Breadcrumbing

It's like a second home. I feel like we can all just co miserate on our suckiness together every week on Monday, and sometimes Jared, Mark and Easton are part of it too, a couple of times a week, not too many times? Do you? Does Caitlin think you suck a dating? Kalen duff Is definitely does think I suck

at dating? I do? I storry At the top of this, I do want to congratulate our good friends Becca and Tanya for their People Choice Award for their podcast Schedualized Rout of Lost, second Year Runnings two years in a row and gosh dang, and I'm so freaking jealous. And I'm so jealous, which is why right now I want to make a challenge inch to everybody in this studio and everybody listening to this podcast. We have three and sixty four days until the next let's kno, okay, scrubbing,

How do you get nominated? What does that process? Because I don't even know. I think fans have to nominate. They do, so Scrubbing it has some very loyal fans, that is the truth. So does help by Second Dating. Don't ever under underestimate our suck at daters. Okay, sucky das. If you're out there, let's all suck together. So all suck together. We have one year, one year to get us on the right track to be nominated for the

People Choice Award of Best Pop Podcast. And I'm challenging everybody in this room, everybody listening to this podcast right now, and whoever our future third host is. We're getting nominated next year. Howlp. I Second Dating is getting nominated the People Choice Awards for Best Best Pop Podcast. And damn it, we're gonna wait. I wanted us to be clear on something. The sucking is not gonna stop. We're gonna keep sucking. We're gonna suck harder than we've ever seen it. So hard.

You've never been sucked so hard in your life. But we want to suck with you, and we want to suck on stage at the People's Choice Awards next to year, and that stage hard, baby. So you're saying, Tobecca and Kinna, they are unnoticed that you're coming for them next, We're coming for him. Behind us is not happy Dean Jared the unnamed third co host, and the suck army is coming. We're coming for you, Dad. You've got three and sixty four days to be on that throne. She just she

did the whole finger across the next thing. Tanya is actually quite intimidating, which she's mad anyways, but real talk. Congratulations to them they kill and Janna Kramer was a nominee as well. Jannah was Caitlin Bristol for her podcast I Hope. Congratulations to I Heeart podcast. Okay, Janna and Tanya and Becca congratulations. Congratulations guys. Um. Also, today is the big day for you, and it's a big day for me personally. It's an actor's birthday. He's one of

my favorite actors of all time. He's one of all our favorite actors of all time. Let's be honest. Now we're taking podcast, but we have to talk about this. It's Leonardo DiCaprio's birthday, Ladies and gentlemen, I just watched laugh Forever. I watched Once Upon a Time in Hollywood on my flight back from New York. Well, I was gonna ask, thinking, like, go see, it's Leo's birthday. What

is your favorite Leonardo DiCaprio movie. Honestly, as much as I really enjoyed Once upon the Time and how they would have thought he was fantastic in it, I think my favorite acting performance of his was in Gilbert Grape. Oh. He's incredible and disappears into that. You know, it's so funny that movie has for a lot of people not aged well, and his performance has an aged disagree. I think I think he's fantastic in it. But but it is it a situation where if you play is it

no longer correct to play someone with a handicap? I think it is correct. Brian Cranston went through this when he was upside down? Are the up and Down? He was in the movie with Kevin Hart, where he played a paraplegic got a lot of flap side side, thank you. He got a lot of flak for doing that. But at the end of the day, an actor's job is to perform a role. So true, but nowadays they say, calft someone with that affliction as that role, or half

the transgender and a transgender role. And scartlet your hands and was supposed to play a transgender she dropped out because of the backlash. So all right, I can see both sides of it, because I can see the side where you want people with the you know, with a

disability to have an opportunity to get that role. But at the same time, a lot of production companies are investing a lot of money in these in these you know films, and so you wanted to do well, so you get an actor like Brian Cranston, and so actually you want to challenge, You want to challenge, and playing someone who's blind, for example, is a huge challenge for an act exactly. But we're really getting off topic. But

so that's your favorite role. Is it also your favorite movie? Okay, give me a second on you know you're a big film guy. I really liked Revolutionary Road. He Didted with Michael Shannon. Yet over two and movies I've ever even heard of. You never heard a Revolutionary Road again. It was the first movie they did together since Titanic, and they went on record saying they wanted to do a very small and well not it's not a all indie movie, but a very small production scaled movie because of Titanic.

Whenever they did another movie together, which was Revolutionary Road directed by Sam Mendez, one of my favorite directors because he did American Beauty. I feel like everyone just flexing on me right now. Everyone knows all that stuff about movies. You're name in these lesser known movies that apparently Leo is just kick acid in. You're knowing directors and all that big film guy. By the way, Revolutionary Road. Great

performance by Michael Shannon. Oh my god, Michael Shanahan was a channing for the Broncos and was for that movie. I believe you got an Oscar nomination. Should we just turn this into a movie podcast? What's your game? What's your favorite Leo movie? Well, and I feel like I need to say something I can't say like Titanic. You can't say Titanic because that's land, but anything else work. Well, you could say Titanic. Um, it's either between catch me

if you can, that's one or Wolf of Wall Street. There. Okay, let me let me ask you this. So back when I used to have a job, uh in our office, to kill time, we would sometimes google actors and then when you google actor, there's like a list of movies that come up. And so the game was you would google the actor, and then everyone around you would have to guess the first three movies that come up when you google that actor. It's really Bird in the Midnight

Oil over there. Hey, we worked hard to be played. Okay, so I'm gonna I'm gonna play that game with you guys right now, real quick if we can. Okay. So Leonardo DiCaprio is the actor that's googled. There's three movies that come up. It's basically like it's not maybe the most it's not like the biggest box office hit movies, but it's three movies that probably the most. Well you did this, you look this up. I have it on my phone right now and you're playing the game, So

don't look it up. I'm not I'm not. I was about to in the night close the town. You get three strikes and This might take a little longer than we have time for, but we're gonna play it real quick. Three strikes. Leonardo's the first three movies on Google. We'll do it once a week. How about right with a different actor, absolutely an actor of the birthday of that week, birthday today. Here we go instituting a new tradition right now, and everyone has to agree on the movie that you're saying.

So like, if Easton says if you can, and one of you disagrees, then you can't it myself Eastern Mark, he normally get three strikes. I'm only giving you, guys two strikes considering your movie. Buffons. Titanic is obvious, right, that's got I would say Titanic has to be up there. Yes, that's locked in. Titanic is alright, alright, alright. Now number two, The Departed has to be up there. Right for Lee, I think he's almost well known. Yeah, I think they Departed.

