Gut Health and Mental Well-Being: Naturopath Esther Thomas Explains the Connection

Dave Quak 
Welcome to Sunburnt Souls. My name is Dave Quak, and a couple of months ago, I took a stool sample, which I know is a gross thing to do, but I sent it away to get analysed in order to see where my gut health is and see what sort of effect my gut is having on my mental health. And what that looks like.

00:00:19:15 - 00:00:38:13
Dave Quak 
Today is a super interesting episode where we go and visit Esther Thomas, who's a natural path. We're going to talk all these things through. So if you've ever wondered about gut health and mental health and the relationship between the two, this is the episode for you. Thanks for tuning into some bonus holes. I'm here with my friend Esther Thomas.

00:00:38:13 - 00:00:51:08
Dave Quak 
I've got to know Esther a lot over the last couple of years. She is a woman of faith and natural path, an entrepreneur, a wife, a pastor, a whole bunch of stuff. Esther, thanks for coming on. Some souls.

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Esther Thomas
Oh, you're welcome. Thanks for having me.

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Dave Quak 
That's our pleasure. So you're a natural path. We're going to start with that and you'll journey towards being that, what is a natural path and what's the name? Your business and how can people find you? Let's start there.

00:01:05:18 - 00:01:36:22
Esther Thomas
Yeah. Cool. So, I studied a bachelor of health science, specializing in naturopathy. So basically naturopathy is, utilizing natural medicine and enhancing the body's natural healing abilities. So we try and get to the root cause of what's going on in the body so that we can heal that, treat that, and then have long lasting health into the future rather than just simply putting a Band-Aid over your symptoms.

00:01:36:24 - 00:01:38:03
Esther Thomas
And hoping for the best.

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Dave Quak 
Okay, so bachelor level study university. So three full years or something or.

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Esther Thomas
Four years, but probably the equivalent of 5 to 6 years with the amount of subjects and study load that we did, it was very intense.

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Dave Quak 
Yeah, yeah. A lot of friends studying it at the moment. And yeah it's hectic. Yeah. She's working very.

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Esther Thomas
Hectic. Yes, yes. I didn't think I was going to make it through but here we are. Yeah.

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Dave Quak 
That's so good. And you're a woman of faith. How long you know Jesus.

00:02:03:12 - 00:02:25:14
Esther Thomas
Oh, pretty much my whole life. Yeah. So. Yeah. Yes. And also, to answer your question, the name of the business is only a health that I have. So I have a little clinic here in Springwood, Queensland. We have naturopaths here, we have counseling, we have remedial massage and, and yeah, we see people both in-person and online globally.

00:02:25:14 - 00:02:30:06
Esther Thomas
So if you're listening from somewhere else and you want to get in touch, we are happy to see you.

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Dave Quak 
Yeah. And we'll put all the, links to this place in the show notes. I like how you undersold it. You said a little clinic, but it's beautiful in here. It's a really lovely, calming place. I. I appreciate this place. I'm in here drinking some sort of fancy tea, which I'm sure we'll talk about, but just the atmosphere is really lovely.

00:02:48:12 - 00:03:04:07
Dave Quak 
And, yeah, I like how you've set it up where you see clients from all different, well, views. But you over there I can see a scripture on the wall and on the way in there is some music playing which I recognize was, you know, piano worship. Yeah. So you're incorporating your faith into your business too?

00:03:04:07 - 00:03:23:19
Esther Thomas
Absolutely. Yeah. And I, often get the opportunity to pray with people that I know, people of faith as well. And sometimes also people who don't know the Lord. So it's kind of a bit become like a ministry as well as, as well as a clinic. So really privileged to be able to help people in their health journeys.

00:03:23:19 - 00:03:38:20
Esther Thomas
And, you know, often when people come and see me, they're sometimes in a pretty desperate place to get answers. So it's great to be able to incorporate both God and, things that we can be doing in our bodies to improve our health as well.

00:03:38:22 - 00:03:51:03
Dave Quak 
So as a woman of faith, what led you to this kind of field then? You know, you're obviously an intelligent person. You could have done any medicine. You chose to, you know, and gone into whichever field. Why naturopathy.

00:03:51:05 - 00:04:15:22
Esther Thomas
Yeah. Good question. I actually, was working as a school chaplain, and I thought that I'd be doing some kind of youth work forever. Always had a passion for people. So. But as a teenager, I struggled with my own health issues. I developed chronic fatigue, and had to have time off school. And this had a big effect on my life.

00:04:15:22 - 00:04:35:10
Esther Thomas
And just for years and years, I was trying to get answers, wasn't getting answers, basically was told that I was just a lazy teenager and, went from being age champion at school to not being able to get out of bed. So it was pretty significant. And, and then I started to see a natural path. I actually had no idea what a natural path was.

