yeah. That's it. You. So with that then there are some great things. I mean, we've had some amazing adventures. And I think even with spiritual gifts like the, you know, the apostolic gift that likes to initiate and start new endeavors and stuff, when you couple that with someone who's got, you know, bipolar in their manic, but at like 70% manic, where it's still very functioning and very, I guess, you know, fruitful.

00;06;39;24 - 00;06;46;02
Dave Quak
When those two things collide, you can achieve a lot in a short amount of time. And together we've been able to do some pretty cool things in ministry.

00;06;46;06 - 00;06;46;18
Jess Quak
Yeah.

00;06;46;19 - 00;07;10;29
Dave Quak
You know, and our gifts offset each other or complement each other. It's probably a better word. Yeah. So there are some pros. But today I really do want to dig into what is difficult, you know, because you're not alone. There's, you know, mental health or mental illness affects 1 in 4 Australians directly and then probably the rest of the population indirectly because of the supporters and the family members and everything.

00;07;10;29 - 00;07;17;18
Dave Quak
Why don't we start there? So like what has been a struggle for you being married to somebody like me?

00;07;17;24 - 00;07;35;17
Jess Quak
It's interesting because I actually listen to your podcast and you said, I think it's the hardest times are when you're sort of on the depressive side of your mental health swing from in your bipolar, from, you know, manic depressive sort of deal. And then I kind of giggle to myself because absolutely. No.

00;07;35;19 - 00;07;36;13
Dave Quak
Okay.

00;07;36;15 - 00;08;12;19
Jess Quak
For me, it's definitely harder when you're manic. Okay. Because with that comes specifically some aspects that can be difficult to reason with. Okay. And that is just simply part of, the hardships of that. It can be one of the great times too, but it, it can definitely can be difficult when you've got an idea in your head that you think is is going to change the world and it's going to be amazing, and all we have to do is just uproot our entire life and do it by tomorrow.

00;08;12;21 - 00;08;49;16
Jess Quak
That can be tricky to reason with, when I seem like the fun place. Okay. And there have been times where early on in our journey, there were some hurtful words spoken. Yeah, because you is still growing as a human and you're still like God was still working through, your heart in that. And, that it became a really difficult thing to have a lack of consistency with, you know, where we were going or our vision necessarily as a family.

00;08;49;18 - 00;08;53;08
Jess Quak
So that can be really tricky.

00;08;53;11 - 00;08;55;25
Dave Quak
Do you mean hurtful words around the fun stuff?

00;08;55;25 - 00;09;17;10
Jess Quak
Yeah. That, you know, it's my fault. I'm holding you back and we could do so much more and you know, what is we why do we always have to do what you want to do? When I I'm just going. No. Remember, we're just being faithful. God's called us to do. Yeah. So that that's tricky. And I think there's an element to.

00;09;17;10 - 00;09;42;25
Jess Quak
I remember we had a a lovely bipolar man come into our life, a quite a few years ago, and he was sharing about his journey with us. And there was something that he said that really, sort of raised a flag for. Hang on a second. I think there's something we need to take a closer look in.

00;09;42;25 - 00;10;21;18
Jess Quak
In your life. When he said it's it's really difficult when he's manic to not have an enemy, that there's, you know, to someone or someone might say something and no matter what it, it could be like what kind of heart it comes from, just suddenly that person is the enemy. Yeah. And, The difficult thing, I think, for us is that, when I become that person where you have seen me as the enemy trying to thwart your good life, and that's.

00;10;21;20 - 00;10;59;17
Jess Quak
Yeah, that becomes really, a really tricky place, to live. And that's where, I mean. I don't know how we would live without God, really, because I think that the beauty of it is that you have your own thing going on with God, and you come back and you, you know, apologize and love me well, and, and for me, I go to God for my strength and sense of, you know, foundation, which I think I probably have to do.

00;10;59;20 - 00;11;11;19
Jess Quak
Maybe even more as a preservation thing, more than if it wasn't the case, that, you know, I was married to someone with bipolar, but.

00;11;11;21 - 00;11;30;03
Dave Quak
It's interesting you bring that up. I mean, we've never spoken about that person talking about the enemy thing, but it's true, because I even notice in my life, I don't have, you know, vanilla relationships. I love people passionately. Yeah. Or I wish them demise.

00;11;30;05 - 00;11;30;20
Jess Quak
Yes.

00;11;30;21 - 00;11;31;11
Dave Quak
You know what I mean?

