¶ Intro / Opening
Literally 10 minutes before we had this interview broke, I was in a singular covered in soil. I was soiled of sorts. So don't be too hard on yourself. Don't give up. Keep going, don't over question what you're doing. Because you might be in a bad place today. Tomorrow, something amazing could happen. And I always get out of bed even if we've had got teenage kids. So it's challenging at the moment for someone like me with OCD and ADHD. But tomorrow is another day.
Welcome to successful with ADHD. I'm Brooke Shipman. Let's get started. Welcome back, Brock to the broken Brock show. Just kidding. Successful
I love No, I actually love that. The only reason I agreed to do it just so so broken brochure.
¶ Highlighting Brock's achievements in photography.
Yes, for those of you who don't know, this is successful with ADHD. And Brock and I have tried to do this about five or six times, including today. And every time something happens, there's a distraction, we get distracted, and we just have so much to talk about. So hopefully we can be really clear and concise for you guys today. So you can get the value of what Brock brings. Rock is very successful, but also humble. And he has exhibited his photography all around the
world. He has a freckle exhibit a beard exhibit, and get this his stuff along with others who's going to add have been in space. So when we book our ticket to Mars, you'll see his exhibit out there as well. So welcome, Brock.
Good morning, Bruce. Lovely to see you, um, those marvelous teeth yet.
¶ Brock's ADHD diagnosis and its impact on his life and career.
So believe it or not, Brock has ADHD. And he has been very successful. So I want to hear about your journey. You have a very interesting one. And it still gets interesting every day. So tell me about what finally convinced you to get an ADHD diagnosis.
That is a very good question. Brooke. My youngest child olive, at six months old, I just we were literally connected at the hip from birth. Not literally obviously. And I kind of knew that olives had a similar personality if you want to character as myself, even at six months, elke was very chilled. Fast forward to school, she was in year two and coming home from school, panic stricken. So we sort of looked into getting
olive assessed. I then had an exhibition for CMN called heard you see me now, the Oxo wharf Gallery, and someone approached me who had a heavily autistic son called Sam to do a exhibition on spectrum. So I got in touch with the National Autism Society spent two months photographing a couple of people to, you know, learn about it. And then I had, I was very fortunate to have a lunch with Professor Simon Baron Cohen, who is Ali J, or Baratz, older
brother, in real life. He's at Cambridge, and he is like the, he's top of the trick. He is like, god of the spectrum in the UK. Hopefully, I'm gonna offend anybody by saying that. So at the three hour q&a With with Simon and Charlotte, his sort of right hand help. By the end of the this three hour lunch, I kinda was like, Oliver and I are definitely on the spectrum somewhere. So we went down that journey. I'm timing there, so it was actually quite brief.
For those of you again, just going back, we can get off tangent. So we are going to be very strict here with our time and intentional so I've got stopwatch track, timed it. Okay, so you saw that olive exhibited symptoms that were similar to yours. And that convinced you to get the diagnosis, which is very similar to many adults who get diagnosed with ADHD later in life.
I was 49 I was 49 when I was diagnosed. Wow. And whilst I'm quickly thinking about that, I'm currently doing an eight week through the NHS who are incredible, like, big up to the NHS. I'm doing an eight week group session. With nine of the people who were all diagnosed later in life, so we like this ragtag, well, like The Expendables, you know, I'd be Jason, because he bald, you know, and on the face of it, you just wouldn't think we'd get on. But we're like this with Earth,
Wind and Fire. We're actually going to carry on the sessions post when it completes. But it's brilliant.
Yeah, so you all are very motivated.
Oh, it's amazing. I literally slightly, so I'm going to Mass her for your mind.
