#21 Let's Hug it Out

Last night we watched the episode of the finale of the Bachelor. I'm still freaking out, but I guess I should rephrase that Erica and I watched the finale of The Bachelor. Easton has not seen it. I have never watched an episode of The Bachelor in my entire life, still to this day. To this day, i've seen clips,

but UM, I've never seen it. I respect you so much from that, UM, and so I know that we don't normally talk a lot about The Bachelor on this podcast, it's not a Bachelor podcast, but I don't think we can skate by with this episode without talking about it a little bit. As think there's some interesting dating issues in this, like going back to an X and like, and I have some feelings about are in the way

that he handled everything. I think that we'll get to it later, of course, but um, he did some really bad things and he did some things that were not so bad, and I don't know, I want to kind of get your opinion on it, because I know we haven't really talked about it yet, but you see on Twitter, like people are crucifying him and saying all these negative things.

But so we can start back to that. This is the first episode that we've recorded post Winter Games finale as well, which basically seems like an afterthout at this point, like no one even cares about Winter Games now. But it is nice to be able to openly communicate the relationship with Leslie that I have instead of having to

hide that. This is the first time anyone knows you in a relationship, yes, of the of the of the kind of as long as Deanie Babies has existed, he's never been in a public relationship and this is the first time this has happened, and it feels phenomenal. Um. Okay, So our first guest today is a man by the name of Justin McMillan, who is the CEO and founder of Treehouse Recovery, which is a specialized absent based recovering wellness center. Hey, Justin, how are you good? How are

you doing? This is Dean. I'm joining the studio with Erica Ian Easton. Thank you so much for taking the time to jump on the phone with us. Um. Absolutely so, Justin, I just let in a little bit with with the fact that you're founder and CEO of over at Treehouse Recovery. But do you mind telling us a little bit more about kind of what you do? And um I I remember reading an email that you are a big advocate of hugs, which I absolutely love because I'm a big

hugger as well. But um, maybe just like like a general overarching idea, like a like an elevator pitch on kind of who you are and what you've done. Sure? Sure, Well, first, thank you for for having me on the show. Yeah. So okay, So I'm the CEO and founder of Treehouse Recovery, which is a it's a national organization and we treat substance abuse. But we've we've come at it from a different angle. Really, we were are big its focuses on bonding,

mail bonding and connecting men together. And through the body of our work, we've discovered that, you know, there are a lot of things that men can do to be healthier and stronger, and so this is kind of where where hugging comes in. One of the things that we've discovered is that an individual who is really healthy socially, a man who's healthy socially is not afraid to to hug like yourself, and that by having physical connection that

men ultimately are healthier and stay healthier. And there's a lot of parts to this, uh and I could go into several different things, but uh, so we look at that and we have a we also have an academy and research institute, so we're studying men's health in general and we're looking at how to further develop what we do to make it better. And so we're constantly assessing what are the different variables that make up a healthy man and in a lot of different ways physiologically and

socially psychologically. And then through that we've we've really discovered that physical touch is something that we're missing in our culture and in our society, and that men need this. You know, we need to be physical, we need to touch.

And this isn't this isn't a new thing. I mean, we we all experienced this as children when we when we're young, I mean we're obviously we're held embraced at a young age, and then over time we're sort of taught social norms and eventually we sort of in general, men start to disconnect and they stopped. You know, it's more about a handshake and you know, kind of standing your ground and then touch sort of changes for men.

And and so we look at that, and all the guys that come to us, I mean most of them, you know. To give you an idea about addiction, addiction is really about disconnection and and individuals being disconnected from others and from themselves and and from their own thinking in their own mind. And so we focus on reconnecting and like I said before, bonding. And what we've discovered is that healthy bonds are a critical part for human behavior.

I mean, it's not something we've discovered, it's known, but it's really something that we've discovered is missing. And it's sad. I look around and you see and and there's a lot of men that are afraid of this and I think in today's society where we're at right now, men need this, and I think they're society need this. I think men need to kind of rebrand themselves a little bit in terms of how we're seeing and I think, you know, touching and physical interaction is a is a

big part of that. I can I understand where you're coming from. Um, It's funny when I think about it too, because I have I have a lot of obviously like a lot of male friends, and it's funny to see how even just through the years that we've grown up together, we've kind of maybe had the reverse progression where um, we're still like very not like physical with each other, but we're not afraid of hugging each other like you know,

kind of like messing around like that. Um, And I can I could see how some people would think of that as like a negative thing, but I think it's a great way to to show, I don't know, one way of one another that you care about them. But because so so with this, uh podcast, it's kind of like a dating centric podcast. I'm just kind of curious to hear um. And I'm not sure if you can speak firsthand, but how do you see these men come into this, UM, I guess treatment facility in terms of relationships.

Do they come in with girlfriends that come in with wives? Do they leave in the same status that they as they came in with? How does that all kind of factor in? Yeah? So okay, and and I'd love to talk about the dating side. It's a little bit too, I mean outside of even recovery. But but yeah, I mean guys come in and all the you know, some some come in marriage and come in with relationships, and I would say most of them come in with pretty

unhealthy relationships. And and then after they leave, we we actually encourage them to spend six months there with us, typically for six months, and we encourage them to spend six months uh focusing solely on developing strong platonic relationships UM and not not so much in the romantic side of things. And we do that because in early recovery, the brain is still growing and if you kind of stop in the middle of your trajectory and you connect with uh somebody in a in a non platonic way,

it can kind of freeze that time for you. And it can be dangerous because the person that you may fall for an early recovery may be something completely different than what you would really prefer when you're completely healthy, and it takes quite a bit of time for someone to really, you know, get through postitute withdrawal where their brains starts to come back online and they start to

feel strong and healthy again. So we encourage guys not to date right out of treatment and definitely not wild in treatment because you know, it's this is kind of the bigger subject around dating in general. I think that's his men. We need to we need to really focus on being the best us that we can be so we can bring that to the equation when dealing with a partner. And and so that's what we're really about, is how do we become the most optimal man, the

most optimal human being that we can be. So we have a lot more to offer. And and then women picked up on that, you know, or or our partners picked up on that when we go out in the real world. And I mean an example of this would be like you talked about with your friends and and hugging, you know, a woman, it's also a display or a demonstration of what's possible or what could be in store for a woman. So when you're with your friends and you guys are grabbing each other and wrestling and hugging.

That's a sign that you're capable of of a platonic connection and that you're capable of intimacy, And it's a way to demonstrate that to a woman, so she has an idea of what she may be signing up for

she does get into a relationship with you. And I think I think also women need to see that we have social circles and connections with men that we can go back to, and that you know, we're not going to have the woman be everything for us all the time, that we have this other play so where we can go to you know, dump and to you know, share things and to kind of adjust and come back to the relationships so that we you know again can bring

it our best selves. So yeah, yeah, So my thing is whenever I meet someone, not whenever I meet someone, but I would say nine times out of ten when I meet someone, I want to hug them, and I probably do go in for the hug, but there's often there's often or sometimes maybe like ten, there's going to be someone that maybe like puts their hand out while I'm going in for a hug and then he just just kind of makes it. There should just be one uniform like greeting where you can just hug whoever you want

to hug, and I mean within reason, of course. But I know, so Eric is here. I know she's not the biggest fan of Yeah. So I'm not a big hugger, like at all. Dean walks in the studio and I usually just like say him, no, I mean, I love it, we're like friends, but I just like, I'm not a huge hugger. And I know you focus mostly on men. But am I like putting out everything wrong to the world that I'm actually like super not intimate people. No,

not at all. I mean it's not there's no such thing as one size fits all kind of the thing, you know. But but I mean, what does it What does it say to you if you see a man hug another man? How does that? Oh? My god, I think that's so sweet. I have nothing wrong but Dean hugs everyone, and I think it's really nice. But oh sorry, But I have no problems with other people hugging. And I hug like my family and my close friends, and

I have no problems with that. And I even actually hug on first meeting more so than maybe third or fourth, which is strange. You get the hugs out of the way early. Yeah, I'm like, I don't have to hug you later the formal the formal, I guess to get this out of the way. Is this formality kind of deal? Yeah, it's really sorry. I don't know if it says anything about me or just that I really hate human contact, so I guess. And like you said, it's not it's

not a one size fits all thing. I think that generally speaking, maybe women show are more effects, but you know, for you, you don't have to be and men are less affectionate on average. But I think that if you can kind of just like make it known that it's perfectly acceptable and fine to do that. Yeah. Absolutely. And there's like there's like a horseplay element for men to write. I mean, there's like just kind of it's not just

always hugging. It's like like even a punch in the shoulder, like a grab or like a kind of a wrestle, you know. And that's something we see in children. You see it with little boys. They're kind of playing around until we, you know, say hey, knock it off. Don't do that anymore, you know, it's kind of like stand up straight, you know, kind of stop doing that. But

that exists in us. That's a part of who men are and and you see it where they can sports teams and you know, even in the military and athletic like, guys are actually much more physical than probably we realized. And it's not always just about intimacy, and it's sort of like gentle soft way. It's like, you know, it can be like a forearm grab and like pulling someone towards you. You know, there's there's a lot more to that in who we are than I think men real life.

