Dating Deeper

Very special episode for you guys. They obviously not only are we all in three separate locations around North America, but we also have Ken Page calling in, who is the author of an incredible new book. We have obviously Vanessa in here to vouch for her side of the poop story that we've discussed a little bit last week and on Almost Famous podcast, and that was Vanessa pooping still and um, we're just going to kind of catch up with everyone and see how everyone's doing. So let's

just kind of get right into it. Well, Dean, happy belated birthday. Oh yeah, thanks guys, thanks for the birthday love. Um it was you know, I'm turning, so there's not really much reason to celebrate nowadays. But Vanessa, you did something pretty exciting recently. I did. So. I was a gymnast for a couple of years, and then naturally, when the gymnasts from my club quit, they went to Circus Lay to become acrobats, and I was like, I want

to become an acrobat. But then it was like, I think about six years after I quit gymnastics, I went to the Cirk School. I did the orientation, I walked around the school, I got familiar with the program, and then I'm like, I think I'm gonna go I think I'm just going to go into teaching. And then I went to university and now, at the age of thirty

one years old, Circus So I contacted me. They're like, we'd love to have you in our headquarters, dressed up as one of the acrobats, put the makeup on, put their costume on, and get a training from the professionals. And I was like, oh my god, this is the best day of my life. So I spent the entire day yesterday, well it was a morning until late afternoon, and it was everything I could have imagined. My body

right now is so sore. I actually did. If you're familiar with gymnastics or or the circus like language, I basically like swung. So there was a guy holding me from my hands and he was swinging me and he released me and then I did a front salto dismount and landed the dismount like I was so so I basically did you know, like when you do a front roll on the floor, So I imagine, imagine like a guy swings you in the air and you like you

do a front flip and then you land on. And I was like, I don't know how many stories high, but I was like I had to climb up the ladder. I was like really really high. Oh man. I was like, I'm not like at least two stories three stories time, so like yeah or more. Yeah. Anyways, it's all, it's all on, it's all, it's we recorded the whole thing. It was. It was amazing. So this was like one of my dreams come. I've been wanting to become an

acrobat for years. And they're like when I was leaving the coaches like Vanessa, I think he needs to switch careers. I was like, you actually think I could become an acrobat. He's like, yeah, just you know, a little bit more training. He was a question guy. I'm not really I'm not really good with with actors, but he was just like super encouraging and it's I don't know if you guys know, but was created from a Montreal troop. So they're they're

Montreal based. So you got your shoeing what you're saying, Yeah, you're homegrown. Yep, that's crazy. I've never been. I've never been to a cirt day a show, but I've heard they're incredible. They're really great. If you're gonna be well, I'm sure they has them in l A. In l A. They're traveling to l A. I can get you a backstage tour. Wow, can you get me into the thing like you did? Can I participate? Probably not? Come on, I'm not up. What are you doing? Okay, fine, I could.

I could definitely try. But let me tell you it was everything i've You know, when you're a little kid, I guess like with sports with you guys, imagine meeting Tom Brady Jarrett. Imagine it every day in my life. So you imagine just like throwing a football with him on the field. That's what I felt like for me. Okay, so so Van Sa you did the Third Day Sleigh thing. It was my birthday recently, Jared, what the heck are you doing over in uh d C. You know, I'm

taking naps really. I went to Duncan Donuts this morning. It was a pretty good time. Living it up, living the life right now. Now we're over here. We were in New York because Ashley had to go to this bridal Fashion Week and I tagged along because our florists. So we're working with a company called Birch in New York. They're pretty incredible and they're doing all our florals for the wedding coming up in August, and so they have a warehouse. Jared, when is the when's your wedding date?

We have? We're not saying the date. We're not saying the venue or the date right now. We're just saying that it's a Newport and it's in Ryland because we just don't want to give away any two specifics. You know, obviously people will find out where the venue is afterwards, but we're kind of keeping it a little bit of

a secret rate now. Um. Plus, we haven't even sent out invitations yet, so like, there's so many people that are coming to the wedding that don't even know where it's at, So let's let's get them knowing where where the venue is before we kind of put it out in the world is yet And we put out so much for the wedding that it's nice to like keep

some things a little bit close to the chest. Anyway, we went to the they have a warehouse in uh Brooklyn, and it was cool because we went into the room and they had the entire room set up as our ballroom, so it was it was a very surreal moment for both Ashley and I walking in and they played Titanic, they played the My Heart Will Go On, so it's very special. I was holding my dog Lois in our arms and you know, I walked out. It was like a very adorable moment that I'll never forget for the

rest of my life. And it was really cool seeing everything kind of come together with the florals and the tablecloth and the silverware and the plating and and the lighting. Um. So you know, we planned it for a few months now and that was the first time we actually saw it all put together. So it was a pretty awesome moment.

And then we came down to d c Um where we did a couple of book readings for our children's book, and uh, we're visiting Ashley's parents down here, and then we head back to l A this weekend because I gotta get back in time for the Avenger's premieres. I'm going you split so much of your time between here

and the East Coast. We do, I mean my parents living obviously, I'm born and raised Rhode Island and Ashley's parents are in Virginia, so um, Plus we're getting married in Rhode Island, so we've had to come back a few times for that, which is a good excuse for me to go home for a little while. And I love the East Coast. I was born and raised here,

so we definitely both want to move back at some point. Uh. The goal would be, you know, to become bi coastal, but obviously we have a long ways to go before then. Well that's where you've ben open the bar right out there, right, I mean, i'd like to man, that's kind of like the long term plan is to open up a bar

back east. I've always worked on the hospitality industry and it's always been a little bit of a dream of mine to open up a bar, and I have a very specific concept that I'd like to do, and I would never want to do it on the West Coast because I just don't know the clientele well enough. I

