Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you should know. Oh, Jerry left, she was here, I think just long enough for the interest of that count. All right, sure, how are you doing.
I'm great. I'm kind of excited about this one because this is one that out you got intro.
Yeah you ready?
Yeah?
Here Chuck?
Yes, have you.
Ever heard of World War Two? Oh?
I missed those?
Well?
Sure, the big one, Okay, the granddaddy of them all, the Big Game. No way, that's a super Bowl.
I don't think they call it the Big Game. Well, it turns out, Chuck, that in World War Two, arguably one of the greatest spies, an amateur, no less, came out of Poland. It was a woman.
That's right.
Can you believe that?
I can.
But that's the whole premise of this, Well that's not the whole premise of it, but that's a premise of a lot of stuff, like get a load of this this lady, what she did, and then when you add it all up, you're like, oh my goodness, she really was possibly the greatest spy and her biographer named Claire Mully put it, she wrote a book called The Spy Who Loved There's a colon in there somewhere. I think it's the Spy Colon who loved Me.
No, no, But.
In her book The Spy Who Loves she describes this woman who will call Christine Granville for now more bond less bond girl. And I was like, you go.
Girl, Oh that's a good descriptor yeah, I thought so, too inappropriate. This is one of those where you know, I'm always harping about, oh, this should be a movie, this should be and it sounds like it is going to be a movie. And we'll get to that at the end. But I do want to give a shout out we've been taking, or at least I have. I
think you have too. More and more suggestions from listeners I found as the well seemingly it runs dryer that it's nice to get these ideas from people, the good ones, right.
Yeah, we get plenty of good ideas a lot, Like every every day we get a few good ideas.
I would say, yeah, I would say so, And I'm going to keep a list of good ideas. And I very kindly say thank you to the people whose ideas aren't great. They're good ideas, but just maybe not for the show. Sure you know what I'm saying that, No, no, no, I tell everybody thank you for the great idea. But I well, I guess that would be outing myself if I say what I told the people, these ideas I really like. So I'm just going to keep that to myself.
But this one came from Jen Spota in Seattle and basically said, yeah, this is Christine Grantfles is close to her real life James Bond as you can get yep. And I will go on to say this is another way of precursoring this episode. Jen says she was a spy for the British and World War Two and her stories are so insane they're almost unbelievable. But her story is not very well known, So Jen, this one's for you.
Yeah, and it's for everybody who's ever wanted to learn more about woman spies in World War Two.
Totally. Christine Granville was kind of an awesome BA.
Yes she really was. Her. Christine Granville was just a cover name. That's what she's fairly well known as because she kept that after the war, because she was so proud of what she'd accomplished with that name. But she was born in Poland to an aristocratic father and a wealthy mother from a Jewish banking family. The father was not wealthy, he was aristocratic, so you put the two together and you have a suddenly very powerful family. And her birth name was Christina Scarbeck, which is a I
mean Christine Granville. You can see Christina to Christine. The Granville throws me off a little bit from Scarback, but I guess that's the point of a new identity. You don't exactly want to be like word, but this sounds a lot like Christina Scarbeck. Is that who you are?
Yeah? In different spellings. The americanized I guess Christina with a ch, well, literally like Christian. And then the Polish version was k r y st y n a. And if I may just read her full name, because it's pretty great, her full given name was Maria Christina Janina Scarbeck. And I have to say her dad's name because there are two men in the story with his first name, and I've never heard of it. His name is Jersey j e.
R z Y, so I looked it up and in Polish it's like yert Z yerd ce okay, I figured, and it's the Polish version of George.
Oh okay, So no wonder it sounds a little more common than I would think.
But it is a pretty pretty great name in the spelling. And the fact that there's two Yertzy's in her life, very prominent ones. I think that's astounding too, that you go from zero to two overnight. Basically, that's right.
Her mom was a Goldfelder of the Jewish banking Goldfelder family, and that's where they got their money. But when Christine was growing up, you know, she was very privileged. But then eventually after World War One, the Goldfelder bank tanked and the depression that followed, and her dad left the family, died when she when Christina was in her early twenties, and she ends up, you know, not having a lot of money, living in an apartment in Warsaw with her brother and her mother.
Yes, yeah, her dad just abandoned the family when the money ran out. It's pretty awful. Yeah, what a jersey she right, She ended up kind of living the high life as best she could. She liked to go out on the town. She was a runner up for Miss Poland beauty contests. I saw that she used to hang out at a very chic ski resort and while there, this is a great, great example of the kind of how she could straddle multiple worlds. Like the people that she was there with were all very wealthy, you know,
trust fund kids and like aristocratic kids. But while she was at the ski resort, she also connected with the criminals there and learned the smuggling routes and would go into the foreign like neighboring countries to buy cheaper cigarettes and bring them back and sell them more expensively in Poland. That's a great example. And this is what she was doing in her early twenties.