And it's not always it's not this necessarily like a soft and touchy thing, although it can be, and of course, like you said, that can make some people uncomfortable, but I think I think it's really just about touch and in their actions, and there's so much communicated through this, right, I mean, it's it's you can say so much, you know, by giving somebody a hug, you're saying like I trust you, you can trust me, right, You're safe with me, and I'm safe with you, and uh, and you're you're you're

showing that as as a man. It's it takes a certain amount of confidence and strength to do that too, and knowing who you are. And I think that that also is it's a very beautiful thing. And I think sharing that wherever you can is a is a great thing. I think another thing it's amazing about it is that

there's health benefits stugg and there's actual physiological health. But if it's like it, it raises oxytocin in the in the body, which is like that we kind of feel good chemical that helps us still relaxed, and it raises serotonin. There's a lot of studies about this, and so you we have this ability through touch to like actually change someone's chemistry and make them healthier. And if you think

about it that way, like like give it. You can give that to somebody, Like we as men, we can reach out and actually make someone healthier or make someone happier by just grabbing them and squeezing them. It's so simple, and it is so simple, and it's really really beautiful.

I think it's it's a pretty amazing, amazing tool, an amazing thing that you can you can give to somebody else and then by doing it, you know, it's sort of it grows on itself because maybe you hug somebody that's not really a hugger, and all of a sudden they go, I kind of like this, and then all of a sudden they got that bug, and then they want to hug somebody else. And then the next week, you know, we're walking down the street and everybody's hugging each other. I mean, that would be I love it.

I love it. I'm a percent here for it. I think the more hugs the better. The one person that might be more of a hugger than I am is Ben Ben Higgins is every time I see him, he gives me the biggest bear hug I've ever I ever get. And I mean it's always it's a it's a it's a good thing to look for two whatever you and I've never felt terrible after a hug, Like you can't. You feel pretty good unless they're like, I don't know, forcing you to hug them. But but yeah, usually they're nice.

So we can actually help people in the world through this. Yeah, I think I was gonna say, and I think the one one of the good points that you well, they're all good points, of course, but one of the points that we can really focus on. From the dating aspect of it is is to really focus on yourself before I guess being willing and able to jump into a relationship.

But I think we've mentioned that before as well. But um, you know, by going around and I guess having that that physical connection with with anyone obviously a prely potonic basis is allowing you to you know, like you said, kind of level or give you some more oxytocin and um what was it serotonine as well? So um, as as long as you're working on yourself at the end of the day, I think that's definitely one of the main takeaways, which is always a positive. Yeah, yeah, I

think it's man week. It's easy to jump into a relationship and to start to sort of forget about the connections that you have with other men and how important they are to maintain a healthy relationship, and so focusing on that and focusing on bonding and just being close to the men in your life is I think it's an important thing. Not not all men like to talk about their feelings, so sometimes like how doing you're wrestling around and grabbing each other can be a great way

to say I care about you. And I'm here for you without having to sit down and have some deep conversation. I mean, that's right at my alley. I'm not I'm not much of a one to express my my feelings, so to be able to do it through that kind of stuff is it's much easier. And I think that's that can go along for a lot of other guys as well. But um, Justin, thank you so much again for taking the time. UM, if if you want to follow Justin and his his company, they're not I don't

want to call it a company. I guess it's your advocate and treatment facility, right, Treehouse Recovery. Um, go ahead and follow them on on Instagram and on Facebook tree House Recovery. Um. Justin, is there anything else that you wanna maybe speak on or plug before before we jump

off here? Yeah? Well, once, thank you again for having me and and I guess I I'd like to say, you know, just to present a challenge to all your listeners and whether it be male or female, that you know, step outside of your comfort zone a little bit and reach out and give somebody a hug and think about this,

be present about this. I consider the fact that physical touch is an important part of your life, and that by doing so that your life will be better, You'll be happier, you'll be healthier, and you can make the world a better place. I love it. I just gave Erica Huggins. She's got the biggest green on her face right now while you were talking, reached over and hugged me. It was nice. Um okay, Justin next again one more time. It's Treehouse Recovery on both Facebook and Instagram. UM, be

sure to check them out. And Justin again, thank you so much for the time. It's good to hear that you're doing so much good in the world, and we look forward to seeing what else you can do. All right, thank you, thank you so much for having me have a good day. All right, take care. Another way of spreading good in the world, besides these incredible hugs that you can be given everyone on a daily basis, um, is by going on threat up and maybe getting yourself

something nice, make you a little bit happier. Maybe get something for someone else, make them a little bit happier. Well, if you get something for yourself, you get happier, which then you can you're working on yourself exactly. It's all coming full circle and one of the best ways is to go to threat Up. And I know, I know you guys have heard me talk about threat Up in the past. Basically the largest online thrift store where millions

of women refresh their closets. It's basically a thrift store online where every style you can imagine is going to be. There's so many good brands too, all over the website, all over the website, all the good brands. Instead of having a shift sift aimlessly throughout the racks, you can basically just sort by size, by style, by color, all that good stuff to save you a bunch of time and save you up on to money. You get a

lot of these brands. I think there's like thirty five thousand brands for up to off the original retail value, which is just fantastic. I think Easton was saying the other day he got his wife something. He spent ten dollars on something that was originally a hundred dollars. That's crazy. Yeah, it's it's insane. Everything I've seen from thread Up, I would not have believed it came from there. Was like,

you know, that's a good quality. Yeah, it's incredible. It's a thrift store usually has a connotation that's like you're gonna be covered in moth balls, and it's like Grandma clothes. No no, no, no no no, not the case of threat. No no, no no. I love it. It's the world. Like I said, it's the world's largest online thrift store, with over thirty five th brands off every autumn on the site goes through a twelve point quality inspection process. So like Easton said, you know you're not good. You

know you're gonna get good quality clothes. It's not even gonna look like it came from from a thrift store or anything like that. I think free People dresses for ten dollars, Day Crew jeans for twelve dollars, Kate Spade handbags for thirty dollars. I love a good Kate Spade handbag. But if you go to if you got a thread up, uh, we're offering all of the help I suck a dating listeners in extra thirty percent off their very first order.

So go to thread up dot com slash dean that's th h r e d up dot com slash dean for an extra off the already up to off retail value and invest in yourself, invest in your friends, go to threat dot com slash Dean love it. So, do you want to talk about what happened last night on The Bachelor? Yeah? I I appreciate Justin's perspective because while it wasn't necessarily perfectly aligned with what we're talking about on a daily basis through this podcast, it was still

unique to hear. You know, there are some people out there that are doing good in the world. But I think that we would be remiss to not talk about the Bachelor finale last night. And again, Easton didn't watch it, so he might it might be seen some peripheral reactions, though, So I think we've we've talked a lot about it without you amongst us, Eastince, he heard quite a bit

about it. I think, okay, And I think it's almost maybe better that you didn't watch it for this instance, because it kind of gives you less of a bias one way or the other. Um. I would love to hear Erica's perspective. So I watching the show, loved both Back and Lauren be Like, no issues with either of them at all. Um, But watching I knew a spoiler that he was gonna break up with whoever he got

engaged to. So watching that proposal was so painful because then he gives her the final rose and spins her around and the rose breaks. Yeah, like, oh my gosh, she should have known at that moment um. But I just don't think that they needed to film her getting broken up with, like she was so blindsided. See that's where I disagree with you. You think they should have done it. I think it's totally cool. I think it was the best way to handle a very bad situation.

