SYSK Selects: How Ouija Boards Work

and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, Jerry's kind of here. Uh, and this is Stuff you should Know. Yeah, this is the last podcast, Uh, these two today that we're recording in the infamous murder room. Oh yeah, it's right, yeah, murder room. Yeah, we're moving offices, and what better thing to do than to have a seance, which we're going to conduct after this episode records. Didn't you didn't don't know me about this first? Yeah, we're

having a seance, buddy, I don't know about that. We're gonna get down, We're gonna get down the brass tacks and answer all the unknown questions. Well, you know, I'll tell you what. I will have a seance with you using a Weiji board, because now I know how they work, and I'm not quite as scared of them as I used to be saying after I saw The Exorcist. Yeah, Sai or we I say Wegi. Yeah, I kind of do too, although I think it's probably Wegia right, not

to be confused with the crimes photographer Weig. We're talking about the board. Although yeah, I think some people say we Ja. Yeah. I just think it's interesting. I said Wegi since I was a kid. Yeah, I mean too, But I also say reci cup instead of reesis because Umi does too. You mean sister do Yeah, And I'm like, no, it's Reese's. They're like, no, it's Rec's. Yeah. Well I don't even say Rec's. I'd just say a reci cup. I think they. I think I do too. People in

their quirks, Yeah, foibles, I say foibles. Uh. Yeah. You should hear him sing that potato Potato song everybody, Yeah, which apparently I got snookered on that. By the way. That's an old, an old bit. So I was snookered by an urban legend. What the whole potato Potato song where I say, like, yeah, a friend of mine's friend auditioned with this piece and sang it wrong. You thought it was for real? Yeah, of course I did. I've

never heard that before. It's very funny. Yeah. Had you heard that, um now, because you would have stopped me. I know I have heard it before, but it wasn't too long ago. Was it from my mouth? Maybe? But I didn't think like that it was. It actually happened. I think anyway, we gi su every day, we gi board. Yes, um, and I mentioned exorcists already. You saw that, right, of course A bunch of times enough. Here is a trivia question for you. What is the name of the spirit

Reagan communicates with? I didn't even have to look this up? Uh through her wigi board. Geez, I don't remember Captain Howdy? Shut up? No, do you remember? Now? Captain Howdy was who she's talking with? Who is the devil? I guess that was one of his aliases. I wonder if he has like a devil passport that says Captain Howdy on Devil Satan Lucifer Captain. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's true.

That makes it a little less frightening. So um what was that the early seventies that Exorcist came out, right, I think so okay um and the Wigi board, the one she was playing with, I believe was a Parker Brothers BIGI board was it now has bro um And that was this mass manufactured, mass marketed toy game. But it was actually based on like a real phenomenon that we've talked about here on this show, before the um spiritualism movement of the nineteenth century. The Luigi board first

made its appearance around then. Supposedly they claim providence for this way further back than that, but there's no real evidence that the Ouiji board itself is any older than the mid nineteenth century, and that it's American in origin. Yeah, the actual Wijia brand board is what you're talking about, right right, or talking boards in general, which is another name for like a Wigi board as a talking board. But not all talking boards are Wigi boards, that's right.

So you're saying there's no evidence that they existed before, like in the eight hundreds before that, before that, no, there there people did use divination. There is a pretty good source. A fourth century BC Greek scholar who wrote a history um, who talks about a pair of men who were killed for dividor for using divination. But they used a pendulum and a disc with the alphabet round it to spell out a message. So there were divinations people did use um like style. Yeah, I don't know

if they use the plan chet. But the Luiji board itself, despite being marketed for many years, is something from Egyptian antiquity, is probably something no or that was created no earlier in the mid nineteenth century in the States. Well one is uh. An attorney name Alijaban patented what was called the Wigia Egyptian luck board. Um. And it's important to point out when when these things are marketed, they when you read the fine print, they never claim to be

