Episode 69: Going undercover (LD 5×07 Fully Dilated) - podcast episode cover

Episode 69: Going undercover (LD 5×07 Fully Dilated)

Jan 11, 202543 min
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Episode description

Kev and Rob don their fake antennae and pose as local yokels as they spend twelve months trapped on a primitive planet watching "Fully Dilated". They then explore other times our Starfleet crews have hidden in plain sight, disguised as members of an alien world, including "The Enterprise Incident" (TOS), "In the Flesh" (VOY), "First Contact" (TNG) and "Face of the Enemy" (TNG).

LD 5×07 Fully Dilated

Subspace Radio #11: In love with an alien (LD 3×07 “A Mathematically Perfect Redemption”) with Jason Snell

TNG 5×25 The Inner Light

TNG 5×26 Time’s Arrow


DS9 5×01 Apocalypse Rising

Subspace Radio #58: Into the belly of the beast (DIS 5×09 Lagrange Point)

DS9 2×19 Blood Oath


TOS 3×02 The Enterprise Incident


VOY 5×04 In the Flesh


TNG 4×15 First Contact

Bebe Neuwirth

Carolyn Seymour


TNG 6×14 Face Of The Enemy


DS9 3×05 Second Skin


  • (00:00) - Episode 69: Going undercover (LD 5×07 Fully Dilated)
  • (01:22) - LD 5×07 Fully Dilated
  • (12:25) - Going undercover
  • (13:51) - TOS 3×02 The Enterprise Incident
  • (21:26) - VOY 5×04 In the Flesh
  • (33:19) - TNG 4×15 First Contact
  • (36:22) - TNG 6×14 Face Of The Enemy

Music: Distänt Mind, Brigitte Handley

Transcript

Rob

Hello and welcome everybody, we are back. We've been off for a little bit, but, you know, we just couldn't leave this halfway through, not completed. We need to get back and talk about all things Star Trek. We have episode seven of Lower Decks to talk about here on Subspace Radio. I am, of course, Rob.

Kevin

And I'm Kevin. Happy 2025, Rob.

Rob

We are in the future. Yes, I think we've made this joke a couple of times

Kevin

Well, we're extra in the future now because I don't think it's worth beating about the bush. I have seen the end of this season. I believe you have as well.

Rob

Very much so. So we are going back in time to do the episodes we haven't done to catch up where everybody else is.

Kevin

You know, work life balance. We enjoyed our holidays. We watched our Star Trek recreationally. But now we're back to do the professional job that you listen in for every single episode, listeners.

Rob

That's right. We've done enough R& R and, uh, Romulans and Relaxation and, uh, and Ractachinos as well. And now we've, yeah, three R's, and now we're back into the hard hitting, serious business, professional business of talking about, analyzing, and evaluating Star Trek as you all have come to love with us here at Subspace Radio.

Kevin

So what did you make of the purple Enterprise here in Fully Dilated, Rob?

Rob

Um, I had a great time with this episode. It was a, uh, a quite, uh, High energy, high camp episode. We really leant into the cartoon nature and the animated nature of this, what with Boimler and Rutherford back and their, you know, minutes of disaster trying to solve the

Kevin

Those screaming scenes of madly scrubbing the shrimp off of the, uh, transporter, control panel at times with their tongues were very cartoony. I will

Rob

Very cartoony, and also the lurking. Uh, native uh, on the planet

Kevin

Shout out to a friend of the show, Jason Snell, who, uh, guested one, one episode while you were away, Rob. Um, yes, he, he, he's immortalized as Snell in this episode of Lower Decks.

Rob

I hope he does a very good Snell impersonation. Nyeh,

Kevin

Nyeh!

Rob

My lurking has paid off. And of course we could not go, uh, as the headline mentioned, yeah, we always mention the best to last, the man who would never go back to Star Trek and now has come back to Star Trek, um, in, you know, in many different forms, uh, Brett Spiner came back for, uh, to play Commander Data one more time.

Kevin

Would never come back to Star Trek, except every single time, uh, the, the, the piles of money must be piling up that they, they need to pull out to, to get him back. I suspect the fact that he was only expected to turn up to a recording booth, not put on any kind of uniform or, or make up or contact lenses probably made a big difference in selling this opportunity to him.

Rob

I believe that was probably very appealing to him, um, but it was indeed great to have him interact, um, so beautifully with, with especially the, uh, the members of the away mission, um, and just gushing, as all Lower Deckers are, about just saying how much they are in love with, with, with Commander Data.

Kevin

You're so cool. I am cool? Then why does my warmth surprise you?

Rob

Hehehehehehe. How did you find this episode?

