Feeling Needy with Becca Tilley

hell are you? How are you? I was so excited to do this with you. Oh, thank you. I know I wish Dean was here, but Dean so I don't know if you know that Dean is backpacking I think the mountains in Pakistan. Yeah, I saw his post last night that was like if if you don't hear from me in two weeks, uh, basically like send out a search warrant. So yeah, I don't know how Klin does it, because could you imagine if Haley was like, hey, listen, I'm just gonna go uh in the middle of nowhere

and not have any service for two weeks. So just for those two weeks. Just pray that I'm alive. No, I Hayley's on tour right now, and I'm already like, well, less about the worry and more about the attention part of it, you know, Like I can't imagine her just going off the grid. I would be I think I would worry myself sick with anxiety. Oh, I always think the worst every I would wake up every day and be like, up, he's dead. It's so bad. But it's just the worst. Um. So, Haley's on tour right now.

So how do you guys? How long is she on tour? Four? So she's on tour till September twenty three or something like in that area, so a little about eight weeks or six weeks, yeah, like a month and a half. How do you guys do long distance? Well, you know, when we met, we met five days before she left for her first tour. So that time of our life, when we first started dating, all we knew was long distance because she was gone for most of that year in two thousand and eighteen, and then she was like

touring Europe. So we adjusted to it at that point and we were still getting to know each other. But now it's different because we had the pandemic and we've had so much time together and realize that we actually like love being together seven and so um it's it's actually been like an adjustment, mostly for me because I my whole life, I was like, I love being alone, I love sleeping alone. I don't need anybody, and then it's like you meet someone that changes everything and you're like, oh,

maybe I'm more needy than I realized. I think, do you ever crave moments of being alone? Um? I don't. I do, but like not from Haley, like Haley like

the only exception. And I feel like when I socialize a lot, and if we're doing a lot of group things, I'll be like I need him alone, but I'm not necessarily meeting space or time from her, just mostly like I just need because I think when you find someone that you're just like comfortable with in any setting, you're just like we can just sit in the room and not have to do anything or talk, but just like

work together. Yeah. So Ashley always phrases it, whenever she's with me, she feels like she's alone, but in the best way possible because she never we never get tired of being around one another. She's one of the first people I've ever met or been around so much in my life that I truly don't get tired of. And

I think that's a great sign for any relationship. One of the best pieces of advice I've ever got, I'm going to name drop right now, was from Sir Rob Thomas, and uh he said that, um, you know, with marriage, Uh you know, he's been married to his wife for a very long time now, and he said that one the most important advice he gives to anybody who's in a relationship is that this person, whoever you marry or whoever you're with, you will be with every day for

the rest of your life, and you will have a conversation with every single day for the rest of your life, similar to what Dawson is trying to do right now. I'm pretty sure Dawson's trying to have a conversation. He went to wig in on this conversation. Dawson, Penny for your thoughts, how do you think our relationship goes? It is weird when I think about, you know, being his father. We were hanging out yesterday and uh, he's already kind

of my best friend, and that's cool. I know him so well, but it makes me kind of sad because I think that he's never gonna remember, Like he'll never remember these moments. He'll never have memories of this time in his life where this is probably one of the most impactful times of my life with him. Yeah, like

that makes me sad. I think about my own parents and how much care and love they put into me when I was a baby and literally couldn't hold my own head up, And it's just something that I've just always taken for granted and have never given a second

thought until my adult years when I had a kid. Yeah, but it's one of those things, like I think there's every cycle of life where we go through these things right where it's like like I would think about when I moved out to California with my older sister my brother in law, and then I didn't realize how much they had done for me just by letting me live with them and like giving me that opportunity until I owned my own place and then my younger sisters came

and lived with me. It's like that thing that you don't realize how important and how impactful it was until you are experiencing it yourself, so like, of course, I can't even imagine what it feels like having a child, and like the exhaustion and the love and the effort that you're putting into just keeping him happy and fed and alive. And he's just like, I'm a baby. This

