Episode #16 - Unlocking The Power Of People With Tara Nesser

So wanted to bring you on the show cuz of your background with people management, developing people, um, recruitment and then kind of. Find your way and kind of either starting a business or, you know, starting a career or changing a career. So that's a lot of to, to digest. We don't have to get through it all, but those are just some of the, the, the things I was thinking about just based off of your, what you've done and your, and your career.

Um, so I did a lot of interviewing for places like Planned Parenthood for Y W C A I, I had a degree in psychology and a minor, a minor in women's studies. So I was hoping that my career would, would merge the two. However, life happened, uh, and with the recession and there not being a ton of jobs available, I took what was available to me, which started as a retail position at Club Monaco, making like 9 25 an hour.

And I was very proud of myself because I negotiated from nine 15 and felt like a real smart college. Um, um, How I lived on 9 25 an hour is beyond me. So I was eventually, I was able to get a job at the Chicago Tribune in sales. Uh, I was selling job postings and the newspaper and Orlando. Uh, so if you put all those three things together, there were no jobs. Orlando was a dying market, and the newspaper industry was also a dying market. So I spent most of my time just getting hung up on.

Um, and I had to make, you know, 80 calls a day and 75 of those were me getting hung up on. Um, but I was able to sort of, you know, uh, I was able to get a taste of, uh, career in sales. And from there I was, um, Introduced to Groupon. So that's where I met you. And as you know, Groupon was, uh, just all the rage in Chicago and, and really in, in the country. Um, and. I took my sales experience and applied it to this new startup world.

And when I was at Groupon, I really got a taste for the startup world. You know, everybody sort of being in it together, boots on the ground, building something from the ground up. And I became really addicted to that type of environment. And I spent the rest of my career in startups. So, uh, from Groupon, I went to another startup called Trunk Club. I was the 25th employee. And I was able to work at Trunk Club through so many various phases of growth.

Uh, we, we started as a small little team in a small little office, and by the time I left, we were over a thousand employees and had been acquired by Nordstrom. So I really got a taste for what it was like to work at work at this company at so many different various stages and see the growing pains within the stages. Um, And that, and also at, at, at, uh, trunk Club, I was able to transition from a sales role to a people role.

That's where I sort of started working in the talent development space. And I really, really loved the talent development space. It felt like I had sort of found home and I got to scratch this itch of, um, almost bringing back my psychology. My passion for psychology back into a sort of more corporate environment. So I was able to understand people and how they operate and how to unlock their talent, and I really liked that.

So I, I wanted to sort of expand my people experience, which is what led me to my next job, which was a startup that specialized in recruiting. thought it would be really interesting to learn a new component of the, of the talent journey. So I, I wanted to learn what that. Sort of first step in the life cycle of an employee was like, and learn how to become a recruiter, which is what I did.

And at that job I learned executive recruiting and then I also became their director of people operations or their head of people operations rather. And um, I was there during, I was there for a few years.

I was there through Covid and during Covid, you know, when the world was turned upside down and we were all at home, I was given the opportunity to have a lot of space to think, to reflect, and to really get really clear on what my values were and what relationship I wanted to have with work, sort of long term.

And, and through that time, I, I realized that I wanted to go off and, Uh, I wanted to go off on my own and I wanted to do the things that I was most passionate about, which is really unlocking the talent and potential in others. That led me to starting my own business, which is level up talent. That's what I do now. I've been doing it for almost three years. That's it.

I can see that from your perspective of, of working with people is what you wanted to do and you're kind of going back to your roots and you're taking kind of what your virtues are. You know, that's something I've been doing the last year or so myself, just kinda looking at what is it that, what are the virtues? What, you know, what excites you in the morning and, and what is, I think we all have look at work as you know. It. For some people that's all they, their personas.

All it is is work and, and you gotta be careful about that. I know when I had a startup company, my persona was this was this tech beer guy forever and. But then when the company was sold and everything, then it's like, you know, who am I? Like how does this, you know, what does this mean? What do I really wanna do? And, and so for me it's working with people and, and kind of beating out the field.

