The Skinny on Probiotics

printed something for me. No, no, no, I thought that was great. I thought it was pretty fun. Yeah, you know what, I'm looking forward to. What are Christmas episode? In our Halloween episode? Because those two no one can complain about. There are no sides to be taken. Oh, you guys seem to favor Christmas in the Christmas episode. You're a very new true about it. Yeah, those are definitely we love those episodes. We do or like anything on like Plato or Spammer or we didn't do Plato yet,

did we. No, it's in the queue. Yeah, it's coming. Yeah, it's supposedly very neat stuff. That's right. I was deprived as a child that was not allowed to play with toys. But I just sit in a room quietly for the first twelve years of my life. A little Albert I wish. Yeah, yeah, at least he got to be exposed to rabbits and stuff like that. Speaking of you know, I did a video on little Albert. Oh yeah, don't be dumb. No on psychology is nuts? Okay. Oh and speaking of video,

what a perfect segue. We have a new video series out called Studio Show Notes. And if you've ever wanted to get inside the studio with this, this is the best way to do it. Yeah. That or win a contest. Yeah, we like bring the cameras in here, and we talk about like some newsy things. It's usually a news item that relates to a past show or if there's an update or a correction. And it's short and sweet and uh, that's short. It's cool. No, it's sweet. It's tangy. Yeah,

short and tangy. Yeah, it's good. Yes. So the Studio Show Notes. Yeah, And you can go to our YouTube channel search Josh and Chuck and YouTube. Check those out and don't be done. We've got some good videos going lately and psychology is nuts, right, thanks man? Yeah, so now onto probiotics, Chuck, Yes, you remember when we went to Guatemala. Yeah, you and Jerry both took probiotics. I think I had a timed into it. I did, and it did nothing to help you. There was a Jerry

which one if you got sick? Oh, I did, yes, because of the ice and the rum drinks. Think. I closed my mouth in the shower, did everything right all week, and that last night I went crazy at a dance club and drank ice y with alcohol. Man, that's crazy. Yeah, I wouldn't trade it though. That was like one of the best nights. How long are you sick for? I don't remember, but I had what do they call it? The gut? Chuck late, that's so gross? Is so gross?

That's so gross. It tore me up. Luckily it was after I'd gotten back home because I could not imagine. I remember thinking at the time, Man, if I was in Guatemala suffering through this right now, I would be miserable. Yeah, because I'd be missing out on the trip from our friends at at the Cooperative for Education co ed dot org. The question remains, thought, Well, no, I know you took probiotics, but the question remains, like, did it help you? Did

it shorten the duration of your travelers diarrhea? Have no idea what someone called? No, you don't. No one knows because probiotics, although very intuitive, isn't backed up with science. Not not yet. Yeah, a little bit. Uh, and we'll we'll get to findings. But um, yeah, I don't want to spoil it yet. We'll get to that later. No, but again, it's extremely intuitive. It makes a lot of sense.

Probiotics means for life or good life in favor of life. Yeah. Um, it's the idea and the practice of taking bacteria that's been proven or suggested to be beneficial to the health of our guts um and ingesting it like either in a pill form or in certain types of food. Yeah. Northern Europe and Japan have been big on this for

a while. Yeah. As a matter of fact, the whole concept of eating bacteria to improve health rather than contracting disease comes from Europe, comes from Central Europe or Eastern Europe. There's a Nobel Prize winner and his name was Eli. Uh what is it nice um? And mansh Nikov said Russian. Yeah,

but he was studying Bulgarians. He was studying the longevity of Bulgarian peasants, and Bulgarian peasants were known to eat a fermented milk product called caelo mil yaco, which is sheep's milk yogurt, known colloquially here in the US is Bulgarian sour milk, and it's a fermented milk product. Sounds it does, but all that, it's pretty tasty. It's probably like keffer. I've never had that either. It's not bad. It's like it's like a much more liquid e Greek yogurt. Okay.

I definitely though if if I had a hot day working in the yard and then it's about some Bulgarian sour milk it's room temperature, yeah no, you would not want to do that. But after a m you just eat it. Okay, your Bulgarian, your balky bartacamus now and you are living forever because you've been eating Bulgarian sour

milk for your whole life. So minch Nikof was studying this at the beginning of the twentieth century, and in around nine I think around ninety seven he published this whole idea like wait a minute, I figured it out. There is a fermented or fermenting bacteria called lacto bacillus that basically produces lactic acid during the fermentation process, and it's in this food stuff, and if you eat this food stuff, you will gain health benefits from it. And

everybody was like, shut up, you crazy Russian. You're probably friends with rescipute or something, and we're not going to listen to you. But it turns out he was totally right. Well, yeah, I think he was like, these are Bulgarian peasants. They should not be this healthy, you know, because they don't have all the benefits of living in a different place and having a lot of wealth. Now, and you saw perfect strangers like BALKI was not risk averse, accident prone.

There are a lot of reasons you shouldn't have been alive, see Bulgarian. I think. So I didn't watch it? What I didn't watch it? I know the show, but I didn't watch it. You should go back and watch it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, cut show. I like the dude and the other guy too. Yeah. I don't know why I didn't watch it becausin what year was that? Yeah, mid late eighties, like eighties, seven eighty eight. I was watching Moonlighting. You could have watched them both. I don't think they were on in different

time slots. You remember the time slot, dude, the one where they have to move a piano upstairs. Classic it is. It's great TV. But I guess did they get it all the way to the top and it rolled back on somebody? I think that happened in the middle oh man. Yeah. So anyway, Um, Mitchtikov publishes his findings, they go largely

ignored and um. Around the same time, actually, a few years before, there was a Frenchman named ri ti A and in he started studying the poop of healthy breastfed infants and he noticed that the healthiest ones all had something called what he called bifido bacterium. So why shape Graham negative bacteria? And uh he said, you know what, I think this is linked to health. And again no one listened to him because at the time it was like, we're all happy with germ theory. Yeah that sounds that

was probably like magic. This flies in the face of germ theories, like, yeah, we agree, there's little tiny things around, but they're trying to kill us. They're not making us healthier. Well, these two guys said, yes they are, and they provided the basis for probiotics, which still today. The two types of probiotics, the two genera of probiotics that are UM that are viewed as beneficial are lack of basilus and bacteria. Yeah, it's crazy that they were onto this way back then

and now it's becoming a very trendy thing. And uh, if you go to buy a supplement, they say to look for like at least so many billion of those two strains. One billion is the minimum amount, but they recommend much more than that, Like Emily takes ones. It's like fifteen billion. Because and we'll get into this too, you can't necessarily count on all those fifteen billion being alive by the time they hit your intestines, I know, but we'll get to that. Although it's sort of just

so let's let's talk about UM probiotics in general. Like the World Health Organization, like you said, Europe and Japan have been hip to the probiotics for a while UM and the World Health Organization created a definition that's just out of this world. Live microorganisms, which, when administered in adequate amounts, confer a health benefit on the host. That sounds on the host to say the person, right and

live organisms like you could that could be possums. Yeah, but the need of possums that doesn't confer health in a bit, Well, there's only one way to find out if it does or not. Yeah, yeah, haven't tried it. And like we said these days, um, it's in a lot of food products. Um, A lot of people are on the supplement plan though, just to take him in a capsule form, right, But when you add something like a probiotic to food, you create what's called in the

industry a functional food. And there's a bit of problem with functional foods in that they have made a lot of claims because they're not regulated by the f d A. Uh, and so they can say certain things they can't say other things. And like, um, I guess we can go ahead and say because it's public news. Dan and who made Activia. Um, we all saw the commercials with Jamie

Lee Curtis. Just one serving will make your regular. Um. I even worked on a photo shoot for I just remembered that now with her for Activita for Activia way back in the day. And uh, she got mad because the PA was taking pictures of her like mad, mad she wasn't very nice about it. What did she say? Um, well, I was just doing that p A thing where you know, there's a scene he's try and get close and listen. Were you the one who was taking pictures? No, no, no, no,

not my friend was um. And it was on the beach, and I just remember him taking pictures in her like. She didn't smash his camera. She didn't show him penna, but she had it smashed. No, no, no, she had it. Um. She had the film taken from him though this is pretty digital. Oh well, yeah, I just remember that. I'm not knocking Jamie Lee Curtis. No. I mean, you know, it's like the paparazzi following me all the way. You can't even get away from it on a film smashed

the camera. Um. But danon Um did get into trouble because they overstated the effects. And while they're not under the f d A, the FDC got involved and said the Federal Trade Commission and called them out and they had to stop making those claims of regularity. Um. They had to stop making claims that it prevented cold and flu. Yeah, and they had to pay out one million dollars to thirty nine state attorney generals, which I don't I guess

those are fines. I couldn't get exactly how they're settlements. They were sued, well, I don't think they were sued. Yeah, it turned by the way attorneys general. Yeah, sorry, it was William Stapphire's ghosts going through me. But um, they they sue like they get together and say hey, like, I guess I just thought they were fine. Well, either way, they had to pay out money, and they had to stop overstating these things and go to more generalized claims,

which they paid out twenty one million. You say, yeah, I mean that it may have ended up being more than that. Even that's not too bad because the first year that activity was out, according to this article, it made a hundred million dollars in sales. Twenty one million here chairs, But the point is if activity it could make a hundred million dollars in sales. It's a yogurt. Everybody a hundred million dollars in sales in the US, and it's a yogurt. It show It's like, wow, people

really want this, they want probiotics. They believe in it. But we find after looking into it, like, well, there everybody like, yes, it makes sense, we know it makes sense, and yes, yogurt can be delicious, but we also know yogurt is good for you. Yeah, and and but we've got to get to the science of all this, and we will get to the science of this right after this.

Everybody so chuck. Everybody's really hot and heavy to buy activity, to take probiotics supplements, like everyone wants us to work because the idea of friendly little bacteria getting into our tommi's and you know, tickling everything just right to make everything go well, you know, especially like if you can't poop or something like that, or if you're pooping a lot, right then then this idea very much appeals to you.

Eat some yogurt, feel better. That sounds great. That's like what food ideally is supposed to do is to make you feel better, not give you diabetes and a few from standing up from the couch. You know, it's supposed to like make you jump on the beach and have someone's camera broken when they take pictures. It's supposed to make you poop. Like that's what food is supposed to do. And I think that's why Activita sold as much as it did and that's why people want this stuff to work.

But like I said, we have to get into the science of it, and the science is there in some cases, but not nearly as far as it's being stretched at this point. Yeah. I went to the Harvard uh et U site to look at the skinny on what they found in right now in they can pretty much say with great confidence through study scientific study that, uh, it can help your bowel situation. It can reduce diarrhea. Hey man,

your bow sitch. It can help you maybe if you have IBS or if you have taken antibiotics that give you diarrhea because they give me diarrhea like crazy. Um, they've they've pretty much sussed that out with studies. Yes, all those are backed up with study. Yeah, um, so it'll it can help you. If you have intestinal issues, it can help you. Um. There are other intestinal issues that it's being touted to be able to help, like

Crohn's disease. Jury is still out on that, even though a lot of people are like, yeah, probiotics can help and that would make sense intuitively because the beneficial probiotics like um Bifidobacterium and Lactobacillus um supposedly cut down on inflammation and an inflammation response, and that's what Crohn's disease is. UM and they they supposedly also can help with everything

from vaginal infections UM to allergies, childhood allergies. All of these claims are being made about probiotics and again, intuitively they may help, they could consumably help, but the science is not. They're backing it up. And that's not to say that the science is saying no this, We've we've shown that this doesn't have an effect. It's at the point where these studies are just now beginning to be carried out, so a body of study on them is starting to now be a massed in the United States

at least. Yeah. Um, it's a difficult thing to study because you have to study feces uh and um. I think Molly wrote this. She pointed out a good point. Even if you do study feces, and even if you do find that a certain amount of bacteria has made it all the way through into your feces, um, you don't necessarily know what exactly it did, right, I mean, it has reported findings like I felt better or I

didn't have diarrhea as long this time. I took any bodys and there's a lot of dispute also over what constitutes an effective dose. And when you're talking about probiotics, what you're taking are called all any forming units cf US, and these are viable bacteria that can reproduce and spread

and colonize your colon. Right. So this panel of UM I guess, probiotic experts academics got together and I think Florida in October of two thousand thirteen and said, we've studied all the literature, We've done some meta analysis, and this is what we've concluded, and they recommend that you take no less than one billion colony forming units c f US, so it's tend to the ninth power. And like you said, Emily takes them that are like fifteen

billion colony forming units UM. And that they also said that we need to study more particular species and strains, because if you say Biffeto Bacterium or Lacto bacillus, you're talking about an entire genera of bacteria, not even like a strain or species, a genera, right, And you you can't say, oh, Biffeto Bacterium is good for uh crones. That's like saying red pills make you healthy? Like what what what type of red pills and what do the

red pills specifically do. So, thanks to the Human Microbiome Project, which we've talked about before in the episode, we're starting to get a clearer picture of what constitutes a healthy gut in an average person depending on your genetic makeup, right, and what constitutes an unhealthy gut. And once we start to understand what a healthy gut looks more like, we can kind of enrich that environment and maybe add more

bacteria to the beneficial bacteria probiotic list. Yeah, there's a researcher um at the University of Colorado School of Medicine that says that there's just a misconception out there that you're just reseting your good bacteria that's missing. She her basic point is is there's a lot of over generalization

going on, like you were talking about with the red pill. Um. She thinks there's a lot of potential in the future and that it could end up doing a lot of this, But the notion of you know, you're receding your bacteria and it's good for you and that's all you need to know, it's just a big oversimplification of what's going on because everyone's different and like you said, the different strains and h what's good for one person might not

be as good for another. It's like super specific. But the two the two genera biffido Bacterium and UM Lactobacillus have been shown to the reason they're considered probiotics is because they are not necessarily going in and recolonizing your your gut, like those things are present, but again, you're the the healthy microbiome we're starting to understand is just this huge grab bag that can change from person to person,

from UM race to race basically UM. But those two specifically, those two genera specific have effects on things like your immune system, like they spur the production of immunoglobin A or UM beta defense in which are both they they're they're both immune proteins that go after pathogens, so they

help with your immune system. These two things do specifically, Yeah, that's what you you want to look for those two, and those are the two main players anyway, Like if you're going to get a probiotic, you're probably gonna find those. But not coincidentally, those are also the ones that were discovered a hundreds something years ago and have been studied

in one form of fashion ever since. So as we start to come across more potentially good bacteria from the Human Microbiome Project, they will be studied in um more detail and we'll get a better idea of this particular strain, of this species of this genera is probably good for this, right. Yeah. And then there's the whole thing of prebiotics, which we

should talk about right for this. Okay, So you're in the store and you want to get something good for your gut because you've been pooping, you have a diarrhea, and you just got general trouble with your stomach. Place forever, place forever. Uh. You go in and you see probiotics and you think, hey, I've heard of those on the news. There Jamie Nae Curtis is dancing on the beach um coating herself with yogurt and she's doing great. And but this pre biotic, what in the world is that that

is not the same prebiotics spurs this growth. It's these bacteria. It's like food for probiotics. Yeah. Instead of a probiotic, which is the actual bacteria you're ingesting, probiotics will help them grow Yeah, you're giving it a nourishing environment to grow in, and you can take them both at the same time. Yeah, there's something called symbiotics, which is prebiotic and the probiotics. So it's the food and the thing

that eats the food all mixed together. And things like yogurt, kefir, kimchi, miso, sour kraut, fermented foods like that, they have it naturally. Those are symbiotics. They have both and and probe prebiotics. It's kind of just fiber in a lot of cases, dietary fiber that they like to eat and ferment. Al Right, Well, we talked earlier about Um, you don't know exactly how

much you're getting in some of these foods. Um, that's a problem because you don't know if you don't know what dosage you need, you don't know how much is six Because these things are you know, that's why there's fifteen billion of them in a tiny little pill. They die very easily and through packaging and chipping. Uh, you don't know how much you're gonna be getting in the end. Yeah, if you're if not in the end, you know what

I mean? Well, you know, like if you look if you go into a health of food store or something, right, and they have probiotics. They might have some of that are refrigerated, but then they have some on the shelf. Like what's the difference. Well, the ones on the shelf

have undergone a process of freeze drying. They're basically in cryonic suspendure suspended animation right then, and it protects them being in that state like basically, and it protects them from exposure to um when they're if they're exposed to heat or cold or um moisture, all they're not moisture. Once they're exposed the moisture, they come back and they're

they're in trouble unless they're in your tomic. But so those those have been free stright, the ones that are in the refrigerator are likely not freeze right, and they're much more fragile. Yeah, that's what Emily's are refrigerated and expensive. Well, yeah, because it costs a lot more to take care of them to keep them in a state of um life

so that they can have an effect. The problem is when you buy those at the store, you have no idea of what you're buying is the real deal or not, because like you said, the f d A isn't regulating this, Uh true, But there you can do a little research and find out, like, you know, I don't think there's a ton of snake oil out there, is there? Well, so I read this article from consumer lab dot com. Was it called snake oil as proa No, it was.

It was basically it was saying like in two thousand nine, they did a random sample of probiotics on the market, didn't have the advertised amount of bacteria and because they had died off some for whatever reason. Yeah, because that's the thing, like, let's say I sell you a bunch of bacteria and you're gonna put them into pills, but you don't. You know, man, I got some poto back to how much? What do you what do you want?

How much? We'll talk later. I'll give you a good deal, all right, So but you you don't invest and let it not be like that last batch. This one's this one's even cool. I had him died neon green for you. All right, you can do something with that um but they have like vacuum machines that you you deal with this this bacteria and put into pillform or whatever. Let's say you don't invest in that. You just run it

through a regular pill machine, all the bacteria dies. Even if you know that stead, you can still slap that in and be like, there's fifty billion cf us in each pill. Pill get it, come get it. Knowing they're dead, nothing's going to happen to you. You're not running a foul of the FDA so long as you're not saying, and this stuff can cure your crowns disease, because all the FDA is concerned with is your claims to what your product can do, not whether that's stuff's in there. Yeah,

I will say this. I often find myself buying them for her because I'm errand boy. At the health food store, they have very boring labels. They look more like medicine and they say, you know, fifteen thousand or fifteen billion. Sorry, wo uh, it's all listened on the label. I went to get her recently, I was at a big chain grocery store and she said, Hey, I'm out, just see

what they have there. And I knew what they wouldn't have the stuff that the health food store had, but I perused and what you find in the grocery store are major brands selling what to me, looks like a bunch of bs for sure. I mean, why not if every if a hundred million, if people want to buy a hundred million dollars with of Activita, and you're you're a supplement manufacturer, why wouldn't you get in on that. You already know the ins and outs of the federal

regulations here sucker by this, Yeah, that's the problem. Like and even with the good stuff that you trust that the health food store, it's not necessarily snake oil. It is probably made in earnest um. But the key is it may have undergone like the refrigerator truck maybe broke down on the way and the whole batch was ruined. They're still gonna sell it, and they'll still there's no no repercussion, and you will have no idea whether it's

effective or not. That's why we need probiotics probably do work, but we have to figure out how to how much is the right amount, and how to deliver that amount in a way that is going to basically stay effective throughout the production and transportation and distribution segments, some kind of regulations, and then when it hits your stomach, it's gonna survive your stomach and then dissolving your gut, which is what's supposed to happen. So we're just not quite

there yet. But that doesn't mean that they're those probiotics that you trust don't actually work. They very well may work. Yeah, And the consensus that everyone agrees on is you're not gonna you're not gonna hurt yourself by taking probiotics. Right there. There have been studies that have shown like, if you're a healthy person, it may not do anything for you, but it's probably not going to hurt you. But there

was one big exception with pancreatitis. In this article, Um, there's a study that's cited to where a group of people who have pancreatitisents with pancreatitis. Some received probiotics, others received a placebo. And even with everything else being equal, all things being equal, the people who are taking probiotics, twenty four of them died, which is twice the number of the death in the placebo group, which is just weird.

That is weird. And then also, if you have a lowered or compromised immune system, you probably should avoid probiotics. Is the other warning that I came across. I've also seen that it could possibly maybe help with not getting cancer, but you shouldn't take them if you're getting cancer treatment. But I don't know if that's right on either. I

haven't heard that one. Uh. Some Canadians have researched UM and they think and see, this is still the wild West, like we said, like there's so many claims that they think might like in ten years, this would be a completely different show. But researchers in Canada have linked UH supplement it's too lower levels of anxiety, UM and stress and UH. This past December, the British Journal of Nutrition found that women supplementing their diet UM we're more likely

to lose weight compared to the placebo. Again, like there's that that just could be correlation to you never know, but it makes sense because there's that mind gut connection where like the vast majority of our serotonin is produced in our gut and travels up to our brains. Yeah, well that's what they're the Canadians are thinking exactly that. As far as stress reduction, they're thinking that's a two way street there. So what do you do in the meantime by the yogurt and just take a bath in it.

That's that's one thing you can do, UM if you have some especially if you have some sort of gut related disease or condition. UM, find peer viewed academic articles on what probiotics may or may not work for that condition, and then try that. Go find the best ones you can find are the ones that you trust the most. UM And the National Institutes of Health actually has a pretty open minded UM probiotics page. Several probiotics page, but UM, at least the one I lacked to Basilus gives recommended

doses for different UM I guess bowel conditions. Yeah, I bet you there's It's probably not the hardest thing to get some funding for studying this stuff right now. Yeah, it's probably a good time to be in that research. The microbiome is so hot right now. Yeah, they're doing I mean, they're testing all kinds of things that the lady from Colorado said that, Um, they've done studies and rodents that suggests that certain microbes might mitigate a high

fat diet. So maybe it could help treat obesity, who knows? Who knows? This is when we should definitely follow up on with studio show notes. Oh we will man in a year, Okay, if we're still doing that show, we are, by god, you got it? Yeah, I got nothing else. Um, they won't hurt you. They could help give it a try. Although again, if you have pancreatitus, look into it. And again I suggest to not if you really want to see if it works, go to the nutrition health food store.

Spend a little money on the real deal. Don't buy the little box at your grocery store that has like if it has a lot of pictures of people smiling and things. I say, no, okay, why is words from chuck? Uh? If you want to know more about probiotics, you can type that word in the search part how stuff works dot com. And since I said search part, it's time for a listener mail. Uh. This is an archaeologist wrote in to say we did a good job. Guys. I'm

so relieved my faith is maintained. Always knew. Um, you weren't experts, but you do do a lot of research, and so I take things you say with a pinch of salt. But you were really spot on with my field of expertise with archaeology. Um, and I'm gonna trust you more from now on. Since university I've done digs the Viking Age and York, the Talayokic Bronze Age and Majorca, and the Hellenic Byzantine period in Georgia. Um, so he's

done a lot of digs. He's touting his dicks. I've encountered many different archaeological methods and from now and I think I'll refer to them, refer them to your podcast. Um though you only use the example of excavating by meter square holes, which always causes a single tear to roll down my cheek. An entire site is when an entire site is done like that. You also mentioned the B word brush, which must never be spoken of, let alone used on a dig. It smears what you're excavating.

It makes it hard to see. So apparently they don't brush. Maybe I bet it's air, canned air or something. Yeah, exactly. Movies get it wrong then, because everyone uses a brush in the movies. Everybody knows that maybe this guy is

getting it wrong over movies. Over All, those guys that give you nine out of ten, you've covered all the important bits like uni uniformitarianism, the conflict between civil engineers and archaeologists at a development, the legal antiquities, and the thorny issue of returning artifacts to their country of origin. Was that repatriation? Um, you even got the Nazis in there. I can't tell you about Arians or North Germanic people's because I'm hardly an expert and don't want to muddy

the waters. But one of my lecturers told us that the first non combat unit into Stalingrad in the Second World War were the s s archaeologists. They were digging a Bronze age burial mound and earshot of the siege guns. So that is all the best from will Um, the archaeologist in Sussex, England and not a fan of brush. I'm sorry, he says, Sussex UK. Yeah, he just starts

to bullet there. That was close. Thanks a lot. Will we pre ship that We're glad we gained your trust or it was fortified by archaeology episode which I think both of us liked. Uh. If you want to let us know how we regained your trust or gained it or it was fortified or whatever, who cares, Just let us know whatever you want to let us know. You can tweet to us at s Y s K podcast.

You can join us on Facebook dot com slash stuff you should know and as always send us an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com, and as always, join us at our home on the web, Stuff you Should Know dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, is it how stuff Works dot com.