00;11;31;11 - 00;11;38;26
Jess Quak
Yeah. And they're for you or they're against you. And I am like, no, they actually may be nothing. You they really just don't.

00;11;38;27 - 00;11;42;05
Dave Quak
Yeah, that's what I appreciated. So, view.

00;11;42;06 - 00;12;03;22
Jess Quak
Really. Yeah. And so that that can be tricky because it can be even that the same person can be your enemy one moment and then they're in front of you and you're like, oh, no, I love this person to death. Then my favorite person on earth and a little bit where I need to be careful that I don't start trying to manage you.

00;12;03;29 - 00;12;04;29
Dave Quak


00;12;06;14 - 00;12;38;20
Jess Quak
And that's become a and a tricky thing where it's not my responsibility to mother you and to try and be the Holy Spirit and convict you when you're, you know, doing something that I think is in a healthy choice. But still obviously having those conversations that need to be had. But, it's actually not my job to try and micromanage that in your world, your relationships, your your choices.

00;12;38;20 - 00;12;41;24
Jess Quak
Yeah. So that that that was a hard lesson for me.

00;12;41;26 - 00;13;04;02
Dave Quak
Yeah. I remember when we went through this chat and you said to me, like, I came to the realization that you don't need me, right. And at the time, based on my history of rational responses to things like that, I got obviously my knickers in a knot and threw the toys out of the carton. You know what?

00;13;04;02 - 00;13;27;01
Dave Quak
How dare you? For a week. And then I got such a sense of relief because no person should need another person to the point that they depend on them for their salvation or for their for their existence. And when you said you didn't need me, though, at the start, I was like, man, this is hardcore. It made sense to me how much you love me, because then you choose to.

00;13;27;03 - 00;13;52;20
Dave Quak
Yeah. Want me? Yeah. You know, and you don't want someone to need you to the point, you know, of of salvation. So it essentially it is good for anyone with mental illness to have someone in their life. That's not that that is strong enough to run to God instead of any other coping mechanism. And that's one thing you do real well is that you don't need me only because you need God and you live that out, you know?

00;13;52;20 - 00;13;54;07
Dave Quak
And that's where your salvation lies.

00;13;54;14 - 00;13;54;25
Jess Quak
Yeah.

00;13;55;01 - 00;14;06;14
Dave Quak
Because if you needed me to that level, I'm going to let you down. Yeah. History has testified to that. I'm going to let you down, and I'm not going to be enough of a rock for you.

00;14;06;16 - 00;14;07;19
Jess Quak
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;14;07;20 - 00;14;11;21
Dave Quak
It doesn't mean I can't lead. It doesn't mean I can't bring Jesus into our family.

00;14;11;21 - 00;14;12;29
Jess Quak
No, absolutely.

00;14;12;29 - 00;14;18;24
Dave Quak
But it just means that you're, you know, you're not treating me as an idol, and that that essentially is the greatest.

00;14;18;27 - 00;14;53;17
Jess Quak
Yeah. And it means that I can be there like the the helper and the partner for you that you need, and that you can be that for me. I mean, we all have our own weaknesses and we will need each other in, in an aspect where we, we do rely on each other for things. But ultimately, when it comes down to it, we need to be secure and secure enough in God that we can stand on our own two feet so we're strong enough to be there for the other person.

00;14;53;17 - 00;15;13;08
Jess Quak
When things are difficult. And you have been that for me as well. And I know that is hard for you as well. I've had my own, you know, when we were initially dating and married, I had my own mental health challenges and that that was really interesting. Having those two bounce off each other was,

00;15;13;11 - 00;15;16;25
Dave Quak
You know, it was far from here was a mania.

00;15;17;01 - 00;15;41;06
Jess Quak
Yeah. But in that as well, like, I knew you and I knew that these were aspects of your personality that I was marrying. And I committed to you like I stood before God, and I made a vow that this is the person who I'm going to be faithful with. And. Yeah, and not just faithful as in not straying, but faithfully love the way that God loves me.

00;15;41;09 - 00;16;02;06
Jess Quak
Continuing to forgive each day. Starting each day fresh. Yeah, that's what I made the commitment to do. Whether or not you were diagnosed then or not, you're still. You. Yeah. Although you have. Looking back, we have changed a lot. But thankfully, because of God's grace for the better.

