#3 Back to the Future

They both know me. We've gotten to know each other through a long time spent together on the TV show, UM and a little bit afterwards. I think that they have a great relationship. I want to get to the bottom of what makes them work so well and maybe what didn't work so well between Rachel and myself. And I'm definitely nervous about it. UM. I've been in touch with Rachel a little bit post show, but nothing, you know, to the extent, especially about our relationship. I haven't really

talked to Brian very much. UM, So I'm nervous, you know, I don't really know where they're, where they're gona be coming from, what they're gonna want to talk about. But I'm excited. I think that it can only be constructive. I think that it's gonna be a little bit awkward because of my friendship with Peter Um. You know him. Peter and I grew very close over the show, which kind of took a little bit away from the friendship

that I had with Brian Um. But at the end of the day, I think it's important to put everything in the past and just just kind of move on

and grow from it. So we're gonna have Rachel, Lindsay and Brian Abi solo come on UM, sort through the awkwardness, talk about what makes them great, talk about what I could improve on, because again, Rachel is close to Christina and Danielle, who she um was on the same season as Nick with and she saw them in Paradise, so she can maybe feels fill us in a little bit about that. And yeah, we'll see how it goes. I'm very nervous, Um. I've had a lot of coffee today.

It's been stressful. It was just a trick to get here. My motorcycle broke down on the way to the studio. The producer is yelling at me because I run a little bit behind. We had to push the call with Rachel and Brian backle little bit. But again they're very gracious, They're they're working with us. Um, I'm trying to calm down. I'm trying to practice my breathing exercises that my meditation app is miss having me work on. But some things you just can't really settle down on. And so here

we are talking to these two people. I'm d Dungler help. I suck at dating and pretty much everything else in life. So one thing that can make dating easier. I talked about it last week a little bit, dating apps, And you want to know what the best dating app out there is, It's got to be Bumble, because not only can you use Bumble to find dates, you can also use it to find friends. You can also use it to network professionally. I didn't know that. I think that

I would love to have more friends. I think that maybe I'll just get on Bumble and start friend finding right away. Um Bumble is great too, especially as a female. Obviously I've never really experienced the other side of it, but I think that there's something empowering about the idea

of the woman messaging the guy first. Because I have friends female friends who use other dating apps where these guys have just basically an open line to whomember they match with, and they can basically start badgering and and attacking verbally these women that they've never met before. But with Bumble, of the great thing about it is the woman has to message the guy first, so there has to be the shared level of interest and then the woman reaching out, which is great. I think that definitely

adds a different dynamic to it. I think that um that premise is should be widely adopted. I think that they're killing it. And if you go to bumble dot com slash dean to download the app, you can start using Bumble. You can start going on these great dates. I have friends that have met friends, uh, boyfriends, girlfriends through bumble Um. I have friends that have met friends through Bumble. And again, you can network professionally through Bumble.

So if you're in a profession where you know networking is important, or maybe it's a little bit difficult for you to do it, sometimes it's a great way to meet like minded individuals. Um and it's safe, which is which is the important thing too. So again, go to Bumble dot com slash dean to download the app and start bumbling, so on the phone. Now we have Bachette season thirteen, Rachel Lindsay and her fiance Brian Abislo. How are you Guys's good by going on? Let's going on?

Where all reunited? Hey? Are you guys together right now? Are you in the same room or are you We're actually separate, separate rooms. But you're okay, got you, got you? So, how's anything going with you? Copper wants to be a part of the podcast. No, I mean that's fine by me. You know how much I love dogs. So so guys, fill me in. How's everything going. Everything's great, man. We're just uh living living in Dallas, living in Dallas life, just doing our thing, uh, you know, potentially moving to

uh California in the near future. So we're excited about what's to come. Wait, Brian, so you're living in Dallas right now with Rachel. I mean, so, does that mean you sold your condo in ord to I'm not actually rented it out? Yeah, man, I'm fully committed. I rented out my condo, I sold my car. M I'm here man, you got to That's that's amazing. I think that's kind of the approach you took during the entire season as well.

You were fully committed the entire time, and I think that the really really shows, especially not too which is great and um, you know, you guys seem incredibly happy together. I'm incredibly happy for the both of you. I know that there was a little bit of maybe backlash that you know, the two of you took uh during the season airing, and I personally want to apologize for maybe the negative negativity that I spoke of maybe the relationship that you two have in the press while all that

was airing. I I feel awful for it. It's never my intention. Um, but you know, it's great to be able to look on and watch you guys, Um, you know, continue to to live your life together, especially you know, moving to l A is a big step. I think I'm trying to think, is there any other Bachelor bachelorette that moved to a completely separate city altogether, because I think mostly it's one person moving to the other person's city, Right, that's a really top point, I think, honestly, I don't

even know. I think that's I think that started. We're not starting over obviously. So so, Rachel, are you going to practice law in in California, and Brian, you're gonna be doing the chiropractor thing out here too. Yeah, I'm actually, uh, just good news that I got my application approved in California. So pretty much all I need to do now is take the laws and rules test of California and tact

this the same process. You know, I'm almost getting that license as well, So I'm just pretty much covering my base is, you know, in every state that we could possibly end up with. So that's that's basically where I stand on that. But but to your to what you said earlier, man, I appreciate apology, and you know, I've always had love free man, So you know, let's let bygones be bygones, and you know, let's move on and

again be one big happy family. Absolutely, and yet especially if we come to L A. R. Yes, I do plan on my firm unfortunately firm having office and howfolny, and so you know, if we make that move out there, then I'm going to take the bar and you know, continue to practice and take advantage of, you know, whatever else may come my way. I love it. I love

it all right. Well, so to kind of get more on the point, so obviously you guys, know, this is a dating podcast basically centered around my inability to be a successful data right, But it seems, you know, as I mentioned that you two really do seem to be genuinely happy with each other, and um, I don't know. I think that it would be great to to kind of get to know what makes you two work so well together. Well, first of all, I'm proud of you, Dane.

