Thirty, Flirty & Thriving

you guys. Today. We have a couple of guests from the podcast Almost thirty. Lindsay and christ will be joining us a little bit later on. Um. But first, uh and foremost, I think, at least on this week's podcast is this is the first podcast since Super Bowl fifty, whatever the heck it was, Jared, I just want to say congratulate sations on. I know we talked about this on the live and was famous a little bit, but I just wanted to extend my heartfelt congratulations to you.

I know that you worked really hard for this, so um it was a grindalls, you know. I'm just practice every day It's all I could ask for. Really, teammates didn't well, they played well. UM. I don't think anybody cares about my Super Bowl opinions. Unfortunately. I do love talking sports though, but thank you. UM. We did want to talk about, obviously an issue that's going on in the Bachelor world right now, which comes as no surprise,

is the Chris Harrison situation. I know it's kind of weird to switch gears and talk about something that's very serious and important. UM. And I know that we're a dating podcast and we're here for an escape and fun, and I love providing that We're gonna provide it this episode. You know, we have some great guests coming up, and we have some of your emails, and we're gonna talk

about dating and everything that we usually talk about. But I do feel, both Dean and I feel that it's very important that we start this podcast off by talking about the current Cres saracence which ration which, of course, if you are not aware, Chris Harrison was on an interview earlier this week with Extra with our former Bachelor at Rachel Lindsay Uh, and he was talking about a new contestant, Rachel Uh not Rachel Lindsay, but a new one on Matt James season, who has some controversial uh

um things surrounding her. Uh. There was a pictures of her at an antebellum party on a plantation from a couple of years ago a sorority party. She also liked some controversial pictures online confedering, including a Confederate flag UM and UM. Chris Harrison spoke about it, uh, Dean, I don't know if you had an opportunity to listen to

the interview. UM. I did, UM, and it's it's disappointing. Um. You know, Ashley and I have talked a lot about it in the past couple of days and trying to listen uh and learn um and become better, which is something that we've been trying to do for a while now. And so so Jared help me understand because I keep seeing a lot of my friends and peers and people I look up to say that like it's disappointing uh, and you know they're trying to learn from it what

exactly was disappointing about it? And again this is just fully from someone that hasn't watched it or doesn't really like I obviously under say the gist of what's going on, but I haven't watched it myself. So what what what was disappointing? Well, you know, it's a lot to unpack. I would advise everybody to listen to the interview and formulate their own opinions, but also listen and learn to people, specifically people of color, who want to talk about this

issue and subject and in their own experience with it. UM. You know, he in the interview they talk about how UM two thousand eighteen was vastly different than I think. The most disappointing part for me is listening to Chris

just not have the information uh that he should have. UM. Like, for example, he started off the interview saying that, you know, five years ago there was a picture that came out of of of Rachel at at a plantation, and it wasn't five years ago as to was an eighteen, which is obviously a pretty big difference and UM, but regardless, I just I think it was overall his tone and you know, the lack of understanding and specifically talking about race to a woman of color and trying to UM

tell her what he thinks racism is about. You know, it's Rachel has experienced it, and I think in moments like that, UM, it's best to listen and learn. Um. Rachel, I thought I handled her stuff really well in the interview. I thought she was elegant. I thought she, uh, showcased a lot of strength. UM. And UM, you know Chris is a friend. UM that adds a whole, not a layer, because UM, he is a friend. And it's it's hard

um to just you know, say that a friend messed up. Um, but he did and he needs to be held accountable for it. And UM, I hope that this is a learning lesson for us all. I hope this is a teachable moment that we can all um have more conversation around UM, because I think it's needed and for me specifically, like just speaking upon it, like I, you know, I

need to do a better job. Um. I want to continue trying to be as much of an ally as possible and continue to condemn racism and continue to try to evolve or become a be a part of a society that wants to evolve, that wants to be better. UM. And uh, I feel bad for Rachel. I listened to her podcast that I posted on my own Instagram. A couple days ago, uh, saying people should listen to it. But it's it's her podcast on The Ringer, and she just talks about the interview that she had with Chris

Harrison and and she just, um, it's pretty enlightening. Um. And so I really suggest everybody goes to listen to her podcast on The Ringer. Uh, the episode that came out I think Friday, um, And I don't know, I don't know what else to say about it. I really hope that I know, I'm just like blabbing at this point. But obviously, as you could see him, you know, pretty uncomfortable talking about it. It's an uncomfortable conversation to have. But that doesn't mean that we should not have it

because it's uncomfortable. I think we should have it because it is uncomfortable. Yeah, right, all right, all right, here's my take on on everything that I've gathered through my friends and through what you just said just there. Um. Again, I haven't seen the interview. I've seen people's reactions to it, and I understand the gist of it, and I agree

with with basically everything that you said. I don't think it's just it's it's certainly not a white man's place to tell a black woman how she should be feeling out any type of racial issue, right, that that is obvious. But when I think about how, uh there was a social media post or reaction or or whatever from a contestant as little as three years ago, here's my experience, and this is the only thing. This is what I was thinking about. Most of the time that you were

sharing a story. Was when I was thinking about going back on Bachelor Paradise season six for the you know, the fourth time in my Bachelor's stint. This was this was what two thousand two and nineteen. Whenever it was whenever I was about to go on two thousand, I'm Bachelor, I was sure if two nine, yep, that's right. It was probably around like April May of two thousand nineteen, I was considering going back on the show. I was

talking to producers, blah blah, blah, blah blah. I was in China for a week and a half, just exploring China and you know, having a blast. And this was during the whole the whole process of me trying to decide whether or not I was going to go on the show or not. And while I was in the decision making process. Some of the producers, you know, not Chris Harrison, of course, this is this is Chris Harrison.

