Master Manipulators

I think we've talked about on the podcast. Uh, you're right, Well, we haven't really recorded a podcast since Tahoe two weeks ago. I feel like we haven't recorded any podcasts lately. Were you gonna say and Tori, I was gonna say, Anto, No, It's okay, wait what um? Well, for the listeners out there, I just wanted to introduce you as a guest on the podcast this week. A co host our guest co host Tory, who's a contributor to the podcast, because sometimes

you do, sometimes you don't contribute. You know, you always contribute, it's just whether she contributes on air, that's yeah. That's also I'm always I'm always the wind beneath your wings. Anyways, Yes, Jared, I did adapt a duped well, Kalin and I adopted Peppi. Congratulations man, that's super exciting. Thanks. Uh. Yeah, he's been a laptor, great clapping, I mean, and now they're married, they have kids. He's been a little lately. I like came home, I went back to Caalen's apartment today and

he was like, yeapping away. He always cries when we're gone, and he's peas everywhere, And you can't really get mad at that, though. Why is he pas? He get does he get excited? He's got like a bladder problem. He's old. How old he's eleven, he's got he's got a heart murmur, he's got a tumor, he's got dental issues, clearly. But you know what he has now a loving family, my dad and dad. He's got a dad. You're a dad. Yeah, he's pretty cool. We actually we're leaving tomorrow and we're

taking him with us. Were somewhere. Calin bought us a trip somewhere and we're flying with him for the first time. A little interesting and that's a surprise trip. You guys do that a lot, huh. We try to do it once a quarter, once every three months, once a quarter for your business relationship, for the business relation that you're married,

completely for satire. See, the thing is we have you know, we have so much expenses and and and expenditures or month, and if we don't hit our expenses for the for the quarter, then the next quarter our expense has become less. So we have to we have to spend that surplus of money on a business expense, which is us hanging out Kaylin and I traveling. Yeah, as if people couldn't hit us anymore, we've got business expenses, bro. So so you don't know where you're going? Are you nervous at all?

Because because of coronavirus? Not knowing where the euro percent nervous? In fact, I think this whole thing and obviously this is a good topical thing for this discuss and it probably ties into dating. Should you date with the coronavirus out there. I'm personally not afraid of it whatsoever. Other you guys, I think it should be taken seriously, But no, I'm not afraid of it. I don't think it. I think the media is blowing it so out of portion.

And yes, cases are going to go up, and yes, unfortunately people will die from this disease and it is terrible. But the fact is it is a flu strain, and that's what happens. You know, they say, I think, uh, and if if you're over eighty, I think the stat is you have a one in six chance of of dying from the season. But then everybody else it's it's you know, your chances are like point zero zero one too. I I don't know this. I just know if anybody in this whold like our whole heart family, is going

to get it, it's going to be me. You're gonna say it was gonna be one of us. No, I just know my luck, and it's gonna be I'm going to Florida in a couple of days. Then you're what a year old healthy person one same thing. You're literally just turned. You're a young adult who's healthy. There's a zero percent chance that anything is going to happen to you, for the most zero, but you'll be fine. There's a high chance, I like chance of you kidding, yeah, Florida,

I can. I just feel like, I think from from a person that enjoys traveling standpoint, and now is the time to be booking plane tickets and hotels that'd be cheap. No, they're not. That's such a fabrication, not true. I just booked a flight to d C because Ashley and I are going to go visit her family. Not cheap at all domestic and last up buying yes, like the Hawaii right now. Yeah, I know. I just saw that. I was like, uh, somebody from the office, they're going for Bucks.

It's crazy. I don't know who the office is. But why guarantee international flights are super cheap? Right now? Nobody wants to travel international because well, the only nerve wracking part from me would be traveling internationally would be if you did catch it in a different country, then yeah, that's insane that now. And then like you can't go out of your your house unless you have like documentation

that you have to be somewhere. So I saw a meme about this, like China is doing the same thing. Italy is doing that. Like everything well like the like Wuhan and the places where it's sad and then it's it goes to in America is talking about pushing Coachella back a couple of months. Yeah, well there's not a wide spread in America right now. And I think the problem is the way the media is portraying it. They're saying that it's going to spread. It's going to spread.

They're not wrong. But at the same time, we have to anticipate that and not be terrified of it, just like a cold spreads, just like the flu sp I mean us in Los Angeles, we're in a state of emergency right now. Yeah, allegedly all the toilet paper is like gone from Superstars. Yeah, I mean, like, what do we I haven't wiped my button days, you guys, what did we just say? Is that a serious there's no toilet paper? What am I supposed to wipe it with?

You can shower it afterwards, if I showered, Yeah, that would be a good solution. Keep toilet paper stocked in your van. I have toilet paper rolls on my van. Yeah. I don't know if this is true enough, but I remember hearing that Ben our very own, lovely Ben Higgins, after he defecates, he doesn't wipe. He just jumps immediately into the shower if he can. I mean, I'm not

gonna lie. I've done that plenty of times. I was a poor college student for a long time, So you wouldn't buy toilet paper if I, like, let's say we ran out, I hadn't gone to the store for a while. I didn't have the funds to go to the store. Just jump in the shower. That seems so cross to me on the double up on the soap, but I that is interesting. Should you go on dates during coronavirus tory? You're the only single one amongst us. Would you go on a day right now? Someone asked you. You know

what's funny. I was at the like a somebody's birthday party at Roccos the other day, like on sunset. Yeah, that's landspasses bar. Somebody else told me that I didn't know that. Um, And I was like, this is this is probably where I would get it too. And I was at the bar like leaning, and I was like, are you a hypochondriac, because not at all. That's twice now that you've been pretty pretty adamant. I just know

my luck and I'll get it. But um, I haven't thought about germs before really until now, where I'm like, oh, for sure, the bar is just getting like smeared with like a wet rag. There's no like sanitation, and that is a lot of people putting their hands on the bar being like, give me another ring. Well, two things you can always remember to do is wash your hands constantly for twenty seconds each time with soap and water.