You know, I feel admitting that you have a problem is the first step help I suck at dating. I think you're better than to right the rest of so, I think, I don't know, Like for us, I feel like, well, first of all, you're twenty six, right, so we're not twenty six. Like I feel like if we were reaching talking to our twenty six year old selves, it would be a little different. So like I think like age

has something to do with it. Um, But for us, like the key things have been communication, Like our communication is really really good, like outside of like chemistry and you know, the getting along well and having the same interest, Like, communication has been super key for us and has been so beneficial in the success of our relationship. I'm very bad communication. That's definitely, it's definitely important yeah, I mean obviously, the you know, the love and respect have to be there.

You know, that's that's stay true since you know, since the beginning, since we first met, and like she said, communication, honesty, just being totally upfront with each other. You know, even if the conversation is difficult, you know, you've got to be able to basically express yourself to the max to your significant other. And you know, I think if everything's out on the table, you know, there's no room for misinterpretation. And I think that's just gonna done through your relationship.

And so so during the season, I mean, it's basically the evolution of dating, right, I mean, one, when we step out of the limo, none of us knew Rachel Um, so it's really hard to chuck up that as as kind of I guess that is essentially when the dating begins, but as time moves on, you slowly progressed through the

relationship and things become more serious. Right. So, so, Rachel, do you mind I guess sharing a little bit about what made um first of all, Brian so great at the whole dating aspect, and then on the flip side, maybe some negative, uh, some bad aspects that you saw within me as as dating kind of moved on. I know it's I know it's kind of awkward to because I mean, obviously your fiance is on the line. Um. But no, Dean, it's not. It's not awkward for me

at all to tell you what you did that. Um No. I mean it's kind of like piggybacking on what Brian just said as to why. Like he stood out to me immediately he I'm a very honest and direct person. I mean, like some people can handle that, some people can't. But I think that that has been beneficial in our relationship and just in general. And so when I first met Brian, he was very direct. He was like, this is this is what I do, this is why I'm here, this is how I got here. And I was like, okay,

this is very refreshing. It was. It was like a breath of fresh air to me, and honestly, no one really did it that way the first night, and so that really stood out to me. And moving forward, Brian just built on that. Like he didn't just talk it, he walked it, and he was everything that he said he was. Um, Deane, No, like you and I connected from the beginning because we had so much fun, right, and like that stood out from the beginning. We had

a lot of fun. But sometimes you have to go deeper in a relationship and it's just can't always be sunshine and blue skies, you know, like if you're trying to spend here forever with this person, you got to get down to the nitty gritty. And I think with you, like you're such a sweet and knife person that you want to stay in that world, and you know you have. I think it was like a little too too much fun, you know, like just too fun. I think fun is important,

but you know you have to go deeper than that. Yeah, I think, I mean, thank you for sparing me. But I hope as a conversation was on, you're willing to dig in a little bit more because I know, I know obviously you watch a little bit of Paradise and are familiar with kind of some of what happened there. But I guess back to to Brian then, So, Brian, how do you think more maybe like tune it more towards the listeners. What do you think the listeners can

do too? I don't know, replicate your you know, obviously your your success that you had on the season. Um, you know, if if you're giving out dating advice, I guess what would that dating device be? Uh well, I first think that it's just very important or din't to self reflect and just know exactly what you want, Like who, who are you? What do you want? You need to figure that out first. Um, you know, whether that's settling down, being exclusive with someone, or just having fun in dating.

You know, you just got to kind of figure out exactly once you what you want. Now, once you figure that out, then you know, with any party that you're engaged with, you know, you should basically be a hundred percent honest and forthcoming and just let them know where you stand in exactly what you want with them. You know.

I just think that people get in trouble when they you know, they beat around the bush and you know, withhold information or just straight up lie to the other person, and that just brings on the necessary dramas to that person's life and who wants that? So I just think it it's kind of like the truth will set you free mentality, you know, if you're just up front with the person, like yeah, I think I think you'll be

better off in the long run. And I mean, I I don't remember the whole situation with you and the girls on Paradise, but you know, I know you were, you were forthcoming. I just maybe the delivery could have been a little bit better than you know what I'm saying, Like, I think I think you. I think I saw like a valid attempt at being honest. But you know, I guess maybe I don't know how it came out on the like on TV, maybe a little bit different than

now it actually came to win down. But I think you were I think if you were just a little more blunt, a little bit more direct, I think maybe it would have been a little bit better for you. But and I think that speaks to you a lot too. I think that you have maybe a little bit more self awareness, so when you're honest, it's it comes across as more direct and more um yeah forward, I guess in a good way, because I mean, I always want

to be as honest as possible. I think to to the point you were making earlier, if you always tell the truth, you never have to remember anything, right. And UM, I just think that I probably sugarcoated a little things more than than UM I should have. But UM, I mean, that's great. I think I think that's absolutely great advice. Um, back to the both of you. Then, Okay, so I think YouTube more so than anyone in my memory, and it's it's a short memory because I haven't been a

fan of the franchise for very long. But you do have have kind of taken a lot of flak on social media, right, do you guys mind just sharing a little bit about how that affects your relationship, because I mean it's definitely unfair. It's these people that don't know anything about you, guys that have watched you for two hours every Monday for nine weeks, that are you know, making all these rash assumptions and calling you these names, and it's just ridiculous. How do you guys kind of

deal with that or handle that? Yeah, I mean it's it was difficult in the beginning. I mean, I I'm believe it or not, actually very private normally with my relationships, and so to be so public and honest about like the relationship and then for people to not everyone, but to be attacked on social media and then just sometimes in the media. It was really hard, um individually and

then just together as a couple. But I think for us, how we got through it was just being honest with one another about how it affected us and working through that, and I think that helped us get through it. And for us it was like, if we can get through is, which was a lot in the beginning, then we can get through anything, because it was a lot. It was

a lot. But yeah, I think it's just it's uh, it's a tribute to just our maturity level and just us knowing each other so well and knowing exactly what we want. I think the social media thing, I mean, as you've learned being I'm sure you know, not everybody is gonna like you a percent of the time or anything. You might think you do any everything perfect, and somebody's still going to have a problem with it. So I think one of the best strategies just try to stay

all social media. But you know, if that's not how possibility, like you're saying, you know, communication is key. You know, if we see something out there that's negative or you know that's bashing us in any way, you know, we'll talk about it. You know, how do you feel about that? You know, we'll lack each other and we'll talk through it, and you know, I just think it takes you know, two people that have that love and respect for each other not not let those types of things affect you.