So I'm glad that you were able to figure that out during c o d. Like a lot of other people have kind of figured out whether it was something they wanted to do or they were maybe forced because of, you know, layoffs and everything.

And so when you're left, you know, I think what Covid did for a lot of us is it, it gave us this new space from work, which was really, really hard for a lot of people, but it did kind of make us wake up and go, what do I, what do I. Not just out of my work, but out of my life. And what role do I want work to play in my life?

And that was a really important question for me to answer, which sort of led me to being able to make the leap and start my own thing because I, I wanted work to play a different role in my life than it had previously.

Make a change in my career. Maybe it's something completely different, or I'm looking to, Hey, I'm more interested in starting my own thing. I've been kind of, you know, doing this side hustle, let's say for a while. And, and now it's, it's been kind of a hobby. I wanna make it, whatever that is. Uh, maybe it's something that you're making, you have your own apparel line for fun or something. Now you want to just go for it. So maybe you could kind of talk about that process.

They wanna figure out what, uh, what's next for them in their career, either to your point, they were forced to because they were laid off, or they wanna just, um, be really intentional about their next step. So when exploring to whether or not to do your own thing, Or to go work for another company. I think it really comes down to values. What do you value most and what are you optimizing for in your career and your life? So, and anything that you do.

One of the things I say to my clients is a lot is like, there's gonna be hard. So you have to choose your hard, which hard do you want? So if the thing that you value, Is if you value flexibility, if you value passion, if you value purpose, that might lead you to starting your own business. However, the hard that you're going to choose at the beginning is stability, right? That's what you're going to sacrifice. So does your desire for freedom, does your desire for passion?

Does your desire for purpose outweigh your desire for stability? If the answer is no, it's probably, uh, a good idea to think about prioritizing stability and finding something that allows for you to have more comforts in life. Either options, totally fine. It really just comes down to what's most important to you, knowing that there will be trade-offs, no, in whatever direction you head.

Cuz if you're, you know, it's like too much of anything like overindulging, you know, if you like chocolate like me, you know, one cookie could learn in, could turn into three. So, you know, you have to kind of just kind of figure out what works for you.

One of the things with that, I kind of wanna dive into as well is, you had a post on LinkedIn recently kind of talking about job hopping and, you know, for basically hiring managers to look at why they're job hopping because they could have came from a bad environment come in, a toxic environment. Maybe there's no room for growth in there. Place of work. Uh, there could be a lot of different reasons, so maybe you can kinda expand upon your thinking on that post.

Now that I'm on the other side working with candidates who are looking for jobs, it frustrates me even more because I have, I have sort of an inside window into why people leave jobs and people. A lot of the times leave jobs because of a failure on the company's part, not a failure on their own. Right? So they could have a really bad boss, they could have a toxic work environment. Maybe they don't have the resources they need to be successful.

Um, you know, maybe the company doesn't provide a lot of growth opportunities. And my perspective is that if a candidate leaves a job, even if it's under a year for one of those reasons, I think that should be applauded. I don't think that they should be judged or discriminated against because they made a choice to leave a job that wasn't the right fit for them. Under this, you know, sort of amount of time that somebody decided is the right amount of time to be in a job.

So I hear candidates a lot. I'll be working with a candidate and they'll be in a really bad work environment. And they'll say, well, I need to stick it out because I, I have to stay at least a year so I don't look like a job hopper on my resume. And that just feels really unfair and unfortunate that people have to stick out these and stick it out in these environments that aren't good for them because of some sort of arbitrary timeline that somebody decided was the right timeline to be in a job.

So my, my thought behind that post was that instead of just. Disqualifying a candidate. We should be curious, we should ask the right questions to understand why did a person leave the job and was it truly because of something, uh, you know, a performance issue on the candidate's part? Or was it a failure on the company's part? So my, my, my hope was that it would, um, get people to rethink the way that they. candidates from viewing their resume or their LinkedIn profile alone. And it did.