able to, you know, talk with the spirits. It's like just sort of it's a game, right, it's a game now, And it was once it became mass marketed, they started the Yeah. But in eight one it was part of this larger offshoot of spiritualism. Yeah, and we talked a bit about egypt pology and it sort of all ties in seances were big. You remember, they cracked the hieroglyphic code from the Rosetta stone just a couple of decades before, so Egypt was like this weird place with all sorts

of strange cults and rituals. Yeah, and it's just it's strange to me that something like the occult, even on a minor level, sort of took hold in the United States at one point. Uh. And I don't know how if it was accepted by the masses, but like you know, regular people and noteworthy people would hold seances and try to communicate with their dead relatives, usually through a medium who was usually female. Right, you know there weren't a

lot of dudes doing it. Uh. No, there are a lot of dudes who were involved in it, but the mediums were typically female, and a lot of them used things that were like the Luigi board talking boards. Yeah, like they you mentioned the dial plate, which was a spinning wheel with letters and numbers, and the alphabet board, which was sort of like a wigia board, but um, you just pointed to different letters and waited for a

response from the great beyond. Some had a little pencil that would like actually write things out right, that used the plan chet, which is French for a little plank, which is a little uh, a little board or something maybe like a circular disc on three legs, and then one of the legs for a writing plan chet. Um was basically a hole with a pencil going through it, so that when the plan chet moved using the medium's hands, but the spirit was really in control, the pencil would

write something hopefully. Uh So, back to the Wiji Board, the official game version. Over about seventy years, it changed ownership a few times, eventually landing at Parker Brothers, which

is now has Bro. Like you pointed out right, Ali Jaban the guy who um, he didn't come up with the first Weigi board, but he was the first one to make an improvement on an existing patent and um, the Wiji board, as we understand it, that was his how we see it now, and he actually went off after he sold the rights to it to a guy named um Charles Knard. Uh Elijah Bond went off and created a rival version that had a huge swastika on

It didn't perform so well. Uh no, it did at first, because we're talking seven did you have that association was still like a mystical symbol, but it was made by the Swastika Novelty Company in West Virginia that he founded to produce this rival board, and it's considered his other Luigi board. That's pretty funny, isn't that weird? Yeah? My friend, my friend Jesse Char the other day tweeted something funny

about design. I think it was something likeent of design is trying to make something not look like a swastika or a penis. I thought that was pretty good. Did she make that up or have you heard that? I have not heard of that, alright, so I'm giving credit to Jesse Char, so um, chuck. The point is the Wuiji board took this, this thing that was being used by mediums as part of a very serious spiritualism movement, and said, hey, you don't need um, this crazy old

lady to contact your dead uncle. Now you can buy one and do it in your own home over cocktails exactly. Um. And a lot of people took it like that from the get go. I think some people probably purchased Wiji boards seriously, but I think from from the outset it was a part of a party. It was a conversation starter, something that that you just did socially too for fun, for sure. I think that there was always a large segment of the Ouiji board buying population that just took

it as as entertainment. Yeah, exactly, which it's probably how you should take it. Uh. From Kennard, he had an employee named William Fold nephew L D who Uh, who basically took it over to the point where he even stamped his name inventor on the back of it, even though he wasn't. And he's credited as being sort of the father of the Luigia board because he's the one that really ran with it in a marketing sense and brought it to the masses and uh would do all

the press for it. Um. He claimed that the French and German words for yes, we and yah is where the name comes from, even though that's not true. Well, even before that, Charles Kennard said that, Um, he came up with the name by asking the board itself what it was called. And it's spelled out oh U I j A, And he asked it what it meant, and the board told him it was Egyptian for good luck. So that was the story. And then yeah, I guess Fold was like it means yes and yes, yes and

yes pretty much in French and German. It's pretty good, So like we said, um fold sold it to Parker Brothers, who turned into Hasbro. And now when you buy a Wigi brand wid you board, it's from Hasbro. Yeah. And the article here makes a point to U two call out the Catholics for um basically saying that it could be an evil thing and not to use it. But as a little Baptist boy, we were very much told not to use a Wigi board. I remember specifically, um