Yeah, I mean she sounds like a few things, A real firecracker, Yeah, someone who was eager for adventure and not one to just sort of go the expected route of a young woman at the time in any way, And the reason we mentioned this next part is because it's very sort of prevalent thing for the story is she was very attractive and very charming and used her looks in her charm in her life as a spy to great effect and also ended up as a result, having many many affairs, which was not the kind of
thing that you know, a woman of repute was to do back then.
Right, she didn't care about that kind of thing.
She did not. She was James bonding her way around Europe in a way.
Yeah, I saw that. She was described as having a near pathological enjoyment of dangerous situations. Yeah, Like she was fearless. Not only that, she seemed to be attracted to fear so she married a couple of times. Her second husband, Jerzy Gizeki, I'm pretty sure that's how it's pronounced. He was a diplomat for Poland in Ethiopia. And while they were moving to Ethiopia, or they had already moved in
their traveling around South Africa, Germany invaded Poland. And one of the things you have to know about Christina Scarbeck is she was incredibly patriotic. Like she was not happy about Germany invading Poland at all, but she actually did something about it. She figured out how to get a meeting with the Secret Intelligence Services George Taylor, which became six the Spies in Britain. She got a meeting with him and said, Hey, I want to spy for you
guys and work with the Polish Resistance. Let's make this happen.
Yeah, and that's not the way things usually went. Usually didn't go knocking on the door of six. First of all, you probably don't know where that door is, right, But if you happen to find out where that door is, you don't go knocking on it and ask for a job. You are generally found and recruited and asked to be
to become a part of it. I have a feeling this George Taylor guy was he was in a Australian businessman turned saboteur, and I think maybe because he was a civilian who got involved, he might have had a maybe a soft spot for this person who and again attract him in charming that certainly didn't hurt, but maybe had a soft spot for her, like being so eager to sign up as a civilian and would eventually he would eventually run what was known as the SOOE, the
Special Operations Executive, which were civilians. They were volunteer civilians that were saboteurs that they except for sounds like Christine Granville, would recruit to work for them, and do you know, sneaky spy missions during World War Two.
Including sabotage and stuff. I saw. One example of what they.
Did was that's what a saboteur does.
The second the second Panzer Division were a real problem in Europe for the Allies, and one of the mission the SOE carried out was to remove the axle grease from the trains that were transporting the Panzer Division and their tanks and replace it with some sort of corrosive abrasive oil. So just completely wreck the trains and set
them back for days. Yeah, not weeks. They did stuff like that, And again, these are just ordinary people from ordinary life who wanted to do something, and the fact that they were ordinary people and could blend in made them intensely valuable to carry out sabotage missions behind enemy lines.
Yeah. Absolutely. So she goes to Taylor. She's like, I have an idea. First of all, I want a job, And not only do I want a job, but I've got an idea for that job already of how I can just hit the ground running. I want to go to Hungary, which at the time was neutral in World War Two, and I can produce propaganda there. I'm an excellent snow skier, so I can then skils the Tatra Mountain range, get into poland set up communications there with
you guys, and I can get the whole network. I've got people that will you know, from the Polish resistance that will help me along, and I can. I can do this over and over to your heart's content. And this Australian guy said, well, it's gonna do an Australian accent, but I decided not to at the last minute. I don't know why I froz up. He said, sure, lady.
That was a different choice.
Yeah, so he signed her up.
He said, welcome on board. How about you do your Murray impression of him hiring her. Everybody says that.
Yeah, he's new Zealander. I think Kidney, Yeah he is.
But even in Australia they think it's awesome.
Okay, he said, prison.
So he hires her. But you can't, you know, at the time, be like a Sooe agent overtly. You have to have some sort of cover. And so she was officially hired as the first aid nursing yeomanry fanny person which had been around and for a while and it was usually made up of wealthy women who donated their own time, money, clothes, expenses, paid their own expenses to basically volunteer for World War One. That was carried over and it made a lot of sense because it also
meant that those women were typically left alone. Not only were they women, there were women volunteers, and they were wealthy women volunteers, so he just didn't mess with them that much. So it was a really great cover for a woman who was an soe operative.
Yeah, she was also commissioned as a flight officer for the British Women's Auxiliary Air Force. Again just another cover job, but they let her do that first plan. They were like, not only can you come aboard, but we think that sounds pretty good to us. She was successful. She got a Olympic skier, Polish Olympic skier and mountaineer named jan Maris Arts to help her along across the border. They skied across this two thousand meter you know, set of Alps.
