What are false positives?

that weird? Uh? Yeah, well, I guess Jerry kind of provides like a teacher like presence, and I guess Nol is kind of like a substitute teacher like presidents. So I didn't ever have the urge to drink whiskey in elementary school. But I can see where you're coming from. It was eighth grade before that started from me. I did drink to college. But I don't know. It's just and neither one of the Jerry. No one would care. Even it's just some weird thing about the teacher leaving

the room. After all these years, I'm still like, all right, I need to act up right. My thing went more towards paper airplanes than breaking out the pint bottle whiskey I have in my sock. Again, I didn't even drink until college, so of course I wasn't doing that. I just probably started joking around. No, I know what you mean, but today's Chuck, but hit the bottle right. Actually, today's Chuck is all business. Because I hate to tell you this, buddy,

but you're doing your job right now. That's true. We both are because this is our job to podcast. It's funny during the the Emily and Chuck pre Oscar's Mini Crush show, it was kind of dragging on. She's like, this starting to feel like a job, and I was like, this is my job. This is the job. The job we we say. We talked about it like cops talk about their jobs, good jobs. We're real, real podcasters that job. Remember that show The Wire. Have you ever heard of it?

I'm just kidding. We've talked about it before. I remember they called that one uh cop, real police, Yeah, real police. I can't remember her name. Yeah, they said a lot on that show. Yeah, but they mostly talked about one officer in particular, police trying to think of Yeah, right, there you go, So let's start real podcasting is this

one gonna be a stinker. No, it's not. Actually, it's actually really do you know why, because it has the hallmarks of a good episode, And I'm gonna I'm gonna peel the curtain back a little bit for everybody, Chuck. One of the hallmarks of a good episode, at least of stuff you should know, is that there is controversy associated with something even where there doesn't seem to be, and that there are people who are either getting drew

it over, suffering, being neglected, being abused. There is some group of people who the rest of the world aren't really thinking of, um, who are who are suffering at the hands of other people. And this this actually, this episode has all that, all right, Surprisingly, I'll let you guys guess where that stuff comes in. Alright, So we're

talking about false positives, and here's what that is. If you've ever been to the doctor, I've had a medical test done generally, well, not generally always, you will get one of four results. Yeah, good point. You can get a true positive. And remember, when you're getting a medical test back, positive is negative. Yeah, usually means bad news. Positive is not good. They don't say I have news, I have good news. For you. Your results are positive, it's a little bit of a mind trick that you

need to reform. But positive is you have this condition. Right. It means that the the test that that searches for a condition found a result. It is confirmed as yes. Right, so that's it should say that's a true positive. Right. Yeah, then you've got a true negative, which means you don't have this. However, I feel like me or probably you and most people, you say that's good news, but I should like to get a confirmation on that. Yeah, how

do you know? How do you know? Doc? Then you can get a false positive, which is what we're talking about here, which is they say you have this condition, like let's say you have cancer. I'm sorry to tell you, but you don't, as it turns out later on, which is great. False positives are kind of they should call it the new lease on life result, right, the Dabney Coleman out of time result. And then the worst of

all probably is the negative. Agreed. Man, I'm glad you said that, because this this article just walks right past that fact. That means results say you're fine, but it turns out that you're not. Your your toast, so whatever the lead and not even good avocado toast. You're bad burnt toast right, exactly terrible stuff with that really cheap sliced cheese that nobody would want to eat. What's what's the opposite of a lease on life to result um

early death? Sudden early death out of the blue, Although there is something to be said about that, about just not knowing right just out of nowhere, bay up, you just fall over dead. That's not necessarily the worst way to go. Yeah, I guess I was thinking more in the play on words of instead of a new lease on life, something to do with renting in your landlord, so an old and uh, we'll figure this one later and dub it in Wait, what's it called when you

get kicked out of your apartment? An old eviction death? God, we did it, chuck man. So those are if you take a test at the doctor, those are the four possible results you can get. What's really interesting here, and this is something that you're going to want to remember. And after you hear the rest of what we have

to say, you're really gonna want to remember this. But when you hear something like this test that I'm about to give you is accurate It doesn't mean that if it comes back with a positive result that says you have this thing. It doesn't mean there's a nine chance that you have that. It just means that when they say a test is accurate, that if if you do have that disease, there's a chance that this test will catch it. Okay, huge, huge difference between those two things. Okay,

