Attachment Theory with Kendall Long

Dating has been around. And I know it's a bit of an embellishment because technically we've only been doing it for like twenty eight months, but it started in four calendar years and that it's definitely the longest commitment I've ever had in my life as anything. Absolutely, I'm sure I've been in and out, up and down throughout the whole four years. But you know, I'm proving on my own. I've been with Vanessa, i'veing with Jared, but here we are back in studio. It's my first time in studio

in two thousand twenty. If you haven't listened to the last week's episode, feel free to do that. We checked in on me. I think I called him from London. Yes, and uh, I kind of updated you guys on my injury and I guess we can kind of continue to that as the recovery goes on. Joy to see the scar real quick, chared, Yeah, it looks it looks like a tattoo. It was. Yeah, I kind of like which one is. Millipede would be a much more I feel like it would have more so so for the audience

who can't see it. It's right above the so it's on his right thigh, on the right side, right above his Instagram verified tattoo. I got that. It's about i'd say a good four and a half inches five inches long, six inches six inches six inches. That doesn't seem like six inches. I can care. I think you're rounding up and about your six inches. I mean, if that's six inches,

I'm feeling pretty good about it. It's funny because I was laying in the hospital bed and it was all bandaged up, and it was like the day after surgery, and the doctor comes in and I was asking about the incision and everything, and he goes, yeah, it's six centimeters long. We did three screws into plate in your hip. And then after a couple of days when I could take the bandage off, I was like, that's not six centimeters long, because six centimeters like an inch and a half.

And I was like, that's surprisingly small. Uh turns out at six inches long. And it turns out they put five screws into plate in my hip. So I don't know if it was like a communication thing. Did they ask your consent beforehand? The I feel like that's so invasive, Yes, very invasive. They did ask my consent, but I always like hopped up on pain killers when they asked, They're like five screws, Like oh wait, no, no no, no, three? But you know how excused you want to? Yeah? I

think I think I mentioned last week. But when they were doing all that stuff, like I was like hopped up on pain killers and they were like, yeah, we're doing this, We're doing this, we're doing this, can sign this form and I'm like okay, And then I woke up a couple of hours later. But I don't want to talk about me too much today because we obviously have Kendall in studio. She's gonna be our co host and happy to be here. Yeah, we've got a great

episode for you guys. We've got Kendall. Obviously we want to catch up with her. And Jared was just in San Francisco doing Almost Famous Live. I want to hear more about that. Yeah, we were in San Frantico's past weekend. We had an almost I didn't Ashley and Ben had an Almost Famous live podcast. It was a lot of fun, Like four people came out. But the reason I bring it up is because when I went on stage, because

I was one of the guests. I went out after Derek and I got on stage, and obviously I'm shamelessly plugging this podcast, telling everybody to listen, to subscribe, comment, follow us on Instagram. And then somebody from the audience goes, help, I suck at dating. So then I started spreading like, yes, help, I suck at dating. And so I started doing it, and I got at least of the people to start chanting, help I suck at dating. How How great would it have been if while you were on stage chanting it.

I walked in through the back door and started chanting and getting the back of the crowd riyals And that's pretty much my purpose in life. Mob angry sucky mob. And then there was a section afterwards where we did like a little meet and greet, and at least fifteen people came up to me and we're like, hey, I'm part of Stuck Army. Yes, it's an army, it's a movement. How many were how many were in attendance? Like twenty thousand?

That's good, it's a lot. It's like it's a starting point, Dean. Okay, but it was pretty cool when people came off and started, you know, commenting on how much I love the podcast, and it was a really cool moment. We do need to, I'm sorry, we need to change that sound effect. It sounds like an octopus like tentacle. Yeah right, I picture like suck. Yeah. But what I think we should do is we should make one of Dean yelling like sucked army assemble. I'll be pretty good. Maybe like a vacuum

cleaner just turning on real quick. Oh, anyway, we'll work on changing that sound. But yeah, anyway, back to you, Kendy Kendall, thank you for joining us. You know what's funny I mentioned the last time you're on this podcast, but the first time I ever co hosted this podcast was with you. Yes, I remember, and that was long before I was a staple on the podcast Thank You Amy has your own podcast to down to Date This is true down to date and help other people find

you're main competition. I know, bring it on. We brought you here today. It's actually to murder you. Yeah, you're gonna die, tell us about it. Yeah. So basically I faciltate a first date between two strangers in the podcast studio and um, I act as like a third wheel, fly on the wall, and UM, I try to bring it on in the podcast studio. It's it's pretty fun get on the podcast. How do you get these people

to come on and go on the first date? Um? Friends, friends of friends, like literally anybody can go on and UM, it's been fun to see like how people act during like a first date that I control. And so how do you match them up? Do you? Kind of? Usually most of this time, yeah, you don't get to know the person beforehand, not really. Sometimes I help my friends go on, but I feel like the best kind of

relationships are the ones you don't expect. So I like to put people in a room together and just let it all hang loose and just go for it. Sometimes it works, Yeah, it does. You had any success yet? Um, we've had some people who have gone on multiple dates afterwards. I'm not sure if there's any commitment going on yet, but I think it's a pretty hyper spil. Season two is four. You can follow up with all the guests. Season two. I want to I really want to be

an officiate for a wedding someone as officiate. You'd like to officiate a wedding. I'd like to officiate a wedding. I think that'd be kind of cool, and that would be a wedding of two people that met on down the date. Hopefully that's what your accept any other wedding, Yeah, I think you should do like a smaller version of Bachelor, Like you bring two people in that don't know each other that you've done no research on, and they either get engaged by the time the podcast ends or they

go their separate ways. There's nowhere in between. Can I also add to this, uh this this Sprain serving Sally bring it on, maybe bringing one guy and then bringing like four girls all on the mics, and every ten minutes the guy eliminates one girl until there's one girl left. So savage, it's pretty savage, but that's the nature of the game. That's true, like almost like a blind dating kind of podcast games of podcasts. Again, we're not telling you how to run your podcast here, no, but I

like these ideas. Keep them coming out, steal all of them. Give you no credit. You do this help I second dating one episode? Well yeah, okay maybe, and then beyond the podcast, you just got a dog. I did. He's a little weenie, Um, a little weenie dog. Yeah, I bought six inches. His name is on a good Day Um, and he's great. He's like a cuddler. He'll cuddle me like every night, and um he hates everybody else but me.