And apparently, as the story goes, and we should say some of the stuff is completely verified, and some of this stuff are stories that were told that maybe you know, lathered up a little bit. Apparently she was known to sort of lather up her own stories, but they're still great stories. But as the story goes they skied by dead bodies of like frozen people to get into Allied territory.
Yeah, this seems pretty believable to me. That people were trying to escape Poland and just froze to death on the way.
To Hungary makes for a good movie scene.
Sure, yeah, they're really It really kind of soaks in just what the Steaks are, what's at stake for their mission? Do you know what I mean?
Yeah? And also I will say, if the makers of this movie are listening, cast Josh and I as frozen dead people, that'd be great. What an Easter egg that would be.
That would be wonderful. I'd be sitting there trying not to smile. Frozen you want to take a break real quick.
They could be like, look at him, he seemed happy when he'd be bad.
Right, they say, it's a good way to go.
Yeah, let's take a break and I'm going to work in my frozen that body. We'll be right back.
So, Chuck, you were saying that the myths around Christine Granville are questionable, but it's probably one of those things that there's some sort of kernel of truth to that. Sure, yeah, yeah, But one of the other things that makes her so compelling is that some of them, it's tough to distinguish the myth from the actual story, because ones that are documented are just as mind blowing as the ones that
are Like, is that true? And then in a lot of cases, the story is true, but say, whoever the bad guy is in that story might be mixed up, and then maybe they're not quite as scary as the bad guy that got you know, inserted into the story later on, But the story's still true. And that was confusing. But later on, everybody, I'll point out the example I'm talking.
About, okay, is that the one we're about to talk about.
No, it's a different one. The one we're about to talk about, I say, is the one where she was on a train smuggling documents.
Yeah, so this is during that same sort of mission that she had originally proposed. She ended up doing that like six or eight times, so it wasn't just a one off. She was just skiing back and forth all the time past Josh and Chuck, you know, didn't care about us. But at one point there was a train
headed to Warsaw that she boarded. She saw that there were arm guards, you know, you know, asking for papers and possessions, going through people's stuff, And so she turns on that charm and bats her eyes at a Gestapo officer and was like, here, would you mind holding this package? It's I shouldn't have it. It's black market tea. I'm trying to bring it to my mother, who really loves this stuff. But you know, I don't want to get caught. And so he's like, sure, for all I know, I'll
hold that for you. But of course in that box were illegal documents that this guy was unknowingly hiding from his Gestapo counterparts.
Yeah, I mean like he like that surely would have cost her her life had he opened the box. But she was capable of charming even Gestapo agents, and that was part of it too, Like it wasn't it wasn't just the same type of charm for every person. That was like a catch all type of charm. She was also emotionally intelligent enough to be able to read individual people or even whole groups of people, to figure out what they what they wanted to hear, what would charm
them the most. So she could be very you know, rigid and command She could also be like flirtatious and helpless like whatever it called for. Yeah, she just could recognize what the best course of action was and it worked more often than not.
For Yeah, she was really good at what she did. Eventually she would get married. Well, she met a guy name on how would you pronounce that?
It's Andre?
Oh, it is Andre Kowerski. Boy, I tell you what, Polish people have so many extra letters. I just celebrate that so much. I have Polish friends, and it's always amazing to me to look at the amount of letters in those names.
Yeah, so Andre is in this case is spelled A and d r ZJ and then zej. Really comes as a surprise at the end of us singler speakers.
It really does. Anyway, great names. So she met this guy. He was a war hero, he was Polish, he had one leg. He was also a spy. And she was still married to Kaziki. But nevertheless she started up relationship with Kowerski. It would be sort of a sort of a lifelong love on and off, even though again she would also have many other sort of short affairs and flings, some job related, some seemingly not.
Yeah, there's a very popular story about her that she had a really men would become obsessed with her, so sometimes it was easier than others to get rid of guys. And in one case in Budapest, she had a knock on her apartment door and a former suitor who she left behind was begging her to come back and threaten that if she didn't, he would shoot himself in his genital organs.
That was a trick quote, yeah.
And apparently he tried, but he missed and he ended up shooting himself in the foot. So he was quite serious about that. And I just can't help but wonder like what her response was that, Like, did she bring him in her apartment and help nurse them? Did she go get help, what did she do? Because I could see her like taking care of the guy, but also at the same time being like, this doesn't mean we're
back together. I just, you know, don't want you to bleed to death from shooting yourself in the foot kind of thing.
It really depends on who plays him in the movie.