00;16;02;08 - 00;16;02;19
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;16;02;19 - 00;16;23;00
Jess Quak
In so many ways. But, yeah, we did have our own challenges at the start in a big way. But then, like, my physical health, has not been fantastic over the years. And and you've been there for me in that even when I know that it's hard and somewhat knowing that it's hard, and yet you're still choosing to do it.

00;16;23;02 - 00;16;33;02
Jess Quak
Even that in and of itself is a blessing because it it is that you are choosing to love me. And, and that's, a really beautiful thing.

00;16;33;07 - 00;16;53;02
Dave Quak
Yeah. Thank you. I think the hard thing is that I know that it's going to be a matter of time before I wine and dine you for, another sales pitch or some idea is going to get stuck in my head and I'm going to be, you know, waiting to be like, okay, this is going to get on and playing all the angles, like.

00;16;53;04 - 00;17;09;05
Dave Quak
And it's not that honestly, it's not actually, honestly that I don't have self-control. It's just that it just seems to make so much sense to me. And that's part of the burden I have to bear, you know? And I've got to learn to grow in that. Maybe I'll need some better, like, protective mechanisms or a filter of some sort.

00;17;09;05 - 00;17;20;05
Dave Quak
Maybe. You know, I only can make a decision if I've thought about it for two weeks or two months or whatever. Yeah. You know, before pulling the trigger, because usually things leave as fast as they can.

00;17;20;05 - 00;17;58;28
Jess Quak
Oh, yeah. And that's where it's actually been really interesting in recent years, having the kids come along in your mental health journey, because I think that was really difficult, probably personally for me, when we knew what was going on. I probably suspected long before you did that you actually had bipolar. Yeah. And just sort of adjusted accordingly. But for the kids, it could be confusing when, you know, dad's a bit like this one day, but he's like that the other day, and I mean 100% what you're saying on day one and day two.

00;17;59;00 - 00;18;00;05
Jess Quak
But there's different things.

00;18;00;07 - 00;18;01;18
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;18;01;21 - 00;18;30;19
Jess Quak
So bringing them along the journey and giving them an understanding. They are such beautiful and compassionate children. Yeah. It's been really good for them, I think, to not that we burden them with that. The hard aspects we you know, there's things you still sort of shelter them from. But like I remember, you know, Melanie joking at the table when you recently had a, an idea which I did was which.

00;18;30;21 - 00;18;33;20
Jess Quak
So it was a few ideas ago, but you were like, we should.

00;18;33;23 - 00;18;34;23
Dave Quak
If you like.

00;18;34;25 - 00;18;54;16
Jess Quak
You said a few days ago, but you were like, look, guys, I've got all these, these boat engines, and let's just spend some time and we'll learn how to fix them up together. And that will be such a fun project to do. And the kids were like, dad, you don't know how to do any of this stuff, and we don't have this kind of time.

00;18;54;18 - 00;19;00;16
Jess Quak
And, and Melanie, our daughter tends to me and she goes, like, give it three weeks.

00;19;00;18 - 00;19;14;05
Dave Quak
She's very intuitive. Yeah, it makes sense because we'd already brought the engine hoist. Right? So I'm like, well, I put the engine hoist to put just the original engine. And I'm like, well, we've got the hoist. It's still a few more. And it turns out I hate.

00;19;14;08 - 00;19;15;21
Jess Quak
Yeah, you hate that stuff.

00;19;15;21 - 00;19;18;02
Dave Quak
And I didn't even know any about anything about it.

00;19;18;02 - 00;19;36;20
Jess Quak
Yeah. And so sometimes your ideas will even be. Yeah, I'm just so ludicrous for who you are. We just go. You. If you thought about this, when you were thinking, really? Well, you wouldn't know that this is something you would actually hate in real life. In your mind. It's a great idea right now. Yeah, but the reality of it you hate.

00;19;36;23 - 00;19;56;22
Jess Quak
And so I think in recent years, and I think particularly the medication has been a game changer, such a blessing from God. Yeah. That it is really helps, but and it's and it's also been helpful for me. We have some friends. One of the couple has been diagnosed with bipolar also. And it's been really healthy for us.

00;19;56;22 - 00;20;19;07
Jess Quak
And it's been a really lovely thing that, you and this other person with bipolar have been able to get together at times and, and discuss, you know, this is hard and I don't think that we're being understood, you know, those sorts of things. And then the partner who doesn't have bipolar and I will also sometimes, you know, get together and go, you know, how are you going?

