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I'm a little disappointed, but that's okay. I'm in studio with a wonderful guest, But that's okay. That's okay. I'm not disappointed anymore because I'm looking to my right and I have a wonderful, amazing guest host today with me. It is Sadie Murray. Ladies and gentlemen, so happy to be here. No, we're very happy to have you here. Sadie. You have been on the podcast before, but you were not in studio. No, I was calling from home because I had a pin nerve And how did you get

that pinchon nerve? You know, I'm really committed to my downward dog, and I was in a hot yoga and I let I let my ego take over. They say, don't do that in yoga, but the girl next to me was really flexible and I was like me too, And you thought you could get even more down with the downward dog. The next thing you know, I'm like laying flat on the ground and can't move and needed some heavy medication to feel better. So called in Right after I took that medication. Talk to you guys. You

sounded very so. I don't know we could go back and listen. Well, maybe I'll go back and listen now, just to see. I don't think blurs. But you know, I think you were fine, liking and never hurt anybody before doing an on air podcast. You were just fine. You said nothing but horrible things about everybody. Um but Sadie. So you are. You were formerly on the Bachelor, Yes, and you were on the season with Prince what was his name, Lorenzo Borghazy. Lauren Zo Borghazy. It sounds like

a pasta dish, right it does? Do you want the noodles better? Pasta is better? So if you're if you had a bowl of Lorenzo Borghaze or a bowl of pasta Alfredo in front of you. You're going with the Alfredo, going with my man fred on that. I don't blame me there so, but you were runner up. I was, Oh my gosh, I was so confident walking into that Roads Final Road ceremony. I wore a white dress, Jared like, I was like, you ready to go, Like, let's do

the wedding. Now, you get on one knee and as soon as you get up, Chris Harrison will walk in. He officiants. Both you will walk out a married couple and live happily ever after as Prince and Princess. Lorenzo Bagardian same differences, okay. Um. Also, you were not towardsly known because you were one of the first people to ever admit that they were a virgin on the show.

That was major back then. By oh yeah. And also didn't realize that it would become such a thing because I mean, it's obviously so much You're so much more than just a virgin. And when you go on that show and you know, I just then it became a drinking game for people watching after. So that was good. What drinking game? Like every time every time I said I'm saving myself a marriage. Like people be like, yeah, yes, take a shot. Um, where do you mind if we

ask about it? I'm kind of curious. I mean, I'm not still a virgin, and no, I'm not saying And there's a new season of the Bachelorette where Sadie finally becomes sexually act as. Sadie goes directly into the fantasy suites sort of like Hannah like that, Yeah, jumping right in, jumping into those windmills. You go from the windmill to four dudes in the face your golden yep. Well, I'm curious. Did you say on TV that you're saving self from marriage?

I did, but I think I was. I was. I grew up really um Christian and spiritual, and I think like in my world that that wasn't abnormal to say, so I just brought my real self to the show. Little did I know that that would get picked up on so much and it would become such a thing. Um And of course, like everybody has to make the decision that they want for themselves. I mean, it's not but it definitely it affected me after the show, I

was weird. It was both ways to like, oh, good for her, Like I had like people from churches, Like I had people like a pastor stop me and be like, you're such a great example for all the young women of America. And I was like, what this pressure? And then I had people being like she's a liar, She's probably a slut. And it was like, but I'm not, like what if I want to be like, let me live.

But I did it to myself. And I always say, no one forces you to say anything on these shows, so you're responsible for the words coming out of your mouth. And you know, I almost wish, I mean, looking back, I almost wish that hadn't been part of it. But it is what it is. We can't do anything now and hopefully you know, but like you said, it was you, it was me. It was me at the time, and

maybe not then Maybe I don't know. Maybe I'll go back and then and say I'm glad I did I just I guess I wish the edit was different because I don't feel like a lot of my personality came through like it was just like I'm the virgin. I feel like everything makes sense. Yeah, especially with the Bachelor Bachelorette, because there's so much camera time that needs to go

around that you truly are a character. You know, they can only show one facet of your personality because like every villain who comes off this show says they didn't show anything, and it's like, well, you're just you're a character. At this point. You know, they're only going to show the bad parts of you if you're going to be villainized, where if you're gonna be perceived at this prince charming, then they're only going to show the good parts because

that's your character. And so everybody's more than lose it off camera exactly, just like if you're villainized, they're not going to show this wonderful, amazing moment that you have on the show grating everyone's hair exactly. That's why Paradise, everybody, i think, gets a little bit more air time of who they actually are as a person because it's just the cast. There is no lead that you have to keep going back to with storylines with different other people.

It's just like everybody on this beach together and they get to show your funny parts and your dramatic parts, and you're happy parts and you're you know, sad, it's less crafted, you know, and you're not you're probably just like relieved to not be on The Bachelor out or The Bachelor anymore. And you're like, oh, this is vacation, you know I can just relax. Yeah, I wouldn't say

it's vacation a little bit more stressful. In any vacation I've been on, I prefer it turned out no fantastically outside. I've never changed the world, change of thing. Um. But so, Sadie, so ever since The Bachelor, you've been doing so much on air stuff and hosting and and keep us what are you doing now? It's been so fun. So I'm on um, you know CBS l A all the time, and I love doing my monthly segment. They're giving tips and tricks on style and beauty and traveling essentials. And

then of course, my my favorite show is Extra. I love love Extra, Extra, Extra Big Mario Lopez girl. Of course, come on. Everybody at the show is amazing, though, every single person. Yeah yeah, oh yeah, they're great. Extra is awesome. I've met uh Mario a couple of times. He's awesome. Um, and like you said, the entire staff, there's a soon. Everybody's really amazing. It feels like home. It feels good. Yes, yeah,

definitely does feel like home. And it's pretty cool that they film rate at the Universal location, so you go there and that marks right behind you. It's very it's a very epic on stage, which is pretty cool. Definitely. Um, but Sadie you're here. Did you listen to our last podcast? I did. It's been a little while. We need to talk about Tori. The date non date, the date non date, the Tori went on maybe didn't go on because it could have Maybe it was a day, maybe it wasn't day.

You know, we just need a little bit of closure. I think Tory and you know what, it's fantastic about this moment right now, Sadie, we have Tori in studio. Tori as ever with her long locks. You're like Rapunzel. Thank you, Tory. Ashley and I always say how you were just like one of the most beautiful people we've ever met, like we have were we both crush on you. It's pretty funny. You do a sort of mutual though.

What a good vibe vibe about you. Can we record this and send this to the guy that I may or may not have gone on a date with. Screw this up again? Did he screw it up? Again, should we recap a little, Yeah, Tory, give a quick recap of what happened in case anybody, which we all know everybody listened to the last podcast, but just a quick

recap of what happened. So I went in asking if splitting a tab was me or me offering to pay with stiff arming him, and I turned into a whole Dean doesn't think this was even a date because he showed up wearing athletic wear nikes and then we end up splitting the tab. He was like, this is just a friend hangout. Jared Vanessa both think that it is a date and that he just split the tab and just wasn't thinking and didn't have the most swap moves. But then you did so many loops around habit Henny.