Kevin

Uh, well, you know, I think we, we need to acknowledge and move past just the, the nostalgia filled delight of getting to see not just Brent Spiner back, but like vanilla Data, I'm going to say. Like late TNG, still quite, um, I'd say bright and innocent and positive sort of Data. It's not, it's not, uh, old Data, if you'll accept that description. I mean, full respect to what Brent Spiner did in season three of Picard, really enjoyed that too.

But it did feel like coming home in a way and going back to visit your old high school sort of thing with Data here this episode. He really was his most bridge crew of the Enterprise self.

Rob

Very much so. And we did see, uh, the purple Enterprise D obviously as well, going in and out of fissures. Um, and that's just very, very clever. I love the throwaway line of the captain going, uh, they had some sort of run in with a purple version of Natasha Yar or whatever.

Kevin

Yes, clones of Tasha Yar or whatever.

Rob

Whatever.

Kevin

Um, very good. Yes. I enjoyed this episode immensely. I think it was, it was trading on many strengths at once, uh, not least T'Lyn and the dynamic between T'Lyn and Tendi was just, I felt like the backbone of this episode and, um, it really carried it along.

Uh, having them tied up at the end and, and then, you know, Um, metaphorically tied up by being given the same job at the end was just really delightful and, and felt like, I mean, not looking too far ahead to the conclusion of these, this series, but it felt like the end point of their character arcs for the show, really, in a, in a really nice way.

Rob

very much so. It's a case of. Yeah, yeah, um, Tendi is very much at that point where the competitive, well, yeah, I was going to do a bit of a spoiler, but I won't, but yeah, that competitive nature of her was able to be put to bed and she can just focus on being the best she can be without needing to outdo everybody else is a big step for her accepting herself fully within the Federation, but still her competitive nature.

Kevin

Yeah, it was the final crisis for Tendi. Like that, you know, when she wasn't sleeping and she had the bags under her eyes and she was not taking Data's very patient and good advice, it was like, no, Tendi, don't. But you have to realize before you leave a character on a positive note, you have to see them at their lowest. And we got to see Tendi at her lowest one last time.

Rob

Hero's journey. They need to go into the abyss and the abyss for Tendi is not getting any sleep and snapping at Data and turning him off.

Kevin

Being beaten by agriculture.

Rob

But I really liked the time they took to actually establish, like, we didn't get into massive detail, but within this, uh, culture, this pre warp culture, we had the time to, you know, get used to the way they dress, their architecture, a little bit of their culture, a little bit of their superstitions, as it were.

That type of stuff was, was enjoyable to have a bit of time with, and that's like old, old Star Trek of what you like, you like going to a new planet, a new civilization, find out something new week to week, and that was definitely one of the more well realized, uh, civilizations. And also a bit of work for Mariner there

Kevin

Yeah. I was going to say, I mean, you've been for a long time craving post self destructive Mariner. And I think that's what we got here. She is surprising, like almost, almost annoyingly, but not quite annoyingly chipper and positive and model Starfleet officer. She's like,

Rob

She wanted her in, she wanted her Inner Light

Kevin

Yeah, she is playing full "fangirl of Star Trek" Mariner. Like this is, this is where she fully admits that she has an encyclopedic knowledge of everything that has happened in Star Trek before and wants to have her own version of those experiences.

Rob

And that's what I love about the dynamic of it, is that because, you know, you could just have Boimler as the pure alpha nerd, uh, and that's it, but to have, you know, Mariner is a nerd as well. She is a Star Trek nerd. She knows all this type of stuff. And, you know, and she's, you know, she has jumped from ship to ship and it's taken her a while to get used to her authority and her power and her destiny or whatever that may be.

But there's still within her a deep seated love of the Federation and that's a great balance to have within this show. So you've got the pure nerd, and then, the other, there are many different types of nerds, no matter how, yeah, no matter how many we're told, we're all the same.

Kevin

Yeah, Boimler and Mariner were always set up to be like best friends, but I think the assumption would be they would be, uh, like an odd couple friendship. That Mariner would be the, the roguish, um, cool officer, whereas Boimler would be the nerdy, earnest one. But it's turned out they're both nerdy, nerdy earnest ones of, of slightly different stripes and that works really well too.

Rob

And they all are, like, you know, Tendi's a nerd, T'Lyn's a nerd, Rutherford's a nerd, who, might I say, and just like, uh, Boimler pointed out, his beard came in very, very

Kevin

Very quickly.

Rob

Heheheh. Quickly and evenly.

Kevin

Uh, absolutely.

Rob

I love that, but it goes, yeah, I've been getting a lot of compliments. How about you? Uh, not so much.