00;20;19;07 - 00;20;40;04
Jess Quak
And, and also there's always a bit of fun of like, okay, tell me what's happened. And it's, it's kind of like what's happening in the reality show of your life. Like what's been the the most recent crazy thing. Yeah. That's, that's going on there. And, you know, sometimes it's like you laugh. So to cry that is.

00;20;40;06 - 00;20;40;24
Dave Quak
This.

00;20;40;27 - 00;21;03;25
Jess Quak
Is a lot of laughter and, knowing that God has got us and got this and it does give you the freedom to just to laugh and just go, wow, our life is wild. And there's hard things that come with it. But, yeah, that's, you know, I'm never going to have an issue, you know, marriage where I'm like, wow, we're so boring now.

00;21;03;26 - 00;21;23;21
Dave Quak
It's not boring. I'm a bit worried about the next couple of years in a sense that our kids, 15, 13 and we have such different parenting kind of like techniques and expectations and rules and things like that. Was, okay, so just went on the road trip with Melanie. And they were gone for a week.

00;21;23;21 - 00;21;41;24
Dave Quak
And so me and my son were home and we just sat at home eating meat all week, just hanging out. Anyway, the day after just got back was a birthday. So her, my son and I went to the shops to buy a whole bunch of presents and we bought like what we do in our family is like we build up to the best present.

00;21;41;27 - 00;22;12;00
Dave Quak
And so we bought like little things like, you know, bath, wash and water. And it just built up to this really awesome perfume that we gave Jess. As we're walking out of the shops, we walk past a tobacco nest, and my son and I decided that it would be funny to buy Jess a vape. Now, for those of you who don't know Jess, the reason we thought it was funny is because she's the last person on the planet who would ever buy a vape.

00;22;12;02 - 00;22;31;18
Dave Quak
And so we just pictured, it's a vibe. And so we just bought a $10 disposable vape, and it was the last present. Now, I thought it was hilarious. I thought, like, I just thought it was funny. And I got home and then gave it to Jess and she, you know, she was nice and gentle and didn't say much.

00;22;31;18 - 00;22;38;07
Dave Quak
But about a week later we had a pretty decent fight about that. Tell us why that sort of thing isn't funny to you.

00;22;38;09 - 00;23;14;27
Jess Quak
Yeah, I think the difficulty is that, particularly given your, tendencies for addiction, and that that doesn't necessarily mean, you know, drugs or alcohol even. It's just that even with the mania that. Yeah, you know, at the moment, if there is a single bit of chocolate in the house, it is not there for long because it's just, it's it's something that at the moment you just cannot stop, or find it really difficult to to do that.

00;23;15;04 - 00;23;44;02
Jess Quak
So with those things, they're not always healthy things. And they it makes it really difficult for me on a moral level to be to go like, look, I don't agree with this necessarily. This is this is a choice that God would have us make. Especially if it's if it's not healthy for you. It's not helping. And that's not what I want to set our kids up for.

00;23;44;02 - 00;24;28;16
Jess Quak
And so I suppose in earlier years, we'd really shield them from anything that, that had that. But in recent years, as they're getting older and that they, add differing opinions on things, it, it does affect them at a time when they, really in a vulnerable space with, as they're getting their own identity and making their own choices and as someone that they look up to as a parent, you know, this is a time when I really feel that we're meant to be sowing into them a good example of what it means to walk a life where our bodies belong to Christ as much as everything else.

00;24;28;23 - 00;24;48;26
Dave Quak
And for those listening who think, Dave, that's just a jerk move before you go there, which is probably warranted in that moment. I'm not thinking, ha ha, Jess, I'm not thinking hope Josiah vapes. I'm not thinking any of that. No, all I'm thinking of is this will be bloody funny. Yes. You know, and and. Yeah, well, have to be funny.

00;24;48;26 - 00;24;53;16
Dave Quak
And then when I like, have it, it'll be funny and all of that. But it just.

00;24;53;19 - 00;25;14;02
Jess Quak
And for me I was like this is like one of the things that really gets to me. One thing that's really hard with your bipolar, especially when you're manic, I think is probably one of the biggest difficulties, is that whole mindset of it doesn't matter what it is or where the line is, if it's funny.

00;25;14;05 - 00;25;15;16
Dave Quak


00;25;15;18 - 00;25;17;17
Jess Quak
It's funny. So let's just do it.

