The Taliesin Massacre

could have. And make no mistake, Frank Lloyd Wright wasn't artiste. He was an artiste of architecture. Yeah. Have you ever how many houses of his? Have you seen? Our buildings? I've seen a bunch. Um. I've been to Holly Hawk in Los Angeles, have been to uh Youth Sony and I can't remember which one in Wa Washington by the one of the I can't remember what other historic house it's by. They moved it. Um. I've been to there's a Usonian in Alabama. Chuck in Florence, Alabama, which is

really neat. Been to Falling Water, Um, been to Talius in West I think that's it. Yeah. I've been to a handful of myself. I've been to one in Tulsa and a couple in l A. Of course, the Googgenheim. I think we've both been there, and I have not. I have not. Really. Yeah, all the times you've been to New York and all the museums that you never stepped footing the Guggenheim, It's true. I've never been in the Googenheims. Sadly enough, I saw a movie where there's

a shootout in the Googgenheim. I highly recommend going to the Guggenheim. It's great. Okay, I thought it was George Costanza bit designed the googen him, not franklind Right. M that's right. He always wanted to be an architect. That's right. He's had. My favorite line for that episode is when he talks about the redesign plans at the Guggenheim and they go really, he goes, yeah, really didn't even take

that long. That's right. Yeah, he's saying that he was the one who redesigned it, like it's impressive that it was just a really quick job. Yeah, that's a classic. Um. But we're not talking about the Googgenheim to day, Chuck, We're not even talking about Hollyhock House. We're talking about specifically tally Essen, which is widely regarded as um Frank

Lloyd writes genuine bona fide masterpiece, like his greatest work ever. Um. I think it was it said that it's his um autobiography written in wood and stone, that it's just him and not just him in a specific time and place. But for like decades were the work, his earliest work to his latest work all showed up and appeared over time at tally Essen. Yeah, I mean there's a lot there. Um. It was his home at times, it was his studio

of school. Um, an eight hundred acre estate. This was family land, it was it was his favorite hill in Wisconsin and the river valley there where his Welsh grandparents originally homesteaded, and so it was very personal to him. So he did things like make the roof so it doesn't leak water into the offices below like some of his other properties. Exactly. Yeah, he wasn't oneing to just move his desk, right. So, UM, this this particular house and it was a and it still is. It's a huge,

enormous house. I think it's twenty one square feet. Um, it's a classic example of what's called the Prairie style, which is a style of architecture considered to be the first genuine American style of architecture UM that Frank Lloyd Right founded back in they think the eighteen nineties, maybe the late eighteen nineties, and it has it takes its inspiration from the surrounding environment. It's been to blend in with the environment, work with the environment, rather than to

dominate it. So there's a lot of horizontal lines, a lot of natural materials, a lot of woodworking, and um tally Esen is very much in that style. UM. I think it has five and twenty four windows, which is a lot of windows, and um it also has no gutters. There's a lot of cannilivered roofs which kind of overhang pretty far. Um, so there wasn't necessarily need for gutters.

But I read that franklod Right specifically didn't want gutters because he wanted icicles to form on the eaves of the roof so he could look out of those five windows in the Wisconsin winter and see all the icicles hanging. Do you like the prairie homes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. My problem with Frankloyd Rice work is that it's so dated an old timey that it almost like it almost makes me um a combination of scared and nauseous. You

know what I'm talking about. Have you ever looked at a wicker wheelchair from like the turn of the last century, You just kind of get the creeps from it for some reason? Okay, you get that same. I mean this. You know, he did the bulk of his work a hundred years ago, you know, somewhere in that range. But it was also like it was also very technologically um advanced, and like he was just doing some really interesting stuff.

