SYSK Selects: How the Underground Railroad Worked

from house stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and with me as always as Charles W. Chuck Bryant, which makes this stuff You should know the podcast because Chuck and I are the hosts of that hostesses no host yep, Chuck, Yes, how your How are you? I'm great, man? How are you? I'm fine? It's you and I and Matt are guest producer alone in this entire building. Yeah, this it's uh, the Friday before Memorial Day, Friday afternoon even and it's

pretty empty in here, Yes it is. There's lots of echoes that we're gonna have to adjust for and post do we do post anymore? Is this like basically just live to tape. At least we're not getting hateful stairs as we walk through the office. Yeah, it's refreshing, so Chuck. As you know, I grew up in Ohio. I was hoping you had mentioned this. Well, I grew up in Ohio. Your hopes are are fulfilled. Well another reason why, Well, Um, it turns out I recently learned from this article on

how the underground Railroad, how the underground railroad worked. We talked about how this is gonna be problematic. Um that an estimated half of all underground railroad workers. Um, we're from Ohio or lived in Ohio or part of Ohio. I had no idea that, but reading that it makes sense because that was such a part of my um upbringing as a child. Everybody's house that was built in like the nineteenth or eighteenth century had like an oh, this is where they kept the freed slaves in the

underground roildroad. Everybody's house had like a little spot that supposedly was part of the underground road heritage or some real some were um more believable than others, but normally it was like a public building or like a National Historic Register building that like they gave tours to that was part of the underground railroad. But like everybody's house like had like a little spot in the basement where like, yes, conceivably human beings could stand here and and uh, you know,

hide out. But yeah, see I grew up in Georgia. Said that we didn't have those talks. No, And apparently in this article the author points out and I don't know where she got this, but um that there's there's still blemishes on families who were known to have helped slaves on the underground road road in the South still today. I totally I don't know if she's talking about. I thought that was completely out of left field. It was.

I grew up in this state and never heard anybody be like, yeah, that guy that lives down the street their family used to hide slaves. Yeah that's not that's not true. So so um, but you you were familiar with the underground road road before this article. I was. But it's a good time to point out that not nearly enough, because black history is so glossed over in

American schools except in February. Except in February, and it's still even in February that I went through all my schooling with just knowing like there was an underground railroad and Harriet Tubman ran it. That's it. Period. Yeah, never learned about Malcolm X. I think dread Scott may have been mentioned briefly, but yeah, it's very sad. Yeah, and hopefully that's changed some since then. Well for the list

nurse who had similar experiences. Um, we're about a remedy that because we're gonna tell you not only how it worked, we're gonna tell you in so much detail that you could conceivably go start your own right now. That's right, And there are some still around today. Yes. Human trafficking is the new word for um slavery basically um where it usually it's forced into sex work, right, um. And there are groups who are dedicated to like freeing sex

workers from forced labor. They're called Polaris, which is renaming of the North Star. Yeah. Um, and then and others. We should do a podcast on human trafficking. I think we have a good article on that that Molly wrote. If I'm not mistaken. Oh really yeah, okay, you're ready, Yeah, let's do it all right, so chuck um, basically the the origins of the UM Underground Railroad, which was the network by which is skate slaves ran along to freedom, almost always to Canada if they were going north. As

it turns out, UM probably started before the eighteen twenties. UM, but it couldn't have possibly been called the underground road road until after the eighteen twenties because the actual railroad

system wasn't invented until them. Either that or they were like way ahead of their time, right, But it may have had some sort of name, And we know that there were groups of people who were uh formed for the common purpose of aiding escaped slaves to go secure freedom, to get out of the South, or get out of a slave state into protection in a non slave state. Because George Washington complained about it in a letter in seventeen eighty six that he suspected some Quakers that helped

some of his slaves escape. He was probably right on the money, tail, yeah, because Quakers were one of the earliest members of the Underground Railroad, and they were the was trusted because they were so recognizable in everybody. Yet Quakers will help you out. Definitely the most trusted white people for sure. UM. We but we should probably point out, um, the reason everybody went to Canada was because there was a federal law in the US. Right, that's right. What

was it called. It was called the Fugitive Slave Act of seventeen nine, and uh, it was around since sevente but it really got its teeth in eighteen fifty when it's strengthened the fines and basically made um, helping a slave escape a federal crime, and then uh in non slave states as well, and uh pretty much meant if you were caught as a slave, you were going to be put to death and likely tortured in a public place, and maybe even your slave family or friends that you

