#24 Kendall & Jared

It's the best seat though. I wanted that seat, and you stole it. You can take it. I smell gasoline a little bit. I spread gasoline on myself on the way here. I was like, I'm gonna fill my car up, and then it just like went all over my clothes. I thought it was wonderful, perfuming. I rarely like the gasol. We actually we're talking about that. Yeah. I was hoping that people here would like the small gasoline because I

do freak of it. It is a really, really, really nice older Jared, we know you from Caitlin season of the Bachelorette, and uh and Kendall, we know you from this most recent with Ari. So it's so nice to have you guys here. We're excited to hear about your experiences on on those fine programs. Uh. Because you know, Dean, who normally hosts this show was on the Bachelorette with Rachel Lindsay. So we have a nice bachelor family. We're

kind of cultivating here. Uh. But but I want to get to know you guys beyond what we saw on the show. So um, you know, we that's what our that's where our plan is today really quick, while we have Becca, while we still have you here, we're talking on Becca's show, which is Scrubting with Becca Tilly. You can listen at an iHeart Radio podcast about day hooking up with siblings or cousins and kind of dipping into

the family when going for a romantic excursion. Just to clarify, not cousins, hooking up with cousins, like like a separate person from a separate family, hooking up with one person from a family and then hooking up with another person from the same thing, not family. That's only in Arkansas, and that's only for third cause yeah, I mean, I know nothing about Arkansas, but I just wanted to clarify. I don't even know if that's Arkansas, but Arkansas people are gonna be mad. I I could say the same

about Louisiana as well, which is where I'm from. So please don't yell at me or say anything bad to me. And people think of the same thing about Rhode Island, so totally totally understandable. Yeah, sometimes cousins have given you. Yeah, you never know, right, you can't help me. I'm gonna do it. A lot of common like jeans and stuff. Yeah, yeah, we're just compatible. It's science. But but where do you

guys stand on that? Like if you if you date someone and then years down the line you you maybe developed something with their brother or someone else, Like, is there any time where that's okay? Because it happened to me once and it did not end very well. Just really quick, you know, I'll give a short version of this, But um, I diated youngly when I was in high school. She was my friends older sister actually, and uh yeah, it gets it gets a little bit worse. We had

a we had a nice time. We dated for a year and then we broke up and I stayed friends with her twin sister. We just stayed friends with each other, and years later, uh, romantic feelings started to rise to the surface, and we we hooked up a couple of times. How did it end with the previous sister? The It didn't badly, It just ended. And then you just stayed friends with her sister. Stay friends with the sister. That's

so interesting. How did that happen? It just was like, oh, well, this isn't working out, but your sister is really cool, so I'll stay friends still. She's pretty were the identical twins, fraternal twins. As a twin myself, I actually am friends with one of the guys that my sister used to date. Not romantically, yeah, but still friends. Well, just wait a couple of years, because eventually it will be romantic. It's

not romantic yet, just give it time. You get really close, like as a twin, you get really close to, you know, everyone that's in your sister's life, and so I can understand that. Yeah, yeah, I felt kind of thing about staying Rensler, but we had we really did have a good friendship, and it's it's something that I missed now because she she developed some romantic, really strong and antic feelings for me and we hooked up, but I didn't I could not do that. I didn't want to date

both sisters. I just wanted to hook up with one and date even I had a line, so I hooked up with her. She said she wanted to date me. I said I can't do that and she said, well goodbye, and we have not spoken since then. I don't know. That's so interesting though, because it's such a fine line, because I understand why people wouldn't want to kind of step in that. But having said that, how many of us are single, So like, if you do find a connection with somebody, is it wrong to not act on it?

That's the thing. What are your what are your thoughts about that? Being a twin sister, Like if you found a connection with a guy that your sister used to date and you were like, well, I'm single. It's hard to find somebody that I really enjoy spending time with. And here's somebody that I actually really look forward to seeing, but I feel like I can't date them because they used to date my sister years ago. Don't you think as that like time goes on kind of you know,

time heals all wounds type thing. I think it would mainly, Um, I would probably check in with my sister first. If my sister wasn't comfortable with it, I would in no way to do it right. But if she was said, oh, it's totally fine friends now, like it didn't end in a bad way and um, misshoes open to it, then I would feel like I had the green light. But other than that, is it weird though? Because you're identical,

Like you're identical twins. So like in my head, if I had an identical twin and be like, so he likes so I look, but he doesn't like my personality. Like he's like, I'm physically attracted her, but like there's something else, miss thing, So I'm gonna the other twin. But we attract different kinds of people. Um, because our personalities are so kind of like puzzle pieces, we're opposite,

we kind of fit together in some way. Um, with guys, usually she'll actually being two guys that are more like me, and I'll be in two guys are more like her in a weird way because we're used to that balance. Interesting, that's really interesting. It makes sense though, I guess it makes sense. Yeah, I never really thought it in those terms. I know, it's it's a weird. It's a weird thing.

But I find that we feel what the other person is lacking because we grew up together as like one in some way, and so you know, and I agree with what you said in terms of like go in to your sister first and kind of not asking for permission, but just having an adult conversation about Okay, we found a connection. Can we see if this words goes like how do you feel about this? Because like, if you get married to this guy that's her, that's her brother

in law, you know, that's forever hopefully. I mean, I've never I've never dated anybody that my sister has dated, um, and she hasn't dated anyone that I've dated. So I can't necessarily say how I would feel because I don't know how that would feel. But it would be a little weird. Yeah, do you ever have like twin intuition? Like do you ever just like think and you're like, I know exactly what she's feeling and thinking right now? Oh yeah, definitely, that's so cool her and know exactly

what how she's feeling. What if she gets like a paper cut, do you feel it? It's kind of like the Force from Star Wars. You just feel disturbance in the force. Something's wrong with my sister. Well, one time when we were younger, my sister fell and hit her head on a table and I started crying. You're in opposite rooms. Oh, it hasn't happened since then, but I'd like to think that I feel you know her feelings. Yeah, but that's like once is enough. No, seriously, thank you

so much for hanging out, beck At. Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to ask you to leave securities waiting for you outside. They're escorting me scrubbing it with Becky Tilly. You can catch that on I Heart Radio. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me alright, so getting you to know you guys. I reached out to you the other day and I asked, what's your biggest relationship issue? There's too many,

too many to name? Really, Yeah, four four episodes of Excuse Me, four seasons of The Bachelor, and still single, so obviously there's something wrong. But um, but you guys, you did come up with something, you know, really good stuff that people can really relate to. And I and you sent them to me, and I'd like to read them out loud if you don't mind. Jared revealed to me that he lets in securities get the best of him, which doesn't allow him to open up to women, and

he's nervous about finding out that he's a train wreck. Well, I'm nervous about them finding out he's I'm a train wreck, because, like, nobody knows yourself better than you, right, Like I know every thought that's in my head, I know every action I take, and so when people are like, you're such a good guy, and I'm like, I like, it's hard to like kind of live up to those expectations. And so I think it's difficult for me at times because I think I let insecurities get the best of me.

I think what I do really well as I put on a really good first impression, and so the first day to the first couple of days go really well, and then after that I have a very difficult time of I hate this expression, but it's the truth. Letting my walls down to a certain extent, not because there's something wrong with them or not because I'm not willing to take a chance, but more so I'm nervous about them finding out that I'm not the guy that they think I am and that's a really hard thing for

me to accept. And so there's this great quote that I love and it's about it deals with kind of depression actually, and it talks about like people being depressed when they try to become the Wizard of Oz to put on this persona of who they think they are, when an actuality, they're just the sweaty guy behind the curtain, desperately trying to hold everything together because one will slip

and everything falls apart. So that's sometimes in my own dating life for the past few I mean for the past pretty much like six years i've been single, because I think I've had every a difficult time of kind of diving in head first, um, because I I usually get in my own head and overthink things, and so with me sometimes I'm like, I don't want them to know that I don't have my you know, stuff together. And so that's one of the one of my big issues with dating, and so I've been called out on it.

I've had women called me out and say like, you're not You're gonna end up alone because you don't let anybody in, and I'm like, you're right, You're absolutely right. Well it's interesting because when you're on the show, I think people have an expectation of who you are because only part of you is seen and it is a dating show, so you're like, well, I this is how I am, and so I feel like maybe that also has a part to do with it as well. I

think it does too. But I've also had women now, whether they're telling the truth or not, I'm not really sure, but tell me, like I have you know, I've never seen the show. I never I don't know who you are,

and so that's actually very appealing for me. But they've also you know, I they've also been like you seem like somebody that's very difficult to really because it's interesting because they're like, you're somebody who seems very vulnerable and yet the complete like but that's also very shut off

at the same time. And so I think for me, it's like I can be vulnerable about a lot of it, like a lot of things I love to talk about other people, but when it comes to me, I don't like talking about myself, and I think that becomes that's it stems from my own insecurities about me, and so sometimes like I think, I do you know, I try the best of I try my best to not let those insecurities get the best of me. I try to stay confident in what I try to do um is live.