So the way that a very dated, once technologically advanced piece of work can kind of call that weird feeling out of you. But at the same time, I'm like in genuine awe of this stuff you did. Like Falling Water is one of my favorite houses in the entire world. I mean, it's just amazing. What about you? I like them, all right, They're they're fine, um some of them. And you know, I have some here in the neighborhood that

pop up every now and then. Some newer builds are in the prairie style, and I like them more than some other kinds and less than some other kinds. Let's just say that you you like craftsmen, Well, sure, I live in a craftsman That's that's my favorite. But I like craftsman too. I think they're good. I appreach. I mean, I love a highly slick modern home. I don't want to live in one, but I love them. I would not want to live in one. Either those are hit or miss with me, Like, some of them are just

too just god awful. Some of them are just when they hit the nail on the head, you're like, wow, that's one of the best houses anyone's ever designed and built. But they miss. It's almost like documentaries and horror movies. There's a lot of them, but only very very few, like are truly great. That's my that's my impression of modern homes. Yeah, i'man. We're in architecture though, as a as a couple, Emily nine, we watch a couple of

you might hear me, great, well that's two. It's a triad. Well, I guess they're uni in there, and I guess, but uh, we we have a couple of shows that we love to watch that are this one called Grand Designs on Netflix that I highly come in. Uh and oh man, what's the other one? There's this cup not a married couple, but a pair that travels the world. The British architecture bake off. No, that's not it. I can't remember what

it's called. But Grand Designs is really good. I mean, and they follow these, you know, sort of impossibly built houses designed and built by these incredible lunatic dreamers who are obsessed with sort of a thing. It seems to be the common thread as these obsessives, and it leads

to something beautiful and great, you know, usually for sure. Yeah, so, um, what are the things about Frank Lloyd Wright is that he is including during his lifetime he's considered one of the greatest architects ever lived, certainly the most popular, popularly well known, maybe, I guess you'd put it like anybody who's ever heard of any kind of architecture, even vaguely,

is probably familiar with Frank Lloyd Wright agreed. So when he when he um put all of himself into Tallys and he was building a home for himself, and I think it was completed in nineteen eleven, and like it's worth pointing out, he was returning to his childhood home to the valley where his his clan like settled, Like if you if you look around spring Green, Wisconsin, everybody's got the name Lloyd in there somewhere, like his maternal

ancestors settled the area. And he was literally building on this hill, his favorite hill when he was a child, like you were saying, but he was doing this in the midst of one of the biggest scandals like any architect's ever gone through. Yeah, so uh, as you'll see through this show. And if you know anything about the man, Frank Lloyd Wright had a bit of a wandering eye and a bit of a philandering habit, and he had a an extramarital affair with a woman name m A

m a h Mama, mama four huh. I don't know, I've I've been testing it out too, I said, Mama, Mama, sure bourth Wick and she was, um, you know. They met in nineteen oh three, right, was in his mid thirties at the time. He was already really famous as an architect, and he was commissioned to design a house for her and her husband, Edwin Cheney, and they were it was going to be built there in Wisconsin pretty close to Chicago, where Frank Lloyd Right was at the time.

She was pregnant in her mid thirties at the time with her second child, and got really involved in in sort of working with Frank Lloyd Right very closely, and that sort of you know, the the classic story. At first, it starts out platonic. One thing leads to another, and before you know it, they're bumping uglies. That's right, smashing, as the younger kids say, from what I just heard that for the first time the other day, I didn't know that was a thing. So it's a thing though.

Um So, frankloud Right by this time had six kids of his own, and he had made a name for himself like around Chicago building homes, designing homes for um the well to do, especially in the Oak Park neighborhood. Apparently just between nineteen hundred and nineteen he designed fifty prairie houses. So he'd made a name for himself. But apparently by the time I think nineteen o eight was when he no. Nineteen o seven when they started their affair. By the time nineteen o seven rolled around, he was

getting kind of tired of doing the same thing. It's kind of like he was cursed like this. This school of architecture that he developed was so popular that he that's all anybody wanted, and he had gotten bored with it by that time. So he seems to have been unfulfilled professionally and kind of took it out on his family. And about the worst way you could possibly take things out on your family, short of cutting them up with

the machete. Yeah. By nineteen o eight, it was a pretty much well known open secret in Chicago and that high society in Chicago that this affair was going on, and he was sort of looked down on from his friends and his neighbors and his peers, different colleagues. His poor wife, Kitty was a long suffering because she kind of stood by a side anyway. Uh. And he'd realized that he really wanted to leave his family, and he did so. He said, I did not know what I wanted.