It wasn't good by any means, but it was the best way that they could have done the very bad thing that was doing. And here's my thing. Let's and let's maybe you bring it back to that final where he told Lauren that he wasn't going to propose to her, but then he still told her he loved her. Yes, that was interesting, and she said, I mean, I still love you. And I think they kissed before you No, they didn't. I think he kissed her like on the cheek or something. Okay, a close close close it was

it was. And then come down comes Becca. He proposes um and it was cute. It was a sweet proposal, but like he didn't cry. No one cried. He's been very devoid of emotion the entire season. And it's funny too, because I was sitting Nick Vile and I were Nickle and I were watching the finale with the live audience last night in Burbank wherever. Yeah, I saw your little camp on the Yeah, yeah, we'll can get that later as well. But Nick was like, I don't think I

saw him cry once. I cried all the time in my season. He guysn't even cried once. I'm like, I didn't even realize. But you're right, he didn't didn't really cry, which maybe he's just not a crier. You can't really fault him for that. But here's my thing. So he picks Becca. Um thinks he made the right decision, and at the time, maybe it was the right decision. Like I don't think he should have proposed to her. I think that was the biggest mistake that he possibly made

in that situation. He chose that morning. Like, if someone's proposing to me, I hope they know damn well, but for that morning, and yeah, and exactly, And here's the thing. I would never I would hope that no one would ever propose to someone while they're in love with someone else. So he could definitely be in love with Becca and wants to be with her, but not proposed to her if he's still in love with Lauren. So that's the challenging thing. And then here's where I tend to disagree

with a lot of the viewers. Um was the televised breakup tasteful? Absolutely not? Was it ethical? Probably not? Was it brilliant TV? Yes not even that was a brilliant TV. But I think that if you think about it this way, you look at Nick and Vanessa's breakup, no one really knows why they broke up. You look at Ben and lawrence breakup, no one really knows why they broke up. You know, you hear stories from both sides, but no one's ever certain. With this situation, it's very objectively clear

why they broke up. It's because Ari was in love with Lauren and in order for Becca. And again this is kind of since we haven't seen who's announced as a bachelor at assuming that Becca wants to be the bachelorette, this was really the only way to go about it because now everyone can be certain that are you is kind of the jerk that dumped her to get back together with Lauren, and now there's no he said, she said going into this bachelorette announcement. And again that's only

assuming that Becca wants to be the bachelorette. If she's not the bachelorette, I think that it probably could have been should have been handled a lot differently. Um, But that's that's kind of my thoughts on it. I just him like refusing to leave that horrible. She asked him

to leave, and he walks out. He walks out of the house, and I'm like, that was okay, great, And he walks back in and sits there, sits there, and then goes through the house and finds her and then sits there and she's crying and she has her hands over her face and she's like, please stop staring at me. Like he's just sitting there. He's not crying, he's just sitting there, like staring at her. I just he needed

to leave much earlier than he did. And I remember seeing like I remember people saying like, oh, producers were telling him to sit there and stay and like like just draw draw it out. I don't think so at all.

There were no there was no communication. It was just cameraman in the room with them, like And I think that if anyone was ever in a situation like that, they wouldn't like, there's it's just your emotion, and they wouldn't sit there listen to a producer telling them to stay on the couch for the X amount of time longer you're just gonna act instinctively regardless. I think that if I was back in that situation, I would have

just gotten up and walked away. But I hated how um when Becca was like just leave, just leave, just leave, probably said a five times, he already sat there, kind of didn't say anything, and then after maybe like a pause, always like Okay, I think we're gonna go now, and it's like, well, yeah, you should have left five minutes ago.

Do it when it's on her terms, not yours, And he's kind of like putting on himself, like now I'm going to leave because I feel comfortable leaving, not when she was like, you need to leave because this is way too much for me. So that was really that. I didn't really like that obviously at all. I don't think anyone likes kind of how long he lingered. Um. I'm also just really interested to see what happens tonight, which is actually live, Like so that's so yeah, okay,

I think it is. It is actually a live and like they're saying, like, oh, like Ari and Lauren seeing each other again, but they for sure talked since he broke up with Becca, right, what do you mean don't you think Lauren and Ari have been in communication ever since he broke up with Becca? I think they're together, right, But they're trying to tease it as if like, see what happens when we get Lauren and Ari on the stage, see if she'll take him back? And I'm like, I

just feel like they've been talking this whole time. If you're Lauren w and you take him back, he's not the most hated dude in the country right now, it's bad feel like being that's just like watching from the sidelines. I was like, is she like psyched on this or like, how does she feel? No one knows. She hasn't said a think. I don't know if I could take him back if he was like, oh my god, I love you, but I love her more than I'm going to propose

to her. So that's the thing too. I think that's the reason that he's being crucified as much as he is, and he should be because he never should have proposed Rebecca. No. No, he should have said, do you want to continue a relationship with me? It's so bad? Do you think that there was any way in the world this show could have ended with him saying, I'd like to continue to date both of you. Oh, that would have been juicy, because like, that's the real world, you date a couple

of people. I think I saw an interview with Ben where he was like, if he wasn't certain the day of proposing Tobecca, he should have asked for like a couple of day extension to film a couple more days with the girls, and maybe that would have made a huge difference. That would be brilliant. I don't know, great, I don't know, But I just don't know if he really thought through it all, Like in his mind it was like the TV show is ending, and I have to make my decision, and Becca makes sense, so I'm

gonna go with Becca. Do you think it was his parents or his family that kind of swayed him, because I feel like, oh, his family loved Lauren, yeah, but I think they like Becca a little more. And they didn't show it on the show. All they showed with Becca with his family was them asking Becca about Lauren. It was so weird. That was pretty rough. Yeah, and it kept cutting Tobecca an interview saying I have to hear Lauren's name one more time. I'm a little not upset.

I'm a little bummed that we were at the live viewing of the finale because I would much rather be at the the thing tonight. You would rather been there tonight. Yeah, I'm really excited to watch tonight. It's gonna be It's gonna be fun, I think. And it's funny too because this season up until now it has been pretty lackluster, um, not incredibly exciting, but now everyone's like waiting on the

edge of their seat. I can't imagine the pitchforks and people that would be coming after him if like we were super invested in these relationships Instead, I kind of just like, he'll pick one. It's cool, But like, imagine if what if? What if it was like like everyone was so into Rachel's season with like, oh my god, it's gonna be Brian, is it gonna be Peter? Like, oh,

we all thought it was gonna be Peter. If she had done the switcher real actually really good point, it would have been like she would have had to leave the country. I wonder how much. I don't know, It's just like how much can you think was one side and one of the other side, Like how much was

Ari and how much were the producers? Like, because you know that the producers had to have known that Ari wasn't certain about the relationship with Becca, and then that's kind of when they were like, if you're not certain about this, we need to get this on camera. And

then of course I agreed to it. And again I think that that was the steps that were necessary to have Becca have the the public closure that she could possibly get because and again that's kind of what I keep thinking back to, is if they if they didn't air that very awkward, unedited, then very publicly Becca's relationship would be very like ambiguous and uncertain to everyone as to wide ended. And I think that was the necessary

step in kind of closing that ambiguity. Do you think as much as it was super embarrassing for her, and she said that herself was like, oh my god, that also in the end is going to help her, like publicly be moved on. I think, so Okay, I mean I'm not I'm not a fan of it necessarily, but I think that it was the best of a very

bad situation. What would you have done though, if like you were in Becca's shoes and say Rachel did choose you and you were sitting there and she's breaking up with you on camera, Like, I guess you got broken up with on camera away and that's the thing to these people sign up for this and like it was bad.

I probably was like all time high in terms of I don't know, being broken up with on camera, Like this might be the top of the top, but this is exactly what they everyone agreed to do before going on the show. Do you remember that time that I had to take you to your motorcycle and I was like going off about how big of a Bachelor fan was and I was like, oh my god, did you ever see Jason Mesnick season? Wait? Mesnick was there last night? Yes, because he's the one who's done this before. So here's

the thing. Isn't he still married to the girl that he so is? That is that's a success story? Isn't it? A part of me is saying maybe Lauren b should take him back and get married and maybe they'll be happy forever. But then in ten years from how we're gonna look back and still think of Aria as this We still think, no, we don't think of Jason as a horrible person. Now it's like, oh my god, how

sweet he really made the right to haven't eight years? Yes, he has one from a previous relationship who is thirteen. I did research today, super fan. Oh yeah, um. And then they have a five year old daughter. I think five somewhere around there. But I promise our resources today. And again, I mean, I hate defending the guy, but at the end of the day, are you went on the show to find love? And if his heart was telling him to go with Lauren, it's just a proposal.

