#20 Viall to the Rescue

I guess they knew that from the description, probably before they downroably Dean's off being a better person than is. What do they do down there? Like? Did they build Instagram photos? Like, hey, we're helping the kids. It's not me Instagram. Um yeah, so yeah, help. I stuck at dating? So what does Amy do? She calls me there it is we have an opening for someone who could we host the show? Can we get to replace Dean? Well? Four times reality TV reject? Wait? Four times? The last

time wasn't a reject? That's Erica by the way, being facetious? Were there four times? You know it's weird? I've what I was on other than was it Chrispaksk. I've done the show four times, and now that we have Winter Games and Paradise, there's a lot of people in Batrian Nation who have done the show multiple times but for some reason own the whole like I have been in

on so many times. But you know, I think Ben has done for our shows, but no one blinks and I at that, Well he had his on that's four and it was like on a different channel. But let's be honest, same production company. So Bachelorette Season ten, Bachelorette Season eleven, Bachelor in Paradise sound great, didn't really back back. So she's like, it's a total well, actually, Bachelorette Season A, Bachelor Season twenty one, and then Dancing with the Stars.

You could are your five time reality show loser. True? Yeah, so you guys, you didn't lose the last one. You just there's no winning and losing, there's just love. I lost. Yeah, what's been going on with you lately? Are you sucking at dating lately? Are you're pretty good at it? We does anyone want to be good at dating? That's a

weird thing. It's like, what are you really good at dating? Well, that's true, that's a good We should tell Dean that maybe you'd get better, really kill it in the dating scene. We don't want that. You're a player in that situation, right, Yeah, maybe if you're good at dating, you're married, and then you still date because you're still you're married and you still date. Is that how it works? I don't think that's how it works. Okay, I thank you. Just fall in love? And so what does it mean to not

sucker dating? We should have had this tuck with Dean. It means being respectful, being open, communicating. It means these things. Right, So you're saying the title of the show is Dean is not respectful, not good at community. That's kind of how it started because of Paradise. He wasn't a great communicator on Paradise and got some flak for that, some some and and and we've gotten a podcast out of it. Yeah.

But like sucking at dating, torn between you and Christina, Yeah, that's just weird to begin with because they're from your season, right, that's why it's weird to begin with. I'm not weird. It's like a weird thing to lose loose sleepover what that's so brutal? Is it? I? Mean they seem both like fine people who people? Yeah? Are you? Are you? What's what's your current situation? I'm dating? Are you in love? No? Okay, uh, I'm always in love. You know. I love all you guys.

Are you in a committed relationship? No? I don't think so. No, I'm just kidding. I'm not. You know, So you're I've been dating. I've dated some people more like No, not a lot of people I've dated. Well, what about Like, could I ask about rumors that I've heard about you? No? I can't. I can't bring those up. I can't ask about like a favorite month of the year or anything like that. I have friends friends, and you've dated, and

we can't talk about which go into which category? Yeah? Okay, alright, um, but yeah, you know those who can't teach kind of thing, you know. I don't know. I've been out there. You know, I've I've I've been dating. Um, what do you do on a first date? What do I do on it? Yeah? What do you have like a standard thing for a first date? Like when I was single, I like to take girls to baseball games? It depends, right, I mean I think I've come I wrote some article a long

time ago. I think the level of Typically, if I'm going on a date and I don't know much about the person, I like to keep it pretty um casual, um. But my level of interest in that person will reflect what I want to do on the date. And what I mean by that is if I really know nothing and when. But you mean by nothing other than the fact that I find this person attractive and I don't know, you know, I maybe had a short interaction with them.

I might suggest the typical coffee or drinks, right, I mean, but also it's like, um, I don't want It's like I don't know how much time I want to spend with you. And let's be honest, you don't know how much time you want to spend with me. So let's just have a cup of coffee. So there's an end of time. Yeah, uh, if there's an excitement, you know where I think either a I I've already had a

little bit of time. Maybe I've I've had a short conversation with him at a night out, or we have mutual friends, or I just I really hope I like this person, I hope like me. Then maybe I'll suggest dinner. But even then I try to keep it fairly casual.

I think I find it weird. Um when and when guys um try to overly oppress, oppress and end press a woman by like some fancy expensive date we're gonna take a helicopter or even just like a really fancy dinners just like, I don't know, you're trying too hard. Just keep it care right. The point is just to

meet each other that's impressed. I mean, I think it's about having conversations, communicating, you know, Uh, if you're going to have dinner, I like, you know kind of places that have some energy to it, you know, that have people around it. Maybe it's like a one of those restaurants slash places you get a drink, you know, because maybe you can do a little bit of both. You're gonna have some dinner and things are going well, you

close the bar down. That's nice. So there's an end time with extensions available if you want to give yourself some options, you want to you know, both to extend the night and cut it short. I mean, you know, dating is a it's a trial and error, right. I mean, I think the best sometimes the best part about dates is the fact that a lot of them don't go well, you know, it's kind of fun, you know, in the in the moment, it's kind of cringeworthy, but it makes

for a good story. What's been a bad date? Give us a good story about a bad date you've been on. Doesn't have to be recent, can be any time in your whole life. I don't know. I mean, I don't have like some like horrid first date, but sometimes it's, you know, the worst kind of date. I think you just go on and I think it's kind of like a job interviewing, right in a sense. But sometimes in job interviews you always hear how yeah, that first thirty

to sixty seconds. Usually they know whether they're interested in hiring hiring you now, And I think the sam goes for dating. I've never had a bad job interview. Does that mean I'm going to be good at dating? Right at this point? Right? I think if you're a good communicator and you're open with talking about yourself but not in a way that comes across is cocky or bragging, but just you're opening to have a conversation and kind of dive a little deeper, I think you know the

same thing that comes with interviews. I mean it is an interview, right. But I think sometimes those dates you sit down and you're just like, yeah, this isn't going anywhere. Well, either clicks or it doesn't. Right. The worst is when you think they might think, you know, I've gone on a I went on a date once where I was pretty sure we mutually just weren't feeling it. But maybe I wasn't feeling it and she sensed that, so whatever. But she went through the whole thing, right, She's like,

let's order apps her dinner, we got drinks. Then she later comes out, would you guys like to see the dessert? Minnor, She's like yes, she's really milking this. Um, And I was I wanted to be like we don't you know that one commercial where you know there there's those two people and it's just like, well, I had a nice time, I'll never see you again. They're like yeah, great, and like you wanted it to be like that. But um,

that's the worst. If you know this is not happening, but it seems like she's having a nice time, or vice versa. You pick up on one like she should not have kept ordering things. You would think she picked up you said yes, let's get dinner. I'm gonna let's get nice guys. If she wants the chocolate su face, I'm not going to, but they'll take forever to make. Yeah, the waiter comes out like we have a chocolate sup, I'll have that. Yeah. So, I mean it's a fun thing.

How did you get involved in the whole Bachelor world? Like where did the first idea come to you? Did somebody approach you kind of my friends sign me up? Yeah? I think that's kind of out there without you knowing about it. Or do they ask your permission to sign you up? Oh, they joked about signing me up, okay, whatever, and then next thing, the ABC's on the phone. The next thing you know, it's like eight months later. I think, yeah,

and now you I do have regrets from every day? No, I mean not really, It's been okay, it's been great. It's it's like life. I mean, every decision or in every risk that you take, there's good and some bad things that come from not necessarily bad, but things that you have to get through or struggle with or overcome maybe hopefully learn from. So going on around a TV

show is just a heightened version of life. Do you remember like when you had to call and tell your parents, Hey, by the way, I'm we're gonna be on the Bachelor. Your parents are they still in Walkershaw, Wisconsin. They are, So that's got to be an interesting phone call to make. UM. I don't really remember how My parents are great in the sense that for those who don't know, I have a lot of siblings, um, and so they just have better things to do than to worry about what what

bad decisions I'm making with my life. Yeah, but if my kids gonna be on television that's either exciting or horrifying, I would have an extreme rac There was a natural curiosity. You know. I've been lucky where my parents, for better or worse, have always been confident in my UM life decision skills. They maybe that wasn't a good decision, but I'm I think they think I'm a very thoughtful person in a way the pros and cons and good at asking people's advice around me and my circle of mentors

and friends. And if nothing else, whether they agreed with it or not, I think they just assumed and rightly so, that I thought it through. I wasn't um making just a decision on a whim. So you did put a lot of thought into this, because you make it sound like, oh, your friends three in there and then they called and you said, sure, it sounds like fun. Yeah. No, No,