I wanted to go away, and he did in September of nineteen o nine. Uh, Frank left with her, went to Europe, left his wife and his six kids behind. Uh. And here's one of the more selfish quotes I've ever seen from a husband and father. Uh. And this was in his autobiography. So when family life in Oak Park in that spring of nineteen o nine conspired against the freedom to which I had come to feel every soul entitled, I had no choice. Would I keep my self respect

but to go out of voluntary exile. So he really felt um and you know, those were his words in his autobiography. So he wasn't he had no illusions about himself, but he very much felt that. You know what, Um, Frank Lloyd right, and I'm a man, and I deserve this by my right. Yeah, So those are two key points. He's a man, so he deserved it. But more than anything, he was a legend in his own mind, which was

sustained and verified by the public at large. But he was Frank Lloyd right, So more than anybody, he deserved that to to go do whatever he wanted, and you know, whatever the consequences were for other people emotionally, to hell with that. Um. One other thing that I think is worth pointing out is that he had money problems basically his entire life, despite the fact that I mean, this

man designed the Google him. He designed some of the most iconic UM buildings and houses in the United States and he had money just coming in by the truckload, but he would spend it as fast as he could get it and then some. So at this point in time when he was um, when he left his family,

he apparently left them in financial straits as well. There there was there's a biographer named um Paul hendricks and, uh, Paul Hendrickson, I'm sorry, and he points out that there was a nine grocery bill that was laying on the kitchen counter when when Frank Lloyd Wright walked out on his family, which I mean, at least pay the grocery bill, so the family that you're leaving an alert can eat, you know. Yeah. So his his mistress left her two

kids with her husband. Uh, she went on a train to New York City, met Frank at the Plaza Hotel. They had a few days there of I guess smashing, and then went to Europe and uh, you know, he was famous the world over, so it's not like he could lay low, very famous face, very a dresser of fine clothing and those hats, so he didn't exactly blend

in anywhere he went. So he was found out in Berlin. Uh, Chicago Tribune had a headline that said, leave families, semi colon, nice little switch there, Elope to Europe and this whole time, poor kitty, She says, it appears like any other ordinary, mundane affair with the trappings of what is low and vulgar. But there's nothing of that sort about Frank. Right, He is honest and sincere I know him, my heart is with him now. I feel certain that he will come back.

And that's that's one of the saddest parts about all this is she was sort of like, he's just flandering a bit and he'll come back to us. Yeah, it is sad, but also, you know whatever his kids were thinking too, like, well, I guess dad didn't love us enough to stick around. Um another I think kind of

telling clue about Frank, Lloyd writes, enormous arrogance. Was he called um his and um uh, what are we going to call her, chuck mama, I'm calling her mamma his and mamma's um flight to Europe to after a banding their their families. He called it a spiritual hegaraga, and I had not seen that word before. And it turns out hegira or hegora h g g i r a is what um Mohammed's exodus from persecution in Mecca was called, and he left Mecca to go to Medina where he

founded Islam. And to Frank Lloyd, right, this is what he and his mistress were doing when they abandoned their families and fled to Europe. Yeah, he thought a lot of himself. He was an s ob man, plain and simple. I don't like he's a classic example of like having to compartmentalize the genius of the work and just to complete horrible nous of the person. You know, But it

can be done. It can be done. I I disagree with anybody who who says, you know, there's certain exceptions, I'm sure, But anybody who says, well, this person held some pretty pretty terrible views, so we shouldn't pay any attention to their work from that point on, I disagree with that. I think that there are tons of exceptions to that rule. Although there are tons of exceptions to the exception to that rule too. If that's not confusing enough, well,