So yeah, I think it's definitely it comes with a communication, that's it. And so have you guys noticed it kind of like dissipate a little bit since then. I mean obviously during I think was probably the Apex and just NonStop, right, but it's kind of simmered down a little bit, I think, Right, yeah, like we're just living ourselves, I mean, are living our lives and I think that and not paying attention or responding.

I mean, I guess I kind of have a clap back here and there sometimes, but like we're trying not we're trying not to respond to anything, and we're just ourselves and that's all you can be. And I think people are just either getting tired of, you know, being negative or just hopping on board, like realizing you know, like it's for real at these two and so we're just trying to block everything all negativity out Let's not you know, let's not just spell all the love that's

out there. I mean, that's there's a whole lot of love, way more than hate, you know. So you know, we're we're happy about that as well. You know, we appreciate all the family love as well. Great, Well, so, how do you guys mind diving in a little bit into how your relationship has changed in the show? I think that you know, obviously we all had maybe access to see what how your relationship develops over the course of

the nine weeks on the show. But now you guys are like living together, You're spending pretty much every moment together, at least when you when you're with each other in the same city. So how is your relationship kind of evolved from then until now? Because again, it's a it's a unique transition that none of us are really accustomed to. Has that been difficult at all? I mean social media side,

just essentially just two people living their lives together. I think we obviously get to know more of each other. We're we're more comfortable in our own skin. You know, every day that passes, we're able to you know, express each other, expressed to each other a lot easier than the day before. And you know, in Rachel, I think I just have a woman that's that's very patient, you know, she she puts up with all my crap and you

know still loves me. And that's I feel like that's so priceless to be able to be a be yourself and have someone who loves you for who you are. What kind of talk about what? Everybody? Everybody has your cork, every everybody has their corks, everybody has their pet peeves about the other person. It's tough, man. You know, you're bringing two people with two distinct personalities together and it's so it's going to be for a lifetime. So you know you're gonna get on each other's nerves every now

and then. But you know, I just feel that she loves me and I love her to death, and it's just you know, love rises above all, you know. So you know we look past all the all the flaws which everyone everyone has, and you know that's something they should share. It's in a relationship when you find somebody like that. What do you guys find yourself about the most?

Being late? Either one of us are like timely people, so very punctually you know, yeah, none of one of us has to step up and be the one to do it. So like our time management skills are a little off, and so like you know, sometimes I'm ready waiting for him and vice versa, and so yeah, like I'd probably say, like, that's like our biggest thing. Tim I think, I think timing not only in terms of punctuality, but in terms of where you're at in your life.

And this is a perfect segue, it's My next question is how important do you think timing played as a factor into I guess your guys relationship, right, I mean, Brian I thirty seven, Rachel thirty two. I think that you guys are definitely at a time in your lives where you know, you wanted to settle down, you wanted to start a family. Um, how important do you think that is? And not just your relationship, but in any relationship. I think I think timing is everything. I mean, that's

actually one of my favorite you know, little monikers. Um, it's it's something that going in I had a positive attitude going in to meet Rachel because I did see her being more or less at the same level of where we wanted to be with our with our futures. You know, she was thirty one, a professional, Uh, she wanted to settle down and I wanted those same things. You know, maybe a couple of years back, I wouldn't

have been ready for that, you know. So I think timing and where the person is in their life and what they're ready for, I think that's paramount. Oh about you, Dad, But yeah, well said, well said, it really is. It's like if I had met Brian like three years ago, I don't think I would have been ready for him. I think I was at a place we were just both where we needed to be to meet each other. Give him a baby, I don't. I don't know if that's he's agreeing with you disagreeing with you. You know,

I thought that too. When that doesn't sound good, No, I think I think that's a that's a good point too, because, um, I think Brian and I talked about this a little bit throughout the course of this season. I think I was the youngest one at during filming most of it, And um, I think that you could always think that you're ready for something, right, but at the end of the day, timing sometimes just doesn't necessarily make sense. And so you know, years old, I'm thinking that I am

ready for it. When Rachel and you know you attributed a lot of it to timing, I think you're absolutely right. I think that timing plays a big factor in um, you know, your relationship with whomever it is. And um, I mean it's great that you too, obviously were able to to kind of walk into each other's lives in such a unique fashion and figure that all out. Um, but beyond that, but sorry, beyond that. So what is like once you guys moved to Los Angeles? You guys

are going to again kind of continue your careers. But what does like a typical day look like between the two of you? I know, you guys have been traveling a lot together. Um, I think like the press circuit is pretty much done with but I still see you guys, Um, you know, driving around a lot. What do you what do you guys typically like to do together that keeps things interesting? The other night, you know, we hung out

with friends. You know, went out and had a nice little uh like time dinner with friends, and then we went dancing afterwards. Uh we broke it down pretty pretty well. I love dancing. Yeah, gotta I gotta do you suggest giving the dating advice that I should learn how to dance? I think that I really should learn how to dance. Oh you. Every every woman loves the guy, Yes, every single time Brian came back from a day, he was like, I was just dancing with dat. I'm like, you, you

