The Appalachian Trail: A Heckuva Hike

All right? What are you um? You're like, I don't know what he eats a starfish. I'll be jellyfish. Jellyfish, okay, and Jerry will be sunfish. Uh so our little sunfish. Yeah. And it will make sense as long as we hike together. But if one of us gets ahead of the other behind the other, then it'll just seem weird. Finally, we're

talking about the appalach and trail. Boy. We've been asked many, many, many many times over the years to cover this by generally by through hikers that like, I'm listening to your show as I hike from Georgia to Maine, and uh, we're finally getting down to it. Mm hmm, it is about time for sure. In a big thank you to Dave Rus for helping us with this one. I don't believe he ever threw hike the A T, which makes this even more impressive all the info he came up with,

you ever hiked any any of the eight? I think I accidentally did and maybe Unicoise State Park and didn't realize that's what I was doing. Um, I had no idea I was on the A T. But now I had a friend, um named Mitch who I went to high school with, not dirty Mitch from this Gabies episode of different Mitch and a few years sure, I don't

know about that, but still um medium Sure. A few years after high school he he threw hiked the A T. And he was the first and I think maybe the only person I know who has uh my ends older brother hiked the A T with his dog, his sort of regular Doughey black lab, and Dude, that dog came back ripped back like a black lab that was built

like a pit bull. Yeah. I can imagine. Because one of the most physically demanding things you can do is through hike the Appalachian Trail, and through hike means that you hike the whole two thousand, one hundred and ninety four point three miles from Georgia to Maine or Maine to Georgia in one straight shot, usually averaging about four

to five to six months to do it. That's right, well, not necessarily in one straight shot, as we'll see, because you can do it in leap frogate and do it in chunks, and I think it all counts as long as you do it within the same year. But for me, and I used to want to do this, I had a big, gigantic A T poster that hung on my walls for many, many years, and my time has passed to do this. But I think my new goal is

I would like to hike the entire Georgia portion. Okay, at some point I have hiked portions of it in Georgia, but uh, when I wanted to hike the A T. I was always of the mindset and not that there's any right or wrong way to do it, but I wanted to do it just all in one go, and not do it in chunks, and just start out at Springer Mountain in Georgia and end up with some mountain

in Maine. Canadain. That's right. Yeah, that's a through hike for sure, and that's the that's you would be a nobo, like you said, going from yeah, from Georgia to Maine. If you went from Maine to Georgia, which is again another way you can do it, you'd be a sobo for southbound. But the thing is chucked. I think three million people hike on the a T every year, some little segment or portion. They're called section hikers. Anyone who doesn't hike the whole thing in one shot as a

section hiker. But of those three million people, just a few are several thousand people try it, try through hiking every year, and only one and four of them is successful because it's so hard to do. Yeah. It is the longest hike only footpath in the world. Uh. There are longer trails for sure. Uh. And at some point we might do one on the Great Specific Rest Trail. But um, you can take pack mules and horses on

the PCT. Uh, you are not allowed to. You can only take your body and your own feet on the Appalachian Trail. Yeah. Whereas Dave puts it on the a T, the pack animal, as you that's a great line. That's very yakov SnO. So in addition to it just being really really long, Chuck, there's a lot of ups and downs. There's a lot of crazy terrain. There's a lot of dangers that will see. But those ups and downs amount to over that whole distance, four hundred and sixty four thousand,

five of hundred feet of elevation gain and loss. And Mount Everest is about twenty nine thousand feet, So if you started at sea level and walked up and down Everest, you'd have to do that eight times to equal that amount of elevation gain or loss that you're gonna walk along the Appalachian Trail in that one straight shot. That's right. Uh. That is not to say I mean those are apples to oranges, but that just puts it into perspective a lot of a lot of mountains you're hiking up and down.

I never claimed they were both apples, No, No, I know, I just don't, like, I don't want people that have climbed Everest to be like, dude, you can't even compare the two. That's such a good Everest climber impression. Almost stood up there, bro Um. All right, so let's talk

about this history wise. Uh. The original human being that thought this was a good idea was named Benton Mackay, who obviously was a hiker in the New England area and went to High of It, got a degree in forestry and worked as a land use planner and was hiking along in Vermont one day in the Green Mountains, climbed a big tree, looked out upon all the peaks, you know, those nice little rounded peaks of the Appalachian Mountains,

not like the Rocky Mountains. We've talked about that. Why, Uh, it's because of wind, and said, you know what, that's amazing. I've been trying to interlink trails in New England to make hikes longer. Is it even possible? Could we link a trail from Georgia to Maine all along this Appalachian Range? Yeah? And that's a great first thought. But then he had