00;25;17;20 - 00;25;35;27
Dave Quak
Yeah. And we had that in Thailand as well. So yeah. Because when we went to Thailand last year marijuana had been legalized a couple of years earlier. So there was literally just pop up stands everywhere with all these guys rolling joints and whatever. And I just found it funny. I was like, oh, look at that guy. He's golden brown, he's blah blah blah.

00;25;35;29 - 00;25;48;17
Dave Quak
And that also sort of resulted in a similar conversation. When you like, you can't make light of this stuff. Whereas at the time I wasn't, you know, it wasn't like I was trying to give the kids a license to treat it lightly. I just thought it was novel and funny.

00;25;48;20 - 00;25;49;02
Jess Quak
Yeah.

00;25;49;02 - 00;25;49;26
Dave Quak
You know.

00;25;49;28 - 00;26;03;12
Jess Quak
Yeah. And so, yeah, and for me, my concern is like the, the longer term effects of, of like, hey, like let's look at why we do things the way that we do them. And what is God feel about it.

00;26;03;12 - 00;26;05;13
Dave Quak
Yeah. Yeah.

00;26;05;15 - 00;26;24;23
Jess Quak
So that was. Yeah. And with the vaping thing that was particularly for my birthday, I was like, oh, come on, like, this is like one thing that, you know, when Dave and I first met, he was a smoker. And that was one of the things that I said, I will never marry someone who smokes. That's one thing. It's a hard line for me.

00;26;24;27 - 00;26;26;07
Dave Quak
She said that before we dated.

00;26;26;07 - 00;26;38;08
Jess Quak
Before we dated, I was like, it's the equivalent of watching someone self-harm. To me, it's just not cool. And then early on in marriage, we had a few difficulties because you still would.

00;26;38;11 - 00;26;39;06
Dave Quak
Yes. Naked.

00;26;39;09 - 00;26;43;17
Jess Quak
Naked. Go. I'd be like, you think I can't smell it on you? Like, are you serious?

00;26;43;22 - 00;26;45;25
Dave Quak
What's up with me? And my brother played golf.

00;26;45;27 - 00;27;07;07
Jess Quak
Yeah. Oh, well, it was iffy, but it was kind of like. Yeah, it was like a broken trust thing is one of those really difficult, like, men. As if things aren't hard enough already. And so to then come and then bring the sun in on it, I was like, are you for real? It's my birthday. But for you, I totally understood that you were coming from a place of this is hilarious.

00;27;07;07 - 00;27;25;15
Jess Quak
And I know as well that you then also spoke to the kids about like, this is not something you want to put in your life. This is not like you use it as, as a in a way that I think was like, okay, this is good. You're having these conversations that are open with the kids where you're talking about these.

00;27;25;18 - 00;27;37;05
Jess Quak
But at the same time, I was a bit devastated because I was like, oh, I haven't seen you in ten days. And I just wanted to hang out. I wasn't expecting any presents. So it was like, well, this is amazing to suddenly like crash.

00;27;37;08 - 00;27;43;16
Dave Quak
Yeah. Whereas I approach it or was like, there's ten other good presents, including this really expensive perfume. Just focus on.

00;27;43;16 - 00;27;44;11
Jess Quak
Them. Yeah.

00;27;44;13 - 00;28;03;19
Dave Quak
You know, and that's just been I mean, that's it I suppose every marriage is you come at things from different angles, but I also come from such extreme different angles that that scares me sometimes. Hell acute that is in the audio studies and I think, yeah, like you said, like when we're having conversations and both are adamant that way.

00;28;03;20 - 00;28;19;03
Dave Quak
Right. Yeah. That I think that's a universal thing. Everyone who's having an argument thinks they're right. Unless they just like to argue. But in our case, it is accentuated because you've got such high moral standards, which doesn't come from a place of legal is I mean, that that.

00;28;19;03 - 00;28;20;20
Jess Quak
Did used to be an issue with us. Yeah.

00;28;20;20 - 00;28;36;13
Dave Quak
Yeah. But yeah, that was a part of our life in the early days. I thought you're a legalist. But it does come from a place of conviction. So, yeah. You know, and it comes from a place of genuine relationship with Jesus. So you're not doing it because you're trying to earn salvation. You're doing it because you love him and it's who you are.

00;28;36;16 - 00;28;37;00
Jess Quak
Yeah.

00;28;37;02 - 00;28;43;18
Dave Quak
You know, and you've never pretended not to do that. I guess it's just so it's difficult when we just approach life so differently.