smooth son of a gun. Meanwhile, even that great of a dancer, I just you just gotta yourself. Don't be modest. I heard some stories he's not just one signature move. You just did one signature move steps to Rachel taught me on a two step. I already forgot how to do it. Here I am dancing on stage at a Russell Dickerson concert with hundreds of people looking on. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm like burning up

there to country music. You just started. You just started stazzing out, and I was like, all right, We'll just go with it. I wasn't fighter flat mode. I went into panic mode, all right. So that's what that's what I'm gonna take from this. I need to learn how to dance a sap do, Brian. Another question for you, how do you find yourself dealing with fellow cast members

from the season. I think that you've done a great job of kind of maintaining a lot of the friendships, especially with like Well or Josiah or you know that the Fluridians, but is it awkward for you at all to, I guess maintain the friendships with with the cast members from our season. I mean, dude, honestly, going into the season, I mean, obviously my main focus was Rachel, but you know, coming out of all this, I definitely wanted to be friends with you guys, like I wanted to establish a

lot lifetime friendship with with guys on the show. I mean, you know, obviously you talked to some guys more than others, but yeah, I mean I'm in a little bit of a unique situation, you know, being with Rachel. So it's not like we can, you know, go have boys nights every weekend or whatnot. But yeah, I definitely try to maintain a relationship with everybody, and now you know, I intend to have a relationship with you, Ma Man, and uh, you know how with everybody, you know, whenever I'm in

their city or they're in mind. I definitely wouldn't mind hanging out with with a lot of the guys in the show, you know, like like you just mentioned Will, Josiah, Matt, Adam, Eric you. I mean, you know, there's a there's a lot of guys that you know, I definitely grew fond bond of on the show. Well, especially with you guys moved out to l A. I think it's going to be great, and I think that there's a little bit

of sourness that gets put into it, right. I mean, we all go on the show for Rachel, right, and you were the one that walked away with essentially the ultimate prize, and so at the end of the day, we're maybe a little bit resentful of that. But I think that once we all move on and look past that. Obviously, you know, we all have a very very similar characteristics that are are basically the basis for our friendship. And um, again, I think you've done a great job of being in

that situation because it's it's difficult. You know, you you're friends with essentially ten to fifteen guys that have dated your fiance. Well well I guess you were dating here too, which is just a weird thing to even think about. But um, all right, Well, don't want to take up too much more, you guys time. Um, you guys are amazing. Thank you so much for for calling in and you know, giving us a little bit more insight into what makes

you guys such a great couple. And um, your daily lives and I can't wait for you guys to get to l A. And we'll definitely have to to grab lunch of dinners, some drink some time, and um, I gotta figure out that two step and oh gosh, man, well we'll double man, we'll double day. That'll be the day, That'll be the day, all right, Rachel, Yeah, Hey, I'll be honest, I think you were. You were a little too nice to me this one call, which I appreciate, but um, you guys are amazing again, Thank you so

much for calling in. Thank you for the time. And once you guys get to Los Angeles, give me a give me a call and wall I'll be sure to kick it. Thanks for having man, all right, take care guys. Bye bye, dude. And you were shaking still a cold, Drew just coursing through my veins. I'm pretty sure my b a c of coffee is like a point to five right now. They were incredible. I mean I think

that they have a good report with each other. It's difficult, obviously, when it's a three way call and you're not in the same room and you know you're not sure who's supposed to talk first. But I think it's very clear here to see that they have a very genuine interest in each other, and um, they're very dedicated to to making the relationship work. And I think to Rachel and Brian's point, I think that's one of the most important things, is just the willingness or the desire to to make

any relationship work. I mean, like they said, they'll have their little arguments, but at the end of the day, if you're willing to look past that and and kind of see the bigger picture that this is someone that you can spend the rest of your life with and be happy with, I think that's the most important thing. So if you listened last week, which I mean, of course you listened last week, that's telling you about the fall box fab fit Fun. I got something new for

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I've taken it upon myself to reach out to ex girlfriends, people have used to date and the very first love of my life, Carmel. I won't se your last name. Carmel. Who's on the phone now, Carmel? How are you? How are you well? I appreciate that. I appreciate that. Thanks for taking the time to chat with me today. It's actually I was just talking about how it's been so long I feel like since you and I have talked on the phone. Not ten years, maybe like seven or

eight years, but a long time. Nonetheless, Um, dude, I was walking down the stairs dance and I like, ours all right, we'll take a second, take a second. I'll talk a little bit, just to kind of give you us a second to to get your wits and your

your breath back. So I was just telling them how you were basically the first love of my life, how we dated in high school for I think it was like a year and a half, right, Um, I I embarrassingly admitted that you are the out owner of my V card and I know we talked about this a

little bit via text. So this whole podcast is about me and and the listeners to to be better at dating, right, And I think no better than anyone to to speak to how I was as a boyfriend than you, because you really were in there and entrenched to date me throughout those you know, couple, what year and a half whatever it was that we were in high school and for the listeners. So again, Carmel, I dated I want

to say, June sophomore, junior of high school. Carmel then went to Sweden on a student exchange program for about a year and that's kind of how it fizzled out between us, I guess, but Karma, I mean, can you speak a little bit too about what it was like I guess to be my girlfriend, as weird as that sounds, and like maybe what you could see in my dating habits back then that I could do better at anything

like that. Um, I don't know. We're like best friends before, so that made it really easy and well we'll be but out door worrk uh No. I'm really easy to talk to you about stuff. And I don't know, if you look at the day someone find the best friend first, that worked out pretty well. So that's what I keep saying to everyone too. I feel like that doesn't really

seem to be the main trend though. I mean, I guess Eastern and Mark, the two producers in the room right now, they were friends with their um girlfriends and now lives before dating them. But I think it's important to have a friendship before you dive into a romantic relationship as well, because it worked so well with us, and we never fought. We never fought, I mean we did what we did one time. I remember one time

we fought, yes. And I think that part of the reason that I you and I grew so close was you knew me during such a tumultuous time, right through the passing of my mother. You were there for me, and you you never really wavered, and you were were constantly a supportive person in my life during that time. And I think that was, you know, very important for me. And and I think that really just speaks to your character.