that's step one. So really what this is saying is that this test doesn't let very many false negatives get through. And if you look at the numbers, this is how that works out. If you have ten thousand people chuck, and they take a test that's accurate. Uh and and this is so ten thousand people and the them don't have this and it's a ninety nine percent accurate test, there's going to be one hundred that come back positive out of ten thousand. Okay, nine of those positive results

are going to be true. One is going to be a false negative. Okay, Okay, are going to be negative. They're gonna come back negative. One are going to be true negatives, but are going to actually be false positives. Right. I know this is really mind bending, but if you if you take the numbers like this, that means that only one out of nine thousand, eight hundred and two people had a false negative. So that's a big deal. As you said, that's the big daddy, that's the one

you've got to really watch out for. But nine out of a hundred are false positives, which means that this accurate test has a fifty percent chance of giving you a false positive if you come back positive. Should I just not even have said any of that stuff now? I think it's just funny that after ten years it's done on me that you have to true talents. One is explaining extremely complex things in a very easily digestible way, and the other is completely confusing me with words that

come out. Well, this is very confusing stuff. I mean, it's not just me, this is BAYSI and statistics. Basically, the point of all of this is is that, first of all, if you're accurate test comes back that says you have something, it doesn't mean you have a ninety nine chance of that you have it. Very important number one. Number two, if it does say you have it, there's a fifty chance that a test is wrong even if

it's accurate test. That's a big thing to remember that if your doctor doesn't explain that to you, you punch him, him or her in the arm and you say you're not doing your job fully because I'm scared, buddy. Yeah, I just got a positive test result and I'm scared out of my mind. So if your doctor is not going to come for you, hopefully Baysian statistics, well, and don't listen to me, go look it up yourself, because I'm sure someone else on the internet can explain it

better than I can. Perhaps Mr Billy Bays in his whole statistical model. Was he a character of Melrose Place? I think so. He's a pool cleaner? Um. Alright, So with medical testing period, like you said, if your doctor is not telling me that, with with any test that you take, not all medical tests are created equally. Some are really accurate, some aren't as accurate as a well

that's about say, so they could be. There's accurate as they can be, which is to say, maybe not as accurate as you would like it to be sure, but you really need to talk to your doctor and hopefully they're offering this up anyway, like, Hey, what's the deal with this test? How reliable is this? Do I need to get a second test? Because the whole thing with false positives and false negatives and even true positives and negatives is there's a bunch of different reasons why uh

follow up testing is both good and bad. Like sometimes these procedures, like the follow up isn't like a pen prick. Sometimes it's an actual surgical procedure that you may not need a lot of times, and we'll get into these more specifically, but there's expense involved. Um, a lot of times you don't you didn't need to spend that money, but you know, it's hard to say, because you should be your own medical advocate and spend whatever money you can to ensure that uh, the testing is is reliable.

And then there are things like the time that it takes between these things, like all right, we'll see you. We need to follow this up with another test, but it's gonna take three months to get you in. And in the meantime, in those three months, you're stressing out, you're up all night, you can't sleep, your sex drive is out the window. That sounds like a silly thing to talk about, but it's a real thing, especially when

you're grown ups like us. Yeah, it's important, um, but it's it's a here's a study from two thousand nine said, granted this is a little old, but it's from the Annals of Family Medicine, and when it came to test for prostate long colorrectal and ovarian cancers, they found that positive false positives. Uh, after four tests they did tests, I think either four tests or fourteen test. After four tests, you had about a thirty seven percent chance for men

in the chance for women for false positive. And then the more test you got, the more that went up, which is distressing. It is something like if you had fourteen tests, all fourteen to the tests that they studied, um, you had a sixty point four percent chance for men and forty eight point eight percent chance for women of

coming back with a false positive. And again this isn't just like it's yes, you have that new lease on life on the other side, but studies have shown like these, getting a false positive result from a test, it it can be emotionally devastating and it can have an impact on your finances if you're a Scrooge McDuck type who's only moved by the idea of money, well and your physical health because of stress. Yeah, because it's not like you're not addicted demand which in the time just because

you're stress eating the whole time. So that's not good for you. What was man? Which man? Which was a canned sloppy joe starter. Okay, I know it's a meal, and well it's more than a meal. A sandwich is a sandwich, but a man which is a meal? Oh that's right, I got it wrong. You're like, no, it's more than a meal. Even it's even greater than the ads per prophecies. Uh so the financial costs like you

