Change Junkies

you hi? Guys? I love your top today. Thanks. I know, I just sent you four pictures to help me choose one to post on Instagram. This is the first time I think I've ever seen you on face time where you've actually looked like you were ready to go out somewhere. You know what I mean, because I just I'm just trying to say that. Vanessa always just you're always like sweats, like you just got out of bed. Wait to start

off the podcast. Closet doors always open. I can like see your socks sticking out of your drawers part from my bedroom. So I'm like, well, I'm just going to roll out of bed and put on some lipstick and call it a day. You look great. Thank you. I actually put on so it's been like really really crappy weather in Montreal. So I found this product that makes it's kind of like a self tanner oil on the face. Somebody, That's what I was going to say. You look tan,

you radiant, you're glowing, your hair is straight. Did you darken your hair, No, it's probably greasy. Did you white in your teeth? I I don't know what You're just you're glowing right now, right now. I used to give compliments like that too, but now now I'm engaged, I'm not allowed. It's it's I can't be like Venessa, Wow, you look really good, your radiant, your hair looks good.

People listening. You're always really good at teer leading me though, Do you think that once you get engaged or in a relationship with someone, you're not allowed to compliment the opposite sex quite as much? Yes? I think the level of compliments or how you're interacting definitely changes. Of course, So the message, the message I just sent you before recording this podcast, if I had a girlfriend, do you think that would be inappropriate? We don't need to tell

the audience. Um, we we have a very special episode for the listeners out there. Um, we have Monica Berg coming on. Yeah, we have Monica Burg coming on, UM, and she is going to tell us all about how she became a change junkie and how that can help you and your potential significant other in relationships. UM. We're gonna keep you guys up to date on topical events in our lives as well. We're gonna hopefully discuss and

dissect the conversation from last week a little bit more. UM. In regards to Jared and Ashley Kendall and Joe moving together, I think we can talk about that. I've never personally lived with a girlfriend, so we can we can dive into that a little bit, UM. And what else? What else do we want to talk about? Your sex life? I don't know my sex life is I I feel like Dean always asked the sex questions. So here you go, Dean. I was actually just thinking to day a shower today.

I mean I shower most days. How many times a week do you shower? Like five? It's pretty I actually do. For the record, for the record out there, I started using soap again. I think I've talked about this before. My hair has been spilling delicious and fruity and fresh what I've been using. I told you I stopped using Deodora, and then I started using natural deodoran. My armpits were so itchy. I think it was a charcoal. Yeah, so I had to stop using all natural Deodora and now

I'm back on the interesting. That's exactly what people want to hear about. But no, I was thinking today, and this is obviously gonna be way too much information, but I was thinking about my sex life or lack thereof, and I was like, wow, I haven't man escaped in a long time. Really, Yeah, I think I was like preparing to jump in the shower and I was looking down and I was like, wow, that is getting messy down.

This is way too well for my Like personally, I don't like it when it's super shaved and click too clean. I mean, I never do like a straight razor to get it all way down, like an electric razor to get it nice and trimmed and I'll put together. Yeah, never a straight razor down there. But I was like I was looking on there today. I was just admiring it, you know. Yeah, you never use an electric razor in

your face and that area as well. Absolutely, Man out there, just make sure you have two electric Do you use use two razors? I use like a wall electric razor? Yeah, okay, and it has like and I'm gonna say it and I'm going to get a lot of heat for this. But I use the same razor for my face. Oh good god, man, I did too, You do, I do. I just started doing that the face and one or the same type of razor, the exact same one. Why any reason you started doing it? Or just out of convenience?

I was shaving my face. I've never done that down there before ever. Thirty one Okay, you're third year selling me. In thirty one years of life. Thirty one years of life, you never took an electric razor down that. You are Jason Biggs from American Pie. You're messing with us right now. I'm not messing you must, I swear to God. I mean,

why why trim a garden that nobody's visiting? Was my attitude before I'm married now, But in the past, before I was married, it wasn't it wasn't an issue, but that or shaving my face, and I thought, quite sad. I'm sorry, Wait what you know what? Why not. Let's live a little. I will say the one nice the one nice thing from a man's perspective. Again, we're gonna get into too much information here. The nice thing about trimming it and keeping it put together down there is

it add some size, at least to the eyes. It makes it look bigger, at least to my eyes when I'm looking down. Yeah, there's a there's a significant difference. You maybe walk around at their shoulders back a little bit more of your chest puffed out, feeling more confident. Honest, it's the truth. I'm gonna go on. Uh, I'm going hiking actually next week. And I was like, well, you better trim before I go hiking because it's gonna make me feel lighter and looser and all that kind of stuff.

So so I'm not sure how to segue into our next topic, but here we go. We have Monica Berg who's on the line. But before we get to her, Vanessa, how about women's shoes. Oh yeah, So I was just at I don't know if you saw on Instagram at the CIRCUSLI show when I showed up in heels, but I knew by dand of the night I was going to be really uncomfortable. So I brought my rath these shoes with me and I don't if you heard about it this company, but they make sty list shoes for

women and girls out of recycled plastic water bottles. That's right. They're really really comfortable, and their machine washable and they're easy to put in your purse. Rathi's has quickly grown to a most love gotta have them brand. It's no surprise they have over one thousand nearly perfect reviews. They're super stylish, they're sustainable, comfortable, washable, all in one pair of shoes. They're the perfect flats for life on the go.

And if you're on the go, like myself, I always put a pair of Rothy shoes either in my car or in my purse. Rath these are the everyday flats for life on the go with their stylish and versatile and they go. They literally go with everything that you wear, from yoga pants to dresses and skirts. I was wearing this really cute um romper with uh like like leaves on it or whatever, Like, I had a really cute print, so it went. It literally went with everything that I wore.