I just don't propose. Just don't propose. Is any better off And this is true in all relationships. Just being honest rather than staying in something that's bad. Every every party involved is better off with him being honest. That is not going to get married to someone who she shouldn't marry. Jared was saying last night that he was

almost overly honest too. When he was having that conversation with Becca he kept saying when he was breaking up with Becca, he kept mentioning Lauren, which was just horrible. I think he had to be what if then he never said it. He's just like, I don't think it's working out whatever, and then she's like, I'm sorry, you know, two months later you're back with Lauren. B I think he had to be honest. Did he propose to Lauren? He's just with her. He has not yet, We don't.

We were speculating there could be a proposal tonight on. Did he have to get the ring back from Becca when she handed it back? Okay, she took it off. I'm very proud of her for doing that. Literally, like thirty seconds in the conversation, I know she was still wearing it, and then the next thing I realized that she had taken it off. I was like at a girl, and he like walked outside and was holding it and was looking at it. It It was so weird. Yeah, that

house was weird houses. Oh my god. There were so many doors that led to the same place. Were they the only ones in the house? Because I'm hearing him like wandering the halls like a like an empty manner, picturing them two and then two or three cameras at the camera crew, and you could see a lot of camera crew because it was unedited. I mean, you would know better than anyone in this room. Was that the first ever side by side like split screen that they

ever had? Yes, what do you think of that? Amazing because you could see Becca and you could usually at some points the cameras went off, which was interesting, like you could only see one of them. Uh No, I think the unedited was good, and I do think it favored Becca. Do you I mean, do you think she wants to come the Bachelor? That's the thing. If she doesn't want to be the bachelortte, then everything I said

completely disintegrates. It has no foundation whatsoever. But I don't I would almost advise her not to be the Bachelor. I think it's really soon, like they start filming, what in March, two weeks something like that. I'm sure in March, it's already marchch Um, in a couple of weeks. Like, if I'm in, everything I say has to be taking with the huge grain of salt. But I would almost advise not to take the role of bachelor at for her. Should she go in Paradise instead? Nope, Okay, she should

avoid Bachelor World for the rest of her life. No, okay, not necessarily should come back next Bachelor. I don't. I haven't really thought that part of the police so, like, wait a year, maybe it was this was she was engaged. You know, that's crazy to think about, and now she's not. I've never even been close to engaged, so I can't imagine being like the rest of my life has planned out. I'm gonna be with this man, We're gonna have babies, we're gonna move here, blah blah blah. Never mind. She

did say something along the lines of my future. I had my future all planned out and now it's not for me. That was really sad. I hope she yells at him tonight. I think at the end of the day, we will all very very much love to see a Becca love story. M hmm, like there if she wanted it. Tears. I am team backup for Bachelorette, But I do think it's very soon and very intense. I don't know, it's tough.

I'm excited to see how it all until tonight, and again I'm a little worried that something is going to catch us completely off guard and this is all going to sound completely ridiculous everything that we just talked about, But who knows, that's the fun of live show. I don't know what I'm saying. Do you want do some emails or do you want to keep talking about you know, Becca? I don't know. I still feel like I have some points to get across. I haven't gotten across yet. What

is up Dean? And I'm just thinking I want to because I came in I was like, Okay, I want to talk about this and this and this. I feel this way about that. I think, yeah, I just I get always get brought back to the proposal you shouldn't proposed. But then I feel like he has this inkling or this urge to make sure that everyone that he knows to like like him. He like he wants everyone to like him. He wants to be well liked, and I think that's his ultimate pitfall, yeah, in life, and that's

why he came across. Also was boring, I think, unfortunately. And then he's like savagely tweeting and the women tell all those tweets were amazing. Did you see those? Um? I remember seeing a picture that he posted of like pachelor and Paradise auditions. Ops, I mean the women tell all Yeah, which, like it's where was that personality the whole show? You know? Um? And he called out Crystal on Twitter. It was just funny. But I feel like

you're right when we see him on screen. Well, I I tweeted out, like last week that already comes Across is boring on the TV show, But Ben came Across is born on the TV show and Ben is not born at all at all, like stand up Dude. It was just stand up duting. He's charismatics as hell. And so it's like I can understand that they don't necessarily have to edit the leads personality into it as much

because it's more about the women's in that sense. Um, but who would you have picked if it was if those were your top two and you had to pick? I know this is not a cool game because you like have a girlfriend, but like, just say you had the fifth on that one? Oh my god, who would you have picked if you were an I don't know, I'm a girl's okay, come on, we're role playing here. Sure, Becca way more personality and I really like more and

beat So if she like is listening that's fine. I'm sure now, I'm just like, I don't want everyone to like me. Um Becca seems great, and again, if she decided to go Bachelorrette route, I think that she should probably get a great quality group of guys. I would hope so like those guys would be really lucky to have the opportunity to be able to date her. But yeah,

it all depends on what happens tonight. It's weird how invested in the season I am, because I think I've told you this before I went on Rachel season at Bachelor. I was never a fan of The Bachelor, Bachelor or anything like that. Has you ever seen an episode at all? I've seen a couple episodes, but one of my best not quite one of my best friends made you watch some of Joe Joe's season or Ben season and then

jo Jo's season. So I saw like three episodes, but they're double I love you, not quite as bad as this one. But so, this was the first season I watched start to finish, even though I skipped over a couple episodes in the middle because it's just two born. Yeah, I had a hard time, so I had to force myself and I'm I haven't even I haven't even watched the final taple ssodes at Winter Games yet. Oh, so you haven't watched yourself? Oh, is that the episodes were

the kissing competitions in it? Let's talk about that for a second. Yeah, well we should talk about that, because while I didn't watch the episode, there was I was on Twitter while the episode is airing. Is there any bad blood between you and Rachel? Because it comes across that way on on the show. So here's my take on that whole kissing competition whatever I was gonna have

to say, dancing competition. It was definitely not a dancing Well, um, let's talk about the kissing competition or just win two games in general, but we'll start with the kissing competition. So, um, that whole night was was interesting. I think at that point there were six couples left, and we walk into

the Hermitage Club. Every time we walked in one of those roads ceremonies, we didn't know how it was gonna be structured or what they were going to do every single time, and I think part of that was because they didn't know what they wanted to do. Um, And so we walked into that basically what were we think? There was fourteen of us seven couples, and Claire and Christian left before they even got to that point. Um,

and we're sitting there and Chris Harrison comes in. He's like, all right, like, we're going to have a kissing competition to see who goes home. And immediately I thought, I was like, how old are we We're having a kissing

competition to see who's staying around. And that was the first thought that I think Leslie had to because Leslie, now, we're very, very uh sound in our relationship and regardless of whether we went home that night or not, we knew that we were gonna have a relationship outside of the show. And so to be presented this like juvenile idea of having to perform in a kissing competition to prove your merit to stick around on The Bachelor Winter Games,

we were both kind of like, that's ridiculous. So what we're gonna do is fight juvenile with juvenile and turn a kissing competition into something just completely ridiculous and just, I don't know, have fun with it. And so that's kind of where our mindset came from. We're like, we've been making out every single day for the past two weeks. We don't have to worry about whether we think we have other people think we have chemistry or passion or not.

