Three's Company

done with Klin? The longest road trip I've ever done with Caitlin. Uh. We did a South Dakota drive that was like hours from Los Angeles. That one really sucked. Oh, it's so bad. You know, if you if you're able to successfully have a great road trip with someone, they're usually the one. I wouldn't say that any of them are great. I would just say that they're all different shades of uh uh, just normal boring driving. I mean, I would be careful though she's she's driving right now.

You have to be nice to her. She's your life is literally in her hands. It's very rare to see her driving. I'm very appreciative of her to step in take the reins while I record this podcast with you guys, because I was worried I was gonna be even later than I usually am. I was like, Caitlin, I have to get us here by this time. But then I had to go there's this rock in in Tahoe Lake that I really wanted to jump off of naked, and I did it. But because of that we are now.

You know, I was twenty minutes behind schedule and I had to have her step in and take the reins and drive us to the well. We do have some very special guests that are coming up later on the podcast. We have Ian, Jenkings, Alan and Jeremy. They have a new book, Three Dads and a Baby Adventures in Modern Parrington and Parrington. Why can I not say that word paring.

Holy crap, it's been a long day. But they are as you can tell from the title, they are a throuple and they're raised two kids, and they talk about their experiences with that parenting. Uh. It's it's an interesting story, so definitely tune in later on. But first, of course, Dean, you and I have a lot, a lot to talk about, so we asked you guys on Instagram yesterday, what is something that your ex gave you that you just cannot

get rid of? Because we talked about this before and I told you that there's a binder that my ex gave me that my dad found last summer when he was going through all the storage in the garage and he's like, well, do I'm gonna throw it out? And I felt guilty and I was like, oh, don't throw it out, like I I remember how much hard work that was. And we just kind of I was like, just put it back in storage and I don't want to see it, but I also don't want to throw

it away. Um, Dean, do you have anything that of an X that you know? Like, Ah, I have, but I can't throw away. Uh. Well, the first thing that you said, the first thing that came to mind when you said that was Taylor for the longest time had an Air Force shirt that her ex gave her a long long time ago, and she would it wasn't just a shirt that like sat in the bottom of her dress. She would like wearing all the time. She heard all all the time she weared to like sleep at night.

And I'm like, why are you wearing this guy shirt all the time? Yeah, she wants to defend yourself. Um, she yes, Okay, yeah it was a good sleeping shirt. And but but it was just one of those things where it's like she's wearing air for all the time, and I'm like, are you wearing your episode? Yeah, but now I sound like the over bearing boyfriend that's like your ex quoyfriend's shirt away. Um no, now she's told

one of my shirts that she's sleeping every night. Yeah, but I'm sure Klin, did you kind of get Did ask Calin if she liked you getting jealous? Um? Dared ask if you like when I get jealous? Never never think um in terms of what I have when I next ever gave me that I can't get rid of them, I don't think so. I try to like detach myself from a lot of things. So not really a thing that I can think of. Do you you have that bind or does it actually have anything from any exes? No?

Not really. She did have roses. So when we first got together, she said she saved all the roses that she received. Now, some were from me from Paradise, but they were also some from another guy that she was on Winter Games, with which I was not too happy. I understand why she saved the roses. Was like, you can't have those roses anymore. You got tossom, and I think she ended up tossing them. She only kept the roses that I gave her, So how do you how

does she preserve the roses? And I think I remember keeping my first couple of roses and they like, they got gross and disgusting, so she dried him out somehow. I don't know she knew what she was doing. I tried to keep the roses, but then they just smelled a high heaven and like you, they just it was disgusting, so I threw them out. I still have a date card though. I still have a day card written technically written from Caitlin, but she didn't write it though, well,

I mean it says from Caitlin. I'm you know, it's obviously whoever writes those day cards off the show? But how do you not keep that? You know? It's in my bed? I just I it's in a draw somewhere. I actually found it when we were moving and I showed Ash. I was like, holy crap, look at this, and it was from my new York one on one. You could sell it as like a piece, as like a work of art. We were thinking the same thing.

Uh make a little dough on that. You know. I'm sure someone paid like a hundred bucks for a day card from the Bachelor. Well, anyway, so we did ask online, what is some of the things that your X gave you that you just cannot get rid of? Uh? You know a lot of people not gonna lie said anxiety. Uh, trauma was another big answer. Another one said their virginity. Uh well you know, yeah, you can't get that one

back ken you. Uh their iPhone? Um, somebody said that they still have photos of them from fifteen to twenty years ago. That's a good question. Do you throw out photos? Like? All right, here's here's a digital as question. Did digital digital aged question for you? Do you delete pictures of your X on social media? Yes? Or no? Dean on social media? I think I did the I think so, I'm pretty sure I did. I was just like, whatever,

that's in all chapter. What I don't like is and it's funny because I have I have some really good friends who have recently just gone through breakups and what iPhone or Apple whatever? He is doing lately. Is they're saying, like this this memory from two years ago, and it's always like a cute photo of you and your analex girlfriend, and you like have to relive this trauma that you experience on regular Like you're kind of trying to get over this breakup, but your phone is not letting you

get over it. So like, in that sense, absolutely you should leave. I mean the photos on your phone. Um, I just went back and deleted all my photos up until twenty nineteen. This is everything because I needed a free up space on my computer. That one is a little challenging to do because I was like, what if there's like some good diamonds in the rough here that I wanted referred to later. But then at the end of the day, I'm like, what's the point having Like

what is the purpose are these serving? So I was just like, real, But there was a time I remember what when I think I went on The Bachelor at I can't remember if I untagged or deleted photos of my ex girlfriends and them, um, just because I wanted to protect their privacy a little bit better. Um, but I'm pretty sure I've scrubbed my Instagram of all the pictures of any of my exodus. Yeah, well you're saying earlier about Facebook. What you're saying earlier about Facebook reminding