Roth These comes in a wide range of colors and patterns, and they're available in four different silhouettes. Plus they're constantly launching new styles, so you're garan tea to find a pair or three that you'll love. It will blow your mind that they're made from recycled water bottles. It's crazy plastic water bottles, that's what the shoes are made of. In fact, Rath These has diverted over twenty five million

water bottles from landfills. So when you buy your shoes, you know that you're gonna look stylish and you're doing a good thing for the world. So it's it's it's a perfect match. They're fully machine washable. Rath These are manufactured in a zero waste factory and they shipped directly in the shoebox, no unnecessary packaging. These are feel good

flats in more than just one. Mother's Day is around the corner, so you know, if you need, if you need an idea to buy your mom, you can always buy her a pair of Rath The's a pair or two just by I just actually bought my mom a pair. Um, she saw my pair of shoes when I was at the Circustillation show and they're like She's like I gotta have. She tried mine on and she's like, they're super comfortable, so I got her pair. Check out all the amazing

styles available right now. I row these dot com slash Dean. Go to rath these dot com slash Dean to get your favorite flats. They're comfortable, their stylish and sustainable. These are the shoes you've been waiting for. Head to roth these dot com slash d e a n today. Dean. Dean gets the code for women's shoes everything. I don't know what else I have the code for newm And why I have the code is because I know you guys don't need to stick to a weight loss plan

because you're already in impeccable shape. But I do, and it can be very very hard, especially when you don't know how to handle the obstacles and thoughts that hold you back from making progress like me. So let me tell you about NEM and how they can help you live a healthier lifestyle like they've already helped me. We're all Stopford time, but now them just asks for ten

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They have easy thirty second online evaluation which shows you how much weight you can lose and keep off if you keep up with it um. I was at Coachell a couple of weeks ago and I have been using NEM since then to help me lose a little bit of weight. I think I've discussed this in the past. I've been bulking up a little bit. Uh not because I want to, but NOUM has been helping me their designed for results. It's out with the old habits in with the new. And you can sign up for your

free trial today at noon dot com slash Dean. That's n O O M dot com slash d e a n. You literally have nothing to lose except for all your weight. Visit noon dot com slash dean to start your free trial today again one last time. Noon dot com slash Dean start losing weight for good. When I put on like ten pounds after Ashley and I got engaged, and like we're just eating pizza every day. I really wish

I described my weight gain just like you did. I've been bulking up over the past couple of months, not intentionally, just literally. I got up to a hundred and ninety nine pounds. I've never hit two hundred in my life. I've all, you still look good, but I appreciate it. I'm putting a lot of it on my neck area. I see myself in pictures and I'm like, you've never hit two h pounds. You're six. I've always been around. It's just like, I don't know it's bad. So I'm

not drinking alcohol anymore. I'm I'm sticking with New Mo. Was the last time you had a alcoholic? I mean a couple of days ago. But like, I'm not drinking alcohol anymore. I'm not getting drunk anymore. I should say I haven't been drunk in like three since Coachella. Actually, so like three weeks. Hold Monica, Well, we have Monica Berg on the line as she has a brand new book out. It is called Fear Is Not an Option and is available everywhere book are sold. Monica, are you

on the line, Hi there? How are you? I'm doing well, Monica? Were you just hearing our latest conversation? Thank god? Just about men's grooming and we don't need to. I think we actually should have a dedicated episodes that one day all about men's grooming, just grooming in rooming in general. Yeah, like shaving my legs and shaving my arm past, Like, is it a necessity, No, but it's a it's an

expectation that women have to do. Actually, just got that laser done so she doesn't have to shave for like three months. Apparently I never really realized forever. All right, well, let's get back to it anyway, Monica. I'm so sorry to keep you holding. We can talk about this all day apparently. But Monica, you you describe yourself as a change junkie. Um, and you just wrote a brand new book called Fear Is Not an Option? So tell us where did that title come from? Why did you write

this book? And what is fear to you? Well? I decided to write this book because I counsel a lot of different people and two things come up. For all. It's fear and relationships. So I actually started to write my first book, which is called Rethink Love, and it's the term of a book, it's sixty six thousand, seven hundred words, because you know, people need a lot of guidance when it comes relationship that can bring us the most joy and then also at some point, you know,

see the biggest source of agne and pain. But that book took a really long time, and so I got impatient and I wrote Fear, and I finished that nine months and I published that one first um. The title I came up with because it happened to me one night when I was grapp grappling with spear over just same sixteen years ago, and my mentor and father in law was yelling at me on the other end of the phone when he heard me panicking that fear is

not an option. And when fear is no longer an option, then you have to look for other options that are more viable. So when you remove the thing that scares you the most and you don't give it any energy, then you need to find a solution, and you tell your brains that we need to look for one. And it's an obedient servant um. Well that's all in the book, you want to challenge yourself to think differently, um, and

that's consciousness. Consciousness is everything. So how you perceive life, what your perspective is, dictates how your experiences will be. So if you get a handle on that and you really look, and you're honest with yourself, and you give yourself emotional feza, then you can change the course of your life and everywhere, whether it's fear or you know, and and alphabet ties and relationships. Also because people fear rejection.

If your failure, it just gets in our way and it paralyzes us from living the life we all really want to. Yeah. One of my favorite quotes of all time is actually from Jim Carey. Don't judge me, but I actually really enjoy his perspective in life. He has a very different way of thinking, but he talks about fear and how it's a big player in all of our lives, and he says that what he actively tries to do is he tries to make decisions based out

of love and not fear. And actually he told a story one time about his father which always has kind of stuck with me. He talks about his father could have been a great comedian, but he was scared because he thought that his dreams were out of hand and unreachable, and so he took a safe job. And when Jim Carrey is twelve years old, his father got fired from

that safe job. And that was a very big lesson in Jim Carrey's life because he realized that you can fail at the things that you don't want to do, so you might as well go after the things you love. And it's a very impactful quote I've always thought about in my life because a lot of my life I make decisions based out of fear, and I think it's held me back in a lot of different areas, uh, both career path, relationship wise, uh, my own personal confidence.

And so it's scary, scary, and that's everybody. I mean, that is the majority of how the world be right. And then you know it's you rather the pain of discipline, which is going after what you want and all those things. Doing that it's scary and um sometimes now disappointment or wild, you rather the pain of regret because when you meet that, your options are not there any longer, but much more painful.

It is more painful. But there's something about regret that you can almost cope with because if you never go after the things that you want, you can always have that cavea of Well, I never really tried, Like if I tried, I think I could have done it. And that's not a good way of living. I'm not saying it is, and I think a lot of people think that way because there's a psychological reason why we do that.