don't know what would work, what wouldn't work. The retail property over there is far more expensive, So I'd like to bring it back home East Um, where I think I'm a little bit more tapped in and it would probably be a little bit more successful knock on wood. But yet again, that's still years down the road. You know, Actuley and I have a lot more things that we need to do and need to accomplish before we can even start thinking about that. I talked to your fiance

yesterday or I guess the other day. That was the other day on the phone while she was recording the almost famous podcast, because you have announced that both well, I guess all three of us, me, Tanner and uh Nick are going to be groom's been in your wedding. That's public information, right, yes it is. I'd even know that. Oh, that was a very interesting well, I obviously I knew I asked them, but I didn't know it was public

knowledge until I got tagged. Uh well, shout out to this instagram that is like dedicated to mean, it's not your instagram, it's like a fan account. What is it? Team d do you much respect? I gotta love them. Shout out to team Dean. But they posted like saying like oh Dean and Nick or in Jared's bachelor party. This was like last Friday, and I always the last one to know stuff about the wedding. I didn't even

know that was public information. And uh, but Ashley was talking to somebody and she just kind of like said it, um, but yeah, does this mean I'm not invited to the wedding? Can we all just settle down for a minute? Wait? You know that's it? I don't know. We haven't. We're going through the guests this right now. We're just figuring everything out, Dared. I am heartbroken. Let me tell you something. I know. I held off on my vacation plans in August,

and I kept asking. I didn't want to ask you directly. I was like, but I don't know when the wedding is because I there was a trip desk plan in August, and I'm like, well, I'm going to hold off on this on this trip because I want to come. I want to go to the wedding, but I want to book my trip to I'm gonna book my vacae it. Well, definitely don't schedule your vacation around me. I would never want that for a wedding, regardless. You know, it's your wedding.

It's not a birthday party. It's your wedding. It's like, hopefully it's your first and last first. I wouldn't want um. Well, obviously, I mean, listen for all the wonderful things within Bachelor, it's just anyway, well, we're all going to talk about this at some point and figure everything out. The wedding

is still always away. But yes, the point of the story is, Dean, I asked you because Dean, you and I have grown closer ever since the podcast started and become a lot closer friends, and specifically probably over the past like five or six months, I feel like I've grown a lot closer with you, and I'll the what really cemented when I wanted you to be a groomsman was our trip to Foxwood's, because um, you always just

make me happy. Man. You're a very happy, happy guy and you're always so optimistic, and like, I know I want you to be a part of the party because you're I know, you'll just be energetic and smiling, and you'll make me smile as well and not stressed out.

And uh, it was when we were at Foxwood's doing our event a few weeks ago, and we were in the club and you know, we're not you know, big club people, and Dean and I were just trying to have fun and we were like fist pumping and chanting, help I suck at dating, Help I suck at dating night. It was awesome. And so it's like, this is a no brainer. I wanting to be a part of my grooms and party. Yeah. I was flattered when you asked. Actually was a little bummed to hear that both Nick

container are going to be there as well. Obviously I get it, like you and Tainner are best friends from obviously way way back. Yeah, but I was like, okay, cool, I'm gonna be the only guy from the Bachelor that's gonna be up there. Of course Nicks in there too. Obviously Nick and I have grown very close and I lived with him for a little while, and uh, Nick was you know another guy that have been on a couple of seasons Bachelor with them, we've just formed a

really strong friendship off the show as well. Um. But but well, well we'll see about Tanner. Obviously, Tanner is you know, he's like an honorary member of the Bachelor party, but he's also uh, you know, marrying Ashley and I he's our officiant. Um. But you know, Jade is pregnant and she's due right around our wedding, So I hope they're able to come. I hope both Tanner and Jade are able to come because they're uh two of my closest friends and obviously Ashley's as well, So it would

be a bummer if they can't. But but we'll see. Um. But yeah, from Bachelor, it's you three that are part of the party and then some other guys. Actually, you know, it was funny. Dean Tory texted me a couple of days ago. Did she ever play a game with you? Apparently she wanted to play a game of to see if you could name any of the grundsman not named Nick or Tanner. Um, your dad, your father's name is phil ah so close Bill? Four letters, four letters and you I mean you had the peak sounds like an

f It was pretty close. He's your best man, right, yeah, yeah, my dad is my best man. So um, I asked him way back at Christmas. Uh, but that was really nice moment. So so we're excited. We're doing we and planning and it's kind of all coming together, which is really nuts. And it's even crazy you think that it's all within the next you know, four months, ish Um, it's flying by. It's exciting. Well yeah, and then a bunch of other gimpsmen are going to be friends from

Rhode Island. Yeah, there's one of my buddies. He lives up in Vancouver, but I was I kind of grew up with him in Rhode Island and then he moved over to Vancouver. He lives there now with his his fiance. And then obviously you guys live in l A. But then pretty much everybody else lives in Rhode Island. That's a cool part. That's that's I'm lucky to be being married over in Rhode Island because a lot of my friends and family are there. And then Ashley's family is

mostly either in Jersey or in Northern Virginia. So everybody's kind of up there except for you know, Bachelor Core obviously, producers and casts. So yeah, all right, we'll be fun. I'm excited. I'm excited to Let's jump into a phone call with Ken Page, who is the author and host of a podcast, Deeper Dating. But before we do that, we are going to tell you guys a little bit about Hers. So, ladies, I'm sure you could relate to this.