So it's perfectly what made you want to get a dog? Um. I've always wanted to rescue, and I've um fostered a lot of dogs. So I felt like I really wanted to make the commitment of actually like saving a dog. UM. And it always breaks your heart to have to leave them, So I figured, why not, it's go for it. Then you just picked this one. I'm so with the rescue how to go about? Um so rescued from Bunny's Buddies,

which a lot of people are familiar with. UM, and they sent me kind of a grainy photo of him and they said he was going to die in two days, and I was like, I will saythan yes. So um, you can't say no to that, so you know, I'm glad that I didn't and so um yeah. A month later they flew him to America and he is now an American pup. Where from He's in South Korea? Nice and what's his name again, Dashio Dasio. He's a little nuttie. So I've got a real, real soft spot for dockxins.

When I was a kid, we had a miniature long haired docksins. The long haired ones are a little feisty. She was really yappy, but just ever since having her, her name was Soubrette, I've always had a soft spot for them. My roommate hates docksins. Like if he dates a girl and it ends up she has a docks in, he like immediately severs all ties of communicating. I mean, well, docksins are very They're fiercely loyal and like highlighting on

the fierce part. I feel like he's just he has been abused in previous homes, so I feel like he has a distrust for humans, but he loves other dogs, so it just perfect. How can you not like other dogs, he's he First he was a little bit hesitant to warm up, but then, um, he did really well. Now he does really well. Well, how do how do take to you? Automatically he loved me. You know, it just makes me feel a lot better about who I am. You know, like when a dog doesn't like you, you

take it personally. Yeah. The fact that he just automatically loved me and I I printed on me right away, it makes me feel really great. You agree to adopt Pistachio before you've even ever met him? Yes? Yeah, And well let's say, for obviously worst case scenario, they bring him to America and then, for whatever reason doesn't work out with you and him, then would you bring it to a foster shelter here in Los Angeles? For me, that

wasn't ever an option. Um. I feel like, once you commit to life, you have to just dedicate, you know. So for me, it was like all I mean, right now, he's through training. He had his first training class today. He got so many little hot dogs. He was very very proud of him. Um, so yeah, I mean we're getting better. I mean he's not. He definitely has a

lot of behavioral issues. He has to work out, but um, I'm along for the long ride, you know, to bounce off your idea about once you commit to a life. My sister and her husband rescued a dog, and uh they he had a heart murmur, which was we found out as soon as they got I think from a breeder, I can't remember exactly, and it was pretty rescue, I cant remember. But they found out they had a heart murmur, but it was a very low level one, wasn't gonna

cause any health issues. Two weeks later they brought into the event, found out it was the worst level heart murmur you could possibly have as a dog, and the dog would live only until six months unless they have heart surgery, which would have cost them six thousand dollars. They found this out two weeks after they got the checkbook, so of course they had to have the conversation, do we go forward with this and spend this kind of money to save the dog, or after two weeks, do we,

you know, give him away and get another one. And of course they paid the six thousand dollars and now Boston is a very healthy, long living dog. You would have told that story if didn't pay the six Out of absolutely I knew where this story was going. Yeah, you think I was gonna end that story and be like, yeah, so they gave him the dog, and the dog probably did now, but now they have a healthy little bijon uh named Rascal. No uh, but yeah, that would have

been a dark turn to say the last. My brother has got a wing too. By the way, before we move on, I want to show Kendle this real quick. So Kendall reach out to me after my surgery and gave me a bit of advice and I went out and oh, my gosh, you're reading it. I have not cracked it yet. Okay, Well, you know the original plan was to read about a hundred pages of this book. Kind of recommended to get the book. What's the name of this book? Will Blow your Mind? Journeys at the

Extremes of Science. It's an amazing, amazing book. It definitely does blow your mind. Why did you recommend it? Um? Because it's one of those things that kind of takes you away from your current situation. What is it about? Well, it's about mind blowing things, right, yeah? Okay, so well yeah, it's about it's basically about um, things that happen in the real world. That you can't believe happen. It's just

so mind blowing. Um So, a lot about like space, a lot about just like like how we see color, just in general, like things we take for granted every day. Is that the kind of thing like what my blue is could be your red? No, I've heard this before. I don't necessarily believe in that. I feel like, Okay, So our eyes are so limited in the sense that we can only see a certain amount of colors because

of the amount of cones that we have. Um So, if you look like a Mansais shrimp, they have like twenty three cones, so they can see like two million, thousand, bozillion colors compared to how many colors we can see. Um So, that kind of stuff blows your mind. So if somebody's color blind, do they only have two cones? Yeah? Well so, so there's two different kinds of color blind. So there's one color it's like become like a science podcast, it's great. Um So, there's one kind of color blind

where you have a lack of cones. And usually men are the ones that have that kind of color blind symptom because I haven't one less chromosome um than women. Um but then there's another one where you're, well, actually it crosses, it blends colors. So those are the ones where you see people putting on those glasses and they're like, oh wow, I can see colors now, you know. So

there's just it depends. But there's been like studies where they have like injected like red cones into like chimpanzees eyes and people not people, and the chimpanzee can actually start seeing like red. So it's pretty fascinating. The crazy thing to think about that. And sorry, and she's ready to go, We're gonna bring her in before we do that, though, I do want to say the crazy thing to think about to your point, you said, mantis shrimp have uh ten x more cones in their eyes than we do.

It's like it's it's colors that we can't even fathom what they are, right, Like their rainbow is like extra thick, yeah, you know. I mean it's usually variants of the same colors. I mean, I guess it's like the best that we can do, like variants of the same color as we can see, but like different kinds of magenta are different, you know. So well, we'll talk about more of that

maybe affair anyway. Next up, we have Dr Tracy McMillan coming in and we are going to dive into a little bit bit of a bit about her and what she has to offer for our Suck Army. She has a lot of thoughts, actually here she has. She says that men are way more into relationships than women's terms of commitment. That's false. She says that you should have the baby before you get marry. She's pro arranged marriages. Interesting. She has a lot of interesting thoughts that we need

to get into it. She was on Oprah. I feel like that's that's impressive as well. That was super impressive. Point is you're not gonna want to miss it. So stay tuned, will be right back. Welcome back, Suck Army. To help I suck at dating. We have a very special guest who is in studio with us right now. She is a television writer, relationship expert, and author of three books, including Why You're Not Married Yet and her ted talk. The Person You Really Need to Marry has

more than twelve million views. It is doctor Tracy McMillan, except I'm not a doctor. We're gonna call you doctor anyways. Yeah, people do people on Twitter, it says right there on the front, doctor Tracy McMillan. People on Twitter decided I was a doctor on the weekend. Just accept it. It's somebody called me a doctor. I and Dr Jared Haven m d on whatever you think I practiced, all right, Well, Tracy, thank you so much for coming in having me. I

love being here, of course. So actually, Mark was expressing some of your views before you came in, which I think the audience would love to know more about. One example is men are way more committed to relationships. Okay, well, okay, that's probably a little bit simplified over something. So here's the things what we do here help us. That's okay, that's okay. So one of the things about, for example,

women filed for divorce the time. Women are the people who filed for divorce, So you gotta wonder why is that.