were talking about Scrooge McDuck um forty. They did another study of about a thousand people, and this was in December of two thousand four and the issue of Cancer Epidemiology bio Markers in Prevention that is a legit journal, just by the title oh for sure, oh eight, and then it says and and wakeboarding. More than participants had at least one false positive. Of these people went on to receive additional care at a cost of about a thousand dollars for women and about eleven for men. So

that's not chump change. No, it's not um And a lot of people say, well, who cares, I got insuredce, Well, the health care spending is kind of a problem in this country. There's apparently in two thousand five, the National Academy of Sciences big shout out to them UM. They found that there was thirty of healthcare spending was wasteful in the United States in two thousand five, and the idea of that gave rise to something. There's a campaign

called Choosing Wisely. Have you heard of that? Know? So it's a campaign called Choosing Wisely. They have a site

called Choosing Wisely dot org. It's a joint effort between the American Board of Internal Medicine, so it's physician based and consumer reports, and they're basically saying, like, there are a lot of unnecessary tests being performed out there that are leading to these unnecessary surgeries, unnecessary expenses, unnecessary anxiety, and we want to figure out what they are, and we want to start advising people against them, or at

least advising doctors to advise their patients against them because they might be unnecessary. And so this campaign UM has really kind of had a big impact is we'll talk about in a little bit. You know, the idea of breast cancer screening has changed. The recommendations have changed from what I understand from this Choosing Wisely campaign as UM really kind of just shifted things from well, this over abundance of caution can't be harmful to actually there are

some harms involved in an over abundance of caution. Let's kind of UM streamline our caution and make it a little more UM laser focused. Should we take a break? Yeah, all right, we'll take a break, and I'll I'll hit you with a stat right out of the gate when we come back. All right, So before break, you were talking about UM breast cancer and mammograms in particular, And there was a study a few years ago in twenty two zero about false positive mammograms and breast cancer over

diagnoses alone at four billion dollars a year billion. So it's it's just such a fine line of uh, striking the right note with preventative care and over diagnoses. Yeah, and here's here's the problem. Like the tests, it's not like they're not out there saving people's lives. Yeah, it's not like the people like Dr Papa Nicolau who came up with the pepsmere said, oh man, this is gonna be like a cash register for Western medicine. That's not

what these tests were designed for. Unfortunately, they are used in some circumstances like that, and probably more circumstances than that. They're used again out of an over abundance of caution, because no doctor wants to be responsible for missing something and their patient um and and the leading to their patient dying, so they're using this over abundance of caution.

The problem is that the tests aren't aren't infallible. They do have um they do have accuracy problems, and some tests are better than others, or another way to put it, some tests are worse than others as far as false positives go. And it takes the PEPs mirror in particular. UM. With the PEPs mirror, it looks for pre cancerous cervical cells. Right, three million, three million women in the United States get

a positive PEPs mirror result UM. From what I understand, every year only three thousand of them have a deadly cervical cancer and that of women will get a false pepsmere in their lifetime. But is the thing. Four thousand women who die in the US every year from cervical cancer, most of them did not have a PEPs mirror or hadn't gotten a PEPs mirror in the last five years. So there's a really there's a there's a tough um relationship between using the tests and and and overusing the tests.

And for every say, I think two thousand women who undergo a mammogram, one woman's life is saved. Well, those two thousand women, they didn't know whether it was gonna be whether they were going to be the one whose life was saved or not, so that to them or to their doctor, it was worth it. Unfortunately, two hundred of them will get false positives, and ten of them will undergo unnecessary surgeries, painful, unnecessary surgeries to remove non

cancerous suspicious cells in their breasts. So there's this idea where yes, we need to use these tests, and then there's also this idea where we need to use these tests better or come up with more accurate tests. Yeah, I mean, in particular, mammograms UH and screening for colorectal cancer are two of the big ones that can show a lot of false positives, and they're sort of under the microscope as to how we can correct this UH

moving forward. UM. For instance, mammograms UM correctly identifies breast cancer of the time However, uh, if you're younger, if you're a younger woman, or if you have very dense breast, you're more likely to have a false positive. And so because of this, over the past like even ten to fifteen years, they've changed the recommended recommended age a few times for who when when you should start getting these mammograms. It's gone from I think in two thousand nine they