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host of the Deeper Dating podcast. He's also the author of the best selling book Deeper Dating, How to Drop the Games of Seduction and Discover the Power of Intimacy. Ken are you there? I am very here, Hey, Ken, How are you. I'm good, I'm good, glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me, Thank you for having well, thank you for being here. You are on the line with the help I second dating crew Dean and Vanessa. Hey, can watch you tell us who you are? Give a

little background to the listeners. Sure, sure, so um. I am I guess, first and foremost, someone who was chronically single for decades and I'm a psychotherapist and um kind of at the same time as I was struggling with my own search for love, I had so many clients that were as well. So I tried to kind of really learn what why I chucked at dating And I really really sucked at dating. I sucked at it so badly that I actually started a support group for chronically

single psychotherapists and really helpful. Yeah. Yeah, because we need it. We to go therapist, we need that help. Um. But so so I had to do a lot of work and a lot of work learning and I kind of chronicled what I learned as I learned it, and that led to my book, Deeper Dating. I was still single. Um that led in the process to me adopting a child as a single dad. Yes, yes, then, um, our son is now about to graduate high school. And that has been an amazing you know, I said yes to

love and that was what came first. It wasn't a partner, and then through all of that I met my husband. Meanwhile, I was teaching, you know, I was this like therapist teaching about finding love even though I wasn't in a relationship. But I knew what I was learning work, and I thought all the way through and uh wrote that book, and um, you know, teach classes, teach intensive lecture all over the place right for psychology today and most recently

started the Deeper Dating podcast. Right, I get to kind of talk about what I'm learning and and and like each one of you. I'm endlessly fascinated in what it means to date well and to find love because it's kind of like it's a miracle, but it's a miracle that you can earn. So that's my story. Well, Ken, I think you're so incredibly insightful, and there's so many things that you write and you talk about that resonates with me and I'm sure resonates with a lot of

our listeners. And one thing that you talk about is attractions of deprivation and attractions of inspiration. And before I butcher what this means, um, can you give us uh an example what each of those mean? Yeah? Absolutely so, So here's what I say. I say that, like, in the simplest term, every one of us has two kind of circuitaries of attraction and we all have them both.

And a circuitry of attraction of death of deprivation is when you're attracted to someone because you're trying to get them to love you, or you're trying to get them to treat you right, and they almost love you, or they almost treat you right, or they almost can commit, but they can't. They ultimately can't. And that's a real attraction because you feel like if I can finally get this person, then that means I'm okay, and that that means I can find love. And you know, so many

of us have lost years in that process. And it's a real circuitry and it feels like love because it's like almost love. And then the other circuitry, which is a different one that most of us don't even know. There's some people that really know how to find love, and they do it easily and they do it well.

But for the rest of us, we need to learn about this other circuitry, and it's what I call circuitry of attractions, of inspiration, and that is when you fall in love with somebody because of their goodness and their decency and the fact that their love for you is solid, and it might not always look as sexy at first, and it might even scare you or freak you out a little bit that this person is so available, like

what is wrong with them? But those qualities where they inspire you, by how they treat you, by how they act in the world, by the kind of person they are, that's happiness. That's like where you that's the only place you want to really look for love, and you can cultivate that circuitry, and when you do, your dating life changes top to bottom. Actually, um, the Operah people exerted that section of my book, which which attractions lead to

love and which pain? So what would what kind of advice would you give to people who are listening who gets stuck and can't break free from being stuck with the almost person, the person that is giving them love but not the kind of love that they need or all the love that they deserve. Yeah, well, I want to say, first of all, it is the hardest thing in the world. It's just the hardest thing in the world. And you are going to be if you're stuck in that.

You have to assume that you're a little bit during the being stuck in it, You're gonna be a little bit nuts. You are not going to have clear vision.

You're gonna need to rely on friends that remind you that it's not about what's wrong with you that you have to fix, and that when you go on endlessly and endlessly about what this person did wrong, that your friends is yeah, this really happened, And you know, we need the help of our friends, We need the help of therapists, we need the help of our intuition, because you know, in those relationships, your gut is always saying

like right, no, no, no, this isn't really working. I don't feel good, I don't feel safe, I don't trust this person. So it's hard, it's really hard. Like the image that I have of this is like like a little kid who's holding a piece of broken glass in her hand and it's really pretty and it's really colorful, but it's cutting the inside of her hand, but she's not going to let it go for anything. And that's kind of my image of what it's like, having been

in a lot of those relationships myself in the past. Ken, what do you think about the three date rule. We've talked about that on the podcast before, where most of the times when you're going on dates you should go on three dates with the same person before you really make a judgment on that. What are your thoughts on

you know, I think that's a good rule. However, I think if the person is nasty, don't go on three dates of course will continue Yeah yeah, yeah, okay, so assuming none of that stuff, none of that really creepy stuff.

I think the three date rule is a really nice one, Like, like I want was dating somebody, and um, I had a mentor who really was helpful to me, and this this guy that I was dating because for me, it was a guy UM was he was nice, but I wasn't really that interested, and um, I didn't know if I should keep dating him. And my mentor said to me, keep dating him because in a little bit of time he's either going to get more beautiful to you or and either way you'll know. So I think it's a

great rule. My friend actually has a rule. Um and if she answers yes, yes, no at the end of this, at the end of a date, then she'll go on on a second day with them. And so the questions are, did I have fun? If that's a yes, then that's great. Did he make me feel good? If that's a yes, that's great. Did he make me feel bad? And if

that's a note, that's also great. So if she answers yes, yes no to those three questions, she gives the guy second chance, even if she's like, I'm not sure if I'm like super attracted to him, but I want to get to know him and I want to see what if we can have a stronger connection. So that's her little date rule. That's so crazy. I like that too, but it's crazy to think about that. Sometimes you're putting uh, the yes yes no rule for your soul mate. You know,

it is not weird to think about. Say your friend goes on a date with somebody and they do that and then they answer yes, yes, and no. So she's like, all right, I'll go on another date with this person. They go on another day, and then they end up falling in love and getting married. Isn't that crazy to think back upon, like everything that could have fallen through.