I mean I've made a lot of decisions. I was working, and um a lot of those conversations I do with my My employer at the time was very very gracious and supportive and um, you know, if it weren't for them, I never would have done it. Are you still in the software industry? Done with that? I mean, for now, I am lucky enough to have a lot of great relationships. I still keep in contact with them, and just in case everything goes terribly wrong, Um, maybe maybe I'll at

that point, did you stop working like first round, Bathelorette? Second, I went right back to work after the first time, because like, no one even knew who you were yet, because it hadn't yet. Well it's interesting, you know, now I'm out here in Hollywood and being the cliche and and and and acting and you know, thankfully having some

success with that. But at the time, you know, it was I I decided to go on a reality TV show, and it was very um important to me to just be um mindful of what this experience was and when it wasn't, I didn't want to like be like, oh, I'm gonna be a reality TV guy and next thing, you know, I'm gonna be all over Hollywood. It's just like, now I'm gonna go do this thing. It's gonna be an interesting experience. I'm gonna go back to the job

I I know and love, and I did UM. And so as soon as I got done in filming, I literally went back to work like two days later, which was probably a terrible idea, UM because it didn't end great. So like, were you just miserable being back at work too? I mean, for those who get out of that experiens, it fries your brain a little bit, messes with you. Um. But it was also in some ways good for me

to just get back to normal. And so I just did that, and then you know, the rest is kind of, as they say, history, with UM me getting asked to go back on Caitlyn season because the producers kind of were found out about our pre existing kind of UM friendship if you will, and uh, they were once again supportive, but at that point I had to you know, they kind of gave me that UM open invite to come back. But um with the exception of making sure I was kind of done with all all all of this, as

they would call it, Hollywood stuff. And so when I got done filming, I just kind of took a beat and looked at my options. And at that point, you know, I was given a handful of opportunities that I decided to look into because I was lucky enough to be given the blessing, blessing from my employer to take some risks. You know, most people aren't lucky enough to to have such a great employer to say, hey, um go live it up, yolo, take some risks, see what happens, and

if you're follow in your face, you can always come back. UM. So since then, I obviously, you know, gone the Batch a couple more times or one of their shows, and I've been lucky enough to try new experiences and and meet a great network of people who have been supportive

and helpful. And um, I started getting into acting space a little shortly before I ever went on Paradise, and obviously that took a little bit of a break before um I did The Bachelor, and and ever since, Dancing the Stars is something that's pretty much what I've been focusing on so you know, I've done a couple of shows. I've Speechless Speeches but wasn't on Ion, but it was a Vivic a Fox, which okay, that's exciting. What's the episode of Speechless? I remember being like this, actually, like

I didn't know. You never know how reality start is going to be on TV. But you were good? It worked for you. I was. I was. I was playing a bad b roll actor, so kind of were you a teacher? My well, my character was an actor playing a teacher, but supposed supposed to not be good at playing a teacher. So I felt like I nailed that. So yeah, I mean it was very cool to perform

with Mini Driver, which was really neat. And I recently filmed an episode UM of Teachers, which is on TV Land, which is a really cool kind of uh comedy about some teachers from Chicago. UM, it's about it's four women named Katie. I'll developed a show. It's a really funny, kind of snarky, you know, modern day UM take on being a elementary teacher. I play a reporter. UM. There's been some really cool cameos on it, and so I felt very lucky to do that. Um, and uh, I

have some other stuff been working. I don't know if I'm able to share, so I won't. Um, so yeah, I mean, listen, it's it's been really cool. It's a very tough and hard industry. Have been working hard, you know. I have coaching and take classes and do a bunch of stuff to try to get better because it's incredibly hard and in something that you know, my platform on reality TV only helps me so much and in some ways it kind of hurts as well. So we'll see. Yeah,

there's a stingua attached to it. So um, you know, we'll see how it goes and be taking acting classes like you're serious about this next year. I've been taking acting classes for about two years now. I study every day. Um. I do other classes as well to help. There's a lot of things that go into it. It's a really hard thing. There's a reason why people say that how competitive it is. So you know, chances are off all

on my face and and fail. But you know what the hell, Well, you saw Black Panther I did, speaking of acting was really did you like it? I loved it? I loved it. I saw it opening Nate. Obviously a lot of hype. UM. For the most part, I felt like it lived up to it. Um. It was got so much hype, but I saw it yesterday that it did it. It lived up to as much as one could have me being so hyped up. I thought the action scenes or so, I mean, my my, what was so cool about is as the Black Panther. The action

sequences and the songs were so cool. I mean, like I was maybe some of the cooler action scenes of all the Marvel Marvel movies. I think the only downside is there weren't as many of them, like the Black Panther being the Black Panther. UM. That was one of the early only bad reviews is that he doesn't quote beat up enough bad guys. Yeah, or just like he's not being the Black Panther as much as you'd want to see. UM. But it was a lot of great performances.

I really liked UM. The women roles. UM. I don't know the names of the actors. UM is one of them. She She is the one that I know off the top of my head. They did a really good job. I mean it was kind of it's kind of like I wonder woman. UM. I think the industry now is maybe it's with the success of Wonder Woman, they're doing

a great job of having UM. To me, I thought, what what really made the movie and the charm of the movie is having these kind of strong female presence um that are very attractive yet very charming, and like they have these like Wonder Woman, she's very confident and strong and kicks ass, but she's also very demure, you know, And they have that kind of same sentiment in Black Panther, and I find that to be really charming part of

the movie. I mean, I've always been a very attractive too strong women and personalities, but like not overly aggressive, like these aren't like the the the the women characters, they're not like hard asses or or like off putting, but they're like they're they kick ass. They kind of own it, but it's not in a way that comes across as um like they're trying too hard kind of thing.

You know, there's obviously some in the movie, like the Black Panther I did a really good job because obviously you know, it's he has a black director, obviously a lot of um black UM performances, and so that was you know, people have talked about that and it was. They did a really cool job of like talking about pop culture, but not in a way that felt pushy, you know, so I thought it was really cool that way.

It was just very it was cool. I don't know, is this like a really neat movie and they they I felt like they did a good job of highlighting kind of like you know, racism and things like that without it making feel like that's what the movie was about. It's very inclusive, like I'm the whitest dude on planet Earth, but like I felt, because we have actually tested them, yes, yes there's evidence, but I felt very I felt like

this movie was for me just it's for everybody. It's a really uh it made everybody feel proud to just be a person, and it was really cool good way, but you kind of understood some of the points they were trying to make, but not in a way. But I think my favorite part of the movie were the female or the woman characters in the movie because I think they just like the black panther sister, his his love interest, and even the general I mean, I thought

that was really cool. They did a great job where it didn't feel like they were trying too hard to do it. And I just think I thought that it made the movie really charming. Angela Bastid, Letitia Right, and Tony Career who's also on The Walking Dead. Um, they really,

they really, they were all. It's destroying all the preconceived notions like Wonder Woman, Oh, no one's gonna want to watch a superhero movie with a woman in charge, and then it makes all the money and this one, no one wants to see a superhero movie with an all black calf with the women may destroying all of that. Maybe I don't, maybe I'm different that way. I just find it just makes the movie really charming. I don't I don't know what it is where it's just like

you mean. And again I think it's because they they do such a great job of it's it's not like

I think, So I don't know what it is. Maybe sometimes people think like, oh, if we have a woman lead who's like the the hero, she will play the like a role of I don't know, Like, what's really interesting is they still come across as feminine, and they still like they don't seem to cross the band, and they're still strong and powerful and leaders, and yet they're still women, you know, and they still have very demure qualities and I just find that attractive and it's not

like in a pushy way, so between woman and woman and a black panther. I thought those were like two movies who really uh did a great job of showcasing women, um in in a way that was very attractive and not in a way that would like, you know, even if like some like Massagyist people are like, oh, I don't like. I don't know how you don't like um some of those roles that the women played, Yeah, they

were really cool. Well, where she gets two emails. We do have someone coming in to talk to us about meditation and how it can help you in your relationship. Before we do that, we'll get to some of these emails. And the reason Eric is in here is because we caught some flag last week for not having a female voice.

A woman called an email to say do we need a female After just talking about it, she and her boyfriend have to say they decided to take a week and figure out their relationship while she went to Europe, and then while she was in Europe, he slept with another woman. He says, we were on a break. She says, no, we were not so yeah, so they complained. So the other woman said, how dare you not have a woman

way in on this? And I have to do again women's perspective is great, What does that have to do with a woman like well, because it was a Dean and Dean's buddy. If you flip the switch, like if you flip the role. I'm sure guys have I'm sure women have said I want to take a break in relationship and then maybe hooked up with the dude's it happens. Sure, But Dean and his Australian friend whose name is from Winter Games Courtney, Uh, they said that that he did

that he didn't cheat. I think uh. I think the important part of maybe that story is like wait, going back to Dean, Jeez, with the two women thing, it's just hard. I mean listen and then I've read some of these emails and we'll get into them. But like a lot of it, like people are so interested in trying to define or label something what it is or isn't.