you of past memories. I feel the same way. Facebook is now becoming like that friend you have that always says the wrong thing in front of your new girlfriend, Like if like the guy that you're you know, you're hanging out with your new girlfriend you just started dating, and like one of your old friends, Like, bro, you remember like three years ago when we ended up going home with those girls, and you're like, dude, shut the

hell up. That's what Facebook is doing now. It's like bringing up memories of like, oh, look at that, that's me and my ex girlfriend as I'm standing right next to my wife, who's not the same person. Facebook, get the hell off here. Yeah, definitely, you definitely get like I have those friends that station they're not supposed to say or like shouldn't be saying. Well, I think I might be going through a dead spot. You guys, you might lose me on on the zoom here, Oh you're

in and out. Well, hey, on the bright side, we're ten minutes outside of our destination, So Jackie, lose me. It's only gonna be for at most ten minutes. It could be worse. They'll be fine. I'll be able to carry the show for ten minutes. All right? What other responses? Do we have? An STD that's always the worst one, right there? Have you ever not to get to uh two into detail? Hair? But have you ever had an SDD scare? Dean not taking not to get two into

detailed he says before, I mean, yeah I have. I'm not afraid to admit it. I did once in my early twenties and then again in my still early but slightly later twenties. Yeah. I don't know if I ever had like a full on scare, but like, there's definitely moments where I'm like, I'm even though you know I I did the right thing, I used protection, it's just like I'm I'm still paranoid enough to get checked out.

Uh and luckily knock on wood. Uh, it was all, it was all, it was all good old text messages. I delete my text messages. Do you delete your text messages? Yeah? My around audibility, so they delete every month of every month. Old message deleted every month. What do if you have,

like I don't delete Ashley's text messages? Because those are like, you know, it's I would want to keep those from memory sakes, Like when we first started dating, after we went through this weird time obviously because we were friends and then we started dating. So it was like that weird flirtatious time where I was like messaging her about Panera bread because I was just trying to figure out something to start a conversation. I'd like to go back

and look at those text messages. What was it, what was your what was your tactic? What did you try to talk to her about? The broccoli cheddar soup? I was just I passed I was doing. I was like, it was so stupid. I remember texting Tanner. I was like, I feel awkward texting Ashley, what the hell is wrong with me? And He's like, well, bro, now you've come out with your feelings. It's like that new puppy love, that weird phase where you're just trying to talk to

her one another and start up a conversation. And yeah, I was passing a Panera bread and I was like, I need to like stay in contact because you know, she may have been dating somebody else at the time, but I needed to be like I needed to keep reminding her like, hey, I'm here, I'm here, I'm not going anywhere baby, and um so I texted her like, oh, I'm craving broccoli and cheddar soup, and then I sent it. I was like, I'm such a freaking idiot. Why would

I ever say that? That's what does that remind you of? There is like there's an episode of the Office where Darryl's like trying to flirt with the girl he works or something like that, and he goes, I'm getting my ice cream on and I was like, what kind of game is that? That's very similar? You're like it, and it's like, why would you text someone that you know?

That's just like the thought that you have that then passes on a couple of seconds later, you know, But hey, that's that's you know looking back, like you said, like you're saying, is it's romantic and cute because of how it ended for you guys? Yeah, but if it didn't end, well, not be a romantic and cute would just be awkward.

I wish I could go back to old text messages where I'm trying to like flirt with girls to be and like, I'm sure there's like just like endless messages back and forth about nothing because I just don't have the balls to ask someone out or like actually make a move. So I'm just like keeping the conversation going as long as possible until it comes to a point where it's so awkward that I'm finally like, So, like,

you ever want to hang out or not. You don't have to if you don't want to, but like, if you have time, if you eat, you know, we could eat together. I think that's endearing. And I think a lot of girls I think that's endearing too. And I think it actually kind of helps build a solid foundation or if or when you eventually do get to hang out with them in person, you know, because then you kind of like have this background back and forth it's

like banter maybe some inside jokes, uh. And so I think it's I think it's helpful at the end of the day. Yeah, I think it's quite nice. Another one of the responses that we got about something and X gave you can't get rid of this kind of fits right into your story from earlier. One was a jersey and the other one was a hoodie, so you know, sometimes no, no, no. This is a response from one of our listeners and they just don't want to give that hoodie up. You know, hoodies are expensive, man like

prty bucks. You get a nice hoodie, keeps you warm, why give it up, especially if it's a jajeric one. My question is, like, I wonder if Klin's ex boyfriend ever like looked through his dresser and I was like, oh, I wonder where my favorite cotton T shirt is? You know, like poor guy doesn't have his favorite T shirt on him anymore because it's crazy ex girlfriend stole it. You know, would be really funny if he was looking on your Instagram and you posted a picture of Kalin in the sweatshirt.

I I did post a picture of her wearing because she once because she wore a skydiving or something like that, and I posted a photo of her at the skydiving drop zone and she was wearing it, and I just I don't know. You're right, he might have son seen it, um, but at the end of the day he probably thought it was the coolest thing ever. I'm not gonna lie I would have now, I'm sure I don't know what the relationship is now. I I don't know, all right,

what else have we got here. Uh, toxic toxic tendencies. Huh. Toxic tendencies is another answer that we got something your ex gave you that you can't give back. Do you have any toxic tendencies that an X gave you? Any toxic tendencies that the next might have given me? I think my first girlfriend that I was like over heels

in love with cheated on me a lot. Uh, And so for a long time I had a lot of toxic tendencies and being like uh, not like presumptuous, but like overbearing or like stressed out or anxious up that was being cheated on or something that you know, I've worked through it. I don't think that toxic trait carries over to my present self, but it was definitely something I had to do with a lot of my like late teens, early twenties. Did you ever accuse her of

cheating and then she was not cheating? Um? After that first girlfriend? You mean no, like during the first girlfriend, were you? Yeah? I guess right after the first girlfriend, after she's like traumatized you. Did you ever accuse a girl of cheating and be like I knew it and then she's like, Dean, that's my brother, right. I think that's probably why I was traumatized by the first time, was because I confronted her about it. I was like, Hey, what's the deal, Why are you cheating on me? And

she was like, I'm not cheating on you. I was like, you literally have a hicky on your neck right now, Like I'm looking at your hickie and she goes, oh, this isn't a hickie that my pillow preased weird on my neck last night and it left this mark. And I was like so young and dumb and naive, and I was like, okay, that makes sense, and then like eventually my friends are right, oh, yeah, that was bad. Um.

