Van-ity Fair

What's going on, man, how's your Labor Day weekend? They was good. Easton is definitely listening. He just put his face up. My Labor Day weekend was good. I flew back from the East Coast, so we are back in Los Angeles now. I got a test for COVID today, so we'll wait for the results on that. But dude, it was good. It was just pretty low key, like I said, traveling and uh, hanging out the house. Now. Ashley and I have a movie date night plan for tonight.

We're gonna watch Scream four because we're gonna, you know, September. It's getting towards Halloween. Um, and that's about it. How is your labor day weekend? What did I do this? Say? I've been doing a lot of band renovations, so I spent most of the weekend cutting wood, painting, painting quite Hansy, she's good, Yeah, she was. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think either of us. I don't think we would either call

each other good at dude, painting is hard. It's like in theory, you're just like, oh, you're just rubbing a brush up and down some wood. It's gonna be fine. But then like you paint and it dries and you look at it and you're like, wow, that really sucked. Did you find that a good bonding experience between the two of you or was did it like tear your relationship apart? Do you guys start arguing? Or was it

like nice moment? No, it was neither the things. I mean, it's funny because I said, well, what's funny is I was like, this is gonna be a great bonding moment for us, just jokingly, and Killen goes, what do you mean, We're like, we're already bonded. How did we How do we need to keep having bonding moments? And it was just it was a very funny moment that I guess maybe isn't as funny now that I'm retelling the story.

But uh, now there was some like there was some hurt feelings, not like obviously seriously hurt ornything like that, well just because it's like, you know, she would paint something, and she does. She did a fantastic job, and I mean eternally grateful that she was there helping me paint.

But then I would look at it and be like, no, like and it was just like my stupid like perfectionism where I'm like, which is I've never a perfectionist obviously, but like you know, when you are working on your own things and you want them to be done to the best of the ability that you're capable of, and I saw like one little stroke out of place, and I was like, no, no, no no, no, we gotta go and do another layer of paint over this to make sure everything is even um. But it was all obviously

a good hearted and fun and everything. But yeah, we got most of the painting done. We got I got a couple of new lights installed. I got a bunch of new van stuff installed. So we got a bunch of work done, which is really nice. I've been like so obviously, as you guys know, I like, I did the van last year with my dad, and then like a month ago I got the whole thing and I was like, you know what, this van sucks, like I

don't like anything about it. So that's why I took it all apart, and that's why I'm doing all of this now. And even in its incomplete state, it is like leaps and bounds better than it used to be.

So it's pretty nice to be able to like, you know, have a part and had obviously have because because when I did the van the first time, I didn't have Kaylin with me, and so it's now it's nice to be able to like stay in the van with Kaylin and both of us be like, oh, like we both had a hand in creating this little home that we get to travel around and you know, so that's like it's that's definitely the great body. Well that's what I

was gonna ask you. Are you so when you redid the van this past weekend, did you redecorate it more just like whatever you wanted? Or now is Kylin having a say like, oh, I think this would look better. Like, for example, when you decorate an apartment, you know you do it for both. I'm like, okay, Ashley, well, you know we have to compromise because a guy and a girl living here and we both have different likes. Are you doing the same thing with the van or is

it just kind of your style? No, it's happy. You're absolutely right, and it's it's a lot of like when we're painting, I'd be like, do you think I should paint this? And like I'll have I'll have the answer already in my head, but I am curious to hear like what she would say, and like how she would weigh in on the situation, And usually I would say almost ncent time we agree on things. So it's like, should be paint this? No, no no, no, we shouldn't paint that,

should paint that? Yeah, we should definitely paint that. Uh. And then also like, the only reason there's a toilet in there now because when I first at the van, there was no toilet, but now there's a toilet in there. And the reason I have a toilet is just specifically for Kalin, Like, as a guy, you can just step outside into the woods and take a you know, take a piss wherever you want to take a piss, but

as a girl, it's a little bit more. There's a little more steps involved, and so it's nice that she kind of has that ability, you know, like especially like in urban areas to Like, we haven't really done much of urban camping in the van, her and I, but there were a couple of times where I was like sleeping in it in l A and I like really had to use the bathroom at like three in the morning. But like I'm parked on some streets and it's like, what am I supposed to do? I feel like p

and a a water jug or something. But then it's like, you know, you're stumbling through the night. You're aiming. Sometimes you miss. There's like a little bit of a stench that sticks around. It's nice to have, uh that what happens if you guys have to defecate. Uh. There's a very strict rule of no number two is in the van, and we've actually we've upheld the note number two real pretty good. I mean, you know, it's like two number two is are way more predictable. You can just like

take a trip down to a gas station. I mean sometimes they're unpredictable, and those are the ones that you need something asap. Yeah, listen, under extreme circumstances, of course we'll do. Number two is number three in the van, but we haven't gotten there yet, and it's actually been a pretty good system. Like even to this day, there's

probably only been like five number ones. Like we try not to do it that frequently just because it's you know, it's it's kind of weird that there's a toilet literally touching the bed that you sleep in every single night. Um, but yeah, we we found a way to make it work, and it's been good. It's been a good labor day. It's like, looking at the van now, it looks much

better than it before. It's still, like I said, isn't complete, but we're getting closer and closer to haven't finished, and Labor Day was was helpful for that because otherwise, you know, Caitlin is able to fly out to Colorado, which is where we are now, and we were able to get some work done. But anyways, enough about me, enough about the van, enough about Kylin, enough about all that crap. Well,

definitely not. We're not done talking about vans. I'll tell you that much well, you're absolutely right and and and you're right because for the listeners, we have a very special episode today. Uh So, a couple weeks ago, maybe like a month or two ago, I met a girl in Sequoia and Caitlin and I were on a trip up in Sequoia. We met a couple of fellow van lifers and she was kind enough to agree to come on the podcast and tell us all about her experience

with van life. She's been doing it for I think like over a year now. Um, so we're gonna have her come on and talk to us about her experience with the van life. I want to get to know more about like her dating lifestyle in the van, because ninety six percent of my lifetime in my van has been with a girlfriend who's been very understanding, and I've never really been single in it. So, um, that's coming up.

