Spilling the Chili with Brian Baumgartner

outside northern Virginia. Really, Uh, we have a great episode coming up for you now, Dean, this is a great episode for you. I'm an office fan. I've seen the Office. I really liked the Office. But you, my friend, I feel like you love the Office. It's probably the show you've rewatched the most. How did you have I told you that? How did you know that? Because I know you, I know you my friend, I saw you. I know where you sleep. Oh yeah, I guess. I guess I

probably have shared about on my Instagram or something. I'm sure I've told you in person as well. But I love the Office to a fault, to the point where I sleep better whenever the office is playing in the background, you know, like some people like to listen to the Waves crash, some people like to listen to rain falling. I like to listen to the Office to put me to sleep. And it's so much that I spent like a hundred twenty bucks on the discography so I could

play it anywhere in my van at any given moment. Wow, and I've I'm in the same way. I like falling asleep to either Seinfelder to the local news. It's very comforting. Well, we have Brian baum Gartner on the podcast today. You know him better as Kevin Malone from the Office. He hosts an I Heart radio podcast, the Office Deep Dive, which you can listen to wherever you're listening to this podcast right now, and he talks to all former show cast and crew of the Office see what they're up

to doing now. He just releases podcast with John Krasinski. Uh so, it's pretty awesome. He's gonna be on the podcast later, which is super exciting. Before we talk about it, we do have some hot topics to get to obviously. The first one is Bachelor related news. Just when you thought we couldn't talk anything more about the Bachelor, Oh my god, I just swallowed nice spit down the wrong throat. I think that's got to be like an moment, just when you think we can't talk more about the Bachelor

to death, Jared chokes to death. Holy crap on air too, Sorry about that, guys, who I'm not even eating an apple now I'm sweating. Oh isn't it the worst where you just like it's down the wrong pipe and you start like getting hot sweats? Do you need a second? Do you need a second to collect yourself? Do you have any water nearby? I do? I have a nice lacroix. I'm a big sparkling water guy. I think that says a lot about my character and who I am as a man. It's Lemon Shello, my mother in law, Buffy

just for me. Isn't she so sweet? It's okay, dud, Kaitlin and I love lacroise and bubbles and all those things. And I also got to make note real quick, I'm really proud of you for upgrading your environment this week. Last week you're in a closet. This week you're sitting in a nice office with bubbly right next to year. You're killing it yet again, I'm in my father in law's office. I gotta be honest. I missed the closet, dude. I listened to the podcast last week. I listened back

to it to see how my audio sounded. I think I sounded better with a voice memo in that closet than I do on the mic. And I'm not joking about that. I think my heart should pay me to fly to New York every week to record from that closet because there is something acoustically about those shoes clothing. Who knows, but I sounded so great, So I don't know if it's an upgrade. Don't tell my father in law that it's in a very nice office. I enjoyed anyway.

So the Bachelor, Matt James says that Rachel kirk Conley gave him a quote ultimatum before dating again. So Matt James, the Bachelor from this previous season, his final pick Rachel kirk Conley, they broke up anywayway? Can you just see I interrupt you real quick? Is it Kirt Conley? Kirk Connell? I thought it was kirk Connell. You're right? Is kirk Connell? Damn it? Okay, I just I didn't want you to keep saying Kirk Conley if it was Kirk Cornell. I know,

I don't know. I can't pronounce names, man, I can barely. I honestly don't even know how to pronounce my last name. It's either Haben or a Bon. I've heard it both ways. I can go if it makes you feel I don't want to put you on this, but I just wanted to make sure that where you were doing her the service that week, correct me, please, I need correction. That's why I have a carry on as the Bachelor. His his final pick Rachel, where the girl he didn't propose to.

She had the photos of the antebellent party come out, they broke up. They're back together, so uh. He was speaking to People Magazine shout out to People that apparently Rachel gave him an ultimatum. He said that the ultimatum was the push he needed to fully commit to their relationship. Quote, she was like, if you're going to make this work, let's do it. But if you're not going to make it work, I'm going to let you do your own thing. He said, That's really all I needed. It was an

ultimatum that I needed. It's been great. It was honestly a commitment that we made to each other, uh, that we were going to work on the relationship. There came a point in time were it is evident that my working on the relationship looked different than Rachel's because I wasn't really honoring that commitment that I made to working on the relationship. Didn't you have any thoughts about this? Do you have any thoughts about ultimatums in general? Do

you think they worked? You think people should do it? Wait, so Matt was interviewed and they like, are confirmed in a relationship. Dude, they've been in a relationship like two weeks after the Final Rose. I remember where was I? I I was in Remember when I was in? Where the hell was that Nevada? I don't even remember anymore. We were in a like a VIVACC conference a couple of months ago, and they were spotted hanging out together. This was like two weeks after the Final Rose, So well,