I was sweating to extend the date. Yeah, so we I tried to with non date, kind of close it. After the dinner ecs, I was like, or the lunch and I was like, I don't really know what's going on. So I was like, you might hop on the freeway traffic, and then he was like, no, let's keep going, Let's keep going. I was throwing out things and like I'm just trying to press you whatever, and then he texted you after. Then he texted me after saying he had a great time. He's going to Idaho. He'll text when

he get back after like that night. Okay, this was totally a date. I don't understand how anybody not a date. It's not a date. It's not a date. It's not a date. It's not a date because one I agree with the outfit, like such little effort after three years, even being an athlete, I don't care, just because do you know how many good looking, well all dressed athletes are. I mean that's like saying like I don't even know. That is not an excuse. And also like basketball shorts.

Come on. As a guy, I can confidently say that we as men are dumb and we do dumb stuff, and we might go on a date under dressing. Because here's the thing. As a guy, our ego gets the best of us, and sometimes we will put effort into showcasing that we're not putting effort into something. Those our guys, Tori. But I'm not saying this guy did it, But I am kind of saying I think this guy didn't, like maybe he was under compensation. Yeah, to like show confidence whatever,

Like yeah, no, this is cool, it's fun. You know that I wear shorts and it doesn't matter. I mean unless you're doing like a game of pickup or like horse at the bathroom. I mean, this guy could have been playing a game a pickup. If we need more sound effects in our life Easton, Yes, so yeah. He followed up being like, Hey, had a great time. I'll let you know when I get back. Why can't he text you? Well, he's in Idaho? Does his phone network there Ida? Who is no service in Idaho anywhere you go?

But you know what, it is kind of hard doing the whole texting for a really long time until the next time you meet up. Yeah, but I mean, and an article, a funny meme like keep it a little bit along. I love guys send me articles like did you see I'm a dork though a full blown door? What type of articles do you get sent to you? I actually I actually drunk and texted an X and

sent him um an article on the blue lobster. Did you guys see that the blue lobster that got I don't want to get bogged down in the minutia of the blue lobster right now. But I can under I'm getting a glimpse into your dating life, Sadie. I like date line six. I like I'm a door. Like I read the New York Times on Sunday and that is my favorite thing to do with coffee, and like, I love it. And I also like being informed. What's wrong with that? So you want this guy to send Tories

some sort of cnox. I don't know what Tories into, but I know that I would love a CNN article. I would love to know about you know, what he thinks on the Mueller Report. I mean, maybe this is we need you on the podcast more often. This is amazing stuff, all right, So okay, let's get back to Oh yeah. So then he texts me like, hey, I'm back in town. How are you have you been? Like what did I miss? So we're like chatting for a bit and how long was he gone? Like five days? Okay,

So I got really sick this last weekend. So but then I had to like I had a lot of prior prior plans that I had to get done. Um and so I was like, oh yeah, I'm sick. He's like, oh my gosh, Like, don't want to bring you tea. Yeah, okay, I'm still is it a date or not? We still know this isn't a date, but this is just a nice jes yeah, um and bring you to know. So, I had a good and I was driving to some in California for like a birthday party I was going to.

So I was just like, oh, that's so sweet of you know, and he was like, hey, here's everything you need to take, Like, here's what you should be getting, Like go to CVS, grab all these things and like this thing hydrate to like double as fast. I go get this packet and like, I hope you feel better. And then we like chatted for a bit and then so do you think that that changes if it was a date or not? To see how much he actually

cares about Tory. Now, he could just care about you as a friend, but I also think that he's really trying to impress you. I feel like this. I feel like he himself was not sure if it was going to be a date or not, and I think he was maybe wanting to feel it out first, which is maybe the reason why he was wearing basketball short. Isn't that a date? Though? Isn't that the definition of a date when you feel it out, Like that's the whole

point of a first day, you feeling thanks. They've had such a weird history, the drunken face times and also meeting at stagecoach. I mean, that's like meeting someone in Vegas. What is that even going to be? But for me, that makes it even more of a date because of the history right where you're finally making plans to hang

out one on one. I mean then I just don't see how it hang out so like anti climactic though, because it's like after three years, then we stroll on Abbot Kenny with my basketball shorts and then I make you pay for my latte. A date doesn't have to be climactic. I don't know what I think we want our dates to be pretty climactic. Um, so you were sick, he was cute, offered you and told you to go get some you know night, Like, okay, it's like your first time being sick. But sure, um and now what

so now? I mean I haven't I haven't really talked him about like two days, okay, so I don't know he's in he's up now, Honestly, I don't know. Okay, but God, I hope so. And here's the thing, it's not even like he wasn't a bad date. He wasn't anything. It just completely threw me for a loop on being like, okay, from now on, when people ask you to hang out.

For me, I used dating very loosely. I'm like, oh, we're just getting to know each other, like you could be dating ten people, because it just means, oh, you're just going on dates with them and getting to know them. So I feel like when somebody says, hey, I would love to spend time with you and get to know you,

it's a date. I agree. So for me, it threw me for a loop when I offered to pay, I honestly like my card went through when I was shocked because I was like so not ready to pay, you know, because it was like we were having a great time. It was great. And then maybe he maybe he wasn't raised right, because I think that the guy would have that absolutely not. I don't want to throw this guy's

parents under the bus over here. Hey, I don't know, I'm not gonna ever let my son walk out and going on dating basketball SHOT's but anyway, I I just don't I think it was just two friends hanging out after a while and maybe there would be something there. And I don't feel like that that's a date. I

feel I really don't hold on. Why don't? But I think what we're getting down to is the definition of the date, because what you exactly said before, you said I don't think it was a date, like getting to know you. I agree with you, right, that's a date to me. But to me, when he allowed her to pay, that is when it became more of a friend, because especially the first time, especially the first, your first date,

you want to give the best impression ever. You want her to walk away feeling wow, I can't wait to do that again. That was so much fun. The last thing a guy who's really interested in a girl wants the girl to think is gosh, what was that? Do I need to text him? I'm confused? That was weird? Huh? And like that's guys when they want something, they want something, they make it so clear. I don't think. I. I think you're thinking of a guy that you want to see,

not how guys actually operates. Sed Maybe I'm manifesting right here in the studio. Maybe he'll just walk through the door. I think that you have to realize that in this day and age, guys don't go after what they want. I don't. I think a massive I think a massive majority of them don't. I think guys are far more vulnerable than they have been in any type at any point in society before. And I think guys are afraid

to show their vulnerability. And one way that guys shy away from showing vulnerability is going after what they want. Because if they go after what they want and failed, then they failed. But if they go to something, not something that they don't want, but show that hey, no, I'm I'm totally cool, I'm I'm aloof to this whole thing too, don't even worry about it, then there's really no letdown because in his head, he never really it for it. That makes sense, even though in his head

I still think that he thought it was a date. Well, I don't know, I could be wrong. I over analyze a lot of things. I do too. I completely understand. I also, I just I feel though, like if he wanted it to be a date, you would have known, and the fact that you're we're talking about it on a podcast, but then he texted you afterwards, and then and then he texted you when he got back from Idaho. Do you like he's showing interest. Yeah, But here's my

my question. Let's let's talk endgame. Let's bring this all the way down to let's to this thing. Let's bring this down the field. Okay. How long is he in town as he moved as he moved here permanently or is he leaving He's leaving end of July. Okay, So this is a temporary thing and he wants something casual. Okay. That does change the game a little bit. And he's he's sussing it out, he's feeling it out, he's trying to see Okay, will she sleep with me? Will she not?

