First Comes Love, Then Comes Marriage

a great episode coming in for you, guys. We have a very peculiar couple that started a podcast, a couple that used to be married got divorced, staying friends and coaching people through the divorce that might be going through it as well. Um, but before we do all that stuff, Jared, how are you. I'm doing well? Man? You know, just uh, day by day man, where each day gets a little bit worse than the day before. Uh, it's it's it's

good though. We're you know, we're healthy. Everybody's doing well. Uh. Other than that, you know, just grinding through just like everybody else is. How are you. I'm good. I'm good. Poison Oak setting in really nicely. The van is basically taking apart right now. I'm redoing everything inside of it. So just trying to make the most of this time that we have that we're probably never going to get back,

you know. I Like there are times where I like go through a couple of days and I look back on the past like three or four days and I'm like, wow, I didn't do anything, was past nine hours. So I'm trying to be like a little bit more productive with my time. Same. It's hard though, because I have no motivation to do anything. When when there's nothing to be done, I lose motivation, which is I feel like almost or beat.

It's very different than Ashley. When Ashley has a lot of things to do, she gets tired very quickly, and when she has nothing to do, that's when she gets motivated. Where I'm the complete opposite. There's nothing to be done. I'm I have a tough time moving around, man, like I drag ass anyway. Um so yeah, we do have a couple of guests that are coming up, Stephanie and Eric Spett. They are the host of a brand new podcast called Divorce Done Well. They're divorced couple that started

a podcast about their divorce. So it's pretty interesting stuff. So I figured we talked about in the first segment, seeing how we're gonna talk about divorce in the second segment. We talked about marriage in the first segment. Uh, because I'm fascinated by the idea of being married. I kind of wish I could get Ashley in here to talk about it, because we've talked about on the podcast before. How like, I'm not the biggest believer in soulmates, Dean,

I think you're similar in that one. We're like, you don't believe in like this one person that's your predestined to be with um and I ah, And I was actually reading an article on Psychology Today dot com that's it's this woman Shana Springer, was a PhD and something. Apparently she goes, soulmates do exist, just not in the

way we usually think. And her argument is kind of similar to mine, where soulmates are are She doesn't think that like there's somebody that you find, you know, you're perfectly matched soulmate, but she does believe that so like your quote unquote, soul mate does exist by like growing so much admiration for someone's and like the analogy she makes is she says, like, if humans can develop finally honed skills and like music, athletics, language, wouldn't it be

equally possible for them to become perfectly suited and completely

irreplaceable to their spouses. And I kind of agree with that because at least in my own experience with Ashley, like from the get go, I wouldn't have thought Ashley is my soul mate, but growing so moose to her over the past five years and starting off as friends and then boyfriend, girlfriend and fiance and now being married to her, like I could never imagine my life without her, and she's kind of grown to be my soul mate because she's irreplaceable to me, and I don't know that

kind of it's very different than the love that we've been taught in our life about how a soulmate is someone that you meet who gives you feelings that you've never felt before, and it's these sparks that are just it's fireworks right off the bat, and this glorious aspect of love and and for me, I went through a very different process with my now wife, and that doesn't mean that she's not my soul mate though, I just think I have a different interpretation of a soul mate

and I was kind of getting I'd love to know your, uh perspective on this team. Uh. Well, that's interesting that you say that, because I do agree with you that Uh well, I guess not agree with but I find it surprising that you're saying that because I always thought that you were kind of like the big romantic in the relationship with you and actually or did Ashley, Let's say we asked actually the same question, would she say that you were her soulmate when you guys first met

and she knew it right away? Because I mean, obviously, if you watch her and and know her story, which we do, she was obviously really really into you at first. So do you think that she would call you her soul mate from from even back then? I think so. And actually perfect timing, Uh, we have uh somebody coming into the glam room right now to get her perspective on this. Ashley might be or my love, would you consider me to be your soul mate right off the bat?

Did you know from the moment you met me? Um? Well, it was love at first sight, so it was definitely like I was struck by something that I had never felt before, which I know you didn't feel. And I just heard you recording. Well, yes, so you heard what I said where I said that you've grown into my soulmate because I appreciate that, and I like it just as much. You like it just as much? Yeah, I think so too. Yeah, yeah, I have no problem them with that. I like it, Okay, great, Yeah, but like

for me, like I don't know of it. I don't know that I would call it like I realized you were my soul mate at first sight. I realized I felt like I was in love with you at first sight. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. I wonder I guess what soul mate would be even a step up? So you could if I was Jared, I would argue that you didn't. You could have liked him even more than you did. You know, I could have liked Jared

even more than I did. Yeah, and we all know how how good Googaga you are over and at first, but you could have even been more like if he was your soul mate and you knew it from the get go, you would do if any knows that there's so many at the get go. I think you need a conversation to prove it. It's different than love at first sight, because love at first sight is like when you're struck by, like you're just struck by somebody, but

then with a soul mate. I think you at least need to have a couple of days of conversation too to judge the compative ability. So are you saying that you can be in love with someone at first sight that's not your soul much? Yeah? I guess that makes sense. Actually, you're so wise. Why do you not come on this