plenty of successive follow up thoughts about that idea. UM. He wrote a paper called an Appalachian Trail, a Project in Regional Planning in n and UM he basically said, hey, in addition to this interconnected trail that forms one big trail along the Appalachians, we can also build shelter is for people hiking. We can build community camps, we can build farms that are run by labor unions and basically socialize the woods to give people a chance to get

away from the rest of the world. Yeah, it was like a really really grand plan and one that like super admirable I think, Yeah, for sure, I I admire it. And Yeah, the thing is is he was like, as Dave put it, he was the tree hugger who came up with this idea, and he definitely was, and he had a real vision for it. And people came along and said, that has a great idea. We're gonna really trim off this fat about socialism and labor unions and stuff, but the rest of it we really like. And McKay

was like, hey, what do you mean fat? And uh that that it just kind of got taken away from him from their well sort off. He still worked a lot with. Uh. This other guy who came along who we're going to talk about named Myron Avery, And this is how Dave put it. By all accounts, Myron Avery was a great a jerk. Here's the thing. Myron Avery was a lawyer, a maritime attorney, a big time hiker from Washington, d C. Who took charge of the project

in nineteen thirty and everything. I read up a lot about this guy, because anytime I see someone just kind of categorized as a big time jerk, I'm kind of curious because it's probably complicated, and it sounds like he was very stubborn and he was a perfectionist and he kind of just didn't want to listen to other people, Like he would go into a community and that they would have ideas like, hey, why don't you get the community on board with this and get some community support,

and he was like no, he was like, we should just make this trail and then they'll see the benefit. The locals will see the benefit and its value afterward, and all we need to do is just blaze forward, no pun intended as you'll see, and and just do

this thing. And it sounded like he was just really tenacious and he did burn bridges, and it sounds like he had a big ego and he may have been a bit of a jerk in a bully, but I think it's probably a little more complicated than to just say he was a big a hole, for sure, But he was enough of a whole Are we singing that now?

I mean I just did. Okay, So he was enough of one of those that he and mackay had a falling out and McKay stayed away from the Appalachian Trail Conservancy, which Myron Avery led until Myron Avery died at age fifty two of a heart attack. From being such a type a personality. Yeah, I mean they had they worked together for a while and then eventually couldn't sort of see eye to eye, so he backed out. Have you ever read the book A Walk in the Woods by Bill Bryson? No, but I'd like to chuck you will

love it. It's Did you read it? Oh? Yeah, it's It's one of those best in your late teens early twenties. But I think you would appreciate it no matter what your age. It's just a great book. And he's such a great writer, and his um, his Companion on the Trail, is just such a great like oil and comic relief. It is just a really good book. But in it he he described Myron Avery is blazing to two trails from Georgia to Maine. One was of hurt feelings and bruised egos. The other was the t uh well for

his stubborn efforts. Uh. The east peak of Bigelow Mountain and Maine is now called Avery Peak. Oh it's nice or a whole peak. Oh boy? So Avery did walk the Appalachian Trail. He mapped apparently every square inch of it because again he was in charge of it, and he was such a um, a pragmatic and totally driven visionary that um he got the A T completed in seven years and it opened to the public in ninety

seven because of him, that's right. Uh. And after it was completed, everyone was like, this thing is great, but is anyone ever gonna really? I know you link these trails, but is anyone even capable of hiking this whole thing? And we will let you know if that's possible, well, or at least who made that possible. Right after this and drum roll, Uh boy, your drum You need to change your drumhead, my friend, we need to work on our timing to Okay, what does that mean? I finished

my drum roll and you were still talking about my drumheads. Sorry, let's try it again. Look, No, that's great, it's really good. Uh. Yes, we know that we can complete the A T we're being coy. Many people have done it, but the very first time that it was done was but eleven years after it opened, and a man named Earl Schaefer, Pennsylvanian from York County World War two Vett who uh you know we what we called this now is PTSD by you know, back then they just you know, called it

suffering from war demons. But he clearly had some kind of PTSD and and was quoted as saying he wanted to walk the army out of his system and started at the time, it was not at Springer Mountain and Georgia at the time. It was Mount Oglethorpe in Georgia on April four, nineteen and didn't even have a tent. No, he had a poncho that he slept under, had paper maps, he had a compass. He was wearing Russell Moccasin Company's

bird Shooter boots and they still make those. Actually they're nice looking boots, but I would not like the t and them very expensive. They're like fours. But I believe they're so handmade that you can find like fingernail clippings in them. Yeah, that's handmade chuck. That is super handmade. So He did this in a hundred and twenty four days, the first guy to ever through hike the a T did it way above average of what people do today. Yeah, he was making about sixty miles a day on average.