What else are we doing today, Jared? Besides that, Well, we're talking about uh well, number one, we said last week that we're gonna bring new dating terms to every podcast, So I found another one that I don't think we've talked about yet on this podcast. You know, like dating slangs, Like we talked about ghosting last week. I've already forgotten the term. Oh, Michelle's there. Michelle's somehow made it into

the zoom called before we were able to take our break. Michelle, we're so stuck to have you on, but we can't talk to you right now. We have to take a commercial break, and then we're gonna jump right back in and well, I guess we'll just get right to it and then, Jared, hopefully you can save your dating terms for later, or better yet, maybe we can answer and talk about them with Michelle. Sweet. All right, we're gonna take a quick break. You guys as listeners, stay tuned,

and we're gonna get right to Michelle. All right, everybody, welcome back to help I suck at dating. And as promised, we have a van lifer here. Her name is Michelle, and she has been living in a van for I think, like their how long over a year obviously, right, Michelle? Yeah, almost two years? Actually almost two years, two years in November. Awesome, Okay, cool. So for the listeners, I gave him like a quick

little background about you and all that stuff. And I've heard it all from you too, from when we weren't sequoied together. But I want you to be able to at least share with listeners, like how you got into it while you're doing it, what you love about it? Uh, just kind of like the whole genesis of the situation. Cool Actually, I, Um, I got into it kind of through music festivals. I I saw some people doing it when I was working at music festivals, probably like six

years ago. Um, and then fast forward like three years after that, I was like, I'm going to build my own band. So that was, you know, like three years ago now. Um. I did it mostly because I wanted to travel and do photography. So that was like one of the main goals just learn more, travel around and see see the states. How old you, Michelle? I'm twenty nine, so you were when you right around there when you

moved into the van? Yeah yeah yeah. And I bought it about like six months before I left, so and built it out. It took about three months. And so what did you tell your friends and family when you were like, Hey, listen, this is what I'm gonna do. I'm going to move into a van and live there. Um. It's funny because I have like an accounting and like finance a degree, so it was like very like out of the blue kind of. But I've always been a traveler,

so they weren't too surprised. Um, they weren't super supportive, but they now love it and are supportive, and I think it's awesome, So that's good. I've got a question for you. So when I first did it, all of my friends and family were very supportive of it. They were like obsessed with the idea. They're like, awesome, where we love it. But there was like a like a public stick stigma I guess attached to it, where people that I've never met or have never known before we're

like talking down on the idea of it all. Have you experienced that at all? Because so for the listeners, Paula Michelle on Instagram, it's Michelle dot Lawrence right, yeah, yep, so follow her on Instagram. She has a wonderful aesthetic and isn't a very talented photographer and you're not gonna regret that. But have you experienced any like public backlash or um, anything like that for the choices that you've

made for your lifestyle. I feel like I get a little bit discriminated against because my van looks old, and so if I'm in a parking lot, or doing something totally normal. People will like just because it's a van call me out on things that like, oh, a car has been here for you know, a part here for four hours, but they'll notice my van for I don't know if you get that you're in you're in a sprinter, right, yeah, I mean it's mine is like clearly a conversion, and

yours is a little bit more incognito. I think. Yeah. But if I'm in a really nice neighborhood and parked on the side of the street, I get like some like people will be like, oh, there's a sketchy van, and like sometimes called the cops or you know, come out and knock and be like, oh, I have children, so I was just checking to make sure that you were normal. I guess I don't know which is like you can it's like annoying, but you can kind of

understand where they're coming from too. I feel like, right, yeah, no, fully, yeah, I I welcome it. Usually if I'm parked outside someone's house. I was in Santa Cruz for a while, and um, I would like park and go surf and walk around

this place called the Point. It's just on the ocean, and I would always try to make sure the neighbors knew that I was, that it was me and it was my van, and but it's pretty yeah, that's how I'm your neighbor now, so I'm obviously the one who's I don't know if I could do it, because, like I remember watching This Is Gonna Be I saw Into the Wild, uh, and love the movie, love the story of Christma Candles, ended up reading the book, and I was thinking to myself, I would love to just let

go of everything caught up by credit cards, you know, and just live in the woods somewhere, you know. And I'm sure that it was a little bit of an inspiration for you both, even though you guys have very nice vans and it's honestly like a studio apartment at this point. But I guess like after a week I wouldn't be able to do it, just because I would miss the normalcy. I would be honestly, would be too scared. That's what it would really come down to. Be scared. Yeah,

I mean honestly, I would. I would be scared. Would you be afraid of I would be afraid of someone breaking into the van. I would be afraid of like being um like like you guys said, not a nuisance to people, but like people looking at me weirdly, Like you guys talked about even parking on the side of the street and like having to find a place to park where you're not going to have the cops called

on you. That would make me new. I feel like you need to reiterate that, like most of the time people are too worried about their own lives to focus on what's going on around them. So I would say like nine percent at this time, no one notices me, Like even though I'm a girl in a van, people are just walking down the street. They don't even look

at it. Um, it's just like a few times in the two years, it's probably been like a handful of times that something's happened where someone will be like, oh, you're in the wrong space, or like I kind of will park in like a uh, like the gym I shower at Planet Fitness, so I'll park in the parking lot and some of them are you can park overnight and some you can't, and so like it'll be a situations like that, But most of the time, nobody really

notices you at all. And I think that that I've only had like less than I've only been doing it less than you, especially with my injury when I was living with Kalen full time, even less because of that. But there was a few circumstances where a few instances where just because it was a van in a parking lot, people get like slightly more suspic is shis of it. And so I think I was in a parking lot once for even like forty five minutes and a cop came banging on the door and he like made me

get out and he was like looking around. It's like, well, he's like, yeah, we got some complaints about you being parked here. I was like, I'm literally just sitting here watching Netflix. Yeah, no loitering. Yeah. Do you guys think this is will be the rest of your life or do you see yourself, you know, one day getting out of the van and going back to you know, an

apartment house, go and so forth. People ask me this a lot, and like recently I've been having people just be like, oh, well, how long are you going to do it? Because I initially was telling people I was just going on a three month road trip and then but like in the back of my head, I knew that if I liked it, I would continue to do it. And so like, I'm almost thirty, we'll be thirty in June, and I'm like, I have no, Like I don't want to live in a house. I can't imagine maybe eventually,

but like maybe like a couple of years down the road. Yeah, I have no I have no desire to rent at all. This is like an extremely easy, fun way to live. So well, Michelle, you have a name for your van, right, Yeah, it's Carl Carl, So you couldn't imagine giving Carl up anytime soon. And people ask me, like, when Carl dies, what are you gonna do? I'm like, Carl is not gonna die, He's a car. Yeah, what a horrible way