were with on the plantation were also punished, even though they didn't try to escape. So anyone involved in the and even not being involved but being involved by relationship or something like that, UM, really had a lot to lose from this one person making it to freedom, which really, um is it's just very heartening when you look back on what these people did. They risked a lot. Um

in the eighteen fifties stiffening of the Slave Act. Right, Um, if you armed a slave, which was routinely done because this is dangerous. Um. Then you were subject to execution no matter who you were, white, black, whatever um that was, that was punishable by being executed. So people who were helping escape slaves were putting a lot on the line, right, Yeah, And and one of the miss there's a few miss that even this article kind of uh perpetuates a bit.

But um rarely or not rarely, but more often than not, they were other black people or former slaves or current slaves helping the other slaves on the underground round road. It was not a big happy group of white northern abolitionists risking their life to help out the slaves. They did that some, but it was usually quakers um or you know, like I said before, slaves or former slaves. Okay, so that's one myth. There's a few others. Well, let's

go through this. What what did an escape look like right along the underground railroad during its height in the mid nineteenth century, h what would happen was free black people would send a field agent, what they called the field agent. Um. It was a lot of times a minister or a doctor posing as like a census taker to anybody who could move throughout a community undetected so they would make contact with a current slave who supposedly wanted to escape, and they had to gain their trust,

because this whole thing was about trust. You really had to trust because people would sell out their own own kind to gain favor with with the master sometimes, so sometimes you couldn't even trust your fellow slave, So you really had to gain their trust as the field agent, and then they would eventually, once that trust was gained, arranged for the escape from the plantation to travel to

the first safe house to a conductor. Actually, I'm sorry, they passed along to the conductor who would take you to your first station. Yes, and that was the beginning of the journey, right, And the station was basically somebody's house usually UM, and the head of the household as a station master, and that was somebody who was putting his life in the life of his family's on the line. Feed and house and hide this person for a little while, UM possibly set him up with the disguise, which um

they got fairly um. Yes, yeah, there's there's a story of one in a um apparently with a seminal work on the Underground Railroad, appropriately titled The Underground Railroad, written by Wilburt Sea Bird, right, and he talks about how, um, a black woman was basically made up to look like a wealthy white woman and to complete this disguise, was given a white baby, um too for her journey. Yeah, so people were, you know, fanatic about this. I read

another one, UM, a couple from Savannah. UM. The woman was the daughter of the slave, her slave owner, and her mother was a slave, a house servant ever, um, so she was light skinned, so they had her pose as a frail, aging white man and her husband posed as like a you know, a loyal servant slave UM on their journey all the way from Savannah up to I think Philadelphia or Boston. Um. But yeah, that was kind of harrowing. Apparently they were almost found out a

bunch of times. Yeah. So I can imagine, like just trying to escape through the woods scary enough. Trying to escape disguised in plain sight has to just be nerve racking. Yeah, you know, especially the lady with a white baby, because I imagine that whoever might have found her out would not have been too happy about that at the time. At least along the way if you did maybe encounter a train conductor who found you out, but was willing to keep his mouth shut for money. You needed money.

Most slaves didn't have money because they were not paid. Um. And the this was I guess at the station. The station master might also hook you up with some money that came from what are called stockholders. Um. And stockholders were probably wealthy abolitionists who didn't really want to get their hands dirty. But we're happy to support the cause financially. True, right, yeah, And I didn't get I mean, were they just people who supported the cause basically financially, Yeah, but you know,

obviously in their in their hearts as well. Uh, now I know what you mean. Though they didn't risk, you know, walking people through the woods. No. Abolitionists, despite you know, they're there desire to end slavery, were frequently accused, and rightfully so in a lot of cases of you know, saying, what we we think, slavery is vomitable, but you're freed, and that's great, but go live over there. We still want to just have our very lily white parties and

lives and all that. Um. And there were a lot of abolitions like that. So I would imagine that just giving money two people to use for bribes or for travel or you know, to support these station houses. Probably really you know, hit home. It's the same thing today, like people don't go help like say the homeless, you're resolving your guilt, they give money to, you know, organizations that actually deal with the homeless. I think that this