is what this is what you have to do. He just he'll he'll cry and cry and cry, and then we'll sit him up and he'll smile at us, and then it's like, all right, well that was all worth it does so Ashley said, actually always talks about how he needs attention seven. Well, the problem is we give him attention seven. So now I think he's getting accustomed to it, and whenever we don't give him attention, he's like, well, what the hell is this? I I you know, this

is not the way life is supposed to be. So we're in the phase right now where he's he's had a little bit of a sleep progression for the past month, so he wakes up every like three or four hours, and we're gonna have to get to a point where we just let him cry it out. Yeah, And we tried doing it last night. It did not work, because you know, he was crying for like ten straight minutes since Ashley's like, can't do it. I can't do it.

I can't let him cry like this, and so she went up and comforted him, and uh so we're gonna have to ease into that because I you know, it's hard because you you love him so much. We live, we love him so much. We want to make sure that if he's crying or in any discomfort, we take care of him and give him the attention that you

know he's obviously begging for. But at the same time, I feel like we're doing him a disservice because I want him to be, you know, grow up, to become an independent kid and an adult and someone who can you rely on himself. And I don't know, I get nervous in these formative years that he's just gonna grow up and be like, oh no, they like if I cry, I get attention. That's the way life works. Well, I

think you have some time before I think. I mean, there's so many I also can't imagine being a parent now. There's so many opinions in every direction you turn, Like if you posted about that on Instagram, you would get one thousand different opinions on what you should do, and it's like you just have to do what works, you know. It's like like yeah, and like you tried it last night. Ten minutes is a long time to listen to your baby cry, So of course it's like, hey, I can.

I would be the same way. So I think y'all are doing an amazing job. And I think the fact that he loves your attention and once your attention is a great thing. And hopefully he continues to want and love your attention throughout his life and he doesn't go through now st teenager, I know, but he definitely is.

We were talking about it, actually, and I always talked about it, how like one day he's just gonna he's gonna tell us that he hates us and he's not gonna mean it, and where we know that he won't mean it, and then there's gonna be times where he doesn't want to hang out with us. The thing was, Ashley was just not that kid. She was the kid that wanted to sit next to her mom on field trips on the bus. She was the kid who always wanted to go hang out with her parents on weekends.

So that's troublesome because I certainly loved my parents, but you know, of course I wanted to you know, not be around them, or I was embarrassed or I remember, you know, my dad used to kiss me my I guess this is a weird thing, but like, my dad used to kiss me on the lips till I was probably like I don't know, like six or seven, I guess.

And I remember I pulled up to school and my dad kiss me on the lips, and then we left and then like my friends are like it's gross, like so disgusting, blah blah blah blah blah, and then I was like, uh, well, yeah, no, you're right, and then obviously that stopped there, and uh, I don't know. I'm just thinking about the things that I'm going to do to embarrass Dawson. I think we're gonna be pretty cool parents, though, I mean his parents were on TV, so we already

have like a you'll have the best I was. I was laying in bed last night thinking about how y'all story is literally a written rom calm, Like everything about it, like from just the little things, like just Ashley's personality as a whole is like a rom calm to me, and I love it. So much because I just think of the potential of a script written about y'all's life, and how has someone not done it yet. She's so wonderful and yet the biggest pain in the ass. But

that's what makes her such a romantic comedy character. Even today, we were hanging things up on the wall and I swear to god, I hung up a picture that was a quarter all right, It was like a half inch off from center, but it still looked really good. And I was like, oh, it looks good. And she's just staring at it and I'm like, ash, it looks good. And she's like, I don't think I could live with it like that. And I'm like, oh my god, get out, I'm moving it. I'm going to move it a quarter

of an inch down, you, psycho. So and then she's like, it's me. It's me. It's not you. It's me. I'm the crazy one. I'm like, I'm aware, but I will move it. I will move it. So anyway, that's what makes her such a good character. But anyway, we were talking about you, we were talking about Haley. So you guys met five days before you went on she went

on tour. Yeah, so we met at her album released party, which was on a Wednesday, and then we like had drinks and hung out and like actually realized we liked each other that weekend and then she left and I was like, okay, you know, my mind was like, maybe this was just like a fun weekend. Oh I didn't know her. I didn't know like you hear things like the life of a touring artist, and you don't assume that they're like ready for like settling down or commitment.