to thing. I'm very much the same. I'm in the same boat too, where I don't see myself really renting a place again. Um, but I guess I've kind of been intrigued and Kitlin and I haven't toying around with the idea of like buying a place that we would like split time between that and the van. Um. But yeah, I agree, it's like once you kind of experience like not having to pay rent and the ability to kind

of move around freely as you want to. It's like if you were to go back to renting an apartment somewhere on the East Coast or West Coast or river, it is you're kind of like stuck in that spot, especially like renting, because you're you're you're paying so much money to essentially lease out of space for a short amount of time, and if you're not there while you're renting, you feel like you're like paying for something that you're not getting anything from. So it's like, why would you

not want to be at your rental property? You know. So I'm kind in the same boat too when I first did it, And again I feel we were talking to you about this because I have kind of gotten the cheap skateway of doing the whole van life thing where I bought the van, moved into the van. I did it for like four months, and then I got a girlfriend and I basically moved into my girlfriend's apartment and then I would be quarantine, right Yeah, and well, and I broke my leg, and so it's because of

that as well. But I say, of doing it, I don't get it. Yeah, you're selling short. Well, I guess I haven't really fully uh like I've committed to the lifestyle of van life thing, right, but I still have the luxuries of having like an anchor point back in Santa Monica Kalin's apartment or both worlds. Isn't that what you like? Michelle? Is that something you'd want one day

to be able to have van life? But also the security of so I get this a lot where so I'll be in a house right and people will be like, oh, you're in a house. It's like, because I live in a van, I'm not allowed to be in a house anymore. Like I can still have friends that have houses and I can use their bathroom a like when I'm at

their house, you know what I mean. So I feel like a lot of people because you're in a van, Like if you're dating someone that's in a house, you would go, like, even if you were in a house, you would go over to the house. So it's essentially

the same thing. It just becomes this this thing where you kind of live outside their house and then things because and where you can, Yeah, things get really intense very fast if you start dating someone, especially when they live in a house, and even if they live in a van. Too, and you're dating someone that lives in a van, You're you're just like traveling together and parking next to each other, so it gets really intense for

so is that like? And I'm kind of being facetious, but at the same time, I do want to know this, is that kind of like the Facebook official of dating someone in van lice is if you guys like, Okay, now we're gonna start parking next to each other, that's a big deal. I guess I don't know. It depends on the person. I think, why do you think that is? Why do you think it intensifies so quickly? Because I was trying to think about it while you were explaining

that whole situation, and I agree with you. It does

seemed to happen that way. And I guess the only way that I could really explain it would be that you have all this time, and like the reason that you, from my understanding, moved into the van was to enable your ability for exploration and photography and explore these tree artists that you have and a lot of people that live in a van share those same ideas and the same mentality, So it's like, why wouldn't you share that with someone else that you might also be like romantically

interested in, and so I guess, uh, that's that's my I guess explanation as to why it intensifies. Right, It's just shared interests and the ability to explore those interests together, right, Yeah. I think also going on trips with people makes you closer, like you and Kaylyn do a lot of traveling together, and traveling makes people closer, and it makes it feel more intense because you're having those experiences together versus just going over to each other's houses every now and then.

You're spending like a week together in a small van, so it makes it more it makes it feel more intense.

I guess, yeah, right now, that makes sense. But but yeah, okay, so Jared was going to get to the point of it, and I definitely want to to to dive into a little bit more because we are dating podcast, and as I mentioned at the top of the podcast, I think before you join us, I haven't really been single and living in a van at any point, because I you know, I've had the band for fourteen months and David Klein

for thirteen months. So what has your experience been like as a single woman living the Vani life for the past two years just kind of like a brief thirty foot overview of what you've experienced. Well, so I went into living in the van not really looking for that.

Um I. I was kind of just of the mindset that if I was doing what I loved and learning and exploring and doing the things that I wanted to do, I would find someone that was doing the same, which is interesting because you're the pool of people that are actually doing or living how they want is kind of small,

which is unfortunate. So when I what I've experienced with dating is that I'll meet someone and they'll see my life and either they'll want to change theirs, which is like very hard to have someone look at you and be like I want to change my life. I hate my job, I hate living in this apartment, Like I hate everything about my life. Can you don't want to put that on someone? Um or you find someone, so

you it kind of narrows your pool, I guess. So you just want to find people that have similar interest to you, which is living in a car, which is like not that many people. But well, and and Jared and I have talked about this a lot on this podcast.

Throughout its entire lifespan. Is we feel like the most successful or at least like the most prevalent dating app is Instagram, And we we know that people meet people all the time through d m s and all that kind of stuff, and so when people maybe see your lifestyle, they want to at least be part of it or replicate it. And then do they reach out to you

or like what? Like meeting people in today it's easier than it's ever been before, right, so when you meet someone that you might be interested in, like, how does that all kind of transpire? I guess I thought also leaving being like alone in my van traveling across the country, I would feel lonely. But I've never like I felt more lonely living in my apartment in a town than I do living in the van traveling across the country because people are excited about what I'm doing, so they

want to hang out more. And there are so any town I'm in, there's people like, hey, let's hang out. And even before I had the small following I do, it was it was people from high school or college that we're in random cities and towns that were like, hey,

let's grab coffee when you're driving through. So I've I'm like really fortunate that that happened and I didn't get like and I'm kind of an I'm outgoing, so I would go into a coffee shop and strike up conversation with a random person and then hang out for for a week Like that wouldn't be rand, that would be normal for me. So that's such an interesting point you make. Two is I feel the exact same way. When I was living in my house in Los Angeles with like

three of my best friends. I would never say I felt lonely, But I feel like ever since, I've like definitely focused more like traveling and doing these things. Um, people get way more excited for me for the things that I'm doing, and they feel more inclined to like reach out and like check in. And so you're maybe like not around as many people as you're used to, but you're definitely not communicating more frequently with the people

that you're close with. Yeah. I always tell people that I like chose when I got in a van to play life instead of letting it play me, Like I feel like we're on this earth to play a game. Kind of It's like do it the best you can have the most fun, like you know, obviously be responsible, but don't let life play you. And a lot of in that mentality shift is like so important for me, especially with dating um. Having someone that agrees with that and like it is living their life to the fullest

is really important. So do you guys like living in the van? I love it so much. I love it so much. You would like it if you came and hung out in here, you would like it. It's like a little cabin. Honestly, it's the best. It's like it's it's so nice to you a little wake up in like a small little space no where everything is being a cool new place and just like it's cozy. I honestly, yeah,