The guy.
Yeah, if he's a sad sack, she might be like, get in here, what have you done to yourself? Like you literally shot yourself in the foot?
Right.
If it's played by some creep, then you know she shuts the door and says, hobble off.
Yeah, good riddance to your.
Uh so to you know, her dad had split and died at this point, but we did want to follow up about her mom. She was teaching at a secret school in German occupied territory, not a good place to be because I don't think we mentioned that her family, although she did convert to Catholicism, I believe for marriage.
She was Jewish and she was wealthy, and she wouldn't stop teaching at that school, so she would not leave the country with her daughter, and she was eventually captured, and everyone basically agrees that she was probably killed.
Yes, so both of her parents. I think her dad already died in her twenties. I'm not sure if we said that or not. So both of her parents are gone. She has a younger brother, but for the most part, she's just kind of free to live her life. Oh, she has a husband back home, by the way, but he's off doing his own thing for the Brits as a secret agent too. And really, for all intents and purposes,
she's common law married to Andre Kowarski. Despite having all of these separate flings that she's carrying out for her duties as a spy in the SOE.
Yeah, and Kowarski was also a spy.
Yes, exactly. So her life is just dangerous from moment to moment. So I'm sure she's just loving every second of it. And like you said, she just kept going back and forth across the Polish Hungarian border, faring people and weapons and money and info. And she was working inside Poland with a group called the Musketeers, who will pose a problem for her later on because they were like a resistance group, like you know from the Top Secret. Yeah, that kind of thing. But they were French because of
chuckle out mouse And where were the other ones? Uh?
I don't know. Okay, I'm know what you're talking about. But they were the Musketeers, so of course they were French.
So no, they were Polish.
Oh you said they were French.
I'm saying in the movie Top Secret they were French.
Oh the Musketeers were Polish. I get what you mean.
Yeah, So the upshot that was totally unnecessary, by the way, But the upshot of it is that from the Musketeer she managed to cement her reputation among the spies, both professional and amateur working for Britain when she brought information to the Brits that the Nazis were about to break their non aggression, packed with the Russians and invade the Soviet Union. And it turned out that they invaded on the very day that her intel said that they would.
Yeah. But Winston Churchill himself called her out and said, hm, she's my favorite spy, and everyone said, is that a thing? Sure it is.
In fact, Chuck, Winston Churchill sounded exactly like Murray from Flight of the Contest.
TOYI, this is a pretty good story, and a lot of these are just little bits from her life of course that make for you know, good stories and eventually a good movie. But she was in January of nineteen forty one, she had been arrested by Hungarian secret police along with Kuwerski. You know, she's doing spying with him, And after a couple of days of being interrogated, she very clandestinely bites into her tongue enough that it starts bleeding and she starts coughing up blood as if she
has TB. And everyone freaks out because nobody wanted TB and so they released them.
Great idea, Yeah, you know, I've been in possibly the very rooms that she was being interrogated in in Budapest. They turned some of those places into museums that you can go and visit. Wow, this is where the secret police like interrogated people. It's it's nuts and it's really well done. No, I didn't, but it's like, really, I
can't remember the name of the museum. There can't be too many of them, but Budapest has a few attractions like that, or kind of dark tourist attractions that are really worth visiting if you ever go.
I'll have to ask Himaly because she went to museums there, I bet I bet that was one of them.
I'll bet it was. And now, but she also went to the Hospital in the Rock, which was a literal underground hospital built into a cave system that they preserved. It's they have wax dummies like hanging out. That makes it even cooler.
Do any of them look like us?
No? But one of them smiling inappropriately?
Okay, so all right. Eventually she and Korski are exposed as spies, like their cover is blown, and they still want to do their so they adopt new identities. This is when she finally becomes Christine Granville. Korski became Andrew Kennedy, which is kind of funny when you think about it. And she, like you said, at the beginning, she was Grandville from there on out, because that's sort of where she became even more famous and wanted to hang on
to that name. And this is where her birthday gets a little confusing, because she gave herself a different birthdate obviously to assume this new identity, which made her probably like six to eight years younger, And so whenever there are stories about her, there can be some confusion about whether or not she was like in her early to mid twenties or like mid thirties when a lot of this is going on.
Yeah, so she ended up bouncing off to Cairo to spy on the Polish Intelligence Service. So get this for confusing. Poland is occupied by Nazi Germany. Yeah, but the Polish Intelligence Service still exists and is working against Nazi Germany. And at the same time, the SOE in part is has infiltrated Poland with Polish civilians working as operatives, and they, as far as the Polish Intelligence Service is concerned, is working against the Polish Intelligence Services. Interests and is making
life hard on them. So there was a rivalry between SOE operatives in Poland and the Polish intelligence services that ended up actually becoming problematic for Christine Granville because the intelligence services basically denounced she and Kowerski as if not spies, like double agents, then they were being manipulated by double agents in the Musketeers. I told you the Musketeers would become problematic for them. This is where that happened.