Do I need to buy her a lot day? I don't know. So he's feeling you out, he's keeping it casual. Where's he going at the end of like far away? I don't back Cleveland? Okay, that's right, Oh my god, that's right. Professional. Yeah, and he's not paying for you. I would be wanting bachelor dates from this guy. Well he was while he's in down you know what I mean? Like, sure, what I guess. The main thing I would want to know is like, should I stop offering to pay. Is

that about? Because I offered to pay on a date that I had that following Friday, and he was like, absolutely not, I asked you to be here, But I still offered because I still want to be kind, But like, what's the etiquette on that? Because I want to be kind as a girl and not expecting that. But at the same time, I don't want to be friend zoning

or stiff farming. I'm a firm believer letting the guy pick up the tab for dinner, thank you so much, but doing the doing the gesture where we really reached for a long time for a person we just can't find our wallet for minute, and then he pays, and then you do, Hey, want to grab a drink somewhere? I'd love to buy you a drink after Like that's my move. Well, you know. The great thing about Etiquette, at least today is that we have a professional at

etiquette coming onto the podcast later on. Her name is Micah Meyer. She's the founder and director of an etiquette online class, and she's coming right up. But first we're gonna take a little break. We have a very special guest on the phone line calling in right now. The founder and director of how do we beaumont Beaumont etiquette. I'm terrible at pronouncing any word. Really. We have Michael Meyer on the line, Mica, thank you so much for joining us. Hi, thank you so much for having me.

I love what you're doing is amazing. Oh well, thank you. You know, we're just trying to help the masses and not sucking at dating too much anymore. Now, Mica, you're working with Venmo right now on an electronic app etiquette. What does that mean? Well, I mean, really, when you

think about it, think about every kind of communication. We really now have um is on our phones for the most part, so there's never been rules you know before about you know, what to do what not to do, And all of these conversations started coming up about like what what you know with venmo? Right, everybody everybody uses Venmo, So it's one of those things for what is the actual like what should we do? What are the you know, how long do I have to pay someone back? What

if someone doesn't pay me back? All these different questions are coming up, and so Venmo kind of asked user community what they thought of kind of the hottest topics, needing being one of them, and um we kind of created a roadmap, if you will, of kind of the

dues and don't of of venmo etiquette. I'm curious, so if if say, guy and a girl go on a date, guy pays for the date, does the girl feel any pressure to send a venmo or excuse me, should the guys have feel any pressure to send a Venmo request? Is that a thing like? Well, it is such a big thing. Is that like an unspoken thing? Should it be spoken at the date? Well? Yeah, So this is one of the hottest topics right now, and it is

really what I always advised. Um in the venmo community kind of said this, and I completely agree that there shouldn't be any surprises with dating. So, for instance, if you are going to a concert, or you're going into dinner whatever it is, and you intend to ask somebody to chip in for that meal, then it's it's telling them ahead of times, Hey, the concert tickets are twenty five dollars. Do you want to go on Saturday night?

Not just after the concert sending a Venmo request? Um, So, it's the elimination of the prizes that I think is the big thing there. A surprise Venmo requires is ever wanted no, it's have you ever been friend requested on venmo by somebody? You just have no idea who the hell they are. I get that all the time, and I'm curious why people are trying to friend request me on venmo. You're going toge social media. This is going to blow your mind. So people are actually using venmo

as a social app, so they want to know. So maybe they've heard the podcast they you know, whatever it is. Maybe it's the friend of a friend, so people. Look, people are checking the app, but three times a week, not even to pay with the extender with the money, to see what people are doing in their social fee. The emojis, yeah you have funny you know, request or payment and put some like fun emojis. Somebody can see that and be like, oh, who's this fun guy and

then request you. So people are using it as a social app as well, just another way to make someone jealous. Obviously that's the only point of venmo. I'm curious, Micah. Now, what are your thoughts about who should pay on a first date, or if a guy and a girl should split, or even a guy and a guy, a girl and a girl. What is the etiquette of a first date? And who pays even outside of Venmo today. Sure, sure, and so this is we teach the dating etiquette. Um.

Of course at the Pado Hotel. You must come with during the neighborhood ever, please, it's so fun, um, but we with this. This question is probably the number one question we get, and I advise I teach very gender neutral e generally speaking. And I truly believe it has less to do with um anything else except for who invited the other person out, and whoever, whoever the person was that invited the other person out, chose the restaurant,

you know, chose if their budget, they should pay. I truly believe that, and that worked with all same you know, same gender um dating. It doesn't even matter whoever is the inviter is the person I believe that should pay. So even if a girl asks a guy out, like let's grab a drink sometime, this place is in my neighborhood, like let's go to you know, let's go to the Beverly Hills Hotel. Let's go to the Beverly Hills Hotel. So for example, Mica say, hypothetically, Sadie asked me out

on a date. Now I'm gonna gage man so that can happen. But hypothetically, Sadie asked me out, we go out to where you want to go, Sadie, I would like to go to the polo lounge. I mean on a roll, let's do it. So we're gonna go to the polo lounge. Shady chooses we go on the first date. We are both mutually interested in each other, though we've both been flirting showing signs. We go to the polo lounge. The check comes. You're saying Sadie should pay the bill.

I say that Sadie should be prepared to pay the bill. Now, I don't know he decides. You know, the guy in the relationship in this case, hypothetically, do you say, you know what, thank you so much. That's so kind of you. I would love to treat you this time. Then Sadie, who is prepared to pay um, would just say thank you, that's so kind, and then so kind than otherwise I would just venmo request you yes. Right. So I think the person who invites chooses if their budget they should

go in expecting to pay. Now the other person says no, really like this is I would really love to treat you. Thank you so much, that it's so kind, like whatever it is, that's all of my things so kind. But if that's the case, then Sadie says, thank you, she should go into it. She shouldn't be picking the most expensive place and then expecting someone else to pay for it. Just keep that in mind, Sadie. As for the record,

I I do like to pick up the tab. I'd like to do the Slie move where like I'm I'm gonna go use the restroom, yes, and then I end up like it's taking care. But I'm more been every once in a while girl, because I've been the person in the relationship who pays for a lot of things and it's not a good feeling though, So I think once you're in a relationship, you should be aware that you need to pay even right. I think in dating, I don't know. Maybe I'm just more traditional, like I don't.