I think it's great. I definitely there's a noticeable shift in my like happiness when I am like traveling and doing stuff like that versus when I'm just like you know, in Santa Monica or something that I'm happy both times, but there's like a very noticeable difference. Yeah, I don't think it's for everyone though, Like I don't, I don't. I wouldn't say everyone this would be the best fit

for everyone. So let me ask you Michelle, if you had if you had to choose one and say, because we are dating podcasts obviously, and a guy you met either said I want you to move out of the van for the rest of our lives and buy a house so we can move on, or would you rather have a guy say I want to live in a van for the rest of our lives. I never want to live in an apartment or a house again. So you had to choose, what would you choose? I would I would choose a van for the rest of your life,

for the rest for you, I'm very envious. I swear, I swear no, I believe you, but I would I wouldn't. I'm not trying to view with someone that's like I want to be in a in a house or That's another thing I was thinking about when asked to be

on the podcast. It's it's almost so I'll meet someone in a random city that I'm in and if I have interest in them, and I have plans to leave that city like the next day or the next week, but I kind of like a person and I'm like, I don't have plans to come back to this city for a year. Puts a lot of pressure on me, like should I stay? Should I see how this goes? And then they know that I'm staying probably because of them. You can play it off, you know what I mean

a little bit. But it's like it makes it a little bit confusing because I'm not rooted in a place, so I don't have to be anywhere. So if I meet someone somewhere and I'm choosing to stay because of them, that's like a huge pressure. Right happened? Yeah, for sure? Can do you? Do you mind talking about it? Because that's very interesting. Well, that's exactly kind of like I was.

I met this guy and in a city, in a city, I just it was a town, a small town, and we hung out for you know a little bit, and then I had plans to go to a different state, and yeah, I guess I just I went, but I wanted to stay. But I didn't want it to get intense, so I was just like, yeah, well that's very sweet. How let's go. How long ago did you leave? I

feel like you're getting all like cut with me. It's very it's very very it's very just very like Nicholas Sparks story right there, you know, where like the girl in the van meets a guy from a small town and she's got to go, but she wants to stay, but they don't know if it's ever gonna work out, and she leaves, and and then you know, obviously you guys still have well do the Bachelor van life edition in this story right now, dude, that would actually be

a really good idea. Michelle is the bachelor atte she goes down the town, all these been life tuters down with this. I think we should pitch this through a television network right now, let's pitch it. I'll get ABC on the horn. How far can you hike? Though? Right? Right? Right? Well, and that's a that's an interesting point you made earlier too. It's like to Jared's question where he asked you would you rather be with a guy in a house or

a guy in a van? I feel like you would never want to be with a guy that would give you the sort of ultimate him anyways, of course, yeah, or someone that would say something like, oh, you have to stay here to date me if you leave. I don't want to date you, like I really need to. I'm focusing on myself, but if I were to get into a relationship, it would have to be like in

and out or like us traveling together. I would never give up what I'm doing or my happiness or just to live in the same place with someone you know, well, Michelle, So I'll be honest with you. Our listener base of this podcast is predominantly female. But let's say guys and sending this right now, and he's very interested in getting your attention. What would be the best way for someone

to like find you? Well, obviously find you on Instagram, but like what would be the what would be necessary for him to do to be like for you to get excited to meet him or something like that, you know what I mean? Like, how does what's kind of your thing? Oh? No, that's a hard one. I think it's so situational. I definitely like when like you mean like sliding the d M s or like or like if you were scrolling through his Instagram page, what would be something that would jump out to you? Yeah, oh,

I love I like I love active people. So if it's any like sports type of Instagram, I like that? Is that? What we're is that along the line of, so you want somebody's active, So would you rather be like are you looking for like a sports guy or somebody who's more like you know, goes on hikes and in wilderness either or would be good like photographers. Also, I've been thinking about musicians because they have a similar

lifestyle that would that would work with my life. Yeah, and then obviously people that like snowboard, pike bike Are you even interested in are you even interested in having someone with you at all times? Or do you kind of enjoy the aspect of like you had when when when Michelle and I met, she was traveling with one of her friends, Kira, which I assume is she's still with you. Yes, well she's with some of our friends now,

but she's with me. So would you rather would you rather keep doing your solo thing that having your friends come along when they can, or would you prefer to have like romantic partner with you for a large part of it as well? Because I feel like a big thing, as you mentioned earlier too, is like the ability to go out on your own and like experience these things and figure it out on your own. I feel like, ideally I would meet someone that has like their own

projects going on. So let's so it could start off being like, you know, we're coming in and out and that they have their like they're not just like living my life all of a sudden. So they travel and do their own thing. Um, and I travel and do my own thing and we come together like in between. But I wouldn't be opposed to someone to travel with

someone full time either. Yeah, it just if it would work out, you know, like if I'm like, oh, I have a job in I want to shoot photos in Utah, Like if I can just go there and they don't have to feel like they have to follow me because they have, you know, something that they have to do in Colorado or California or something like that. You know, I feel like that's the only way to have a

sustainable relationship and also do van life. Because Dean, I mean, I don't want to speak for you, but it seems like that you and Caitlin have a pretty good balance, which is something that you need because even so I've been married for a little over a year and we've been my wife and I have been living together for about two and a half years, and it comes to a point where you just need, like I need another room.

You know. I'm very lucky to be able to like, Okay, you go in the fan you know, say in the living room watch TV. I'm gonna go in my little room to the side and and just like play a video game. Like you need that space. And if you guys live together in a van, that would be very nervous for me because there is no space unless, like you guys said, you have your own things going on.

So I guess Michelle, and you know, I want to get your take on this too, Like, could you ever see yourself living with somebody else in a relationship in one van? I can, but I don't really. I would prefer them to have their own van or they're all vehicle and like we can sleep in one or the other, but we can have our own separate space if it's long term we're traveling together. Michelle, I think we talked

about this too. It's funny seeing when you post pictures of yourself in your van, you're like, wow, that van is pretty big and spacious, but it's because you're you're you're a small person, and so it's like, yeah, I'm five ft tall, so my van's like five one. So a lot of people will be like, I bought the same van and I can't stand up in it. Yeah, So if you hard to imagine it. If you hard to imagine a guy that's like six ft tall coexisting and cohabitating in the van with you, you know, that's

something that you go through. Well, I'm tall, I've got I've got a high top van, so I can stand in mind. But it's funny because mine, my van is you know, taller than Michelle's. But I feel more cramped in it than when I see photos of her. And then especially it is more cramped in there because you have so many cabinets. Yeah, I've got a lot of I'm a big a fan of storage. That's that's definitely true, dude.