It's very important, Dean. Don't shake your head because I'm I again thinking, of course, this should be taken seriously so we can try to eliminate it as quickly as possible. But at the same time, I don't think there should

be panic. And the way to contain this thing as best as possible wash your hands and then try not to touch your face because then, because like you said, if your hands are on the bar and if you don't wash your hands and then you touch your eye, you could potentially be getting it if somebody at the

bar had it. I'm not worried at all, um about getting it, But my friend made a good point the other day because I was talking to him about it too, and he goes, I don't know, I don't care about getting it, but I'm worried about getting it and spreading it to someone else that could potentially die from it. Like his father, for instance, has had a liver transplant or whatever, I can't remember exactly what it was, and if he got sick, he would essentially, odds are pretty

likely he would die from it. So he's like, I'm scared to get it because I want to give it to my dad kind of thing. Of course, No, that's a very real thing that people need to be aware of because, like you said, us in this room, knock on wood, we probably don't have too much to worry about because even if even if we get it, we'll

be able to fight it off hopefully pretty easily. But like you said, if we get it and we continue to live our daily lives and we, you know, give this to somebody who doesn't have as good as immune system as us or is elderly, that could cause issues. And I think that's why people are trying to contain this, because they know that most people will be fine, but they want to save as may a lot as possible.

If you get it, hopefully have a hot doctor. Talking about hot doctor, hot doctor to take care of you well for you, quarantine that's kind of more for you. I just want a good doctor anyways. So, so your plan is to go to Florida coronavirus, get quarantined with what's the dude's name from Grey's Anatomy, The Gray Hair One McDreamy. No, that was not that's not dreamy. Mcam patrick one. I don't know you guys anyway, you guys fall in love. I get cured of coronavirus. Listen, I know,

happily ever after. I know. We could talk for days about hot doctors and coronavirus, but we do need to move on. We watch part one of The Bachelor finale last night, and we have doctor Nancy Lee coming in as a guest in our next segment. She's going to dissect that a little bit with us. Yes, she's the author of Don't Sleep with Him Yet, A Badass Guy to Dating in ten Empowering Steps. All that and more coming up after this quick break. Welcome back. We have

a very special guest just joining us right now. She's a psychologist. She's also the author of Don't Sleep with Him Yet, A Badass Guy to Dating inten Empowering Steps. It is Dr Nancy Lee. Doctor. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. Hi guys, thanks for having me. Of course, So did you watch the first episode of the first part of the finale of the Bachelor last night? Oh? Yes, definitely, what are your thoughts interesting? Really?

We're here describe the whole show really interesting. We won't get me started on mothers, but that's a whole other episode. Love is definitely blind, um, but it's also interesting to see that people were really standing up for themselves, both Hannah and Madison. I basically, Hannah was you know, I need more. So it's like a lot of believe it or not. But a lot of women don't do that,

like they don't really assert themselves in relationships. At Madison too, she was saying this is this is me, take it or leave it. So that was impressive. Yeah, I thought both of them repressive. Why wouldn't you start on mother's because I am curiosity, because I know because I am a mother. I the Barbara takes pushiness to a whole other level. I mean, basically, how do you make a determination if somebody is quote unquote perfect for somebody else

by meeting them once? So you didn't like Barbe telling Peter that he should pick handhand not madisone. I tend to throw away all the shoods, especially when they come from meeting somebody once who is just gushing about somebody she does even though and by the way, as a psychologist, I think perfect is scary. I mean, really, what's I always if I meet somebody who seems perfect, I kind of feel like what is hiding is perfect? Right, what's

hiding behind the perfection? I'd also argue there's no such thing as somebody who's perfect for you. Yes, I agree. You take a relationship, you make it right, you choose one and absolutely you choose one another, you make it work. So I also like to toss out the word perfect.

I think what I at least experienced when I watched the show last night was the reason Barbara got so attached to Hannah Anne was because they were basically a mirror of each other in my opinion, like Canna and was super emotional in that whole conversation, and barbaras obviously is a little emotional as well. And they even look alive. Yeah, she even like Barbara made that comment, Oh my god, she this this gorgeous. This woman is breathtakingly gorgeous. And

she reminds me of us. I was curious what you looked like thirty years ago. Google her. She actually looks like him. Interesting. They're very similar types. And by the way, psychologically, we tend to have an inherent bias towards people who are like us, whether we're talking about like romantic relationships or weighing in on somebody else's relationship, but we have an inherent bias towards somebody like us. And there's the Oedipus right, Yeah, big time, we're seeing pictures of Barbed

as a younger woman. Yeah, I can see the similars between even in the in the thirty year or whatever gap that we saw last night. You see some I saw similarities appearance. I think they look more like last night than what I'm seeing right now. But I get it. So I guess tie back into your let's tide into your book. So don't sleep with him yet? Is the book that you wrote? Um, let's let's go and just

think about Peter's experience in fantasy suits. We can't assume he obviously didn't sleep with Maddie because they never spent the night together. We don't know what him in hand it, but they were intimate. Per Peter's words, do you think that has that has any bearing on or any indication on what he's going to do from I don't think it's fantasy sweets per se. I just think it's everything how he feels about the woman. He seems to be really like absolutely in love with Madison at this point

at least. Also, it's really interesting because the type people either love or hate the title of my book, So I was choosing something meant to be provocational, but it really is about throwing out the rules, throwing out the shoods, like basically sleeping with somebody whenever it's right for you. Ironically, like there's so much quote unquote i'll call it virgin shaming so or or even just women who maybe don't want to hook up straight away, you know, or have

sex on a really early date. So a lot of like those women are saying, oh my gosh, thanks for writing this book. But like I'm also hearing from women who are like really getting in touch with their sexuality because I say, also, like there are times where a woman wants to sleep with somebody immediately, and that's fine. Just understand, like just understand yourself, to quote The Bachelor, make sure you're doing it for the right reason, the

right reasons. So yeah, yeah, that's perfect. Well, Jar, what do you think because from from our perspective or from my perspective at least, uh, Peter wants what he hasn't had yet, which is, you know, he hasn't had the intimacy with Maddie. Obviously, that's it's deeper than that, and there's more, there's more to it than that. But from

my experience, I've experienced that before too. It's like you always kind of want the thing that you haven't gotten yet or can't have, and so that's kind of why I feel like this like burning desire to be with Maddie is so strong for him at the moment. What do you think, Yeah, I agree, I think Peter. I think Peter is suffering from nice guy syndrome where he's trying to please everybody, and yet he seems to be making everybody upset, because that's what happens. You can't please everybody.