00:04:35:12 - 00:04:57:15
Esther Thomas
And then he just linked all of these dots together for me. And, we started to treat the root cause, and I started to improve in my health. And this was just a light bulb moment for me. So even though I went on to pursue, working with teenagers in that kind of community services space, I still kept kind of coming back to natural medicine.

00:04:57:15 - 00:05:21:08
Esther Thomas
In my spare time. I was reading articles. I was, you know, improving my diet, doing all of these things. So I just kept kind of coming back to it and, yeah, just really clearly felt, God starting to draw me away from chaplaincy. And he gave me a really clear nudge towards studying naturopathy, through a dream, actually.

00:05:21:08 - 00:05:28:04
Esther Thomas
So, and opening some doors that were very supernatural. So, yeah, it was very clear that this was the path that I was meant to go down.

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Dave Quak 
That's awesome. Yeah, that's really cool. And so does does does it mean when you say, you know, naturopathy that your mode of treatment is anything natural through creation? Is that what is it? What is what does it actually mean when you say someone's a natural path?

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Esther Thomas
Yeah. So I mean when you see a natural path, basically we will take a deep dive into your health. We'll go through your whole health history. We send we spend a decent amount of time with you, usually an hour or so, going through everything. So we get that holistic understand of your understanding of your body. We do physical examinations, all of that type of thing.

00:06:07:23 - 00:06:45:12
Esther Thomas
But then what we're trying to do is figure out what are the imbalances that can be contributing to your symptoms. And so we do treat that, oftentimes through diet, through, nutritional supplements. So addressing nutritional imbalances in the body. And then also we use herbal medicine as well. Herbs are incredible. Studying them at university just blew my mind and made me realize more and more and more how awesome our God is, because the way that this synergistic, constituents of each of these herbs work together to produce something is amazing.

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Esther Thomas
And, a lot of, a lot of even mainstream medicine we see today, have been based off certain things that herbs have done, as well. So we do use a combination of those things and also lifestyle tweaks and things like that as well.

00:07:00:00 - 00:07:25:04
Dave Quak 
So yeah, nice. Well, one reason I'm here is because we were talking one day at another event and you're talking about the link between, you know, mental health and gut health and some of the things you specialize in. Yeah. And you invited me to come up. Yep. Which was awesome. And then maybe what was it? Six weeks ago we had our first consultation and you gave me a test to do, and I went away and did that test.

00:07:25:05 - 00:07:52:05
Dave Quak 
Now, full disclosure, I felt like a bit of a weirdo because as part of the test, I had to catch a poo on a, on a container thing, which is logistically harder than you imagine because there's not a lot of reach down room and then send some of the samples away. But then we got some real insight into what's going on in gut health and what might be going on in my relationship between mental health and gut health.

00:07:52:05 - 00:08:02:23
Dave Quak 
And so I'd love for you to speak into that for us and for anyone listening as well. These are tests that you can do as well. So if you want to come and see Esther and do a similar thing to what we're talking about today, you can do that.

00:08:03:00 - 00:08:11:15
Esther Thomas
Absolutely. Yeah. So these tests are really comprehensive. Definitely not the most pleasant to do. I've done one myself. It's very awkward. But,

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Dave Quak 
I just felt like I was like a toddler again, playing with something I shouldn't be playing with, you know, because you got to scoop it around and stuff. And anyway, continue. So you got it. You got it. You felt awkward, too. Then I feel good. Yes, yes.

00:08:23:15 - 00:08:36:08
Esther Thomas
Very much so. But us natural past love to talk about, poo and you will bowel motions. So, definitely expect that if you come in to see a natural path, you will be asked those questions. Yes.

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Dave Quak 
And you got little pitches as well. I remember on the first one you had a picture and you're like, which one is it? Most like, I'm like, I don't know, is there a right or wrong answer here? Is this what can I get graded on this?

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Esther Thomas
I think the funniest one is when I ask if people have undigested food in their bowel motions, and then most people go, oh, I don't know, I don't look.

00:08:53:16 - 00:09:03:13
Dave Quak 
Yeah, well everyone's like, well, everyone has corn and that's me. Yes. Hey, in our Q&A session later, you have to tell me why everyone has corn. But please continue.

00:09:03:15 - 00:09:19:05
Esther Thomas
Oh, yes. So, So, yeah, Dave completed this test and we got some really, really interesting insights into what might be, contributing to some of what's going on for Dave, in his mental health and in his gut.

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Dave Quak 


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Esther Thomas
So, would you like me to just dive in?

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Dave Quak 
I know, yeah, I think so. Just as a precursor, could you just explain for anyone what gut bacteria is? You know how you talked me through this earlier? I didn't realize there's good and bad gut bacteria. Now, some people are listening. Der Dave, everyone knows this. Yes, but I didn't know. So there's two types of bacteria in the gut, actually.