And sometimes, and I obviously love when Calin joins me on the van trips, but she'll like bring her her carry on suitcase into the van and I'm like, okay, well I've never really counted where her carry on suitcase is gonna go while we're like moving through the van um And then that like makes it extra crowded. So it's kind of a constant going through things to get rid of things and add things like donate clothes and

bring clothes in. Like when Kira came in the van, she's going to be here for a couple of months, I was I didn't want a suitcase laying around, so I just got rid of half of my stuff basically, and she half of her stuff. Yeah, have you, guys, how has the experience been with your friend in the van with you? Because that that's your I mean again, I don't know for certain, but I would imagine that's like your biggest taste of cohabitating in the van. Right.

Have you guys got to the point where you get upset with each other? And I think that, oh, yeah, but it's been good. We're very good at communicating, and we often say like, if we communicated with men like this, life would be easier because if I start feeling something, we just say it, so there's no like grudge holding, you know. Um And then yeah, she's super helpful and treats it like it's her space, which is really nice, instead of it being my space that she's living in. Um,

So it's been really good. Nice. Nice? Is the allure of van life more about living in the van or the ability to travel whenever you want? I think it's a combination. I don't I feel like my van is as comfortable as an apartment, and I don't have to

pay for an apartment. Like my van total cost seven seven thou dollars, like think about how like and I've lived in it for two years, so it saves me a lot of money and like stress, I guess from having to make money to pay rent, so I can be a little bit more free with the projects that I want to do or learning Like I before I left, I had just gotten into photography, so like learning how to even make money doing that. I had the ability to do that because I wasn't. I didn't have like

intense monthly bills. Yeah, that is that is a big point because you know, both you engine yourself. Both you and Dean both have professions that you guys are able to do while traveling, which is key. So you said that you said something that was interesting. Your van was seven thousand dollars, So like what does that get you? So somebody who's listening to podcast right now thinking of themselves, I want to do van life. I want to do this, Like so what is like if they have like ten

thousand dollars, what does that get you? Like for your how many miles did your van have it? What did it come with? Like a bed? And Yeah, so no, I, well it's a g mc Vendora night. Holy, that's awesome one a great year because I was born that year. But to that car twenty thirty two years old? Holy? Did you just said you were born that year? How old? Yeah? So I bought it for three thousand, three hundred dollars. Um,

I talked him down. I bought it from a guy named Carl, and then I named the van after him because he was the coolest guy. He was like a seven year old wood worker. He lived in like a role very small town in Vermont. It was so excited about the van and lived in the van and Sedona the year before. He was just super amazing. So um yeah, So I bought the van and then I got it the inside and put a bed, a sink, a heater.

I have a van that was all about three or four grand and then how many miles did you get the van four with? When you spent a little biodometer has been broken since I got it. It has six Yeah, but it was broken when Carl, the previous owner had it as well, So we have no idea. Well isn't that scary though, because you know we were talking earlier that Carl could die and he won't die, but like he could die. It's funny too, because I had the

transmission go out and I brought it. I brought it to the shop and the guy was like basically told me to scrap the van because it's like the building the transmission is worth more than the van itself. And I was like, did you see the inside though, And so I showed him that I live in it and stuff, and it was like two thousand dollars to fix it,

but that was like a one time fix. And my transmission I have a three year warranty on it and two thousand dollars added on too, Like the seven thousand is still what is it like dollars less than a sprinter van. So I could fix the transmission every year for like for forty years in comparison to buying a sprinter van and having bills. I just don't know cars that well. So is that is that logistically possible to just keep building the transmission and then the car literally

will never die? Yeah? They have like they sup up old old cars and make them run again. It's just you just have to keep fixing it. When of one of I guess when something dies it's basically either the van or the car isn't worth as much as fixing it, or they can't find the problem, so that not finding the problem would be the only issue. But I maintain it. That's kind of the nice thing about those the older vehicles is they're less, less electronic, and more mechanical, so

they're easier to pinpoint the problems with them. Um. Yeah, but michell before we let you go, because we need to let you go. But one of the one of the most common questions I got asked about the van is is what kind of advice I would have for people?

And I always struggle with that question because my situation is very different than a lot of the people that are inquiring about what advice I would have for them, especially because most of people inquiring are are women, and I feel like women in the van life community or minority right, Like it's about it's predominantly men um and you kind of we're in a unique situation or not not not so much, but you like pulled yourself up

by the bootstraps essentially and put yourself into this lifestyle. Um, whereas I kind of I had just a kind of a different approach to it. So what kind of advice would you have for the listeners, like they said, they're they're predominantly women, and and the ones that are interested in maybe getting into van life, what advice would you have for them to make that transition or that leap

or uh anything before they would fully dive in. So before I get into that, I do specifically remember someone asking me the hardest thing about van life and I did respond dating, which is so funny now to think back, because it is it is more difficult, I feel, like to date, like finding a bathroom in a shower, and like carking is easy. Like it's really easy in my opinion to live in a van. Some people would say not, but um, yeah, dating is probably the hardest part, I

think because it just gets weird. But like you said earlier, it's not like you're focusing on day anyway. So it's if that's the hardest part, it's not that hard because exactly make it a priority and it's fun. Yeah. Um, but so as far as advice, um, I car camped with an ex boyfriend of mine before I got the van. So he had like a four runner and we would sleep in the back and so I got experienced with him and knowing how to car camp and feeling comfortable

and that sort of thing. So like, as a woman, I think a lot of people are just afraid, like Jared's afraid to live in a in a van and yeah, so so as a woman, that's like even you know more. I don't want to say that it's more scary, but no, I definitely, yeah, I mean it's it's a little bit

scarier if there's no doubt about it. Yeah, So I would say maybe doing it with someone like even do it, Like if anyone wants to come for a week road trip, I'll show you how to do it, you know, like I'll show you where to park and where to feel safe. I never park in a place where I don't feel safe. Um, And I think just going for it is like the big one and knowing that it's not going to be as difficult as you think it is. Doing a lot of research. I washed a lot of YouTube videos, but