recommended between fifty and seventy four. Uh, then I think it went down, but mean, um, I think it went all the way down to forty. At one point, forty was where it started, I think where it started, then up to fifty and now I think this is the latest as of a few years ago, the A c American Cancer Society said if you are at average risk, and this is probably how they should do it and

not just a sweeping age. But if you're an average risk, you should start at forty five annually, but you could begin as early as forty and I would guess that means if it if it runs in your family, and then after fifty five every other year, like Emily's mom and my mom both went through breast cancer, so Emily started getting mammograms. I think it maybe even at forty because she was in the higher risk group. Yeah, and

they're no fun to go through, but she is. Uh. I think Emily has a good head on her shoulders as far as advocating for herself, but also um, not going off the deep end. Yeah, that's simily like through and through. Like she's not just gonna sit there and be like, oh, whatever you say, doctor, and she's like that actually doesn't sound quite right. She will stand up

for herself. Yea. Yeah, advocating for herself it's important. Um. So with Mamma Graham's chuck, from what I've seen, nobody's saying, well, this is a kind of X ray, so you don't want to build up, you know, the radiation. That doesn't seem to be the problem with overuse of mammograms. What seems to be the problem is that they that well, a Mamma Graham is an X ray, and the X ray is handed off to a radiologist and they apparently are like eight eighty four some high eighty percent effective

at finding cancerous tumors in breast. Just looking at an image of a breast. This trained human being can say, yep, there you go right there, circle it initially go follow this up. The follow up UM is it results in a a biopsy, usually a needle prick biopsy to remove some of the cells. Those are examined, and if those come back as suspicious, a doctor might say, we need

to get those cells out. Most of the time those aren't actually cancer as cells, but they're still being removed surgically, which is painful, costly, and can be a problem emotionally to have to go through that surgical procedure to have cells removed that you didn't need to have removed. That's the that's the problem with with UM mammograms as far as getting them frequently, and supposedly, between ages forty and fifty, a woman has a fifty to sixty percent chance of

getting a false positive result from a mammogram. Yeah, man, I mean a sixty chance. Yeah. And again, no one's saying, oh, don't get mammograms. They're gonna just totally screw you up. It's more like medical community, we need a better way to to find to keep an eye on breast cancer. I mean they're trying. I sure they are, of course they are. In Colorectal cancer is a perfect example. UM. It is the second leading cancer related death in the

US right now? Um was it? Say here? A hundred thirty two thousand, seven hundred new diagnoses in two thousand fifteen. And one of the big problems with colorectal cancer is that not a lot of well, I'm saying a lot of people, but I think about fifty of people don't follow up on a recommendation to get a colonoscopy because they don't want to get a colonoscopy. Yeah, so that's a problem. Have you got one of those? Not yet? You know not. I haven't either. I'm really really not

looking forward to it. And I was researching it today and just almost fainted like three or four times while I was reading the procedure. About the procedure, Yeah, it's hardcore, man. There's like a finger with tube that they stick in your anus, past your rectum up to your colon. The c seesme I think it is, which is the top of your colon, which is basically where the your rib

cage ends on your left side, that's your sesome. They go all the way up there and it has like a camera and a light on the end, and basically what they're doing is visually inspecting the inside of your colon. If they see something that they find suspicious, they can put four steps through the tube and take a sample of it and then just you know, come on back out.

Normally they'll they'll give you a sedative for this. UM. They also give you I can't remember the name of the drugs um, but it basically makes you forget that it ever happened. Like you can prevent you from forming memories during the procedure. But most people don't want to

go through this, even though it's extremely effective. It finds like of um coal erectal cancer from what I understand, Yeah, it's amazing, what like all the advances of medical science, they're they're literally saying, like the best way is to really just get on up in there and take a look. Just jamming up there, you know, get up there. However, they do have some because like we said about people won't even get a colonoscopy when recommended. Uh, they have

other tests. Now they aren't as accurate, but at least they're at least they're trying to get another test on the table for people that are reticent to have the two stuck up their butt, and some of them work. There's this one called colon Guard from Germany. Yeah. They they have accuracy rate of um no, no, no, this one is oh well yeah, yeah, yeah, colon Guard. That's high. Because I'm sorry, I'm miss spoke earlier. The the colonoscopy catches. So this stuff that you just poop into a cup