Is is kind of like a you know, in my opinion, above this pay grade, right, Like, some of the producers would reach out to me and be like, hey, Dean, we found some discriminating things on your social media and I was like, that's crazy, what is it? And they were like, hey, we see that. You. You You know, you said the F bomb uh five times on your friends

Facebook ball back in two thousand and seven. Holy, And I'm sitting here saying I was sixteen years old, and you guys are getting upset with me about dropping the F bomb on a friend's Facebook wall in two thousand and seven. I was like, listen, I'm in China. I can't even get on Facebook. I'll delete it when I get back, but I'll take care of it, you know,

as soon as I'm able to. So that all to say, um, I think the recourse here is if if you're upset about it, which absolutely should be, you have every right to be stop watching the show, like you don't the show doesn't owe you anything. You don't know the show anything, Like just stop giving your participation, your involvement, your attention, and eventually it'll fade away or it'll fix itself. And once it fixes itself, then you can re recontinue to

watch it. But it's like, you know, that's kind of my take on it. Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. I think the rebuttal to that would be for people who who would who criticize the show but continue watching it would be why, you know, I want the show to be better, and the only way for it to be better is for me to hold the show accountable. So by just not watching it would then, you know, um,

just let them continue doing what they're doing. Even though I think the show has been taking steps in the right directions, I also don't want to ignore that. Um. You know, I I this Chris Harrison interview is not good. Watching it was was disappointing, like we said, But I do believe that the show has been trying to take the right steps. Um, and they haven't been succeeding in everything they've been doing. While it's my here's my argument against that idea is, I don't watch a bad show.

I don't watch a show a bad show and think to myself that's a bad show. How can I take action to make it better? If I watch a show and it's a bad show, or I don't agree with the you know, the message that they're putting out there, My way of contributing to getting that show off of you know, the air or whatever way it is just

not giving it the attention that it doesn't deserve. I'm just gonna say, I think people like the people that are They like the show, they like watching the show, They want the show to continue, They just want the show to change. I just to me, it's crazy. Again I I don't understand to the extent maybe, but to me it's crazy. It's like, if you don't like it, didn't stop watching it. If you like it but you want to change, then stop watching it. Maybe a little

pivot and maybe it'll change. It's like, you know, if you don't like something, then just don't give it the attention doesn't deserve, and eventually it'll it'll course correct. If it doesn't course correct, it'll fade into obscurity as it should. Like I don't know, none of us know. And again we are we are two white guys talking about a racial issue. We have no place to be talking about it obviously as you know, you know, you know you

you you can beat that dead horse too. It's like, we are not people that deserve an apology in any sort of way, like you said, it's you know it's And even Rachel when she just so Rachel just spoke after the whole Chris Harrison debaccle happened, she finally came out with a statement, you know, weeks after these accusations, and she even says that in her apology, like this is this is for the people of color who have been offended by my previous actions. And so, like, I

thought that was worded pretty well. It's not for someone like you and I to really judge whether this apology is acceptable or not. It's for people who have been offended by her previous actions. But I agree, like, I think this leads to a bigger cultural conversation that needs to be had, um, you know, Like to be completely frank, I didn't know what an anti bomb party was until this whole conversation came up. I had to google it.

But again, like so I don't know, like you know, I mean there, I'm not gonna lie like I attended a wedding at a plantation a few years ago, and like it felt weird driving there, but I know, I didn't like stand there and be like, I'm not going to this. It was like this is kind of weird. And then there were people of color at the wedding and I was like, all right, well, I guess I don't know, Like I truly just don't know if this is you know, I know that I don't know if

this is a good thing, it's a bad thing. I don't know what the hell you think of it. But you know, I'm not really thinking too much of it at the moment. Uh. And then of course looking back at it, just like someone like Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively, they got married on a plantation I don't know how long ago, but they came out this year and said

that they regretted having the wedding at the plantation. And so I think, you know, hopefully we can grow and learn and have more conversations even if they are uncomfortable discussing this is how we can get better, and this is what we need to do in order to get better. Um, And I really, I really hope that that continues with the Bachelor franchise. And with the world as a whole, right, right, And I do agree with what you were saying. Like as Chris, Chris, you know, I would necessarily call him

a friend. But I like Chris. Every time I've interacted with Chris, I've enjoyed meeting him. I don't think he's a bad guy. I think, uh, from what I've surmised this interview that he gave. Maybe he was a little too like cavalier with his words. You know, who the heck knows. But like like you said, it's like you

want to stand in your friend's corner here. So it's um, but there is no excuse, There is absolutely no excuse for for for any type of discrimination whatsoever, like I mean too, Yeah, And to piggyback off that point, like we want to make it very clear that you know, we condemn racism in any in all forms, and it's deplorable. Um So anybody defending any type of racism is something that we vehemently are against. Yeah, absolutely, But I don't know.

The thing is again, I don't think it's like I'm glad that we can touch on it and talk about it. I don't necessarily think it's our place to you know, like, of course, I don't know, I don't know. What do you think? I agree, I don't think it's our place to really judge whether Rachel's apology or Chris Harrison's apology is worthy to be accepted at this point or if there needs to be more done in order to earn forgiveness.