So I kind of was like, we'll see what happens. And yeah, I mean we've talked every day since then, so we basically started dating when we that weekend we hung out for the first time. So you guys did like she asked you out? Did you ask her out? And then my question is when she left for the five days, did you reach out? Did she reach out?

How did the conversation keep going? Because I guess a lot of people it would have probably just ended there and because we're like, oh that was fun few days, and then you would have waited for them to reach out and they would have never reached out, and then it was like that one fling. I think this is the difference in this relationship because I've always loved like The Chase, and with Haley, there was never that guessing game, Like we just talked. There was never like who's going

to text you first? Like it was just like if I wanted to text our, text her, If she wanted to text me, she text me. If we wanted to talk on FaceTime, we FaceTime. Like there was never this

like back and forth cat and mouse saying. It just was like so easy from the beginning in the sense of like we knew that we both liked each other, and there was never, like, um, a guessing game, and I had never experienced that because I was so used to like seeking that game and like thriving on the Chase, and um, yeah, it was like it's been it was nice to not I never even thought about it till someone asked me later on, like, um, who I think, like who made the first move? And I was like,

I don't. I think there was just it was just a knowing, which was cool. That's very nice because usually it's not that way. No, it's very rarely that way. That's really nice. So did you go visit her when she was on tour? Yeah, so I went to, Um, I think her for the first time I visited her, we were we went to she was in Minneapolis, so like we went to Mall of America, which was really you know, I don't know if you've ever been there. I have not heard. Um, so I'm a big mall rat,

not gonna lie. I'm that guy, and uh, I want to go just because it's the biggest ball in America. It's really cool. I mean they have like a whole section. It was like a roller coaster and like a whole like little amusement park in there. And yeah, it was really fun and it was always fun to go visit her, and um, that was just our life and what we knew and then and so when the pandemic hit and we were together all the time. She loves she loves to work, like she is so passionate about what she does.

And she you know, even during the pandemic, it was like, Okay, I'm obviously not doing music, so I'm gonna I'm gonna like try and write a script. Like that's her mindset where I'm like, I'm just trying to do a puzzle, you know, I'm just trying to get a puzzle done

and find some new music. Like there wasn't she just she always loves to work, and so um, when I realized that we actually loved being around each other was kind of during that time because we didn't have a choice and it was like her being stuck in the house was her worst nightmare, and we made it work. And so after that, I was like, we're pretty good together. I'm I'm excited. Yeah, the pandemic made or broke a lot of relationships because that's when you realized, oh, wow,

can I be with this person all the time? And you found out pretty quickly, And I'm glad that you found out for the for the better. That's awesome. I know I feel that way. I I agree with you. I think a lot of people realize like, okay, we we are in this for the long run, or like we have some things to talk about, especially with the pandemic, because there's so much stress put on, especially in the beginning.

So not only were you forced to live with one another, but you were also forced to really see each other, you know, in the most high stressed of environments where nobody knew what was going on. You had to try to keep working, nobody was making money, You couldn't go outside you couldn't be around people. And then I mean, I remember I was crazy in the beginning. I was the guy washing every single piece of groceries that we got,

you know. I was the guy who would make sure that we wouldn't go into the grocery store we'd get, like, would go on the app and make sure that they would come out and put the groceries in the trunk, and then I go home. We wouldn't bring the bags in. I'd go outside with my gloves and I'd wash every single piece of whatever, you know, popcorn or cereal or

whatever the hell we got. And uh man, looking back, that was so stupid, Like, yeah, you find out it didn't even spread that way, I know, but no one knew. Like we were just all doing our best, and that was like the most we could do, honestly, so seriously and at least past the time, you know, I was like I got something to do. At least. I remember I read a lot too, that was nice. I read a lot during that time. That was fun. I don't read anymore. It's so dared, like literally, what part of