I think the important part of of someone if you are in a relationship for however length of time and the other person suggests they want to break and the first thing you do is hook up with someone else. That should maybe tell you something about both the person you're with and the relationship that you have or don't have. And so whether it's cheating or not, it's probably not.

It's a break up not a break yeah, I mean like you can't like also, like you've heard that you can't have your cake and eat it too, you know. So if if that person, you know, I'm assuming the person who hooked up with someone else was the one who initiated the break, it's you know it, there is a breakup or a break. Well, if I recall she she did break up with him briefly but then said

you know what, no, let's not break up. Broke up with him the break but they said, you know what, let's just take I'm gonna go to Europe for this trip that I had planned. We're going to take a week to think about our relationship. So that's why he was but he saw an opening and he ran for it.

Is not great. I mean again, there's so many variables that go into these stories in terms of I would also probably if I was broken up with and then said like, oh hold on, I probably like no, f you, maybe he can get whatever I want maybe it was heartbroken. I mean the other element is she wants to continue this relate sationship, but he won't admit that he cheated. And my point was, it doesn't matter you know what he did. You don't need to be cheated. Yeah, that's

what she was saying. He won't admit it, and I don't want to move forward admitted, but he's saying, no, I didn't cheat it. And I can tell you right now that relationship is doing because if she's so obsessed with like labeling what he did, like, why does she want to do that to hold hold it over him? But she feels in her gut that she wants to make this work. I think labels just destroys it. Sounds like she's, in her gut wants to control the relationship. I mean, she wants to take a break, but not

break up. She wants to go to Europe and do her thing. Why does she Why does she need to go on a break? You know, why does she have to call it in? She's going to Europe, She's not to see him, So that's a break. That's just a break. Without taking a break, you don't have to call it anything, you know, like, why do you have to call in anything? I mean, and sometimes I'm not saying that this is where her motives, but it just seems like a weird

thing to do. I mean, sometimes people, and I'm not accusing this person of anything, but like sometimes it the person who maybe they want to take a break because maybe they want to do something. Maybe they's like, is it so hard to believe that? This girl is like, I'm gonna go to Europe and I have this relationship in this guy that maybe I want to date, but I'm not sure, So I'm gonna go in a break because I don't know who I'm gonna meet in Europe.

And then they go to Europe, they don't really mean anyone. Meanwhile, who got dumped goes to the bars, makes that with a hot chick, hooks up with someone and it's honest about it. And she's so like piste off because basically her plan backfired. I'm not saying that's what happened, but

it happens all the time in relationships. So I think sometimes we um we get I find that often in dating our relationships, we get mad at the other person we're dating for things that we're doing or we project our own insecurities and it's easier to get mad at other people who can be mad at ourselves. Um so. And I'm not saying what this what you know that that's what happened, but I mean, who cares whether it's

cheating you know him? You know, you move on or don't think Listen, Hey, yeah, he hooked up with someone else. So like, in the terms of that relationship, probably not a good thing. Doesn't make him a bad person. I mean, listen, he obviously didn't value that relationship enough to not hook up with someone else. Um And I think that should tell that that lady something um and she should probably

move on. You know, if she's so hell bent on saving that relationship, then she should probably own you know, the role she played. And if any relationship is gonna work, I think but you know, any relationship that is gonna work is going to have two people being willing to um not be right and compromise and given and own their own mistakes as opposed to forcing other person to own theirs. Um And if if that's what's going to happen, it probably won't work out. Well, I'm trying to find

the original email, but I'm coming up short. It just got real insightful. They're like, get ready people here. We got all right, Well, let's hear from Laurie. Then shall be. My boyfriend and I met on e Harmony. Had been together almost six years. I really enjoyed being with him. He makes me happy, but I've always had some questions with our relationship. I've wondered if I was settling due to my age. I'm thirty six, he's thirty five. He has some traits I don't really enjoy, but I tell myself,

nobody's perfect. I need to accept his flaws. We've had some monica and off again moments and separated for a few months. Last year. When we got back together, I felt that we were stronger than ever and even discussed marriage. We went on a romantic tropical vacation together where I thought he was going to propose. He didn't. The week after vacation, I discovered he had been on plenty of fish and actively talking to other women. He went on dates with at least two women. One of the dates

was five days after we returned from Paradise. After I found solid After I found solid proof this was occurring, I confronted him with it. He admitted he had been what he had been doing and took full of responsibility. Good for him. He claims that nothing physical ever happened with the other women. He's apologized numerous times and sotad that he made a mistake. Should I accept an apology and forgive him? Should I take this as a chance to venture off and see if there was something better

out there for me? You know, it's interesting, Um, I I co hosted with Ben, I've done this. I've never heard of plenty of Fish until I've done this show. It was talked about on that one too, So anyways, it's another day, ap Um, this seems to be a thing. It was kind of a similar email with the plenty of Fishes, Like the guy was caught on another dating app. Um, you know, listen, this is probably this is probably is

in a relationship. You you that's gonna work out? Um. You know it kind of reminds me of that that that movie He's not just not that into you? What a good movie? A reference. It's like the Bible. But yeah, continue, I mean you can usually like if you're again, if you're honest with yourself, you you can kind of I would like some of these, I'd be curious if they're on the phone, because I just a lot of these emails. I just want to ask them, Well, before I tell

you what I think, what do you think? You know? Yeah, because she's got deep down she's got to know this is not the guy for her. And I think because she is thirty six, she's she's trying to make this work.

And just think about dating apps And I don't have really a lot of experience with them, and I think they've become less hard to do, But it takes some dedication to fill out a profile, right, Like even like a Tinder one, you have to go through what pictures you want to right and and maybe at least a line bio. So what I'm saying is this isn't like no form of cheating is okay, right, but like we're all human. We bleed, and I suppose like if someone goes to the bar and gets drunk and hooks up,

it's not okay. But like there's you know that That's why when like people commit crimes, right, whether it's robbery or murder, people get harder punishments for premeditation, you know, for like to think of to plan things to go out of the way. That because every time in a moment when you're planning something, every time you're planning to do something, there's an opportunity to not do it. You know.

If you're making a plan for something, you can be like, well this requires me to do this, Well is it worth it? Do I want? You know, whatever it is, maybe it's a bad thing or a good thing. So for someone to go on a dating app and to like pick out his pictures and then like I should I put on my bile, I'm like, well, I like to travel, I'm a foodie, I'm funny, I like it when people make me laugh. I'm assuming that's what everyone's dating profile. If you're just looking for hook ups, don't

reach out, you know, looking for love. And so this dude not only is going on their dates, but he's premeditating, like trying to meet other women, and he's thinking of like how to impress other women, and so he's he's really thinking this through. Um, it's not just a mistakes like you caught me looking at the girls. But listen, what can I say? I'm a red blooded mail like this guy. This guy is really you know, going out of his way to to not are about this relationship.

And so you know, you know, so many variables going in these kind of emails, but also like you know a lot of just a note guys, and these emails you should require people to put their age in. Yeah, she is right, but like some of them don't. But she's she's thirty six, he's thirty five. There is no

excuse to you know, be figuring things out. I mean, I think after thirty you you should hopefully you like there's you're kind of in a certain in a certain way as mature as you're gonna be in a certain extent um, And so there's no excuse of like, you know, if you're twenty two, it's just like you're just figuring things out. This guy is thirty five, you're thirty six. He's probably been doing this for a while. Um, he's

looking for something. Yeah, I mean again, like it sucks, but like whatever it is, and it's not okay for him to do this, but like you're not giving him what he wants her needs, and truth truthfully, don't feel bad because probably no one else ken. Um, you know, it sounds like he's not giving her what she really wants. No, she listed out the beginning. Yeah, and so here's a metaphor for you. And because this is what guys, This

is what guys do. When guys are watching TV. They'll find a show they want, they'll turn it on, and then they'll minimize in the corner while they keep looking for something better to watch. Right, this is guys. This is how guys are and this is this is what he's doing to Laurie. He is modern day. This is not me. She's minimized in the corner while he's scrolling looking for somebody else that he might want a day.