Like that's just not up to us, you know, like you said, we're too privileged white dudes who I don't really have a say in it. But of course we want to also be good allies. And I know that word has been thrown around so much, but it's but

it's true. You know, we have you know, we've had a lot of we have friends, you know who are in the Bachelor franchise, Katie and Mike and Intation and a lot of people who you know, have to deal with this that you know, we don't have to deal with And it's I just want to support in any way we can. Um. I just wanted to add one more thing before we move on, and that is Chris as a friend and he's a good man, and he announced that he's gonna be stepping aside, uh for a

period of time. What that period of time is I have no idea. I think that he's doing the right thing by stepping aside, but I also know Chris, and I believe that Chris will be better from this. UM. It is a teachable moment. As much as we're throwing that word around, this is really an opportunity for a lot of people to educate themselves, myself included. UM, Chris needs to be held accountable, he needs to do better, and I believe that he will do better. I hope

that Chris is not fired. UM. I hope that we can have more uncomfortable conversation it's like this in the future, because as uncomfortable as they are, they need to happen, as we've seen over the past year. UM. And those are my thoughts. So Chris is stepping aside for a period of time, and UM, I hope he's back. UM. I hope he's better. UM, because we all need to do better. And those are really my thoughts about it. UM. Like I said, Chris is a friend, and that makes

this even more difficult. UM because while I don't agree with what a friend said, UM, you know, I believe that he can be better from this UM true true. Anyways, we have a like I said at the at the beginning, we have got a great episode for you guys. We have the host of almost thirty coming up next um, and then, as we always tend to do, we will jump into some listener emails at the end of the show, so stay tuned for that. We will be right back. Hey, welcome back to help I Suck at Dating. We have

two very special guests on the line right now. You know them from the Almost thirty podcast. It is Christa Williams and Lindsay Simsic. Lindsay Krista, how are you, ladies. Oh, we're good. So excited to be here right around Valentine's Day. So it's just a dream. I know it's the perfect time to come on a Suck Dating podcast right around. We just put out a breakout episode specifically around this time, just to like support those going through whatever transition. So well,

I don't know about your person. Are you both in relationships? We are? Now? Okay, do you have any special Valentine's Day plans for me? So I'm engaged. We will yeah, And I think once you're engaged, you're kind of like, you know, the gigs up, so we'll probably do sweatpants order in hang out. You know, nothing special. I think we used to. We used all of our like intense dating experiences the first couple of years, and now we just like to chill. No, that's the best kind. That's

what my wife and I are gonna do. So I'm gonna cook for. My wife's name is Ashley. I'm gonna cook for. I made a pizza for the first time in my life last week, and I'm gonna make the pizza again for. We're gonna have a bottle of wine. And then she doesn't know this, but of course I'll go to flowers and chocolate and all that good stuff. But it's just gonna be a low key Valentine's Day.

I mean, what else can you do during the COVID times exactly the best though, And whatever I was out on dates, I was like, I just want to be in my sweatpants at home anyway. So now to just kind of cut that and just be home is so beautiful. So I love I love your Valentine's Well, I feel like sweatpants goes right along with being uh almost in your thirties, which is what your podcast is all about.

Tell us a little bit about your podcast. So we started almost thirty when we were transitioning from our twenties to your thirties. And I'm sure a lot of your listeners can relate. It's a time when you just feel like what the is going on? You know, there's so many questions and fears and doubts around relationships, career and

just like knowing yourself. And you know, we we talk a lot about or we talked through the lens of spirituality often and um, astrologically, it's called your Saturn return and so this is when Saturn returns to the spot it was when you were born. And really it's it's helping you to recognize things in your life that really aren't working and possibly not in alignment, and so it's

asking you to get kind of serious. You know. So a lot of people during this time might switch jobs, they might get married, they might get divorced, they might make a big move. For example, I moved from New York to l a during that time, and so, um, you know, we just we met each other during that time, related so much and just felt like, wow, these conversations were having together just super comforting and healing, and so we figured can't be alone and was like, you think

we can start a podcast? And I was like, I'm so down to try. So we did, and four and a half years later, it's yeah, it's become a thing. Uh, well that's great. Yeah, you guys have had super success on it. I think about like my own transition from my late twenties to early thirties. I guess it's probably different for a guy than it is a woman, especially for women that want to have a family, have kids, Like I don't have a biological clock that's ticking. Is

is that a factor? Like I hear Ashley, My wife talked about it all the time, and you know, we were actively trying to have kids right now, we've been married for about a year and a half, and it's there's so much more pressure on women than there his men. I really feel bad. Well thanks, we'll take that when we receive your your sympathy. Um. Yeah. And I think there's the biological element, and then there's the societal pressures.

You know, when I was younger, and I think Lindsay as well, a lot of women grow up and they're like, I want to have kids when I'm twenties, say I want to be married when I'm twenty five and this will be my house and this will be my car, and this will be my husband and etcetera, etcetera. And you know, I'm thirty two and we're just about to get married and we're probably gonna have kids soon. But your life doesn't always end up the way that you

thought or way you plan. So women just feel the pressure to really be the best wife, be the best mother, have kids at a certain time, um, have a beautiful wedding and all these things. So I do feel like women have a lot of pressure. And I think the biological element really plays in for a lot of different women.

But you know, we've had on fertility doctors and people talk about that specific issue around the biological clock and um in just hopes of supporting women who may have issues getting pregnant or trying, because I know that's a really hard thing. Oh totally. My sister. So, my sister is holy crap, I'm third. Okay, she's gonna be thirty five in June. And last December, um so not this past December, but a year ago her and her and

her husban and got pregnant. She had a miscarriage, and then there was like complications, so she had to wait three months before trying again. But the problem with my my brother in law's in the Coast Guard, so he's he was going overseas in November for a whole year, so they were trying to get pregnant before he left, and there was so much stress involved because, like he said, like she was having so much struggle getting pregnant, and

she ended up not getting pregnant before they left. And so there's you know, they're obviously trying alternative ways, but it's pretty intense. But you know what's funny is that I feel like as I've gotten older, you know, we always dread like, oh, getting older. You know, I don't want to get older. I don't want to get older. I wouldn't go back, would you, No, No, I I

would happily leave my twenties behind. But um, it is kind of cool to look back because I think, you know, now in my thirties, knowing how much I've grown, UM, I just feel that much more confident and kind of have that experience under my belt. Um. I was, I was single for seven years in my twenties and just

I was very much sucking at dating. Um And you know, just going after the guys that were completely unavailable, and that was a you know, a testament to just how I felt about myself, um, and my own worth within relationship. And so what made them unavailable? Were they just in other relationships? Um? Pally potentially emotionally unavailable sometimes you don't know, um, but yeah, I more more so just emotionally not there. And I think it was like it didn't it didn't

push me to show up in relationships. So I looked really good. I looked like, you know, the one that was was attentive and connected, and then that didn't allow push me to actually step into huh, I could be doing even better so um. And I'm also like very much a nurturer, so I thought I could like fix them, change them, having fall more in love with me because of that. So it was it was pretty you know, dysfunctional.