was very similar to that. I think you're probably right. Uh, runaways, um usually didn't travel alone, although again I read somewhere else on on one of the websites that a lot of times they were alone. Um. But when they weren't, they would have a conductor guide them to the next station, usually about a day away. They didn't want to make it like, you know, a three day journey because it just you know, you you probably don't have tons of food and water, and it's just more dangerous the further

you're going, right, not between station houses. The journey itself to freedom yet last days, weeks, months. Yeah, each each station was about a day away ideally, right, they would follow the north star. Yeah, that's good. That's why that one, um modern hilarious. Yeah, that's why it's called that full circle. Yeah. When the clouds were out, Um, there's the old trick of looking where the moss grows because on tree trunks, moss usually grows on the north side, and you wanted

to be headed north. There were instances where because they made it a very zig zagging route usually you know, they didn't want to make it a straight line, so it made it easier to track, but it also made it easier to get lost as a slave. It did. And actually there's a sidebar towards the end of this talking about quilt patterns, right, and there are codes embedded with the I I found a substantial amount of it. I see, I found stuff saying that was like mythical

that in the songs. Check out um os black history dot com. They have this list, this key of like what all of these different quilt patterns are and what

they meant. Um two slaves who came upon a quilt and one of them was this um kind of zigzagged X. It's called the um the drunken Path, And basically it's saying like going a zigzag pattern because there's guys out, there's slave hunters around, and if you say turned started walking south, they would be less likely to suspect that you were an escape slave if you looked like you were purposefully walking south, because what slave of walks south?

That's where the south is right right that point. But I mean, if it is made up, this guy did a good job of perpetuating it because it's very interesting. Well, even in here it says it's it's one of the well known legends or not. They just don't know because a lot of this stuff and this could the bring that up. A lot we don't know about because the underground railroad was secret, so we don't know about a lot of the places. We don't know a lot of the routes or the people who worked there or who

actually started it. Oh and Josh also I mentioned the moss on the trees. Clear nights were better to see the stars, but traveling in the rain was pretty good too, because fat white plantation owner probably wanted to be inside by the fire when it was raining and not chasing after his slaves. So let's talk about UM the laws. We we mentioned it kind of specifically UM earlier about some of the I guess the punishment that that could

befall anyone helping somebody right, Um. And in the Fugitive Slave Act, UM basically created the first laws that said this an escape slave can be gone and gotten legally right. But there were slave states and there were non slave states, and the non slave states said, well, yeah, that's a great law, and you do whatever you want down in the South, but we're not really going to enforce it,

and when we do, it's going to be very light. Well, in eighteen fifty, this thing got a lot of teeth, um, like you were saying in the fines were were stepped up, the penalties were harsher execution, um was it was a lot more um doable, I guess. And then um, it also became legal for slave hunters to walk into a free state, a non slave state and be like, Hey, that black guy right there, I think he's an escaped slave.

He should come with me to anybody he could legally claim it without having to justify even if they were free men. Yes, um. And apparently there were rumors of like slave traders like luring um, young black kids in free states onto boats and then like taking them off to the deep South. It's like, what are you gonna do? How are you going to find these people? There's no

documentation like this. Um. So basically the North came to really resent this change in the law in eighteen fifty because people who were complacent living in non slave states, suddenly we're kind of having slavery imposed upon them a little more. And then the dread Scott case, like you mentioned earlier, that really sealed the deal and really got abolitionists. UM. I guess their their roles expanded tremendously after that. And then as a result also the underground railroad became much

more organized. Yeah, that is dread Scott v. Sandford, and UH. It was famous because dread Scott, a slave, sued for his freedom for himself and his wife and his two daughters and uh on the grounds that they lived quite a bit of their lives in places like Wisconsin and Minnesota, in these outlying Northwest territories that or northern territories that

had where it was illegal slavery was actually illegal. So he sued on those grounds, and in one of probably the worst Supreme Court decisions in the history of this country, they decided because the panel was full of Southerners. The panel Supreme Court justices were a lot of Southerners, and they ruled that black people were not or people of African descent were not citizens of the United States, free or not they are not citizens. Therefore they cannot sue

for their freedom right. They don't have any rights, so they can be basically captured and taken to Yes, the a life of slavery again. But if it hadn't been for the dread Scott case, Uh, we may never have. Well we may have, but it really sped up the process of the Thirteenth Amendment in the Emancipation Proclamation and hence the Civil War and hence the Civil War. And some of his descendants still live in St. Louis today. Well,