And again, like you know, he's she's don't be someone's comfort zone like um talking about relationships, I mean there, yeah, I mean don't let don't let a guy have his kaking it too, you know, don't let the guy get the milk for free, so to speak. And and don't wait for a guy to find a better option before he moves on. She's scared to be back at square one at age thirty six, and I get that, but you deserve better, she will find. But it's the law

of diminishing return, you know or not. The no, it's the the gambling fallacy where it's just like, don't put bad money on bad money, you know, like eventually you just have to like cashing your chips. You know, because if you're it doesn't matter if you're fifty or thirty

six or twenty two. Um, if you're going to stay in a relationship just because you're afraid to be single, well, if you know deep down that it's not the relationship, you're only gonna waste more time because if you know, if you wait one more week, well you're a week older.

You know, it becomes harder and harder. But that's a week where you could have either met someone else or just got more comfortable with being alone and being self sufficient and getting a better place to meet the right person. You know. I think sometimes half the time I think it's hard enough to meet people is because we just might not be in the right place personally to to be open to meeting someone, um and um. You know,

and you also to think about it. If you want motivation, don't don't let the people you're dating give you more red flags for other people you're dating, because if you're just being honest, and when you date some one right and eventually, whether it's in a first date or fourth day,

you start talking about your past relationships. And if you're dating someone who admits that they have stayed with someone while they were on other dating apps for a long period time, you start wondering, like what that person's decision making skills. I mean, you don't necessarily judge them, but like it becomes maybe a little bit of a red flag of like why were you so willing to accommodate this person and how is that going to affect this relationship?

So you kind of have to I think hold you know, stop making excuses for people, um and um it sounds like it's great. Yeah, you should forgive them and then you should move on. Don't don't don't hold grudges. Don't. I think important part relationships is you know, you see it all the time, whether someone's cheated on or whatever. Don't let the things that happen to you in a relationship, you know, give you baggage or or give you, um, you know, put a bad taste in your mouth about

other Don't let it give you trust issues. And if it gets like whether something happens and it gives you trust issues, it's pretty much all on you. You You can decide to not let it bother you. I mean you can learn from it, can bother you. You You can become smarter from it, You can be more aware of the red flags that happened in relationship. You can have a shorter lease for like if you someone catches you in a dating app, you just immediately break up with them.

You know you you ask the way, you get better at asking the right questions. But don't just assume everyone's like that. And the more you start putting yourself in situations and the more you make exceptions for um, people like this and you know um, the more it becomes harder for people to trust in the next relationship because you're so willing to give um that person in relationship so much slack and they end up, you know, letting

you down. And so the more slack you give them and they're just keep letting you down, the harder is to trust the next person. So don't let that let that happen. So the advice is accept his apology, forgive him, and then move on and then learn from it the next time. And that's good advice. Caitlin needs some advice. He's twenty two, almost twenty three, graduated college in May, moved to roch after Minnesota to be an intern to the Mayo Clinic. My prog amends in August. My final

is to go back home to Denver. My ex and hour together for two years and he was supposed to move with me, but as we got closer and closer to moving day, I decided to be best for me to take a year and learned to be on my own. I lived at home through underground to save money and have never lived alone before. Six weeks before leaving, I told him I need time to grow, and I thought he needed to become more sure of himself and figure out what he wanted as well. Things were rocky. He

doesn't speak my love language, words of affirmation. He wasn't great at communicating with me, never took anything I said seriously, wasn't great at planning things or even just telling me he loved me, and didn't have a great attitude about life in general. It doesn't sound like a real great situation, but anyway, you always here going back to an exces like reading the same book twice, you already know how it ends. My question is do you think XS can

reconnect after time apart? Do you think he or guys in general can grow up and become more of a man. Help Caitlin, I like this email. Okay, yeah, what's your what have you ever had that gone back with an X? Sure? I mean my first my first love. We dated off and on for seven years MS light team. Okay, so just out of high school going in college. Listen, Caitlyn. She's almost twenty three. She sounds, you know, like a fairly self aware young woman. UM so, congratulations Caitlin. He

seemed to be ahead of the game. She's got a lot going on, she's trying to be self aware, but she's struggling with her decision. Um a lot of there's a lot of good information in here. I think she's trying to do the right thing. She's trying to be independent. She seems to have this guy in her life that

she she cares about. But again, like one of those things like if if under I wonder if Catlyn were to go back and read this email, you know, I think sometimes when you when you list things out and become more self aware of your own thoughts and intentions and feelings and so like, there's a whole paragraph on listing reasons why she doesn't think he's good for her. Um, you know, not the love language, which you know not just its seems like such a girly guy, but it's

a legitimate thing. And in terms of how people communicate, how they show affection, that could be learned. If that's we're the only issue, you know, I don't know. I like this this, how this ends? I guess what is the main point of her question is like can people change? Um? Sure, um, but only to a certain degree. And I find that people really only truly changed for themselves. They never really

change for other people. And I think so so often people make the mistake of um, you know, in a relationship, or they break up with someone and the like, you know, you just gotta you just don't do this for me and the guy or the girls, just like I'm so sorry, babe, you know, I'm I'm gonna do better, And they they mean, well, right, I think they probably believe that they're going to they have changed the gun to change, but they're really only doing it to to get what they want in that moment,

that is to get back with that person. But everyone always kind of goes back to who they are and kind of their habits to really truly change. You really have to do it for yourself. There has to be a greater reason why you're doing it, and you really have you know something, Usually you have to hit rock bottom and you and you have to do it, not to like you have to do it not for me

immediate return. If you're deciding to try to change because there's this specific thing that you want in the moment or in the short term, it only works because you get that thing, or if you don't get that thing, he's like, I didn't really want to do that anyways. You have to truly want to change for the greater good and just because you want to be a better person.

So and it also like it's interesting enough, like we you know, even when you're younger, getting you made sure I think about myself and dating like I like to think. And I think most people would agree that since my early twenties, I've probably grown up a lot. I've probably matured in a lot of ways. Um guys later, but it doesn't really matter. I guess My point is a saying, like we all we all change and grow as people.

Obviously I'm different in a lot of ways. Uh. In my thirties and nine my twenties I'm different a lot of ways, having you know, done the experiences that I've had. Obviously, I've had some unique relationships and in TV. But at the same time, we are who we are, you know.

It's it's weird to think about, but I would be willing to bet that if and I don't ever want this to happen, but if all the girls I ever dated for an extended period of time, whether it was like my relationships that I dated for like months or years, or women I maybe have dated for a couple of months, if you got him into a room and they all just started chatting, you know, whether it was my first girlfriend eighteen or or people who have recently dated, I'd

be willing to bet that there would be stories about you know, maybe there would be different stories, and some would be talked about how like I've done this, but like the preople of dating me later in life be like, well, you know, he's done this, and you would see some

change and some growth in me. But I would be also willing to bet that would be like one girl would be like, you know, you know, maybe it's kind of a good guy, but he would always do this right, and they would like describe my neurotic behaviors or obsessions or like bad habits or like whatever, and then other girls would be like, yeah, he totally did that. Oh my god, Nick would do that all the time. And I think that girls the same for all of us.

It's like sometimes we are who we are and and so you know, that's like it gives me because I was just thinking about this possibly of that happening. You know, like I guarantee every girl has ever dated me, there be like I bet they could list five things that with every girl, I probably did that eventually over time, probably drove them nuts or something. You know, we we just this is who we are as people, like at our core, and it's not a good or a bad thing.

You know, There's are just habits that we have or personality traits that we express, or insecurities that we never really overcome, and that usually in a relationship, those things tend to come out over time and they either are something you the other person loves you for or drives the nuts, and usually it's a little bit of both. But um, this guy is probably not going to change all that much. If there's this many things early on a relationship, this is generally who he is probably is Lum.

Language isn't gonna change. I mean, I think that's generally, uh my basic understanding of love languages. It's it's who we are at our core as people and how we just maybe as even as early as adolescence developed things that kind of um help us express emotion. And you're just not going to change that. And so take it for what it's worth. Is that someone who probably who Caitlin, someone early in your life that you were lucky enough to meet and he's probably a great guy, but he's

probably not for you, and that's okay. Don't be disappointed. Be thankful that maybe this person taught you a little bit about yourself and may hopefully you've had some positive impact in his life. And and maybe he'll be a friend,

but if not, he will be a fond memory. And um, you should probably just move on and don't waste a lot of time trying to change I'm hoping will change, because most likely you'll you'll be disappointed and if nothing else, sometimes it is timing, you know, let it go, you know, let them move on with the relationship. And if it is, you know, not to be that I believe it meant to be. But if he is going to change, it's not gonna be because of you, and if it's gonna

because of himself. So maybe he needs a change without you in his life. And if you guys somehow reconnect later in life, maybe that will happen. But it's just probably almost certainly not going to happen with you in his life, would be my guest. The key line, he didn't have a great attitude about life in general. That's the one. Like. I feel like Caitlin's got a great attitude about life and she's kind of killing it. She's

doing her thing. And this guy, Yeah, here's a quote I'm given a seacrest tomorrow that you might apply to this situation. No relationship is a waste of time because if they weren't what you wanted, it showed you what you needed. And I think Caitlin, that's perfect for you. And this guy, I don't think he's the right guy for you. That's so We're gonna have some guests on this show, and I'm gonna do my best to interview them.