So not only did he, you know, set the bar by being the first person to throw hike, he said a really high bar as far as records to break, Like that wasn't just something the second person was going to do better than you know, Yeah, for sure. His advice was carry as little as possible, but choose that little with care. Uh And everyone said duh and he went, shut up, I'm the first one to do it. I

get to have my my advice has given out. And he did it again just to prove himself in nineteen and was the first person to do it both ways in both directions, and then at almost eighty years old in the late nineties, he did it one more time. Yeah, and there's other other trail legends, but he was definitely the first. They called them crazy one Earl Schaefer and then original crazy one apparently. Yeah, I guess there was

somebody who was just as crazy who came along. Well, I'm sure a lot of people are like oh, I'm gonna be crazy one too. And then you know, yeah, you know it's steal his name. No, that's his trail name. So Charles. Um we said that the Appalachian Trail goes from um Georgia Springer Mountain to Mount cadad In in Maine, and as it as it winds from one place to the other, it goes through fourteen different states, some more than others. Virginia it goes for about five and fifty

plus miles. West Virginia, which is very jealous of Virginia

in this respect, only has eighteen miles of Appalachian Trail. Yeah, that's what I said to But if you add all these together, a couple hundred miles here, tens of miles here, Um, you have this whole mile trail, and on average it takes a through hiker about a hundred and sixty five days, which again this is today with modern amazing gear people average a hundred and sixty five days, And Earl Schaefer did it in a hundred and twenty four back in

nineteen eight with fingernail boots, right exactly. It just makes his accomplishment that much more amazing. Um. But one guy showed up Earl Schaefer like nobody's business, didn't he? Oh yeah. A trail runner named Joe McConaughey in average fifty miles a day to complete the eight and forty five days, twelve hours and fifteen minutes. I had my little blaze pun earlier. If you've ever hiked any portion of the

A t um you will know about the blazes. If you've never hiked the A t you may wonder, how do you know that you're still on the A T and you don't accidentally go off on another trail, which is possible. But it is marked with little blazes there. It's a rectangular piece of paint, piece of paint. It's a rectangular swash of paint, brushstroke of paint. Uh. And they're about I don't know, I feel like they're about

six by three inches or so. Uh. And they are on trees and rocks about every seventy feet or so. So it is a very very well marked, whale well trod trail. That's hard to say, So don't don't be afraid of getting lost. And there are plenty people on it. Uh. It is not to say you should go into it lightly or without any preparation, but it is. It's pretty easy to find your way along the A T. Yes,

it is. And you're gonna encounter plenty of people along a tube because remember three million people a year hike it to some extent. And again, there's thousands and thousands of people who are nobos or sobos trying to throw

hike at any given on any any given year. And because of the weather and the distance that you're covering, you're actually going through the A T in different seasons, so there's actually like certain windows, depending on which direction you're going north or south, um, where you can hike the A T. So all of those thousands of people are not spread out over a full year. They're actually kind of condensed in four or five or six month

periods on any given years. So you're definitely gonna have lots of companions on the trail, whether you like them or not. Yeah. Well, trail sex is a thing too, Yeah, I saw, it's not nearly as much as you would think. Yeah, I'm sure, Okay, I don't know. I mean I'm sure that these uh, these dirty hippies out there sweating it up for days at a time, don't mind knocking boots under the stars. But no, it's not the sexiest way to do things. I saw that that was saved for town.

Oh okay, like your your zero day, like you take a down day, maybe stay in a cheap hotel, take a shower, meet a friend, starfish meat and jellyfish meat, starfish right, and they have sunfish. Sure that this is something weird just happened. I'm glad we planned that out. Uh So, if you are a NOBO, you're gonna want to and if you want to hike the a t there are books out there that like, and websites and

and blogs that will tell you very specifically exactly. You can map it down to the day if you want, like day one, day two, um, or you can kind of do your own thing. But generally, if you're a NOBO, you're probably gonna want to start at Springer Mountain in the early spring and like March or April. So those first couple of months, those first few months, actually you're be hiking and pretty good weather h as far as it getting too hot, Uh, it will get elevation. You

can get snow still for sure. In March and April in North Carolina and Tennessee even parts of Georgia. So the disadvantage there is that you will have to pack some cold weather gear for your first five miles or so, which you can ditch in mail uh mail home at some point if you want, right, But you have a much longer stretch of time to finish your through hike than you do if you're going from Maine to Georgia

or southbound. UM. And because you have a much more limited window of about four to five months UM, you have to cover a lot of miles every day. So being a sobo, if you see a SABO on the trail, this is probably not their first hike. They're usually pretty experienced and can make it over some unforgiving terrain a lot faster than the average hiker, I would guess for sure.

And you talked about the amount of people hiking, there's something called the bubble, So early on in March and April, the nobo areas get pretty and when we say congested, it's not like you're surrounded about like hundreds of people, but it definitely thins out as you go. Yeah, but that's a real advantage to being a sobo is far

fewer people start north to south UM. So you're going to run into a lot less people at the time, and by the time south and by the time you do start running into those original members of the bubble, they've thinned out because again, remember only one and four people make it all the way through the a T and it's not like they all make it close to the end. People burn out at different spots along the way. Yeah.