I think it's a personal decision. If someone wants to never gaze upon falling waters again, then that's their choice totally. It's not like I'm gonna you know, grab them by their hair and like making them look but I would disagree with them and in in a lot of cases, yeah, like Manson's music fantastic, just beautiful, stuck, really good stuff. So uh, Frank Boyd Wright Um returns to Chicago nineteen ten. Uh, Mimall stayed behind. She stayed there in Europe for another

year because she was getting a divorce from Dwin Cheney. Uh. And so she stayed there wrapping that up for Rank moved back with Kitty. He had no intention of staying. Uh. And I think it was pretty clear to Kitty at this point because she said Mr Wright. I wonder if he made her caller in that Mr Wright reached here Saturday evening October eight and he has brought many beautiful things, everything but his heart, I guess, And that he has left in Germany, but he came back a bit of

a pariah. Oh, just to Tad, they were. They were pariah's before. There was a woman who grew up living next door to Mamma and her children, and she Um, years later, in her diary, recounted a time when her mom refused to give Frank Lloyd right cream when he came over next door from next door to borrow some and said that they were sinners and she wasn't going to help them out at all. Um. So when they left for Europe, made headline news for leaving their families.

And then he returns moves back in with his family just long enough to plan his next home for him and mamma um like. Yeah. The people in his social orbit did not take very kindly to that. Professionals, neighbors, friends, gossip colonists, basically everybody in the Midwest who had anything to do with anything like we're rejected him in mamma yeah, and to boot when he gets back because he needed

seed money for uh for his new home. He had a benefactor named Darwin Martin, and he said, hey, listen, I want to build this great cottage, uh, and this affair is long over and this is going to be a cottage for my mom, and I promise it's not going to be our little smash shack, and so give me twenty dollars to get this project going. He got it. He moved into the home with his mistress and I think by Christmas nineteen eleven they were officially living together

there in Green Spring. Yeah, he said thanks chump, thanks for the money. And because just trashing Frank Lloyd Wright as a person is a lot of fun, I want to add this detail too, um Darwin Barton, his benefactor, over the course of Frank Lood Wright's career, lent Frank Lood right grand total and when the stock market crashed in Darwin Martin lost everything like he was flatbrook was went from an extraordinary, extraordinarily wealthy man to just flat

broke for the rest of his life. Frank Lloyd Wright never repaid any of that money, but he made sure that when his autobiography came out that Darwin Martin got a free copy. Oh that's nice. Yeah, he really, he really pulled that out at the last minute, didn't he. All Right, So let's take a break and we'll come back and talk about things taking a turn for the worst a few years later in August of laws stuff

you should know, okay, Chuck. So let's just go ahead and get in the way back Well I don't want to see this. We'll just talk about it. We'll leave the way back machine out of this one, okay. So on on Saturday, August fifteen, around lunchtime, actually exactly at lunch time. Um, Mama Borthwick. Uh, Frank Lloyd writes, Mistress, longtime mistress, Um was sitting down for lunch on a

terrace at tally es In with her two kids. Uh. To his great credit, Edwin Cheney, her ex husband by this time, was not interested in keeping Mamma from seeing her children as punishment, so they went to visit Um pretty frequently. Uh. And this was a time when they were visiting. So the three of them were sitting down to lunch. John I think he was ten, and her daughter Martha, who was eight, and Mama, Mama, We're sitting

down to lunch on the terrace. Okay, just put that in your your pin, put that p in your hat and smoke it. So that wow, really mixing metaphors. So, uh, they're out on the terraces. Inside in the dining room there are five of Franklin Dwright's employees, h Emil Burdell, Thomas Brunker, David Lyndblom, Herbert Fritz, and William Weston and then Weston's son Ernst. So they were all sitting down

to eat. Um. I think put a pin and maybe both of these scenes and we'll tell you a little bit about the handyman of the property named Julian Carlton, who in the weeks and months leading up to this date had been acting really weird. Uh. He was aggressive, he was getting in arguments with other people. Um, he was acting very strangely. He started sleeping with a hatchet and a sack beside his bed. He was married, and his wife, you know, verified this stuff. Um. He was

talking about killing people. And there was rumor that he was being let go, and that there was that he and his wife were already had a basically a trained book to Chicago to look for other jobs. So this is sort of the mindset of what's going on with Julian Carlton at the time of this lunch, right. Um, so Uh, Julian was actually so he was a handyman, but at this point he he also helped out, helped his wife Gertrude when she was cooking. He would serve.