Hopefully I'm as good as Dean. We're gonna have Suki and Elizabeth Nevigrats, who are authors of Just Sit, a meditation guy, book for people who know they should but don't. So you know, we're gonna talk about meditation, how might be able to help in life and and dating. Um sounds we're talking about a little bit about anxiety. I'm generally an anxious person, so I'm I'm pretty curious about what they can share, and I've I've been interested in meditation.

So so we have Suki Elizabeth, how you how your lady is doing today? Well? Thanks for thanks for joining us, Thanks, thank you for having it. So tell me tell me a little bit about you two. Are you sisters? Are your friends? Just just we are sister in law sister in laws? You know, that's that's pretty nice. It really

worked out right. You know you could have could have hated each other, but instead you became not only friends, I'm assuming, but business partners and you're helping changing people's lives. That's it's pretty good. Yeah, no, it's totally worked. So who's how? Who's who married? Who? Suki married? This is Elizabeth speaking, Thank you married my brother you and things are going well. Suki, you know, will be married to me five years in June. So that's amazing. Wow. Yeah, good.

It sounds like we won't have to ask the question if it don't if it doesn't work out, what you guys still be friends. I'm sure. I'm sure it's great. So you have a book, um called jes Set and it's about meditation. Why don't you Why don't you guys just kind of take the floor and and tell us

a little bit about it? Um. We wrote this book because we really both of us benefited personally enormously for meditation, and and everyone we know pretty much kept telling us how much they wanted to meditate, and then would just give us laundry list of excuses and reasons why not yet, not now? Maybe at some time, maybe when the kids

start school, that sort of thing. And so we um, we're looking at all what kept people from actually doing it, which is a lot and it's very similar kind of across the board, And so we thought, how can we help and how can we bring people to it um and make it a little more accessible, a little less mysterious and scary. And so that was kind of the hole just behind it. What are some of the common excuses you hear of why people don't meditate or struggle

with it. If they attempted not having the time you out And then we always tell people, well, you know, um, how much how how many minutes do you spend on Facebook? Um? Were you online stopping today? You know what? If you watch on Netflix, you have time, you know it to prioritize it and also not to think that you know all I have to sit forward twenty minutes, thirty minutes,

two hours in the beginning, keep it really small. If it's two minutes before you brush your cheese, five minutes before you you know, walk to the office or whatever it is, you can find sneak it in and sort of build on that momentum or do something like for someone who like thinks that they don't have a lot of time, like what would be the most basic way they could meditate? Are there different like levels of meditation? Could they if you, like, I have five minutes, Like,

how could they meditate? Well, I mean what I'd like to say to people is that if you're breathing, you're halfway there. Other part of it is paying attention to your breath. So five minutes is great. That's a huge amount of time if you have five minutes every day. Um, And because it's all of it sort of adds up, bumping forward towards the practice. Um, you will benefit. Interesting, Well, I'm assuming it's a skill, because let me describe. I've

tried meditating. I've done yoga at times and things like that. I'm generally an anxious person. And let me maybe describe to you what it's like for me to meditate. Where else i'll be if I'm sitting there, maybe it's in a yoga room or something and I haven't done a lot, or maybe maybe it's in my living room. You close your eyes. It's interesting, you said focusing your breath, and this is me meditating. It's like, all right, Nick, focusing

your breathing, all right, don't think about anything else. It's focusing in your breath, and it's just like, all right, shoot, I'm focusing about breathing. Is that okay? Um? Wait? Did I pay my bills? Um? Wait? What's I'm still? Am I breathing? As? Am I doing this right? Oh my god, I'm a failure of what am I doing with my life? Oh my god? I'm more anxious than I thought. But hate meditating. That that's that's me meditating. Um, that's pretty much how we all do it. That's that's um, that's

what we do. We think way too much, and it's way to chatter. Our minds just chatter away constantly. And so one of the things with meditation is it's the act of noticing all that chatter. And so then what do you do You notice and that's all. You don't run away with it, You don't let it hijack you. You don't you don't give into it. You notice it, and then you get back to your breath. And sometimes

you don't notice it right away. Sometimes you know it kind of runs away with itself, but then you notice it and you get back to your breath, and then two seconds later it might start up again and you notice it and you come back to your breath. And that is actually what meditation is. It's just act of noticing and letting it go without without putting anything on it. And he weighed on it, any judgment on it, um, and you'll really start noticing how you you operate. The

trick is not to judge yourself. Okay, well that's probably gonna start. I do that all the time. You're a total loser. Can't even that attach, can't even breathe right, it's like I've never breathed my nose in my life. Um, well, how can this help you know, just both in life and since you know this is a show about dating, how can it? How can it help people maybe in

their dating lives? Well, for starters, the better you can you can work on, the more and better you work on your relationship with yourself, you're way better off for your relationship for anybody else. And meditations great way to to kind of heal your relationship with yourself. Ah well, and also as we're paying attention to our thoughts and how as you said, treat yourself up. I'm a loser this business. You are not. It's not helpful for relationships.

So when you find yourself being kinder to yourself, then you can sort of be kinder to those around you expectly. Um the pre new dating? Interesting? How long? How long have you two been meditating? Um? Over ten years? Well? How do you how do you get started? You guys do it this together or something? Or you just you both started meditating and you're like, hey, wait, you meditate? How do too? We should? You know? How did that start?

Sukie actually brought me into it. She brought me I went on to retreat with her, but her, Yeah, I didn't want to go. I didn't want to go. Were you like me at first? Judging judging yourself, I thought it was gonna be so horrible and so boring, and so yeah, I was not at all looking forward. And we laughed for days. It wasn't crazy. It was really fun, which is not no one ever believed much fun it was, but it really was does your suki? Does your husband

meditate with you now? Or does he meditate on his own? He does? I mean, you know he it's a big proponent. Um. I mean, he actually was the one who sent me on my first meditation retreat. Why was he like, you're just like getting on his nerves, like you need to meditate. It was a bit of that, you know, but he did come with me, but he did he actually did it like you need help, you know, this might help you.

And my father had had had had passed to years prior and I was still sort of really struggling with that. And um, my father was originally told me to meditate when I was a young kid. Um, and I dropped like a hot potato when I went to start high school, and you know, um. And but when he passed, you know, going back to meditation, which was something that he taught me was a tremendous way of healing. Um and uh. And then you know, I was sort of so transformed

that I really wanted to share it with that. But I really want to go back again and I still want to go find myself, so I brought her on the journey. That's really cool, I mean, and good something. You have a great relationship because I mean every time I've tried to tell our girls she needs help, that doesn't usually go very well for me. So you seem to be a very you know, thoughtful, great person, Sukie. So congratulations to you. And even in the meditation seems

like it even went when even better. UM. So I get, you know, back to like, how can other than reading your book, which everyone should just do, called just set again? Um? Like, what are some of the like if they're if they're not going to go to a retreat um And unfortunately, let's say maybe they don't quite get your book yet, but like what if some of some of the people listening in what they're like, if they're naturally curious about meditation,

they've maybe talked about it. Oh, that sounds like a great idea. What's not like the first step they could do as soon as they get done listening to this podcast, um, which I hope they all do. What's the first thing to do today to meditate? But depending on the person, some people could literally just sit right now and focus on their breath at a timer for two minutes and just focus on their back ah and watch as their thoughts come in and let them go. Other people, it

might be more helpful to download an app. And there's a ton of apps, you know, different meditation apps that that help, especially when you when it's new, um and not say. And it's also just a helpful thing to return to every day. So um, I think it really depends on how you respond Tom, you know most things. But if you really can do it on your own, if you get a little help or their their crosses. There are of yoga studios now how meditation crosses, um,

so that might help. But there's a lot of ways you can meditate in the next ten minutes. So if you you know, in the next two minutes, if you want to nainly just shut down, close your arts and focus on your breath. Okay, is there is there a trick to like letting things go? I mean, and that's a serious question because I've never been good at that, you know, I I usually things marinate and then dwell and then recycle and then do it again and again

and again again again. But that's really that's really human. I mean, the mastic happens when you ask you allow yourself to observe it, so to detach some it is if you're you know, watching it, if you're it's happening to someone else that thought. Is there a trick to that?