Kevin

Yes Ah, he looked terrible, Boimler, this episode. It's just like, seriously, we're going to draw him like this for an entire episode? An entire episode. And it's going to feel like three.

Rob

They're taking their time. They are taking their time to get this full Boimler beard happening, and they're going to make us sit through an entire ten episodes to get, hopefully, a perfect

Kevin

It did remind me of Rutherford just before Tendi got back when he was at his lowest and he was like unshaven and the sweat patches and stuff and it was not a plot point for that episode really, yet they drew him quote unquote ugly or disheveled for the entire episode and it was both distracting but also like nice to see the investment or the commitment to the bit.

Rob

Definitely, definitely. Yeah, I had a lot of fun with this episode. It was all the, you know, it was what a lot of people criticize about Lower Decks is it's too noisy, it's too loud, it's too big. Um, all those elements worked well here because there was such a heart and, uh, such a truth to it. And yeah, that's what Lower Decks has just proved week after week. It is a Star Trek show, just not the way that, uh, we're used to. And so, yeah, I had a great time.

Kevin

Uh, yeah, some, some great Data stuff, uh, of course. The, the, the, um, when he chews them out of their ropes and Tendi remarks, Oh, you really are fully functional.

Rob

That was a little bit saucy.

Kevin

And, I was reading about, there's this reference of, well, how, when you were stuck, uh, back in time, how did you escape? And he said, I waited in a cave until Captain Picard, myself, and some guy in a silver jumpsuit dug me out. We'll call that plan B. Um, but I was like, silver jumpsuit? I do not remember that.

But sure enough, you go back and you watch the opening moments, of the, uh, I think it's the season five finale, or it's, it was this, yeah, it's the season five finale going into season six.

So it's a, it's a two-parter and, uh, the, the, yeah, the opening of Time's Arrow is basically the Enterprise gets called to an archeological site where Data's head has been found, uh, on Earth and yeah, it's Picard, Data and a random guy in a silver jumpsuit who is one of the archaeologists who discovered it. But he's not really given a name or anything. He's got a couple of expositional lines of dialogue.

Um, and, uh, I was reading that the original, that was something that they found in the booth for this episode. Like the original script was, I waited until I was rescued or something like that. And they were like, Hmm, that isn't quite as punchy. What else could we do? And they went back in the, in the moment during the recording session, they went back and watched the start of Time's Arrow and went, well, it's Captain Picard, myself, and some guy in a silver jumpsuit.

Why don't you just say that? That was hilarious. And, uh, so it came together in the moment. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob

Amazing.

Kevin

Uh, sounded like fun making this episode and I'm sure this show in general, it's, it's, it's sad that it's over.

Rob

Yeah, and it's very, it's very clear that Spiner had a great time on there. You could just tell that he was giving his all, that he wasn't phoning it in. Um, and it was a, you know, the answer or the solution we all expected, um, was that just give them both the job, was of course Data's sage scientific advice.

Kevin

Yeah. All right. Well, uh, the, the topic that we chose to pick out of this episode was times that our, our Starfleet officers or people go undercover, uh, often in plastic surgical, uh, get ups provided by the medical officers on the show.

Rob

Now of course, one of the big ones uh, one of my favorite ones, we've already talked about before, which is Apocalypse Rising, where you had four of the Deep Space Nine crew go full Klingon, to find out about the uh, conspiracy and there's a, there's a rat amongst the high command within Klingons. But yeah, so we've already talked about that one, which is a magnificent episode, uh, start of season six, I believe.

Kevin

Yeah, I always get that one mixed up with, uh, the one where, uh, they team up with Dax to go and settle the score with the albino. For some reason in my head, those are the same mission, and they were all dressed up as Klingons to go and fight the albino, but of course they're not. They, and that is kind of the point, that, like, Dax is not the tough warrior that she once was when she last dealt with him as Kurzon.

Um, uh, but yeah, anyway, they, they are completely different episodes for the record. I don't know if I'm the only one who gets those two confused.

Rob

And that episode of course has old actors who played Klingons in, uh, the classic series. So there's some wonderful, uh, return performances from, uh, classic actors

Kevin

Lots of Klingon makeup, just not on our Starfleet officers. So yeah, I thought I would talk to, talk first about the original one of these, which is from the original series, uh, Season 3, Episode 2, The Enterprise Incident. Um, one of, arguably, the best, episode of season three of Star Trek.

Rob

Season 3 is quite a challenging one to find good episodes

Kevin

But, uh, you know, you assign Dorothy Fontana to write your episode, you're gonna get a good one. And, uh, yeah, they did a real good job on this one. This is almost kind of like a, a Cold War spy thriller, uh, in Star Trek. Kirk feigns being kind of, uh, irritable and out of control at the start of this episode. So he seemingly goes rogue and orders the Enterprise across the Neutral Zone into Romulan space. And the entire bridge crew is like, did you get the order? No, I didn't get the order.