00:09:43:06 - 00:10:06:21
Esther Thomas
Yep, yep. There's lots of different types of bacteria in the gut. So there's, you know, you've got viral pathogens, bacterial pathogens. And then you've got a lot of the really good bacteria that's essential for your body to function. Well, this heaps of different things. It's basically like a universe, inside your gut. So, Yeah, millions and millions of different types of bacteria.

00:10:06:23 - 00:10:08:00
Esther Thomas
Okay. So, yeah.

00:10:08:04 - 00:10:13:06
Dave Quak 
And that test we did gave you an analysis of what's going on with all of that.

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Esther Thomas
Yes. Okay. Yes. Maybe not all of it, but we got a good snapshot of your gut health. Yeah. And what's present in your gut as well?

00:10:24:17 - 00:10:26:07
Dave Quak 
Cool. Well, let's go for it, then. Go.

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Esther Thomas
Yeah, yeah. So, so there is definitely a gut brain connection. So you might have heard of this before. So, there is a lot of of your, essential, neurotransmitters and everything like that that are produced in the gut, like serotonin. And these really help to regulate your mood and things like that as well. So there's a very big link between your gut and your brain, heaps and heaps of research on it.

00:10:57:11 - 00:11:22:00
Esther Thomas
If you want to take a deeper dive. So basically, first up, the function of, your gut, Dave was pretty good. So, your short chain fatty acids or your functional markers were, within range. So that's really great. You didn't have any parasites or anything like that going on. So we know that that's that's not a picture for you.

00:11:22:02 - 00:11:52:18
Esther Thomas
We you did have a couple of, of more negative bacteria in the gut called Enterococcus species. So there was a bit of overgrowth of these bacteria. So, they aren't necessarily super bad, but they really disrupt the balance of your gut. So, they can increase things like leaky gut, so intestinal permeability and, also have an effect on your mental health as well.

00:11:52:20 - 00:12:20:11
Esther Thomas
So they can produce things like high histamine as well. So histamine also can contribute to things like anxiety, insomnia, irritability those types of things. And also can increase the inflammation, in both the gut and the brain. So this can be like think of this more as kind of fuel to the fire. Not really a causing factor, but something that's exacerbating, what's going on in your body?

00:12:20:13 - 00:12:29:13
Dave Quak 
Okay, so that's the bad side. So with those the absence of lots of them is a good thing, correct? Yes. Okay. So there's a couple there I forgot to deal with. Yep.

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Esther Thomas
Yeah. So I've definitely seen in some of the tests that I've done that some people have really, really high amounts and a lot of different strains of bad bacteria and sometimes parasites and worms and other things going on as well. So for you to just have two, it's not too bad. Yeah. And these aren't super severe.

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Esther Thomas
Anything to really significantly worry about. Yeah. It's just being noting that there, there is such and so we can, do our best to, combat.

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Dave Quak 
Them. Yeah. And part of a natural path job is to then bring a restoration process high. So to bring getting rid of the bad and, you know.

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Esther Thomas
Yeah.

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Dave Quak 
Propagating the good okay. So that was that was actually good news. So as you were reading about before, when we were, when you were going through those, you're like, you've got none of this. I was like, I'm going to get an A+. But then we went to the good bacteria and there is an absence of good.

00:13:24:24 - 00:13:49:23
Esther Thomas
Yes, there is an absence of good. Pretty much. You have no good bacteria in your gut. Very, very little. So this is not ideal. Yes. You need all of that good bacteria for, your overall health, but also longevity, all of those types of things, reducing the risk of diseases and, and, all of that into aging, especially.

00:13:50:04 - 00:14:16:12
Esther Thomas
So, these types of things can be wiped out by lots of different things. So the good bacteria of your gut, if you've had antibiotic use in the past, you've had different medications, you've had high stress, poor diet. All of these types of things can actually wipe out the good bacteria in your gut. And if you're not replenishing that bacteria, that good bacteria, then it's going to stay depleted or really low.

00:14:16:14 - 00:14:22:04
Esther Thomas
So, yeah. So you pretty much have almost no good bacteria in your gut.

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Dave Quak 
And this is scientifically proven. This isn't just us making a decision. This is a process. It's gone to the lab and come back saying there's actually nothing here. Yeah. Which is a bit scary because some of the good bacteria helps produce things I need. Right?

00:14:36:15 - 00:14:44:19
Esther Thomas
Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Lots of different things. So, if you like, I can go through, some of this specific bacteria.

00:14:44:21 - 00:14:57:08
Dave Quak 
Yeah. I think yes. Because of the as well, because we're talking about mental health. Like, there might be people listening who are like, okay, so what's this got to do with mental health? You shared with me before a lot. It's got a lot to do with mental illness.

00:14:57:09 - 00:15:21:12
Esther Thomas
Yes, absolutely. It does have a lot. And also you mentioned having having a few gut issues as well. So we can say that likely the reason that you're having these issues is because of these low levels of bacteria, because you need them to process your food to help reduce inflammation in the body, to help protect your gut lining, all of those types of things so you don't have that line of defense going on in your body.