I try to live my life kind of like along Gal's book You're Not That Great, where I instead of like building myself up and say this is what I deserve, I tried to say, listen, other people are having these same thoughts that you are, Like, other people are insecure. Other people have doubts about themselves, Like yes, they can put on facade and confidence is great, but people still have insecurities, and so I try to think of it

that way. It's kind of like when you're in a school project and they tell you, imagine the entire audience naked, like if you have to do a presentation, and the reason they do that is to make you feel comfortable, so you're kind of so they feel embarrassed to type thing because you go up there and you're naturally going to feel shy and embarrass but if you see and you picture everybody naked, you're like, oh, that's silly, Like I can have fun with this. I personally think that

there's beauty in imperfection. I completely agree, because then you're more relatable if you're a perfect person, and um, it's almost like impenetrable like emotionally, emotionally, then I feel like people don't They don't really want to. They find it really hard to dive into love for that person. But the imperfection is the thing that makes you beautiful totally. But I think I hear from a lot of girls to like, oh, he's so good looking, or he's so mysterious,

or he's so charming, and he's so like confident. That's like what they're so attracted to. And here I am being like, oh, I I like Star Wars? Do you like Star Wars? Too? And it's like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know. I mean I think just putting it all out there, you know, just like

being like beautifully broken, like I love that. I like just I think the one thing that I was trying to do while I was on the show, or in just in any relationship in general, is I try to just like be so purely myself that really they're kind of it's like either you take it or you leave it. But do you think that scares peop all away? Um? I mean I hasn't yet I mean sometimes and sometimes I'm not people's cup of tea. I totally get it. But um, let me say this about Kendall. We've won

a couple of times. But Kendall, not only strikingly beautiful, but you are strikingly intelligent than you and so I consider myself a conversationalist, but you are somebody that like you are right there, like you are only appreciate that You're very welcome, You're very intelligent. It's it's something that it comes out of you, very like it's like a

really good first impression. Well you as well. I mean, I think that one thing that we were talking a little bit earlier, and the one thing that was refreshing is that it's so difficult to find people that you feel like challenged with, you know, and so um, that's one thing that I also have trouble with dating, is I like to be with someone that I feel like I'm not talking at I'm talking with. Did you feel

challenged with Ari? I know that's a deep question, but hey, I gotta ask no. I mean, of course I felt like with Ari we were so folcused on just having fun and making I was kind of I think our relationship was like the escape from all the crazy serious talks. I really don't think we had a lot of really serious conversations. Um and in a way, I mean, it wasn't that I didn't feel I felt challenged emotionally. Definitely, I felt like I, UM, in relationships, I tend to

be very UM. I think I just tend to be a little bit guarded in the sense where I don't really like to let myself go emotionally and UM, with him, I was definitely challenging that, oh totally. I think going into the Bachelor world it forces you to make those challenges and really open yourself up, because if you don't open yourself up, you're on that bus ride home night one, and that's the last place you want to be. And so if you don't open up and let yourself kind

of fall into the process, then you're done. And so I think the Bachelor really forces you to do that. And with me, with Caitlin was actually very intimidating. I'll never forget my first night. I was almost not certainly not scared of Camel that's an overexaggeration, but like she is very similar where she is so witty and so funny and obviously strikingly beautiful, and it's just like everything that you say, she's got something coming back at you. And I was like, oh my god, like she's way

cooler than me. I don't know, like I'm supposed to be the charming one. I'm going home. And then of course, like as time goes on, they just become you know, everything becomes normalized and you have conversations blah blah blah

blah blah. But um, but that's cool. It's very interesting to hear and Kendall, that actually leads into your answer for your you know, when your relationship issues, if we can call it that, that you you're afraid to lose yourself in a relationship and you do feel guarded and you find it difficult to balance family and friends with romantic relationships because you're gonna get really wrapped up with the other person. Is that something that you've always kind

of had problems with? Um? Yeah, I mean I love people. I tend to like give myself so much to relationships because, um, I just want to find out everything about the person, and I have all these crazy questions and I tend to just get ripped wrapped up in that world, and um, I'm extremely close with my family and friends, have a very awesome support system, and um, their relationships suffer sometimes because I just like dive so much into it. You wait,

you your relationships suffers? Are their relationships? Their relationship suffers with me? I mean it's okay, so like you're the type of girl. I'm not judging, but like, are the type You're that girl that if you get a boyfriend, you are with them all the time and you never see your fan family and friends. You know. So what it is is that, Um, I think I I always put other people's feelings kind of above my own in

some sense. Um, And when I am in a relationship, I feel like, well, first of all, my parents, UM, and my friends have never really liked anyone that I've dated. There's some people, there's some some of the guys that they've liked, UM, but I think the guys I really get into are the ones that they don't really like as much. So I almost feel like it's a challenge where um, am I choosing them or I choosing my friends and family or the person in a relationship with

Why is that? Are they kind of like the rebel or the Bad Boy. Do you like the bad boys? Um? I mean, I've definitely dated like the quote unquote bad boy, but it's not so much that I think I tend. I tend to date people who are I guess like that don't have a strong friend group as well interesting, so they're kind of loners, you know. I don't want to label them as loners. It's more you're saying I'm more independent. I mean, Um, I have my family and

friends are very overwhelming, a very big group. So when I introduced someone to that world, I think they could be a little intimidated by that. And then whenever I hang out in a group with my significant other, I kind of just I kind of just leave them alone and go with my family and friends and hang out with them. And I tend to have my more white one on one time totally. So you're like a guy who's like a one man wolf pack. As they say,

I mean, I want them to be able to. I mean, the problem that I've had with dating is that people that I date, they don't necessarily they can't really be on their own, you know, Like I want someone that can be in a group of my friends and family and not feel intimidated and actually be curious to learn

about them. Totally. I've always said to the type of girl that I want is somebody that really is the life of the party, Like somebody that can come into my circle of friends and family and just fit right in and also not only fit in, but somebody that my family and friends are like, I want to hang out with them, like even at times being like, yeah, I want to I want to hang out with your girlfriend and not you, because that's okay with me because that means that they love them and they see why

I love them as well exactly, So that's certainly I can totally, um, you know, agree with you on that aspect, because then I feel guilty. I feel guilty that, um, who do I give time to? Like I see the person that I'm dating and they're kind of sitting by themselves, not really interacting with anybody, and like, do I I go to cater to that? But at the same time, it's like when you're in a relationship with somebody, you

see them a lot. Totally. I remember one of my former relationships was some conversations you had was that she had a very difficult time balance in that because her family she had one sister they were super close um, and then a single mom as well that she was super close with. And so like here comes a guy, but you know, who's kind of taking their sister away from them a little bit. And so she was always She even told me one time, she was like, listen,

I need to put you on the back burner. I need you to be second place right now, because I need to put my mom and sister for us, because they spending so much time with you that they just feel like they don't know who I am anymore. And plus this was also college. She was going away from college spending time with her boyfriends. She didn't like have a lot of time to spend with her mom and sister. And so I remember, I'll never forget that conversation because

we just talked about it. And as a guy like that, obviously like you know that conversation. I mean, I I don't know. I mean, not only it was great, I mean not saying it was a bad conversation, just saying the idea that it's almost like a challenge between your love for people. Of course, you know, like I don't, I mean, it's it's not a competition. And if it if you like, make it a competition then end it's in your head totally. And I also think like life

is just about balance. That's I'm a firm believer in balance, and you have to find balance within your life, your career, your love, your family, your friends, whatever your hobbies are. Like everything is about balance. And so I totally agree in terms of love like balancing. Okay, I love this person more than anything. I want to spend the rest of my life with them. Having said that, I also love my family and friends and I want to show that love by spending time with them. Like one of

my five love languages, this quality time. So like that is a big thing for me. Um. So it's it's always difficult. It's always gonna be hard. But I think one aspect of relationships that is kind of being overlooked is sacrifice. Like people are free, I feel like in today's world, because there's somebody's options, especially being you know, having a single life in Los Angeles. Holy moly, Like it just sucks dating in l A. I will say,

it's horrible, right because there's so many options. The idea of dating l A. This is what a day l A is. You're at dinner with another person, and then the person is not looking at you, they're looking over their shoulder at other options because they're looking at to see if something is better out there, and that is Los Angeles dating, Like, it's just there's well, I think it's just so there's a lot of sparkly things. You know, there's so many sparkly things. There's a lot of attractive

people in l A. And it's great. At the same time, it's uh, I mean when I was using dating apps, um, I feel like it'd be very difficult to put a lot of work into one relationship because oh, there's something else and it doesn't really matter if there's a little bit of trouble here, I can just move on and

not have to worry about that, of course. And then like people are making up excuses to break up with people, not because they don't want to be with that person, but because there are so many options it's almost too much choose from. They're like, oh, their second toe is bigger than their big toes, so I can't be with them. I'm gonna go on you know, my dating app and be exposed to thousands of good looking at people. And l A is not really a relationship city. I mean,

I'm just traveling around. I went to Barcelona, and that's a relationship city. Like there's so many beautiful couples, like amazing things to do as a couple. And in l A there really I mean, you can go hiking, but even hiking is kind of like a singles activity here. Yeah, you don't like bowling bowling day, I'm a big bullet. I have a bad experience with bowling. If you saw if you saw my season. Oh, I forgot about that. I can't believe I brought that up. What a coincidence. Yeah,

that was an interesting night. Well, we have a life coach on the line actually to help out with all these all these questions. This is Shari Heally and she is a certified life coach. She's sue you there. Yeah, I'm here. H So you're on with with Jared and Kendall here, and I understand we sent you in their relationship in securities. Yeah, you did excellent. Here. We're excited to hear what you have to say. I'm nervous. Yeah, we need some coaching. Okay, who's the bravest He's going first?