So he served lunch to Mamma, and then he served lunch to the five employees in the dining room. And then as they were they started to eat, he approached Um William Weston, the foreman of the whole jam William Weston was a pretty important guy around tally Essen and asked if he could go get some gasoline out of the shed. I guess because he was going to clean some rugs with it with gasoline. It was with gasolene y, then, sure that's some old timey rug clinging if I've ever

heard of it. But UM, so so western. Sure, sure of course, go ahead, and um things went really things went downhill really quickly from from that moment on. Yeah, so I appreciate you leaving this part to me. Um Carlton comes back, Oh, I'll fill in. Don't worry. He's got the gasoline and he also has an ax. And the sequence is a little bit unclear. I've seen both

ways of which happened first. But he slaughtered uh Mama Borthwick Borthwick and her kids on the porch and then poured gasoline under the dining room doors and uh trapped them in the room and set the dining room and therefore the house on fire with everyone trapped inside. It

gets even worse than that, though. Um. After he had slaughtered Mama and her kids with the axe and um set the house on fire, he went around two window, a dining room window where the people who are in trapped in the dining room that had just been set on fire. We're jumping to safety from and as they jumped to safety, he ran after him and killed them with the axe. He would finish them off there. Sometimes they were on fire and he would hit them in

the head with the axe and killed them. And there were nine people who were dining that day, and he managed to kill seven of the nine. Um three people survived the initial assault, the fire, and then the picking off of the axe. The first guy who got away was named Herb Fritz. He was a draftsman, a younger guy. I think he's still a teenager who went on to

become an architect, I believe. But he he was the first one to jump through the window, and so he was able to get pretty far away from Julian Carlton before Carlton noticed that people were jumping through the window and came around to pick him off with the axe. That's right, William Weston got out of the window. Carlton hit him with the axe, thought he was dead, but he wasn't dead. In the meantime, Fritz, like you said,

he didn't even Carlton didn't know he was gone. So he actually managed to get to the neighbors and contact authorities, which in a up being you know, ended up sort of saving a lot of the house because they helped put it out. And the other guy who managed to at least get out the window was David Lindblom. Uh.

He escaped with Fritz, So Fritz and Limblom. Like when they ran into that house, it was like a half a mile away, which was really significant that Limblom was able to do it, because he was burned so badly that he died from his burns, and yet one of the last things he did on Earth was to run a half a mile to to get help at the house, the nearest house with a phone. Yeah, so, uh, you know,

people get there, they put out the fire. Um hours later, Uh they Carlton was discovered in the basement of the house in an asbestos lined boiler room. Uh. He went down there to to die in the fire, but also doubled up by drinking a bottle of hydrochloric acid to make sure he did the job. And neither one of them work. He actually survived both of those things. I actually saw that he was in the furnace because he was trying to survive the fire, and he didn't drink

the acid until he knew he was discovered. Oh see, I saw the opposite that he went down to the

furnace because he wanted to die in the home. Huh. Yeah, the reason the furnace made sense to me, or that he was trying to survive in the furnaces that if he couldn't escape from the house, that would be the safest place because it was the middle of August and the furnace wasn't on, so it would have conceivably protected him, or else they would have turned into that that bronze bowl torture thing, you know, the bronze bowl that you put a human being in then light a fire under