And I think you talked about how Madison and Hannah and and We're good last night in the episode Doctor, because they really vocalized what exactly they wanted. I'm not sure if Peter has done a good enough job of doing that with the women thus far um because I think that he keeps he keeps trying to say what he believes is right in the moment, But I'm not sure it's really what he believes. And so I think it's really costing him at this point because it's it's

very obvious that he's more into Madison than Hannah. And but I agree with Dean. I think that he's so into Madison because Madison is showing signs of well, I don't want to be with you, and so he wants what he can't have. And also, you know, I just think again, I like Peter. I think he's a nice guy. I've kind of felt like this from the beginning. He might have just not been ready to be the Bachelor, because I think that you have to be ready to

a certain extent. And and then last night, everybody like, how many times do we hear about his lifestyle and him clubbing and going out. It's like, Oh, that's that's weird. Why is there Why is there family concerned about that? And then so I think that's why I hope he picks Hannah and because I think that him and Hannah

and are just a better fit. I was pretty vocal on Twitter about being pro team Hannah and and I feel like you and I might be in the vast minority there because it seems like everyone wants him to pick Maddie, maybe because he does seem so much more polarized by her. I think they want to They want him to pick Maddie because they no offense to hand. And I think the majority of people are are are more invested in Madison. They they, for lack of a

better way of phrasing it, they like Madison better. So they're rooting for Maddie. But watching this season, I think Hannah And is a far better quote fit for Peter and his lifestyle. I think Peter the same thing with Hannah and I think they would have a better relationship, except that he may be picking up on something about hannah And that we don't see, because she does seem great. Notice I didn't say the word perfect, but she really does seem great. She's beautiful, she's smart, she's fun to

talk to, she's articulate. But obviously he's not connecting a percent and is all. Is it also coincidental that he his final two or twenty three year olds just out of curiosity? For you? That's really that's that's a great question. I have to give that some thought. Maybe I mean it maybe that the you know, maybe Jared, because of what you said that he's kind of like not quite ready and a little bit immature himself, So he's choosing women who are younger that way. Yeah, that's actually a

really good insight consequential. I guess, you know, you choose the twenty three year old, you get it wrong, it's not as big as if you chose a thirty one year old. I got it wrong, right, And I'm not

even saying he's doing this consciously. I think it might have kind of worked out that way, but I'm curious that there's something under the layer where like we were talking about, maybe there's a part of him that's not ready and he's not coming to terms with that, and then subconsciously he's he's going towards uh, you know, younger women. I don't know what do we think is going to happen tonight for the finale? Part two? Oh gosh, so

I need a crystal ball here here. I think that he's probably is going to connect with Hannah, and because that's kind of like the easiest thing to do right away, hard to say, And of course here I'm thinking about Chris Harrison's this is the most every season, right is a most dramatic Again, tumultuous, but something does happen, does I mean, does he choose Hannah and change his mind? Does Madison come back? So again, I think it's going to be a very like all the Hannah and is

the obvious choice right now. I just don't know that she's going to be like the permanent choice. Also, somebody, Jared, you made a point before about and I think Dean also about what's up with Peter. I think he's the male version of the people pleaser. Um. Typically, we women are much more inclined to be people pleasers than men, just because we're acculturated that way. But I really see

Peter like basically not really standing up for himself. And I'm not just saying last night, but especially like his relationship with Victoria for months, he just doesn't really assert what he wants or needs. I think Dean said, and You're so right that he's worried about everybody else, but he doesn't really stand up for what he wants. You You, you typically see that with a lot of women, so I'm seeing that with him, which is kind of yeah, Oh,

I completely agree. I think again, like we said, he's a nice guy, but sometimes he's a nice guy to a fault because, especially in this world and when you're dealing with relationships and potentially engagements in marriage, you have to be selfish to a certain extent, and you have to vocalize what your expectations are, what your needs are, what your wants are. And I think sometimes, like you said, Peter, at times has just been a little bit reserved and

unwilling to do that because he's trying to please everybody. Yes, and I think it might be costing him now, which sucks because I think if he was just he put his foot down a little bit more, uh, he wouldn't be getting nearly as much backlash as he's getting now. So, Jared, do you have any predictions for tonight? Um? I may have looked some stuff up so well, because I'm just I'm the guy that wants to know, Like my curiosity always gets the best of me, so I have to

look beforehand, especially with this stuff. That's why I'm bad with watching TV shows like I can't wait ten twelve episodes for a season finale like I need. I like movies and I like a beginning, middle, and end all within a two hours. Well, whatever happens tonight, we do know one thing. It's going to be the most dramatic thing in Bachelor history. See Dr Nancy, I want to ask you about Dean. So you brought a piece of

paper in with you. Don't kick me out. It's a safe space, I promise, And uh, explain what's on that piece of paper, and explain the part about Dean that's on that piece of paper. Okay. So again, as a psychologist, I look at different psychological categories and I also don't analyze me, but I have My fun is basically comparing those categories to people that I either just different celebrities and um so what's more fun than analyzing men on