00:15:21:12 - 00:15:43:04
Esther Thomas
So we also saw that you're a bit reactive to dairy and different things like that. So food sensitivities can also be a result of low gut bacteria in the gut. So yeah so really essential for almost everything I would say it's like your second brain and the universe of your, body that makes everything function really well.

00:15:43:06 - 00:15:51:07
Dave Quak 
Can we talk about the one I forget the special name that produces serotonin and Gaba? What is that again?

00:15:51:09 - 00:16:20:12
Esther Thomas
Yeah. So there was a few different things. So some of the bacteria that's really low or non-existent in your gut, pretty much the bifidobacteria strains. You've got zero in your gut. So there's a few different ones specifically so but Bifidobacterium long and Bifidobacterium befit. Bifidobacterium breve. I always can't pronounce them. Always the best.

00:16:20:14 - 00:17:08:02
Esther Thomas
And then Bifidobacterium adolescente. So these ones are in particular the Bifidobacterium longan, is really important for producing Gaba, and also reduces cortisol, helps, balance moods and nervous system. And then the different one, helps to, reduce inflammation in the body and supports that emotional regulation. The breve one, supports gut your gut lining so that, we talked about leaky gut a little bit and, calming the immune system and then the, adolescentes one, regulates inflammation and energy metabolism as well.

00:17:08:02 - 00:17:26:12
Esther Thomas
So these low levels of those bifidobacteria strains, really equals low Gaba. And then, really poor stress tolerance can increase anxiety reactivity, mood crashes, all of those types of things. So that's one of the strains. Yeah.

00:17:26:12 - 00:17:27:02
Dave Quak 
That's just one.

00:17:27:07 - 00:17:27:20
Esther Thomas
Yeah.

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Dave Quak 
What is Gaba.

00:17:29:13 - 00:17:46:04
Esther Thomas
So Gaba is a neurotransmitter. So it's really, really important for for things like, your sleep, for regulating moods, helping you to feel good, all of those types of things. So it's a really important neurotransmitter.

00:17:46:06 - 00:17:47:10
Dave Quak 
Okay.

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Esther Thomas
Yeah.

00:17:48:08 - 00:17:55:12
Dave Quak 
And then you also mentioned serotonin in amongst all that, what does serotonin do for a man or a woman or a child for anyone.

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Esther Thomas
Yeah. Well serotonin is really like that feel good. Neurotransmitter. So most of it is produced in the gut. Some research suggests around 90%. So if you don't have any of that good bacteria that's creating serotonin, then, you're going to have low, low moods. You're going to have, anxiety, things like that, and rely on things that try to stimulate that or mimic that, as well.

00:18:23:16 - 00:18:31:18
Dave Quak 
So and that's your path wants to make the link between the gut and the brain and the body a bit more, well known. Right?

00:18:31:20 - 00:18:55:04
Esther Thomas
Absolutely. I think like the gut is the powerhouse of the body. I see it as so it's so important for almost everything. Yeah. And there's definitely a really strong link. I don't know if you've ever experienced, you know, if you've had a really bad week of eating, for example, you've eaten lots of sugar, you've had too much coffee, maybe alcohol, whatever it is in a week.

00:18:55:06 - 00:19:14:07
Esther Thomas
And then, you know, the next day or the next week, you're like, oh, why do I feel so crappy? Like, yeah, why am I low in my mood? So I have no energy and all of that. So it's really there's there's really a direct correlation between our guts and what we're putting in our guts. Yeah. We feel.

00:19:14:09 - 00:19:24:24
Dave Quak 
Yeah. You had a really good verse before about why you feel like this stuff is a gift from God. I remember when we were talking about the herbs. Did you find that fits.

00:19:25:01 - 00:19:58:05
Esther Thomas
Oh yeah. So I mean there's lots there's lots of reference to things in the Bible. But I mean, if, if you even just look at it from, we're utilizing things that God has created in nature. If he's created plants with specific nutrients in them, vegetables, fruits, they have specific things in them that we need for our bodies, what water does for our body, what even things like olive oil does with the good, oils and omegas, herbs are the same.

00:19:58:05 - 00:20:20:04
Esther Thomas
So sometimes people can be a little bit anti herbs, but I don't know how you can be anti herbs when it's something that God has created that have all these different constituents within them that bring healing to the body. They are so powerful. Yeah, like nothing else. You know, if I start to get a bit sick and I have a shot of specific herbs, some liquid herbs, it'll just knock it on the head.

00:20:20:04 - 00:20:43:16
Esther Thomas
That's so potent. They're so powerful, and they're a gift from God. So there's even that verse that talks about, it's in Psalm 104, verse 14 to 15. It says, you cause grass to grow for the livestock and plants for people to use. You allow them to produce food from the earth, wine to make them glad. Olive oil to soothe their skin, and bread to give them strength.

00:20:43:18 - 00:20:50:14
Esther Thomas
And I think that's just a beautiful picture of all of these things that God has given us in creation for our benefit.