You know, I find that Kendall's very brave, gonna go for it. I'm ready to bring it on. Okay, well, here's what came up for me when I read what you wrote. Kendall, tell me, what is the thing that's most important to you in life? Um? I think the most important thing to me is I want people that I'm surround with to be happy. I want everyone to have a positive experience, Like I don't know, I love

in general. Right, Okay, what does that give you? When you get to be around everyone who's happy, when you get to provide that for that, what does it give to you? Um? I think it just makes life more enjoyable. I mean, I'm happy when other people are happy, and I'm not really a drama person. I like to avoid

that at all costs. So, um, when other people are happy, I just feel like it's I mean, I'm living life the way I'm supposed to be living it as opposed to focusing on I've just I don't know all the drama of all the things. Right. So you have a strategy with relationships that says you have to make someone else happy at all costs. Yeah? Yeah, And where does that leave you? Um? I think it just I think

it just leaves me. Um, I mean, I really don't focus a lot on how I'm feeling with things because I want to be sensitive to other people and I don't want to come across as like selfish or that I'm not caring about someone else UM in a relationship, because I mean, I've been called on that, but called out on that before, right right, So it leaves like you said, your strategy is to make others happy because you would then be able to be in a more

enjoyable life. You would be able to relax. It sounds I can be exactly, but that's not what's happening, right, No, usually ends up being a tug of war battle between UM trying to make family and friends happy and then also trying to make my significant other happy in your competition, right right? And then you have this blueprint, now, this idea of relationship that it means you have to give up everything you know and fully focused on this one person, and then at the end you know you might have

nothing left. So I no wonder you don't want to go into fantastic I think we'd all be single off that where to get exactly Yeah, And that's why I mean That's why I've had a lot of trouble dating because I almost feel like it becomes that it becomes a competition, and then by me continuing the relationship, I'm choosing the relationship over my family and friends, which isn't necessarily a competition. I even want to have no no so here, Okay, what I would call you is a

professional giver, you know, like that's them. I mean, I think it's like a double edged sword. I want to be a professional giver it right, but it is, it is a total double edged sword. And what tricky is when you're in a relationship with someone who's masculine, they are in their in their highest, in their best right, they want to give to you. And so you're getting into this like out giving competition. And the thing that men look for in relationship is a woman who can

receive what they want to give. It doesn't really seem bounced to me. Yeah, it's it's a dance, right, It's never going to be like total. But the ideal relationship is one where both partners are giving, Like you're both giving tients, right, But the trick for you is to, like I would just go with what you're good at if you're a professional giver, let's just make you an

even better giver. And this is like a big one for me because I'm same and so many people I work with want to change the world and want to do great things for others. That you're kind hearted, you know, But to take it to the next level, you've got to take on this belief that the more you want to give, the more you need. Like I always go to Oprah, like, right, she didn't build this incredible multimedia

conglomerate to change the world without any help. She wanted to make a giant impact, so she needs a lot of support. So the more you want to give happiness to others, the more you need to keep all of that energy flowing, right, Because if you get stuck and you get shut down and you're not getting what you need, you know you're going to pull back and then you're giving this tag a war in the competition, which just has you not living from your heart and not feeling

like you have what you want to give. I guess my question is, like how do I keep you? How am I supposed to be aware of that? Like what do I do in a situation um to change that? Because I naturally feel like, you know, I want to give, but in other words, like am I supposed to more so like focus on giving to myself? Or yeah, I guess it's just difficult to me for me to get

into that mindset right. Well, if you think about it, like you know, everybody always talked about putting the oxygen mask on first, you know, if you're in a craft I read the pamphlet, Yeah, I've been on Southwest once or twist right, So in any situation to get it really practical and to have that mindset, you're thinking, if I want to be the ultimate giver for this person and really make this person happy, then it also depends on my happiness, and you're constantly checking in with yourself

and saying what do I need and what would me happy? Because most likely the person that you're with is a lot like you. They also want to give to you, and if you're not giving them a chance to actually experience the joy of making you happy, then you've got the super lopsided thing. And I would sometimes call people out on that and say it's a little silvish me.

It's also the communication that I have with people that I love, like how do I let them know what I want with, you know, in in a way that doesn't make me seem because I think I tend tend to have it build up. I build up over time, and after a while I'm just like, well, I'm going to choose this person because I like them, and it's not the way I want to communicate, right, right, And

we do that, we like store up. I mean, it's an amazing thing how many like little hurts and little resentments we build out and then we explode and then you know, the relationship could be over. So it's generous, right, It's another giving act to say to somebody before you get up set, Hey, you know what it would make me so happy if still in the blank. Yeah, you know that magical words for the guys. Am I right, Like, wouldn't it be so nice that she just told you

what would make her happy? Yeah? Of course, no, absolutely, That's I was reading a study and the number one

reason why relationships fails lack of communication. And it's so true because for some reason we I don't know, I mean, as a guy, sometimes I feel very difficult to express like, Okay, this is what I like, this is what I don't like, this is what makes me happy, this is what makes me sad because it's it's it's a balance, right, It's a fine line because you want to accept the person that you love for all their flaws, because that's who

they are and that's who you love. Having said that, like sometimes that's you know, uh can be over time, I don't know how to describe it, like you don't want somebody to change, but having said that, you still want to vocalize be like, well this is something that I don't like, So I don't want you to change, but I feel like I should tell you. So it's a very fine line I feel, and I agree with Kendall where it's it's it's very how do I articulate that?

How do I tell somebody like, Okay, this is what I want and yes, you can put it on in the universe, but I think it just takes it takes a lot of guts to express what you want. It really does. Well. I'm also afraid of hurting people's feelings like constantly. Yeah, of course, I don't want to say something that would that would lead people to believe that I value someone else over them, um, you know, because it's not it shouldn't be like that. It's not a competition.

Um right, Yeah, I think if you lead with what is it that you ultimately want? Like I really want to feel close to you, or I want to protect our relationship, or I don't want to end up in a week really resentful. So can I tell you something that's really hard for me to share right now? You know, being vulnerable and this is what I wanted to share with Jared too. Is is like the new superpower. I mean, I know it is. I'm Superman. See if you want to read all the studies to like Rene Brown, the

author of Bearing Greatly is the queen of vulnerability. And it's really become like a thing that we're realizing that it is the gateway to everything that we really want to just be real with each other. Like the society of the culture we live in right now doesn't want the perfect and the polished and all the fakey fake right. We want real, want like a human being. And that takes this tone of courage. No, I've I've always said

that vulnerability is a sign of strength, not weakness. So you could stare that kindell just saying like this is super hard for me and I'm not good at this, but I know that it's going to make me a better girlfriend. I know that you're going to be with a happier woman. And frankly, I think any guy is in relationship to do one thing. If he really cares about you, he wants to make you happy, and I agree with that. Yeah, if you lead with that, then

I think it will be well received. And I think, you know, any relationship that I'm in, of course, like my ultimate goal is to make my girlfriend, fiance, wife, life partner happy. And so for her to just come to me and say, listen, this is what I want, this is what means the most to me. Um, yeah, I think it would be a really wonderful conversation to have.

You know what, I think it's funny. I think ours relates in some sense, is that, um, we don't we want to live up to the expectation that other people have of us totally. You know, I want to live up to the expectations of my friend and family. You want to live up the expectations of you know, people

that you're dating. Um, so it's just people in my life, you know, French family, the people that I value, their opinion on I want to be the guy that they think I am, you know, and so, and I try really hard, but I think it's it's it's a tough thing to accept, you know, the idea of maybe you're not as as as you know, as wonderful as other people think you are, because like nobody knows yourself better than you have said that earlier, but it's it's true.