A mastermind, you mean, Master for your minds. So I think it's wonderful when someone first gets diagnosed with ADHD that they do get to some sort of support group, whether it be a mastermind, or people who were diagnosed around the same time as you or you know, whatever similarities you want just to gain that awareness of how your brain works before you decide, hey, this is the avenue that I want to go, do I want to get coached? Do I want medication? Do I want to do
this? Finding that support? So you found that with people just like you have a late diagnosis. And now because I'm sure you've shared intimate details about your past your current life? You want to stay friends with them? And I think that's wonderful that you all have each other to support each other.
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, I was slightly out, I'll be honest, I was quite desperate. I went on medication. I was diagnosed last spring 2022. Oliver was diagnosed a few months later, I was then, you know, it's quite stringent tests with the medication, I was then put on medication, it worked really well. And then we went to Australia at the end of the year to visit Sarah's parents. Were there for a while. So I had like
a block of medication. Because obviously, I'll lose it and can't find it, you know, classic ADHD. And I don't know if it was a bad batch. But early, sort of February, March of this year, I was spiraling, spinning, like really, really bad. And it's quite a convoluted process because it can put you into cardiac arrest. You can't just you know, the GP won't just write your prescription. So it's a laborious process, obviously,
because for health reasons. And I'd only say now that it's starting to plateau again.
¶ Brock's strategies to manage ADHD symptoms with medication.
So how did you then figure out how to calm the symptoms with medication after those two years of it spiraling?
¶ Genetic aspects of ADHD within Brock's family.
I think because Olive is kind of going through the same journey as myself, which is, which is good for both of us. And I'm actually getting elke my nearly 14 year old daughter assess for ADHD because I think it's very genetic. Yeah, I mean, I've given them all my my good things, you know, the good things from me. Luckily, they've gotten the mums hair. But yeah, I mean, they're, they're obviously aware of it. And I think the medications very
good. And when it kicks in, I'm like, you know, in hyperdrive, it's a bit like sort of Buck Rogers or something like that hyper focus, but I do, I do find that when I come up on the medication, there's a window of about 10 or 15 minutes, about 90 minutes in where I'm just irritable. You know, I'm like, bear with a sore head, as we
would say, Yeah. And it's just, I can't you know, it's, it's, it's mind changing drugs, so I can't, you know, I'm trying to be aware that I'm just being very cantankerous, so I'll just sort of go off and cry 10 minutes and come back. And I'm, you know, fab dad.
¶ Brock's decision to join a support group.
So what made you decide now to go and be a part of a support group a year later?
I think because I had, we moved house in December, which I think anyone with ADHD, you know, you sort of start packing and then you find something and then, you know, four hours later. So, I was really, I flew Sarah was in New York on a shoot with some celebrity, and I had my two children. It was mid to late November in England. So you can imagine the weather was file. I had a full house department studio, everything and I was really, really bad flu. I was
really sick. And then we moved, did a bit of work to the house, change all the locks, went to Australia came back dispatch medication, then started filming this TV to to the BBC, which was, was really enjoyable, but pretty full on. And then when when all that finished the meds were just, you know, by that point, not doing what they should and it was. So. So yeah, so when this therapy, not therapy, this that it's not therapy, this sort of group came up I thought, what? Give it a
go? And it's been amazing.
And how did you find it? So for people who live in the UK, I know NHS isn't always easy to acquire my know, there's a very long wait list. So how did you find this group for people who are in your situation?
I do something with the three boroughs. So which sounds like it's some sort of Martin Scorsese film, but it's not it's just three areas that the council we're in Lewisham and the NHS have been. I've got to say they've been
excellent. Throughout the done things as quickly as the cured with pandemic, obviously, they just sent me an email, they said, Look, Brock, we're doing doing this group, it's not therapy, we're going to basically explain so every week, it's, you know, it's memory, it's, you know, being impulsive or whatever. So we're sort of learning why we are the way we
are. And I think one thing we've all realized is that we're all I mean, if you put us up against the wall, like, you know, the usual suspects, we all look like completely different. But when we all start talking, it's a presume it would be similar to being like a Vietnam vet or something like that, that have gone through something.