the Bachelor? So, way back way back in September, before there was any inkling that I was going to be a guest on this show, I took a couple of categories that I talked about in my book. It's a whole chapter called Men to Avoid. So there's a lot of fun things in there, like narcissists and serial cheaters and and and soft boys and players. A soft boy is a guy who thinks he's this is not Dean, by the way, but a soft boy, A soft boy. Actually,

it may even be Peter. A soft boy is a guy who thinks he's ready for relationships and acts like he is, but there's no substance there. I've been I've been a soft boy exactly. Okay, then you get it right, Yeah, I mean it's just you put on Yeah, you you put on a facade. I have changed, But you have to, like we talked about before commitment, his choice. You have

to choose the other person every day. But oh yeah, there was a time where I put out this facade that I was ready for marriage and I knew exactly what I wanted and it couldn't be further from the truth exactly. And then the women that you were dating possibly were blindsided by a breakup. Um, I would never let it get that far, but that wouldn't make it

worse obviously. But I got called out by I remember one time I got called out by this girl who uh called me uh an f boy, and that, um, you know, even though we only went on like two dates, um, but that I never gave her a full chance, and that I'm gonna never find anybody if I if I continue just to um, you know, do what I'm doing. Pretty much. I know it's got a ring to it. I don't even know if we kissed. I'm not even joking. And by the way, women do that all the time.

They go on that like attack when they're rejected, and I hate that. By the way, that's just in a side. But anyway, Jared, you didn't make the list. Had we had spoken, you would have. But but Dean did. So I quote unquote called Dean a commitment fobe. I'll tell you that, and I'm happy to read what I wrote. Okay, remember this is this is several months ago, so and this is from me being a psychologist and a major

Bachelor fan. Okay, So, a commitment fobe is truly into you, but he is overtaken by irrational fear and disabling anxiety at the thought of engagement or marriage with anyone. Big blue Eyed Dean Anglert juggled relationships with Christina Shulman and Danielle Lombard on last year's Bachelor in Paradise without ever

committing to either woman. Later, after forging a relationship with Leslie Murphy on Bachelor Winter Winter Games, the couple continued seeing one another after the show, including Dean's giving Leslie a kit to the house, but he eventually broke up with her as well. Recently, Dean ditched his In Paradise partner Kaylin Miller keys By abruptly leaving the show, only to return weeks later and convince Kaylin, by then involved with Connor, to dump Connor and run off with him.

She did. Although Dean explained his initial breakup with Kaylin and all his former breakups as well as a form of quote self sabotage, this behavior can also be viewed as a phoeb as a phobia to institutionalized commitment, that is marriage. Although Dean and Calin are still together, it is highly unlikely that they will ever see their wedding day. If I'm not by the way, I'm a romantic and I hope I'm not right. I love you guys. Can we just hold whether you agree or disagree with that? Wow?

That was well, holy crap, And listen, like I said, you're not the first. You won't be the last to call me a commitment because a lot of that stuff is pretty spot on. I gotta say, well, let's let's answer the elephant in the room right now. You said that Dean and Calin would never see their wedding day. Have you seen his left hand? Oh my god, is there a reveal today? And I said, unlikely, but I hope that I'm proven wrong, am I? Yeah? Is she

this this man? You're right? You are a commitment folkus and and by the way people evolve, so the way somebody is like at twenty five, I'm not sure like how old you were when you started the Bachelor's changes. I mean, it's very different from the way somebody is at twenty eight or twenty nine. I will say that, Uh, the my my progression as an individual throughout Bachelorette and my most recent Bachelor in Paradise, from what I've seen,

at least in myself has changed a lot. I think that just to at least maybe like qualify everything a little bit. On Bachelorette, Bachelor in Paradise the first time, and then Bachelor Winter Games, I was still and I still am obviously figuring out a lot about myself, learning

a lot, uh. And I think the best way to summarize it is I was constantly looking for looking to be stimulated in my relationship, as like the uh, the you know, king stimulant for my life, but in reality, I was never really doing the things that made me happy. I was kind of leaning on that to make me happy, and then when that got boring, I'd be like, I'm out because I'm bored of this, so I'm gonna be

on the next thing that stimulates me. Um. Since those shows, since Bachelor Winter Games and the whole Leslie relationship, I've found things to stimulate me on a regular basis that I'm interested in and continue to pursue. So it's not I'm not relying on Kalin to keep me interested. I'm keeping myself interested. And then the relationship comes on and obviously we're able to build and grow with each other seeing something that I love about you, and that's great.

And I've noticed this on the show, and it's exactly the what you're expressing now is you're always looking for self insight, like you really really show that. Unfortunately so many people don't. But I noticed that about you all all along. So and this is this is harsh, because harsh is just fun, absolutely, especially when you're being critical of other people like well, in this instance, right, like, you can't take a middle stance on something because then

it's no stance at all. If you take it. You have to excuse one way or the other. You know what I mean exactly. But Jared was saying something at the top of it too, that he has some You have some similarities within yourself of the commitment, Philip, you're saying soft boy. Um, yeah, I forget like not being ready for a relationship, especially when you were younger, acting like you were in thinking you were well, I think

the like Dean, Yes, Dean had commitment. Well, here's the thing from my from ten thousand feet away, because you still refuse to tell anybody whether you're married or not.

I think that probably some of those things in that paragraph are true about Dean, and Dean knows that, which is why Deans so such an incredible human being, because he's aware of his flaws and tries to work on them, which is why I, I and a lot of people, um respecting, because he puts it out there, like anybody dating Dean doesn't know this, right, like I I think has you know knows that like, yeah, I have issues.