He seems to be acting a little irrationally. And Kirk's just, you know, snapping at people left and right on the bridge. Meanwhile, there's like voiceover from McCoy doing his medical log going, he won't come into sickbay for a medical examination no matter how many times I ask him.

And. Inevitably, they are intercepted by Romulan ships, and Kirk and Spock go aboard the Romulan ship to negotiate, during which time the Romulans are quite fascinated, if you'll pardon the term, by Spock as a Vulcan. This is like where the Romulans and Vulcans shared heritage is traded upon, and they're kind of like, Ooh, a Vulcan serving among humans, that must be tough.

And they, Kirk and Spock, play out this little ruse where, um, Spock pretends to be sick of serving with humans, Kirk pretends to, to shout at Spock as a disloyal traitor, and, uh, Spock seemingly kills Kirk using, quote, the Vulcan death grip on his face. Um, and it's all a ruse. It is, once again, um, you know, Kirk kills Spock. Kirk wakes up in sickbay and everyone's like, Kirk, you're alive! Ah, there's no such thing as the Vulcan death grip, it turns out.

But this is for Spock to go behind enemy lines and he's, you know, promised a ship of his own in the Romulan Star Command. And, uh, he, he has quite an intimate evening with the woman who, uh, leads the Romulan ship, the commander. She's never named, she's just called The Commander.

But she's a beautiful woman and they have this, uh, very kind of intimate rendezvous that I'm, I've read was originally scripted with a fair bit of kissing and canoodling, but Uh, Dorothy Fontana stood her ground and said, Vulcans don't do that sort of thing. They, they kiss with their fingers and that's what we're gonna do, darn it. Uh, and so, so it was.

But, uh, the point of bringing up this episode here is, once he is, uh, returned from the dead, Kirk uses the opportunity to dress up as a Romulan. He gets McCoy to give him Romulan ears and eyebrows. He steals one of the Centurion's uniforms from the brig where, you know, when they went aboard the Romulan ship, they traded a couple of Romulan officers, uh, as a, as a, you know, a, a guarantee. So he takes one of their uniforms. And beams on board the Romulan ship, posing as a centurion.

Now, the logic of this plot is a little weird. You've just been on board this ship, very noticeably, as a human captain. Uh, and now you beam on lookin like the same guy, just with pointy ears, but everyone is bamboozled just long enough for him to deliver a karate chop to the neck and knock people out. Uh, and Kirk is there to steal the cloaking device. That is the purpose of this entire ruse.

While Spock keeps the commander busy in her quarters, Kirk, uh, makes his way into engineering, steals the cloaking device, and the Enterprise makes its escape under cloak. Uh, and, uh, yeah, Scotty manages to wire it up to the Enterprise deflector system in, in the nick of time.

Rob

Of course he does.

Kevin

Yeah.

Rob

he does.

Kevin

But, uh, yeah, great fun. Uh, Kirk, when he comes back from his mission, like walks back onto the bridge, still with his pointed ears and everyone's shocked to see him alive because last time they knew he was dead. Not only is he alive, but he looks, looks very unusual and, and he has to tell everyone, not now, go back to your seats. And it's fun to watch, you know, uh, um, the entire bridge crew react to this. It's, it's good stuff. It's,

Rob

Well, how's, um, Kirk's Romulan performance? Because I mean the one thing about this is what we talked about with um, Apocalypse Rising is that um, you know, it was great to see like Sisko play a Klingon and or how uh, O'Brien couldn't really handle or Odo as well. So how is Kirk's um, uh, in your critical opinion give you give us a review of um, William Shatner's, kirk's performance as a

Kevin

It's fun to watch. The Romulans are still a little underdeveloped at this point in Star Trek history. So they are, they are a bit just kind of, you know, that, that Roman Centurion sort of air. And, and he does do that well. When he beams on board the ship, uh, he's alone, but immediately, uh, another Romulan officer walks around the corner, and Kirk does a very good snap into Romulan mode and says, says, Oh, where's commander Tal? I need to report my escape.

I've just affected my escape from the human ship. Um, where's commander Tal? And he goes, Oh, he's on the bridge. He goes, very well. I shall be certain to mention your alertness to him. And they do a Romulan salute to each other. And it's very, yeah, you know, it's good. Um, Kirk in general is really good in this episode at the start when he is like, pretending to be, you know, kind of power mad and out of control.