I don't know. That just kind of went through my head that like everything that was predicated on her marrying her soul mate was simply a yes, yes, no. I don't love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so crazy. It's like and then if you were like on that street corner right at that time, and you wouldn't have met that person. This is why it's like, I'll tell you

what I see in my work. What I see is that when people make certain specific changes, the people they meet change, like the field somehow changes and then which is amazing right there, But then kind of like I don't know if any of you have experienced that, you kind of like sometimes get messages from the inside and lad methods might be like, yeah, you find that too, mm hmm. Total instinct yep, yep, yep. Have any of you had got instincts that like really kind of change

your future so strong? Yes, I think, I, well, this is my I love that this is like a lead into a question that I had for you. I feel like we're at an age where we're the most intelligent we've ever been, but also the most troubled UM And I think it's a lot of noise that's around us, a lot of social media comparison compared comparing ourselves um to other people, comparing our relationship to other relationships that

are are out there. And you talk about authenticity and leading with your authenticity, and then you also mentioned intuition today, and I feel like sometimes it's so hard to grasp the definition of those two um like very simple ideas being authentic and following your intuition, But there's so much outside noise that them masks what we should be doing

and what we're already born with. How can we tap into our intuition a little bit more at least trust our gut Because I've been in relationships where I knew from the first day I met someone, I was like, no, this is not gonna work. But I guess my insecurities. I was feeding my insecurities and I was speeding my ego like Okay, well I'm gonna like you said, I want him to like me, so I feel better about myself.

And but my intuition kept pushing me away further and further away from that person um and to to the point where we just became two beings and not we weren't one anymore. So how can we tap in into our how can we tap into our intuition a little bit more? Oh my god, that was that was like great what you said and really really really so true. I mean, that's just it's such a true thing that it's like you just defined a big piece of like

the wiser dating path. And this is what I would say, The real lessens of dating are the lessons of intimacy, and the lessons of intimacy are the greatest lessons of your life. So this was one of them. You know, how do you like kind of like calm down and tune into what you really feel instead of getting so like bewildered by all the noise or seduced by all these other things you're being told. And I have a lot to say. I have a lot to say about that.

But like the two things I want to say in particular, and one is that you need to listen for those moments of intuition. That's like a really big deal. And you want to try to not think you can outsmart your intuition, because every time we think we were going to outsmarter intuition, like I know better, it usually bites it in the butt. So yeah, yeah, So so I think those moments of intuition are like such a big deal.

And you know, in my work with people, I have such a using stories about like people getting woken up in the middle of the night with an insight about what they have to do or they don't have to do, or finally getting hit with something, or just getting that good feeling of like, oh, this person can be like home for me, like I could see that, you know that that really strong feelings. So one thing we have to do is really learned to listen to those kind

of whispers of intuition. And any other thing is I want to I would love to share the greatest and it's really easy, it's really quick, but it is the number one greatest practice that I know for listening to your intuition and following it and having that change your life. So can I show can I teach it to you all? Oh yeah, we're all yours? Oh good good? Okay. So so then I'm going to ask everyone who's listening, and I'm going to ask each of you two, um to

give this a shot. Okay, So just close your eyes for a sect and it's gonna be really quick, but it's it's pretty wonderful. Close your eyes unless you're driving, um, and uh, just kind of think of the you that you are when you're really freely loving. It could be like you freely loving your pet or a family member or a kid or you know, also a romantic love like who you become when you're really that kind of like free and go fee and like just just open

version of you. So just think about that. You just picture like how that feels and how you are, and then you have to get it perfectly just as a general idea. And then like remember a time that you felt really comfortable in your own skin, like really great in your own skin, just like so good with yourself and just kind of remember that, hold that memory. And

one more question. I think about a time that, like you really felt loved by somebody, And I don't mean somebody that like later down the road betrayed you or let you down, someone who like to this day you say that was like a good person. But remember what it feels like, what it has felt like to be really just loved, and hold all those feelings together, and now imagine you that lives that way. It's like the

you you're meant to be. It's like the you on the other side of all your inner glass feelings, like a wise wise version of like the you that you are born to be. And just picture that you and now become that you. Just it's an imagination exercise. You don't have to earn it. Just like imagine you are in that you, which isn't that hard in a way because it's you. So just imagine now you're in the skin of that you, like that you that you know

you are and you're born to be. And imagine looking at the you of today who's struggling and asking these questions about love. What do you most want from this fantastic place? What do you most want to impart to the you of today, Like, what's the message that comes from you from this place, comes from the inside of you that you want to say to the you of today. Just take a minute to think about what that is. Okay, did you guys get something? Yeah, I think we've got

something out of it. I did. I was very reflective a message. Yeah. Well, I hope our listeners, whoever is listening, can do the same exact practice, except while you're driving, like you said, Ken said, So if you guys are listening at home, definitely close your eyes and listen to Cannon and try to do those practices just for a minute or so. Soothing. Oh thanks, thanks. You have a meditation teacher, so so my wouldn't say so when I'm

yelling him to do his homework. Apart from that, but but so, yeah, so if you do that process, whatever you got, I just want to tell you, it's probably smarter than anything any therapists could tell you and make that Yeah. If you know, I'm a shrink and I do this process with people with my clients all the time, and the stuff they come up with again and again, I think, wow, that is better than what I would have said, and I'm a pretty good therapist. So great exercised.

If you do it every day for a minute or two, you're gonna become that person much more quickly, and you're gonna make choices in love. Like when you're at a kind of choice point in your dating life and you do that exercise, you're almost always going to get guidance and it's never going to be critical, but it's going to be very real and if you follow it, you're probably going to speed to your path to finding your relationship by right there. Well that's incredible. Well, Ken, thank

you so much for coming on. We really appreciate it. Um, you've definitely dropped some knowledge on all of us and everybody listening to this. You guys can get Ken's book Deeper Dating, How to Drop the Games of Deduction and Discover the Power of Intimacy and popular Psychology today that is available everywhere books are sold. You can also listen to Deeper Dating podcast everywhere podcast uh you know iTunes all that good stuff. Um. Can do you have any

social media you want to plug? Oh? Sure? So Twitter is Ken Paige lcs W and uh same for Facebook. Alright, perfect Ken, everybody go follow him, and thank you once again for coming on Ken Paige. We really appreciate it. Thanks, thank you. You know it's really cool about Ken. He was an OPRAH magazine. How badass? Is that? Very badass? Yeah? Apparently? Thanks Dean. How are you that contribution there? Sorry? Sorry