00;28;43;23 - 00;28;44;12
Jess Quak
Yeah.

00;28;44;15 - 00;28;51;21
Dave Quak
I just want to encourage anyone else who's in a relationship with someone with mental health issues. It even though you're so different sometimes, it still is workable.

00;28;51;27 - 00;28;52;07
Jess Quak
Yeah.

00;28;52;07 - 00;29;16;06
Dave Quak
That's like I'm convinced that we are going to not get divorced twice. That's good. Hey, it's 20 years in and it's just getting better. It's getting stranger sometimes because my mental health is getting more complex. I think that there needs to still remain that steadfastness to say, you know, we in our marriage vows, we said through, you know, better and worse and, yeah, thick and thin, we were gonna stay together.

00;29;16;10 - 00;29;20;00
Dave Quak
Yeah. So it is a choice, but it's just a really hard choice sometimes.

00;29;20;03 - 00;29;46;25
Jess Quak
Yeah. And and that's where I think it's really important that the love that God has for us is really real to us. Because we need that love that that all consuming love that is so beyond all our messed up ness that we experience already now selves, so that we can have something to share in our marriage. Yeah, I think without that, I don't know where we would be.

00;29;46;27 - 00;29;49;04
Dave Quak
Because it'd be no reason to push through the hardest time.

00;29;49;05 - 00;29;49;23
Jess Quak
It would have.

00;29;49;23 - 00;29;51;11
Dave Quak
Been a covenant otherwise.

00;29;51;11 - 00;30;13;05
Jess Quak
Yeah, it would be really, beyond my ability. Yeah. And I think even feud would be on yours as well. There's a great way in which God uses us in our and our differences, and the way that we work together to show as well that he uses people who are so different. And he loves people who are so different.

00;30;13;10 - 00;30;39;20
Jess Quak
Yeah. And I know, you know, early on in ministry, even when we were doing things together and we would have a hard we can, you were doing things that I wouldn't agree with and I was like, God, how could you use this guy? Like, have you seen him? Because I have. And what's the deal? Like he does not deserve to be in this position.

00;30;39;23 - 00;31;05;25
Jess Quak
He doesn't deserve to be such a participant of your grace. And it was a real humbling thing for me because I came to realize that, no, I am just as undeserving. Yeah. And I am just as in need of his grace and I think without seeing the way that you have a genuine relationship with God, I could have become down the track legalistic, even though it came from a very good place.

00;31;05;25 - 00;31;28;14
Jess Quak
You know that, you know Jesus's love for me and I just adore him for all that he's done. The reality of of the way that he's made his love real to me each and every day. But that could have become twisted had I not had you in my life. For me to see the grace of God in, in someone so different from me.

00;31;28;17 - 00;31;55;01
Jess Quak
Yeah. And using you so differently to me. But, you know, real complimentary. Wait and see. The fruit of it. Yeah. And at the end of the day for me, like on days that are really hard and days when you're not necessarily being a great husband, I got I, you know, come back to where God sort of whispered in my heart one day I'm going to stand before him at the end of this life, and he's not going to ask me how good of a job you did as the husband.

00;31;55;03 - 00;32;00;05
Jess Quak
He's going to ask me how I loved as a wife. And it wasn't like he loved me.

00;32;00;10 - 00;32;01;22
Dave Quak
Yeah.

00;32;01;24 - 00;32;09;14
Jess Quak
And so that's really key, I think. And I think that, yeah, his grace has been really great in our marriage.

00;32;09;21 - 00;32;25;29
Dave Quak
I think you're right. And I think that passage we often hear that says, you know, as far as it depends on you live at peace with everybody. Like at the end of the day, I can't control you. You can't control me. Yeah. You know, we can do our best to live at peace with each other. And that's that's sort of it.

00;32;26;06 - 00;32;26;29
Jess Quak
Yeah.

00;32;27;01 - 00;32;49;07
Dave Quak
I do, I do reckon I got like a 89% chance that we're going to have a fun couple of decades ahead. There's going to be 89% great times and then 11% abrasiveness. And I can handle those ratios. All right. We can in my mind, you know, I did the research and worked out the percentages. So but I mean it's just rubbing off on each other like the other day.

00;32;49;10 - 00;33;07;23
Dave Quak
You know, I just just pointed out earlier that I often get ideas of things that I'd want to do that I think I'd want to do, and I'd really actually hate them. Lately it's been thinking about buying a farm. I think it's because my friend's looking at buying a farm. But like when I'm buying a farm, you know, raising animals and having an orchard and stuff.