Yeah, I think because the Musketeers were this freelance civilian group and you know, maybe they had been infiltrated by Axis spies. They at the very least were thought to have been infiltrated, so they uh. And we mentioned that that Jesseki, her her still husband, was also a spy. He heard about what was going on. He seemed like a pretty stand up guy because he heard about what was going on to her and to now Andrew Kennedy previously Kowerski, and he was like, you know what, I'm
not going to stand for this. I'm out of here, And that was kind of a real stand up thing to do. He resigned. Eventually, She said, you know, I don't know if you're trying to like, get back together with me, but I'm still with I'm still with this guy Kowerski. So I appreciate what you did, but that's not going to end.
He was like, oh I see, yeah, yeah, man, poor guy. So that kind of settled that. I think he kind of bows out of the story at this point.
Right, Yeah, But did they stay married.
I don't know.
Olivia, who helped us with this, said their relationship dissolved, but it already sounded fairly dissolved. I just don't know if they were officially not married at that point.
Yeah, I don't think it would have mattered much practically speaking. No, you're right, but she and Kowerski now Kennedy hung around Cairo for the next year while the Brits investigated them and whether they were actually spies or not. And the Brits later on, so they were fully aware that they weren't spies and that they were loyal and that there was really no problem, but they were having to indulge the Polish intelligence services because they needed the Polish intelligence services.
And yet it was the Brits who had gotten the whole thing stirred up by commanding Kowerski not to report to the Polish intelligence Services and only to report to them. Yeah, so that's what brought the first animosity up between Kowerski and then by association Granville with the Polish intelligence services, who denounced them later as spies unfairly. But they got cleared ultimately that investigation and they got back to work.
Yeah, she got back to work in France. Actually, July of nineteen forty four, she goes to France. Now she is using the name Pauline armand she literally parachutes into the south of France. She's going there to you know, get get involved in the resistance there and start to sort of help out, which eventually the American invasion. So she sort of laying the groundwork of what was to come for the United States involvement. She was, and this
guy ends up being pretty important. She was the second command to a guy named Frances How do you pronounce that last.
Name, Freggie Camertz Camers cam Camers, Yeah, because the the rts would would all be pronounced.
Okay, well that sounds about right. He led the SOEES independent French. He was organizing sabotage, grill operations, saboteur missions, stuff like that, and Livia also points out, in true move fashion that when she was in France, she had cinaide tablets and knives sewn into the hems of her skirt.
Yeah, I think the knife was strapped to her thigh, but it was roundly described as razor sharpened. That she carried it with her at all times. And yet she so she knew her way around a knife. I guess she didn't like guns very much. Her her weapon of choice, get this chuck was grenades. Yeah, because she could take out multiple people at once. So she's like, of course I'm going to use grenades. So I mean, just one more thing that It's like, wow, this this lady is
really astounding. Like her favorite weapon was grenades. That's not the question. That's not the answer most people are expecting when you're asked that question.
No, and that that grenades actually play a part in one story that and this is one that you know, could be a little gussied up because it's written differently in different biographies. Again, would make for a great movie. But she stopped at the Italian border. You know, they say put your hands up, and she's got you know, grenades, she you know, she holds up her arms and she's got grenades and she said, I'm gonna blow you all up, and the Germans run screaming in the movie.
Version, right, So this was the story I was referring to earlier, where if you switch out the bad guys, it's still an amazing story, but not quite as thrilling. Yeah, So this was described the she was stopped by German officers, and the German officers fled, So she scared off Nazis with this bluff, or it might have even been a
bluff in reality. The other biography says these were Italian conscripts, So these were soldiers who had basically been forced into soldiering, who were patrolling the border, probably pretty low level soldiers that you can imagine might run off a little faster than maybe Nazi officers at the time. So that's what I was talking about. The story's probably true, but you just kind of add a little thing here and take this person out there, and all of a sudden, it's just eye popping.
Yeah. Absolutely. At one point in another story, she was carrying and this is this is cool kind of spycraft stuff I never thought about. If you carry a paper map and you're getting padded down that map might rustle and crunch and make some noise, so they would carry silk maps so they wouldn't make any noise. And she got caught with one of these silk maps, but before they could find it, she yanked off her silkhead scarf and tied up her map into her head and spoke
perfect French. I don't think we mentioned, but of course she spoke several languages right, perfectly, yeah, and impersonated a local and apparently got out of there.