00:20:50:16 - 00:21:05:17
Dave Quak 
Yeah, and that's pretty cool that you get to steer people towards that. Absolutely. You light up when they talk about herbs. Do you have a favorite herb or a favorite natural medicine? And why? Like if you're like, oh, I'm so glad that exists, what would it be?

00:21:05:19 - 00:21:07:07
Esther Thomas
Oh, that's a hard question, I love them.

00:21:07:08 - 00:21:09:19
Dave Quak 
Do you like them all?

00:21:09:21 - 00:21:28:06
Esther Thomas
Well, you know, echinacea is one of those things that does almost everything. So it's one that, sometimes I have students that come in here and they're preparing for their herbal exams, and I say, well, echinacea you can always put down because, you know, it'll tick the box for almost every condition. So it's an amazing, immune system, herbs.

00:21:28:06 - 00:21:51:01
Esther Thomas
So I really love that one. Yeah. There's so many good ones, you know, like tumeric, ginger, all of these ones that have anti-inflammatory properties on the on the body. We've got ones for, reducing depression and anxiety, ones for increasing, your mood. Wormwood is an amazing one, too. It's the only herb, I think, that's won a Nobel Prize.

00:21:51:03 - 00:21:52:16
Dave Quak 
The herb won the Nobel Prize?

00:21:52:17 - 00:22:03:10
Esther Thomas
Yeah, there's lots of research around it. And malaria too. So really, really, really powerful studies of of, wormwood, fighting malaria.

00:22:03:10 - 00:22:10:21
Dave Quak 
So that's cool. Yeah. With the you mentioned anxiety and depression. What sort of, herbs and natural medicines help with that?

00:22:10:23 - 00:22:30:01
Esther Thomas
Hates depending on what's going on. And so that's why, we like to do quite a detailed, consult. And sometimes people will go, oh, you know, I tried ashwagandha or I tried this, they'll just pick it up from the chemist because they've heard it's good, but not all herb is. All herbs are suitable for everybody, depending on what's going on.

00:22:30:01 - 00:22:51:15
Esther Thomas
So, if you know, your stress is kind of the driver of your anxiety or depression, then we need to address more of that stress component. You know, if there's inflammation happening that could be driving that. We need to address the inflammation more. If you've got chronic fatigue, we need to address the fatigue more. So that's why it can be so different for lots of different people.

00:22:51:15 - 00:23:15:17
Esther Thomas
But you know, you've got the classic ones like Saint John's wart. Valerian which which Valium is the pharmaceutical, version which was synthesized from valerian plant. But we love to have things in their whole form because they do they work a lot better in the body. Everything is better in its whole form. Okay.

00:23:15:19 - 00:23:27:03
Esther Thomas
And. Yeah, there's lots of others. I mean, ashwagandha, which is actually called with Fania. It's botanical name, is another powerful one. And, Yeah, there's heaps.

00:23:27:09 - 00:23:37:05
Dave Quak 
Okay. I've heard of, like, Saint John's wort and valerian stuff, but what are they before they're a tablet? Are they a root? Are they? Do they grow out of the ground? Like, like what do they look like?

00:23:37:05 - 00:23:45:12
Esther Thomas
Yeah. So the, they're all different. So sometimes we use the root, sometimes we use the leaves, sometimes it's the flower of the plant. So.

00:23:45:14 - 00:23:46:16
Dave Quak 
So it's different depending on the.

00:23:46:22 - 00:23:48:13
Esther Thomas
Different depending on the head. Yeah.

00:23:48:14 - 00:24:02:17
Dave Quak 
Cool. So circling back to the results from my gut test. Yeah. Someone who's got no good bacteria. How do we start rebuilding that in a way that's going to benefit me both physically and mentally in the long run?

00:24:02:19 - 00:24:08:10
Esther Thomas
Absolutely. Well, do you want me to touch on some of the other good bacteria as well? That was going to.

00:24:08:10 - 00:24:09:06
Dave Quak 
Go for it. That would be.

00:24:09:06 - 00:24:11:19
Esther Thomas
Also really helps to make up the picture for you.

00:24:11:19 - 00:24:13:05
Dave Quak 
Yeah. Please.

00:24:13:07 - 00:24:43:01
Esther Thomas
So we also have lactobacilli, which you probably have heard of. It's very prominent in things like yogurt. So you've also got very, very low levels of this, in your body. So, these are essential for converting tryptophan to serotonin again and keeping that inflammation in check. So you've got lactobacillus REM gnosis. Which is really important for mood regulation.

00:24:43:01 - 00:25:13:04
Esther Thomas
It's really famous for that. And also reducing anxiety. You've got Lactobacillus plantarum. So that helps reduce neuroinflammation which also can be a picture with mental health concerns. And it also helps to strengthen your gut lining. You've got Lactobacillus acidophilus which is really important for just maintaining balance within the gut and supporting your digestion.