He does, there's a lot of scenes where he has his back to the bridge crew and so we as an audience are let in on his emotional state in these moments, and he's doing a very good job of like keeping up the pretense for everyone behind him but letting us, the audience into the fact that there's a little something going on. Uh, and it's really strong, um, beautifully underplayed, I'll say, by William Shatner here.

Um, there were some memos that went back and forth, um, uh, between Gene Roddenberry and the new producer of the show, uh, for season three, where Gene congratulated the new producer on getting that performance out of William Shatner. He's like, I'm really glad to be seeing new strength out of our captain. I've been saying for a while we needed that color from him and it's lovely to see that you're achieving that with him.

Rob

Wonderful, wonderful

Kevin

So yeah, it's a good one and um, yeah, established this conceit of the, uh, medical officers being able to do a bit of disguise work on the side. At the end, uh, when the dust settles, McCoy calls up and reminds Kirk that he needs to report to, uh, sickbay to have his ears bobbed. And Spock steps up and says, Captain, please go. Somehow they do not look aesthetically agreeable on humans.

And Spock of course is playing it completely straight, but the rest of the bridge crew is giggling, uh, in the background. So it's

Rob

Having a big laugh because you need to finish the episode

Kevin

Always have to end on a laugh in a freeze frame, yeah. No, they hadn't developed the freeze frame technology yet. That came in the 80s,

Rob

That was very much an 80s, uh, strength and curse.

Kevin

yes. Um, What was your one?

Rob

Well, my one is, uh, I'm, I've kind of inverted the process. I've been a bit sneaky, so I've gone with one where they are undercover, um, but the, the, the crew are undercover because they've come across something that is all too familiar, so they don't need to disguise themselves because what they're going into is, uh, a well laid out disguise. I'm talking about Star Trek Voyager. Uh, Season 5, Episode 4, In the Flesh.

Kevin

Is this the one with the fake Starfleet Academy?

Rob

It is the one with the fake Academy, where they ask all these questions and they answer none of them. Because, why should we spend time focusing on answering how this thing happened, when we can spend more time with Chakotay being a doge?

Kevin

All right.

Rob

Where we have the moment, what is this sensation that you humans call kissing?

Kevin

Oh.

Rob

Yes. Uh, we open, uh, with Chakotay and, uh, Tuvok, seemingly at Starfleet Academy, uh, in San Francisco. And of course, uh, the groundskeeper, famous groundskeeper, Boothby is there.

Kevin

Oh man, Boothby. That guy, out of one line of dialogue in Star Trek The Next Generation, he cashed so many paychecks, that actor.

Rob

That is, uh, the wonderful Ray Walston, who, uh, was an incredible actor. And, uh, I remember him mostly from a 90's show written by David E. Kelly called, uh, Picket Fences, which was the biggest

Kevin

Picket Fences real

Rob

Picket Fences was, like, the biggest thing in the 90's, and then it just disappeared. Like, as soon as it finished. Everyone forgot about

Kevin

Very similar sort of character of like, sort of the patriarch of a community.

Rob

That's right. He was the judge in Picket Fences. And so he was gruff and always went up against Douglas Wambaugh for the defense and Don Cheadle as the, uh, as the prosecutor. Um, so yes, he's here being his, um, old amiable self who knows everyone because a twinkle in his eye and a smile in his heart.

I love, I love the, uh, old school 90s modern technology of the, um, I can't remember the name of the device specifically that Chakotay's got just to take photos, and it's about the size of an iPad.

Kevin

It looks like, you know, around this time in the real world, digital cameras with floppy disks that stick into them were becoming a thing and they seemed to design the prop as a slightly futuristic but same size and shape version of that, uh,

Rob

Yeah. It's every time I giggle where they just have that 90s analog perception of the future where they have. Um, all these, like, iPads stacked on top of each other, going, well, look at all these files I need to read. And they're going, they couldn't even comprehend the fact that all those files could just be in one device.

Kevin

Well, yeah, it was like a holographic imager or something they would say.

Rob

And so, the investigation is on for, uh, Why is this here? Because it's clearly we see a shot from the outside. It's just like a space station and this whole interior is like a facade.

Kevin

It's fun whenever an episode starts in medias res like that. That you're in an unfamiliar space and then at a certain point, the establishing shot comes late, if you will.

Rob

Yeah. Love, I love being mid mission. I love we start in the middle of the adventure. Um, and mysteries come along. So Chakotay goes to the bar and then one of the, one of the members within the bar starts reacting badly and their face starts morphing and then they're dragged off.

Kevin

Just be cool. Just be cool. This is completely normal.