When you come with your excuses early on, then you have this armor to protect your ego so that when you fail, you're like, oh, you know, it's self sabotages its greatest. Like let's say you have a big exam or s A T S. I know a lot of people do this and they go out the night before and they get drunk and they have a hangover. So the next morning I didn't do well because I was out late the night before. We just it's a defense

mechanism to protect our ego. But again, if you break it down and you look at it and you challenge your consciousness, then you can really live your authentic lights. I mean, everybody, everybody can have what they want. They just need to get out of their way. And I know it's the hard thing, but it's like the muscle. If you practice it and you start with baby steps, eventually you can achieve it. Monica, do you know who

Jordan Peterson is. He's a he's a clinical psychologist. But I've been listening to a lot of his lectures lately and a lot of this out that you're saying aligns with the stuff that he preaches as well. And it's crazy because it's a lot of stuff that you until you like sit down and really think about it, you don't realize everything that's kind of going on, you know

what I mean. And so I think it's great that what you're doing is you're helping people identify that and then once obviously the first step is always identifying, and then you can kind of work on it from there, well identifying and then followed by immediate action. So and that's the key, right. It can't be something that you just think about because then you replaced talk for action. Often we talk about our dreams, we talk about what we desire, and we feel like we're actually making strikes

because we've spent much time and energy discussing it. We feel like a little bit the sense of reward, you know, in our mind book, I'm doing I'm working towards that you're not actually just talking about it. M Monica asked, you have a really powerful story. I think you're really open about it. Um. You had developed an eating disorder, UM,

and you came out stronger than ever. And recently this weekend, I was at an event and a woman spoke about blimia and how she was battling that for a couple of years and now she's a solid, strong, independent woman. She's a really bright light. And my question, like one thing that stuck was how did you How did someone

get out of that? I think a lot of our listeners because could resonate with stories of people being stuck in a dark hole like I. You know, like this past week I was literally crying every day and I'm like I couldn't find a way to get out of that. So what did you do? Or for people listening, what can they do to get out of that dark hole? But I love that question. For me, it was interacted, but people can find themselves in any kind of situation

where you feel hopeless and sad. I mean, it was really the most isolating that time of my life, and I had a lot of shame about having the disorder and also feeling shame about my life just at the time. U got me into the disorder and the thing that I craved the most at that time because I was so lonely and um, you know, and that thought it consumed you all day long. And it's not really about suit, is about control. I wanted to send some control over my life because I felt out of control. So I

just wanted a relationship. I wanted to be loved because I really didn't love myself enough, right, I mean, a person doesn't starve themselves nearly to death if they practice self love. So I realized that everything that I was looking for and that I was craving and the lack that I felt could never come from an external place. It couldn't come from a person, a job, a different country I would live in, or anything else. That had to start within. And I really started to practice that.

So I started to become more spiritual, become more aware of nature, of purpose, of meaning and um, starting to live my life in that way and connecting to something higher.

And also I took the most important relationship any of us will ever have in life, curiously, and that was the relationship I have with myself, because you live with your body in your skin, if you don't like how you feel or what you do when you look in the mirror, because body, and this is a not just physical right, it's every single thing we feel walking in our skin. And if you don't like who you are at your core, it's like being in a webt bathing

suit with stand inside stuff too all day long. It's like that uncomfortable. So I started to really stop and listen and ask myself real questions. I finally gave myself the permission to want and to have desire, because a

lot of people have the shame of wanting. Also, especially women, were told at an early age that you should seem kind and polite, and there's certain things that women shouldn't do, and you know, all of that nonsense feedback that we're given from society, from family, from environment, from television, and we believe it at some point. So I finally said enough, I'm going to say that this is what I want and it's okay to want. And when I started to

do that, I really became a friend to myself. I started journaling, I started hearing my desires, and slowly, slowly, once I acknowledged them, I was able to start taking action towards creating that for myself. Well that's wonderful. Um, So you and I we talk about practicing self love, and of course in order to love someone else, you need to learn how to love yourself. What kind of advice can you give for people who are in relationships

and want to have a healthier relationship with their partner. Well, I love that too because in my next book, Rethink Love.

It's a three part book and the first is called me, and it's all about the relationship you have with yourself, which is the fundamental step most people miss before the enter relationships, which is why often we attract the wrong kinds of people because we're looking at it from a place of you know, maybe it's just attraction, or maybe it's financial because if you don't really know yourself, you're not going to be able to attract the person that

will meet you on that same level basically spiritually speaking. The second part of the book is going for me to we how do you keep yourself right and not lose in the relationship. The last part is we, and

that's how to navigate through success relationships. So when you are in a relationship with somebody and you want to either hold onto who you are or still discover that it's important to make sure that you cultivate time for yourself to do things that you up and that you're passionate about, and then you bring that together to the relationship and that he does the same. Right that becomes when you start to live somebody else's life or somebody else's I feel that what you should be right and

how that makes them feel. These are all the ways that we kind of go down the wrong path. Yeah, And I feel like when I was in my younger twenties, well, I think throughout my twenties and relationships, I lost who

I was. And I remember telling my friends like, I hate who I become when I'm in a relationship because I just lose a sense of who I am and I just fully immerse myself in my partner's life and lifestyle, and then I lose the things that I'm that I'm passionate about, and then when the relationship would end, I would get back into being who I was again, and I'm like, I need to learn, and I knew that

was one of my biggest mistakes and relationships. I need to learn how to cultivate a healthy relationship with myself and with my partner, and for my partner to be a part of the things that I love to do. I have a question for you. So, obviously communication is a big part of relationships. Do you think that if there are little things about someone that you're romantically intertwined with that bother you do you think it's important to

voice those annoyances or do you? Because I guess my point is is if if someone's asking you to change a little nuances about yourself to kind of get them away from who they are at the court, do you think that's a good thing a bad thing? What's your what's your take on that? So I love this question and I can literally speak about it for hours because there's so many different levels to this and layers. Um,

this is the thing when you get into relationships. I think that, on one hand, is very healthy to notice things that you don't like about somebody because if you're under that spell, right we all when the romantic level, i'll call it, um, everything is amazing, and then that's going to go away at some point those you for feelings gued down and then you're stuck with the reality. But so I like when people can see all of

the person, right, So it's good and bad. So that's one too, do you don't you know a lot of people get in relationship to like Okay, I like them, but when we're married or when we're together, I'm going to change this. I don't think that's healthy. I think that the only way this works in terms of wanting to change something about your partner is if your ideal

for them matches their own. So, for instance, if you want your girlfriend to be um let's say Marilyn Monroe, but her ideal for herself as joan of art, there's manybe be a conflict there. It's never gonna match up, right, And I don't think it's fair either. If that's really who she is at her core, and that might threaten you, let's say, then maybe that's something for you to work

on in terms of how that makes you feel. So sometimes my point is if a person, let's say it's acting selfishly in relationship and you want them to change to be more of a sharing person, I think that's a worthwhile conversation because there's growth in that, and the relationships can grow and you can grow together as partners,