I think part of the reason is that when women are unhappy in a marriage or a relationship, because it's kind of goes for a relationship, they're way more unhappy than when a man is unhappy in a marriage because like dudes can compartmentalize in way days that women either kenna will not will not and Also, there's a lot of research about how when men are committed to the relationship and open to being what's called influenced by their wives,

this would go for the girlfriends to the relationship is much happier now it doesn't work the other way. Well, my explanation on that, I think my on my idea would be that guys are and I'm speaking as a

guy so I can say this. You know, we might be a little stubborn, maybe a little, So I think guys are just I think also a lot of relationships that I've seen, women are the ones who are not afraid to speak about their and where a guy will just if something's wrong, he'll just handle itpartment compartmentalized and and and not want to deal with the situation. That's right. Women, Um, well, this is all research. Um. Women are the people who bring up problems in a relationship like much more than

men do. So I think the thing about being influenced, what it means is, as to explain Dean Um, So basically, to be influenced means you listen to your partner, you take in what they say, and you allow yourself to be changed by it, as opposed to just oh, there's words raining down on my ears. Nothing is going to change in my heart or in my behavior. So when a man is open to being influenced by his wife or girlfriend, they those couples report a much higher satisfaction

in their relationships. Now, when women are open to being influenced by man, it doesn't change the outcome of the happiness quotient. It's really a guy thing, because I think it's it works the other way. When a guy is not open to being influenced in his relationship, it makes a lot of unhappiness, very unhappy partner influence what do you mean? Influence on what like to be taking in what they're hearing, to be moved by what they're hearing, to be willing to change, learn, but doesn't cover the

gambit like change emotionally change. So if you say, okay, for for example, in one of my marriages, because guys, you know I've been married a lot, right, okay? How many times? Three times? Okay? Okay, So judging by your math, I'm just gonna crunch the numbers real quickly. You filed for divorce twice out of those three times, All three times I was just I looked down in your hand.

I didn't say rings. I like, I think it's three times no. But the thing about it is is that even the third time he was like iffy and the but he would have stayed married. See, he was okay to have do we swear on this show? Okay, he was okay to have bullsh going on and be married. He was just like, why do you have to leave? It's just Bill, And I'm like, no, because I don't do bull Do you think it's because maybe men sometimes are better at like distracting themselves too. Yeah, that's to me.

The compartmentalizing thing he did, it wasn't like it didn't mean he didn't want me. It just meant he was very confused and wanted to be able to go to dinner with other women and maybe date them. Cheating, cheating, That's what I said to him. He's like, but why he more wanted to probably have something very nontraditional. Was this your third marriage? Was? My first two husbands were super saying, super solid, and I was the one who wasn't ready. So can I ask you why why keep

getting married again? Well it wasn't exactly like that. So the first time it was the eighties so I was nineteen. Okay, guys, I love how people use that as an explanation. Brings so much join in my heart, Like it was the eighties. It's what happened. It's true. And I'm from Minnesota, so it's absolutely what people were going to do. Right then, It's be like, we've we've been together two and a half years, We're getting married. It's the next obvious step here. Um,

never mind, I'm a teenager, but whatever. A lot of my high school friends are still married to their high school sweethearts, so it can work. Do you think they're miserable? Um? Actually, I think most of them are not. Miss And sometimes this other friend of mine and will be like, are they really happy? I'm like, I think they are. Do you think there was a time when they were miserable. No, I think we're about to step into another whole topic

around attachment and secure attachment. And I think securely attached people enjoy being in a relationship. It to no big deal. And but they pair up very young and then they're out of the dating pool. Well, so, so you first marriage with the eighties. The second time I was pregnant, and that was in the nineties, so there were thirteen

years between my first and my second marriage. So when you say why I keep getting married, I'm like, well, that was a long time in between, and then there was My next marriage was in two thousand and five, so that was to two thousand five. Second math nine years and then and that's four years ago since I was married. Wow. Yeah, great, you missed the you want to hit every decade had you hit? I know, Well we're not done yet. Yeah, that's okay. I've learned. I

don't need to. I do want to get married again. I do, I mean, but not for just because it has to be right. I'm to hear what kinda thinks about all this, because you have some interesting ideas. When you say the baby before getting married the person essentially, Yeah, here's what I want to do. I want to open your guys minds to other ways to be in a relationship that isn't the bachelor, because that only works for some people, for a small amount of people. I would

say my example is always like a home perm. It's like a home perm. One third of the people are going to get nothing, one third of the people are going to get perfect curls, and one third of the people are gonna be like they stuck their finger in a socket. And I feel like the traditional idea of like we got we met, we got married, we were twenty four whatever, that works for one third of the people, and then there's everybody else, and so I'm trying to go,

what if you're in the other sixty let's talk. No, it's get creative. I think part of me agrees that usually it's a female that gets restless in a relationship. Um, I'm curious because you you had mentioned before that you were interested or you you support like, um, arranged marriages. Why why is that? Well, I'm gonna say, I'm going to use that word loosely. I'm gonna say there's a lot of research on arranged marriages that they're actually very happy.