But comparably, I think there's a lot of people out there who start dating guys who don't showcase their flaws like Dean does, and then all of a sudden, their partners find out, Oh wow, you have a lot of flaws that I had no idea. Uh, we're boiling underneath. And yeah, I don't even necessarily think they're flaws, just challenges. Yeah, being afraid of commitment is a challenge, and it's a

challenge for oneself. It's also a challenge for whoever you're dating, if they want to, you know, want a committed relationship. Can I ask you two questions before you ask the questions? I just want to As an aside, The funny thing you call it a challenge is Caitlin and I never say that we are annoying each other. Instead of saying annoying, we say that we're challenging each other. So it's funny to hear that. That's he that's that's really funny. That's good,

that's great. My question is do you think you are commitment folk? Yes, I would still say that. I haven't shaken the title of commitment philip entirely. Um. I just meant like for you, not the not the tag, like who cares what other people think about you? Do you think? Yeah?

I think? Well, so I've talked about in the podcast before because I did therapy quite a bit uh last year, maybe the year before, And even my therapist said that I have an addiction to novelty, and I think someone that's addicted to novelty and trying new things inherently is kind of commitment phobic because they're always kind of looking for the next thing thrill um, and so I there's definitely a large part of me that is that way. Then my second question is realizing that, is that why

you have a wedding band on your hand? Do you think like for whether you're actually because this this human being he just won't tell anybody whether he's married or not. Maybe it's aspirational, Maybe that's he wants to get to that point. And that's exactly my point. And I think that he knows that he has this fear of commitment, and so he loves Calin so much and cares about her so deeply that he is actively every day fighting

that off until it just becomes second nature. And that includes the wedding band to be like, hey, I want to make sure that you know, I know that I'm in this. I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to fight for it and and and I'm gonna try to fight off any phobia I have about being in a committed relationship with you, Calin. He's also trying to fight up all the women that are hitting on him out there. I don't think remember what I said about the big

blue eyes. I think Dean only becomes more attractive with a wedding band, which I don't even know about how that's possible, but I think it might be ladies. He really is cute. I'm married, and like, hey, we look, Yeah, he's cute. You both are. It's all right, I I know, like I'm I'm confident myself, but Dean Dean is like, you know, a unicorn. You know. I will say one of the one of the many faults that I have is is being a contrarian and so define people's expectations.

It's just it gives me must it gives you a rush, It gives it gives you a rush. Yeah, and that's not something you ever want to lose. It just depends how you channel it. If you're channeling it and it's not hurting anybody, and it really actually it can actually be really positive. So I think that's something that you want to cultivate possibly and and just depending on what the channels are so how long have you been married? Too long? No? Long A long time I've been married.

Oh my gosh, I think it's thirty years. Thank you. So how do you make it last? Um? You you work at it like your little you kill him? No, I like that, now you really you really have to. There's there's going to be speedbuts so in nine percent of relationships, and it's about dedication and commitment and working

things through. I've always been curious with people with doctors and psychologists and um, all the sort, do you find yourself kind of working around the clock, like psychoanalyzing your husband for instance, or your children or anything like that. You know what? Okay, great question. I'm asked that all the time because I'm behavior cognitive. I actually really don't psychoanalyze. I look at goals and yeah, what does somebody go

what are their goals and behaviors? And what do people want out of therapy, Whether it's like somebody can come in and they want to find a great relationship, they can come in and they want to alleviate anxiety or depression. So with I mean within that, yeah, you get into all sorts of things regarding people's lives. But Ultimately, I

never really quote unquote analyze people. It's more about looking at life, looking at people and seeing, Okay, how does that fit with what some what is going to make somebody happy? Um that Now, of course that's different than diagnosing so and it's it's like again, this is fun, it's entertainment. I really would never quote unquote diagnose somebody without meeting them. But there are characteristics that you can

look in and say, Okay, that's what's going on. So, um, yeah, I don't my kids I've analyzed now, just just kidding. Emotional manipulation is a really interesting one because you see that in a lot of relationships unfortunately, and that's about when somebody when somebody has an agenda or they're trying to control somebody else's behavior in perception. So I am

really good at calling people out on that. I'm not calling my husband an emotional manipulator, sorry John, But but if you just try to pull something, I think that's where being a psychologist and understanding that really does I'm in handy what exactly is? Oh? I was gonna ask, do you think we've seen any of that emotional manipulation

on Peter Season? In the bachelor. Oh gosh, yes, hello, Victoria, can you give us an example, because I'm trying to figure out what exactly emotional manipulation is, I can tell you exactly. So Victoria, F and sorry, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. But remember when he was starting to say this bothers this, but you know this bothers me. Um, I heard that you may have broken up marriages. And she was like basically, F like f this and walked

and walked away. This is bullshit. That's emotional manipulation because it's basically you're not allowing somebody else to voice their feelings. You're being really she was being really dismissive. Or when she said when he was feeling badly about something else and she said, you're always in a mood. So that's emotional manipulation as well, because you're you're trying to get somebody else to feel a certain way about the themselves, but you're really avoiding the issue. Yeah, you put the

blame on them exactly. That who hasn't been well, a lot of people haven't been bullied, but for anybody who's been bullied and then they try to speak up for themselves and the person says, Oh, you're just so sensitive or can't you take a joke? That's a that's a clear example of emotional manipulation. I have a friend that does that all the time. So now you can call him on it. I don't think I could. We gotta, we gotta move on. But before we do, I just

have one request. So this this paragraph of my commitment folk that she wrote you wrote one for a lot of other men from Bachelor in Paradise. Don't don't read the whole thing, but can you just give us the name and the title that you assigned for them real quick before we do move one to the next segment. Okay, so here's here's a few so speaking of emotional manipulation. Luke Parker, serial philander, Jed White, Wait serial what? Serial cheater?