I mean, you know it's just slowing down. Let me slow it down, and you can really start watching these thoughts and then it happens on its own, um because you know, unfortunately when you're when you're in it, that's you already hijacked, right, so it's hard to get out of it, you know, and pret you start observing your thoughts and start blowing everything down to go to see how you know they're they're not. Um, you have choice in the matter that they're not, Like you don't have

to identify with it. And so that's my thoughts because oh that's the thought. I could choose that thought, or I could choose this much more productive or happier thought or no thoughts or as do you ever have no thoughts? But that there's much more choice when you're when you're allowing yourself to slow down. And that's the heart. That's like the hard part in our culture, right, We're all like go go, go to that, you know, to do better.

I've got this done. And multitasking, you know, allow your stuff, the poditions, your permission to sort of you know, um do one thing most which is minis moment in meditation is watch your breath and connects BacT to breath. Very cool.

Imagine if if people just replaced um, reading their social media with meditating, I mean, you know, that would be our world would be so different, you know, great relationships, one can dream, just take a moment, not let not just sink deep in that black hole of the internet comments. Sorry I'm projecting here out loud. Well, hey, like, I mean that's that's really cool. I think this is really helpful. And again like for just speaking personally for me, I mean,

meditating is something I've tried. Um but and I'll admit to what you ladies pointed out, probably make more excuses than actually exists, so you know, I for one, I'm gonna, you know, keep trying, um, because you know that's all you can do is keep trying. So I really think appreciate your time. And just a reminder for those Their book is just sit a meditation guide book for people who know they should but don't, and that I think that describes all of us. So thank you, ladies, Suking

and Elizabeth. I really appreciate it. Um. I think you can really help people out. And thanks for joining us. Thanks so much. Keep meditating, will thanks? Ladies. Do you like okay, you sound like you're a kind of anxious person, Like no, like I have super intense anxiety and what you explain exactly. Sorry, I'm not just being like, hey, you suck, but I realized I do meditate when I'm having anxiety attacks. That's the only way to get out

of that. You focus on your breathing. That's how legitimately will die count No, on the opposite, like when every time I try to meditate it just goes horribly wrong. You just go it's like it's serious, it's like what it almost lounds like it makes it worse for you. What what did you say? You're an anxious person. How does that manifest itself? Like Eric has full blown panic attacks and real bad situations. I don't know if I get full blown pan attacks. I'm a functionally functioning, UM

anxious person. UM. I probably just make other people comfortable. When I'm super anxious. It's like, wow, what what do you doing? Um? I listen. I've always tried to be a reflective person, and I think sometimes I can get you into a rabbit hole. UM. I do have a bad habit of dwelling on things. UM. I repeat myself both in my head and to other people. UM, you know, and I think, yeah, and it's a and sometimes your

ego gets in the way. UM, so you just kind of really think about I'm I've never been described as a care free person. UM. You know, you know the person is just like, yeah, whatever happens, you know, let's just let's just see. I don't know in my brains, and like, I have a hundred possibilities of how this can go. You know, sixty five of them aren't good, you know, but I'm amazing went on reality television. It

was probably good for me. Um. It's interesting. I've been a much more of a risk taker and in my thirties, and I ever was in my twenties, which it's something I look back and when people ask me if I have regrets, if for no other reason, I think it's exciting. Like listen, I never when I grew up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and a very conservative household. And again I was a kid with the plan so to speak, and graduated from college and accounting. Um, I had a job, went

to work the next day after I graduated. You know, I thought I'd be married with kids and I was twenty five. I like had the plan so to speak. And obviously, as most people go, the plan usually doesn't work out. And I realized I'm probably like sometimes I think people maybe are you know, they have these personality traits that um or or weaknesses and shortcomings or insecurities that um define who they are, but maybe deep down

that's not who they are. You know. Um, because I've as I've been willing to take bigger risks, I realized I am maybe more of a risk taker than I realized. Um that it is what makes I think me happier. Um. You know, I think sometimes we go through life wanting to do things or wish you we can do things, um, but making excuses not to do things. And then sometimes I often found um, when we do it, we realized

why that wasn't really that hard. You know. Um. I always when I when I lived in Milwaukee, I never saw myself staying there, but I always I just stayed there. Um. And I you know, Chicago is very close to Milwaukee, and I always thought to myself, well, I'll just move to Chicago. I wanted, but even that, I just never did it. And then eventually I did, you know, I got a job. I just I was like, I'm gonna do this, and then I did. It was like, well,

that was really easy. It was literally now different than moving down the street from Milwaukee. It's just like a slightly longer drive. And then like I woke up one morning living in Milwaukee and the next day I was living in Chicago and that was it. I was like, why did that take six years? You know, right, I moved from Milwaukee to Los Angeles. Part of me still

can't believe I did that. In your mind, it seems like a big deal, but I'm thinking when you went back, but probably was just like moving r the next day. Not to downplay there's sure there's some struggles or whatever, but in life, you know if you're gonna if there's we we have these dreams or these risks, and sometimes we just get in our in our head and we think of all the reasons and fears of of why not to do them, and it just kind of Um. I've I've challenged myself to be that person who just

tries to be more carefully. It takes a conscious effort for me to do that. It's it doesn't come naturally. But when I I find that, when I I forced myself to do it, Um, I look back and and and and I'm glad I had I did. And it's not usually because things worked out the way I thought they would. I don't as almost never happened for me, But um, they usually along the way, things happened that didn't expect. Um. I've met people I didn't know I

would get to meet. I've I've experienced incredible things that you know, five ten years ago I never would imagined. Um, I've got to experience, and so I think I'm better for it. Um. That's not to say that I've had to sacrifice certain things. UM, But you know, do your parents show your TV appearances. Oh yeah, I'm at the point, you know, like i've if I do an interview, like,

I don't think too much of it. My parents, but like I saw you on SO and so, why don't you tell me, I'm like, I don't don't man, like I don't. I stopped watching my stuff. I didn't watch any of dancing with Like, I didn't see dancing that's live, so it's a little different. But you did in DVR

and watch it back. Um, I didn't. And your parents love that though, But that was Blue Carllar, Wisconsin people, salt of the earth people who, um, you know, they certainly never expected any of their kids to to do what I'm doing. Um, And I think they're happy. They're just happy for all their children as they are for me. But it is there's a level of excitement that comes with some of the did they enjoy being on TV

when you would like have hometown dates? And you know, they they're they're again, they're down to earth people where they don't get too over the top about things. And I think my parents, you know, hand hand old it appropriately where they really were in the moment and it was more about me and and their son and going through the experience than thinking about the TV show. Um, yeah, so I don't think that was the Neighbors and Walker

show must be. For them to like come to Dancing with the Stars and be in the audience, I think that was a different experience because there was no like personal thing attached to it. I mean, you know, on the show, like on The Bat Shred, it's like, I think my son might get engaged girls sounds tell you and said, I'm gonna try to support him. But you know, like so like the thought of the show is probably when they met like all your how many of yours

did they meet? Three four? They did it differently that season, right of your girls and maybe not Raymond and Vanessa. Moving on, This is from Anonymous, and you'll find out why. Two years ago I met a man that I felt an instant connection, too stronger than anything I've ever felt. I met him in person and literally felt the physical

pull to him, was instantly attracted to him. I never really believe in soulmates, but that experience made me second guess that our values, our beliefs, our sense of humor, and he's just an all around good, hard working, successful guy. These are the strongest feelings I've ever felt towards anyone by far. Here's the catch. He's one of my best friend's brother and he's married. This is something I would never act on. I'm a big believer in the sanctity

of marriage. I would never do anything to ruin a relationship. I love their family, and pursuing these feelings has never been an option. In fact, I feel guilty for even having these thoughts and feelings. My question is how do I apply this to dating? After having this feeling of connection, I feel myself comparing those feelings to everyone else every

other relationship I have, and nothing has come closed. I'm currently kind of dating someone and I like him, but the feelings don't come close to what I've now experienced for someone else's husband. I kind of added that in is this a waste of time? Should I keep trying to find someone who draws those same feelings? Although that seems impossible that anonymous that's a tough one. I mean, she seems like she and there's there's some missing information.