So like there, that's where insecurities come in, that's where doubts come in. I think it almost starts with I know this is like seems one of those cliche things, but like loving who you are, like loving your in performance, embracing those and feeling like hell yeah I would date myself. Yeah, absolutely, you have to love your imperfections. Yeah, I want to present agree, But I'm not saying that's easy. That's the

only thing I'm not. Yeah, so scared. If you ever had the experience of being in a relationship with someone who did share an insecurity and it just made you like a door on her even more, Uh yeah, oh my god. Yeah, it's just I've of course, I've grown to become more attracted not only emotionally but physically as well to somebody that can just embrace their imperfections, say I love it, and it's like, yeah, I love it too. That's sexy. Yeah, So we as women want that from

you too. I don't think any of us expect to have like Hero seven, like that would also make us feel like we had to be perfect and all that. Yeah, and you were to share some more, you know, and and let more of you come out. What that does is that gives the woman the thing that she wants the most. Right. So a man wants to be able to make his partner happy, and a woman who identifies feminine right, she wants connection, She wants to know, he just wants to get up all in there and like no,

all things. I also feel like it's I'm wanting to see yourself in someone else, and by expressing your imperfections, you're able to they're able to connect with you because I'm like, oh that's I feel that way too, or I have those insecurities too, and then you feel like you can relate on that level. Yeah. What I've always done is you know, with any girl that I've ever dated with, any insecurity that she has, I will reassure her.

I mean, over and over over again. She's like I hate my elbows, and I'm like, I love your elbows, and I'll kiss their elbows or you know whatever, right, whatever insecurity they have, I want to make sure that like, no, you're great, You're wonderful. But what I don't do is I don't talk about a lot of my own insecurities.

And I think that's something that I need to start doing, because I do think that there is a relatability factor where you're like, well, like I'm insecure about something and he reassures me, which is wonderful, But he's also insecure about something too, and that makes me feel more comfortable around him. And so think, you know, not only myself, but a lot of guys in general, because I you know,

I grew up on the East Coast. I grew up like a lot of uh, you know, my my father is the most wonderful man I've ever met my entire life. But of course, you know, he's very He's a man's man, you know, like, you know, he doesn't talk about his emotions a lot, and as he gets older, actually starts talking a lot more about his emotions and his feelings, which is the most endearing and adorable thing I've ever

seen in my entire life. It really is. Yeah, Like I I've taken a lot of lessons from my parents, because my parents at a young age, it wasn't always great. They got young, like my married. My mom got married when she was twenty my dad was twenty seven, so

she was very young. She had my sister at twenty two, so like everything happened so quickly, right, and so you get married a young age like, and they had a wonderful marriage and very loving, but of course there was bad times and sometimes fights and so on and so forth. And now I've seen how love changes. That's something that I've we talked about a little bit earlier Kendall and

I about how I do believe that love changes. At the beginning, there is this puppy love stage and like you're doing laundry with somebody, your dishes and it doesn't matter. Everything is so fantastic because you're just with that person. It's lust full and it's fantastic. And then like that's going to fade over time, and that doesn't mean it's bad though. I just think that love changes, Like you're gonna go through through some things and there's gonna be

bad times. In the relationship, and there's gonna be you know, hopefully not bad fights, but there's gonna be disagreements, and then like there's going to be challenges, whether that be external challenges or internal challenges between you and this other partner. And so I think if you can get past those challenges and those obstacles together as a as a team,

I think love changes at that point. And I think I've seen that in my parents, because now I look at my parents and I don't think I've ever seen them love each other more than they do right now, because they've gone through it, like they've had a marriage and they've fought, and then they've loved each other, and they've gone through you know, people in their family dying, and they've been through like so much stuff together. There's

so many shifts in the exactly. Well, the one thing is, I mean, I've never been in a relationship longer than

ten months. I mean, I have a bad thing. But at the same time, it's hard for me because I've never experienced like that next level of where you have a whole puppy stage and everything is all happy and hunky dory, and then you get to the hard stage and I'm not necessarily sure if it's because I'm dating the wrong kind of people and I feel like, oh, I don't see myself marrying this person, so I don't want to waste their time or my time, or I'm the kind of person that is afraid to actually take

the next step, and maybe I should put more effort towards something I agree with though, because there is there is a line, right there is this bump in a relationship where you're like, okay, like it's getting to the point where we're out of puppy stage love and now like things are getting very very deep and things are getting very intense, and like we either get over this

bump and really pushed past this. And I think like that's when like three or four or five year relationships, that's how it really happens, or you kind of break up and you you start all over again into the next puppy love phase and then you know, it's kind of like a recycling thing, and so, um, I don't know,

it's very interesting, it would be amazing. I think it's more people lead with at the beginning of a relationship or you know, sort of early on what they're really looking for, because you have a great person in the relationship though, like, you don't scare me. You know, nothing you can say or do is going to push me away.

I really want to know you, or I want to go past that initial populve stage, like that's what I'm here for, that's what I'm looking for that really could open it up and have that person sort of get with you on that goal. You don't you know, you don't see the person that gets scared easily, Kendall. I never get scared. No, if I think if somebody, I mean, the thing that scares me is questioning in my mind, is this someone that's just not meant I'm not meant

to be with? Or is this someone I'm not paying enough effort in? Yeah, it's it's it's a fine like it's hard to tell. It's really difficult to tell. Right. What are your thoughts on that, Sherry? But do you know, I think it's an interesting thing. You know, there's there's uh saying I've studied so many different um sources, you know, to try to figure this whole relationship and life thing out.

And there's an ancient teaching that says, if you're going to pursue something if you're going to go for a goal of any sort, your likelihood for success should be pretty high. Like you should have a sense that this person is going to go there with you, or they're willing, they're open, they're they're teachable. Right, something is there that's giving you an inclination that it is possible, and if not,

it can be your undoing. You know, like people stay in marriages sometimes way to long because they think this person is going to change, you know, and then it really takes a toll. It's something probably your parents figured out dared you know, that they knew that they had enough history and foundation and open heartedness to keep going. And it's so amazing, Like how your dad has shown you too, like a whole new definition of masculine as he's gotten older to agree, and I think you get

to take that on. Like in your relationship. There's there's sort of two ways that we can go about things. We can go sort of human animal like when we're just fight or flight and survival mode that's kind of from the amygdala, the reptilian brain. Or we can go like full on um heart felt like freedom, human human spirit, you could say, like and we we make all our

decisions from the heart of the prefrontal cortex, right. And you sometimes when you get afraid or candle or any of us, when we get triggered, we think this person is not going to be happy with us, and I don't know if we're gonna make it. You could go into the fight or flight instinct, right and just hold back, which makes more holding back happen versus going you know what, I know that we're in a new a new day and age right now, and I know my dad's showing me more real sense of what it is to be

a man, and I'm gonna, like go into this. I'm going to get closer to her, and I'm going to get vulnerable and I'm gonna show her who aam like he's just shown me. Yeah, and I agree, not only just showing the new sense of him being a man,

but just him being a human. Um exactly. And so I also think, like what we were talking about being up front at the beginning of the relationship, I also think what a lot of people do is they don't value, um, other people's opinions or like, uh, they don't like um understand that other people are able to handle the truth, Like and that's something we were talked about earlier about hurting people's feelings, Like, and I go through the same thing.

I'm very terrified of hurting someone's feelings. But what I need to do is I need to accept the fact that, like they could handle that, you know, they will be able to handle me telling them how I feel um. And so I try to always think about that, to think, like, no, they're stronger than I'm like that point, because I am always afraid that they won't be able to handle it. Although I know that they're a strong person, they can't handle it. Almost don't want to put them through the

having to handle that. No, exactly, I totally agree, But you know what would be in amazing, Like my definition are my sort of goal for relationship is very simple. It's to love and be loved, right. That's why we get into relationships at any point in our lives, otherwise

we'd all be single. And so if you were to share something that could be um, something that would hurt them, you know, because maybe it feels like you're putting yourself first if you share it with a whole lot of love, like you hand it to them with your heart and you say this is hard for me, It could be really hard for you. I love you. I don't want

to hurt you. You know with all that it's gonna land beautifully, and I trust like you guys are in this for a reason that it's only going to make you two better lovers, right, Yeah, but I don't think there's Do you think that there's anything wrong if it doesn't land beautifully? This is true. If it doesn't land beautifully, then that's evidence, right, that's something for you to go. You know. Do we have an opening here to keep growing and keep cut getting closer? Or is is this

some learning? Is this person showing me who they are? Because there are some people who, yeah, will be scared by you, who won't be able to hold you, who may not be interested in making you happy. And that's done mean to pay attention to you. M very interesting, yeah, because sometimes I think a lot of people focus on saying what am I not doing? Right? What am I not? You know? What am I missing? Or maybe it's something that the other person is missing as well? Well. I

think it's I think it's two extremes. I think people either go one extreme where they go like you just said, what am I doing wrong, or they go to the complete other extreme and they're like, well, everything that's wrong in this relationship is because of them, and I'm perfect, And it's usually somewhere in the middle, right, Just like you know, there's two sides to every story. The truth usually lies in the middle. And I agree with relationships

like I you know, it's it's a partnership. It's it's sacrifice, and it's it's loving, and it's happiness and sadness and being able to put work and effort into a relationship. Um, and so that's kind of what love is, you know. It's just it's hard to even put into words. Yeah, well, thank you so much. Sure talk, Yeah, getting real here such great stuff. If if people out there want to hear more from you or get in touch with you, where can we point them? Oh, the my website would

be the easiest at Suri Healy dot com. And I call myself a possibilitarian, So if you just looked up possibilitarian and my name's d R I E. Then um, yeah, I'm all about just helping people get what they want. And when you get what you want, then you usually have a really great life, which as a ripple effect and helps feathers be the same, so everybody wins. Well, thank you so much for coming on show. Absolutely, have a great day, guys, you two have a great thank