Player Blake courts Men, soft boy Clay Harbor, narcissist Juan Pablo. That's a throwback. That's a throwback. Oh he's a he's he defines narciss I've only heard bad things, but I never met him personally. So what did you give Blake? Blake? Was Blake was a player? Because he was he was hooking up with all these women and didn't write like it was. It seemed to be just about the hook

up with him. We'll take it, Yeah, I think. I yeah, poor Blake, he's just like that guy that was not I feel like that just was so overwhelmed at the moment and so many women just wanted him and there's no there's no, there's no Poor Blake. Anyways, Dr Nancy thank you for being a guest on our podcast. If you're looking to hear more from Dr Nancy b sure check out her book, Don't Sleep with Him Yet. A Badass Guy to Dating Intent, Empowering Steps. It's on Amazon

and if you're in the l A area. It's also available at Barnes and Noble, at the Grove Fantastic, awesome, anywhere else. We can find your Instagram, Twitter anything. Thanks for asking. My Instagram handle is d r n A n c y l E. So Dr Nancy Lee. And then the Facebook page for the book is Don't Sleep with Him Yet Forward slash the book perfect. Great. I think I think you could definitely help a lot of people.

I hope, so we appreciate. Fine, take care, Okay, you're helping people to thanks alright, all right, and we are back with more help. I suck at dating. For your ear lobes, your drums, your canals. You're welcome anyways, U, Dr Nancy Lee. Be sure to check her book out. Obviously. She seems pretty insightful and she's not afraid to pack a punch, as you heard when she wrote that little thing about me. Real nice. Dr Nancy. We're gonna answer a couple of emails. We're going to answer a couple

of emails. She wrote that she had no idea she would ever be sitting face to face with you re reading out loud what she wrote, she secretly knew it. I feel like anyways, we're gonna answer a couple more emails for you guys before we get out of here. Um. As always, this is i our a favorite part of the podcast because it helps us connect with you a little bit uh more. Okay, over there, you have a

I was a little scary stop speaking. Um. There was something really important that I wanted to add to the end of that, and I couldn't think of it for the life. Well, I want to add something while you're thinking of We love your emails. Please keep sending to them. Oh, I was gonna include the email address podcast sounds cute. You guys are just like reading each other's minds. It's what is it dating? And I heart media dot com. I suck a dating and I heart media dot com.

Please keep sending emails. Please follow us on Instagram. We are at help, I suck at dating. We're gonna be doing giveaways. Dean right now is currently wearing a hashtag suck army Beanie. I have one too, but I gave it somebody to wear. It's a long story, but we have suck army beanies that we're gonna do giveaways on on Instagram, and we're going to announce how best to win it. To win it, We're still concocting ideas. Tune into the podcast, will come up with them maybe next week.

But Instagram is the important thing to follow because that's where you're gonna win the beanies. So follow us on help by second dating. Uh and then oh what I wanted to say? Please please please go on um Apple podcast wherever you get it. Rate our podcast please and give us a review because that really helps. Obviously, please give us a five star review, um, but really, anything other than a five star review please if you're gonna stars to know if you're gonna go all that way

out of your way, give us five stars. I feel like four is pretty fair. We have five star podcast. We'll take three stars. No, but seriously, please just go on Apple podcast. Rate review is give us a comment. Let us know what we're doing good. Remember when we used to do the thing where it was doing I remember used to say, leave a five star review and roast us in the comments. Yeah, it was pretty fun to You can do that if you feel like doing that,

you're feeling creative, give us a five star review. Tell us what you hate most about us. We really hate us, so a lot of us. Just give us a five star. Really care about um. We're gonna answer a couple of emails for you. We've got a couple of interesting ones here for you. This first one is from Jamie and she's sending this for her friend. I'm twenty four. I've been dating a thirty four year old man for about a year, and things went incredibly well at the beginning.

I've had a very bad string of luck when it comes to relationships. Prior to this relationship, I moved across the country for a guy I was insanely in love with to then find out he was in multiple relationships. That's what she says. I was damaged, but I moved. However, anytime my boyfriend drinks or is just feeling frisky, he spews past baggage and hurt. Oh, he spews past baggage and hurt onto this relationship. I do not know if I can come back from the hateful words and unnecessary

fights that have nothing to do with me. For example, my car got declined at a brewery and he said, you embarrassed me. Don't be like you're deadbeat dad. The words are insanely hurtful, and nine percent of the time he is so incredibly loving. Ps I work with him. P s s. He was married right before this relationship started. What happened in the first relationship again, the dude had a different family. She moved cross country for the guy, and that guy was in other relationships. Okay, what was

her name or was it anonymous? Um? This is Jamie wrote this for her friends, so she's writing from the perspective of her friend. It sounds like and the friends says that the guy is romantic. Nine of the time he's a nice guy. Yea the time he's a nice guy is a big amount. And if the ten percent is saying don't embarrass me, don't be like you're dead beat dad, I don't know. I think she's got to get out of that. I think that ten percent is going to soon be fifteen. Then it's going to be

and that's just gonna keep growing and growing. But how do you, as a friend then tell your friend, hey, look, this relationship is destructive for you. I think you need to figure out a way to get out of it. Send her this podcast. Yeah, just you should listen to this episode. Just take what Dane just said. No, it's true though. Actually a friend of mine went through a very similar situation where one of my friends was on this on and off again relationship with just one guy

for like eight years. It was that, you know, they would they would date other people, but that they always still be hooking up and coming back into their lives. But he never wanted to be her boyfriend and so they never committed, but she would always still hang out with him until one day one of my friends told her, like they were drinking and she was venting about him, and then my friend was like, I'm tired of you talking about this guy. Like, I can't hear it anymore.