my uncle like burning his Wija board. Yeah, did he go out and buy it just so he could burn it? Friday? We got a party going in my house. Yeah, it's pretty funny to look back. When I was a kid, I was like, yes, get rid of that evil thing. Were you there when he burned it? No? I wasn't there, but I heard about it, and that was just good for him. That's cool. Throw throwing candy Land while you're at it, because that game stinks. What was the Shoots

and Ladders? I never played that? I was into? Sorry, remember that one? Yeah? That one made you like hate the other people you played with though, right, didn't couldn't you like get ahead by screwing over your fellow players? That's I think that's why it was called sorry. Yeah. I think like if you landed on someone, you sent him back in the beginning and yeah, yeah, maybe I just played with Jerk soon knows. Maybe so um so chuck.

The Uigi board UM. From the original Bond creation to the one you get today from Parker Brothers, the design of it has changed very little. Yeah, I guess we should describe it. I mean, I assume most people have seen one, although you know I've never used one, have you? Oh? Yeah, when I was younger, i'd totally be into trying it out. It's neat for fun, you know, it's very neat, because I mean, the thing is just moving around the board by itself. All right, So we will describe the board

if you have not seen it. Um. It has the alphabet and two different arcs, has numbers below the alphabets. It has a yes in one corner with I think a moon, and a no in one corner with the sun. And therein lie the answers. My friend. Oh, don't forget the most important part, basically what amounts to the off button. It's goodbye written at the bottom the number. So yeah, it's sort of like a satanic magic eight ball kind of,

except this really works and it's not satanic, right. Um. So the the way that you use um this talking board um, which again, if you're interested in this and you want to see some pretty cool old Buiji boards and the Swastika board as well, UM and another one called the Sphinx board, which I think is the coolest one.

It's from like the forties. Um. There's this awesome online museum called the Museum of Talking Boards, and they have histories of all this, the history of the Buiji board, history of talking boards, UM, just some really great articles and images on there. So go check that out because it's a pretty cool website. UM. But when you're when you're using this, um, well the instructions have stayed the same too, not only the design but the gameplay itself. It's just about the same as it was way back

in the nineteenth century. Right. And when you use this, they say you want to have two or more people, yeah, um, with their fingers lightly resting, just your fingertips lightly resting on the plant chet and we should say the plant chet, um, like the other plant chet that used a pencil to write.

It's just a little um plastic heart shape board. I guess with three small legs, and then a circular um plastic covered disc in the middle, clear plastic disc that you look through, and the disc shows you the letter number or word that the spirit is communicating. That's right. When you look down through the plane chet, that's the letter word in question. That's right. So you sit there, you ask a question aloud. Everyone concentrates. No, no joking

around going on. No, even Fold himself said, you want to make sure that the people whore at the table are taking this seriously or else second to work right? Well, even though it was advertised for mirthmaking, you gotta cut the mirth down when you're actually operating the board. Take the guy who has the lampshade on his head, he's

got to get out of that room. Uh. So, then you ask a question, and then everyone watches, and the plan Chet, as if by magic or Satan's dark powers, moves along in either answers yes or no questions, or spells things out. Um, you want somebody to jot down yeah, sure, the letters or numbers as they are read out, And and in the article it says ideally they spell out words or sin it says they can the players can understand. Um,

like it would. If it's spelled out a nonsense word like wegia, you would probably just say it's it's malfunctioning, or you would say what does that mean, and then it would spell out it's Egyptian for good luck, or German and French free. Yes, I wonder if wegia boards always answer the same when you ask them what wegia means. I don't know, we should I started saying it differently all of a sudden, down Sidewigi. I've just said wegia

a couple of times. Interesting, how do you pronounce the thing that you clean your windshield with that is squiga or a squeegee? Yeah, but that's s q u e g e e eat. There's three No, I'm just kidding. Evidently, it can take up to five minutes for the plan chet to start moving, which I don't know if I would have the patience for that, I know I might start moving it on my own. Oh yeah, you know, well then you would be the life of the party,

especially if you said, like, I'm being contacted by the spirits. Right, if after five minutes you don't get any movement from the plane chet, you want to either ask the question again or ask another question. Um. And there's some there's some tips for using your Wiji board to mat maximum capacity. Um. One of them is concentration. Again they do with the Lambshade needs to go sit in the living room, watch