Rob

Exactly. And like, you know, we really shouldn't be talking like this, Chakotay talking to, um, uh, Commander Valerie Archer. Nice drop there. Um, we shouldn't really be talking like that, but, you know, being in this form for this long and needing to sleep eight hours a day is such a waste of time. Uh, so Chakotay getting what information he can. Um, and then things, of course, go wrong. They get caught.

Uh, trying about to teleport out by a young, um, security guard, played by the brilliant Zach Galligan, who's from, uh, Gremlins 1 and 2, in a very small role as Ensign Gentry. And then the mystery really thickens when, uh, uh, the poor old Ensign is not coping well with being taken back up to Voyager, and so commits suicide.

And, um, they are able to take away the facade of his humanly body and find out that, yes, the species that is undercover is of course Species 8472, who we saw last year, who Voyager teamed up with the Borg to defeat

Kevin

Yeah.

Rob

powerful.

Kevin

It's a, it's an interesting, uh, way that the show dealt with the challenges of that Species 8472, like clearly Species 8472 was like, what can we do new in our Uh, foe in an adversary race. Well, all of our adversaries have basically just been some version of humanoids with prosthetics stuck to them in different configurations. Let's go wild. We've got this CG technology that's just barely capable of it. Let's make a non humanoid, foe, a non humanoid enemy.

So they do that, and then they immediately realize, well, these non humanoids cannot emote in a recognizable way. They cannot speak or communicate in an understandable way. How do we tell stories with this thing? I know, we'll make them dress up as humans in a fake Starfleet Academy, and then we're back to kind of just the same old adversary, uh, prototype again. So it, it's kind of admitting defeat for what they tried to do with Species 8472.

Nevertheless, this is a story that I feel like we have not seen before. It was enjoyable from what I remember of this episode. So I'm kind of happy with what they found, but it, it seems to me it could not possibly have been what they were looking to do with that species when they first dreamed them up.

Rob

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff in there about, a lot of questions asked, like, um, how did they get this information? It's so pinpoint accurate. Um, uh, Janeway does a whole thing of when they find out it's Species 8472, uh, they immediately believe that everyone is a suspect. So they go through a whole process of checking Chakotay's DNA, that he's proper. There's a lineup of all the rest of the crew going into the doctor's office to get checked as well. But nothing ever comes of it.

And they must have someone on the inside. And they never discuss it. As soon as everything is brought out in the open. The final section is Star Trek pure diplomacy. So it's discussing this, what common ground do we have? How can we make this work? As opposed to the big mystery which led the first two acts of, uh, this episode: where did they get the information? How do they know so much about us? And then it becomes a case of We're all quite common in the end.

Well, how can we oversee, you know, and they're not just species who want to wipe us all out, even though they said that in the previous episode. So it's quite a lot of big questions and statements are started at the first, this tantalizing conspiracy, and then it goes into we're all the same,

Kevin

yeah, yeah.

Rob

with a final shot of you know Janeway mentioning early on in the episode how Boothby would always give me a flower when I'd be walking past and so at the end he pulls out the flower and gives it to her. We still don't know how he knows

Kevin

Yeah, defanged a bit, uh, the Species 8472 in this episode.

Rob

because there was such a ominous menace when they first were brought in that that Voyager had no other option but to side with the

Kevin

Yeah, the Borg are afraid of them, was the biggest, uh, thing. Yeah, and the Borg are afraid of them, but they'll pick a flower for you to make you feel nice.

Rob

And there's stuff and there's stuff in there about you know uh Seven of Nine's education as a human you know and her, her conflict with Janeway, Janeway going, no, I'm going for diplomacy, and Seven of Nine going, we should blow them out of the sky, we should destroy them.

Um, and then at the end, Seven goes, well, if I had followed, you know, if we had followed my way of doing things, we would all be dead, but you have saved us by using your logic and your, you know, diplomacy, and you're being very un Borg, and Janeway, being smart, going, yeah, no, I'm great. Um, And Chakotay just making out with anything, because he's a doge.

Um, so, yes, it was sort of like an invert of no cosmetic surgery there for them, but a lot of awkward moments that kind of was a big part of the 60s Star Trek of going, you know, what we do as humans is the best, and why doesn't everybody want to kiss like we kiss, or dress like we dress, or look like we dress.

Kevin

All these episodes have that kind of before the unmasking and after the unmasking sort of phase and, and it's, it's really fun as long as we get to live in that, that period of like the audience knowing more than the characters on, on the screen. How long do, you know, Chakotay and, and Tuvok, was it, that are…? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. How long do they get to like remain incognito in this episode?