But um, after that seven years of being very single, UM, I really realized that that period of time which a lot of women find themselves in approaching their thirties is just incredibly sacred. It's like it's one of those times where you have the opportunity to walk back to yourself. And what I found is that you know in the relationship I'm in now, like, he is so attracted to that me that that knows myself, that is connected to myself, that trusts myself, that you know, is connected to my

intuition and so on. So yeah, I think a lot of guys are attracted. But let's talk to somebody who's not in their thirties, who just joined you want to talk about emotionally unavailable? More dinon reladies and gentlemen, emotionally unavailable? Here we go. Yeah, yeah, no, it's funny too, and

and hello, hello everyone, it's so great to see you all. Uh, it's funny too that that this is the time that I decided to pop into the conversation because, uh, as you were describing that situation where you're dating guys that were emotionally unavailable or unavailable for whatever other reason. You know. Um, I like to think back to when I was in my early to mid to even like early mid twenties. So that's the thing, you know, like twenty six, twenty seven, whatever, Um,

and I was that mid to late twenties. Yeah, he's like yesterday e four. If you're early to mid twenties, you know this week early mid twenties, like twenty six, right early mid or maybe that's you're right early early late twenties is seven. Anyways, that aside um that first night you were just talking about, that's that's me to a t. So I can definitely understand where you're coming from and on behalf of all emotionally unavailable mid twenty

year old men in the world. I would like to apologize for any type of uh frustration we might have caused you at any point. But I mean it sounds like obviously that's uh, that's the thing. I'm curious, Like, yeah, I'm curious looking, but you know, for you to look back at that time, like, what do you feel was kind of underneath that emotionally unavailable nous? Uh? Well, I

think I actually I know exactly what it is. And it's funny because it sounds like it's kind of the same thing that was holding you back for a while until you hit your your thirties or until you turn thirty, was when I was in my mid to early twenties. And I'm just gonna keep bushering out. I'm so sorry. Um, I just I had no idea who the heck I was. I was a shell of myself. I was the person that I thought my friends wanted to me to be.

I was like doing things that were unlike what I really felt because I wanted to like fit in with my friends. And I know that's that might be like a late teen thing, but especially like in your early to mid twenties, I think like, um, especially moving to l A. For me personally, this is obviously not for everyone, but for when I moved to l A in my early twenties, it was like my identity was like partying

with my friends. And that's not an identity, that's not like a characteristic that's not like a you know, a

quirky trade. That is just that is nothing. And so I was like hiding behind this party persona um, and I think that's that is, in my opinion, the biggest reason why I was like emotionally unavailable at that age up until I turned like probably eight, because I was hiding behind this person that was like I just want to party with my friends every weekend, and that's like that's not I mean's it's fun and it's fine and there's nothing against it, but it's like you're just a guy.

Early to mid twenties guys. It's so funny. Like I always felt like like women are dating and we're kind of looking for the partner, we're looking for husband's a lot of times. And guys it's like as soon as one person gets married, like a few guys in the in the circle or in their friend group have to get married, and they're like, maybe she can married, and

then they're like, who's around and we'll get married. It's like guys get married when they see their friends getting married, whereas I feel like women kind of we'll do it whenever they want, or just do it because they're looking for someone to be with. That's interesting, I think for both. I think it goes for both genders because I hear I hear a lot of uh girls, Ashley's friends, so on and so forth who say, like, all my friends are married, when am I going to meet my guy? Uh?

It's interesting because I but I do agree with you. I think guys get married because their friends are doing it. It's not like they want to get married. I I have so much experience with that. Specifically too, is because some of like my best friends who have been in long term relationships will like be um like miserable in their relationships and they're like, well, I don't want us to break up because all my friends are in relationships. And I'm like, well, you don't want to be in

a relationship because all your friends are in relationships. Like, if you're miserable, leave the relationship. I fully agree that. Uh, guys are like very instinctive where they want to like they want to be around the same and page at their other guy friends around. So if they're in relationships, they all want to be relationships that they're all single, they all want to be single. So I fully agree

with that. Yeah, it's interesting too, you know, for for you guys going through that period of your late twenties early thirties, like what was your like what was the theme for you at guys as far as dating? And then how have you learned to like apply those aspects of finding out who you are and really being more confident with yourself to your life. Now, how Dean do you want to start this one? I try to figure out how to articulate it without sounding like a complete

douche bag. Well, well, I was gonna say, of course, a guy in is you know in your twenties. You know, it's like you want to go to the beach clubs and you want to like like, I watched so many movies growing up about like you know, attending parties and hooking up with girls and like that type of lifestyle. Like I wanted to be, you know, stiffler, you know what I mean from American pie, like being the like the life of the party, like you know, cream bikinis

for everyone. Like I was never that guy, but I always wanted to be like that guy. And so I think throughout my twenties, um, even though I still was never that guy, it was difficult for me to to um, to like really put myself out there with a lot of different women. Uh it Uh, I think that was

like what I was going for. And then it ended up being like seven years of just remaining single and never really developing a relationship with anybody and then obviously getting uh entering a relationship with my my wife, which is interesting. Yeah, I think I think forgot well a lot of guys. I'm only speaking from experience, so I

guess I don't really know. Uh, you think you have serious relationships up until you have an actual serious relationship, so like up until I started doing my girlfriend now Caitlin, I, Oh, is thought that like I had like three you know, quote unquote long term relationships that lasted a little over a year, and those were like serious relationships, but I