And then I mentioned at the very beginning the flip flopping technique, that is when you're doing it in chunks to really try and get the best weather everywhere you are at the time. Uh. And there's a leap frogging route where you would start in Georgia in April, uh late April, just as so you maybe don't get that snow that we were talking about out. You hike to West Virginia to Harper's Ferry, and then you leap frog. You can take a car, you can take a train

anyway you would normally get somewhere not by foot. You would go to Great Barrington, Massachusetts, then hike north from there to finish up by September before that cold weather, and then you leap frog back down to Great Barrington and hike that southern portion back down to Harper's ferry that you skipped, and there you have if you ever want to hike the a T. Just pack a backpack and listen to what Chuck just said and just go

for it. You don't need any other information, that's correct, I think, actually you do need a tremendous amount of information. And luckily there's a lot of information out there on the web, a lot of really good free advice. UM. If if you are thinking about, um hiking the A T. I'm sure you have already found a lot of these, but a good place to start if you're just if this episode inspires you, is probably the subredit for the Appalachian Trail. I know. Just there's a ton of good

advice on there. Um and just whatever question you have, just ask it in type Appalachian Trail, and there's probably pages and pages of people who have great advice and suggestions on how to do this. UM. And we'll share a little bit with you right now. I'm about sleeping and eating. Yeah, I used to do plenty of backpacking, so I'm familiar with all this stuff. Now. I'm a car camper mainly, but I am going to get back into backpacking at some point. Um, But I still have

all that gear. But boy, it's it's a lot lighter now than when I bought it. Um. You can get an ultra light tent these days that weigh less than twenty ounces. My friend, it's about one point one seven pounds. That's like the weight of a cockatil, a big one. That's right. So leave your cocket deal at home too. Um. So you know you're gonna want an ultra light tent unless you're gonna really really either sleep in a hammock or just you know, sleep under the ground under a

tarp or something. But I would suggest an ultra light tent. But there are two hundred and fifty shelters along the way. I've slept in a couple of these there. It's just you know, two walls in a roof and a and a sort of like a small deck that you're sleeping on. And it's first come, first serve, uh. You. Some of them have little outhouses, some of them don't. They're usually

near water, like a river or something. Uh. And you can and I have camped on these with strangers, and then it could be a lot of fun sometimes meeting people like that. Oh yeah, if you're gonna throw hike the a t You need to get used to interacting with strangers in close quarters for just for times like this, but also you know, on the trail you run into lots of strangers and a lot of times they want

to stop and talk or whatever. But um, I saw that those rustic shelters are um first come, first serve. So even if you meticulously planned your hike UM to hit one of these, did you say they're about eight miles apart? I didn't, but that's about right yet. So that and that's like, you know, that's an average day's walk for a very average ridge hikers. And they purposely spread them out like that, and they're a little further spread out if there's a town in between them with

hotels and hostels and all that. But you can meticulously plan your your route so that you hit one of these shelters every night, so you're you're you have shelter without needing a tent. But if there's a lot of people on the trail, you may be s o l when you show up at that shelter because it's full up by with eight people in their sleeping bags and

there's no room for you. Yeah, that's when you're gonna want that tent as a backup at the very least, and you can camp right behind the shelter if you still want to hang out with people. Because I don't know if we mentioned this, there are a lot of different reasons people hike the A t Some people really want to get away from people. Um. But for what I'm have read and talk to people who have done it.

Even those people, when you're out there for five and a half months, can enjoy talking with someone every few days, right, you know what I mean? Even though weirdos want to talk to people sometimes or you may not. They they're probably names for everything. They're probably named for people to don't want to socialize, like a little a t uh, sort of made up name they give them sure, trail hermits all bad. Yeah, termits termites, Yeah, termites is what

they call them. We've been a cockney rhyming rhyming slang. Um. Food is another thing. Obviously you're gonna be eating a lot of calories, or at least burning up a lot of calories and ideally replenishing those calories with food. Um, you will lose a ton of weight hiking the A t if you're through hiker and you need about two pounds of food a day and you want to resupply generally every three to ten days, depending on kind of how you want to plan it out and how much

weight you want to carry. Uh. And there are great books again that you can tell you exactly how to do this. But you're either going to be replenishing on the trail when you hit a town, or a lot of people mail or have family members mail their stuff ahead of time to post offices that you'll hit. Yeah. Um, some people mail their own stuff or they have some

family do it for him. And there's a lot of a lot of websites dedicated to teaching you how to do that successfully and giving you the addresses you need and where you can it can't send send stuff. But the off shot is you're not gonna have to carry your five months supply of food with you the whole time. People have figured out how to not do it, and