because I think that is a lofty goal. But again, if it goes back to I want her to be more feminine in this way, and who's really kind of somebody who's more spirited, you don't want to break that because it makes you feel uncomfortable. Do you think it

almost been? Do you do you think it almost be more of the other person's responsibility to fall in love with the characteristics that he would be hoping to change initially, right, Like, so it's like, instead of changing things about you, I'll just learn how to love those things about you that make you who you are. You know what I mean exactly, unless it's hurting them or you or something that they

also again want to change. Like let's say that you are somebody who practiced spirituality and they had no interest at all in it. I think those are kinds of signs again, how important is that for you to keep in your life? Or um, if you love to travel and they didn't write, so you could talk about why and you could encourage them. And I want to explore the world with you. I think you would want to meet somebody because let's about travel and more about is

that person flessible? And does that match your style. There's certain things that are worthwhile having a conversation. I think you can ask somebody to change and be excited about. But then there's other things that depends where you're coming from,

what's your agenda. It makes me think of that story of the Russian cosmonaut who goes up and there's like a ticking noise and a spacecraft and he can't find the ticking noise, and so rather than go rather than going insane, he just learns to fall in love with a ticking noise. It's kind of the same thing as it app its relationships, where it's like there might be things that bother you in small ways, but if you learn to love them for those things, then you you

you figured out you know well. I think it's all about compromising as well, not only just with physical things, you know, compromising what movie we're gonna go see, but compromising emotions as well, because there might be things that you don't particularly like about your significant other, but that doesn't mean that you don't love them or can't accept who they are for exactly that who they are, you know,

because you don't want to. But it is a hard balance and I agree with Dean and obviously Monica, you're tapping in on it that it is really hard to navigate. Well, what's what are the important things that I need my significant significant other to do for me UM that they don't necessarily um normally do. But again, where is it coming from? Are your expectations realistic? And are they there? Are they just in the physical? Are they something that

has more menium purpose attached to it? Because after time, looks said fest gettled. I mean all these things, yes they're important, and yes you want to catch them. Yes you want to have have a good test life, but that's not the end all be all. You have to decide on your own what are your top three things that really matter to that will last decades? Right? And those are the things I think are worth talking about and making sure that you are aligned and that you have

that in common, because that is what I mean. I'll be married twenty two years in August, like that is what keeps the relationships successful. And all the other things are things that you want to have last your and levity and be curious together. You have to at your core meet up and and again, the biggest thing, and it's actually there's a name for this, is called the Michelangelo effects. Gets back to the Joan of arc thing.

Your vision of them has to match their own business of themselves, and you keep trying to change somebody to match what you want, you can forget about it. And I think that there's yeah. I think that's yeah. No, I love You're so insightful, so I think that's where And it's so you said that Michelangelo, what is it

that's bad? That's bad effect. It's so true because when you meet someone you have you're projecting your expectations and what you want in a partner, and you're like, well, you see maybe one of the one of the qualities this person has, so you kind of associate all the other qualities that you want your partner to have in this person, and when they don't show up and they

don't have those actual qualities, you get disappointed. But I think it's a matter of taking time to really get to know your partner and giving them the space to show for them to show up as their true self instead of you projecting all those those expectations. Well, Monica, we we really appreciate you taking the time to call in today, Um and you just came out with the book Rethink Love correct, Well, that's coming out soon. So

the one that's that right now hears an option. But I will be back when the next one is out, I hope. And yes, when can we expect Rethink Love to hit shelves um in the next year. I mean it's done, but you know, there's a process. But I do have a blog that's called Rethink Life Today and lots of different articles and relationships than many other things. All Right, there you go. If you're listening to this and you want to learn more about Monica Um, check

out her blog. Be sure to check out her first book as well. Fears On an Option and Rethink Love will be hitting shelves hopefully within the next year, and we can definitely have you back on We would love to talk about that a little bit more as well. Great, thanks for having me. Thank you, Monica, Monica, Thank you, Monica, thank you. That was insightful. Fear is not an option. I think it's great when people I mean, no, she was super, she was great, She was insightful, and she

made a lot of sense. I love when people can use like logic and reasoning to back their opinions, and see, I agree, she did that a lot. She did do that a lot, because fear is pretty illogical, most of it, anyway. Some some fear is logical. Fear of heights, you know, because you don't want to fall and die. But fear of death is illogical because it's going to happen inevitably beautiful, it's poetic. Um. While Monica was on the phone, we had our good friend Ben Higgins walking in the studio.

He's eating a sandwich, but he's going to join us later on. So, Jean, you're talking about losing weight. Have you been working out? I have been trying to work out a lot more. And obviously we've talked about it here before about how what have we talked about? One of the main struggles of working out is going to the gym. Well, it takes too much time. By the time you drive their park get there, it's already twenty

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your schedule. Now, open Fit has changed the way that I work out. And you can use our code and you can join us on a fitness fitness journey personalized just for you. Again. You can use our code and start using open Fit for our journey, your journey to a healthier life style. And right now, during the open Fit thirty Day Challenge, our listeners, our listeners get a special extended thirty day free trial. Did you hear that thirty day three trial membership to open fit, where you

can lose up the fifteen pounds in thirty days. When you text Dean to thirty thirty thirty, that's text D E A and to three zero three zero three zero, you will get one more time. You will get full access to open fit. Sorry for interrupting you. It's spit passionate about open fit, all the workouts and all the nutrition information and totally free again. Just text D E A N two thirty thirty thirty and start today. All right,

we just had Monica on the line. I would love you have this guy just creeping around the podcast studio. He's like been begging for it to be a guest on the podcast for months now, honestly years and honestly. So what's funny is we obviously we do listener emails as often as we can. We love our listener emails. And it looks like our good friend actually sent us a listener email. Um, and I'm gonna read it his question maybe he can help us answer it himself. This

is not from Ben. I know it's not from Ben, but I'm gonna pretend like it actually is. I like that fantasy because the guy's name is Ben. Okay, So we got an email from a man named Ben and the title is social Media and Dating and Ben is ready to help. Ben just say hi to our our listeners. I was still lurking. I love that I was described as Hi Vanessa, Vanessa, I just texted you and says it's great to see your face. Um, oh you did. Yeah. I think I think I still have your phone number.

But either way, either that or somebody random just got a very nice text message from Ben Higgins looking around. I've never been described as lurking, and as I picture myself lurking, I feel like it does fit me. Um. Anyways, Hey everybody, thanks for letting me come on. Hey Ben, How's thing tells life? What are you doing in l A. I'm here for my podcast. I'm doing an event with Delta Um and sometimes I just like to come out here.