I don't know. This is tough because he has a lot. I would say either The Departed or Wolf of Wall Street. The Revenception could be up there, but he did win for Revenant. That that which will boost its Google searches. God, alright, we Departed. Now now I'm second guessing myself, though maybe not Departed. I feel like Wolf of Wall Street might be more up there than Departed, by the way, Departed is my favorite. I wonder if this is affected by

recent movies. I could Once Upon a Time and how they would be in there because everyone's taught, everyone's googling, and now, all right, what is our vote? I'm nervous. Are we get two strikes? So should we go Wolf Wall Street or Revenant? I say one of those two street? Yeah, even though you want for the revenue, people are probably googling Wilful all Street more and it's there. All right, you have one more movie to guess, and do you have two strikes? So good jobs so far. I say

we go with Once Upon Tom in Hollywin. I don't think that's about the timing of it just came out in the summer. It's probably coming to DVD very soon. He'll likely get nominated for this, I believe, because it's a big, high profile Tarantino movie. Oh it's great. Okay, yeah, I mean, okay, Once upon a Time in Hollywood is not on. No, we're in trouble. I got one more stroke account all right, let's think about this. It's got to be your inception could be up there, but revenue

he did win for Best Picture? What about like? Uh? Did the Aviator like Men in the Iron mask the beach? The beach might be out there. Uh. The only thing I'm thinking about the parted here is because Scorsese has been in the news with the Irishman and the whole thing. Maybe that's the time because we got that one wrong. So maybe timely isn't the way to play this game. May we get that one right? What's spent time? Hollywood was up there? Right? Oh no, no, that was our strike.

I gotta really pay attention. Yeah, so I'm thinking it might just be an accumulative search. I also hope people listening to this are driving so they don't have they can't. Is it gonna be some dating advice? Just help my second day? I don't want to be that guy. But for the sake of time, we are now on a thirty second time or done a ten second time or thirty seconds way so long. I love knowing that Dean has updated a thirteen point one because that's the new timer.

So that's a good to have. Oh he upgraded of the circle. The circle going around was a lot of time seconds. Uh what did we narrow it down to inception a Revenant? Oh no, no, in stept sharing Departed, right, I think I think the Departed. It was your first instanct. We're going departed. You're going departed over all of those other ones, the part it is no on that third one. It was the only one who's won an oscar for the revenue. Damnit. Next week for another episode after Movies

with Marty's Garrett. Yeah, that was fun. It's a stupid game, but it's kind of fun. Anyways. Congratulations to Leonardo DiCaprio for celebrating his fifty eight birthday today. Yes, how old? I have no idea. He's got to be late forties. He's got bring it up. Podcast is going to be about Dicaprioeen, is it older? Younger than seven? I think it's omnose on these. I think he's younger. I think

he's so close. Well, we have an incredible episode for you, Leonardo DiCaprio is gonna be wouldn't that be some actually funny story? I told you, I texted you guys this. I saw Lawrence Fishburn at Hopeful it's right across the street, and I wanted to say hi so badly because I'm a big Lauren Laurence Fishburn fan. I remember watching The Matrix as a kid. It was very influential as in my childhood. And then I went back and watched a lot of a lot of Laurence Fishburn's movies that I could.

I was a big fan of a movie called Fled, which was like this total be action movie with him, Stephen Ballwood and Samahiak and I freaking loved that movie so much. It was like that movie that you'd go to Hollywood Video or Blockbuster as a kid and just rent constantly. It was like either that or Superman for the Quest for Peace. This is the kind of child I was, um But anyway, so that's that's our That's

that's my actors sighting for the day. What Jerry was trying to say was, we got a great episode today. We're gonna have We're gonna have Tracy Crossley on who has her own dating podcast, to talk about attachment styles a little bit with her. We're gonna speak with Katie from fab fit Fun just a little bit. We love f fit Fun here on the Help by second dating podcast. Um, before we do any of that, we're gonna take a quick break. But before we took that quick break, Jared,

how was that last week? Nap? It was great. We recorded a couple of episodes. We had Joan Kendall talking about their dating app. We interviewed a band called King Callaway, which is like this young country band, but also it's a little bit of a boy band, which they didn't like when I said that. But I'm a huge defender of boy bands, as you guys well known, and I think Backstreet Boys is one of the most uh polarizing and uh popular bands and the history of music. That's right,

I said it come at me, bro Uh. They were awesome and so it was a lot of fun. But it stayed at this beautiful resort. It was a great time, quick trip, but a lot of fun. Nice Thanks for asking Dean, we missed you. Why Why couldn't you come? I was in Mexico or not climbing? That makes sense for ten days? I know I followed Dean's location on my phone. Soever I go my find my friends in mecations? Do we share? I know I have ours? You only have mine. It's funny, actually, cause I was in Mexico

when you guys were recording in that. But I was like, I wonder if Mark's like, you know where I am right now? Actually crossed my mind. I was like, I wonder if Mark's like checking me out? I checked you up. I think it's only fair if you share your Yeah, I follow Mark's location. I'm gonta send mind to you two right now, just so you have it. Share locations with each other, oh constantly, I'm surrobasedly has to put a chip in me. Yet I think Caitlin and I

have hard locations shared. I'm pretty sure. I never check it. It was very funny. I'm waiting for it. Um, but yeah, we share locations. But anyway, yes, Eastern, I'm very just let me know here we go, share location share indefinitely. So what now is his team Mark and Dean versus team Eastern and Jared or what Well, if it's in terms of like how many miles actually I might win because I fly a lot, I'm not drive a lot. I'm not saying we'll get those miles Eastern, I'm just saying,

if Mark has my location, Easton has your location. That's kind of like division of keep tabs on the host. Yeah, like Eastan where the hell's Jared? Even though I'm always on time, So I don't know why we say that. Uh, did you drive down to Mexico by the way, No, I flew La Monterey, drove up to Hudalgo rock climb for ten days. Great, I think, no real dating new to report back from that trip. I didn't record a podcast with Joe and Kendall or anything like that, but

it was fun. I mean, we missed you a napa. It's always better when we're together, but it's always better when we're together. I didn't shower the entire time I was down there, which is great as a personal challenge I set out for. I felt, when the last time you wash your hair yesterday? When I got back, How long did you go? Ten days? But I jumped in the pool a couple of times. I just like, didn't shower. Ever, Chlarine helps unfortunate for the people who also use that