podcast more? I would love to. Yeah, we seriously to hear Jared and ize Jared and my different perspectives on our own relationship, Which isn't that is that kind of counterintuitive everything we've learned growing up about love at first sight. I mean, I I feel like every movie, every TV show, every book, everything I've ever been told is is that, like, love at first sight equates to your soul make no, like does not. I've never thought that. I've never thought

that from movies or whatnot. I do agree with you that we're like conditioned to think that true love is this thing that you see someone and you know, you should know right away that you're gonna spend the rest of your life with them, and you should fight tooth and nail and never give up to fight for this one person that you don't even really know, but you're just convinced in your core that it's like the right

person for you. But then in reality then you like try and like to mimic those and echo those, but it doesn't happen that way. And then I think that kind of maybe like leads to people getting depressed and like, well, I saw all these things happen in the movie when I was a kid, and now it's not working out for me that way, So why that, like what's wrong

with me? Um? And I think that is what maybe leads to it's funny that we're going to have this this couple that's divorced, because I think that's what leads to divorces. People get so enamored and they like they see this like fairy tale type stuff, and then it turns out not to be that way, and so that's why, uh,

you know, splits happen. I agree. I think people confuse lust with love and so and then people just act too quickly, and I mean, it's it is kind of weird though when you think about it, because the media age I look this up for getting married in the United States is at its highest point. It's thirty years old for men and twenty eight years old for women. This was back in two thousands and eighteen, according to

US Census. But the divorce rate is also the highest it's ever been, where it says in two thousand fifteen, for every one thousand married adults age fifty and older, ten had divorced, which is up five and nine. So pretty much they're saying the divorce rate has roughly tripled since n so people are getting married older in life, which in my head would say that leads to a happier marriage because you get to learn more about yourself in your twenties and then get married in your thirties.

But at the same time, divorce rates have also tripled, so I guess it really just wait, can we go back to that divorce that Can you say that that one more time? Pretty much the divorce rate has tripled since none of the actual numbers per per one thousand people, all right, it says that the US marriage rate has declined, so actually less people in the United States are getting married.

Divorce rates have actually increased among older adults, and it says in two thousand fifteen, for every one thousand married adults aged fifty and older, ten had divorced, which is up from five and nights. So pretty much every thousand people they get married, ten divorced. Though that number is definitely not true. You're telling me one percent of marriages and in divorce that is. But this also see this is a skewed stat because this also says ages fifty

and abuff. So if you're already married, if you've been married for like however many years, fifteen years, by the time you're fifty, you're probably not getting a divorce, even though ironically, the two people we have on a podcast today we're married for sixteen years and got a divorce, So who the hell knows, um, But the point is, what I'm saying is that divorce rate is going up.

But also the median age of people getting married is later in life, which would have initially I would have thought that if you're getting married later in life, there would have been less likelihood of you getting divorced. But the divorce rate keeps going up, so I don't know.

I think maybe in addition to that, people are staying young longer, which I think probably has a been impact on it, like with technology and social media and stuff, like, you know, a thirty year old in I could be wrong on this, but a thirty year old twenty is a lot younger than a thirty year old in nineteen, you know what I mean. But you're right. I do think that as the as as the meeting excuse older,

you would think that the divorceery would go down. But I think there's just a lot of other variables that come into play, like technology and stuff like that. Like, I don't know, it's gonna be interesting because, Uh, one of the reasons that I'm like, it's not super pro marriage is just because I've seen so many marriages like

through my friends parents and my parents fail so so horribly. Um. But but I think that a lot of like we it's it's kind of hard to even hold ourselves to the same standards that we do our parents, just because we're so generationally different, Like, uh, the way that we're brought up is so so different than how they were brought up thirty to forty years ago before we were even born. You know what I mean. So, um, I don't know. It's yeah, it's it's definitely an interesting thing

to talk about. Yeah, I mean, if you put like religious reasons aside, it is funny when you think about marriage, because it's like, hey, to prove our love, let's bring

in the government. It is. It is pretty funny. But but I'm excited to talk to both Stephanie and Eric about their new podcast, Divorce Done Well, uh, and talk about their marriage, their divorce when they knew it was over, because I think that's a difficult question to answer, Like, how do you know when you've been for sixteen years and then all of a sudden you're gonna call it quits. That's that's a hard thing to do. So I never answered your question. You I never, which I apologize for.

That's my bad. You asked me if I believe in soulmates? Right, Oh yeah, that was the original question. Yeah, I kind of just deflected the whole time. Um, I don't know if I believe in soulmates. Maybe I'm kind of in the same camp as you are with Ashley, where when I look at Kalin, I'm like, oh, like I can't imagine my life without Kalin, just like you can't imagine

yours without Ashley. I don't know, necessarily know if that makes us soulmates, but I know that I would prefer a life with her than I would without her, you know what I mean. So it's like, I don't know if that makes us soul mates. Maybe we are soulmates. I know that. Uh, I don't know. Actually, it's yeah, it's such an interesting thing to think about. Well, think

about it. I want to get it. I want you to talk more about it because I think it's an interesting topic of conversation, specifically for you because you're in a your relationship that's been a little over a year now, so it's getting into that category of all texts. Kalin right now and ask her if he thinks we're soul mates. What do you think she'll say. I don't know, but I'm very excited to hear the answer, and hopefully you