They are happy marriages. Now, I'm always looking for the wise when I read this stuff, I'm like, why is that. I'm gonna say, number one, it's probably because people when they get romantic, like that romantic thing that happens where you're just like turned on and like whoa fired up? That is actually unresolved trauma, emotional stuff, childhood stuff, generational

stuff coming to the surface being activated. That's what that exciting, fearful feeling is so when you somebody arranged as a marriage, they're not choosing out of that, they're choosing out of like you're this and you're this, and like this should work, and there's not the expectation that this person is gonna make me happy. The expectation is we're going to build

a live Yeah, I can agree. I think the advent like of like dating apps and stuff like that, it's like the power of choice, and at one point is the power of choice to bilitating you know, Oh my gosh, pretty soon, right, yeah, five minutes into swiping, you're like this, And I feel like that's why dating is so like short,

you know, so quick. It's like a quick turnaround. At least I'm speaking for Los Angeles because I feel like, um, there's always something else that's shiny, and so the idea of you're committed to this, you're in this, make it work, or find a way to find happinessness is kind of something that you know, it sounds kind of cool. Well, it's a lot us about like thumbs up. I like that. I don't like that. It's just so much less about which way the wind is blowing. Emotionally or inside of you,

because like we change a lot of times. I would say the idea of arranging a marriage, like I see a lot of couples who got married because it was time, and people say that's a bad thing, But I'm kind of like not so sure. I'm like, maybe that's okay. It's that's a good thing for people to get married

when it's time. No, I'm saying it's an option that you could just choose somebody who's like appropriate, that you get along with, that you could And I'm saying all the ways they arrange a marriage the same set of criteria, and that you come into it not with the idea like this is gonna be the most passionate, oh my god thing. You come into it like we're going to

build a life together. Well, I think people forget with marriages and relationships that this person, yes, you'll be spending the rest of your life with, but you're also gonna be spending every day with. So like you said, there has to be more than just the romance. You're gonna have a conversation with this person every day for the rest of your life, hopefully as long as it works, and you have to factor that in when you're choosing who you want to hopefully spend the rest of your life.

I saw a study I just looked it up about arranged marriages, and it says, according to a two thousand twelve study by Statistic brain Take that as you go, fifty three percent of marriages are arranged worldwide. The global divorce rate for arranged marriages is six point three. I gotta said, it's pretty low, but also we also but we also understand that maybe there's probably a lot of

different factors into why arranged marriages stay married. Come on the other side, I disagree with the range marriage things. Uh explain. I think it's like fringe territory of human trafficking.

It's kind of like pseudo in a sense. And the only reason, in my opinion, again I could be wrong, in just an opinion that the divorce rate is low is because the only reason they're doing it is to fulfill fulfill their family's wishes, their mother and father whatever it is which is that's going to stop and feeling divorce as well. I'm not suggesting your mom and dad

set you up. I'm suggesting you find a marriage that is appropriate that you're not choosing from the Bachelor criteria, You're choosing from these other criteria that are more like building a life with someone. And I also want to say, I'm not saying I'm in favor of arranged marriages. I

was just bringing up the stats for context people. Um, but I agree with you there because sometimes when I look at the Bachelor now that being in a relationship for uh, you know, a couple of years, after being friends with my wife for so long and now being married, you do realize that while you're watching the show, and and I understand that those feelings are real because I was there there in their spot at one point, as

we all were, and the feelings are real. But you what they don't know in the moment is that that relationship right there in that bubble, you're gonna have to take back into the real world and develop up and strengthen and choose each other every day and incorporate each other into each other's lives, both with families, location, uh,

work goals. Because sure, there's probably a lot of things that you guys have in common when you're talking and having conversations, but I guarantee you there's a lot of other things that you don't have in common that you're not even thinking about that a year and a half down the road you're gonna realize could cause uh some issues in the relationships. So what we're talking about is what is the quality of that first nine to eighteen

months going to be? Like is it going to be like super hot or is it going to be like, Okay, I think I met somebody I can really work with. So that's really what we're talking about, because what you're saying is after the eighteen months, the work is the same.

It's about choosing each other every day. It's about So we're talking about a quality of the hot part, because the hot part cools off pretty much for every I guess like because the bachelor world is such a like a fantasy in a lot of ways, it tears you out of your normal life and puts you in like this world where anything is possible, and um, when that starts to become a challenge, then that's where the real decisions. Yes, and I think that the falling in love period mirrors

that fantasy period. Like now that I've been in relationships as many as I've been in I in the falling in love period, I just say to the person, guess what this is gonna wear off? Like, I do not think this is going to maintain because it's not how long do we think it's supposed to last? Well, there's actually a lot of brain chemistry on this. It's like it's like anywhere between nine to fifteen months, you know,

six to twelve, like somewhere in there. It's so interesting because it makes you think, were we built to be monogamous and to have like these long lasting relationships, or were we built to have oh that quick, fiery passion, have a baby, move on. I think we are built for all of it and go to the home perm thing. Some people are built for multiple partners, some people are built for one part or some people could go either

way depending on circumstances. And if you were having a tribe of like a hundred and fifty people, which is

how we used to live, you'd want some of each. Obviously, you don't want everybody getting married a hundred times, and you don't you know, you don't want everybody doing that, but you it would be good for you know, keeping things not just interesting, but well, it's more like the variety that you would get, the genetic variety that you would get, because some people run over to the other tribe and go get somebody, you know what I mean.

Like the variety that you would get would be good for the species, like we are animals and we evolved. Jared made a good point, I think near the end of December and November, one of those episodes, you said that, Uh, correct if I'm wrong. Obviously you said humans in your opinion, aren't inherently monogamous, but you make it the choice to be every single day. And I find that more romantic.

I think in our society, a lot of people just believe eve or want to believe that you're destined to be with one person and and you know, you you find your soul mate. I believe that there is a type of person for me that I connect with more than others. So if you want to say that that type of person is my soul mate, sure, but I'm not sure if that really narrows it down to one person.

And so like with my wife, I her and I choose each other every day, and we're gonna have to continue doing that every day in order to have a successful marriage. Uh. And that's something that I try not to forget about. Um. And I try to remind myself because I think a lot of times in relationships, UM people they back out too easily because they think, well, if it's hard here, then this person is not meant for me. And I've said it a million times on

this podcast. But like I said, if something gets difficult and they choose to go the other way, and they're like, wow, it just didn't work out because you know that was really hard, and it's like, I got news for you. Whatever relationship you're in, there's gonna be a lot of difficult times and you're going to have to work at it. And so really what it comes down to is either you choose to be with this person or you don't. Don't you can choose to do work or you don't. Exactly.

Some people just hold the beach ball underwater, though, and then they're like we're getting along, look at us, but they just don't ever open the closet, you know, they don't ever have the conversations, the hard conversation, no way to go through life, right. I feel There's been like certain studies with lizards that show that some are built to be monogamous while others are more polyamorous. So there's like proteins that are built in the DNA, and I

think they find that in humans as well. So I feel like I feel bec I'm very scientifically minded that humans are either born monogamous or born polyamorous, and I

think you'd like society live up to that. And I'm gonna say, there's probably okay, So if we're going to the genetic thing, it would be like there's probably some things that are you know, like eye color where it can be not just blue, or what it could be in half, and there's probably people because I feel sometimes I think of it as hunters and farmers and like I'm a hunter. R Okay, Like I'm part hunter for sure.