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our advice on. And I was thank you for listening to this podcast, by the way, Yeah, thank you if you're listening out there, thank you for listening. If you can hear our voices, we are full gratitude. Uh So, since I've got both you guys here, I was thinking, I'll read an email, and I kind of wanted to get like Kendall's perspective and then Jared's ideas, like he said, she said, kind of a thing. Yeah, so this this first one, it's kind of about the bro code and

I get those juices flowing help. Last weekend, a friend of mine invited me to dinner with her boyfriend and two of their guy friends. The next day, we had all plan on going to a bar crawl together for St. Patrick's Day. I was fairly interested in one of the guys from dinner the night before, we'll call him Guy number one, and was excited to get to know him more. The five of us played drinking games in preparation for the crawl until the guy I was interested in started

feeling sick and went home. I ended up hooking up with the other guy, Guy number two. Keep in mind guys number one into are really good friends. My question is, what is the bro code? Am I still interested in getting to know Guy number one? Should I squash that idea and taking l for the weekend? Was this the or was this one time thing? Okay, guy number two could look past it even though he's interested. I'm twenty four for reference, and that's from anonymous. My first question

is what's wrong with guy number two? Like you hooked up with him? Is there not a connection? Like? Do

you not want to pursue that? That's my first I think she's more interested in guy number one, But how is things with guy number two, Like obviously they weren't that good if she's still like, yeah, I wonder if it's one of the situations that she's so fixated on guy number one that she hooks up with guy number two and it's still just like no, no, no, no, I want guy number one, even though maybe guy number two there's like a better connection, but she's just not

even looking in that your instantaneous attraction, you know, like something feels that there's certain energy with someone. UM my opinion, just with my friends girl code same thing as guy could broke code. UM. I don't Usually what I do is, um, if multiple girls are into one guy, we'll kind of sit back and see which one he you know, kind

of a little more drawn to. And then as soon as he's drawn to one person will step back, And I think there's something to be said about not intermingling that, like I I don't know, don't it's about hurting feelings. And for me, it's like my girlfriends um the other ones last forever. If it's just gonna be like a hook up, um, not like true love kind of thing. And then I never risked that. And it's so hard to judge too, because hook up is such a vague term.

Did you guys sleep together? Did you just make out? Was it a like kind of like a drunken kiss, or did it go further than that? Like that's the thing about Like when someone was like, oh I hooked up with a friend and was like, what does that exactly? I had a debate like what is hooked up? Because to me, I think hooked up is like I think sex.

Oh see right there, and there's a communication say sex, because like if I if I kissed somebody like, oh I made out with them, I wouldn't say I hooked up with them, It's oh I made it out with I mean I never used that terminology, Like I never say hooked up up. I don't know what yes, So maybe that's why I'm more naive to what hook up

actually means. It's not part of my vocabulary. That's the tough part exactly because like if I because if I said I hooked up with somebody, I feel like that automatically people think like automatically it went further than a kiss. So if like I wanted people to know, like, no, we made out, like we made out, that's very specific, like people know exactly what you're talking about. But if I say I hooked up with somebody, it leaves room for interpretation. And so that's why if I, you know,

not if yeah, like oh yeah, we hooked up. I mean what the one thing I can say about this is I feel like it's all about time. I mean time kind of heals everything. Um, So I wouldn't ride away go for guy number one. I would maybe let things kind of fade out with guy number two if she really doesn't want to pursue that, and then go back, you know, eventually kind of work my way up to

going on a date with guy number one. And I'm assuming to the only way that you're going to that she's going to see I they're one of these guys, is if she hangs out with one of her friends and her boyfriend again. Right, So I mean unless she exchanged numbers with one of them, um, which if you did. If you exchange numbers with both of them, Guy one and guy too, then obviously sit back and see who texts you, because I'm sure that, I mean, who knows.

Sometimes guys don't talk about hook ups, you know, so the guy one might not even know. I feel like, if they're really close friends and then guy number one started seeing the girl then, and I think as if if say, like things do escalate with guy number one, I think, as the emailer, whoever this is, I think you should address that you know fairly early on, because it's far better coming from your lips than it is her friend, right, excuse me his friend, because it would

be far worse. Like if I was talking to a guy and I was like, oh, I just started seeing this girl on a couple of days and he's like, oh, yeah, who's that blah blah blah, and he's like, dude, we totally hooked up like that night a couple of weeks ago. I would kind of be like, oh what. But if she told me on the first couple of days, it was like, listen, I want you to know. I want you to hear it coming from me that this did happen.

I'd be like, Okay, that's respectable, that's okay. It's not like you know, I've hooked up with people in the past two we've all been there. But I'm glad that you were truthful with me because it makes me trust you more, rather than hearing it from a guy and being like, well, who else has she hooked up with that like I don't know about Yeah, put on her terms as opposed to their terms totally. So if my advice would be just kind of you know, sit back,

let it play out. I don't know if you have either one of these guys numbers or if you do, see who texts you first. If not, you know, definitely make pans. Like if I were you and you were still interested in guy number one, I would talk to your friend and be like, listen, you know I hooked up with guy number two, but it just wasn't really there, and I'm still kind of interested in guy number one.

If if he is interested, let me know. Yeah, I would just say give it some time, because right off the bat going for guy number one after just hooking up with guy number two. It could be seem a little insensitive totally, So just give us some time and if you I would say, if it's only gonna be a hook up thing, I wouldn't go for it. But if it's going to be something where you actually see a serious relationship and see something developing, I would. It's I mean, it's worth it, and love is worth it.

It's messy, it's crazy, um, but in the end, it's always worth it. Canda, you're so smart. Oh teen smart too. Thanks. We have another one from anonymous, maybe the same anonymous. Uh you know a different person? Who is this anonymous person? They really get around and really get around. Uh, this is about a flirty co worker. The question I have to ask all y'all's opinion on so a little a little long, so I'll stick to the main things. Hope it makes sense. I'm twenty two. I started working at

a company at the end of October. It's mostly dominated by men. A few weeks in, a guy who works in a different department than me reach out to me via work email. My initial thought, nice small talk, break the ice, friendly coworker message. Every couple of days since then, the same coworker messages me. One conversation was about the kind of oatmeal he made it work for breakfast. The next day I had a package of that oatmeal at my desk. Lately, the messages have been a little more personal.

None of the messages are ever inappropriate. But what bothers me is that I know he is recently engaged and he knows I'm dating someone. If I knew my boyfriend was messaging a girl at work these kinds of things, it would bother me. So I guess my question is, what do you think this guy is doing. Is this just friendly work friend ship conversation. Maybe he's looking for a couple to double date with. Is he being flirty? Okay, yeah,

he's being flirty. I mean I was for I saw the oatmeal thing, and I was like, this is so sweet. He'd be a great husband. And then all of a sudden going to him being engaged in like awful husband, especially if you I'm sorry, go Kendall, no, no, I mean I just for me, it's like this is it's

not physical cheating, but it's emotional cheating exactly. And the thing is like he's definitely like as a guy, you don't really do small talk and banter and flirty with a girl, especially at a at a work environment, unless you are like physically interested or looking for something more than just a friendship. I I, if I were you, I would ask him to shut these messages off, UM,

because it's not fair to your boyfriend or his fiancee. UM. And so that would be my advice, just to go up to him and say, listen, I can't talk like this anymore. Like, even if it's just flirty, I can't do this. I don't feel right about it. And uh and if it, I don't know, do you does she show her boyfriend? Well, I almost feel like she's a question right there. Well have you? I mean, has she

brought up her boyfriend in the discussions with him? Because I think that is a form of not being completely open about it. She says, he knows I'm dating someone, Well, he knows. At the same time, this one thing to know and one thing to like make it obvious, like, I'm in love with my boyfriend. He's amazing. He's the person I spend the rest of my life with. I never want to speak to any other guy again. Well, it's important to conversations like that, because then you know

they know where you stand. If some people they see an opening or see like weakness in the chain, then you know, maybe they'll take advantage of that. And if you let them know that there is no weakness in the chain, then there's no reason to you know. I mean, he's shown evidence, he's gone out of his way, he's been a major calories for this, Like they didn't work in the same department. He had to find it on the working email. This guy is a goal exactly exactly.

I mean, I would stay clear of that. I would stay clear to that too, and I would the way I would handle the situation is I would talk to him directly and say I can't talk to you anymore, at least in this fashion. I mean, I would probably bring up my boyfriend over and over again, and if it still persisted, then I would make a point of like, look, I am in a relationship for you. Don't even answer ghost him. Ghost It's not about is that technically ghosting?

I don't think that there's the ghosting if he's engaged. No, That's what I'm saying. But I don't know. I don't know what the technical terminology of like the definition of ghosting is but this is just more of like shutting it off, Yes, shutting it off exactly. All right, we have consensus there, shut off, sut off. All right. Here's Brian finally not anonymous. Brian. I'm thirty eight, almost thirty nine, have been divorced for six years. I just joined the harmony.