didn't realize, Um, they were never shallow. And I would never like to like minimalize those relationships that I had because they were very important to me, of course, but like, um, they were in a serious They don't like hold the

campbell to the relationship that I'm in now. And so I think that a lot of guys, you know, they think, especially in the early twenties, like and again only speaking from experience, that like, you know, they have a girlfriend of a year plus and like, okay, this is like

a serious, like committed, committed whatever relationship. Um, And then you don't realize until later on and until you start to like settle down with someone more or less that you realize that the committed relationships that you thought used to have aren't quite as serious as that gives your

perspective at the time like, oh, that was nothing. It's kind of like, to be fair a little bit like The Bachelor, where you sometimes go on this show and and a lot of people fall in love after like two dates and then they look back and they're like, maybe that wasn't love, And maybe I was taking that

for lost, not saying that's for everybody. But we've seen time and time again on the show where people are so immediate to just be like I love this person, and then they look back and like, maybe that wasn't love, Maybe I was crazy. What about what about? Yeah? I was gonna say, what about like a women's perspective on this? Yeah,

what are your themes? Themes for? I think mine is like for so long, I would get into relationships trying to change the person and I would be like, Okay, he's amazing, but he needs to not where polo shirts and khakis all the time. Like I was like, you need to change his style, or he needs to be more deep, or he needs to meet me more emotionally, or we need to go on trips or whatever. The the ideas that I had that I wanted him to be.

I really let those go, you know, in my thirties and with the relationship my fiance that I that I have now when I realized, um, after my parents separated. You know, my parents separated after being married for thirty three years, and I'll never forget. When my mom said to me in the car, She's like, you know, from the day I married your dad, I wanted to change him.

And I was like, oh my god. You know, the whole relationship was really them trying to have these high expectations for one another and trying to change one another. And so in my relationship now, i'd really just try and let him be who he is and love him through that process rather than trying to change everyone because I'm not satisfied or I'm not communicating what I want or I'm really um, just focus on them and what they lack rather than what they really have. I relate

to that so much. UM. But another theme for me was definitely um kind of putting putting the power with whoever I was dating, meaning they decided what we were going to do. UM. I would always just have that be a default. So I'm someone who has a lot

of interests. I am pretty dynamic in the way that I can be, like very expressive and creative and very weird, and I would kind of pull back on all those aspects of me because I felt like if I were to show all facets of who I was that it might scare this person away, and I just felt that energetically.

I was like, I don't know if they could hold this, and so what I defaulted to was, um, yeah, just giving them most of the you know, decision making power and just feeling like they were like in control of everything. And I really I dimmed my light in a lot of my previous relationships and the relationship I'm in now. You know, we've been together a little over a year,

but I've known each other for eight years. And what's been like the most beautiful part is just having him see parts of me that I'm like you and he's like, I'm not going anywhere, so okay, Like it was just shocking to me. I'm like, you're not gonna leave me, you know, you're not freaked out. He's like no, Like I am obsessed with seeing all parts of you, Like, let's keep going. And so it's been really healing because of how long I was kind of holding back on

all those parts. So what changed, Like did you did you have a decision in your head to say I'm going to be myself and then he like they accept me or he won't. Or was your boyfriend? Is he your boyfriend or husband or boyfriend was he just more accepting of it, which which resulted in you being more of yourself. He's just like always seeking the truth. And he could smell my bolt and I was like, oh my god, he sees that, like and he could he

was he was getting frustrated at times. He's like, I feel like you're just you're not like being yourself in certain moments, and like, I just want to tell you that, like you can and if you feel a certain way, you can tell me and we can talk about it. I'm like a recovering people pleaser, so I just don't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable around how I'm feeling.

So it was actually his invitation to just like let her rip, and um, it's been cool because like I see that it actually like makes our connection so much stronger every time those moments happen. In same for him, like I want him to be able to, you know, just like lean into me and like fall apart if he needs to fall apart and you know, express his frustration if he wants to express it and not have him worry about how how is she going to feel if I express myself truthfully? It's like, no, we can

hold each other's truth. It's that it's that thorough quote from Into the Wild with Alexander super Champ. He says, rather than money, rather than love, rather than fame, give me truth. And it's so funny too, because you you were telling that story and I was like, I feel the same ever since I saw that movie, and ever since I was like, super Champs the man h and throw obviously is the man too. I was like, that

is a quote that is absolutely worth living by. And I think a lot of that too kind of comes with like it's almost gender stick in the sense where it's like not even just guys or girls that get into it. But She's like, once you get to a certain age, you're kind of just like I like, I don't care about the frills, Like I'm going to stop

withholding certain parts of myself to please other people. I like, you just want to be yourself and have that person love you and appreciate you for that person, like for yourself,

you know. And I feel like like at a certain point, like because your soul wants that the whole time, and then all of a sudden there's so much dissonance because you haven't allowed it to fully express that, like you just can't take it anymore, and either something happens, whether it's a breakup or a breakdown or whatever whatever, and you have no choice but to like get real about it. In a relationship like that, you know, where you can't

be your full self is exhausting. And I think that's what happens a lot of times, and I think social media exacerbates that, where it's like you essentially are connecting with other people's masks or other people's projections of who they want people to see them as, and it's like, after a while that doesn't feel like real connection, and people are lonelier than ever because we're really connecting with like this fake version of one another and it's it's

supposed to feel like real connection. Do you think social media has helped or hurt dating? You know, I wouldn't. I know that's a very vague question, but think about, like we were talking about this the other day, where when we were dating in our early twenties or even in our teens, like you know, those high school romances, you would break up And Krista told the story the other day, so part of me for telling part of this, but it's like you would have that phone call where

you're like, Okay, we're done, Like this is over. This is the breakup phone call. And you wouldn't like then go on Instagram and see them commenting on so and so's photo or see him or her in a photo of this other person and go down a rabbit hole of what have you? Like, there wasn't that information our opportunities to really go there. Yeah, you used to have to drive by someone's house in order to Oh my god, now it's just a story of my life. Ohio baby, Oh my god, I know how we used to that.

We're like, Okay, we're just gonna drive close to their house. There's another car, like and everyone in Like, I'm from a small town, so we knew everyone's cars, we knew everyone's plates, like you knew everything. Um, but on that

point too. So we had a breakup expert on, you know, last week or so, and she was talking about like our brain on when we're dating and especially after a breakup, and how a lot of times when we have a breakup with someone or when we're dating someone, when we're feeding ourselves with like the social media aspect of it, it's kind of like an addiction where you're like, Okay, I'm gonna get it, like from a photo from them. I'm gonna, you know, see where they're at, I'm going

to see who they're commenting on. I'm going to do all this stuff. And when you do break up with someone or if you're trying to like move on to the next person, you really need to go cold turkey, and social media makes it really hard to do that because it's just so tempting all the time. Yeah. I remember going through some breakups where I would like ask my friends to post stories knowing that my ex was going to see the story, and it's like the most

it's like the most toxic crap too. It's like, that's like a very that's a beautiful thing that you just shared because I don't know, I don't know a lot of them would admit that, but and that's what I think about too. I'm like I was like, in the last time I was dating and I had a breakup, it was like social media wasn't what it is. So I was like doing Facebook albums. I was like, I'm going to take a photo in a bathing student posted

in a Facebook album and maybe they'll see it. And now it's so like immediate with stories and TikTok and all this kind of stuff like that would be so exhausting to keep up with like that, trying to get your ex's attention all the time on social media, like

my gosh, oh my god. I don't know if I'm like myself by a couple of years, but my space anytime, like you were going through a difficult time in high school, or like somebody wasn't responding, a girl didn't like you back, like I would, I would make one of those song profiles. You had songs on your profile, and I'd make it like some love song, and I hope you see this, you know how how much I care about her and

how I'm never gonna find someone else like her. I remember remember AOL away messages, remember like date people see you later, And if you were like in a fight, you'd like put an ail away message on you be like just processing stuff away for a few hours for some preason. I would always be like thinking of you like you never and no one like passively. Yeah you never want to make your a O well away message br like be right back or b r B like no, that was too you need like a movie quote or

song or an inside joke. Yeah. My like, my main all memory is I remember there's this girl that I had a crush on. Uh. And you know, you would like sign on and you would see how many friends you have online and then it would be like thirty online, eighty offline or whatever. Right, Uh, And this girl that had a crush on was offline. And then all of a sudden, I received a message from her and I

was like, how did you just mentioned me? It says you're offline, and she goes, yeah, I've hidden myself online, but I'm still like talking to people that I want to talk to that way people don't like reach out to me. And I was like, whoa this is this is escalating, dude. It's amazing. You could just see like little you in your chair. You're like it was like

it was one of those spinny chairs too. So I would like push away from the desk and like like flipping out, and I'm like, like, you know, you get back to the keyboard, you like precompose yourself, and you're like n you like not Like I was a yearbook that I had when I was home in Ohio. I was like, yeah, the year book, and I don't know why. I was like in seventh and eighth grade, I'm like, so many guys were calling me sexy. I'm like we

were literally like twelve. They're like, hey, sexy, have have a great summer, Hags, And I'm like, why is everyone calling each other like sexy when we're so young? Dude, Hags is everything as well, has have a great summer? Summer? Baby Dared never got his yearbook signed. I wasn't that popular, guys. Thanks for twisting that night. I'm curious with like your layer of being on TV and The Bachelor, like as far as making dating harder easier and then on top

of that, being a presence on social media. This is like a buye interview. Sorry, like we're both no, it's funny. I actually I thought that after you asked the last

question to I was like, this is nice. Um, I'll go first because I I have a distinct experience with this is as well, and for the long time I had like this weird compulsory like, um, I was like super insecure about it, and I thought for a while, you know, like you come off the super reality TV show and you like accumulate, you know, a semi decent Instagram following and then for like a good six to

nine months. I would say I would think that a lot of the roles that were interested in me were only interested in me because they were like, whoa, this guy's got you know, half a million followers on Instagram or whatever it was, And I like developed a pretty big like inferiority complex over I was like, well, am I good enough for them? Or do they just like want me because they think it will like bolster their own and like you know, like a bunch of dumb

stuff like that. Um, that was something that I eventually worked, like I went to like therapy and like figured it all out, and like like I said earlier, to like I just kind of like aged out of that whole thing. But there was like definitely a big, uh fraction of you know, the post experience where it was like, Okay, what like how do I handle this kind of stuff? But I don't know, Jared, what about you? Yeah? I think of course it escalated the dating scene, uh you know,

going on a show and then coming off of it. Um. I think for me it was it was more I got lucky where I got a really good uh edit on the show. Um not to say edit changes your character, but like they only showed all my good parts and never any bad parts. And so I think people had this idea of who I was, and that created a little insecurity to me because I knew that I was

not that guy. You know, I'm born and raised Rhode Island, like at the time, I was managing restaurants, like I made, you know, a very medical class income, and and I you know, I was not rich and famous as people just assumed I was because I was on the Bachelorette. So that created a little bit of an insecurity inside that I never really told anybody because I of course I wanted to be that person that they were looking at.

They were like in awe. You know, I could see how my friends treated me differently after I came off the show, how everybody just kind of got a little more star struck around me. And it was a great feeling, but also definitely caused some anxiety because you know, inside I'm like, guys, I like, someday this will go away,

and I'm I'm not gonna have a mansion. I'm not gonna have a house by the water, Like I'm I'm very much gonna be just the same guy, and I always got scared that people were going to view that as failure. Um and uh, but you know, I mean the the good obviously outweigh the bad. You know. The very limited amount of people get the opportunity to dean

to myself had, so I'm always grateful for it. Yeah, it's like almost like they need to support you guys with like therapy after, you know, because it's it's so much like you have so many projections, so many opinions. You know, your life is changing, your finances are changing, Like you have this whole thing happening to you, and that can be that can be hard to go through, you know, where it's like everyone's like, oh, they're doing amazing.

They were on Batchelor, everything's perfect, this is incredible. They can have any person they want blah blah blah blah blah, and it's like, no, you're still kind of the same person that's still working through these things, but now it's just amplified and you see like the sadness that happens to people when they lose it, because it's definitely yeah, well that's why you see some of the collapses sometimes too but so for you guys, So, on the most

recent episode of almost thirty on your podcast, to kind of tie it back into what we're just talking about, you talked a little bit about how you can heal yourself after traumatic breakup. Right, So, what kind of advice would you have for our listeners? You know, obviously our listeners if you really want the inside scoop, go back and listen to Almost Dirty on on wherever you get your podcast. But what kind of tips would you have for someone that might be going through some sort of

difficulty with a breakup or something like that. Yeah, it was really fascinating to talk to. Amy Chan was our guest for that one, and she wrote a breakup boot camp And you know, one one thing that really stuck out to me that she has done on her retreats for women who have experienced heartbreak was, um, write a

letter of letting go. And I just think like having you know, it sounds kind of cheesy, but like having like a ritual around that is actually like very important and I think it can cut those energetic chords um more effectively rather than just like hoping it goes away. So um, just a few things she recommends to write down is um, you know, writing down your feelings without judgment, So like your feelings around that heartbreak, you know, are

you angry, are you frustrated? Are you just really sad? Are you remorseful? Are you shameful? And not having any charge or judgment around that. UM. She also recommends um talking about the lessons that they Yeah. Yeah, I'm like, listen, I'm thinking about our posts that we posted. Yeah, the lessons that you learned, UM in the relationship. Because you know, if I look back on all the relationships that I've been I it kind of makes me smile because I'm like, Wow,

I learned so much with these guys. And sometimes I'm like I wish I could just call them be like hey, thanks m thanks so much for teaching me this, UM, because it's true. You know, I really I believe. I believe in God. I believe in you know, that everyone is out to us as somewhat of a soul contract and for a reason. And so I think when you're in a relationship with someone, especially a romantic one, there is just some work being done, you know, like however

hard or easy it might be. UM, let me pull up that post. But if you have things to add from that episode. Yeah, my, so with her, it was really interesting to look at the effects on the brain, and I think we talked about that earlier, and what she mentioned was that we really have to do cold turkey with any communication or any um like watching them

on social media or monitoring them. It's best if you just kind of cut it off because your brain has to sort of rewire from the oxytocin that you're receiving

from that relationship. So cold turkey is really the best method. Um. And just before Lindsay finishes, my personal advice is just to really feel the feelings, like just allow yourself to fully be in the moment of your feelings and also see it as like a beautiful opportunity for you to just completely reshape who you are and like come out like swinging, as like the hottest, best version of yourself.

However you want to express that. I've always loved breakups because I'm like, oh my god, now's my chance where I can like create my dream life. I have way more time, I have way more energy to focus on me. I have this like beautiful new road ahead of me that's only mine that I can create this like new life with all by myself. And I would just add to that that letting go letter. I really love this one.

It's this is what I take accountability for, which you know, I think in the moment of a of a breakup or a heartbreak, it's like you don't really want to maybe declare, like what responsibility you have. It's you know, a relationship as a two way street, So what do

you take responsibility for? Um? I think is an important part of the healing to see kind of what role that you played in the dynamic and can also help you as you move forward and also help you as you you know, whether it's in therapy or just do daily reflection or even bringing into your meditation. It's just a way in which I've been able to get to know myself a little bit better. No, I think that's great advice. And I mean I do similar things with

breathing techniques. I've been getting more into taking fifteen minutes out of the day and trying to center myself UM, which is something I think we can all benefit from. But um, anyway, you guys are the best. Lindsay and Krista, thank you so much for joining us today. Unfortunately, our time is up, but we would love to have you back on because I feel like we could talk to you for hours on end. Thanks for having us, Oh my god. Of course everybody listening, please check out the

Almost Dirty podcast. If you haven't already, you can get it anywhere podcasts are now. Krista, I also know that you have a blog. It's Krista. Yes, it's kristin dot com. That old, that old, rusty blog. Um, yeah, what do we have going on? Um, yeah we do. We do

our own separate stuff which is really fun. But within almost thirty actually, for your audience, I'm we're doing a I'm doing a pro gram called the Sacredness of Being Single, So anyone who finds themselves in that season of their life, Um, just from my experience, it was one of like deep transformation, and so I just want to support women. Um, we're experiencing that. I've talked to a lot of them over the years since I released an episode of the same name.

So yeah, we're doing that starting starting in March. But yeah, almost thirty is just everything you need to support you in your evolution. So and then I'm sorry, what was the name of the in the new podcast you have coming out talking. So it's a it's actually a program.

It's a six week program, UM small group where I'm just going to take women through um six weeks of just walking back to themselves, you know, reconnecting and just feeling really really confident and trusting and like where they are in their life, because I think we spend so much time when we're single wishing ourselves out of it and wanting to you know, find that person or feel just more complete, and so I just don't want people

wasting enter the program. Yeah, So you can go to almost thirty dot com and we have more information there as well as on our instagram at almost thirty podcast. All right, great, check it out almost already podcasts, almost already website and the instagram. Everybody go check them out right now. Lindsay and Christa, thank you so much again. Thank you guys, Thank you guys. All right, everybody, welcome back to help I Suck at dating. Thank you for

sticking with us this long. We are going to get to my personal favorite segment of the podcast every single week, the emails. Uh and if I'm not mistaken, we have the lovely Mark Maholnitzky did say that, right, no, but I'll take it. I like it like putting a hole in there. Okay, we don't. We don't need to get into the mispronunciation of that mark. What email do you

have for us? Is well? I like this from Amanda Here, She says, I recently got into a new relationship, but I've noticed that my boyfriend gets very scorem me around the subject of periods anytime it naturally comes up. He immediately changed the subject. The other day, he was going to the store and they asked him to pick up some tampons for me, and he refused. He also will not be intimate with me at all when I'm on my period. Are all guys like this? There was this

something to worry about. How do you guys feel about period sex? And what about picking up tampons and pads at the store for your girlfriend or your wife? I think Jared's got more experience with well, I think both of you guys have more experience with this than I do. So I'll let you take you want to know have you done this? Have you picked up lady products for

your lady? I don't think I've picked them up. I've been with her in the grocery store when when she's picked him up so in in a you know, like a third party kind of way. Sure, Uh, it does not bother me in the least. I'm so over it. It's like, actually, now that we're trying to have kids, like we just have to have some conversations about you know that that that part of the the part of life that women have to go through. And uh there's you know, some shedding and some bleeding and you know

that that's just what happens. And so as a guy, I think I've just become the accustomed to it. Have you guys talked about the mucus plug yet? Not yet, we haven't gone that far. Great something to look forward to at least. Yeah, that's a good tease for you. Um. I don't know if this is a red flag. I think hope. I'm hoping this guy will mature a little bit. He directs me as pretty young. But yeah, I don't think any I don't care about any of those things.

I'm all in favor of everything you listed right there. It's all fine with me. I think will come around. And I'm a little concerned that if he doesn't come around when you do have a baby, what is he going to be in another county. I mean, that's a really serious situation. That's not even close to what you're talking about. So I don't know something to keep an eye on. I don't think it's a red flag. And no, all guys are not like that. No, I would say, like between me and ash like, I'm the one that

deals with Lois. You know, our dogs vomit and poop and all that. She gets like, screw me about that, which makes me concerned. I'm like, are you gonna feel this way towards our kid? Are you not going to change diapers? Let me tell you something. My wife had serious in metaphobia before we had kids, which is the fear of vomiting and you don't want to be anywhere near it. And she warned me, when we have kids, you're dealing with vomit. I'm so sorry, I just can't.

I said, fine, let's fine, no problem. When they become a mom, it all changes because those maternal lens things are so strong, overpowers every other fear they have. So the first time whatever kids puked, she was all over it, took care of it, didn't even think about it. So I think, actually, we'll be fine. That's great to hear. Yeah, so win for you. Please interject if you guys feel differently. I'm curious to hear your thoughts because I agree for the most part, but I don't agree in all things.

Whereas let's say, you know, calin Is is having that that that that time of the month, right, and she's like, hey, I need to go to the story and get tampons. I would be like, absolutely, I'll be there. I'll be back in ten minutes. Whatever, whatever you need. I'm here for you. If you mean le freaking scratch your back while you're you know, you know, dealing with whatever you have to deal with, by all means, I'm right there

with you. But the intimacy thing, I think is it's an okay thing to be a little hesitant, uh, to be intimate while that's going on as well, because while the first thing really only affects the woman all Amanda, uh, and the and the man is just kind of stepping into, you know, provide help if, if, and however he is able to, the intimacy thing kind of includes both of them, and so I think it's it's totally okay for him to kind of be a little bit more um, you know, uh,

not concerned, but a little bit more abrace it to that. Then the other thing, is that wrong to think because I kind of think that in my opinion, that's you know, I wouldn't say I would. I would perfectly like or definitely like say no to anything intimately during that time of the month, but I would be a little bit less receptive to the idea than I would normally be. Well to each their own, I think I also of the opinion that guys shouldn't be turning that down period period,

whatever you can get it. Yeah, I'm thinking if that's made available, you should take advantage of situation. Because I also but for other reasons too, I always feel like it it messes with their head a little bit when you turn it down. Speaking very broadly and generally, I do feel like it. Um, it just seems to im pack more of a wallop when when a woman gets turned down. Guys that used to getting turned down, we're turned down. Our whole lives in that regard. We're used

to it. It doesn't often go the other way, So, you know, but I understand what you're saying. I think that's that's not unreasonable. What you're saying I have no comment. That's good, Oh, come on, comment. It's just like I it's never bothered me. It really hasn't. I've been lucky that it hasn't bothered because I'm sure that it causes, like Mark said, some insecurity, some conversations that need to

be had. I haven't had to have them because, like, it's just it's never been something that I'm grows grows out by. I also have never been inhibited by it.

But I just want to at least make it clear that I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that they you know, they're a little hesitant to jump into something that maybe they're less familiar with, and you know, I don't I don't think that's necessarily as much of a red flag as not willing to pick They're not willing to pick up tampons, that's a red flag, but they're not willing to be intimate is a very you know,

it's a light shade of pink. It's not quite as red it's it's just it's a little bit more understandable in my opinion. That's my take on. Its fair, that's fair, that's fair. Okay, alright, Anyways, that's gonna do it. We don't have a whole lot more time, so we can only get to one email, Amanda, thank you so much for emailing us. We we appreciate it. We hope that helps shed a little bit of light onto the situation that you might be dealing with. UM. Anyways, of course,

thank you to Krista and Lindsay from Almost thirty. Be sure to check out their podcast wherever you subscribe to podcasts, and check out their h blogs as well. Jared, what else do you have for us? My friend? Thank you Dean for you being you. That's all I got. That's all I need. Hey, that's all I got as well. If that's all I need, that's all I got. So let's just let's keep this trained rolling. Mark, thank you so much for your for your wise words. As always, UM, Jared,

you're the best. I will see you guys next week, where maybe we will suck just a little bit less. Follow help by Suck at Dating on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to podcast