We know how to kiss. It's fine. Exactly at the point that you decided to create your little routine, did you know the judges? No, No, absolutely not. That's what the issue was, Okay, and there wasn't even an issue. So I think we were like sitting there on the couch every like all the couples basically branched off and they were practicing kissing or whatever it was unless and they were like sitting on the couch. Um, like when

we were like, what do we have to worry about? Like, we don't care about again because if we get sent home, we're still gonna have a relationship outside of UM. We honestly didn't think that there was any real possibility of us getting so at home UM because again, Claire and Christian never kissed each other. H Josiah and Ali, God, we have to talk about Claire too, and so we were like, like what could we do? And then we started like practicing a kiss. We're like, all right, you're

gonna bite my lip. On the third smooch and like we're all going through like the logistics of kissing each other and like this is ridiculous, there's no like what the heck, So like let's try and put a fun spin on this. And she and then we were like talking about her like dance routines in high school, and so we were both like, wait, let's like plan a core got dance routine. And then it kind of like snomballed on this thing. And then they announced the judges

and yeah, Rachel came down. But what's funny is it was just hilarious to see that, you know, like it's it's weird and awkward kissing in front of someone that dated on TV for however long. But then after the fact, like they've had very specific roles and I think Rachel eleven tweeted at one point like um one was Simon one was oh, Like they were kind of told like yeah, being like Rachel, be hypercritical, um Jojo, you're the Randy Jackson, You're going to be like the kind of the cool one,

whatever it is. And even like after the fact, we we did the thing and they were basically were relieved with their duties of judging, and I was like upstairs, everyone was upset, Like all the girls were like I can't believe these people come in like judge our kissing ability, Like who do they think they are? Um. Kevin was like really annoyed because I think they were hypocritical of Ashley and his kiss or something they did eventually before

the results. Um, and I was sitting there like, I was like, you guys have to understand how ridiculous this thing is. It was all it's it's an act, it's a TV show, it's entertainment. But everyone took everything so personally. Um. And then like Jojo and Rachel both came upstairs and like said high and like we were all friendly. So it's like there was no bad blood whatsoever. It was just like everyone is playing a character. I think also, like the whole on of Winter Games was that no

one took anything seriously. Nothing about that was serious, and especially when you put a kissing competition in there, you can't take it serious with like full grown adults. Yes, that's so. That's that was the biggest thing with me. It was like I'm all for being goofy and quirky and juvenile and having fun, but if you guys are going to make this very goofy thing seemed very very serious. Then we're going to strip it of its seriousness and increase the goofiness of it. Um And so that guys

are set, thank you. And what's funny too is Courtney and only had this whole big thing planned and then Leslie and I went first, and after we did our thing, they decided to kind of nix their whole routine. And that's amazing, which is pretty funny. So you were the guinea pigs and they said never mind. But I'm very proud. I'm very happy with how it ended. So um, yeah, that was the one that was another oneter game thing that I want to talk about because because there was

just a lot of I guess chatter about that. Yeah, people were like freaking out, and I mean me watching it, I'm like, oh my god, does she actually hate him? Because she's been on this show before and you guys got along great. Yeah. I think you guys are pretty cool, right. I mean, we're not friends, but we have no issue with each other. What are your thoughts? Like, You're you're

not friends, but you're friendly with your ex? Yeah, I mean I don't think like Rachel I don't text each other, okay, but if you like never would or just not regularly, don't. I don't think ever, like if I saw her walking down the street, I would walk like I'm sure we would walk up to each other and be like, hey, good to see you. How are you like you do that? I wouldn't. I wouldn't text her, and she wouldn't text me and be like, hey, how is how are things?

Because that's weird. It's just and disrespectful of each other's current relationships. We sure, okay? Sure? All right? Yeah? Um, Clarien ben wois how funny was? I was surprised by that. So Leslie and Claire our friends and Leslie it didn't even see it coming. Just how long do you know how long they were back together? I guess between when they called and when they got engaged. When he texted her saying like, hey, how are you say? Like six weeks? So? Um?

What like getting engaged after six weeks? I guess is the thing on the back? Yeah, I guess. But like that was different. That wasn't on TV. They weren't spending all this time together, right, well? I think that so ben Wall lives in Canada and Claire lives in sacrament I'm pretty sure Ben was spent a lot of time in Sacramento with Claire before obviously making that decision. I don't know for certain, but I know that Ben wasn't incredbly nice guy, and I know that Claire has been

looking for a nice guy. I like that. So do you think they'll work Do you think it's gonna work out? I don't think I know either them well enough to really make that Okay, you didn't spend a lot of time with them, and well, Ben Wall left kind of early, kind of early, and honestly, like I spent all my time with Leslie, or if I wasn't with Leslie, was both Ben or Luke or Ashley, and Luke was pretty cool to Stacy as well. That ending, Yeah, that was pretty rough. Would you ever, like, how do you end

a relationship like that? Or did they not have a relationship? I feel like we have so much to cover. Yeah, the whole Luke and Saucy thing was was kind of hard to watch, especially sitting in the audience, um, because Luke was like Luke and I had spent the weekend up in Carmel with a couple of our other friends that weekend before, and he like seemed pretty confident. He thought that every one was like on the same page in terms like like him and Stacy knew that the

relationship wasn't gonna work. Um, I didn't really speak to him in great depths about anything like that, but like he wasn't worried going into it, like oh my, it's me so awful seeing her. No, And I think that people even tried to be like prepare him a little bit and be like, hey, you need to kind of figure out what you're going to say up there, and he's like, no, that's fine, Like Sacy, do I understand

each other? Um, because I think that he is. I think that he really thought that what he did at the end of Winter Games was perfectly adequate in terms of like ending the relationship. And I didn't. I don't. I didn't see any It was like not on camera, it was just like personally. After we got done filming, I think we all spent like two or three days in the in a hotel without cameras, just kind of like camp. Yeah, like decompressing kind of thing. Um, we

all separate rooms, etcetera, etcetera. But we all got dinner together every night and like got some drinks and all that kind of stuff. And I think that in that time, Luke thought that what he had done was adequate to kind of end the relationship. I don't know, I don't I don't remember. Yeah, I guess I didn't talk to him my great links about it, but feel bad for

him that it was really brutal. And then mostly it was like social media after it was like, because the worst people love just making the big little things in the big things something that was a little thing because against Sacy's feelings are very real and very justified to feel that way. But it was just a huge miss communication. Really, That's what I think. Yeah, it seems like at least it's also funny because I'm like, oh my god, the people on social media after, like, you should see me

tweeting about this show. It is as if my life ends on it. And we read some of your tweets real quick, Oh gosh, um, let's see from last night.

Well I tweeted this one this morning. Guys. Two things, One, why is no one talking about when Becca came out of the limo and had already get on a knee and practice proposing and then he did it, not for real again to the final rows, broken Already spun her around, which is what I was that was that was really interesting how Becca was the one that made Already get down on one knee and then he proposed And I think I'm going to start meeting every man, like every

first day, I'm going to be like, can you do me a favor? Get down on a knee, and say let's do the damn thing. So this weird tradition where every first day I go on, I make the guy get down on a knee, just so I can see what the future could potentially hold for it. Yeah, maybe every time I'll get engaged. Well she asked him to do that and he just pulls a ring out? Is

that how you know? She like had should they like faked it when she came out of the limo at the very beginning of the show, And yeah, and it was really cute and I at that moment was like I love that girl. Yet didn't work out for her though, Um, I didn't tweet that much last night. I'm sorry, but like I'm part of the problem. You get really amped up when you're watching these shows and you think that these relationships like you know them all, but you don't know.

And then it's it's funny too, because social media is such a beast, Like you go to Oris page and look at all of his comments. You go to even

like Becca's page or Lawrence page. It's awful. It's so bad, and people like they're like attacking like the most personal things about someone, which at the end of the day, like we we do put ourselves on TV and we put ourselves up to be scrutinized like that, but sometimes you will just take it to a level that really never really needs good to what's your social media have been like since you've been fly in a relationship? Are

people nice? Are people criticizing you? It's been a mixed bag really, Yeah, everything about you and Leslie was so like pure and innocent and so sweet. And I understand that maybe past relationships are like why people are so rude,

but I thought we had all gotten over that. It was funny too, because when Leslie and I were together, uh yeah, during Winter Games, I kept telling her and like I was like, you have I just want you to be ready for like kind of like this this Malstrom that's going to come after the fact, like and I did my best to prepare here, but they definitely

like took a toll in the relationship right away. It's hard to go from dating someone for fourteen days in a bubble and then like you get out of that bubble and you kind of have to relearn how to date that person because you're learning so much more about them, like how they interact on a daily basis if you're not going to see them instead of you're just living

in the same house as them. And there were moments too, where I think both of us were kind of like this sucks, Like we really liked each other during Winter Games and things are incredibly challenging right now, and I think there were moments that both of us were like, maybe we should just kind of take a step back

and like are you freaking did everything? But I think at the end of the day, like we both really genuinely liked each other, and there was a lot of things that we're difficult but weren't difficult to get rid of. I guess, like, how did you get over that kind of stuff? Um, it just takes time. It was it was, it's still taking time. I mean, I think that we're really in a really a good spot, and I can say very safely say that I'm in like the healthiest

relationship I've ever been in, and I'm incredibly happy. Um, but there were a lot of times where hey, Mark, yeah, there were a lot of times that really tested our I guess our relationship for sure. It's it's so detrimental to relationships, especially have to like hide it, to not be able to like post public pictures, to not be able to like talk on a podcast about the relationship that you're in, and have to talk about a hypothetical

podcast or relationship, um, if he's in a relationship. Yeah, it's super, super challenging, and I like incredible respect for the leads of the shows who have to hide it to the fullest extent because less than I tried to hide it, but we we really weren't. Yeah, you guys were horrible. I could tell like every moment that you were together, she'd be posting the exact same things the

lead to the show. This is interesting on social media, they're posting like like photos every week of like, oh, this amazing date with this girl and then two weeks of breaking up with them on TV. But they had to pretend like it was like he posted so much lovely stuff about Becca, probably definitely after they broke up. I think that's tricky. I mean, you definitely have to kind of tell the story through you on social media as this season's unfolding, even though it already happened to

you in your life. I don't think that when I went through the first season, there were never any obligations to post about anything at any time. It was just like, you post kind of about what you're what you want to post, which makes me think I would imagine that Area had the same privilege of kind of posting what you want when he wanted, and no one was ever like you need to post about this to do this whatever.