It actually got a lot of interesting conversation going and I think it, I think it sparked a lot of curiosity for people.

Um, I would say the industry for sure was more of a, a good old boys kind of club kind of mentality. Mentality and stuff. And, uh, technology wasn't as brace as much. And, uh, So the culture is a lot different. So I think that's also one thing to look at is some industries look at these things differently than others. Um, and you know, if you're a software engineer, uh, It's a very hot position to have because it's in such demand.

And if you worked at, you know, Google or something, or you were only there for six months, you're probably getting recruited by Microsoft and some other big companies that, you know, have interest in you. So I think that's kind of a c a, the caveat with with some of this, which I find is like, you know, again, each industry is a lot different, um, and kind of how they work.

So I think we need to embrace the way that people are experiencing work today versus how they were experiencing work, you know, maybe 10 years ago or, or beyond.

So there's this kind of, A little bit of a culture shock, and as things change, and I know as myself getting older and stuff too, I've, I've seen it too. And, and, and trying to, to learn how to adjust to different ways. So we all have different ways that we communicate with each other and, and so it's important to understand how each person communicates.

And we don't have time for feelings and, uh, We just need to get stuff done. And then the generation below them is really, really pushing the boundaries on how we think about, uh, our, the way that we bring empathy and compassion and balance into the workplace. And so I think millennial leaders are in a little bit of a tough position and that they have to sort of like appease the leaders above them. And they also have to lead to.

The people below them and the people below them are saying, that's not gonna work for me. I, I need empathy. I need balance. I need you to hear me. I need you to see me. I need equity. Um, and I think it's a, I think it's an interesting juxtaposition that those millennial leaders are in. And I also, I know that Jen Z gets like Gen Z. Yeah. Um, I know Gen Z gets like a lot of slack. I think what they're doing is awesome.

I think Gen Z is really pushing us to rethink our relationship with work, and I think we are gonna thank them 10 years from now.

There's a lot of different perspectives for people out there. But what I do like as a mental health advocate, I like how, mental health is getting more pushed into companies and tech companies are more of an early adopter for this type of, uh, concept, which is great. Often it's because they. They have the kind of cool, you know, shiny new thing that they're selling or, you know, the, the hot app of the week or something. So everyone's excited about it.

And, uh, typically they're, you know, well paying jobs and everything, and the company's doing, making lots of money. So, or, or they have tons of VC money. Um, but they're creating, they're trying to create a culture where there's, you know, Flexibility with, with time off, working from home, mental health days, volunteer days, and all those things are definitely important to me. And for some companies they don't, they don't offer those things.

And in other industries, once again, if you look at some of these other industries, so I'm hoping to see, you know, this concept of kind of wellbeing for yourself, including work, you know, the whole balance of work and life.

So in your experience in working with, I guess more, millennial, uh, demographic, have you dealt with any, maybe let's say they're, they're an employee, maybe they're even their manager, but maybe they wanna deal with mental health and they don't know how to talk to their bosses and it, they're scared because that's one of the challenges. If you have some type of mental health issue or maybe you're having a crisis, you.

Don't want to necessarily talk to management because, uh, you don't know what they're gonna gonna say, or, you know, you don't wanna necessarily talk to hr because HR is, they're really out there for the business. That's the number one focus for them typically is the the business. So, How do people talk? If they have some type of mental health issue and, you know, not be scared that it can reflect on their position, or, getting laid off or things like that. I.

Um, it is something, a lot of times it's something they don't even wanna admit to themselves, right? They think, I can just tough this out. I can tough this out. I can tough this out. Um, so the first thing I'll say is don't wait. Don't wait to talk to somebody internally, because if you wait too long, inevitably a breakdown will happen and what you will end up needing from your work.

Will be far bigger and more impactful than it would've been if you would've got the support you needed earlier on. So even though it's scary, my first recommendation is to not wait. So that's number one. The second thing is, um, to do your research. So every state has different laws on the types of, uh, support that they have to provide to employees. Understand kind of what your rights are. And have that, that knowledge in your back pocket at all times. Knowledge is power here.