Obviously I've been married three times, I've been in eleven relationships, and I sometimes joke that I'm gonna be lying on my death bed holding the hand of my new boyfriend, you know, but I really don't want that. But once I'm but I need to be monogamous inside of a relationship. And I do not want to have casual sex. I've never wanted to have casual sex. I never had a one night stand. I do not want to have a one night stand. So I feel like I'm both of

those things, you know. But then how long do I say? My longest is like almost six years. But then if you go to my relationship with my kids, Dad, we just talked today and my kids twenty two and we still get along. But we started out as coworkers and we still are. You know what I'm saying. It's like the coworker relationship was a perfect building block for family. It was like, we make decisions together, We are very functional together. I mean, was it super passionate. No, If

it were seven, would that be a great marriage. Sure, But we're not in n And like people want to have, you know, um self actualization through their through their relationships, we want to capture like something spiritual through our relationships. Have a longer life expectancy exactly. I mean I feel like it because life is so much longer. There's so much more room for things to go wrong, for things to be upsetting in a relationship, and also to do

it in different ways. That's also why I want to just put it out there, like we need to invent some new ways to structure relationships, you know. And that's where it comes in where it's like maybe you have the baby with somebody who's great that you can work with, but you don't necessarily imagine that this is going to be where you're gonna partner. You can partner in a family. But that doesn't mean that's not to say was a romantic partnership. I'm just there's a lot of different ways

to look at it too. I had a question because we talked about I think we talked about two separate things. One uh, like you said, holding the beach ball into water and not having those difficult conversations. So I guess for people listening out there that might be going through difficult time in their relationship, how far is too far? Because I say, you know, you have to still be willing to fight for the relationship. Do what you guys

need to do with it. You go to therapy, talk more, be more romantic, put each other first, so and so forth, or go the other side. You know, when do you know enough is enough and it's time for you to move on? I'm gonna say I'm going to the attachment thing now. If the relationship is not secure functioning, what we would call secure functioning, so secure functioning relationship, it's like it works on a basic level and so when I'm in a relationship that doesn't have secure functioning, right,

that's when I leave. So what you're describing where each of you you negotiate things, you're each choosing it every day. There's this um you have basic trust, you know. And when I say basic trust, I mean like you trust each other. Because see, here's the thing. We are primates. We come in our brain is too big, we get born too early, and we have this intense period of dependency on our caretakers for the first year or two really ten of life but could be, but but for

sure for the first year. So what that means is we evolved to need to attach. That is number one. It's even more important than food. Right. So we attached to our mother. That becomes our primary attachment. Whatever that is. That thing is what we map love relationships onto later. So the thing is is when you're meeting in somebody and you're falling in love, you're just doing bond in an attachment. Okay, So some people attach in ways that

are insecure. They don't feel safe. It's like their mom doesn't come when they cry, you know what I mean, Like they're in distress a lot. The partner doesn't know how to calm them down. These are the things I'm talking about. So if you're in a relationship that's hard, but it's hard in a way where you never feel safe, you feel like you're very upset all the time, you have cortisol going all the time, every day, there's arguing, it's uncertain. That's when you that's that's when you want

to go. Now if it's hard, like, oh wow, I'm really having to confront myself, I'm really having to do this, you know, hard work of making this choice one day at a time and growing emotionally and you know, being honest on a whole new level and dealing with shame and all the things that come up in a relationship. That's not the kind of hard you leave, you know, So there's different kinds of heart. Makes perfect sense. I think, what do you think? It's just so hard to know?

And I guess in life you never truly know. No, I'm going to know because your body's going to tell you. I agree. And the way that she described it makes it sound like it's easier to know because I've been in those relationships before where I was always on edge, this anxiety of coursing through my body all that you said, Uh, and now in the relationship that I'm in now, I don't feel that same way. So it is I agree,

and I can see why. Maybe, like in the moment, you it's hard to pinpoint exactly what's causing the anxiety or whatever it is. But then once you move yourself from that relationship and you don't miss it, even if you love the person the sex was so great, you're like, thank god I was. I see, I was in a

different scenario. Granted this was in my younger twenties to mid twenties, but I was in a situation where I ended it with a girl who is incredible, and because I she was my first girlfriend, she was, you know, the first everything, and so I was like I need to kind of figure out myself and move on. Blah

blah blah blah blah. And then months went by and I was like, I am an idiot, and so I from then on, I always that I didn't fight hard enough for the relationship, because that's what we kind of were talking about, that I wasn't willing to really fight for her, and I thought, looking back on it, in the moment, no grants, it all worked out because I found the person I wanted to be with my life. But at the moment, I was like, she was absolutely right.

I ended it too early where I should have fought more. And so that's why I come from the standpoint of like, I think my gut was telling me one thing, but maybe it was wrong, or to what we talked about on the podcast, not Dean, you weren't here, but we talked about listening to your gut. But sometimes what happens is when your gut speaks to you, you let it go to your head and then all these other factors start coming into what should be just a gut decision.

But now you start overthinking it, and then you can't tell what your gut is actually telling you versus to what versus what it is telling you. And so I think maybe I found But you're not describing that you were in Cortisol all the time. You're describing Actually it was a secure functioning relationship. You just weren't ready, So you were I'm talking about when the couple is like, you know what I'm talking I think you haven't been

in a relationship like that. That's what you're in a secure function relationship, and you were in other secure function, and so you're kind of like insecure people. Secure people are like, what do you I don't because he's a secure attachment as an avoid attachment, especially if you're with the anxious and the anxious and the avoid and find each other. But anxious anxious is I mean avoidant to

avoidant is very stable, but it's it's dry. I feel like I was an avoiding relationship like state, like most of my relationships, and then get to a certain point and I jump ship and come up with some excuse um, and it almost takes fighting through that, going over that hill to realize how you would be in like a new kind of relationship, Like it completely shifts. Yeah, what

do you mean by dry? Well? It's like not a moist, yummy, delicious the relationship alationship that works where you're not getting triggered because see the reason and a person up more on And I'm going to say, I'm not gonna say these are hard and fast definitions. I'm gonna say it's more spectrum me. So let's say there's avoidance from one to one hundred and at different points of your life