your day when to read? Right now? There's no time because I try to read before I go to bed, but I'm so tired that I don't, and I end up scrolling on my phone for twenty minutes. I'm like, man, that's twenty minutes I could be reading a book and feel better about myself instead of just scrolling through Instagram or TikTok and then just feeling worse about myself because I'm like, man, I'm a piece of shit. I why

do we do it? It's like we all literally have these same conversations of wishing we didn't do the doom squirrel? Why don't we all? And I do it right before I go to bed, and I'm always like, I don't know why I had trouble sleeping. I couldn't go to sleep. And it's like, oh yeah, I sat there and scrolled and watch other people's lives for however many hours without even realizing sales on YouTube. I've gotten into that. It's so pathetic. It's so pathetic. They're the best. Oh my god,

they're the best. They're so awesome. Whether it be the guy who's like it's just so stupid anyway, um, well, continue to say that's I was just gonna say, like, at least that's mindless, and it's just kind of like something to just in the day with I will be like on TikTok and it will be talking about like deep religious trauma or something that's like not peaceful before I go to sleep, and I'm like, why do I do this to myself? So? How long have you and

Haley been together? Now, we've been together for a little over four years. That's crazy. And so you obviously just came out in a public relationship. Was it five months ago? Just about? And it was in May? So however many even for much time, like what three months ago? So how does it feel now that you're in a public relationship. Do you feel a sense of relief? Do you feel an adage stress? Um, I've definitely feel a sense of relief.

I never realized because like we were public in the sense that everyone knew about you know, everyone that everyone knew about its like if when we came to Ben's wedding, Haley came with me, like you didn't like we were a secret. We just were not on social media. And I never thought that that us being public on social media would give me relief because I felt like I lived my life in real life so much. But um, yeah, it did. It. It made me feel so much lighter

and I never expected to have that feeling. And the stress part of it is, I think being together for four years, I don't really feel the stress as much because we got to do it on our own timeline. And so even still it's like, yeah, people know about us, but it's still like up to us how much we post. And I think that's that's what makes me feel secure

and like takes the stress part away of it. Was there ever a conversation before that, you guys, before you know, obviously you're living your lives be didn't post on social and you know, whether people think it's for the better or worse, Social media has become such an important part of not only our lives but relationships. You know Facebook status or you know, posting your significan get other on

Instagram so everybody knows that you're in a relationship. You know, we talked about on the podcast before about it's it almost becomes awkward sometimes when people don't post about their significant others, because then it asked questions like, well, why won't you post about me? You know, is there a reason why are you afraid to post about me? Is there something else? Going on. So was there any of that, like,

did you ever feel this pressure? Like, man, I you know, I don't want Haley to feel like I don't love her, you know, so I want to post about her. Um. I think she and she understood where I was coming from in this sense that she was the first woman I had ever been in a relationship with, and I also came from a very um hetero world of being on the Bachelor and having a huge following from the Bachelor, and also like you know, navigating all the things that

I was going through personally. I think she was very understand ending of my situation. We definitely had conversations where she was like, I just you know, I was in the closet for so long, and I'm really comfortable being who I am, and like I'm very much out and celebrated for who I am. So UM. I always tried to make sure she knew that it was private and not secret, because I never wanted her to feel like

a secret or feel like I was ashamed. I just wanted it to be like, Hey, I'm navigating this for the first time. I love you so much. If if we ever like met people, I was pretty much like this and my girlfriend. I tried my very best to never say like this and my friend you know, um, and I was just trying to navigate and she was

really understanding. But we definitely had conversations where that was, you know, hard because she is celebrated for who she is and has been and has already gone through this process of like coming out and and the fear of that, and then I was kind of behind in this since

navigating it for the first time. So they were definitely conversations, but we always came to an agreement of like, it doesn't matter what is posted on social media, and sometimes like honestly, when you're public or when you are public on social media, there's that pressure when you don't post together for a while, if it's like not even intentional or you're just like and you know, I'm not seeing Hailey for a few months, so we're not going to

be together. If people are going to be like, you haven't posted with her in a while, what does that mean? It like brings on those questions. Um, So it kind of adds to it on that other side as well. Yeah, it's a weird world. Um. I think Ashley and I are kind of lucky. To extent that, Um, well, I think I'm lucky that Ashley is just so open and honest about everything that I think I've kind of given up.

I remember when her and I first got together, I would be the person a little bit more reserved should be posting should we do, you know, ads together? It's just kind of, you know, I don't want people thinking that we're just in this for money or this is a publicity stunt. And you know, she's truly the one who just tellsn't give a crap, and and and it's like, so we're gonna what detriment our future because we care

about what people think about us. I'm like, yeah, I guess when you put it that way, that makes a lot of sense. Like it's so true. Yesterday was saying, I don't even remember what I was thinking about, but I was what my example was. But I was thinking about how why we choose not to do certain things. But oh, I was watching this couple at the beach the other day and they were just having the best time, Like they did not care who was watching them. They

were like in the water, like splashing each other. They were just like so focused and on that moment with each other, and I was like, humans are so drawn to emotion, Like we're so drawn to joy and sadness and or like we're so invested in emotion. And I feel like I don't know if it's the social media age or whatever, but there's always this need or like people feel like they need to like look a certain

way or like be cool. And I think with um, I was thinking, if you ever choose not to do something, make sure it's for yourself and not because of what other people think. Because like in the grand scheme of life, you get one shot, so like you're not going to do something that you really want to do because you're

scared of what someone's gonna think. It's so stupid if you like really like to see the spectrum of you know, how short we have here and like what we what we don't do or do do based on what other people think. And I've always loved actually for that because she's just like, I don't care. It was you know, I've always been attracted to people like that, and um, you know, I've always been envious of people who can do that because for a long time in my life I was unable to do that. I was unable to

really put myself out there. You know, I'd put myself out there to a certain extent obviously, you know, I mean I went to the freaking Bachelor, for Christ's sakes, but um, you know, it was always with a sense of reservation. It was always a sense of like holding certain parts of me back because I was always scared that people would kind of figure out that, Okay, he's not as put together or cool as we thought he

might be. And I thought that by holding myself back and not doing certain things or putting myself in vulnerable situations would make me, um, I don't know, feel better about myself. But in truth, it was the complete opposite, because whenever I would see or be with people, would be friends with people who would just do, you know, things, not whatever they wanted to do, but you know, like hey, let's go. Uh it would be like, um, let's fly

kights in the park. I remember that one time. It was a friend of mine years ago, and she's just always so out there and uh she's great, and uh she's married with kids now, but I just remember she was like, let's go fly kights in the park. And I was like, well, I don't do that, Like that's not even though in my mind I was like I would love to do that, but I was like, I'm not doing that in no way, and then we ended up doing it. I was like, Wow, that was so

much fun. I should be doing this more often. But then Ashley has really brought out that side of b you know, tenfold, where now I just feel that, you know, a lot of times in in stressful situations, whether it be about work or Dawson or the house or money, financials or anything like that, like, you know what, I'm not dead, you know, and that's better than what a lot of people can say. Unfortunately, you know, we're here, you know, luckily, you know, I still get to have

times with my family. We have a healthy kid, I love my wife. You know, we have a roof over our head and I'm breathing. That's more than what a lot of people could say. So that centers me a lot, similar to like what you were talking about those two people in the water, where it's just like you're in the ocean and you're you're with somebody you want to be with and life is just a collection of moments. That's what I've kind of figured out over about life is that. I don't know if I figured out I

don't have figured out a lot of things. But what I think life is is just like these collection of moments, um that add up to you know, becoming a life. And so you know, we just try to make up as many of those moments as possible. This guy really philosophical, didn't it. Damn? Yeah? I got deep, deep, deep, God Damn. I want to continue getting deep though. We have a few more minutes. Um, So what are your thoughts? Do you think that you and Haley will get married one day? Um?

I think we're both like, I think we both know we want to be with each other. I'm I always thought of myself as being like super traditional, But the more i'm I think I'm allowing myself to have my own opinion on things and like figure things out for myself. I I just don't know, Like I've never been. I've never been someone who like envisioned myself as a bribe, you know, Like I don't relate to to the like movies.

So of like I always dreamed of this is a little girl, I'm like, I'm not like that at all. And I think Hayley is, Um, I think she always hoped for the traditional things because she thought she would never be able to have them, you know, as a kid, like knowing she was gay and then being like seeing what the world looked like for gay people. I don't think she ever thought like, oh I could have the

traditional things. But um, I think we're both in the same page right now where we like see a future together. But I don't know if we're like if we'll do like a traditional marriage, I don't know. I think right now we're like just happy to be public on public, have a relationship totally one step at a time. I wish Dean was here because Dean has always talked about how marriage is. I'm born to Calin, so he'll marry

Calin because of how much it means to her. Yeah, do you think you'll ever get into a point where you would possibly proposed to Hailey because you know how important it is to her? If it is that important. Yeah, I feel like if we ever had a conversation and she was like, this is you know, like really important or make it or break it for me, I would totally do that. I'm not I'm not like, oh you I'm not that. Um again, I'm not against it. At all.

Just I'm like, yeah, I'm like, maybe if we got to have a party and like celebrate and have all all of our friends there and made like a commitment to each other, I think that's beautiful. Like I think there's so much beauty and tradition but um in marriage. But I um, yeah, I think we're both kind of It's nice because right now we're on the same page.

But if that pressure ever came where it was like, hey, this is something that I realized I really want and it's really important to me, I would never be like I'm not going to give that to you or you know totally. So, now that you've been together with Haley for four years, what do you think you suck at dating? Most? Oh, well, I've I've learned a lot about what I suck at dating. I um, I'm working on it. I'm like, you know, we're all working on it therapy and stuff. But I'm

I'm I have a hard time communicating my needs. Like I've always like, this is every relationship, friendships, everything where I just do what everyone else needs for me, and I am like I'm fine, I'm fine, I don't need anything. And then I get to a point where I feel like I haven't been um like thought of or considered, and so then I'm like, I do everything for everybody, and no one doesn't UM And so I think communicating my needs has been like the most obvious thing, one

of the things I suck at dating. I couldn't I relate to that a lot. Ashley has yelled at me many times for being unable to communicate what I want or what I need. Uh. There'll be many times where she can tell something's wrong with me and I'm like, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, and she's like, just tell me, and then I will tell her and then I'll feel better. And then she's like, isn't that better

just to say what's bothering you? But the problem becomes now I'm starting to cross that line where I'm feel like I'm complaining too much, not to Ashley, but two people who are more like me, like my parents, because I've had so many moments in the past where like my parents will be like, how you doing, I'm like, I'm good, and that's just like it's not. Yeah, it sounds so bad because it sounds so surface level and

it's not. It's not meant to be like that, but like now I'll they'll be like, how are you doing. I'm like, I'm not that good, and they're like, oh, what's uh, what's wrong? They almost won't to know how to deal with it, And I'm like, oh, I'm so used to dealing with Ashley, who's just like tells how it is. And and then uh so that's like a boundary that I'm getting with. As Ashley's combing her hair in the background, we did have some hot topics that

we didn't even have time to go over. Becca, You're so wonderful, You're so good at this, you should really host your own podcast one day. Um, so, well, I guess let's get into one here. We have a couple of hot topics. So Lorie Harvey, who's um Steve Harvey's daughter, she had her dating green flags and red flags after Michael B. Jordan's split. I'm not gonna lie, I didn't know they ever dated, but she's twenty five, she's did I don't is that like a thing? Should I have

known that that Steve Harvey's daughter? Were just like, I don't, well, I I don't think I realized that was Steve Harvey's daughter. That's that's the thing that I'm isn't it in my wrongs? Am I just spreading face? Oh? You might be, but but they were so beautiful together. But I'm curious to hear her red flags and green flags of dating. Yeah, that's her daughter, Lorie Harvey. Uh, Michael B. Jordan's dude, might could be Jordan's stud. I'm not gonna lie. I

love Michael P. Jordan's Yeah. He Oh yeah, you're right, Jared. Somebody just perfect love it. Um yeah, I love Creed So you know, that's just always a good one. So good, so good, um so. Lorie Harvey says that she's dated enough to know who and what she wants in a partner now. Recently, she opened up about more of the telltale signs that she looks for in a partner, including her green flags which are good, red flags which are bad. So these are her green flags, she said, I would

just say transparency, openness, and communication. I mean, duh h, like people it is. I mean, I guess it's a cliche for a reason, but like the amount of times I've heard communication is the most important thing in a relationship. And they're right there, right you actually you were talking about it earlier about your communication with Haley, and I was thinking to my mind about how well you guys have communicated, specifically with before you guys posted about how Hey, listen,

I'm not hiding anything. I'm just doing it at my own time. I love you more than anything. You're so important to me. That's extremely well done of you both. Um, it is so fascinating how communication is so tough. Why is it so hard to like tell people how you feel.

Because we're taught, like we're taught to not need anything, like we're taught to like, well, I feel like my life I was it was like you, Okay, I grew up in a very like Christian based world, and it was like you put everyone above yourself, so like your needs are less than anyone else's. So so when you think like that, you're you think like you're needing something as you being selfish when you ask for when it's just like a basic need, especially in a relationship, it's

like that's you know, your partnership. It's not like a one sided thing where one person is doing every thing for the other. And um, yeah, so I was just never taught that it was okay to have those needs subconsciously, like no one was ever like you're not allowed to have needs. It was just like based on what I was taught, it felt like my needs were me being selfish. Yeah,

it's it's it's weird. I see it more in guys, if I'm being honest then then women in my own personal experience of my friends, because I have so many guys that, you know, while they play sports with and they're like, you know, try to be big macho man and they're fine, they're you know, everything's fine, and uh, it's like I see them in their relationships and there's so many times when they're communicating with their significant others and like you could tell that something's wrong, but like

he won't say anything, and you can tell that they're just getting defensive because they're both getting piste off because they both have like thoughts in their mind that they're just refusing to address. And I guess maybe it's from my time on Bachelor Bachelorette and then also being with Ashley, it's like, bro, just like it's okay to be like, yeah, I you know, I don't know, I I want to

ride a horse. I don't know, like you know what I mean it's like just say what you want to say or do you know, just to express what you want to do and work, I work towards what what's better for your relationship instead of like constantly going through this cycle of like act not actually saying what you want to say and then just becoming angry and defensive over things and then getting into fights and the like. It's just like this constant cycle. I don't know. Um,

so she goes on. She also says that she can appreciate people who are trying to beat around the bush or act like they want something that maybe they really don't. Um, I don't know why that she can appreciate that trying to beat around the bush or act like they want something that maybe they really don't. Yeah, but that's definitely I don't know if I don't uh support that and as a green flag, like don't beat around the bush,

just tell me. Yeah, she's saying like she understands when people are trying to be gentle at expressing like or communicating, like she understands they're trying to be gentle and like beat around the bush. But just was there like a sentence after that, like no, it goes right into the red flags. After that, I'm assuming that she means, like, you know, handle things with grace or trying to you know,

do whatever. Like it's the sandwich effect where it's like you say something good, then you say something bad, and then you say something good again. Uh. Whenever I think of that, though, I think of the first person I think of all the time is Nick File because that guy has and I love that man more than anything. Here. We always talk about this, I really do. But it's so funny how that guy just is like, yeah, I'm just gonna say how it is, even if it hurts

your feelings, even if it makes you cry. I'm just I'm so direct in what I'm saying. Uh. And I've always appreciated it for him. Uh, even though at moments I'm like, bro, just like tell me that things are fine. Just lie to me, Please lie to me, for the love of God. Well, as we know, he wasn't always He's not always right, because he did tell actually like it's never gonna happen. Yeah, that was one of the

biggest straightforward moments. Yeah. Yes, Uh. And then on the red flags, on the other hand, she said, when there's too much communication between the person she's dating and their X. I mean that's a huge red flag. Um. Have you ever been in a situation where you're person you're with I mean, granted you're in Bachelor, so that's bachelor excluded.