She's like, what are you talking about. It's like, you need to never talk to him again. He sucks. You need to not talk to him again. And so she flipped out on her and she's like, you're not being a good friend. And they lost a friendship for like a year over this. Of course, guess what happened that the guy. You know. She finally stood up to the guy and was like, either you're with me or not, and he's like, well, well, I don't want to be

in a relationship with you. So they finally broke things off, and then the friendship came back to be. So the friend, you know, my friend, who was very honest with my other friend, was completely in the right, but unfortunately she lost her as a friend for a little while because she took it poorly. And it might be similar to situation. But at the end of the day, just know you're doing the right thing if you say, hey, listen, this

guy might not be the best thing for you. I mean, I've been in a situation to where I'm giving friends advice and their relationship isn't going well, and you never like to give the advice of being like, well, maybe you should just end the relationship. That's never what your friend is like looking for, you know what I mean. But sometimes that's the best advice similar to that situation. And it's just it's tricky because you don't want to lose your friendship, but you also want to give them

the most appropriate advice you can. I think a lot of times it's just like lending a listening ear in those cases. So I'll like just hear them out, listen to them, and agree with the things that they're saying, just because I feel like that's a big part of it. But this is like if it's a destructive relationship, Like if he's saying these really hurtful things to you, it's

like that's something that you should probably exit yourself from. Yeah, girl to girl, for her, I would just say no that you're not like, he's not going to change just for you. He's gonna change, but he's gonna change in a bad way. It's only gonna get worse. Well, yeah, but you're not gonna be able to save him, is

what I was trying to say. You know how, like girls we think we can send THEMS fix things versus a and guys think I think you want to be the financial supporter or whatever it may be, etcetera, etcetera for a man to a woman. I feel like women always want to be like, I want to make you the man that I see you are, but like he has to want that himself, and it doesn't sound like he wants that. So okay, Well, so how do you recommend Amy or I'm sorry Jamie to go to her

friend and approach the situation as a girl? Um gently, you know, approach it with caution. But I would, you know, maybe invite her over for a girl night, you know, have wine, watch Bachelor or Love is Blind. Uh, and uh, you know, maybe just ask her how the relationship is going, and you know, subtly give your honest opinion about it. I wouldn't go up to her and be like, your boyfriend sucks, you need to dump his ass right now.

I don't think that's the correct approach. I think, and this might be a little controversial, but documenting times that you have seen red flags so that she can recall it and just saying here's where I love you. I'm going to be here with you no matter what, Like I'm not leaving, but here's where are my red flags? And then recalling those situations to her because I think that we tend to forget the bad things and remember

the good. Absolutely good point. I think that's a good point too, is writing down those times too, so you can have like a log of the things that were inappropriate, or you can reflect on them and remember them more clearly. It's a little more challenging, I think for her, but I guess as the friend, it seems like she's been there and experienced some of these firsthand too, So yeah,

I think that's a good place to start. I don't have a gentle conversation with her, and I think just saying that you're not you're not leaving her, you know, like you're going to stick by her. I think we can all agree that that her friends should be out of that relationship. Though it sounds like it, I mean, yeah, yesterday, we don't know, but anybody he says that your dad is I mean unless the dad I don't know, don't be like you're dead beat dad is what she said?

Can I can I ask you a personal question? YEA, if someone said, what if Klin said something negative about your father, um, something not like dead beet, but something that was i'd be I'd get defensive. Okay, Okay, I just didn't know because I didn't know what her relationship with her dad is. And if he was just being like, maybe she hates her father, I don't. I'm probably overthinking this way too much. But no, yeah, I don't know. It's it's definitely a sensitive thing to totally Yeah. I know,

you're absolutely right. Email. Long story short, Jamie gets your friend of that relationship. We're gonna move on to one more. We have this one from m. M says I work at a college and I'm twenty six. That's uh. There's a student that I worked with who I've had a big crush on for about three years now. He's twenty two. He's so kind, and sometimes I can't tell if he's just a nice person to everyone or if he's supporting

with me. For example, we were texting and something about something work related recently, and he sent me a text telling me that it was so sweet of me to be writing a letter of support for an award for someone we both know. Our conversations are mostly professional. He's graduating this year and I'm possibly leaving my position at the college to take another position. Else I'm looking for some advice on if I should tell him how I feel.

I do not crush easily, and I haven't been in a relationship for about three years, so it's supervisor versus like student. Yeah, what does she do at the college? She just says she works at the college. She doesn't say what specific. She's probably a professor, maybe like a professor's aide or something like t A or something, you know, something about the upper to a student that's it says right it does say right here to make me believe

that's graduating. She says, there's a student that I worked with who I've had a big crush on for about three years now, so that means she's, yeah, in a superior position of the student worked with. Can I just say, because I know that we talked about this in the beginning about coronavirus just got notified. Coachella and Stagecoach music festivals have been postponed until October due to coronavirus. Already breaking news here on help I suck a dating festival

life broke, Come on festival breaking news. That's a good point. Coachella has been pushed, so if you're planning on going to Coachella with a significant other, maybe meeting your girlfriend. Bachelor in Paradise is going to be so different this year. Jared and I went to a stagecoach once. This is when Aashley and I were still I imagine if that was pushed back to October, you guys might have never gotten married or still would have. I'm sure you would

have too, But just imagine if you didn't. Blake's a better example. He would have probably had a lot better run in Paradise. You would have been far better off. Okay, let's go back to the email. I just how to break that new So she essentially is a teacher and she has a crush on a student, the students graduating, and she's being it sounds like, just stay away from it. Well, just wait till he's graduated. Once he even if you stay working at the college and he's graduated, sure, then

that's fine. But he needs to be graduated out of the school. And I would even give it like a little like I think college is different than like maybe I don't know. I don't know either. I guess it's it's definitely a tricky. It is tricky because then graduating.

If you're a professor, they'll think about it. But think about what happens if they start there in a public relationship and then all of a sudden the dean in the school like or you can say you met at a bar ten years later, I mean ten seconds later exactly. That's my point. They were a student in that the last semester, and then you graduated in a week later. Their dating. But so many bosses like falling in with

their secretaries. Of this could be a really bad comparison, but it's like you find love where you find lot. I agree with you, but I do think that there's something about a student teacher relationship that is it's just touchy. It's touch to say I'm right in this situation, what should she do? Let's ask that. Let's ask this story, because you don't crush easily either, And that thing that's a big important thing to think about in this situation is this person doesn't crush easily, and so she has

a crush on a student. What would you do if you were in her position? As Let's let's say, let's say we brought on an assistant producer, like an assistant assistant like a low under Yeah, this is good under her. Yeah, and you develop feelings over the course of the next couple of years. What would be your course of action. It's hard because he's not graduating, but like if he switched jobs, then yeah, that's all I feel like what it is? I still feel like the workplace is different

than can't you just report it to HR? Can you go to HR like school somewhere and be like, hey, this is happening, but nothing has happened like led up to it just now. I don't know if I've ever heard of like somebody going to HR being like I really like this person, but we work together. How does that work? You know, you have to report your relationships, but we're talking about a university here. I know, Well, I'm trying to understand if there is that at a university.

I just think I think you should go for it. I think, what what does she say? Does she like slide into a d N. I think the reason that what if what if? Yeah? What if the student feels uncomfortable and then reports the professor? No. I think the reason that we always to think that there's this taboo against student teacher relationships is because it's always like you for you think high under age. Yeah, yeah, they're twenty two and twenty six. They're both adults. One is graduating.

I don't personally think that there's any conflict of interest, yes, okay,

and the students twenty two. But you're right, Okay, So now that we've established for a fact that it's appropriate for her to pursue a relationship with a guy, I just think I'm not saying you shouldn't just proceed with question because then again, like I said, what if the student's not feeling it, and then she didn't think creepy like I saw down your shirt while you're doing It's like there's nothing, there's nothing there to like make it creepy.

I'm trying to think, don't lose your job, or maybe love is worth that much. Man with the twenty two year old, I'm pretty sure that I've been on a date with a teacher, not like a teacher professor, but like an aid at some point, and it wasn't awkward for me. Of course, you have right, but you didn't. You didn't forego that into a place where you had to be like, okay, I was a student or I am a student. I don't know. What the level was

for huh, bachelor word of the week. I'm just saying, from a perspective of the twenty two year old that's potentially graduating soon, it's not weird if you approach him casually, get a drink. Maybe let's get a coffee because it's your on a university environment, people drink coffe all the time there, Yeah, why not just like, hey, now you're graduated, let's go grab a cup of coffee. Yeah, that should

just be it. All right, see if it's there, because if it's worth if it's worth it later, like if you go ahead and have Yeah, obviously this time she could be That's what I mean. Obviously it's worth it if they end up like getting married. So, m if you're listening to this, what's your advice? No, I'm looking. I'm gonna ask you a question. What's your advice? I

saild go for balls to the wall. If you don't crush easily, you gotta you gotta take advantage of every chance you can beat two out of three here anyway, proceed with caution. That's my only advice. Hold on, So, what were you saying about your relationship with the teacher aide? It's pretty good. I wasn't saying anything. I'm just saying, no, no, no no, we gotta know a little bit. I'm just saying, at one point in my life, I probably have been on a date with the teacher's aid allegedly in college.

Probably yeah, yeah, of course it wasn't in high school. Well what what great? I don't know exactly what great? Come on, give us a it's got to be later on, because and you're kind of like over the sorority or whatever girls that you you there a young teacher age, so he's freshman dean, and you don't think that it's plausible that they could have met up. I'm not saying that I was ever on a date with anyone. I just I think that I recall something of the sort

happening at some point. It's not it's not ambiguity for ambiguity sick. I'm being genuinely correctly. It's like, yeah, you do remember if it was like a date or was it more of just a casual meet up. I'm really bad at misconstruing what people think are dates for just like friendly hand do you remember what you did for the friendly hang? Did you get the first dinner there was no there was no was there any up, There was no first round, second, never even hit the ball.

But we definitely not. I've gotten drinks with them. Did you see a couple of pitches? No, I'm literally saying shut out of my ask, Like I don't even know what that means. I took a couple I took a whole ball to found a couple off. Yeah, you had a full count. There are a couple of did you get tagged? You get tagged out? Center? Didn't swing on him because I wasn't swinging the us The purpose of the yeah, did you get sent home? Third base coach

sending you anyways? That's gonna do it. For this week's episode of Help I Suck at Dating, Um, be sure to keep your eye on our Instagram. Jared and I are going to be conducting a suck Army beanie giveaway. You're not gonna want to miss it. We don't know exactly what we're gonna do, but we will be sure to outline the details. We're gonna do something. We're gonna do something that's the most important thing. We don't know. That's like that should be the name of this podcast.

We don't know what we're doing. But we're doing something and that's the important thing, and we want you to at least pretend to care. Yeah, five star rating. I don't care if you hate us, love us, are indifferent. Just give us five stars. Yes please? Um, thank you guys for listening. Bachelor Valley finale is tonight. So so Peter's season is officially over probably by the time it's over,

and then Claire's seasons right around the corner. Did you hear that apparently they're not going to film outside the States because the coronavirus. Really, Oh, we did, breaking news. It was so funny when you saw that because you were for like, it almost looked like it took ten seconds for it to click in your brain because you're like, oh yeah, oh, breaking new. I think that was just him being like, how do I mimic or mock Tory? No,

I would never mockulate. That's interesting about clear season all being in the US though, Yeah, I heard that. I don't know if it's confirmed or not. I mean, we all know the success of Peter season when they're like, we're going to Cleveland, Ohio. Chris Souls is only I could think of. They were like in Iowa and Illinois, and I think it's gonna be fine. There are many parts within the continental United States that are quite gorgeous,

so they'll be fine. True. All right, Well, we're gonna um be ears to the ground for that, just to see what happens next, as we always are. Chili. Yeah, that sounds good. Um, we're gonna go eat some chili. We're going to next week, we're gonna have a great episode with contestant from Love Is Blind. You've probably seen that show. If you haven't, go check it out on Netflix. It's pretty captivating. We're gonna have one of the cast members from that show join us here in the studio

for help. I sucre dating. Be sure to tune and then, because maybe we'll suck just a little bit less. Follow help by suck at rating on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to podcast HM