I think we all are. I don't. Yeah, I think there's I think you're right. I think there's just friends on your dating style. Um, and if you massed up with somebody who's not the same dating stilesy, it's not going to work. So you you also need to find somebody who's more traditional in that way then, um, but

with modern dating that's kind of the the thing. And I also say, if somebody, say, you know, two people go on a date and somebody goes and picks up the bill, I or like kind of takes the bill across the table and still you know, if it's an obvious gesture for one thing, but if it's kind of like sits there, you shouldn't expect that other person is

going to pay. I would always take out my wallet and then let them say, oh no, like you know, you know, my treat or it happened to me once where that didn't happen and I had not two pennies to my name and the man wasn't picking up the bill. So then I took out my credit card and took the bill and goes, oh, that's so nice to you, thank you so much. My god. I wasn't even sure if my credit card was going to go through Old in Manhattan. I had no idea who was even paying

those credit card. Um, and by miracle went through. But you know, so he has to be prepaired. But I'm sure that was like the longest three minutes of your life. For when the servit took the credit card. Oh that's amazing. What a great story though, And I never saw him again, of course not. You know, the guy wanted a free dinner. What can you say? Remember that one guy that did that on all the dating apps, like he would just go and then like leave the bill, like you really

the date dash or dining dash remember in California. Yeah, it happened in Yeah. Now. The other thing we care of out of just the past couple of weeks with this discussion is people who go on a date and the person offers, can I, you know, chip in for these drinks and then the other person says no, And after the date, you know that the person who paid follows up and says, we'd love to take you out again.

The person the other person says, you know, I just didn't feel any chemistry, but thank you for you know, last night, it was really nice of you. And then they get the Venmo request. Yes, we've heard this a few times too, so you can deny vemo request, right, Yes,

you don't have to pay Venmo request. You definitely don't have to, especially if you've already you've already offered to pay, and then and then you didn't, you know, that's that's that's that's the wild one, and there's the the It was really funny that there's the survey that Vemo did with like omnis exact topics, and it was the overall kind of like the biggest percentage was it was a sixty six percent of families survey did not think it was appropriate to take someone a date and then Venmo

request them for half to go afterwards, regardless of the situation. So I feel like most Venmo users are with us on that one totally. If you pick up the check, do not send a Venmo request the next day for half the bill, because I'll say, if I was the person receiving that Venom request, I would decline it. And that's the virtual way of telling someone to go straight to hell. You get out of my first and you get a little bit even take a screenshot and post

it and be like wow, what it did? I know, Well, that's a lot of that as people like having discussed in points on board Canna read it about kind of those exact screen grabs just really happened, Like what would you all do? And everyone kind of like chiming in. Now I am old fashioned, where I do think that guys should pick up the bill. I know it's twenty nineteen, but what can I say? It's the person I am.

But I will say from a guy going with my experience going on dates, I always appreciated the girl going for the reach, you know, the reach of hey, no, I'll split this, and it gives me even a little bit more pride as a man to say no, no, no, yeah I got it. You know, it's hard though, because when you're sitting in high bar stools and your purse is kind of on the ground and it's a really long that's but that's the effort you put in, and as a guy, appreciate that. Yeah, no, I I agree.

My dad always probably that from a really young age. You always offer. You always offer, because it comes off as expectant. It's like it's like the girl that goes on a date and orders the lobster. It's the same kind of like did she really just like conspective, it's opportunistic, it's you know, it's like, those are two things that I think are really key for dating. Um. So, I also wanted to ask about friend zoning someone. Uh do you think if you ah, is it friend zoning someone?

When you offer to pay. I don't think so, because I think that person is just trying to show that, you know, they can take their own you know, they can pay for their own drink. I think if I want to date tonight, then I and I would offer. I would always reach an offer, and um, and I don't think that means I'm not interested. It just shows that I'm not expecting. I think that's that's it. And I always teaching with etiquette, it's just about respect. That's

all it really is. This showing respect to the other person. I agree, but I feel like some guys take that as they're putting the friend zone. If a girl does pay for herself instead of letting him pay for her could and if they do, then then you know, if that is and you know, she feels that vibe right away, and then she should make that clear and they thank you so much. I've loved this, I would love to see you again, like and then maybe she takes the

initiative to say something. If she feels instantly that that's his reaction, then then she you know, there are things that she can do or say that will, you know, kind of change the way that maybe she came off, it's hard to be a strong independent woman that also wants to be taken care of too, do you know what I mean? Like traditionally, like it's almost like what

are we supposed to do? Because I mean I was brought up thinking that, I mean, the guy really pays for mostly everything, like especially when you're first dating, Like if he's like asking me out, he's going to pay. But like at what point then do I look like I'm rude because I'm not at all paying for anything? Right? I mean, I think you know what I what I did with my now husband. I the first three or

four days, he paid for everything. And then I then sent him a message like I would love to take you here my treat and it was like a very established you know, this is my thing. And then we went to this outdoor concert it was like a symphony under the Star thing in Central Park, and who I bought like because I knew he wouldn't I knew he wouldn't let me pay for a restaurant or anything like that. So I bought, you know, the wine and the cheese and me like that. It was like more than I

genuinely wanted to treat him. Um, but otherwise, you know. So I think you've got to choose something your but didn't try your best to show gratitude and if they don't want you to pay, then just show gratitude. I think, just thank you. It's really um, you know, thank you so much. I think this is an interesting stat that I saw. It says more than half of Venmo users between the ages of eighteen and twenty four prefer to request separate tricks so as to avoid paying for other

people's extras. I think that shows kind of the society we're living in today. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying people want to pay for themselves. Now. You think it's compressing, and I do. I think that's so depressing. And I think that's why as a woman who is single, it's so confusing. It's so confusing. Oh, we've never lived in a more confusing time, my friend. Yeah, I think. I mean, I think I see that a lot. You know, even out in New York. It's like in

l A. It's the same thing. It's a very everyone's beating out, everyone's dining out, and we see that a lot. And it's the only thing I would say is that with them. Uh, And you know it's kind of taking out the awkwardness a little bit in other ways of talking about money instead of you know, everybody's had a situation where you did just go out as friends or you did just go you know, and then someone would you and it was like an awkward thing to follow

up and now it's just you get a little as reminder. Um. But you know, with dating, I think I would say I would advise always just to go into it, you know, thinking that you might be paying. Um. And if you know, at the end of the night somebody does pay or offer let you let you pay when you didn't expect to that, then you know that person is not for you. M interesting. Uh, Michael, I just had a couple dating etiquette questions that I was curious about. What time should

you arrive for a date a first date? Should you arrive on time, five minutes early, ten minutes early, should you arrive five minutes late to try to you know, not make it seem like your chill, so to invite that person gets there right on time because you want to be if you so five play in the restaurant and I get there on time, or even a couple of minutes early, so you get there before the date.