the bull the bowl. Remember that sounds like a pretty horrible way to die either way. Yes, it should be restated that Julian Carlton drank what he thought was a lethal dose of hydrochloric acid, Like that's how he chose to try to end his life. Yeah, so there was never any motive really rooted out. Um Uh. Clearly, looking back now, he suffered from some kind of mental illness. I don't think you can just all chalk it up to a grudge over being fired because of his behavior

of their previous weeks and months. Um. And you know, it's just one of those things. It was a time where they weren't diagnosing things like that. So he clearly had some form of mental illness, I think. And uh, they never conclusively determined a motive. But like I said, his wife Um testified that said, you know, we were headed to Chicago, we were going to get work Um and he ended up dying. Uh. But he couldn't eat basically because he had torn up his stomach, lining in

his throat so badly with that hydrochloric acid. He died seven weeks later in jail from starvation. Yeah. And another interpretation I saw is that he Um had purposefully starved himself because the acid didn't work. That it wasn't just that he couldn't eat, but that he wouldn't eat, and that he he died from self imposed starvation. Either. One's pretty pretty terrible stuff. Just a brutal, brutal crime. Yeah,

And I mean, I agree with you. I think he clearly Um was mentally ill, not just from the act that he carried out, but also the the fact that he'd been ranting and sleeping with an ax for weeks leading up to it. But I think his perceived treatment or outright treatment around tally Essen coupled with the idea that they had been dismissed and that was going to be their last day. Um, is I guess what drove him over the edge. Yeah, so Frank you mentioned where

You've noticed we haven't mentioned him. He was in Chicago at the time. He was working, uh, kind of finalizing everything on the construction of Midway Gardens there in Chicago, working with his son, John Lloyd Wright, who is his second oldest and in the autobiography of John Wright called my father who was on earth, uh said he remembered an unnatural silence when the phone call came in, except for his father's labored breathing, and then he came back

in the room and said, he said, what's happened? Dad? And his father said, John, a taxi tali Essen is on fire, right, And if you're not too big on Frank Lloyd, right, you, um, you might be well, what

about the people who were murdered in his defense? He apparently hadn't learned about that yet, and he learned that there were some gruesome grizzly murders of a lot of people he cared about, Um, but from reporters who were shouting questions to him as he was going to the train station to take the train from Chicago over to

uh Spring Green. Yeah. So Chicago newspaper headline reads the end of lawless loves Um, you know, sort of a sort of a sensational and cold way to treat these murders, I think, Um, but they had been you know, they had been all over their affair for years now. And then chuck one other thing about Julian Carlton. Have you ever been on that site find a grave dot com? Yeah, okay,

so I was on fine grave dot com. Part of part of the purpose, for those who don't know, is like to kind of memorialize, like leave a tribute or something to to the person, the dead person. Um. And sometimes it's very sweet, but other times it's very awkward. And this was an awkward case because there was like a little icon clearly shows up on every page on Finding Grave, but it said, what's one thing you'll always

remember when you think of Julian? I'm like, probably the ax murder slash arson killing of seven people always remember he could really get a stain out of a rug right with gasoline. Yeah, very very good at that. You want to take a break, Yeah, let's take a break and we'll talk a little bit about Frank's later years. Right after this stuff you should know, h stuff you

should know. So this murder really uh and of course the fire really really took a toll on Frank Lloyd right, Um for the next you know, twenty years, he really struggled with his work. Um, he struggled for uh, for his freedom from the press obviously, I mean, he was always in the press, but this it was worse now than ever. And he did not suffer long. Romantically though, he took up very quickly, uh with a woman named maud Miriam Hicks Noel. She went by Miriam, and she

was an artist. She was a morphine addict. Um, she was a fan girl. She they had a terrible, terrible, abusive relationship. It seems like kind of both ways, like a bit of a Sid Nancy type thing, going from everything I could read. There were terrible people on both sides. Yeah. So they he met when she was very young. She said he hadn't been with me ten minutes before. He