and mail it in and some Porschemo tests it. Right, that's that's really great. Well it's not not quite. It showed of the cancers that a colonoscopy would uncover. Okay, so that's not overall. Oh okay, I got it. But it's still pretty good, right, But it has a high high false positive rate, of which I mean if you think a tube up your butt will make your rectum pucker, so will a false positive of colorectal cancer. Yeah, the German one, although that might be German two. But there's

another German. Uh actually this is a German study about stool tests, and that's when you literally are just looking at it trace amounts of blood in the stool. Well, some do that had accuracy all over the place. That was from which I mean, that's such a wild swing, right that I don't know if I would opt for

that one of them. So one of them. Some of them, I should say, probably most look for blood in the stool, some some look for DNA or genetic material of cancer in your stool, and another one looks for chemical changes of a certain gene that's that could be present in your stool. And by stool, of course, I mean poop by the way, everybody um and they analyze them for this, and again they're pretty good at catching the stuff, but

they're also pretty good at giving false positives. So I mean, that's just a great the idea that we can catch like colorectal cancers with colonoscopy, But people who need one don't go get it because it's such an awful procedure that, like you were saying at the outset, like that begs for something new. You want to take another break, Yeah, let's go prepare the finger with tubes. We'll talk about

drug testing right for this. Okay, all right, So we've honed in on mostly medical testing up into this point. But if anyone's ever taking a drug test, there is always the risk of a weird false positive. You can be a clean liver and still get a test that said, hey, it says here that you smoked marijuana and you can be like, dude, I don't and have never smoked marijuana, and then you have to plead. Like basically every athlete ever this test of positive for anything says I didn't

do it, man, this false positive. They're like whatever, stoner, but it does. That's like the same thing with up my Twitter account was hacked alright, Like really every time some thing awful came out on your Twitter speed someone hacked it. Yeah, but Twitter hacking does happen, and true false positives and drug tests definitely happen. Yeah, it depends

on on what you've been doing. Like if you are using a prescription medicine or even some over the counter medicines, you can come up with the false positive on a drug test. It says between seven and fifteen million people a year in the United States get a false positive drug test. That's a lot because think about it. When you know, if you're applying for a job and you go do the drug tests and you go home and you hear that you got passed over for the job, I don't know if they tell you that it was

because you failed your drug tests. And even if they do, they're not going to be like, well, we want to hear your side of the story. Mr Candidate number nine twenty seven. You know they like you, just you just lost out on a job because of a false positive. You lost out on a sports scholarship, you lost out on, UM don't know, getting to deliver meals on wheels, who knows, But you're gonna miss out on something because of a failed drug test when you didn't do anything. You've been

a straight air of your whole life. But again, you did you You made the mistake of um not keeping up with what prescription medicines can give you false positives. Yeah, and here's the thing parents, if you drug test your kids, I'm not weighing in on that one way or the other. But if you drug test your kids and they return a positive test from marijuana and they say, Mom, that's because I was in the car with some people who are getting stoned. That's how it showed up. Uh, it's

not true. I hate to break it to you, but that is not You will not I don't think you can ever get a false positive for a marijuana from second hand smoke. Right. That's not your cue to burst into tears and grab Todd and go oh Todd, I knew you would never use drugs, And Todd's winking at the camera and breaks the fourth while and winks at the camera Ferris Bueller style. Yeah, stoked. It did kind of remind me though, because it said here that cocaine is one of the drugs that routinely do not come

back with a false positive or a false negative. Yeah, it's kind of on the money. That means they have a good test for it. Well yeah, but I kind of that made me remember that old thing. I used to hear that like whatever percentage of dollar bills has cocaine on it, and I thought that's totally not true and one of those things that you just here in school. But I looked it up and apparently that is totally true. Uh. There was a study just a few years ago in New York City by n y U and they found

of dollar bills had trace amounts of cocaine. Yes, some ridiculous amount of euros to too. Yeah, and not just cocaine, It's like there was some morphine, heroin and meth and lower quantities and then all manner of disgusting gross things on on paper money, right, which apparently people were using to roll into a tube and sticking into their nose to ingest draw ugs with not were but kind of always have. So so the idea that, um, you can

find drugs on money? Have you heard that? They're They're like local laws around the country in the United States that say that police can confiscate money as drug money if they test it and it turns out that there's drug residue on it. But it sounds like it's of money. Yeah wow, yeah, not too cool. What are some of the other things that can give you a false positive