there's no shame whatsoever. And going into town not only to eat or to resupply and restock up on food, but also to sleep to like people take zero days I think you mentioned earlier, where you just you just take the day off or maybe even two days off if you're particularly burned out, and you just kind of recuperate and recharge and get back on the trail after that. So that's definitely part of a t culture that's not

like cheating or anything. Yeah. Absolutely, uh And apparently it's a tradition to uh to go on a feast and when you're in a town just to really eat just a bunch of high calorie junk. Uh, to load up on calories and think to maybe satisfy a certain urge that's not being met on the trail when you're eating, uh,

you know. Uh. Dave calls it gorp. I've never heard it called that, but like trail mix and and freeze dried food and stuff like that, even though that stuff has come a long way and how good it tastes, I will say that I looked it up. GORP stands for good old raisins and peanuts. Okay, gn't that delightful. That may be a regional thing. I've never heard anyone call it that here. Yeah, I have never heard it either, which is why I was like, what is this gorps stuff?

I didn't I'm glad you, Uh, I didn't know as an acronym. It definitely it does not accurately convey what it's talking about because gorp sounds disgusting, but raisins and peanuts are not disgusting. Yeah, Dave also hasn't here. The average cost of gear that you buy is about a thousand bucks. I think that is, uh, can vary wildly. I think it really depends on how much gear you already have, because that one pound tent that I was

talking about is a seven all our tent. Oh yeah, No, definitely, Like you can also like buy your stuff off of like eBay or Craigslist or something like that probably save a tremendous amount of money compared to going to are e I and buying everything brand new. Um. And also, especially if you're a first timer, you're definitely going to

over purchase, over plan, and overpack. So I would guess if you're if you're a first time through hiker, you were going to spend substantially more than you would on maybe your second attempt. Yeah, and I think at the beginning of no matter where you start in Maine, And it's weird that he can do this in both places.

But Sam Elliott is at the front at the trailhead going through your pack and saying, you don't need this, you don't need this, get rid of this, why would you even have this, and just tearing your pack apart basically until you're down to you know, that ultra light tent and some gorp. Yeah, and by proxy tearing you apart psychologically. Yeah. He was kind of a jerk lately about that power of the dog. Maybe I forgot about that. What do you mean he was a jerk? What do

you do? He the power of the dog came out and he was just kind of like, well, do you know what these candy butts in their homosexual cowboyd notions? And that's that's not the West. I knew what's problem. Yes, he knew he was born in nineteen fifty or the crotchety old guy, homophobic, crotchety old guy, which was very disappointing because all that's great, Sam elliott Um. But getting back to the money, Uh, you're gonna spend about a

grand a month. They just say that at least plan on about a thousand dollars a month, So between five and seven thousand dollars, depending on how long you're gonna take to hike it. Yes, so cough up the smoleans. Everybody are prepared to and also prepared to listen to some commercials because we're gonna take a break real quick.

All right, Well, let's talk weather. If you're hiking the a T we mentioned potentially, potentially the snow at the beginning of the northbound route, or you know, Maine is crazy, you might you might get a late snow and in May or early June and May and even at elevation, so you're gonna have some cold weather to contend with for a little while at least, right, yes, one way or another. And again, um, if you have cold weather stuff that you need to eventually ditch, you don't have

to plan on carrying it the whole time. You can go to one of those same post offices that you pick up your mail drop at and mail it back, mail back your cold weather gear, a little lead, a little trail magic for someone, you know what I'm saying. There you go, I wonder, I'll bet a lot of people do that. To tell you the truth, you think, Yeah, and then hypothermia because there's cold weather associated with the um hike. It's a real problem and it's not just

from being snowed on. It's actually much less likely from being snowed on. It's more likely from being hit by a cold rain and being soaked and then hit with some very cold wind, which can happen at high altitudes, and all of a sudden, your core temperature is dropping very quickly, so you have to get naked and try to warm up as fast as you can. That's right. The clothing that they make these days is amazing. It's very lightweight. Uh, these synthetic weaves that with the water away,

they dry out super fast. Uh. It is not like the stuff in the shapeer days. And this other wonderful hero that we're going to talk about in a little bit, this woman. I cannot wait to get to her. H But you're also gonna hit really hot, humid, balmy weather in the in the thick of it in the summer, in the middle of that hike. Uh, you're gonna you depleted of your electrolytes and your salts. You could suffer

from cramping and heat stroke and heat exhaustion. So they say to count on a couple of liters of water a day. Uh, And obviously you're not gonna carry that much weight, so you're gonna gonna want to use and I got one of these two uh, one of those beautiful little lightweight water purifying systems that you just kind of pump into your water bottle from a running, beautiful stream. Ye, you pump and dump into your water bottle. That's right.