Have you ever been in a situation where you've been with someone where they're kind of bringing up their X or they're still friends with their X, but it's like this weird friendship. I haven't, but I would not. I would not do well with that. It wouldn't be comfortable for me. Yeah. Especially, you know, there's so many times where people in this they'll they'll call all their email us and they'll say, oh, you could be friends with

an X, And I'm like, it's so rare. I'm not saying you can, but like I know, for a fact, I was friends with Ashley. We weren't technically excess and we were truly just friends, but it was such a toxic. It was a toxic friendship because it was running any chance we had with other relationships. And then obviously we were both doing that intentionally. Uh maybe a little subconsciously, but most of the time probably on the forefront, because we knew we wanted to be with each other and

I was just an idiot refusing to admit it. Things that I've talked about this podcast before, refusing to admit what I really wanted and um and so, but like that was not I would not want to be with a person that had the friendship that I had with Ashley.

I wouldn't know. I wouldn't be I just like would I even if I tried to act like I was cool, I would get so resentful and like upset about it that I wouldn't be able to like actually have a healthy relationship with my partner because I would always be thinking about why are you so close with them when you have me? Like why why are you even dabbling in that? Yeah? Is there a void in our relationship

that they're supplying your Yeah? Because whether you know, whether I don't know, I know, I'll probably get d NS be like, oh, this is ridiculous support. I've been friends with my ex for years, and I'm like, Okay, great, you're I I wish you nothing but the best. I

truly do. But I just think, you know, you've had a relationship with this person, You've been intimate with this person, most likely even if it's just kissing or like hugging or cuddling, like it's very very intimate moments that it's just like when you're with an X, whether you're like, it's just like so easy to fall back into that that I would. It's not that I don't trust you, but like we're all human beings. We all make mistakes.

So if you put yourself in a scenario where it just takes one moment of a lapse for you to screw things up, like I'm sorry, that will be in

the back of my head. I'm I'm like friendly with Robert because our relationship ended on really good terms and I but I would I could never go and just like hang out with Robert, you know, like I just know the boundary of of respect for Haley, and you know she knows the same for me, and I think that we're friendly, like if we see each other, you know, if he has a company that he's like invited me to things, and it's like if I, well tell Haley and make sure she's okay with it, Like I just

don't cross those boundaries. So I think you can be friends or friendly with an next, but like having like a close intimate friendship with an X is just I agree, you're like setting yourself up for something bad to happen. Yeah. Yeah, and I also agree that not every X is made the same. Um. So we'll finish up this this article very quickly, and then we do have to wrap things up. Um. So of course she goes on, if you're too close

to the next that's a red flag. Um. She said, I don't want you all to have beef with one another in terms of like you and your ex. That obviously makes it get messy, but too much communication just makes her feel uncomfortable. So those are Lorie Harvey's green flags and red flags. Uh. Very sad that her and Michael B. Jordan did not make it. Uh who knows, though you know, you know you found you found out they were together and broken up at the same time.

So yeah, so like legitimately they could get back together tomorrow and uh, it would probably be the same for me. Um. Well, Becca, thank you so much for joining us on this episode of help by Second Dating. I really appreciate it. You are wonderful. Everybody who's listening to help us second Dating. You probably already listened to scrubbing in. But if you don't, um, which you probably do because they get way more listeners than us. Listen to scrubbing In on the I Heart

Radio podcast or wherever you get your your podcast. Of course it's her antonya uh. And then make sure Becca, I think you're sticking around for Thursday's podcasts, which would be the phone calls. Um. Yeah, so we have a couple of callers coming in. We usually do emails, but we've switched over to callers. It's nice having that interaction, So thank you for sticking around to that, and make sure everybody tune in on Thursday. Well hopefully we just

suck a little less. Follow help by suck at dating on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to part that's hold sl