00;33;07;23 - 00;33;25;17
Dave Quak
And then yesterday I mowed the lawn and our lawn is 459m², and I hated every second of it, you know, out of the little square in at the mall and like, yeah. Hating the sweat. Yeah. You know, so those 11% of the times they're going to be abrasive. But we're going to get through.

00;33;25;20 - 00;33;26;17
Jess Quak
Yeah.

00;33;26;19 - 00;33;42;29
Dave Quak
Just as we start to wind up Jess what would you say to partners of people with mental health conditions when it comes to their own spirituality. You know, like minister to them? What would you if you're in a room with them, you're their pastor because you're pursuing your own right. What would you say to them?

00;33;43;00 - 00;34;09;18
Jess Quak
Take the scriptures seriously for what they actually say. For me, it's been such a a beautiful thing to run to the Psalms in times when I'm angry or hurt and and to know that God is my hiding place and he's my rock and he's my shelter, and I can go to him to get all that I need. But also the call of Jesus when he says, look, follow me.

00;34;09;23 - 00;34;10;22
Jess Quak
And then he walks to the.

00;34;10;22 - 00;34;12;03
Dave Quak
Cross.

00;34;12;05 - 00;34;23;07
Jess Quak
And he puts up with people around him who are difficult. And like, I look at some of the people in Scripture and I'm like, Peter, he reminds me of David.

00;34;23;09 - 00;34;26;03
Dave Quak
He would love to lop someone's ear off. Yeah.

00;34;26;03 - 00;34;55;10
Jess Quak
I'm like, that's like, Jesus. It's not like he dealt with perfect people and he did it with love and beauty and grace. And that's the kind of person I want to be to. For those people who are, dealing with people in their life who have mental health issues and particularly bipolar, it is hard knowing that that's okay, that it's hard and that you're saying that, yeah, that can be really tricky.

00;34;55;10 - 00;35;14;18
Jess Quak
And I know that everyone is the same and not everyone would be dealing with it as well as Dave does. Not that he's always dealt with it perfectly, but there are things that can be really difficult that come with this struggle, and it's okay that it's hard, it's okay, and you're going to be okay, and God has got you.

00;35;14;20 - 00;35;18;21
Jess Quak
So he needs to be your rock and yeah, and lean into that.

00;35;18;23 - 00;35;40;18
Dave Quak
Yeah, I love that. So here at Some Bent Souls, we are here to try to foster community. If anything you've said resonates, try to get on our website every month or so. We're going to run some online gatherings where we can chat this stuff through and to host em via zoom, as well. Feel free to chuck us an email, even if you want an online chat or someone to pray with or something.

00;35;40;18 - 00;35;53;29
Dave Quak
We do want to be here for you guys and maybe listen to episode one if you haven't yet. Just about what it means to be on the other side of the fence as well. And well, just why don't you pray for our beautiful listeners as we finish up?

00;35;54;02 - 00;36;17;04
Jess Quak
Yeah. Lord, I just thank you for every person who's tuned in right now, and we ask for your peace and grace to cover them, made the very tangible sense of your spirit be calling to their innermost being and touching that desire to be fully known and fully loved. That that place where only you can meet with full satisfaction.

00;36;17;06 - 00;36;41;12
Jess Quak
And Lord, I just ask that where there are people who, are crying out for help now that they will not only find that in you, but show them people in their world who they can turn to, and also let us all grow in the grace for those around us, because we all have struggles. You know, I always let us be people of gentleness and grace that you see.

00;36;41;14 - 00;36;44;05
Dave Quak
Amen. Amen. Thank you. Jess.

00;36;44;08 - 00;36;50;01
Jess Quak
Okay. Thanks for having me.

00;36;50;03 - 00;37;13;16
Dave Quak
For more candid conversations on faith and mental well-being, check out Some Bent souls.com. You can subscribe to our podcast on any major provider, or contact us directly to book us to preach or speak. Some of That souls is a faith based ministry, and we want to thank everybody so far for their generous support. If you want to get behind us, pray our message reaches the ears of those that need to hear it.

00;37;13;18 - 00;37;23;10
Dave Quak
Feel free to donate financially online, but if you feel obliged or manipulated to give you better off sharing a loved one a coffee instead. I'm Dave Clark from Summer solace.