Funny enough, she spoke zero German.
Yeah. I mean she might not needed to if she was pretending to be everything, but German.
She spoke German shepherd though, ah, god, this is the best one.
I think. You go ahead, no, you know you all right, there's one story where, you know, the Germans send in the German shepherd to root them out, and I guess they were in the bushes or something, and the German shepherd finds her and she is able to charm this German shepherd into just kind of laying down and getting scretches. While the Germans are whistling for this dog to come back. This German shepherd is like, no, this is my new.
Mama, right, the Germans are like Fritz here.
Yeah, I'd better be in the movie.
Oh, we would have to be.
Yeah.
But what would be great is if they use that like nineteen fifties film trick where they just play the dog standing up and reverse to make it laid.
Down a funny. It's sort of uncanny. It's like, wait, what was it? What just happened?
Yeah, someone was off with that.
Oh that's great.
So and I'm an extra in the background, and the bushes just smiling like if it's hilarious.
They're like, wait, isn't that that polish?
Right? So, and you guys might be out there thinking, like, guys, you're just sitting there rattling off story after Sorry, this is essentially a timeline of what she went through. Like everything we just said after she got to France happened in France. Like that's how incredibly prolific she was. I think this all would have happened in nineteen forty three, nineteen forty four, I believe.
Yeah.
So, I mean, this stuff is happening to her on like a daily basis, and I should say not happening to her. She's going out and finding this kind of thing and loving, loving, life right. And then finally, in nineteen forty four, she undertook what became like her most legendary mission. And it sounds like she kind of took it on herself, which is something you could do as an Sooe agent to a large extent, as long as you were screwing up the enemy, they were fine with
whatever you were doing. And then I guess it was the next year, in August of nineteen forty four, she undertook what was probably her most well known, most celebrated mission. And from what I can tell, Chuck, she undertook it on her own accord. She was not ordered to do this. She just was like, I'm going to go do this.
Sounds like a great time for a cliffhanger. Okay, all right, we'll be back with the rest of the story right after this. All right, great cliffhanger, my friend. You really know how to set them.
Up, thanks, sure, you know how to knock them down.
People say our show isn't scripted. That's a great line reading. Actually we're the people that say that. So this was August nineteen forty four, Camar, Is that how it's pronounced? You said?
Why not?
All right? Kahmera and a couple of other French resistance members were captured again by the Gestapo and they were about to be put to death, and guess who steps in to save the day.
I don't know.
Christine Granville. Oh take it away?
Oh okay. So she shows up at this I guess a French prison that they were being interrogated at and we're about to be executed and said, hey, I am the niece of General Bernard Montgomery who's on his way with a whole bunch of allies that are about to overtake this, and you, French collaborators, you're going to pay a dear, dear price if you execute these men right before they get here. They're going to take it out
on you and you're going to hate life. And apparently they said, all right, we're properly scared, but can you sweeten the pod a little bit? And she said, okay, what about two million francs and they said sold. So she handed off the bribe and they took off and left these three really really important French resistance leaders to live. She's saved their lives. And apparently after they left the prison, they were like, I can't believe you just did that, and she said it just kind of hit her finally,
like just how dangerous it was. It hadn't even occurred to her that they might be like, no, we're not, and you're captured now too, and we're going to exit you as well. Because she was just so focused on what she needed to do and going to do it and knowing she could do it, it didn't even occur to her that she was actually putting herself in incredible danger.
Yeah, it was amazing. Apparently, she turned in her report, typed it up, handed it in to the SOE and their reaction was quote good reading. I'm going to make sure that I keep on Christine's side in the future, and another agent said, so am I she frightens me to death. Very nice, Yeah, thank you.
So the Allies won the war spoiler alert, and especially in Europe, i should say, and as a result, Granville was awarded some pretty hefty awards. She actually wanted to remember she's a civilian, a Polish civilian, and yet she was given the honor of Officer of the Order of the British Empire. If you get that medal, you are a man British and at least a lieutenant colonel. She was none of those things, and they still said, you were so amazing on our you know, on our behalf,
we're going to give you that. And she also got another one, the George Medal too.
Or the in Poland they would call it the years.
Here's the medal?
Wait, who is the other yearsy? Did we even find him?
Her second husband, the diplomat to come to Ethiopia was that's right.
That's right, okay, and dad, all right, I just want to make sure we cover that. What was that? The French award? She went to the quad de Deger.
Yes, the Cross of Wars diitches, that's right.