for being silent during the whole conversation. I feel like you guys were carrying it well enough, so I didn't have this one that you need is the most help? Yeah, thanks Mark, I really appreciate that. I think that's such an overrated statement. Dean, you do not need help. I don't really are It's it's okay, I wrote Dean, So it was Dean's birthday yesterday and paying out for a group chat because I know I wouldn't have been notified because I'm not really ever on Instagram unless I have

to post something for work. So Dean that message, I don't think. I don't feel like you actually internalize it the way I wanted you to. Do you want to read it for the listeners? Yes? Absolutely. First of all, we all know how many people love Dean and how many people want to be dating him, and we all know how much he loves to self deprecate and make fun of himself. So I said, my love, exclamation point, exclamation point, I'm so sorry. I didn't know it was

your birthday today. I hope you had the most magical day because you are magical. Thank you for being in my life and for being my friend. I hope this year brings you inside on all the impact you have made in people's lives and shows you true, how truly specially you are. There was a typeever, that's why this is your year. I can't wait too. I can't wait

to see you continue to thrive. There are so many type of message I can't even but basically I wanted Dean to I want Dean to take this year kind of like a sabbatical on himself and take this year to really like you travel so much and you do so many things that can be so insightful on all the positive qualities that you have and really own them and really believe that you are that person that I see that you are, And that's what I hope this

year brings you. Thanks me, but you said that you don't think that I gave you the response that you were hoping for yesterday respond with it was like three words, thanks, I said thanks to the heart emoji. Heart emoji, that's very cute. I don't know. I have difficult anytime somebody like like gives me a whole paragraph about how great I am. I've a very difficult time like responding to anything like that the same way I was because I'm like you at the time, and I was like, I

couldn't really come back with a long heartfelt response. But I do appreciate it, and I didn't internalize it. And Vanessa, thank you for the birthday wish. Obviously, it doesn't matter what time I got it. It's the thought that counts. And you know I love you. That's true. I'm listen, guys,

I was really bad at receiving compliments. Um, even when I go out for dinner and I know if someone wants to be paying for me and they bring out their wallet, I used to fight them, literally jump on them, put their wallet back in their purse, and I'm like, no, learn how to accept good things that come your way. So if ever someone wants to pay for dinner, I say thank you. I'm not going to fight it. If someone says something nice about me, I'm like, thank you,

and I'm going to actually internalize it and believe it. Yeah, that's what I learned how to do. I agree. I used to like any time I used to get a compliment, I'd always fight it and be like, oh no, like if somebody came up and said, hey, you have a great job. No, it's just it's fine, it's really not that good, and then it would create this awkwardness in the air. And now I've realized just to say thank you, like, hey, you know you have patchy facial hair. Well, thank you,

thank you very much. I appreciate it. It's very nice of you to say. It's just I think that by agree by thanking them so abruptly like that, you're like agreeing with them almost, you know, And who gives a yeah. I have a list of things that I love about myself, and the name one of them. You should go around the room and each say something you love about yourself. Okay. Um. I love my height because I feel like it's a good five and a half is a good height to

like date. Some of us like a little bit taller, so everyone's always naturally going to be kind of taller than you. I love my teeth, I love my smile, I love my positive energy. I love the length of my hair. I love um my sties that I had on my freaking eyes for two weeks getting I don't know is happening. For a while, they were a part because I've learned how to love, because we live in a world where we want the Kardashian body, the small ways, the big hips, that everything has to be perfect and

life is not perfect. Like I have Selly light on my ass, and I love the Celly light on my ass because that means I have a big for the record, I know that girls idolize the Kardashian body, but I don't think I know a single guy that's like, Wow, Kim Kay has really got it going on. I don't know a single I don't know the sing guy personally that looks at kim Kay's body and like, that's the body that I want my girlfriend to have. No guys like, damn,

that's good looking. But Carl's idolizer obviously, because Kim Kay is, if is the most if not the most is one of the most if not the most famous person in the world, mostly because girls idolize her for the way that she looks when like I just said, guys not a single guy I know thinks she's attractive. Dean, who do you think the most attractive Kardashian is or Jenner? You know what I mean? Um? Oh, well, Kendall is obviously super hot. All right. Besides Kendall, what's what's her name?

Not not Chloe Courtney? I think is of the Kardashians, it needs to natural looking. What do you think too? Yeah? I would say the same too. Is it funny? I feel like any model? Right? Well? Kylie is the model. Model is a very good looking woman. Yeah, she's the model. I mean, they're all models, aren't they. Kind I guess

the point they're trying to actually a runway model. The point I'm trying to make is girls idolized Kim Kay for the though that she looks, but guys at the same time don't really look up to her as like beautiful I mean beautiful shirt, but like not like not

not just Kim Kay anyone really. And I like, I was sick on my on my couch last week and I posted about it, and I went on Instagram and I was looking flipping through everyone's like pages, and I'm like, oh my god, this person is traveling to that place this person has that job, this person looks like this, this person is working out five times a week and eating super healthy, and I'm like, I'm not doing any

of those things. And then I started comparing myself, and I'm like, why am I comparing myself when I have so many amazing things to be grateful for, and the most important one of them all my health, minus dies mine this sis. Yeah, guys, it was so. It was so we went to NAPA and I'm so sorry, Jared. We're supposi recorded podcast, but our podcast they get pushed to later and end up getting no And I remember saying like, my body is not gonna be able to

handle it. And of course with my travel, my luck with traveling. My flight the next day was canceled. Yeah, that sucked. I remember that that you texted because you had a straight shot, didn't you, from San franc to Montreal and then it got canceled and then you had a layover after you were sick. Yeah, bad day, bad couple of days for you. Sorry about that. It was a bad. Yeah, it was a bad couple of days. But um, I don't know, But I don't know who

you piste off or what you did wrong. In your life, but you literally have the worst travel luck. I really do, and I usually always travel for work. It's not like as if I'm traveling to go have fun, so it's like it's not an obligation, but I'm doing it because it's for work and I'm still getting shot in the foot. Yeah, Vanessa, but you're a very optimistic person. I feel like sometimes when you put out in the air, you'll you get back.