said your mine. And they had a tenure courtship that was very very dysfunctional, very mis bull And when he got divorced in nineteen twenty two from Kitty, uh, he decided at some point to marry I think about a year later, to marry Miriam with that old mistake, thinking things would be different once they get married. And that's not at all how it went. They ended up splitting up I think six months later, something like that. Um. He said that to oppose her now in the slightest

degree meant violence. That's how how bad the relationship had become. Um. So it was. I get the impression from this. Uh this biographer Paul Hendrickson. The book he wrote, by the way, is called Dreams and Furies of Frank Lloyd Wright. UM. And it's like six hundred pages. I believe, um. But he he does not paint a very flattering picture of Miriam at all. No, no, not at all. Um. And like I said, they were not good for each other.

It seems like uh Nino, after his divorce from Miriam, he gets married a third time, him to uh old Ivanna. Her name was Olga Lazovic Hinzenburg. She was married, She was a dancer. They met at a ballet where she was performing, and they actually had another kid. Frank had a seventh child with her, um, a little girl in n And Miriam comes back there and kind of tries to wreck their marriage too. Yeah. She like when they had their baby, she showed up at the hospital and

made a scene, which is a pretty nasty move. Um. She refused to give him a divorce. She like would talk to the papers about him. Um. She she uh teamed up with Olga's ex husband or soon to be ex husband. Um. She she definitely worked against him, but I guess eventually either got bored or was bought off, or just kind of went away, because from what I can tell, Olga and Frank managed to carve out a happy married life for themselves. Um. From the nineteen twenties, Yeah,

ninety four when they got married onward. I guess by the time once Miriam left the picture, they were able to kind of settle in until Frank's death in nineteen fifty nine. Yeah, and Miriam actually got him arrested at one point under the Man Act m A n N. Which was a law federal law that prohibits transport of women and children across state lines for the purposes of debauchery or prostitution. And I'm not really sure how that happened. Um,

it did not stick, obviously. He spent a couple of nights in jail and then his the charges were dropped, but he went into a long dry spell work wise. Um did not get hired a ton over a certain period of time, and then from the thirties to fifty nine when he died, he did some of his best work,

maybe perhaps of his career. Absolutely, Um. He it was during that time he did tali Us in West, which, like I said, you mean and I went to we went out to s Dotsdale, Um, and uh visited with our friends Blair and Aaron out there, who are Scottsdale peeps. And we went to tally Esen and it was just Chuck, dude, have you been to that one? Haven't been to Taliessen West? Now. It's it's really really cool, just the little just so many details about it and there's a lot of fountains,

which is really refreshing in the desert. Um. It's just a really great, neat little place for sure, and a little I used that in the absolute wrong way. It's a. It's pretty big, it's a it's a very it's a charming place for sure. Yeah. And of course he did the Google him after that. Um. Yeah, so it was

very productive period of his life. Um. Maybe should we do more in Frank Loord Right in the future as this it No, no, we'll we'll do the in true stuff you should know style and just chip away at different parts about his life and then do a full biography on him years down the road. Sounds good. I thought of another place I went a Frank Lord Ripe. There's a Florida Southern College or university I'm sorry, is um Frankloyd Right Design campus. It's amazing. You have to

check that out too. You should check it out. There's like this really great covered walkway that you walk around everywhere, and it's just it's it's really neat. You just feel immersed in Frankloyd Right. It's not just you know, one building or one house, it's a whole whole campus. I love it. If you want to know more about franklod Right and just go out after the pandemic ends and start visiting some of his houses. And since I said after the pandemic ends, uh, let's optimistically go on too.

Listener mail. No, no, sir, no listener mail today. I think today we should take a little bit of an opportunity to talk for a few minutes about our book. Everyone's been really patient while we've plugged the pre sale of this book. I think by the time this comes out, the book will be out. Is that right? Uh? Afterbably? Yeah,

Jerry can make it so, I think it is. But if not, it's it's just before And uh, I finally got the books delivered to my house in hardcover edition and I got to hold it in my hand as have you, and dude, it's great. I'm really I'm really proud of the work that we did, along with Flat

Iron or co writer Nils, who's just an amazing dude. Yes, our in our illustrator Carle Monardo, who did just an amazing job throughout the book of bringing like just passages that you didn't even think of just suddenly kind of came to life through our illustrations. Yeah, I mean, there's an illustration of Momo, there's an illustration of my daughter. They're nice little easter eggs in there. Uh. You know, we haven't talked a lot about the contents of the book.