I think you want to to have everyone's best interested in mine, and you want to just be a good person all around. And I think that, as embarrassing as it is to sound, I think that I took a lot from that because, um, you know, even though you can be an idiot sometimes I think you have, you have everyone's best intentions in mind, right, No, of course, I mean absolutely. Um, we're two stupid idiots. That did other people think, Karmelo, you gotta stop cursing girl. Come on,

I guess I could have told you that beforehand. But no, I mean so beyond that. I don't think you watched either The Bachelor or Bachelor in Paradise to you, No, I watch football, man, I mean good good. That's part of the reason we got along so well, because I didn't watch Um, and I think. Okay, so are you're not dating anyone now, are you? I am? Oh, you are that same guy you've been dating for six years? Nice? Okay, Well, I mean I should be able to give you advice.

It's been seven and a half actually seven and a half years. Congratulations, that's a long time. Um. Okay, my bringing it back to us, I guess, because I guess that has to be the central idea of this entire conversation. It's going to get awkward. I'm sorry, but I know you really don't care about that. UM, tell us about I don't actually don't. I don't want to ask you that you have to talk about. Let's talk about how our relationships started, right, So what okay, all right, Okay,

go for it. Okay, you well, well, like when we were friends, going out like every day freshman year, let's talk about when we started to get intimate with each other. Okay, Um, that was when I came back from Hawaii when my mom got married, and you asked Jovanni to ask me out,

and then that was pretty much instantly. I right after that, you think instantly, I just remember, do you remember Rachel's house party over the summer's That's that's when things kind of kicked off for us, I guess, at least in mind. But yeah, so I guess what made you want to sue a romantic relationship with me? I know, for mine, for for me? I mean, I think that it was a secret that I was pretty much head over heels in love with you from for a long long time.

Right yeah, oh, come on, don't even dude, I had a fourth grade Yeah. I think that there was always like a cat and mouse game that we played. You were dating someone for a while, um, and it was weird as kind of like a forbidden love because my oldest brother was dating her oldest sister and it was kind of like that was kind of awkward. Um, but no, okay, So beyond that, I guess was it was it like an extra burden for you to kind of be there for me during the difficulties that I had to deal

with while my mother was dealing with her illness. Not at all. Actually, I mean when Debbie passed and um, you actually stayed at night with us a lot in the sun room, remember, And I thought, you know, I like to ask you questions about her, like because I didn't even know her as well as Mario did. And I mean I've met her a few times, but I felt like the more I got you to talk about it, the better you felt, and then the more fun we had.

But I mean, I knew that nothing was ever going to replace her at all, but I thought it was just really healthy for you to have an outlet. And beyond all that, too, I think that you were kind of an outlet when my father was making me angry because I would have constantly run away from home and essentially spend Yeah, oh my gosh. Again, I know you haven't watched the season, but he's in one of the episodes, and I think you get kicked out of it Okay, yeah,

that was what I think. So Dean didn't have his mom was gone, his dad was being, you know, not a father figure. And so when I'd say in that Deane's house, you know, he's the youngest. All his older siblings are gone, Chip is gone, his mom is gone. But I wasn't there. You know, It's like you'd be there about yourself, nobody to cookie dinner or nothing. So and I think that that drew that added to the connection that we had, and it kind of strengthened our relationship.

I remember even. I think it was one spring when I was a junior in high school, I got like a gnarly concussion when I was skiing or something like that, and the first responder was Carmel. As she came to the you had to put up with me and you got to like pour what was hudro peroxide over all my cuts, and I was like being unconscious, like ridiculous person. Every two seconds you look at your arm was bleed and you're like, what happens? I tell you again, and

you're looking at like what happened? And it was fine, But like after five hours, I was like, dude, let's just watch the Nuggets game. And I think that's what was unique AboutUs is because we had a great friendship and then you kind of were like that that enforcer in my life, like kind of like the maternal figure. Um, and maybe that's what I need moving forward to I think, Um, you know, obviously you've moved on, moved on. I mean, you've been dating your boyfriend for seven and a half years,

which is great. Um. I have not really been so lucky in my dating woes to to find someone that I've been with for seven years. But um, well, is that what you want? Do you want? You want to? Yeah? I think at the end of the day. I think at the end of day, everyone's kind of looking for

that person that can spend the rest of their life with, right, Um. Yeah, But I mean you need to have somebody, Okay, you specifically, you need to have somebody that is going to know that everyone has a task and that passed has definitely shaped who you are and some days you're gonna miss your mom a lot more than other days, and they need to be there for you. You need to find somebody that you know whole support, especially with your dad, and so going back, maybe maybe that aside just in

terms of as far as boyfriends go. Was I a good boyfriend to you? Yeah? You maybe laugh. We did random stuff together. You always did what I wanted to do, even if it's stupid, but it was mostly stupid. Yeah, because it's my ideas well? Right right? Do you think that had you not gone to Sweden? What do you think would have happened in our relationship? And to give the listeners a little bit more insight, so Karmen went to Sweden for a year during senior year of high

school on a foreign exchange program. By the time she got back, I was leaving for my freshman year of college. Um, what do you think would be different had you not gone to Sweden? Not to say that you regret that by any means, because I know you had an amazing time in Sweden. Um, I don't know. I think the main reason whybably broke up is just because our paths on separate ways. You wanted to go to college, I had to travel and party, and we didn't really maturely.