I'd love to talk to this person. I don't know how all they are. Doesn't sound like she they've um cross the line. I don't even know if for sure, if he is aware of this, This could be just an infatuation from a distance. Who knows. So there's a lot of unknowns here. Um, but I think if to try to maybe answer this is the best that I can. I don't know if it's right, but uh, you know again, I think we also have a habit of creating things in in our mind that aren't necessarily true, and we

all love what we can't have. Clearly, he's unavailable, or should be at least he's married. Um. If you want a good takeaway, try to, like re reverse engineer, Maybe you know what you like in this guy. Um, probably a lot of is and infatuation. But if you're trying to just break down what it is you like, you know the qualities that he seems to demonstrate, um, hopefully with his wife that you appreciate. Um. You know again,

sometimes we have a habit of glorifying. I mean, there's I've there's someone in my life who you want to get into detail. But you know that we we had a friendship that was maybe a little bit more, but it never really went anywhere. And you know, because of crazy things in our lives, we never got together you know, UM, and so you can call it a misconnection. And this is someone who had been very special to me and

and vice versa. But we never actually dated um and because one or both of you might have been UM and you know, and sometimes I think to myself about, you know, you know, what would have been like, UM, it's very easy for me to think that was the person if all things being equal, it would have worked out. But the truth is I don't really know, you know,

because we never actually dated in a relationship. And I just not to say that that person isn't great or maybe it could be an amazing relationship, but it's just very easy to glorify things in our head without really knowing um. You know, because sometimes those relationships you get to pick and choose the things you like, you get to conveniently um dismiss the things that you you wouldn't like or don't you're not even aware of, like how

you handle uh conflict. I mean again, that's that's usually the detriment of any relationship, right because it's you call the honeymoon phase. You like someone, you're hopefully physically attracted, you have some of the similar interest and often relationships don't work out because people don't communicate in a way during conflict, right, and so, um, this person has no idea how that how how to fight with this person or what they're like. They they they have a very

high level peripheral of this person. They've been able to pick and choose some of these attractive characteristics that this person probably has. So, you know, the forden fruit probably adds that, there's the forbidden fruit, there's this, So there's a lot of things going on. So I think my advice to to this this anonymous person is don't over

glorify the relationship. If you want to have a takeaway in your dating life is identify those characteristics that you find attractive in this person and try to find in another person. And that might take time. I don't know, you know, that might take five ten years, maybe it takes a week. But I wouldn't glorify this and certainly have it changed the perspective of you know, the one because he's not the one for you, because he wouldn't

be married. If you know that, you really want to believe in a world where that you um that fate exists and there's a one and only. But he decided to marry someone else, but that happens to be your sister's husband kind of a friend. I don't out like that's. Yeah, I'm not I'm not a big fan of that world. So and I'm guessing this anonymous anonymous person doesn't want to be either. So, um, do you believe in soulmates? Nick? No, that's just the most silliest. It's just ridiculous. I don't

know if it's not even an attractive trade. I've talked

about this before. I mean, what's more attractive to think that someone's just like made for you and that no matter what you do or don't do, any men even marries someone else, that they're supposed to be with that person and that's romantic, Or that there's a lot of people out there that you could be attracted to, and that because relationships are hard and difficult and challenging, that you have to consciously make an effort to say, this isn't easy, but I love you, and I choose to

make it work with you, and I choose to like make sacrifices, and I choose to give up other things, other people, other women, because I want to make this work. Over any other relationship that could work if I invested time in that one. To me, that's more romantic and

that's just the reality of things. But to assume that there's some predetermined thing, I mean, yeah, there's there's people who are you're connecting, you feel instinction with, you know, but there's a lot of people who who that can happen with, and things like timing, because yeah, that would just be in an assistant insane things happening for a reason that you guys ended up in the same room.

I'm not saying fate or soul mates, but I I believes an energy and I think if you're if you keep yourself open, you you can there are good situations and bad situations that you can find yourselves and and then you just kind of read signs. And I think as we get older and we mature and we gain perspective,

you get hopefully a better at at reading those situations. UM, and you know, things things tend to I always say, like, I don't believe things happen for a reason, but I do believe things have a way of working themselves out. And there's a huge difference between those two statements if

you really think about it. UM, you know, over time things will work themselves out if you're open to it, if you allow it to happen, if you stop obsessing over what how you want things to be and just be opening to what things are, UM, that will work themselves out and maybe not problem almost never in the moment that you want it, um, but eventually almost always you look back and think, okay, well that I have a different opinion of what I wanted or or who

I wanted to be with, um, etcetera, etcetera, and it just it tends to always work out. I mean, generally speaking, let's let's hope, all right, this is Katie, a guy from my past has come back into my life. We haven't talked to each other in five years, and he reached out last day but wanted to rekindle our friendship. We stopped talking because he and his friends really hurt me our senior year of high school, to the point

where I was depressed and suicidal. I stopped talking to him because he pretended like he was my friend, but he never really was. It hurt like hell to say goodbye, but I did just to clarify we were never more than friends. I really liked him, but we didn't want to ruin our friendship because I knew we didn't have the same feelings. Fast forward to now, since we have started talking again, we become more than friends, but less than lovers. I'm a virgin and refused to let him

put his name on that. I like that's a nice way of putting that. We've never been in this place before, though, so I'm still navigating the situation. He's initiated all of this, but it mostly happens when we're intoxicated. At the beginning, he even lied to me about still being together with his girlfriend. He's told me I make him nervous when I'm around. He doesn't like to hang out with me alone because he feels tempted to make a move after night's out. I've slept over at his place with him

in his bed. We fooled around, but nothing more. When we're together, we act like we are in a relationship. But I'm positive I would never want a relationship with him, and I'm pretty sure he feel the same way. We just like to have each other when we need each other. I love this kid, but know that because of what happened in high school, in his history of cheating on his girlfriends, that could never be in a relationship with him. Help. I just have no idea what his take is on

our relationship because it doesn't talk about stuff. Where do you think his head is with all of this? That's Katie, Katie, Katie, Katie's gonna be fine. Um, Katy sounds like a young woman who you know, probably knows more about what she wants since she realizes I think the important thing here is who gives us what he thinks about the relationship. I think think about what you want about relationship. It

sounds like you know is that you know? I mean, I don't know if kat is really being totally honest with herself because she's saying it, but I don't know if she believes it, like I'll never I never want a relationship with this guy. I think she really wants relationship with this guy. And that's okay. You should be

honest with yourself, honest with yourself about what it is. Um, because it sounds like when she removes herself from the kind of emotional side, it sounds like she can kind of point out whether this relationship is or isn't right for her, And it sounds like she knows that it's not. I mean, here's what this relationship is. And I know how I would describe it, and it would probably be how I describe a lot of these relationships and a lot of and everyone has it. This is this is

a sour Patch kid relationship. What I mean by that is um, so sour Patch kids. For I think we can all agree. And if you don't like sour Patch kids, you're just like my favorite. Our Patch kids are a delicious candy. They're they're amazing, right, we we all love sour Patch kids. And but like you know, when you have sour Patch kids, like even now I'm thinking about sour Patch Kids and my mouth is solving. You know, when you have a s it's like you just you

crave it and you go to the movies. You're like, do I want sour Patch kids? And you get so our Patch Kids and it's so good, or your friends haven't and you're eating sour Patch kids. But almost always we have sour Patch kids. We eat them, We indulge, we binge a little bit, and eventually it like rots the inside of her mouth. You know, that's too much sugar, and we way too much on an empty stomach, and we get like gut rot. It just doesn't make us

feel good. It's it's it's amazing. It tastes so good. It gives us a fix, but it's not sustainable. You know, we can't survive on sour Patch kids. And even though we'll like get the sour Patch kids and we'll do this and won't binge, and then we'll look get sick to our stomach, so we're like, you know, our mouth is deteriorated. You're like, I can't keep doing this. And then a few days go by and you'r you go to your friend's house and they have sour Patch kids

laying around. You're like, I'm gonna have some more power sour Patch kids. And you keep doing this over and over because like every time you forget, you're like reminded about how delicious the sour Patch kid is. But again, it never becomes sustainable. It never becomes the food that you can like nourish yourself on. And that's basically these relationships. Like everyone everyone has a sour Patch kid in their life.

Everyone has multiple sour Patch relationships. I think it's important to identify who the sour Patch kid in your life is. We probably have all been sour Patch kids as someone else. And I think the reason we find these people were we were just like, you know, maybe it's just infatuation. They do something for us. Maybe we like spending time

with them. We're willing to like accept maybe they cheat on someone like the story describes, you know, or they you know, you hang out with them, they give you this fix, but over time they do some damage to you.