it's really it's really not that difficult. You just have to like feed yourself, find a shower, and find parking. Those are like the three things that are like different than your normal living in an apartment and stay warm, depending on where you are. Yeah, following following, the weather is good, but I have a heater, so I have yet to install my heater. It's since ampen meaning to do. But I agree with you. I think it's just something that you need to just do and then decide later

on whether you think it's uh, it's for you or not. Yeah, yeah, and that's smart. Like no, if you feel uncomfortable in a situation, like I, don't get out and get into my van too much once I've parked. I always park if I'm in like a city or in a small town, a park near a nice park with nice houses. I

don't park in in what seems like dangerous locations. I very rarely park by myself with no cell service, just so that I have that extra I have family members that follow me uh on my phone to know where I am at all times. Is there is there anything at all? Is there anything? Is there anything at all that you regret doing or not doing? Uh, as far as my builder like, anything at all? Anything in general about the van or the lifestyle you've chosen. No regrets,

no regrets. No, I'm not no, Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I feel like everything that has gotten me to this point has happened for a reason. So I feel like it's all been good and it's all been extremely fun. I was really happy that I did it by myself for a year. Like now I have Kira traveling with me, I'm traveling with more people. But I was just kicking it alone, meeting new people, going to

festivals bet or like music concerts. You can't really do that with COVID, but I was doing things by myself, going to restaurants by myself, doing computer work, learning how to use my tripod and take photos and all this stuff. So it was like really fulfilling to learn new things, do something independently, not relying on anyone else. That was Yeah, that's a it's a big recommendation. I yeah, you're killing

it too. Um well, So for the listeners out there that want to follow along with Michelle, be sure to checker out on Instagram. It's Michelle dot Werence with two ease at the end of Lawrence, Yeah, everything was taken. Why don't you just DM Michelle dot Lawrence and be like, YO, give me this this uh this handle? Oh, I don't know. I feel like she's got it. So and now you're Lawrence with two eas Anyways, all right, Michelle, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it. Uh, and

hopefully our vans will cross paths one of these days soon. Again, thank you, Michelle. Yes, nice meeting you too. All Right, everyone, welcome back to help I suck at dating and we are in the final segment of Labor Day edition of this podcast. Anyways, I don't know what I'm saying right now. I'm just speaking words that come to my brain. We've got the whole group of dudes at your disposal, we have emails, we've got shared's dating terms, We've got so

many dudes and owns things to be answered, questions. Uh, I'm just gonna stop talking now and hand it over to Jared. I think that's the best for everybody. So we have some dating terms over here, like we promised earlier, and then Michelle so kindly agrees to this with her presence. That was a great segment. She was really really cool. I'm glad that uh you brought her on. But the first dating term and curious if you guys have any idea what this possibly means. Hopefully we haven't talked about

it on the podcast. Before you guys know what mooning is, And no, I don't mean pulling your pants down. Uh, that's the only definition of mooning I know is when you pull your pants down. Any guesses over there, Easton Mark, what could mooning be in the dating world. I'm gonna guess it's when you're so into somebody you're mooning over them, so like, you know, you are fawning over them, like you can't see anything but them. Unfortunately, that is incorrect

Eastern Any guesses. I think it's a shortening of honeymooning, like the honeymoon phase, like you're you're just you're seeing things through rose colored glasses. You're ignoring some potential faults or red flags. Oh that's such a good guess. Unfortunately, not the correct one. Mooning. This is the correct definition on zeus dot com. So please take this with a grain of salt. Is someone texting you too much? That's usually when people moon, And no, I'm not talking about

pulling down your pants. Is so someone your backside mooning? Someone is putting your phone on. Do not disturb when someone calls you so named because oh it's so named because of a little half moon icon on your iPhone. The example is I can't handle all of Jake's text right now. I'm going to moon him, akut him on do not disturb. That's pretty funny. I'm curious if people are getting mooned right now listening to this. What about monkeying? You guys know what money is in the dating world.

Before we jump to monkeying, I do want to say that I am always on mooning mode. I'm always mooning everyone. My phone is never not on do not disturb the moon guy. I am a big mooning guy. And you want to know what I'm just gonna share a quick story before we jumped to monkeying. Is this actually came to bite me in the butt? Not too long ago, maybe two or three months ago. I was getting out of my car and I dropped my phone in the middle of the street, and I went back up into

Kalen's apartment. Was we ate dinner, was sitting there. An hour later, I was like, where's my phone. I haven't seen my phone in a while. Uh, And so I started freaking out, and I tracked on Kalin's phone, and it turns out it's like, you know, a mile away.

So someone picked up my phone and walked away with it, uh, And so I started texting and calling him, and eventually I got through to him and I was like, hey, like, I think you have my phone, and this guy was like super uh, super helpful, and I was like, yeah, here I am, come meet me and you can get your phone. And so I was like, cool, kail, and I'm gonna take your phone. Go get my phone. But since my phone was on mooning mode, I called this guy like fifty times and I was like, this guy's

blowing me off. He's gonna steal my phone and cash in on a big payday. But the phone, the phone calls just weren't like illuminating the screen or anything that. And so it took me like three hours to track this guy down and eventually I did. Um. So that so mooning, as great as it is, I might come to bite you in the butt. Sometimes, gonna stop mooning. No, I still moon to this day. I'm just gonna be more more more conscious of where I leave my phone.

You know, Dean moons himself monkeying and he guesses what monkey could be in the dating world. I think it's a shortened form of monkey branching, and it's going from partner to partner as monkeys do to trees. That's what exactly what I was thinking to see. I think it's something different. I think it's um you know, you know, the great apes have a practice of um picking like bugs and things out of their partners, like back in their hair. I think it's some kind of intimate exchange

like that. I think it's it's a very deep level of intimacy. I love how much you looked into it, but unfortunately you're wrong. While we're on the while we're making outrageous claims too, I'm gonna say that monkeying is uh some weird like fixation with monkey tails. And so what you do is you make your partner put on a tail that looks like a monkey tail. That's monkey wow. I mean, that's exactly the way it is. Dean Mark

is correct on this one. When it comes to dating, monkey means bouncing from relationships to relationship without having time for yourself in between monkey and can lead to repeating old patterns and developing bad habits when it comes to the type of people you go out of. The example is Aaron, stop monkeying and give yourself a break from dating for once. Yeah, And we don't like monkeying, Especially on this podcast. We always encourage people have to take