We didn't fight about it, we didn't do anything. We just kind of whin our separate ways. Um. I don't I still I don't know. I don't know if I would have had it to travel as much because I just got back from Sweden, so I was like, I gotta go, go go. I think you've always kind of had that bug, which is good. Um when you left for Sweden, I remember you were planning on leaving to Sweden for a while, right, And that was basically the trenches of our relationship, right. We were like very hot

and into it and whatever it was. And I remember the day that you officially ended up leaving, browd was over there to say goodbye to you as well. And as I said that final goodbye, I was driving away in my car with Brad sitting right next to me, my brother, and I like literally had to pull over the side of the road because I sat there and

sobbed for like ten minutes. I don't know if I ever told you that, but I literally did it, and I swear to God, and I just felt so bad for my brother because he must have been so uncomfortable. But I literally had to pull the car over. I sat there and I was like I'm sorry, like I just need a second. And I was like literally like bawling my eyes out for like ten minutes because at the end of the day. I mean, I did love you, and I knew that I wasn't gonna be able to

get a year after that. Yeah, and that was actually a big issue when I was gone for a whole year. That whole time I was gone, I was like, Okay, it's been a year. I haven't talked to him because there's no Facebook and stuff like that. Back then, I mean emailed each other. But when I came back, I was like, okay, over him, and I don't get back together with him because it was really hard. And um, I really tried hard, not just like to kind of agoge you when I came back so I could move

one yet that did it. But I do remember. I do remember we would maybe exchange one email per day, and they were like these long novels, and like every single day I would constantly refresh my email just to see, like, had you been emailing me. I don't know, it's funny to talk about because obviously that's so so long ago.

And um, whenever I tell people that, you know, I really the only love that I've ever been in my entire life was with a girl that I did in high school, people are like, oh, you were sixteen seventeen years old doesn't necessarily account. But at the end of the day, what I think it was, it was a feeling. It wasn't necessarily age thing rightly, No, I think we're really immature about it. And we had a lot of fun and I don't know, it was different. It was different,

but different is good. I think at the end of day we can say different. Um, all right, Carmelo, I know you're at work. I don't want to take up too much more of your time. You're amazing and I know this has kind of happened on a whim. Um, thank you. Thank you for taking the time to jump on the phone and talk about our awkward relationship when we were seventeen years old. All right, Well, you're awesome. Take care. I'll talk to you soon, alright later, alright.

By transitioning from my high school ex girlfriend to Shari Healy, who is a life coach, Um, I helps dozens of people on a daily basis to to not only improve their life, but be happier and and just kind of you know, be better right soul read, Do you mind

introducing yourself telling us a little bit about you? Sure? Hi? Everyone, Hey, Dean, Um I call myself a possibilitarian, so it helps people understand them a little bit more of the difference between what is a life coach and what's a therapist and what do you do for me? So being a possibilitarian, I believe that anything truly is possible, and it's the hardest thing for me to watch people hold back in life, not becoming who they're here to be or do what

they're here to do. So the bottom line is I help people get what they want, So you help people unlock their true potential. It sounds like, yeah, yeah, I think we all have limitless potential and we usually just get stuck, right. We hold back because we have fears and doubts. And it sounds like that's a theme for you. Was what was coming up in your last call um, holding back, having walls around our heart and and not

wanting to really open up and be who we truly are. Well, so how do you help someone get through that then, because there definitely is a certain level of fear to opening up to someone because when you're that vulnerable, right, you're kind of setting yourself up to be hurt more. At least that's the way I look at it. So how do you help someone kind of push through that mindset. Yeah, well that is one potential, right, You could get hurt, and that's a risk that we have to take in love.

Love is messy, right, But the payoff I see is greater connection, greater intimacy. Right. That's that's the real game we're playing. Is I think if I win at this, I'll actually get closer to this person than anyone I've ever been to if I if I open up enough. So I think that's the way to kind of shortcut the fear is to say, I'm going to take this risk knowing that a I'm not going to die, you know, like we have to talk about what the real risk is. You're not going to die, but yes, could you get

your feelings hurt? Could you feel rejected as lutely? So? Your greater reason is deep love? Right of course. And here's another issue that I have with that. I think that fear aside, because there is definitely a certain level of fear too. I just think that telling my story is boring for whoever is listening to it. I feel like, you know, like I don't want to sit there and talk about myself for an extended period of time when I don't even find the story interesting, So how could

I expect someone else too? And that's why I constantly deflect with questions about the other person, because I'm more interested in them telling me their story than me telling them my story. Right. Well, see, you just got to a really cool truth about yourself. You actually genuinely just want to give, right, you want to give to her. You want to, you know, do more for someone else,

which is a really great intention. And if you flip it a little bit and know that what your story does for a woman or somebody that you are trying to connect with is the more depth and range you have, the more emotional capacity, the rd er she can open up. So it's like we have this weird way of kind of like following your lead, right, And if you come in like with this ability to really take down your

walls and show her yourself, then she will too. I guess another issue I have it, Well, we're talking about it. I'll just I'll keep talking about the issues that I experienced in any relationship. I don't want to be treated differently for sake of pity or someone feeling sorry for me. So by sharing a story of losing my mother when I'm fifteen, or uh, some trial or tribulation that I had to go through at some certain age that made

me who I am now. It's it's kind of setting someone up to be like, oh, I'm going to treat him this way because he had a hard time then, and I don't want that to happen. I want someone to either you know, like me or dislike me for the person I am now, not the person that I was before. Yeah, and I get that. Your your belief is that if I do this, we instantly get to go to the pity, and that's so emasculating. You don't

need that. So I think it's more important to tell the story as like I'm going to share this with you because I want you to know me, or I want you to be closer to me. And you can be very clear, I don't need anything from you. I just want you to know me. This is something that I hold. It can sometimes have me close up, It can make me not always be as open as i'd like to. And then there's this cool option that she has to say, hey, babe, are you doing that closing

down thing? And she can learn how to bring your walls down, Like we heard your your love language is touch right. Yeah, so you guys could have a shortcut where she knows that if she just touches you enough, but maybe some of the walls will come back down. You know, it's just good to know where our triggers are. I think that's a super generous way to be in relationship, to let somebody know where your land mines are and what your patterns are. You know, it's ultimately your responsibility

to deal with them. But if somebody comes in and loves you, she's saying, look, I'm gonna tread lightly around me. Okay, gotcha? Also all right, so again we're here with Shriekhie life coach slash possibilitarian. All right, so s I guess my follow up question is are you possibilitarian or life coach with relationships or does it span all genres of life? I guess, oh yeah, now it's all things. I think. You know, I'm not the girl that anybody can really

put into a box. You don't put baby into a corner, and so you know, in this business, everybody wants to put you in a box and say do you do work? Do you do relationships do you do you know this or that? And I think they're all connected. You know, if I'm going to talk to you about your career, no doubt, we're going to talk about how you're showing up in your relationships and vice versa. So it's it's kind of all of it, gotcha. I love that? Okay?