TV or something while everybody else is doing this. Um, you want to turn down the lights, maybe, burn some candles, burn some in incense, turn off that smartphone and the TV. Maybe. Yeah, and uh, you really want to concentrate. And when you ask questions, you want to ask them slowly, clearly, simple questions. Um. And you want to ask them one at a time and wait for the answer the response before you ask

the next question. Yeah. And they also recommend that you avoid um scary questions because that could lead you down a dark path, my friend, and always above all else in the game by saying goodbye, because if you leave that portal open to the great beyond, the bad people might come in through that portal and find you and kill you. Ask Reagan from the Exorcists, right, things can go pretty badly. So you want to end each session with the plan chet over goodbye and then breathe a

sigh of relief exactly. Um. And apparently if this doesn't work the first time you do it, you shouldn't be frustrated. In fact, the Museum of Talking Boards has a regiment that they prescribe um thirty minutes of practice every day for two weeks, and apparently you'll open your chakras or something and all of a sudden you will be speaking through the Wiji board, or the spirits will be speaking through you go through the Weigi board. Is that before

after the opium regimen that they advise. I think the Museum of Talking Boards is um. They're more historical. They're more interested in the history background of the whole thing. So let's talk about this for a minute. People sit down. They put their fingertips on this thing. The plan chet moves,

I mean moves like we're not making this up. Like if you've never messed with a Wigi board before, like give it a shot with another friend, and like the chances are the things going to just start moving by itself. It's eerie, especially when you're younger. Now see, I've never done it. I explained this to me. What do you mean? I will show you so, um, I get it. But the thing, this, this plan chett is very light plastic. The feet might even have felt on him or something

like that. It's designed to move very easily forward. No, I think original Planchet's headcast um. But you're just basically you're you're being pulled around the table, so you actually want to be in a comfortable position because your fingertips are just sitting on this thing. And then when you ask a question after a while, it'll move. I've never seen one move fast, but it just moves kind of slow. But I mean, there's no question about you're not thinking.

Isn't moving Like it's moving over to a letter and then it's moving over to another letter and then it's selling something out. But you are moving it. No, you're not in your head. Here here's the thing, like, let's get to the science of this. You are in fact moving it and there, but you are not conscious of moving it, which is the awesome part of it. It's this thing called idio motion. Yeah, which is someone pronounce ideo and I didn't know if they were just being

fancy or not. It can go either way ideo idio motion, but the the it is an actual involuntary motion. It's one of the types of involuntary motion of which human beings are capable thanks to our muscles and neurons. Yeah. It was coined by due named William Carpenter in two to explain dawsing rods, which is the same kind of you know thing basically, Yeah, dawsing rods pendulums um idiomotion is where thought proceeds precedes movement, and the other part

of it is that we're unaware of that movement. Yeah, it's movement without owning that basically. So when you apply that to we Ji boards, you have what's called the ideo motor effect, where you your thought is placed in the form of a question to Theuiji board, and then the movement, the unconscious movement. You're not aware that you're moving, UM moves to answer that question. So if you're thinking yes, like,

am I speaking with uh, you know, great uncle Charlie. Yes, and you really want to and you're you're thinking, yeah, man, I hope he's there. So you're unconscious or subconscious? Which is it? I would guess unconscious. I think it's unfashionable to use subconsciousness. UM. It would move it to the yes, but you wouldn't realize. You would think it was just moving and and that that's where the weji board fund comes from chuck like you don't realize you're moving it,

like you you have no sensation of movement. And like you said, this is this idea. Motion is a um, it's it's we've understood it for a while since early eight hundreds. And even Fold himself in one of his patents said, and I think explained that it was moved by unconscious muscular movement of the prayers. And back in the eighteen hundreds, this guy named Anton Chevrel Chevroule chavrell he Um basically proved this using a pendulum on a string. Yeah,