My friends that are married, their wives tell me how nice of a person I am, and if they were single, they would date me. My question is what can I do to be more appealing to women. I have a good heart, like to make people laugh. I work. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong. Thanks you having a regular listener. I mean, my opinion is that what he's doing wrong is he's thinking that's something that he's doing wrong, because it's not necessarily what he's doing wrong.

It's just maybe he just hasn't met the kind of person that he messes with. It's all about timing, it's all about you know what they're going through in their life, what you're going through in your life, and sometimes it just works. Yeah, And I guess I don't know the problem is like I don't know what he's doing right now,

Like he joined Brian you joining harmony, which is awesome. Um. I think it takes like we talked about vulnerability and sign of strength, Like, I think it does take a little bit of a garage to put yourself on a dating site, to put yourself out there. So good job. I think that's awesome. I've been on many dating sites. I've been on Bumble, I've been on Hinges, like I've been all over. Um so uh yeah, I think keep doing what you're doing, man, like just keeping I know

it's such a cliche, but keeping yourself. Um, you know, what do you think, Candle, I don't know it Like. I like that. I like the pattern of him challenging himself with doing something like a dating app or dating site.

It's already difficult to do that. Um. I think the best way to find people you know is kind of through like being organic though, like maybe joining clubs that you sping in common, are going to you know, events, are going to certain areas that you love, like museums, like start connecting with people that have the same interests as you, because then that's where you start real conversation. And I think the best, the best relationships start out

as friendships. This is the most intense that I've ever had. Yeah, yeah, I agree. So that's a good idea. Like whatever your hobby is, maybe joined I don't know, a book club as sporting club like whatever. And then you never know who you're going to meet when you're just out there and find a connection and see what happens. And it's not forcing anything to happen, you know, I'm just making it organic. Yeah, just be open to meeting people that way exactly. And I agree with you. I think the

best relationships you start as friendships. My my wife I just married six months ago, we were friends for like eight years. That's great, definitely. Yeah, it's it's crazy, Um, I don't know, she's like, no one knows me better than her, and uh, it's it's just great when that can happen. I think, what was there any like time where like one person was possibly wanting to be in a relationship and it just never crossed that line? Were you? Well,

so we worked together at a movie theater. Uh, and um, we're really good friends, really close, and then we um, we hooked up one night early on. Uh. No, we've been friends for a couple of years and I I had feelings for and she had thinks for me, but we didn't talk about it. Then when night were hanging out really late, and it was like it was like out of out of a bad teen comedy. It was just like a bad like nothing really went right when we were decided to be intimate with each other, and

we're both kind of embarrassed, and uh. She sent me a text the next day saying, hey, like, I still I really like you and I would like to hang out more. And this this is a long time ago. I used to have a sidekick and if you remember those phones, those things would not get text messages all the time. It was just I never got that text, so she thought I wasn't responding to her. I just thought, oh my god, this is a nightmare. This is like

my neighmare. So we we went work next day and it's just kind of, well, you know, maybe it's just stay friends. I guess I didn't know she felt that way. She know I felt that way. Stay friends forever. And then we both moved to l A at the same time and started hanging out again. And then I was like I got to clear the air on something, and um yeah, and then that was saying that's straight out of a romantic commedy. It finds a way. Honestly, love does find a way, it really does. That's you know.

That's what I want to say to Brian is that it will happen for you. You just have to you know, it does sound like a cliche, but you just have to be yourself. You'll find someone that loves you as interested in you, and you have to stay positive exactly because there is this I do believe in energy, and I do believe that positive vibes that you give off people will be more attracted. I've never found within myself like if I'm down for some reason, I could never

find a date. And then all of a sudden, I'm just kind of happy in my own life and just you know, it just kind of like naturally happens, where like women are like, well, what are you doing next week? Like we should all hang out, Like I like hanging out with you, you know, like this is great. No, I mean I think it's infectious, like your energy, it's people can feel it, they can tell, and you're more attractive when you have that positivity because people want to

be around positive people. And what I like all your friends who all their wives like don't they have any friends? They can't like hook it up? Look bright up. He's a great guy. Alright, So I think we gotta think about Brian on the right path and gonna I really like the sign effect. Um So this next segment before we before we wrap it up here to come and that was nice talking to you. We're gonna do some rapid fire questions. I'm just gonna show a topic out

thinking to each of you. Just first thing comes to mind. It's kind of the story of my life. No thinking, just do it, yes or no. We're just like just like a quick like I'm into it. Yeah, okay if you if you have some more to explain, love to hear it. But Kendall, start with you sliding into d M. So where do you say? I say, I say, yeah, go for it, take a risk and you never know what kind of connection you'll find. I agree, definitely a

go for it. But just if you slide into a d M, just you know, this start off very easy. Don't sending any picture. Yeah it's not got the first message, just be like, hey, how's it going, you know, So just something to ease into the conversation. But it's okay to do. Yes, I say, I doesn't matter how you meet them, it matters that you meet them exactly. Love that love that your mom's setting you up. My you know, my mom's not really we don't have the same taste

in men. Let's just say that. Yeah, my mom tries to set me up with everybody. She's like, I met this nurse who's blah blah blah blah blah, and like it's just it's just rarely ever works out. I mean, who knows. It's my mom though, Like you know, I'm gonna say no, Like, yeah, mom, of course, like you know what's best? Or what about set ups in general? Though? Does anyone setting you up? I really don't like being

set up with people. I like the organic feel I'm you know, I mean, if I like someone, like, I'll make a move. I'm the kind of person that does make moves. But I like friendships first, you know, set up and never like I mean, maybe they do work. I just in my own personal experience, they just never have worked out where it's like, oh, I know somebody who's perfect for you, and I'm they're probably I'm probably gonna dating them. Yeah, exactly, what's wrong with them? We

aren't you. Exactly. Yeah, it's a lot of pressure too. I feel like I'm gonna let the friend down if I don't like the person to set me up with. Exactly. If you are setting somebody up, though, I think it's far better to maybe not express that, to be like, hey, I have this friend that you're going to absolutely love. Instead, why don't you just invite them both into the group setting. Don't let them know and be like just try to be hitch in the moment, be like, oh yeah, oh

you like that, so does he. You guys should talk, and then you know, I totally agree. Yeah. I don't know how often these things happen these days, with like social media and everything, but like blind dates, no, I researched the heck out of any potential blind date. I've actually had someone trying to do that. Someone's mom um

came up to me. Was one of my mom's mutual friends, and she came up to me and she's like, Oh, my son would be really great for you and I set you guys up, And she's like, I'll just give you his number. I look up the number, I find the Facebook. Honestly, like social media is a resume. Oh,

I absolutely agree, even just googling. It's so funny too, because remember the days before phones, where it's like you would this is a different thing, but like an X you drive by their house and and like, now the equivalent of that is like going on their social media page. And so it's the same thing when you're first meeting someone,

like you have to know everything about them. You want to see what their Instagram looks like, with their Facebook looks like, Um, it's impossible to do a blind date. If it's there, it's it's so tempting, Like I'm so tempted. There's no way I'm not going to research the person. There's this girl who I work with, and she was She's like, I'm going on a blind date, like a real blind date. Yeah, like and she meant she had in research and I thought, like, oh, is he actually blind?

Like does he have like but no, she was. She's like, it's taking a lot of work. But I have not googled him. I haven't looked at social media. For her. It's kind of it must be fun to be, like, I wonder where he's gonna look, Like, how do you even know? When you walk into the restaurant and you're like, or the bar wherever they're meeting up, and you're like, Okay, I have no idea what this person looks like, so how are you supposed to know? How? How do you know?

Do you the movie? It's like, I'm wearing a red rose and god, very mysterious crossage. I'll be in the corner with the glass of wine. Is that what you would say on a blond day, I'll be I'll be the one in the corner with aggressive wine. I'd probably you're only going to see my silhouette, just secrets or something. Keep this blade knock twice on the door. I'll know it's you. I definitely, I definitely would probably just wear something crazy like you won't be able to miss me.

I All I'd say is you won't miss me. I'm the one in the pink too too. You'll never even tell that, you can't even don't even tell them to say you won't be able to miss me. And then they go in and you have something crazy like that's obviously the person. Yeah, But what if you walk in somebody else is wearing something crazy and you're like, oh no, and then you end up dating that person and you miss the blind date, love finds a way. All right, what about sex on the first date? I don't want

to answer this one first. Um well, yeah, I'm not the person that does that. I have to get like I said, like, I like being friends with the person first, and for me, I'm I think like once I get caught up with that, it's very difficult to avoid. It's very difficult to make the relationship all about that. So I definitely like to wait, Like I like to be friends first, and I like the building anticipation. Yes, it

makes it more fun. It is more fun, Like obviously there's a line we're like, Okay, I can't build it up anymore than it is right now. But but definitely, I I like kind of pushing off a little bit

and building up that anticipation. And it's so much better when the person knows you too, Like if you know who they are and they know who you are, you can be more sensitive with each other and nobody each other like, and it just makes it so much you know, totally sexy, so intimate that like if you only know somebody for a few hours, it just I think it naturally is not worse, but it's just different, that's all.