guys are too, So make sure you stick around. We have Eric and Stephanie Speck coming up next, and then Dean will tell us what Klin says about the question if Dean is her fil mate. But first let's take a little break, all right, Welcome back to help I suck at dating. We have a couple of special guests who are on the line right now. They are the hosts of the brand new podcast, Divorce Done Well. We

have the host rate here, Stephanie and Eric Spett. Stephanie and Eric, thank you so much for joining us today. How are you guys doing? Thanks for having Yeah, thank you. Um, So, you guys have this brand new podcast, Divorce Done Well. So I would love a little bit of history of why you decided to jump into the podcasting world because for a little context, which I'd love for you guys to talk about, because this is what the podcast in our podcast is about two relationships. Is that you Eric

and Stephanie. You were married and now you are divorced and you have kids, and you went through what a lot of people go through. And so why did you decide to start a podcast? Um talking about that situation? Seven, I'll let you take okay. Yeah, So, yes, Divorce Done Well. You can follow us by the way, or you can listen to us on Apple podcast, Spotify, our websites Divorced Done Well dot net. Why did we just decide to do a podcast? Well, it was much to my um

bothering Eric about it. You know, when we were going through our divorce, it's not something that we ever I mean, I can tell you it's not something that we ever thought that we would have done, because getting a divorce is really hard. But after we got divorced, we have kids, and we both decided that our kids were going to be our north star and we were going to focus on that, and all the other stuff that sort of went into getting a divorce with time kind of went

by the wayside. And I said to Eric, we're gonna get really rich and we're going to get a podcast. Not really, but but no, I mean I said to my I think that we could offer a service honestly that um, I mean, how many divorced couples do you know out there that are doing a podcast together. They're single women, they're single men, but there's no couple that are able to tolerate enough each other enough to have a podcast. So it's all came from a good place.

We were trying to help people, and the funny part is that it's really kind of been therapy for us. I'm certain you cover this on your podcast, but for our listeners that want maybe a little bit more backstory, could you share how the divorce even came about, because I feel like, you know, obviously we know divorce is pretty rampant nowadays. Uh most mostly what we see is

ending on bad terms. But it sounds like you guys maybe just didn't end on bad terms or because I'm kind of curious how that relationship just dissolved and now you guys seem obviously perfectly okay with each other. You want me to take it correct? Yes, I think you should take that one. Yeah. So we were married for um, okay, seventeen years. We got separated. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We got separated like just before our sixteenth wedding anniversary. But with

the you know, divorce takes a while. UM. And we but we started dating when we were both in college. Um. I was a senior in college, she was a freshman, and then I went away. We were young, we were super young. And then I went away to law school. She stayed in college, and then we came back and we dated. You know, during that time we were we were on and off, we dated other people, and then we had a long UM. So we dated for a

long time. UM, and then we got to this this place in you know, and I think we were just different people then we were, you know, back when you know, she was eighteen and I was twenty years old, and um, so there wasn't really any anything dramatic at that point that that you know, the forced us to to go this direction. I think it was just it just it just wasn't working for either of us anymore, and so we decided that that was, um this is what made

the most sense. And you know, we've seen a lot of other people, we had some very good friends, you know, go through go through divorce. It was kind of at that stage of life where we saw a lot of people start breaking up and people were having a terrible time and they were doing terrible things to their kids. Not on purpose, but you know when when you're fighting and um uh, you're not being good to each other,

it affects the kids. And so we took a look at our situation and we said, you know, is this what we want do we want to screw up our kids like we're seeing our friends do. And we both decided that's that we wanted to do it differently, and so, um, we weren't going to be married anymore. But like our our son says, you know, we're still a family. It

just looks very different. Can I ask what you thought the other couples were doing that hurt the kids, because I hear a lot of times when couples are going through tough times, specifically married couples, you want to stay together for the kids. But you guys obviously decided against that. So can you kind of go into more detail about

why you guys think divorce was actually better for your family. Yeah, I'll say briefly my my thoughts on it, and I know Stephanie has thoughts too, you know, towards the latter parts of our marriage, we the marriage probably ended years before we signed the papers, and um, you know, when that starts happening, the kids can tell. Kids are very intuitive, and our daughter particularly, I think, really felt the um the tension in the house, and um, you know I was.

I was amazed how well adjusted she seemed to be when we, you know, when we told her we were getting divorced, and in the months and years since then, and I think it's because she recognized there was this tension had sort of dissipated, she still got you know, divorce is never great. You would love to have both parents in the house. And we don't advocate for divorce, but sometimes, you know, removing that tension isn't that positive

for the kids. And I think that was the case with us, and I think and that's you know, and I think what we've seen and I mean you see it even on there was just what was that that movie that we watched Eric, not together but separately, a marriage story, but it was basically was with um what's her name? Yes? Yes, yes, yes. And so if you any any like that movie, epitomizes like what it gets like because we said, oh, there wasn't one reason, but I mean we had hurt feelings. I heard Eric. He

hurt me. It's not like one day we were like, let's get divorced. It's great. There was a lot of anger and hurt, but we don't disparage. We don't disparage each other. If I'm mad at Eric, I don't tell my daughter do that have being a jerk? And this is what he did. It seems like a lot of parents resort to, like the high school ways and like talking bad about the other person. And it's easy to do. I mean, especially at the begin I mean when Eric and I were not in the best place. I mean,