pool or sat next to you on the plane. Right. But here's the thing that I've actually realized is a lot of what the hell is it smell like chlarine in this plane? Whenever I'm around you guys, I always feel like an outsider, right, But whenever I'm around people like that, like like rock climb with or do any of that stuff. But they're all doing the same stuff I'm doing. They like put me. They like love that I'm living in a van. They love that, like I'm

out stinky and stuff. Let me clarify. We all love that you're living in a vantage. But I guess I'm sorry I need to clarify too. I guess that we all are just kind of doing the same thing, and so we all like understand each other a lot more in that sense specifically where they're like, yeah, I haven't showered in two weeks, are there? Yeah I've been homeless for four months now, and like stuff like that, and they all it's just like it's like it's like second

nature to them, you know what I mean. They're I was like, oh, yeah, I'm flying to Alaska to go skiing for two weeks now, and I'm like that sounds Where do you stay in Mexico? Yeah, we had an airbnb. There's like there's like twelve of us in a in a big airbnb. Did you know all twelve people? It was just like okay, yeah, I thought there was like some sort of van community. Do you feel safe down there? I know that was a concern. Yeah, we looked up

some headlines before going down there. There's like eighteen butchered and dismembered and throwing in a world and we kind of joked about it. But then when we got down there, there was never a moment where we felt unsafe. And it's kind of a bummer that Mexico gets such a bad rep and like, obviously there's some bad stuff that's happening, but there's also bad stuff that's happening in the US. I don't know that we don't really pay much attention to.

But yeah, no, I've never felt unsafe. Um, it was. It was a good trip and I'm glad that you had a good trip up in Napos. I'm sad I missed it. Yeah, I'm sad you missed it too, But well we'll be back. Were back in Nappy anytimes. What's funny is I texted Amy, I said, Hey, I can't come. I'm going to be in Monterey and she goes, wait, that's perfect, that's what We're gonna be in the Monterey California. Yeah, And I was like, oh, wait, no, that's not right.

I mean Monterey, Mexico. Now you anyways, special episode, anything else you wanna touch on before we get into our first break, before our first guest, no, I say, we'd go right to it. And then we have fa Fit Fun coming up with. If you're in southern California and love Cheryl Crow, who doesn't love a little soak up the sun, we have something very special for you. Cheryl is doing a private performance at the I Heart Radio

Theater Monday, December two at seven pm. It's free. You just need to email us to R s v P and we will email you back to confirm. So email I suck at dating at i heeart Media dot com. That's I suck at dating at i heeart media dot com if you would like tickets to see Chryl Crow in l A. All right, we are back with the one of the co founders of fab fit Fun, Katie Kitchens. Katie, how are you and well, how are you? We are great? Thank you for joining us and for our listeners out there.

You've heard us talk about fat fit Fun before. You probably are already a subscriber to fab fit Fun. And if you're not, you've probably seen any one of the numerous Bachelor alumni promoted on their social channels, maybe on their podcast. But Katie, just give us a quick rundown on what fab fit Fun is. Absolutely So. We are

a lifestyle membership best known for our subscription boxes. So people can sign up, they pay fifty dollars a quarter and they're going to get treated to over two hundred dollars in full size beauty, fashion, fitness, home wellness and text products every season and then it gives you access to a greater membership. So things like fat bit Fun TV. Our community are amazing flash shales where members can shop um really great brands, UM with better prices anywhere they

can find online or in real life. Okay, so what kind of stuff is it? Though, it's it's it's basically you in a sex but there's a lot of it's female oriented as well or what I don't know, beauty products I know my favorite. Yeah, it's what we call lifestyle. So you know every you know, it's just everything that

makes you feel good. So you know, in the beauty categories, there's getting care, there's hairy care, there's cosmetics, um, all of the body out work to like tech products, and so that's what we're talking about, you know, Beats, headphones, UM, electric diffusers, massagers, all kinds of cool stuff. Who hand picks the stuff that goes in the box. So UM, it's been a little bit of an evolution UM that I sort of oversee what we call partnerships that includes

carrying the box. So in the beginning, you know, I picked eight products that I loved. Everyone came from UM, a digital media brand that we had built UM, and so they were very much my demotip. I liked it. You know, chances were high that members were gonna like it as well. And now that we are one million clubs, it's a much more diverse audience. UM. So we have a merchandising team who has you know, incredible case as trend forecasting over a year in advance, alongside a really

robust UM consumer insights and data science team. You know, so they are constantly serving members about who they are, what brands they are like, what trends are excited by and all of that. Then you know, arms the merged team to go find you know, the best products and the best brands each season. And I think the other piece that's kind of cool is that you know. The boxes are now customized to each individual member, so um

work since two ways you know one. Members can pick different products in their box, so you may choose between, you know, an eyeshadow pellette and oversized scarf or an electric diffuser, or if you want to remain surprised each season like the beginning are wonderful team of data scientists will choose for you based on your profile. I'm a big advocate of f fit Fun. It's a great gift for your fiance wife in my opinion, Dean, it's a great gift for girlfriends as well. So if you're looking

for a Christmas gift for Calin, look no further. It's very high on the list. And I also enjoy it because it's like a Christmas gift every season because you get one box for every season. You get winter, spring, fall, uh, and summer. Miss that one whoops uh. And it's like you said, you can customize it to um your own

personal needs. So if you're a member and you want a particular beauty product over one, or if you want like a blanket in there, or if you want to make it a little bit more unisex, like you were talking about Dean, you can do that, which is pretty awesome. He let me ask you this. So it's a seasonal product, right, Like you get one box per season. Let's say I get my girlfriend the box as a gift, but then god forbid, we break up, but she's still getting the

gift every every single season. What do I do? Then? What is wrong? Either you're the best ex boyfriend to exist, which let's that's cool um, or your credit card you can transfer it over to your new girlfriends. But I guess I'm more curious what's the etiquette on it? Like I don't want her to stop receiving the boxes just because we broke up, do I? I I mean, it depends if you cheat on you, like what was the reason for the breakout? You're right, So if it's amicable, then

maybe we can continue out like another four seasons. But if it's if it's like yeah, yeah, okay, if you're not. But we've seen that before where it's like, you know, you go through a breakup and then you have like these joint subscriptions to things, then where do you go how do you allocate one subscription to the next. In this case, I think that you just kind of keep getting letting her get the Fit Fund box. Well, anyway,

we're gonna segue away from that whole conversation. But also with fat fit Fund, like you said, Katie, it is nine for the subscription seasonal subscription. But for all your listeners out there, if you guys use our promo code help, you're gonna get ten dollars off your first box, which these boxes have over two dollars worth of value in each box that you'll get with our code help for thirty.