The second thing to do research on is what are your company policies? So most companies, well, I don't know most, a lot of companies will have policies and, um, benefits surrounding mental health. So you wanna know what those things are before heading into the conversation. So step one, arm yourself with knowledge, understand. What your rights are. Number two is I do think you have to take check in on the safety of the organization.

So do you work in an environment that openly talks about mental health? Has your boss ever talked about mental health? Um, has there been vulnerability that's been expressed in leadership? All of those signals signal an environment of safety. Uh, If the answer is yes, an environment of safety, then I think you can go to your manager and feel comfortable in that. If you, if the answer is no and the culture does not reflect a safe environment, um, I do think that HR is your best route.

Now, I, I hear you on. Um, I hear you on HR leaders are there to protect the business, but man, we've seen tremendous strides in the world of HR where there are emerging people, leaders that truly do care about their people. I work with them every day. So I think that the, even the position of HR and organizations is starting to shift and it is becoming more of a protective resource for people. So, um, if you feel like your organization has made that shift, I would start with hr.

So once you know where you're going, either your manager or your hr, now we have to talk about like, okay, how do I actually have this conversation? And I would say the way that we have this conversation is really kind of a three step process. So one, uh, what's going on with you? You can be as detailed or as vague as you want, but high level, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm suffering from depression. I'm suffering from anxiety.

Uh, number two, what impact does that have on you and what impact does it have on the work? And number three, what is the specific support that you need from your organization? So those three things, um, that sort of framework for having the conversation will make it feel like a very, a very, uh, Practical and solution-oriented conversation around a topic that can feel really heavy and emotional for you.

So a lot of times when I'm working with clients, if I give them a, a practical framework that gets down to the facts, it takes a lot of that emotional burden off of them, and they can feel more confident going into the conversation. So that's what I, that's what I would say. So to, to recap, uh, do your research. Figure out the right person to talk to and, uh, go in with a plan for, to have the conversation that, uh, will make you feel, uh, really confident and empowered.

I do notice that in jobs that I've applied for, like even different sales jobs they might have, the Com app for example, that might be part of it, where you get a free access to that and that's a great app. I use that app. They try to think about some different things that'd be helpful for people.

Some of them tell you that, you know, we want you to take your time off to recharge your batteries I think that's all really important cuz people might be really passionate about their job, but they need time to, to recharge their batteries like everybody does. And so if they're in an environment that is supportive of you, then you'll continue on. And kind of continue on to this kind of supportive nature for let's say business leaders and, and culture.

There are a lot of organizations that are great at training. There's other organizations that are not good at training. They're they're employees for like onboarding. I know you have experience with with onboarding. What have you learned working in the past for different companies, doing training roles, going through training processes yourself from previous employers, and then now applying what you've learned, with your level up, consulting company in working with people.

Employee is ramping as quickly as possible so they can be productive fast. I've seen so many, I mean, I've worked for startups my whole career, so like, you know, I've definitely been in jobs where you start and on day two they're like, here's your computer, go figure it out. Um, and while, like what's really interesting about that is that companies think that they do that because it's more efficient. Like, oh, just start doing the job now. But what ends up happening is employee employees.

Have to scramble for so long to figure out how to put the pieces together of the organization and understanding who to talk to and how to integrate that. It actually ends up slowing down their ramp versus speeding up their ramp. So really we have to apply the like slow down to speed up method or mentality to thinking about how we onboard employees. So get it right on the front end so you can speed up on the back end.

And then how, and how it relates, um, how training, you know, uh, is thought about and the employee experience is really important. I think, people leave jobs for a couple of reasons, and one of those reasons is they feel like they're not growing. That's a huge reason that I hear when my clients come to me and they're like, I, I feel completely apathetic in this job. Most of the time they feel apathetic because they're not learning and they're not growing.

So if you wanna keep your employees really engaged, if you wanna keep them motivated, you wanna keep their spark alive, training and development is a great way to do that. Because it ignites a new, it ignites a new skillset. And when people get to, um, try on a new skillset, a new part of them comes to life that maybe has been dormant for a little while. So I think, um, training for retention is a really nice strategy.