It's different, and if you're looking to be with that person for a long time and have a really strong relationship going down the line. Not to say that it hasn't worked before, but in my opinion, I don't think that starts. I don't think it starts it to say, oh, I want to have a release, long, serious, long term relationship. Yeah, and I agree, And not to say it can't. You can't find someone that you're gonna marry by having sex

on the first day with him. I'm not saying that at all, because I'm sure there's people that are going to like tweet and me and be like, oh, I'm I found my husband. We ended up sleeping on the first day. But I do think majority of the time it's probably not going to work out. So if you play the odds, you know, I would, I would wait, do you have a rule like three dates or gosh, I would even like wait a month something, a couple

of months. Like I just feel like the strongest relationships have had have been the ones where that wasn't even really a factor in the beginning and then afterwards like oh there's a new, awesome added bonus where you know it's now it's like kind of brings a relationship to like a whole new level. Oh definitely. Yeah, it's you know, a lot of people, I feel like it's a little taboo to talk about. But sex definitely changes the relationship, does you know? It's just such an intimate and personal

experience between two people. How would it not change the relationship in some way. I'm not saying it would make it worse. Most time it makes it better, but um, but you know, um yeah, so I don't know. I used to wait when I was dating. I would wait a month. And this one was one time this girl took me out to barbecue place for lunch and she was like, we've been dating for three weeks and you haven't tried to have sex with me, and I just

want to know, are you gay? I was like, no, like rip off your clothes as if you're like on the NBA getting off the bench pants like I'm ready. I was trying to be respectful, but anyway, so that's what we're saying. Kiss on the first date though, Oh i'd kiss on the first date. I mean I think not. I mean, of course, being physical someone doesn't necessarily have to be sex, but it's a whole different dimension of

who the person is. And I think a kiss on the first date judge, I mean, depending it's going really well and I can actually see another date. Um, I yeah, I'd be curious. I want to see if you can tell if like that physical connection is there with a kiss. Yeah.

I try not to kiss on the first date for the simple That's why there's I feel like a lot of times women always want what they can't have, And so I even got a text one time, I want on a date with this girl was very attractive, and um, we went to dinner and we left and I hug to goodbye, and and we were texting the next day and she was like, I'm actually shocked because guys always

trying to kiss me on the first date. And I think it was like, I think she became more attracted to me for the simple fact that I didn't try anything. I was like, I kind of, I mean, I kind of like that's a good strategy because you don't expect you expect the girl to wait on the first date, but I wait on the first date. It's it's a little very serio. Yeah, does he like me? I think? Does he not like me? I think it just for

some reason. I think, at least in my experience, most of the time, women find that attractive and I could use as much help as I could possibly get dating. So if it helps at all, I will do it. But having said that, I'm certainly not against kissing on the first date. Like if it goes great and you guys spend like the whole day together and it's so wonderful in the moment, is there? Um? Take it? Yeah, take the opportunity to Why not about dating someone who's

a different religion? Oh? I mean, man, actually one of the best relationships I've had. We're still friends. Um. He was Jewish and I wasn't really raised with religion. Um. I would say maybe Christianized celebrate Christmas. Um. But it was great because I'd be able to celebrate his holidays. He'd be able to celebrate holidays with my family, and it was it was kind of fun, you know, experience

all that totally. Of course, you can date someone of the other It's like saying, if you're a Democrat, could I date a Republican? Yeah? I will never um, But no, of course you can date someone who's the other religion you just talk about in your open You're like, this is what I believe, and then the person is like, well this is what I believe, and you're like, that's great, we can move past this. You know, I don't think

that's so much to relationship, of course. Yeah, I mean updated people who are extremely religious, um and um, I just found I was just more so curious about it. I just want to learn about why, why they're really into it. The one thing would say, I'm fine with it. But if the other person wants to have kids and you know, raise your family in a certain way with religion, um, I don't believe I can be as hardcore with that, of course, Like it all depends on the individual and

how hardcore they are with their specific religion. Because if it is like, if it comes down to somebody who's so religious that they're like, well my kids will only believe in this religion and that is it, then of course that's a completely different conversation. But if you're just you know, somebody's like, yeah, well I'm Jewish, but I'm I'm open to dating someone who's Christian. But should I

of course you shouldn't. Yeah. Of course, at what point do you live with someone when do you move in with somebody two days, three days, like a couple of hours maybe depending on depending on the weather if it's raining. I don't mean I have lived with two of my previous relationships, um, And I will say that since having those relationships, they're amazing. But I would definitely shy away from living with somebody until I can feel myself like wanting to marry them for now, just because of my

past experience. And you said your longest relationship was ten months, right, I know, I know I loved with two of them. Yeah, I was young. And I also was getting kicked out of my apartment. Um, um, yeah it was. It was because I lived in San Francisco, which is already very expensive. Um, Like would share beds with my girlfriends and stuff, like

to have rooms and it's very expensive. So when it came to a point where I was leaving this one apartment, um, because the landlord didn't want to continue because there was all his drama. I won't get into that. Um. But I ended up my boyfriend said, hey, do you want to live with me for a while? Yeah, And um, I mean the relationship didn't really end that well, so maybe it was too soon. Yeah, I mean, if if you got to put a number on, I'd probably say

about a year. I think, yeah, I think you should probably be with somebody for a while before you commit to living with each other because, like we talked about with other areas of relationships, living with somebody is a huge part because if you're gonna spend the rest of your life with them, you're you're going to live with them for the rest of your life. With somebody, have I know, um so and with the relationship obviously I have friends, but um no, I've never lived with anybody

that I've dated. Um obviously, Like there's been times where like I'll spend you know, you know, three days at their place, three or four days out of the week, so you know, you live with them half the time, but still like that other half to the time, not being with them is a huge part because you're able to kind of decompress and and almost and miss them. You know, if you're living with somebody, you never miss them.

They're there all the time. And that's the part of a relationship, that less factor, that that that you know, you know, distance makes the heart grow fonder a little bit. And even if you only don't see anybody for a couple of days. It's just it's that added little it's you know, it's nice to see you, it's really good see you instead of like waking up in the morning, saying goodbye, coming back at five o'clock in the afternoon

and seeing them again, like spending all your time with them. So, um, I think that you should really, you know, develop your relationship, grow those feelings, take your time to um, you know, work on each other and make sure that this is a really great foundation before you say, all right, let's let's do this, let's move in, because it does change relationship a lot, really, and you have to be aware of that. Like people who think, well, we're gonna move

in and nothing's going to change, don't have that mindset. No, they'll know like they can they know like how you organize things, or where you're going at all times the day, every moment, even if you're going through your girlfriends, like you said, you're gonna be back this time, but you're

not back till this time. And it just adds a lot more complication where if you don't know someone that well and you haven't worked through a lot of problems or worked through things together, then it's hard to live up to the expectation. Of course, even just like stupid stuff, whether it be like launder or dishes, Like some people are really bad at laundry and like you and then like say you're like if I was bad at laundry and my girlfriend was like, well, this is my pet peeve.

You need to make sure they're like washer dryer folded in and out by by. I don't want to say any clothes in there. It's like, well, I suck at that, Like I'll do better. But it's just like those little things that add up and so well, it introduces arguments early on in the relationship that aren't necessarily exactly right. Don't add any more pressure to a relationship than you already need exactly. What about ghosting? Oh, don't go to somebody, Okay,

it's such okay, Well, here's my question. What is the like definition of ghosting? Not only definition, but like say you never met this person. Oh so it was like a dating app. You met, you texted for a while, and then you just it kind of like just faded away. That's different and my my interpretation for ghosting, I'm not sure if I know what this is exactly. But my definition would be ghosting someone as you make plans and then you don't show up or you cancel last minute,

or is that ghosting or you just don't call something. Well, I think ghosting would be like if you make plans and you just don't show up without letting them know, that would be ghosting. Right if you tell someone like, hey, I'm so sorry, like I can't make tonight, that's not ghosting. That's just canceling plans. That's that's what's the Urban Dictionary definition of ghosting? Yeah, can you use it a sentence please?

The definition is the act of suddenly ceasing all communication with someone the subject is dating but no longer wishes to date. This is den in hopes that the ghosts you will just get the hint and leave the subject alone, as opposed to the subject simply telling them they're no longer interested. So would it be ghosting if somebody like it's like you, maybe you met somebody and you guys wanted to day and didn't really go that well, and then like a week later she texted, like say, I

text her and I'm like, hey, what's up? And she never responds? Is that ghost? But I have I've ghosted before. Yeah, I have. I've ghost before. I'm not it's I hate it, and I hate myself for saying it, but I've It's never been bad, Like I've never like like you know, been with somebody and just been like all right, well

I'm never texting them, you know, back again. But it's you know, there's been situations where like, yeah, I blame it on the saturation of people, Like especially living in a city, there's so many people, so many you know, first dates you can go on, and sometimes it's overwhelming and you don't want to have to deal with a mini breakup. It's a mini breakup, you know, it's exactly

what it is, and you know it's so sad. Like sometimes I'll keep those text messages in my phone because like I'm like if somebody texts me and I'm just I don't text them back right away. I'm like, all right, I'll text the back later. And then all of a sudden, like we goes by and you're like, I'll never texting them back, and then like all right, well now it's kind of awkward if I text back, so like maybe I should wait, Like I don't know why my fault.