Rob

Um, they're pretty much, uh, there's a, there's a great moment. I was going to bring it up when he start, uh, a date is set between Chakotay and Archer, and so they go back up to the ship, they take the security ensign, uh, the cadet, he's, uh, he kills himself, they reveal, okay, this is serious, they're in disguise, the Species, uh, 8472. Uh, Chakotay goes, I've got to go back, I've got a date to keep, I've got to find out what information I can. Janeway goes, okay.

There's little moments in there as well, Janeway and Chakotay going, hey. Where they do a bit of talking back and forth, and I can see the flirty stuff after, um, more so probably because of Prodigy. Um, and Tuvok doesn't go back. Tuvok stays on the ship, but it's through his date with, uh, Archer. He's taken back to her apartment. They do a bit of kissy kissy. Um, and the whole thing is, is that alright? He goes, well, let's keep on trying. Um.

Kevin

this how, the humans do it?

Rob

Yes, she goes and gets changed, there's a nice silhouette of her undressing, he looks at one of her information pads to find out more info. He goes, I have to leave and finish an assignment, which, and then as he leaves, they, she gets in touch with Boothby, who's the leader, and goes, um, gives the information, and Boothby gives the great line, let's cut to daylight so we can find him easier.

So it's a very Truman Show moment where, uh, Chakotay's walking out in darkness and then with a flick of a switch, everything goes to daytime and everyone just swarms on him. So that's a nice moment of, that's when the ruse is broken, which is sort of like at the end of act three.

Kevin

Yeah, so we get a while of the skullduggery continuing, which

Rob

Pretty much, yeah, we've got, yeah, so the first three acts, uh, cause, most television hour long, uh, dramas of five acts for including ad breaks. So first three, uh, within the drama of it and then diplomacy for the last two.

Kevin

I'm noting that The Enterprise Incident that I was just talking about and this one both have that kind of, uh, boudoir scene. In mine it was Spock and the Romulan commander and there is this moment where, where the commander says, I find myself, I am surprised to find myself this moved by the touch of an alien. And Spock says, I too must confess to feel myself moved emotionally.

And there's a, there's a bit of the, you know, aliens meeting in, in, uh, on a date, if you will, uh, in both of these. And that carries true in the next episode I wanted to talk about, which is First Contact. Not the movie, but the episode from Star Trek: The Next Generation season four, number 15, in which Riker is injured in a riot while undercover on a planet that they are preparing to make first contact with.

And so in preparation for first contact, Riker, uh, is on a mission kind of in, in, uh, in costume as a native of the planet. But there is a riot he gets caught up with. He gets knocked out, he gets taken to hospital, and the doctors at the hospital very quickly realize this is not one of our own.

Rob

I think I might have seen this

Kevin

Yeah, well you might remember Bebe Neuwirth, uh, guest starring very prominently as the nurse who offers to help Riker escape from the hospital in exchange for sex.

Rob

I don't remember the sex part, but yeah, I do remember seeing her, you know, all, uh, alien bumpied up in certain photos.

Kevin

She says, I have always dreamed of making love with an alien. It's your only way out of here, my alien. And she's, she's in glasses and, and, uh, has the, the three fingered alien hands like very, uh, very excitedly pressed in front of her. And, uh, Riker kind of looks around and goes, Well, I guess we're doing this, and it cuts to the, cuts to the next scene, and she's adjusting her glasses on the way out of the hospital room as she leads him out.

Unfortunately, the escape is foiled by, uh, by the rest of the hospital staff, who, word has gotten around about the alien that is there, and, and Riker is once again fallen upon by the natives. Uh, meanwhile, Picard is negotiating with the Chancellor of this planet. He introduces himself to them. There's that come up to the ship and see your planet from above moment that we get in the movies as well. Um, so all of that is happening here in the backdrop.

But, uh, for my money, the, the scene of this episode is, um, is sex being traded for escape by our doge, to use your term, Commander Riker.

Rob

And the wonderful Bebe Neuwirth. I love Bebe

Kevin

she's so good. It's worth just watching this scene, um, for, for her tiny little, uh, turn on Star Trek here.

Rob

Yeah, because they've done like, uh, comparison photos of, obviously, characters from Frasier who've been in, um, in Star Trek. So, of course, uh, Kelsey Grammer appeared in the, in the lost, uh, uh, Starfleet ship, uh, episode, and, um, Bebe Neuwirth here, and I think a couple of others. I know, Jason Alexander from Seinfeld did a Voyager episode.

Kevin

Mm hmm. Um, yeah, I'll, I'll also call out Minister Yale, who is, I guess, the, the main guest star of this episode. She is the, the lead scientist on the planet's project to develop warp, their first warp flight, which is what has triggered the first contact. And she's played by Carolyn Seymour. Um, uh, a great, uh, guest character actress who returns in the other episode I wanted to bring to the table today, which is Face of the Enemy.