I talked back up today and like she posted stuff just last week being like like with him, and I'm like, did they require her to post that? I can almost assure you that they did not require her. God, which it's I don't know. It's kind of hard to be because even though it are, even though you've already experienced that, you're reliving it again through the TV screen, and it's almost kind of like you're in that moment again. I guess even though she it's really tricky. I don't know.

Did you like feel like you got broken up with again when you rewatched your break up with Rachel? Are we kind of moved on that? When I watched it, I was already through Paradise. Oh my god, that was way after the fact. Okay, so you were moved on?

How was watching Paradise back awful? I watched it in my room by myself every night at eleven PM before bed, and I watched it with both hands over my eyes, speaking through the creeks, is in my fingers, like I still watching a resident evil scary movie or something like that. It was kind of a scary movie for you. It's like a scary reality show. And I didn't. I listened with no sound and with close caption. Hey Mark, how

are you? Oh my god? Okay, I think I know the answer to this already, but I've I've been curious. Do you You don't have any like if something goes like really sideway while you're on a date with somebody on this show and you like, can you go to a producer? Please? Please don't air that you can ask for There were a lot of things auring Winter Games that I asked them not to air, just in terms of like, I feel like we didn't see that much,

even Leslie on Winter Games. We didn't and that's fine. Um, I was just like conversations about talking about like my past relationships. I want to speak to you specifically, but I was like, I just don't want this to be a new storyline, Like I want the storyline of lesson to me to be the one that's told, not the one in my past relationship, you know. And there were

moments even two watching Winter Games back and again. I haven't watched the third and fourth episode, but the first two episodes there were things that I was like, they really messed me over with the editing. Um, but I mean it's like, what can you expect that because he can't really go in there expect pent accuracy. Were there are things they didn't show that you wish they had, Um, Yeah, they didn't show we had Like because Lessie and I went on two dates, I didn't really show either of

those dates very much at all. They didn't show the dates at all. In Winter Games. It was like all of a sudden, you saw a five seconds clip and then was over. That was kind of annoying. But again, I think that's only developing storylines. I didn't really just have enough time to tell everything. Four episodes two hours long. UM. But all in all, I mean it was a good experience. I'm incredibly happy, Like Leslie and I don't have producers texting and calling us every single day to check in

on us. It's it's so much more relieving to have a relationship where you can just like be yourselves in the relationship. At what point did you have producers every like leading up to the reunion, like how are things with you and Leslie? Unless he was like I was like, I was like I would remember, I would call Leslie and Leslie like, I got three calls from producers today continuously asking me how I am. This is like the most anxiety written thing, like I'm I'm like freaking out,

blah blah blah blah blah. And She's like, yeah, they keep calling me to UM, and I think they just want to have like a very real idea of what they can kind of set up for the finale or for the reunion whatever it is. UM. So you're getting on a knee with the key, they're setting that up along or do you set that up with that your idea. Well,

they didn't set that up. That wasn't like something that they played the no that I mean, see you surprise the producers and we're like, I'm gonna pretend to propose it was a joint idea. But you and Leslie okay, Yeah, and it's nice. It's it's very again, I think Leslie relationship has gone through the hardest points of having to get past the part of being on TV and now we can just be normal people and have a relationship. Yeah, which is exciting. What does that like look like for

you guys, because she travels all the time. Yeah, I mean we both kind of like traveling. So we just got back from Honduras for two weeks. Um. It's funny. I think we've been dating for three months and the longest time we've spent apart from each other like seven days. Like we've go We've done these trips where we spent like two weeks consecutively with each other. Um, and then like we'll spend weekends together, like we're going to Colorado

this weekend. I'm going to India next week for two weeks without her, like with just some of my best friends. So that'll be interesting to see how I'm sure. I mean, obviously I'm sure we'll be fine, but that will be the longest duration of time that we spent apart from each other. Um. But I think it's it's I'm very excited for what the future holds, which is very fun to say. I haven't really been able to say that

at all. There have been so many people, sorry, market so many people coming out from my life asking if you guys are engaged because they know I work on this show, and I'm like, and I've been saying yes every single time. I love it. Some all of my best friends have even text me and they're like, hey,

are you engaged? And like, if I was really engaged, I would have told all of you guys, um, but they would like send me because Leslie posted an instagram of me on a knee and they were all sending they were all sending me that picture, like what the hell is this? And I was like, well, maybe you should just watch because it was fun. Like it was. It was very lighthearted at the end of the day.

And I mean, Leslie knew that I wasn't going to ask her to marry me in that moment, so it was just very lighthearted gesture and like, and she's technically homeless. She travels around all the time, so it's important for her to know that if she ever needs a place to stay, she can stay at my house. Why are you going to India? Um? All places in the world

just kind of random. My best friend got a job out there last year with the Amazon Unscripted and so me and like four my other great friends are just traveling out there to visiting for the first That's a good reason to go to India. So we're doing the pod cast from India. Then R coming with me. Welcome Mark to the studio. We missed you. Thank you. I'm sorry. I get stuck in meetings sometimes. Okay, I apologize. I understand I'm not the priority in your heart media. What

did I miss? Was it a great show? Well? We talked a lot about the last night's Bachelor finale. Um, did you take any phone call We spoke with Justin McMillan founder, Yeah, about hugging about treehouse recovery. So I was not our usual guest, I would say, but it was nice to hear a perspective. What about emails, I haven't any emails yet. Well, should we do that before we wrap it up. I feel like I should because

people need your help. I think that we didn't have an Asked Dean Anything planned we were going to and I was wondering if we're going to do this. So let's let's we lock it in for next week. You can say that for next week, ask Dean anything next week, because he's finally freed of the shackles of constraints of

a contractual obligation to reality television. And I think that it's good that we set it up that way a because now we can kind of like tease it for next week a little bit and be everyone's so focused on the Bachelor finale, that's true. Who cares about Dean any day of the week less this week. Well that's a good plan. So next week, get your questions ready. We'll take some phone calls and we'll look on you. You can, you can tweet us your questions or whatever.

We'll do Ask Dean anything next week. I'll tweet out a phone number for us to call. Okay, great, so watch Dean do do the alert thing for Dean add an alert to your phone for postifications. I wish I could. That's what it is. Still that at Twitter. I would never urge anyone to turn on post edifications. Erica has a for Taylor Swift. Yeah, that's it. That's the only person that's good. From anonymous Dean and Mark, I want your opinion on this. I've beendating my boyfriend over four years.

We moved in together in June. Everything's great, he is my person. Here's the plot twist. I did his old friend slash college teammate obviously prior to my boyfriend and I got together. And yes, my boyfriend's old teammate was my first love, my first everything. Fast forward to present day, four years later with my boyfriend six years later from my first love, and the first love has moved to the same city that we live in. We hang out almost every weekend. I also work with my first love.

He's in a four year relationship as well, but his girlfriend doesn't know about the past. There are instances where we'll all get drunk on the weekends and the first level make comments about back in the day. Help what do I do ignore the comments when he's drunk? What do we do about his current girlfriend not knowing? Dean's really given some thoughts. What I'm waiting for Dean to Erica, go ahead, Well, I don't think the comments are harmful.