Well so, and I think that's good too, because I kind of think that gives you the ability to touch a lot more people in a lot more ways, right, instead of kind of, like you said, putting yourself in a box. Yeah. And I'm just I'm so fascinated and obsessed with life in general and all the things. So I've studied my face off from my whole life in every area, so I have this way of just I have tools for everything. Like you and I could talk

for hours, I'm sure. So it's all good. Great, Okay, well so sure, So on that note, then, do you mind if we move over to some emails that some listeners had submitted and we can maybe diagnosed from there. Yeah, okay, So I have one here from Kayla, and what she says is, Dean, I have been involved with the same guy for two years now. We basically act like we're dating, but we just say that we're friends. Everything with him and I as a secret to his family, but to

family weren't open. I'm sorry to my family, weren't open. Book. I always get worried that he's out with another girl or doing something to hurt me. I'm just so sick of wasting time on somebody who keeps me a secret constantly. Any advice on what to do for this? And she alolly have the floor with this one. Yeah, Well my first instinct is to say, how does this make her feel?

To constantly be held as a secret. And there's there's an optimal mode for women, and there's an optimal mode for men, and the optimal mode for us as women is that we're self expressed, meaning we can be ourselves, we can be out there, we have freedom right to just stay and do and be whoever we are. And she's basically just to build out exactly what we were just talking about, being held in a box. And so she's in a win and a lose lose really because she'll never get to a place where she can be

fully self expressed because he's holding her completely back. Why hide, right? So I'm not sure what she's getting out of it. You know, she's never going to be able to fully show him all of her, and he will never be able to love all of hers. So I think what we do in order to play safe is we settle for last. Right, she's settling for very little. I agree.

I think that she needs to step up and do something about it, whether it's encourage him to introduce her to the family, or even just remove herself from the situation if she's uncomfortable, if she's not happy, which it clearly sounds like she's not all right. So some having on to the next one. This is kind of contradictory to to my problem is this one's from Emma? She says, my major problem is that I get attached way too quick, and maybe I tend to overshare and be a little

overwhelming very quickly into the relationship. When is it okay to start having personal conversations as a person. I come with a lot of personal baggage, uh family issues, and I feel like if someone wants to date me, they have to the right to know all I am carrying on my back. How should I go about it? Help? Yeah, do you have any thoughts on that? First well, I mean, I know what I do, but clearly it's not necessarily

the right way to go about it. Is I just kind of keep it under the swept under the carpet, right. I don't necessarily overshare initially, um, because again I don't want to to kind of overburden the relationship too early on. So what do you think, right? Right? Well, okay, here's my role for dating sort fast. I think it's really important to just put it on the table know each other as quickly as possible so that you can move

on to the next person. Right, So, she wants to put it out there, and I think here's this tricky thing with guys. You know, if she puts it all out there and she looks like a lost soul and a giant victim because she's got so much happening in her life, then it's going to take a special guy who wants to come in and save her or help her solve that problem. Most guys, really early on, not knowing you that well, are going to go, oh, that seems like a lot of drama or baggage that I

don't know if I can handle. So the way to share it in a way that's not scary is to think about. There's sort of three aspects of a woman that men are looking for, and ultimately, when you meet a woman who has all three, you know you you have to have her. So it's really coming across as a woman who's got it all together as uh, having a maternal side like a mother's side, lover side which is that sexy part, and a queen like I got it together, I got my world, I've got this handled.

So she's us right, and so she has all of those and that she's nurturing and she's got the sexy and she's got her act together. She can say, look from a really vulnerable place, this is my reality, this is what I've got going on, and be open in a way that is strong and you know, also willing to receive from you and how you might come in and help her. I think there's a great opportunity to get really close in that conversation. It's just she's got

to have two feet on the ground when she shares it. Yeah, I can get behind that idea. I think that's that definitely makes some sense. Yeah, alright, so moving on to the next one. And sure I don't necessarily know the range of your the people that you help, right in terms of age, So this one is coming from anonymous um, and Audrey actually has the same problem as well. She says, I've been dating this guy that I feel like really sucks at communicating and I can attest, I mean I

can I can empathize with that. When I tried to bring up the talk about where he sees this going or what he wants out of this, he says, I see myself in a relationship with you someday. What does someday mean? And will you help her out? And I guess this kind of is more centric to like the millennial fan base, right, because I think that as you skew younger and younger, you tend to see this type

of behavior in in these people. Right, Someone that may be as as um Audrey says, as wants to have their cake and eat it too, right, UM, So what kind of advice do you have for that? Do you do you want this person or would you recommend, you know, continuing to spin their wheels and hoping for the best, or is it may be better to to kind of remove themselves at that point? Well, there's sort of two parts you have to think about What is a woman asking for when she says I want somebody who's really

good at communicating. She's asking for safety and certainty. She wants to know where you stand, she wants to know where the relationship is. She's asking for a container. Right. So if a guy can come in and say, like, I can love the hell out of you tonight, and that's all I got, that's your container, and she can spread out and that if she wants, or she can say no, I need more than that, all right, So good communicator says like, this is what I can give you.