If you're the person that was invited, then I would show up about five minutes after the the arrival time coming. I like to do that. I like to make an entrance. Ye have your moment if I'm invited out. Yeah, you always want to walk in about five minutes late. Now, because five minutes late is perfect. If you walk in twenty minutes late, you're rude. Exactly exactly minutes, just like a tiny little bit after that, so you don't have the awkward moment where you both get out of your

ubers at the same time. If you make your entrance and but five minutes and I think much more than that is could be even considered it rude. If you're saying you are running fifteen minutes, you're stuck in light traffic, whatever it is. My kind of rule is for every minute you think you're going to be late, you give two minutes notice. So just attacks if you think you're gonna be ten minutes late, fifteen minutes late, then you know, try to give that person as much notice as possible.

Interesting that seems fair. Yeah, I like that. I also really like it when the guy is there like ten minutes early, and says I always snagged a spot like in the corner. Like that even makes me were excited for it because I'm like, oh wow, he's into it. Yeah, no, I agree. I think my old boss once told me

five minutes early is on time. And I think as a guy, if you're asking a girl on a day or any if you're asking another guy on a date, you should be there five minutes early, because, like you said, it shows that you care and it starts the date off on a positive note to exactly as the guy like hypothetically say, if I ask you out and you get there first and you're on time and I'm five minutes late, already starts the date off on a negative way where you feel like I'm not into it, I'm

showing up late. Yeah, and then and then nothing can actually happen. I actually talked about this with a guy I was on a first date with because there was a girl sitting at the bar waiting for somebody, and I said, I will never be that girl. If I realize that you're not there or you let me know that you're running late, I am doing laps in my uber. I am not going to be sitting there way yeah, exactly.

And also one thing, if say, your date is late, but they've let you know, listen, I'm stuck in traffic whatever it is they're coming, they've let you know, which is a light thing to do. Sometimes you can't help it. Then if your job, if you're the one waiting, say on the girl or guy that's on their way that's late. When they arrive, then just if you do really like them, don't make them feel bad about it. I think it's

a good etiquette in that moment um. It's that etiquette to point out that it aqua I would waiting exactly. So exactly you say, can I order you a drink? So you have one? A fresh costs so waiting when you get here, and then when they arrived, they honestly no worries. Please relax, here's your martini. You look fantastic. Um, please just relax and joy, you know, so you take off the awkwardness of them. So, Michael, what time should you arrive for a party? Say, like somebody says I'm

having a party, come over any time after eight? What time would you go? I would arrive eight? Yeah, I think, And this is a time where even you think five minutes early, this is a time where five minutes early is the worst thing you can do. Because if you go to someone's home, if anybody has ever hosted a party before, you know, the last five minutes, you know, you're doing the last details, you're taking something out of the oven, you're whatever, curling your hair, whatever it is.

That's the time that it's the worst. I was like ding dong, like really so the so I would say, just give that person who's posting a little extra times upper time and then show up and always I think, never show up empty handed. Always show up with something in hand. What about does a two leader bottle of Coca Cola count? Because George Constanza thought that was good etiquette. I mean, you know, I guess at the times on the crowd you're going to, if you're going to a crowd,

that that's what they drink. And right, I mean, you'll be the most popular one there if you bring a two leader call you would be It's all relative. But no, I think I always ask what can I bring? Before? I still ask im, like, hey, thank you so much, we would love to come. What can I bring? And not do this like I'm confused. This is? This is? I mean I always bring something, and I feel like it's so rude, Like you always show up if you're going to someone's home, even if it isn't a party.

I feel like it's nice to bring something or offer at least I think that anything. I could really be anything. It's just so it's just a show. Thinks really that you know for hosting, right, Yeah, but people are ignorant. A lot of people just don't know, you know, they show up and they think it's okay. I mean it is okay. I'm not saying it's like terribly wrong, but

it's also somewhat rude. Um. But on the flip side, if you're hosting a party, I always say not to allow people to bring things unless it's like the right, like it's a super Bowl party. Never is bringing something. It's like a pot luck. If someone comes and I'm having a dinner party, your costol party, and someone text me how I what can I bring? I always just say, you know, just an appetite season, thank you so much

for asking. I always say, like, just yourself, just bring yourself exactly, that's exactly right, because you don't want to I mean, there's nothing worse. And I've been assigned many times when somebody's hosting something amazing. Okay, Mike a great, Yes, I would love because please bring this, you know, theif or that, and you're not expecting it, right, it's just like, oh, um yeah, So that's that's my other thing. All of a sudden, you're responsible for the seven. And before you go, Mike,

I just have one more question. Whenever I think of etiquette, I think of dinner etiquette, and I always go back to that scene from Pretty Woman, which I'm sure everybody has seen by an hour. She flicks the meat ball and she doesn't know which fork is the salad fork. Yeah, and so is dinner etiquette still a thing? Because like elbows on the table, sitting up upright? Um, you you

just literally it is our most popular class. We We actually travel the entire We traveled the nation teaching huge classes of them, up to a thousand people at times, signing etiquette. It's our it's kind of our bread and butter people. Um, because once you learn from the most simple, simple techniques, you don't need to tick the class again.

It's that's all you need to know. Actually, just post an into my Instagram post yesterday was video on the basics of digning etiquette, because I got so many questions about I'm always feeling somebody's bread plate or wine glass probably know what side is on, and so I give like a little pipper trick um because if there's so many questions and you can't enjoy your meal on a date, is you're so concerned about which bourkn night to pick up.

It's all about having confidence, so you can go anywhere and just look down and know exactly what's in front of you. And that's kind of the key. I think, well that I love that. Yeah, it's good to know. I always I try to always not keep my elbows on the table, but it's very hard because that's kind of the way I sit. Yeah, I crossed my fingers and then it is very comfy. The soup thing gets me too. You have to from you go from me, You go toward the table, not toward yourself when you're