It makes me feel cooler when I lay in l A. I get off the plane, I look at the Hollywood Sign and I feel like I've made it, so I just find it. Yeah, you're a freaking star. Blend Um. I will say I was driving back from Colorado yesterday and um, I was driving to look in Novada or something, getting a little groggy. You know, it's a long drive, fifteen hours, and I turned one of my favorite podcasts, almost famous podcasts, and just listen to this guy talk

for forty five minutes. It was one of the best things I could have done for myself at time. And you fell as late I was driving, so thankfully. Then you have a very soothing voice. I can see you doing like audio books. Do you guys remember, um, sorry Vanessa, when Nick read that like audio book for like at one point, do you guys did you ever remember that he like did Yeah, he did a thing with audible and he he read. He was like the voice of some books that you could listen to. I have to

find these books. What is it called, like pds next a year like two years ago. Yeah, I remember when that came out. You could do that stuff, I feel like, or you could do like voiceovers for like like an Pixar movie. I'm not a great reader. Oh sometimes, well, hey, I'll tell you what. So we have a listener email. You don't have to read it. I'll read it to you. I know you're a great listener. Um, that's why you're

so great in relationships. So this email is from Ben for Ben and us as well the title of social media and dating, and Ben says, I recently broke up with my girlfriend of four years and I've been single ever since for about a year now. I've tried online dating and have gone on many dates off the apps, but none of them lead anywhere. And this is where our Ben Higgins can come in because he's a social media savant. I can't help but think this is mainly

due to my social media usage. I have never been a huge Instagram guy and I rarely post anything. But Vanessa states having met her boyfriend on Instagram, and Ben Higgins met his girlfriend through the same uh platform as well. So when talking with some of my women friends, they told me that when they match with the guy, the first thing they do is look them up on Instagram. And He's wondering. So, so Ben asked, am I missing out on quality matches by not using Instagram? And do

think I need to step up my Instagram game? As much as I hate social media in order to start dating. Good question, Ben um well. First off, that email was not from me to me, that emails from a fan of the podcast named Ben Vanessa. To start here, I didn't realize that you had met your really handsome boyfriend on social media as well. Yeah, he slid into my d m S and I was like, all four it. I did the same thing to Jessica. I slid into her d m S and it's working out really great. Um.

So here's here's the backstord all of this. The week. Uh, there was two weeks before I slid into Jessica's d MS. I had um found her picture because I was in Nashville and her picture is one of the top posts, and I screenshot it because I was like, this is creepy, feels very lurky. Um, what does that mean? Top posts? So I was staying at the Hilton Downtown in Nashville. Um, a hockey team was checking in and I was checking in and I was like, I wonder what hockey team

this is? And then you saw jess and I saw checking out and I was like, hey, this looks nice. Uh did you see her in person or you saw her on on Instagram? So I screenshot her profile held onto it, um and then uh, I was in Vegas actually with Jared and Dean and uh we were at the I Heeart Fest. And what happened was they told me, Hey, one of the cool things to do today is you message people on Instagram. I think Dean had said that.

I don't know if Jared was in on that conversation, not a fashionally sit next to me yet, um And I was shocked. Honestly, that was a surprise to me because I've always until that moment and in Vanessa, I'm really interested to hear what you think here. Until that moment, I thought it was a little creepy, a little weird, a little forward, and it wasn't exactly, um, the right thing to do, right, do you So you've never done

that before? I had no, not before, jess, um and so, and I guess never in a romantic way, like never with the pursuit of connecting with somebody. Let me let me ask you this, Ben, because obviously Jesse's I don't think they of us have met just in person, but we can see on Instagram she's a beautiful girl. Yeah, do you think that if she was she of course

she is. She's amazing and so are you Do you think that if she didn't curate her Instagram obviously it wasn't like she was wasn't like a social media blogger. Influence anything like that. But do you think that if she didn't have as much of a presence on social media as she did, she still would have caught your eye for you to want a d M R UM. I don't know. That's hard to say. Yeah, So then

the back stories. I I didn't messenged her and I said, hey, you know, whatever message I sent, like if you're into this or not, don you make a good point? Yeah? If if her her profile stood out to me for a few reasons, she's beautiful, Um, that stood out to me. So her picture was the first thing her. Her bio actually was a big deal to me. I talked a lot about faith, but not in like a really weird way, not in like a I believe in this kind of way.

It was just like I could tell it was an authentic like this is my expression and this is who I am in my bio. And then she had a lot of pictures with her friends, which was big to me, and a lot of smiling pictures and there was none that looked like she I don't like, was trying too hard, like there was nothing. But but yet she just had like a glow about her that was attractive to me,

and she was highlighting that. I don't think she meant to, honestly, knowing her now for the last few months, like I know, she definitely didn't mean to bring that out, but I saw that and I was attracted to it um and it allowed me at least the foundation to want to get to know her. But then there's still a lot

to know. So so Ben to answer your question. Been to Ben to answer your question, I think there is something fair um about being and and right about being as authentic and genuine as possible on your social media page, because at the end of the day, that is your expression of yourself to the public. I think I think

his concern is he maybe doesn't post frequently enough. And I know you, I know you have expressed to me how it's challenging because I think before the show, for you, and probably for me and Jared as well, we probably didn't post on Instagram very much. I didn't have you didn't have an Instagram exact post picture. I had a

Facebook that was private. And then a funny story, one of my friends was saying that I needed to create an Instagram and I was terrified, because you know, the show puts the fear of god in and it's like, don't go on social media, blah blah blah. And then I saw you Ben with an Instagram and I was like, oh, he's got an Instagram. Fine, Like they're not not gotta come after me, aren't you glad you did? Oh? Yeah,

very much? So yeah. Uh you know, I do think like social media has always been stressful for me and not in in the world. And I don't know, Vanessa, if you feel more stressed in this it's it's stressful for me because I don't know how to post enough, like I don't. I do a lot of really great things in my life is very full of joy and events and moments and stories. I feel that way, like I've never doubted that about myself. But here's my problem.