Wow. That's a very big statement to say. Yeah,
yeah. Because it's, I mean, I joke to you, I sent you that message on Instagram saying, I'm going to ADHD A. And you're like, What the hell's that? And I said, it's, it's ADHD anonymous. It's just me trying to make light of a very, very complex situation.
But how do you and I completely agree, ADHD is complex, but you compare it to being in a group of Viet Nam. That's so going through war. Tell me about what gave you that analogy.
And I love an analogy, Brooke. I just think that for my entire life, I have battled you know, I've done that wrong. I was a spirited child, Brock is easily you know, distracted in class, if Brock spent as much time in his studies, as he does his entertaining the class, he could be, you know, MIT or whatever. I mean, it was just literally, I mean, I did okay, at school. It wasn't that but what I want, you know, I mean, I enjoy learning
stuff. But School doesn't teach you to about life, it doesn't teach you to be an adult, a parent to be gay. You know how to save money, anything, doesn't give you any skills, other than you're gonna be learn how
¶ The importance of life skills that are often missing in school curriculums.
to do math, learn how to do English, or don't know, you're 100% about like, I was a special education teacher. And we did implement life skills to these kids, because they had some of that on their individualized education program. But the general education students who didn't have special needs wouldn't get those life skills. And it was really sad because I didn't learn how to write a check until I was in my 20s. You know, do laundry. I didn't know how to do that until I was in college. So
¶ OCD and its impact on daily tasks.
I could do all that. Because I've got OCD as well, Brooke, I'm, I mean, I do all the housework. I did the garden when I'm allowed to go shopping. I mean, this is classic ADHD, because my wife Sarah is jumping on the wagon, the ADHD wagon and trying to learn as much about why I'm so irritating after nearly 20 years of marriage. And one of the classic things that I do is I love doing the grocery shop. I've always done it. I like going right. We like cooking, but I will go to get oatmeal.
But because I know that we're running out of cereal or yogurt, yogurt, Potato Potato. Nobody says potato. Yeah, so I'll come back
with more Then you went for a full
shot, but not what I went for
the same and my husband, you always have to have a cart.
Not always sometimes I just have five baskets. Because I forgot, because I forgot to take a pound coin with
no, seriously, fair, all ADHD ears listening out there, don't fool yourself, you can now go into a grocery store and get one or two things. Grab the cart, because you are going to have a pile up above your head. And you're gonna be looking for a card afterwards. So I constantly make that mistake myself too.
So I go I go to Sainsbury's to get oat milk. And Sarah calls me and says, Don't go there for your dopamine fix. That was harsh.
¶ Brock's relationship with his wife and their neurodiverse relationship.
Yeah, you can get such a dopamine fix by seeing all these shiny, bright, new things. But I am curious what so first of all, it sounds like Sarah is pretty supportive if she's learning about how your brain works, but you made a joke about how you're irritating. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. So is that really how you see yourself with a neurotypical wife?
¶ Brock highlights moments of peace amidst the constant internal battle.
Oh, the the jury's still out for that. I think just being I mean, I struggle being with myself, Brooke. You know, the only time that I am at peace is when I'm grading images, photographing people listening to music, exercising, or gardening. That's it, or cooking, or doing the shopping. Everything else, I am constantly at battle with myself. So big throw OCD into the mix, Brooke and then you've got this, you know, I'm not typical ADHD, I'm
tidy. If there isn't form, you know, in structure, I lose it.
So like the battle piece, the feeling like you guys have all just been through war. What is it like for you now that you have gone through a support group? Do you feel like that has lessened any of the feelings of irritation or feeling like you've gone through? Well, where are you at right now?
I'll be perfectly honest, I'm quite glad that the the episode we did was longer than war and peace. But when that was meant to go out, I was dealing with my medication. So doing this group, it's it's literally, it's like, I recharge my batteries. I go somewhere that I'm completely not judged. We're all different ages, you know, this trans is you know, non binary. There's, I mean, there's it's a real mixed bag of people, which I love all different ages. But we all have
this common thread broken. I think we you know, first we ever mums. I'm very chatty, as you well know. Few people were guarded. But I think when everyone realized it was a safe place.