I know. So it's pretty insane because I remember on the after the Final Rose there was obviously a lot of controversy with Rachel and her past pictures at the antebell And party, which I'm you know, came to light and should be talked about, because honestly, I learned a lot. I had no idea what the hell and Antebella party

was um so. But at the time and now in hindsight, I just thought that Matt wasn't I don't know, I just I thought that I didn't believe what he was saying in some parts and how to Final Rose, and now they're together because after Final Rose he pretty much said, hey, listen, you need to do your own education on what it's like to being black in this country. And I can't

be a part of that. Because Matt said that when he's dating someone, he has the intention of marrying that person and and kids, and he's like, I don't know how we're going to explain this to our kids one day, and then two weeks later they're together. So it was like, Okay, well that was obviously something you didn't really mean or you had a quick change of heart. Um And it's really weird that so he wanted her back, but now she needed to give him the ultimatum in order to

commit to a relationship. It just sounds like Matt was wishy washy the entire time, and maybe he isn't ready for be in a relationship. Yeah, I I mean I don't. I kind of remember watching that after the final Rose and being like it was like uncomfortable the whole time for everyone, Like you know, they were uncomfortable, the audience was uncomfortable. I mean obviously digitally there was no audiences

remember him like he was like kind of traumatized. I feel like, so you had to hear that they were together after the final Rose. It's kind of start. It's like surprising, right, It's kind of like, yeah, like almost performative in a sense where we're gonna put on the

show and then you know, keep on dating afterwards. I would be like kind of disappointed if I was Rachel, honestly because and rightfully so, like he kind of put her on blast, don't get me wrong, but there hasn't really been any like I don't know storyline afterwards, you know, like he's like, I'm gonna put you on blast publicly on this platform because you deserve it what she did.

But then afterwards, everything's gonna be fine, We'll just carry on dating like that kind of She's like I feel like I had to take the brunt of it there, don't you think? Yeah, it kind of feels like that he just didn't know what to do with after the final rose and just was like, this is what I'm gonna say about it, and then did a one A

D afterwards. I mean, that's how it appears. I don't know the personal conversations that him and Rachel have had since the show or before the after final rose, if there were any conversations leading up to it, but like, yeah, I totally agree. I mean, if you're gonna tell someone that they need to like he doesn't want to be emotionally responsible for their tears and they need to do their own thing, like, then let them do their own thing and don't get back together with them two weeks later.

Because even if she was the one, even if she was the one blowing up his phone saying I want you back, I want you back, I want your back, like he needs to be the one to shut that down. It's kind of like you know when a friend breaks up with another friend and and you're like, oh, I feel bad that that person was broken up with, but it's also the responsibility of the person who ended up who did the breaking up, to like cut off the relationship because so many times I'm sure you have in

your friend group as well. We're like the person that broke up with someone keeps hanging out them because they're like, oh, well, I feel bad, and you know, I I don't want to hurt them anymore. And it's like, no, you're hurting them way more by continuingly to let them back into your life and giving them hope. Then you would be

if you just cut it off. Yeah. I mean at the end of the day, like they Matt chose Rachel, and Rachel chose Matt for a reason, Like there's got to be a lot of unspoken chemistry that we haven't seen yet, and I think we do have maybe have to give them some credit, like like as you said, you know, Matt was like, I don't want to be responsible for giving someone a black history lesson or uh, you know, it's not my responsibility to that type of thing. And she was like, well, I'm gonna put in the

work and figure it all out. And I mean, to her credit, it's maybe she did do the work and she educated herself and figured it out to the point where Matt was comfortable with it. Uh, And I was able to kind of be like, Okay, you know what, I appreciate you putting that effort in. I agree, it just seems quick, which I obviously, I am not a black man in this country, so I have no say in saying like what is adequate, what is not adequate,

what is accepted as apology, what's not. But you know, obviously it's just a very sensitive time right now, and it's weird, and I it's it's unfortunate, you know that they had to go through this, and I feel bad.

I really feel bad for Matt. I was saying that for a while, like this guy was under so much immense pressure being the first black bachelor, and then you know, even that sit down he had with Chris Harrison in episode one where he pretty much said, like, am I gonna get scolded if I don't end up with a black person? You know, if I end up painting a

white woman? And then you know, obviously the Rachel Kirk Connell photos come out, and there's just a lot for There was a lot of pressure on the Matt and I really do feel bad for him, and I feel bad for Rachel as well because in the relationship, back to the original question of have what are what's my opinion of an ultimatum. I am not a fan of the ultimatum generally speaking. I've been given an ultimatum before.

I remember once when I was in my early twenties, I was like, you know, this girl and I were going on dates whatever. We were going on dates for a few weeks, and this is my f boy days, mind you, so take everything I say with that in mind. We were like dating for like a month or two, and she eventually was like, if we you're you have a choice, like we want to have to know. She's like, you have the choice either be my boyfriend or we

never talked to each other again. That was like cir ultimatum because I was like still partying with my friends, like probably still hooking up with the girls. Um, And she was like, you either keep doing that or we decided to be in a relationship. And I was like, well, I really like you. I guess let's be in a relationship. And then obviously, sure enough that relationship went south eventually,

like a year later. Um. But it was just kind of a bad way to start the relationship where it's like, you know, you kind of have to let it happen a little more naturally and granted, like, if I was hurt in her position, I would have done the exact same thing. I was just about to say that, Like, honestly, if she didn't give you the ultimatum, don't you think the relationship would have win south anyway? Yes, because I

never I never would have brought the ultimatum. I've never would have been like, hey, look, let's be boyfriend girlfriend. Not because I didn't like the girl, but just because I you know, I didn't want to be in a relationship at the time, but I also didn't want to lose the comfort of that person that I had grown

fond with over the past month or two. I don't know if that's kind of why ultimatums in a way are necessary, because it's like, well, if you like that person, sometimes you need them to like put to push you over the ledge a little bit, you know. Yeah, yeah, I'm a fan of ultimatums. I think that, you know, depending on the situation. Like that girl, dude, you were you were hanging out with other girls, she wanted to be in a relationship with you. I give her credit.

She was like, hey, Dean, you either want to date me or you want to sleep around and if you want to sleep around, cool, but I'm not gonna be one of those girls. And I respect that, and honestly it's not It's kind of similar to what Ashley do with me, but instead of giving me an ultimatum, she just started dating someone else. So I have brought the decision upon myself to be like, Okay, I either go for this or I don't go for this. It's really I gotta go in one camp or the other. Um. Yeah,

I'm a fan of ultimatums. I think we should do it. Have you depending like tonight one like after one day, if you're like, hey, you're either with me or not? Like, yeah, lo CUCKU don't do that. Have you ever given an ultimatum? Um? But uh nah, I don't think so. I never had the balls to be like, yo, you date me or you don't date me, because I was probably more in your situation where I was like wishing, washing and flaking, like I don't know, do we want to be in

a relationship? Do we not want to be in a relationship? You know, I don't think I was ever given besides actually like a true ultimatum, I guess I kind of give Caitlin an ultimatum, right. I was like, you either leave the speech with me or you stay that dude, there's no choice in that. You kidding me? Do you remember what you look like walking down those stairs? And I was like, damn is paradise to day? That probably

is the only ultimatum I've ever given. And I remember people were like, oh, doing such a dick for giving ultimatum to this girl. And I was like, dang, you're kind of right. I am kind of a dick. Not like dude worked out. Look, look what happens to you give ultimatums. It usually works out, So I'm I believe it. I'm depending on the situation. Don't be a jerk about it. But well, and and let's talk about your your You

kind of gave an ultimatum. I know you said you haven't, but in a way you did, right, Like you're even pretty open about the time you kissed actually at the airport, right, that was essentially you giving her an ultimatum. See that was um. See it wasn't an ultimatum for me because like me kissing her at the airport was more like, hey, I'm still here, I'm not going anywhere. I think the ultimatum.

The ultimatum Fruit was on me beforehand to be like, I'm either going all in on this, hence I'm going to kiss her and be like, hey, I think it should be you and I or I leave the situation. Let Ashley and and what's his name, you know, have a good life. I guess my point is your kiss was essentially you telling her like, hey, keep dating that guy,

or come get some more of this action. Come get some of this action, aby, and like you lay similar to my mine Killin's ultimatum, yours ended up working out for the best marriage and on the way to get on my kids on the way at some point. Dude, I don't know if I just have like I'm I'm glamouring myself my past, but like I feel like I used to be way more sexy than I am now, Like the idea of me trying to lure Ashley and like woo her. Oh god, I don't even know where

to start. Yeah, No, I feel the same way. I think it's because I've also put on like ten pounds, so I just feel disgusting. Well, you look great, That's all that matters, dude. When you shave your mustache, it's like you're a plus Dean again, that's all you gotta do. What about this is my stat This is a good length, right, it's a good length. I like it. I just like your face, clean, shave, whatever. We don't have to talk about your face all day and night. Anyway. We've got

a great guest. He's coming up right now from the office Brian bomb Gartner. Uh. He is the brand not brand new, but he's the host of the Office Deep Dive and he's going to be coming up right after this break. All right, welcome back to help I suck at dating. Jared here with Dean of course, and we have a very special guest. You know him as Kevin

Malone from the Office. He has an I Heart radio podcast called The Office Deep Dive, where you can listen to wherever you're listening to this podcast right now currently. Brian bum Gartner. Brian, how are you, Jared? How are you? I'm doing well. Thank you so much for coming on. You are probably the biggest celebrity guest we've ever had

on this podcast. And that's not hyperbole. You know. Many people have said that, and they're all I'd be lying if I was saying I'm not fan going a little bit right now, so pardon my stuttering part of the butterflies and I know you can't feel them, and I Jared, I just wanted to correct you real quick, not only from the Office, but also from hand of God and good behavior, many others and the podcast. Let's talk about

your podcast real quick, Brian. So you have an oral history of the Office, which came out last year, and now you are doing new episodes of The Office Deep Dive. Right, that's right, So tell us about The Office Deep Dive

a little bit. You know. Basically, we the whole journey started with wanting to wanting to figure out why why The Office has is what it is now, Like in other words, we were a big hit when we were on NBC, like we were we struggled coming out of the gate, and then for a large time of the nine seasons we were on, we were the biggest scripted

show on NBC. But now the show has gone crazy, like it's way bigger now and we haven't filmed anything in seven eight years, And so it really was about wanting to know why, like what happened, like what decisions were made early on that made the show. Um, you know, live off now and and why is it cultivating this younger fan base, this increased fan base. I mean, by any metric you can you know, find it's the most watch show in television now and I'm talking about new shows,

you know, hit shows, hot shows that come out. More people are watching the Office than anything else. And so it's enough time had passed, and I went back to a lot of my old friends and actors, yes, Steve Carrell and Jenni Fisher and Rain Wilson, but also producers and directors and writers and and crew people and really just wanting to to explore that question, like what happened exactly? Like why is this now become you know, part of

the cultural zeitgeist? And everybody was super like not just willing, but like engaged about talking about it. I mean I referenced before I talked to Steve Carrell for about three hours about the show and then and you know it was like, oh, I'll walk you to your car, and then I stood by his car, like leaning against his car for like twenty five minutes and were like still talking about it, and uh, I found a lot of

the answers interesting. It was a ton of fun and so we had over a hundred hours of recorded material. And that's the office deep dive. Now it's me sitting down with my old friends having a conversation and talking about the show and how it got put together and why people think now this show is bigger than ever. Yeah. Well, it's funny to hear you talk about that too, because that that phenomenon that you were just describing is exactly me. So when the show was airing in the late two thousands,

I was in high school. I graduated o'nine. Not to date myself or anything like that, but my my, my best friend was obsessed at the office, and he'd always tried to get me to watch it with and I'm like,

now that just sucks. I'm not into it. And then I graduated to high school, went to college, and like my sophomore, junior college, all the seasons were over, and then it became on demand, like it went on Netflix or something like that, and I like plowed through it and I was like, WHOA, this show is so good. Why didn't I say I never watching this the first time around? And now Jared and I talked about it on top of the podcast. I'm sure you get this all the time too. It's like it's what I fall

asleep to every single night. Like I like kind of gauge people like if I don't think I can make a new friend if they're not a fan of the Office kind of thing, you know. Like I use it as like a ranking method that I have. I think it might be the most rewatchable show of all time. I'd say the Office in Seinfeld. No matter how many times you see an episode, people just will watch the same episode thirty forty fifty times and it never gets old. That's cool. Why do you think that is, I'm hosting

this podcast. Yeah, I like it. No, no, no no, I'll tell you why I think it is. I think it's because, well, the characters also are also relatable, and I think it's just it's a nice way to like kind of have a glimpse into obviously an American office, like relate with these people, and then kind of tie it back into your own life and you're kind of like, Okay, well, like they're doing that, I'm doing this. I'm like maybe

doing this a little bit better. So I'm really proud of myself because everyone has their own inner struggles going on in the show, you know, and so it's like they're well, you're you're like, well, if Kevin did that or if Jim did that, I didn't do it. So that means like, you know, my life's going pretty well. They're doing pretty well. It means I'm probably doing better. That's kind of how I've always looked at it, and you know, I had to piggyback off Dean. I think

a couple of things. One, I think obviously the writing has to be good, you know, first and foremost. And then secondly, I think you have to have great characters, and you have to have characters that people can see themselves in, if that makes sense. Like for example, somebody can watch The Office and say, oh, I'm like Kevin. I can see myself like him, or I can see myself like Jim, or or or Dwight. You know, like everybody has somebody when they're watching The Office they're like, oh, yeah,

I'm like that person. And I think because of that, you kind of grow with these kind of you grow with these characters, and I guess as they grow, you grow with them, and so you feel this like certain I don't know, but it's it's pretty cool. I also think The binge factor had probably something to do with it, because so many people like how many times Brian have you heard online someone would be like, oh, I tried starting a new show and instead I watched six hours

of the office. Yeah, yeah, well I for the podcast. I talked to Billie Eilish, who I hope I'm not messing this up. I think this this, this is basically the story. I think she had said she had watched it fourteen times. I think that's right. And when we had some of the clips of the interview air and I was talking about it, I had tons of responses of social media online like amateur only fourteen times and

I'm like, what are you like? UM? And I think you know, one of the things that that she talks about, which you kind of alluded deemed to it earlier, didn't not with these words. But there's a there's a come I don't it's hard to explain why. But there's a comfort factor, there's a feeling um in terms of people watching it at night before they go to bed like that. There's there's a repeatable nature of UM. It's funny too, because,

especially early on, you had a lot of people. Now most of these people were of the older demographic I will I will be honest, who could not watch this show because they felt like it was too mean, like Steve Corral, like Michael Scott was just like too mean and the things he said were just too uncomfortable and I didn't like that. But I think if you get past the inappropriate, misguided things that he says, there is we're getting a little meta here, a little deep, but

there is um. There is a theme of love and family and and it's sort of intrinsic niceness to each other actually, as weird as that sounds because of how many terrible things he says, you know, for the most part, you know, people in the office might roll their eyes at Michael Scott, but if somebody from outside comes in to try to do something, you know, nobody really likes that.

Like everybody sat up has their back, which is very different than say, what a lot of people are working in today, which is like a big box like if you're working in paper, you're working at Staples or office depot or you know, some huge, big box corporate store where there is sort of a familial, uh you know, family kind of niceness to the show. With the guys

of it being kind of subversive. There's there's an innocence to the show, I find, uh, and I think that comes from I that's that breathes like the comfortability level of the show because it is, like you said, sure, like yeah, there's some jokes and there's some edgy stuff, but like there is this like fundamental innocence to the show and the characters of these people that you just

feel like you've become friends with. Um Brown, I want to ask you as an actor because it's so interesting to me that a lot of actors, like they strive so hard to get that role, you know, like they so many people just never make it and they have a tough time becoming career actors and actresses. And sometimes when people get that one role, like for yourself with Kevin and certainly not defines, you know, your your acting career, but it's such a you know, larger than life role

that people know you from it. I remember because as a Superman fan, I remember as a kid there was an interview with Dean Kane and Dean Kane was like, oh, I just I'm so tired of people calling me Superman.

I want to get past that and in my head, I was thinking, like so many people would just die for that opportunity to be Like, you have a character that people like you without getting like too emotional, you like bring so much joy to people because of that character, Like you've impacted people's happiness in lives, like so many times when like I'm feeling down or so many people they're like, I'm going to watch The Office because it makes me happier. I don't know as as as an actors,

just wanted to get your thoughts on that. Well. I mean, I'll answer the question in a couple of ways. First off, is that um, again you said, not not wanting to get too emotional about it, but that that at is the greatest the greatest gift that the show gave me um,

and I think gave to a lot of people. Is that the thing that you just mentioned that you know how many times, I mean, like how often in public someone went through a divorce or a serious medical issue, or deployed overseas or any other you know, just life

thing that happens. That's a bummer that when I and we collectively as a group have been told like the Office helped me during this time and not as a way, and and and by the way, also them having the guts and also the need to tell me that like because there's one thing for it to be something passive that that you acknowledge helped, but almost like therapy style, like really having a need to communicate to me what

the show means in terms of that. And I can promise you that was never a stated goal of the show.

Never a state, you know, and and so much so I will say, um, I haven't talked about this before, but there was you know, there was a there were people, let's just say, people on both sides of the political uh presidential race, current politics that you know, they went to certain shows about wanting you know, support or to do a table read, or to do this or that or a fundraiser, and you know, we kind of decided that that the show was something that gave all people

comfort and and kind of not wanting to step into that you know, arena or take a side or whatever. It doesn't matter what we think because the show has been a source of comfort for so many people and we don't take that for granted or lightly. And again like never imagine that, you know, spilling the chili on the floor, like would be a part of something that would like give people comfort. But yeah, I mean it's so funny and it's not it's not a cliche, uh dean,

because I know it's true. But like that phrase, like I put it on every night before I go to sleep, I cannot tell like so many people and um and again I keep reverencing Billie Eilish in a weird way. But like she's like, oh, no, I put it on. I'm in the shower. I'm there. I'm like, you're not even watching it, so what are you even doing? She's like there's just that that sound, that that familiarity, something she knows that that you know, brings comfort or whatever.

That's incredibly moving now as an actor, I mean it's yeah, I think, Um, it will never for better or worse, it will never escape me. And I don't ever take that for granted or ever bemoan that it's an opportunity that you know, still gives people pleasure and comfort and um and laughter in this world that is diff called to find. Sometimes I never do I, you know, I it's funny because really I didn't. Comedy was not the thing that I mostly did when I was growing up

doing doing the theater, not growing up. That sounds weird. Um. Right before The Office, I was doing theater, and I was doing like mostly like real gritty style drama stuff. Um. And you know, but for me, it was really about the creation of the character. And so I think, you know, in some ways from me specifically. I mean, look, I have a distinctive head, let's be honest. So like I get spotted uh a lot, and I and the character was so sort of specific and also different from from me. Um.

I think that causes people some confusion or whatever. Um. But but no, I don't ever, I don't ever complain or think to complain it on that. Yeah, it's it's funny to your earlier point when you say people would watch The Office as a form of therapy. So I broke my leg last year and I was in the hospital for seven days recovering. It isn't Switzerland, and there weren't streaming rights in Switzerland, so I couldn't watch The Office. So I had to watch the freaking Friends for seven days,

which was such a bummer. But the second I got back, I started watching The Office. But um, Brian, question for you so many years ago, maybe like two or three years ago, you were at a premiere for UM, an Amazon original show called All or Nothing. Do you remember that the football show? You met one of my really good friends there who we talked about office with all the time. His name is Tommy. He's an Amazon unscripted executive. He was talking to you about like shot put or

something really strange. And I called him right before I told him I was going to speak with you today and I was like, Tommy, I'm interviewing or I'm you know, I'm talking to Kevin from the office from Brian. What's one question you want me to ask him? And he's like, he like called me freaking out. He's like, you gotta ask him. Of all the people on the show, who was the person that was most often to like to break to break character mid uh you know mid scene

like laugh, yeah, Mindy Kaling that I can see. No, there's no, yeah, there's no. You know. John uh Krasinski, who played Jim. He he would like he would break a lot, especially with him and uh, you know, like and he talked to me about this actually his UM.

The first part of our conversation just last weekend. He was talking about UM, especially when they had the talking heads right like the direct interview to camera, and occasionally they would put Jim and Dwight in there at the same time and they couldn't get through John could not get through it. But no, of the entire cast, it's Mindy Kaling and I I don't think he would get

a different answer from anybody. Yeah. It's funny because my girlfriend and I listened to Office Ladies podcast quite a bit and we we've actual you heard you on there as well, uh, and I remember them saying the same thing that Mindy was kind of the one that would always break the most um and on that topic to I kind of want to ask you, so, what would what would make the office Deep Dive stand out from Office Ladies, which is a great podcast. I'm just curious.

It's it's just a totally different thing. I mean, they what they're doing is so fun and cool. They are they're going through episode by episode and they're talking about the specific episodes, um, details that happened behind the scenes, stuff that happened, uh through the episode. This is uh,

these are conversations with the individual people. That's really much more macro as opposed to micro, like like talking about the entirety of the casting process and talking about the entirety of like, you know, Steve Carrell slash Michael Scott's journey on the show and and him the decision for him leaving for example, or where that fit in and him coming back. You know. So it's looking at more sort of like the whole thing and not and they're

just going episode by episode. Gotcha? Oh and that actually brings me back to a question I had earlier too. So you talked about how Michael Scott's character matured started for fan bowing. He's like, oh, yeah, a question. Oh I forgot, I have another question. Oh wait a minute, I have another question. Like I've done a million questions up here, and I'm like trying to keep it navigating, but I'm like, but I can't do it. Um, you were saying you were like a grungy actor before joining

the office, So how did Brian become Kevin? Like how did you get cast? And then how did that whole process work? Because if you said you said you weren't much of a comedic actor, you were saying, yeah, I mean I was I focused more on drama. I mean I moved to Los Angeles, I was doing theater around the country, and uh, I moved to Los Angeles and and UH decided I was gonna like take a chance, and and I said no to some theater projects and I was go to go to l A and explore

film and television. I've done a little bit outside of l A in film and television, like I had my Screen Actors Guild card, but um, you know, I went and decided to dedicate uh myself to to that and fortunately it was just um a lot of preparation. I knew the British show. I knew that it would be a good show for me. But just a couple of months after I moved to Los Angeles, I met Greg

Daniels and Ben Silverman and the folks at the office. So, um, you know, I did a lot of work around the country and small theaters and um big theaters, and but once I moved to Los Angeles, UM, I met those guys pretty quickly and started working on the show nice

and then the rest of history, I guess. Yeah. So, since we are a dating podcast, question for you, if you could go back and beat Kevin and Kevin had the pick of the letter in the office, who do you think Kevin would want to date the most, who would heaven want to do because Brian, you're happily married, you know, you have kids. I'm trying, I'm repeating the question to to to make sure that I'm framing it correctly. I I mean, well, let's just say again, we're talking

about Kevin. Kevin became very, very interested in Jan's boobs once they were augmented. So I don't I don't know, that's not exactly in the office. But you know, other than that, I guess it would be Pam. I mean, I guess you know that because Angela. No, no, no, I mean I guess it would be Pam. But I don't know. Maybe Jan would be the overall, maybe he would, she would be the overall. Yet, although I have to say I had a I had a pitch, and I

talked about talked about this in the podcast. Is gonna be more coming out about this, But I actually went to the writers. We had big meetings, there was a lot of great always very open dialogue between the actors and the writers, and I went to the writers and pitched. I can't believe I didn't even think this because this just came out. Um, I pitched um Aaron Uh, Ellie, Ellie Kemper. I felt like their energy um, and they're

not so much for their sexual tension. But I thought that their energy and sort of there, like her like a hummingbird just always like floating around and Kevin's just absolute stasis would be very funny. I thought that was I thought that was a good idea. They decided not to go. Well, there was that one episode that Michael wanted to be the matchmaker and tried to set uh Kevin and Aaron up. Remember that one and Aaron is like,

I don't like Kevin. I like Andy, Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe that was a residubal thing, but I yeah that we had talked. We talked about that like going into last season, but that that didn't go anywhere. Maybe maybe that's the other answer is that if Brian fictionally had been I don't know, we're gonna be a spinoff, I thought that would have been a very funny pair. That was the reason for the thing. Yeah, there wasn't There wasn't enough love in chest for Kevin. I feel like

we didn't get to see that side of Kevin enough. Yeah, there was a there was a there, Well, there was Stacy, who was allegedly my fiancee for the first couple of years, and then she like dumped me over breakfast and that went away. And there was storyline around where Michael and I were kind of together feeling the same way around a Valentine's Day and I end up meeting someone that I did have a makeout session. Uh with that. Uh. I can't even think of the character's name now, Oh

my war heard. Um there was an episode called Cafe Disco where they turned the old or Michael paper company into a thing, and yeah, I invite her and I can't remember her name. I remember remember the line I got six numbers, one more and I got the whole thing. Brian, Now you sound like Dean where you're like, oh, I made out with a girl, but I don't remember her name. Okay, Okay, yeah that's on camera or not. Probably well some someone's

on someone's who's keeping track, you know? Right? Um, So, like you said earlier, you said The Office is the most watched show now even though it has had a new episode in something like that, right, something crazy like that seven eight years And I will say that one of, if not the most iconic scenes of the show is your chili scene, which makes that in essence the most wat scene in television history in a way, right, Like you know, you kind of deduce it down to that.

Tell us about that scene, because that has to be like your most memorable scene from like an audience perspective, right, yeah, I mean it is now for sure. You know. I was not um when when we when we filmed that scene, I had a clearly no idea that it would be this, And I thought it was fun, you know, the thing that people don't think about. Uh, but there was. I mean, it's crazy because people love the show. This scene was

totally not shot in the way the show is. And yet this scene is this scene that you know, everybody talks about. But you know, it's just a voiceover from me almost the entire scene. No other characters appear in the scene except for me. It's a singular you know,

shot through with me describing what I'm doing. Um. And so I thought it was cool and was a fun challenge really because you know, more and more as the show went on, I started doing a lot more physical comedy, which was something that I had done, um, you know,

prior to the show. Um, and that that was Those things were always kind of fun for me because it really required figuring some stuff out, like, um, you know, same thing with the fake fire drill and the running around and okay, now you're gonna smash the vending machine, you're gonna run through and I hit the camera and do you know so all of that stuff is is fun for me. You know this because um, because of

what resetting and shooting again was going to mean. There was a lot of prep sort of done into that, you know, like you know, me trying to figure out, Okay, how do I spill this and not make it look like I'm dumping it and all of those things. Um, so that was really fun. I'm tremendously proud, especially now because I talked about it often. It was one take of the spill. Fortunately, as I have joked many times, there were all these plants in place about different pieces

of carpet and props and chili and all of this stuff. Um, there wasn't I don't think enough thought done to how messy I was going to be. And I really and truly don't know that we could have shot it again because you know, chili stains. Let me say that the spices that are in chili, so like my hands were like almost orange e and like, I don't know that we could have done that again that day, but thankfully

we got it. Yeah. Nice. Well that's just a testament to your acting ability, I guess, and I'm sure everyone is grateful because that the restaging would have taken forever. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that is pretty awesome. I mean, Brian, I can't thank you enough for coming on the podcast today. Everybody listening, go check out the Office Deep Dive with

Brian bom Gardner. Uh, you just released your episode with John Krasinski, which you actually recorded before the pandemic if Yeah, so most of the interviews we we yeah, we were recorded before the pandemic, so we were in person. I traveled to New York then and did that and uh and yeah, Jenni Fisher is coming up, and then uh, Steve Carrell right after that. So we've got a great little stretch here that'll be I think a lot of fun for people to hear. That's awesome. I'm glad that.

I'm glad we had John here because I don't want to check it out now. Like I said, I like office ladies, but it'll be nice to get that. You should listen to You should listen to all of them, but you should listen to the one with Ricky Gervais. Ricky Gervais is one of my heroes, and so that was a great conversation. Um, he's awesome, he's so far and seems so freaking cool too. Yeah. Well, Brian, thank you again. We've taken up way too much of your time.

And uh, thank you again for joining us here and help my second dating awesome. Thanks so much, guys, Thanks Brian. Thanks Brian. It's so nice meeting you. Thanks again, man, We really appreciate it. Absolutely, Thanks you guys. All right, good luck, Thank you so much. All right, welcome back to help I suck at dating, Dean. How's your little office fanboy? Heart fulfilled? I've still got butterflies. I'm still nervous. It's like, you know, just give me a second to recover. Here,

you're you're sweating a little bit, you're blushing. Kevin's so funny. I'm sorry. Brian's character is so funny because he has to be the one of the most influential characters per line set, Like he really doesn't have that many lines, but he is like one of the key characters of the show. I don't are you even do you even watched The Office? I feel like, yeah, I've seen I've seen episodes. So every time I watched The Office, I really enjoy it. But I had never sat down and

just started binge watching it. As you know, I'm not a big TV show guy, and I never watched it when I was on. But every time I watch it, I do enjoy it, so like I really have to kind of sit down. I do feel because I love I love I just love comedies and so like Seinfeld even friends. You know, I watched all that stuff, so I gotta get into it because I love it, and I love Ricky Gervais a freaking I love Ricky Gervais, so I feel like I would. That's so funny the

distinctions between us. You you lose it for movies and superheroes and stuff, and I like don't really care for that at all, and then I'm like obsessed with The Office. Parks and rec is also really good, um and like Entourage. Those are my three shows I could watch all day, every single day. That's why we're so successful at hosting this podcast, because we're opposites, right, right, right, Intellectual diversity is what it is. Uh So we do have an email.

It's a good way of putting it. We have an email from our suck army. Once again, Please everybody, we love your emails. Email us at I suck at dating at heart media dot com. Again, I suck at dating at I heart media dot com. We love your emails, We love talking to you, we love hearing your stories. We love answering your questions. We probably do a crappy job answering them, but we still want to try. So please email us, and of course you can follow us

to help by second dating Instagram. All right, here we go, no mark, no Eastern. Do you want to read it? You want me to read it? Oh? Should we have Riley read it? Riley? You want to read it? Yeah? I definitely can read it. My best This email is from Haley. She says, my boyfriend and I have been together for a year and we lived together. We're fully in love and so happy. I'm a bridesmaid and one of my best friend's wedding this summer, and she invited my ex too. But whatever, it's her day, so I

can't be too upset about it. The main issue is I am nervous about my boyfriend and my ex interacting. We ended on okay terms, but we still are on and off several years after ending things, and then I goes to them when I tried to get serious again. That was pretty close to the time my boyfriend and I got together. He's a good guy, but I just knew he wasn't the one. My ex will also be

bringing his new girlfriend to the wedding. I just wondered if you had any advice on all of us interacting at the wedding, or if I should text my ex beforehand to clear the air to make sure things aren't awkward. Well, first and foremost, Riley, thank you so much for reading that. You're welcome. I know Riley's the best. You're really competing for Mark's job over there. She doesn't need to text her ex boyfriend about clearing the ear. There's no need

for that. Listen, it's this day is not about you. It's not about your boyfriend. It's not about your ex, it's not about her his new girlfriend. This day is about your best friend who's getting married. So everybody there should respect that and just go there and you be cordial and you say hello, it's good to see you, and then you go your separate ways and you have a grand old time not thinking about your ex or not making it about you, because this is not your wedding,

and Haley, I'm sure that you feel that way. I just hope that your ex does as well. And honestly, if he doesn't, then he sucks. And your best friend will know that, because your best friend will know that he's trying to make it about himself. So don't even text him. It's not a big deal. Just let it go, you don't. I would maybe talk to your boyfriend right now and just be like, hey, he's gonna be there. Just make sure you're cool about it. This is not

about us. This is about our best friend getting married. And I'm sure your boyfriend would be like, yeah, absolutely, I'm not gonna make a scene, Jed. I gotta hand it to you, man, I don't think I've ever seen yourself fired up before. Uh. The reason so if you remember, I didn't, I went through somewhat of a similar situation right here on this podcast with this same as act scenario where you know my good friend was grundsman. Uh, I mean we don't have to rehash it because it

was a difficult time. But it was just a hard moment where it was like, you know, you you go you kind of like go through a breakup with a friend, and then you come through the scenario where it's like, oh, no, like, do I want to put these people in the same room where like I know there's like tension there and I'm sure they'll be fine, But do I like even want to present the idea of that happening. Uh. So, I understand, I understand it's tough, it's not easy. I

I agree. I don't think anyone can understand this situation better than you on this podcast. At the moment, I will say, I think there's some holes in your argument. I think, baby, I'm ready. Your advice was it was sound advice. I didn't agree with all of it, but I don't think you'd go wrong by following your advice. But the point is with we're gonna use your wedding as an example, and I know you want to bring it back up, but we have to. So you one

of very good friends was a groomsman. You didn't even give the possibility of the of Hailey situation happening because you were worried about the possible repercussions of it, and you kind of nipped in the bud and you're like, you know what, we're just gonna go ahead and say we don't want any type of uncomfortablelty among the guests, which I respect, I think it was the right decision. My point is you thought that it could have gotten

to a point where it was awkward for everyone. And it sounds like Hayley doesn't have that option because she's gonna be at the wedding regardless with her ex. So if you think it could be that potentially that bad, I think what Haley should do is text her act well, tell her boyfriend. First, tell her boyfriend what's going on. Say hey, baby boy, listen to what I'm listen to what's going on. Make sure you can call him baby boy. Really butter up first, you know exactly, but I'm up

real good, um, tell him what's gonna happen. And then and then be like, I'm going to text him and kind of just like break the ice before we even get there, you know, and just be like and it's just simple text because you'd be like, hey, I hear you going to this wedding, I'm going as well. I'll not like, I'll see you there, but like you know, if you guys are on good terms, it doesn't really

have to be much more than that. And then when you see him there, instead of just like you know, passively sitting off in the distance, I would say, bring your boyfriend up assertively to him and his new girlfriend and just like, hey, hi, I get to see you, blah blah blah, and then that way there's no more tension. I think if you those two things, there would be

zero issues whatsoever. What do you think I'm imagining they're not on good terms seeing how she ghosted is, well, she did ghost is, but but look, he just said I can't remember where I remember seeing it. But she said we ended okay terms, okay terms, but we were still on and all for several years after ending things,

and then I ghosted him. So I'm thinking that when they did end things on okay terms, when she didn't respond, not okay terms anymore, I could imagine I'll tell you what, all the more reason to do what everything I just said.

I think by being the assertive person in the situation, you're basically asserting that you're cool with it, and by you being cool with it, he's going to be cool with it, you know, don't You find it sometimes though, when you try to get ahead of a situation, it sometimes like makes the situation more of a thing that

it actually is. Like if she reached out and said, hey, I don't want to make a thing of this, do you think he'd be like why you think I was going to make a thing of it instead of just like going and not talking and be like hey, hello, see you later. I definitely see your point. And that's why I never encouraged her to say I don't want to make a thing of this, because by saying I don't want to make a thing of this, you're making a thing of it. Simply just be like, hey, I

heard you going to so and So's wedding. I'm gonna be there too, looking forward to a fun weekend. Like that's all you need to say. You don't need to say I'm making a thing of it. Simply just reaching out implying that you're gonna be there, and then when you're there, go up and say hi, and then that's the end of it. It's like, my biggest advice is if she does, do that, tell your boyfriend like before him, show him the text and be like I'm about to hit send. Are you okay with this? For sure? It

definitely is like, uh, it should be worked upon. It's like a group project, you know there there it's like group A versus group B. Group A puts together the project. Since it's a group B group be probably he's gonna bring it to his girlfriend. They're gonna put something together, send it back to group A, and then they're gonna be at the wedding and they're all gonna be one group. I think that's very I think that's the best advice I've ever given on this podcast. I'll tell you what.

There's no eye in team, but there is an eye in relationship. So I'm not sure if that makes sense. They're thinking about it. There's yeah even so you and h Well, that was gonna do it for this week's episode of Help I Suck at Dating, a big thank you too, of course. Brian bum Gardner, Uh, please listen to his podcast We Know Dean is the Office Deep Dive. It's of great stuff on there, especially if you love the office, which you do, because it's probably the biggest

show of all time. Big thank you to Riley for stepping in. Riley was the producer, the engineer, she wrote the rundown, She got the guests like Riley kicking, but she needs to do one more thing before we can let her get off Scotch free. I think it'd be great to have a woman's perspective on the question we just answered. Would you guys both be okay with that? Yeah, I'll get my perspective, Okay, I agree. I think she

should text the cor X beforehand. I think if she's thinking about it this much and she's worried about it, I think she should text. And also, if you're overthinking it, it's going to be awkward there, you know, in person. Might as well get it out on text beforehand and then be okay face to face. So I am outnumbered on this one two to one. They do say geniuses

walk alone. I'm not a genius unfortunately, And you guys are probably right on this one, seeing how like my dating history is and like you know, I obviously screwed up the thing with Ashley for quite some time and thank god she was still there. Uh so, and make sure everybody thank you did that make any sense. Thank you so much for tuning into this podcast. Next week, I do want to tease a little segment we're gonna

talk about. So we have an article for Cosmopolitan that we're going to talk about this week, but we didn't have time. It was about somebody bringing a crystal with them on the first day, and so Riley put together some things that, hey, if this person brought this with them on a first date, would you think it's cool or creepy? So we're gonna talk about that next week, which I'm very excited to dive into and make sure you tune in. We're hopefully we all suck just a

little bit less, a little bit less. Follow help by Suck at Dating on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to podcast