some time for themselves. Figure that you can't love someone else until you love yourself, and you can't love yourself if you're always monkey in. I couldn't agree more. Do you guys want one more? Should we get to emails? Look? All right, so this one is our bombing? Our bomb bombing? Oh, Dean sounds like he knows this one. No, I'm just trying to think of what are bombing? Because the letter

are bombing? Yes, of course, of course. I think what it means is when you tell someone over and over again, how how how real they are. They are so sick of being called real, but you keep our bombing them. You're dropping out our bomb on them about how real they always are. It's like, stop being real and just be like, you know, just be a little fake for

a second. Okay, okay, interesting, Mark Gee, I'm trying to think of like inappropriate word that starts with R that they might be abbreviating here, and I can't come up with one. I'm gonna say it's um it's as I know you spelled it that way, but it's a tweak. It's when somebody's always saying, are are you here yet? Are you okay? Are you? Are? You got at me? What's going on? Nice? That's a good one. That's a good very annoying. I get that, I have. I'm sorry.

I have two guesses. I know this is allowed. Two guesses. One is, uh, someone who's always interested in a certain job that may start with an R. That's something I was thinking about. That's okay, interesting interesting answers here. That's the race car driver, radio host. But the other idea is, uh, maybe it's someone who's constantly saying like, I'm so ready, I'm ready. I'm just so, I'm so ready for anything,

but they're never actually starting anything. I'm ready, I'm ready to have kids, I'm ready to move in with you. I think East's on it. I think that's the answer. I'm on Eastan's camp now. I think that that should be the answer, because that's the best one i've heard. Unfortunately, everybody is wrong here. Are bombing is when you read someone's message and don't respond, you are are bombing them. Example is Alex is totally are bombing me. I can see he read my text two hours ago. And he

still hasn't responded, leaving someone on red exactly. But but that's not the lingo in with me. If I said that, I'd be like that guy from two that guy is So if you texted us that, we would totally would have our bombing, all right? So should we get to emails? Yeah? Lazy. As a question, she says, my friend's boyfriend of a little over a month with dming a girl on Instagram and flirting with her. He also told her to come out to l A. My friend found out, she broke

up with him. Our other friend says, why he wasn't cheating? They were only talking on Instagram. We say he was cheating on her. Would you say he was cheating? And do you believe wants a cheater always a cheater? Uh? To answer the first part of the question, Yes, he was cheating on you, maybe not physically, but definitely emotionally and definitely planning to cheat on you physically if he

hadn't gotten there if he went to Los Angeles. Number two to that question, wants a cheater, always a cheater. I disagree with that for obvious reasons, but that's just my take. I don't know Jerry what do you think. I'm pretty much on board with you on both ones. So, like cheating to me is kind of well, it's it's not the same. But like you know how there's different

stages of murder. There's premeditated or there's you know, um, you know we're getting charged for second degree second exactly right. There's also different levels of cheating. So like, I do feel like this falls under the cheating term even though it's not physically cheating, Like it's kind of like, you know, uh, second degree cheating. If you will, no, no, no, no, I just I'm sorry to interrupts you. I disagree with you. I think if this were a murder, this is premeditated murder,

which is the worst type of murder. This is premeditated cheating, which is the worst type of cheating. But yeah, he didn't cheat yet, you know what I mean? Because but he had planned to, you could still get you could still get arrested for conspiring to murder someone. This guy should get done for conspiring to cheat on his gent. You don't get charged with first degree murder if the murder had never happened. Fair, Okay, I see where you're

coming from there. Conspiracy to cheat, which is very bad, and I still think falls under the cheating label. Okay, but I I do agree, Like I could see the other friend saying, well, this isn't the worst level of cheating, and it's not, but it's still cheating. I agree. Secondly, I absolutely agree with you, Deane. Once a cheater is not always a cheater. People change, people evolve, people grow, people mature. You have to give them, you know, you

have to give people a second chance human beings. Things are not black and white. You know, everything is in the gray. I don't even think it's necessary. Like if you get cheated on, I don't think you owe that person a second chance. But if you date someone that's cheated in the past, that's maybe someone you owe that owe it to them and yourself for to figure out

whether they're still going to be cheaters. And when I think about this, and as we were talking about the cheating thing, I've talked about this before, Like when I was much much younger than I am now, I like got drunk and kissed a girl while I was dating someone else. That's cheating. But that's like in my drunken in in uninhibited state, I made a mistake that I felt sorry for later on. That's like, in my opinion,

a lesser form of cheating. Yea, that's right, And I'm grateful now that my girlfriend can look at that and forgive me for doing that because she understands what I did and why I did it and how stupid it was and however regret it, et cetera. So that's that's yeah, that's what I thought of when you're saying that, and I agree with you. I didn't mean give the person that you cheated on a second chance, But like if someone has said, yes, I've cheated in a relationship before,

that doesn't mean they're always a cheater. It just means that, like you can move on. They were in the wrong spot, they were young, they were stupid, totally, and I hope they also the audience realizes that, you know, we're with the analogies to murder and manslaughter. We're kind of a little you know, joking, let's you know, just I don't

know the pretty grave things to do. That's grave things, but obviously one is far worse than the Listen, if you get if if I get cheated on, they're dead to me anyway, so they might as well be murdered. You know enough. Yeah, but you're right before I say anything else, that's really stupid. Maybe you should be one of the next email or we I kind of want to get Mark and Easton Steak on this too. What

do you guys think? Well, real quick, um, I think women come out more fully formed than men do, and so and age boys and boys in their twenties are stupid and we'll do stupid things and they will realize how stupid that was and figure it out. So yes, I believe that people can change and mature. And also, you don't hear it talked about much, but people who cheat put themselves in a position to cheat. And that's exactly what this guy was doing. He was laying the

groundword repeating. But but like, there is no it doesn't just happen. It's not just an accidental thing. You don't just fall on top of somebody. You set it up. You go, you're on a work trip and you invite somebody to your room, You go to the bar with somebody you work with, you start drinking together. There's usually alcohol involved, and if you start doing that, you are like being in your situation. You're drinking with that girl you ended up kissing her, well, probably should have been

digging with her in the first place. When you had a girlfriend, you know what kind of you start going down the road. And this guy was going way full speed down the road. Yea, yeah, you put yourself in bad positions. But also mark to not under sell myself. You said guys are stupid in their early twenties. I thirty one years old, my friend, and I'm still I apologize that. Don't short s Tell me? Did Easton went away in? I don't know you. I don't know how

he could say it any better than than you. Guys. How about this this guy was? This guy was not cheating, okay, he was just being nice just to a new friend, and I think he should be rewarded. He's a hero. I love the Devil's advocacy. It's great, but you're wrong, alright. From Amanda. My name is Amanda and I'm happily married. I've recently run into one of my exes and I have brought up a lot of emotions and anger when seeing him our relationship and badly and all those emotions

came flooding back. Is this normal? Or how do I let go of everything? I by no means want to hash it out with this guy. I just want to not care anymore about what happened. Jared, what do you think? Yeah, it's completely normal. Like again, we're humans. We have emotions, and we we do smart things and we do dumb things, and sometimes we care and sometimes we don't care. And about X is Yeah, it's it's very easy just to say, oh,