No, a completely different character, but it is a Romulan, so we're going in circles with our themes here. Um, season six, episode 14, Face of the Enemy has Carolyn Seymour playing the commander of a Romulan ship. But in this episode, it's Troi who is undercover. The cold open of this episode starts in darkness, uh, and a figure wakes up and, uh, it's Troi's voice and she asks the computer to turn on the lights and nothing happens.

She finds her way to the vanity in these quarters she finds herself in, turns on the lights. With a, with a button on the wall and is shocked by her own reflection, which is a Romulan. She has been, without her knowledge, kidnapped and modified to look like a Romulan. A Romulan officer named N'Vek introduces himself and it was he who organized her abduction. Uh, she is to pose as a member of the Tal Shiar, the secret service of the Romulans.

And she is meant to order around this ship in order to organize the extradition of some defectors. Uh, all of this was plotted by Spock, we learn later, in a message to Captain Picard. This is part of Spock's "cowboy diplomacy". Um, and, uh, he has arranged for some defectors to be smuggled off on the ship with Troi posing as the Tal Shiar that, that, uh, is pulling all the strings, um unwillingly for her. Like, she was kidnapped to run this mission.

Um, so it's a lot of kind of beautiful, um, she doesn't want to do it, but she has to do it to get out of this situation. And then she does a remarkably good job of it. The plan falls apart. And then she, ultimately, comes up with a fallback plan and orders around N'Vek herself and says, well, look, I'm the Tal Shiar on this ship. I can tell the captain to have you executed if you don't do what I say. And it's beautiful. But Carolyn Seymour, coming back to our guest star here as the commander.

Um, does a beautiful role as the, the captain, the, the commander of the Romulan ship. There's a scene at the captain's table where Troi is there doing her best impression of a hard nosed, uh, unflappable Tal Shiar, who believes wholeheartedly in service to the government. Whereas the captain we learn is kind of a peacenik by Romulan standards. Her father was dragged away in the night for being a little too idealistic as a young girl. And so she mistrusts the Tal Shiar.

She does not want to see the Romulan military be too militaristic, unnecessarily. And Troi, who internally believes that as well, internally is working on a secret mission to advance that same cause, nevertheless has to put on the face of someone who is completely against it. It's so well written and tightly performed, this episode. I recommend it very highly.

Rob

Well, uh, Carolyn Seymour is a wonderful actor. She's, uh, done, uh, BBC series Survivors back in the 70s. She was in the computer game series Giz of Well, for me, I remember her from, uh, uh, Quantum Leap, the famous, um, Bad Leaper episode where, um, in Season 5, things get a bit messed up where they go outside the parameters of what Quantum Leap was meant to do and they brought in this parallel dimension where there's a leaper going through to ruin everybody's life.

And uh, Carolyn Seymour plays the Al equivalent who's the, the hologram with all the information. So she appears in two episodes of, uh, of Quantum Leap. She's very, very good. Yeah, I'd love to, I have to check those out because I'd love to see her in the world of Star

Kevin

Oh yeah, a couple of delicious roles as well. Um, I watched these two episodes back to back and it was not until I read the, the Memory Alpha pages that I realized it was the same guest star. That's how, that's how different the characters were.

Rob

Wonderful.

Kevin

So there you go. Lots of, uh, lots of, uh, faces in disguise, including a guest star in disguise, um, in, in our episodes there. I, I confess there's not as many of these as I thought. Every time Lower Decks does a send up of a trope, I'm like, well, there must be 20 of those for them to be making this much fun out of

Rob

Nah, it was, it was, a, it was a tough one to find, like, because there's all, you know, Picard goes all Romulan for Unification, I believe? Um, Uh, like, uh, and uh, Kira puts on the costume of a Breen in the final, uh, ever story of Deep Space

Kevin

There's one where she's done up as a Cardassian as well, and it's very challenging for the character because obviously she hates Cardassians, but she has to like wear the skin of a Cardassian

Rob

Yes, I can't remember which that one is, so leave the comments below, so, uh, in all caps, please, I only respond to all caps, uh, which episode it was. Um, so, yeah, it's, it's always the way, it's always the way we go, well, because they're homaging it, there must be oodles and oodles again. No, that's how nerdy they are. They're very specific.

Kevin

Well, good, good to go through those with you. I'm already looking forward to our next one, which is going to be about Upper Decks.

Rob

What a name. What a title. And, um, what an episode for us to focus on. I think we've already had an episode that focused really on the the bridge crew, I think. So this is going to be one that's more pointed, I assume.

Kevin

Well, we'll see. Until then, I'll see you around the galaxy.

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