And I think what we find with the younger ones is it's helpful to know the stages of development for men. So when you're dealing with a millennial, right, or somebody in the ages of like their twenties anywhere from like thirteen to twenties, they're in this phase is called being

a night. Like if if you think about the phases, it's from birth to thirteen you're a page, and then thirteen to the late twenties you become a night, and then early thirties up intol like forty five, you're a prince, and then ultimately you become a queen, a king, seen you totally can so. But in but in that night phase where the millennials are right, the only thing that is paramount to most. I mean this is making a generalization,

but it's fun. It's done an adventure like think about a night right, It's about going out of the forest and exploring. And if she looks like she might be a fun companion, then he's going to want to hang around with her. He's going to want to be with her. Right, but someday, he's referring to, I'm going to get serious when I become a prince and I'm not there yet, and I can't give you that yet. He which is fair. She's got to be cool with where he's at, or

date somebody older who has more to give. Yeah, that's that's that's great advice. I guess I've neverally thought of life in stages like that, but I can see where you're coming from. All right, should you have one? More users submitted I'm sorry listeners submitted email for you, and this one's from Abby. She says, I've heard of the three date rule and even the five date rule, but I have trouble following rules. I mean I do too

as well. I guess, so, Yeah, if I'm attracted to a person and the first date is going well, am I supposed to wait to sleep with them? Even though I want to. I don't think that I would want to be with a guy whose respect for me depends on me playing hard to get. Would you respect a woman less if she slept with you on your first date? I guess to flip it, like, would you think that a man and who's dating would respect a woman less for sleeping with them on the first date? Yeah, what

do you think you're the man? I think that if there's I never would advise it, I would never condone it. But I think that there if there's an incredible spark there and you're acting on your instinct and it feels right, I think that it's perfect, perfectly permissible. Right, Yeah, I think it is. I asked this question to relationship expert literally last year. David Data is really well known author, incredible human, and I asked him, there's a very same question,

so we'll we'll give you what he said. He said, rules are from morons, and I totally died laughing, And I thought, that's the best thing I've ever heard. Because I don't like rules so much either, but we get caught up in them, right because there's so many dating. And he said, if there's a real conscious connection and there's a container, you know, like I said before, if you're both very clear about what you're both willing to give, and you're showing up like wholeheartedly and it's yes for

you guys, then yes, you do it. You don't hold back and you don't play games by any means. But I'll tell you where the line draws for me that there are sort of two kinds of attraction. One is pure sexual what we call chemistry, and one is more heart connection. And when you're in a pure sexual connection, it's going to cause some kind of fallout, right because you're gonna come together have sex, and then it's going to be like, oh my god, why didn't he call.

Now there's all this expectation of like we need to when we need to put a label on this, we need to figure this out. Everybody goes a little like cuckoo. If if it isn't that heart connection, wherein the heart connection, he will call again and you will have more to explore and he won't disrespect you because there was more of a give you know, like I really I'm attracted to you, be on just your body. I actually want

to make you happy. And and that kind of deeper connection says to me, yes, you kind of have sex right away if that's there, if it's just pure sex, it needs to be spoken about and declared before you jump in. And I think that kind of goes back to what you were saying initially, um, just about what you've been doing it. It's it's bad to put those

types of things into a box. It's bad to put yourself into a box, but it might be even worse to put a relationship into a box to where you're because I mean, you have to assess everything on a case by case basis, right, You can't have one overarching rule for every relationship that you're going to be in, right right, Yeah, it's there. And that's why relationship is so hard for people because they want to just nail it. They wanted to just stay the same, right, Nothing nothing

stays the same for sure. Our emotions don't write, especially with women's emotions. And and why when you are more free with yours, you know, then that storm that can constantly be changing between the two of you can get really excited and interesting. That's something that you have to be scared of, absolutely, all right, suree, Well, thank you so much for the time. Do you mind sharing your website for the listeners so they can check it out if they want to. Yeah, sure, it's sure Healy dot

com and I'll spell it out. H E R I E H E A L E Y perfect. Tree. You're amazing. Thank you so much for the advice. UM. Look forward to maybe having on again some time if you're willing, and I would love that. That's amazing. All right, We'll take care and we'll talk to you soon, all right, can't wait? All right? Bye bye, all right Tree Heally, Ladies and gentlemen. She's great. I love she seems like such a free spirit. She seems like just just a

great person to hang out with. UM, and I didn't really I can relate to that on a lot of levels. I think that her mindset of not wanted to live life within the confines of structure or rules is a great way to go about it. I think that just being able to act uninhibited and do what makes you happy in acting on an impulse, well, it can be bad, sometimes can be really good, all right. So that'll just about do it. For episode three of Help I Suck

at Dating? I want to give another big thank you to Shari Heally, Possibilitarian, Carmel, the first level of my life of course, Rachel Lindsay, and Brian Abasolo who so graciously agreed and talked very openly about the relationship. Now. I think that, um, it was a good episode. I think that every guest was was was awesome, and I hope to continue this streak of awesomeness. So next week we're gonna have a question do you suck at dating? If you refuse to sext? And I personally refuse to sext.

I am so anti sexting, regardless of how long distance the relationship is, regardless of how long we've been apart for It's just something I don't do. It just feels dirty to me, and I I know that there are people out there that condone it and suggest it, especially for the long distance relationships. I just can't wrap my head around the idea I will. I would never ask for someone to sex to me, and I certainly would never sex to anyone else. But that's the question for

next week. That's a topic. Do you suck at dating if you won't sext email us at. I suck at dating at I heeart media dot com, no spaces, no periods. I suck at a t dating at iHeartMedia dot com. This has been Dean with help. I suck at dating. Thank you for listening. I think we're making some ground here. I think we're getting somewhere. I hope you tune in next week because maybe I'll suck a little bit less

at dating. Follow help. I Suck at Dating with Dean Anglert on I Heart Radio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And it was sloppy outra