My first love and I are still friendly because we have all the same high school friends and like he will make sometimes jokes. It's fine. We have not hooked up again in many years, and it happened once, but it has been several several years laps once post relation one time and like whatever, it was literally years ago. But you're also single, and is he single? He has a girlfriend. His girlfriend doesn't really love me, but we are working on that because I run into her all

the time and it's fine. And so he was dating her when you guys, No, no, god, no, oh my god, no, wonder she would hate me if that was the case. No, no, but I get you're not liking your boyfriend hanging out with his exes. I get that perspective. I'm kind of an intimidating personality as well. I get it. It's fine, Um, but I don't think the comments are harmful. But the girlfriend should know that he works with But I would say it's not anonymous as responsibility to tell the girlfriend.

That's up to him. Oh heck, now, yeah, that's on him to make that clear to her. That's his responsibility. I didn't follow that story incredibly well, so I'm struggling to understand. It is a little bit complicated, but I think it's basically her ex from college is now in the city with her and her boyfriend and they all hang out together but they're both in relationships. Yeah, I think they're harmless comments. Her current boyfriend is like buddies with her X. I think it's fine, and he seems

down with everything. It's just the ex girl the the current exs girlfriend that doesn't know. I hate it. Actually, I'm sorry. I don't like the situation at all. So what do you What is the girl supposed to do? Tell the girlfriend? UM, I guess it really depends where the comments are, but it's just a very That's a pretty unhealthy dynamic. If you're dating a guy who you is, who is your person, but who is also best friends with the first love of your life, that's weird. Who

makes comments about the good old days, that's weird. I don't like it. So what's your advice, UM, don't get drunk with the first love. I kind of agree with that. You can still be friends, but just don't get drunk around each other. Yeah, why are you hanging out so much?

What's with that? Why do they work together? Is another He's hard to avoid if they work together, But you don't think I think the issue is when they're drunk, because when they talk about the feelings that they maybe once had, and that just just there's no place for that in their relationship. But you can work together because you're not gonna be drunk at work. You're not gonna be shooting your feelings at work. For that's my that's keep it professional. Eric was like, I'm drunk, right, I'm

not h Anonymous. Another anonymous to Dean Mark Eastern Erica, look at that she had all four of us. I'm twenty five, married, happy. I met my husband in a very unorthodox way three years ago. Okay, so this is a little confusing too, but this is a good one. I like this. This is very interesting to me. All right. Prior to my current relationship, as I was in a relationship for seven years with my ex, we were a

high school sweethearts. We're gonna call him Steve. He bought me a lesson to learn to fly at my local airport on my birthday. Great gift. When I went in for my lesson. I found out my instructor was another guy I went to high school with. We're gonna call him Mike. He took my breath away. He was so handsome, funny and smart, and he is now my husband. I dumped Steve after seven years for Mike, and it was an awful breaker. Of course, it was awful. Steve got

you the gift. If he wouldn't got you, if he gotten you something else, you might still be together. Steve. Steve was heartbroken, rightfully. He begged me not to leave. I found out months later that Steve supposedly had a ring for me and was going to ask me to marry him. I cared for Steve a lot, but we didn't have the best relationship anyway. It's been three years since the breakup. I haven't talked to Steve since, but I feel like I never got complete closure. I still

feel guilty after finding out he had a ring. Why am I still hung up on this? I'm truly happy with my husband. I can't seem to get over it, though. Do I talk to Steve three years later, even though he has a serious girlfriend now and I'm married, Or do I hope it all goes away. By the way, my husband, Mike, he knows how I feel about this. He says, don't open those doors again. Your husband is a wise man. I agree with Mike. Yes, why would you open up a Pandora's box from three years ago?

Don't even talk to Steve. Don't even think, well, you can think about Steve. It's you can't just tell someone not to think about something. But don't think about talking to him again. Absolutely, you want to be sensitive to Steve's feelings here, because he was destroyed by this, and there's a pretty good chance if it's three years later and he's got a girlfriend, that he's gotten over it to some extent. I don't know, maybe all the way. But if you go back into his life, you're gonna

rip open all of those scabs. And you don't want to do that. And it's for a selfish excuse me, selfish reason. You getting closure, you don't. You ended it. You ended it, and you're happy, You're good. You got what you needed. Steve, hopefully we'll also get what he needs. But it's for you, it's not for him. I say leave it alone. I think everyone involved in that situation stands to lose in that situation. Yeah, Steve, Mike Anonymous

and Steve, Steve's girlfriends. There's a zero win situation and that in that whole thing, don't talk to Steve. It's good that your husband knows everything. That's the important thing. Yeah, that's great. Good that you're open with about that stuff. She should have done no, sorry, Becca should have done what her husband did and said, no, don't start talking to your X again, because that's why Ari is getting back together with Lauren. But here's the thing. Did Becca

know that are he was talking to his X again? Yes, Becca gave him permission to have a sit down with him. They didn't really address it. They didn't really address it last night, but they kind of mentioned it and then she confirmed in like people or something. Anyway, I'm just saying, can we can we? I'm sorry to everything. I didn't know that Lauren and him. I didn't know that Becky gave him permission talk to Lauren. I can see Becca's confident relationships, so she's like, yeah, I go talk to

her closure. Yeah. Also, I didn't let Lauren already met each other before the season started. Did you catch that? I skimmed over it. I didn't understand it, I do you know what it was? They met in Dallas, and let me google upon the next email all of answers by the end of the okay, and then let me tell you about Rosie. Rosie started hooking up with a coworker a few months ago. It was a semi regular,

secret trift type scenario. I was recently let go, she says, which was devastating on many levels, and since then we've been seeing each other much more frequently. Here's the deal. I started sleeping with him because there was no risk of emotional attachment with him. He's five years younger than I am and much less mature and experienced. Neither of us wanted anything more than casual and relations with each other. All of a sudden, now I find myself craving his presence,

and not even just for the action. I just want to hear him talk and see his face. Do you think that my sudden attachment is just displaced sadness? Am I just sad in this horny a f or does casual sex always evolve into more if it's consistent? What do you do if you don't want to like someone? Thanks so much Love the podcast Agree. The title is mody offensive, but also understand the logistical difficulties of changing the name of a program that's already established. Well, thank

you Ros, such a rational thinker. He is, you want to start on this one, but yeah, I'd love to. I think that, Uh what does she say? Does casual sex always I'm sorry, just casual action always evolve into more of its consistent Um? Yeah, I think it's pretty silly to sit there and think if you're going to constantly have someone over and be intimate with them, that it's not gonna leads anything more unless you're heartless. I think at the end of the day, like you're going

to develop those feeling is. I don't understand maybe why she was fighting them so much because he's five years younger, so what so what? Yeah, Okay, he's less mature than you are and less experience, but you've clearly developed feelings for him. So I think you have two choices. You let him know your feelings and see if they're reciprocated, or two, you end it and stop the casual hookups. Erica, she's gonna have to end it. He's probably not feeling

the same way. Well, we don't know how he's feeling that she didn't really mention that. But god, you guys, this happens all the time. I've been there. You hook up with someone and you're like, it's fun, it's fun, it's fun, and then the girl falls for him and the guy or yeah, the girl falls for him and the guy could care less. But it's certainly possible that a guy in a friends with benefits situation can develop feelings.