00:25:13:06 - 00:25:48:08
Esther Thomas
And then Kasai and Del Ruki, they, both important again for reducing that brain inflammation and, potentially helping with cognition as well. So again, lie low back to Celeste's. Lactobacillus. Sorry is equals kind of low serotonin and a higher chance for gut permeability. So things like leaky gut and then can contribute to things like brain fog, poor sleep anxiety, irritation, all of those types of things.

00:25:48:08 - 00:26:16:08
Esther Thomas
So you've got low Gaba production and low serotonin production happening in your gut as well. And then just quickly to touch on two more, you have Ackerman here. And then the I don't know how to pronounce this other one. It's a very tricky one, but, these two bacteria, again, a low in your gut. So again, they are linked with brain inflammation.

00:26:16:08 - 00:26:52:15
Esther Thomas
And leaky gut. And then also, producing butyrate, which is an anti-inflammatory and key for managing chronic stress and immune balance. Again. So so you've got that increased risk of neuroinflammation, which can lead to, again, that mood instability, fatigue, immune issues, those types of things. So yeah. So basically you've got, high risk of neuroinflammation, high risk of leaky gut and then low serotonin and Gaba production happening.

00:26:52:17 - 00:27:11:14
Dave Quak 
Yeah. That's hectic. Yeah. You made a little list. You know those low mood regulation anxiety, you know, debility, brain fog, brain fog, poor sleep stress and fatigue. That is me on a Monday. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And a Tuesday. You know what I mean? Like, it's I'm not producing any of the stuff I need from naturally anyway.

00:27:11:15 - 00:27:29:16
Esther Thomas
Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. So we talked about, you know, the need for you to rebuild that so that we can actually get that production happening more effectively in your body. Yeah. And hopefully reduce some of the symptoms that you're experiencing into the future.

00:27:29:18 - 00:27:31:23
Dave Quak 
Cool. So how would we do that? How would one do that.

00:27:32:02 - 00:27:55:21
Esther Thomas
Yeah. So the good the good part of doing a gut test is that we can see the specific bacteria that's low in your gut. I don't think your, Enterococcus is is hugely essential that we go in and try and combat that as we rebuild the good bacteria of your gut. Hopefully that will start to subside as well.

00:27:55:23 - 00:28:19:06
Esther Thomas
So basically, we know the specific strains in your gut that we need to rebuild. So we're going to do that through specific strains of probiotics. And this is really good because otherwise, you know, if you're just going to the chemist and you're taking a random probiotic, you actually might be feeding, you know, bacteria that you've already got high amounts of in your gut, which could be detrimental.

00:28:19:08 - 00:28:40:15
Esther Thomas
Yeah. Rather than the specific strains that you need. So this is where gut testing can be really, really helpful. So we're going to give you some probiotics, those specific strains we talked about. And then we're going to give some prebiotics as well. So prebiotics is food to the bacteria. So the probiotics we put in our gut that's the specific bacteria.

00:28:40:19 - 00:29:01:15
Esther Thomas
And then we feed it with the prebiotics okay. So it's kind of like when you're fermenting something and you add sugar to it. It's a kind of a similar process that happens in the gut. So we need to feed that so that it can keep on growing, repopulating. And you don't want to be relying on taking probiotics, you know, into the future for the rest of your life.

00:29:01:21 - 00:29:26:18
Esther Thomas
We just want to take them for a period of time until we can rebuild that good bacteria and keep it healthy. And then ideally, we do most of that feeding through our diet. Okay. So yeah. So plant foods really, are essential for feeding that good bacteria. So that's why we try and say, you know, as naturopathy, we talk to our clients about diversifying your plant intake.

00:29:26:18 - 00:29:47:20
Esther Thomas
That means eating lots of different varieties of plants because that helps to feed different bacteria of the gut. Yeah. Okay. So for only eating the same things all the time, we're only feeding certain types of good bacteria of the gut. Yeah. So research suggests around 30 plus different plants a week is ideal for feeding that good bacteria of the gut.

00:29:47:22 - 00:29:49:14
Dave Quak 
30 different plants a week.

00:29:49:14 - 00:29:50:24
Esther Thomas
Yes. Right.

00:29:50:24 - 00:29:53:05
Dave Quak 
Yes. Okay. Let's take some planning.

00:29:53:07 - 00:30:01:11
Esther Thomas
Yes. So that can be, you know, your vegetables. Of course. Fruits. Things like your, legumes and beans and herbs and things. Oh, okay.

00:30:01:11 - 00:30:02:24
Dave Quak 
So it would catch up pretty quickly after.

00:30:03:00 - 00:30:24:04
Esther Thomas
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it'd be interesting experiment to count how many you've had in a week. Yeah. But really just aiming to diversify. Not always just going for your same five favorite veggies that you always eat. Think. Okay. Well, what which other ones could I buy when I'm at the shop? To have something different going on in my gut so I can feed different bacteria.