and it's um. You've probably long heard about the the old wives tale. If you want to find out what your baby's gender, you hold um like a ring on a string over the ballet and wait for it to move. And if it moves back and forth, it's a boy. That's circular, it's a girl. Um. And it's the same. Basic thing is is the chevrol pendulum. Basically, it's just ideo motion. In effect, you are unconsciously swinging the string. Yeah,

and whichever way you probably desire exactly. That's what makes it so fascinating, is what you're really seeing is the unconscious telegraphing supposed to of the mother's wishes of what gender she would like, because she's in fact controlling it, but she's her muscles are moving so minutely that she's not aware of the movement. But since the pendulum is on the string, it really kind of really telegrash these very very tiny movements and then inertia takes over and

it really starts going. So it just seems amazing because the hands not moving, but the ring is going crazy. It's going crazy. Uh, this is the same. If you ever heard of facilitated communication, it's pretty controversial. Um, you've probably seen it on the news. It's when basically a caregiver will guide the fingers of someone who's severely disabled over a typewriter, typewriter, a typing machine, over a keyboard to a computer. Uh, to supposedly get answers or communicate. Um.

And it's very controversial. It's art it out in nineteen seventy seven in Australia, this lady named Rosemary Crossley. Um. But the American Psychology Association basically says it's not scientifically valid. These are people that are just what facilitating communication. Yeah, that they're the caregiver is really guiding this conversation and it's really not coming from the person that's disabled. Right.

The thing is is what makes this so tragic and sad is that the caregiver isn't aware that they're actually making these movements. Again, all of this is unconscious. You can't tell you're making this movement. And so since the profoundly handicapped person is moving their hand, the caregiver thinks that it's them. It's the it's the handicapped person. It's not like they're trying to snow somebody exactly. They and they may even really really want this person to communicate

and say these things. Yeah, they're still studying at Syracuse University actually has UM since nineteen ninety two is the FC Institute now it's the Institute on Communication and Inclusion and are still studying it. And you know the controversy as usuals between the skeptics and the believers. Yeah, well that's that's the thing. If you want to see who who believes in the idea motor effect to type that into Google, it's all like skeptics Dictionary, skeptics, skeptic, Like

every entry is skeptic. But if you type in IDEO emotion you get um, you know, peer reviewed scientific literature on that. It's just the IDEO motor effect is basically taking the proven idea emotion and applying it to debunk

things like Wuiji boards. Uh. They did a study in the University of British Columbia just last year and UM, basically they said it's strongest when they are multiple people on the plan chet And they tested this by blindfolding people saying you've got someone else on the board with you, and when in fact there was no one else on the board, the person would still say it was the other person moving it, right. They would say there was no other person, right, And then they say, well, then

it was the spirits moving it. I guess that's funny that no one says it's the spirits moving into That's always the other person who's moving in. That's a pretty um, pretty common trade of any wigiboard game. That you're sitting there going like you're moving it. No, you're moving it. No, I'm really not moving it's that And then uh, with two people working in tandem, you have two sets of

muscles moving unconsciously, but you know, making a movement. Um, you have one person relinquishing responsibility because they think it's the other person, which they think freeze the muscles to move even more strongly because you're saying, it's not me, it's the other person. Um. And if they both have a common goal, then the planchet will move even more

um brisk glee. I guess like if both girls are like, it's gonna move to be R A D, then you know that plan chet's gonna move to those letters in that order. But they're both going to be like, I'm not moving. Uh well, hold on, before we get into any real life stories, you want to do a message break? Yes, okay, and we're back. So should we talk about a couple of these stories? Um uigia are they real? Are they not stories? Sure? The Herds of Kansas City, Yeah, this

is pretty crazy. Herbert Heard killed his wife Nellie, shot her in the back four times. Um, and you would think what a jerk. But what happened was there they were elderly, they were in their seventies. Um. They played with the Wigia board one night and um Nellie claimed that she received a message saying her husband was stepping out on her, so gave like fred dollars to the