I know, I love this stuff. I was raised a certain way to like know exactly what to do. And then also you always write a thank you note, even for the smallest gesture. I love etiquette. Etiquette never goes

out of style. No, exactly right, and we're kind of making it hopefully it's you know, we keep formally but in a like a fun way so it's relatable and people, I'm a millennial people, you know, like if you make it too sterile and you know, it's polusly fun and it's really as about like I said, respect, So if you just kind of strip away all the formality about it, then then it's kind of like WHOA, I use this every day and hopefully other people, well we'll catch on

to that, do you do? I think they will. Well, mikeael Meyer, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. And where can everybody find you now? Oh? Thank you? Um so on social media it's at m y K A M E I E R at mikel Meyer or my website which is Beaumont Etiquette dot com. And we keep course at the Plaza Hotel here in New York in nationally fine, yes, and you have your partnership with Venmo, which is very exciting. We're very excited

for you and Michael. Once again, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. Thank you, I'll have a great day. Thanks very informative. I just started following her. That's good. I mean, that's what we want everybody listening go follow Mike as well. I'm sure she's a great a swell gal. She just seems very swell. It's the best way. Etiquette is something that, like you said, we'll never go out of style because it's always the small

details that I remember. For example, when you said thank you. Know, if I received a thank you note from somebody that I invited to get together, that would mean so much to me, And it probably took you ten seconds, right, And it's more of I mean, I hate to say this because it sounds like I'm being pretty selfish, but it's like a reflection of who you are, and it's

like it's your reputation. Like remember I sent you guys a nice little bottle of something when like I was supposed to come in studio to a nice little chit chat, pinched a nerve thanks to hot yoga. You know, couldn't if I had a nickel. I know it, man, I know it, but had to do a call in how to do a phoner and like I felt bad, so we send we send champs. Yeah, and that was very nice of you. But that's a nice thing to do, and it's so easy, especially with like all the apps

like Grizzly and all that stuff. I mean, it's like it's all the excuse to be a horrible human being. It's almost too easy now, and it just makes us lazy. And so now we've gone so far into the laziness that we don't even do it anymore because it's just too easy. Does that make sense? It does make sense. I don't know, it makes sense in my head, I feel saying it. I realized it doesn't make as much sense.

I understand. I'm picking up what you're putting down, and I understand it also because that's how it is for like the dating apps, Like I feel like with like Bumble Tender Array or whatever, like it's so easy for you to like match with somebody and it's like you get that little validation and then like the conversation doesn't happen,

or you become pen pals for three weeks straight. Well, it's all about instant gratification and with so with with dating apps, you get that immediately as soon as you match with somebody, So why do you need the validation of meeting up with them when you've already got the validation that they like you, right, and it's our pure laziness that just a yes, I know. I mean I have done I've been like, oh, here's cude, let's say where your match and then I'm like oh bye, oh yeah,

I I used to do it too. When I was on dating. I got called out one time by a girl. Oh. I went on a couple of dates with the girl and they were they were good, uh and she was very lovely just not my person, not act not actually I and um, I think I was also going through like personal things at the time as well. But I remember she wanted to meet up again, and I kind of kept putting it off because I knew it wasn't

really going anywhere. And then she texted me like randomly months afterwards, saying how I never gave her a chance and I'm gonna end up alone if I don't. Like she must have been drinking. Yeah, it was probably one of those nights where she was like, screw this guy, one o'clock in the morning, sending sending this text. Um. It was quite endearing though, because she was she was

right in a lot of ways. It was like, no, you're you're right, like, until I opened up myself more and give people more of a shot than I'm going to die alone. I fully understand where you're coming from.

I was just talking to my friend about how I really teet her right now in my life on like, yes, I'm independent choosing to be single right now until I find my exact person to like, I am going to die alone, Like thank god I have my dogs, you know, like you're convinced you're gonna die, like you have those moments. We're just like, you're so up and down. But I love that she called you out. That's great. Yeah, I was. It was weird because I didn't know her that well,

but I was. I was kind of while sad that being like, you know, telling her telling me that I'm like a shell of a man. But at the same time it was almost uplifting. I was proud of her and like, yeah, I know you're right. You're absolutely right. I need to step up to the play. I'm not doing as best a job as I can do within this dating world. Did you reply. I think I did something along the lines of, you know, saying, hey, listen, I'm sorry. You know you're you're right in some sense,

in other senses. I don't think you're right and probably not going to die alone. Yeah, it was kind of like an adult conversation. It was nice. Yeah, it was good. Yeah, hopefully I won't die alone. We'll find out. I guess soon enough. Um, i'd say, you're not going to dialone. I promise. I think I'll be okay. I think you're gonna be just fine. You're a beautiful young lady. I've

got a lot going for you. You're gonna be just fine. Um. We also got some very compelling emails coming up from our listeners, which, as you guys know, is my favorite part of the podcast. But before we do that, let's take a little break. My Heart Radio is celebrating the biggest weekend in music at our I Heart Radio Music Fest Now two nights at one stage with performances you've

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yours now at a x S dot com. That's a x S dot com, and get all the info at I Heart Radio dot com. You're not gonna want to miss the two night I Heart Radio Music Festival. Mark. We have some emails. Yeah, two juicy ones here. This is from an anonymous emailer, and those are always the juiciest. Definitely. I started dating a guy who said I love you just after a few months, but then he ended things because he wasn't sure if he was ready for a

serious relationship. A few months later, he started to pursue me again. Soon I love you as being said again, and then he took it back during a fight and said, I don't think this is love. The next thing, he apologized for being so harsh and just wanted to forget the night and act like it never happened. It's now been three years and he has never said I love you again or anything close to it. I literally don't know where his emotions are or if we're moving forward.

I have brought this conversation up three times within the past few month, and he will either react by not speaking or he will say I can't put it into words right now, but when I can, I'll bring it up. He knows how I feel, and this is making me so insecure. Is this a deal breaker? Do actions speak louder than words, even if you're asking for words. Yeah, this guy sounds like a child. He won't speak to her.

It sounds like he needs some therapy, and he uses love and his emotions as collateral in the relationship to hold it sounds like almost like all power. Yeah, he's he uses it as leverage over her head, like well, you know I'm not gonna say it now, so you just gotta keep waiting. Yeah, that's not even going to be a good dad, Like that's you have to think

about your future. This girl needs to get it's definitely not a good husband if he's using love as any type of leverage or just you even saying the word. It's so interesting though, because he obviously jumped in pretty quickly by saying I love you just after a few months, but then the relationship ended because he wasn't ready for anything serious. He obviously missed her, wanted her back, said

I love you, but then got into a fight. I'm curious what the fight was about and why it got so nasty where he said I don't think this is love, and then they date for three more years and he doesn't say it again. But there's got to be something about this guy that she is really into to spend three years with him. Well, things, if it's working in certain areas, people stick around, whether it's money or sex, and you never know, people stay in things because it's

working for them on some level. Yeah, it's comfortable, right, And I think she's trying to be like with the love languages, she's trying to be like, Oh, he does act like he loves me, but he won't say it. But she sounds like she needs words of affirmation. Clearly, How could you not after three years of not hearing it out? Um, I think, yeah, I mean, if you

keep and she's doing everything she can. She keeps going up to him and asking him to talk about things, and either he doesn't speak, which is absurd and childish, or he says I can't put into words right now, but when I can, I'll bring it up it's a form of abuse. Honestly, that is like the silent treatment, all of that. Things like that. Can that can just mess with you because he's gaslighting her. Fully, Yeah, what

does gaslighting? Gas flighting is when you're like mentally manipulating somebody into thinking that something is happening when it really isn't. Or I think it was based off of a play. Okay, so it's like an illusion where like like a guy was like turning the lights on and off and the woman was like, what's going on with the lights and he was like, nothing, nothing's going on when clearly things were happening. It's convincing you're part of their crazy for