It's the perfect Christmas gift. But you guys also just started fat fit Fund TV, which the first video I see is gluten free peanut butter Cookies, which I'm very excited about. But you guys talk about meditation, lifestyle, uh yoga, all these different dance classes. You guys have a whole uh TV. You guys are like the Netflix of lifestyle. Can you talk about a little bit about that? Yeah, No, that's you know, that's exactitely the goal. We actually started

in content um. We were an online magazine UM for several years before launching the boxes UM, and so we really believe that we are storytellers at heart, and so part of that is, you know, you may get a fitness product in your box. Let's say, like the jump rope that we created with Venus Williams earlier this year, and so that you can love on the fab bit Fun TV and find a host of exclusive you know, jump rope workouts created by Venus that you can then do.

So we don't want to just send you products, you know, we you know our intention is to deliver happiness and while being to our members every season. Well, there you go. If you're listening to this and you want to jump on board the fab fit fund train, be sure to jump online and order your fab fit Fund box. Use code Help You'll get ten dollars off. Katie. This is awesome. It was great to kind of dive into a little bit more with you understand etiquette a little bit more

post break up with the fait fund boxes. But we appreciate taking the time, so lovely chatting with you guys. All right, take care, Thanks Katie, All right, and welcome back. As promised, we have Tracy Crossley in studio with us. Tracy is a behavioral relationship expert and she hosts her own podcast. But Tracy, we really want to dive into your knowledge of things like bread crumbing and the sort

and the like and all that kind of stuff. Okay, UM, but for our listeners out there, can you just give a quick introduction of yourself run us down on kind of what you've been up to your podcasts as well, and what qualifies you to be helping us with these dating terms. What qualifies you to be a behavioral relationship expert.

I became a coach, specifically a love coach, and at the time it became a love coach, that was probably the last thing in my life that was going on, and so it was kind of like taking my own journey of what I was going through with relationships, and I learned a lot on top of my training, and that's basically how I became a behavioral relationship expert. Um. Yeah, it sounds like an important title, doesn't it. It does. What is So? Does that mean that you can tell

how relationships going by body movement? That's what comes to my mind. So I can tell by basically, well, for example, Dean is rubbing my shoulders right now, what does that mean?

And now he's saying here okay, So um, basically I can tell just by somebody starting to talk, like they start telling me about their relationship, or they start telling me about um anything like if I were dating, which I'm not, but if I were dating UM, I would just be listening to the things that they say, and I can kind of tell, oh, you know what, this person is a victim, or this person is an avoidant, or this person's got anxiety, like you can just tell.

Part of me wants you to see if we can have you dissect our relationships, but the other part of me wants to stay as far as far away from that as possible. I think that's a fantastic idea. I'm an open book team, which one the first are to the second part both? So what her telling like looking at our body language towards our significant others in determining are is there any prep work that goes into this And as far as as far as you're you're being

able to read the person as they define their relationship. No, because usually people will start telling me things like I'm one of those people that I get on an airplane and I learned everybody's life story anyways, so people will just start divulging information. Do you like doing that or just is that kind of the vibe you give off. Um. I think it's both. I mean, I like doing it because I don't fly well, so it would always make me feel better about talking people. Yeah, I'm going down

with all these folks if you go down right. Yeah, that's a terrifying thought. But I understand quick side by real quick. I was on a flight yesterday from Houston to Los Angeles, and, uh, first time it's ever happened to me. I've been on a lot of airplanes, right, And all of a sudden, uh, like the flight attendant that rushes over and she goes, I smell something. Something is burning. I smell something, and I'm sitting next to an elderly couple and they start freaking out. They go,

oh my god, something is burning. And the flight attendant goes, I'm gonna get the captain. We're gonna the captain real quick. He's gonna come back here. I never heard from anything ever again, I didn't spell anything. So the airline was this. I'm not gonna name the airline. It sounds like the worst flight attendant I've ever heard. Why would you ever start a panic in the middle and an airplane? That's my point. I was blown away. I was like, Wow,

this this person reacted so poorly in the situation. Something really was burning. That's the last thing that you wanted. Yeah, you walk by, you smell, you try to defuse the situation. Then you go get the captain. He comes and smells. You don't run to the middle of the plane and say I spelled something bright And they were like looking at me there like is it you? Is it your phone? Is something burning over there? I was like, I don't smell anything. I was like sitting there compa but the

couple next to mispeaking out. Anyways, I'm sorry for the sidebar. I just wanted to show that story real quick, totally funny, because I don't know what I would have done in that case. Yeah. Yeah, I've a boarded a landing once.

That was the worst thing that's ever happened. Where you're descending and we were pretty close to the ground and then all of a sudden you could feel the plane drop a little bit because he kicked the engines in, and then you just start ascending and there was no announcements, and then finally about five minutes later, he came back and said, oh, sorry, there's a miscommunication with air traffic control. There's a plane already on our runway, so we're gonna

love around and do it again. It was like, okay, well, let's just make sure we're all same page before landing. Anyway, Tracy back to you. Sorry, Let's I want to have you dive into Jared's relationship a little bit obviously, well, and then dive into Dean's relationship. But before we do any of that, are you familiar with either of our relationships? Okay? Perfect, And we're not going to give you any information on that, right at least beforehand. Do you need my wife here

to really tell Well? No, I mean if you you just tell me anything about your relationship and we can just go from there. I might have questions for you. Let's Jared you start, I just tell you all right. So I married my wife three months ago. We've been together for almost two years, but we were friends for three and a half years before that. We met on

a show Code Bachelor in Paradise. Uh. She was very into me in the beginning, and I really cared about her very much so, but I was more in a confusion state at that point, and then I she would pursue and I was Withdrew for a while yep. And then whatever that means. Uh. And then a couple of years later, of course it's your age old story, she

starts dating someone else. I do some self reflecting and realized that I'm an idiots, something I've known for quite some time, but finally was able to cope with it. Take action, tell her how I felt, uh, and go after and win her heart, which is exactly what happened. Well, you already had her heart one from the get go. Uh. Yeah, I mean that sounds pretty obnoxious, but I guess it's true. Well, it sounds like she was probably still attached to some