aside from just jamming dollar bills in your nose? So remember that Seinfeld where I think Elaine was supposed to go on a j. Peterman trip but she got she got disinvited because she turned up positive for heroin. But it turns out that she was eating lemon poppy seed muffins every day. That apparently is true, although this article

or how stuff Works article gets it wrong. So the poppy seeds don't actually contain opium, but when you're harvesting the seeds, opium can rub off onto the seeds and depending from people, they were doing opium no no, no from so like they're harvesting opium from the poppy and then they're harvesting seeds later, and the seeds can come

in contact with opium residue from the poppy plant. And then however, well they're processed or not processed by the time you eat them, they they have they might have a substantial amount of opium on the outside of the shell, which will show up in a drug test. Seinfeld was correct because I felt was correct. Apparently, ibprofen um can come back with a positive from marijuana, barbiturates or Benny's m Benny's and that was Jack Carouac's drug of choice,

one of several. Yeah, but he really, I mean I remember him writing about the Bennies a lot. That's how we wrote that book in like forty eight hours. He write on like one long scrolling piece of paper. That's what I've always heard. But last time I heard that, I was like twenty years old, so I know it looked into it since I think it's true, Well, I think I've seen it. Jack Caroway clad us no, uh uh. Some some OTC colden allergy medications apparently can result in

result in positive tests for like emphetamines. It's crazy. Yeah, well you know that, like like if you're making bathtub crank. You can use suda fed as like a precursor or an ingredient in just crank. And that's why you're only allowed to buy like one box at a time with a driver's license. It such a seventies. Well yeah, if you're using over the counter suda fed to make your

your meth, that's cranky. It's crank. Uh. And then tonic water. Surprisingly, um, apparently quinine contains a little bit of the real quinine, which is a drug. So here's the thing I looked into this. I could not figure out why quinine would result in the positive test for heroin. Here's why, Chuck, you ready for this. I'm ready because you know gin

and tonics are my jam. Okay, well, just be careful because gin or tonic water does contain sometimes like eighty three milligrams of quinine in it, which was a malaria drug right well back in the thirties, Supposedly heroin dealers started adding quinnine to their heroin to combat malaria. That was the urban legend. It turns out that's not the case at all, but quinine actually interacts with heroin in a way that kind of boosts it and it also,

more to the point, mimics heroin's bitter taste. So somebody would taste the heroin and what they were tasting was quinine, but they thought they had like some dynamite s gag on their hands. So it was really just kind of to take terrible junk and make it seem like it was much better by adding quinine. Apparently this has been going on for so many years that they that drug tests test for quinnine because they consider that an indicator of the presence of heroin. I think my big takeaway

is here, is it quinnine and not quinine? I've heard both. Okay, that's your big takeaway. I was laying down gold. Well here's my deal. As lately, I don't have been buying um. I've been buying the real deal tonics. Yeah, like Feverit Tree. I hate to use the word artisan tonics. You should, but I've been buying the artisan tonics because they're delicious, and I've really embraced bitter as a as a taste that I can enjoy. Now Here in my late forties, I've never liked bitter at all, but I'm kind of

have come around to it a little bit. Yeah. It is like the definition of an acquired taste, isn't it. Yeah? But now I really like it. And you know, these these tonics that they make her like they're made from the real Uh, what's the root the chincha? What is it chinchilla? It's not chinchilla, chin shona? Is it chinchona? I believe so. Yeah, And that's like the key ingredient, right, Yeah, from what I understand it is the key ingredient tonic.

I'm not an artisan tonic making cinchona bark so as I. Yeah, I don't know if that's the key ingredient or if it's one of them. There's also like in white willow or something in that like an ingredient, and aspirin is also in to water. Yeah, I don't know. I enjoy it though, And it's it's the thing is, you don't use a ton of it. You just use like an ounce and then some club soda or whatever. If you have artisan soda water. Oh, I see what you're saying.

So you're using artisan like tonic, not with any kind of fizz. You're using like the tonic tonic. Yes, oh wow, man, that is that's hardcore. It's you know, it's like dark brown. I got you, and then you pour that in. It's like a couple blounces a gin an ounce of that and then top it off with some soda water. Give it a good shake. Man, that sounds great. It's really good and it has a nice come over, come on over. I think I started gin and tonic season early this year.