I was abbrobated with him. Um, but I never said anything to him. I never said to my kids anything bad about him. Um And and they remember that. UM. So I would say that if there was one piece of advice, it would be don't talk bad about your ex to your kids because guests who's gonna lose you are You're not gonna want to be around you because you're just talking bad about your ex. So no matter no matter what you may think about your ex, that's

not how your kids look at them. And so if you're gonna if you disparage your kids to your ex, you may think that, oh well, I'm going to win points for that with them. They're gonna they're gonna now look at me, but better that's not gonna happen. It's going to be just the opposite. They're going to be like, why would you can I cuss on this podcast? Can I go for it? Why are you talking about my mom?

That's my mom? You know? And And that may feel good to you in the moment, but um, like Stephanie said, I think they remember that stuff later on, and um and I think it will come back to bite you. Yeah, I'm curious because when you guys sat down the kids to kind of explain what was going on as parents who are getting divorced, I would imagine too, Um, I would imagine most of those conversations will go but everything's gonna be fine, like we're still going to be friends.

But in most cases it probably isn't the case. But you, guys, I'm sure was there like a different way that you approached even having the discussion with your children? You know, that's the worst that that is the single worst part of getting a divorce is telling you if you have kids, telling your kids is the worst and not even often a sugarcoat it for anyone, but you get past it. But that's that's Eric and I were a mess, and

we didn't say I don't think we knew. I don't think we ever said we were we're going to be friends. He said, we love you, just has nothing to do with you. You know. Our son was older. He ran out of the house. He was devastated. I mean Eric and I both were crying. First, he was crying and I was crying, and they say, oh, you're not supposed to cry, and there's all these rules. But we didn't say we were going to be friends, but we modeled it, which we had not been modeling the best at least

I hadn't being the best parents. So really the only way to go was up. But I think we just kind of I don't know. I feel like we've navigated our divorced way better than our marriage. Um. And I think our kids see that we respect each other, and I don't think either of us, I mean, we didn't. We weren't happy, and when you're not happy, you're not nice to your partner, and that's really what happened. So yeah,

that doesn't go well telling your kids. But you know, you've got to be honest and you can't say, oh, we're going to be friends and all of that because you don't know right now that you guys are newly single. How do you guys navigate dating new people? Well, we're not totally newly with with both your partner and your children. Yes, how do we navigate that? Well, that's an interesting question. Very do you try lightly? Our kids are super sensitive

to that. We are both dating people at the time, and we've introduced them, and my son is more into it. My daughter can't be bothered. Um, So I mean I don't. It's not you don't want to see your parents as

somebody else. But I do know that just from personal experience and what I've seen from other friends, I really try to not sort of not that I dated all these people or that I have the greatest advice, but just not having some sort of revolving door of people being introduced to my kids, because I think that can be confusing. Yeah, go ahead, And I was just gonna say,

you don't. You don't force it on them, Like when when the time's right for them to sort of be introduced to that concept or to that person, you'll know it. Um um, you know that they still you know, they've got this um family of mom and dad and and um, you know they need time. I think the sort of get over get over that um, that idealized image. And once they do, I think then maybe they're willing to entertain that, you know, other people can be involved in uh,

in mom and dad's life. But but but I again, I think it's don't force it on them because I think it will backfire. They'll they'll they'll kind of let you know when they're ready. What kind of things did you guys do to try to work on the marriage. Did you go to a couple of therapy? Um? And then also my question is when when did you know that this wasn't something that could be saved? When did you know that you guys would have to get a divorce? And I guess my question is how could you know?

I guess my question is how do you know? I know? Isn't that That's a million dollar question. I think I struggled for a long time knowing and I think, look like Eric said at the beginning, you stay together longer because it's hard, I mean, finances, you've got kids. But um, we did go to therapy when with lots of therapists, anybody needs a recommendation, you can be m me because I got lots of names. We went to individual therapy, We went to a a couple of therapy. Um, I would

group therapy. Um. I stole Stephanie's therapist and I made it my therapist. That's correct, That's correct. Um. I mean we did. I feel like could we have done more? Maybe? Could I have looked at our marriage differently? You know, I definitely have a different perspective now. If I had looked at our marriage now, like you know, things could have been different. I spent some time sort of beating myself up because I think I'm more aware now than

I was when we were married. I was too concerned about being right and you know, maybe kissing Eric off. But we did try. I mean I think we tried the best that we knew how at the time. Um And and and when you know, you know, my therapist always said like you just know. And I feel like there was a moment for me where I just knew like it wasn't going to work for lots of different reasons. Um, but do you ever really know? I mean, it's scary as ship. I didn't work for a long time, and

I didn't have a career. I you know, Eric, it very well provided for our family. It's scarity, but you know you can. You just have to make a decision, um to move forward. And we we we weren't. So I think we did. We tried our best. Yeah. No, yeah, I think Stephanie's right. I don't think you ever really um, I think we I think Stephani is right. I think we tried really hard. When you have kids, I think

your incentive is to try. I mean, shame bind you if you don't try to make it work and make it work in a way that's um, you know, where you can provide a loving house for your kids. If you can't do that, then, like we talked about before, it doesn't make sense to stay married. And it's also easier. I think if you don't have kids, it's easier to just because you're just walking away from a relationship, you're

not walking away from a whole family. And I think we stayed together probably longer than we should have because we had kids. Um. You know, um, I don't think that's a bad thing, but um, I think that's sort of a natural thing that that you try to do. You you know, like I said, you do everything you can to try to save it for your kids, and at some point you realize it's a losing battle, right

and just know that we don't get here overnight. It's not like Eric and people are like, y'all, we've are gotten some feed bad Like that's not real, that's ridiculous. You guys can't get along. But like time, it's been four years since we've been apart, in three years divorced. I mean, time really helps everything. So people that reached out to us are generally pretty angry. At their spouse for X soon to be ex spouse because it's the beginning.

Has your perspective on love changed since your divorce? Good question. I don't know if I ever want to get married again. Don't, but I think I, uh, I like the fairy tale and and I believe that. I don't believe that there's one person though, for everybody. So I believe in love. I believe it's out there. You know, I'm with somebody now, I love him, but I don't know that there's one person for everybody. And I think, you know, I think that another mistake that I made just from growing up

is that you you build this fantasy. I met air when I was eight, team got married when I was twenty six. But there's all of these things that I in my head I thought things were supposed to be, and it's nothing like that. So I think I've more realistic view of love. I think that's the key. Yeah, yeah, and that a thing's end. I'm not going to fall apart because I've been through way worse and for me that you know what I mean, Like, you're in a

relationship and it's not working. If you're dating, the devastation doesn't seem to be as big as I don't know. For me, I'm a very emotional person and may be able to tell um and so things just hit really hit me pretty hard. But but I have noticed um that with getting divorce, you just am not as emotional about things like that. Well, you guys are both very vulnerable,

which is a breath of fresh air. Especially you're vulnerable in a very sensitive subject like your divorce, which a lot of people are unwilling to talk about and a lot of people go through. Uh. Yeah, it's it's it's great that you guys have a platform for people to go and listen to. We're going through similar situations. Uh. And it's funny because you guys got a divorce, I'm assuming because you felt like you needed separation and then you decided to do a podcast together. Well isn't that funny?

I know? Yeah, that was the promise of getting wealthy, which I mean Stephanie to be clear, she did promise me that and it hasn't happened yet. So I'm gonna I'm gonna hang on to this thing until that happens. You might want to play the lottery also, just to kind of head your bed. Oh, obviously, So of course everybody can go check out Divorce Done Well. Can you guys tease us because I see that you have an episode help on Apple podcast right now, but give us

a teaser what people can expect? Okay, So Divorced dounwell dot net. You can get to our podcast from our website. You can also go to Apple Podcasts with Spotify. So um, basically you'll just kind of get a day in the light. We have different topics, we have experts. We talk about how we handle Halloween, we handle how we handle birthdays. I mean, maybe it seemed pretty mundane, but it's you know, should we all take a trip together or should we

not take a trip together? And is that weird? And how will your boyfriend our girl friends feel about that? So it's basic stuff that divorce couples deal with day to day and we kind of just offer a platform for that. And it's hilarious. Yes, we're very funny, Yes, very good. Well again, Stephanie and Eric, thank you so much for joining us. We really thank you. Thanks for

having us. Thank you, have a good day. All. We are back with help I Suck at Dating, Hello Suck Army, Welcome back, Dean Texas Kitlin, are you my soul mate? So I'm suck sucks, sucks, suck. Uh, yeah, everybody sucks sucks sucks that day in I'll never forget the first time we did that. It was at Foxwoods when we're at the hell's name of that club. We had a club appearance and uh, anyway, it was in Connecticut, and we were just like, we weren't that drunk, but we

were feeling ourselves. Apparently we just started like chanting, suck, suck, suck, suck, suck suck everybody. Oh, it was a good time anyway. I think we were. I think we were sober. I think that's what the problem was. That's why we were like, let's get some energy up. We were very prideful in our podcasts still are still are. You know. Obviously People's Choice ties probably out the window. COVID just just terrible. But next year now people Choice Award one. We're coming

for you, baby. Help I second dating sunk Army is gonna get us there. Uh. But in the meantime, like I said, Dean, Texas Kalin, are you my soul mate? So we're very excited for Kalin's response. Hopefully she'll text back before the end of the podcast, but before then we wanted to get this. Your wonderful emails are wonderful listeners, suck army, So Mark with your wonderful voice, if you'd like to read us some emails, that'd be great. All right,

thank you boy. If this is from Hannah. For the past six months, I've had a crush on my best friend's brother. He's twenty nine and twenty seven, we're both single. Do I talk to the sister first or do I to shoot my shot with the brother? Jared? What do you think? Oh, you talked to the sister first. Your it's your best friend. You gotta be like, listen, I'm kind of crushing on your brother right now. Mike. Do you do you think it's a good idea? You think

it's bad idea? What are your thoughts? Like, they're your best friend. I would have hope that your best friend would want you to be happy, and that would include possibly dating their brother. Yeah, but what if she goes to her sister, her best friend best friend says show or go for it, and then she goes for it and she gets rejected. You know, don't you think maybe she should like feel out if there's any interest on

the brother's side. Otherwise it's like maybe she's like even asking in vain, She's gonna ruffle some feathers and then she's gonna get the green light or yellow light, proceed with caution, goes for it, gets rejected, and now there's tension everywhere in this friendship. Oh yeah, no, that's why I think she should talk to the sister, like I agree with you, dude, Just get no, I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Oh what are you saying? Then?

I'm saying maybe she should go straight to the brother to see if the if the feelings are reciprocated at all. Otherwise, why would you waste your time with telling your your your friend that you know what I mean? I was interesting. I would talk to the friend and about I would be like, listen, I like your brother, do you think

your brother likes me? And then the sister can like kind of try to feel it out without exactly saying it and just be like, hey, my friend Hannah, like she looks good tonight, right, or try to figure out like, hey, would you ever would you ever date Hannah? Would what are your thoughts about that? Because then she has it in like Hannah has it in, so like it off,

get some intel. I see what you're saying. But let's say that Hannah, Hannah's best friend doesn't like that Hannah has a crush on her brother, and she asks her friend about it. She gets upset, and then she comes to find out later that the guy that she had a crush on doesn't even like her. So she made her friend upset for nothing because the guy doesn't even like her. You know what I mean. I don't get it. It's like it's like she's putting the car in front

of the horse. It's like, why I say that she likes someone if she doesn't even know if they like him like her back Dean saying that it's risky to go to the sister first. It could cost you both of them exactly. Yeah, So this is what I think she's should do. I think she should sit him both down at the same time and say, listen, and this is the deal. This is what's going on. I got a crush on you, you're my best friend. How do we proceed? What do we do next? And then you

come to a mutual understanding inclusion. Yeah, have an intervention about liking someone. I I think see, I think Hannah talked to the talk to your best friend. Be like, listen, I like your brother. Would your brother ever date me? That's the right thing to do. But Dean makes a point that's definitely the good advice, don't get me wrong. But but yeah, I just wanted to play the other side, play the other angle a little bit. I don't hate feeling out the boyfriend a little bit before you go

to bit. Just maybe it's just a little bit of flirting, just to see if this if he's receptive to it, and then go to the sister. Right, But don't overstep because if if, if your best friend gets wind that you're trying to date her brother without having heard from you first, that's that's when the friendship is it's no longer a friendship after that. I'm under the impression that there's already been flirtation between Hannah and the best friend's brother,

which is why she has a crush on him. Yeah, when I was young, I had a crushed on people that I've never even talked to. So I had a huge crush on my friend's older sister. Isn't that like the it's amazing. How like every older sister was this hot at you know, like when I was eleven, if they were like fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years old, like they were just like the hottest girl ever. Did you ever tell your your buddy about it? Oh, we used to bust his balls all the time. Of course she was,

you know, she was attractive girl. But it's just like amazing, how like the older sisch is always the hottest one. I actually I I made out with my one of my really good friends older cousin one time, and it was like one of the coolest moments of my life because she was like five years older than me. She was the hot older cousin and for some reason she was like, yeah, this guy's hot, and I was like, all right, let's do it. That's awesome, dude. I didn't know how cool you were. Oh I was. It was

it was like momentarily cool. I was like cool for like a day and then it went back to normal. But for that day I was, I was all right. From Samantha, if a guy asks you to marry him and you say, I don't know, I need to think about it, is that a no, or does that guy think it's a no. My boyfriend asked me to marry him, and I said, I think about it. Seven. We've been dating a year and a half. I do love him. I can see myself marrying him one day, but I don't know if I'm ready to be engaged in a

wife yet. I love my job and worry I'm in life right now. I don't want that to change. I don't want to break up, but I fear we will if I say no to right now. I feel like I have to give him an answer soon, so please help me out. You know what's so funny about this. With engagements were so accustomed to it has to be either a yes or no. But saying I'll think about it is probably the most responsible response somebody can have to the most important question of their life, Like will

you spend the rest of your life with me? Well, let me think about it. That's very understanding, and like I I can understand why someone had that response, Uh, even though this guy's definitely shattered. Like if if I asked, like if I asked Ashley to marry me and she goes, well, let me think about it, like I, I would be done. I would just quickly sink into the ground to which I was kneeling on. Um. I mean, I don't know.

It all depends on Samantha. If you think you're ready in life, you know, Um, you've been together for what a year and a half. Uh, that's a decent amount of time. I wonder if you guys lived together at all your seven Um, you don't want to lose him, which is a big factor because she says she doesn't want to break up. Let me ask you this, since you're married, Uh, and you already you already said the pr life thing. It's it's you know, you've already made

that promise. Um. If this girl is saying that she can see a life with this guy, why wouldn't she just go and marry it? Like, what what do you think care hesitation is? Well? I mean, to be fair, it is. Uh. It's a scary endeavor. Like we were talking to Eric and Stephanie earlier about knowing when the right time to get a divorces, it's also very difficult to know when is the right time to choose that this is the person I'm going to spend the rest

of my life with. Sometimes you just got to dive in and I think really it comes down to what which outweighs what like what's more important to you spending the rest of your life? Was this particular person or losing that like which will impact you, uh greater? I think that's the question at hand, you know, And I'm

sure you asked the same thing with Kalen. Is Like you know, if Klin, say Calein asked you to marry her, I'm sure you'd have to think about the same thing, Like, you know, does the year of losing this person outweigh um, they'll want to be with them for the rest of my life? I don't know. You know what's funny about this, though, I kind of I have this up on my screen really quickly, so I might as well talk about it. Uh. It's from the spruce dot com, so take it with

a grain of salt. But it talks about the wrong reasons to get married and the right reasons to get married, which is right up this emails Alley, So, uh, can I just run through a couple of these really quickly if you don't mind? All right? So a couple of wrong reasons to get married you feel too guilty or ashamed to back out when plagued with doubt, you're willing to gamble on a future spouse changing or having potential,

so your fear that this person will change. Uh. You wanna to have sex, so don't get married if you just want to have sex to ease loneliness, to be happy, to show your an adult or pregnancy kids because you want a baby, uh for money purposes, because all your friends are married, out of the fear that you will

never marry anybody else, you're tired of being single. Those are the reasons not to get married, apparently, And some of the right reasons to get married are you're in love with one another, a desire to share your life with this person, to have a lifetime companion. You both have realistic expectations and shared goals. I think shared goals is a big one. I think if you share certain goals with somebody, you know with family purposes, go like

overall life goals. Because Dean, I'm sure you know traveling is very important to you. Having a certain level of independence is very important to you. And if Klin wasn't allowing that to you, I don't know if you guys would have a successful relationship. Yeah, No, you're absolutely right.

It's funny actually, because when you're reading off those don'ts, it made me think of one of my friends who is uh considering breaking up with his girlfriend, and his reason for not breaking up with his girlfriend was that all of his friends are in relationships and so he doesn't want to be the only single person. It's a

bad reason to stay with someone exactly. I was like, dude, you shouldn't be in a relationship just because your friends are in relationships, and like you don't want to be alone and single, Like, that's not a good reason to stay in a crappy relationship. I don't know, that's just the first that's where my mind went when you were saying that. But you're right, I do, but I do agree that shared goals is super important, and uh, in my Kalen's situation, it's nice that what's nice is Um.

When we first started dating, we were very clear with each other about the who we were and what we wanted, and so I was always like, look, I like like you said. I like my independence. I want to be able to to go places as often as we can,

and sometimes I want to go places alone. Sometimes I would love if you were to come with me, Um, and so now it kind of at the president where it's like if I want to, like, for instance, right now, like if I want to go on a camping trip for three days by myself, It's not like straight out of left field where she's like, well, what do you mean you want to go by yourself for three days?

That doesn't really make any sense. Uh. And so I don't know if that scessarily shared goal in that sense, but uh, it's a very shared understanding of of what we are interested in doing. Um. And it's and one thing just to chime in with. At the top of this podcast, we were talking about soul mats and you had the pleasure of asking Ashley in person if she was your soul mate and and or if you were her soulmate. I didn't have that luxury, So I texted Kalin uh right after we talked about that, and I

just said, Hey, do you think we're soulmates? And she what do you guys think? She said, I guess I would like to hear what you think she might have said. She definitely said, yes, Mark, what do you think I think she threw it back on you and she said, what do you think? Uh? Yeah, Okay, Well, you guys are both right, I said, I said, do you think we're soul mates? And she said yes, and then she said next next text, she said do you and then I just I just responded, you do She said you

and me? Yeah, of course, and I just said I just said of course she said, she said yes, of course you don't. And I haven't responded to that one. Oh God, she better, But yeah, I just wanted to. I wanted to share that because we didn't have the luxury of having heard chime in and live on that. You guys are so freaking adorable. I'm telling you. You know who's not so mates. Samantha and this dude. I don't think this is the guy for her, and I think she is scared to break up with him and

start over again. But I don't think this is the guy for her. She should be super Why she says she can see herself marrying him one day. Yeah she can, but she's not excited about it. So what's wrong with saying if someone asks you when someone is down in the knee and they pull out her ring, I feel like you should be overwhelmed with joy, and if you're not,

I think it's a red flag. I think it's a problem, and maybe she hasn't to drush that deep down inside because she could say yes and then have a long engagement. There's nothing wrong with that. That's honestly what I was thinking she should do is say yes, get engaged, planned like a two at least two year engagement, and then see where you're at in two years. And if it's like, yeah, I'm I'm all in. Like they came to fruition this idea,

you could see yourself marrying and then great. And if over the two years the relationship dissolves, then you know, before you get married, and you've already destroyed this guy by saying you'll think about it, so oh yeah, I mean he's done. It might be trying to move on and the one more quick. When Katie's she like this guy on the standing app He's really cute, but all the pictures he has a closed mouth smile, so she assumes he has bad teeth. She says, I don't need

perfect teeth, but I need pretty good teeth. I'm big on teeth. How do you get someone to smile with their teeth before you meet them without being rude? Well, listen, if somebody on the first date doesn't smile with their teeth the entire time, then something's up with that mouth. So just but what about on all of it the photos on his app Right, he's hiding something, don't you think? Probably, but that shouldn't be a deterran from her going on a date with this guy. Find out I think it

do his zoom date. Don't waste your time find out that first well. And also maybe maybe he thinks his teeth aren't worth smiling for, but she might like him, Like you know, everyone, when I had I had bad, not bad teeth. I had a bad tooth in high school and one crooked tooth, and I hated it so much and it was the only thing that I ever saw in photos whenever I smiled, and I hated it and I couldn't I can't express to you guys how

much I hated this one crooked tooth. But everyone else thought that I had the best smile in the world. And I was like, but look at this stupid crooked tooth, And everyone's like, oh, that tiny little crooked tooth, what do you mean? So maybe he's on that same camp where he thinks he has a bad smile, but in reality, other people think that he has a nice smile. You know what I think, Dean, You hated that tooth so much because it was the one flaw in that perfect face. Yeah, no,

you're absolutely right. And then you want know what's funny is I've gotten and I've got Invisi line three times on three separate occasions to fix the stupid crooked tooth. And every time it fixes it a little bit more and a little bit more. But it's still not perfect. And every time I smile, even now after having invisi line three times, I still only see that one slightly crooked too. You gotta get that face perfect, bro, it

has to be perfect on every angle. I have a I have a like a fang tooth that I always have been self conscious about um, and like even I'll get comments about it about how I have vampire teeth, But honestly, I've grown to really like it now because I feel that it's kind of become a part of my I don't know who I am, Like I have a vampire tooth, Like I kind of like that it's a little bit different. Yeah, I agree, I think you

have great teeth. Well, thanks, Bro, I think you have great teeth as well, all because of a line I think. I think, my little crooked tooth, it's it's what's keeping me at a nine point nine. And if I had that one too straight, I would be a tent out of ten. But Dean's right. We all know somebody who was told by someone at some point that they have their their their smile is too gummy, or their teeth are weird, when the truth is they have a great smile.

I work with one. I'm not going to name them, but she doesn't smile with her teeth, and I don't get it because she has a beautiful smile, but some were along the way she got the impression that it was bad. So yeah, this guy is probably self conscious. Doesn't mean he has bad teeth. I agree. That's sad. I don't know who that person there is. That's very sad, Dean. I'm looking at pictures of you right now, dude. Your your teeth are legitimately perfect. What are you talking about?

Who marks? Who? Amne? Yeah? No, I know, but it's like, well, you know, when you know what to look for, you can see it. I'm not going to tell you what to look for, but it's there's just one little tooth that just doesn't want to be straight. And you know what, I respect your approach where you're like, it's just me, this is who I am, and I'm happy with it

and I am that way. But it's just when it comes to teeth, my own teeth specifically, I just it's the one thing that just really bugs me so so much. That's fair, brother, that that is fair. Um, do we want to do another email or should we just call it quits for the day. I think those are the emails for the day. Man. I think that's the podcast, as sad as it is, But time flies by when you're listening to help I suck at dating. That was

a fun one. That was a good one. Thanks for sticking with me as I struggled to hear you guys talk, and you probably didn't hear anything I said for a lot of the time too, So I appreciate you guys are working with me on there. Hey anytime, brother, anytime. Thanks for thanks for being you Dean. Oh, I want to give one quick shout out. So Kaitlin and I went down to San Diego this past weekend for like

little staycation, played some golf, et cetera. And as we were going to get dinner one night or breakfast one morning, I'm sorry, this girl like stops us and she's like, obviously we're wearing masks, so kudos to her for even spotting us in the first place. And she goes, I'm your biggest and of your podcast. I listen every week. I can't wait till week to listen next week because I might suck a little bit less. And I was like, Wow, this girl is rattling off even our catchphrases and stuff.

So I want to give a quick shout. I want to give a quick shout out to her for being a super fan. We need to get here one of those beanies whenever we come out with those, but I just wanted to give her a quick shout out. That's awesome. Shout out to her. I wish I knew her name, but shout out to the San Diego girl who spotted Klin and Dean even in mask And thank you for being a fan of the podcast. Uh, we really appreciate it, because I mean, we say it every week, but it's true.

Without you guys, there is no podcast. And we can't thank you enough for listening, especially to us because I feel like Dan and I just like say nonsense all the time. Yeah, yeah, you do, you absolutely do well. Do you want to say some nonsense and get us out of here for the week. Absolutely. Thank you to Eric and Stephanie spett Um for joining us on the podcast. You can listen to their podcast Divorce Done Well wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you to all the emailers

who sent us emails. You know that's our favorite part of the podcast, so please keep sending us emails. You can follow us on Instagram Help by sec at Dating. You can also join our Facebook group help Us a dating pod cast, and then I think that is Dean. Thank you so much for being the wonderful man you are, and then make sure you guys tune in next week were hopefully we all suck a little less. Follow Help by Suck at Dating on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to podcast