degree best friends in between after you. Yeah, we would hang out. We would talk almost every day. Okay, Yeah, if it wasn't a healthy friendship, probably not. But you guys ended up together. So I'm curious when things changed for you. Um, obviously you were able to get married. Would you say that you still feel the same way that you did before you asked her to marry you? Yeah, so you've really been able to move into being securely attached with your wife. Oh yeah, I mean once we

got together, I was securely confident. I was confident that we were going to spend the rest of our lives together, just because I've always believed to that commit Listen, commitment is a choice. I think a lot of people forget that fact, and whenever something goes wrong with the relationship, they immediately go to, well, this isn't the person for me, and they forget that there's going to be bad times in a relationship that you have to overcome together as

a couple. So I think it's this might sound bad, but there's an aspect of love to me that's a conscious choice. That sounds horrible. No it doesn't, but it is a conscious choice. And I talk about choice all the time because people think, oh, I'm in this dysfunctional relationship. How did I get here? I can't believe I'm here? This person is a jerk, blah blah blah. And the thing is is that they're not taking any responsibility for

the choice that they've made to be there. And that's the thing where if you don't take responsibility for your choices, your whole life is going to be just something where you're fumbling around all the time going oh, look at this happened to me, Oh that happened to me. Yeah. I think a lot of times, especially in today's society, a lot of people lack accountability and want to point fingers and blame others for what's happening to them, when

in fact, the decision is up to you. And don't get me wrong, there's a lot of people in this world that unfortunately just don't have a leg up and need assistance. But there's also a lot of people that I think, like you said, good examples of somebody who's in a bad relationship and continues to be in a bad relationship and blames everybody else except for themselves because they won't take accountability with the fact that they're the ones making the choice to stay in this bad relationship.

I can ask you a question. So you said a couple of words, and we've touched on it and brief on this podcast before, But you called Jared an avoidant in the beginning stages of his relationship and now you're saying he's secure, but there's different So can you just talk about the like why you're using those words and what those words mean? Exactly? Sure? Absolutely So. Are you guys familiar with insecure attachment? I'm familiar with it, but

I saw you talk about it. I want the listeners to kind of have a I don't know, like a very solid version of it, right, but I want to hear, like obviously from an expert's pen. Can I hear what Dean thinks about it? And then can we get the actual definition? Sure, let's do it. As far as I understand that the sport attachment styles avoided, anxious, secure, maybe just those three. It depends on where you're looking for your information, because you can also find disorganized, fearful, you

can find anxious avoidant. So it just really depends, like I was anxious avoidant, Okay, So there's there could be hybrids or mixtures of them all. And it's funny because I kind of have looked back at my relationships in the past and I've always kind of uh diagnosedic self diagnosed them and kind of put a label on how I was in that relationship. Um. But like I said, I know obviously a very surface level version of all of it. So can you just kind of describe it

the listeners a little and obviously to us as well. Sure. So when it comes to insecure attachment. Um. This was something by a psychologist in the sixties named John Baldy who came up with the theory of it, and basically was talking about attachment style that infants have with their initial caregivers, usually mom or dad or whoever that happens

to be. And in some cases where you would have a parent who, let's say, wasn't emotionally available, you know, like they could be putting a roof over your head, taking care of you all of that, but they may

not have been emotionally available. They may have been and very um closed off, and so you would develop an insecure attachment style, you know, where you might avoid mom if she came in the room, or you wouldn't miss her, or you'd hide it because there's ambivalent to I forgot about that style, but anyways, so you would have all of these different reactions. And the thing is that you carry this stuff forward you. It becomes part of your

belief system. So if you believe let's say that, um, you have to be perfect to earn love as a kid, like you get straight a's or you're an overachiever of some sort, right, so this is how you associate love as this hard thing to get, and so you come forward into your relationships as an adult. And there's a lot of people that work super hard. And I'm not talking about hard at the positive things in the relationship,

like really coming closer together, working through problems. I'm talking about creating problems, creating issues, and making it hard for them, so they're always in a state of struggle. So that was like my little abridged version of childhood to adulthood how it affects you. But all these different you know, like avoidant, that's somebody who usually avoids emotional intimacy. Just that's what they do. They're the people that you can't

cuss on here, right, sure, go ahead, we'll bleep it out. Okay, Well, now I I mean I I refer to them as the accidental coals in life because basically they're the people they get nailed for. Oh my gosh, you know, we went out kind of like the whole bread crumbing thing. We went out, and then they disappeared, and then they

showed back up, and then they you know, that whole thing. Right, So people that are avoidant can end up in that situation where they go out with somebody and they're like, oh my god, this is so great, so awesome, and then they start feeling, you know, feelings that are scary right, like I've been down this road before. I don't know

what's going to happen. I can't get too close to this person and they start to back off, and they may, you know, they fade out, and then they disappear, and maybe the other person thinks they've been ghosted, and then what ends up happening is they show back up because now they're not so afraid anymore. Maybe they've been thinking about that person going you know, Oh, they were pretty cool. I think I wanna, you know, give it another try, see for me, And I think I don't want to

speak for Dean, but I think Dean might relate. I'm that way. I'm avoiding, but I'm not avoidant because of my childhood. I feel like I'm avoiding because there are a lot of times within a relationship. Um, I feel like I'm not good enough. And I'm not trying to

make this a pity party. But in terms of I think, especially coming off the show, you get a certain uh, people get an idea of who you are, and specifically with my wife, I think she had an idea of who I was and had this built up idea of who I actually was where you just can't live up to this expectation. So I think for me, I was always afraid to jump into a relationship because I always felt like I couldn't live up to a lot of people's expectations. Uh, Dean, do you feel like you're similar

in that way? Why? I would always, Like I said earlier, I classified myself in past relationships on my attachment style, and I always classified myself as avoidant. And it's just very clear and the way that I act in the way that always been. But why do you think you're avoiding I don't know. Childhood trauma. Yeah, I mean there's probably a million different reasons we are the way that we are. But like you said, I think a lot of it was. But you had a great upbringing, like

with your incredible parents, fantastic, very lucky. I would imagine you can. You can have the same results through very different ways of getting there, right, you can, And I will say that you don't have to actually have had a lot of trauma as a kid. Like I have clients where their parents were overprotective and they never learned to trust themselves. They didn't, you know, like they would want to go do something and then mom or dad would be like Oh no, don't do that because it