That's great, which is not good. No, it's great as well. Okay, yeah, it's not good. It's great artisan tonic made from doomed goats. They have some down They have a one kind downstairs at the eighteen. Yeah, the bitterest place. Yeah, And I like, there's okay. But then there's another one in Evandale, States that I think. I like there's a little more so is there like a specific tonic or just like the

general tonic that they have? Well, the one uh in Evandale, States is one called dry Tonic and one called robust Tonic, And I think the robust just has a little more limp lime citrus. But they're they're both delicious this stuff, man, Nice work, Chuck trying, yes, deer clear of the drug tests. I'm pretty sure they're going to start instituting them at stuff media any day. Now. You know, the only drug test I ever had to take my entire life was

when I went through, uh the adoption process. Oh yeah, I remember that. I never had to take one for for work or anything. Uh, nor have I now that you mentioned it. I think we're in the minority. You never had to drive a Bobcat for work. I did, but the guy I worked for couldn't have cared less. Who's insured to the teeth? Before we go, Chuck, you got anything else? You got nothing else? All right? So before we go? I found um one test that is just supposed to be. It just seems to me like

it's the gold standard for test. It's an HIV screen and it's called the Enzyme linked immunos Orbit Essay or ELSA. I think we talked about it in our HIV two parter um. This is how this test is performed. So you you get this one screen, the ELISIA screen. If it comes back positive, a second ELISA screen is performed if that's positive, of a separate test that uses an entirely different technique is performed. All this is in the

lab before you ever hear your results. And that means that one in the United States, one out of two hundred and fifty thousand tests show a false positive. That means that has a point zero zero zero zero zero four percent chance of returning a false positive. That is a bomb test. Yeah that's all I got. I got nothing else. Go check out choosing wisely dot org. It seems pretty interesting to me. Uh And in the meantime, how about some listener mail. Yeah, I'm gonna call this

email from Mr Sweedman's class. All right, this is actually from Mr Sweedman and on his class, but we're gonna shout out his class and helps that he starts incorporating this into his class. Hey, guys, love the show on Walrus is wanted to chime in regarding reproductive isolation or reasons why different species don't mate. I have taught biology for several years and evolutionary biology is always my favorite unit. Remember when we talked about reproductive isolation and yeah, what

other different types of like how that? How that would manifest itself? I remember? So he says there are several types of reproductive isolation, and geographic isolation is one of them. And here's a little breakdown geographic isolation when species live in different geographic reasons, sorry, regions, ecological like isolation, same region, different habitat, Okay, okay. So so they're in the same they're in the same big city, they just don't hang

out the same clubs, different neighborhoods, different neighborhoods. Behavioral behavioral. I always have a trouble with that word isolation. One species mating behavior won't work on another. For instance, a peacock won't attract a chicken, right because the peacock can't do chaw cockaw? No, what is the peacock say? Help? That's right. Uh. Temporal isolation, same area, but breed at different times, and that could be everything from the season

to literally the time of day. That's called two ships passing in the night reproductive isolation. And that's like I like morning sex and the other one's like, shut up, I only like depth sex at night when I'm drunk. Then there's gametic isolation. Mating can occur, but sperm and egg won't mix. No, not you again, And he says in this case it is usually the egg releases a

toxin that kills the sperm. Quid. That's right. Uh, And finally has said, my student's favorite type of reproductive reproductive isolation, mechanical isolation. That's when the parts don't fit, like just wait, just hold, like, just give me a second. Wait, I can do this and then nothing, he says, think square, peg, round, whole. Sure, that's a really good way to put it, way better than what I was. So there you have a guy's all the types of reproductive isolation. Now you know, and

knowing is half the battle. G I, Joe, nice job. Don't stop believing or whatever journey lyric guide your life. That is from Mr Baird Swedman. Thank you, Mr schwed Man. I's goot that you added at a h What is it Swedman? It's just Swedman, but I like Mr Mr Schwedman. I have to call him Schwedman. You know Mr Swedman from PS right exactly. That's how I'm doing well. Thank you very much, Mr Swedman. I'm sorry I got it wrong in the first time, but Chuck said behavioral wrong,

so we're even. I could never say that right. If you want to get in touch with us, especially if you are one of the fine teachers instructing America's youth or any youth of any country around the world, because we think everybody's great. You can tweet to us where s y s K podcast I'm at Josh Ouam Clark Chuck's at Facebook dot com slash Charles W. Chuck Bryant.

He's also on Twitter at movie Crush. You can send us all an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com and it's always Join us at our home on the web stuffy sho dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff works dot com.