There are, um, we had a lot of fun with the with the notes at the bottom, the footnotes. It's really became kind of a fun part of the book. We mentioned I don't even have a lost count how many podcasts we mentioned, but we've notaate those in the end. Yeah, and there were plenty that we we missed, Like I did another like I shouldn't have done this, but I did another like um like fine tooth comb, like just

scrape through of every word in the book. Of course you did um to see you know what what podcasts we needed to link to. And I was like, oh man, I found like fifty of these so far. And I emailed and was like, is it too late to add footnotes or podcast footnotes? And nearly kiss that time has come so edition, Yeah, yeah, exactly can we get these reprinted? But I have the number here. Actually we have listed in the book. We are referenced in the book. We

have two d seventy four references to other podcasts. But here's a few of the chapters. We did. One on Murphy Beds, one on back masking, one on aging um, one on donuts. That's a great chapter. I love that chapter, what else, Kama Kaze, Demolition, Derby's it's like stuff you should know in book form. Is definitely And as we've said, like none of these are just like an entire podcast.

It's more like, you know, we took maybe the history of something or you know, one just one aspect of one of the things and kind of dove into it and flesh it out like that. So hopefully we'll be able to turn these into full size, like podcast episodes one day. That's kind of our intent. But even if we don't, I think the book like really covers them in an enjoyable way. Totally. Jack Caborcian, that was a good one too, Keeping up with the Joneses. That's one

of my favorite ones. Yeah. Yeah, there's like twenty seven just amazing chapters in there. Each one is better than the last, and then astoundingly it starts back over and somehow chapter one is better than chapter twenty seven. But you know, if you haven't bought it yet, I highly encourage you to. It makes a great gift. Um, even if the person doesn't even know who we are. It's it's in the great tradition, I think of the great

bathroom readers. You can pick it up at any point in the book and read any chapter and it's and it's just a lot of fun. My daughter even likes it because the pictures and she loves looking at the back and going, there's you and Josh. I know, it's very cute. It is cute. So one other thing I want to say is like, we really appreciate you guys who have already pre ordered the book or who will buy the book, who bought the audio book, Um, that's

available to um. But if you can't, if you're like I just don't have the money right now, or I don't feel like spending the money, I just like the podcast, that's fine too. Like we're not mad at you, UM, but we appreciate the people who have supported us by buying the book. UM. So thank you very much to everybody who has or will buy our book, because that's that's very kind of you and it means a lot to us. And you can look forward to a kid's

version coming soon. Yes, right, yeah, eventually we're taking the same twenty seven chapters and kidifying it but without being patronizing. So that'll swear books right now. We're taking the swear words out the chapter I'm ascal didn't make the cut in the kid's book. And um, I think, I mean, I think this book is appropriate for kids as young as like probably twelve years old. It's not like it's

it's not like it's dirty or anything. It's um it might just be a little advanced for younger kids, but we're gonna we're gonna make sure that the younger kids have their version too. Yes, it will make every twelve year old who reads our our the adult book really want mescal. So anyway, thanks to everyone who's bought. It's called Stuff you Should Know, an incomplete compendium of mostly interesting things. You can get it wherever books are sold.

Of course, we encourage you to buy from independent bookstores if you can, to try and keep them in business. Yep, for sure. Um I guess that's it. Huh, that's it. Okay, Well, thanks everybody for hearing us out about our book spiel and if you bought the book or the audiobook, thank you. If you can't get we love you anyway. Um so don't worry about it. And if you want to get in touch with us, you can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff You

should know. It is a production i art Radio. For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. M hm hm