So maybe instead of you saying you're a crappy traveler that you know, you can say, Hey, I've had a bad run of luck, but now things are going to turn and my traveling stories are going to get better and maybe they'll get better vacation to kind of like all balance it out. Well, Okay, back to you, sure, let's put it up back on me. What do you want? What do you want this year to bring? Um? Parodi

shut up, Jared. Of course I was gonna say that, Dean, do you think, Jared I'm answering even ask this question? Come on, But I want to one thing that sorry answered the question because my question is very similar to Vanessa's. I just kind of wanted to pitt back off of pity, back off it piggy off it. Um, I think that if the if the year ahead holds very similar to what the year behind held, I would be pretty happy in terms of traveling and meeting new people. And that's

basically what it's already off to start. It's actually after dinner last night, I went rock climbing because I'm going on this trip next week, um and I want to get like at least semi fit before going. And I was sitting in the parking lot, and I know how last week I think we discussed how I was flying to Marrakesh for uh May second like next week beginning of May whatever it was, Um, I decided instead of

going to Marrakesh, I'm gonna go to China. And so I was sitting in the parking lot of the rock climbing gym that I was about to go climbing in, and um, I booked a plane ticket to China instead of Marrakesh. So, UM, I just I hope that that's that's kind of a continued process. And then I think, uh, I think I mentioned this last week as well too, as once I go to Colorado this week, I hope

on driving a van back to Los Angeles. I've got a couple of living up that I'm gonna look at and so hopefully that will be a big central point of the next year of my life is being able to be mobile and drive my van around to wherever I want, while also being able to catch flights to other countries and see things that I've always wanted to see as well. Um, so that's what the year ahead holds.

I know that obviously doesn't really evolve much around my romantic life, and I think that for this uh phase of my life, romance is really gonna have to take a back seat to self exploration and discovery. And I'm perfectly fine with that, and actually I thinking about it even a little bit more yesterday. Um Like, everyone kind of aspires to be in a relationship, right, Like if you're single time, you're always like okay, like how could I get into a relationship? How can I find a

girlfriend or boyfriend? But I'm just so much better as a single person, Like I'm so much better through and through single than I am in a relationship. I had that mentality too. I remember when I would jump into relationships, I would cry to my system, be like I hate who I become when I'm in a relationship, I become like more insecure, and I become clingy to the person, and my dreams and the aspirations that I have kind of take a back seat. And I love who I

am when I'm single. But I think with this relationship now, at least I'm learning how to mesh my single mentality of the things that I want to achieve in life into my relationship. Um, because I hated who I became in a relationship, I I always p prioritize the other person, and I uh remember dating someone who kind of told me like, well, you're are not allowed doing this anymore, and I kind of had to quit this job that I had. I didn't have to I didn't have to storry.

I allowed myself to let him take control of my work life, right, And then you just start worrying about someone else reacting to the things that you're doing other than just you because someone else is connected. So it's like, if I want to live in a van for a year, I have to worry about someone else worrying about me living in a van for a year, you know. But if I'm single, I don't have to worry about buying a plane ticket to China for two weeks if I just want to go and do it, you know what

I mean. Yeah, But that's why kind of been like the positive and negatives of being in a relationship and being single for however long. Like, yes, when you're in a relationship, you can't do everything you want. You have to compromise. But then again, when you're single, you get so lonely because you just long for that not so much just a relationship, but kind of being a part of a team. Yeah. I mean, I'm gonna say you

said there are positives and negatives. I don't really look at it with having any negatives single, Yeah, not a single one. You don't like the like the feeling of having someone always be buy your side. That's what I love most about being a relationship with Ashley is that it's no longer just about me. It's like I kind of have somebody that I'm going through life with because life can be really shitty sometimes and it's really nice to have that comfort of like, hey, you're gonna be

right there with me whenever bad times occur. Yes, I don't know. And you look like you have you see it seems like you have a lot of supportive friends. I have a lot of supportive friends obviously for all of us too, we have the like our internet quote unquote friends, you know, like there's never really also distinguished though being in a relationship with somebody and being friends with someone though, Like I would never have said the same thing about going through life with Ashley when we

were just friends. Yeah. Now I can understand where you're coming from too. I think it's I don't really want a conventional life, and so it's for me to uh, I think it's harder to find someone that's willing to I guess, except those parts of me like they wanted to live in a van or the you know, not showering every day for everyone. So I know so many people who live There's a couple who now they just

got pregnant and they live in a van. They're like, oh, we're gonna have to get a bigger van because now we're having a baby. So I'm just, yeah, that's great. I love that. Does that person have a sister or a niece or well, she does live in l A so I can always reach out to her. Actually, you know who knows her as our dear friend Nick Bayle. Yeah, yeah, speaking. Hold on, I just got it. Uh, I didn't check out. I've been checking my phone while we were like talking

right now, but I just got a link. Two. Um, should I not talk about this? Well, you might as well drop it now. It's so there. There's a I'm assuming that you're alluding to the article about Nick making out with a guy, right. I didn't read about it. I just saw the title. But you know how titles are so misleading. That he was playing on a TV

show or something. That's exactly what it was. He was playing a part that required where he had a kissing scene with a guy, and he talks about it with the call Your Daddy Girls, which is the podcast on Barcelo Sports. Um. And so when I saw that too, I felt bad because it is a very misleading. Wait a second, let's talk about this year. Have you ever kissed a guy before? I have not, deus, Have you

ever kissed a girl? Absolutely? Yeah, I've kissed guys before, Like I mean no, but I've kissed frequently pecks throughout the night. Nick was actually one of them. I kissed Nick and I heard radio Music Awards in Las Vegas like nineteen times one night while we were friends. Yeah, you cheated on me. I kissed Alex Bordakov like the Thirty Times Friday night at Coachella this past weekend. Well, this was a little bit different because he was playing