00:30:24:06 - 00:30:33:11
Esther Thomas
Yeah, and eating seasonally is really important for that too, because we want to get, plants in there. Freshest, freshest form. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

00:30:33:11 - 00:30:40:24
Dave Quak 
And I guess that's leaning into the creation mandate as well. Like you talking about, you know, herbs that God has made for us in season. Yes. Well then eat them in season, right?

00:30:41:00 - 00:31:00:00
Esther Thomas
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, the research on things like how much vitamin C reduces in certain foods every day after it's been picked, you know, so by the time you go and eat it thinking it's high in vitamin C, it might have almost no vitamin C in it. Yeah. So things like that. So the freshest that we can we can get things the better.

00:31:00:00 - 00:31:17:00
Esther Thomas
That's why market you know shopping at the markets can be really good too because I know like this store that I go to a lot of the time. He picks it the night before. So, you know, it's super fresh and you go and buy it. So yeah. So for you, we're going to focus more on rebuilding rather than killing anything off.

00:31:17:00 - 00:31:40:17
Esther Thomas
We're going to rebuild that good bacteria off the gut. And also to reduce any inflammation that might be happening and focus on a little bit of healing of the gut lining, because you had a lot of things that were pointing towards potential leaky gut happening. And I know some of the symptoms you've told me as well, also look a bit like a leaky gut picture.

00:31:40:19 - 00:32:01:16
Esther Thomas
And also one of the bacteria that we saw in your gut that was super low, is important for processing dairy. So that's really interesting as well that your body, doesn't really like dairy very much. So I'm keen to see if you start to be able to tolerate dairy a little bit better. Yes. We rebuild that bacteria off the gut.

00:32:01:22 - 00:32:09:09
Dave Quak 
That'd be cool. Yeah. And with the inflammation. So on the first week you took some blood and we looked at it and you could tell from my blood that there was inflammation.

00:32:09:09 - 00:32:10:11
Esther Thomas
Yeah.

00:32:10:13 - 00:32:17:21
Dave Quak 
What is the hope that in a year from now, if we did that again. Yeah, it would be gone by then. By doing this sort of process.

00:32:17:23 - 00:32:41:13
Esther Thomas
That that would be ideal. Yeah. At least very, very much reduced. Yeah. And it's one of those things I think almost every person has inflammation going on. Yeah. Like things like stress can, can cause inflammation in the body. So yeah, it's sometimes hard to, make it so that there's no inflammation happening. But we definitely want to reduce that inflammation as much as possible.

00:32:41:15 - 00:32:50:01
Esther Thomas
And even again, you know, if we did this test in a year's time to see what's going on, how's the bacteria looking? Yeah. Yeah.

00:32:50:03 - 00:33:16:11
Dave Quak 
It's fascinating because I've never really understood how prebiotics and probiotics work until you just explained it. Yeah. All I've ever thought is every now and then, these little yogurt looking things turn up in our fridge, and the kids drink them because just buys them. And then, oh, okay, everyone's had their prebiotics or probiotics or whatever. Yes, but this makes more sense that it's like a fermenting kind of thing that you put in there and feed and then get like a, what's that thing that you make, kombucha out of, like a scurvy?

00:33:16:11 - 00:33:17:19
Dave Quak 
Like one of those things growing?

00:33:17:22 - 00:33:41:14
Esther Thomas
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, you got to like that. Yeah. Making kombucha or salad or bread. It's it's. Yeah. Venting. And we need to give it the right things in order for it to flourish. So. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, almost every person that I see in clinic has something going on with their gut. Yeah. Whether it's, you know, pain, whether it's constipation, diarrhea, bloating, whatever it is, most people don't have ideal guts.

00:33:41:16 - 00:34:05:19
Esther Thomas
And a lot of this is obviously to do with our modern day diet when we're not eating good home cooked meals like once was, you know, the norm. Everyone would eat their home cooked meals, a lot of us eating takeout or going for refined carbs or things like that. So, yeah. So there's, I mean, a lot of different aspects to it, but yeah, we really need to be doing as much as we can to support our gut.

00:34:05:19 - 00:34:14:05
Esther Thomas
So just think about your gut as the powerhouse of the body. Yeah, we want to keep it happy so that you can have longevity and health into the future.

00:34:14:07 - 00:34:21:13
Dave Quak 
All right. So what should I do from here? Easter. Like, what should someone like me or me myself do?

00:34:21:15 - 00:34:52:15
Esther Thomas
Yeah. So I definitely think sticking to the plan is going to be key for you. And consistency of the things that, that I recommend. So like we talked about the probiotics, the prebiotics, healing the gut, inflammation as well. And we're just going to give you a little bit of nervous system support as well. In the meantime, as we're starting to rebuild some of these feel good neurotransmitters in your body, we want to make sure that throughout that process that you're doing well, that you're doing okay.