and with different people. Because if you're with somebody who's a ninety eight avoiding and you're a seventy four avoiding, You're gonna start to look really anxious, you know what I mean, because they're just out doing you in it. But so let's say you're in a in a spectrum and you've got it, you're on the avoidance side. A little bit more. Um, that person auto regulates what called

auto regulates. That person solves problems by going and being alone and by watching TV or doing something alone with themselves, playing a video game, um, smoking pot like whatever. They're going to go away from the relationship to try to calm down and get restore equilibrium. Well, it's a style, so that's what I do too. But I would also argue that, like you said, I'm as secure you are, but I know because you don't do it to the

to the same degree that Dean's gonna do it. Dean's gonna do where the girlfriend's going to be like this doesn't work, and she's gonna start giving a lot of problems for me. It's like I'm gonna go down to the coffee shop down the street for a while. Dean's like, I'm going to go to Europe for exactly that's how I said. It's like a spectrum. I can already feel

that you're on the secure side. It's it's a tone. Now, I know it when I encounter it, right, Um, and then if you know who you are, you know when your stuff wakes up. Okay. So one of the ideas is that if you're on the anxious side, part of why your anxious is about the way you're um, mom will just call her mom. But whoever your primary attachment person was how they interacted with you. So if you're anxious,

you're anxious because it was intermittent. Intermittent so sometimes they were there and sometimes they weren't well when they were there, and you're like in the crib and they're coming and they're gonna meet your needs and you're like, oh my god, my needs are getting mad. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. That's what you It's called somatic markers, right. You build little moments in your body markers miles like little signposts

that are like around excitement. So when you meet that avoidance boom, the somatic markers get activated and you're like, mommy, you know you don't know that you think he's hot and when you meet a secure person, you're like, oh, hum, I'm not failing it, and you move on to the next You go find the next avoidance or the next anxious or whatever type of insecure attachment because that's what you match with. Well. Think it depends on kind of

stimulation you need as well. Like so I think maybe you can need more stimulation because I feel like when I'm in a relationship, I need like constant stimulation or I started to feel stagnant and that's when I'm like, this water isn't moving. I need to jump to like a different ship. Yes, I get that, but I'm gonna say the attachment is the cause of the stimulation need level rather than the result. Why do you think you're an avoidant? Um? I think I'm just comfortable doing my

own thing. And I feel like if you're comfortable in yourself, you don't necessar really need a relationship to fulfill that within you. I have a great family, I have great friends. Um, I feel like I'm okay on my own. And but then again, I love like the physical attachment of like having like a partner. One of the things about the avoidance is that they tend to go in get their needs met and withdraw yeah you know what I mean. Like they're kind of like, I want to just get

my needs met here. And then the anxious person more wants to and mash or be together all the time. The secure person like they're just like I like it both ways, and you're like, I don't even know you people. I love it though. See that's my dream. Somebody asked me I was at a party. They're like, so, what are you looking for in a man? I'm like, secure attachment.

But I know that's going to be very challenging for me. Like, if you give me secure attachment, all kinds of things are going to happen for me because it really goes. Now you start getting into some of the more because the attachment is more baseline, that's like scientific. Then then you've got the stuff that results from that, like the timacy issues, which are more um, you know, it's scary.

Intimacy is scary for everyone, but thet they secures because in an avoidance is good to feel engulfed by intimacy. They're gonna be like, oh my god, because that's what it was. Oftentimes an avoidant is because there was the primary attachment person was um m hmmm, consistently not able to respond. I love your mom and we're not trying to say anything bad at the joke. But like I with, my first question was where are you in the birth order? Um, I'm the first on a twin, so three seconds first.

So as much as that counts, I think twins are a special case too, because a lot of times I think your primary attachment is to the twin. Yeah. I mean we've had each other through every single second, so it's almost like I have the love of my life already. Yes, you know, the other person is just a bonus, but not to belittle like the relationships at all, but you're

being real. Yeah, so I don't. And I think a lot of relationships that I've been in they freak out because they're like, oh my gosh, why do you not need me the way that I need you? Right? And I'm like, wellhy, I do you attract anxious? I I attract Yeah. So here's anxious regulates with other people. So when if you're in a fight, Okay, let's say there's a conflict in a relationship and the avoidance is going to go off and be like I'm gonna go watch

the game, or I'm gonna go to Europe. In your case, the the anxious is gonna want to work it out right then and there. And if they can't work it out with you, they'll go to their friends. And but they're not they can't work it out all by themselves. And like, I'm a mixing that way because I tend to want to talk through things. I don't like to let things rest because then it changes what you're actually there's nothing like being fresh and like talk true and

avoidance do not like conflict. They want to get it over with really fast. They're like, let's just get through this and move forward, because they do not want to stay stuck in it, where the anxious can much more get mired mired down in that. I feel like I've never felt more seen than whenever I listen. Do you talk okay? Well? And that's really interesting and that feels so good for for an avoidance until maybe five or six months into the relationship, when you're like, stop looking

at it. I mean a lot of things you say really do make a lot of sense, but unfortunately we have to wrap up. I know, I feel like we can talk to you all day long, honestly, I mean people, we didn't even talk about dating, well we did. This is all dating and I definitely I hopefully we can get you back at some point. I just slep down the street. You can see my house before. You're working on something. Now. It's called Family or Fiance. It's on the own. It's UM, a reality show about couples who

want to get married. They're engaged, and the families are against it. And we moved the whole gang into a house in Malibu, and basically it goes down in the most beautiful way. And oftentimes nobody is prepared for the amount of healing and growth that happens on this show. And there's nothing everybody there has problem to either. You have, your friends have, your family has Like it's so relatable, it's so moving, you laugh, you cry. I love it,

And how do we find it? It's on own, so you have to like check your cable provider or whoever your satellite people are UM or you can get the app Oprah Winfrey Network. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Coming up, we have one more segment. We're gonna answer a couple of emails and then say see you later. Oh right, we are back and listening to that tone, it made me realize that at the top of this episode, I was like Dean plug the email.

A couple of times throughout this entire episode, I haven't done it once. We love your listener emails, So email us. I suck a dating at i heeart media dot com. We have one email today from Hannah. I'm gonna have marqueritea for us. Well, I'll be happy to the three of us. Hopefully we'll I'll be ality. I select that a little bit, you know. I think this's just something that a lot of people deal with, and so I thought it was a good one for us to discuss.