You know, they make you feel that good about yourself, they bring up in securities, they're they're kind of being selfish, off doing their thing, they're not committing, and over time they do these things that, as anyone would agree, aren't sustainable, right, But we do that for whatever reason, we hang on

to these sour Patch kids over and over. Why because they're saking delicious and they're so good and in the moment they just like they they they serve this like instant gratification, And so I think it's just, yeah, this this person is a sour Patch kid, and um, and that's okay, and you'll probably keep pasting him because it's delicious and it feels good. Um did you come up with this? Because now I'm like, oh my god, that relationship was a Patch I was. I came up with

this recently. I was giving relationships advice to this someone I was dating recently. Um, I know they're they're younger sister who's not young, who's in our dirties. So don't feel bad. Um, like this happens to everyone. And you know, we were having a good time indulging in substance and and it was just like we were talking about this and it came up and like, you know what he is, He's a sour Patch kid. Uh, but it's true. I

mean that's uh, that's what we do. You know, we do it over and over and I think again, so don't beat yourself up because we all love Sour Patch kids. We just can't deny how good they are. And we know we're always going to go back and eat them. Um, but I go back and eat him within the same movie like half an hour, and I'm like, oh, I have so like if you want to keep it, I'm not saying get this guy out of your life, you know. And she you know this, This young lady is young.

So it's fine, and you're probably gonna have more Sour Patch kids in your life. It's just going to happen. But just be honest with yourself that he is. And don't pretend that you can have a healthy diet on sour patch kids because you can't. No one can. You know, they're delicious and they're fun and they're a good time, but eventually they'll rock you on your inside. Um, I think you've just changed my life. It's like wow, Yeah, so yeah, I don't know that that would uh, that

would be my advice. So yeah, Victoria, my name is Vicky. I'm from Philly. I'm in love with love. I just broke up with my boyfriend a few days ago and I have three options. We need help figuring out which direction I should go in. Here's some backstory to my

most recent relationship. We dated for close to one and a half years, and after my birthday last month I turned twenty seven, I started thinking about long term goals and made a decision to be a little selfish this year and take care of myself in all areas of my life. One of those decisions was to break off the relationship because he didn't believe in marriage and made it clear on multiple occasions he didn't want children. Ever.

Right now, I feel like I need to take some time to figure out who I am and enjoy my own company, and stay single. What do you think I should do? One, Get back out there and find the man of my dreams, even if it means another heartbreak, to stay single for the rest of the year, and curse all men. Three stay single until my ex changes his mind on things and realizes he wants to be with me forever. For none of the above, try my luck on the Bachelor, since in the last eleven years

none of the real world scenarios have worked out. Victoria, Let's let's just like just through these one by one. Uh. Again, there's a there's a theme with these emails, and I got to be certain that these people kind of know the answer, but maybe they're just curious what we think. Um, she loves love. That's an honest assessment of oneself. And

I think that's pretty common. Um. But I think when you have that realization that you love love, I mean, it's okay of love love, but don't love it so much that you search for things that aren't real love and then call it love. Um. You know again, it's it sounds like she's she knows what she wants. She wants to have a family and that's it sounds like a top priority for her, and that's nothing to dismiss.

So what number one? Get back out there and find the man of my dreams, even it means another heartbreak. I mean, it's funny that she's like, I just broke up with my boyfriend a few days ago, and I

have a few options. I'm assuming the options are these one through four and not like four guys who are pining for her affection, but one through four, Um, listen, she of course get back out there, but like this is not like, um, get back out there in the sense that like just go live, you know, and that kind of can you know one through three or just kind of do all of the above and one through three, like like what are you gonna do? Like don't go in nine dating apps and like start hitting on a

bunch of guys at bar. Just go be you know, be okay with being by yourself. Don't rush in the next relationship. But who knows, maybe the love of your life pops in your life tomorrow. I don't know, be open to it. Um, you know. I think it's how often people like define where they are get out of relationship to have heartbreak and they're like, I'm not doing anyone for whatever period of time, Like what does that

even mean? A week or six months or you? Like she even says like for the rest of the year, what does that mean? Like is there a middle ground? You know, it's also a long time, but like you can't control how long you're since she wants to know if she should get back out there today or listen. Um, definitely don't curse men. I mean, again, there are good people and bad people out there are and and and a bad person for you doesn't necessarily mean they're a

bad person. There might be a bad person for you. I mean, some people don't want to have kids and that just makes them not right for you. But at the point where you stay in a relationship and expect to change them, then it's not you. You know, you've got to stop blaming the people you're with for the things that you've decided to be okay with for a

period of time, even though you weren't really okay with him. Um, So when you start doing that and kind of sacrificing your priorities, that's kind of on you and not the people you're with. Um, stay single, Yeah, so stay single for the rest of the year. I mean, I think it's good to be alone. I think it's good to be comfortable with being alone. I think it's good to know what you really want and maybe reassess your priorities.

If you were in a relationship that you find yourself compromising the things that were most important to you, I think there's a it's important to decide why you were willing to do that. You know, maybe it's just lack of maturity. Maybe it is these prayers aren't as important to you as you maybe you thought you know, so I think reassess that at and then get back out there. Uh, stay single until my ex changes his mind. Realize yeah number three definitely, No, he's not going to change his

mind again. It's also entirely possible that he might be bored, call you up and be like, yeah, I want kids, and then realize he doesn't. Again, but that's probably gonna happen. And in fact, I guaranteed that's that's like a chance of that happening. Um, but he listen, and you know, my guest is not knowing about this relationship. There's a lot more going on here than he doesn't want kids. I mean, so whatever it is, he is who he is. Um, you're seven, I'm guessing maybe he's your age or older.

You know, this guy is who he is, none of the above. Try my look on the Bachelor. Well, it hasn't worked out for me, so you know, it's the Bachelor, Like it's an experience that people can find love. I don't know if it's for finding love though, you know, I like to believe it is as someone Okay, so I watched the show, Like as someone who watches the show, I have to believe at the end of the day, like they're going to stay together until they break up.

What the Bacheler is is a heightened version of the world. That's all it is. And so like the world, people

fall in love. You can fall in love and then like in the world, often relationships don't work out because they're hard, you know, and you, um, you don't you You go into relationship and it's escalated and it's moved forward quickly, and there's a lot about people you don't know, not necessarily bad or good, just compatibility wise, and um, it's it's a bigger risk that has you know, been great to work out for some and it's just you know, but it's interesting, Like, you know, I think about like

you all, we all have we have to own our choices, we have to be economofour choices. Um. I'm single today, UM, And a lot of has to do with the fact that I chose to go on The Bachelor four times and I'm not I don't blame the Bachelor, but it was a high risk situation that could have had some great payoff when it comes in my relationship life and ended up not, you know, And that was a risk

I chose to take. I don't sit there and you know, it's funny because like obviously with being own as someone who's gone the show and my dating life is something that people pay attention to, you know, like unfortunately that it comes with like um uh, some people see me as unlucky in love. Are things like I don't you know. But at the same time, I also don't I own the fact that I, for the past three to four years, UM, decided to take some pretty extreme risks when it comes

to my love life and it hasn't panned out. Now I own that. I don't sit there and be like what is wrong with me? Like I'm I'm pretty aware that I just took some risks. And I think in life we have to own that too, you know, we have to, like life's about choices and sacrifices and prioritize, prior prioritizing things. And sometimes we prioritize some things over another.

And sometimes we again, like a lot of these emails, we stay in relationships that when we list them out or write a letter to someone else asking advice, it seems pretty clear that these relationships aren't right for us. But for whatever reason, we choose to stay in these sour patch kid relationships, um, and thinking that that something that can sustain us and make us happy and and nurture and they don't and so um, yeah, I don't know. So so what's our advice. It's not one or two

or three or four. It's combined one and two, um, in the sense that just be just go out there, be open to you know, be comfortable with being single, reassess your relationship, reprioritize what you loved about the relationship, what you didn't want, and then just be open to meeting people. And that might happen tomorrow, and it might happen ten years from now, but hopefully when it does happen. It will be with the person that you will be lucky enough that it works out forever and whenever that

forever is well. Thank you Dean for letting me be here while you are taking Instagram photos. And um, I stole all his emails, so he's going to need more. Yeah, so people, come on, I I hopefully did a okay job answering these people's questions. So Dean is gonna need more emails to help you at least talk about your love life. Um, I suck at Dating at i heeart media dot com. Thank you Tsuki and Elizabeth Novigrats, authors have just sit um talked about meditation. Yeah. I think

I'm gonna try to meditate a little bit more. Um. I don't know if that will work out, but I'm gonna try, because you know what, eventually, I'll figure myself out. Thanks guys, it's been fun. Never again. Follow Help I Suck at Dating with Dean Anglert on I Heart Radio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.