for a role. I think he might have been playing a game and I'm not sure, but it was like a makeout session. It wasn't a peck or anything like that. So I mean the question is, have you ever made out with a guy? I guess there's never any tongue. I thought I can remember at least you know a few beers in who knows, So, Jared, you've never kissed a guy before? Huh? I have not, come on, I'm trying to think if there's I'm sure there's been a friend peck, like I'm sure you've probably packed me on

the lips before, and I'm just not remembering. Would you kiss Tom Brady? There you go? No, God Mark, don't ask me that on the air. Well, I know I wouldn't. I'd grab a beer with Tom Brady. And I've been asked this too about like heroes of mine, and there's no chance I would do that. I want to just be friends, like I want to talk about his six Super Bowl championships. You know, that's what I want. I

mean Tom Brady kisses his kids on the lips. Well, Honestly, when Mark asked me, that was the first thing that went through my mind was that, Like, I think it's you know, to each their own. Because I've seen Tom Brady kiss you know, his his his dad and and and his son on his lips. So is will now the coach. The coach kissed somebody else on the lips. I saw that picture too with Belichick was kissing somebody I don't remember who was there, you know, huh didn't

he kiss kraft Win? It was crazy? Was that You're just passionate? That's fine? How the topic? Yeah, I mean you show love in different ways, right, So if Brady was like we got together, He's like, hey, bro, I love you, and was like, hey, I'm gonna pick your lips, I'm not gonna say. No, peck is different than than tonsil hockey. Yeah, I agree. I think no questions that you'd make out with him. Yeah, all of the Avengers

as well. I don't find Janning Tatum that cute. Wow, it's also his personality that really just does it for me. Step up again and tell different. I mean, I do love I do love his personality, but I'm like, okay, yeah, um, I'm sorry to interrupt, but we do need to take a break. Okay, we need to get some emails. Um. Also, I wanted to thank Dean for that beautiful, heartfelt text response I got from you last night. It was very sweet and very kind, and I really you're going to appreciate.

You're lucky. I'm not in studio. Okay, so I got obviously got a lot of birthday sex, very nice. Depending on where I was and what I was doing at the time it was touched. There was deeper responses sometimes, Mark, can you read your Can you read your text message? Or can you forward it to me? I could only do it with Dean's permission. You can read it. That's fine,

all right. I sent Dean. This is what I sent Dean because it was his birthday yesterday and I'm a big fan of Dean, and I just said happy birthday, deaners proud to call you my friend, short and sweet. He wrote back, Thanks, Mark Wong. That's a long story, but I'm super lucky to get to work with someone of your caliber, and it is an honor to be your friend as well, and then the double high five hands. Isn't it nice? Not together apart, hands apart. I sent

Dean a text too, shall we? I said, all caps, happy birthday, five exclamation points, horn cake present balloon emoji he sent. He sent back thanks emoji of a little man holding his palms to the camera. Is that what that is? It really depends on where I was during the day. So when eastern text of me was three fifty five pm, I was barring a new set of golf clubs, and so I was I was preoccupied to that. I wasn't expecting her on at all. I was something

Mark texted me. I think I was between buying clubs and going to dinner so they could put a little bit more effort into it. And that's a texted me. I was at lunch with my manager something like that. I'm just saying, Mark, what do you want to talk about? Take a break, We'll come back al right, guys, I got something to talk about. I want to talk about sleep number. You've heard me talk about this mattress before. Now. Ashley and I we kind of disagree on the firmness

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you sleep with your dog at the bed dean? If I did, I thought you had uh idea, But she doesn't live with me. What's your dog's name? Nala? Nala? Oh, I'm so sorry because knowledge you know, she's a big girl. So if she sleeps on one side and likes to bet a little bit firmer, you know, you guys might disagree about that. She is big and she is fat, that's the truth. Oh, she's just got curves. Yeah, I heard love. They have bras and half sizes for your boobies. They do. And you know when you go to the

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sizes and they're so comfortable. Voice of an Angel. So a little bit of an interesting situation because Jared's wedding obviously is coming up, and Vanessa is joking around about maybe not being on the guest list, and she has step away gather her thoughts. But we're going to get them both back on the phone and discuss the situation. Hi, Vanessa, are you doing Vanessa? I'm just sad. No, I just I don't want like I texted you. I just don't want you to think that I was mad, like I

get I totally get it. I just Vannessa. You have nothing to apologize for or or or trying to explain. I totally understand. I wanted to talk to you off air about it, um, you know, because it's just obviously been on my mind for quite some time as well, and trying to handle the situation as best as possible, um for everybody involved. But if I'm being honest, most importantly, um, both Ashley and I because we just want to, you know, uh, make everybody happy, but also make sure that you know

that day is most importantly about us. UM. So I think for a while it's just been weighing on me and trying to figure out the right words to say things. Um, but I don't know, but we we we can. I would love to talk more about it in depth, just maybe not here. That's cool. Well, I mean I assume, I assume, I mean, I understand, and I guess it's I don't want to make an ass out of myself by making an assumption. But I'm assuming it's because of

a particular person and I and I get that. Um, And like I said, I'm not I'm not mad, I'm not like, I'm not anything. I think I'm mostly just sad. Well, I would never want to make you sad, Vanissa, obviously, Um, it's not. I mean, it's just sad because um, like I said earlier, it's not like a birthday that happens

once a year. Um. You know, it's like I vouched for you guys, and I know he has to, and I just I don't want this to become I don't want this to become about me, Like, of course, I want you and actually to have the most amazing and spectacular wedding day with zero stress. Um, and that like I want the absolutely amazing wedding day for you guys, and if that means me, um, you know, I don't want to make it think from afar then like that's what it is. But I don't want this to be

about me. I'm just saying, like, of course, like I would have, I would have loved to have witnessed, um, the love that you guys have for each other and and be there to see it official. But um, I guess I don't need to be a part of the wedding day to to see the love that you guys do have for each other. Well, I also don't want to make this um you know. Uh, I appreciate that, and you're wonderful saying that, and uh, I think one

it's so stupid. I really just don't feel comfortable, if I'm being honest, talking or even addressing it on the podcast right now, because it's just okay, we'll talk, we'll talk later, because honestly, I pretty much I wanted to talk to you about it, but we hadn't. We haven't even done the invitations yet. We haven't even sent anything out except for the same of the dates, which does

not go to everybody invited to the wedding. We went to the same the dates to like obviously people were like, say the date, make sure you can come, and then we're going to send out more invitations to figure out exactly who's coming, and so we haven't finalized the guest list.