Two things. One capturing those moments I'm never good at. I'm always about five seconds behind, right, Oh that was a really cool thing. Can you re enact it for me? Or Two, I don't want to capture it because I'm I want to be in the moment. In three, like, I don't do that many things that then create a picture, you know, like golfing with my buddies on a Sunday, really good time, not a great Instagram post. Different for men versus women, Like I think for guys, you can

really just post anything you want to post. For women, I feel like they're I feel like there's such a strategy. That's when I had so much anxiety this past week. My boyfriend is so encouraging. He's like, we I have this camera and I thought I never used and he's like, Okay, we're gonna go around the city. We're gonna find like he followed a bunch of like cool Montreal accounts. He's like, we're gonna go around the city. We're gonna take some really cute pictures. I literally sat in the car and

I cried for an hour. I'm like I can't physically do it because I just feel like it's not authentic, Like why am I taking pictures? Why am I posting these pictures? And I just I felt like I just needed a little bit of a social media break. So like for the bend that did right into that did

right to the podcast. I think there is a level of um, I guess not a necessity to have a social media account, but that's how we connect with people, Like I don't give my phone a browt like follow me on Instagram and you know, we'll connect through Instagram and that's my that's my way of connecting with people. Um, but if you do want to have a social media account, then posted things, like Ben Higgins said, the things that

are true to yourself. Because I remember when I was posting a bunch of pictures of me and babies and puppies and I wanted to date this one guy and my friend was like, well, he doesn't want to date you because you look like a girl that just wants to get married. And I'm like, well, I do want to get married, So like thank you for not you know,

wanting to talk to me. So that that, by being authentically myself on on social media allowed me to kind of get rid of the people that I shouldn't be dating and attracted people I should be, like my boyfriend who slid into my d M. I do want to say though, before we move on, I I think that it's far easier for women to post on Instagram for

the simple fact. See I disagree because like maybe it's because of what has happened after the show for us, but like a great example is Ashley could post literally just a photo in a bikini. Right. She's like, I'm just gonna post this, right, and he gets hundreds of comments being like, you go girl, you look great, blah blah blah. If I posted a picture of me just standing on a beach in my bathing suit, people are like, what the hell are you posting this? What are you doing?

You can come up with good captions. I feel like your captions are are what appreciated that hours of stress going to those captures and as I love you, but you're dead wrong in this situation because, let to Jared's point, you can a girl like look at a Manastan and Rebeka Tilly, beautiful, charismatic, incredible women. All they have to do is post a picture and a cute off. It's say, thinking about tacos hundred k legs. You know guys can't

do that. It's not like it's necessarily fair unfair in anyway. It's just it's a different I'm not saying it's right or wrong. No, let me respond person. Pressure of posting That's what I'm That's what I'm trying to convey, the pressure of posting a picture that will I think that's all for all of us, because we do have like this little bit of following on Instagram, and it's like, no, no, no, I think if you don't get stressed out when you

post a picture. No, I never stressed out about posting a picture, both because if all fails, like I mean, I'm not going down that much of my life. But no, I don't mean going down. I just mean in terms of criticism and heat more so, like I just people know. People aren't gonna care, like you said, like like a great picture of me golfing on a Sunday with my friends. It's like, sure, I'd love to post this, but no one's gonna cares. It's too full here. So you're not

wrong and she's not wrong in this world. So you often us remember the environment that we're living in. The environment that we're living in is very women followed. And so for being a woman and posting on Instagram, you're gonna get more attention, you're gonna get more criticism, and you're also gonna get a lot more praise because that's a demographic that's following watching we Unless I'm Dean and you, Jared,

you look good right now? Thanks, You look good. You can stand on a beach and take a picture and women are going to enjoy it. But at the same time, most of the women following this show aren't interested in seeing twenty to thirty year old dudes shirtless on a beach. You might enjoy it, they might appreciate it, but what they really want to follow is are the women like what are they wearing, what kind of makeup are they using?

How can my life be enhanced or what can I figure out that's a secret to the world that I'm living in in my everyday life. So so the pressure of all of this or or the following to bring it back down to the question that was asked is how social media is today at its simplest form, and maybe the best way to use it is now like

our family photo album of thirty years ago. And so it's expressing the moments in your life that means something, that shares something with others, that's the story of what you're doing on a daily basis, and it makes it easier for the public to see. So ben my opinion,

and it's just my opinion. If you want somebody to truly know you, if you want somebody to share life with you and you don't and you want them to see that from the start, like through your social then you're gonna have to share what you're doing in your life so that they can see it, be inspired by it, be excited by it, or be at at the most intrigued and curious enough to go I want to know more.

I agree. I think for Ben he needs to do exactly that, which is just curate his Instagram to whatever he wants it to be right to like whatever he enjoys and likes. Because I'm speaking from a different perspective.

I'm speaking from the perspective of a guy coming off the Bachelor with his following the female and having the pressure we talked about, right, like not a business yes, but also like the people that follow me don't care about me playing sports or don't care about me like doing a lot of things that I like enjoy doing because I like sports, I like, you know, listen to you know, alternative rock, whatever, exactly right, So if I post something with Ashley, it's going to get a lot

more interest than me posting something that I'm interested in that doesn't involve Actually, how sad is that? I feel like we're quantifying everything like our wait, the number of life, the number of following two things to say, and everyone needs to shut up for a little bit because I haven't said the thing in a while. Um. Two points to relate to topics that we've talked about for the

past ten minutes. One of them, to Jared's point, I posted a picture when I was rock climbing in New Mexico's past week, very cool picture that I thought I was like a hunter, feet up on a rock, hanging from the rock. Posted, the picture gets like pretty low engagement. My manager text me and says, hey, the next picture you post better be a gosh darned picture your face, because we need to make sure your engagement is consistent for brands all that kind of stuff. And that stuff

sucks because it's like suck. Yes, uh, it sucks because I like doing I like showing people what I'm doing, like rock climbing, scheme, whatever it is. That stuff doesn't do well, but that's the stuff that I like to share. UM. So I see Jared's perspective on that. And then back to Ben our emailer, I would like to point out that to to what Ben Higgins said earlier as well,

that now we have this digital family photo album. UM, and I think it's almost the inverse of what you should be doing on your dating profile, where the Instagram is a good opportunity for you to show you having fun with your friends in your daily life. I don't think that there should be many solo pictures of you on your Instagram, you know what I mean, We in a sense have to do it because we're we're essentially

creating the brand first off, whatever it is. But um, it's it's important show you have a lot of friends. It's what really attracted Ben Higgins to Jess. He said that she had a lot of friends and a lot of her pictures, and I think that goes a long way to that that you're fun, that you're engaging, your fun too, and fun to be around. But then on the dating profile it should be individual pictures because obviously you don't want to be in the group with all

that kind of stuff. Those are my two points, and I'm sorry I wanted to work them in organically into the conversation. Ben is a big talks a lot, and I wasn't able to squeeze it in. So I appreciate you guys being quiet for a little bit and let me get my fill. But everybody listens when Ben's Ben talks, when the Ben's talk. Um, Ben, can you help us please?

Just just me and you right here right now. Um, Jared and Vanessa are just gonna fade away into oblivion for the for the thirty seconds while we set this up anyway. UM, no, you better stay right there. Buster. Um, I don't know if you listened to last week's episode of our podcast. Ben doesn't need to be involved in this. That's Ben is the most diplomatic person, and it's not about diplomacy. But I'm has nothing to do with the plug. I think that we should give provider listeners with some

resolution here. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't. I'm just saying we probably shouldn't add chiming for one second. I do agree that you don't need to add anybody else to it. I love you. Know. The truth is you already have what it was on a podcast. It was on a podcast. You're absolutely right, but it wasn't something obviously I wanted to talk about on the podcast.

But as you will know, sometimes it's not just about us, and whoever thinks that it's literally just about us executing what we want to say and what we don't want to say is naive And I'm not saying I said it on the podcast, and I should have probably if it bothered me to the point where I didn't want to talk about it, I should have had the backbone to say I'm not talking about it no matter what. And I didn't, and I'm getting flak for that and

paying the consequences for it, and that's fine. Well, can I say something, yes, okay? Um? I first of all, there, for on my end, there's zero hard feelings, zero hard feelings at all. And for people who did hear it, listen to the podcast. Jared and I spoke right after the podcast. We spoke over the weekend. We've been texting, um and like we're all adult adults here, Like there's no you know, from at least on my end, there's

like zero hard feelings. And I want to talk about expectations and vulnerable, vulnerability, because it's something that I tried to process throughout the week, and in relationships, whether that's a romantic relationship or interpersonal relationships, we have a level of expectation and that usually leads to disappointment. And in this case, I was wrong for putting those expectations on you, Jared.

So I'm sorry if my expectations made this situation uncomfortable and it made for an awkward situation between you and I, especially on air, and that was the last thing that I wanted. But I also want to talk about vulnerability, which we really try to do on this podcast, and ESPEC seen the last episode. It was an extremely raw and vulnerable conversation on my end and on Jared's end. And I keep encouraging people to be their true self and to show up and to be vulnerable instead of

instead of trying to hide their true feelings. Now that being said, it doesn't allow for outsiders to judge, for outsiders to make fun of it, for outsiders to be mean and demeaning, And that's the core issue here. People are scared to be judged for being vulnerable, but that's what we're encouraged to do. And yet we did that, and like I got heat for it too. I got a lot of like mean comments about it. Um So, the mean people that wrote to me, I hear you.

I read it. The people that were writing me nice comments, I hear you, and I read those things too. But I think at the end of the day. Um, if your expectations aren't being met, like, of course there's going to be a level of emotion that came out. And that was what ended up happening with me and in retrospect, like, I'm a very emotional person. Um so I was trying to I had my tears, but I just couldn't control it. And I did apologize to Jared for not being able

to control my emotions. Um to apologize now, I know, but I apologize for again like the level of expectation and for making it. I didn't want it to be awkward between us, and I felt so guilty because I like, that's the last thing I want for someone who's getting married like this is it's supposed to be the most magical day ever and the journey of it, Like, I know how stressful it can be. I don't want to

add stress to that. Um So yeah, and I think I think for me, this served I hope for our listeners, um an example of what friendships can't be like and not to waste your energy on being mad at someone or resentful towards someone if you're in a similar situation and you know, just try to be understanding and try to understand what the other person may be going through.

And that's what I just wanted to say, because I don't want anyone listening thinking that I'm mad at anyone, or that I'm putting the blame on other people, or it was all on me, and it was my level of expectation that wasn't met and that's what ended up

showing up. Um, I don't know, you know, no, that's great, thank you for saying that, Vanessa, And of course, like, uh um, yeah, I just uh, it was a you know, it was something I should have certainly talked to both you and Nick about a long time ago, because no one's ever talked to me about it, and it's an uncomfortable conversation and it's just been weighing on me for quite some time, and I've been putting it off because I don't even know what the right answer is and

I don't know what I'm supposed to do. And I've never planned a wedding before, and I've never had this situation where like, there's people that were inviting, but that also means that there are people that are not going to be invited, and I'm not saying who's invited and who's not. I don't know what the hell I'm saying anymore, but it's just something that hah, there's there's nothing to be said. There's just there's nothing to be said. I don't know to um, I'm only digging a hole deeper now.

I felt like I had things to say and now I don't. You're not so So here's my take as a fan of both of yours and Dean um is a fan of the podcast and a fan of the two of you. I can't imagine what is like the planet wedding. I just can't. I think actually it's a it's a very relatable topic when when stresses like this

come down. Jared, I understand your your frustration, especially that this kind of stuff gets here, But there is something here that is really um fun, I guess enjoyable for me between the two of you, and you did something really brave and courages. You had a conversation in front of the masses that a lot of people have to deal with, and you allowed the listeners in um in

a vulnerable way. And I know it was an ideal and I bet it could have been handled a thousand different ways with a better path, in a more understanding path forward. But what you did do is you allow people in to hear a conversation that was real. And here here's the truth of it. All friendships aren't always perfect. Like, they have arguments, they have battles, they have expectations that aren't meant. Relationships fall on their face oftentimes romantic physical friendships,

whatever that is. We just happened to get a glimpse of it. And it's not pretty. It's not no matter who you are. And now just this sitting here, now it's like, okay, we work through it. We're adults. We called each other, we talked to each other, we explained the situation, and now we move forward. But here's what's important about this conversation to me, as a fan of both of yours. If this doesn't happen on this podcast, I'm lost Togo. Do they like each other? Are they

mad at each other? Do they hate each other? Is there still weird things happening? But now I know it is the unfortunate situation to where uh, obviously I guess it was a a spontaneous conversation that came up. But to Ben's point, yet, there's a lot of stuff that happens off air that the audience doesn't necessarily see, and even the co host sometimes don't see. Like, you know, I knew you guys talked about to what extent I

was unsure? Um, And so to to Ben's point, I think, you know, it's good to hear both of your I guess resolution from the the whole I guess conversation we had last week. So I don't think I really said anything. No, you did. Jareduary, good dude, one of the best dudes I know, and I know you care deeply, and I know this really pissed you off, and it should. It's more so it's just like listen, it's just yeah, I don't know. In Vanessa, You're beautiful, You're great. Thanks for

hanging out with me today. I'm out. Um, I love you all. This is a great podcast. You guys are just fantastic. By Ben, thank you, thank you for emailing us. Oh wait, no, that was the other Bend. Sorry. Um. Yeah, I think he made some great points. He can verbalize things a lot better than I think you can. Yeah. Um, well okay, so so let's move on. Then. It sounds like you guys are in a good spot. It sounds like, you know, you guys were able to to talk it out,

and I think that's the important thing. Like Ben said, were all adults here. We all love each other. At the end of day. Friendships are weird. Sometime times they don't go, you know, as as they're supposed to, but at the end of day, we all love each other. It's talking about friendships. It's just sking stupid. We have to talk about this, but I agree, But we talked about it, and I think the audience needs to know that there has been a resolution on both of your

guys the side. No, No, it's fine, it's not. No, there's nobody's fault. You know, it's just it's stupid, and I don't know how to handle it. So it's it's it's not it's it's just like I feel like I have to Like I don't even know, I didn't even know. I don't even know. I don't know. I wish. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. I think Jared's broken. I'm broken. I'm a broken man. It's also it's not just this, obviously, there's other stuff going on. Oh,

you're super stressed, you're planning a wedding man. It's not just the wedding. There's business things too that it's very stressful right now. And it's just like, I just want the wedding to be you know, I don't want it's just yeah, it's expensive and everybody's planning and it's hard, and I'm just like, I feel like I can not do anything right. Well right. So I remember when my sister got married. Um, I remember asking her, like, so,

how did the coach? Like, I don't even remember it, And I remember her telling me the day you get married, just focus on the things that you know are going to be the most meaningful parts of your wedding, and those all those little nuances that you think are important before the wedding are not gonna matter after you get married.

And I was like the best piece of advice. And I remember, I mean, I've never gotten married, but friends of mine who have I always relate that message back to them because I'm like, you want to make sure you could be present and in the moment, and kind

of like when someone is pregnant. You know, I imagine how tough it is to be pregnant, but it's important to be in the moment and within those nine months to still um, appreciate the fact that you're creating this, this life and so yeah, it's like you're creating this this wedding and you want to make sure that it's it's it's going to be beautiful, and I know it's

going to be one thank you, thank you. Yeah, we'll put its beautifully put and Jared, at the end of the day, you'll always be my second favorite co host. Appreciate a buddy. Um, Okay, well let's move on. So summer, well, summer, it's not really around the corner for me, but springs around the corner and I love, love, love love having little picnics. Um, But one thing that I hate is warm alcohol. I don't think anyone likes warm alcohol, and

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Visit broommate dot com slash Vanessa to get off your first order. That's off your first order when you go to be Are you m a t e dot com slash Vanessa? Okay you guys, Well that'll do it for this week's episode of Help I Suck at Dating. I just want to say to both of Jared and Vanessa Ben's gone that I do appreciate both of you being willing to open up and talk about everything that's going on in your life. It doesn't matter what it is,

it doesn't matter whether it's good or bad. And I think that's what at the end of the day this podcast is great for is we can talk about the good things, we can talk about the challenging things, and it's not free of judgment, but we know at the end of the day that you know, this is what we're here for. Is what we sign up for, us, what we love, this is why we do it. So I appreciate both you guys, Easton and Mark and Tory and Amy and everybody. Yes, that's what I was gonna say.

Appreciate both of you. I am honored to come in here every single week with you guys. Um, I need to get a set up like Vanessa has, maybe in just podcast out of my van at some point. But well that's a bridge will cross. A little bit needs to happen. Um. Big thank you to Monica Burg. Of course, be sure to check her book out Fear Is Not An Option, and her new book, uh Rethink Love will be hitting shelves later this year. Big thank you to Shake Shack. Oh my god, I love Shake Shack. Shake

Shack is the greatest burgers. I used to think that there was another fast food chain with the best cheeseburgers, and I have been proven wrong to say the least that which cannot be named. Yeah, I don't even know if we can say it, but this shake Shack has the best cheeseburgers. They actually just opened up one in Rhode Island. Oh, I'm sure that place is going to be packed for four years. Is that the only fast

food restaurant in Olive, Rhode Island? No, but it's the first time Shake Shack has gone there, and I'm telling you shake Shack. Dude has a name, has a following. Um. They also love Game of Thrones, and that's why Shakeshack is celebrating the last season of Game of Thrones. It

sounds like you're saying game love Thrones. Game the From now until May nineteen, all Shakeshack locations, excluding like stadiums, ball parks, all that kind of stuff, we'll be serving the dragon Glass Shake, which is a minted white chocolate custard topped with shards of dragon glass. Sounds painful. The shake is made from custard which is frozen with packed snow harvested beyond the Wall hands churned by members of

the Night's Watch. Vinyl prep occurs in winter Fell, where the shake is topped with shards of that dragon glass, as we mentioned earlier, imported from the Caves of dragon Stone. Please note that supplies are limited as well, because the Wall is currently undergoing major renovations. This is all nerds stuff that's just over my head, are you guys? Game thrown? I've never watched an episode. My boyfriend was watching the new season last night. I'm like, I need to get

cut up, cut up? How many seasons are there? Nine. I think here's the thing. Here's the thing. All my friends are obsessed with it. None of my friends are nerds. I consider myself a nerd as it pertains the video games, certain things. We all have our own nerdy aspects, right.

The most beautiful thing about being a nerd is that there is not mass appeal for it, and the fact that everyone is obsessed with Game of Thrones, And then they get on me for not liking it because I'm normally in like the fairy tale dragon, you know, slayer, that kind of stuff. You're the nerd for not liking it. No, I just like the But I'm just saying the fact that something like this has such massive appeal removes the intrigue for me. But I see what you're saying, right,

you're kind of broadcasting. Yeah, you want to be against the green. Yes, I'm I'm a nonconformist. Anyways, I don't even know why I'm still talking fisces. Huh. Anyways, that'll do it for this week's episode of Help I suck at dating as always. I'm Dean, I'm Jared, and I don't know why we're doing that, but I kind of liked it. Thank you for listening to this week's episode, be sure to tune in next week. We have a really great episode end up for you a special special guests.

We're not gonna spoil it for you, but what did you find out on your own terms? Um, because maybe we'll suck a little bit less. Follow hell by suck at Dating with Dean, Vanessa and Jared on I Heart Radio or wherever you listen to podcast h