So this all seems like, oh great, this is amazing, I bet you. After the war, the British government really took care of her and saw to it that she, you know, had the best job in government. Not true. They kind of turned their back on her in a lot of ways. She tried to get citizenship and it took her quite a few years to get it all the way until nineteen forty nine. They cut off her financial support. They basically said, well, you know, what kind
of job can she get? A quote? She cannot type, she has no experience whatever for office work and is altogether not a very easy person to employ, which maybe she wasn't the easiest person to employ in those regards, but she was an exceptionally intelligent, crafty, resourceful human and the fact that they couldn't find work for her is shameful.
Yeah, so or wouldn't find work for her, wouldn't. I think that's it because Churchill lost reelection shortly after the war, and he was the protector of the SOE, and especially Granville, who he cited was his favorite spy, which is a big deal. Churchill loved the SOE. He instructed them to set Europe ablaze, was his quote, but with him out of power, they didn't have that cover from on high anymore.
And just like with the Polish Intelligence Service, the professional intelligence people very much resented the amateurs, thinking that they were doing the same work with the same quality as the professionals. So they were. I don't think it was just her specifically, but I think a lot of the SOE was turned out, although I think some actually were kind of broad aboard to be professionals, but she definitely wasn't. No.
So where did she work. She worked as a housekeeper, She worked as a switchboard operator. She worked as a cruise ship waitress. This is what her life was after that, you know, exciting time of war, doing some of the most dangerous things you could imagine, many of which upon our own initiative. And she ends up working as a housekeeper and a switchboard operator and other sort of all her jobs. Eventually she would live in a house run
by the Polish Relief Society. There is another rumor, and this is good stuff for the movie, but the character of vesper Lynde and Casino Royale the Great James Bond novel and films apparently was based on Grandville because she reportedly had an affair with Ian Fleming, the author of the James Bond novels.
Yeah, pretty neat, did you know. I think we talked about it before. But Ian Fleming and Roald Dahl, the guy who created Charlie Chocolate Factory, they were both spies for the Brits in America.
Yeah.
I just find that endlessly fascinating.
Yeah, we should do it episode on this stuff. It's good.
Okay. So Christine Granville actually had reached the point in her forties where she was ready to settle down with Cowerskey and was like, Okay, we're gonna be He's a Kennedy after all, so right where it's gonna start. He was deathly afraid of Wi Fi and she was like, what's wi Fi? And He's like, just wait and see. So she was ready to settle down, started a new normal,
everyday life. And she was visited at that Polish Relief Society hotel or boarding house by a guy that she had either had an affair with or had turned down, who was a coworker on the cruise ship with her. His name was Dennis Muldowney, and he stalked her and approached her in the lobby of that boarding house and stabbed her in the heart and killed her because he was so obsessed with her. He said later that to kill is the final possession, which is an awful sentiment,
and I mean, good God. And he also said that he was still very much in love with her, so he murdered her out of just jealous obsession, like if he couldn't have her, no one could. And that's how Christine Granville, after all the danger she put herself in, after all the services she provided to the allies, the good guys objectively, the good guys in World War Two. She was murdered by a jealous jerk.
Yeah, and in her what sort of early forties, still a young woman, very very sad, yeah, by this crazy stalker. Kowarski, for his part aka Kennedy, lived till nineteen eighty eight and his ashes, at his request, were flown to London to be interred alongside Grandville's. Kuwarski and we mentioned that khmera guy was a good guy. Then three other guys
said who had been close with Granville. They formed the panel to protect the memory of Christine Granville after her death to you know, she had a life full of you know, marital affairs and sexual encounters and things like that, and they didn't want her story to be just sort of scandalized I think after her death and for people to focus in on that kind of thing. So they actually blocked biographies successfully for a while for coming out,
blocked articles from coming out. Eventually, though, articles and biographies would come out that would tell the full, sort of proud story of her life and not in a scandalous way.
Right, And the whole thing kind of like tilted. The world showed that it was ready for to appreciate Christine Granville. When Claire Mully, the historian released the book The Spy Who Loved colon the Secrets and Lives of Christine Granville, that came out in twenty twelve, and it's like the definitive biography on Granville, and it was extremely well received.
And Chuck, you can rest assured that there's a good chance we will be frozen extras in the movie because they are making at least one movie about it.
Yeah, at one point Kate Winslet was attached to something. Would have loved to have seen that, because Kate Winslet is the best. But there's one called a Partisan that supposedly is shooting now with Roman Planski's daughter, Uh Morgane playing Grandville. Yep, who knew. I didn't know I had a daughter.
I didn't know either, but that that adds up French Polish actress. Sure. Yeah, Malcolm McDowell's in it too, And I don't. I can't, I just can't. I can't feel settled when he's on the screen.
Now, he's he's old. Who would he be playing?
Oh maybe Churchill?
M It's got to be Gary Oldman or somebody.
Right, Uh, you know, that's Andy McDowell's father, right, No, No, I swear to God, that's Andy McDowell's father.
Malcolm mcdowells. Yes. I thought she was like from the American South.
She is. She was born and raised in North Carolina. But that is her father.
Wow, I had no idea. Yeah, I mean know Margaret Qualley is his granddaughter.
Then I guess yes, and she's married to Jack Aaron Off.
No, Wade, Andy McDowell's.
Not, Yes, she is, Okay, Then she's Roddy McDowell's daughter. Okay, close, close, both British, same last name. One was the regular, one was the dude from Clock Reforms.
Well, now I feel like I don't have to check you, but now I gotta look up Roddy McDowell.
No, that one, I'm sure of. Look it up.
Are you sure?
Yeah?
We'll wait, all right, Well say something else, like, you know, why don't you read listener mail or something?
Oh? Well, how about this, I'll sit you up for listener mail while you're looking, and you can tell us on the other side of the chime whether I'm right or not.
Okay.
If you want to know more about Christine Granville, you can check out Claire Mully's book The Spy Who Loved And there's plenty of other great stuff on the internet to read about her too. And then look out for me and Chuck in the movie. And since I said look out for me and check in the movie, it's time for listener mail.
All right, I'm gonna call this, uh Roddy McDowell was actually gay and never married?
Good lord? Okay, well, then let's let's reverse this course. Who is Andy McDowell's father.
Well, that's what I was going to say. That would be the sensible thing to do. I do know Margaret Qualley's her daughter.
I know that. No, that's definitely true. She was in Made. Have you seen Made?
You know? I never saw that. It's on the list.
It is really good. Andy McDowell, who I'm not usually a huge fan of as an actress. I don't think she's well used very very much as far as characters go. She really nails it as Margaret Qualley's kind of like ne'er do well mom who's still trying to be in her life. It's just just a really great, kind of gut wrenching movie.
Yeah, and I can also recommend while we're here, the movie Sanctuary. It was out last year with Margaret Qually and who's the guy. I really like him a lot. He was in Girls Christopher Abbott, of course, and it's a sort of a two person movie and it's really really good, highly recommended. And by the way, in case she wondered, any McDowell's dad was a lumber executive from South Carolina.
Named Malcolm McDowell, who is also the actor.
Maryon the Saint Pierre McDowell. Boy, wow, that was a journey.
I've got another movie for you, since we're talking about movies. I got two as a matter of fact. One my niece Mela is in a movie that's out on the big screen called The Hell. Yes, okay, it's called The Hill. It's a super duper Christian movie, like legitimately, like they call out Jesus Christ. But the Preacher's not like set up to be like a demonstration of hypocrisy. He's actually like a preacher. Usually not my genre, but and I probably wouldn't have seen it had my niece up in it.
But it is actually really good. And Dennis Quaid is the father, the main character, and he does an excellent job. And it's just a it's worth seeing. It's pretty uplifting, and Mila just knocks it out of the park as the young version of the main dude's love interest.
Boy.
Mela is just killing yes, and that is so great.
You guys must be so.
Oh yeah, it was so cool to go to the like just a normal movie theater and get popcorn and then see our niece up there on the big screen.
I love it. That is amazing.
The other one was The Black Hole, the Disney one from nineteen seventy nine. I just had an itch to watch it, and man, does it hold up?
You think so?
M hm? Okay, yep, it's even better than I remember it as a kid. All right, Okay, sorry, was it? Chuck?
I'm gonna call this ten year old request. We don't usually read requests, but we like hearing from our young listeners, and this is from Henry. Dear Josh and Chuck. My name is Henry. I'm ten years old. Really love your podcast and I listen to it every day on the way to school. I'm writing in mainly because I think you should make an episode about the psychology where if you paint all the walls of a room black or a different dark color. It makes the said room feel
much smaller. Now. I know I could just read an article about this, but that would just be boring. Plus I'd rather hear it from you, guys. So whatever time of day you're reading this, farewell to you. I would love to see that episode come out. Bye and that is Henry and Henry. I think that would make a great short stuff yeap. How color affects the perception of size. I love it nice.
Thanks a lot, Henry. We appreciate that. We appreciate your charming character as well. Thank you for adding that to the email. It could have been totally boring and straightforward and you didn't do that, so thanks.
That's right, Go Henry.
If you want to be like Henry and have us say go Henry, but with your name instead of Henry, you can send us an email to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.