But later on I don't know. I think I don't think I ever like projected it outwardly, but inwardly I was always kind of like, you know, pretty toxic for myself about that that possibility. But that's the one I can really only think. But I don't have any other And do you have any toxic traits? Okay, not how toxic Aalin? It's a good question. I asked you in if I any toxic traits? And she just opens her eyes. Why her head yet? Um? What about you? Jared what

toxic traits have you taken over training? Honestly, all the good traits I have, I I credit my my ex. Uh, I don't have like toxic. I'm trying to think of like someone specific a toxic tendency it I got from the next um. I can't think of any Like I only had one really long term girlfriend before I started. I went on the show and then obviously ultimately dated Ashley and she gave me no toxic If anything, I gave her toxic tendencies. It was very bad, I feel really,

I mean I was I was a good boyfriend. I'd like to think knock on wood, but like there was definitely one time where she planned like a mini vacation for us, and it was kind of we were definitely broken up at this point, but still together. It's like

that awkward phase, the worst phase of them all. And if anybody's gone through that long, excruciating breakup, you know exactly what I'm talking about, where like the breakup last six months and it's awkward, and you see each other and you hook up and then you're still broken up and you're seeing other people, but then you're still texting each other and it's like, are we friends, Let's try to be friends, and of course that never happens. So

I was during that awful phase. And then she like planned a little vacation kind of because her family had a house in Black Island, but she wanted us to like stay at a hotel l another night, and I said I would go, and then I totally bailed on

her when she was already there, and I felt horrible. Granted, truth be told, I couldn't get out of work, but also truth to be told, I never tried taking the day off prior to being scheduled to work, so it was definitely my own fault that I felt terrible about. So hopefully she didn't gain any toxic tendencies from me. Yuh, so you don't think you have any toxic traits apparently though, Oh me, I have tons of toxic traits. But they're from my own, you know, my own psycho being, not

somebody like, not from somebody imprinting. I'm just I'm I was born, this this psycho human being that Ashley decided to marry. So I was I was gonna say, because I do know I think my most toxic trait, uh, But you're right, it wasn't placed on you from someone else.

I think it just is something I've popped it on my own, and it's I always expect Kalen to be able to read my mind and know what I'm thinking, and if she which if she doesn't, if she's not able to do that, which of course she's not able to do that because no one's a mind reader. I then get upset with her or not being able to treat my mind. Um. And I think that's definitely my most topic trait as a partner. Yeah, I have that trade to you know. I don't understand women can do

everything but they can't read minds. Come on, now, I don't buy that. They definitely read our minds, they just choose not to go. They just choose to go against whatever we want, even though they know what we want. That's what I'm convinced toff. I don't know if I agree with that per se, but uh, let's go through a couple more. I mean a lot of them are like clothing items sweat pants, Um. One is fear of rejection, UM. Another one's condoms, well, you know, practicality, uh, pictures, debt, debt,

what kind of X left you in debt. That's sounds horrible. I mean I can see that. I can see that too. I won't say who it is, but there's definitely someone who uh uh that ash and I know that dated someone who might have been like a little bit of a mood shure, not intentionally, but they were just kind of going through a little bit of a struggle bus and I think they left us a little bit in debt. Um. Who is it? Is it a family friend or a

bachelor person? No? No, not a bachelor, not a bachelor person. Um, but no, I'm teasing. They're they're wonderful um or something. Nick. No. Nick was very gracious and he let me live for free in his place for like five months, which is very nice. He still holds it over my head though it's been three years. And I gave him a little bit of money and I gave him my friendship. Isn't that good enough? I lived with the man, you know what I mean? That's that's rent enough. You co created

the Brochiler or whatever the heck were calling that? Oh yeah, what was that thing? The the the bad chill, bad chilling, right, Honestly, when I go back and watch those so for anybody who's listening to this podcast right now that doesn't know. Uh. Dean and I did this did this YouTube thing with Nick Viles, Me and Nick and Dean were we recapped.

It was Becka Koufferin's season of The Bad Bachelor Bachelorrette and we did spoofs called the Bad Chiller where we woud dress up as the contestants and were dressed up as Becca and and do a funny read, you know, two minute recap of the show. When I go back and watch those, I mean they're high entertainment. It's good

stuff in there. Yeah. Yeah, I think you, uh, that's really gonna be even when you become as big of a movie star as Tom Cruise, I think we're gonna be able to look back at that series and kind of, you know, understand that that's like the genesis of where you got your start. Oh totally. The only reason I'm gonna get cast in a Mission Possible eight is because of Nick Violes Bad Chiller. Um. We do have some great guests coming up. Like we said before, we have

Ian Allen and Jeremy Uh. They have their new book, Three Dads and a Baby. They're gonna talk about their relationship what it's like parenting, Uh, in a throuble, what it's like just being in a throuble. Funny story, I told us on the podcast. My neighbor are former neighbors, used to be in a throuble, and uh, they would argue all the time, but they were very much in love. So I hope, I hope they're doing well. But anyway,

we're not talking about them. We're talking about Alan, Jeremy and Ian, and we're gonna talk to them right after this break. Welcome back to help I suck at dating. Of course, I'm Jared and joined by Dean, and we have three very special guests who are joining us via zoom right now, author of the new book Three Dads and a Baby Adventures in Modern Parenting. We have Ian Jenkings, and we have Alan and Jeremy. Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us today. How are you We're doing great?