So you feel like you are with your people. You're not being judged. And then you're also creating this awareness with your people. Is that correct?
Yes. I just think that for the best part of that half a century I've battled with. Am I doing the right thing? Society says I should do this media says do this. And people don't understand me. One thing that I've really learned from doing this, I mean, we've done five weeks now is that we have had a lifetime of being told that what we're doing is incorrect. Because we're not conforming to what society says is right and wrong. We just do it in a slightly different way.
So it's like driving to get the groceries, but we just take a different route. We still get to the same destination. But society frowns upon things because you're not fitting into the rat race, if you want to call it that. And everybody in that group has a skill. They're all interesting. You know, I absolutely love that group to bits. I mean, it really is enjoyable. And we like like I said, we like this ragtag bunch of misfit. We're all the same.
Yeah. I love how you were saying we all get
¶ An ADHD mantra to follow.
to the place and the destination that we need to it's just not linear. We don't think linearly. You think In different tangents, and that's okay. We get to the place that we need to get whenever we get there.
Yeah, I mean, my one of my mantras is slow and steady wins the race, which I kind of learned from my dad, who was definitely ADHD, but was wasn't diagnosed. You've,
you've done so many things that you should feel so proud of, you have not followed the rules, you have not followed what your teachers told you you should be doing, or that you weren't enough, they might be ingrained in some of your thoughts and memories, but you have chose your own path.
Let me just dive in. So I left school, and I left at 16 because I wanted to go to art college. The minute I was at art college, it was like, everything made sense. And I was on eight cylinders. So it's just, you know, cracking up, and you tried everything. And then second year, specialized in whatever and I did photography, and my, the head of course guy called Morris woods, so I went school. Then I went to art
¶ Brock's educational journey, his passion for photography, and the pivotal moments that shaped his career.
college for two years, two years, okay. And I tried everything, graphics, fashion, photography, everything. But I was I was good at illustration. But my, you know, flashbulb moment, I think, as we said before, was I wanted to be a photographer. But he felt because then I went on to university. Okay, so that was like a step before unit. He said, Look, you've got the skills to do illustration, but my heart was like, I want to be
a photographer. I was just getting all my dopamine, you know, got all of the buzz that I needed, that my brain wasn't giving me as a 16 to 18 year old, I was getting from photography, it was like a drug to me. So he him saying, Why have you applied to be a photographer to do photography? You should be doing this. So I was then going to university. And that's David, David Lloyd, and truly balanced time. They champion to me, we just got on. I mean, I'm still really good friends with David.
¶ The power of positive reinforcement for individuals with ADHD.
Yeah, it's amazing how we ADHD years can really harness our abilities with just the littlest encouragement because,
because that's something we never usually get. It's usually criticism.
Exactly. Dr. Halliwell talks about rejection sensitive dysphoria, right? I know, that's a hot term, right? And we all know and experience it. But at the other end of the spectrum is the euphoria that we get from that positive reinforcement. And that allows us to just keep going and persisting.
Brooke, if someone says, I mean, I think that's probably why I struggle with any kind of compliment. Because I was just always getting criticized because I hadn't done that right, or I hadn't, hadn't driven to the supermarket the right way. But when I went to university, David Lloyd, he just saw something he believed
in you. Yeah. Wonderful. So for the people who are listening, what would you give, like your number one success tip for you to get to where you are right now. I know you wouldn't call yourself successful, but I see you as successful. Or full fu ll right.
I'm full of something my wife would tell me. We won't swear we will go
there. We will go there. Yeah. So what would you say to people listening out there? If they're going through their journey?
¶ Impostor syndrome and the importance of perseverance.