shout out to the Scots of St. Louis. UM and Chuck we said that this this um precipitated the Civil War. The underground railroad helped move it along. The dread Scott case. It's it's basically these things, UM, Northerners actively subverting federal law. UM. And the South economic cloud really ticked the South off the the South imposing its views on slavery on the North through this eighteen fifty strengthening and the dread Scot case. UM,

it really ticked off the North. So this division was was UM, it's very much part of what led up to the Civil War. Yeah, Pennsylvania even thought about ah nullified ring the Fugitive Slave Act. They didn't like it so much, but then they decided, you know, a better way to do this is probably to be subversive and to support things like the underground railroad on the down low, rather than cause some big political snake write a check. Exactly right. Um, So we say that because the Civil Wars.

Whenever you ask a kid, you know what why the Civil War happened? Slavery. I mean, that's a that's a big part of it. But that's why it's not just slavery.

It wasn't like the North was like, slavery is wrong and we're gonna go to war with you over it, or the South was like, we love slavery, We're not part of you any longer, although the latter I've heard recently was um much closer to the point that the South was perfectly happy with succeeding creating its own country and basically creating an economic empire based on free labor, that that took over the entire Caribbean, and that the Southern US. Yeah, I wish I was more of a

civil war. Buff. I'm glad you're not shuck. Really, they're in I wouldn't say obnoxious, but man, do they know a lot about the Civil War and they like correcting people too. Yeah, and we're going to hear from them. So chuck, Um, when you did finally make it out along this this route, um up to the northern the extreme Northern States, the northern part of the extreme Northern States,

and to Canada. Um, it could take days, weeks, months, It could take twenty four hours if you happen to have the money and the gaul to ride a train, or if you live in a border state. Yeah, which apparently is why a lot of slaves never escaped from the Deep South. It was longer ago and they didn't. They wouldn't have taken the underground railroad, which went exclusively north. I believe they would have gone to Florida or to Mexico. Never knew that. So Mexico in eighty nine outlawed slavery

and became active in protecting slaves who escaped to Mexico. Yeah. Native American Indians go figure, we're very empathetic. They were probably like join the club, my man, come on in almost literally chuck so in Florida in Spain said we're issuing a decree here that says, any any slave or native American who leaves an English colony and makes it to Florida is a free florid Ian, a free a

free member of the Spanish crown. Right. All we want from you is that you convert to a Catholic convert to Catholicism and become a member of the military for a prescribed amount of time, right, um. And in return

you're a citizen here. Right. So that's why Florida attracted a bunch of people, and the reason they did it was specifically to attract people from um England, the English territories like Georgia or South Carolina, because they wanted to jump start the economic engine, but they weren't going to do it on slavery. Right. I wonder what impact that has today. I wonder if there are more African American

Catholics in Florida proportionately because of that. Well, one of the impacts that it had that's still around the day are the Seminoles. The Seminoles were a recent tribe that started in about the eighteenth century UM based on displaced Creek Indians who made it to Florida to take Spain up on their offer and escape slaves. And now there's a division in the Seminole tribe between Black Seminoles and Red Seminals, and it's not they don't always get along.

But during this time, the Seminole Indians came up because in a lot of cases, black slave, freed slaves or escaped slaves would come up to an Indian Indian sentiment, lived near it, or be absorbed into it. And that's where the Seminoles came from. That's pretty cool, didn't it. There's really one jerk in this whole thing, and that's that's yeah. Our ancestors chucked. They were white Northerners too. It's not all in the South, white jerk, white Northerners probably,

h Yeah. Anyway, I'm just always stick up for the South. Well, think about it that there were an estimated two thousand to three thousand underground railroad workers. Yeah, there there are a lot more people in the US and the North and the South than that at the time. Buddy. Yeah, that's a good point. Uh. It is interesting though to me that you said Canada, because that was where many

of them ended up. And I never knew that. I never knew that, and it made sense, because why go to Pennsylvania even though they're sympathetic to a certain degree when the Fugitive Slave Act still is hanging over my head and somebody could turn me in for some dough if they wanted to. Yeah, let's just go to Canada where they don't care and they don't have those laws. Plus, I mean, it's not like you're gonna just stop in Detroit. You're gonna be like, oh no, I'm gonna keep moving

to Canada. Eat. So we were saying that there there was some involvement by some people. There was UM separate involvement, disconnected involvement, whatever. But some of the people, some of these abolitionists UM and freed slaves, UM and escaped slaves who have made lives for themselves UM formed in these northern non slave states enclaves of where where an escape slave could feel very free, like Boston, Philadelphia, UM, I

think New York. Um. They formed these things called vigilance committees. Right. Yeah, it's very nice. They provided like some protection for them, uh, tried to get them work, try to give them a place to live, and so you know, it's just sort of like hey, now you're you're safe now and we're gonna help you set up life as an American, Yeah, and get something that everyone in this country should be born with, which is freedom right. And here's a credit

card to enslave you in a different way. That came later, and that touched all races, it did, so, Chuck. There's um one one person who kind of rose above all others as far as the underground Railroad went. And her name was Harriet Tubman. She was, she wasn't It is still referred to as the Moses of her people. Yeah. It is not a cliche to to bring up Harriet Tubman as you know, like of where she's gonna bring it very duban. Course we are, because she was the

Moses of her people. Yea. And she was an escape slave from Maryland and very sadly I went back to get her family and helped them escape. Found her husband had a new wife and he was like, yeah, umu to stay here. Yeah, and she wasn't too happy with that, clearly. So she reportedly books say um kind of hardened her a little bit, which in the end helped her because you sort of needed a bit of a hard heart

to lead people in the Underground Railroad. You didn't need whiners and criers and people that would draw attention and make noise. Yeah. Apparently she would threaten to kill people if they didn't shut up. Yeah, like, quiet down, I'm trying to get you to freedom. Just shut up about it was her was her motto officially, I think. And she was individually probably the most successful uh conductor on

the underground railroad. Right, Yeah, I think uh at least seventy slaves um that she led to freedom to New York and camp personally thirteen journeys and these are long trips. Well think about it. Also, she's an escape slave. She goes back into slave states thirteen times to guide people

out bad. She's a big bad mama. She Uh. She went on to serve as a spy, as a scout, and a nurse for the Union Army and received no military wartime pension for that, even though she was Harriet Tubman and Um went on to sell fruits and vegetables store to door. You're joking, and wrote a book and

lived off profits from her book. She actually made money off of it, which is good the US as a long Yeah, so, Chuck, you want to talk about how many people were let out we we we mentioned Harriet Tubman lad at least seventy personally UM and estimates very wildly as to how many people escaped UM. As we said, the heyday of the underground railroad was eighteen twenties to the eighteen sixties. Say UM. Some some people maintain about

a hundred thousand people escaped, which is that's huge. UM. On the other end, UH, the Journal Black Studies estimates of between eighteen thirty and sixty UM only about two thousand people escaped via underground railroad. The National Park Service settled somewhere in the middle and says, yeah, let's say a thousand per year. But again it's very secretive. People have no idea who was who, whether a house really

was a stop. There are some places that are most decidedly UM parts of the underground road road that are still around to day, like the Dobbin Horse Tavern and Gettysburg, Pennsylvania has movable case that people used to hide in. It was a house at the time. UM. But because of the secrecy, because of the success of it of it, UM, we we have no idea you know, who was a

part of it, who wasn't. And that's pretty neat, I think, But there's the National Park Services really spent a lot of time and effort and money so far um figuring out, you know, where the underground railroad ran and who is a part of it, and what buildings were in to preserve the buildings, and there's a there's actually a bike um trail that you can run I think or something like that along established identified underground railroad routes. Yeah, pretty cool,

you know you. I just wanted to point out when you said the our checkered history, America's checkered history. I still feel England's stank on this. Oh yeah, that was early enough to wear. It wasn't like you know, rednecks from the south this. These are still like English fops doing this stuff. So I blame England, You blame England. I'm trying to figure out when my my line is drawn and when I'm saying this was America because even after the Revolutionary where it was still just people from

England living here. Okay, So England is your fault. Take that in England and it's Canada the big hero to you and this. Yeah, of course, man, you know that's still a territory of the English crown really yeah to you on that one, pal, I don't know what to think. Um, so wait we before we go, we have to mention John Brown. We talked about how like a lot of people were like, here's some money, I'll be a stockholder

in the underground road road and impress my friends. John Brown walked the walk he lived in like freed black colonies. He um, if he didn't do it himself, he oversaw the murder of five unarmed pro slavery um settlers in Kansas, which is up for grabs between slavery and in a non slavery state. Um. And he basically turned into a guerrilla and staged raids on pro slavery settlements and killed lots of people. Um. And then he staged the raid on Harper's ferry. Yeah yeah uh and was eventually caught

and hanged for it. But he was as far as the abolitionists go, he was like, um that he he was, I guess you could say equal to Harriet Tubman as far as in the abolitionist camp where she was in the freed slaves camp, he was hands on and did it. Did you hear the box car guy who who packed himself up in a box and had himself ship to Philadelphia. No, did it work? Yeah, awesome. He had like some biscuits and a little bit of water and some air holes and his I think his nickname is box Car. I

can't remember his full name. But they, you know, opened up the crate in Philadelphia and he climbed out and they were like, congratulations, you're holy cant. So the bravery I mean, not just the slaves themselves, people who helped, I mean the bravery of these people at the time cannot be understated, agreed, because you were getting tortured and killed if you were caught, and all for your freedom.

That's all you were looking for. Pretty heavy stuff. Yes, so, Chuck, if they want to learn more about the underground railroad, they should type in underground railroad in the search bar, how stuff works dot com right, um, and then of course brings up listener mail. And you know, I bet the ladies from stuff you miss in history class have probably done one on this already. And so I would seek that out for another angle, because sometimes we double up,

and it's always good to hear different angles on these things. Yeah, and they're a great choke too, and you can compare it word for word. Eventually, by comparing the transcripts on the blogs, right, they're like they were a lot more factual than Chuck and Josh. All right, Josh, I'm gonna call this critical email from Katie. We don't read a lot of criticisms much, but this was very specific, so I thought we would. Hi, Chuck and Josh. I'm a new listener, but it recently listened to about sixty of

your shows. I am thirty one years old and work as a film producer. You guys have really grown on me slowly. The concept of the show is the best part. I think there are a few things that keeping or keeping you guys from really going big and would like to share my thoughts. First, I think the podcast are a bit slow and have a few too many personal jokes every time Chuck has a personal story to go along with the topic. This is the least entertaining and interesting.

Your personal relationships to the topic are mundane. Sorry, this should be cut. The banter is good. You are clearly smart and witty, and that is enough to keep the listener engaged. Josh, your intros are so boring. Why not mix it up and or cut the small Talk. I fast forward past it every time, and I think your listener mail is the worst part of the podcast. I think you lose at least half, if not more, of your listeners at this part. Save that stuff for the blog.

The podcasts themselves need to be solid and tight. The production value fails in comparison to This American Life or Planet Money. For these reasons, I would highly suggest getting a new producer. Taking pot shots at Jerry, it's just so wrong. You need to make over big time. You need new music in your intros and throughout the shopper apps, sound effects and more. Out of studio commentary. Some of my favorite podcast our Saunas, Hangovers, Cremation, Sherpa's Reincarnation, Mummies,

and Altitude basically go be Radio Lab. I listened to your Guatemala pieces while I was traveling Guatemala last week. Pretty cool in hopes of supplementing my education about the country while traveling there. But you failed miserably. Actually, she says it failed miserable. I get the point, though. Uh. They were my least favorite podcast you guys have done, and I think you genuinely wasted your listeners time with

your personal, pointless stories about your free vacation. I was shocked to learn how small your perspective of the world is, considering how often you both write and research about the world. Your impressions of Guatemala sounded like you've never left the South. Uh. They were naive and not worthy of two hours of my time. On the other hand, it was fantastic to listen how volcanoes work while climbing volcanoes in Antigua. This is what you guys are best at and you need

to stick to this, but it needs to be better. Seriously, you have mastered the podcast medium, but there is so much potential yet to be tapped. And she says taped, I guess she means tapped. I hope you guys continue to make great podcast and that you really up the production value. Thank you, Katie M. P s. I happen to own a house in Turkey and I've spent much time in Turkish bats. You define them incorrectly in your Sono podcast. Who's that Katie? Yes, Katie M. Thank you

Katie with the tips. We appreciate the insight and thanks for listening. You don't know why, but thank you for listening. Right well, we've mastered the medium. Okay, except for like the fifty points. Well, if you have any pointers for us or tips, we want to hear them. We're always open to that kind of thing, So shoot us an email at Stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com, be short at check out our new video podcast, Stuff

from the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow.