No Filter No Cry

out there. Right. It's not like I just got off the golf course. As a matter of fact, I left the golf course early just so I could hang out with the with the sucky daters with That's how dedicated Dean is. There's no place I'd rather be other than right here. Um. Yeah, I'll be honest with you guys. Uh, you know, I think you guys can always expect honestly out of us here. I hope I suck a dating. I'm I've had a couple of beers. I've had a

couple of drinks on the golf course. So this podcast is gonna be a little looser than most and I love Lucy C Dean, and we're already pretty loose too. I think that's the problem. So looser than loose is gonna be an interesting take away. Well, full full disclosure, Dean actually is changing shirts right now. And you have a tattoo on your right shoulder. What is that? Is that? Palm trees, flowers? I've never seen that tattoo before. No, yeah,

it's actually funny. I get asked that question semi frequently. So the tat two on my right shoulder is a John Butler Trio album artuh, album cover art. It's it's like three arrows pointing up for trio. Obviously for my best friend, well, one of my best friends when I was in college. He uh, he overdosed and died and he would hope he did it at a John Butler Trio concert. And so me and a couple other friends

got John Butler Trio tattoos to commemorate his wonderful life. So, Jared, I appreciate you starting off the top of the podcast with a somber Uh. You know, I didn't know it was going to be somber. I'm so sorry you have to tell that story. Never mind, moving right along No, it's funny too, because I've got a lot of really dumb tattoos. So you see a tattoo and odds are that it's gonna be a meaningless, idiotic, like hilarious story. But there's a couple that being one of them that

are actually like meaningful, you know. Yeah, no, totally, just like the Instagram one with the blue checkmark that's very meaningful. Yeah, right next to the right, next to the blue checkmark. I think I've talked about this on the podcast before. I really want to get a tattoo of this artist, David Shrigley. Uh. He he's like a doodler. Have I talked about this before? Have you heard the story? I

don't think I don't think so either. Okay, So I really want to get this tattoo and uh and I really want to get it like on my quad, like on my leg and like a very visible area if

you wear like shorts, you know. And when when I broke my leg, Caitlin and I were spending time in London and we went to this restaurant and there were these freaking hilarious drawings all over the walls, like little doodles with like funny little uh, not like proverbs, but like little like snippets of words on the bottom or top or whatever, you know, like monkey, big monkey, like super like ridiculously like basic, but like hilarious at the

same time. And I started, I started following the artists on Instagram, and uh, he posted this thing one day. It's like literally like a you know, like a like a hobo's knapsack where they like sling a thing together over like a over a stick that they throw over their shoulder like that kind of thing. Is hobo politically correct to say anymore? Um, I don't think it's really like it's kind of like a yeah, I think it's I think it's perfectly fun to say. I know, the knapsack.

That's totally kind of like one of the seven Dwarves when they're they're going to work and they're whistling to work, they carry the knapsack over the show exactly exactly like the seven doors. Let's go seven Dwarves and go ahead and leap out the hobo that I said earlier. But

I still think it's pc. It's okay. Anyways, it's basically one of those and on the sacked on like the knapsack it just says bag of rats, and I just want to get a big I want to get a big tattoo of a knapsack with the words bag of rats on it, right on my quad. Um. I'll be honest with you, as I totally forgot where this whole story was gone. I'm saying, we were talking about tattoos. To bring it back to dating, I, while you were talking about a sack of rats. I went to men

bag of rats. Excuse me. I went to Men's Journal dot com and I was curious if women like guys with tattoos. And so there's this article that asked twenty women, do you like guys with tattoos? And pretty much universally all of them have said, yes, I like tattoos. They said no on piercings. They said. The only tattoos that they really don't like our neck tattoos um or really

really ridiculous tattoos. But they say that guys who have tattoos, depending where they are, um that have meaning behind them and are really thought out. They see a sexy Sure, yeah, I can see that. And that's kind of why I sprinkled a couple of meaningful ones in there. You know, tattoos.

Tattoos are funny. I know you don't have any tattoos, sarre I want a tattoo, though, I was just gonna say, I'm surprised you don't because you are, um, you know, for all your faults, you are very very passionate about a lot of things. And I think that's the problem. What am I going to get a tattoo of Tom

Brady's face on my chest? Stuff? So that's kind to my point though, is like, of all the things that separate me and you, I think the biggest separation between you and me Dean and Jared is that you, uh you. I don't want to say, like obsess over things, but you took you take passion to a new level with with four things right, and I admire you so much for that. And I am the opposite. I can't do that at all, um, and I am the one with

That's probably why I get stupid tattoos. But I guess my point that I'm trying to make is someone that's as passionate as you are. I'm surprised that you haven't, like, you know, taken the next step and primarily inkered on yourself. See that's why I find you so much more cultural than I am, though, because like you're so open to experiencing new things and doing things that you've never learned about before. We're me. I'm like, no, I like the things that I like, and I don't like the things

that I don't like. So it's like I'm very passionate about about the things that I love. But if it's like something I haven't done or have no interest in, like you'd be like, yeah, sure, let's try it out. Where me, I'm like, no, I'm all set. I think I'm I think convincing. What about Like, let's talk about girls with tattoos? What do you think? I don't think actually has any tattoos? She did not, but I gotta I gotta admit I love tattoos on a girl. Really.

I think it's the Ashley better cover her ears. But like, Ashley is the only person I care about anymore. But in my single days, I loved tattoos on girls. I find that incredibly sexy. So like, what kind of tattoos that like, like a whole arm sleep or what. I don't know, man, I kind of think arm sleeve is pretty hot. It depending on the girl, obviously, you know, if ash had an arm sleeve, it would be freely weird. But I don't know, like I I just I like

girls with tattoos. Like even sometimes when the girl has like a tattoo on her ankle or um, it's you know, I don't want I don't think kind of like a girl with just like a tattoo on like her biceps, you know, but if it's like a full arm sleeve or like tattoo like on her ribs, you know, like the lettering down the side, right, I like on it. There was like a tan girl who wears, you know, a two piece bikini and has like a tattoo on her side rib. We're getting into like Jared's like fetishes

over here. I feel like, oh, yeah, that was I think. And I've always said ever since a young age. And I said a lot of dumb things at young ages, but this is one of the few things that I stood by ever since. I remember my first time saying it is the rib tattoo like you were talking about, I think might be the sexiest place girl can get a tattoo, like a vertical tattoo of like some stupid quote that no one really cares about. I I think it is pretty sexy. I agree that the like the

quote unquote tramp stamp the lower back one. I could go like, I don't actually hate that. I know weird a lot of you know, I should say I don't like that. I don't hate it you like tramp stamps? Also? Okay, wait, I don't need to back up for a second. If Hobo is not politically correct, tramp stamp cannot be politically

that's true, I guess. So yeah, maybe I shouldn't say like that, but I think of wedding crashers, remember that part where like a girl eiggsactly, Yeah, tattoo on the lower back might as well be a bullsh I don't know, but I I definitely I find girls with like do you think do you think Ashley would ever get a tattoo? Though? Uh No, I don't think she would want a tattoo. This isn't fair her personality, you know. I mean, do

you want to know what's funny? Actually, Kaylin and I were supposed to get matching tattoos like a year and a half ago, and we get to the tattoo, we like figure out what we're gonna get. So so Caitlin's old roommate had an avocado on her ankle and her boyfriend had the other side of the avocado with like the pit in it, and it was like pretty cute and like funny, and you want to do something similar to that. And so we were like figuring out what

we're gonna do, and I got this. We were like, Okay, what we're gonna do is I'm gonna get an airplane and Kitlin is gonna get you. No, I'm sorry, I'm gonna get a parachuoter like like a skydiver, and Caitlin is gonna get an airplane like this guy ever jumps

out of the airplane kind of thing. And we go to the tattoo parlor and we both get our artwork picked out and everything, and I go first and I get the tattoo of the skuy diver on my back, and then Calin is supposed to go and she completely bails.

She didn't get the tattoo. And to this day, even to this day, not every day, but like pretty often she's like, yeah, like I want to get a tattooed blah blah blah, and I'm like, you don't want to get a tattoo, because last time we literally were there ready to get a tattoo, you literally just said no, I don't want to get anymore. So I don't know. Couples, what do you think about couple of tattoos? Like would

you ask you ever get one? I don't know if I even when you were telling a story about couple of tattoos, and like the avocado on the pit, it's cute individual, you know, perspective, I don't know if it's for me. Gotta be honest, Like I remember Grant and Lace.

Now granted they knew each other for like two weeks, but Grant and Lacey got engaged on Batchlan Paradays three, they got matching tattoos before they got engaged in the show, obviously broke up, both got their tattoos removed, and it's like, I don't know, I mean, I just I don't know. Maybe matching tattoos. I guess, like maybe someone has like the puzzle piece, you know, and the other one has

like the full puzzle with one missing piece. I don't know, just off the top of your head, that is actually a very good tattoo idea. And I'm gonna maybe I'm gonna pitch it Calan on the idea it's always funny. I think matching is different like it's I think, if I remember correctly, Grant and Lace got literally the exact

same tattoo. But the nice thing about doing something that's like same but different but equal is maybe better because like let's say, god forbid, someone breaks up, it's like, at least you don't share that tattoo with someone else. It's just like you. You could just be like, oh,

I love skydiving. That's why I have. It has nothing to do with someone else getting a plane, even though you, Caitlin are obviously going to spend the rest of your life together, right right right, Well, that's the nice thing about so that sky ever was in my back. I've got a lot of dumb tattoos in my back, and I think about it back is you can't really ever see it, so I don't even really know what my

back looks like, you know. And I honestly think girls like tattoos on guys better when they're hidden, because it's a nice, like little surprise. I remember a girl told me that one time. She's like, I find it incredibly sexy when a guy has a tattoo on you know, parts of their body that we can't see, so like when he takes off his shirt, it's a surprise, and it's like a sexy surprise, unless it's like, you know, uh, you know, a tattoo of my dog Lois, who's freaking

out right now in the other room. But even that could be pretty cool. I might be repulsed by, you know, the fat rolls and stuff, but at least I'm turned on by the tattoos kind of thing. Oh your fare Roles. I thought you were talking about my dog. I was like, bro, okay, she might be a little overweight, but we're working on it. We're trying to get her on a diet. Crap about Lois like that, Come on, that's right. Well, we have a great episode coming up for you. Like we said,

we have interesting segue. We have Alex Durant coming on now. He is the founder of Jigsaw, which is a brand new dating app which reminds me of the movie Saw. I don't know if anybody's ever seen that, but jig Saw as the killer in there, so I'm interested to ask him about that, you know. But Jigsaw's brand new app about pretty much blind going on blind Dates. So I'm very interested to discuss that with Alex coming up.

But before we talk to Alex, let's take a quick break, Jared, Before we take a quick break, I need to figure this out. And you just saying it made me think about this is the reason that the movie called Saw? Is it because it's short for Jigsaw? Yes? And now he blew your mind, didn't it? I believe so? Yeah. And plus it's like a play on words because he has to saw his foot off at the end of the movie spoiler alert for a movie that's twenty years old.

But there's like seven of the movies. Yeah, but like the first one obviously was the reason why they titled it. The rest was just marketing, you know, moving on from the story. But like the first one, jig saw, so they cut it off and put saw and then of course like he saw his foot off at the end of the movie. I've always known his name was Jigsaw, and obviously the movie is Saw. It never until now just piece together that they may be named the movie

after Jack Saw, who's not even the main character. I say, But anyways, we're gonna chase the killer. But also a quick thing about that, do you know that there's a new stock coming out, but it's like a spin off. It's called Spiral, and it's produced and starred by Chris Rock and it has Samuel Jackson in it and it looks freaking awesome. I'm supposed to come out last year, it's coming out this year. Anyway, Long story short, Hey, we've been needing to take a break for a minute.

Let's take a break and get back into uh hey, welcome back to help I suck at dating. Like we tease before the break, we have a great guest who's on the line joining us from across the Atlantic. It is the CEO and co founder of the brand new dating app Jigsaw. It is Alex Durant. Alex, thank you so much for joining us today and help I suck at dating. Yeah, brilliant. Thanks for having me guys, of course, So Alex, a big question is do you suck at dating? Oh? Yeah,

totally big time me and my co founder. But we'll get into this lighter. My co founder Max, you know, we've been friends since we're fifteen. He's he's publicly failed the dating I've just done. I've just done mine behind closed doors, publicly failed. Besides no, I've gone into it straight away. He's gonna kill me for this. So we've got we have a we have a a dating show over in the UK called First Dates. I don't know

if you've heard that clips. Yes, so it's just like theysic sit down in a restaurant, um and they just film every single moment of a first dagh. Was this on Netflix? Yes? On Netflix? Now, Oh, I have seen this show. Ashley was watching it and I watched an episode with her. Amazing. Yes, So it's just was was it the British version or was was it the US version?

It might have been the US version because the reason I heard about it one of the producers of The Bachelor of the show Dean and I were on, was working on it. Oh cool, brilliant. So yeah, so it's so yeah, I guess he's probably exactly the same format they have. You know, two people turn up to a restaurant,

they sit down and they have a first date. And yeah, my co founder MAXI went on there on that about three years ago and he calls it the gift that keeps on giving, because it was it was obviously live on TV about three years ago and about six months ago it went onto Netflix and he was like, oh great, and I'm assuming it did not work out for him, which is why he's not happy about they Yeah, I think, yeah, they seem to have a good date and they weren't compatible.

But if he famously asked her what her favorite size of paper was A four or a three, that might be the worst question ever asked on the first date? Wait is eight four and eight three? Two different sides? Do you guys not have those sizes of paper? That might be the we have that I know at least it's like an eight by twelve, right, I think, see you guys, Yeah, you guys measure in interest. He's got no chance over in the US, as our producer just in formed, was this eight and a half by eight

point five by eleven? Apparently very close? But let's transition to your obviously eating up, which is where you're here. So talk about what Jigsaw is, why you wanted to create it? Uh, and right now, I know it's London, but you guys are making your way over the States as well. Yeah, yes, so we recently just launched in the US. But yeah, plain and simply, you know, Jigsaw exists to encourage and enable people to look on the looks. You know, we're we're all guilty of prejudgments and we're

aware of the negative impact that comes from that. And so what we do is we cover every single one of our users faces in the Jigsaw puzzle that reveals

piece by piece as people communicate with one another. So what we're trying to do there, if you're trying to create an environment online, which we all know is you know, full of photo first applications, you know, conversation second, if you even get to that, what we're trying to do there is we're trying to recreate as much as we can, sort of that the spark of the art of conversation from I'm doing quote marks in my hands the olden days, uh,

and trying to create you know, this fifty fifty personality and looks because we all know looks matter, and you know with Jigsaw, you know you unveil and see what somebody looks like pretty quickly. You know, we're not in the business of wasting people's time. But at the same time, you need to give people a chance, and you need to have a conversation with someone before you can fully judge them. And that's the full premise of what Chicksaw is based upon, and it, as you can probably imagine,

comes from mine and Max's personal struggles dating apps. But you're very good looking man, so I can't imagine that you were too funny. That's funny putting your picture online Tinder and bumbles. Our algorithms beg to differ based on my old match, right, So you know, me and me and Max, and I'm sure you know many many many guys out there are guilty of the swiping right on every single, every single person to get you know, a very very minimal return. So you play the ads exactly,

everybody against the at that point exactly. So you know, that just came from our our own personal experience with that, and we we were lucky enough to be at that age where when we were in our late teens, there were no dating apps. And then Max went off to college. I actually went into work at the same time, but actually ended up living in like the college house with like another guy's and then shocked Tim to hit the university campus. Everyone went wild and Max I can't take

credit for this. Maximu co founder is the is the creative one between us and he you know, he just instantly thought, this is crazy. You know, everybody's just everyone's going mad comparing photos of one another. But who's actually talking on these dating apps? And why isn't there a dating app out there? But conversation first and photo second.

That was the original idea and ever since then, you know, ave itterated and changed it to where we are today, where we just cover users faces in a jigsaw puzzle and after a short conversation, now you're unveil each other and see who each other are and decide if you part ways or continue. You want to know what you want. Know.

What's funny about this is we've talked to other um, you know, I guess for about lack a better word, like inventors of dating apps, right, And from what I've gathered, more or less, every single one of them is very similar, very much the same premise. This one sounds like original and gore to me because it's like, yeah, right, like how often you gonna have a conversation with someone before

you see their photo? And it's like that's me. Like my biggest great with a lot of these things is none of them are super proprietary, but it sounds like interesting and core. Cheers Man, yeah, it's it's so you know, ultimately the puzzles a bit of a red herring in this.

It's just you know, creating a community of people that are saying, hey, looks aren't the most important thing to me, and ultimately, you know, for us as well, you know, the puzzles a bit of a middle finger to the rest of the dating industry that we do think exactly what you've said they're dean is you know, they're all

pretty much pretty similar and they've got the same formula. Um. So yeah, we're really just trying to you know, change that up, to do something completely different and disrupt the industry is something that you know, um, me and Max feel really really personally strong about that it should be one of the most progressive and most important industries in the world, but for some reason it seems to have stagnated over the last few years, and we really just

want to push that forwards and you know and create something that genuinely creates more connections and people going through the numbers game in the right, which is talking and meeting lots of people rather than you know, saying yes or known. Swiping left or right primarily based on photos are a Lot of Love is Blind. Have you seen

that show? Yeah, totally, Yeah, exactly, And we've got something, you know, we've had something similar over in the UK, and it's it's definitely something that's coming up as a little bit more and more of a trend now, which is great for us to see. You know, people are starting to you know, understand and analyzed what dating has become. You know, in modern times, it has unfortunately become more

and more superficial. And I think it's I think it's a bit of a combination of both Tinder and Instagram basically came out in exactly the same year, so you've almost got that like combination of two like huge viral successes that have like pointed society in a certain direction. And then suddenly everyone's like right now, and especially through covid, you know, we've taken stock and gone, wait a minute. You know, these products are what we're using every day,

But are they actually the best thing for me? Are they actually long term going to give me, you know, the happiness that I'm looking for? Yeah? I think Filter has really changed the game, you know, as they made everybody look you know, they saw some people online looking perfect like well, I want to look perfect. Yeah, exactly, And it's it's you know, it's the combination of you know, sort of you know, put plastic surgery as well in terms of you know, fillers and things like that they've

taken off massively as well. And it's all this sort of almost comes from this sort of facewarping side of things. I mean, on our app we've we've banned any facewarping filters. Um it's also really important for us as well, Right, if you're going to put invest time in having a conversation with someone, you want to make sure the person who unveil is actually looks like what they look like in real life. Um so, so yeah, I mean it's

you know, it's taken, it's taken an interesting direction. But I think I think there's you know, there's a change happening and we and we want to lead that. How do you how do you combat that? Like the cat fishing aspect of it, like you're just talking about, because I mean there's only so much you know, the you can scrub I guess until like eventually someone meets a person and they're like, wait, this is the person I'm supposed to be meeting is there like a way that

you're able to like like weave that out. Yeah, totally. So we just have UM. So we have a verification in the application where we ask our users to take a selfie. UM, they send in and it gets compared by human to the actual photos and what they look like. Uh. And you know you can a lot of other companies use sort of AI and things to try and do that and like triangulate the face. I guess. Funny enough,

we do use that to cover the face and the puzzle. Um. But yeah, we use all of our users photos that are submitted to very verification or all done by humans. So it's just you know, do they look the same, yes, If do they not look the same, no, And if they don't look the same, you know they get rejected, right right. I mean I've never I've never actually officially been catfish, but I've been misled. Uh, you haven't big catfish that you know of, you you could have been

catfish and just never like met up with the person. Fair, very fair. I mean I definitely was pretty flaky. I did need to put a lot of people. I was probably the worst person to ever be on a dating it because I was always like super interested, and I

would like lose interest. And then in the right there were people that were I'm surprised you didn't cancel on me tonight when they were you know, five years ago, when they were like fit in that, drinking as much and like all that stuff, and then you meet them in person, you're like, wait a second, this isn't it right. I never had a cat fishing experience. Yeah, it's um, you know, it's it's a it's a really a big deal,

and it's it's something a lot of people are worried about. Um. And I'm sure probably after a couple of times when you met someone dean and they weren't exactly who they said they were, probably part of the reason you might have flaked later on because you're like, you know, do I want to meet this personal they're going to be actually who they say they were, So so I think, you know, dating apps can definitely do a lot more

in that respect. We've recently seen Tinder has only in the last six months actually bringing brought on verification bumble did it way before that. I'm not sure we're hinges at with that at the moment. I'm not sure they've got it right now. But um, but for me personally, you know, I think it's it's something that should be

almost mandatory for all dating apps out there. It's becoming you know, catfishing, and not only cat fishing, but also you know, just people feel more responsible the second they've verified their folk profile as well, and we all know the horrific problems of abuse on dating apps. And for me, you know, I hope that you know, governments do take some positive steps forward in terms of dating apps and

making this sort of stuff mandatory fall in the platforms. Yeah, this is a good spin on dating apps because I feel like a lot of dating apps are similar obviously, right, whether it be bumble or tender or hinge, like, they all have their different unique qualities about them, but none

of them are changing the game. Where I feel like Jigsaw is trying to change the game and saying, Okay, we have all of these dating apps, all of these social media tools where the first thing you see is someone's picture, why don't we try to flip that on its head? And the first thing you know about someone is their personality and then they reveal themselves physically and exactly and and how that works as well as the

puzzle only unveils through mutual communication. So if I send you a hundred messages Jared like, and you send me one back, there's only two pieces. So it has to be that back and forth. It has to be two p people being real, right, And that's why you know jigsaws and you know our tagline really is reveal what's real because the only thing that's real is communication. Before that, you're just looking at profiles. You're just looking at photos

that is not real. The only time you get to a real position is when you're talking to someone, Alex, how do you match people there? Like? Because you know there's let's say Jigsaw has a million users, right like, yeah, five thousand girls poking a thousand guys. Am I just gonna match with any of those five people? Like randomly? Or is there like a like a personality like quiz or like so we have so so you can so

you know, we use a sign up to the app. Um. You know, we accommodate you know, all gender identities that we actually follow Facebook standard there um, So you you sign up in that way, you then choose what you're looking for, and that's you know, whoever you choose who anybody, uh, you choose for the gender that you are, you're looking for people who identify you, choose the distance away from you,

and the age range. We also have a feature which is called day outside the Box, which is actually just give me anybody anywhere and I'll see what happens, which I also was like, it's almost like our anti filter, because we're we really against you know, these laundry lists that people have which are like, you know, I need x y z da da da da da um. You know, we really tried to come away from that, but very similar to a lot of other dating apps out there, you know, we there is a bit of a gold

standard there. What we do want to follow, which is, you know, a profile you can build so you can add you know, of course your name, your age, essential pieces as we call it, so that's you know, you're drinking habits, you're eating habits, or exercising habits. We specifically don't ask for height, you know, waight, ethnicity, but we do ask for things like religion. We ask for things

ultimately that aren't superficial labels for yourself. And we also have these Q and A templates you know that make things super easy for you to respond and show your personality, and you upload up to four photos but remembers only the face covered in the jigsaw puzzles. So we don't want to restrict all imagery completely because pictures can speak

of other words. So you know, if you have got pictures of you, you know, doing your hobbies out and about, we want you to get to showcase that and showcase your personality through that. So it legitimately just shows you. As you talk more, you're really getting certain puzzle pieces. Exactly is there like any algorithm that like you start with the eyes and then you move on or is

it just completely random? And so we try like as I said, as I said earlier, like we're not in the business of wasting people's time, and looks to matter ultimately, and what we're trying to create is that fifty fifty right if this is this is not us saying looks don't matter, you know, get over it. No, they do, you know. So it is a fundamental part of how people are attracted to each other. So early on we tried to give away sort of some some key parts

of the face. We give up like in the within the first two pieces that unveil is either sort of an eye mouth knows you know. The thing's eyes are obviously really really important, especially for people to know engage and make sure you know, they see that that person is real as well, which is really a hoortant um. So what we do is when users um are searching for other users, one piece is already unveiled, and then when you like someone, a second piece unveils, and then

when you match. So when two people like each other to see the match, you can also send a message to match um. Then you go into the matches screen, and then when you unveil each other, there's seven mutual messages to unveil each other completely. But as I said, you you can get you can get you know, a good idea of what somebody looks like after sending sort of two or three messages. It just sounds it sounds fun.

It sounds like it's like a thing like where you're logging on you're like excited for the process of unveiling someone you know, like like Jared said, like love is blind, uh, but just like on a dating platform where it's like yeah, you start to chip away and like learn about each other, but then you unlock her knows and you're like, oh my gosh, this girl just keeps getting better and better. Look at that. Knows love that. I love that positivity.

But yeah, it's exactly you know, and it's that's exactly what we're going for. We know, it's as we we've all you know, grown attached to our owns. You know that gamification is something that obviously people need to stay you know, engaged with MAP and that's what that's what

we try to provide with that. But ultimately, you know, we're just we're just trying to get people to talk to each other more and just you know, as as as I actually was listening a list day to a podcast from you guys, a couple of episodes back about It Mentions and schmucks. Oh yeah, her name is Robin Yeah, she um yeah, and she she was just go. She she she really framed online dating in a great way.

She was I think you guys were talking about sort of dating in New York and just how fast paced it is, and she was like, just just like online dating, nobody gives anyone a chance. And that's the problem that so many people that could be a potential partner for you, within a split second you said no to because you just didn't have the time for one little thing you saw you didn't like, or you know, just something on your laundry list that wasn't ticked but actually saw too

many options. That's one of the issues. Yeah, everybody has the mentality of the grass is always greener on the other side. So it's like, yeah, this girl is great or this guy is great, but I have twenty other people I can meet as well, so like, maybe I

should focus on them instead. And so I do think that sometimes marriage isn't as successful the days, just for the simple fact that there's just so many more options were thirty years ago, you know, there was the lack of the communication, lack of technology so you can communicate with people who lived in different parts of the country. It was like, no, you marry people in your neighborhood and your city and your states, so on and so forth. But Dean, Dean, I wanted to ask you, what's your

favorite part what's your favorite part of someone's face? So if you were to unveil unveil somebody's face for like, what part would you want to see first? Well, I think about that. I want to I want to say my least favorite thing about dating apps that I've experienced has been to your point here that when you're talking to someone and you know that they're talking like twenty other guys, that always just really kind of hurts me quite a bit, you know, like you know, you can

just kind of pick up on those things. Um, So I'm sure Jake saw is obviously much different because like you, like you were saying, Alex takes a little bit of time to oncover them. But away's my favorite part of someone's face. Man. I was kind of thinking about this random of the other day. I really admire caling smile a lot, uh, and she's been open about it. Caitlin

has Berniers, like you know, like different four teeth. So it's like I always kind of think it's funny to me that one of my favorite things about her is a smile, because you know her teeth are fake. But but it's not. It's not it's not just the teeth, like it's you know, it's when when somebody smiles. You're smiling right now, Dean, and you're making me smile, right so, like it's a very smile he does, doesn't. I agree? I agree, there's more to it. Than just the teeth.

But but I would say smile nine times out of ten is the first thing I look at that and not just in people of the opposite sex, but like you know, if you're meeting a new friend for the first time or something like that. I don't know why, but like my eyes always go towards the smile. What about you guys, Yeah, definitely think yes, smiling eyes are really up there. I mean obviously just that eye contacts in you know, in real life, you know, conversation and situation.

You know, that's you know, just you can you can see a lot of things in the eyes. Have you seen that thing as well where they compare um like eyes to galaxies and how mind blow? So that's another time I have to say eyes for that reason, that's cool. I didn't know that. I gotta look more into that they compare eyes to galaxy. It's just like it's just like artistic rendition or like you know of like comparing an eye to a galaxy and you can see the

way it's like swirling. I'm sure you've seen them, you know, you know, Yeah, that's pretty cool. I guess my favorite part is definitely eyes. Sometimes it actually makes fun of me. You know, what I really like is it's just random. But when girls do like cat eyes, I love. I

love cat eyes too, brilliant. I think they're great. So like, if if the puzzle piece was coming together and there were cat eyes, I'd be like, oh, I'm not only do you have that, but you also at the same time like having a conversation where you're the personality each

other's understanding each other's sense of humor. And then boom, you know, suddenly those eyes mean ten times more because not only are those eyes you like, but that also you like combined with a personality like person so important. Alex was Alex was talking about eye contact, and eye contact is one of the things that I'm worsed at, so I, uh, you should work on that a little bit. But but yeah, no, I agree. Sometimes it can be awkward. So I can understand that I'm not good at eye

contact either. I I respect people who are. But I noticed that when I'm listening to someone, I'm very good at eye contact. I'll look in their eyes when I'm listening. As soon as I start talking, I look away. Absolutely don't know why that is. There's definitely some sort of actually I couldn't put it any better myself. I thought that was just like an awkward British thing to not look at people's eyes. Feel better about that. I mean,

I'd love to be British. I feel like women find British accents way sexier than you know, my Rhode Island accent where I can't pronounce words properly. Um, wait, Jared, before move on, are you saying that you wish that women found you more attractive? Uh? Yeah, you're married. Oh well, like I don't mean like I was trying to think of like my now I don't really cares right right, but I'm still a little vain. I want, like, you know, I want my wife to you know, look at me

and be like damn yeh was sexy. Yeah, definitely need the affirmation. Yea, this is this is a bit off topic, but it was a pretty funny thing that happened. Like an hour ago. I was playing golf right with Wells and a couple other buddies, and I was explaining our podcast to one of the buddies and Wells looks at me and he goes, yeah, that's exactly it makes perfect sense. Too, good looking white guys talking about how hard dating is. I don't know. I just thought that was so funny

to me because it was like, it's very true. Every time I did I'm not gonna lie. I did think that going onto here, I was like, right, I'm about to come onto this. These guys are incredibly good looking. How am I gonna gage this? We're just trying to We're trying to help to you know. Um, well, Alex, thank you so much for joining us. Say, we really appreciate So Jigsaw is coming to the States for everybody that's listening. You guys are in New York City right now,

I believe. Yeah. Actually, over the last few days, we've started going U slide so um togeah, we're a Vaila will you know, download it everywhere you know ums as we as you know dating, you know, it's really about sort of how many people are on the app as well as much as how good the app is. So you know, we're doing our best trying to acquire as many users as possible for as many people to meet

as possible. So so yeah, try it out wherever you are, and we're all is for feedback, you know, just just come at us and we'll we'll make it someone like me that's not looking for a relationship, but I could always use more friends. Is there like a friendship component

to that? Yeah, totally. So when you come on part of the essential pieces, one of the infotags, you know, you say what you're looking for, and you know, if you you don't know what you're looking for, great, you know there's other people on there who don't know what they're looking for. And it's exactly that. It's you know, it's a place for people to come and communicate, and it's you know, it's a community of people that are, as I said, looking beyond the looks, and they're people

who people who don't prioritize looks at the top. And that's exactly what you know, what jigsaws for. Cool? Awesome man, Well, thank you again, So everybody listening, you can go on the Apple Store or a Google Play downloading download Jigsaw right now. It is available United States wide. Alex Dourant, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it, man, amazing chez. Thanks having me guys. Thanks man. All right,

welcome back to help I suck at dating. And before we get into our favorite segment of the podcast, which of course is your wonderful emails. I have to say something because I feel like a buffoon right now. So Dean, when we record this podcast, and I'm actually admitting this not to the not just the audience right now, but also our producers and editors, I I have an apple

next to me, because you know, we're sitting down. I was like, oh, I'll mute myself on zoom because what happens is we record via zoom, right, and then I have my mic set up over here which we record audio. Marc is shaking his head. I think he knows where I'm going with this. I have an apple next to me, and I was like, oh, no problem. Every time him I take a bite in the apple, I will mute myself.

Makes sense, right. The problem is the audio that is you are listening to the audience is listening to comes from my mic. And unfortunately, like an idiot, I didn't put two and two together because I never muted myself on the audio that our producers used. I just muted myself on the zoom. So my question is there might be some apple sounds in the background, which I had

a lightbulb moment. It was like, literally, right, at the end of our interview with Adam and I was like, wait a minute, I'm muting myself on zoom, but people can still hear hear me chewing my apple on the mic. So I just wanted to say, I'm so sorry about that. So what you're saying is you're sparing the four of us from having to listen to you an apple, but you're making everyone that listens to the podcast have to listen to you. Yeah. I think that's exactly what I'm saying.

I feel really stupid right now. So later the do I feel stupid every day? Uh? You know what, at the end of the day, I think people are probably gonna like listening to Oh I beg to differ that one. So later this afternoon, when you're relaxing on the couch, maybe getting a massage, whatever you bachelor guys do in your spare time, I'm gonna be here sweating, editing out, apple crunching throughout an entire podcast. You know, Mark, Uh, you're a good man. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

All we ask And by the way, I've gotten into this before with Jan and Mike. It's one hour a week. Is there any way to not eat for that one hour. I I will start doing that from now. And honestly, man, I thought I was like I cracked the code because I was like, oh, I'll have an apple, I'll just mute myself, bought a ban bought a boom, and then it's like just popped in my head. I have no idea why I didn't think of this earlier. If I was like, wait a minute, I'm muting myself on zoom.

They're using my audio from this recorder. I'm not muting myself on this recorder. Oh boy. So you know, Mark, you're just a good man and you deserve all the good things in this world. And uh, I sincerely let me. We're going to get you a bottle of wine. Fashion. I just want to get you a nice We're gonna put the people on it. We're going to figure that out for you. You had to listen to my husband eat an apple. We that he doesn't drink. We can't get wine. I have wine sometimes he doesn't drink. And

why are you barging into my podcast? I'm barging in. Do you guys if I barged into almost famous? I wish you would. I wish you would it's fun. I literally cannot believe that you ate an apple for somebody else to hear, because I think anybody I think it's disgusting. I didn't think anybody was hearing it. I never get annoyed with him, except for when he's eating a damn apple. I thought I beat the system. I was like, I

have this brilliant idea. I an you always have to say, make sure that you take that out on my track. Didn't know I'm going to send you a montage of you eating an apple. O kill me, do me a favorite next time you and Ashal decided to getting an argument just uto well here on the podcast, but we don't want to hear it on that I'm just doing them at least. Oh boy, oh boy. All right, let's hear an email here froming out of us. I'm twenty

six years old. I'm gonna happy to your committed relationship, and long story short, I never told my partner about my sexual assault that happened to me when I was twenty two. It happened, as far as I'm concerned, I'm healed, but recently over the holidays, my family brought it up over dinner, saying how thankful they were for my partner and proud of me for finally opening up after what happened to me. They didn't know I've never had this

conversation with my boyfriend. He was upset that I never shared that information with him, and after two years of being together, things have been weird since. I guess my question is, is this something you have to tell a significant other? Am I wrong for thinking it's personal information only I can give if I want. Would Jared or Dean or Mark or Easton be upset if your partner kept that or other traumatic situations of themselves? UM, I'll

feel this one first. I guess I'm gonna say, uh, it's your story, so you should be able to share it if and when you ever want to. Um. Kaylin obviously has had an experience of sexual assault when she was in college. She shared that with Colton on her season, and then you know, obviously became a very public thing. But there are still times where I feel uncomfortable bringing it up, and so it's like, you know, it's not my thing to talk about. I'll talk about with her

if she wants to talk about it. But at the end of the day, you're the one that experienced it. It's up to you to decide, like I said, if and when you share it with anyone. Um, it's funny because we listen to a lot of like true crime podcasts, and a lot of the true crime podcasts that we listened to, and uh involve sexual assault and that kind of stuff, and not too long ago, be like a

month or two ago. I like, I was like talking to Kaylin, I was like, sometimes I feel awkward listening to these podcasts with all the sexual assaults because, like, you know, you've been through a very similar traumatic situation. UM. And I think at the end of the day, like I would never pry her to talk about it, like she wants to talk about it, that's great. Um, I don't think that you owe it to anyone to share anything about yourself that you don't want to share. So

that's my take on it. Like he might be upset, I think the reason that he would be upset is because he's like, well, you should be able to tell me everything, like I want to know everything about you, blah blah blah. But again, I think your desires about sharing your own stories supersedes anything that he could want to take from you. To like receive from you. You know. That's my take on it. Yeah, I completely agree. I mean I couldn't have a word it any better than Dan.

It's your story to tell. I can understand why he wants you to feel comfortable sharing those stories, but it's up to you. But you know, that's a traumatic experience

for anybody, and people grieve in different ways. Um So yeah, I I don't think you should feel any type of guilt for not sharing it with your significant other, right well, and don't don't let him make you feel bad too if for not sharing it, like that's like I I think that's like borderline manipulation in a way, Like you shouldn't feel guilty about not sharing something that you already

feel bad about, you know. It's like you should just do what you need to do to make yourself happy, like said, Yeah, like we've been saying, we've kind of equit each other. It's like, just share what you're comfortable with. Yeah, that's my take on it, Mark, Do you have any more stage input on that? No? I agree. I think it's weird for him to be weird about it because he has no idea what it is, how traumatic it was, and is for you. I think it's very weird for

him to make it weird. So I'm hoping he can get over that because otherwise it's a red flag. Well, my thing is, like I kind of understand, I understand why he's upset, and I like I could see myself getting upset about something similar, you know what I mean. But like I think that I would hope at least I could see maybe like once I get some more perspective about how silly it was that I was upset. But like, I think it's easy to be off the bat be like, well, why were you withholding this from me?

Like why hadn't you told me about this? Yeah, I'm sure he wants her to feel comfortable sharing those stories. But at the same time, you know, it's a you know, it's a traumatic experience, Like it's difficult to talk about. So like, if you know it, I think, just let her talk about it when she wants to talk about it. I don't know, I mean, but like I said, like I said, I always want to make a point. I can see why I can understand why he's upset, right,

I think we can all understand why he's upset. But like, yeah, like I think we've all said it's it shouldn't linger like, he shouldn't continuously be upset once he understands why he shouldn't be upset, I think that's all right. Here's Marie Chloe. She says, how do you know if a guy's read it a date? I've been single for amost seven years now, I'm twenty six, but I've dated a few guys during

this time. They all seem super interested. At first. They pursue me, they give me gifts, they organized thoughtful dates and pre COVID times. But after a while they suddenly changed their minds and say they can't give me what I want. How could I know what guys actually interested? Ready to date and not lying to themselves. That is a great freaking question. Here's my knee jerk reaction to why or what you could do is I'm not saying

this is what she's doing. Um, I think maybe she's giving herself up too much too soon, and the longer you with like hold, I'm speaking like physically speaking right, Like a lot of guys are willing to put the effort in to receive what they want physically from the person that they're pursuing. And once they get that physical satisfaction, then they kind of like like, Okay, cool, I got

it onto the next conquest kind of thing. That's like my interpretation of it, probably because I've been that guy before too, so my advice would be too, um, maybe like withhold that part of the relationship for a little bit to see if you can find a guy that's actually willing to stick around for the long come. Yeah. I also think if he's playing games of any sort, then he's not mature enough to be in a sophisticated relationship.

I feel like a lot of my friends that are girls that are are single, they always talk about well, like do I say this? Do I do I ask him to hang out? Now? My am I coming off too strong? He hasn't texted me. Do I reach out to him? Uh? He he called me? What should I

read into this? And then like it's just like this constant back and forth where I feel like you just need to be honest, you know, let the other person know what your goals are, tell them how you feel, and if if they're not ready, then they're not ready. But like, I just feel like so many times I've heard like my friends that are girls say, well, I don't want to let him know how I feel because I'm afraid of losing him. You know, I'm afraid that

he's he's gonna he's gonna be too scared. And it's like, well, then he's not ready to be in a relationship, and then you'll know, and then you can move on. And if when you move on, if he comes back, then go from there. But I don't know. I just feel like if he's playing games, that's one way to tell he's not ready to be in a relationship. I think Cloth is not covering us the whole story though here

I think that she's leaving something out. She's saying, how all these guys say they can't give me what I want? So I'm wondering what she's what impression she's giving these guys, What vibe she's giving these guys that makes them head for zy hills, Like does she bring up marriage very quickly, or she started making plans for two years from now, or that sort of thing that is scaring them. I get a certain point when a lot of guys leave in a similar fashion, you gotta look a little inward

and say, what am I doing? That is kind of pushing these people away, and maybe it is the rematurity. I don't know. Beyond that, I always say the thirty three is the magic number for guys. Guys when they hit thirty three, they realize it's time to settle down, it's time to look for something serious, because they can't be kids anymore. Mark, Uh, you're wrong, and I'm gonna tell you why. Great, Okay, I've been the guy that

has used that excuse before. I can't give you what you want, and that's what it is, is an excuse. I'm I'm finding a way to make to soften the blow of telling this person I no longer want to date them anymore. And it again in my personal experience. You know, I'm speaking from experience, Mark, You're only speaking hypothetically, So I think mind care is a little more weight here. Um. From that experience, it was never a projection of the

person that I was saying that too. It was always a reflection of me being like, well, I don't want anything serious, and so I'm just gonna tell them that I can't give them what they want, which I don't think anytime I use that as an excuse. I wasn't ever like pressured into anything. It was just a matter of me like having that was my like outcard every single time, you know, so like, and again, you're right, we could use some more information. I'll give you that.

Like we we obviously don't know all the ins and outs. But I just don't think that she my gut tells me that she's not asking for a lot, and the guys that she's talking to are just using that cop out excuse to bail could be Yeah, So I'm sorry. I didn't mean. I didn't mean to like, you know, get angry with you or like, Okay, that's what we need on this podcast. You know, we need some back and forth to give the people the answers they they

desire right now. Be pretty confident that answer too. I I I think that Mark's thirty three rule the age of thirty three. I mean, I'm biased when I say this. I think it's wrong as well, because I'm not thirty three yet. And so what am I saying? Am I not ready to settle down? I don't know. I mean, that's exactly what we're saying. That's probably pretty true. Yeah, it took me saying it out loud to realize how true. Before we get going, we do have one more hot

topic we want to address. Uh. Kanye West is reportedly not doing well amid split from Kim Kardashian. Quote from a source, he knows what he is losing. This is from People dot Com And obviously Kanye and Kim looked like they're heading towards a divorce and quote, like I said, Kanye is not doing well. He's anxious, very sad. He knows that the marriage is over and there's nothing that

can be done right now. He also knows what he is losing with Kim, and unfortunately, the source goes on to say that are just not on the same page when it comes to their future, their family, and Kim is okay with that sort of appears that there is very little hope for a future and Kim is the one who doesn't want to get back together with Kanye. Dean, what are your thoughts about Kim and Kanye being done the Power couple? It's over, it's over. Third ball you

just throw at the end of the podcast. We never end the You can thank Becky just for sending it in the chat. Kim and Kanye calling it quits. I mean, is it wrong to say, I just don't care. I like, I really just don't care. Kanye stopped being cooler on like two dozen eight after he dropped graduation, and then he just kind of like went fully off the rails. Kim, Um, Kim, Actually, I think it's a bad rap. I think that she is a little bit has a little more depth to

her than people give her credit for it. But I still just I just genuinely do not care. Ever since being with Ashley, I've grown so much more respect for the Kardashian family and everything than they do because those women are impressive. Uh they are just business savvy. They know what they're doing. Uh yep. Everything is calculated, but it's to further their careers and they do an incredible job at it. Uh So Kanye, I think probably yeah, is is regretting his I don't know. I don't know

how it broke up. I don't know who broke up with who. It feels like Kim was like, Okay, Kanye, I can't deal with it anymore. We gotta move on. And maybe Kanye regrets some of his actions that led to them getting a divorce, But like, I'm kind of on the same page with you. I don't really care honestly, Like I I respect the Kardashians a lot, but and I you know, I like Kanye's music, but I don't like they'll be fine. Kim will have another like forty

day marriage like she did with what's his face? What was that basketball player's name, Tristan Thompson. No, not Tristan Tomas. She was. That was Chloe who humphries Chris humph Remember she was married to him for like, what was it forty days? Babe, seventy two days she was married to Chris Humphres before they off off the top of her head. Here's my thing about it. It's like, people, someone just got divorced today, and Ohio, you know, I don't like

it sucks. I'm upset that they just got divorced, But like, these people are no different than those other people that are also getting divorced, And so it's like, how am I going to extend more caring towards these two people just because they're qute unquote famous rather than the other people that are getting divorced. It's like, fair point, I care as much about that as I do about you know, just divorced in general. As an institution. I think you

guys know my feelings about marriage. I think it's stupid. I know that you're both married, and I know that I sound stupid saying that, but that's just how I feel. So until you get married one day, and you know what, honestly, I'm gonna get married, I'm gonna look myself dead in the mirror and I'm gonna say you are so stupid. Yeah, you stupid as all right, Well, that'll do it with for this week's help, I Suck at Dating episod owe a big thank you too, of course. Our guest, the

CEO and co founder of Jigsaw, Alex Durant. Make sure you check out Jigsaw, the new dating app. Uh. It is available on Apple Store and Google Play. UH and thank you to all the emailers anonymous and of course Mary Chloe for emailing us. We love your emails. Please keep send anything them in. You can follow us on Instagram. Help by suck a Dating and I think that's it. Anything else team, Uh, don't forget to email us. We love the emails. I suck at dating at iHeart media

dot com. Keep them coming. Let us know what you think about Kim and Kanye. You know, maybe we'll talk about it. We probably I hope we don't, but we might email us. I suck a Dating at I heard media dot com talk more about some dating questions. The dating questions we had today. Actually, I think we're pretty they were good questions, so keep those up. Um that's all I got though. Thank you guys for listening. Be sure to tune in next week, where maybe we suck

just a little bit less. Follow help by Suck at Dating on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to podcast