believing the truth. Rightly, it's in order to have the control and the power of the relationship. I mean he's obviously doing that right now by saying that when I'm able to talk about it, I'll bring it up as if she has some advocate that part a little bit? Is it him? Like you know when a guy wants to propose and he wants it to be a big surprise and she keeps bringing up the proposals like no, no, no, no,

stop stopped out. I wanted to be a surprise because every time she brings it up, he's gotta wait like another three weeks, so it's not on top of mind anymore. Is that what he's doing? Maybe, like she keeps bringing up, like, stop bringing up I'm gonna say I love you. I'm gonna make a big production out of it. Ye. We don't know how. We don't know how annoying this girl is. She could be super annoying for annoying, Like she could just be like at dinner, like why would't you say

you love me? And this guy's like, please just let me breathe for three seconds without you bringing this topic off right, like I'm using the bathroom, okay, like you We don't really know what's going on. The only reason I don't think it's that it's because the last time any of this was brought up was in an argument three years ago when he says I don't think this is love and he apologized but has yet to say

it since in three years. And if he's saving it for the engagement, I got news for you, bro, Just say it as soon as you possibly can, because it's I don't think it would be a romantic gesture anymore for him to say it at the engagement. It's not great. She needs to figure out is she happy without those words. It's just really really get them why they do it? Anonymous. I feel like people feel ashamed, which they shouldn't. Everybody's going through issues in their own Yeah, you know, everybody's

got their own thing. But I feel like she can do better and she needs more and she deserves someone who will say that he loves her. I think she just needs more transparency, and if he's unwilling to give that, then she needs to think about moving on because this is not the way you should live here. And he's so like Willy Nilly with the I love you was in the beginning and then taking them away and all that.

I mean, it's not like a sweater. Yeah, the only I like the sweater award a lot, and then it just went out of fashion, so I'll stopped wearing it. I want it back. It's it's getting cold outside. Um yeah, I just think, uh, I forget what I lost my train of thought after the sweater thing. It's great. I love the sweater comparison. Don't you ever apologize for that. Kimberly has an issue that I think as relatable. To a lot of people. She says, I met a guy

named Adam. He's thirty nine right after I joined Hinge, so I was a little unsure of myself and my feeling since it happened right after my breakup. Us. Four or three months, we've become best friends. We text and or talk for hours every day. We're actually now in the friends with benefits category too. We both say that we have feelings for each other, but he's struggling to get me out of the friend zone. He says that I check nine out of the ten boxes on his list,

but the thing that's missing is the spark. He says, he feels like he's kissing his best friend Jared. Okay, well she personalized with this. Shi Jared, how did you get Ashley out of the friend zone? Well, actually did that herself. I don't want to take because Kimberly wants to do that. I think I've certainly never said to Actuley she checks off nine of my ten boxes. That's so bad. Any guy listening to this, do not ever say that to anybody so rude? Um, Well, I think

I mean listen. I'm not proud to say this, but with my situation with Actually I got a glimpse of my life without her and realized that I was being an idiot and that I was afraid of commitment and afraid of of diving into a relationship and had to kind of deal with my own insecurities as a person, as a man to really try to just push those to the side and go after the things I want, which was actually at the time. UM. I'm not saying that's a good thing, because it shouldn't come down to

that point for a lot of things. Um, but I think maybe this is a scenario where Kimberly, you could show this guy what his life would look like without you, because if you're checking off nine in the ten boxes, that's actually really good when you think about it. I'm sorry, but any within any relationship, your significant other, it's not gonna be ten out of ten. Everything is perfect. We agree on everything, we like to do everything, uh you know, the same at the same time, and we we never argue.

That's just not realistic and that's not how relationships work. And I think that's I needs to realize that this, and I'm surprised he hasn't because not say age is a huge factor, but being thirty nine years old, you would, you know, you go through so many different life experiences, Peter Pan. Maybe maybe yeah, maybe this is is not growing up. That could be an issue too, if he's afraid of commitment. You know, he's been single for a while. He's thirty

nine already. Um, that's certainly not old. But you know, I think at thirty nine you go through enough life experience to kind of have an idea of what you want exactly versus what you don't want, and the idea that you check off nine in the ten boxes. For me, seems like, hey, this is something I should want, I should go after, and she should just focus on herself because the more you focus on you, the more others

will too. And I believe that when you're dating, it's like you're dancing and you're you're in your own little world and your dance. And if you're loving your life and you're dancing in your own life, you need someone to pull you out of that to really make you, you you know, take notice and like really want to be with something. She just needs to focus on her own life.

That makes sense, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, absolutely, there's nothing more attractive than someone who loves their own life and they're not like focused on why this person doesn't want me all the way and stop sleeping with him. Yeah, that's a big one. Come on now, honey, giving up the goods? Yeah, you're given up the goods. And the thing is, why would he ever commit in a relationship where he has everything he wants right now? He has

he has the best best friend exactly. You're his best friend. You're talking to him every day, texting, calling, so it's pretty much a relationship there. You're sleeping with him, so he has the physical part of it. Why would he ever jump into a relationship when he has everything here he wants. It's interesting, he says, I can't. It's just it's like kissing my best friend. But you clear don't have any trouble having seen. Isn't that what we all

want to find? I want something I want to be. Yes, he's just he probably just doesn't want to take her to the airport. I mean my friends, he doesn't. He doesn't want to do all those things, you know, the relationships stuff, Sadie. So if you had to describe your dating life with one dance, what is your dance? The salsa? The Sausa. I like it. Insert emoji girl with blonde hair. Nice and you're wearing a red dress. Doesn't she wear the red dress in the emojio? You are that emoji girl?

Right now? Before we go, I just wanted to tap touch on God. That last email got my mind in the gutter. Apparently I wanted to touch on the bachelorrette Sadie. You were on the show, so was I. Last night was hometowns. I know you have some particular opinions about it. I don't know if you wanted to voice them. Hannah certainly did last night on Twitter. I don't know if you guys saw that and see that. I'd like to know.

So what happened? So she was live tweeting along with the show, and are you maybe live having some veno? I think she was having a couple of classes of you know, maybe you know she's enjoying herself. Some of her grammar was a little off. Um, but have you kept up with the jet drama as well? Do you know about that? You know about the windmill with his off show stuff. I haven't heard anything. This is huge news. Talk to me. So Jed is obviously in the final four.

About three weeks ago, People magazine broke the story that Jed went on The Bachelor rete with a girlfriend that he broke up with by text or the other did not break up with her. He went on the show told this girl that he was going to fake the entire thing he wanted to go on for his music career, and that when he got off the show they would they would still be together. Literally, I'm not surprised though

all he's plugging his music like nobody's wasable. Hey Hannah, let's get to the studio and write a song together and I'll be the only one singing. It's like he's doing a parody of himself, because last night during Hometowns, you think, I'll watch Jed's gonna have some sort of musical hometown And of course what did they do except go into a studio write a song together about how they're in the stars. And it's like, you can't even write this stuff. You can't write it. It was so lame.