other lady emon that's probably like their life savings. Um, And so what happened was Nellie tortured him, tied him to a bed post, whipped him with a knotted rope, burned him with a red hot poker, stabbed a knife into his shins, and forced a confession by holding a gun to his head. And eventually she left the gun on the bedside table there. Herbert got ahold of it and killed her. And UM, can't really blame Herbert. And apparently the courts did not h what else you got

any other ones? Uh? Yeah, there's a m It was called an Italian enclave in El Cerrito, California. The Italian community there apparently experienced a wave of mass hysteria that landed several people in uh an asylum because of Wiji board use. When the town went Wijia crazy. Yeah, one policeman like tore off his clothes and ran into a bank. And um, there's a lot of craziness that happened. It was just massissia, I guess, and the town was like,

you know what, no more Weiji boards. And finally, in British authors sax Rohmer supposedly came up with his villain Dr Fu Manchu when his Wigia board spelled out Chinaman. So um his Wigia board was racist? Yeah, and uh you know he says, that's where it came from. So here's the thing. If you ever want to test whether Wiji boards are the result of idea motion and the players actually moving it or not, go to the good Will and buy one for three dollars and then and

then do this very very simple test. You blindfold the players. You turn the board ninety degrees so that anybody who's memorized the layout of a Weiji board can't cheat it right, and then ask them some questions and you're not going to get any kind of sensible answer. And if you do, then you need to trade carefully because you just unlike the gate to the spirit world, don't forget to tell it goodbye, to steal off that gate. I always remember

put it on goodbye, folks. So do you hear anything else? I got nothing else. I feel like here in my forties, after knowing now that they're not evil tools of Satan, then I would like to try it out sometime on a on a Friday night with good friends. Yeah, we'll play a little cards against Humanity. We'll play some weigia and then risk and risk to wind it all out

with a big bang. Um, invite me over. Okay, so uh, if you want to learn more about weigia, weigi that kind of thing, you can again go check out the Museum of Talking Boards. It's pretty sweet. And also you should read this article on how stuff works dot com. Type O U I j A into the handy search bar and we'll bring up this article. And since I said, UM, search bar in there somewhere, I think it's time for

listener mail, I'm gonna call this crack baby. Jeez. We we got some good response on the old crack episode, which is a good one. I thought, yeah, I thought so too, killing it lately. Hey, guys, just finished listening to the story on crack cocaine. It reminded me of a story of a crack baby. For many years ago, it's around two thousand one. I was doing volunteer work at the local children's hospital in the neonatal I see

you holding babies. Um. I came in one day and one of the nurses told me to go hold this one particular baby. She told me it was a crack baby. That had been crying NonStop for three days and head and left, so I washed up. I went to go hold this baby, held the baby in my arms and just looked at the baby, and the baby was crying, eyes closed, NonStop, just crying, crying, crying, crying. After several minutes, the baby's eyes opened a little bit and then closed again,

would keep crying, tears are flowing the whole time. After several minutes of that, her eyes would remain open longer and longer, but the baby was still crying and the tears were still flowing. After several more minutes, the baby's eyes stayed open, looking at me, crying a little bit less. The baby started crying less and less and less, then after several minutes was smiling, giggling and cooing and making

all those nice happy baby noises. After several more minutes of that, the baby's eyes started to close, and soon she was asleep, sleeping for the first time in three days. It was a wonderful experience that I will remember forever. Jim from Austin, Texas. That's pretty pretty cool. He code the crack baby to sleep soothed. He's a sooth sayer. He's a soothe coore mere to go. Jim. Yeah uh, and now he brings it Christmas presents every year. That

would be a great story. Do it, Jim. Uh. If you have something to tell us that you've done based on something we've talked about, I would say that's that Jim story falls under that umbrella, wouldn't you. Yeah, we want to hear about it. Basically, just let us have it on Twitter at s y s K. Podcast on Facebook dot com slash Stuff you Should Know, or you can send us an email to stuff podcast at how stuff Works dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a

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