My name is Hannah'm twenty two years old and single for two years. I've only been in one relationship and it was from being a freshman in high school till a sophomore in college. So I know I'm young, but it was a good five years of my early adult life. I'm finally ready to date again, and it'll be really nice to have someone to share the good things in life with. I've read all the dating apps, I've met

some guys, the mutual friends. It's always good the first couple of dates and then we have the talk and guys always want something more casual, more of a friends with benefits type scenario. Shortly after, I'm always ghosted. Should I try to get guys a little older than me because they're more mature? What ages too old to date? Help? I suck at dating? By the way, I love the podcast. I listened every week. Well, Hannah, first and foremost, thank you so much for being a part of Stuck Army.

We love that more than anything. Where's the sound effects here? I'm gonna love this one over to Kendall because I think she's gonna have some great insight on this. Um, thank you. I feel like it's a very American thing to have the talk about are we monogamous? What's going on? And UM, I see that as like a sense of you're not really being who you were in the beginning of the relationship. You're all of a sudden becoming somebody

that I mean, yes, their strength and vulnerability. But I think that doing something maybe during date one and day two, it's not the correct time to have that talk, and it might be scaring people away. UM. I always feel like it's better to wait until you are in like a really emotionally secure place with someone that you're dating

before having any sort of serious, scary conversation. So I mean, I have a friend who's going through this currently and they had just text, you know, the guy that they're seeing, trying to talk about monogamy, trying to talk about are you dating anyone else? And um, you know, in the beginning of a relationship, it's supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be stress free, and no one wants to be put on the spot. So I feel like, don't just avoid it. Why are you even trying to be

you know, thinking about that right now. Just enjoy the beginning of a relationship, like the passion that it is, for the discovery that it is. And there's ways to ask questions that don't directly put someone on the spot. I think the only thing is that probably Hannah and maybe some other girls too, they just want to know

if this guy's sleeping with other people. It might be afraid I'm being dead serious though, because then you get into like other stuff and I'm curious if they want to know, like, Hey, you're sleeping with other people or not, because that's an awkward question to ask, to be like, hey, is it just me? Or so I think maybe they ask without asking to be like, oh, are we are? Is it just us? Are we seeing other people? I mean, I I agree with I think I agree with that

you want to be safe. You don't want to be with someone who's sleeping in a bunch of different people if you sleep in like three girls all night, you know. But I also feel like there's a lot to be said about developing trust very early on in a relationship

and not trying to peg someone down. UM. I think that if the person is going to meet you and you're developing really strong relationship and they're going to go off and sleep with other people, maybe that's not the kind of person you want to attract into your life. And if that's something they're thinking about early on, is

something they're gonna be thinking about later on in the relationship. UM. I do I love the answer you gave for the fact that it's I think it's correct, But it's not the answer that I wanted to give, And so I think that yours might be more right than mine. Well, answer you want to get, I'm serious, and so I just wanted to let you know that I think that your answer was the best answer between the three of us.

I'm curious answer is just that she should date older because when I look back to me, when I was dating as a twenty two year old, I was dating other twenty two year olds. I was that guy that would run away at the idea of a relationship. But then when I turned twenty eight, at a certain point, I just hit a point where I was like, yeah, you know what, I'm going to be in a relationship now, and then manna be the best dan boyfriend I can

possibly be. So I think that there is something in a guy's head that eventually flips over the other side, and maybe dating older for her would be beneficial in that sense because it sounds like she does want a relationship. And if you are seeking out a relationship and not necessarily looking for like that fun, spicy beginning stage um beat as it may, then maybe go date older? Well how old? Uh? Well? My friends four so I don't see like you can go. I agree with you. I

think guys really take a long time to develop. They really do. And I wouldn't I wouldn't wish two year old me on anyone relationship, and really, twenty two year guys are the kind of the worst. Really, I mean, the only the worst than twenty two year old grids of teenage guys, the absolute words, only worse than twenty

two year old guys one year old guys. I agree, though, I I think for my thing for Hannah is to make sure that you are ready, because Hannah, don't be also forgetting that you are twenty two as well, and so just make sure you're ready for a relationship because then if you start dating older someone, a guy who's like twenty nine and thirty, they were going to be

ready for a relationship. So just be prepared for that because I'm sure a lot of guys you're dealing with right now are you know, very fluid and just don't really care. And so when you deal with someone who's ready for a relationship, it's going to be different conversation. It could be a little scary exactly. Hear that from another guy, because the guys in his late twenties, I mean, he could be ready to potentially find someone he wants

to be with for a very long time. One more point I'd like to make on this, and you bring up the talk guys always wanted friends with benefits tepe scenario. Now that leads me to believe that you've given them a reason to believe a friends with benefits situation is on the table. That's why I brought up what to Kendall. That's why I said to Kendall, I think some girls want to ask have you slept with other people? And the way they ask that is not by saying have

you slept with anybody? It's sure? Are we just? Is it just us? Well? This is when I, you know, get I get eye rolls when I say stuff like this because I'm the old one and I'm the dad and I've got daughters. But my wife to Hannah, if don't sleep with these guys. So if you really want a relationship with these guys, let them get to know you. If they're intrigued by you, they'll stick around a little longer than if they get what they're looking for so quickly,

and then they're gonna move on. I don't know, I know, maybe that's not reality. I don't know, but this is my advice. That's gonna vice. Maybe a twenty two year old probably want stick around for very long, but at the end of the day, that weeds them out anyways, exactly. But there's wayte I always feel like there's ways to have the serious conversation without having the serious conversation, Like instead of saying do you want to be a monogamous

or do you want to do this? Maybe ask like a creative fun question that gives them an out to be funny or but then if they actually are interested in you, they can they would probably gear it towards something that would be more experience. You could you could even make a comment like, oh is out last weekend? Some guy tried to hit on me, but I was like, like not interested or something like to see how they respond.

I think an interesting question is if you had a clock that could count down to any moment in your life, what would you want that clock to count down too? And that's like that leaves a space open for what I wanted to count down to the next person that I meet, or I wanted to count down to like when I get an awesome cars. Like the way you take a question like that shows what you're looking for

and shows what you're prepared for. I saw your tweet and I was gonna response sarcastically what I was I did teat that, but I thought it was an interesting question. For like getting to someone and getting to know what their inner voice is saying, well, Dean, what what what's your clock ticking down to? My sarcastic response was going to be to the time I lose my virginity, But I didn't really think about it very seriously back in time. I don't, uh negative, I don't know what I'm gonna be.