made the parent nervous. Right, because overprotective people that's what they do, So that takes the power of choice away from the kid, and the kid neever learns trust themselves, which also goes back to their value. Like, how am I getting value if I'm never achieving anything unless my mom or dad are telling me, yeah, that's the right thing to do. Do that, don't do this, right? So what do you suggest? I guess that's my question as

far as which part. Well, you say a lot of our morals or our insecurities come from a very young age. So do you suggest to parents out there raising their kids in a different way. I don't know, because that's a curious question because you say that, uh, like being an overprotective parent can lead to certain certain insecurities, or just like being a parent that really invests um in

their kids schooling. I don't know. It's hard to really uh specifically pinpoint, but like you said, like a lot of parents put a lot of value on school work, right, So if a kid comes home, I remember I came home and I would get sees a lot of times. Possibly DS wasn't the greatest student and I remember my parents being super disappointed. I'm gonna but that's just like

every parent, so like we shouldn't change that. Right, You're not going to be a perfect human being as a parent, and nor are you as the product of your childhood going to be perfect either. So there are definitely certain expectations that parents have. They don't want you to go run out in the middle of the street and get hit by a bus either, so you know they might grab your arm or go, oh my god, yell at

you right something. So to me, it's knowing your belief system because this all impacts your belief system, Like you're talking about your own value. So those kind of things you've got to know, all right, I believe these things about me. That takes self awareness. You've got to be aware of what you say, what you do, how you feel, because the more aware that you are, you can do something about changing it. Because I'm a believer, and in my own life, I've changed a lot of these beliefs.

I was an avoidant, you know, for many years, so I am not that way anymore. I'm happily married and I look at how I am, like even if I had the tendency to want to go, you know, I need to kind of get some space here. So two things. One, I'm lucky because my husband is we're both like totally independent, but you know, interdependent, you call it, right. But I

don't feel like I'm trying to avoid him. I don't try to avoid things that if I catch myself like with old behavior, I'll go, Okay, what are you doing? What are you doing? Nope, get closer. I mean that's always the answer. Get closer because if you get closer, not clinging, but you get closer, you're establishing intimacy and

you're also breaking patterns of behavior that you up. It takes emotional action to break patterns, and that's I was gonna ask I was gonna ask you a question in the same way, how do we uh tip back the scales of time and and focus on the bad parts of our attachment styles and improve them? Because I would say, what we all strive to be secure, to have a secure attachment style, right, that's what we would all want.

So for someone that's been avoided in his whole life, either your Jared or someone that's has anxious or ambivalence attachment styles, you're saying, basically self awareness is the most important thing self awareness, because you have to start somewhere. You've got to know what you're doing. Most people, and you may notice this in yourselves. You might be other oriented. You might be paying attention to what everybody else is

doing and deciding how you're going to react to them. Right, Like, if I look at, uh, you know, any relationship and I'm concerned with how they see me or what they're doing, or I want them to act a certain way towards me, then I would act in other ways to promote that. But when you catch yourself doing it, you're not being authentic, You're not really being who you are. You're just trying

to manipulate a situation. So when you notice you're doing things like that, stop, just check yourself and stop and go what am I doing? I need to stop doing that? Why? Because I want to be securely attached because it feels better, and so it's like unabashed openness. It's kind of what you're saying. I am saying that. I'm saying also to speak your truth. Right, So you have a thirty day boot camp. I have, um, well, I have a thirty day emotional cleanse, which is a digital program that you

can take and you know, it's really great. I think that people have changed their lives. In fact, that's what I've heard. Um. But I also have a workshop coming up um December six, and that is going to be on bread crumbing and stopping the bread crumbing because people keep taking bread crumbs their whole lives without even knowing it. They just complain about it. So let's talk about some of those terms. Well, yeah, I have some of the

terms actually brought up on my computer right now. And bread crumbing for all of you out there are help by secuit dators who don't know what breadcumbing is. It is when somebody seems to be pursuing you, but really they have no intention of being tied down to a relationship. It might be difficult to tell in their earliest ages, especially if you met online, because they receive a series

of text that suggests they are interested. However, it soon becomes clear that this person has no intention of following through with anything they've said. They just like leaving you bread crumbs like a trail and Hansel and Gretel to stir you along. That is from business insider dot Com shout out to Business insider, string you along, rust you along? What did I say? Is it stir you along? I said,

stir you along? Wow, I'm an idiot anyway. Uh So, Tracy, you say that you do a worship on a workshop on bread crumbing and how to stop people from bread crumbing. You m hm basically tell us, well, you you can't stop Okay, you can't stop people from doing whatever the hell they're gonna do. They're just gonna do what they do. You can stop participating in this though, Okay. I mean that's going back to the whole power of choicing that we were talking about before. You you have a choice.

So one of the things is when it comes to bread crumbing is to have some kind of, as I said, an awareness that you're unhappy, that you're in a situation

that you probably have anxiety about. Because with bread crumbing, you think somebody's gone and then they show back up, and then you notice that it becomes a pattern, right back and forth, back and forth, call it yo, yo, call it whatever you want, and you start to become anxious most of the time because you know this person is going to show back up, you know it, and you can't seem to let go of it like you're stuck. You're one of those people that your friends are like,

what are you doing? Why can't you get out of the situation? What's wrong with you? And so that's how I mean. I help people by helping them change their beliefs, their patterns, how they basically think and feel, so that they end up feeling a lot lighter and they can make better decisions. Can you give us one example of how someone might get themselves out of bread crumbing. I know it's not just one thing that will change everything,

but can you give us a small sample. Sure, when you go out on a date, first of all, make sure that you're in reality. A lot of times, especially I don't want to say women, but women will go out on a date with somebody. Um men do it too, because I work with people. I work with men and women, and so they'll go on a date and they'll think, oh my god, I'm like so into this person. They don't know this person, and they develop a fantasy about the person. You know, they see themselves writing off into

the sunset with them, so they're not in reality. And that's usually when you can tell, because you're already living in the future. Somewhere. So my you know, my advice is always to bring it back to the present moment, especially if you're in one of these cycles, to like even past the first date and let's say you get caught up in that, You've got to become aware of holy crap, you know, I'm putting up with this. What

am I thinking? Well, I'm thinking about them getting their you know, their act together and coming back like what you did with your wife, like she probably on some level was hoping you were going to finally wake up one day and go, yeah, I want to be with you. Yeah. So so it really it works like that, but a lot of times it doesn't have a happy ending. Usually it has, you know, just this ongoing bread crumbing and