I don't even care about that person anymore. Like you know, it's just like, yes, you're happy, you're married, and that's great, and you've moved on and that's amazing. And I'm sure you don't want any ill will towards this person. But I also don't want you to think that it's completely abnormal for you to see an X and then just

feel weird about it. I mean I I like, you know, Ashley and I just were in Jersey visiting her family a few weeks ago, and um, you know, we went to places where she was very depressed about a guy and she's like, this feels weird to be here with you because you're my husband. And here I was, like ten years ago in this very same spot, crying over a guy that I thought I was madly in love with and so you know, it's it's completely normal and you just have to accept that and and uh be

okay with it. Yeah, I agree. I think it's totally normal to have old feelings uh reached the surface sometimes. But I think what really differentiates uh the good from the bad as in terms of like how you should feel about yourself is if you let those feelings lead to action, uh, And if they do lead to action involving this X of yours, that's when you should really start feeling bad about it, right, Because it's normal to

have feelings. Like Jared said, we're all human, we all experience things, and it's it's stupid to uh say that everything that we've experienced is no longer going to affect us in the future. But if you let that affect your actions going forward, especially when you're committed to someone for us your life, that's when it gets bad. Yeah, kind of like the previous email or you know where this guy that was going to cheat on his girlfriend

put himself in a really bad position. That's what usually happens. Like you have to kind of have that same mindset with this. Don't put yourself in a bad position like you're gonna have. Yeah, you're gonna see your ex and like, all these emotions are gonna come flooding back. But then you have to just move on with your life and realize you're happily married and look towards the future and don't dwell on the past. Don't like stalk this guy on social media to see what he's up to and

then like think about reaching out. Don't just don't even put yourself in a bad situation like that. Like, just accept the fact that it's okay that these emotions came running back to you, and then you know, look, look towards the future, you know, with the person that you're happy with right now. This is very Tanya rad advice I'm about to givet but I think it could already like it. Write this guy a letter, write down everything you want to say, get it all out, and then

destroy the letter and do not send it. I like that way of getting it all off your cheft and everything you would like to say to him, but without engaging him, which would be weird, without bringing him back into your world again, it's all weird. Just do it, write it down and maybe even symbolically, if you've got a safe way to do it, burn it, And there's a symbolism there of getting it all out and then letting it all go up into the air. That's such

good advice. Why has Tanya never been on help by second? Dang? Would it? Basically he's got a small glimpse of air and we saw how great it was, So yeah, I mean, I would it be helpful to talk about it like with a friend or something like, like just so you can get it out in a better way. Or do you think like you shouldn't bring anyone else into this at all besides her favorite podcast? I well, the favorite You can always bring it to your favorite podcast. Obviously

we're an open door here, but I do. I think it's a great idea. Like you know sometimes you know, not that I can't talk about things with Ashley, but I can't talk about them as extensively or as in detail as I want to that I could with like one of my closest guy friends, you know. And she actually just experienced that. She hung out with my sister and one of our really close friends. They went to the beach and I went golfing, and she got to like she said, she was like it was so much fun.

Because we got to talk about like x is and boys and just like you know, talk about dumb stuff that like I just I can't talk to you about. And I'm like, I totally understand that, Like I you know, sometimes I'm sure if I saw an X, I'd want to just like vent about it for thirty you know, for thirty seconds, and I can't do that to her,

so I would talk about it with a friend. I think your advice is valid, Easton, And it's it's always nice to hear from a friend about why that person is your ex and they usually know the best liston as to why they're ex. Right, It's always good to get it that way as well. Um sweet, Well, you guys, I feel like that might have been our most successful email response segment ever. I think feeling good about it. I feel pretty good about it. It was a pleasure

to be a part of it. That just means Mark east and you guys need to involve yourselves with these emails every single week. So you've just added another checklist to the old job. Sorry about that. There's no doubt if there's if there's one good thing to come from this whole COVID pandemic and having to zoom in for these podcast is we get to see Easton and Mark a lot more than we I guess had eventually started seeing less and less of them in studio, So I'll

take it. You know. It's like the small victories that we have to learn to live with. And I think it's just it's it's only good for the Help by Syco Dating podcast. They were becoming too big for our podcast, but now with COVID they're forced to zoom right back down to earth. Hey, listen, we're gonna we're still gonna win that People's Choice Award this year or next year. I don't remember when we said we were going to

win one, but we're going. We can't account this year. Yes, and when we win it, Mark in Easton, I We'll probably start doing this podcast three or four times a week, so hopefully guys get used to that. Anyways, that's gonna do it for this week's episode of Help I Suck At Dating. Thank you guys all for listening. Big thank you to Michelle. Be sure to follow her on Instagram is at Michelle dot Lawrence with two ease on the end of Lawrence UM. Big thank you to Lizzie and

Amanda for emailing in. Hopefully we were able to help you guys with your questions. And of course, what is Mark holding up over there? East and I were both holding up our People's Choice Awards. People's Choice? Yeah, I mean we're all look at that. You guys both have it right in front of you. Isn't that nice? What do I have? I have a Slowie Kardashian candle and

I've got this Starbucks cup. But hey, I'll tell you this time next year, we're all going to be able to hold our people Choice Awards up to the zoom video camera. Big thank you to all you guys, Jared, Mark Easton, Thank you guys for being part of the podcast. Thank you to the listeners. Be sure to tune next week, where maybe we will suck just a little bit less. Follow help by Suck at Dating on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to podcasts