And then also, chuck, I mean you want to keep up with your water, you really need to keep up with your calories, because, like you said, you're gonna lose a ton of weight. And apparently, even if you ate four thousand calories a day, by the time you were done with your through hike, on average, you would have probably lost ten to twenty pounds and you would look like a black lab that has ripped like a pit pole. Yeah, that's right, and that's a cool reason to do it,

you know it is. But I also saw that it can lead to a lot of um like guilt or shame when you start to gain your weight back, because everybody's been telling you how amazing you look, and then when you get back to normal life, it can be really difficult. Right. There's something called hikers hunger, where it is you're just starving and you can eat those incredible large amounts of food, calorie dense food, and just keep

shedding the pounds because you're exerting yourself so much. But when you get off of the trail, when you're done, you're not exerting yourself any longer. But that that hikers hunger can still linger. So you're actually eating way more than you would have before you started the trail, and you really have to kind of keep up with it or else you can gain whatever weight you have back and then some. But yeah, I saw that there's there there can be guilt associated with with not looking like

that any longer after a little while. Yeah, So if you next time you see a buddy come off of a through hike on the a T, don't tell them how amazing they look. Just say it's good to see you, yeah exactly, I'm glad you're safe. And then they'll go, you know what you say anything about how great airlock? Right? What's wrong with this? I thought we were a friend. Uh. There are animal dangers, of course, snakes and spiders and bears and things like that. Uh. Ticks are a big,

big part of the problem. Uh. Lime disease is huge. You're gonna get ticks if you hike the a t So you wanna check that every night around your ankles and armpits and groin area and waistline and everywhere that ticks like to hide out. Dude, I saw that people drop their pants in squat over an iPhone and video like run a video of their underside or undercarriage and then watch the video just see if there's any hiding there that they can't feel. Or the stranger that they

met in the thing. They say, I looked at the video a few times. Will you just give it a once over? Right? And the stranger says, I'm a term Mike, please leave me alone. Bears, I did mention you don't want your food to be left out. If you are an experienced camp n hiker, you know this stuff. But uh, some places they have bare boxes, but that you can't

count on a bare box being there. Um, there are bear proof canisters you can carry, but what you're probably gonna do it's just what's called a bear hang, which go about two hundred feet away from your campsite and loop a rope over a tree and pull your food up at least twelve feet off the ground. Yeah, every single night without fail, and they still might get it. Bears are crafty. They are crafty, but at least they're doing it two feet away from where you're sleeping exactly.

You know. Um, a lot of people get injured too, but very few people die U. Two to three people out of again three million people die on the A T every year. That's actually seems like it would be way higher than that. UM. And there have only been I say only, but to me, statistically speaking, it seems low. Thirteen murders on the trail and the first one wasn't until yeah, and I look this up and they did.

I'm not gonna bother going on the crazy apples to apples math they had to do to make it work out to like just being living in the United States in a regular neighborhood. But they did do that math if you want to go out there and look. But they found that your chances of getting murdered on the A T or a thousand times less likely than just

being a regular American walking around on a daily basis. Man, I'm really glad you said that, because all you have to do is hear about thirteen murders on the trailers and people die. And this is the fact that you're putting it in the context of dying out in the woods, are being murdered out in the woods. It seems so much worse. So I think that's a really reassuring thing

you just said. Uh it is. And I was also curious about sexual assault type of things, and of course things go unreported, so I'm not not even enough to think that this accounts for all of them. But they said that there's one basically one reported rape every two to three years. And it is more dangerous to live on a college campus than it is to hike the a T. So I don't know if that makes you feel better or worse, depending on if you're on a college campus or not. But the point is it is

generally a pretty safe, helpful community out there. Yeah. That's one of the reasons it's safe is because there's such a established culture and there is such tight community out there, not only among strangers, but among the towns folk like this. These this trail goes through or right past some towns that part of their industry is supporting Appalachian Trail through hikers, um. And so they're really kind and generous and um and

helpful um out on the trail. Some people will just go out on the trail who live in town and take like snacks and drinks and stuff and just hand them out to people who are walking on the Appalachian Trail. So I mean like there's that's that's like kind of like the the vibe and the zeitgeist on a T. Not everybody's out for themselves and you know, don't don't turn your back on a stranger because they'll hit you with a hatchet and take your one pound hint um.

It's nothing like that. It's actually quite the opposite of that from everything I can tell. Uh, we have kind of joked around about these trail names, but that is one thing that you do, or at least you're encouraged to do, is give yourself a trail name. Only go by that trail name, and it's a symbolic thing that you are leaving your old identity behind for now you are becoming a new person on the trail. And it's

kind of fun, I think, yeah. But I mean that that kind of goes to underscore like why people hike the a T. And one of them is to like just get away from their life to kind of reset their perspective on things or think things through or you know, go through a transition. Um, and that you know, taking a trail name is a really good way to just become somebody different for a little while, or not your

usual self. It gives you that kind of freedom. I think. Yeah, I just don't don't use the trail named Ted Bundy and you should be fine. Right. Um, you mentioned the towns that are behind this. There is in Damascus, Virginia in May there's a weeklong festival called Trail Days where there's a hiker parade and everyone gets showered with water

balloons and water guns and they're sort of celebrated. Uh. There's the half gallon ice Cream Challenge or write a passage in pine Grove Furnace State Park in Pennsylvania, where you get a half gallon of ice cream from pine Grove Furnace General Store and try to eat the whole thing. Not that sounds like a lot of fun to me. Oh yeah, definitely. I don't think you have to hike

that a t to try that. Also, chuck. Apparently on the summer solstice in June, Um, there's Hike Naked Day for that is that is the thing, and my my friend Mitch told me that he hiked most of it naked, not just on high on hike naked day, Like, there's a lot of naked hiking, or at least there used to be in the late nineties. Okay, good from Yeah, that's what I said to and this is medium uh hygiene, Mitch, right, not any much? Okay, No one wants to see that

I mentioned trail magic. That is not something I was just making fun of or made up. Trail magic is defined by the A T Conservancy as uh, I think it. People could be cynical about stuff like this, But the fact that you had to say that too is that it just goes to show how lame the words trail

magic har you know. Uh. The A T Conservancy defines it, and it's finding what you need most when you at least expected, or experiencing something rare, extraordinary or inspiring in nature, or encountering unexpected acts of generosity that restore your faith and humanity. And it is something like, hey, man, you need you need that, I've got that, and here it is. Yeah,

that's pretty cool. It also can take the form of even like verbal encouragement from townsfolk in the towns that you walk through, you know, so I want to also clarify the term trail magic is what I think is lame. That concept of trail mangic, I think is beautiful. No, I'm with you. I think it's wonderful and like you said,

you know, something inspiring in nature. When you're on the trail, you might see things that you're never ever going to see again for the rest of your life and have never seen before, including some types of animals or just certain views um and that like that experience can be

there's no other way to put it. Magical. Like that's what helps helps you when you're kind of on this passage through the a t if you're going through life transition or if you're trying to figure yourself out, seeing stuff like that, bearing witness to it and letting it like um, impress upon you. That helps that process I think probably tremendously. Yeah, or like somebody filming their butt hole with an iPhone. That's right, trail magic. All right.

I think we should close the show and this episode with uh. I think I can speak for both of us and say one of our new favorite amazing women and human beings to ever live u Emma Grandma Gatewood true dat, who was the first woman to walk the A T by herself, um, all the way back in nineteen five when she was sixty seven, and this is nineteen fifty five, sixty seven, that's like hundred and fifty today, right, And as if that wasn't enough, it just gets better

and better. She was the mother of eleven kids twenty three grandkids, had a thirty year marriage to an awful, abusive, physically abusive husband who apparently would beat her nearly to

death at times. Eventually divorced this uh garbage human, raised those eleven children by herself, and then in the nineteen fifties read a nat GEO article about the A T and about Schaefer's through hike, and said in in nineteen fifty three, told her grandchildren, I'm sorry her grown children that she was going for a hike quote, and tried to hike the A T right then and there, starting at Mount Katadin, which again, if you if you're a sobo,

you're that's for experience hikers, not first timer who's going for a hike at age sixty seven and nineteen fifty five, so uh and apparently very short order she fell she broke her glasses, she got lost. She basically turned into Veloma from Scooby Doo and she was rescued by rangers. And you would think, okay, that's the end of the story that she you know, she had a wild hair

and she tried it and it didn't work. No, in two years later she said, let me try this from Georgia instead, and she was able to through hike the entire Appalachian Trail. Unbelievable. You look up pictures of this lady and you're like, wait a minute, it looks like she's just holding a ruck sack over her shoulder. And that's because that's exactly what she did. She didn't have a backpack, she didn't have a sleeping bag, she didn't

have a compass. She had a homemade denim duffel bag that she draped over her shoulder, that had a blanket, a shower curtain that she used as a sleeping tart. Basically, she had a canteen for water apparently, a small pot, a spoon, a Swiss army knife, some pins, a first aid kit, a flashlight, a piece of rope, a raincoat, a warmer coat, and a change of clothes. And she hiked the whole thing and kids sneakers, yes, seven pairs. Did kids take advantage of this back then and they're

advertising I don't know. They could probably still take advantage of it. It's that astounding, you know they should. And despite wearing nothing but kids and carrying this denim duffel bag, which I would guess is probably pretty heavy. Um, she managed the average of fourteen miles a day, and of course people heard about her in the newspaper started covering her and all that. So townsfolk came out and said like, hey, you can sleep our house, no charge. We want to

feed Jim, put you up. We just think what you're doing is great. And she said, I appreciate it. But most nights she slept out on a bed of leaves. Amazing. I salute you, Grandma Gatewood. She U. There were not many women obviously hiking the a T at the time at all, much less through hiking. I think they make up women make up about a third of all through hikers today. Uh. And she went on to hike it I think a couple of more times to write. Yeah.

Two years later she hiked it again. So she became the first person man or woman to hike the trail twice, and she did a third time in nineteen sixty four. At that time she divided into sections, So yeah, she was definitely she definitely Again, there's really no other way to put it. She was a trailblazer for women on the a T. Sorry, but that's just how you put it.

A couple of other standouts we should mention um. Just last year m J. Sunny Everhart Uh became the oldest person to complete it through hiking eighty three years young. What was Sonny's name on the trail Nimblewood nomad. Very nice, but how about that kid trail magic to it? It does. Yeah. The same year, another record was set the youngest through hiker, UH five year old named Harvey Sutton, who started off when he was four and walked it in two d

nine days with his parents. Unbelievable. Harvey's trail name was little Man And I read article about this and it just sounds sounded like a wonderful family experience. Uh. And this one guy hiked with the family from somewhere in Pennsylvania through two Maine just kind of buddied up with him and it was like this kid at the end of the day, like our butts are kicked and he's like, let's play freeze tag. Oh my god, unbelievable and and just you know, the parents had to work over time

to keep him engaged. And so you can't just like be alone with your thoughts for you know, ten hours a day on the trail with a five year old, like you gotta be pointing things out and playing little games. And so they said that was challenging. But they said they were just closer than they'd ever been as a family, which is pretty cool. That it's cool. Did they say anything about feeding him? Because I would find it distressing as a parent to know that I needed to keep

up with thousands of calories. Yeah, that my kid needed. So I mean hats off to his parents for for doing that and then successfully doing it too. You know. Yeah, I did see that there was um another kid that finished it for named Juniper net Netteberg, a young girl that finished it. This is amazing and a wonder woman costume. Um. But apparently he did it in sections and took time off and I think did it within a year's time, but didn't do this straight through hike like Harvey Sutton did.

But big salute to Juniper as well as well as Bill Irwin. Right, yeah, he definitely bears mentioning. He was the first man who was blind to hike the Appalitchian Trail through hike In and he did it with his dog Orient. Apparently the pair together we're called the Orient Express, and it took him eight months. Again, this is not like this trail is not just like some well worn

dirt path. For two thousand miles. You're climbing over boulders, you're climbing up mountains, down mountains, You're crossing streams and rivers. Apparently they would do that because Orient would go across and then bark at Bill, so he knew where to swim across this river. He gets to the other side. This is what they did, and they did it in eight months, and he estimates that he fell about five thousand times over that eight months. But he still made

it from Georgia to Cadadin. You know what that means, my friend, he got up five thousand times. That's right, pretty neat chucking your brain? Do you love my body? Sure, Starfish. I don't know why this episode is so blue. I don't either, but it sure was. Hopefully it inspired some people to go out and do this, you know, I hope. So it's a very cool thing. I'm glad we finally got around to it. Hopefully there's some through hikers listing right now that can write in and let us know

what's going on. Oh yeah, definitely. Uh, let us know your trail name too. If you want to know more about the a T. Just start doing research and there's plenty of stuff out there and hopefully it'll draw you out into the woods. And since I said draw you out into the woods, it's time for listener mail. I'm gonna call this kidney donation story. It's pretty great. Hello, chaps, love the program. Listen with more interest than usual to the on kidney donation. I donated to a family friend

a couple of years ago. We actually were in adjoining surgery rooms. Out of me into him, lickety split. We're both doing well. His kids nicknamed the organ little Kirby after me, which I took as a high compliment. Uh, and you asked how you got the kidney out. They do make a three inch long incision low on the

bikini line up front and they just split it out. Wow, So I think it it must just sort of flatten out or something, and then they take it and they feed it to the other person and hope it lands in the right spot. Uh. That incision was actually the worst part of the recovery. It took about a month to heal up. In my case, I told my sisters that they then made you poop the kidney out, and I think part of them wanted to believe me. Thanks for encouraging folks to join. The registry is well worth

it and the need is great. That is from Kirby in South Hadley, Massachusetts. Very nice, Kirby. Hats off to you for doing that. It's amazing, and hats off to everybody who's done that. A few people have written in and let us known that they've done that. So anyone who does that, is it a okay in our book? Agreed. If you want to be like Kirby and let us know how you are a okay we want to hear, you can send us an email to Stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a

production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, h