00:34:52:17 - 00:35:17:08
Esther Thomas
And that's why we like to keep checking in, have kind of regular updates to be like, okay, how are things going for you? We don't just say, chuckle this to you and leave you to do it. Yeah. We like to journey with you so that we can make sure we're on the right track as well. So hopefully for you then you'll start to notice some really positive changes in your mental health as well as in your gut.

00:35:17:10 - 00:35:23:22
Dave Quak 
I like that and I think you mentioned an important word, you know, trekking with people, going on the journey with people. You found that to be the most effective.

00:35:24:00 - 00:35:46:16
Esther Thomas
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, sometimes people come in and you never see them again. Yeah. Sometimes people aren't ready, to start that journey. But if, you know, consistency really is the key in healing, because if you just say, you know, you take your probiotics once a week or you do this or you're a bit sporadic with it, it's going to be very hard to really heal and replenish what's going on.

00:35:46:16 - 00:36:07:18
Esther Thomas
So it's going to be a long, drawn out process. Whereas if you stick to the plan and consistency with that, then we can start to get results a lot quicker. And yeah. So I know that can sometimes be tricky in busy lives. And sometimes when our brains are a little bit all over the place, but consistency really is the key.

00:36:07:23 - 00:36:08:19
Esther Thomas
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:36:08:20 - 00:36:17:03
Dave Quak 
No. Awesome. And then for anyone who wants to jump on board or at least give you a call or get in contact with you to see what the process is like.

00:36:17:08 - 00:36:39:15
Esther Thomas
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, we've talked a lot about gut and mental health today. So definitely that's something we support, but we also support, we open our doors to anyone with anything. So, you know, we support a lot of people with, their hormones as well. You know, menopause, menstrual issues. We stress obviously is a really big one.

00:36:39:15 - 00:37:08:19
Esther Thomas
Sleep, all of those types of things and also more chronic health conditions as well. Yeah. So if you're having something going on and you're not really getting answers or support or getting to the bottom of it, then I highly recommend that, you see an empath or come and see us, either impersonal online again, like I said, we do telehealth appointments all around the world so you can find out more about how to get in contact with us and booking online, on our website.

00:37:08:19 - 00:37:22:15
Esther Thomas
So it's just only a health, which is only a health accommodate you. And yeah, if you have any questions as well, we're always here. So you can send us an email and we can point you in the right direction.

00:37:22:17 - 00:37:38:21
Dave Quak 
Awesome. As it has been so nice having a chat. I feel like I could stay here for hours just figuring all this stuff out. And I wish I had had done it at, you know, 24 instead of 44. Yeah, but okay. Better than late than never. You never know, right? Maybe we'll do like another update in a year.

00:37:39:00 - 00:37:47:22
Dave Quak 
And yeah, I'll have some of those good bacterias. Absolutely non-negotiable. I'm going to go for eight. I'm going to have eight of them by then instead of zero of them.

00:37:47:22 - 00:37:48:17
Esther Thomas
Absolutely.

00:37:48:17 - 00:37:49:03
Dave Quak 
Yeah. Come on.

00:37:49:03 - 00:37:49:22
Esther Thomas
Yes.

00:37:49:24 - 00:37:53:20
Dave Quak 
No. Thank you. So do you mind praying for us as we wind up tonight? Yeah.

00:37:53:21 - 00:37:54:24
Esther Thomas
Cool. It's my pleasure.

00:37:55:00 - 00:37:56:04
Dave Quak 
Thank you.

00:37:56:06 - 00:38:24:02
Esther Thomas
God, we just want to thank you for, what you are doing in Dave and through Dave through this podcast. Lord, I just want to pray a blessing upon him and everyone that's listening to this podcast. God, I just ask that you holy Spirit, would be so present, that you would bring healing. Lord, we we thank you, God, that you've given us so much in your creation to be able to utilize Lord, you are such a loving God that you have given us all of these things.

00:38:24:04 - 00:38:47:22
Esther Thomas
Lord, would you help us to be able to look after our bodies? Well, to make good choices and, to honor this temple that you've given us? Lord, Lord, I also want to thank you, Lord, that you are our healer. Lord, in you is everything that we need. So, Lord, we can draw from your creation, Lord. But we can also just rest in this fact that, Lord, you are everything.

00:38:48:02 - 00:39:10:08
Esther Thomas
You are everything to us. And so, Lord, we just thank you. Lord, I speak healing over Dave and everyone that's listening to this podcast. Lord, I just pray that your hand would be upon them, Lord, that you would bring direction and guidance. And if there's, anything that you would want any of us to do, Lord, that you would show us that, that you would open the right doors for us to walk through.

00:39:10:08 - 00:39:18:18
Esther Thomas
Lord, we just love you and we just pray a blessing upon Dave and this podcast and everyone that's listening. In Jesus name, Amen.

00:39:18:23 - 00:39:19:18
Dave Quak 
Amen.