it never goes anywhere. Well. I think for me specifically, I had to just let go of my ego um for a little while. I think what what you were talking about We've talked about in this podcast before, to where it's like the less you know about someone, especially early on in dating whatever it might be, is you have such a small amount of information on them, so so you know like five percent who they are, then you tend to fill in with what you hope for

them to be. Yeah, exactly. And then so that's obviously you're able to glorify them put up on this pedestal because you have no idea who they are. You just you're assuming these things. And then well what I always noticed too is obviously the longer you get to know them, the more they start to fill it up themselves, and then less things tend to fall in how you expect them to fall into place, right, And that could be really disappointing, you know, for people if they are not

allowing a natural process and dating. Because one of the things too, people don't speak their truth. They come to a date, they want to impress that person, they hide things that are important to them, and then they end up you know, being either walking on egg shells for the whole relationship, never admitting to some things that are very true for them, or you know, they end up fighting at about it and then it turns into a point of contention or many points of contention. Yeah, I

will say this, So I'm in a relationship. Now, I have a girlfriend. We've been dating for five months. Hold your applause please everyone, Um, yeah, thank you, mark uh. And I will say that this is the first. I've always been like super honest, but this time I've been like overly honest, to the point where I'm like arring all my dirty laundry out as early as I possibly could, because I'm like, this is who I am, this is

who I'm gonna be. Obviously I can like grow moving forward, but like this is all the bad stuff you'll ever have to know about me. Um. And as soon as I started like talking so openly and freely about those things, I noticed there's a lot more, uh strengthen the relationship that I have now with my girlfriend versus before I was like ashamed of certain things, and so maybe I

wasn't telling like the full truth on some of that. Um. And like you said, I was always kind of walking like on edge a little bit, thinking that I wouldn't, to Jared's point, live up to the expectations of the person that I'm dating, because like I'm kind of selling myself to be a little bit more than I really am. Um. So I agree with what you're saying, and it's nice and it's like a liberating feeling. It's it's obviously because then you have the person that's liking you for you

rather than the person that you're at least put on exactly. Yeah, so let me ask you boths. Is that something we should all do moving forward? I think so, to let go of any expectations and just fully be yourself from the moment you meet someone. Yeah. Well, I think I told you this before too. When I was on the show the first this pastime, I was like, yeah, I've got no friends, I'm super broke, I'm homeless. I got this ridiculous. I like what. I undersold myself to the

point where Jared called it manipulation. I see where he's I never said manipulation. You're like, well, it's it's a kind of manipulation. I was like, yeah, it kind of is, but like it's like on the other side of it, it's like I was like being like, I'm a real head right like that, I have no friends, I have no prospects. I definitely never said manipulation. I would never call you a manipulation. No, I know, but you it was like you were just kind of spoken, like driving

a debate. You were not sometimes I like driving debate. Yeah. Um, anyways, my point is I undersold like the crap out of myself, and it obviously works in my favorite So I agreed to your point. To your point, uh, the more, I guess you just are willing to share about yourself and then you kind of create that secure attachment. And I don't think that in this relationship that I'm in now that I haven't avoid an attachment style. I think both

of us are secure. Um. And it's the first time I've ever been in a relationship where it's been so secure attachment style wise. And I think to your point, it's to think the openness in the honesty from the get go. I think that's a big part of it. And you've got to actually care about yourself enough to do that. You know, that's the thing when you don't care about yourself enough, and that's again a belief, and

you're doing things to avoid having that. I would say that love for yourself, then you're looking for it from someone else anyways, and so you're needing them to kind of fill an empty hole. Um. So you also have a podcast called deal with It on Apple Podcasts. Is this more of the topic you talk about? It? Is? I am? I've been doing it twice a week and on Tuesday's specifically. It's called the journey of attachment and

it is all about attachment. Yeah, listen to that. Oh, I listened to an episode on the Way and it's You're very positive. I was telling you that earlier. You're very positive way thinking you're optimistic. It's very comforting to listen to. That's awesome, and I, you know, I feel like it is because I've lived it, so I know where I'm coming from, and I've helped people in the last eleven years and getting out of these situations and

getting into healthy relationships. I feel like I feel like we need to have you on for more than just a twenty or thirty minute segment. That's a segment at some point because I feel there's there's a lot of overlap between what we talked about on a regular basis, and it sounds like what you're incredibly well versed in as well. Um, but we do have to we have to wrap up. Yeah. Yeah, but Tracy, we want to thank you so much for coming and we really appreciate it. Tracy.

So Tracy Cross to everybody. You can check out of her podcast on Apple Podcasts everywhere. It is called Deal with It. You also have your thirty Day Cleans, which is online because on your website you go immediately and you have to take a quiz, which I took the quiz. It's a little intimidating some of the questions, but it forces you to be honest. Like Dean said, you have to be honest from the get go or you're never gonna grow. Uh. And then you also have a boot

camp coming up? I do I have? Um, well, I have the boot camp which actually starts this week, and it will kick your butt. It's basically all about trans warming these beliefs in a very short period of time because usually have to work with people for years and when you can cut it down and I cut it down to ten weeks and it will change your life. So yeah, and where can people get that? They can go to my website. You can find that there, you can find the workshop there, you can find everything. It's

all there. And then Tracy Crossley dot com. Yes, I'm saying your last name right, you are. I was so confident in the beginning I didn't even ask you. I was like, her last name is Crossley. That's how I'm saying. It's very phonetic. Um. Anyways, Stacy, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it. We'll be on the lookout for you. Will be sure to tune into your podcast again. For the listeners, it's called the Deal with It to be sure to check that out. Where have

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you to email us your own stories. Email us at I Suck It Dating at I heeart media dot com. We've got a couple of good ones today. Mark is going to read them. I'm not sure which ones he's gonna pick. I got three in front of me right now, all of equal quality, and let's get into it. Four more greeds. I just want to say, if you're not following they help us like a dating Instagram, what do you do? Well? Come on, guys, I know for a fact that more people listen to this podcast than follow

us on social media. And I gotta be honest, I've been putting some good content up there. You've been doing really good. I'm I'm I'm I'm happy with myself. So a dating podcast group on help my such a dating on Instagram. This is controversial what I'm going to say, but of all of the people that we do podcasts with, I believe Jared is the most dedicated to his podcast.