My mind would go to this, but then like I scroll, like sometimes I'll screw through my text mesages just make sure i'm like all caught up, and then I'm like, oh my god, I never texted them and I was months ago, and like now I can't text because that's even much. Times it's like worse to be like, hey, I'm so sorry, I'm a jerk and it's not interested. Okay, yeah,

And that's the thing. It's like it's honestly, a buddy of mine actually went through this where one time, but he didn't go he did he goes to the girl, but he said there was this I won't discus us the details of it, but there's something happened. And he was like, I can't tell her why I don't like her, because she is asking me, and I'm like I don't have the heart to tell her because I feel like it will scare her for the rest of her life.

So he's like, I'd rather be the jerk. I'd rather have her hate me then me tell you this, and like it was just like you know something that he just was like, I just did something. I can't get over it. I'm never gonna be able to get over it, and like it's better if she just hates me and moves on, and I'd rather be the jerk rather than me, like because apparently like he was like, she was kind of like blowing up his phone, but like why aren't you talking to me? And he was like, I would

just say, don't feel it. I mean, honestly, he handles that persistent totally, just like you're not my person. I think you know something along those lines. I found other love elsewhere. I don't even I would just be like, listen, it just wasn't there for me. You're you know, I

don't know what about bread crumbing. This is a new concept what I saw that And I was like, I mean I like bread pones, not handling great, Yeah, trail of bread CRUs So it's when you date someone and that person is an old witch and they want to cook you and eat you. That's like if I had a nickel for every time. Because I understand it, I being involved with the help. It's like a dating podcast.

I've heard it come up a few times. Bread Crumbing is like keeping someone kind of on the line like every not totally ghosting them, just like appearing every now and again, like they'll text you, maybe you don't respond a couple of times, and then you text them be like oh hey, I saw this cloud that reminded me of you or something like that, and just I mean, honestly, I think the intention with that, the intention with that is to not hurt the person, but in reality you're

actually stringing them along and hurting them more is giving them false hope. And that's where I go back to, like everybody judging a situation and being like you're all this is horrible or that you know, it's like why don't you put yourself in these shoes? Why don't you go through what we're going through right now and tell me how you would handle it, you know, because there's really no good way you can justify everything if it's yourself exactly, and you can justify you know. I mean,

I've never I woke it down that path. Are you bread crumbing right now? No? No, no, no crumbs. I had crumbs. But I don't know. That's so tough because I feel like it's on both people in all honesty, Like if somebody's throwing out so many hints and you're somewhat getting it, Like if you get the feeling that somebody's not into you. Then especially after a while, they're they're probably not into you. You know, Well, if you like someone, I feel like you want to see the

more positive side of it. You convinced yourself that, oh, maybe this is it. Maybe the person is sick. Maybe, so you're convincing yourself of it even though you know the truth is that they probably don't like you. And so that's the hard part. It's like accepting it on both sides. So it's tough, right because one person wants

to be nice. If one person is more into uh, you know, somebody else and they are back, it's just it's hard, right because you're like, well, if I completely goes them, I'm a jerk, or if I completely tell them that I'm not I don't like them, I feel I feel like a jerk because I'm just killing them. So you know, I'll just send out a lot of and so they know, and so the other person gets the hints, but sometimes they just they don't accept it. I don't know. It's a really it's a gray area

that really I don't think there's a right answer. If you put a shoe with the shoe on the other foot and someone does answer your text messages every now and then and they are answering it. I'm not sure if I would even realize I was being bread crumbing or whatever it's called. I don't even think I would realize that. I'd be like, oh, we talk every now and then, you know, maybe it'll be But I don't know if I would be aware. Yeah, but that's fine as well as long as you were like you would,

I'm sending you want to be that invested. If somebody's breadcumbing and you're like, they text you back every couple of days, and you'd be like, well, it's just kind of fluff right now, Like we'll see if anything happens from it. But if somebody's like, oh my god, they text me back, they definitely love me, Like this is definitely gonna all the emojis. Don't send heart emojis, especially as a guy. I think maybe I don't. I don't want to jumpe the yellow heart. Does the yellow heart

emoji mean friendship? I had someone semi a yellow heart emoji recently. They're different color heart emojis. Yeah, yeah, there's like, oh, I think I knew that. Does red mean like that's love. But if it's yellow, because I know yellow with flowers is friends, well it's say, yeah, orange is passion that one. So if you do an orange heart, I've gotten the blue heart from friends before. Blue is very friendly, Yeah it was green. Green is extremely friendly. Red is romantic.

Red romantic yea. If you start red, purple, possibly shade, there's there's hope it could develop into red. I don't know. I think with bread crupping, it's such a gray area. I'm not sure if there's a right or a wrong answer to that. Yeah, well, let's let's do two more and then we'll wrap this up. Sexting sex okay, Honestly, I feel like it depends if you're in a committed relationship. Oh yeah, you have to. I mean it's fun to sex somebody, of course, Like I like, I don't know,

I don't want to talk about this. I mean it's it's it's like being part of being there's nothing wrong with it. Yeah, unless the CEE I A r FBI is looking at your text messages, they probably are, so like, well, isn't there a way you can like hide your incoming messages so people can't see what it actually says? I don't know, but I highly don't. They really can a. I don't have that on my phone now, but I feel like I should not that I mean not, I mean currently I don't have to worry about that, but

maybe later on the line if I'm in a relationship. Oh, here we go. And now finally, soulmates do they exist? What do you guys think? I think you can fall in love with more than one person. I agree, yeah, you can have multiple soulmates made multiple soulmates. Yeah, of course. I think there are people in this world that you were very compatible with, and I think there are people in this world that you have certain connections with that

you don't have with other people. Um. And so if people want to identify that as a soul mate, sure, but I don't think that you can find I don't think necessarily you just find that in one person. Um. But I think also being aware of that would probably make whoever you're with a stronger relationship, because god forbid, you're in a relationship with somebody and then you meet this other person that you have in a connection with as well, and you're like, well what if they're my

soul mate? To like, well, who is my actual soul mate. I'm so confused instead of being like no, I yeah, you can have a connection with somebody else while being in a relationship with somebody that you're strongly committed with

interesting tangent. Sure we can talk about whether you're a monogamous person or maybe more of am just like one on one person because I actually read a study recently where are they studied in lizards that there's certain proteins that are in the DNA where um, certain lizards will have a short form of form of this protein and it means they're more monogamous, whereas um, if you have a long form this protein, it means that you more so would like to have multiple partners. And I think

that's that's found. It's a biological thing. So you know, I don't know. I was recently talking about this and I thought it was interesting totally, and I don't think there's anything wrong with you know, if you if you're into that, totally be into that. But having said that, I just think like, as long as you're not hurting any it's about honestly and communication totally. So if everybody's involved and they're like totally like, we don't mind being

with other people. Totally kind of like that in some sense to way. But if you're you know, if you're in a committed relationship, you're like, well, this is one on one for me, then of course I think with the soul me um yeah, it's just that like intangible thing that is very hard to describe that you have with somebody. Now, will you only find that once? No? So if you break up with somebody and you found you think that they're your soul may you might find

that with somebody else. Um So, I necessarily don't think there's only one person out there for you. Having said that, I do think there is this certain quality that you know, you don't find it everybody, and that's what love and if you want to call it your soulmate is, then totally go for it. Thanks so much for coming in you guys. Thanks for having us some great Yeah. Yeah, it's been so much fun, so much if I getting to know know you guys. This has been help by second Dating.

If you have an email you'd like to send, send it to help by second Dating at ihart media dot com. Special thanks to Shari Heally, the life coach we talked to. You can check out her website Shari Heally dot com. That's c h E r I E h e a l e y dot com. She was so awesome. Uh, do you guys have any hit them hit you up on Twitter. We don't want to tell people to go all the social media. Yeah, um so yeah. On Twitter on Haven underscore Jared h A I B O and underscore j A R E D. On Instagram, it's just

at Jared Haven. And my Instagram is at a key Kendall a D eight and my Twitter is I think just Kendall Patrese at Kendall Patrese. I mostly tweet about like Patriots movies and Rob Thomas though, so you know it's probably not the best fall, but hey, if you like those three things, you're gonna love me. Tweet about like bugs and science and uh, you know there's some bachelor stuff in there. There we go. Yeah, there's always some bachelors. Oh yeah, you gott sneak it in there.

Uh awesome, Well, thanks so much you guys. Has been helping Second Dating and next week we'll suck less or something. I don't know,