I'll think about I'll come back next week with an answer for you. There do you j This is? This is a fascinating what the car your countdown clock? So there's something you're excited for, like's eve or something you're looking forward to and counting the minutes until. Yeah, I mean I'm excited to have kids, but I also don't think Ashley and I are. I mean we're ready to a sense, but I'm also ready to push it off clock. Look at it's an exciting Clark. It's also yeah, what

would you want it to be? Like? Genuinely? What? Like? What sex? No? Well, I mean yeah, sex is great, but what would you want your clock to be? What do you mean what would you want coming down to a specific moment? Oh? No, that's what I mean. Like, I'm I'm trying to think of the next stage of my life. I guess buying a house. I've always wanted to go. I've always wanted to own property and I never have, So I think buying something that's mine that

would be really cool. Uh, potentially owning my own business. But again these are also like very generic things. I wish those are very good. It just shows that your priorities are right now, that are top of mind. I was gonna heard about that great another podcast that doesn't live in Los Angeles. Oh my, I think I think for a while, minord B, I've got an answer for you.

Is just when I could walk without crutches again the immediate herz's go ahead and get that squared away, and then I'll move on to the next What does the doctor say? They say my hip will have fully began rebuilding the bone after six weeks from surgery from the accident sets in three weeks. I could pretend you walk again. I think I'll be walking sooner than that. But I'm not gonna put any I'm not going to risk it, So you shouldn't push that. Yeah, don't push it. What

would yours be? Um? Mine would be mm hmm, Yeah, you prett me on the spot. I can't answer me. Um Um, I think it changes a lot, but I think mine would probably be right now. My mind's thinking, Oh, when would I want to like own property. That's something that I've been thinking about a lot. Um. But yeah, I guess when will I feel um like, I guess when will I feel like, um, like I've gotten to a place in my life where um it's I'm like

comfortable and I can I don't know. It's really hard to answer this question, picked up by Box as the hot new midseason replacement series. Well exactly yeah wait wait people five Yeah, true, Okay, yeah, I was she was onto something. I want to hear what she was gonna say. Um, I guess, I guess there's I guess. The one thing it's really hard to I try not to live in the future. I think that's something that bugs people, allows people not be happy in the present. Um, how to

not live in the future. I feel like a lot of people have trouble doing that. I feel like I try to just Um. I think reading a lot allows me not to live in the future, allows me to be in the present and to reflect on things that relate to my life now. Um. And I think is when I'm learning something. Is when I feel like I'm growing myself currently and presently. So that's how I keep yourself learning. So you recommend everyone, but you have a

countdown clock. Yes, except for me, I'm not allowed to be put on the spot, but everyone else is give us one comdown, one clock, calmdown. It'd be interesting to see when Um, like, first I think, oh, maybe like

when I die. You want to know, I mean opinion that well, because then then you can feel like you don't have to be stressed about it and kind of knowing at that point if it's at twenty four hours, you would be so stressed about it and you're like not going in the street, not going to like talk to anybody. What happens after you die? Um? Yeah, I mean I guess it depends. I think there's a lot of things that could potentially happen after you. That's the

scary part. What if nothing happens. Not to be that guy. I mean, energy is neither created or destroyed, so it goes somewhere. But like consciousness is the question, like where does your conscious consciousness go after you die? I mean when you fall asleep or when you are put to sleep during a surgery. Where were you? Then I woke up? You're nowhere. It's like, guess that's proof that maybe there's nothing God. I read a book called They Both Die at the End, which I do recommend, by the way.

So it's a young adult novel when most of the novels I read are that um, but it's the premises that Sorry guys, I mean, you know, the service that calls you the day you're going to die, and I think we're very sorry to tell you this, but this is your last day on earth, you know, so sorry, I get your affairs in order, but this is it. And so sometime in the next twenty four hours you are going to die and you don't know how. But that's that's reality. Everybody gets that call in the whole world.

So it's not like this you're expecting it, you're dreading it. But when that call comes, you gotta do the best you can. Prefer that. I appreciate that, you know, because you're like, oh, dangit, I need to write my will and testament, like and even I have never even written one. So you know I've been about writing a will lately. Yeah, after your accident, well before I think it was. Once I got licensed to skydive, I was like, if I die, I want my brothers to like have my money in

the van. Obviously that's really nice. I mean, I haven't done it, so should go to museum, don't you think? Yeah? I guess so. Actually I had a funny story. So yesterday I was driving the jeep from Venice to uh West Hollywood, and I'm as I'm starting to explain this story, I realized I don't want to explain. But we were driving. I was driving my Jeep and my roommate was driving my van, and so I've got vanity plates for both of my cars because I'm an I'm that guy. And

we were driving through as Hollywood. We got lunch and there was this big TMZ truck that drove by, and Caitlin was in the passenger seat and I was like, oh, look at the TMZ truck. All of a sudden, it stops dead in the tracks right in front of us, and the lady runs out on the loudspeaker, going, it's Dean, It's Dean, It's Dean. I don't know why I got how I thought of this story, but it was one of the most bizarre experiences of my entire Did you

try like running away? I was in my car so I just got into the oncoming traffic land and zipped off. Why didn't you say hi to the tour I honked at him a couple of times. Well, anyways, Yeah, the TMZ bus is nice because those are people just kind of that aren't in l A and just seeing the sides. That was my segue into ending this podcast, I think. Anyways, thank you so much for the listeners out there for joining us on the second episode of the year two

thousand and twenty. We love you guys. What's the email Dean that the email is? I suck a dating at ihart media dot com. Email us please, I will get on my one good knee and bang you to email us. We love the listener emails hand and we hope that Kendall's advice helped you, or maybe Jared's or maybe mine. Email us, I suck at dating at iHeart Media dot com.

Big thank you to our guest Tracy McMillan. Don't forget the doctor at the beginning of that be sure to check her out on Family or Fiance on the own network, and of course Kendall, thank you for coming in co hosting with us today. Of course, thanks for having me on. Always a pleasure. I know this might be challenging because you already host your own podcast. You've got a lot going on, but we need you in studio more often. It'd be fun. I like talking about all the three

bril things. I'll bring a little bit of a I'll bring down the mood a little bit with my darkness. Bring the darkness. That's what we need. Is there anything else we want to give? Thanks to Mark Easton. I think that's gonna do it for today. Great well, thank you guys for being here. Thank you for being here. You're okay. I'm gonna be here for the foreseeable futures. Thank you guys for listening. Be sure to tune in next week, where maybe we will suck just a little

bit less. Follow Help I Suck at Dating with Dean Anglert on I Heart Radio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.