I do. I believe that because like like with like with Tracy, you listen to her podcast, you read a bunch of her stuff, like you really prep for the guests were most of our podcast to It's no offense because they're very busy people. But they come in there and go, who what what do they do? Great? And then we tell them and then they go do it.

But you really put the time in. Well, I will never take for granted having an I Heart Radio podcast, like the idea if you would have told, you know, thirteen year old Jared that he would have a podcast on iHeart Radio in the same studio that Ryan Seacres, the host of American Idol, records in in the morning. I mean, you just can't take those things for granted. So, like you know, I just want to make sure we do a deal. Dugon's work hard, help I suck at dating.

People Choice Awards. Here we come and mark to your point. I'm really thank you for saying things. Glad one of the co hosts of this podcast really cares about it. You well, you know what it is. Dean's here's the thing that I I've noticed, Dean is so naturally talented. I'm not joking. I'm not trying to boost you up, but you're just so good at being able to articulate

yourself and and and say your thoughts. You are very good at this day and that is true I appreciate the compliment after the dick, and so I'll take it. But also, you did the show by yourself for a long time, and that's hard. Hard, it really is. Yeah, it's funny too because that was before I really I don't know, it doesn't matter, but let's get into all right. Also, I want to put out Jared said del do agence. I thought that was very funny. What did I say? Deligence?

English is hard for me. We have an anonymous email. She was at a bar with a guy she's been unbumbled. She thought it was pretty boring, but whatever. So the bartender bring us their drinks and she looks up and she sees her ex boyfriend on a date with one of her best friends. I've never been so shook in my life, she says her best friend Caesar freezes. I look at my day and I say, you know what, this was chill, but I gotta bounce and I left.

But now I don't know what to do. Like, she knew how insane my ex boyfriend was, she knew how awful our breakup was, but now she's going out with him. What do I do? Seven? Oh? I for some reason and more upset with him than I am with her. But how does she handle this situation? Right? Why is she more upset with him? But that's a good question.

But that's another That's one of those things like sometimes when you're you catch your spouse kind of flirting with somebody or more mad at the girl than you are with your spouse. Like I'm not sure what the mentality is there, but it happens. There's like a weird justification your brain does the person closer to you, you find more excuses for Yeah, I guess because I'd be way more mad at the best friend. What are you doing?

It is funny too, because it sounds like if obviously she was talking to her friend all the time about how bad this boyfriend or hers was. Now they're broken up, but now she's on a date with him. That's crazy. I think that she's kind of mixed. She should be more upset with her friend than she should be with her x r X doesn't owe her anything. He can go on any dates he wants with whoever he wants for that friend. Doesn't sound like she's very much your friend.

If she was, like she was laying and wait, like she knew this was teetering, and she waited for her opportunity to move in. So let's help answer her question. What does she do? She talks to the friend obviously and asked her, what the hell are you doing? I don't know. That's what I would do. I would say, it probably sounds like that friendship is just about to be over, but it's her best friend. That's how she's saying it in the email. It doesn't sound like the

best friend. It doesn't sound like the other person feels the same way, because if you had a best friend that just broke up with a crazy X, you wouldn't be going on a date with that person. Yeah, feelings for this guy while you were with him, totally, I think, Jared, I think you probably are giving the best advice that you know. Communication. You should talk to her, but I don't know, maybe just move on. I don't know. I think it's never talked to your best friend again? Well

she isn't it. I'm the best friend to talk to her, communicating like at some point they're going to talk, right Like the best friend does not know that she saw her on the date with her X. She does know she locked eyes. They locked eyes. She froze and O god an anonymous fled. Maybe they'll never talk. I don't know they should. They're gonna talk at some point, so I think you should just reach out to her. And

I've kind of talked about this before. One of my old uh, one of my ex girlfriends, had hooked up with my best friend once and then I started dating her, and my best friend got really upset once he found out. But but we had gone on like five dates before he ever found out, and I guess I never told him, but he was my best friend. But it's a little different because him and her were never like actually boyfriend girlfriend that never really dated. They just like kind of

hooked up a couple of times or whatever. Right, So I've been this girl's friend who is now dating her ex, and I'm still best friends with the guy that I was best friends with back then. So it's kind of a tricky situation. Like maybe she's having fun like being sneaky about potential relationship and kind of like you know, moving through the shadows, but also it's kind of messed up, especially if you were like constantly sharing how crappy this guy was with you and how you you're probably like

devastated and sad and heartbroken. That never happened in my situation, so I can't speak on that. But if if any of that happened, and now this person is still dating the guy that you just broke up with, that's cause for concern. Yeah, I agree. I think Mark, you hit it on the head. Where this girl like this guy, she was dating her friend, they broke up. He asked her out because they're like with some flirtations. Yes, yes, she might have moved in and asked him out. I

mean that's I think that changes the entire conversation. Oh yeah, we don't know that, because maybe it's the other thing. Maybe the boy friend whilst they were together and your best friends hot, oh boy, if I ever have an opportunity, I'm moving in on that. Maybe you're right. Maybe the onus on this one is on the boy. Sounds like you're out a boyfriend and you're out a friend. Yeah, I think so. As long as she said it's one of her best friends. You have other best friends. Yeah,

you got plenty, You got options, kind of options. Girl, we gotta wrap it up. I'm sorry. Guys, Ben and Ashley were here, and you know they get more listens than such. It's truest statement. Twenty people Choice Awards and we won't get kicked out of the studio. People. The sub army is gonna tear this place. Marks are one email today. Because of that, I have one more proposition for the listener out there. If you listen to this podcast as well as Almost Famous every week, stop listening

Almost don't do that. That's my wife's podcast. Don't say that. Team anyways, Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Help I Suck at Dating. Jared. I love being a studio with you. Thanks for your love being in studio with you two. We need to do this more if we really we need to be in studium are often. Thanks for sitting through this with me. Big thank you to our guests Tracy Crossley. Be sure

to check out her podcast, Deal with It. Big thank you to Katie from fund for calling and talking to us for a little bit. Big thank you too, Anonymous for sharing her story about her crazy ex boyfriend and her emails are from Anonymous. I wish we had time to answer more, but unfortunately we do that. Um Also for the Fat Fit Fun, use our code help for ten dollars off. That's right and actually is here. So maybe if she says hi, we can say that she's

a special guest star. Maybe that'll help you know, get boost hire. A special People's Choice Award is surly Arest lock it in. Thank you so much for listening. Be sure to tune in next week, where maybe we will suck just a little bit less. Follow Help I Suck at Dating on I Heart Radio, or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.