Most of my career, I've done outside sales with companies that are not based, where I'm based. I like Groupon, Chicago, and there was one city search, which was like Yelp, before Yelp, and they're based in, in la And so you want to feel connected to, to your team. And I think it's great when you have some type of, Team atmosphere, you know, baked into the whole program with, with mentoring people along the way.

Um, and I think that really comes from the leadership and understanding they want employees to stay there for a long time. So now we've kind of talked about

So what you said about the executive team setting, the tone is exactly right. It is not what you say as, as an executive. It do so if you want, um, If you want to set the tone for a certain type of culture, you have to that culture day in and day out. And uh, one of the things that I think is interesting for executives is, um, Also realizing how much your words and actions matter. I'm not sure that every executive understands the weight of their words or understands the weight of their actions.

And so a lot of times we can see a lot of sort of flippant behavior or flippant words that really penetrate through an organization and cause damage because the executive doesn't totally understand their power. They don't understand how much, um, their role within the organization matters to people.

So I would say that that's, um, what I would think about as in terms of leading by example is really understanding the weight of your words and the weight of your actions and being really intentional about those words and about those actions. And that is a lot of the work that I do, uh, with leaders is helping them get intentional about how they show up. How they show up in the, in the workplace and it really in life, right?

Because leadership skills, um, really transfer to, to everything you do and every interaction you have. And I think intentionality and all of that is super important. In fact, when I started my business, um, You know, I did a lot of executive interviews, so I interviewed a lot of executives that I really respect, and I asked them, you know, if I were to create a leadership development company, what is the one thing that you think I should focus on?

And this leader who I really love and respect, it's like just one of the, I think one of the best leaders in Chicago, if not in the country, said to me, um, if you could teach anybody anything, It would be to be intentional in how you show up. You should show up every day wanting to be the best boss anybody has ever had that really stuck with me. Um, and so what I try to do is help leaders become the best boss, the best leader, the best version of themself that they ever have been.

it also kind of makes me think back when I was in college, I was really into leadership and I did basically a leadership focus and. One of the forms of leadership that I always liked was transformational leadership. And, you know, basically it's kind of what we've been talking about. It's, you know, you practice what you preach. You, you live by example, and your value is basically tied to helping other people out. You want us see others succeed.

So you're, maybe you're the person running the company and you have people. Who started the company in lower positions and then they kind of working their way up, but. If you train them over time, you empower them, you help foster them, then they're gonna wanna be there a lot longer.

And so it's this kind of this whole kind of cyclical thing where maybe it starts at the top, but it's, the people on the top are also listening to everyone from the middle to the bottom because it's just this whole cycle of knowledge. And if you don't have that, then you have these information silos where everyone's not really truly connected and they feel. You know, left out and everything.

They, there's a lot of, there's a lot of faith that everyone has each other's backs, and that is the, the best way to ensure that those silos don't. The stylists don't happen.

So the program was designed to address the very specific needs. Of emerging leaders that are stepping into new big shoes for the first time, and they need to gain the confidence to be successful, but they also need tools, right? So, um, I designed this program to give people really actionable, a really actionable toolkit so that when they leave, they can apply things on day one and be better leaders on day one. So the program really addresses, you know, four things, uh, intentionality.

Transitioning from a player to a coach, understanding how to balance compassion and accountability. Uh, learning how to manage through change and turbulence. um, dealing with human emotion. So those four topics are the four topics that I hear most often in coaching. They're the topics that I experienced from 15 years in the startup world, and, uh, they came up most often in a survey that I did of, of startup leaders. I think that's it. Very fun. It's a day, it's a boot camp. It's super fun.

The people are awesome. It is like not a stuffy training program. It is a dang good time.

And we are consumed by emotions that lead us to false narratives. And those false narratives lead us to bad decisions. So conscious shifting is a tool that we can use to go from, an emotional place in false narratives to conscious choice, and it's really effective and I love it.