I haven't even talked to Nick about this. It's not like he is any type of like voice in my ear, so he it's it's it's it's honestly only been weighing on both Ashley and I, and we've been putting it off because it obviously is an uncomfortable conversation to have with everybody involved, and it has been weighing on us, and we've also been distracted by other parts of the wedding,

so we've been able to push it off. And now obviously we're starting getting into the phase of like, okay, we're gonna start doing the invitation send those out within the next month month and a half or so. So we really have to get an idea of who we're inviting and you know, who can't come, just for not only just like people being there, but also for number's sake. Because the venue that we do have it max is

out at a hundred eighty. They said we might be able to squeeze a couple more in there, so we have to really kind of cut down the list, which Ashley and I have both been dreading because we know that there's certain people who might be assuming they're coming, but just because the venue doesn't fit enough people, we can't invite everybody. And so it's certainly been, um a cloud looming over our heads. And I never would want

to make you sad. And I'm not even saying who's coming or who's not coming right now because I just truly don't know. But I also haven't put out in the universe you coming, Vanessa, just because I'm just we're just trying to put all our ducks in order and figure out, um, you know, what's best for everybody involved. Um, and and that's really it. But I certainly don't want this to become a Nick thing. I it's not. I

don't want it to become that. He has never said anything about it throughout this entire podcast, you know, even Dean said off here. It's been kind of crazy that this is the first time it's really ever become awkward. Uh, you know, because we're obviously good friends with Nick, we're

friends with you. It's like, oh, this is. Yeah, now it's kind of coming to a head, um, and so it's a conversation we're all gonna have to have we haven't had yet, and unfortunately kind of like just popped up on the podcast and on the air and here we are. Because I thought, yeah, I thought it was I was making a joke until I realized we did an answer and I was like, oh, I guess it's not a joke. But again, I I don't want to make this. This is not about me, and your wedding

day should never be about other people. Of course, it's about you want to share the love, and you want to make sure that people who are there are you know, the people that you love, and they want to be there to witness the love that you guys have. And so like I said, if that, if this makes most sense to you, I accept that and I'm not again I think I was just like more shocked because I was making a joke out of it, and um, yeah, I guess I guess I was just more shocked. Um.

And I didn't say anything. I wasn't lying. I actually was putting off a lot of my vacation plans and in August because I didn't know what the date was, and I was kind of had a feeling. So I'm like, well, he hasn't really mentioned anything to me, but I know, like other people are talking about it, and I didn't get to save the data or anything. So I'm like, Okay, well, I didn't want to make it awkward. But then I was like, must he must not have my address or something. Um.

But again, like I get it. It's real life, it happens. It's it's a weird world to be a part of. And um, I I just want you and actually to know how much I do vouch for you guys, and how much I do adore you guys as a couple, and I can't wait to see how your level grow. And well, thank you for that, Vanessa, and thank you for being so understanding about everything. But I also want to renterrate. I mean, I didn't say anything because we just truly don't know. I don't want to kind of

like make false promises, um. And so that's why I was silent then, and kind of you know, have been silent up to this point because it's just it's it's one of those things where we've been putting off to figure out you know, the best way to handle the situation. And and I think Ashley and I really need to sit down at some point soon, specifically when we're kind of putting that final guest list together, and be like, Okay, you know, this is what's happening, this is what we're

gonna do, so on and so forth. Um but like you said, it is this weird world that we're a part of that has given us so many wonderful things, uh, that has really enhanced all of our lives. Um. But also if I can give you a little bit of, um, I guess reassurance and letting you know that if not inviting me is going to give you guys more ease on that day than do it like you like do it? Well, well, thank you Vanessa for offering that really, and do you

mean that? I do mean that. I mean I've been part of wedding parties, you know, like a lot of people in my surroundings have been married, and there's so many things after they get married they're like, I wish I didn't do that, or you know, there are so many things or an emphasis that they put. They put so many emphasis on things that minor details that didn't really matter at the end of the day, and so I know how much of a stress at stressful date

it can be. Um, so if that's going to ease the stress, then I I don't know what the word is, like you have my blessing out. Yeah, uh, well, thank you for that. But yet again I'll reiterate, we just we just don't know. I don't think we've we've um, you know, really kind of addressed a bunch of different situations and one being that one. But that's injured. Why don't we wrap this up and button it up and you guys can obviously discuss a little bit off air. Maybe we can circle back around to it at a

later date, but we do have to end the episode. Um. Thank you guys for being vulnerable and talking about this. I know it's not easy, but jarve yes. At the end of the day's all up between all three of us. Uh. Big thank you to our listeners out there for taking the listen this week. Big thank you to Ken Paige for taking the time to speak with us. Be sure to check his book out Deeper Dating and his podcast Deeper Dating as well. UM. Big thank you to us answers.

Big thank you to Mark and Easton. As always, big thank you to me for celebrating my twenty birthday recently. Yes, thank you very much. A big take away from this episode, um, you guys are all great. Thank you again once more of the listeners. Be sure to tune in next week when maybe we will suck a little bit less. Follow help by Suck at Dating with Dean, Vanessa and Jared on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to podcast