And she's like, maybe it's I have stars in my dress with the sign she was falling forward obviously, but you know, a guy with the guitar, you know, I can I can see it. I totally see it um. And so that's the big drama right now. I Mean, there's obvious in the show, but that's a big one because he's obviously in the final four. He's going to

Fantasy Fantasy sweets, and she already gave it up. Apparently from all the promos she does say that she had sex with somebody in the windmill, and it does from everything I've seen online, it seems like it was Jed. Well, he's smart, because we're talking about him right now. Yeah, he's not that smart though, because as soon as the show ends, people are going to hate. Oh my god, yeah that can we talk about how beautiful Luke's mom was,

Like she was hot? Oh yeah, well she had the white hair, but she looks twenty silver blonde, but like beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. The only thing that I like about Luke is his mom. I think Luke is just so in over his head right now. He has no idea what the hell is happening around I just he's that's a lot for me. And also can wait this is this has nothing to do with like their relationships or anything. This is more of like a social etiquette moment. When Tyler was saying

goodbye to Hannah and her suv. Her suv is waiting outside the drivers in the driver's seat parked car, and they just start going at it, straddling him while the driver is just sitting there, like I hope I get five stars, Like I don't know, It's just like what was that? I mean, Well, when you don't see someone or you know you're not going to see someone for a while, I think emotions run high and you just

get in the moment. And is that why she wraps her legs around them every time she can you imagine me doing that on like a second day, like in Santa Monica, like outside of a restaurant, like just jumping up full straddle. Well, doesn't every girl do it on the show? Though? I feel like I've seen a thousand times, especially when like it's a group day and like the girls are running towards the guy and then they jump up and hug him. And I'm fine with the jump

up and hug. It's the straddling, It's it's really it's very distracting intimate. I just can't unsee it. And that uber driver was there for every seven way. But the reason I bring up tweets his Handah was going along with the ride, so to speak. She was tweeting when she went on the date with Pete the pilot, and she said, yeah he's a cutie. Um, I don't think she's going to pick him really really yeah, Oh, I

think she's going either Tyler or Jed right now. What about Jed's girlfriend, Well, she's gonna be highly disappointed when they come back together. Or who knows, maybe he'll get everything. I don't know what already came out. So it's too late. Now he can't go back, right, he has to commit his actual story. I know, I don't know what the hell he's gonna do. But she was like. She also said that Hannah, Hannah was talking about God, I can't

even talking to more. She's talking about Peter. And she said that he was the smoothest landing I've ever experienced. He knows his way around the cockpit. Wow, she was just going in last night. She was yeah, yeah, yeah she was. And then so she was feeling, she was feeling herself. So she also said when the Jed date was happening, Jed made a toast at one point. I don't know if you remember whether it he was like to family, the people I love, and to somebody I'm

starting new love with or something like that. She tweeted, good toast, good message, cheers a little shady, little shade, obviously, and then she tweeted immediately afterwards saying, I wish I could tweet the things coming out of my family's mouth right now. Lulls z really like that's a big yeah. That's not laugh out loud. That's like laugh out loud plural. Everybody's laughing out loud. Wow. I wonder what they were laughing about. I don't know, but it was. I think

it was during Jed's date when she tweeted that. So obviously there's some shade being thrown the Jed way. So I'm very curious how this whole thing plays out, because now she's bringing four guys to the Fantasy Sweet she just can't get enough. She can't get enough. Hey, you know, let's just love it, love it. And to be fair to her, we have no idea what happens within the Fantasy suite. She could want just more personal off camera

time with all these guys just playing Devil's advocate. If we know by the Windmill story, that is a very fair point. Um, so it should be. I just wanted to touch on that, and uh, it should be an interesting finish. I really hope it's pet. I hope it's Y. When he was like doing his toast, I felt was very very genuine, very authentic. Gosh, and his mom really really likes Hannah to It seems like a very just wholesome, happy family. You want to, you know, be a part

of totally around. And I should better learn that German prayer. Yeah, I better get up that quick. Um. Yeah, I mean I'm hoping, obviously, I'm just hoping that it's not Jed or Loup right now. I know. I honestly, I'm starting to feel bad for Luke a little bit. Why because I think he's just has no idea what's going on. I think he's just trying to be somebody else and he's I'm not saying, I'm not advocating his ways, but he just I don't know why she's keeping around. There's

no idea what he's doing. Hannah knows it. I mean, she knows by now that this guy just needs to just go home and reevaluate some things. Yea, and yeah, he is still here crazy Town. The best part was when his parents were like his whole family was basically like kind of convincing Hannah of what a great guy he is, and like she's just like, I know, she

wasn't even saying anything. She's like, she's just doing her signature smile to be with a smile, you know what I mean, Like, Okay, I'm not gonna say anything not nice right now. Yeah, but I'm gonna smile. I'm just gonna smile and nod. Um. What about Tyler's tight pants? Do we get to talk about that tighter than Hannah as I felt like they were. I don't know, it was just something I noticed. Yeah, I mean the dude works out. He wants to show it all. I mean,

go for it. Women are going crazier for Tyler. See right now, I know he's He's the cats me out, as they say in today's world, because we all know the kids are saying that, aren't they. Yes, Um, well that should do it right there. For our episode of help by Second Dating this week, Sadie Murray, thank you so much for joining us. You were I had a blast two. This is a really great episode and you will have to come back when the whole cruise here, Vanessa dean um and make sure it's not a phoner.

So when if when, when you come back on the podcast, no hot yoga that week, No hot yoga, and I will I will physically bring the champagne this time. That's etiquette, that's nice etiquete. I gotta bring something. I know Vanessa phones in, so we're going to make sure that she plans ahead and has the last champagne. UM. And a big thank you to Mike al Meyer who is the founder and director of what was that again? Beaumont Etiquette,

where she teaches etiquette all around the world. You can go check out uh that website beaumont etiquette dot com to find out more about Mica. I keep saying Murray because your last name is Mary Micayer. Lots of ms. Thank you for everybody listening to the podcast, because without you guys listening, there would be no podcast, so we really appreciate it. Thank you for all the emails that get sent in is my favorite part of the podcast.

We love hearing from you guys, And if you can send in more emails, please do so at I suck at dating at I heart media dot com. And if you don't already. Please follow us on Instagram and Facebook. Our instagram is at help I Suck at Dating, and then the Facebook group is of course help I Suck at Dating Podcast. There's a lot of good discussion in there. Uh, friends are being made, We're creating a little bit of

a community on there, which I really like. So thank you everybody for listening, and make sure you tune in next week for an all new episode where hopefully we all suck a little less. Follow help by Suck at Dating with Dean, Vanessa and Jared on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to podcast