I mean, even now. I am. I've really had a bad year, because of lots of different thing. I've got this BBC One show coming out next month. And I know that, you know, the stars will align and everything will go back on track. But I'll be perfectly honest, there isn't a week goes by where I don't second guess myself. I don't think you know, you know, was it called was the symptoms you think you just pretending? You know, it's fake impostor syndrome? Yes. Thank you. So, not a week will go by
at the age of 50. Where I don't think I'm just pretending to do this. And then today, I'm helping our neighbor Helen, Helen Wong, who's lovely. He's got massive back garden. It's all overgrown, and I've I love gardening. So I'm doing that because it's mentally resetting the clock. So I'm spending two weeks doing that for him. Uh, and then the show comes out and Brock's back sight Jack's back
off. Well and great. But I think people are always with ADHC we've got no self confidence, because this society, we don't do things the right way. So you're permanently like this in your head going, Oh, I can't do that I can't yet. And obviously, organizing things and because we don't do things that way, doesn't mean we can't go in that direction and still end up at Kmart or wherever. I still second guess myself, I still doubt myself. But if you stop, my father used to say, quitters
never win. Winners never quit. And I it's one of my one of my things. You know, I worry, I, you know, I look at other people's photography, and got so much better than me.
And I have at your level. Oh, god.
Yeah. I mean, I permanently see stuff going. And that's another thing, kids, you know, ADHD is tend to have creative skills. And we've all got a skill. And that's one thing I've mentioned before. If you think you don't have a skill set, or you haven't accomplished anything yet, you just haven't found your skill set yet, but you will do. I found I was lucky that I found my I was 14, when I realized it's what I wanted to do. But you will have a skill
set. It's just finding it if you haven't if you feeling cloudy, but you can't give up. You just got to keep chipping away. I mean, that's what I would say.
And being so honest and vulnerable, like you might not cure the symptoms of ADHD of the overthinking of the comparison. But having that awareness having other people that you can lean on now who are like you I'm sure has catapulted your feeling of self worth and you sharing that everyone has a
skill set is so true, right? We don't need to do what everyone else thinks that we should be doing what our parents are doing what, you know, our friends tell us we should do our social media, like you will figure it out. Figure out your strengths.
I think I think that is one thing. I mean, I know that social media is very beneficial for both for what we do. Yeah. So I think literally 10 minutes before we had this interview group, I was in a singular, covered in garden and walked in aching thinking. So you know, just because I've got my you know, my the brocklebank Foundation met, you know, my my merch on how half an hour ago, I was covered in soil. I was soiled of sorts. So don't be too hard on yourself. Don't give up.
Keep going. Don't over question what you're doing. Because you might be in a bad place today. Tomorrow, something amazing could happen. And I always get out of bed, even if we've had, you know, got teenage kids. So it's challenging at the moment for someone like me with a OCD and ADHD. But tomorrow is another day. And if you wake up, I always get up. optimistic. Never never get out of bed and think, you know, you might have financial worries me, me and money are just we've never been
bedfellows. So tomorrow's another day, don't give up. You all have a skill set, you might just not. And if you're in a job that you're literally doing just to pay the bills, but you want to do something else, you know life is short. And you know if I drop dead tomorrow, I have done what I love for a job my entire life. So you might not have lots of money or whatever. But you know how many people can say they do what they love every day apart from you.
Yeah, so for people who want to reach out to you, Brock, where can they find you?
I'll be around at Helens doing her garden the next to on Instagram. I am Mr. l bank. So it's Mr. Elba and it's Mr. l bank.com. For the website but I'm doing a Go Fund Me to build a garden studio. Okay, and I'm gonna build it myself. I've spoken to the camera company modular set. I've got this thing, but I need to. To do that.
Thank you Brock again for being here today. Thanks for listening to this episode of successful with ADHD. I hope it helps you on your journey. And if you need any additional support for you or a loved one with ADHD, feel free to reach out to us at coaching with brooke.com and all social media platforms at coaching with Brooke and remember, it's Brooke with any Thanks again for listening. See you next time.