Thank you? Of worse, So I want to talk to you guys because obviously you have your new book Three Dads and a Baby, So Ian, Alan, and Jeremy, you are in a throuble. So Ian, I was wondering if you could talk about what exactly a throuble is for somebody who doesn't know. Yeah, sure, a throuble is just kind of like a couple. But there's three people here.

And honestly, when people meet us, if they come over to our house, it sounds exotic, But soon after they get to know us, they realize that we're a family like any other. And we make dinner, we have guests, we take care of our kids. You know, we watch television occasionally. It's pretty ordinary. Actually, yeah, just you guys are a normal family. You have two kids, Piper and Peter. If I Piper and Parker, yeah, excuse me, half an approaching too, and they are delightful and they are also

delightfully napping right now. That's while perfect timing to record the podcast. I just gotta say, it's it's funny. The fruity and slip of Jared the super super fanbok is misstakes Parker's name for Peter, because I was gonna I was gonna ask if that was what was going on sound Spider Many. I mean, I might be a fan of your friendly neighborhood Spider Man. A little Peter Parker never heard anybody um so alan um. I wanted to, you know, talk to all three of you. So, so Alan,

who started the relationship? Did you guys all meet at the same time? We're two of you together and then uh, you know, then you guys formed a throuble. How did that, um turn into the relationship that you're in now? Yeah, we we didn't all meet at the same time. So I've been with Ian for eighteen years and we've been

with Jeremy now for about nine years. So yeah, Ian and I met when we were in medical training, UM a long time ago, and got together and stayed together and uh, you know, we it was mostly Ian's dride, but we had over the years and impetus kind of just or to maybe open our relationship. And of course, you know, I was raised a fairly kind of a conservative environment, and it was something that I was like, I'm not sure I really had to wrap my mind

around what would that would mean? And UM, gradually just kind of became acclimated to the idea of trying to sort out what are sort of the social mores and expectations that make made me resisent versus what are the potential pros and benefits that could come from it. And so it was sort of like baby steps to working there, working towards there, and then you know, we met Jeremy about nine years ago, and Jeremy and I instantly hit it off and we've really actually just been a threable

ever since then. So it's definitely something where if you had asked me, you know, twenty years ago, UM, when I was in my early twenties, would I ever imagined being in a threatle I would say that is crazy, that's insane, That's not something that I could have envisioned myself. UM. But I like to think, you know, I'm forty three now, and at this phase of life, I think sometimes we

have expectations for ourselves. UM that can cause us a lot of disrupt distress when they're not met UM or you feel like you're kind of you know, not on that path. And what I've learned is that often what life hands you and what evolves in life is better than any expectation you could have dreamt up, you know. So uh, for me, the reality of our relationship is is great. It's it's richer, it's fuller. We have kids now,

which I wasn't sure what was going to happen before. UM, And so for me, UM, that the I think the moral of this story is kind of being having openness, um and really thinking about your own expectations and how that's either helping you or maybe hindering your in certain areas. Examining that really helped me over the years, kind of wrapped my mind and just kind of be open to it. And so it was something that just evolved pretty naturally. Jeremy,

what about what about you? I'd be curious abou your perspective then, since you kind of were the one that came in nine years later. Yeah. So you know, I was also raised really conservative. My dad was a pastor from Montana. Um, so, uh, accepting the fact that I was gay it was hard enough. Uh. Never never thought i'd be in a throuble. But um, yeah, you know I met Ian online. Uh, and we're talking on a dating site, and um, you know, I was kind of I'm always cute and he's a doctor, Like I'm feeling

good about myself. And at the end of our conversation, he was like, oh, well, my partner and I would love to meet you. And I was like, oh, I'm sorry, I just misunderstood. I thought you were open to dating. And he said, oh, no, my my partner and I opened to the idea of dating someone else and I was like, oh, I'm really not into that. Sorry, that's just not really my jam. And he said, oh, that's okay. Well, we're always looking for new friends, um, if you just

want to be friends. And so the next day I and I met just to make sure that we were real. And the day after that, I came to their house for dinner and we actually called out our anniversary, like we basically were together on UM. So you know, what I say is it's not for everyone, but if you are the right temperament, you know, it really works for us. It's an amazing regulationship. We've been together in gay years, like a hundred eighteen years. So yeah, it's it's it's

been great. I had met one throuble prior to meeting Alan and Ian that just where I was living in Hawaii and they were on vacation there, and they were super They're like actors on Broadway and really dynamic and really open about like, this is our relationship. So I kind of had a you know, I knew what the relationship kind of looked like. Uh, and I think that would be a little bit more open to it. Yeah, Ian and Alan, you guys were in the relationship for

nine years. So what are some pros to be to being in a throuble compared to being in a couple. Well, there's a long list, but I I like to say that I find it unlikely that any two people are going to be a perfect match for each other. And so I have learned amazing things from both of these guys. They teach me and enhance my life in different ways.

And there's just like activities that I might tend to do more, you know, they're interested um or Jeremy's more interested in, or that Allen's more interest it in, or that we all are interested in, and it's just like this really great balance. It's just like an additional perspective. If there's ever like you don't really fight, but if there's ever like a disagreement, you know, we're having a conversation, then there's a third person there, and it's like a

three party judicial panel. There's never a tie. And and someone can be like, hey, and you gotta check your bs, like you're being inappropriate, you're being defensive, like you're in the wrong this time, And I have to say Okay, Um, you know, I see what you're saying, and it's sort of like helps us in a way. Um, you know,

to have that additional voice. Um and I have we have kids, so it's amazing having two partners to help out with that and again teach me different things aboutout parents and they have to take great care of the kids. So it's just for me, it's been like a blessing. There's more communication acquired. Um, but like one guy is great, two guys is awesome? Why stop at two? What? What

can we can we go more than that? I don't know if that or the communications still the family calendar gets really complicated all yeah, Oh I gosh, I can only imagine. I'm curious. You guys ever just get tired and or fed up of having to like explain your your situation, your circumstances, your relationship anything like that. Like I feel like at some point it would be a little exhaustive, but I could be wrong. I'm curious. Um gosh, this many years into it, No, Um, it's you know,

if we meet strangers, I guess. Um. But once we thought, oh this, we want this relationship to to be real. We wanted we wanted to go somewhere we're willing to take that risk and that chance. Um, then we made a commitment to just being open about it in our kind of day to day lives with our family, with our friends. M just you know, uh, it's akin to

the process of coming out all over again. And so you know that can be a big barrier to I think people being on it honest and then living kind of unauthentic their authentic selves, authentic relationships with people, and it can be really emotionally exhausting. So I think we already knew from our own coming out process some just being gay like that's we're not I'm too old to live like that again, that's not going to happen. So this is working for us. That's the stability and security

that I need. And if someone else likes or it doesn't like it, you know, it's like take it or leave it. So that has been really helpful where it's not like we're navigating all the time. Who knows, who doesn't know? How are we gonna do this? How are

you talking to do that? So you know, most of the questions just tend to come from superficial interactions you're at on vacation or you're kind of meeting some new people, and everyone has some level of curiosity, which I think is totally normal for encountering somebody in a unique relationship. But for the most part, I'd say that's it doesn't usually get too start hireson because our universe of our family, our friends, you know, our day to day life here

in San Diego, people know. So it's not something that I'm managing to that, you know, to that emotional level. Yeah, absolutely, now, And you said something I really liked where you talked about commitment. I think one of the most forgotten things in a relationship is commitment, because everybody says, well, the most important thing in a relationship hip as communication, And of course, yes, of course communication is extremely important relationship.

But I find that the most important thing in a relationship is commitment, committing to your partner. And I love that you said that no matter whether you're committing to some one other person or two other people, like you're creating a relationship, whether you're in a couple of ruffle like you guys are in a partnership together. Um, and that's pretty cool, that's pretty special. And you guys are

all parents which is very exciting. You have two kids, which is ian what you wrote about in your book. So what is it like being three parents together raising two kids? You know, people sort of wondered, like, how do you do that? And I come back and I say like, well, how do you do it with less help?

That's my big question. People were like, oh, you know, there's like immediate jealousy for most of our straight friends when they realized we had extra hands on deck during like the early baby months, and they're like, oh, I can't believe you had two spouses helping you. And I'm like, no, no, it gets better because um, the mother of our children stayed with us for both of those newborn periods, so there's actually four adults pitching in to help with a

kid and all taking turns overnight. So no one was ever really tired at any point, which is totally amazing for having two small kids. So it is totally fantastic. That is to me like the biggest thing that sort of stands out, And some people are like, well, how do you manage it with three different voices? We talk about stuff, you know, we talked about like, hey, what are we going to feed the kids? And allow them.

Are we going to let them watch television? What are our values and how are we going to transmit that? How do we handle a temper tantrum? And we just have a conversation about it. And like I said, these guys teach me amazing stuff every time. So Alan is a psychiatrist, he's done training in child development. Like he's an authority sort of on the patter, and he gives us great ideas for making sure our kids grow up

like mentally healthy. Um. Jeremy's like a nurturer. That's like his job is to take care and raise the animals, including primates, and that's what we do at home. You raise primates. So I'm like, fill me in. Guys, guys are the best of both worlds. That's awesome. So Jeremy then question for you then. So needless to say, all three of you guys were on the same page about kids from the get go. Was there any type of

like convincing that had to go on? But was there any type of like nudging in certain directions from any one to any other person? Yeah, I mean I think we were, um, we actually were all a little bit nudged al and I had um wanted to have kids, but you know, it just seemed prohibitably difficult. And then we actually had some friends um offer us there leftover embryos, and um, so we actually started that and unfortunately those didn't take, so then we ended up making our own embryos.

But um, yeah, I mean definitely it's the same conversations that I would imagine everyone has. Um on, you know, this is gonna it changes your life obviously, upsets everything that was kind of what your day to day was. Um. One thing that always kind of flabber gas every gay person that I know that has had kids is when people say, oh, you know, they're not gonna be good pair inson and they can't handle this. But you know, every gay person who has children has really had to

do it with intention. You're not getting accidentally pregnant like those kids are you know, the most wanted kids in the world. So um yeah, we you know, we we all had to talk about it obviously, just like everyone else, and Ian probably needed the most kind of gentle gentle nudging. But um but we all you know, are very happy we did it at this point. Yeah, And I think it's probably not dooling different than many relationships where one

may have a stronger desire than the other partner. And I always wanted it to have kids, but I also Ian was open to it a little bit more different, and I just thought, me, personally, I'm not having kids within a different person. And when Jeremy, when Jeremy came in the mix, you know, he wanted kids, and it just sort of shifted that balance. Um, and I think we all thought, oh, I think I will actually like this, and we've been surprised. I mean, Ian I loves being

up here now. And so it is a good example, you know, like another relations where someone could be a little bit on defense and different. And it happens anyway that kids, and it's you know, they end up being great parent Oh totally. I hear all the time, like my friends say I don't like kids, I don't want to be a parent, and then they become a parent

and they love their children. I mean there's just something different obviously, as you guys have experienced between you know, playing with your friends kids and you know having kids of your own. Obviously, Um, and it's really cool because you guys, so I just want to make sure I get this right. I'm so sorry, Piper, your firstborn was the first child ever to have a Polly family listed

on a birth certificate UM, which is quite incredible. Yeah, as far as we're aware, these things can happen on sort of a small court level, So there could possibly be people that are just we're just gonna say it's the first time position, but fair point. Uh So, I guess as as three guys in the throuble, would you, I mean, of course you would advocate it, But do you think that this is something that will consistently start happening further? Do you think more and more people will

be open to the idea. You know what, maybe there isn't just one person out there for me. Maybe there are multiple people out there for me, and if we're able to communicate enough, we can be in a committed relationship together. Yeah. Absolutely, I do. I learned a lot about this writing the book, because you know, we just wanted to have this relationship and then we wanted to have a family. We weren't trying to make a point

or be famous or anything. When I was writing the book, I learned more about this, and UM found a research study where they interviewed like younger people and found out that more than a fifth of them have been in a relationship where there was an agreement and it wouldn't be monogamous, so like a consensual nonmonogamy, And and that's

now when nonmonogamy is kind of frowned on. I think when more people are aware that it's an option and you can be respectful and honest with each other and have some kind of you know, non traditional relationship, more people will want that and see that there's benefits to them and of partners to have it UM. And there's

lots of changes that are happening in the world. So up and down California and the West Coast, we know that lawyers and judges have discussed our case UM at like judicial conferences, and so they're all aware of it, and it has now served as precedent, so other families can sort of seek that, probably on the West Coast at least in California. And we know that there's also

laws that are changing. So Somerville, Massachusetts became a place where polyamorous families were respected and have UM legal standing, not marriage, but you know, some recognition there, and there's movements to pass similar legislation in other cities, including around the Bay Area to start. Um, so that's happened. And we know that there's a throutle in Canada that also got a Polly birth certificate about two years after hours, So I do think we're going to see more of

this in the future. That's great that I love what what what Jeremy said too, that you know, there are no accidents or surprises. It's a very intentional process, intentional decision making. And because of that, the children are going to be well taken care of, well like well loved more so than you know, you can imagine anywhere else too. So I can definitely see it happening more and more.

And I think like even just the concept of throubles we've we've discussed on this podcast a few times are starting to kind of become more and more mainstream too, So I think it definitely is something that's um gonna kind of keep coming around as far as I can tell. Yeah, Ian, as you said, you just wanted to be in a happy relationship and have kids, have a family, like that's

what everybody wants. And so thank you so much for you guys coming on and talking about your experiences about your book that just uh, Ian that you just wrote Uh Three Dads and a Baby Adventures in Modern Parenting, which is available now on Amazon. Uh it just got released, correct. I was released on the ninth of last month, and you can get an Amazon, Barnes and Noble or bookstore Dot or lots of places. I just want to do a brief pitch for this. It's been kind of terrible

year for everyone. We haven't been able to see people. There's been lots of bad news. Everyone's put under a lot of stress. It's kind of a funny and hardware story at the end, so like enjoy it. I think we all need a nice little happy story right now. Right. Um, So, once again, Jeremy Ian Allen, thank you so much forgotting for you guys, coming on and taking the time. We really appreciate it. Thanks guys, thanks for having us. All right, welcome back to help I Suck a Dating. That was

a fantastic interview, very interesting, very interesting stuff. Dean is still almost at the airport right now, um, so hopefully the pilot will hold the plane for a little bit longer. I mean, it's help I Suck a Dating. I'm sure he's a big fan and we'll be willing to uh stall the plane for our podcast, right, I think. So A question for you off topic from I'm sure what you're about to get us into. Have you done the vaccine yet? No? Not yet. I wanted to U in

Rhode Island. It's gonna be open to people, I think everybody, like starting April sixt or something like that. Have you, um no, okay, don't know. I've been trying. We're on like all of these waitlists and like you know, if a place has extras that they're gonna throw away, then they call these people. And we have we know friends that have gotten them through that same process. But we haven't been called up for the for to be a bat yet. But yeah, no, my mom is scheduled to

get her first dosage tomorrow, which is great. My dad's already vaccinated. I want my mom to get vaccinated. Those are obviously the two most important, um, just because they're older, so and then hopefully I can get you know, Ashley is a little wary about taking the vaccine just because we're trying, and I think, you know, more studies have shown that that it doesn't affect fertility, or it doesn't

affect a pregnancy at all. So I think she's leaning more and more towards taking it, but I'm gonna take it. Um nice, Well, we have Ben's h baschetor party in a little over a month too, so it'd just be nice to, like, you know, be fully vaccinated before we go off and do that. I'm definitely trying to get fully vaccinated before we go to that. I know, dude, if we get COVID in Mexico, we have to quarantine in Mexico for two weeks. Yeah, I mean, like, quarantine

in Mexico for two weeks. Thing doesn't sound that bad in my opinion. I just like, you can't leave the room, oh right, right, right, it's a little bit different than being in Mexico. Yeah, it's not like we're just hanging by the pool with COVID. You know. Um, that's a good point. All right, Well I did. Uh. So we don't have any emails, which is, come on, stuck, army, what are we doing here, guys? You gotta send some emails. We love emails. It's it's Dean's favorite parts, my favorite

parte What the email is? I'm gonna be honest, you guys. I love Jared Mark East and Becky everyone that works on this podcast. The only reason I even bother showing up every week is because the emails. And this week, I like, I honestly might as well just not even showed up. Um, So I would like to keep showing up. I would like to still be you know, engaged in this podcast because I love the podcast, because I love the email. So keep emailing us. Please give some juicy, juicy,

crazy goss to talk about and discuss. Email us at I suck at dating at I heart media dot com. I'm gonna I'm gonna plug this probably a few more times. I suck at dating at I heart media dot com. Email us your dating stories, your questions, your scenarios, whatever you want. We want to hear all of it. So email us, please, please please. Before I stopped showing up

for work. Um, so, seeing how we don't have any emails, I found a really interesting article on Zena dot com because the headline was when at virtual dating with body language tips from a former FBI agent. So an FBI agent is going to give us tips about how you can read your date and these are signs that your date likes you. So if you read your date's body language. This is a way to decipher whether he or she is interested in you. Apparently, someone who is entranced entrance

by another person will tilt their head toward them. That's a way to show someone they like you. So, Dean, if I tilt my head forward like this towards the camera, apparently I'm really into you. Nice. I mean I I have picked up on some of your physical cues before, um, you know, kind of about the way that you feel towards me. So it's good to get that reaffirmation through this expert. Yeah. No, it's good because this is about virtual dating, you know, which is like the new norm, bro,

the new norm. Absolutely, And it's funny because it's pretty easy to pick up on social I'm sorry on physical cues in person, but you're right, it's way different when you're forced to do it over. Yeah, that's good to know they're leaning towards you, I know. So Navarro says, we only expose our next to people were really comfortable with. So apparently someone who is comfortable with you will tilt

their head towards you. Uh. Some some people may lean their whole bodies towards the camera, which means they're really into you, they might be like ready for marriage at that point. Frequent and lasting smiles also show that your date is off to a good start. So if they're smiling, obviously, that's that's obvious, right, If they're smiling and laughing, you know the date's going well. And and then he goes on and says people who are interesting each other are more likely to pren p r e n am I

an idiot? Do I? I don't know what that means. I've never heard that word before. Pren mark do you know what pren means? You're the most intelligent one? I feel like in here, Becky's pretty smart too. I think of it as like a like a special grooming thing. But it's usually used in like the animal kingdom, Like I think of animals preening themselves as a mating ritual. What I look up the definition? That's what first came to mind. Okay, he he, I should have continued reading.

By the way, Riley is on this, and Riley is very intelligent. Everybody's smarter than Dan and I. That's pretty much the point I was making. Anyway, he goes on. He says preening behaviors included fixing your appearance, like touching your hair and straightening out your clothes. Okay, so if your date's a little fidget fixing their hair, you know, making sure their share the shirt looks good, that means

they're into you. That's a great sign. So we're gonna say, leaning towards the camera, exposing the neck, laughing and smiling and fidgeting, like fixing the hair and making sure they look good, fixing the shirt, all good things. Would you agree, Dean, I don't want to. I don't want to take anything

away from this. Uh, this very intelligently written article is none of the stuff like obvious, Like I don't think anyone really needs to read this stuff to know that it's it's like true, you know, like it just sounds like such such like a obviously to me. But I agree, But you know, sometimes we forget about the obvious. So these are all these are signs that I'm about to read that your date is not into you. You know,

they're just not into you. So obviously not all virtual meetups end with your date falling madly in love with you. So one sign of person is not feeling the love is if he or she furrows the Glabella the spot between the eyebrows. Okay, so we're like my unit brow lies. That would mean like I'm I'm I'm really like going for like my my Batman look. You know, you furrow the eyebrows they go down. This will happen, especially if the other person is saying something that's really dumb or stupid.

That's not attractive to you, all right, So if somebody has that, like everybody knows that look right where like the eyebrows go down, it's like the look of shock or you're like, what, yeah, Dean's doing it right now. So Dean, if you do that on a virtual day, it's not gonna work out between you and I. Can we just take a step back and think or like you started that, we didn't have to worry about this. So glad I was actually thinking about that the other day.

A buddy mine's single, and I'm like, good god, you poor thing. Like that just sucks right now. Not only can you not meet in person, I mean you can meet in person, but you obviously take a little bit of a risk if you're both if you're not vaccinated, and then now you have to read physical cues over a camera. I can't read physical cues. In person, I would be the worst data right now, I would be

the ultimate sucky dater. To make matters worse, I don't even like hanging out with my single friends, especially like in the in the COVID era, They're like, let's go out, let's do stuff, and I'm like, no, no way, Like why would I want to go out and do something to like risk my health? A and like so you can like go meet girls. I don't want to. I don't want to be part of that. No, I'm not

gonna do that with you. So like, in addition to how sucky it is to be single, I like, I like, I'm I'm not like avoiding my single friends, but I'm definitely seeing them a lot less. You know, it's just because you're in a relationship. And I don't understand why people want to go out to dinner so late. Like some of my friends are like, hey, let's grab dinner. I'm like, okay, yeah, let's go out because there you know, Ashley can call him, it will be a thing. They're like,

all right, I made a reservation at eight. I'm like, a PM, you want to go to dinner a PM? I'm can, is there a six thirty opening, like, what are we? What are we doing here? Like I plan on. I want to be back in my house by nine the latest. You know, I gotta get it takes a little while. I want to settle down and be under the covers by ten thirty. What's your skincare routine? How long does it take you at night? Five second? I don't have one. Unfortunately, I don't even wash my face

before I go to bed. Is that bad? You don't wash your face before you go to bed at night? Well, I washed my face during the day, like time. I washed my face every day. I just don't watch it before I go to bed. Oh, I have a horrible, horrible story that I After I did it, I was like, I probably need to share this on help I second dating, and it's so bad and so gross, but it's just it's part of it happened to me recently, and I need to share. It's a part of who you are.

That's what we're all about here, So we all know. My hygiene is a little lack luster. I want to say I showered two three times a week tops, three times tops two two most three times. So the guy who washes his body two or three times a week is busting my balls about not washing my face twice a day. That was the joke. He didn't pick up

on it. So that keep that in mind, right, And I've kind stop shoving cue tips in my ear because I keep seeing all these you know, bad articles come out about how it's could be damaging all that kind of stuff, and so I'm just like, oh, just like, let my u X grow and let me let the ear wax b the uax. Dude, if this is a story about you pulling out like a lot of ear wax, I'm gonna throw up. Well, so flashback actually because this

is a kind of an important bit as well. When I was going to treatment for my hip, I was doing a lot of hyper barracks stuff and you're getting put into like simulated multiple atmospheres, so like you know, your your white blood cell count raises unimportant. They do ear exams before every single one of them, um, and every single time I talked to a doctor, Hugh goes, yeah,

you're fine. You got a whole crap ton of ear wax in there though, every single time, and a doctor looked at my ear aft said anyway, So I took a shower, my one, my one weekly shower. I took what was this on Tuesday or Wednesday, I want to say, And I was like, you know what, I haven't shot the cute top of my ear in a while, so

let's go ahead and see what's in there. So I shove it in, start moving around, and all the sudden, everything in that ear becomes like way more muted and quiet, and I'm like, what, did I just broke my ear drum? Something right? Something badges that happened. And then I started like digging again, and it gets get more and more. And what I was doing was I was shoving ear wax into my ear eventually and just clogged the whole ear canal. And I was like, oh crap, that sucks.

Let me see if I can clean out my other ear then and I'll just focus on fixing this other year. And so I started you my other year, and I did the exact same thing. And so I'm sitting there and I'm like, I it's like I was like totally brown listening to the parents, you know, like it was so so, so bad, and so I started freaking out and I'm like, Kalin, we need to have like some

at home remedies to pick this out. So we like got warm water, um salt water, put it in the ear for like five minutes, started like wiping it out. A little bit was coming out, but it didn't fix anything. And then this is when it gets grossed. And then I was like standing there and I was like, what can I do? Like what could I get in my ear to get on the other side of this ear

wax to push it out? And I remembered Dr Chris Strandberg Cupcake from your season, who were both good friends with Uh, he's my dentist and he, uh last time I saw him, gave me a water pick and the water pick is phenomenal, a water floster for your teeth. I used it every morning and every night before I go to bed, and I was like, you know what,

that might just be the thing that I need. And so I set the intensity to like middle intensity on the water pick, put the thing in my ear hole and I just started like moving it around, and eventually the water got behind all of the big wall of ear wax that I just kept cramming in there with the with the Q tip, and it pushed it all out. And I kid you not it was like a thumbnail size thing of just big that ball at ear wax, and oh my god, it's I could like literally hear colors.

I was, I became this like super started exactly. And then I was like, and I had to do to the other ear too, so both ears. I used the water pick to excavate. I'm not joking, like, uh, like a stack of like five dimes put together, like stack on top of each other. That was kind of like the density of each ball of ear wax that came out of my ear. It was maybe the nastiest thing

I've ever seen come out of my body. I mean, sorry for that whole long explanation story, but I mean that's a good I've always wondered what I should do besides a cotton swab, because people tell you don't put those in your ears. So I'm sure I have a build up of ear wax. I just don't know how to segue now. I'm not gonna lie. I think we should just wrap up the podcast on that. Honestly, the rest of this FBI investigation in virtual body language pretty

you know, straightforward. If your dates looking away frequently or distracted, not a good sign. If they're pulling away from the camera. Not a good sign. Uh. And then apparently some people may also have more tension in their lips and even shift their jaw if they're not interested in the other person. So that's good to know. There's also red flags to look out but look out for. But honestly, I can't think of anything besides Dean's ear wax right now, So I think it's a pretty good time to wrap up

this podcast. Uh, do us a favor if anything weird like that happens to you between now the next week's episode, just take a mental note of it. And I would like to hear you know some weird crazy thing that might have I mean, I might buy one of those what is it a water pick? Water pick? If you don't buy every ears, buy for your gums, because that thing every night I floss and brush and now I'm gonna buy it from my ears water pick and I us listening everything when I do all four things every

morning and every night. I think we should add but for the water. The water pick is not invent for shooting water into your ears and is not recommended by iHeart radio producers of this. It's like it's recommended by me. We should put a disclaimer at the beginning of the podcast like they do in front of Jackass, where it's like these are done by quote unquote professionals. Don't try this at home. Yeah, listen, don't try the water pick in your ears at home. Okay, just bad news, but Mary,

because my gums. They pull so much gunk out of my teeth every time, even after floss and brushing and using mouth wash. They're phenomenal. So get a get a water pick. Report back to me. Don't stick in the ear. We don't want you to sue us because we told just sick water picture unless you get some new wax stuck in there. But that's gonna do it. For this week's episode, I'm so sorry for my my, my surroundings. If you heard any like beeping or revving of the engine,

that's just Kalin driving like a maniac. So I apologize for that. But thank you, guys, Thank you to our guests. Uh, dared, do you want to thank them for Yeah? Of course. Make sure you pick up their brand new their their book Three Dads and a Baby Adventures in Modern Harrington Harrington. Good god, what's the matter with me? Our guests Ian Allen and Jeremy. They were awesome. Thank you so much for coming on, and thank you to everyone who is going to email us because, like I said, man emails

are the only reason I logged in to zoom. Uh. They're the only reason I agreed to do this podcast every single week, So please give me a reason to keep coming to work. I suck at dating at iHeart media dot com email us. I suck at dating at iHeart media dot com, email US. I suck a dating at Iheartdia dot com email us. That wasn't a glitch. I had to say it three times because now you're not going to forget it. It's I suck at dating at I heeart media dot com. And just to be clear,

discounts is showing up for work. Huh yes, Mark, it does, it absolutely does. This is my one, my one weekly obligation. Um. Anyways, that's gonna do it for this week's episode. Thank you guys so much for listening. Be sure to tune next week, where maybe we suck just a little bit less ear wax out of every year. Follow help by Suck at Dating on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to podcast