It's possible, but more likely for the girl. You're saying he's younger, like, he's probably just having the time of his life. Yeah, but isn't she too, But now she's feeling funny. Yeah, so I think if she gets any impression from him, there might be a reciprocation. Great if not, you know what, either way, you got to stop this. Yeah,

you can have a secret coworker relationships. Was Google like, I'm sorry, I don't think it's I don't think it's Rosy's responsibility to make him evolve it into a relationship, which it doesn't even seem like that's what she really wants. It sounds like she could just continuously have the consistent hookup, but she's getting feelings, and that's kind of what's concerning for her, it sounds like she's craving his presence, that she wants to hear him talk and see his face. Well,

it sounds like she's falling. Start seeing someone else and she's gonna be like devastated. Yeah, the lasts and she says, what do you do when you don't want to like someone? Right? What do you do? I think distance. I think it's it's complete, clean break, and if he's interested, he'll pursue you. It's similar to like getting over a relationship. You just have to cut it off and be over, be done

with it. I think there's definitely something to be said about the convenience of a relationship that that sounds like this has She's used to seeing him consistently but not having to emotionally invest herself, and then she sees herself having to invest emotions and that's where she is getting hesitant from. Which is funny because you normally see these types of emails or these types of reactions from the male's perspective, But it seems like this this kind of

flipped here. So what if she went to him and said, look, this is great, what's been going on with us, but I gotta be honest with you. I've developed feelings for you, and I know that's not what this is. So for my own well being, we need to end this. That's okay because then he has the option of speaking up, but he's likely going to freak out and run probably, But if she's aware of that now she knows she'll

know either way. That way, it reminds me of those like the Ashton Cutcher and Friends with Benefit or No Strings attacks, the exact same movie, just with different characters that came out right around the same time. That was okay, That was a very weird time in cinema. It was

really weird. I remember being in San Francisco and looking at the billboard for one and being like, I thought this start justin to like, it sounds like one of those situations where obviously with different varying aspects, but they're trying to have a physical relationship and then they're struggling. They're fighting the emotions of it because they don't want to have that aspects, but they still kind of crave

the belongingness that they offer each other. But those movies give us a false hope because it's gonna work out. What are the possible endings of a friends with benefits relationship. There is a chance to end up falling in love, okay, but that's more the Hollywood version of it. The other options are one of you develops feelings and one doesn't bad ending, one of you start seeing someone else. They do have feelings for bad ending. So I feel like

there's no good ending. You get pregnant, and there's a lot of options here. Ni disease. Yes, I think she should end it. I agree. And then if he be honest about the reason why you're ending it, end it, Rosie, get out like you You're better than this. I do want to say really quick. I was in a friends benefits situation. I was, I was, and and she, uh, she made her feelings known that that they were stronger than just friendly and uh, and I reciprocated. And now

she's my wife. You know, you're you know that's where he was going at that. I know their whole thing. Oh it's a great And then for him, the benefits might have been the girl could get a free movie tickets, he would take that, and she had a dental plan that was off. Oh my god. All right, Well, speaking of ending it, well, oh yeah, did you find out? Yeah, so, speaking of ending it, that's what already did with Becca

last night. Um. So, Lauren mentioned really weirdly in the episode last night, like, oh my god, I remember the first night walking up from the limo and do you not remember meeting me in Dallas? And she gave him I think a picture of the two of them or something like that. Okay, but they never aired her full intro, so that's why everyone was like, what the heck did she say? And then Batchel ABC exact Robert Mills doan do you know that name? I know the name? I

met him? I think he um tweeted that Lauren had gone to a race of Ari's in Dallas and that they had met there and obviously it was really briefly, and it sounds like maybe she was a fan, which is like kind of weird. So yeah, apparently they had met before, really briefly. And that's about it. I feel like they skimmed over a lot. They really did. They showed a lot of Ronus, but they also skimmed over quite a bit that kind of left us feeling like

we needed more, you know what. This entire season, I've just felt like I really missed the romance. Is it kind of a throwaway season? Do we think in five years are when we're examining the bowels of the Bachelor franchise? I were just gonna forget about this one. You know, we're going to remember Dean Angler on Rachel what is her last name? Lindsay's season. But I think last night

saved the season. I think last night makes this a memorable season, just like we remember Jason Mesnicks season because of that. I remember seeing that it was the highly most highly rated episode of the season. I'm not sure in comparison to other seasons. I also think though, it's going to be one of those things where they kind of go away unless he like marries Lauren or heck, if he marries Becca, who knows at this point. Now

that raises a question. Are Lauren and Ari if they end up together tonight, going to stay together for probably not Erica. If you're Lauren, you're taken back. I just I don't think I could. If you choose someone else and choose to propose to them, It's okay to like choose to exploit your options and come back to me,

because I understand I'm great proposing a little ass. Raven Raven posted a Instagram story with a poll that was, if you were Lauren's friend, would you tell her to get back together with Ari or to run for the hills? And I remember I was like sitting there and I stared at it for like five minutes, and I was like,

which one do I want to vote for? As as long as I've ever taken to consider voting on a pool and I if Lauren was my friend, my best friend, and she came to me for advice on that situation, that's a tough one because if she really loves him, it's just so messy. I don't think I've ever seen I mean, I obviously you haven't seen many many seasons, but it's the messiest season I've ever seen. You weren't there for the mestic days, man, I was. I was fifteen then, by the way, I realized today. So my

view of love has been shaped from Jason Mesnick. I met him last night. He's nice, that's great. Shorter than I expected. I was shocked. I'm not a celebrity. One and two. Yeah, people always say that I look shorter on television. It doesn't do you much justice. I think it's the cropped pants. Yeah. Anyway, on your celebrity Dean, Uh, somebody always makes me laugh is on your Instagram page, it has he listed as a fictional character. Oh yeah,

that's something that makes me laugh routinely. And there's a backstory that sort of If you look at every other cast member, they're all public figures. And the reason that that's there is because you have to link your Instagram with the business page on Facebook, and when you fill the format on Facebook, you have to decide what the business is, and so you choose like public figure, writer,

fictional character, whatever it is. And this was this was right the day before season one, episode one of Batchel there at and I was like, I'm not a public figure by any stretch of the imaginations was going through to think of like the most ironic, satirical title I could and fictional characters like, I mean, that's the most appropriate, you know. Yeah, And you're stuck with that now. I mean I can change it whenever I want, well, but I think you should keep it. I'm not ever going

to change it. I'm going to be for the rest of my life. I just ordered a vanity plate like six months ago. It's pretty embarrassing, like a vanity license plate. What is it? It's pretty embarrassing. I have I want to go pick it up yesterday, but the line of the d NB was too long. What is the plate? Any It's a dany b B so d E A n y b B, which is pretty funny, right, I figured at this point I just gotta keep oning it. Yeah, that's great when you start getting business emails that referdios

did Danny babies? Yes, for the listeners, Erica sometimes receives emails referring to me as Danny Baby, And it's just it's just to think about how far we've come, not far at all. Anyways, let's go ahead and thank Justin McMillan from Treehouse Recovery. UM gets good to have him on. It's good to you know, kind of hear here. His perspective and the physical how important the physical embrace of two humans can be, regardless of male female male male

female female. Um, let's break those down. It's twenty teen. We don't need to worry about those anymore. If you meet someone, just hug them, just going for a big old bear hug. Okay, I'll start hugging, be sure, to follow them on all social media outlets Instagram, Facebook, at Treehouse Recovery. Um, next week, like we mentioned earlier, it's going to be and ask me anything, and ask Dean

anything if you will. I don't know if we're gonna have anyone calling and to ask me any questions, but um, it could be very insightful for the people that you know. You only get such a small glimpse of us on television and through our social media all that kind of stuff. UM, and I definitely want to answer any questions that you guys have. It's like I was talking to Erica earlier about it's so refreshing to be able to just openly

speak about a very healthy relationship. I feel good about it. Also, I'm the luckiest Bachelor fan ever because I get to sit here and be like, so, what's your relationship like now? So now it's their turn. Yes, And in three months you're gonna completely have forgotten about us, which is fine. I will never forget about you guys. UM, keep the emails coming. I suck at dating at iHeartMedia dot com.

If you want to email us any questions about next week, that might be best because that way we can filter some of the ones out that we don't like and the ones I just really don't want to ask me anything. I'm kidding. I'm kidding again, that's I suck at dating at iHeartMedia dot com. And I was actually thinking about this, and I know that Mark and Eastan and I have discussed changing the name quite a bit and what we

could change it too. But I was like driving over here and I was like, now that, like, I feel, I'm very confident in my relationship. I kind of almost don't care about the title as much anymore. Is that the sweetest change of heart? But but what does that mean about all the progress that we made in thinking about new idea? To keep that under your hat, not tell anybody you're fine with the already it's already have. And I think I really need to sit down with

Leslie and have a conversation with her. I know, talked to her about it before. I was like, Hey, do you think that this podcast is a detriment to our relationship at all? She's like, well, no, I mean it's not. I mean it really depends obviously what you go over and all that kind of stuff, but like, if you feel good, so I don't know. I think you know what it is. Now. Help I Suck at Dating is like the call for people to write in like they're saying, Dean,

help I suck at dating? Can you help me? They're the ones saying saying it's not you. I mean, I kind of hate that. I'm starting to be okay with this anyways, until next week. Thank you for listening. This is dn BB driving Away. Follow Help I Suck At Dating with Dean Anglert on I Heart Radio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts